Tamara Zidansek - Balance
WTA player Tamara Zidansek jumped onto our screens during the 2021 French Open, when as an unseeded player she made it through to the semi-finals at Roland Garros.
Since then, the Slovenian has reached a career high of 22 WTA and this week lost in a 3 set battle to World Number 2 Ons Jabeur at the Australian Open.
CTC host Dan Kiernan caught up with Tamara just before she started pre-season training last month to chat about her tennis career so far including..
- How she thinks she deals with losses too well.
- Dealing with the emotions of playing in a Grand Slam compared to other tournaments.
- How she didn´t play on a hard court until she was 15-years-old.
- The impact periods have on womens tennis and her thoughts on Wimbledon allowing women to wear dark underwear from 2023.
And so much more. Another episode not to be missed!
Read more in the shownotes.
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Starting in September 2023, we´re offering a university student the chance to spend their placement year working on the Control the Controllables Podcast here in Spain.
Find out more about the role and how to apply here. Or you an email the team at ctc.podcast@sototennis.com.
DISCLAIMER: Please note we use a transcription service, so there may be some errors in the following transcription of this episode. If you can, please refer to the audio for exact quotations.
Daniel Kiernan 00:09
Welcome to Episode 184 of Control the Controllables. And I hope you're well wherever you are in the world. And I bet you're glued to that TV as we get to the closing end of the Australian Open. And I'm disappointed my ego is very disappointed today as my Dark Horse Sebastien Korda, and I picked in our preview last week, went out at the quarterfinal stage to Khachanov. And then Pegula, she was a shoo in, I had her she dropped a team games all the way to the quarterfinals. And she has also left the event to the great champion Azarenka earlier on today. So it's going to be a fun enter the tournament, the men's event is going to be difficult to see anyone pass Novak Djokovic. And it's also going to be difficult to see anyone win the hearts of the fans around the world like Andy Murray did in week one, an absolute warrior. Lots and lots to talk about on that, including actually three of the semi finalists weren't allowed to play at Wimbledon last year, you know, as we see, as we see them move into the semifinals of the event. So let's see what happens over the next couple of days. We actually do go away on holiday tomorrow. So that review will be coming to you a little bit later than normal. So be patient and look out for that. And whilst I've got your attention before we move into our fantastic guests today, I also want to let you all know a little bit about an opportunity we have here at the podcast Control the Controllables. And it's something we've done the last few years at SotoTennis Academy is we've opened up placement student opportunities to come spend a year at the Academy in the various departments. And I can't tell you how well it's gone. You know, it's worked incredibly well, for the student coming in, you know, the experience that they gain, the contacts, the networks, the skills, and the experience, the life experience that they get. And we then get a hard working student who is willing to put the put the work in to help the academy and we are going to open up an opportunity for somebody to come and spend a year with us Control the Controllables starting in September of 2023 applications have opened. We will put the details in the podcast notes. But I promise you if you have an interest in getting into podcasting, if you want to experience living in Spain and spending time with an enthusiastic hardworking, brilliant team, then this is something you don't want to give him this. No more of that because I have to move into what we're really here for today. And that is the amazing the the brilliant, the humble, young woman that is Tamara Zidanšek. Tamara came onto our screens back in 2021. And she made a big run to the semi finals in Roland Garros. She's someone that we know well. Cole Maes, our performance director at Sato Tennis Academy has been coaching her for the last year and a half and Mike Digby, one of the coaches at the Academy. And also one of our guests on the show has been spending some weeks with her as well. Tamara has been as high as 22 in the world, her ranking has dropped a little bit over the last few months, which is normal after you have a big run to the semi finals of a slab but we have no doubt it will get back up there. But more than that she's an absolute delight to listen to. She gives amazing insight. She's smart. She's got great opinion to give. So sit back and enjoy Tamara Zidanšek . So Tamara Zidanšek big welcome to control the controllables How you doing?
Tamara Zidanšek 04:18
Hey, I'm doing good. I'm doing good.
Daniel Kiernan 04:21
It's great to have you on Tamara. And as as I was just saying they're off line. You haven't given yourself much break you know, I know that you were you in South America a few days ago. You you start preseason and a couple of days and I guess that's the reality of tennis that many people don't see.
Tamara Zidanšek 04:41
Yeah, it's been a wild couple of months let's say. I also did take vacation in between but that I had to travel again for that. But you know, that is the way this end of the year turned out. Like for example last year was different. So every year is the And so it was I liked it. I was up for it. So why not?
Daniel Kiernan 05:04
Do you feel ready to go again? Do you feel like you've managed to get your freshness back? Or does it feel a little bit like phwoah I've got to go again. How are you feeling?
Tamara Zidanšek 05:14
No, actually, I'm, I'm motivated to do it all over again, new seasons coming up and season I'm. I'm ready to go into the preseason.
Daniel Kiernan 05:26
Good. Well, I know, I know, Carl has lots in mind for you. So you better be getting a good night's sleep after this to prepare. But I want to get into your professional career shortly. But as with most people that come on the podcast, I always think that it's, it's nice for people to understand the journey into tennis. You know, I think it's a sport that so many of us love. It's a sport that gives so many of us so much. So when you go back to to the very beginning, because my understanding is in the country that you're from Slovenia, it's not necessarily tennis is not necessarily the number one sport and winter sports was was a big part of your life as well.
Tamara Zidanšek 06:08
Yeah, I mean, well, maybe professional tennis is not big, but recreational tennis, a lot of people play. I would say maybe basketball is big. Yeah. Luka Doncic, but yeah, like you said, winter sports are very popular here. A lot of good athletes, Alpine skiers, ski jumpers. I hope I'm not forgetting anyone. And yeah, so. And I, myself started with skiing, given I live where I used to live was 20 minutes away from a ski resort. So that was my first choice. You know. So I started with skiing when I was, I think about three or four years old, actually. Very, very young. And then I went into snowboarding. Which I also competed in a little bit on a national level, like, until I was like 10 years old. And then I moved into tennis.
Daniel Kiernan 07:11
So did the tennis, the tennis start after that, or did it start alongside that
Tamara Zidanšek 07:16
It started alongside that basically this like this ski school, they had summer camps. Something was similar. And they had tennis. Yeah. Okay. And so that is where I started. I also played with my dad a little bit, but my tennis lessons started with this ski, ski summer camp.
Daniel Kiernan 07:42
So this is this is why you move so well on the clay courts. You know, you're used to this movement on the snow.
Tamara Zidanšek 07:48
Yeah. And also, I think the first time I stepped on a hard court was when I was about 16. Really 15 and a half. Yeah. To have a proper training session. I was preparing for junior US Open.
Daniel Kiernan 08:07
No way. So so in the winter, you are you playing on indoor clay courts, as well?
Tamara Zidanšek 08:13
Yeah, we played on indoor play corps, they put up a tent, the bubble, bubble. And yeah, that's where we practice. It was super cool.
Daniel Kiernan 08:23
So you so you would you would be the opposite of British tennis players? Certainly, certainly my generation, you know, because we, I remember, we would go to play in the European events under 14 under sixteens. And we were like walking on the clay saying, what is this? The second that we got moved to one and a half to two meters to our right on the left. We were done. You know, like, you can almost see the other players laughing at us. So
Tamara Zidanšek 08:54
that was my experience on the hardcourt. It took me I'm like about 3, 4 years to start feeling comfortable with the movements on hardcourt. My body was not used to it like it was screaming at me that cuz of the impact is so different. But then you it's just a matter of how how used to it you are, you know, I think at least that way it was for me,
Daniel Kiernan 09:22
Because for the listeners that there's and this is listened to in many countries, many, many tennis people that are listening. For them a tennis court is a tennis court that at club level to a degree you know, it's it. So tell us what are the big differences between moving on a clay court and moving on a hard court?
Tamara Zidanšek 09:44
Um, well for me, it's just the sliding you know. On a clay court, you're able to slide on a hard core you need to be physically stronger to be able to Stop and push from the corner. The impact of you, you bring a lot of speed into one corner and the impact of that stopping is so much harder on your muscles on your legs on your, like ankles, knees, I feel like I mean I for example, I I started having my, my problems, problems with injuries when I went to hard court a little bit more. Yeah, cuz it was just nothing special more of inflammation stuff, you know, just because of the impacts. I felt heavier. When I finished practice on a hard court compared to clay court is just I felt lighter.
Daniel Kiernan 10:46
And what about grass?
Tamara Zidanšek 10:47
Grass is another story that is it's super, it's super like, soft, which I like, but it stops you even more than the hardcore on a hardcore, you're able to slip a little bit. If you can, I can. But grass is another story and you need to be even stronger. That's very tough, very specific
Daniel Kiernan 11:15
Glutes, the glutes burn after the first couple of sessions on grass. Nobody can get away with that. It's completely different. Now because I the first time I'd seen you was when I was coaching Palla advisory and she played in you've guys played in Hungary. And I remember thinking, oh my go, can you?
Tamara Zidanšek 11:38
Can you remember this the name of the city? It's like a super long name
Daniel Kiernan 11:46
With an h maybe?
Tamara Zidanšek 11:47
It's like that yes
Daniel Kiernan 11:51
It's a long, long, long name and, and lots of good players. I remember costume was there. Done. Olga Daniel de vich was there. But But I remember that not much just thinking I'd never seen someone move like you did on the clear. You know, I remember thinking, God, you can't, you can't get you off balance. You looked so strong. So you know, in position for everything, you know, and I think it's really interesting then to get the background into that, you know, how, how long it does, it does take for people to become so familiar. And in terms of your childhood, Tamara, you had a good childhood, you know, good upbringing, and who was some of the most influential people that you had during that period?
Tamara Zidanšek 12:40
Yeah, I, I consider my childhood to be pretty good. I'm really happy when I think back. Honestly, I'm happy that I was one of the last generations to grow up without a phone. Looking at it now. We went out and played like soccer, we were on the swings running around this town, it was luckily safe, where I lived. So we are able to do that and stuff. You know, so you just get a different upbringing to what kids these days do. Which I'm very happy about and yeah, just my whole family, honestly. Now in the past two, three years, I've I've seen how how much they how much of an impact they have, how much I miss them how much I missed, how much I miss home and like their relationships, you know, it's not that we have don't have relationships now. But it's I just don't get to see them, you know. So they all had a big impact on me, mom, dad, brother, grandmas, everyone,
Daniel Kiernan 13:50
And how old and there's some parents picking up their ears right now. Because, you know, parenting is is a challenge. You know, I'm a parent of three. And and it does feel at times, like there's no light at the end of the tunnel. When When are these kids going to appreciate everything that I do for them? You know, and I think that's what what most parents do you think so? Give give the parents a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel? How How old were you when you started to really appreciate them and realize how lucky you were?
Tamara Zidanšek 14:22
Well, no, I had a sense of that. Even though maybe my actions didn't show. But I guess I'm 25 now almost, I guess like I said two years ago three years ago is when I kind of well, I went from this girl to a woman and kind of moved away from home. So it's like when you see you know like when you What is it like when you can have something you know? Something like that
Daniel Kiernan 14:52
The grass is always greener.
Tamara Zidanšek 14:53
Yeah, So once you don't have something you see how much you miss it or, for example, Cool.
Daniel Kiernan 15:01
So there's so I still I still have a while to it, maybe listening, thinking, thinking that thinking that they don't. And at what age as well, Tamara, you know you you are 24 years old now, you know, you Grand Slam semifinalist, 18 months ago. So had some good success early, you know, in a sport that is a little bit more ageing now, you know as for some of us someone 22, 23 years old to have that success. At what age was it that you knew that tennis was the route that you wanted to go and you wanted to really pursue this as a career?
Tamara Zidanšek 15:42
I was when I was just finishing primary school going into high school. So yeah, that was I was what about 14, we decided that I'm going to try this professionally. So I went into this special school program, while my my high school allowed me to not be in class and do exams, like, half half a semester exam or something like that. And yeah, so I was not present in high school for classes, but I got it. Not online, because I went to the school to do the exams and everything. But so that was and I moved away from home only 30 minutes away to the city where I practice. And, and yeah, I spent six, seven years of my life there. Yeah.
Daniel Kiernan 16:41
And in terms of, I always think, I think a lot about the two words, confidence and belief. And for me, I think they're slightly different, I think, I think, you know, being confident is, is potentially a momentary thing that, you know, people can have confidence in certain moments. Whereas our belief is something that's a bit more stable, that's, that's in there, you know, and you can, you can lack confidence in a moment, but you can have belief and I go back to, to my playing days, which were absolutely nothing like yours Tamara. But I always always strongly believed I was a doubles player. I always but even though I won some singles, tournaments, probably deep down, I never quite believed it. You know, and, and even to even to this day, and not that I'm gonna be making a comeback. I still kind of carry that belief in my doubles that not so much in the not so much in the singles. Did you have that belief when you were young? Is it something that I'm sure all of us have doubts and fears, but it was it kind of really strong that you like, you're gonna get there, you just know you are, or has your career come as a bit of a surprise to you.
Tamara Zidanšek 17:57
I did have that sense of belief. Given the type of person that I am, like, I want this certainty and the safety I wouldn't go into this lifestyle if I didn't have that belief. So yeah, I felt it. I don't know. I sense that I can do it. So
Daniel Kiernan 18:20
Where did that come from?
Tamara Zidanšek 18:23
I don't know, honestly. Because at that time, I didn't. I didn't even watch tennis yet on TV. Not Not that much. So I would be like, Oh, I can play like her. I can play like her. No, I just, I just loved sport in general. I did a lot of sports. And I just honestly, I don't even know where that came from. But I just have a lot of fun in any sport. And tennis was maybe just something that I had a little bit more fun that.
Daniel Kiernan 18:57
Yeah. It's it's, I find it fascinating, you know, to hear that mindset. And what about in terms of as you were doing it, and you were going along the journey and playing the juniors and I know you played some junior grand slams, I noticed you didn't play Junior Wimbledon. I don't believe you avoided the grass. But, but what was it that obvious? The obvious thing is you want results and you want success and you want to win. But in let's say that 16, 17,18 age group, what was it you wanted to get out of tennis? And now age 24, 25. Has that changed?
Tamara Zidanšek 19:43
Um It didn't change. There is. I know what I can do. I know where I can get to. Yep. It's obviously at the end like you said, it's It is all resolved phase. But for me, it's more like, personal fulfillment of my potential that I feel I can get to. Yep. So I'm gonna start my tennis career when I know I got that, you know, when that's gonna be I don't know, but so far things in my life, I mean, we all have ups and downs, but I feel like I've been fulfilling my personal potential in that moment. So I still feel like there's some steps to grow. So that was my goal from day one, that was that feeling that I'm I was chasing and that I'm still chasing that.
Daniel Kiernan 20:48
And when we talk about the chase, the chase of have any fun, you know, it can be sometimes when we when we get there, it can be like, Oh, not now. Now what? Or the other thing that can happen, and I think this happens with a lot of athletes is, is when that plane Korea then stops. It's then ah, ha how? I've not thought about this before, you know, this is I'm now in this position. So, you know, you're you're a very intelligent, young woman. You know, I know that you study. And I'd love to hear a bit about that. Because I think that's something for me. I think that's, I love that it's something I've advised a lot of players over the years to have, you know, a bit of a balance in your world. Do you have that same chase to have the success and ambitions after your playing career as well? Or does does the goal come to a bit of an end when we talk about your tennis playing?
Tamara Zidanšek 21:50
When we talk about my tennis playing well, I would definitely like to be involved in in tennis somehow. Maybe not directly on court, as to coaching or whatever, but somewhere in in the background. By but I have definitely thought about my love after I have to say I have a really good personal life luckily. So for me if tennis ends today I know I'm gonna be okay, you know, I'm, I have things that I'm interested in a lot of things, and I can see myself doing a lot of things. So that is also why I chose to do the studies, I'm very interested in psychology. And just to have open doors, you know, for whatever comes, I'm not 100% Sure, what is that one thing that I want to do, but I am interested in a lot of things and I'm definitely gonna explore something after.
Daniel Kiernan 22:54
Great and that and you seem to me like someone who's got your head screwed on with that. And I promise you, I'm not wishing away your career tomorrow, your tennis, you've got a long time and lots more to achieve than that. But I think having that outlook is really important, you know, and having, you know, just a bit of an understanding that I talked about this, like it life's a continuum, it just continues, you know, we continue trying to get better. And when people put sort of definite ends to something it can cause it can cause us problems a little bit.
Tamara Zidanšek 23:26
Yeah, no, I mean, I on tour, and now in like, I'm gonna say 10 years of my life playing tournaments. And growing up, you see, and, like, I've had a lot of talks with people around me. You see how some players and some coaches are invested only in tennis, tennis means everything, then you have others who have a bigger view of, of life, like, okay, tennis is just a part of life, you know, let's create an environment that you feel good in and and make a life outside. And I'm not saying that either one is right or wrong. It's maybe in a way you can get better results when you're off. Again, that's just my thoughts. Like you can get better results when you're only focused on tennis, but then I think Ashleigh Barty was a good example of that. That's not true. You know. I don't know her personally, but I feel like she has her personal life sorted out and tennis was a big part of her life, but not the most important one. And yet, she was the world number one, you know, so I am kind of leaning towards her perspective. I just I've always liked that, you know, tennis is only one part of your life,
Daniel Kiernan 24:55
But it's how you. For me it's how you measure success. So, so success comes in many different forms. You know, and, and I often again, use the example of, and I hope I'm not speaking out of turns talking about Jennifer Capriati, but Jennifer Capriati, who won for in Georgia and age 16, or whatever it was. And then we saw pictures age 23. And she's having big difficulties and struggles in her life. And she she's not happy. You know, and I think we have to keep that perspective. Because it can't just be it's not, it's not good enough to just win a tennis tournament, that's not going to fulfill someone for 70 years. You know, so having those other success measures. So what is success for you?
Tamara Zidanšek 25:43
Yeah, that's a good question. Success for me is I like to feel the confidence, like I like to be sure, so just to have the people around me that, you know, are gonna be there, no matter what happens. That's basically my, my family, my friends, my fiancee, it's just knowing that, like I said, if something happens to me, and I don't get to play tennis tomorrow, they're gonna love me. Just the same as they did, I go and lose all of the matches, they're gonna love me the same, I go and win, all of the matches are gonna love me the same. That's, that, for me is success in life, you know,
Daniel Kiernan 26:36
Very good. I was actually in Turin, for the World Tour Finals, helping helping a couple of the guys in the doubles. And you get a bit of an insight at some of these events, and especially a quite an intense event like that, because you've got so few tennis players there. It's only it's only the men, and there's only eight or 9, 10 reserves, and then the doubles guys. And it was really interesting to me with Novak Djokovic, actually, because he is won his match. And this happened on a couple of occasions. He finished he won his match. He'd done his job. You know, that's what he was there. I mean, he went away with 4.7 million euros from the week. So he certainly did his job. But I happen to not that I was trying to eavesdrop. But I was on the table next to him a couple of times. And I'm not going into the details of what it was. But he was clear. He was clearly having business meetings, you know, and it was like, That job's done. I've warmed up, I've played my match, I've won my match. I've taken care of my body, you know, the family's gone back to the hotel, I've now got a couple of business meetings that I'm going to set up and you can, you could really, you could see how, even though I'm sure he's got a good few years left on the on the tour, is he's already in that mindset of, I'm not just a tennis player. You know, tennis is one of the things I do, but running businesses and whatever it might be, is another element. You know, we've seen it with Serena for many years. And I guess you're along that journey and putting yourself in a really privileged position where your tennis playing is giving you this platform, you know, where you're making a living doing what you love, but at the same time, it is giving you a platform to then be able to open up other doors and you know, I'm sure as your career goes on, there'll be plenty of time to be able to use that in a positive light as well.
Tamara Zidanšek 28:40
Yeah, honestly, when you that's in front of me, like you said that he had this feeling as though you were gonna say that he was with his family.
Daniel Kiernan 28:48
Yeah, he was I mean, I mean, he was at times of course, and, you know, I know some of them but yeah,
Tamara Zidanšek 28:55
But that really surprised me like that's obviously these guys are on another level with their popularity and being famous and having a lot of doors open for them because of the platform that they've built for tennis you know, Novak Djokovic, Rafa, Roger and I guess there's just something that they I feel like to them, it's almost like not not an obligation but you know, they've been playing tennis for so long. They're I know we're all going to be sad like we are now that Roger Federer is out of tennis and when Rafa leaves and Novak leaves, to them, it's almost like an obviously they're doing it for themselves still, but they're also doing it for a lot of people and for the tennis world. You know, it's they have a lot of pressure on their hands and I can't see them just cutting ties with tennis after their career, you know, they're going to be involved in the sport for the rest of their life.
Daniel Kiernan 30:06
I think it's the it's iconic, isn't it? And if you think about even I mean who that Who the hell am I to call him Novak but I'm calling them Novak Roger Rafa Serena wet once you and knowing them by first name. And that's the that's kind of how the whole world talks about them, then I think we know that they are the global icons in it, it must be must be a very challenging way to live. You know, they've obviously because like you say, it's not no longer just doing it for themselves. It's doing it, doing it for the whole world. Maybe in 510 years, we're going to be just you'll just be Tamara. And I won't have to ask you any more how to pronounce your surname. So that's that. But if we move into your your professional playing career, and I know it's, it's relatively early still, you know, you're you're certainly not over by any stretch of the imagination. What is your highlight? You know, is it the obvious one of Roland Garros 2021? Or is there some other highlights that also jump out?
Tamara Zidanšek 31:17
Um, yeah, actually, there's two highlights for me that one or three, maybe one's the obvious one, then winning a tournament and then one is kind of a hidden one is the Australian Open this year, where I was my first time moving into the third round of a Grand Slam on a hard court. That was, I felt like that was one of the best studies that I played so far.
Daniel Kiernan 31:47
Yeah. And you entered as well. Thanks. It was it was hard. I remember watching a couple of a couple of those matches you know, and and when we talked about the obvious one Roland Garros, semi finalist, 2021 tell us tell us about that.
Tamara Zidanšek 32:05
Honestly, it's still everyone at the time was asking me can you actually believe what's happening? I was like, no, maybe give me a little bit more time. But I still can't believe that that happened. You know, once you're in that situation, you're just going with the flow. I was playing matches. I was feeling good. It was also a weird year still with no spectator, not full amount of spectators. So I have to say I was a bit sad that until like a real Grand Slam. Yep. But yeah, obviously, I mean, going into the last. Last matches of a Grand Slam is a big thing for me, because I always always felt like, Okay, this is a Grand Slam. Now I have to do something special, you know, like the pressure just stretches just because it's a Grand Slam. It's hard to deal with that emotions of like playing a match in a 250 first round. Or playing a match in Grand Slam where you can be with the same opponent, but since the stakes are higher, you know,
Daniel Kiernan 33:18
Well Dasha Dasha Savile? I spoke to Dasha, maybe three weeks ago, on the podcast, I saw her post. Yeah, exactly. And she posted about that very topic. She and she does. For the listeners, she does speak about this very topic in the podcast as well. And it's, it is a fascinating topic. Because yeah, you go, you're going along, you're your business in your life, and you're doing these things, and then all of a sudden, four times a year, everyone's everything's magnified to just the nth degree. So tell us about that a little bit.
Tamara Zidanšek 33:55
Yeah, I mean, I struggled a lot with that, not just going to Grand Slams I, I went from a $10,000 tournament to a 15,000. And I was like, I was telling my coaches, I don't think I can do this. It's this this too much there. And then I ended up playing the finals. And it was the same going to 25k. And then it was the same going to 60 going to WTA it's like I mean, it's the same players, you know. So yeah, Grand Slams four times a year, big stage. A lot of spotlight on the players on the matches. It's just for me, it took time to get used to that. And that's just said some players are used to the spotlight, the show the the crowd the noise, and I just wasn't like peace and quiet. So it just took maybe two, two years more than it should have is
Daniel Kiernan 34:56
Did that work in your favor? That that was acquired to grow? unslung?
Tamara Zidanšek 35:03
I don't think so no. Because I was in the zone. I didn't really think about it. You know, there's still cameras, millions of people watching around the world. So I don't think so no
Daniel Kiernan 35:25
And in terms of now, what then happens because you go from being this young tennis player who is going along doing well, you know, and for people in the industry, I mean the admiration I have for any tennis player that gets to any reasonable even though even get into into Grand Slam qualifying is just off the charts because I know everything that has gone in for years and years and dedication and sacrifice, you know, but for anybody else, names not necessarily out there to then become a Grand Slam semifinalist, especially in your home country. How did how did life change? And how did the perception coming towards you change?
Tamara Zidanšek 36:15
Well, obviously, Slovenia is a very small country. So when something big is happening in sport, everyone knows it. And I was home for the, I'd say when the guys won the European Basketball Championship. We were all watching. This thing's like watching winter sports. We're all in behind the TV watching. You know, it was in the news talking the next day about it. And I didn't know that this was happening when I was playing. And I couldn't, I didn't really, you know, it didn't get to me. I didn't. I didn't know. So when I got home, I was invited to the President. So that was the deal. Then all of these people came to meet me at the airport. I was very special. So I live now two hours away from where I lived. When I was younger, I was driving back home, I stopped at a gas station, I get out of the car. And there's people recognizing me, you know, now, a lot more people recognize me. Obviously, it's died down. But still, that's just I did get this sense of wow, people really do watch tennis people do watch sports because I knew before but I never felt it in my own skin. When now i i get it, you know? And yeah, it's just it's a special feeling. You know?
Daniel Kiernan 37:57
And for someone who, like you said you like the quiet life is is a special feeling. Yes. But it was it? Did it ever get to the point where it was, I don't want everyone to know who I am.
Tamara Zidanšek 38:14
Yes, and no. I mean, obviously, we all work for this recognition and success in your own field. So that was good. But at the end, yeah, I do. Not. I I struggle with it. Like with the attention. Obviously, everyone likes a little bit of attention, but like this recognition, and but I deal with it pretty well. Let's see.
Daniel Kiernan 38:41
My next my next bit tomorrow. I had Kasatkina on the show or maybe 18 months ago, and also Dalma Galfi, quite recently. And and both of them said a very similar thing. And what they said was they their ranking rose quite quickly, you know, and Dalma when she was just coming out of juniors went up to I think 120 in the world. And Dasha went from, you know, quite early, I think she went too close to being top 10. And both of them said they didn't feel ready to be that ranking. And not that they didn't believe that they could be not that they you know, aren't going to settle into that. But I guess when you have a standout result like semifinals of Roland Garros, the ranking does shoot quite quite high up. Is that something that you've experienced that maybe you felt you weren't equipped to be 22 in the world at that at that time? And if so, how have you dealt with that?
Tamara Zidanšek 39:51
Yeah, I mean, it's weird because I did feel equipped based on my tennis knowledge to be there, but I certainly did not feel like I belong there yet. It's tough because at the end of the day, we all practice like crazy, I'm gonna say 95% of the girls boys do put in their best efforts, of course, we have good and bad that day. So to be able to be on the top of your game all the time, is very, very challenging mentally, you know, and it's easy to get to where I was, like, say, I was 22nd, it's easy to get there, but it's easy, easy compared to staying there, you know, I think getting there is the first bit and then staying there. And having that consistency on the high level is the hard part. And then once you settle in and you experience that, then anything can happen, you know, even if you don't necessarily not believe it, but even if you don't see, see it happening in the next in, like in the near future, you're going you're playing you're, you're there, you're consistent, you know, girls go up and down. So it's gonna, there's gonna come a time where you're gonna, when it's gonna happen something big if you're there, so you just have to be there.
Daniel Kiernan 41:30
Just for those listening, I'm for myself, because people say this across sports, you know, you hear it a lot across sports, that it's one thing to get there. But it's harder to stay there. You know, it's quite a, it's quite a common thing that said, Can you give us a bit more? A bit more on that? Like, why, what why? Why is it you know, because it's bloody hard to get there. So So what becomes even harder?
Tamara Zidanšek 41:55
For me? I think it's easy to be the underdog, right? And then once you you're not the underdog, more the expectations rise? And I think that's what No, not, I'm not people, I myself do the same mistakes still mistake by my standards, is that you think, Okay, so I've done that, okay. And also, now, this is just a normal thing. But when actually in reality, you're still doing something very, very good. You know, it's not normal to do that every day. So it's appreciating what you do, you know, not taking it for granted. Because then then it's not going to mean anything, I think. And then the expectations, obviously rise from the people around from yourself, you just expect more and more and more. And this becomes normal. So you need to still appreciate the little things that you do good. So it's easier said than done. Trust me, I get it in, in theory I get it practically is very hard. But that's that's it? You know, I think, I think that the best and greatest things are the simplest ones.
Daniel Kiernan 43:12
No, very, it's a great thing to share. Over over this kind of pointless, not a series, I guess it's over 180 podcasts that can't be called a series. But it's, it's unbelievable how much I've learned, you know, speaking to just amazing people like yourself in the tennis world. And the certain things that just jumped to mind. And I guess like any knowledge information, you ended up taking them on as your own. You know, that's, that's how the world works. And, you know, you add that to your philosophy and your philosophies grow. You know, it doesn't, I wouldn't say my philosophies have changed, but they've just grown and evolved. And it was something that eager, eager to be on Tech's sports psychologist Derya when she was on she, she talked about having high standards, low expectations. And I completely love it in because expectations, I think kill us, you know, and it's, and it's how do we shift that into saying, Okay, well, I am changing that into a standard. It's about me setting the standards, demanding standards day in day out in terms of what I'm putting into it. And for me, how I do that, and I bring that into my philosophy is is a standard is a controllable, you know, control the controllables an expectation is an uncontrollable, you know, it's it's just kind of there but it's it's not something that we can control. But like you said, it's it is easier said than done. You know, and it's it is real and it is a real thing and I would like to move you into 2022 and get your reflections because it's been a challenging year for you. You know, the one one there is that expectation That's defending, defending something, you know whether it's defending points defending a position, having a bit of a target on your back, because you're the girl that made semis at Roland Garros, you've had COVID. Twice. You know, you've had, you've had disruptions along the way, you know, again, us in the industry, we know how important momentum is in tennis, and it's quite can be hard to get at times, you know, to get the matches under our belt. So there's lots that's going on, you've got engaged, congratulations in 2022. But give us give us your reflections on the last 12 months.
Tamara Zidanšek 45:40
It's been a learning process. I honestly, I don't want to just forget about this year, because it's a lot of things have happened. Like, over the past 10 years of my life. I've always had consistency. Always same people around me. And already last year, but mostly this year, everything changed, like, my team is completely new, let's say most of the people in my team are new. And I, I'm just not used to that, you know, so it was a big thing for me, I maybe didn't even realize it. Now looking back at the season, I'll see that the situations were new for me. And also, I was learning how to handle them. And yeah, you're speaking about momentum, I did have a really good momentum coming out of the Australian Open. And then getting COVID, which was not nice. The first one I, I took me about three, four months to recover from that, physically, I was not able to practice really, just I just wasn't then team members in my team, after those four months of recovery started changing, you know, the dynamics started to change. So that was them, I was able to practice, but then there was this. So a lot of things at once piled up, which made me not be focused in tennis, you know, also, then there was a Grand Slam coming up, I had to defend the points. And when you're, when you know that you're not calm and prepared for something, it just, it's not possible in this sport anymore at this high level. So then my ranking dropped, and then I got an another COVID. So I'd say it was a lot of things. But I did learn, I was put into new situations. And I'm choosing to look at that. From this, you know, I like that quote when it said like, if you want to improve step out of your comfort zone, you know, so I was put into a lot of different situations, I gained a lot of knowledge, different viewpoints. Now, I want to go back to the consistency, which I know that I need. And that's what next year is going to be about for me getting that consistency back.
Daniel Kiernan 48:29
And in terms of the changes do you think that happened? Because people around you changed? Because now you were you were different. You were a semifinalist of a Grand Slam. So it and I guess that's sometimes the danger of of success. You know, because it brings it brings other things there's it's a bit more lucrative. There's a bit more money involved. There's a bit more like you've talked about attention. You've become you've become somebody you're not little old you anymore kind of plodding along on your journey going through the progressions. Would you put the changes down to people around you changing on the back of Roland Garros?
Tamara Zidanšek 49:17
Yes, it's obviously we're not I mean, the player gets put into these situations. And it's not just the player who can handle it or who should handle the situation. Also the team around you need to step up and be able to mentally digest what just happened and need to react properly to that and I feel like people didn't do that. And like you said, there's a lot of higher stakes, financially, mostly. Psychologically, just being out there, you know, with a target on your back. And then there's this greed right? Word for more results like this more, more, more and more. Yeah, but like, listen, slow down, I, you know, I, I needed for me I needed the space, I needed people to listen to me look next year, and that was 2021 at the end of 2021, I was trying to explain, listen, next year's coming up is coming up, I know that I shouldn't think about defending and whatever, we should be focused in improving. But I am thinking, you know, my man, this goes there. It's I couldn't I couldn't help it, you know? Of course, yeah. And they didn't listen, you know. So that was one thing that I didn't like I was, you know, a lot of I'm not gonna say a lot of but some people on tour who, who I've noticed, not that I worked with them, but don't like to listen, they just not saying that. Their view is the best view and the only view you know, maybe it can work for some players because they need that. But for me, I needed someone to listen in a moment, and then met that didn't happen.
Daniel Kiernan 51:22
And that that skill of awareness. You know, I I talk a lot to players about this, that kind of preempt. And I actually encourage players to preempt the things that are concerning them. Because, because if they're, if they're not preempted, and they're not brought out into the open, they then internalize and they formulate negativity and in a very challenging situation. Whereas if you can preempt, and I, I actually only ever won one professional singles tournament. As a professional, it was a futures event. And I remember that week. I preempted so many negative things at night. Like I hardly slept, but I was like, pre empting losing my serve in the first game. And you know, what happens if it does that? And I've not lost a tiebreaker yet. And if we go to a tiebreaker, you know, what if I lose the first couple of points of a tiebreaker? But what it did was, and this is again, at my relatively crappy level, what it did was, when it came to those moments, I felt I'd been there. I felt that okay, well, I've been there, and I can now handle it. If, if that gets brushed under the carpet, as with any emotion, you know, it turns into a monster. And, and that's what maybe it sounds like happened.
Tamara Zidanšek 52:46
Yeah, no, I completely agree. You know, we do this. I mean, it can work also with visualizing positive things, you know, like being on the court playing Grand Slam first round, I'd say, being in that tough moment, where you have to play a firewall, third set, 30 all that point. And go and when that point, you know, visualize even, and you're gonna be in that situation, and it's gonna be the same, you're gonna feel like you've been there, it's, I completely understand them. Yeah. Just that at the end of the day, just about, maybe that situation in my life was just about letting it out, you know, just talking about it, discussing it, and then you can make a plan. So that was that, yeah, just talking about the situation and about the feelings that I was feeling.
Daniel Kiernan 53:44
So a similar a similar topic tomorrow, my, in my opinion, losing that kills people, you know, like losing people, when people can't handle the losses when the losses are just so devastating and just hurts so bad. That, you know, we've all seen it with tennis players, it's the head, like, they don't talk for two or three days. And it's, you know, it's like, when that happens eventually, for me, it's just too much. And yet we're in a losing sport. You know, we're in a sport where we're losing all the time. You know, if you have a good year, you lose pretty much every week. You know, if you win a match, you lose 45,47, 48% of the points. You know, like, if you serve well, you serve 65% And you miss 35% of your first serves, you know, it's a losing sport. So, so the ability to handle losses is massively important. It seems to me like you're you're a well balanced, individual, you know, you've got your family life, you've got a life, you've got your studies. So how when it comes to losses, are you quite good at finding their perspective and separating it and certainly separating it as I often think tennis players say self worth as a person is linked sometimes to a win and loss. Are you able to make that separation?
Tamara Zidanšek 55:07
I am too good at it, I think I think I should. More. It depends, it does affect me, obviously, I'm not happy when I lose that I'm very good at shifting perspective to just that other life. But I, I have been struggling but very good at hiding it with, with the losses and tennis results reflecting your self worth, I think that's a pretty big issue in tennis world. Or even in sports, I think. And in the past two years, I've given more intention to that. And more awareness to that and discovering life more, let's say, through that, it's helped me a lot to just be aware of that. To think about the tennis doesn't define us. I know, sport doesn't define us. It's just, it's very hard to separate that, you know, give your life it's your life. 24/7 you think of that, devote everything to it? It's gonna hurt when you don't succeed, obviously. But yeah, you got to learn to deal with that, and to end, having that second life help so that, you know, not Second Life. First life, let's say, Yeah, personal life that helps with the self, self worth and us, for sure.
Daniel Kiernan 56:45
So if you're because there is there's, there's, I had it as a player, now that I'm a bit of an old man, I am able to have that perspective. But I wish I had that perspective. When I was playing. I went through bad moments, and I thought I was just the worst person in the world. You know, I really did. You know, and, and I now, I know, there was a really defining moment for me, actually. And the defining moment came for me, when the players in my era, in my kind of time that I that I was playing, that I almost looked up to who were having slightly better results than me, they were getting pick for Davis Cup ahead of me, they were, you know, and I didn't understand it, I felt I was working harder than them. And I then set up the academy a few years after I stopped playing. And one of those players got in touch with me, and asked me for a job. And actually, because of the values and the way that this person lived their life, I turned them down. And but it was a really eye opening moment for me because I was still very young, was still early 30s. And I was like, all of this time in my teenage years and early 20s I'd given myself such a hard time for not being ranked higher than certain players are not doing, you know, only playing Grand Slams because of a wildcard or losing second round or, you know, whatever it may be. And, and actually going back to that life is a continuum. The fact that I was doing the right things, and I was trying to live life, right. And I was trying to give my very best to everything that I did. I was trying to be respectful to people that I was around is then what got me in a position to be able to have a bit more success after the playing career and put me into a position and it was it was just one of those kinds of moments that, that I wish I could get across to youngsters. You know, when I look at the juniors and I see them just like heartbreak, you know, they think they've let the world down because they've lost a tennis match. So so what would your message be to you speak directly? Imagine there's a there's a 13, 14 year old listening to this, what's the what's the what's the message,
Tamara Zidanšek 59:06
There is not enough time to put in, Well, my message would be that, first of all, to remember why you're playing is because you're having fun, probably not go out there have fun. Do your best. That's the only thing you can do. And if the result is not what you like, that's okay. You know, tomorrow, you have another opportunity. Tomorrow, you're gonna go out and have fun again. It's a never ending story. And if you just if it comes from the heart, if you're doing everything that you can and you're doing it with joy, then again, it's that mentality of being be very consistent, it's gonna, it's gonna come, you know, but if you're doing it for fun, no matter what's happening, you're gonna have fun, you're gonna enjoy it. Yeah. And also, I just My message would be to get that find that kid in you, too, obviously, that might not be there. So kids 13,14 But let's go 15, 16, 17 When things are getting harder, when you're starting to become a professional, you're playing at a higher level, more, more stakes, more pressure from the outside world, this find that inner kid with you in you know, because I've heard from a lot of psychologists and a lot of doctors and everything that the kids are very outgoing, very, you know, fearless. So if you find that, maybe you're gonna be fine.
Daniel Kiernan 1:00:56
It's such a lovely message, and I'm going to clip that message off, and I'm going to send it to you as well. Thank you. Because, you know, as has, as we go through our life, where we need to remember these things as well. And, you know, when you're having your moments, and I think I said it to you when you were at the academy, you know, when Iga spoke in our circle, and, you know, you were in our circle, and you experienced that. She gave a very, very similar message, you know, and it was, she was the defending Roland Garros champion at that time. So we I kind of, I saw her her the height of her stress, you know, she was she was, she won at age 19. And she was going back to defend. And there was a lot of stressy moments in those 10 days, you know, there was a lot of there was a lot of emotion. You know, she I luckily got to know her quite well in those 10 days, and she was really quite open, how she was feeling. And when she spoke to the academy and spoke to the kids in the inner circle, she she said those very similar words that this week's helped me remember why I play tennis. You know, I've seen you kids running around with smiles on your face, it's it's really helped me remember the real reason that I play tennis now. We tried to take the credit, I think she would love and love in the quarter final the next week. But she didn't quite defend the defend it. But but that that message is it is a really key message for us all. So thanks for sharing tomorrow. My last my last little topic before we go to the quickfire round, and it's a big topic, because the topic is tennis. And I guess you know, we've talked your career, I like to ask players because you're, I guess the product is tennis. And when you come outside of the bubble a little bit, you do realize it is a product, you know, and in terms of, you know, you guys are the players that are creating the entertainment, but there's a whole ecosystem around that, you know, and and there's, you know, it's battling against the Netflix world that is now you know, every the instant gratification, the there's now other Racquet Sports pickleball there's Padel Tennis, there's, you know, there's all sorts now, from your perspective and from your, your year where you're where you're standing, you know, where do you see tennis sitting currently?
Tamara Zidanšek 1:03:41
Very high up. I think that it is a very popular sport. I know other sports are getting popular as well, but it's been there for a long time. And it's grown in its popularity. I think that also the WTA and ATP and ITF are trying to I'm not sure if that's accurate, but I'm pretty sure that they're trying to expand it and do better for the players for the make it more accessible. And yeah, just the better the professionals get, the more it's gonna get developed in each country. That means more kids are gonna go play it, you know. And I think it's a very, very beautiful sport for me, the best one. And I think it's, it's higher in the charts, world charts on this board.
Daniel Kiernan 1:04:49
But if we take if we take a WTA 250 Or you just played the one two fives out in South America, ultimately that money Money talks. So money, you know, in terms of any any business product, there has to be there has to be a demand, you know, demand for TV rights, the demand for ticket sales, the demand for all of these things at that level, what's the average crowd size? Would you say if a first round second round quarterfinal matches?
Tamara Zidanšek 1:05:25
Yeah, looking from that perspective, sorry, maybe I was just going basically, based on sports and the heart of the sport. But looking on the on from that perspective, it's, most of the majority of the attention obviously goes to the bigger tournaments. And the 250s and 120, fives and IETF slower and tournaments might not get the best recognition from the series that they're being played in, you know, because all the focus, again, is on entertainment businesses focused on the bigger events. So I, I'm not the best, would not be the best advertising marketing salesperson. So I don't know anything about that. That isn't, but that there can be a lot still done on making the smaller events more popular. There are exceptions, obviously, they're there, in where when the tournaments are being played, or the country clubs, for example, I was just in Chile, in Kalina, it's close to Santiago be the training was played at a beautiful country club, the stadium was full. They love the sport was beautiful. You know, so it depends. But generally, the focus is on the bigger events, and there could be more focused on the smaller events. Again, I'm not sure how hard that is to advertise. But yeah, just looking from a player's perspective. There could be more crowds.
Daniel Kiernan 1:05:45
And what about a quality in tennis? You know, we were finally living in a world where there's been a light shined on equality in workplaces, in, in life in general. You know, from from my perspective, I think tennis seems to have done a better job than most sports, you know, in terms of, you know, there's still a lot that can be done without a shadow of a doubt. But certainly, you know, I use the example a lot if you if we think of, you know, the top 20 sports women of the last 20 years, you probably mentioned 15 tennis players, you know, because the profile, certainly at the high level, but again, for someone that's in it, how do you feel a equality specifically in tennis is Is it is it getting to where it needs to be? Do you see the right actions been taken?
Tamara Zidanšek 1:08:04
Tennis is getting faster. Like it's becoming a very fast and athletic sport over the past like for the last five years, were standing closer to the line taking the bar ball earlier hitting it harder. Obviously the technology is developed with it has grown with it, the strings directed everything is making that possible, but it's it's becoming an very athletic sport like I was I read the Andrew Agassi biography A while back, and he was playing I think it was Roland Garros quarters or something. And he was going to McDonald's every day. I'm like, yeah, that wouldn't work anymore. You know, a lot of things like this, like how agile you are, how you take care of your nutrition, how, how fit, you are just physically, then it's tennis and what you can do with the ball. So it's, it's developing very fast and, and like you said, there's it's good that there's still room for for improvements in the sport.
Daniel Kiernan 1:09:16
But do you as a woman playing tennis? Do you feel valued? Do you feel that the women's game the women's tour is is valued the way that it should be on equal par with the men's tour?
Tamara Zidanšek 1:09:33
Um, well, the reality is that men are gonna get more viewers right?
Daniel Kiernan 1:09:43
Not always, not always. If
Tamara Zidanšek 1:09:45
Not always, yeah,
Daniel Kiernan 1:09:47
I was in America. I was at American University 98 to 2002 and it was at the height of the Williams sisters of Justine Henin Kim Clijsters. You know that peer And certainly in America, the most watched match in the US Open was was always the women's, you know, same if we get an Emma Raducanu last year in the in the US Open, I believe that much was watch globally by more people than the jock of each Medvedev match. So, no, so, without a doubt. And I think, as an industry, we need to keep pushing that and, you know, one of my one of my favorite quotes I've seen this year is, it was actually Coco Gauff during the US Open, she said, I saw somebody that looked like me in Serena, that and that was that was why I started to play the sport, you know, and, you know, if you can see it, you can be it, you know, and I was getting, you know, I was getting everybody on the screen showing showing the wonderful sport and that's that also I guess we shine the light on that but also shining a light on mental health within the sport as well. You are the first woman that I've had on on since Wimbledon, changed the rule, you know, that no longer to women have to wear white shorts, under underneath their, their dresses, you know, many, many women were talking about the anxiety of their periods, you know, that real real challenge that they go through? That's sometimes a bit of a, an unseen, you know, you're watching on TV, you're not thinking of these bits, but the fact that we're there, we're starting to, to really look at look at people as human beings who have have these mental health issues and have these things to deal with. What was what was your thoughts when that was announced?
Tamara Zidanšek 1:10:19
So I'm gonna say yes, and then I think it is valued. And I think it's good because also now obviously, men's is also mixing a little bit with the younger generation, but with women is interesting, you know, because there's anyone can win a tournament, so you're going into the tournament, thinking, Okay, this is going to be interesting. And I think there's a lot of great players who are actually playing a very, very interesting game, even in women's tennis, who know a lot about tennis, and the sports intelligence, you know, that are intelligent, sport wise, know, where to put the ball. And I, I know, you require a little bit more knowledge, and then to see that, you know, not just like, my grandma wouldn't see it. But it's from my perspective, that's really good to watch to see that there's players in the top 10, who will have an interesting tennis, very fascinating. Yeah, I think that's very important, the mental health and just because, I mean, I'm the luckiest girl, I can say I've had my period, and Wimbledon two out of three times that week, but I normally feel good with that I don't have any problems. So but it is important because it's, it takes honestly, two weeks out of out of the month, where you are going to be up and down, and then to worry about this having to wear whites. And that's just one element that can be taken out that doesn't need to stress you. And that's really good that I did that. I know, it's a tradition. And it's hard to break the tradition. But I think that was a very good move.
Daniel Kiernan 1:13:45
But it even I think, Tamara, opens up and normalizes this conversation. You know, you know, which, which I think is, you know, I've worked with with quite a few girls, women or over over the years. And it's a very normal conversation. It's a very normal part of and an important topic, you know, if you're when you're when you're working with someone, like you say, you know, different people will react differently during during their periods before their periods. Is it from a mental standpoint, is it from how their body is, is it? You know, I know many players that have experienced that they get so tired that they can't lift the same weights in the gym, you know, all of these, yet it was a bit of a taboo topic, you know, or has been a bit of a taboo topic topic over the years. So that must be a positive as well.
Tamara Zidanšek 1:14:34
Yeah, um, to me, it was never a taboo topic, because I mean, it's just part of nature, you know. But yeah, I mean, again, like we said, we need to speak about things to process our feelings, our emotions, so it's good that it's out there is going to help some people feel better about this situation. And then it's done its job, you know?
Daniel Kiernan 1:15:03
Absolutely. And as you as you move in to 2023, I can't believe we're talking about 2023. I mean, that is oh my goodness, to celebrate the millennium, just like I felt like that's when you know that we get it. I'm getting old. But, you know, are you a goal setter? Are you someone that likes to have outcome goals in place? And then you process performance goals towards that? What standards you're looking to reach in 2023?
Tamara Zidanšek 1:15:34
I am a goal setter, but not necessarily for I can happen between there as well. Right. But yeah, I'm looking for the consistency getting back that consistent work consistent. People around me that is gonna I hope, I believe that is gonna give me that sense of calmness and security. And, and yeah. Committing to my actions, to my commitment and being able to follow through with my thoughts. I got it into action.
Daniel Kiernan 1:16:15
Very good. Well, as as you know, Tamara, you are whether you like it or not, you're one of us right now. You know, you've Carl Maes as your coach. I know you recently had Mike Digby, with you in South America. So we we are following you every single step of the way. You know, we've we've we've full support at the academy and, and also at the podcast. We've loved having you on. I've loved having having the chat.
Tamara Zidanšek 1:16:39
Yeah, it was really nice chat.
Daniel Kiernan 1:16:41
It's been great to have you but are you ready before you go? quick fire round. Now this can be quick if you want it to be quick.
Tamara Zidanšek 1:16:48
Okay, let's let's go.
Daniel Kiernan 1:16:50
Roger or refer Serena or Venus.
Tamara Zidanšek 1:16:56
Venus.
Daniel Kiernan 1:16:58
Forehand or backhand
Tamara Zidanšek 1:17:00
Forehand
Daniel Kiernan 1:17:01
Serve our return.
Tamara Zidanšek 1:17:03
Serve
Daniel Kiernan 1:17:05
Doubles or singles?
Tamara Zidanšek 1:17:06
Singles?
Daniel Kiernan 1:17:07
Your favorite Grand Slam?
Tamara Zidanšek 1:17:10
Australian Open?
Daniel Kiernan 1:17:12
What's one rule change you would make in tennis?
Tamara Zidanšek 1:17:16
I would allow for the let's call on the serve to be played.
Daniel Kiernan 1:17:21
Should there be a medical timeout or not?
Tamara Zidanšek 1:17:27
Yes.
Daniel Kiernan 1:17:29
Do you ever have you ever played it? Have you ever pretended that you're injured to get a bit of time?
Tamara Zidanšek 1:17:34
No.
Daniel Kiernan 1:17:36
But some people do?
Tamara Zidanšek 1:17:37
Yeah, I don't like that. But there's no there's no making a way around it. You know, you say no, there shouldn't be a medical timeout. But then if someone needs it really needs, then what if something happens during the match?
Daniel Kiernan 1:17:55
Okay, we disagree on that one. What does control the controllables mean to you?
Tamara Zidanšek 1:18:07
It means to control what you can control. So what do you think you can control your Do you feel like you can Okay, so I know I can I can just focus on the on doing the thing, not, Not on the outcome
Daniel Kiernan 1:18:23
Very good. The next question, I know the answer because it's net chords are not. Change. And who before you answer this? You are you are the person who passes on the baton to the name that you say. Yeah, it's your responsibility to get them on the podcast. So be careful who you say, you know, we had somebody said Donald Trump the other day and I was like, well are you get are you gonna get Donald Trump if you got his number? Who should our next guest be on Control the Controllables
Tamara Zidanšek 1:19:01
Oh my God. Now you're putting out on the spot. I can see that process.
Daniel Kiernan 1:19:09
We need more women tennis players on this podcast.
Tamara Zidanšek 1:19:12
You need more women's tennis. Can you get Ashleigh Barty?
Daniel Kiernan 1:19:16
Well, this is the thing, can you?
Tamara Zidanšek 1:19:19
so I should get one player. It's your it's I think, I think dude right now would be a good one. Okay, yes. Well, I think I can I can ask her. We would we would love to
Daniel Kiernan 1:19:34
So if you I'm going to I'm going to send you a message if not today over the next few days for you to pass. Maybe we look at the start of 2023 to get her on as well. It was great during the pandemic because none of you could leave the hotels. Excuse. Now, all of the players are saying sorry, I can't I'm busy tonight. I Give everyone was locked into the hotels. Tamara you've been a star. Thank you so much. Thank you, and have a great preseason. Thank you.
Tamara Zidanšek 1:20:08
Thank you. Thanks. Bye.
Daniel Kiernan 1:20:10
And a big thank you to you, Tamara as well, because that was that was a great conversation. I thoroughly enjoyed our time we could have spoken for longer. And yeah, just I think for me, Vicki, it's, it's, you speak to these players, you see them on TV, you know that you see them as professional tennis players, which they are and just to get them and just see how someone who's so novel, you know, family loving, you know, intelligent, reads, studies, and actually is a person not just not just a robot tennis player that hits tennis balls, and she was lovely, wasn't she?
Victoria Kiernan 1:20:51
Oh, she's lovely. And she was lovely when she came to the academy. Very very sweet with everyone. Yeah, like you say just very normal. very unassuming. No ego at all. Yeah, just a really sweet girl and like, say very well rounded. We speak to so many tennis players and it is very just like one track tennis, tennis tennis. But yes, she seems completely the opposite. In fact, she said herself, didn't she when you asked her about dealing with losses that she probably copes with them a little bit too well. Her self worth isn't based on whether she's winning or losing in tennis.
Daniel Kiernan 1:21:25
But, I guess too well, too well, for what is the question that always comes into my head on that because it's, I find this a fascinating subject, actually. Because too well, to maybe be a serial winner. You know, I think I think we all know the way that the minds of top top athletes or top top business people in any field, almost have this almost a bit of a twisted mind in some ways. And like I was listening to a podcast the other day actually with Jamie Carragher. And he was talking about at the very height of his football career. He hated it. And he was talking about Steven Gerrard, you're John Terry's, I think if you then go into tennis, you look at a lot of the top tennis players. You know, Serena Williams, I think is a great example. It never looks like there's that much joy. It's it seems like it's, it's quite painful and all consuming. It just takes it takes over your whole world, which isn't great for your mental health. So so when you get tomorrow, who is is a normal person, you know, who happens to be exceptional at tennis, and is working incredibly hard. What do you want? What's the trade off? Do you want to have that mind of someone that maybe has a small chance to go on and be the cereal winner at the top of the game, but is unhappy in life? Or do you want to have the player who is maybe lacking a little bit of that, but has a really nice balance, happy life? Good, you know, good, healthy mind, you know, good, healthy life that's going to continue over the next 30, 40 years. I think it's a really interesting battle to have. And it kind of begs the question, and I've had lots of discussions on that, you know, do you have to be a bit of a dickhead to be at the very top of your field?
Victoria Kiernan 1:23:29
And I guess it depends on how comfortable you are with being a dickhead as well.
Daniel Kiernan 1:23:34
Why did you look at me when you said that?
Victoria Kiernan 1:23:37
Some people are totally fine. And they're, they're happy like the that what makes them happy? What Andy Murray said at the end of interview, of course, was the first round match or second round match. He said, You won't believe it by looking at me on the call. But that's actually when I'm at my happiest. I'm also not saying he's a dickhead either. But I guess everyone is different. And everyone has different points of what makes them happy. And it's finding a balance in your own life, your own career in tennis, about what that is, and Tamara seems like whatever happens on the tennis court, she is going to be happy.
Daniel Kiernan 1:24:21
And does that not also prolong her career potentially, as well? You know, I think I think like a Freddie Nielsen, who we have on our preview and review, you know, he used to have such a good outlook, such a great outlook on on the sport and, you know, it was about the process. It was about going out there, putting himself out there. I remember when he won Wimbledon. I saw him in Cardiff like three months later, and he was there for the indoor 15k And I was like Freddie what you're doing. He said I was in I was in India and Wales last week. And he said it was so boring. I played like one match and then didn't play another one for three days. You know, as I play a match every day singles and doubles, I get up early, I train train all in the morning. And then that's what that's kind of what made him happy the pursuit of excellence. And, and because of that, he ended up playing. I mean, he only retired a year ago age 38, 39, maybe. And age 30 He won Wimbledon. You know, and how many people that age 25, 26, 27 can't handle it anymore. You know, so, you know,
Victoria Kiernan 1:25:31
It's not even about the wins losses is it's about the whole lifestyle, the traveling the weeks that you're away from your home from your family, I think you if you're comfortable with the travelling and you're happy with that, I think it's very different than someone who's really, really missing, you know, family events and missing being away from their friends and their home life.
Daniel Kiernan 1:25:53
Absolutely success Measures. You know, what, we've talked a lot about that on the podcast, what is a success measure, you know, is success just winning? You know, and I don't think it is certainly in my, my opinions or my philosophy. So I think having someone like Tamara come and talk like that we had Lloyd Glasspool two or three weeks ago talking about so he doesn't really like tennis, you know, and he's looking at it in a completely different lens and scope. You know, it would be great to get an Andy Murray, a Serena Williams, you know, the serial winners out there to see what makes their mind tick as well. But yeah
Victoria Kiernan 1:26:29
Kyrgios talked about it on his episode on breakpoint on the Netflix documentary, he said that he can't travel many weeks, he only plays a few tournaments a year in comparison to a lot of the others. Because of his mental health. He doesn't like all the traveling. So you know, like I said, everyone's different, and it's finding out, and it's getting that balance right for you.
Daniel Kiernan 1:26:51
And having the self awareness for you. Self awareness is massive. But no great, great topic or one that we can certainly dig into a little bit more of what else Vicki? There's obviously lots of us to take from these episodes. But anything else that jumped out for you
Victoria Kiernan 1:27:06
Just simply don't have clicked on a hard court until she was 15. That was amazing. Like you said, it's the other way round for us. Although I actually are thinking I don't think I played on clay till probably about the same age, but I played on shale. You remember, shale? Was like a poor man's clay court. But But yeah, I couldn't believe what she was saying about having to get used to the movement of it. That's something that I'd never really thought about before. I would have thought you know, jumping onto hard court is quite easy, but she found it really tricky adjusting to the movement on the court.
Daniel Kiernan 1:27:37
Yeah, absolutely. That was that was fascinating. And like you say, the complete opposite of what we're used to in the UK, you know, have stick us on the hard court stick us on an indoor court and we feel very much at home but put us on a clay court or hey, it's like Bambi on ice. You know, and that so that that was interesting and how she it's that filters into my opinion, actually, the I get asked this question a lot. Is it better to be brought up on clay or to be brought up on hard? No, my answer is absolutely. It's better to be brought up on both, you know, and having the ability to play on quick courts, slow courts, Slippy courts, you know, high grass fed into that. It everywhere, everywhere. You know, I really do. I think clear quartz for me is the best, the best assistant coach, as we got from we got from the podcast with Bruno Argudo and Quan boughs. When they were talking about it, I think I was Esteban Carril, it said that about clay courts being the best assistant coach, but then it's a hard court game, these these players now are playing such an aggressive brand of tennis, you have to be able to control time and space, take the ball early, you have to be able to adapt your technique. So I love it. I remember in the summer when we took our boy Matthew to a tournament, and he played his first round on artificial clay outdoor clay court, which was basically an artificial grass court with a bit of sand on it. He then played his second round on a, an American green clay, heavy heavy balls wet. The next round, He then played a really quick slick Astro courts. Then he played on an ice indoor court. And then he played the final on the on the clay court again. And I loved it because he had to one from a mental standpoint, he had to adapt and be resilient to the challenges. And two from then a technical standpoint, he had to adapt these technique. It's no good just having one conformed technique. You have to be able to adjust, find your contact points, be able to use different skills, and then tactically as well, you know, movement of court positions, how you're hitting the ball, are you playing with more shape or you're flattening it out a little bit? Are you bringing the slice in does that become an effective play? You know, and I think the more that our players get these different stimuli I that's coming in, the better prepared they will be growing up. So granted, I wouldn't want that every single week for every single player. But I do think getting our players on various surfaces indoors outdoors is is really important. And I think casing point here a little bit with Tamara. You know, it's it is hard courts probably and sorry Tamara if you're listening to this is probably going to be a bit of a challenge for her for through her career. And I'm sure she'll find ways to have some success. But in reality, she's going to be looking for C L at the side of the of the tournament tournament schedule to try and get on something that makes her feel very comfortable.
Victoria Kiernan 1:30:41
I don't know she looked pretty comfortable in the first round against Ons Jabeur I really thought she was going to take her in that match had so many chances.
Daniel Kiernan 1:30:50
And she played great, didn't she and I but I think we do see this a lot. It's a tennis match is hard at that level, any tennis match is hard to win, you know, and you can, you can play a good match, but ultimately still fall short. You know, and I think we saw once it started to go south in the third set, you could argue this is maybe another conversation for another time. But after you win the second set, do not take a toilet break. You know, momentum in tennis is is a massive thing. I know she had just absolutely desperate, of course. But as she played that third set, the confidence did go away quite fast. And, you know, maybe you could argue on a clear coat, it wouldn't do as much. And look, all of us this is not just about tomorrow, tennis players have preferences. You know, they have preferences for tennis court. They have preferences for conditions for opponents, the type of opponents you know, some some opponents give them more time some opponents serve the way they like to return, you know, tennis balls, you know, there's there's various, there's so many there is so many variables in our sport, which is what makes it so challenging. You know, so absolutely. Tamara is a world class tennis player that can play on any surface. But just maybe that little margin of not quite being used to it not quite having the volume, not quite having the belief is is why she couldn't get over the line in this match. But certainly competing like that against the world number two shows that she isn't far away
Victoria Kiernan 1:32:26
Well she moves into clay courts, now, doesn't she?
Daniel Kiernan 1:32:29
I don't know the exact schedule, but I know you certainly can. I think she I think she's in Thailand, which is another hard court event. But you certainly can you get the opportunity to jump into the clay courts. If you're gonna play Indian Wells and Miami, which I would imagine her ranking will be borderline of wherever she does, then you're jumping back to the hard courts for the month of the month of March. Before then you get your bigger clay court season between April and running into into Wimbledon. On the grass courts as well. It's an exciting season, the tournaments come thick and fast. So watch this space, but you certainly have our back, and all the best for 2023 Tamara.
Victoria Kiernan 1:33:13
And don't forget to check out the chance to work with us on the show. Starting in September. As Dan said at the start, we're offering a student placement year. So if you or anyone you know, is interested in podcasting, and even better podcasting and tennis, go to the show notes. We've put a link to all the details for the role in there. Or you can email us at CTC dot podcast at soccer tennis.com.
Daniel Kiernan 1:33:40
Go on, be brave. If you sat there thinking, Oh, that will be amazing, but I can't because I just love it in England. I love it wherever I am. I can't leave my friends and family. Be brave. Take that step. You know, that's what this podcast is all about. You know, controlling the controllables taking that step to taking ownership of your life. We'd love to have you with us and we promise you an amazing year working alongside the team. My other little plea, and sorry to be this beggar. Now, if you're good enough that you're still listening to us at this point of the podcast, you probably have already been kind enough to like on whatever pod podcast platform to, to share, to leave a review to press that button to subscribe to the podcast. It's all free. But just that 15, 20 seconds that it takes for you to do that means that this podcast grows, and as this podcast grows, it means that we can continue to push it forward to bring amazing guests to you and bring all of this fantastic value that you get from the show. So thank you for that. Enjoy Australian Open final weekend, wherever you are in the Well we wish you all the very best but until next time I'm Dan Kiernan and we are Control the Controllables
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