Thomas Johansson - 2002 Australian Open Champion

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Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Episode 207 of Control the Controllables and another first for Control the Controllables as we have our first ever Australian Open singles champion, back in 2002, Thomas Johansson beat Marat Safin in four sets to go against the grain. It was an Australian Open where Pete Sampras was going for his 14th Grand Slam. And Thomas Johansson came out of the shadows to win the event. And talking about coming out of the shadows. Thomas Johansson comes from Sweden, which has been an incredible tennis nation over the years, and he came out of the era after you're Bjorn Borgs, Mats Wilander, Stefan Edberg, and there were so many amazing Swedish players that came through. And now he's turned his hand to coaching on the ATP and WTA Tours, as this last year, he's been working with Sorana Cirstea, and also helped her to the quarterfinals of this, this year's US Open. We live by controlling the controllables here at Control the Controllables. And one of my controllables when I do podcast episodes, is to make sure my microphone is fully switched on. And turning the right way. I hold my hands up, I've messed up big time on this one. So your volume when I am speaking won't quite be of the quality, or the levels that it's supposed to be at. So please accept my apology on that. But Thomas sounds great. And you'll still absolutely love the episode. So I'm gonna pass you over to Thomas Johansson. So Thomas, Johansson a big welcome to Control the Controllables.

Thomas Johansson  02:00

Thank you very much. I'm doing fine. I just came back from from Stockholm. We were there for me and my wife who were there for five or six days. So the kids, they were alone here they are quite big now. So it was fine. But it was a nice trip. We don't go back to Stockholm that much. So but it was cold. And it was actually snowing, believe it or not one day. So we had a great time.  I believe it very well, I've just got back from the UK. And we bought for the Thomas chosen to live in warmer climates over the years in South Spain to have a spare but I was in the UK unfortunately visiting my mum who was not so well. But I don't think it stopped raining for two and a half days. And I had my daughter with me and she said Why is it dark, it was 330 She's concept of darkness at 330 in the afternoon. But you were saying just about it's definitely well worth a mention before we delve into into your life Thomas and all of the great things you've achieved and learnt over the years but a great cause you're in Stockholm, and you know using your name Jonas Bjorkman, as well, and charity. So tell us a little bit more about that. Because what I'd love to do as well is put the links into that at the end of the podcast, and if anyone then wants to jump in and, you know, be part of that, or you know, be able to, you know, be sure their kindness towards it, having their graves breath involved in. Yeah, I went to the first charity event I went to was actually my hometown. So in my hometown, we have a great ice hockey team. And a very good friend of mine, he played in the NHL, and he also played in the national team of Sweden. He started a foundation 2016. And this year, in the beginning of this year, he called me and he asked if I wanted to become an ambassador. And the charity event is we're trying to help kids that have difficulties. It could be that they're sick, it could be that they need more time in school, for example. So in general, kids that have that struggles in the society. So it's been growing quite quick. We are in three or four different cities in Sweden. And then the second one I went to is actually one of my closest friends Jonas Bjorkman. He started a foundation 10 years ago with one of our most famous musicians in Sweden. So his name is Måns Zelmerlöw and he actually won Eurovision Song Contest. I don't know when don't ask me one. But a great guy and they are helping kids in Kenya. So they have done such a great job. So I think they have built now two or three schools So they have a small hospital. They also have a dentist clinic as well. So it's growing really fast. I have not been there yet. But I would love to go. Jonas and Mans, they go there every year to see what they're doing. So it's it was a very good course, like you said, and then of course, my wife and I, we enjoyed Stockholm a little bit as well.

Daniel Kiernan  05:28

You know, I think we talk a lot on the on the podcast, and also that sort of tennis academy, that tennis is a vehicle, you know, and I think yes, it's what's been so great about this podcast is to show all the different stages, stages developments, and the fact that you guys have had your amazing playing tennis careers is you then doing it as coaches, and you're now able to use your names and contacts for such good, it just really nicely kind of finishes that circle and showcases how it truly is a vehicle.

Thomas Johansson  06:05

Yeah, and also what what was good with, or what is good with Jonas' charity event is that in the morning, we play tennis. So Jonas, of course, he knows everyone. So the lineup sometimes can be quite impressive. We have a few slams in between each other and I don't know how many titles Davis Cup wins, you know. And then in the evening, there is a dinner, and then Mans Jonas partner, of course, calls his friends. So I would say it's, it's, it's an amazing day that we have with each other. And as you know, tennis is, is a beautiful sport, because it's such it's such a social sport. And in especially in Sweden, since we've had a very strong history of tennis. Everybody knows how to play tennis, and everybody wants to play tennis. And of course, if they step on the court with, let's say, Stefan Edberg, or maybe Munsieville. Under Jonas Bjorkman are is it's it's, you know, it's a lot of fun.

Daniel Kiernan  07:11

So you have to before I jump into your life, come on, give us the order of player from last week, who was who was on the?

Thomas Johansson  07:20

Well, normally we have, I mean, both. We have Magnus Norman, where Michael Till's from Nicholas quilty, but this week, as you might know, there is a challenger in the good to great tennis academy. So unfortunately, they couldn't come but I was there. Martin sillage was there as well. Right? Because Jonas, used to coach mine for many for I think, a few years. And his yard was there. And then my coach, Andreas Vinciguerra, former I would say top 30 for maybe 40 player, Tomas hooks, that's a very famous tennis coach from Sweden, he was also there. So in the previous years, we've actually had a bit stronger, to be honest. But as I said, Magnus Norman, and Nicholas quilty and Michael Kisum, they were busy with their challengers. So, but we had a great time. Great.

Daniel Kiernan  08:18

Thomas, you've said something there. And the starting point, I always ask the guest and I want to I want to know how you got into tennis. And it might be obvious because at that time, certain, certainly tennis was a was a real big deal and swing then you can just list names after name after name, you know, the first time you played major or the Australian or the 17 other Swedes there. And now we don't have it. So tell me first, why why not? What what's happened at what point did that conveyor belt stop? Or not stop, but certainly slow down. And And why was that when tennis has been historically such a big amazing sport? In Sweden?

Thomas Johansson  09:07

Yeah, it's, it's very tough to say, you know, I, first of all, I got into tennis because my dad and my grandfather played a little bit of tennis, but not on a high level. Okay. But I started. I am honest, I started to play tennis when I was wearing diapers. So I started very early. And then I played with my dad and my grandfather, and then they put me in a tennis school. And then I think when I was five, the head coach of the tennis club, where I'm from. So when I was playing, and then he went up to my dad and said, I really want your son to start playing in our club. So that's how it all started. And then I was successful as a junior. I was, you know, I won the European champ. friendships I finals of Orange Bowl. And so I would say I was top, top three, top five. Yeah, many thought that it was going to go a lot quicker for me to, you know, with the transition from juniors to pros, but it actually took a bit of time. So I think I was 21 when I broke into the top 100. And then from there on I you know, my ranking, I would say improved quite solid, you know, from from, let's say 100 and downwards. But to answer your second question is, I don't know why. Because we we've had such a strong history of tennis, started with Bjorn Borg. And then we have Mats Wilander, we had definite Berg and then, you know, we had Jonas Bjorkman. We had Thomas and quiz Magnus, Norman, myself. And then I would say the last one was maybe Robin Soderling. That had, you know, strong results where we had the Ima brothers as well, but they, they didn't reach, you know, as high as we did. But one thing that, for me sticks out is that, you know, building a team, together with a coach, meaning to have two or three players with one coach was a very successful formula in the Swedish tennis in a Swedish history of tennis, because it started with Edberg, Jonas Jansson. Maybe you remember him, Johan Carlsson, also, he was in this team, your kidney strim. I think even maxvill. Under was was in this team as well. And then we had another team with I think it was Magnus Larson, Thomas and Chris Nicholas quilty, Michael Hillstrom. And then the the third team was Magnus Norman, myself, and then a guy called Patrick Fredericson who was two years older than than myself. But this was the most successful formula in the history of Swedish tennis. And then the last team that we had was Robin Soderling, Joachim Johansson. And then one more guy, I don't remember who it was. So but after that, we we stopped with that. All these teams have been financed by a company, okay, or partly from the Federation. But now Swedish Federation, they don't have that much money anymore. So they can they they struggle to do that. So to answer your question, the only chance I would say we have, apart from the good academies that we have with the good grades Academy and some other academies that we have in Sweden, this, I think, would be the solution. Moving forward, you know, grab two, three guys put a very high level coach and put to three girls with a very high either female or male coach, this, I think, is the solution moving forward. Because talent is there. If you would tell me, but you were so talented, but now we don't have any talent, I would say I would strongly disagree, because I think that talent is there, we just have to pick them up. And we also have to have a good coach. Because also most of the coaches have moved out from Sweden, as well. And they are you see, you see myself using many of the other coaches on the on the professional tour. But to get back into, you know, to develop good players, I really think this is the solution.

Daniel Kiernan  13:44

And your is your belief. So it's quite an interesting conversation around this as it's one of the good coach, but it's also having a dedicated coach who's willing to do the travel that you take. So if you go back to your time with that team. Did you guys have one coach who was with you all the time?

Thomas Johansson  14:05

Yes, we had Magnus Tiedemann, which lately became my personal coach. He was traveling with us, I think around 25 weeks here, I would say, so I knew we had to start on at that time, satellite level satellite is the future level now. And then we had to, you know, try to improve and move up to challenges and to tour events. So the last events, Magnus Tiedemann made with us, I was in the final of Stockholm open, Magnus dorma was in the semis and Patrick Frederickson was in the quarters. So, that just shows that we the good coach like Magnus, and also dedicated players like ourselves, you can succeed

Daniel Kiernan  14:58

and the next question on hotties, do you think it's best to better to do it in a team like that, or one on one at a younger age?

Thomas Johansson  15:05

I think team is way better. And I will tell you why. I was the first one out of us three that broke through. So I was the first one that you know, cracked, let's say the top 100 And maybe made a quarterfinal in the Tour event or, you know, did you think about this is that we were spending, you know, day and night together. And we were practicing with each other every single day. So they saw that if Thomas can make it, yeah, I can make it because I beat Thomas yesterday and the day before and the day before that. So I think you encourage each other if you're in a team. That's why I think it's very good. Yeah,

Daniel Kiernan  15:53

I guess the issue comes, especially as you're making your way up through the ranks you, you get into start getting into challengers, and then the two players can only play futures. And there's always going to be those logistical challenges. Yes, but it seems to have been a pretty consistent way of doing I think, specifically with boys as well, maybe more so than girls. I don't know what you think on that. But I always think that the boys in general hunted in packs a little bit more than than the girls do, as well.

Thomas Johansson  16:25

Yes, I agree with you. You know, like I said, it's been a very successful formula. They tried in the on the women's side as well, it didn't work as well, as you know, among the guys. But I really think that this is, this is the solution of, you know, trying to get back into, you know, with the Swedish players, again, to have a big company saying, you know, you know, what we will put, we will finance two teams, one for the guys, one for the girls, and then we will hire very high level coach, and he will go with you for a year or maybe two. And also getting back to what I what you said about this logistic thing, if one breaks through and the other one takes a little bit of time. We also this team was made for one year, and after one year, you could actually change around a little bit. So that's what happened, you know, we were three in a team. And then the third guy didn't, you know, make it as quick as maybe Magnus and myself and then Patrick came in. But for me, it's, it's it's so good. It's so much fun to travel together. And, and also fight together and sometimes against each other as well.

Daniel Kiernan  17:49

And on that on that subject as well. Because I know, again, going back or to 2002, which I want to get to because we've got a Grand Slam champion in front of me, which is a real privilege. And the year you won 2002 I believe there was one Swedish journalist that was there throughout that event. And we all know that the media shakes us right. You know, like, we talked about Netflix, I'm not convinced that the tennis version of Netflix has done the job that it could have been I'd also need the Formula One Did you know and it's got everyone into Formula One. Everyone into try and drinks the social media and it's the it is the way that the world has worked and always works. And I guess not capitalizing on yourself and your success, which probably they had capitalized on Bjorn Borg and Stefan Edberg and Mats Wilander over the years. How big of an influence do you think that is to then getting getting more and more people into the sport, the fact that nearly the the media coverage hasn't been as good or wasn't as good as it once was.

Thomas Johansson  19:02

It's interesting that you you talk about this because I just started to watch Tour de France and on Netflix, and I've never been I would say a big fan of cycling. But now it's almost like you want to grab a bike and you want to go out cycling just to see also how tough it is. So in Sweden, Bjorn Borg was the first one that broke through. And then luckily we had Mats Wilander Stefan Edberg and this arid and micropatterned force Henrik Sundstrom we had I mean we had so many,  I think was number six in the world at one stage and did not make the Davis Cup team. So it just shows how strong we were but to make more people play tennis. I think you need Netflix series about tennis and I agree with you. I really I don't think they They caught the tennis Well, if you compared to the Formula One, and if you compare to Tour de France, I think tennis was so and so. But in Sweden during the pandemic, there were two sports that were open to play tennis, and padel. Yeah. So after the pandemic, tennis had a, I would say, a, like a big lift in Sweden and also padel, of course. But now when I was at home, in Sweden, I saw more, more and more people are playing tennis, more and more kids are playing tennis. And I'm sure that the talent is there, you just have to catch them. And it's the same for me, like, when you go to school, if you have a good teacher, you like going to school you like this specific subject. But if you and it's the same in tennis, if you have a good coach, you listen, and you want to learn, and you actually enjoy your time on the court. So I think it's, I think that's the way to go.

Daniel Kiernan  21:09

So we're gonna live in. It could be a real world, I guess, but I'm gonna put you in a fantasy world for a minute. You are the performance director for Swedish tennis. And you have to give me a three point plan on how you're gonna How you gonna change this Swedish tennis over the next 10 years. You've given me one, or you've talked about the traveling teams. So what are the other two

Thomas Johansson  21:43

Well, the second one is, is easy as well, we need more tournaments, we need more, we need more futures, we need more challengers. So I'm not only talking about men, I'm talking about for women as well. So we need more tournaments. At the moment, we have Stockholm Open, we have Swedish Open in Bolstad. And then we have now a challenger in Stockholm. This is not enough. If you look at other countries like France, Italy, Spain, you have futures and challenges every single week, pretty much. So this is the second thing I would like to to change. Third thing is, I would like to have a bit of new blood in the Swedish Tennis Federation. I also would like that the I would say the relationship between the academies and also the Federation improves. I think we need people like, of course, you need people with experience in business. But you also need people that has experience in the tennis world. And we are lacking there a little bit. So that would be my third, third key points to change.

Daniel Kiernan  23:04

I can't comment on the third point, because I don't know the ins and outs of the Swedish Federation. But any Federation or any country in the world that sticks to the first two gives a decent shot, you know, yeah, and I do. And I have to be fair to the northern European countries, because I think the UK has this problem as well. I'm in the south of Spain, you're in the south of France. It's 25 degrees on November the 15th. Today, and if when people asked me about the Spanish system, I always said it's all about competition. And now but then if we go back and layer, you need to have the courts that are available for a reasonable price to have exactly that amount of competition. Yeah, you can. And we're talking about future challenges. But you can expect play pretty much a tennis Europe fall under 40s. Every week between now and are between July and December, you can play an ITF Junior tournaments. You've got then the national level events, which are actually higher level than the 10 year ups in the ATS. But all of that's possible, because you have these tennis clubs that are 25 outdoor courts, and you have you know, the facilities are so amazing. And the weather is so amazing all year round. You're able to do it. And I would imagine the facilities in Sweden are quite expensive. And it's a bit more of a challenge. It doesn't mean it can't be done. But there is some challenges there I think for for the northern European countries, you know, to be able to put that all but ultimately, we're playing a sport, right? We're playing a game. So we kept people playing the game, and you've got a competitive punch of people. And the prize is a big enough. The cream will rise to the top. Yeah. Everybody wrote that. Yes.

Thomas Johansson  24:58

And I also think that You know, in Sweden, we have big companies, we have very, very, very successful companies that they love tennis. And that's also why I think that if you can package it in the right way, yeah, I am sure, especially now where we are that companies in Sweden would go in and support teams, like I said, or maybe more events, more junior events as well. I'm sure about this, because now this Swedish tennis is is not good. We don't have any player in the top 100. So this is a great opportunity for a company to come in and say, You know what? We came in in 2020. It's for whatever. Yeah, we changed Swedish tennis. It's back again now. Yeah. And I'm sure we can, I'm not, maybe we won't reach what we had in the 80s and 90s. But let's say we could have two or three guys top 102 Three girls, you know,

Daniel Kiernan  26:11

but the way that I look at it Thomas's from the app from the outside, if we take a Real Madrid, Manchester United and Liverpool, Juventus and AC Milan, if these football clubs have a bad few years, 1015 20 years, which during history would have happened, there a sleeping giant that someone wants to get their hands on. And when I think of tennis, I'm 43 years old. So I was definitely brought up in the era where Swedish tennis was at the forefront. But when the giants of the sport Sweden is one of them, and it's a sleeping giant, so there's there's something historically that needs to be played on there as well, from a marketing standpoint. And, and certainly while beyond still around, you know, you've still got, you've got the people that are still around, you know, you wait too long. Yeah, it's hard to get them on a marketing campaign. Well, we've sorted Swedish tennis out. So that's, that's the, that's the starting point. And, you know, it's, but it's fascinating for me to get your insight into that. But I do want to jump ahead to you, the player, Tasha Hanson, the player, and we spoke at US organ and I mentioned that I was lucky enough to you won't remember me, but I certainly remembered you as you came to the grass courts to play with us as juniors and, you know, this Australian Open champion, you know, walk through the gates to have to have that opportunity. But it wasn't just the Australian Open, you know, you were nine singles titles, you know, you were number seven in the world, you are the Olympic silver medalist, you know, in the doubles of the Wimbledon semi finalists, you know, you had an extraordinary career and what I find fascinating about your career as well as how it's built, like you've said, like you brought up 20 At that age, which back in that time was quite late now, more than norm, you know, when when you look back at your playing career, there's obvious highlights, but what are the real standouts? And and how do you reflect on that now, you've, you've moved through your playing career, and you're now you know, into the into the coaching world and in living your life? How do you reflect back on? And I guess the question for me would be do you view your playing career as a successful playing career?

28:44

Yes, I do. I'm very happy and proud of my of the career that I had. Of course, I have regrets. Like, I think most of the players that have retired, but for me, the highlights, of course, was you know, winning the grand slam in Melbourne. That was something that I dreamt off. And this was something that, you know, this was my biggest goal or my career. And then I have to pinpoint also the Olympic silver medal together with a very, very, very good friend of mine. And we Simon Aspilin. Yes, exactly. So Simon is one year older than than I am. We played juniors together for many, many years. So you know, taking a medal and especially the way we did it, beating low drag Remo in the semis. I think it was 1917 After almost almost quite five hours of play was something extraordinary. And the third I would say would be winning Stockholm open, winning at home especially. I think it was 2004 when I beat Agassi in the final seven, six in the third. stock stock on the venue in Stockholm is La Do you play in someone's living room because it's you know, it's wooden benches, a wooden floor and the atmosphere is, is something that you you haven't seen before. And then last winning Davis Cup was also I think that because when you play tennis, you play alone most of the time, and I really enjoyed playing in a team. So that's why I think I did well, we would Simon, for example, I did well in in Davis Cup as well. So no, I'm I mean, I'm very, very happy with my career. I have regrets, of course. And also, I would have loved to finish my career when I wanted not because I had to, because I had I had an injury in awaits, it actually started, I think, oh seven, like slowly, I had problems with my Achilles tendon. And then after endo 2008, I made the surgery and it was a pretty much a routine surgery. So I was quite confident coming back after two, three months, to be honest, but it didn't work out. You know, I could play I could practice hard Monday, could barely walk Tuesday, had an average practice Wednesday, could not work Thursday, and then was worst Friday. And you know, this is not the way you can, you know, be professional and keep yourself on a high level. So that's why in 2009, I said, you know, I can't do it anymore. And this was something that, for me was sad, frustrating, and disappointing. Because you really want to end your career when you want to end. And that's why for example, if you compare Jonas Bjorkman to myself, Jonas could end his career when he wanted. So he doesn't really miss the tennis. For me, I had to finish because of an injury. And I really missed the tennis every time I stepped on the court, I feel like, you know, I wanted to compete for another maybe two, three years, because I felt that I could not maybe reach top 10. But I could, if my foot would have been okay, I think I could have been, you know, everything between 20 to 40, which is a very good ranking, and you could, you know, you could play every tournament that you wanted to play, and you could have a great life and we also got our son in 2006 We got our daughter 2009, it would have been so much fun for me to show them what my life was all about.

Daniel Kiernan  32:52

And I'm gonna get back to that, because that'd be very sad. So I spoke to Andy a few podcasts episodes ago and he said something about I've told you this now he said something that for a while, I asked him about his kids actually. And he said that it was a big motivating factor for him. The real big motivating factor and he was playing and for a while it was almost like the number one purpose he was playing for his kids he felt then one day that realization it is it really, really funny when you said they just didn't give a shit. And I realized that it's all time I was like, trying to do this, you know, so my kids could see that. See me on the tour, you know, they're gonna actually did they really didn't care, they couldn't care less and they will they will down the line, of course, but it was it was quite a funny thing he said, But the question I have to ask is, what is it that you missed? What was the what was the bit that you really missed wrong? from not being on the tour? Was it the competition? Was it the travel was it the feeling of we all have ego the feeling of being the tennis player and being having an identity? You know, what was it that was the thing that you really missed?

Thomas Johansson  34:19

Everything you just mentioned that was what I was missing, I missed competing, I missed traveling, I missed this feeling of stepping steppin you know on the court and play a very tight match and you know, maybe go up you know, go out on top. And also you know, we had a such a great life. My wife and I traveling on the tour we went on, we went to all these different countries and I could do what I loved. I had a great coach. So this feeling of winning a match you You know this you cannot get it you cannot get this adrenaline, you know, adrenaline rush that you get from winning a match and especially a tight one, or maybe you you play lights out, you know, one one match. You cannot get this feeling it doesn't matter. I don't think it matters if you if you become a very successful businessman and you maybe you make an exit you you make a lot of money, but it's not the same. You know, it's not the same stepping into court, a little bit like a gladiator. People are watching, they're looking. I just loved it. And this is something that I miss every single day.

Daniel Kiernan  35:46

Back to that feeling so that that deer back in January 2002. Play we're at satin, and that was a good friend of mine and juniors. Obviously Marat Safin  was a big superstar. We went to set down you came back and even one in one in four sets. That feeling is you as you shook hands. And then the moments after take me back enough feeling Tell me about that.

Thomas Johansson  36:13

I was a bit, I have to say I was a bit shocked. First of all, Marat was a very, very good friend of mine we played a few times before and after that much. So we spent a little bit of time together, we practice a lot with each other. And we still are in contact. I can be deadly honest. At six one in the in the time break, I just freezed completely freeze. And if you know me, I don't get nervous very easily. I've had a few matches here and there that I got a bit tight, but it was most of the time in the beginning of the match. But it's six one I played, I have to say, I played my best tie break in my life up to six one. Yeah. But from 61264 It was probably the worst tiebreaker that I've ever played. Because I just completely fleeced I have no memory of what happened. Then at six, four, there is a rally. And you can see you could see it on YouTube. And we made a drop shot and I run and I you know, my, my shot is not great. He would never miss that lobe. Because I was so close to the net, he had the whole court. And as the Lord went over my head, I was like it's in, it's in. And then I hear the lines person say out and I look at my wife and my coach and they're just screaming. I don't know what happened. I mean, I still can wake up in the middle of the night and, and you know that that lob just felt in. But it was I mean, it was out because they were sitting by the baseline so they could easily see that it was out. But so for me it was I was shocked. The first time it hit me was after the match. I had to make the press conference. Then we had a dinner, just friends, and then family. And then after that we went to a bar with all the Swedish fans that had you know, pushed me for the week. And there were like four or 500 people in that bar. We had no idea where to go. So but all of a sudden we just hear people singing. So we just followed you know, the singing and then we came into the bar and it was I'm not kidding like 500 people so they had reserved an area for us and I invited every single person in that bar for champagne. So bought champagne for the whole freaking bar and even today I meet people coming up to me and said you know what? I was there. I was in that bar. So it was an expensive very expensive bar tab but for me I just didn't get I didn't care because they've been they have been pushing me so much from day one. All the way to the final.

Daniel Kiernan  39:24

That's the best Grand Slam winning story I've heard because not that I've spoken to everybody about every Grand Slam but the stories I've heard in the past it always seems suggest the topic but it's you know but to be able to end up all with four or five leads Yeah, that's like that's like Ryder Cup cup stuff you know I can imagine you know that's a that's a real thing to cherish

Thomas Johansson  39:49

and sweets, they know how to drink I promise you so that's why the bar tab was quite expensive but and also the day after, when we slept In a little bit, and then, you know, going for breakfast, you see your face on every single newspaper, and you see your face when you watch TV, CNN, you know, everything is, is showing highlights from the match, then you realize that you've done something big.

Daniel Kiernan  40:24

Because Because you and please share this in the right way. It's almost like it was it was a surprise. Yes. And almost, I guess the going from an expectancy, probably not even the 16 seeds. But, you know, which is probably higher than people realize as well, but, you know, gone from not being expected to winter then when that almost range of surprises is so big. Whereas I went Novak wins. It's our dogs won again. You know, so for you to have had that experiences. It's almost a more intense experience. Yes. Then know that Roger Rafa all of the guys have had over the years because it was, you know, coming from, not from nowhere, because you were a top top top top class player, but coming a little bit more from outside the box as well. Yeah,

Thomas Johansson  41:17

No, I felt off to the third round, when I felt that I found my game. And then it just became better and better and better and better. And then, of course, in the final, starting to final, I was very tight and nervous. So my dad brought me first game in the match. And so he wanted he we helped serve, so he wanted first sets. But then I would say in the end of her set, I started to feel my game again. So then I started to build confidence and fourth set could have gone quicker, because I had three 150 40 to go double break up. And then I think the match is pretty much finished. But my that is such a you know, tough opponents. But I felt that if even if it was a big surprise, I felt that if I can just keep this level. For a few more matches, I felt that I had a chance. I felt that in pretty much every tournament that I played, I felt that if I can reach this level, which I didn't do all the times, but if I can reach this level, in a match, or for a few matches, I know that I'm dangerous, and especially on the court that we played on in Melbourne. So the belief was that yes, yes.

Daniel Kiernan  42:38

Because a couple of things I remember from from that time. One I remember actually why I that was linked to that. If I had somebody who we knew that was there, but I remember being quite a windy, quite a windy start to the Aussie Open. There was a couple of years so yeah, that journey and then. And then Pete Sampras was going for his 14 for he lost in the semis to Marat Safin as well. Did you play your semi final before that? Did you read the second one?

Thomas Johansson  43:10

I think I might be wrong. I think that might be Tommy has in the semis. I think Marat beat Sampras in the quarters, I think I think I think I'm not sure but to win a slam or to go deep in Islam, you have to be a bit lucky. You have to be a bit lucky you have to be I mean, you have to be quite fresh off to the first week for example, you cannot play you know, a five set or a five setter and then and then expect to maybe win. So first week I think I won first round four sets second round third, three sets third round, maybe three or four. So I had the five setter in the semis. But I played my semis on the Thursday. Okay, and this was something also quite strange. That's you finish your semi final on the Thursday, and then you play then you play the final on Sunday. Yeah, no, so it was tough for me too harsh to say keep my focus funnily enough it sounds strange but you know having two days it's too too much

Daniel Kiernan  44:24

time and also get you out of the routine. You know because it's events you get into those routines don't you how you get up yummy breakfast you hit you do this you do that and then all of a sudden that time the question I have so many things I want to ask you it opens up so many kinds of thoughts when I you know talking to you about it, but I have Pat Cash on a few simple and bow org that a conversation which I have a previous one I think it's a really important conversation and that is around. Also linking our self worth To the results that we have, you know, tennis players, tennis people, tennis coaches as well you know like that that ability to separate who we are as people and the how we value ourselves as a person related to that and I cannot think of because you've also said it a couple of times and I can feel it you know tennis is something that's in your blood and you miss tennis and you know there's that you know, tennis got tennis got away from you too early. When you have such a high as winning the Australian Open like that, and not just winning the odds, you're but then you've then got you're celebrating with four or 500 Swedes in a bar, the adrenaline rush you've got the feeling that you've got it's almost an impossible feeling to replicate unless you winning another slot but even then, really the replication isn't the same because it's it's not the first time is that something that you've struggled with at all? That is the beat any negatives of actually winning a Grand Slam? Was there been only positive after after it happened?

Thomas Johansson  46:15

It was a lot more focus on me. I had to do a lot more, you know, media and things like this and, and also I came to tournaments, you know, being the number one seed which didn't happen before Australian Open. So the pressure was of course there. But Harsha said is winning a slam is something that I dropped off. Did I think that I could win another slam? Maybe. But that was not chasing arches. I was not chasing or expecting to win another one. So I had in 2005. I was in the semis in Wimbledon, and I had a it was a rain delay. I think after the first step against Radek. There I felt that I could maybe reach a fine. But then Roger was waiting there. So I had a big chance against Radek in the semis accurate of that that much could have easily gone either way. But other than that I was not that close to go deep in Islam. I was I think I had maybe a quarterfinal or something and also the semi final in in Whitby. There I felt I had a chance to go deep or maybe to reach a final, you know, yeah, I don't think it's it's changed anything. Negative? Yeah, I think it was more positive, I got proof that I could be the best players. If I played, you know, my best tennis. Yeah,

Daniel Kiernan  47:58

it's a personal one for me, because I've actually to go into grad school their route with the girls I'm working with on the WTA right now. Gabby is actually here with me in southern grande this week. But we've got a team meeting tonight and the team meeting. You know, one of the things I've been I've been kind of collecting is one one that shows the weaknesses that they have, but also the opportunities and the threats that are coming up in 2024. Now, when we started working, there were 65 in the world between the world you know, they have this, you know, I know its doubles, and there's less pressure and less, you know, things that come on you in doubles, but all of a sudden they've gone to now they've they've won, they've won a Grand Slam, they've both moved in in the top 10 in the world, they, you know, disappointed to lose a close match in the sense of the WTA finals. Gabby's just been drinking cup last week with Canada. You know, they've had this kind of mad crazy three months of incredible results. And you know, what are some of those things that can pick your brain a little bit? What are things that are potential threats and pitfalls in over the next over the next few weeks or months for them or anybody who's winning a grand slam and moving forward.

Thomas Johansson  49:19

The most important thing is that you have to have your feet on the ground, meaning that you could have a lot of success which they had this year. But next year is a new year. And you have to take a take it's like a little bit of a cliche, but you have to take match. After match you cannot look to the and this is also a thing that okay, now I'm number four or five or six in the world. I play a girl or a guy that is 25 This one I should win easily. No you should not because As we all know that it's easier to, to chase them to be chased. And this is something that changed for me as well, you know, I was getting chased instead of chasing the other ones for a while. And this is something that you have to live with, you also have to understand that when the opponent steps on the court, they know that you have a higher level than that. They know that they have to take more risk that day. So that's why sometimes, you know, from my coaching career, I hear many times that this this girl was playing so good against me, or this guy came out firing left and right. And I said, Yes, but what do you expect? Did you expect that the guy or the girl would step on the court and just say, Jesus Christ, you're too good. Okay, I give up. It's not like that in the in the world of sports, they come out and they try to take you down with everything they can. So that's why for me I'm so impressed with guys like Novak Rafa Roger, because every single match, they play, they are the favorites, every single match, except when they play each other. And, you know, even if they play like shit, they they find a way to win. And this is a big difference between men and women. For me, women are looking for perfection. Guys, they don't do that. They, sometimes they say to themselves, today's not a good day, I don't feel the ball, I don't feel the my legs, I don't feel anything. So what do I feel, can I use something to you know, to try to win this match in an ugly way, I want to reach an eight or nine or 10 in you know, a 10 scale. Or maybe I might reach a 6.5. But I will fight I will fight then I will find a way. This is the biggest difference between as I see, as a coach between guys and girls. If the girls if the game is a bit of First of all, the stress is coming a lot quicker than you know for the guys. And then when the stress comes, they have difficulties to see things clearer. Because they want to be a 9.9 or maybe 9.8, or maybe even a 10.2, which is you cannot you cannot. And as a professional player, a former professional player, I know that maybe you have one or two matches per year, where you can close your eyes and hits. So this is something that is very important for everyone. First of all, they have to understand that this guy or this girl will come out with everything they have. And sometimes this player plays better that specific day then maybe a top 10 player. Yeah, you know, so but they don't have the consistency like a top 10 player. So in the women's tennis, especially, it's a lot more about psychology than in the guys, the guys you can coach and be more with game plans and strategy. But with the girls, it's more emotional, I would say. So you have to see what you have that specific day. You know, what, what can I fight with today? This is important in

Daniel Kiernan  53:45

terms of moving towards your coaching career, and you've you've worked with various Akari you've worked with done golf, then we're in the car currently work with her on MSDN or you've also worked with Philippe cran tracking rich. My first question moving into your coaching is the feeling you've talked about, which is you know, that adrenaline rush has has coaching been able to give you or replace that feeling as a player or

Thomas Johansson  54:18

It's it's very close, I would say it's for me, you know, coaching is as close as you can get to play. And especially if you feel that you have said something to the player or you've been working on something specific with the player, and then you get rewarded meaning you you win that match or you win that tournament. It's a it's a big rush. I cannot say anything else. I've been fortunate I've been working with great players, great people, also off the court. So you know we've had some good wins here and there and for me it's it's of course it's a huge rush.

Daniel Kiernan  55:05

And how, how influential in your mind a covering from a player's perspective, and now a coach's perspective, how influential GOP coaches are in the world of tennis,

Thomas Johansson  55:15

I think they are very important for the player. I also think that the the relationship outside the court is quite important because I have my coaching philosophies is quite simple. I tried to be very intense during the, the time that we spend on the court. But then after the match after the practice, maybe I talk tennis for another 2030 minutes. But after that, we don't talk about tennis. Because I really think that I see too many players, too many coaches talk about tennis, 24/7. Meaning that when you get to the match, where you are going to perform, you're dead. You're dead, because you play this match over and over and over again, you know, when you went to bed when you woke up, and I mean, it's it's draining. So my coaching philosophy is, is very simple. And I'm also sometimes I'm a bit too honest. But I You know how you say that if you were a true friend, you are honest, you're honest, even if sometimes the truth is painful. But after an emotional match, I try to give the player a bit of space, because the adrenaline and the emotions are so high. So it's tough to communicate. We can have a short talk, but I have the big talk most of the time, at night or the day after. Yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  56:56

And with that, it's a one that we both know this, we've both seen this many times, tennis is a bit weird that the player is the employee. Yes. So in terms of the terms of the policy, if, you know, I think that sometimes then leads to coaches not having the honest conversation that they should have. And they should be paying because we also know that pain, initiates change, you know, something that needs to be needs to change something, which it does require us all to progress. You know, that's the conversation again, the conversation I've had with Gabby, the last couple of days, it's not let's it there was a moment of celebration and join the achievements and reflection, but it's now okay, how, why should we continue? And we'll you know, let's actually look at things and what doesn't need to get better. And let's actually, you know, properly look at the details, and not rest on our laurels in in any shape or form. And what can I do better, as opposed to what can you do? As a player and Gina, all of all of those conversations that need to have sometimes those hard hitting conversations can bring a bit of pain to have, but in this professional world that we live in, that's the very least that we allow players, right?

Thomas Johansson  58:16

Yep, you need to be honest, as a coach. I see this many, many times that they are coaches are sometimes a bit too scared to lose their job. So they are not honest enough. And that's why I think you see, a lot of former players are coaching now. Yeah. And I think that they are quite honest, because most of them have had a quite successful career before. Yeah. So if things go bad, they don't actually say lien on the job as much as other people. But you know, you you you have to pick your fights as well. You have to it's like having kids, you know, you have to pick your battles. And sometimes I have a tendency of maybe be too honest. Like I said,

Daniel Kiernan  59:17

Can I pick you up on that? Because one of the things I as I was looking at the things for this talk Thomas's there was a comment in 2019 from Philip Philippe crane image that he claimed that you quit on him as he wasn't good enough. Yeah. Was that one of those examples of an honest conversation?

Thomas Johansson  59:39

Yes. Yeah, it was a very honest conversation. I mean, I like Philip a lot. I think he's one of the most talented players that I've ever seen on a tennis court. But it didn't work out as I wanted. And, of course, the feelings at that time were running Hi. But I felt that I was not the right guy for him. So that's why we stopped. It's quite simple. And

Daniel Kiernan  1:00:09

I often think as well, we're in a world of tennis that isn't instant gratification. And we're living in a world now where everyone expects instant gratification. And a conversation like that, that you might have in 2018, might actually come to fruition for him in 2028, as an example, you know, yes, takes, it sometimes takes time. But if we avoid those conversations, then people just go through life with, with these blind spots, you know, and, and we've all got them. And it's, you know, it's the, it's the nicest thing in lots of ways that anyone could ever do to anyone is to give those give that honest feedback. I think that's a great, it's a great piece of advice to any young coach out there. Because Because you will end up you might lose a few players, but they're not the right players for you anyway. And you know, you'll end their respect, the respect will come to you, and you'll end up with stronger relationships formed from it.

Thomas Johansson  1:01:14

Yeah, mmm. But it's like, a normal relationship. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. And as I said, you know, Phillip is such a nice guy, he's a talented player. But it didn't work out. And this happens many, many times, many times, and even don't want to mention any names, but you can win the big tournaments, you can win a Masters 1000, you can win a slam, you could win whatever. And then the coach or the coaching and the player relationship just finishes for no reason. And we've seen it before. And this, this happens, it happens in all sports. So you know, that's how it is.

Daniel Kiernan  1:02:04

Do you think it's harder nowadays, it used to, it feels that they used to be back in probably in your dear Thomas, I know, you've got a few years on me, but I'll put me in your in your day as well. Back in our day, it felt like players were with coaches for longer periods. Whereas dance partners, I was the in the doubles world, which I made, which, by the way, would be some Netflix show, you know, I was talking about the golden a good Netflix show doubles as like love island on drugs. I've said a couple of times, you know, everything, all the conversations and the things that are happening. And that was Mate Pavu . She was feeding him a few weeks ago. And he said, Now you can, you can't really have a doubles relationship along the two, three years, Max now just doesn't. It doesn't work longer than that. And I struggled a little bit in my head because I'm a team guy. And I like to, you know, I think there's ways of there's a lot to be said for unconditionally supporting and finding ways and communicating. But it's kind of similar with coaches and players as well now.

Thomas Johansson  1:03:12

Yes, yes, we live in, in a different world now. With many, many things that have changed since you know, I was younger. But yeah, I agree that you don't see that many long coach player relationships lasts for maybe a year or two, and then they change or it goes on longer, but then they call in someone else as well. So the teams are getting bigger, which I think is is not bad. Because I it's like running a company, if you have 80%, there is working great, but 20% is not working well. What do you do in a company? You call in a consultant or you call in someone that has done it before? It's the same in tennis. So I'm not surprised what I'm seeing. I just think that some coach and play relationship have ended for me in in a bad way, in a strange way. Because the results that were there. So but what what do I know? I mean, each team they have their things, you know, to work on? Yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:27

A couple of things. One, I really have to ask you to go back into this reality and fantasy world. This would normally be a fantasy question and ask somebody, you know, what, how would you coach against Roger Federer? How would you coach against Rafael Nadal? You know, how would you go about your coverage when you've done it? You know, you've you know, that's that's something that, you know, as you're coaching a player going into those matches and the aura that they undoubtedly have, yeah, and the player is feeling it. Give me An example of how you've tried to attack that as a coach to help get the player in the right mindset before playing one of these legends of the game.

Thomas Johansson  1:05:08

But it's not it's not easy, because, of course they are, most of the time, they are better in most of the things, meaning, you know, moving serving playing forehand backhand. But, you know, we've had a few matches, both when I was being coaching guys and girls against the best ones in the world, where you actually can find ways how to disturb them. But it's very difficult. But the most, the most difficult thing is to get your player believe, yeah, it happened many times these days, when you take all the pressure off, then they go out. And they like I said, before they go, they firing left, right and center. And that's, you know, that's how you can disturb them as well, to disturb one of the, you know, the big ones in the semi final or final. It's a lot tougher than to disturb them in the first round match. I've been coaching my players against the best ones in the world and to beat them in a semifinal or some it's very difficult. But to disturb them in the first round. It's I'm not saying it's easy, but it's easier that you're currently coaching cerana Because the yes, my observation, and I'm quite a curious guy. So when I'm at these tournaments, I'm often watching coaches, and I'm watching to see what happens. The first time I saw you with Saranda was Miami.

Daniel Kiernan  1:06:43

Yeah. And the thing that is hit me is how stripped back it seems, which is, you know, it's you often see this Luxor, Ana, and I know she hasn't made an abundance of late, late London swans, and you guys had a great year together this year, she, you know, beaten. Rebecca in the fourth round at US Open I mean quarterfinals. But you see so many of these teams that are teams they have, yeah, they have a team around them. There's coach, Agent hitbox, the physio, you know, there's all sorts going on. Whereas it's it's been really cool for me to see that it's just going to use around a rocket up and you're you're hitting with, you know, you're seem to just be almost doing every everything. You know, seems like a nice, relaxed relationship. You guys have got walking around with you. There's lots more conversations happened than I'd see. I guess my my question on that. Firstly, well done on a great 2020 Thank you. You know, it's it's very clear to see the success and the connection that you guys have had. So big, well done on that. But is that being a conscious decision to strip that back? Almost like it would be turning up to a futures about you know, that's kind of the feeling that you seem to have had, which goes a little bit against what most teams or players are doing on the WTO?

Thomas Johansson  1:08:07

Yeah, Sorana is a bit older, as well, you know, she's 33 years old, she has been on a tour, she's since she was 15, or 16. Yeah, so she's having a long career. So she is, I would say, more experienced than most of the girls. But at the same time, I mean, I also tried to simplify things. Of course, if you're one of the best girls in the world, you have a big team around you, you have a fitness coach, and you have hitting partners and everything. But for me, sometimes more people, more issues, more problems, more opinions, we are trying and I, I've done pretty much the same as I did when I played it was my coach and my wife. Sometimes we added either a physio or fitness guy was the same guy all the time. I wanted to try to keep things simple. And this is also I think, it also takes a lot of the pressure off. Because I think the bigger team you have, the more you feel like, you know, I have to perform. But as I said, if she would be, you know, 10 years younger than maybe would be different, but she knows a lot about tennis, she knows how to train, she knows how to prepare. She has played these girls many, many times. She knows what it's like. And for me, you know, sometimes you need to keep things very simple. And this is what I tried to do with her.

Daniel Kiernan  1:09:36

It's certainly seems to have worked well and you're continuing in 2024 You'll be out in Australia. Yeah. Well, I look forward to seeing out there. If I can get to you when you've gone back to the home that 20

Thomas Johansson  1:09:53

It's fine to nursery to all my friends, too. All

Daniel Kiernan  1:09:59

right. Interior bursary. What's the future? What's the future the

Thomas Johansson  1:10:04

future of Thomas Johansson is that I love coaching. I love coaching girls, I love coaching guys, I love coaching kids. I really want to because tennis is my in my DNA, I really want to continue working with x. Then in December last year, I joined a company called all time, all time is based here in Monaco, and it's the family office or the Formula One driver Charles Leclerc. So I'm more like an advisor to this company. The company is growing very quick, because we are helping athletes living in Monaco with their day to day business. So I would say it's not a management company. It's more a concierge company, helping players to move into Monaco to come into the social life here. also help them with different things. It could be you know, finding new apartment, parking, spot, insurance, new bank, everything like this, that management groups or management companies should actually maybe not do because they should more focused on the big things meaning, you know, getting clothing deals, Racket deals, you know, in the Formula One get get a team for them to drive for. So we are trying to make life a lot easier for the athletes living in Monaco. Well,

Daniel Kiernan  1:11:35

Well you've been a star Thomas. I've wanted to ask for a while because since Magnus, Magnus, Magnus, and mentioned your name so I'm pleased we've been able to bring it together. So a big thanks for your time. All the best to 2024 with serangan as well and I look forward to catching up but before I let you go, are you ready for the quickfire round?

Thomas Johansson  1:11:57

Sure. Go shoots

Daniel Kiernan  1:11:59

Olympics or grand slam?

Thomas Johansson  1:12:02

Grand Slam

Daniel Kiernan  1:12:03

Serve or return

Thomas Johansson  1:12:05

Serve

Daniel Kiernan  1:12:06

the greatest Swedish tennis player of all time.

Thomas Johansson  1:12:09

For me my idol was much Wilander but I would say be on Borg I would say Bjorn Borg.

Daniel Kiernan  1:12:16

Who's the toughest opponent Roger Federer or Pete Sampras,

Thomas Johansson  1:12:21

Roger Federer,

Daniel Kiernan  1:12:22

Roger or Rafa.

Thomas Johansson  1:12:27

I love both I would say I would say Rafa,

Daniel Kiernan  1:12:35

Favourite Grand Slam and why

Thomas Johansson  1:12:38

Australian Open because I won it.

Daniel Kiernan  1:12:41

Oh, man, you can say that. You've got to answer that. Normally you can say medical timeout or Not?

Thomas Johansson  1:12:49

Not.

Daniel Kiernan  1:12:51

What's one rule change you would have in tennis? Oh,

Thomas Johansson  1:12:55

good one shorter format.

Daniel Kiernan  1:12:58

Who is going to win the ATP to a finals that's currently going on in theory, who's your pick?

Thomas Johansson  1:13:04

Jannik Sinner,

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:05

Jannik Sinner, he took out Novak Djokovic last night and watch me do it again on Sunday on the final?

Thomas Johansson  1:13:12

I think he can.

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:13

That will be some weekend he can. Last question. Who should our next guests beyond control the controllables. You are then responsible for bringing them on? Okay.

Thomas Johansson  1:13:26

Okay. Let me have a thought. And then I will let you know.

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:31

You've definitely you mentioned one earlier who, who you said you're still good friends, you played him the 2002 Australian Open Final. He lost to me, Dan Kiernan in the semi finals of under 14 liquids and gas doubles event. So a rat suffering would be the one I'd love you to be able to get on if you if you able. I

Thomas Johansson  1:13:54

I will do my very best.

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:56

Thomas you star. Thank you very much.

Thomas Johansson  1:13:59

Thank you so much.

Daniel Kiernan  1:14:00

And we hope you enjoyed that as much as we did. And I say we because Vicki next to me again, it's been a busy few weeks, lots of lots of tennis events around the world and also closer to home. But a big welcome back, Vicki, how you doing?

Victoria Kiernan  1:14:17

Well really insisted on coming back to make sure your microphone was in the right position. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Daniel Kiernan  1:14:25

That's maybe overall beforehand, but we remember what we said control the controllables no blame, no blaming around here. And yeah, to jump into that we talk about Andalucia, where we've lived for 14 years. How lucky are we we've had the Billie Jean King Cup finals. We've had the Davis Cup finals. And actually we didn't make it this year because it was on my radar a bit late but they also had the the junior Billie Jean King and Davis Cup finals up in Cordoba as well. So a real hotbed of tennis right now and we've just heard that it's going to be back He had next year as well. So anyone looking to come on a trip, you know, get planning.

Victoria Kiernan  1:15:04

And I was saying to the kids like this is not normal to have both events in Spain and in our region where we can just leave after school and go watch some of the matches, like it's not normal. We did some Academy trips to go watch some of the ties and I'd written to the other local schools and said, This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for our players to see you know, all these amazing tennis players up close and personal and then they've announced next year so I might have to amend that sentence and

Daniel Kiernan  1:15:30

Also not normal normal on a school night to come home at 3:30am which is also what was happening watching watching those incredible during exam

Victoria Kiernan  1:15:40

weeks as well. Yeah, we'll see how those results come back.

Daniel Kiernan  1:15:43

But no very lucky and a big big well done to Canada, who of course, is very close to our heart. As Gabby dobrowski won all of her matches and played that leadership role that she always does in that team events to help Canada to to their their triumph in severe and then to Jannik Sinner's Italian team I mean what an incredible few weeks Jannik Sinner's had

Victoria Kiernan  1:16:09

Yet no mean feat. Beating Novak Djokovic twice on the same

Daniel Kiernan  1:16:14

Three times if you include the doubles.

Victoria Kiernan  1:16:16

My I was including the doubles. I was gonna say the same day. Was it the same day? Yeah, of course, twice on the same day, in the semifinals. And then obviously at the ATP finals as well. So yeah, he was just he was just a machine. And actually, when we watched Djokovic play Cam Norrie, I was thinking, Oh, can he do it again in this setting, but he got riled in the joke of it. She really got riled with the British fans. When we were watching, I was like, I don't know how many Davis Cups he's actually played over the years. But it was really interesting seeing him in that environment.

Daniel Kiernan  1:16:48

I think rightly so. I, I am growing more and more respect for Novak Djokovic, and I can see your face there. Because I know you're not a jockey which fan. But I thought there was a low percentage of the GB fans were completely out of order. I think there's a time and place I think when you're being interviewed after a match, and that was shocking. I think you've got to you've got to keep the respect, you know, not just because he's the greatest male player of all time, but just just anyway, you know, I think there has to be that integrity in the sport.

Victoria Kiernan  1:17:18

If you didn't, if you didn't see what happened at the I mean, there's, there was a there was a lot of stuff going on through the match that I didn't think was actually bad at all. It was very Davis Cup tie esque. He was giving it back to the crowds, it was all just quite a nice jovial, like competitive team event, Davis Cup atmosphere. But at the end of the match, when Djokovic was being interviewed for, I think, on the TV, but as well as for all the crowds. A section of the British fans started beating the drums and making loads of noise, so we couldn't hear him. And there were there were a lot of British fans, telling them to be quiet, you know, be respectful, we can't hear anything, but Djokovic did turn round. There was a big big argument back and forth between him and a couple of events. That's

Daniel Kiernan  1:18:03

Nice to see some character but

Victoria Kiernan  1:18:05

It's obvious what is going on. It was like a football match.

Daniel Kiernan  1:18:08

If you want to win the tennis match against and all that junk of it. You don't jeer against him. You know, if we've learned anything about Novak Djokovic over the last few years, his his motivation is proving people wrong. You know, he gets into that spied mode almost, I'll show you. And I don't think there's ever been a great player that goes against the fans. You know, he's, he's completely comfortable in that environment. And on that subject, I saw an article today actually yesterday on is Jannik Sinner the man to send all that jock coverage into retirement. You know, and it's that sort of article as well, that the more that those things are said and written about Novak Djokovic, the longer he is going to be around because he just loves that challenge. And it's going to be interesting to see if Sinner is going to join that group, the Novak Djokovic, which the Carla's Alcaraz, who I think are a little bit apart, and then obviously Medvedev, but I think Sinner could be the one that jack which is most fearful of. Let's see how he come back to that in 2024 as well. And

Victoria Kiernan  1:19:13

it was also really lovely seeing so many British people. I was gonna say our home city, it's not our home city, but our closest city to us and have to give a shout out to Kay Gilbert, who runs the tennis parents community on Facebook, who we've been following for some time, but we haven't actually met. So it was lovely to catch up with her and lots of coaches and players I used to play with when I was a kid. It was awesome.

Daniel Kiernan  1:19:38

Everyone's talking about Control the Controllables and you said British but also Finnish. You know, we had our Harri Heliovaara representing Finland and all the amazing Finnish fans that made their way over. It was a real spectacle. I'm still not a big fan of that format of the Davis Cup. But for us to be spoiled to have it on our home turf. It was great to anyone that was Assuming that we did see, go anyone that we didn't see reach out to us, because next year Malaga, Sevilla, you know, we'd love to see you. And we'd also love to see you in sala Grande, as well, for a few days before we've had fantastic weather this time of the year.

Victoria Kiernan  1:20:15

And it's almost like you'd planned it having a Davis Cup winner on the show. The week we're actually watching the Davis Cup finals.

Daniel Kiernan  1:20:23

Yeah, and I think at this point, we've got to speak about Thomas. And you know, he was a great, great guest, I think certainly know, hearing his thoughts on, on how to develop tennis players. And you know, Sweden has been this powerhouse for so many years. But actually, if you look back now, it's really Robin Soderling was the last true potential Grand Slam winner to come out of Sweden, you know, there's been a little bit of a quiet on the quiet front in both the men's and the women's, when

Victoria Kiernan  1:20:54

he said, there's no top 100 player, I was like, Oh, my gosh, it's been a drought

Daniel Kiernan  1:20:59

For a while. Yeah. And I thought it was very interesting. Because obviously, as all as a tennis academy, we have a lot of conversations. And I guess we're up with the latest trends of how people see tennis development happening. And this certainly is an obsession with this one on one scenario, this one on one travel, which I know there's a time and place for one on one. But I've always been of the opinion, especially in your younger formative years, you don't want to spend all your time with some adult, you know, who you can't quite relate to, and who, you know, you want to be a kid and you want to be spending time in your peer group. And I think it was really interesting. He kind of talked about hunting in small packs, you know, your two or three, off you go with a coach getting that contact time, but also pushing each other and learning from each other and realizing if one can do it, then the other one can do it. And you know, having that real competitive spirit. But more than that, creating fond memories that you've got for life. And I thought that was really interesting, something so simple. And that certainly would fit into the philosophy that I would have on game player development as well.

Victoria Kiernan  1:22:11

What I think came through loud and clear was how much he actually enjoyed his tennis, the way he was talking about it. The memories, even when he was saying, you know, my wife and I had an amazing life together, we traveled to all these different places doing the thing that I loved it it's not always the case, we don't always have former players on talking about how much they just really, really enjoyed tennis. And I do think yeah, there's something in that, like you said he was training as a team living with traveling in that team. Yeah, it's almost like college tennis, isn't it, you're doing all the difficult things and the fun things together as a group with with friends.

Daniel Kiernan  1:22:46

Well, winning doesn't always equal success. Those are amazing Valorie Kondos field as told us and you know, and that's by the way that our first podcast short is our last episode. And that's a nice little clip on that. But it's, it's exactly right. Because, you know, Thomas Johansson I didn't believe was 48 years old now. And he and he still still traveling the world with passion of tennis in his bloodstream. You know, as we were talking, he actually text me and said, We're really sorry, Dan, gotta go in five minutes. I'm gonna go and hit some balls with my son, you know, so it's any family it's in, it's in everything that he does. And if you have a bad experience, when you're young, you might win a few tournaments. But that doesn't always equal success, because we have the rest of our lives to live. And if you live the rest of your life, not even wanting to look at a tennis ball. And in my opinion, that's a failure. And I think Thomas put that really well to showing showcasing his story.

Victoria Kiernan  1:23:48

And keeping on the team theme. I loved his bar story, celebrating the Australian Open Wim. And that's that same along that same vein, isn't it? You know, he wanted to share it with the people that he's he said like helped him along in those in that fortnight in Melbourne. I always listen to the episodes first when I'm driving or cooking, and I was it was in the kitchen, cooking the kids dinner. I was screaming at the Mac How much was the barbell I'm gonna have to go on Google and see if it's on. You can't say oh, it was a lot Swedes like Swedes like to drink but I was like how much busty have spent well,

Daniel Kiernan  1:24:28

if he mentioned the bar then he might have actually got it for free if he keeps their advertising in which was but actually you know what jumps into my mind on that is because I said I never that often never happens. And and I totally get does because who wins all the grand slams. Novak Djokovic, Rafael Nadal Iga Swiatek. You know, Sabalenka. They're all such superstars that you couldn't do it. They're too big. They're too big of a superstar. You know, and I think that was the Beauty of Thomas's run in 2002 He wasn't a superstar. You know, he was, you know, a somewhat normal guy granted 16 in the world and a hell of a tennis player. But I think it's really nice that he was able to have that enjoyment with the with the public with the people with, you know his people. But unfortunately, I think almost the singles players they're too big of a superstar for to get that actually in the sport of tennis. And then the doubles players, nobody knows them so then, so then they're not in the Biver. So I think that's quite a unique story because of the position that he was in that he went on to win the event.

Victoria Kiernan  1:25:42

It did sound like one hell of a night and as we've talked about before, players often don't get the opportunity to go out and celebrate the you know, they're planning for the next event. They're on the next flight out to a tournament so yeah, I mean that that is how you do it, I would say.

Daniel Kiernan  1:25:56

And as much as it is lovely speaking to you, Vicki about the last few weeks, and having some reflections on Thomas's great wise words. We are going to leave you this time but we as ever have lots of exciting episodes coming your way. If you haven't listened yet, we had our first podcast short, you know that just reflecting on the last three and a half years and going through and picking out some of our best moments that on control the controllables to share with you we had Valorie Kondos Field in our last episode. We've got Tom Gullickson coming up in the next few days. I mean, that one I can't tell that story without a tear coming in my eye without goosebumps all over my body. So I don't want you to miss out on that. We then have Russell Fuller from Five Live coming on the show. And that's going to be a fantastic conversation. And then Sir Andy Murray if you missed it episode 200 You can go back and listen but we are going to pick out some of our best bits as well to share with you in a podcast short, lots more for you to look forward to. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan we are Control the Controllables