Travelling the World with Tennis: Megan Moulton Levy

DISCLAIMER: Please note we use a transcription service, so there may be some errors in the following transcription of this episode. If you can, please refer to the audio for exact quotations.

Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Episode 225 of control the controllables and today we bring Megan Moulton Levy, a brilliant guest, somebody who had had a fantastic playing career was top 250 in the world, WTA singles, and we entered into the top 50 in the world in doubles. Now, there's lots of special things about Megan, she, she now runs the program, She now runs the program in College Park, Maryland, the JTCC Center, where you'll often see the likes of Francis Tiafoe playing. And this is it's more than just a tennis club. It's a tennis center, it's a community. It's a place where they truly are using tennis as a vehicle to help so many kids through life, which is a massive, massive philosophy of my own. And I wasn't quite sure do I mention to Megan that she is under five foot and for someone to have gone through that four foot 11 And to be able to make it on the pro tour just says everything that there is to say about Megan and she brought it up before I did it the conversation. And I knew that that was then very much fair game to get into that part of the conversation and so much more. A brilliant guest someone that you will be inspired by I can assure you that and you will love listening to Meghan speak, it's going to pass you over to our brilliant guest Megan Moulton Levi, so Megan Moulton Levy a big welcome to Control the Controllables how're you doing?

Megan Moulton Levy  01:57

I'm so great. How about yourself?

Daniel Kiernan  01:59

Well, I'm better those that are listening won't hear what I just did with your name.

Megan Moulton Levy  02:03

They don't get the bloopers version of this.

Daniel Kiernan  02:06

That would be a good one, they'll get to see my red face might embarrass red face for completely butchering your name. So a big apology for that. But it is fantastic to have you on. And I guess as we always do, Megan on the show. And the whole idea of control the controllables is we're trying to see the sport from the many different lenses, you know, get under the bonnet. Understand everyone has different backgrounds, different ways into the sport, and then different journeys throughout it. So not that it was that many years ago. But can you take us back? Take us back to the start? How did how did this tennis bug get caught on by yourself? Yeah,

02:45

I mean, my family and I am one of the youngest of four girls, all of whom played tennis. And it was a family tradition on Sunday mornings to wake up and go play tennis. And of course, I'm I'm much younger than my sister 12 years younger than my sister. And I'm annoying. So I would wake up and just badger it. Let's go, let's go, it's time to go. And we went play tennis every Sunday, my mom, my dad, my uncle live time, it was just something we did. For those of you who may or may not know I'm vertically challenged, and not in the tall way. I'm very short. And that was a case when I was young as well. So the only thing I could do when we would go out and play was hit volleys, too. I kind of credit that to fast forwarding much longer forward in my career where I played doubles, and I had these unbelievable hands. Anyway, so as a family, we played my sister, she was my idol. And she was a state championship, Michigan State Championship and I thought, wow, I think I can do that. I want to do that. And I started to compete. And really, the rest is history, fell in love with the competitive aspect of the sport where you have this platform to figure out okay, you're trying to learn these skills. Now you have an opportunity to see whether you actually mastered them or not. And I did it in a way that wasn't judgmental was just being inquisitive. Okay, my forehand. I worked on it a bunch this week. Okay, didn't show up in the match, which means I have a lot to do. So I saw competition is friend to learning. I at 11 years old. My parents are from Jamaica. And it's a tradition to send your kids to boarding school. So that's what I did. My mom sent me to a British boarding school actually overseas in Switzerland at 11 years old. I was fortunate enough to have gone with a tennis coach. So I was able to play tennis every day. So I continued my love for tennis, but in a very different way than most kids. You know, I wasn't playing all the USTA events just wrapped around the country. I just got to play and explore in Europe while having a brick and mortar schooling system. I had a I had a pretty robust childhood in terms of just not tennis. So I skied. I did track and field that play basketball so multi sport athlete, but tennis was always there and always really my main love at 16. I thought, you know, I feel like I could probably get a lot better at this if I focused on it. So I begged my mother I said, Mom, I want to move to Florida. And she said, You're mad. I said, maybe, but just let me try. So I got on the phone, and I called Evert's. And I said, Hey, do Do you have any base for for tents? Bear? And they're like, Who is this? Why are you calling me? And I said, No, no, my mom said fine, whatever. She just said me take care of it. They're totally mystified, didn't go on a visit. I just gave him my mom's credit card in Boca Raton for two years. And that was a really interesting experience. Yeah, that was kind of my first time at being a tennis only person. And I gotta say, for the first couple of months, I really didn't enjoy it,

Daniel Kiernan  05:53

Because it took over your mind completely? Do you think that because I have a bit of a theory that the first time that people go full time playing tennis, and it's their absolute focus, it can be a little bit all encompassing, and sometimes a little bit challenging that we don't have other things to take our mind away? If we've had a bad session? Was it for that reason? Or what was it that you didn't enjoy about it?

Megan Moulton Levy  06:17

I think it's for that reason, you know, we're multifaceted human beings. We're not one or the other. Were Yeah, we were as a tennis player. I'm also many other things. So I have never done well when all of my eggs are in one basket. But I think for the first time, all of my eggs were one basket, and it was really overwhelming to me.

Daniel Kiernan  06:38

Yeah, that and that's the you've articulated better than myself, but that's exactly what I was kind of trying to say. A lot of people under appreciate that actually, are you play more tennis, you must be better, you know, but it doesn't there's a there's a sweet spot in there somewhere isn't there are different stages of your life as well.

06:57

Absolutely. In my current job and world, you know, I manage the tennis operations at Junior Tennis champions center, JTCC, at College Park, Maryland. And when I have these intake meetings with the parents, and there's, I want my kid to play full time. And I, I tell them, I say full disclaimer. This is not for everyone. It takes an incredibly mature, well balanced human being who has good perspective and can just place things in the right category and not get too enveloped in

Daniel Kiernan  07:30

this one question that was jumped into my mind as you were talking back. And because there's there is a there is a typical, there is a typical pattern that I see when I speak to people and tennis doesn't seem to be a sport that people randomly get into what I mean by that is there tends to be a parent or a tennis club or siblings or you know, something that it happens in that way. But your dad ran in the Olympics, I believe. Yes, you did in 1972, in Munich as a 100 meter sprinter. You mentioned that track and field was something you did. And we tend we tend to you know, the apple doesn't fall that far from the tree. So we tend to follow parents to a degree. What was it that got you into tennis more than maybe pursuing a track and field career?

Megan Moulton Levy  08:27

There's so many challenges when you're playing tennis, your track and field? Yes, there. It's a it's a part of the reason why I love skiing as well. It's so simple, right? The gun goes off, and you just take off now the complexity, the chance like this, of tennis is what I really enjoyed. I enjoyed the intellectual aspect of the sport that you don't get when you do something like track and field or, or ski for example.

Daniel Kiernan  08:53

And and you mentioned about being vertically challenged. Now I'm pleased you mentioned it because I don't certainly don't well, it's not something that but I think it is it is a topic that I think is a nice conversation because you also reached the top 50 in the world in doubles and 230 or so in single so at a six time all American you know if anyone that doesn't know American University, that means your bloody good. So you've had a you've had a really good strong tennis player in Korea at again by foot we never quite know how which which way it goes in certain

Megan Moulton Levy  09:33

Officially under and I'm only telling you,

Daniel Kiernan  09:37

Okay, so that is that is also in a sport that is talked about as you need to be tall and it's a tall person sport and we've got Maria Sharapova coming in at six foot two and then we've got, you know, all of the men male players that seemed to be on a six foot five nowadays, how were you able I guess my question is not just As simple as how were you able to compete but more in a world where normality was to be taller in the sport? And almost if you're not, you can't do it? How did you overcome the mental challenge and almost belief system of that?

10:15

I have never seen myself as less than for any reason. Certainly, I don't even know if I realized that I'm short, you know, until people I see the world in terms of possibilities. And, and really, it's my own personal journey with whatever's going on. Nobody can define my level of success where I'm going to get it's really in attendance. It's on my racquet. I'm the one who has to be out there deciding what shots I'm going to hit, or how much effort I'm going to put in. So really, this is the thing that I love about tennis, separate to a team sport, because

Daniel Kiernan  10:52

That's incredible though, you're saying that as a mature adult now, but I guess my question is more about getting into the headspace of a junior in it. But it seems already you've said two or three things that I've gone oh my goodness, you sounded like a mature youngster, it seems like you were years years ahead of yourself in in some of those thought processes.

11:14

In part, this is just from the My familial culture, this is how we are wired. You know, I mentioned we're, we're a, I've had the Jamaican upbringing, which is very strong, very disciplined. And, you know, your mind is your powerful tool, right. And that's how I've been raised. But I think my love for tennis just didn't allow me to see anything else I was so obsessed, and so interested in how I could improve that all those other things didn't really matter to me, because at the end of the day, I had an opportunity to wake up and practice and get a little bit better at the skill and then play a match to see I mean, I love competing, and love just seeing, first of all, how I could annoy the person on the other side of the net. So some of that, again, relieved the self pressure, and made it about that made it about this dance that I was doing with another person and how we could engage and entertain ourselves really,

Daniel Kiernan  12:07

How have you been able to take that same mentality into the next stages of your life as well?

12:14

you know that it's been a little bit more complex, if I'm being totally honest. The singular pursuit of tennis and improving maximizing, mastering as much as as well as I could tennis was was so clear to me now, so many other things to consider. It's become a lot less clear. Right. So I'm, I'm eight years out from competing. And it feels like just now settling into the uncertainty of life. Yeah. So it, it definitely translated. I stopped playing, I became coach, I started managing the facility people program. So I think from a discipline standpoint and achieving and improving it, it's correlated, but just personal focus. It's not, it's not quite the same without that singular goal to achieve.

Daniel Kiernan  13:08

Do you look back at your playing career as successful?

13:13

Do I look back at my playing career as succesful? Yes. And the reason why I say yes, is I certainly didn't think I was going to achieve what I achieved. No way. I mean, I knew it was possible, but I wasn't going into it. This is what I want. Now, it happened, you know, you set small goals, and you achieve them. And then all of a sudden, you look back into your top 50 in the world and others are traveling around the world played played all the grand slams. So yes, I totally think it was a success monetarily? Absolutely not. It was a complete business flop failure. That's okay.

Daniel Kiernan  13:48

But is that that also depends on the range. And the amount of time that we measured that over as well, I guess, because it was, I guess a loss leader is maybe a better way to look at it, you know that the experiences that you've had doing that might not have made you the financial gains in those moments. However, that investment I would imagine now over the last eight years, and as you move forward, you can do return on that investment of your playing career,

14:19

the unintended unintended impact or consequences of me pursuing that and unintended that has a negative connotation, but I mean this in a positive way that my family and I would joke about it all the time. Tennis is the the gift that keeps giving. And not just to me, our family, and I'm so grateful that I was able to achieve that level of success. Although if it were a business it would have failed, like I said, but it's blossomed into something so much cooler than I am.

Daniel Kiernan  14:47

When you look back at that period. Do you harbor any regrets? I guess here's my first question. And and the second part to that as if you were to do it again. What piece of advice would you give to yourself, say 18 year old Megan, that would maybe help you along that journey as well?

15:06

Why are you asking me such tough questions?

Daniel Kiernan  15:10

Because I can tell that you have good answers in there?

15:14

Um, yes, I do. I do harbor regrets. I really wish I had paid more attention to my studies, I was so focused on this personal pursuit of tennis. And I, and I don't mean that from the only thing I wanted to do was become a professional tennis player. No, because that was not in my mind, the only thing I wanted to do was get as great as I could. And that took all of my energy. Now, I wish when I was in college, I had explored pursued the other aspects of me as a person, because I love learning, as you can see through how I talk about tennis, but I, I love business. Right. And I wish I had done in in started done in business administration degree. I wish I had figured out change management. You know, I wish I'd figure out all these things that I now am learning about myself that I love. And I feel like I missed an opportunity there because I was so focused on learning. Myself through tennis,

Daniel Kiernan  16:14

It would be interesting. If you done that, if you then had the regret that you didn't throw yourself at tennis. Yeah, that's true. That's the beauty of life, isn't it? I think we can that question why I like asking people that question is, I think we can all have periods of our life where potentially the grass could have been greener on the other side, you know, and that's, I think that's the way that the human human brain works. But you're not getting away with the second part. Because if you were to now give 18 year old Megan, that bit of advice, what would that advice be?

16:51

What, what I would say to myself is invest in yourself fully, not just one aspect of yourself. But in the whole, but it's very hard to ask an 18 year old to understand what that means, right? I think I would have said, explore your, your academic mind as well. You know, pay, pay attention, figure out what you like, in that aspect of your life.

Daniel Kiernan  17:14

That takes me into a quote. So if we talk about your life, after playing tennis, I have a quarter, I believe this is a quote from you, if you if someone's pretending to be you on the internet and writing these quotes, I apologize. But the place that tennis has in my life is not just about pursuing it at a professional level, it really was as a platform or a vehicle of expression. And our kids have an opportunity to do that here. And now as the General Manager of player development, as you've said it Junior Tennis Champion center, you are in a position to to nurture this, you know, these learnings that you've had. So so how are you going about that? I guess?

18:00

Oh I do it on a daily basis. You know, thinking about tennis is a vehicle for creative expression. How kids are one plays tennis, there's no right, one way to play, right. So I think when I talk about creative, it is really exploring all aspects of yourself all aspects of your decision making, and the kids how our training is formed. It forces them to do that, in my conversation, some of the kids that come into my office, what are you talking about woman? Because I because I speak in these kinds of big concepts, you know, there are no absolutes and they look at me like, what, what does that mean? Meaning there's no right or wrong answers. So in my in the way that I converse with the kids in the way that I interact with them, I think that message comes through, you know, and I asked them really to do exactly what I told my 18 year old self to do, which is you are not just a tennis player, you are a tennis player, who also love to play piano who also really like engineering, and you have to make sure that you nurture all aspects of yourself and not just this one they spent so many years and and and hours pursuing because at some point that does come to an end and you want to be a whole person.

Daniel Kiernan  19:24

Yeah. And I think it's a much healthier way to live life, isn't it right if you those that don't have that and they've got only tennis, and and their only identity in this world is as a tennis player, you pull that rug, either end of career or injury end of career or just not good enough. There's some pretty dark places you can end up if you don't have something else in your life.

19:51

Yep. But I think that our kids at GTCC it's a really special place. The kids have to do volunteering We have a robust wheelchair program and Special Olympics programs. So they're constantly interacting with different types of people, they're forced to do something outside of just themselves and the pursuit of, of their excellence, they have to give back. And so by nature, by design of the organization, these kids are their whole kids, you know, they are good kids, they, they're seeing people with disabilities and understanding that there's possibilities for them. So they're seeing others and realizing that they can help, and that there's good and everyone and opportunities for everyone,

Daniel Kiernan  20:34

How have you been able to, because we talk about culture, and you know, it's a buzzword, but we talk about culture. And certainly I'm, I'm a believer of this, that your culture is only as strong as your weakest person. So So it's one thing as I sit here talking to you, and I can feel your energy and your passion and your your, your love for what you're doing coming through very clearly, and those little conversations, but but the challenge in service provision roles, is the ability to scale that message in on that ability to, to nurture that in a scalable way, as well. So how have you gone about creating that culture? at JTCC?

Megan Moulton Levy  21:21

It's a great question. And one that I asked myself every day, and something that we look at his organization every day, and it really comes down to, in my opinion, through things consistency, shared values, and a commitment to those values. And just being honest, you know, having honest dialogue if someone isn't displaying, because someone could say that they commit to something all day long, right, but when their actions are speaking louder than their words, having the fortitude having the strength, the courage to have those very difficult conversations that this isn't in line with our values and our mission and what we're trying to accomplish, and you need to make a decision whether this is this is the place for you or not. And I'm really talking more so about the coaching staff, this also goes to really the players as well, the families, not everyone believes in what we're trying to accomplish. It's very different than many other training centers around the world, because who do you know, then that the kids have to volunteer are required to volunteer X amount of hours as part of the program?

Daniel Kiernan  22:31

Yeah, it's a unique situation for sure.

22:35

So it's not for everyone, and just having those upfront conversations, and this may not be for you. And that's okay, there's probably another place down the road, it might be for you, but it's not here. And this is, this is what we're committed to.

Daniel Kiernan  22:49

And who sets the values is that something that you've set is that a collective setting of values,

22:56

Many of these things were established the organization's 20, we're celebrating our 25th. And I've only been here for eight. So I certainly cannot take credit for setting these values. This is how the it was set up. Right. Mentoring, and volunteering. Very important. I think where I can take some credit is making sure there's a true because you, you could say that, but if people aren't actually doing it, what are what are the ramifications? Are there any are there any consequences. So where I can say that I've contributed to it is really making sure that there's an adherence and a commitment from the coaching staff from from the whole organization, each member of the staff, we also have to volunteer, we got to get back, we got to go into the city and, and Coach kids tennis who don't have the means to be able to play we we to have to be the example that we want to see.

Daniel Kiernan  23:50

Yeah, and with with that role modeling, you know, and again, everything that I've read up on yourself, you know, is you have that role model of an Olympian, as a father, who set those standards for you, you know, and your role model is, is is a really crucial thing. I've also read the, you know, Francis TFO, Denis Kudla, spend time training at GTCC. So, the kids get to see those people how, how important is role modeling in in setting the standards of what is required for you. Yeah,

Megan Moulton Levy  24:27

I mean, you mentioned my father. Absolutely. But I had as a female, you know, I think, and I come from a family and he's the only male and right. I have three sisters. My mom has three sisters. So she's one of the four really, if I'm being totally honest. It is those women who are business leaders, they wake up every day, they serve their community, and they run these amazing businesses and that's what I that's what I've Smallman. So that's kind of where my drive and discipline comes out. As it relates to the kids at College Park and being having access to it's not just Francis, it's Haley Baptists is Robin gunnery. I mean, there's such a storied history of high achieving professional tennis players that have come out of GTCC. And the kids don't even realize what they have access to. Yeah, I mean, one day, last summer, there was a special USDA foundation event and Francis was there, we sent out an email, Hey, guys come out. He's gonna be here special day, one of the most intriguing things was one of the parents and now we'll see him next week. So he's, he's such a part, Francis, I'm talking about the killer, is there so much, he's such a part of the community that the kids almost feel like he's one, he's a part of it. And I think that that's an invaluable experience for those children. They are, they're used to seeing that level of excellence, they can see that that's possible. Someone, someone like us has achieved that out of this organization. And so that belief, you're talking about me being sure you didn't say it, but I said it. And that belief that is required. I think the kids get a lot from seeing those top professionals train there day in and day out and build that they came to the same situation that they have, and they were able to achieve so much.

Daniel Kiernan  26:18

If you listen to the podcast on a regular basis, you'll also know that I've run the SotoTennis academy in the south of Spain. And we have a very special invitation for competition level tennis players to come and train with us this summer. And as a little thank you for listening to Control the Controllables we're offering a 10% discount of all training weeks during the summer of 2024. Now what better way to treat you, your family and friends been getting the chance to train alongside our academy players on the European red clay courts and the American hard courts. While basking in the sun of the beautiful Sotogrande at SotoTennis academy. If you're seeking a personalized training program, alongside a family friendly holiday in stunning settings, our academy training weeks offer the perfect blend of sport and relaxation. And who knows, as a little added bonus, you might get to meet the CTC team, and find out just how the podcast is made. Reach out to us via email at info@sototennis.com or connect with us on social media for more details. And don't forget to quote your discount code summer 24. We hope to see you soon. But now let's get back to today's episode.  And how do we because we've actually at the sort of TELUS Academy in Spain we've we've just run a female empowerment in sport campaign and it's been amazing actually, it just gets speaking to so many brilliant, amazing women in sports, you know, specifically in Tennessee, including yourself and what what comes through very clearly speaking to you is, is that feeling of empowerment, that feeling of, you know, you know, where? Yeah, you know, absolutely and, and we need more of that in the world of tennis, because I actually spoke to somebody last week who she's quite a big name in the UK, in terms of what she's done in this space in this area. She's very much championed and driven a lot around Netflix shows, books, podcasts, you know, she's called Sue Amstutz. And she's got an MBE in the UK. And we had it we had a we had a brilliant conversation. And she was talking about how actually and it's true tennis is ahead of the times compared to most sports. However, in our world of of tennis, it when we when we delve into it, it's clear that it's not it's not where we where we want it to be, you know, so having that at the forefront of all of our minds, but you as you as somebody who is it was driving that forward in your in your position. I know you also are the board of directors at the USTA what what's been done, what's been done for us to create these opportunities and empower females in the sport of tennis for for them to know that absolutely this is a sport to go and get and make your place in it and and not be pushed to the back like has happened in many sports and including tennis over the years.

29:37

Well, I think visibility is really important. There's a high percentage of the board who are female and you know, people see this I don't even know sometimes it requires a lot of activation and conversation. Just merely seeing that composition of the board. give someone the confidence that they can achieve to I can tell you You being on the board and walking around the USTA at the US Open and seeing how many female leaders are in C suite positions of the USTA, it has been extremely impactful in my life. I've known that word for three years. And this experience has been transformative. And in knowing that one I add value, two, it's possible for me to do this, I see the other people who are in the room, and I'm thinking, why not me. And also, you know, I said, it doesn't require conversations, but it does. It requires people who are in a position like myself, really reaching extending our reach. And, and telling people I mean, one of the duties that I have on the board is to get more high level athletes with volunteering for the USDA. And you'd be amazed at some of the conversations that a lot for players don't understand how much value they bring to the table, how that experience really helped to say it again, running your own business, and being your own advocate having to do all these different things. Those skills are so translatable to many different things. So in having these conversations, you really, you you let someone see, well, it's possible by them talking to me, knowing that I'm doing it, they say, Okay, so maybe I can do it too. And it gets the wheels turning, and you inspire people to go out and try to submit your application, see what happens? What, for whatever, it doesn't matter what, but just do it?

Daniel Kiernan  31:35

And what about, you're talking about senior positions there, what I see, and I'm fortunate to be traveling around right now, on the WTA Tour I'm doing to quite a few weeks, obviously been at the Grand Slams has been at the combined events, as well, I was traveling with ATP players a couple of years before, we don't see very many female coaches on the tour. And, and also, I'm also in a position where I I run an International Tennis Academy, and I don't get many female coaches that apply for jobs, either.

Megan Moulton Levy  32:11

Why do you think that is?

Daniel Kiernan  32:12

I don't know. I think I mean, I think relocation is, is big in coming to somewhere like Spain, you know, that we don't really have a localized workforce, you know, and so, so I think I think relocation of that role, potentially, if we, if we're even brutally honest, that even if I take my I'm very happily married, we fall into those roles at times that, you know, my wife, Vicki, is taking more care of the kids than myself, you know, for various reasons. So I think there is maybe that natural attachment there that makes it a bit more challenging. That would be that would be my number one reason why I believe I see that in more traveling, because working at the academy, or traveling on the tour, or more travel necessity roles. So that would be my thought process. What about yourself,

33:11

Look, I too am happily married, I have two little kids. My spouse is a female. And we fall into very traditional roles too, heterosexual traditional roles, right? Where I work all the time, and I barely even see my kids. And that's hard. And I can tell you honestly, it's taking a toll on me right now. It's taking a toll on my family. And I'm sure that this is the case for males as well. But as a female, it's like, Whoa, I want to be there with my kids. This career is it's important. It's wonderful. It's affording us all sorts of opportunities. But at the end of the day, family is the most important. It's the most important thing. So I think many women grapple with that. Do I spend time nurturing my own family? Or do I spend time nurturing a career and the hours of tennis coaching, you know, are are not necessarily conducive to also having a family. So I think that there are challenges that can be overcome. Lori Richards who's the USTA National Coach, she said to me at a national tournament last summer, she said, you know, tennis is the greatest sport because you can do it part time. And when they then then your career takes off when they're when they're in high school and they don't need as much from you then that's the time to kind of pivot and revisit and really nurture your own career within tennis as a coach. And that was something that was really eye opening to me and has been very thought provoking because yeah, this this can this can be here forever. My tennis coaching career can be here forever. It may have to take on a different form and my kids are little and I think the industry has to be okay with that. And I have to be okay.

Daniel Kiernan  34:59

Yeah. I think very well put, but I think I think that's an important subject for people to talk about and for people to hear as well, because it's and I like what you say there about. The industry needs to be okay with it. And you do. Because there is this expectation, I think in the industry that are well, you can't be a coach because you can't dedicate all those hours in all was written off. And you know, I think we yeah, we do, we need to get into that place where anything, anything is possible and the ability to, to manage the necessities in life and just the way that the way that life is is is something that we need to all attack as as an industry as well. On those things that within your work with the USTA the top of the agenda and high up on the agenda are those were down,

35:54

100% top of the agenda. I love coaching boys that love, I think it's so it's so different. So the world is really missing out by not having female coaches, because we have a unique perspective, we can be lovingly stern in a way that men can't be I think both boys and girls benefit from so I think it's really important to have more female voices on the court coaching kids. So it is one of the priorities for the USTA to make sure that there's a healthy pipeline of strong female coaches in the industry.

Daniel Kiernan  36:32

But do you see progression?

36:33

Yeah, I think so. I think so I think the other thing the industry needs to be OK with is people coming in and out of industry, I was talking to with a PTM, professional tennis management in the country. And I was speaking to some of the program leaders a few weeks ago. And I asked him, What is the average amount of time that these coaches state that these people stay in coaching after they graduate, and this is female and male, and he said five years, that was astounding to me, however, it is what it is. So if if we understand the waves of coaching cycles and lives, then we can activate people at different times of their lives, it may be five years at the start of their career, and they may come back to it in 20 years. So we need to understand these data points and these flows of work life that don't know the worth

Daniel Kiernan  37:22

Is that it almost it feels to me that as an industry, we can be quite lazy. And again, it goes back to visibility again, you know, a, it feels like we lose a relevance very quickly. And and if you if you are at certain events, or you are at a certain level for a time period, you kind of automatically get a relevance and you get a you get a respect, which, which actually isn't that I'm I'm a big believer that players make coaches, you know, and it's, it's, you know, as much as, as much as coaches make players, and people ended up like the line themselves up position themselves with a certain player because of the relevance and the respect that then comes out of that, that what you're seeing there about us having the flexibility, the adaptability and that work flow of okay, people are gonna have different times where they're in that position. The challenge is not to be forgotten in that period. And I remember my coach, he's still my tennis coach, and he coached me from the age of eight, and he's still someone I can call up and I would see it as he was my coach, I remember him saying a very similar thing to me. And I kind of just brushed it off because I was really young at the time. But he said related to age, and that were quite an ageist industry, as well. And it's like that once you get to a certain age, you're almost not deemed relevant again. You know, and I guess there's a lot of different sub sections of this of this discussion. But it's again, I believe it's a very important discussion to be having, without a doubt.

Megan Moulton Levy  39:06

I mean, diversity of thought, diversity of experience is really important. I can tell you, some of the most interesting coaches we've had at GTCC don't have much of a tennis history. In terms of right, so you know, we talked earlier about the creativity, that using tennis as as a vehicle for creative expression, and that goes to the industry leaders as well. We got to think outside of the box, we have to think of things totally differently. And that's kind of why I'm so excited about this team of people who come together to create Atlas tennis because we are thinking outside the box. It is all about it's not about everyone in the industry is a guy want to create the best player in the world and this is what is the only thing to the exclusion of everything else. And our philosophy is I don't care what level of player you are. You have Something to learn through the sport you have, you can go and experience the world while being grounded in an activity, right? So you're just not out there found. It gives you something to pursue something to master. But it also gives you the opportunity to bring in all of these different cultures and decide what you're going to keep and what you're going to discard. And how interacting with these cultures through tenants is going to shape who you are

Daniel Kiernan  40:29

very good. And that's yeah, Eric. Eric Butorac is someone you working with on this. Who's the he's been on the podcast, Eric, and he the tournament director of the US Open, give us a little overview of Atlas tennis. And I know you've you've just described it very nicely there. But what is it that you guys are trying to create? Where did the idea come from? And what can we expect to see in the world of tennis from what you guys are creating,

Megan Moulton Levy  40:59

it really doesn't matter where the kids are, we want to, we're starting with kids in the US, we're taking them on trips to Europe, 321 to 28 day trips, in your now. There'd be practices, and competition. And so everything is really centered around pursuing excellence in tennis. So you have this opportunity to really get better at that sport and see, you know, test your ability, right. But it's coupled with seeing the world. So to be in places like Soto tennis academy, right? To be in places like France and Spain, and Italy, and there's a trip going to Switzerland. So the most iconic places in the world, right are in Europe, you get to go practice, and then go see the Eiffel Tower. Right? There's, there are very many opportunities for these kids to explore who they are as people through tennis, and traveling, building relationships, understanding the challenges, you can't speak the language, okay, you're gonna have to figure out some sort of way to communicate. And this is a skill that will show up in people's lives forever. Because communication to me is the most important thing, not being able to speak the same language really gives you some knowledge of, okay, you got to think creatively about how you're going across the message that you want to share. So there's so many hidden skills that are going to be absorbed learn through these experiences, but we want to share the world with these kids through tennis. Amazing.

Daniel Kiernan  42:32

Now, Megan, I was given a very, very clear, hard finish time by you at the start, so I can't let you go without they'll quick fire round. So are you ready?

Megan Moulton Levy  42:44

I guess I guess I am

Daniel Kiernan  42:47

served or returned. Neither. You can't volley return. Serve serves kind of a volley. Yeah. forehand or backhand. Backhand. Roger or refer. Roger, Serena or Venus.

Megan Moulton Levy  43:07

So while that's a hard one, you

Daniel Kiernan  43:12

know, sitting on fences around Serena. Net codes or not college rules or pro rules,

Megan Moulton Levy  43:20

no neck cord. Let's

Daniel Kiernan  43:21

keep it exciting. singles or doubles. Singles. Favorite Grand Slam

Megan Moulton Levy  43:27

Ozzy open. Just kidding us open. I can't use a medical

Daniel Kiernan  43:32

timeout or not never one rule change you would have in tennis.

Megan Moulton Levy  43:38

Fans can come and go as they please.

Daniel Kiernan  43:40

What does control the controllables mean to you?

Megan Moulton Levy  43:44

It means you can only control what you can control. So discard the rest.

Daniel Kiernan  43:48

Who was your idol growing up?

Megan Moulton Levy  43:50

Andre Agassi.

Daniel Kiernan  43:51

Who should our next guest be on control the controllables?

Megan Moulton Levy  43:55

What a question? I would say. It can't be but this is a shout out to my nd brandy who was recently passed away passed away. Such an iconic man who transformed so many people's lives. And

Daniel Kiernan  44:11

Go Tigers. I'm an LSU Tiger. And I know Andy was and he was there recently. So lovely words to have for Andy at the end. Megan, you have been a star and absolute star loved having you on. I know you're very busy woman you've got lots to do. So you head off. But just a big thank you on behalf of me and everybody that listens to control the controllables Thank you. Thank you. So there you have it. What a what a brilliant, brilliant woman. Someone who it was only a few a few weeks ago that we did two or three episodes on empowering women in sport and we did have some fantastic guests and if you want to go back and listen to those then please do we will put those episodes in the show. thoughts? And absolutely, Megan comes under that as well. You know, we need these role models in our sport, you know, powerful women who have who have gone and done it. Yeah, they've they've shown that there is a road there is a path for women in sport that there is a path for women in tennis and there absolutely is. And for her to open open those doors as well. And showcase we talked about it at the start of the show, someone at four foot 11 that dealing with that adversity in a sport that's kind of full of giants, right? We get told you can't be a tennis player, unless you are this. And we need to change that mindset. You know, there's I can't, I can't I can't. We've always heard us talking about if you could see it, you could be it. So having these role models, but having someone that is going out there and they're doing it on a daily basis, changing people's lives. I certainly left that conversation feeling feeling very inspired, and someone to aspire to be more like so a big thank you to you, Megan, for that. And I also want to mention a good friend of mine, Eric Buda rock, who is the tournament director at the US Open, you know himself and Megan and others are working very closely together with the Atlas tennis camps as they're looking to showcase. What tennis is about, you know of anyone heard Eric boot rack, and again, we will leave that episode in the show notes. You know, Eric Bergerac was someone who was top 10 in the world. He's now the tournament director of one of the biggest tournaments in the world. But it's still about in this sport, giving people experiences, the chances to travel the world to meet new friends. These are all the incredible, incredible things that come with our sport that we need, we need to continue educating that far and wide. Now, as for myself, I have made it to the UK here now for the grass court season. It was bloody freezing today in Birmingham, but looking forward to hopefully bobbing it. Some of you you know, I wouldn't be in Edgbaston this week East born and then Wimbledon. As I continued the exciting journey with Gabby Dombroski and Aaron Routledge and a big shout out to Aaron this weekend as she moved to world number two, a quite a quite incredible achievement. And we haven't stopped there, you know, Gabby and Aaron, continuing to rise up the rankings. But more than that, they're putting it in every day, to become better tennis players to become better human beings. And I'm excited for what the next few weeks holds. And I'm looking forward to see some of you out here at the grass courts and Edgbaston, Eastbourne and Wimbledon but we will be having a couple of more conversations whilst we're over here, and lots more podcasts coming your way. So until the next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are Control the Controllables