US Open 2023 Preview

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Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Episode 201 of Control the Controllables and today is our US Open 2023 preview and delighted to welcome back. Gabby dobrowski former Wimbledon finalist doubles. US Open semifinalist in 2022 and career high of number four in the world. And then Freddie Nielsen, the 2012 Wimbledon men's doubles champion. Freddie now is the Davis Cup captain for Denmark. And my final panelist today is Kieran Vorster, the fitness coach currently to Dan Evans, who spent time with Tim Henman, Liam Broady, Wayne Ferreira and many others over the years, and we're going to look into the stories, the potential winners, the dark horses those to look out for in Flushing Meadows this year. It's an exciting event coming up I think everyone is looking forward to is it going to be Novak against Carlos again, after that amazing final in Cincinnati? And can anybody be Iga and she's going for her fourth Grand Slam, lots of storylines that are going to unravel over the next couple of weeks in the final Grand Slam of 2023. But first, here is our US Open panelists. So our US Open panel 2023 A big welcome. How are you all doing?

Freddie Nielsen  01:40

Great. Thanks.

Gaby Dabrowski  01:41

Good. Thank you.

Daniel Kiernan  01:42

It's good to have you guys on a bit of a smaller group today and I know we got Kieran Vorster you will hear him in a few minutes as he as he jumps on up. You always know when Kieran Vorster has arrived. And lots lots of us to talk about the last Grand Slam of the year. New York $20 million of prize money up for grabs lots of lots of ATP WTA points and so many stories that are going to be told over the next couple of weeks in New York. But I think a starting point, Gabby, and I'm gonna come to you first because I know you experienced a little bit of this in Cincinnati last week, it's been the talk of the town out there on the tour, especially the WTA tour over the last over the last few weeks is around the scheduling it's become quite high profile, I think they've come out and said in New York, they won't be starting at 6pm. Even though the night session, even though that was one solution. That was suggested. I think they said that seven o'clock is the earliest that the New Yorkers can get they're coming from coming from work. And obviously, when you've got a couple of rounds of matches, sometimes three rounds of matches from that time, we're starting to talk about two o'clock, three o'clock in the morning finishes. So from your point of view, what do you what do you make of the late finishes?

Gaby Dabrowski  03:07

I think when you have several late finishes in a row, it's very tough. In particular, if you're then scheduled a day match at some point later in the tournament. That's a really tough transition. I think we know that sleep is the best recovery. And so when you have many, many late night finishes, over time, your body just gets to rundown to recover. And having experienced that a little bit in Montreal and in Cincinnati back to back. I mean, I'm definitely feeling that. And that's, that's women's doubles, and four matches. So I can't even imagine full singles matches with full scoring and multiple over several weeks. So I think where we run into issues is, what do we do about it, and who's going to take responsibility and accountability for the decision making. So I've spoken to a lot of the players, and the majority of the girls, at least they would prefer a cut off point to where you pick a reasonable time, and you don't play past that time. And that way, you know that you can have a full night's rest, even if potentially the next day you have two matches. I think when you just run into the evening and late night too many times in a row it is really tough on the body. It's tough on the mind. I think it's not great for fans to be there at one to 3am I mean we saw that with Rybakina. And Kasatkina in Montreal and it was just outrageous to have them finishing at three something AM and to come back and play the next day. So I'd be interested what the guys prefer. If they want to just play into the night or if they would rather have a cut off point and then come back and potentially play two the next day. But so far the majority of feedback on the women's side has been to make their to have a cut off point.

Daniel Kiernan  05:05

And I think I think on that note as well, I think that the best point for me that you made there was around the consistency of it. So I think it was in Australian Open this year that Novak played in every night session from from his first round all the way through to the final. And we're not talking about two o'clock in the morning, but we're talking he was playing at 8pm 9pm 10pm. So I guess he just adjusted his clock. And his times to that, you know, he probably never turned up on site before five o'clock, and just moved it when you start moving the dial. Or the bigger problem which came for you last week, Abby was when you're not communicated clearly to on it as well. You know, that the big stars will tend to be told the times that they're playing and I think certainly the Alcarazes and Djokovices probably quite like it. And they're almost told that's what they're gonna have. And then they can they can settle into it. I know that Iga has been very vocal on it and said she prefer to play on a smaller court but earlier in the day, so I'm not sure it's the best for for anybody. But Freddie, the night match US Open is is a pretty special event.

Freddie Nielsen  06:24

It's electric, the crowd and the arena is really unique, because they really, they go to be entertained, and they want to be part of the entertainment. And I'm, I'm actually a little bit undecided on this. Because I completely agree with everything you say from from the player's point of view, there's no way this is good. But at the same time, there must be a reason for it. Right? So if it's generates more revenue, or whatever,

Daniel Kiernan  06:51

Well, tickets to ticket sales in that you got you have a day ticket and a night ticket. So that's going to generate more TV rights. Yeah, I would

Freddie Nielsen  06:59

definitely. But I'm in for changing from six to seven, for example. Okay. And in my opinion, I'm not opinion, but in my experience, it seems like from all the player meetings I've been in and talking to the one thing that the players are very occupied by getting more money, more money their way. So I think as long as there's a windfall, then they're willing to go with everything. So there must be some reason why the tournaments do it, because it obviously I don't think they want tournaments in the to be played at three, four in the morning. But if it if it is better, if TV wants it, it gets more generate generates more money, and it goes back to the players, then maybe it's a good thing. And I don't think it's, it's great for the players, I wouldn't want to play as well. But just to see it from the big picture and stuff. I'm not really decided on it. And also, sometimes with the night session matches, it's pretty fun, from a fans point of view to wake up. If it's, if it's a match in Australia, or if it's a mansion in US Open, you can watch the end up in the morning and wake up to the drama that's that has created as a memorable matches as well. So so I can see both both sides of the coin.

Daniel Kiernan  08:17

I'm gonna I'm going to summarize that and conclude that with I like the cut off point, nobody wants to watch tennis on TV after midnight. And then

Freddie Nielsen  08:29

points are finishing or starting. Because if it's the finishing time, are you gonna go out and stop a match in the middle and then come back? People don't like that when it rains, They don't like it when it's dark. So are you gonna add another factor in?

Daniel Kiernan  08:43

I think starting probably, you know, I think you don't start a match. I guess a men's match. Maybe you don't start after 8.30, 9 o'clock.

Freddie Nielsen  08:54

What have you started at 7 and it rains?

Daniel Kiernan  08:56

Yeah, there's not there's, there's lots of

Freddie Nielsen  08:59

Loopholes for everything, there's no perfect. That's for sure.

Gaby Dabrowski  09:02

I think then this would be an opportunity for the tournaments to invest in a roof over at least one court. So then at least you have that guaranteed. I mean, because that's another thing about Australia, they have that French has that Wimbledon has that US Open has that only a few of the other tournaments might have like some kind of canopy I know Brisbane has something but like a select few have that ability of aside from obviously the indoor tournaments like fully indoor, but I think that is worth I don't know, mentioning because we're talking about this all the time now. And the thing is like, okay, cutoff point cut off point, but if we had a roof, and a lot more of the events, I would like to know how much of a loss that would be for the tournaments and for how long but in the long run, it would help player health and I feel like that's really not taken into consideration that much?

Daniel Kiernan  10:01

Well, it's interesting because I had a conversation last week in Cincinnati. And by the way, for me, that's one of the best tournaments I've ever been to, in terms of the friendliness of all the staff, it felt like, it was quite a special event for the area, you know, it really felt like everyone was coming together. And everyone I spoke to said how much they just love having the event and how excited but a couple of them actually voiced to me that they were worried because there's talk that that's going to move to Charleston. And they're talking about Charleston building a $400 million complex to try and house an event, an event like that. And they, that what they were saying was, you know, we desperately don't want to lose it? And also, how long is it going to take to make that money back? You know, like, all of these things, I guess, come, we'll come back to money because players want to be paid more. You know, everyone in the whole ecosystem wants to be paid more. However, there needs to be more money made to pay for the facilities, you know, How do you distribute the right way? So it's, I think it's, it is an interesting one, and it probably opposite a bit of a can of worms, me saying this, but maybe a lot of these things will be solved when the Saudis do eventually come into tennis, which is, which is, let's, let's also not hide from that, you know, they've, they've jumped in very much to football or soccer. They've obviously jumped into into golf. You know, the NexGen finals this year on the ATP is, is being hosted in Saudi, you know, and I don't think that they have any interest in doing things by halfs. You know, I'm not sure the Saudis just want to host an ATP or WTA event, you know, they will, you know, that's, that's not their thing. So just in time Kieron Vorster.

Kieron Vorster  12:02

How you doing, how you doing?

Daniel Kiernan  12:03

Saudi Arabia, when are they going to be taking over tennis Kieron?

Kieron Vorster  12:07

I think sooner rather than later, I've a feeling that there will be stuff happening in the next in the next year or so. I mean, obviously, nobody can compete with them, as you can see, with all the football players migrating over to the Arabian sun. So I, I would say the only thing that Gansey that we had meetings with the Public Investment Fund fund guys, but basically made wanted, wanted to emphasize that they had to respect the traditions of tennis, which again, is sometimes you got to disrupt from within, for everybody sit around the table, LIV Golf didn't respect the traditions of golf, and then obviously forced the hand of the PGA then to come up with the goods. And then obviously, I think the LIV at the end of this year will be the end. And I think something some some funky format is going to come out in tennis before getting everybody around the table.

Daniel Kiernan  13:00

And I wonder, I wonder, Gaby, if if the ATP WTA are ahead of the game on this, is this something that they're able to position themselves? I guess, if you if the PGA golf would go back 12 months, 18 months, I'm sure they might have played this a little bit different. You know, so I wonder if the learning is happening? Or are they too consumed? What's got what with what's going on in their in their own kind of moment?

Gaby Dabrowski  13:28

No, I think they're, they're considering it, I think it would be stupid to not consider it at this point. Because it's kind of too far gone, like you know that they're going to anyway, do something. So why wouldn't you want to partner with them? And I think, from the standpoint of growing the game and trying to leave a lasting positive legacy for women and girls, I think there is an opportunity there, as long as there's proper accountability of what we can get done on the ground, in that country within the culture. I think that's that's somewhere that at least for the WTA, you know, we could have a positive impact. So I think at this point, it's a decision that would need to happen, but it's not happened yet. So I think we're all just kind of waiting to see what the powers that be choose to do.

Kieron Vorster  14:19

I would like to add to that, I actually think that the PTPA may be in talks with them. And I wouldn't surprise me if they announced that they setting up their own tour led by the PTTPA. It wouldn't surprise me at all. And if they were smart, they were smart. They should be doing that because they don't have they don't have a strong following especially on the girls side. I mean, they've probably got 80 guys have signed up to a strong following but it wouldn't surprise me if they are in talks with the public investment fund.

Daniel Kiernan  14:59

This Is this a Vossy inside info?

Kieron Vorster  15:03

possibly? Possibly.

Daniel Kiernan  15:07

Well, we'll have a we'll have a we'll have a beer in New York vase. You can tell me all about it. Yeah, my lips are sealed.

Freddie Nielsen  15:14

Straight out, just dropping bombs on. You

Kieron Vorster  15:19

The bomb, the bomb dropped. I'd say what I didn't do is I didn't drop any bombs on the golf course, a lot. I lost a lot of money to Dan Evans.

Daniel Kiernan  15:26

Not again, not a kid.

Kieron Vorster  15:29

Yeah, no, I got it. I had my pants pulled down royally. And truly.

Daniel Kiernan  15:34

He was he was he was humble enough to let me know that you won a lot of money off from last summer. So maybe this is payback?

Kieron Vorster  15:41

Yeah, it's only a loan. It's a temporary loan.

Daniel Kiernan  15:45

And I'm talking of golf balls and and various sporting balls. The tennis ball. saga goes on. And that's that's one thing. That's not surprised me, I guess. But yeah, maybe it has a little bit been been at these events this year. It's amazing how much tennis players talk about one scheduling. Understandable. But it's like it is hot topic. Like it is real hot topic, and two tennis balls. And you can even guarantee going from court to court. Certainly in the first couple of days, there's lots of moans and groans and looking at the ball and people holding them and trying to get them to bounce straight. And everyone seems to have a comment. And I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say anything positive about them. But obviously the big one for Eddie last year was on the last couple of years at US Open was that the men had had a tennis ball, the Wilson, US Open ball. But but the women had a different ball, which was seen to be much lighter, was seen to you know, fly around a little bit more. I asked a few different people over the last couple of weeks about it on the women's tour. And the majority of them told me they preferred the women's ball, then they do the men's that's a little bit heavier. Not so good. Not so good on your body. But certain top players that maybe suits their game style a little bit more to have the heavier tennis ball. Certainly a certain Polish player was very outspoken about it. Is this this something that you came across when you were playing is it is it's something that seems to be more talked about than ever? is they're not aware that we can get to that there's some level of consistency. So it doesn't have to be such a such a major talking points? Or is it good? Just like different courts, different weather conditions, it's good to have a variable.

Freddie Nielsen  17:49

I definitely think that there's something to be done. So the whole the men play with one ball and the women play with another ball. I never really understood that, as I understand basically only in America was like that. And I do think that that difference was significant. I remember hitting with some of the girls during US Open and just it's a different ballgame. I think also some of the doubles players consider that when signing up for mixed doubles because you play with the mixed the with the women's ball in mixed doubles obviously not anymore. So yeah, that was a huge factor. So So I also know you say some people are very happy that it's or like the old ball. I also know some girls that didn't like the old ball and are happy that it is so as with everything, some people are happy, some people are not. So heavy conditions are good for some, and they're not so good. For others. That's just the name of the game, you can't really avoid that. But I do think it's an interesting point to bring up about the balls because what we know about equipment these days is okay, you have different different contracts with different companies for different balls. I get that. It's super easy to make the same poll and print the different logo and make it a player's ball. They do it with the rackets, they do it with everything. Have one ball for the American swing, Australian swing the clay court swing, swing the grass, the Asian swing, whatever. If you have a contract with pin print pen on it. If you have a contract with Head print Head on, it is super easy. So I think there's definitely something the change of conditions as well as Vossy will probably know more than me is that they change of condition be it surface or climate or balls is one of the biggest reasons for injuries. So this would be one way to at least help the players then and probably wouldn't cost too

Gaby Dabrowski  19:38

much. Um, we've I mean like Council, WTA Council, we've inquired about exactly what you just said about having a consistent ball and just printing whatever logo you want on it. And we were told that that's not possible because of some kind of like copyright situation liability. thing. So

Daniel Kiernan  20:02

You'll with one of those swing ball balls printed with printed with Wilson

Kieron Vorster  20:08

Yes, that's just the WTA takingadvantage of the scent. There's one or two factories that might close. And then same clothes that come up, have a swish on it, or the ID that's on it. It's ridiculous what they say. You can also you can get, you can get a neutral factory and tread threads hit the nail on the head that produces the bowl. And then it just goes the pen goes to technique. powerbridge Dustin Dunlop, it goes goes to Wilson, and they just put their logo on it. They're just trying to get your nose off the scent.

Freddie Nielsen  20:31

And even even the brands that provide the balls they often provide different balls for the tournaments than for the shop. So yeah,

Kieron Vorster  20:50

I mean, it's the most ridiculous thing ever. It's like you've got you've got the man that plays a golf ball. And what does it girls play with a smaller ball? It's ridiculous. A tennis ball's a tennis ball. Let's just get it right.

Daniel Kiernan  21:01

And you touched on you touched on injuries. There Freddie and I'm going to throw this to you Vossy. Because we've we've now talked about the scheduling the late finishes that Rybakina was finishing what two 3am. She She then pulled out second round in Cincinnati. We had Noskova pulling out we had we had Vekic pulling out, you know, there was when you go when you go through the draw, and then on the men's side as well. There was a lot of withdrawals in Cincinnati, Mackenzie McDonald has been pulled out the round before someone pulled out against him. It was and we're talking about a Masters 1000 here, you know, there's there's big points, there's big money on the line, you know, so So Is that is that the people aren't setting their schedules well enough, in terms of playing too many weeks, is that that we need to start adjusting. I saw Mark Kovacs tweeted something the other day Vossy that, you know, more and more it's going to fall, this is going to fall on the trainers, in terms of in terms of how tennis players are being trained, because of the differences of conditions, the differences of tennis balls, the late finishes, where do you stand on that?

Kieron Vorster  22:16

Yes, but the late finishes I think can be avoided. You know, sometimes matches are starting at midday, or you can have some sometimes starting at 1030 or 11am. Some some courts are certainly starting at one. So the problem you've got with all these lays scheduling, it's what's more important TV dictating or player welfare. And so it will come to an head that again, this is a PTPA You know, when Andy Murray was finishing three, four o'clock in the morning in Australia, they came up with all their bullshit statements that you know, the ptpa Take the player welfare, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So seriously, what's happened, what's happened with it, you know, we're nine months down the line and same shit. So, you know, unless the unless the players stand up that they will continually be abused by by scheduling and by the TV. And or if you have a strong union, that has leadership, again, with the injuries, of course, the injuries, I mean, because because your body's not having enough time to rest and recover from the late finishes. And also, if you have a leg finish that's that's terrible sleep, and then you playing the next day. So unless you play at a certain time, the next day, you can get through it, and able to have a decent night's sleep, you then just playing, playing catch up the whole time, you know, importance of eating, doing all your recovery, you'll probably find a lot of players three for the morning finishing, I'm just going to say that I'm not going to do the ice bath, I don't I'm not going to have an hour massage, I need to go I need to get to sleep. And if you actually speak to a lot of the physio they will say your treatment right now is not a paramount importance. Getting to sleep is more important than the treatment. Because that's when your body has got new repair, you've got muscular repair, rebuild, that's all happening when you're sleeping. Not when you're lying on the on the planet having having a table or having a massage or having that having that taken care of. So it's really important that you know, become somebody needs to get a hold of it. Because at the moment TV I think taping everything.

Daniel Kiernan  24:18

Yeah, well Iga, Iga said this is what this is what it was so Iga, said I think it's getting harder and harder. Tournaments. If they are longer, we have less time in between tournaments to recover your the late finishes. I think it's going to be pretty extreme next year, if all of the 1000 tournaments are going to be two weeks. And then Dr. Mark Kovacs, who you know as a kind of big player in the field on on this side of things, is saying you need to have the right folks involved with the players helping to manage schedules, monitor training, volume and load, monitoring, fit physiology, sleep, etc. It's going to become even more important over the next few years. So it does seem like the dials been turned up a little bit this year, not just with the late finishes, but also with these. We discussed it before these longer tournaments. It's not necessarily that tournaments have been taken out the schedule, in an in an already very difficult schedule. They've just made the tournament's even longer. And you know that that is going to have an effect you would think I don't know what your thoughts are, Gaby,

Gaby Dabrowski  25:26

That's interesting, because one of the positives that's been said, for the two week events are more time for players to recover in between matches, because it's a little bit more like a Slam where you have potential for more days off. So that's interesting. That said that where she actually thinks it'll be worse, because just the sheer length of the tournament is just maybe more mentally grueling, that is, as that what she's alluding to, I

Daniel Kiernan  25:54

think, also a lot lack of rest in between tournaments. So you know, you go, you go deep in, in Madrid, then you for two weeks that goes then into that then goes into Rome, that then goes into Paris, that then goes into Wimbledon that then goes in, you know, like it, it's it's, I guess getting harder for players to find those 2, 3, 4 weeks rest bites, to be able to one take the load down, rest  their bodies, rest their minds and two out and also I would imagine, get the work into your body as well. You know, the certain work you would do, I would imagine in in weeks off competition that is very difficult to do when you when you're bouncing from competition to competition.

Gaby Dabrowski  26:43

Yeah, I do agree with that. I mean, I experienced it this year, I think in between Rome and French Open when I decided not to play the week before the French Open, what but there was like, do I play? Do I not play doubles you are waiting for a partner to make a decision. So that's, you know, sometimes a little bit trickier to manage. But definitely, I think in terms of like trading blocks and rest weeks, it'll be more difficult to schedule that in with the addition of the two week events. I think that's fair. Yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  27:17

Moving in to into the tournament itself, you know, and I think after watching that three hour 49 minute three set match a couple of days ago in Carlos Alcaraz, and Novak Djokovic, which I will eat my hat if anyone doesn't pick one of those two to win the men's event, and they're being serious Vossy but I would say I would say that there's three possibilities and I said the French Open and I had Holger Rune is the third. I think Holger has dropped out of that. And I would say Medvedev on the hardcourt is someone if he gets his stuff together over the course of the two weeks, but it's really hard to see the winners coming outside of those outside of those three and and then I'm going to throw it to you Freddie then for me. I think it's it's about the Americans. You know, I think there's a lot of them, you know, and if you go through the list from threats to Paul, Tiafoe MacDonald, Cora Eubanks, Shelton Nakashima, then there's the young boy who was supposed to be going to Georgia University of Georgia, but he's had a really hot summer, Mickelson who's already up to 130 in the world. It feels like someone will have a big run. You know, Tommy Paul showed that maybe he's got the athleticism to take on Carlos Alcaraz over the last couple of weeks as well. But let's start with the top is pretty specialist Carlos Alcaraz. But it seems to me that he might have just added 12 at Monster Novak chocolate which is Korea because now that chakra which has got Alcaraz next to him, the way that that man's mind works, the way that he beat him at Wimbledon the way he's pushed him to seven six and the third in an incredible match in Cincinnati Djokovic is not going to let them pass through easily.

Freddie Nielsen  29:15

No I totally agree with you. I think he's genuinely been shocked by the level of Carlos, Yeah, I don't think he was expecting this high level this soon. And I think it has really made him like refocus and given him new life and I think it's gonna make him even more dangerous like you said so I'm sticking to my tweet the advice he was after that he might end up winning 30 But what obviously a little bit tongue in cheek but I think this could be the making of a different different beast.. I think Novak has been reignited and could be a good rivalry they seem to get along well and want a guy Carlos is he can he can take that match play it like he did come back and the third set ended up losing cramping in his hand and still deliver a quality post match ceremony and I think he's difficult not to root for. So there's gonna be again, I think a lot of people want to know Novak as the villain so if Carlos is the good guy then he plays his part perfectly. Could be a good rivalry one that tennis has been missing since since Roger and Rafa has kind of left the game a little bit in my opinion.

Daniel Kiernan  30:35

Is it gonna make also I can't help thinking this. We talked about this last year Wimbledon, Kyrgios' relationship with Novak let us in a bit more with Novak and it feels like Carlos has the same effect on him. He's always more open to to the crowd, starting to love them. And that's one of my predictions over the next 1218 months that I do think there's going to be a turn at a tidal change of how of how we view Novak and not just because we feel sorry for him because he's coming towards the end of his career. But I think the this rivalry brings out the best in him in lots of ways. And certainly has certainly softened. softened my outlook on Novak

Freddie Nielsen  31:26

Yeah. And also, I think in his some of the comments, he's been making in interviews have been a little more. I don't know how to say it in a good way. So I'm just gonna go with less humble, but not in a negative way like trying to I think one of the things that I always Novak has so many good things going for him. It's not that black and white is not he's not a genuinely bad or good guy. He does a lot of good things. And he does some maybe not so great things. But all in all, he has a lot of good to offer. And I just wish always that he would be himself. And I think he's starting slowly to be a little bit more of like that and in the media comments and saying a little bit more that gives an insight into who he is and I I like that I take to that so I think you might be right I think the the crowd might be coming around a little bit and I think they're also just appreciates a genuinely great player who is just hammering away at his age and defying time and sooner or later people are going to surrender to that right.

Daniel Kiernan  32:33

Absolutely. And Vossy to bring you in Taylor Fritz top 10 of the world. won some big events one Indian Wells, you know, had, hasn't hasn't quite gone to the depths of of the Grand Slam, later stages. But if you watch Taylor Fritz playing against Novak Djokovic, last week, there was a complete difference in tennis that was being played from, from a movement standpoint, from an ability to repeat standpoint. It feels like he is so far ahead of the rest. And then obviously Carlos has gone with him. What's what's the word and feeling on that on the men's tour?

Kieron Vorster  33:14

Yeah, I'd say the feeling is pretty much how you describe describe them freak of nature. You know, Taylor Fritz plays every single week. And so I'll probably say he's also playing tired. So he's not getting the best out of his ability and you know, maybe if he did rest, you know a week or so I think he's got this week off with body to recover, I think you'll see a lot better side effects. Now he's also one player that doesn't lose us seems to grind out matches and when you know when this went around the to that Yeah, I think I think you know, that there is there is a factor on Novak and obviously Alcaraz and just in terms of the aura they bring to the tournaments, you know, obviously the level that they're playing at and consistently that level that they're playing at. And that's basically what the other players have to aspire to get to.

Daniel Kiernan  34:12

And Gaby, I'm gonna bring you in at this point, because we're, we're going to work backwards and I like I messaged you guys earlier to get a little bit of clarity around our dark horse pick. Someone who watches tennis, obviously, you would have heard of everybody in the draw. But somebody who's going to make a fourth round runner, a quarterfinal run, that maybe isn't in that limelight on a weekend week in week out basis. Then a bit of an outsider to win the event. We've obviously we've got the big three you could argue maybe the big five now on the women's side. We'll get to that in in a bit. There's two Americans that have maybe jumped in there to be contenders. Our girl Coco is

Freddie Nielsen  34:53

just gonna keep a you gotta keep venting all these names before. I think you've said about 40 names now.

Daniel Kiernan  34:58

That's it. To get the to get the right sound bite afterwards Freddie and say that I pick the player is this this is how you This is how you do it. But then you've got the outright winners that you know coming from that those those big three big five big two whichever way you want to look at it. So Gaby on the men's side Dark Horse we've not really heard of them we have but someone else out there listening hasn't heard of them. Give us a name or two that we've got to look out for.

Gaby Dabrowski  35:31

Um maybe Max Purcell because he's done really well as of late and I don't know I played mixed with him so I feel like I know he's a really good player. He might just be tired going into the Open

Freddie Nielsen  35:46

but I think that's a really good shout Gaby but one thing I will say he's a marathon man he plays every week changes continents changes surfaces. He doesn't seem to get tired so I don't worry about that. I think that's a great pick he plays every week and every week with high quality so good choice.

Daniel Kiernan  36:06

It's Did you read my list?

Gaby Dabrowski  36:09

I just did now

Freddie Nielsen  36:12

What list the top 100?

Daniel Kiernan  36:16

But I really wanted us to talk about Max because I couldn't believe how good he was last week. I watched quite a bit of him I watched him on the doubles court. But I also watched a couple of his singles matches and every now and then like someone comes along that isn't a superstar but like I can just picture him like for the next 50 years so comfortable on a tennis court like his natural ability and natural feel natural way of getting in the right position natural action on his serve you know he's he's had an incredible 12, 18 months you know from you know coming from from quite low in the rankings really to win Challenger after Challenger put it in week in week out got offended when he was to called a doubles player last year when he won Wimbledon and made Final of Australian Open  Do not call me that I ever sit you know, I'm a tennis player, singles player. He's gone and done it and maintained an incredible level. Andy Murray beat them seven, five and a third in in Toronto and everyone thought for Andy scraped through that. That was a hell of a win for Andy Murray. You know, last week he went to set up on Carlos Alcaraz beat Casper Ruud. I think you've but then do you know what the amazing thing is? He's gone to Winston Salem, after all of those matches, and he just duffed someone up today. First round.

Freddie Nielsen  37:45

Yeah, that's what I mean. He does that all the time. And he's one of those things I always tried to, to preach the philosophy of making good tournament schedules, get a few group of tournaments, get home, practice, work, get up, have a good flow and the schedule. And then this guy comes along, and he plays every week. And he travels from continents, and he maintains the quality. And all my guy would have to do is just say, hey, what, but it worked for him. And I can say, yeah, he's really good at that. And it's continent, its surface. It's whatever and maintaining a high quality. He just if that good you know,

Daniel Kiernan  38:24

what was he any insight on Max Purcell in terms of how he trains? Is he a good trainer? Is he taking care of his body? Well, or is he just playing the game? Is that maybe where he's getting these reps by Just Playing match after match after match?

Kieron Vorster  38:39

One thing I do know is he took an Uber from Toronto to Cincinnati, which is a great effort in order to make qualifying and time because there were no flights. Wow. So this Yeah, this boy is committed to the courts. No, I don't I don't know enough about him. I know Rob Hill who used to be able to treat some ads through Tennis Australia and on the grass yet a little bit of an ankle issue. I think he pulled out Queens or he's pulled they pulled out of Surbiton. And you had some something wrong with his ankle, but I I haven't seen him workout in the gym if I'm honest. And I'm in there most most times though. I mean, he's obviously getting a lot of his good reps from from playing. I mean, I'm sure he's doing the ice bath and getting treatments with the athletic trainers. But I don't see I mean, look, if he's playing a lot of matches that there's not much you can do. Right. You know, he's not going to be something something other workouts but yeah, I can't comment any further on that

Daniel Kiernan  39:39

Started the year 220 in the world is now is now 47 in the world and it's played 66 matches already this year, winning 48 You know, you know I think he's a good example of get get out there and play. Get out there and play fols, you know, like, quite often used quite often. I like looking at those stats because you know quite often when people have made that are making that move you see like I remember looking at Tsitsipas and also Shapovalov when they were coming from juniors through to seniors both of them played over 100 matches in their in their transition through years you know, getting used to shaking hands as a winner and that's the big thing I saw from him he just looked like he was used to winning a lot of matches like shaking hands as a winner coming up with shots not a big deal and we all know that a good place to be So Gaby good one

Freddie Nielsen  40:30

and every every Slam final he's played he's been pretty clutch not fazed by the situation. easily easily comfortable makes a good result making Slam final and just back keeps backing it up. Very comfortable doubles player because the way I see it is just a very, he seems to be a naturally talented guy who understands the game and and plays the game very well.

Daniel Kiernan  40:54

Freddie, Darkhorse?

Freddie Nielsen  40:57

Well you mentioned him. I'm keeping my Danish head on and I'm gonna pronounce the Danish way. Alex Mckeithen Alex Mickelson

Daniel Kiernan  41:07

okay. He's got a Danish Danish

Freddie Nielsen  41:11

No but that every time I see that name, I just see Michaela Danish name so I was thinking that maybe he has some Danish heritage but pretty impressed and he just keeps winning. And he's beaten good guys he had a few runs that he went deep in Newport as well and seemed comfortable and not too faced about playing the the bigger guys and like you said just basically played his way out of college. So if I draw he I think he seems like a kind of guy who can do well at home if the draw falls his way. I don't see why can't win a few matches that at eighteenyears old.

Daniel Kiernan  41:51

18 years old has also played over 60 matches this year. So someone else incredibly, incredibly match tight. I just wonder if these results on the ATP tour. Haven't been as good off the grass. You had the big he had the big week on the grass in Newport. He's won a challenger on the hard.

Freddie Nielsen  42:14

Didn't he win Chicago and beat Nishikori?

Daniel Kiernan  42:17

He won Chicago, the challenger, he beat Nishikori in the quarterfinals.

Freddie Nielsen  42:22

So I mean, it's decent progress.

Daniel Kiernan  42:25

Absolutely. It's a name to look out for sure and Vossy.

Kieron Vorster  42:29

I'm gonna go Lloyd Harris. He's made the quarters here before. Not a lot of people know about him. It's coming back from injury. I've been watching him quite closely. And nothing is gonna come with some some good memories. And it's been a big serve. Like to pay for the courts. Yeah. And hopefully I'll turn it around

Daniel Kiernan  42:51

Good shout. You're not gonna allow me to have the one I want. Because it kind of it kind of falls in the crack of being

Freddie Nielsen  43:03

Novak Djokovic,

Daniel Kiernan  43:06

who was it who picked Iga as the dark horse was that it was that. That was unbelievable.

Freddie Nielsen  43:14

You You were the one who accepted it without moving a muscle in your face.

Daniel Kiernan  43:19

Mackenzie McDonald is the one that I'm going to I'm going to take for a dark horse is I like Mackey a lot. I think one he plays well. Two He puts it out there. He's always got had a big game. He's starting to show some results actually against some of the some of the bigger names and I think he's the sort that if the draw falls for him, you know, he's the sort of player that we could see in the quarterfinals. I don't see him going further than that. But I can see him making a little bit of a run.

Freddie Nielsen  43:49

Yeah, great ball striker. I mean, if you strike the ball, well, you can enter into his racket in the courts. Did you as open Yeah, why not?

Daniel Kiernan  43:58

I like him a lot. In terms of the next one. I'll jump in. I'll jump in first. Jannik Sinner. He's not my Winner winner at all. I don't have him there, but I do have him again. If the draw keeps him away from Medvedev, because he can't beat Medvedev. Medvedev just just soaks him up and says keep hitting it Jannik. I'm just going to soak you up all day long. But you know who he can beat he can beat Novak Djokovic. And he can be Carlos Alcaraz, you know, on his day, he can he's got he's got the ability is someone if he gets hot, hot, hot. Who knows? So he is my one to watch. I don't think he's going to be the winner but he's my one to watch that could win the event.

Freddie Nielsen  44:45

I think so many things will have to align for him he will need to strike the ball great from start to finish. The way the top two is

Daniel Kiernan  44:51

Well he does that. That's a given. When have you seen Jannik Sinner not strike the ball grid?

Freddie Nielsen  44:57

Well, I've seen American make a lot of mistakes and going or marquis shots on situations where he doesn't need to. And it's tough to win a tournament like that, you know, you win a tournament like that on your on your worst level not on your top level.

Daniel Kiernan  45:11

So who's your who's your outside for the win?

Freddie Nielsen  45:14

Mine is Alexander's Zverev. I think he's starting to look a little bit like the player he was before he got injured. He's not afraid of the good guys. He's beat the big guys. He's beaten Novak several times in big matches. I think he's got that X factor and the tennis starting to follow he beat Medvedev for the first time this year to play them many times. Yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  45:37

Second serve gonna hold up over five sets?

Freddie Nielsen  45:42

I mean, he came once one point away against Dominic. Few years back, so yeah, I think it will. It might not be that he's gonna reach the top level enough.

Daniel Kiernan  45:55

Vossy?

Kieron Vorster  45:57

I'm gonna go Medvedev. Yeah, I think the replacing the course will help neutralize his game alphas game. So yeah, and he's done while they're in the past.

Daniel Kiernan  46:10

Gaby?

Gaby Dabrowski  46:11

What do we think Andy has in him?

Freddie Nielsen  46:16

Emily's not here. So you're there to play the hang of the British crowd?

Gaby Dabrowski  46:20

No, I just I'm the Andy Murray crowd.

Daniel Kiernan  46:24

I'll tell you what he does have is a big heart

Gaby Dabrowski  46:27

I would love to see him do really well.

Freddie Nielsen  46:30

He got into it now.

Gaby Dabrowski  46:32

I know. It's tough. But from my heart. That's my pick from my head.

Kieron Vorster  46:36

FYI. Andy's fine he has been serving Okay.

Daniel Kiernan  46:40

You didn't miss it. He didn't miss a practice session. You almost fell out but he kept playing every day. I would say Andy Absolutely. But for me, I actually would almost have Andy and all this is maybe insulting but I'm not. Yeah.

Freddie Nielsen  46:59

Like a guy that the tennis crowd hasn't heard.

Daniel Kiernan  47:06

Quarterfinals for Andy is incredible.

Freddie Nielsen  47:08

Yeah, for sure. But I think like we said the fatigue, that's what really nobody questioned systems ability was always will is his ability to come up with the correct game plan and his willingness to to implement it. The body is what holds up. And that's also for example, what what makes me a little bit worried about my guy Holger he hasn't had the best of preparation either. That's also why I need to see that his body holds up first, unfortunately. But yeah, it is grueling, playing best of five sets in New York for two weeks. So horribly baggy tournament, probably the most awful tournament, potentially weatherwise of all the slams.

Daniel Kiernan  47:50

Because of the heat,

Freddie Nielsen  47:52

the heat and the humidity. And the McGinnis it's like a different, different heat. It's almost like a 30 heat from all the smog and whatnot. It's, I don't know, I would take the dry the dry heat and 50 degrees in Australia every day of the week over the crazy thick heat of New York.

Daniel Kiernan  48:09

And just a quick one on Holger and we often talked about Holger the way that he was made up and his belief system and his he would almost when he was younger, pull out of sets, not let people beat them in sets. He had such, you know, the way that his mind worked. And it was always because he was so adamant that that's what he was going to achieve. I always thought when he gets to a certain point, you know, how's he going to deal with that? You know where we are now? Not that I'm maxed out, but I've almost kind of reached a bit of a pedestal. And now I've got to go again. And I thought that might happen at 30, 40 in the world. It didn't you just keeps going kept going kept going. I just wonder if there's a moment here. I know he's moved up to number four in the world. Next week. On his day, without a shadow of a doubt, he's shown that he can beat Novak and he can beat Carlos and he can but they've kind of separated certainly Carlos has separated themselves from him. I just wonder if what we've seen over the last few weeks is is the effects of that along year, the push. And now it's going to be interested in how he deals with not just seeing the ranking go up and up and up and up and up and up and up. And then being in a position where maybe he's got to defend a little bit more. I think there's got to be an interest in 6-12 months for Holger

Freddie Nielsen  49:37

Definitely been I joked with him the other day that he only has three more possibilities to have a career high. So it's it's it's a strange situation to be in as a 20 year old. Yeah, I don't really know what it's like to be that good that early, but I will say one thing. Every time there's been a little bit of question mark How's he gonna handle this transition? How's he going to deal with this? People are going to do find out this and that he's managed?

Daniel Kiernan  50:07

He's answered it all. Yeah.

Freddie Nielsen  50:09

So far. And and, and I think I would have to, you know, he is a genius tennis wise, like on the court and his ability to find his solutions and whatnot. And obviously, hopefully, the body will hold up. And all this is a question mark, but he's quite good at understanding okay, this might not You said he protects himself a little bit, but at the same time, he is he knows what he needs to do. And if something needs to be done, he'll do it. So I have a hard time questioning him when he's just keeps coming up with the right answers at that at this age. And one of his strengths is that he's good on every surface. I also think this is his least favorite swing, just based on what I've seen playing. I think a few people have been like that, like it's very lively, hard court, it's very strange conditions, specifically, since he has over the years proven to be a weird place for a lot of players. So I'm not that worried yet. I'm a little bit concerned about his body. Because I don't like the kind of injuries if you get those at that age. But like I said, he's always come up with a good answer to that's what I'm hanging my hat on.

Daniel Kiernan  51:24

So the moment is come to pick your winner, men's side. We've we've said a lot about these two guys. Already in this last hour. So just give me give me a name Gaby.

Gaby Dabrowski  51:39

I think Alcaraz wins this one.

Daniel Kiernan  51:41

Freddie

Freddie Nielsen  51:43

Novak.

Daniel Kiernan  51:44

Kieron

Kieron Vorster  51:45

Alcaraz

Daniel Kiernan  51:47

It's two all, Novak. He hasn't proved enough yet to be Alcaraz. But let's, let's see. But I, I would love to see that final. I think I want to see as much of that rivalry as we can.

Freddie Nielsen  52:00

If he takes Novak out to Grand Slam finals in a row. With Novak coming, he is going to be frothing around for this revenge. So if he does that, too good.

Daniel Kiernan  52:14

Let's say we all know that there's lots that can happen. You know, before we get into, you know, the six matches, there's there's New York City, there's Manhattan. There's everything that comes with it to be able to get through before we get to finals day. So let's see. But I must have made for the, for the tennis public out there on TV for the for the name of tennis for men's tennis. I think having these rivalries is quite special. And I think that's, that's shown that they can play incredible tennis and I think it would be nice over the next couple of years if we can see a lot of Alcaraz Djokovic and build the excitement. But moving on over now to the women's side. As the years gone on, it's got a little bit less clear. You know, we were pretty clear that Iga wasn't so long ago, you could couldn't lose a match. Then it was well she can because Rybakina and I could just hit through her and seem to be getting the better of her. We then thought Sabalenka as the one now you know she's lost the choking. She's found a serve again, she hits the ball, so big and so clean. But then the last couple of events in the bigger moment she's let big leads go. We've had Ons Jabeur that is actually Ons has made the final of what two out of the last three out the last five finals. She's made, I believe US Open last year and then Wimbledon. So three out of the last five finals, and we haven't often talked about Ons, and then we got the Americans. And you know Coco is certainly a favorite of Freddie's. He went for Coco every time for three years. I thought she was losing it a little bit. But what we've seen over the last few weeks oh my goodness, she's, she's good. And she's ready. And then Pegula goes under, under the radar. You know, nobody really talks about about she's number three in the world. So the six there that I'm not sure that when it comes out of those.

Freddie Nielsen  54:18

Can you can you think of more to mention just to cover all your bases

Daniel Kiernan  54:22

well this is not my pics, this is me. This is me setting you guys up. You know, this is me, leading us in on the women's side. So we're going to get to those top players. But what have we got to look forward to Gabby that's it seems like you know there's an exciting time right now there's lots of I can beat you and you can beat me that that's happening on the on the women's side. And I'm sure it's gonna be the same in the USA.

Gaby Dabrowski  54:50

Well, I think kind of, as usual, everything is just a little bit of a toss up. There are a lot of girls that are quite even with Their results within the last while and it's kind of like Iga rybakina. Jess Pegula Coco Gauff. Who else have, we got Svitolina. Yeah, some really good stories. I would love to know what's changed with Coco Gauff. Recently? Is it that we're on the hard courts now? And the balls are a little bit heavier. Does that suit her? She seems to be finding a lot more confidence in her forehand in the big moments. Is it Brad Gilbert that a brad Gilbert saying is that a her thing? Yeah. Like I want to know, like, what's the change?

Freddie Nielsen  55:42

Maybe it's just too cheap. She turned from five into eight years old and learned a little bit. Like she's very young. And she still is. Yeah, but just Yeah, learning the game understanding she's so young. I think about that.

Gaby Dabrowski  55:57

Yeah, could just be maturity. Definitely. I think everyone is so evenly matched in the women's game right now, especially going into this slam. Because we haven't had those consistent, consistent rivalries, as we've seen now with the guys in the same way, with like having the two or the three that are just always there. But I like it. I think it's exciting.

Daniel Kiernan  56:20

All we overlooking the Czechs. We seem to do it every time. We don't we don't mention them. You know, I'm the quick look at the ranking. We've now got the 9, 10 11 and 12 players in the world, from Czech Republic, obviously, Wimbledon champion in Vondrousova, French Open finalist and Cincinnati finalist in Brookova. You know, there's they certainly are in in that position in their very humble way that they got under the radar, but they're always there. Are there abouts. Freddie?

Freddie Nielsen  56:53

Absolutely. And maybe maybe that's true that we sometimes forget it. But maybe it's also because we can't see the forest for trees. They have so many players and the talent factory. So obviously, they have the reigning Grand Slam champion coming in. So you can't underestimate them. Absolutely. They're just as likely to win as all the other names that you mentioned. And I think it's actually a slide on your behalf that you've mentioned that many names and didn't pull out one check. So I think shame on you.

Gaby Dabrowski  57:28

But I forgot, sorry

Daniel Kiernan  57:29

But in terms of I actually I mentioned this to Vicki, my wife earlier this evening. In Cincinnati, Vondrousova walked in the gym or walked in the players cafeteria. And she just won Wimbledon. And it was like, it was one of the players friends that were walking in. Like she's so understated. It was unbelievable. And you know, we don't have to go into the names. But there's been some players over the last few years that have won a Grand Slam. And it's become this kind of instant, superstar of the superstars of the world, you know, that everyone in the world would recognize. But Vondrousova could walk down any street in any city, in any, in any country in any part of the world. And absolutely nobody would even pick it up. And that's sad, maybe in one way. But I think it's it's good good in the way that you can see consistent results continuing to come. And then the Grand Slam win is not necessarily going to go to their heads, which has happened in the women's game, you know, and it's, it isn't just picking out one or two players, it's happened quite a bit over the last five or six years, where we've had these kinds of one one hit wonders that have then struggled to get everything in their life sorted. And recall that and Vondrousova I just don't see that happening to Gaby. Yeah, I agree. They definitely don't walk around with their nose in the air. They're very chilled out. I really liked that about both of them. They have belief in their games, but they don't have that arrogance that can rub you the wrong way. So they're strong, but they don't really have that chip on their shoulder. And I really respect that because they easily could. So I don't know if that's just because like we were talking about before, there's so many great players from the Czech Republic. So they're just like, Oh, I'm just like everyone else. And I'm not just one for my country. And that's it. Like literally any of them could win. I really liked that about them. And I admire them and I wish those kinds of players were marketed more and talked about more, because so often we just go with the players who are the loudest or who have the highest social media followings and stuff like that, when in actuality it's girls like Vondrousova that I feel like are really really good role models without even trying to be I need to get Lessons from you on how to say these all these names, your heritage, you you're able to pronounce those names so much better than me. Oh my goodness, you show it massively showing this up. And Friday, I want to I want to take you to Iga. You know, we spoke about it a little bit off air. She's so interesting, such an interesting character such an interesting way. She seems to be doing things that are outside the box different. You start Bartoli used to do a lot of outside the box training, you know, that was all a bit like, whoa, what's happening here. Whereas Iga seems to be doing it. And it seems to be having an effect, you know, in terms of in terms of what what she what she's doing. So we saw the mouth patch, when she was out and sawed off. That was what '21 She did a lot of cognitive loading. It was very rare that she, she just trained tennis or she just trained movement, or she just trained in the gym. It was very rare that it was isolated. So she what she would do, she would do some fitness work, and then she would surf, then she would she would do some maths equations or have certain different questions that were testing her from a from a mentality standpoint, and then she would lift a weight or she would have to hold hold a core position. You know, so kinda like the combination of the two. And yeah, there's been there's been lots of lots of different different training that she seems to have tried to do. Is that, is that something that you as players Gabby, look at and go, oh, we need to try that? Or is, you know, is that something that just everyone is? Because obviously, you see a lot of people training and doing things in very different ways. And there's not a whole lot of space, you know, you might think that these big events that everyone's in their own private rooms doing doing these exercises, but it's there, it's out in the open for everyone to see what everybody else is doing. So in general, on the tour, are people stealing exercises stealing information? Or, you know, how does how does that tend to work?

Gaby Dabrowski  1:02:15

Um, I think it depends. So I think that sometimes there are things that you look at, and you go, Whoa, how does that exercise apply to tennis at all, and then you look at another one, and you go, Oh, I see I've never thought of it that way, kind of like what you're talking about with cognitive loading, which I can only imagine is helping her mental stamina because it's like, you're mentally fatigued, but then you need to serve at high quality or need to hold a core position and then do it again. And so I think that's kind of interesting stuff, I think there's probably a lot that happens behind closed doors that we don't actually see as well. I know that for me, the most that I've ever done that's different is just a little bit of the cognitive loading and like eye exercises, but it's not been to the point of really incorporating one with tennis or one with fitness, it's usually been part of like, a warm up kind of thing. So it's been pretty basic, I would say, but I think, I don't know, maybe it has something to do also with Iga that it's like, she can kind of handle so many different things, because so often we just get caught training, like very linearly, whereas like she's training kind of everything all at once. So I want to go out on a limb and say it makes her a more well rounded athlete in general, but so much of that coming from the mental side. But I don't know definitely there are things that some fitness trainers that I've seen or spoken to they look at other fitness trainers and go like what the hell is that person doing? Like, that's not going to help them and if they keep doing that they're gonna get injured. Or alright, that's really good exercise. Like let's see if we can incorporate that. But yeah, I don't know they're different approaches. I'd be curious to see what what other people think on that for sure.

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:13

Isn't that the beauty of the sport though frankly, the Beauty and the Beast actually of the sport. It's like I was talking to someone about this the other day like I could go and sign into a tournament in Tunisia this weekend. And call myself a professional tennis player. And I can take my mate John from down the road has never picked up a racket to do it as well and if there's space in the draw, then we get into the event so that the nature of the sport is so much around taking ultimate responsibility for yourself. You know, whereas a lot of lot of sports you're selected and this is in Tennis, I know you can be selected from Federation's and funding and wildcards and things that make it a bit easier, but it's kind of open game, right, you know, anyone can compete.

Freddie Nielsen  1:05:03

The most independent sport in the world

Daniel Kiernan  1:05:05

Yeah. And that there's a beautiful thing about that. I think the not so beautiful thing about that is you do get a lot of cowboys out there that are looking to make a quick buck out of people. And you get all sorts of kind of wild west, things that are things that are going on as well, and some not quite so nice things that you see. But it is a fascinating sport in that regard.

Freddie Nielsen  1:05:28

It totally is. And on top of that, it's also a sport that has so many layer layers. But it also has so much skill involved, that leaves a lot of room for personal interpretation. You can you can have a guy who needs to practice five hours a day and just hit the ball up and down completely. Like you said, linear and, and rigid. And then you can have a guy who needs to practice 30 minutes of doing backspin drop shots, and proportionately can be more successful, there really is a big difference in what can be successful. And like you said, if you have some guys that are a little bit outside the box and maybe go about it in a way where they seem like Space Cadets, then the Federation can stop them for the day, they're allowed to do that, with every upside has a downside. And if you don't have the Wild West cowboys, then you you might not have that many opportunities for people, some other sports can be very closed. So I quite like it like that. I do like it. And I do think that tennis attracts a lot of characters that way. I've always appreciated that about tennis, because if you're just good enough, nobody's gonna stop you. If you enter and you're good, and you make the ranks and nobody likes you, we've we had a few players on the tour that nobody liked. But as long as he didn't disobey the International Tennis rules, he was there to make a living for himself and nobody wanted to practice there's a few guys nobody wanted to practice with. Nobody wants to be seen with the Federation didn't want to know of them. But hey, nobody's gonna stop them. So they're still there.

Daniel Kiernan  1:07:14

But the the other one, which is this is now my time to drop. If you're listening to this episode, then I'd be very surprised if you didn't listen to our special episode 200, which was a certain sir Andy Murray. And one of the comments that I made, Andy was, and I've been told this over the years, to be the best in the world to be this to got not even be the best in the world. But to go on this journey, you have to be obsessed. In all this word, obsessed, obsessed, obsessed, obsessed. And we kind of get we kind of get it thrown at us a little bit. And I would look at eager and I will say she seems to be obsessed. You know, that would certainly seem to be something that comes through. So I asked Andy that caught that last question. And he said actually, it was it's one of the things I've had to try and stop being because it's such an unhealthy word, actually, you know, and it's, it's something that he really felt that earlier on in his career he was, but it's something he's worked hard to almost get away from. And it was very clear speaking to Andy, and we didn't delve into it that much. But that the word obsession was almost a bit of an unhealthy word. And a one that we have to be have to be careful on.

Freddie Nielsen  1:08:30

Definitely an upset. I mean, that's, that's the thing I take away from Iga. You know, she's trying a lot of the stuff she's doing and I see doing, he might gain point 2% advantage of, but she seems obsessed to find that advantage over her, her colleagues. And that's what I like. And I think and maybe I'm just biased here, but I think I feel like that's a lacking a little bit in the younger generation. It feels like there's a little for lack of better expression. People seem content. I was thinking that the other day, I quite like it. People are friendly. They're nice with each other. They're only even friendly on the court. It doesn't seem like people hurt as much when they leave the court as they used to be. And they seem like they're Yeah, that that obsession that people used to have to be good and like live sleepless at night. I don't have that impression of the top guys or the tour as much as it used to and certainly what I've seen in the in the coaching is that not many guys, volunteer feedback for example. And and I do find that interesting and that's why quite laggy it's when a lot of the things might seem too much but I do think it is important. You say obsessed I think a lot of other guys use the word obsessed and didn't didn't know backstab. I'd also come out and say that he wished his son would stop playing because it's too much for his life. What it takes to maintain that kind of level is madness. You can't even comprehend it if you're a regular human being. So I and that doesn't make it a healthy word as well, because I think one of the things Andy might be alluding to is also tough to be that obsessed about attendance while maintaining a family life with four kids.

Daniel Kiernan  1:10:26

Very well said, guys. Who's your tacos?

Freddie Nielsen  1:10:31

I'll go first. I'll go first. I'm one now. Obviously, I have to say Caroline, but since people know about her, I don't think that qualifies for the rules. So I am going to bring up I'm not even going to try and embarrass myself pronouncing her last name, but Clervie, the junior Wimbledon champion, she has incredible upside. She's still a diamond in the rough. So so if it's not really there, it's not great. But she if she hits, comes out firing and plays well, I think she can upset some, some big names. Very good. He's gonna try and say the last name for me then. Going into Sorry, sorry about that. I'd take responsibility. I haven't I haven't done the research and how to pronounce the last name.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:11:18

Not when I don't.

Daniel Kiernan  1:11:20

If only it was a Czech name. Gaby who were looking out for?

Gaby Dabrowski  1:11:31

I'm still gonna go with Andreeva I think she's she's got a lot of potential still to kind of impose herself even at such a young age. So I think, yeah, Mira, Andreeva.

Daniel Kiernan  1:11:45

And I have to after shout out for Emily, because Emily, about a year ago brought this name up Noskova and said, you know, so and she's she's starting. She's starting to move, which should be covered over last week in Cincinnati. And you know, had a couple of Goodwin's monster Coco golf. So, I know Emily's not with us today. But on behalf of Emily, I want to bring Noskova to the to the party. And the one I like to bring up and again, I have to be honest, I don't know this girl that well, you're gonna turn around and tell me she's made like semis of a slam. But I was really impressed with her last week. And she's, she's only recently started working with when Fisset, who has got a got an excellent record on the women's side, you know, and he certainly is certainly into what he's doing. And that is Zhen. And she's someone I just was really impressed with our saw I saw on the practice court quite a few times and she's someone that I could could see having a having a good run you get a bit of a feel that these tournaments for someone who's locked in and it looks to me like it was a player that was very much locked in to the to the up and coming events and the event that she she's at so that's a want a one to watch out for from from my side. And then my second my second one that is this Coco. I think she's

Freddie Nielsen  1:13:22

That's mine too.

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:24

She's, she's one we all back.

Kieron Vorster  1:13:27

She's back. She is let's go.

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:30

Like I lost a bit of faith and I, I have to and that really bothered me. You know, it's but I had I felt like the forehand was a big hole. I felt like it was a big hole. But she was absolutely awesome. The last two or three weeks and I think she's she Yeah, she really could. She really could do it.

Freddie Nielsen  1:13:51

I think we touched upon it earlier but I think it's criminal to ride somebody off of course.

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:57

And I don't think we wrote her off but I'm talking more about Control the Controllables picking to win a Grand Slam writing off you know what it hasn't been as dramatic as we've pushed her completely to the side but it just it Yeah, she was she was having as good as she was and I got a bit of stick last week. I said she has had a terrible year so that we were sat at the lunch table. I think it was Lloyd that it was like she's number six in the world or something like that. And it just it felt like to me she hasn't had a good year you know, and I would kind of stand by that for for what we thought she was going to be

Freddie Nielsen  1:14:33

You know, it always has to be comparable to that level right but these kind of things I agree with the forehand but also people have had hitches on their game Novak had gifts on his server back in the days and kind of happens and she seems like the kind of character who would who would deal all right with that kind of stuff.

Daniel Kiernan  1:14:53

Yeah. So that's that's my kind of outside pick to win it because I know she's she's not one are the top two or three favorites? What about you, Gaby?

Gaby Dabrowski  1:15:03

Oh, no, I agree with Coco.

Daniel Kiernan  1:15:05

So we're all on Coco

Freddie Nielsen  1:15:06

and Vicey. Who, who had to had a split? He said Samsonova

Daniel Kiernan  1:15:12

Okay, that she said, she said another good little period there. Like that. So now it brings us to the winners, you know, it's

Freddie Nielsen  1:15:22

we're gonna hang him out to dry and say that he said something completely ridiculous. And then

Daniel Kiernan  1:15:29

who was who was his winner?

Freddie Nielsen  1:15:32

Pam Shriver.

Daniel Kiernan  1:15:34

So vas, he's gone for Coco for the win. Gaby. Yeah.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:15:39

I'm still gonna go with Iga I agree with you she can come through, she definitely won't be tired. I know. This is like a thing that people like, shouldn't be tired or whatever. But I just think she's gonna be probably the freshest out of most of the players, considering how the scheduling had gone in Montreal, and Cincy for all the girls that did do really well. And also, she won't be playing doubles. I don't know if Coco and Jess will be playing doubles. I don't know if that's also going to Coco at all. But I do think Iga might have the upper hand in terms of freshness.

Freddie Nielsen  1:16:12

And I also think that the change of balls is gonna play into her hands, we kind of touched upon that earlier as well, I think that plays, that's an advantage or

Daniel Kiernan  1:16:21

I have to go what I wrote down. I don't like to, I don't like to react to what you guys have said. I think the women's winner is the one that brings the most consistent level on a day in day out basis. And it was the hardest one to beat. And I think that is we've seen it with Novak over the years. You know how difficult he is to be in the big moments, you know, I talk about it, like, I talk a lot to players about this, you've got an island, and you know, like Kyrgios' island is so small, but if he if he happens to be on it that day, you know, he is unbelievably dangerous. But the reality is, there's so many things can push them off that island, whereas Novak Djokovic, she just can't get them off. You know, these Island is the size of Ireland. And, and for me on the women's side, the Novak Djokovic, of the women's side is Iga. And I just think it'll take a really special performance, someone to absolutely Catch, catch themselves really hot to be able to get through her. And I agree with you, Freddie, I think the balls are made for her in that way. There's a reason why she pushed for that. And I think she will be the 2023 Women's Champion. So I'm sorry, it's a bit boring that we've all got the same. But if, if it's a Coco Iga final, then we'll all look as if we know what we're talking about for once.

Freddie Nielsen  1:17:58

Yeah, and then you have to forgive Kieron for pegging Venus Williams to make a magical run. He is an opportunist.

Daniel Kiernan  1:18:09

He certainly certainly is that. But I think that takes us to the end, guys. I think my last question just so you know, just in, in line with Control the Controllables, it would feel a bit odd to Okay, thank you goodbye. We normally have our quick fire round, sometimes I treat you to a quiz. We got a little bit bored of Freddie winning the quizzes the whole time. So I have one question for you both. And you know, this is from a player's standpoint, and obviously you now Freddie as a coach, what is one thing you would change about grand slams?

Gaby Dabrowski  1:18:49

I would encourage Grand Slams to adopt a prize money formula system of how they go about deciding prize money versus just using trust us method?

Daniel Kiernan  1:19:02

And how would that? How does it currently look?

Gaby Dabrowski  1:19:05

If they just choose the number, so there is no formula. I mean, they probably have their own formula. But I would rather a formula where there's some kind of revenue sharing scheme. So that on the years where the slams do really, really well, which is the majority of the last 15 years, maybe more, then we all made way more money and only years where maybe, you know, we didn't do it well like the ones after COVID or whatever, then that's okay, then we make a little bit less and then that way it's more of a partnership between the governing bodies of tennis and the players versus we decide and you must do as we say situation. That's what I would change.

Daniel Kiernan  1:19:46

Great answer that. Before Freddie goes. I have to tell a really quick story on how I currently feel. So one Christmas me and my wife said we were struggling a bit for money. So we said we will have a A 10 pound limit to what we buy each other. Yeah. So, Christmas morning comes around. And Vicki passed me my present first. And I open it up and it's a beautiful picture. And it's a poem that a daughter has written to her. To her dad just beat we just become new parents with painted handprints and footprints on this on this picture. And as beautiful as that was in the emotions came to my eyes. The real emotion I was feeling was, Oh, shit. Now I have to give my really really shitty

Freddie Nielsen  1:20:45

threatened, rescue was credited.

Daniel Kiernan  1:20:48

And I just had this overwhelming feeling which Gabby's answers such a good answer. My overwhelming feeling is great answer, Gabby. But you've done me here because my answer that I'm about to give isn't very good. So anyway, to end that story on Christmas morning out pop the cocoa butter that was was was 599, reduced to 299. The bag, the bag of chocolate coins, who doesn't love a chocolate coin at Christmas. And then the world's worst calendar stick ons to say gone out for the day or gone to the beach. That was that was reduced from 1099 to 499. And I even spent 11 pounds instead of 10. And I had to, through the grit of my teeth, pass these three presents to my wife after she'd given me. Yeah, I've just been taken back to that moment, because mine is not at all kinds labs, but at most grand slams. And I believe I believe it's the same at New York. And I apologize for the rubbish Enos of this to you listening. The coach doesn't get any, any fun on their on their pass, to get any to get any food. So what you have to do as a coach and most coaches are mature men and women who have, you know, been around the block a little bit and, you know, are at the stage where they've got to go up to their player, like Oliver Twist and say, Please, please, sir, please Miss, can I have some more, you know, and actually have to borrow their their paths to be going to go and get themselves a chicken sandwich. And it's quite a degrading thing that coaches who have done all right in the world, I'm not saying that we're Grand Slam champions, like yourself Freddie. But we are, we are at the stage of our life where that embarrassment probably doesn't have to happen. So I would just say come on just bit like Cincinnati, in the food hall. Anyone that's got a pass. There's food there for everyone to have. Let's all not quite feel so embarrassed and feel like Oliver Twist every day, asking their player to have that have a sandwich.

Freddie Nielsen  1:23:01

Man, yeah, how do I come after these two incredible answers. I mean, I'm the worst to ask for this, because it automatically starts my brain thinking and I'm gonna probably take 45 hours before I come up with something that I think is a good answer. So I'm gonna do my best to just not go down that rabbit hole and answer briefly. One thing that the only thing I can come up with a short is that I would like to go back to 16 seeds. That's why I like that. I like that. I like that there's an opportunity for players. I like that it opens up draws. I think it gives more interesting first week matches.

Daniel Kiernan  1:23:51

I would agree by the way, I like that.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:23:54

What do you think the say?

Freddie Nielsen  1:23:56

I think depends on who you ask. I think the lower rank guys would be up for it because it's an opportunity for draws to open up.

Daniel Kiernan  1:24:06

First place in the world

Freddie Nielsen  1:24:11

3332 First, they will say No way. No way. But yeah, I remember some my former coach you will always talk about how he you know this opportunity has been in Australian Open where the draw opened up and he had a highway and so forth round and this kind of stuff. And you could see some really good matches in the in the beginning. One of what I was trying to think of is what would make tennis better. And the only thing I could come up with was better matches on the show courts. So one of the things that one of my pet peeves is when they put the big names and the big courts. In uncompetitive matches. Obviously there's no way of knowing beforehand if a match is going to be competitive or not, but you You kind of have an idea of what's going to happen. And I think that you would have more interesting matches to put on the first in the first week on the bigger court where people, people want to be at the big court so they want to see their favorite players. And then if they can see them in a competitive environment instead of seeing Novak played night session on the Monday of US Open winning love, love and love or love, love and oneness happened before. I don't think that's good for the game. And then you also you have the commentators, you have John McEnroe. Unless you're a Grand Slam competitive champion or top 20 in the world, you're not you're not really good at tennis, then that didn't that may give us a bit of a bad impression to to the rest of the players as well, to the rest of the spectators as well. And I think, yeah, I think it would just give some some more competitive first round matches some interesting watches, I would watch more templates in the first round, instead of watching these matches that I know are gonna be uncompetitive.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:26:00

I have one thing to say about that is that I think true tennis fans know that the best tennis matches in the first week usually happen on the outside courts or on the smaller stadiums. So and they're usually packed. So I know that grounds pass tickets are usually a lot cheaper than centre court tickets, or whatever the next court is, depending on the tournament, but I do think true tennis fans know that there's so many good quality tennis matches, where the players are extremely hungry to get through that first or second round. And generally those matches happen on the outside courts.

Freddie Nielsen  1:26:41

I totally agree with that. And the problem is that from what I hear in player meetings and all this stuff that tennis has to rely on on on on the gate receipts of the tickets and they need to get a better job of getting out to the fans behind the couches and using their their various platforms to show tennis on on TV to get out to more fans that way and to younger fans and so that was the only thing I was thinking that agreed on this without any preparation my dad that was the best thing I've come up with and I think follow your answer.

Daniel Kiernan  1:27:19

I think it's a great answer and you know, as a tennis fan, and as a tennis coach, I just got really excited thinking what if there was no seeds?

Kieron Vorster  1:27:30

Oh that my wife says that all the teachers because

Daniel Kiernan  1:27:33

FA Cup FA Cup the most prestigious football soccer event in the world. The beauty of the FA Cup is there's no seeds it's you get drew gets drawn out the heart after each round. And it's it's this big excitement now. Okay, maybe you need to draw the whole draw. But imagine Alcaraz Djokovic got pulled out first round, like how unbelievable would that be? You know, like, and the excitement around the draw would just be off the charts. And then we'd have we'd stop these journalists writing Novak Djokovic's route to the final is against duh duh duh. Did you know that? Because that pisses me off as well. It's so disrespectful to the players that are out there in the quarterfinals he's going to play this person and come on in also

Freddie Nielsen  1:28:21

we added How about we added a layer to it the draw for each round is made after each round

Daniel Kiernan  1:28:28

Yeah, that's that's what they do in the FA Cup.

Freddie Nielsen  1:28:32

Actually my wife who didn't have any background in tennis and has come to be interested in tennis after she met me keep saying that. I said why is this seats I want to see like the absolute madness of withdrawal where everybody can play everybody in the first match.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:28:48

Maybe we can have a slam and have that as the format and see how it goes. Oh, I

Freddie Nielsen  1:28:55

mean, that could be the Saudi Arabia way to go.

Daniel Kiernan  1:28:58

Yeah, all all at the end of year finals, they pull out their hat there's there's four balls to pull out and whichever one gets pulled out that's what happens at that grand slam the next year.

Freddie Nielsen  1:29:12

I mean, we're slowly getting into circus territory here but

Daniel Kiernan  1:29:18

all we all we all we all we building. We know this is this is thinking we think that that's the way it's weird. Tennis is weird. They do things in a weird way but where we've been so institutionalized by it over the last however many years that we just almost feel that that's the door that normality why why is it circus territory because you're going we're not having seats in a lot of other sports they don't do that.

Freddie Nielsen  1:29:47

No but most parts they do even in the Champions League they divided people into seedsand football they the FA Cup but but the World Cup and European Championships that phase you can have a Brazil England you Italy and France in a group in the World Cup, it has to be the divide everything in. And also, it's also the way the ranking works in, in tennis. So it's a 12 month ranking. So you have to give some sort of quality to that you have to you have to make a validate all the other tournaments. It's not like the Formula One, we just start from scratch every year, and you see where you go.

Daniel Kiernan  1:30:21

As always, someone boring and the spoils are fun. We were just we were just getting creative. But it's a good job, because I've kept you way too long once again. So I want to say a big, big thank you to you guys to Kieron Vorster who jumped on he is in New York right now we've done Evans preparing

Freddie Nielsen  1:30:42

came on granted

Daniel Kiernan  1:30:45

And then got cut off. So a big thank you to Karen. And hope everyone is well wherever you are, enjoy the US Open 2023. And

Freddie Nielsen  1:30:53

a few real quick and you always ask us your coach and mentor What are you looking forward to going two years old now? Both would you play us and as a coach? What are the challenges ahead for you? You always ask the question. Yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  1:31:03

Yeah. Well, I think I'll coach you. I think the number one challenge I have is I have two teams to look after very high maintenance teams. So no, it's it's it's actually the challenges of a Grand Slam compared to other events for me are is it feels a little less personal. You know, I like the tournament's where it is. It's a little bit smaller, the teams are smaller. It's you and the players. It's about work. It's about Okay, you win the match. Great. We get back on court, we were working on your game survivors to talk specifically around Lloyd Glasspool, Harry, Helliovarra, first, Harry's coach from Finland's there, you know, his his, his family's there, his kids are their lives, girlfriends will be there. There's then Louis Cayer, who to me is and have Louis but Louis's there looking after the British tennis players. So all of a sudden, it becomes a much bigger team to manage, you know, a lot of different personalities, a lot of different ways to, you know, to be able to get the practices, right, you're often off site, you're looking at different times, people staying in different hotels, you're in New York City, it's a big city getting around is not so easy. So I would say one challenge is getting quality time with the team, people will send us tend to spend time with their families after after practices after matches. So I would say that would be that'd be one thing with with Gabby and and Erin. You know, Aaron's gonna have her coach, that's, that's there as well, Gabby, I don't know if you've got anybody else that's coming. But but there tends to be bigger entourages that are around. So those are the challenges, the excitement is there, unbelievable events. And, you know, it's the, it's the absolute pinnacle of our industry, right. And, you know, and to be in with a chance and working with two teams that absolutely can win the event, in order to go through that process with them is incredibly exciting. You know, and that's, that's something that I absolutely love and can't wait for, you know, and I think the days leading into the matches, you kind of want to, it can drag a little bit, especially for doubles players, because you don't always know when you start. So you arrive on Friday, but is it a Wednesday start isn't a Thursday, is it you know, it can get moved, you can get moved a little bit too far back, then that would then bring another challenge. We had a grand slam because I actually also like the tournament's where you play back to back to back, you know, you get into the routine and you get into the rhythm. I think it's quite a nice way to nice way to do it. But certainly very excited to be there and going there with a lot of optimism to you know, see, see, see the good work being put out and on the biggest of stages, really. And I get to hopefully see you over there Friday. And certainly we'll get to see Gaby as well. So what's not to like about it?

Freddie Nielsen  1:34:08

Exactly. And with all the challenges, always remember, control the controllables

Daniel Kiernan  1:34:14

Thanks, guys. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. So they have AX It's not often that we agree so much as a panel. But if Coco Gauff makes the final and Iga wins the women's singles, then we will look like we know what we're talking about. And then of course, could anybody go against Novak Djokovic, or Carlos Alcaraz? were split on opinion on that. It's hard to see an underdog coming all the way through the men's event to knock one of them off the top of their perch. We've got of course got the men's doubles. We've got the women's doubles, we've got the junior events, we've got the wheelchair events. There's so much great tennis for us all to look forward to wherever you are watching in the world, I hope you thoroughly enjoy two weeks entertainment with the sport that we absolutely love. And we will be back at the end to review everything that we've seen. Please send in your opinions. We will read some of them out in a couple of weeks time. We want to hear from you. We want to hear your thoughts on how US Open has gone. And if you haven't yet caught up or seen the news of our 200th episode on the podcast. Just scroll down on your podcast app and you will see Sir Andy Murray. It's not a one to be missed. 199 also isn't Jan Stoces as the performance tennis director for Czech tennis. We all know that they are smashing it right now. Learn from Jan and his team what they are doing two more amazing episodes for you to listen to. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan. We are control the controllables