US Open 2023 Review

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Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Episode 203 of Control the Controllables. And it's the final Grand Slam of 2023. In New York City, and what a brilliant two weeks we had and I was lucky to be there. We're going to hear all about that, and so much more as I bring our brilliant panelists. Back to you. We've got the US Open 2023 women's doubles champion, Gaby Dabrowski. And Gabby's been with us on the last few of our panels on the Grand Slams, and to see her firsthand and be her coach, watching her firsthand win the title with Erin Routliffe was a quite incredible feat. You know, a Roy of the rovers story really, when only their fourth tournament together. So we'll be going through that and we'll get firsthand reaction from Gabby on that and how her life has changed. Maybe Freddy Nielsen, who is also our panelist who won the 2012 Wimbledon men's doubles title, he has a little bit of advice for Gabby. And then Kieran Vorster. He had a great US Open as well, Liam Broady, who did very well. And then Dan Evans, who won a couple of great matches before playing a brilliant four set match with Carlos Alcaraz. And he was also helping Serrana Costea, who made the quarter finals beaten, Rybakina on the way. And so he's got lots of great stories. And then, of course, Emily Weberly Smith, who have to thank because she was the one that introduced me to Gaby, and started that relationship as a coach player relationship that has now come to fruition here in here in New York. So a big thank you to Emily. And Emily is busy competing hard out there on the tour, and she was able to jump on before she played a match the next day. So a big thanks as always, to Emily. There's lots to talk about. There's lots of storylines, they almost write themselves from that brilliant two, three weeks in Flushing Meadows. And I hope you enjoy as ever, I'm sure it's going to bring lots of thoughts you've got yourself, please do share them. Get in touch with us. And hey, give it a like give the give the podcast a like on your platform. Share it far and wide. And we hope you're still enjoying all of these episodes. But all over, I pass to our US Open 2023 Review panelists,  Our US Open 2023 Review panelists a big welcome. How are you all doing? Great. Good. Good. Thanks.

Freddie Nielsen  02:54

How great to have some champions on the podcast.

Daniel Kiernan  02:59

A champion very much an unbelievable champion, Gaby Dabrowski and Erin Routliffe the women's doubles champions of US Open 2023 So how are you feeling Gabby?

Gaby Dabrowski  03:10

Amazing! It comes in waves I think because I'm still so switched on because we have tournaments coming up and still have to prepare and do like a lot of admin and bookings and phone calls and all this stuff. So yeah, but really great feeling and a huge thanks to you for helping so much. It really made a difference.

Daniel Kiernan  03:35

Thank you for allowing me to be a small, a small part of the fortnight it was it was an amazing couple of weeks and a big big, big well done to you and Erin and I've already decided we need to get the two of you on and have you have your own podcast because having spent the last few weeks with you guys, I think you should have your own podcast anyway. You know, we get Erin in front of a microphoneand then seeing your face and then seeing what happens next is is newsworthy for everyone and you know seeing how it all came together was was absolutely fantastic and anyone I'm speaking to this week, it does feel very surreal, you know the whole thing and it's not something I've experienced before but to be around that special achievement this weekend. It's like did it happen? you know and did even the whole US Open happen because in our sport and you know Freddie, you've you've experienced this as well. And Gabby you're talking about moving on to the to the next tournament already and we've talked lots Andy Murray won the Olympics and then the next morning he flew off to play Washington. You know in other sports people seem to have time to enjoy these achievements and reflect on these achievements whereas I found myself back on the tennis court which is a place I love to be but straight back in at the academy, you're finding yourself going off to the next next event. Freddie was that something when when you back when you won Wimbledon Was that something that you were able to enjoy at the time? Is it something that comes later? You know, how do you reflect on that period as well?

Freddie Nielsen  05:17

It came in two parts. The first part was I went back home for a week and said yes to everything. So whatever it was invited to had friends and family over so the first week, I didn't sleep. I was so tired. I overslept for a morning TV interview, even though I knew I was going to so to be so tired, worried I was going to sleep over. So I slept in my couch with my phone on basically on my face with 15 alarms to make sure that it woke me up and I still didn't wake up. But but then I went. Then I went straight to the Olympics to be the hitting partner for Caroline. That was the first thing I did after the after Wimbledon. But then at the end of the season, when all the we have all these end of the year programs and sporting events, then it kind of came back a little bit. And then I had time to celebrate a little bit on my own and have some have some bigger parties. We had a we had some pretty big parties after the after the World Tour finals in London, where there was also pretty fun he went to the World Tour finals in London lost the semi finals, had some big nights out then had to do ATP University afterwards where we had to be in school and learn about the ATP. And then we got a tour of the O2 arena where we saw where the players locker rooms were stuff that was pretty strange.

Daniel Kiernan  06:34

I want So what's one bit of advice for Gabby

Freddie Nielsen  06:38

Milk it

Gaby Dabrowski  06:40

Oh I thought you were going to say don't do that.

Freddie Nielsen  06:42

Oh, milk it, take it, take it take advantage of it. It's a it's a great experience. You're a very good player, you're probably going to have chances to win some more but you never know and people don't get on to it. I always remember Hussey Stephen Huss telling me that when he won Wimbledon, he was in Wimbledon and he didn't really have any of his friends and family to celebrate with because he was obviously an Australian so it was kind of a little bit of anticlimactic. But don't underestimate how big a win this is and take it all in and milk it that's what I would recommend. Don't do anything you wouldn't want to do. I had some I was pretty good at not saying I told you I said yes to everything. But then after that I didn't I had the opportunities to do many weird things. But I was also I had some I had some spine so don't just do stupid stuff for the sake of doing stupid stuff. Do what you want to do.

Gaby Dabrowski  07:35

Do we get to know what the weird things were?

Freddie Nielsen  07:38

Oh, no, what I was just participating in stupid TV shows. And I had a I had a I had a book deal and these kinds of things. And all of a sudden people wanted to want a little bit of a piece  just because I was flavor of the day then.

Gaby Dabrowski  07:52

Yeah, got it.

Daniel Kiernan  07:53

What's one TV show, Emily that we'd want Freddie Nielsen to be on?

Emily Webley-Smith  08:00

Gabs have you shared my knowledge on TV, to be asked this question this

Gaby Dabrowski  08:04

I was gonna be like

Emily Webley-Smith  08:05

Not my area Dan.

Daniel Kiernan  08:09

Vossie.

Kieron Vorster  08:09

Oh, yeah. Put let's get him in front of Piers Morgan. Uncut and uncensored of

Daniel Kiernan  08:16

Oh, see, I want to see him on Strictly Come Dancing. That's that's the that's my that's my choice. You've got that in Denmark as well haven't you?

Freddie Nielsen  08:27

Yeah, I was asked a few times to be honest.

Daniel Kiernan  08:30

Were you? I look like I'm having an epileptic seizure when I do dance. In rhythm?

08:44

They asked me a few times. First of all I had I have a rule I don't do TV shows that I wouldn't want to watch myself. And second of all, it's pretty tough. You have to take like eight or 10 weeks out of your calendar to do it. I'm not ready to do that. And so there was there was just no chance. But even now, if I was asked now, I would never do it. No chance I'm gonna dance on national TV. Ain't happening. Would you take that offer up? Gabby? The Canadian version? Um, yeah. Why not? Dancing is fun. I like it. Yeah, that's copy she had done.

Daniel Kiernan  09:15

Let's start scheduling 2024.

Freddie Nielsen  09:19

They asked me to do Master Chef as well. And then the second season, they came back and said, We want to ask you for Master Chef again. But this time, it's the partnership one. So it's kinda like doubles. Now would you want to do that? No.

Gaby Dabrowski  09:34

I would be terrible at that. I feel like I don't like that. I don't

Emily Webley-Smith  09:38

I know you'd just be like, is there UberEATS?

Gaby Dabrowski  09:44

I'd be like do you have peanut butter.

Daniel Kiernan  09:48

I want to move on with the storylines. And I don't want this to be all about Gaby. Gaby's win, and, I mean,

Emily Webley-Smith  09:56

Can we make it about your two wins? Winning double coach,

Daniel Kiernan  10:04

Oh, it's about bloody time I tell you what, Gaby getting all this credit as I was waiting for this.

Emily Webley-Smith  10:09

I feel like we should be interviewing you Dan

Daniel Kiernan  10:12

Well, what I was gonna say as I was too busy coaching players to win grand slams, I don't really know the other storylines that happened.So I'm gonna need you guys to tell me what happened. And my bloody TV, in that, you know, beautiful hotel room in New York. You know, you get back and you think what's what you're going to do in New York on a on an evening back to the room, you put on the night match. It's just like, it's like the perfect end to a day. And there was a massive dispute between ESPN and Spectrum cable, which meant the whole of bloody New York's cable was down and ESPN wasn't playing, so you couldn't watch the matches. Which was, which was not so it's a genuinely, the storylines were quite difficult to pick up. So. So I'm gonna have to throw that to you guys. And Vossie what we spoke about lots of things in the preview before the US Open happened. And, you know, we talked from from scheduling, which seems to be a big one we like to talk about, we talked about the PTPA. We talked about the Saudis potentially coming into tennis. You know, those were obviously hot topics that were discussed throughout the event. But what what are some of the standout storylines for you over the last couple of weeks.

Kieron Vorster  11:32

I mean, obviously, the PTPA, were making some noise. Whilst they were there, obviously, the ATP announced the baseline figures for players for the next three years if you're top 100, and top 101 to 175 175 to 250. So I thought that was that was quite big news. Having gone through the numbers, I think the baseline numbers are too low. I think when you when you look at the players in the top 100 prize money right now they've made about 600 grand, if you if you end up your ranking is between 1 and 101, you're guaranteed 300 grand next year. If you keep himself inside the top 100, it's nowhere near what the baseline figures are. But it's a start. But the ptpa were jumping on about, you know, how, you know, a little bit of pressure, you know, being put on the ATP, and, you know, all of a sudden, they're coming out with these numbers. I mean, this is this has been a work in progress for the last four years. I think the biggest problem with the PTPA is that they're not even sitting down with the player councils of either the WTA or the ATP. And then they just and the reason why they can't is because they don't have strong leadership so they can't go in there with demands. And basically say if you don't meet our demands, we're going to strike which is basically what what they should be doing or should be saying because they just don't have the player power behind them to back that up. And there's always going to be players wanting to play so. So the baseline thing was was an interesting one that was was discussed. The other one was in the coach's meeting where the number of seats in the coach's box and also coaching box location it seems this doesn't seem to be a standardized location at each event like in in Toronto, you might not have been a top tier you know, you're so far away from the court.

Daniel Kiernan  13:44

It felt like that a little bit on Arthur Ashe if your players weren't looking at you

Kieron Vorster  13:52

I don't blame them not looking at you.

Daniel Kiernan  13:56

At least give me your ear. It felt like yeah to Foghorn anything out and then and then I then found out. I was speaking to Aaron sisters and potentially we said a couple of things we shouldn't have said and then somebody said to me do you know there's a microphone there? I was like oh god I'm really a rookie at this

Kieron Vorster  14:18

Yeah. because one of Thomas' comments were to Serrana was just hit the ball in the blue.

Daniel Kiernan  14:24

Yes, it was I heard that

Kieron Vorster  14:26

That was put on Twitter, they said coaching tip for Serrana hit the ball in the blue.

Daniel Kiernan  14:33

It's a starting point but it is it I found as coaches we maybe our egos like to think we're helping more than we are but.

Kieron Vorster  14:45

That was another thing that the coaches said there's the need to take the mics out of the coaching box, they say because you could have a situation where you'd be giving information to your player and somebody else on TV, he has it, who knows the other coach and could find them and say, This is what they're saying.

Daniel Kiernan  15:06

Yeah, well, that could happen for sure.

Gaby Dabrowski  15:08

That's why I thought they had the on court coaching thing. It's like I was told there would be on court coaching for like a minute, minute and a half of advice, why wouldn't someone watching just then tell the coach or the other player? But then not only the microphones in the box, but the cameras in the building? I think that's another thing that needs to be looked at. Because there are too many, like private moments that are being publicized.

Daniel Kiernan  15:35

Yeah, I mean, the big one, the big one, Emily on that was, I'm sure you saw Sabalenka.

Emily Webley-Smith  15:42

Tweet about that. An absolute disgrace.

Daniel Kiernan  15:45

But then from there, though, there's then people saying, Yeah, but she's got the Netflix camera on as well, at the same time.

Kieron Vorster  15:51

No, but however, however, when when Netflix produced the episode, the player can say, I want that taken out, or I don't agree, that needs to come out that

Daniel Kiernan  16:05

you're sure about that. 

Kieron Vorster  16:07

100%

Daniel Kiernan  16:08

No, I was told that's not allowed

Emily Webley-Smith  16:12

Clearly, she didn't know the cameras were on there at that moment.

Kieron Vorster  16:15

Like I know, with Netflix, the player has the player can screen it before it goes in, agree to have things taken out. I know that for a fact. That's not raw and uncensored.

Daniel Kiernan  16:27

Yeah, in terms of the privacy. What what happens with that? Is that summit that the players I know that was a lot of people talking about it, but what what's the steps on that? Is that something that  I'm sure that the players have signed a disclaimer to say that there are cameras rolling, there would be a legal document that they would have signed, agreeing to the terms and conditions. Because there were there were cameras in the gym, both where the stringer was and upstairs Are we not being a little bit hypocritical here because we've talked a lot about growing the sport allowing people in, you know, we want to we want to understand people a little bit more we want to we want to see the vulnerable side of people. You know, tennis is in in this bad place. And I actually thought US Open did a really good job actually on social media throughout the couple of weeks, you know, of just little little snippets that they that they were putting out there that was giving us a little bit of a look in into what's actually happening. And then on the on the subject of and Freddy, I'll bring you in here on the on the subject of it's a dying sports. They sold 957,000 tickets at the US Open or more and a few more that the US Open this year. Ground passes were going for $280 during Labor Weekend, Saturday Sunday Monday sold out you know couldn't couldn't get a ticket in town. I mean, walking through the site was absolute manic it was it was it was clearly an incredibly well supported event. They had the fan week and I heard the numbers are up 41% this year from from last year. Brilliant idea and idea that absolutely all Grand Slams, all tournaments should take on you know, they were letting letting people in for free to go and watch their qualifying matches. The stadiums were packed, you know, obviously selling merchandise selling food, you know, good for the good for the tournament, but amazing for getting to know the players. And there's an atmosphere for the players. You know, you think Wimbledon you're playing basically on a on a cricket pitch. Yeah, you know, and here you are in the qualifying event, you know, proper tennis players,

Kieron Vorster  18:46

And they're charging you 15 quid on that.

Daniel Kiernan  18:48

Yeah. So you know what, what an amazing thing. So tennis doesn't seem to be dying to me.

Freddie Nielsen  18:55

Well, there's more to tennis than just the Slams. And I think the Slams have such a big name that it will always be a big event in itself, regardless of who's participating and whatnot. So I don't think it's fair to put tennis under the bracket up the Slams. I think it's more the rest of the tour and a lot of the 250s and all the conditions you know, you see some of the Davis Cup and all this. So there's much more to tennis but but I also said that I've always said that I think that tennis isn't as dying as everybody is making up to be and therefore we should still protect the sport and the basics of the sport and but I'm also very minority person because I never I didn't find people agree with me but I would be okay to not make as much money if it meant protecting the basics of the sport and I'm I'm worried just for my own personal liking of changing the scoring too much making it a completely different game to cater to new fans and whatnot. And I'm much more into keeping the sport as it is. And with the slams as the, the flagships of the sport, I think we're strong enough to keep them too.

Daniel Kiernan  20:14

So what is it, Emily, that attracts people to the Grand Slams that we can't bring to the masters 1000s, the five hundreds, the, the 250s and down if there's, there's an appetite for the sport. There's an appetite, obviously for star names, you know, but why can't we replicate that other other parts of the sport?

Emily Webley-Smith  20:42

I think generally people have knowledge of the four big tournaments. If you ask the average person, it would in the States, they would know what the Open is. Whereas I think if you ask them, if they knew about the San Diego tournament this week, I don't think they would know about it. So clearly, the way that they're marketed is not going to be the same. But I think the the way that, that it's so accessible for people to come and watch something like the US Open, but to watch the matches on the outside court that close, I think people find that interesting, who don't know, tennis that well is to actually see close up, and to actually feel it a bit more with players and players walking around. Whereas I think if it's just stadium courts, or one other court, I think people who can't buy tickets or who don't want to sit there for for a whole day or a final just aren't interested. But I don't know, I think globally is I think the marketing of tennis needs a total revamp. Still, regardless of those facts that you suggested. That's great that the ticket sales were like that for US. So they're clearly doing a better job than than most. But I think it's I think it's interesting that that quality is weak, I get so many messages from people, housing people and families that I've stayed with, who are so excited to go to that qualifying week to see if their players can qualify and then follow them through all the way through to that end later in their career. And I think Wimbledon could do a better job with that. I think people would be really excited to see that, that kind of that stage beforehand, before you get to the main event. And people trying to give their best to qualify. I think it's exciting for anyone because it's like a chance it's like a lottery ticket with a lot of hard work behind it.

Daniel Kiernan  21:32

Because I, I mean, Gaby doesn't give me much time off at these tournaments. So I used to have quite an easy life with Harri and Lloyd. But she is she works. She works a lot harder. But I did manage to escape for a couple of hours on a couple of evenings to a couple of baseball matches, you know, and I went to see the Mets and I went to see the Yankees, just because I'm a sports geek, if I'm honest. And I went to watch these baseball games, and it's a bit shite to be honest. I mean, it's like, oh, it was a bit like what but but the thing that I also went to Miami Heat earlier in the year. Now the one thing that each of those events I've gone to, they've pretty much been packed. I think the the mats were like 59 and 65. I mean, my maths is not likely to work it out quickly. But it's roughly 124 matches, you know so it's it's it's a lot of games that are being played like a crazy amount and the same you see the same with the basketball. Same with the basketball teams as well. Yet you still got people like myself, there were sports enthusiasts that had gone I want that ticket, I'll pay for that ticket. I want to go and experience that. So what is it that they're doing from a marketing standpoint? Because I'm not a baseball fan, I'm a sports fan you know so what what is it that they're doing that is enticing someone like me and 1000s of others to pretty much sell out stadiums that many times throughout the year

Emily Webley-Smith  24:21

But Dan having been once would you go again given your experience? So it might entice you in once but it doesn't keep you there.

Daniel Kiernan  24:30

I don't know about that. I went I went to the Mets and then I went to the Yankees the week after

Emily Webley-Smith  24:35

but you thought it was not very good

Daniel Kiernan  24:36

yeah, it was there was something nostalgic about it

Emily Webley-Smith  24:44

I mean is Do you think people come to tennis and then they don't and then they actually don't enjoy the day or do you think they're just not coming to start with?

Daniel Kiernan  24:51

I'm not sure i i am a bit I'm a been a bit unfair to I did I enjoy the experience? Did I did quite like the experience probably, I bought caps, I bought, I collect shot glasses. It's not that I drink a lot of alcohol. I just like shot classes wherever I go around the world. I, I took it in, it was quite enjoyed it was enjoyable. I would love to take my kids to experience it. So yeah, I would go again, I think, but without being absolutely blown away by it, I would go again. So but then you also

Freddie Nielsen  25:25

went, you also went to the biggest market, you didn't go to the Oakland A's or the Kansas City Royals, or any of the other teams

Daniel Kiernan  25:32

I would have if I was in Kansas City,

Freddie Nielsen  25:35

But they don't manage to get the same kind of crowd set up. That's what I mean. So you're comparing like, the biggest markets in the sport, you know, it's not like you wouldn't go to triple A or double A or whatever.

Daniel Kiernan  25:46

Okay, but let's take Coco Gauff sensation, and we're gonna get the Coco because she's going to be amazing, is amazing for women's tennis, in my opinion. You know, I think she's someone that we all like. And she's really difficult not to like, I think she's got a fantastic personality. Her speech was out of this world. She's young, she's smart. She brings so so so so much. And then you've got Carlos Alcaraz, you've got these, they're playing 20 tournaments a year. So I'm not even talking about, you know, we'd love for people to have that same enthusiasm for players that are 200 300 400 in the world, because they deserve that as well. Because the level of tennis is incredible. However, I'm talking about the superstars, the superstars of our game, are playing 20 tournaments a year. And a lot of those tournaments aren't well, well watched. Why?

Kieron Vorster  26:44

I probably think that the biggest stars in the game could do more for sport when you compare if you compare Break Point to the golf one, you know, you have McIlroy who is a top top golfer, you know, he was doing huge amounts of interviews and follow you know, we haven't seen Nadal we haven't seen in Break Point wherever seen Djokovic be interviewed. We haven't seen any of the big stars. Yeah, and I think, you know, Alcaraz and Coco Gauff are the up and coming ones, you know, will be established as superstars in years to come. Don't get me wrong. Yeah, but I think I think from a marketing perspective, there could be a lot better ideas that they could do, to get to, to get them engaged. I think, you know, I think like, you know, when you practice on this purpose, four or five courts at the front, I know with golfers they give a lot of time back to the fans. It's been hit or miss whether the players coming off those courts are gonna go and engage with the fans and have autographs and photos, or just walk straight back into the players area. And what they forget about is, you know, they're not in the sport of tennis, they're in the entertainment business. And if they're not entertaining and punters aren't paying the money to come and watch, it'll eventually die out.

Daniel Kiernan  28:06

Xavier spoke about this on one of our panels. And he said he wished he'd known as a player how important that stuff was, you know, and now he's playing the legends He'll have a cigar and he'll have a beer with the, with the corporate people. Okay, you might not do that if he's playing at the top end. But he said he didn't quite realize how important that was for building relationships. And then

Kieron Vorster  28:32

whether they realize it, whether it's just an ignorant, ignorant standpoint of view that they've they're not so caught up myopically in what they're doing. They forget about what's the bigger picture. And you know, what they've got to realize is, you know, obviously, there's life after tennis as well. And so, you know, whilst, whilst you're in there, you should really be giving back as much as you can, you know, what can you do for the fan base? That's what you got to think about? You're an entertainer. You're not a tennis player.

Freddie Nielsen  29:01

It's a tough one though, isn't it? Because I'm sure that if you guys were, first of all, I think Vossie is spot on to compare to golf. The other ones are vastly different. Where you have contracts and stuff. And you're a team sport, and you play half a year, and then you don't play so golf is probably much more comparable. But if you were the coaches of Novak, would you really recommend him to play more than this

Kieron Vorster  29:23

No, but what people are forgetting as well. So people say they play 20 weeks a year. Yeah. So four of those tournaments are the three week events. So they're the week before and the two weeks off. So it was that 12 weeks. And then if you plan the nine Master series, you know those those are not two week events, that's 30 weeks right there. That they're playing out a 52 week year. If you think of it that if you think of it like like that, and then and then over and above that, what they've claimed maybe five 500 So that's 35 weeks of the year, actually playing tournaments. People go 20 touranaments that's not a lot, you know, but actually cut claim what they've got a blackout in their calendar weeks, it's 30-35 weeks, doesn't leave you much time. Whereas in golf, if you're playing 20 tournaments, that's, that's 20 weeks.

Daniel Kiernan  30:13

And I think just on that point before I want to jump into, to the women's singles event, you all right, Freddie, it's, it's probably it isn't the great comparison. And I guess, as as, as you guys are just talking about, I'm thinking, well, actually, I've bought into the brand of New York Yankees, I couldn't have told you one of their players. And I guess that but I can tell you that they've been around since 1903. Because it says it on the cap that I bought for $30. You know, so like, it's, it's been going it's so deep rooted as a brand, that that's what we're buying into. And I guess tennis players come and go, I know that Federer has got his brand, but then they were waiting for the next. So there's not a team that you are buying into you're buying into a player. I think that's one of the things that makes it very difficult. And I think,

Freddie Nielsen  31:04

But the slams are always there. And I think that's why they have just a stronger brand or as in most sporting brands in the world or tournaments, because they're going to be there regardless.

Daniel Kiernan  31:17

Yeah. And that's, that's where I think it's at. And I think we need to keep celebrating that because it was it was an absolutely incredible event. In everywhere. You know, I really do. I think it was it was a special event to be part of, but in terms of in terms of the women's singles, you know, Well done team. We've, we all stepped up with the Coco pick. She went she went 18 and one on the on the heart, hardcourt swing. People are saying the the importance of bringing in the right coach, you know, and whether whether people can have whatever they want to say about Brad Gilbert. But it was only. Yeah, and Brad Gilbert's the one that's talked about, and we'll get into that in a minute. And I think that's that's an important point as well. And a bit but six, eight weeks ago, she hadn't even won a 500 You know, then she's gone 500, 1000 Grand Slam in that period. I saw this on social media, a lot of people talking and well respect to people that was saying, she's got Brad Gilbert and that Spanish guy. You know, and then people kept on popping in and, and putting, and this is bad as well, because I it's I don't know his exact name. Here Pere Riba there you go. So and that's, he absolutely deserves, deserves the credit and everyone within that team. So about well done. 

Freddie Nielsen  32:48

Jarmere Jenkins as well.

Daniel Kiernan  32:51

Yeah he's been he's been with her for a couple of years now.

Freddie Nielsen  32:55

I'm not sure that long

Daniel Kiernan  32:58

Okay. So a big, big well done to them. I want to bring this to you, Emily, because I'm gonna I'm gonna pose the question Iga, she couldn't lose. She was the one that comes up with all of our picks all of the time. But it just, it's probably a bit unfair to say that she's lost form. But she hasn't quite dominated as much as we thought she might this year.

Emily Webley-Smith  33:24

I think, overall, I just think with, with Iga and with the way that she plays as well, the intensity that she brings to each point and how much energy she uses mentally to win the matches that she does as concisely as she does, I think it just shows that the difference that looks like a lot is actually not as much as people think when she drops that level a little bit and somebody else raises their's that that's enough for it to make a difference. But I loved her. I don't know if you saw her statement yesterday, or the day before that she came out and said, I thought it was brilliant. I thought it was said with such strength. And I think it was great that she actually came out and said that, that she did and I think it's a great example to everyone. Little ones, people who are at the top people who are trying to get to the top people who are struggling, you know, I think it was I think it was really smart. And I don't think she did that to be a smart move. I think she did it because it was honest. And she wanted people to understand. But I think it that comment before US Open was an interesting one. Because I think I mean, you're giving away quite a lot by saying that.

Daniel Kiernan  34:43

They do I think these press conferences. It's massive really, you know, like yeah, you if you listen to them carefully, you you often get nugget after nugget

Emily Webley-Smith  34:54

I mean sometimes you can just see that by looking at someone in a player's lounge or you know, you can see that energy that they're giving out or that they're not giving out. But I think you can't underestimate the stress and the you know the pressure that somebody like Iga's under even though for a long time she she looked like she was dealing with it incredibly well I think it must take its toll at some point. And also

Daniel Kiernan  35:19

Gabby I remember you texted me as this match was going on  with this record matchups. matchups count. Right, you know, and that's the that's the beauty of our sport. You know, you'll have you know, Vossie we were just speaking earlier Evo loves playing de Minaur just beat him today in the Davis Cup. Andy Murray can hardly get games off de Minaur you know, like the way that it kind of goes. And you know, Ostapenko Was she might Darkhorse by the way Ostapenko

Kieron Vorster  35:52

4-0 against Swiatek never lost to her.

Daniel Kiernan  35:54

That was French Open. Yeah, she was 3-0 obviously before before that match, and you could I think it was Judy again. That was a great tweet from Judy, you know, and props to Judy, for saying this. She said, I can see the stress and Iga's box, they are seriously anxious today. You know, in the first couple of games, you know, Ostapenko brings a brand of tennis, a brand of personality, that stirs shit up with Iga, you know, and that that ultimately proved and I guess the draws mean something because, you know, she avoids Ostapenko You know, she Rybakina is another one that she seems to have had a little bit of problems with, you know, people that can can put her under pressure. You know, I actually I actually think she beats Coco. In those bigger moments. I know she lost in Cincinnati, but I think that's a much better matchup for her. But tell us about matchups, Gaby, you know that the same Singles Doubles? You know, how, how important are those matchups for how you feel as a player that comfort you feel, you know, there's obviously some players that just naturally make us feel a little bit more uncomfortable. And maybe, you know, relay that into into the ego against ostapenko match up as well.

Gaby Dabrowski  37:10

Yeah, completely, I watched that whole match. And you could see that ego was quite distressed when the match started to turn in the second set. And it's true that her box also had the same kind of vibe to them. It's interesting, though, that it's that type of game style, in particular, with the heavier conditions this year with the heavier ball because Iga was someone who was very vocal about wanting to use the heavier ball versus the lighter ball even though last year, she won the US Open with the lighter ball. And, and a lot of players agreed. And then now we have the heavier ball. And now she's played someone like Ostapenko. And maybe maybe the ball flying through the air, not as much with, you know, as much revolution as it would with the lighter ball all of a sudden Ostapenko is you know, maybe not late on any of her shots and just hitting it way too clean for two sets. And there was nothing that Iga could do or almost looked like she would have had to change her game style to be able to try to win that match throwing in maybe some more Moon balls, some short slices, some drop shots coming forward more and it didn't look like she was really prepared to do that. So yeah, I think it is really interesting with the matchups, but also the matchups on a particular surface in specific conditions. There are definitely teams that I've played in doubles before where I've thought, Oh, if I played them on grass, I'd be loving this, but I'm playing them on clay and it's a lot harder or vice versa.

Daniel Kiernan  38:41

Isn't that not just the same with clay always for all of us this is not a good matchup

Freddie Nielsen  38:54

You beat me on play.

Gaby Dabrowski  38:56

Oh, yeah. Next. I like next though on every surface. But it's interesting also, how Rybakina Is it? Did Vossie say Rybakina has also been Iga several times.

Daniel Kiernan  39:09

I said that

Gaby Dabrowski  39:12

So it's interesting because I would say Rybakina and Ostapenko have a similar style of play or hitting baseliners that can handle a heavy ball. It's really interesting.

Daniel Kiernan  39:25

And then I was in the stadium for the final and Coco had an absolute shocker. Like, it was like she has zero chance of winning this match. Like she could hardly connect with a forehand. It looked like she couldn't handle Sabalenka at all. It was like okay, she's This is Oh my god, what a disappointment. This is going to be a two and two, two and one. Thank you very much. But Sabalenka You know, she keeps getting herself in these positions? How much of that is Sabalenka And her challenges, we all have our own emotional challenges, but challenges in those big moments? And how much is this about Coke or golf? And her ability to find solutions?

Kieron Vorster  40:18

I think it's the former rather than the latter. And I think basically, then, you believe belief mechanism kicks in. Based on the self destruct mechanism, Coco, obviously grew in confidence, and belief. And then yeah, then the rest of the rest is history. It's obviously sad to see, but she wins more matches than she loses these days. You know, and obviously, that one hurt a lot, which, which we discussed earlier, as we saw after the match. So basically one of those things, you go again, you brush it off. Yeah. Don't waste energy going over history. Try and stay in the moment now and move forward from it. So hopefully learn from it and just brush it off and go.

Emily Webley-Smith  41:14

World number one, so it's not it's not too bad.

Kieron Vorster  41:17

Yeah, exactly. Well said

Daniel Kiernan  41:20

I mean, she, she gets the ball so well, oh, my goodness. It's an absolute false light with such intensity, a backhand, like just every junior player in the world, get that backhand on slow motion, and, you know, copy the way she gets through it. So so just stunningly every, every single time. You know, she's, she's an incredible, incredible tennis player, and I think a great personality for the sport as well. You know, I think she's someone that is in her and Medvedev. Those two should have their own podcast as well. You know, they into the state, they always seem to bring something out. But what was your What was your take? On the final end? What the? Did you what it what did you see happening? Did you see Coco or getting back into it? And how do you from a tactical standpoint, what did you see that Coco did that maybe, and all that we've said that Sabalenka maybe struggled a little bit mentally. But there was there was a definite adjustment, I think the core core made as well.

Emily Webley-Smith  42:22

I think that when she started, I actually don't think she looked particularly nervous to start with. But her game was showing that she was. So I think it was one of those, one of those things where she kind of needed to hit her way into it. But then at the same time was kind of trying to make Sabalenka play almost. So it was like, she was kind of contradicting what she was doing and just getting in a muddle. That's what it looked like in the first set, she would hit one and she would miss then she try and bring it back then then it wasn't enough. And then she just couldn't find any happy medium and what she was doing. But it's interesting, like, I think the way that she turned it around, just by sticking in there, and by, you know, forcing things to happen by just being there. And by fighting. That, for me is a much more interesting competitive match in terms of the actual competition and somebody getting involved when when it's not going well, then when someone just plays lights out, and it's nothing you can do about it. Definitely. So yeah, I think it was a great example, to everyone watching. I also liked in previous rounds, when coaches were telling her what to do when she did the opposite and backed herself. I think that was quite cool. I think she's got a lot of strength in her in inner strength in her in herself, which, which really comes through

Freddie Nielsen  43:47

She also tells her coaches, to just be quiet or stop talking please.

Emily Webley-Smith  43:54

Literally, like love that I don't even mind that. Like she knew what she had to do. And she was just gonna, she was gonna stick to it. And that was pretty. Yeah, good on her. But I think I just think it was gritty. I think there's a really gritty final. It wasn't great watching from a tennis point of view. Certainly in the first set. There was so many mistakes on easy balls from both of them, to be honest. But it shows how hard it is. And I think so often we see this brilliant level produced that we just think that everyone can produce all the time in a final because we've been lucky with that on the men's side, that's for sure. And it's not that easy. And then they were just fighting and gritting away. And one of them dealt with it better than the other one.

Daniel Kiernan  44:36

But what I I felt I was watching was something I've watched pretty much nonstop for the last 14 years. Living in Spain, there was Spanish influence massively and and the rule the Spanish rule. And I see it you see it it from it from under 10s all the way through to the pros The Spanish rule is if you're struggling play up. That's what they teach. If you're struggling, play up, and especially with Coco's forehand, the grips gone round so far, she massively massively struggles to release the racket out of her hand. You know, it gets stuck, she gets caught in the shot, unbelievable amounts. And when you've got quite an Extreme Grip, you have to be able to release the racket, the racket head out of the hand. And all they were telling her and I think this is more Spanish influence than this is Brad Gilbert influence is play up, play up. And she missed one forehand and the net and they went nuts at her. No, no, no, you do not miss the forehand in the net. And she didn't actually hit a forehand for that, well, if you watch that match, even in the next two sets, but what she did is she played up. And once she started playing up, she started to get Sabalenka to to make contact with the ball above her shoulders a little bit more, she got a little bit more depth, all of a sudden, Saba Lanka didn't have the high territory that she had. And then what I thought was really interesting was Sabalenka started then imitating this kind of Spanish forehand. You know, like she was it was clearly annoying her because because her only tactic was hit the ball to the forehand. And she went to six, two, and almost went six to one love by just any opportunity bang into the forehand. And, and I think it was honestly as basic is that now the fighting spirit? Absolutely. The movement of Coco is phenomenal, you know, and you have to, you have to be able to move incredibly well for that game style to work. And then her ability, then in on the left leg on her backhand, I thought was, was absolutely phenomenal, her way to counter attack in that position, you know, and she's got a beautiful backhand and can really hurt. But even the two or three winners, I saw a hit on the forehand. They weren't it cleanly. You know, it was she she changed line with the forehand she pushed, which is a Spanish pattern. That's all I know, it's not just Spanish, it's worldwide. But that's very much the Spanish teaching, you know, you play a high, you push them back on a diagonal on their backhand, you know, as sublangka I thought her movement was exposed, you know, she then dropped a couple short and then Coco managed to kind of just get another one into into the other corner. And it was it was so good for me to see that we're talking about the best players in the world. But we're still talking about doing the basics extremely well. You know, nobody was pulling any rabbits out the hat you know, but hard work grit, determination, and small tactical changes of just play the ball flipping higher. It goes on and wins the Grand Slam and I think it was really really good to see. So before before we move on, unless anyone wants to challenge me on that which I'm also open to how many Grand Slams has Coco gonna win

Freddie Nielsen  48:05

I think she's one of the ones who is more likely to be sustainable and stay in the top. Simply because you said it all with character and grit. I am gonna give you a very vague answer but I am gonna say double digits.

Kieron Vorster  48:22

But what that could be 45

Freddie Nielsen  48:25

It could also be 99

Kieron Vorster  48:30

Oh my god Freddie way to sit on the fence my boy

Freddie Nielsen  48:34

Okay, so then be direct Give me Give me your best shot.

Kieron Vorster  48:38

I'm gonna say 11

Freddie Nielsen  48:40

Okay, so we're both right.

Gaby Dabrowski  48:41

That's what I was gonna say. I was also gonna say 11 because it's my favorite number though.

Emily Webley-Smith  48:48

So when there's a podcast in like 2035 are we gonna have a review of like how many slams

Kieron Vorster  48:55

we got we can't review for this because it's just double digits

Daniel Kiernan  48:59

well I'm gonna I'm gonna go head to head with Freddie and say it's going to be single digits

Emily Webley-Smith  49:07

Six

Daniel Kiernan  49:09

Yeah, I'm not sure she'll reach double digits is a lot of Grand Slams guys I think we've got so carried away with with this era of like,

Freddie Nielsen  49:18

but she's still like five years old

Emily Webley-Smith  49:21

Dan you're a fifth of the way there to double digits

Daniel Kiernan  49:24

But the easy these grand slam things I mean, you know you just got to three it's bloody tough any any grand slam and to get to double digits is like there's a lot of stars got to align for that.

Freddie Nielsen  49:39

There has to be but also she came around young age so there's gonna be some wear and tear. But I think double digits first she seems she seems on. I'm gonna Okay, I'm gonna be more very less vague. I'm gonna say 14.

Daniel Kiernan  49:53

Geez, that's a lot

Kieron Vorster  49:55

is really thank God for that. Well done, boy.

Daniel Kiernan  50:00

And wow, that was great. What a great speech when she said, Thank you to everyone that doesn't believe in me, you know, and I thought that was such a such a nice way of turning.

Freddie Nielsen  50:10

But I want to counter that. Who did not believe in her? Honestly,

Daniel Kiernan  50:14

I think there was a lot of journalists. I mean, I think it's really interesting. She said, she reads Twitter. And this is another thing, people listening, please read Twitter a lot more than you might realize, or X, as people call it. But, you know, she, she said, I know all of the journalists and I know you by i know you by name. I know, I know, your Twitter handles, I know what you've said. And I think it's just it's it. This is not for today. But we need to have a podcast on this at some point where we talk about what is it that drives people, and I think, very often what drives people is proving

Emily Webley-Smith  50:50

people wrong. She's got a fire in her belly.

Daniel Kiernan  50:53

There's a healthy side to that. And there's a not too healthy side to that. But I think you do get like Michael Jordan, Michael Jordan documentary, he was like, he would like pick a fight with the bin man like Boston Celtics, and all of a sudden, right, I'm gonna show that guy, you know, and the bin man didn't even know he had a problem with him, but he just created this like constant needle to be able to do it. And I think I think most I think you'll find most athletes work in that way. And that it's that it's it's almost this the what she she's talked about, you know, you put you put gas on or put fuel on my fire, you know, you put water on my face, you know, and I think she'd she'd obviously done it, Jess Pegula. She picked out the Tennis Podcast, and said, you know, she'd said about her crying on the court. And she came off and she said, what you're talking about, I got my ass kicked in under an hour, wasn't crying, I was walking off court ready for my doubles? You know, and she kind of picked someone out in the in the, in the press conference and said, You I can see you I know who you are the tennis podcast. You know, these players they take stuff personally, you know, and I think I think that's great. I think having these interactions is is a good thing. And I I'm all I'm all for it, you know, there are a lot more tangible players nowadays you can you can get a lot closer than once upon a time we used to be able to the men's side. And I want to start big talking point for me, I don't know how much this went noticed. And Carlos Alcaraz the name that, we're already given him 20 Grand Slams as well. But you know, he he's obviously incredible. He's dynamic he's everything that you want from a tennis player. But his coach is calling his plays, you know, and that that, for me was actually a massive, massive revelation. You know, and I know that that will happen at times. But, you know, picking up these microphones in the boxes, it seemed to be the Medvedev match that literally play by play saying serve there do that no, this is a serve volley. This is yet as youngsters that we're coaching Freddie, where we're coaching, independence and independent thinkers and tennis players have to be able to find solutions to problems and where it's where this the greatest player on the planet currently, Novak Djokovic might have something to say about that. But the one that everyone is talking about, has a coach, that's telling him where to hit the tennis ball. So are we going wrong with this coaching independent players? And do we actually need the players to be more dependent? And we need to direct it a little bit more? I know. I don't know. I don't know what you think?

Freddie Nielsen  53:52

Well, I think it's a good question. I obviously when you when you bring up the kids is because you are going to expect them to be able to play by themselves. And without having any help. Obviously, the rules have changed. So now Carlos can get help every single match you place.

Emily Webley-Smith  54:07

So can the kids from futures onwards now they're trialing at ITF? The last couple of weeks?

Daniel Kiernan  54:12

They can they can.

Freddie Nielsen  54:14

So why if he gets very good advice from his corner, and it seems to be working kids doing all right. Why wouldn't you? Because it seems like when you get obsessive people at that level of tennis, they'll do whatever it takes to win. So if that can take the pressure off Carlos so he doesn't have to face the tough situation on his own and it's very qualified guesses or advice. Why wouldn't you want to do it so I guess,

Daniel Kiernan  54:50

okay, Carlos beets Medvedev. And Juan Carlos gets the shits. Badly. Can't make the final.

Freddie Nielsen  55:01

And that's where I was, I was gonna say that, that you gotta in the in your development, you got to make sure that you're able to think independently and have that ability. But if you can master that, and then why why wouldn't you take advantage of all the help you can use? Like it's not, it's probably not that Carlos is incapable of coming up with the solution himself. But if he, if he has a match, where he doesn't have to spend just a few percentages of concentration and energy energy to come up with the, with the place and somebody else can do it, then he can focus on executing. And we're not talking about a guy who's competing at a level where you can play a guy where there's 601 ranked and 200 ranked, he's playing against 1234, or five in the world where the margins are tiny. So if he can have a little more extra concentration throughout a five set match, on executing, and then somebody outside the box can take away that that stress or that limit is to make all these play calls, then why not take advantage of it? I personally don't like that aspect of tennis, what it's become but if that's that's the rule is why wouldn't you want to do it. And

Emily Webley-Smith  56:15

I think he came up with a hell of a lot of solutions against Evo I think Evo threw everything at him in that match. And mid point he was coming up with solutions. I that was one of my favorite matches to watch over the whole year. So I thought it was unbelievable tennis.

Freddie Nielsen  56:35

You got to do what's right for your player, right? You got to make an individual assessment every time what's what's going to help this player become the best he can be. And if that's being independent and thinking then go for that if it's advising with with, with coaching, or if you can be there a lot. And that's that I think it's very individual, right?

Daniel Kiernan  56:55

I don't think I was necessarily disagreeing with it. I think it's more I think it's an interesting topic. And but I do, I do have certain concerns with it. And I think it actually can be I don't know if you mind me sharing this, but there was there was a high highly stressful situation that Gabby and Erin were in in the quarterfinal match, which for me was much of the tournament, you know, that was just this incredible, that exciting doubles match. I'm Louis Armstrong with against Taylor Townsend and Leila Fernandez. And the question was asked to us in the box, what players do we go to here. And as a coach, it's also quite a nerve wracking situation, because because what you what you're thinking as a coach is, get this one wrong. And it doesn't, and it's not even getting it wrong, it might be the right percentage play, that increases your chance of winning the point. But if the player spanks a winner, which the best players in the world are capable of doing, right, from all positions of the court, all of a sudden, the player it also brings in the fact that the players think the coach is bloody clueless, he's got that one wrong, you know, and it does bring up like certain certain bits and, and myself and Bruce in a big shout out to Bruce, who was an absolute legend. It was amazing spending a couple of weeks with Bruce, who was Erin's coach, in a we had this really quick discussion between us in our way it was like, I think you should do that. I think we should do that. And I said, I don't think so I think you should do you know, it was it was a real live situation on match point. And I won't go into all the all the details of that. But ultimately, the girls executed the play and won the match, you know, to intend it and within the third set, but I do think it brings up a lot of a lot of potential for the challenges. If the player truly is relying on an on a point by point basis, you know, I think every now and then having it in in a moment of stress. Can you just give me something to hang on to brilliant? Absolutely. You know, let's go with that. Let's use some fun let's but if it is a play by play basis, which, which certainly has been reported on Alcaraz, I think that's a little chink in his armor, Possibly, but at the same time, like you mentioned the being uncomfortable. It's also part of the coach's job to take on some of that discomfort so that the player can be more I agree completely. But my my point is not every point

Freddie Nielsen  59:40

why not? argue against it?

Daniel Kiernan  59:44

Yeah, well my I think my big argument against it is is I don't think I don't think anyone that's at the top of their of their industry should be that dependable on a person for various reasons but one yeah, that that person could disappear Uh, you know, for whatever reason, you know, we all know that I know that Juan Carlos and and Carlos seem to have a great relationship, but things happen in life, right? Is he going to be in his box for the next 15 years? Unlikely if we're, if we're all being honest, you know, you think that something's probably going to happen at that point. So was he then going to train up another coach that's going to give him all of give him all of those, all of those plays and that moment? If it's every single point, I think you then end up yeah, having someone who clearly has a great IQ for the game, is potentially going to be killing that IQ off a little bit, if you're just now working on auto response. And, again, I'd love to, you know, bring you in here, Gaby, because for me, and I'm not just saying this, you know, but for me, your your intelligence on the court is, is phenomenal, you know, your ability to, to read the game and the creativity that you have, from a player's standpoint, where would you stand on the discussion that me and Freddie are having?

Gaby Dabrowski  1:01:08

Well, you would still only get it half the time, right? Because it's not like someone's getting told every point on the other side of the court. So it's not like the coach is shouting to every single point, it might be half the time at most. And then if you're on the same side, I mean, I didn't see all of Alcaraz's matches, but I think he does both. I think he's very attractive when he's on one side of the court. And then he figures out for himself when he's on the other side of the court, and then looks over to the box for more support than anything. So from my perspective, I think a lot of the coaching was happening anyway. So it's not something that I think should go away as a rule. Like, I don't think we should bring back the no coaching rule or anything like that, because it's going to happen, regardless, it's going to happen in other languages, or people are going to figure out how to do anyway. But yeah, for me, I think it's more like, it really just depends so much on the match to like, there are some matches where I feel like I have everything under control. And I don't really need a lot of help. And then there are other matches when the entire 1000s of people in the crowd are against you. And then yeah, you do need other support. Because I feel like in our quarterfinal match, we were coming towards you guys a lot more than we were in any of the other matches. And I felt that we were more reliant on you in that match than all the other ones. So yeah, so I think it's it's very dependent for us. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot related to stress, I would say for sure. And I would say as well, depending on how the crowd is leaning, because when the crowd is leaning completely against you, you really feel like the whole world just wants you to lose. And like when we played quarterfinals it felt very hostile. And I actually I really hated it. So I think coming to you in the box probably saved that match for us just being able to hang in there mentally and not fade away. Because it just was so uncomfortable.  You were mentioning young IQ, maybe I mean, who knows, it is also tough to develop, but maybe also it's part of Carlos can pick it up, you know, oh, Carlos, Juan Carlos would telling me at this point at this point, and then they have a discussion afterwards. What was the thinking behind this? And maybe that's something to store for future memory. I mean, I think it'd be a lot of reasons for it. I think. And I don't I'm not completely disagreeing with your point. But I'm just saying that I don't if it's something that they determine is valuable, then I don't see I think there's a reason why they shouldn't do it.

Daniel Kiernan  1:03:43

Yeah. And I think I think probably my strength of feeling on this comes from, I think Juan Carlos got it wrong against Medvedev. And I think he over played the wide serve and volley which has clearly become a Medvedev play, you know, like, There's no hiding you know, if I played Medvedev, I'd try it. He'd pass my fat ass every time but I try it it will come to I certainly wouldn't be doing that. But it would come to it comes to execution. Right but I don't know I just think you know, I actually find myself saying this as well to Gabby and Erin and I say this to Harri and Lloyd at times. You know what to do back yourself You feel it you feel it I have no doubts right now. Got no doubts you back yourself.

Freddie Nielsen  1:03:56

Also Have you have you ever done a lot of play calling from the outside as a coach? At the end of the day? It's also just like, how much knowledge are you actually putting into it? There's so many calls to be made. I feel like I've done it sometimes in practice and to at the end, you just kind of guessing just like yeah, go wide here and How much can they actually be behind for the coach? Like?

Daniel Kiernan  1:05:03

Yeah, but I'm saying like in that particular match, and maybe this has been happening with Alcaraz for a while, and it's just come to the forefront because of what happened in that match. But I think he almost, maybe I'm making this up to fit my narrative, and I apologize if I am. But my understanding was this, he'd gone to the back and Alcaraz. had said, I'm going to do this and for Ferrero had said, no, no, no, this is the wide serve and volley again, this is the wide serve and volley again. And Medvedev has just begun waiting there. He was waiting there. And it worked in the first set, you know, and you could see that it was working. But it was when the big moments came. He was just he was sitting there. And I just think the intuition sometimes of a player that you wouldn't always fully get as a coach, you're involved in the match, you have a good feeling, of course, would be like, right, actually, he thinks I'm doing this. So I think this is now the time to do that. There's there's that kind of chess, there's that chess element to a game as well in tennis, which is which I love.

Freddie Nielsen  1:06:11

I think that's the point I was clumsily trying to make that aren't from the outside, you're just kind of saying stuff at the end. Like there's so much information in a match and like you say the feeling and from the outside you're like, oh, yeah, go wide here. But sometimes I went I've done I've Yeah, I know this is but you're like you said you just have a gut feeling and why? Why is the code sometimes it's you just say stuff to say that thing.

Daniel Kiernan  1:06:36

But that brings me back to my last point, I promise then I'll move on. And we'll we'll talk about Novak 24 Because he deserves that with what he's currently doing to the men's game. But my original point was, I think it's I think it's really interesting. And to me, I'm extremely curious about it. Because of the magnitude of the player that we're talking about that we almost feel as this this next generation pedestal incredible like Who doesn't love Carlos Alcaraz mean the guy even he sang the I don't know the exact song but the Spanish song The singer was in the crowd. And, you know, he said about and then he sang and did a little dance, you know, he's just like, he has it he gets it, you know, and and I think that just showed quite a bit of vulnerability and maybe a bit of a chink in his armor, which is which is the curiosity for me. But maybe not maybe that's the way that the sport of tennis is going as well. It's interesting because it goes against the grain of what we've almost all been grown up to think as well you know, and I yeah, for for better or for worse. I think it's a it's a good subject. So Emily before I know you play it tomorrow, so we can't keep you much longer than a big well done today. And Novak whoever we we love him or we loath him. I don't know if you'd call it Gabby but as you were walking out for the final you know it's bizarre finals day of of a Grand Slam apart from obviously the crowds the player sections you can get seats there's nobody sat there anymore in the gym. There's nobody on the bikes they're even taking all the bikes away. You know, on the Sunday the left one bike you know, it looked like it the whole place and Novak as you're walking out, he turned to the girls he said good luck girls, you know, as they were as they were walking out to the court, and I don't know why I said it may be a bit of nervous energy but I said I said come on Novak  you got to win this one for us oldies and he looked at me and smiled and basically said, I got I've got this for us. Don't worry, I got this. You know, and it was such a like I believed him. You know what I mean? I completely believed him. You know I absolutely do not bet and do not bet on tennis but it was he gave the he gave the approved nod of approval. There was no bluff there was no huff there was no puff it was yeah yeah don't worry about this kid. You know, I've got I've got this one in the bag. And and he did any and he does and he's on number 24 My kids are laughing at the Tik Tok of him bringing the 24 jacket out that's white that maybe was made ready for Wimbledon the all white 24 jackets Matthew my little boys been said that's the Wimbledon jacket and he showed me it all on Tik Tok that it's maybe been in his bag for a few months but there seems to be no stopping him. He's got many years left in the game it seems Emily and he's yeah, which whichever way we look at it he's gonna go down as as the greatest ever male tennis player, you know, that's there's no question about that now I don't think What do you think?

Emily Webley-Smith  1:09:50

I think what was cool was that you can see how much it still means to him, and it meant probably meant just as much when you saw the pictures and she saw the pictures of him going home to Serbia and how emotional he was. That was incredible. That he was that emotional about it. And you think he's one of many that to kind of be a bit more chilled about it and rather than my whole house screaming at the television when Gaby won it was a little more in control than that when when Novak won but I still wanted to stay up to watch it. And yeah, it was clinical. There was there was obviously a few moments when he didn't look great physically, which there often is. And then he was fine. But there's the debate about the greatest of all time doesn't really interest me much. But in terms of numbers, yeah. Okay, we can say that.

Daniel Kiernan  1:10:43

And Freddie, your take your take on the final.

Freddie Nielsen  1:10:46

I thought there was really good ball striking very high level. I thought it was very interesting at the end of the second sets, that Medvedev, kind of let that one get away, it seemed like you're looking to become to get on top of the match. And I think he had a very good chance on a passing passing shot on the set points. And when he didn't get that there was only one winner really. He's just inevitable. No way. Honestly, he's, he's a force of nature. He makes it happen. Yeah, what can you say?

Daniel Kiernan  1:11:22

Do you think I had this thought today? A little bit sad that I got these thoughts coming to my head. But he didn't play Australia one year or two years. He wasn't allowed in the US for a period of time. And if we go about what we're seeing this all kind of proving the point to somebody. And you know what makes top athletes tick? I almost, I almost feel for the rest of the field. Those events aren't good. Because it's almost like it's reignited and even more, we touched on Alcaraz is probably reigniting him as well, you know what makes him tick. You know, he's, he's now got another genuine contender and rival by his side that I think it's going to kind of push them. But it just it's what works, what makes them just seems to be what makes him work. And he almost to me looks, it almost just looks unbeatable, and Alcaraz at Wimbledon beat him by playing off the charts in those moments and surprised us all that it was his ability to do that. And if you can't just continually do that 5, 6, 7 key key moments in the match eventually seems to eat you up. And we're talking age 36. Now, Gabby, Ivanisevic, I think made the comment that he's going to continue at least to the Olympics in Los Angeles in 2028. And that takes him to 41. You know, we've got a lot of doubles players. We've got Rohan Vopanna, who I need to give a massive shout out to, you know, Rohan, obviously another final at a Grand Slam. And we'll get to we'll get to Jo and Raj in a minute as well. But how hard is it to keep yourself in physical mental shape? I mean, I know you're nowhere near that. I'm not putting you there but all the way into your 40s to be playing in the singles game.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:13:29

I don't know. I think it's incredibly difficult. I think even doubles can be difficult. So for singles, I really have no idea there's some magical water that they must be drinking and some secret fitness weapons that they must be trying to hone because it's it's pretty remarkable. I don't know how they're doing it that late into their 30s or early 40s. thinking maybe Emily has some tips.

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:59

He might be able to tell us very soon.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:14:03

No, no rocket science. Just hard work every day.

Freddie Nielsen  1:14:08

I'm thinking that these guys are so obsessed, that I'm genuinely interested to see what are they gonna do with their lives once their career is over? How are they gonna substitute this mad dash for being the best in the history of the game with Well, essentially

Emily Webley-Smith  1:14:26

For me as last the physical side as interesting with that, but it's just the desire that he has, like, doesn't need money doesn't need any more titles like he like but he does. He wants it he wants it more.

Freddie Nielsen  1:14:40

Exactly. So

Emily Webley-Smith  1:14:43

For me it's harder to capture at that level and to keep the pressure of keeping at it, it just must be crazy that he just wants it and that

Daniel Kiernan  1:14:54

But I would I definitely have a theory on that if like I did if this is quite personal thing to share maybe but in terms of, if I take, if I take my dad and my brother, I've got lovely relationship with them both, but Northeastern quite Northeast of England quite strict, not the best at showing emotions. And and then certainly if I take me as a me as a player, and this is probably now going into my coaching career as well, they wouldn't necessarily be the easiest people to get gratification from. Yeah, and I think probably quite a lot of people can relate to that in, in their, with their families or with with with different people that 100% of I reflect like when I played Wimbledon, and won a match at Wimbledon 1000s of people watching my dad and my brother being there were the two that got me to see to see pride and and I have another brother who continually told me how proud he was of me. And I love him equally as much as my other brother and my dad that didn't have as much of an impact on me because I'd already got his validation and gratification. Now, again, it sounds a bit crazy. I'm talking about Dan Kiernan compared to Novak Djokovic, but now fast forward to this last weekend, and we've had a bit of a joke about it. But it's certainly not me. That's won the grand slams, you know that the players have won the grand slams. But to play a role in two winning grand slams. In the weekend, there's been a lot of emotion, like a lot of strong, strong, strong emotion that I've that I felt related to that. And again, a lot of that is linked to some form of probably validation from various people. Now, to shift that now to Djokovic. I think that's one of his big driving forces, because I think he genuinely is. And I think we're gonna see more and more emotion from him over the next few years.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:17:05

I think he wants to make people. He wants to make his he wants to make people proud, and he wants to be liked. But I think I feel that little kid in Serbia, who's fighting against everything that doesn't fit tennis world who's still who's still fighting against that. And I think he's, you still see that

Daniel Kiernan  1:17:23

He hates it when everyone goes on about Federer. Everyone goes on about Nadal. And now people are going on about Alcaraz, I think absolutely eats at him. And I think he's strongly strongly motivated. I think that's what we saw a couple of days ago in Serbia. He hasn't always got that in Serbia, he hasn't always got that like overflowing love from so many people. You know, he's always been the one that's fought against it. And I think it'll keep burning within him for quite a while because I think that's what he's after. And I'm not inside Novak's head. But I do think it is quite strongly linked to that sort of yeah other craving of being known as

Emily Webley-Smith  1:18:10

it just Dan, just coming back to how we started the podcast, don't you think it will be so interesting if we actually could get close enough to ask that question? Like about what drives him? Because I think if people found out that from Djokovic, I think they would much I think they would be way more interested in the story. If they actually got down underneath to what's going on. Like, especially in this situation, like if someone actually sat him down and said, like, what, what motivates you to get up when you've, you've got full family, and you've got everything you could possibly want from that perspective to actually keep that level of intensity and want another slam another brilliant performance and another challenge?

Daniel Kiernan  1:18:56

Well, I think he also mentioned I think you'll mentioned his kids quite a bit as well that seems to be quite a driving force. Whereas Andy when I asked Andy that question, I thought it was quite funny that Andy turned around and said I realized my kids didn't give a shit basically, no, no which is which I think is quite interesting. Whereas I think the culture is different as well the culture the British culture is very different there's a there's there's a lot more seems to be a lot more emotion attached. But but really interesting now.

Freddie Nielsen  1:19:26

I think you're onto something though, because remember the Medvedev  final he lost and he that was the first time he really got it felt like he had the crowd on his side. And just the first time I didn't really see any anger or any like, outward tenacity to FU attitude. It was more like, it was almost like he enjoyed it.

Daniel Kiernan  1:19:50

Yeah, I'm Yeah, convinced as a strong word, but that's something I certainly see. I see within Novak and And I've said it a few times on this podcast. I think eventually you'll get it. I think you'll you'll soften more and more and more people as we go. I have to definitely give a big shout out to Gordon Reid and then Alfie Hewett. Alfie won his 26th Grand Slam. And Alfie was our last guest on the on the podcast as well. Then Gordon Reid, who has been a big friend and been on the podcast on numerous times, it's great to see him back in in a wheelchair Grand Slam singles final, you know, on to have have the two Brits and it was lovely for me spending a bit of time with them now. That's one of the other big positives of this podcast getting to know so many more people in the tennis world and having those relationships and lovely catch ups with with them both so a big, big well done to them. Jo Salisbury Rajeev Ram, you know, an amazing story in the men's doubles have massively struggled and announced that they'd split from playing with each other. It's going to be interesting. If they go back on that, you know, that was announced sometime after after Wimbledon. It's going to be really interesting now that they've they've made history I believe it's over 90 years since a man's doubles pairs, one three, back to back titles. And, you know, coming kind of from nowhere, but in a year where they've struggled for wins for them to be able to go through the draw, obviously great guys David O'Hare, Jo's coach was was on the podcast very recently, as well. And Jo and Raj have been have been on as well. And then of course, Louie Cayer, another incredible title for him. Did you see any of the men's doubles? And Chris Eaton as well? Chris has not been on the podcast though.

Freddie Nielsen  1:21:50

So no need to mention him. Well, well,

Daniel Kiernan  1:21:52

Hey, come on. We can't mention everybody. You know, you got to kind of be part of the team.  Yeah, and Rohan. I mean, how long is he going to go for? I mean, he's he's 43, 44 in March,  Brilliant. is a big a big big shout out to them. And I'm sure there's another event what was that other event I was trying to there was one more event we've not mentioned. Oh, that's right. The mixed doubles. What happened to two amazing people took the title who and that in itself was a great story and there's a great

Freddie Nielsen  1:21:57

And the one thing I'll start to highlight by means double is I want to pay pay attention to put attention to Rohan Bopanna has a really nice moment of sportsmanship in the final thought that was a testament to his character and the person. Yes. And, you know, people talk about sportsmanship a lot. And it's a lot easier when it's not in a very tough moment. But he was down a break in the third about to go and made himself go love 30 Down in the third set. And those are the moments where you show your true character, the more likely you are to want to win that point. And you don't I thought that was great. I love that moment. It's a great story because they work together for years they came to you through they put all this

Daniel Kiernan  1:23:22

in actually Harry so Harri Heliovarra and Anna Danilina, again two lovely people who absolutely deserve that their moment and they played fantastically well beat the current world number one men's doubles player and the current number one women's doubles player in Jess Pegula and Austin Krajicek in the final which is a pretty cool way to do it as well on on Arthur Ashe but yeah, Harri we're talking about and Harri was like, about two days before the US Open started. He genuinely was gutted because he was like it's the first time I've decided I'm going to play mixed doubles in French Open my wife was about to give birth so as soon as I lost in men's doubles out to get back but I had eight people asked me there was eight different people asked me to play doubles with them. And he said and here I am two days before the event and I've asked I've asked about 10 Girls and they've all said no. So he so he genuinely thought he wasn't he wasn't going to have a partner then at the very last minute with with Anna and for those guys to go on and like say win five matches and pick up a Grand Slam title was was incredible as well.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:24:40

That's good coaching Dan.

Daniel Kiernan  1:24:43

Jeff, Anna's coach did a great job. It was that was

Freddie Nielsen  1:24:49

Award for Most underplayed role of the tournament goes to... What was it like from your side? What was what was fascinating from your side honestly, on you know, you've been through a lot with Harry and all this stuff. That must have been great to see though.

Daniel Kiernan  1:25:06

It was and I think what was what was great to see actually is expression, the ability to express yourself on the court, you know, and I think you know, you talked about it earlier I think off air Freddie you know, this doubles lot can become quite serious. And, you know, it times as tennis players, we can become over thinkers. We tend to we start playing with a straitjacket a little bit we start questioning what we're doing we start there's obviously you know, I work under Louis Cayer who is incredible you know, we work on the systems and there's all linked to percentages and it's all amazing it's all absolutely incredible and I wouldn't change any of that but players can also sometimes stress themselves out with that and lose a little bit of their yeah their freedom to perform and you know, Harri has had a he's had a challenging few months more from being out of the game with for eight weeks with his wife giving birth so then you you come back and the men's doubles he had a bit of a bit of a tough time and you know to see kind of his face at the end of that it just for me on a on a on a personal level with with Harri but then with Gaby and Erin as well to see those personal journeys and see what it means to them and everything that they've put into it. And to see that firsthand was incredible. And you look at the video of the matches Harri seriously performed like seriously as did Anna, you know, they they won and doubles because doubles at Grand Slams as Best of three sets. And it's not sudden death juices. I think that's really interesting because you you get a bit used to that. And then when you go on to the mixed, you realize shit, the two sets and a tiebreaker is an absolute crapshoot. Like it happens, like so fast. And and I would say, genuinely in in the second round against Parks and Kudler. And in the final against Pegula, and Krajicek, they won 14 Out of the 15 moments. And quite often those moments were Sudden Death deuces. And out of those 14 that they won. I reckon they hit 13 winners. You know, so like, it was a real like, oh my god, they've done it again. are like 1540 down. Unbelievable point. Juice is you know, or 3040 3040 Pavic serving to Anna Pavic hitting a 120 and Anna hitting a clean winner bullet down the line winner, you know, like, they they absolutely one of our big sayings is was player to win, you know, you don't play not to lose, don't protect, you know, go out and grab it go and stick to the process go and do it. And to see that come to fruition was was absolutely incredible. So a big, big well done to those guys and everyone associated with them as well. So it is a very fun. US Open 2023 last words. One thing though, because we titled we talked to Gabybut not that much because I wanted you mentioned the Harri and maybe not how, how was it going into the US Open? Because obviously the last few months weren't exactly as you hope Gaby, why how do you think that this particular partnership or these two weeks just went so well for you guys?

Gaby Dabrowski  1:28:57

Ah, I think well, actually, this might sound a bit weird. But my mom said when she was watching our matches back on the replay, because she's too nervous to watch them live. She said it looked like we had some kind of intangibles. And I think where that came from was we had a really open and honest discussion before the tournament that we would support each other unconditionally. And that was spearheaded by Dan and Bruce. And that really made the difference for us because we stuck by each other literally no matter what was happening in the match no matter how terrible we were playing or how well we were playing. We reminded each other very often of sticking with the process and that we wouldn't win these matches unless we did that. And I think that's what got us through. It's the only thing that I can think of that got us through truly because I think also Erin never never having been past the quarterfinals of a slam than to be in semis than to be in the finals. Then for me to have a second chance to actually get the Grand Slam, because my first was in 2019 At Wimbledon, if you start thinking about that moment too much, you will lose it. I think. I don't know how someone like Novak can do it over and over and over and over again and maintain his focus and like, go for these go over these unbelievable goals. And it doesn't look like he like gets nervous. Like it's just it's like superhuman to me. So for us, we really, we really had to kind of break it down and keep it simple. And I know for me personally going into the finals. I was like, Okay, this is like a first round match. It's raining outside. We were scheduled on court 10 can't play in court. 10 Because it's raining we've been moved indoors, there's a slot open on Ashe, here we go. Let's play because that those the other two times that I played on Ashe were like that was because it was raining and they had a slot open. And they moved us to Ashe.

Freddie Nielsen  1:31:07

 You'd actually played on Ash before that

Gaby Dabrowski  1:31:10

Twice, which I think really helped as well. But yeah, almost like tricking your brain kind of thing. To not let the moment get to you. And then in terms of partnership and teamwork, just really, really sticking by each other. That was that was the key.

Freddie Nielsen  1:31:26

And that seemed to be really important because that first set breaker was massive. Ah,

Gaby Dabrowski  1:31:32

yeah, after I fell I really don't remember what happened. And I know Aaron was just carrying and I was like, Okay, we were up six, four. And now it's nine all okay, I didnt hit my head, but it kind of feels like I hit my head. But yeah,

Freddie Nielsen  1:31:56

There was some wild stuff going on on the outside.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:32:00

Yeah.

Freddie Nielsen  1:32:02

 Aaron might have caught it back home quite late for when at one point as well. But

Gaby Dabrowski  1:32:06

yeah, she hit a few of those actually. Is, yeah, really clutch.

Freddie Nielsen  1:32:12

It was good to watch. And you guys stayed also really calm if they came back after the injury time. And they took two games back. And you talked about?

Gaby Dabrowski  1:32:24

Yeah, the two games coming back didn't really bother me. So I was like, Okay, three loves, like, a good lead to games. It's fine. You know, we're, we're playing well, you know, it wasn't like, we were losing focus. And then I didn't feel like the momentum was necessarily shifting. So I'm thankful.

Daniel Kiernan  1:32:41

I think I think one lesson that I think's worth worth sharing, certainly with any junior players listening, Grand Slam final 7-6 4-2 up, played a great game, you know, but really pushed the other teams serve in on had a couple of breakpoints had a couple of chances, four or five juices didn't quite get the break. But then going into serve at four three, on the back of that game, I think was really big, rather than losing the four two game to love. And all of a sudden you're serving again, you know, and I think that was you, you are you're looking at in these in these moments in these big matches. As you know, for me, it's, it's it is the small little, there's so many little small things that go into it. But I think that was a really important moment. Because, you know, Erin serving at four three in the second set, not for a grand slam but close enough. It's really different doing it on the back of playing a really good positive return game, where you've prolonged it and added pressure to the other team that it is being a bit of a crappy game, losing a couple of you know, easy returns, and then all of a sudden have to serve.

Freddie Nielsen  1:34:00

I will challenge that a little bit and say that I could also I could maybe personally see it as Oh shit. We didn't get this long game. There was an opportunity they got a mental bag to have some belief. I think it's just

Daniel Kiernan  1:34:15

I agree. But they were so locked in and that was enough for me they were so locked into this bubble which we talked about the bubble you're together that's where you are. You know if you come out all the time you come out of any but were in the bubble with you, you know if you need us were there. I think they did such an amazing job of being in there. I completely take your point but that I could they weren't thinking that it was it. They were saw in the process so committed to what they were doing that good the good stuff and even the three love the three two, they didn't do that much wrong in those games. You know, see human hit a couple of balls on the line. You know, a couple of good labs, a couple of you know, there was a couple of things that happened but they'd maintain the company It meant to what they were trying to do on the court. So then it's much easier to just continue doing that. Rather than playing nervy few games where you maybe get out of the moment, your mind starts to wander. And I think the four two to four, three games, even though they lost it was testament to that, because I think if memory serves me correct, maybe they had four or five game points, which it kind of would have been easy to offer. Okay, four, three was still serving. But it was not enough. There's another point to play, we now try and do our best to win this point. And now we try and do our best to win this point. Okay, okay. It's now another game. Another point, you know, and I think that was, that was the mentality. And that's massive testament to Gabby and Erin to be able to do that. In the biggest of biggest of moments in a Grand Slam final. And then to do it again, at five, three to get the break, you know, which was another another deuce game lost too much points, you know, going back into that, and then still being able to do it. And that's, yeah, that it's a massive, massive big up to those that buy into process and buy into committing to the, to the correct process. And mental toughness to be able to do that. So a big, big, big well done.

Freddie Nielsen  1:36:22

And also, Dan, put a funny stat to me about you make kind of history by being the first specialist doubles team to win in a long time.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:36:34

So is that true? Is that right?

Freddie Nielsen  1:36:38

If it's a damn fact, I just bought it today inspect. I mean, you could argue that this way and straightaway winning Wimbledon this year as a specialist, but

Daniel Kiernan  1:36:47

yeah,

Gaby Dabrowski  1:36:48

they still play really good singles.

Daniel Kiernan  1:36:51

But yeah, I think I think I'd like to throw that to a listener actually. So what we're seeing is women's doubles. I was told earlier this year, so this wasn't, this wasn't I've got a team that's won the women's doubles. Let's make up this stat to make it sound even better, because it already does their US Open champions that doesn't need. It doesn't need any extra weight. But I got told yeah in Indian Wells, six months ago, that it's 23 years since a women's doubles team that only has two doubles players. And now what the criteria is, I don't know. But I would guess that criteria is top 100 singles or at the very least, Grand Slam Quallies are not buying the start if it means you've got a singles ranking, because Erin's got a singles ranking. So it's, at least in the last, what, 23 times for the last 92 Grand Slams of women's doubles. My understanding is there's been at least one woman in the team that is still classified as a singles player. What I'd love a listener to pick up on that and fact check it.

Freddie Nielsen  1:38:03

And also, Gaby, last time you won a slam you made huge strides in the political connection between India and Canada. So what are you going to do for Canada and New Zealand this time?

Gaby Dabrowski  1:38:18

Well, Erin is more Canadian than me. She lives in Montreal, so maybe she can do something for me with New Zealand though because I want to maybe live there one day.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:38:28

What about transforming sustainability in the sport with what you've achieved?

Gaby Dabrowski  1:38:33

Oh, yeah. With either high impact athletes or maybe eco athletes? Yeah, for sure. There's there's some room to do some. I wanted to say do some damage, but that's not what I mean it in a positive way. In like, yeah, in either like the climate space or sustainable fashion space. Yeah, we'll see what we can do.

Freddie Nielsen  1:38:58

A hell of an effort.

Daniel Kiernan  1:38:59

My last question, Gaby, and maybe this is more of a coach question than a podcast host question. How are you and Erin gonna reset and get your minds ready to stay in that bubble over the next five or six weeks? Towards the end of the year?

Gaby Dabrowski  1:39:20

Um, well, I mean, I wrote her a message to their they just being like, I love what we're doing and because a lot of people have been asking about like, Oh, you're in finals in Cancun, like blah blah blah. But it's if we try to focus on qualifying for that, it's like way too much pressure and it's going to make the next few weeks like really not fun I think. So I just told her look, if we end up qualifying great, but if we don't, it's totally fine. And I just think we

Freddie Nielsen  1:39:44

Have what the ATP has that if you win a slam you're automatically qualified.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:39:49

No, no, we don't have it's a what?

Freddie Nielsen  1:39:57

Not great

Gaby Dabrowski  1:40:00

Yeah, so we don't have that. So we would still have to qualify because I think we're like Team 10. So basically, I just told her like, that result doesn't matter. If it happens, great. And if it doesn't, that's okay. Let's just keep doing what we're doing. So I think that was one. I wouldn't call it like an elephant in the room. But I would just say that's one big thing that probably a lot of people are like paying attention to now that it's just like it's out of our hands. We just have to keep doing what we're doing.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:40:27

It's a good elephant though Gabs

Daniel Kiernan  1:40:35

2023 That's it. Somebody said the other day on Twitter that it feels like the US Open should be the end of the tennis year. And and you know, and I think probably tennis players, tennis coaches can can relate to that a little bit. Obviously, we there's not a big offseason, you know, there's still still plenty of tennis, especially if you look at the ATP calendar. Actually, you know that the WTA calendar comes to a close a little bit earlier. But then you've got Billie Jean King Cup finals. It continues, Gabby. But if we talk about a storyline each, we have to do this at the end of each show. What's the storyline to look out for in the rest of 2023?

Emily Webley-Smith  1:41:18

China? Time has gone back.

Daniel Kiernan  1:41:22

But how has that happened so quickly after the WTA made such a stance? Do we know how Peng Shuai's doing? Do we know how that situation is? Because there was obviously a big there was a big thing about that for a couple of months. But is she back? Is she?

Gaby Dabrowski  1:41:41

Yeah, she I think she's in China. I haven't spoken to her personally. So I don't really know how she's doing. Maybe she'll come to the tennis tournaments and Beijing or Zhengzhou,

Freddie Nielsen  1:41:55

Get a wild card.

Daniel Kiernan  1:41:56

I think it would be I think it would be nice for us to know that she's that she's okay. And living a free life. You know, I think that's, that was one of the big issues that the WTA had with China. Right? You know, so I think it's not just sweep that under the carpet. Let's let's hope that we get a little bit more clarity on that as well. And Freddie, Gaby, what about the storylines? What have you guys, I mean, actually, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pick one thread, and then I'm gonna throw it to you, a Holger Rune. He was he's been a big story throughout 2023 He has no longer with Patrick Mouratoglou. I saw today that it's been announced he is back with his old coaches coach and from the age of five years old Lars. And I apologize I don't know Lars' surname, but it Yeah, and and it seems like as with many players, when things aren't quite going the way that they want, and it's going back to basics, you know, going back to basics, going back to what he knows, getting getting that hard work in. So what can we expect from Holger for the rest of the year?

Freddie Nielsen  1:43:06

I think you can expect  a push for the rest of the season. I think he is disappointed with how the summer went, especially having had a fairly good clay season. And, in my opinion, quite a good Wimbledon where he really stuck it to call us and whether I think Carlos was lucky to get away as easily as he did. And then obviously it goes without saying the summer in America was not really something that he had hoped for. And there's a great tennis player there you grow up, things have been a certain way you're trying to find your way you think let me try this. Let me try that. It worked out at first maybe never doesn't work out anymore. And Lars was always kind of involved. But now it's kind of like Okay, back to basics, as you said, and there's a hell of a player there. And I think he's gonna attack the end of the season well and finish off strong. I think it's it's pretty remarkable that considering how he's also spoken about now, how tough it's been with the training with the coaches situation on the chaos and Lars not being there for the clay and what was happening and he still had a good clay season. So even in a very difficult situation season. He's still number four in the world and has done very well. So I'm, I'm inside excited to see him get back on track. And I think like I said there's a hell of a player there compete with anybody in the world. And focus is to finish strong and get ready to make the Slams in 2024. And I think he'll he'll come back he'll he'll have a strong form. I certainly hope so. Hopefully Caroline will get to play a few more tournaments from another Danish point of view.

Daniel Kiernan  1:44:49

can't believe I didn't mention unbelievable. Before. Like unbelievable. Before my ESPN went off in my hotel room. I watched the play against Kvitova ever My God, I was absolutely astounded. I thought, like her level

Emily Webley-Smith  1:45:06

that she's come back is wow. absolutely unbelievable. Like, wow. And physically as well. Amazing.

Daniel Kiernan  1:45:14

I actually thought a forehand was better

Freddie Nielsen  1:45:17

Agreed upon breaking the third against Coco,

Daniel Kiernan  1:45:20

none at all. Like she, for me, she can push for slams in 24. I agree. I really do that, that I can't believe we've not mentioned that, because I'm pleased that that's come up because I was super, super, super impressed with her.

Freddie Nielsen  1:45:35

Yeah, I totally agree. And I think that the only thing that caused her really now was lacking matches, and she lost a little bit against Coco because she was short on matches and time on court.

Daniel Kiernan  1:45:52

Very, very good. And our last word goes to a US Open champion, Gabby dobrowski

Gaby Dabrowski  1:45:59

On a more national level. Tennis Canada has a new director of women's tennis, so I'd be really interested to see what she brings to the table. Was that Noel van Latham? I haven't met her yet. So sometime soon.

Daniel Kiernan  1:46:16

She's just moved from the UK. Yeah, she

Emily Webley-Smith  1:46:19

just moved from Scotland from Glasgow.

Daniel Kiernan  1:46:21

Great. Well, guys, thank you as ever, for your time. All the best this week, Emily. And thank you and Gaby for the rest of the year. And obviously Freddie Davis Cup tie with Brazil this week, as well. So you've all got you all got lots of exciting things that are happening. All the very best and, and a big, big, well done, and thank you for for coming on.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:46:44

Thanks. Thanks, Dan.

Daniel Kiernan  1:46:46

So there we have it. That will be our last review show until 2024. Where is time going? You know, we'll be back in Australia at the start of next year. But what a fantastic conversation that was with with great people, passionate tennis people, and for us to be able to celebrate Gaby's success of last weekend was was wonderful to do so with everyone else on the panel. And yeah, we want to hear from you what did you think is Novak gonna hit 30 grand slams, you know, is Iga of people worked out how to beat Iga out there on the tour is Coco Gauff. Now the one to beat or is she going to be let down by the forehand side which we discussed and she was able to manage so well and smartly. In the final. There's lots more exciting tennis we have the Davis Cup right now. And we're very lucky actually here in Sotogrande Spain, because we have the Billie Jean King Cup finals in a few weeks time in Sevilla, which is two hours from Sato Tennis Academy. And then a couple of weeks after we then have the Davis Cup finals in Malaga, which is only an hour away. So hey, if you fancy a bit of tennis come and play at the academy and watching the top top international players as they come towards the end or at the end of their season, representing their countries in the Billie Jean King Cup and Davis Cup finals. Then please do reach out and get in touch with us. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are control the controllables