A Journey from Addiction to Soul Healing with HollyKem & Dr. Dean Sunseri

Rich Bennett 0:00
Thanks for joining the conversation where we explore the stories and experiences that shape our world. I'm your host, Rich Bennett. Today, I'm excited to welcome Dr. Deans and Siri, a licensed professional counselor, and Holly Kim Sunseri. She's a life coach. So over 35 years ago, they met in a 12 step meeting, both on profound personal journeys. Holly Kim was overcoming severe drug addiction, and Dean was addressing the impact of addiction in his own family. Together, they've since embarked on a mission to share their process of emotional cycle, logical and spiritual healing with the world. Their book, A Roadmap to the Soul, offers an innovative approach to recovery and transformation. And today, they're here to share their insights and experiences with us. And let me tell you, people, buckle up. I have a funny feeling this is going to be a fun ride. I am going to do my best not to talk about food. They're in New Orleans, 

which I just love. And well, never mind. I might even start. So how are you guys doing? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 1:15
Doing good. I'll sit next to one of the best Louisiana cooks around right here. 

Rich Bennett 1:20
Why did you have to tell me that? 

What's your favorite dish to cook? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 1:28
Well, chicken stew is one of my good dishes that I cook. And, 

Rich Bennett 1:31
Okay. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 1:32
you know, cooking Cajun food is a long process. 

Rich Bennett 1:36
Hmm. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 1:36
So, you know, it's not like you just go in there and, you know, whip that up. It's 

Rich Bennett 1:40
Right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 1:40
it's it's an all day affair. So, you know, gumbo and safety base, those kinds of things, you know. 

Rich Bennett 1:48
Do 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 1:49
They're 

Rich Bennett 1:49
you put. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 1:49
good. 

Rich Bennett 1:49
You put corn in chicken stew? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 1:52
No. 

Rich Bennett 1:53
Okay. 

I guess that would 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 1:55
No 

Rich Bennett 1:55
be. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 1:56
vegetable. 

Rich Bennett 1:56
All right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 1:57
Yeah, I guess so. No, we don't put corn. No, we boiled corn With the crawfish. Yeah, with crawfish. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 2:06
Crawfish. God, I love crawfish. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 2:09
So good. 

Rich Bennett 2:10
All right. So since you started with the. 

I have to answer this because I was always a big fan of Duck Dynasty, mainly to watch what they cooked and of course, prey and afterwards. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 2:23
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 2:24
Miss Kaye made the squirrel. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 2:28
Hmm. 

Rich Bennett 2:29
Have you ever done that? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 2:30
No, but my son does. 

Rich Bennett 2:32
Oh, have you? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 2:33
Yeah. Oh, yeah. My son is a we call him a Cambodian Billy Bob. Our son we had. 

Yeah, he, he, he's he's from Cambodia. We adopted Red three years, three, three months old. But he grew up in rural Louisiana, so he's like a Cambodian redneck. Yes. 

Rich Bennett 2:51
Oh, God. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 2:53
And he loves to hunt and fish. And I taught him how to cook. So he knows how to cook and he he can't kill anything. He doesn't eat. Right. That was the rule. 

Rich Bennett 3:02
Right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 3:02
So he knows how to cook all, you know, alligator, everything. 

Rich Bennett 3:08
Or. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 3:09
Yeah, I don't eat all that, but my son does. 

Rich Bennett 3:12
You only gator. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 3:14
No. 

Rich Bennett 3:16
What? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 3:16
I'm like, Ali, man collapsed like. 

Rich Bennett 3:23
For those of you listening that don't know who. 

Go on Pluto TV or whatever and just look up Beverly Hillbillies. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 3:32
That's right. 

Rich Bennett 3:33
And the old Elvis movie Frankie and Johnny. You'll know which big difference between the two. But anyways. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 3:41
That's right. 

Rich Bennett 3:42
So I want to get into this. So you. Your journey started in a 12 step. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 3:46
12 step. 

Rich Bennett 3:48
Over 32 years ago. Can you share 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 3:51
There 

Rich Bennett 3:51
what it was like 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 3:52
is 

Rich Bennett 3:52
for 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 3:52
life. 

Rich Bennett 3:52
each of you in that moment and how your personal experiences with addiction shaped the path you've taken together? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 4:00
Yeah, you go ahead. Yeah, well, I've been sober. I'm 63 years old, and I've been sober for 41 years. 

Rich Bennett 4:07
Right now you 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 4:08
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 4:08
are not 63. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 4:10
Yeah, I'm 63, so that's what drinking doesn't do for you. 

No drugs, no alcohol for 41. 

Rich Bennett 4:18
You don't look a day over 30. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 4:20
Oh, you're so sweet. I love you. 

Yeah. So we you know, I was 19 years old looking at ten years in the penitentiary. I was married to my first husband, which was my drug dealer. And through that process, it was living in hell. 

Rich Bennett 4:38
Right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 4:39
And living. You know, happiness was being numb. It wasn't about anything else. So through that numbness, I woke up and right before I turned 22 years old and realized I'm not going to live long if I don't make a change. And my stepfather, which had been in my life since I was six years old. My mother did an intervention on him and I was part of that with my first husband and, you know, my brother and my brother and my sister. And through that process, through the he went to treatment and the family week, I learned about tolerance. And when I went back and, you know, was years and after that, I could see my tolerance really changing. And decided I wanted to make a change. And so, you know, there's a lot of death in that situation. Friends, you know, overdosing and some go to treatment, you know. So I knew that there was more to life than what was happening. I just didn't know what it looked like. So I ended up getting sober January 10th of 1983 

Rich Bennett 5:47
Why? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 5:47
and have been sober ever since. Not easy worked really have I have worked really, really, really hard. And. 

Rich Bennett 5:54
That's great, though. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 5:55
And I will continue to work really, really hard. So through that process, I had moved to New Orleans and I was I had been single for five years then. Yeah. Were divorced, you know, 

Rich Bennett 6:09
Right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 6:09
and been single for longer than that because it took a while to get a divorce. So through that process of working on myself, I you know what I wanted was in the beginning, all I wanted was not to be in pain every day. 

Rich Bennett 6:23
Mm hmm. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 6:24
Happiness was not an issue. And through the process, learning how to love myself. And by learning to love myself, then I could learn because the word says to Lote, You love God and neighbor as yourself. 

Rich Bennett 6:41
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 6:41
Well, if I treated anyone the way I treated myself, I would have been locked up or on death row because I was so not nice to myself. So much self-hatred. So through that process, just learning to love myself. And I met Dean in a 12 step meeting, and he was going to be a Catholic priest and I loved Jesus ever since I was a little girl. 

Rich Bennett 7:06
Right, 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 7:07
Yeah, I did. I just love Jesus. I grew up as a little Catholic girl, and my parents were divorced and very dysfunctional. Both, you know, just a really dysfunctional system. And all I could find was Jesus was the most kindest, sweetest, forgiving person. God, I was terrified of and didn't know the Holy Ghost, but just Jesus. So when I met Dean. 

Rich Bennett 7:31
Steve. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 7:32
Yeah, when I met Dean and they said he was going to be a Catholic priest and he was very good looking, but he was younger than me. So, you know, that was. 

Rich Bennett 7:40
Wait, wait. Holly. Kim. Why are you using past tense? You said he was. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 7:45
Oh, he's there. Yeah, he. Yes, he is beautiful. You. 

He is our friend there. 

No doubt he got it. It's like. Dale looks like 24 when I met him. So. 

Rich Bennett 8:02
What? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 8:03
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 8:04
I need to cut. Then you guys are. We're all the same age. I know. 20, 30 years older than both of you. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 8:16
It's the humidity. Do you know we have good humidity down and it's hot, but we got humidity. So he you know, they said he was he was going to be a Catholic priest. And I went up to him and said, people can't handle me. I love God. Would you have coffee with me? And I want to talk about God because, you know, he's going be Catholic pretty safe, right? So that's what. 

Rich Bennett 8:40
So this was in the 12 step program where you met him. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 8:43
Yeah in 12 step program. Yeah. So yeah we because when in those days we didn't have cell phones so we would. 

Rich Bennett 8:50
Right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 8:50
Coffee shop, and then we'd go do something, 20 of us at a time. Because, you know, in Louisiana, alcohol is everywhere, so you don't go anywhere by yourself in recovery, you know, So we go dancing or something, you know, for an hour or 20 hours, and then we'd leave. Right. So you always were in a pack. She had a she had a her roommate was a mutual friend of ours named Robert. Yes. And Robert felt sorry for me. He saw me in the seminary, was like, Dude, you have to have some fun and you're in bad shape. So. And. Four years. And when Actually, the truth be told, when I met Holly Kim, I was on my way out. I had decided to leave, but. But still in. And when Robert he said, look, you need to have fun and we gon dance and you got to meet at PJ's coffee shop on magazine and we're going to go dance. And so I said, Oh, okay, okay, Robert. So I was there and he said, My roommate's coming. And so she walked in the door and he said, That's my roommate. And, you know, there was a there was a lot of things hormonally that were kind of dormant for a while, but. I had like this awakening starting to happen when 

And so it kind of progressed from there. You know, we came from very different places, very different, 

Rich Bennett 10:14
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 10:14
but we were on the same quest because one of the things I began to understand was I mean, at that time, it was my dad's drinking was out of control. It just escalated in the last few years, my marriage, my parents marriage was on the rocks and we were just trying to deal with that. You know, him and my mom and me and my siblings. And what happened was I was at a monastery in the seminary before MIT. Holly Kim. And we had this pick, a spiritual director. And so I had to pick one of the 50 monks that were there. And I happened to pick Father Bill, who was later known as the drunk monk. And so so all the bill out of all the ones I pick him and Father Bill, he's my spiritual director. And he leaves. He's he just he disappears. Like, where's Father Bill? Nobody saw him. Well, Father Bill went to treatment. He went to treatment because he was drinking too much. Any. 

Rich Bennett 11:13
Wow. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 11:14
He came back and he started teaching me all the things that he had learned about alcoholism and all the things of the impact. And he could see that I was dealing with that in my family system. And so we ended up doing an intervention with my dad. My dad made a very courageous decision to go to treatment. He's been sober ever since. He's 85, 85 years old and and restored my parents marriage. It was just it was really beautiful. But, you know, back in those days when you would go to treatment, your family members would all go for an entire week, the third week of treatment. And so. 

Rich Bennett 11:49
Wow. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 11:50
It was called Family Weekend. So we went to that and I could see that I had the early signs of alcoholism. I could see as I started to learn. And so that's when I made a commitment to not drink. And, you know, it's interesting when you're in New Orleans and you don't drink. I had a guy that told us one time that it's like dog years. If you get one year under your belt, you really get seven years credit because, you know, because of the environment. So. We actually have a couple 100 years. 

And you know that you've been to New Orleans recently. I mean, it's it's all around this. But, you know, it's it's just was part of the journey because. Yeah. So so when I met Holly Kim, we were both on this quest, but I realized that emotional and psychological immaturity is going to deeply impact your spiritual development, which I always had a great love for the Lord, but it was just impacting that. So I knew that I needed to grow on those other two levels in order to continue my growth spiritually. And that's the same process. Holly Kim was on. And when we met, we we just were so connected in that same quest then that's what we've been doing ever since. And so really our life's work has been helping people really learn how to integrate all three to become the best 

Rich Bennett 13:21
Right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 13:21
of who you are. You know, if you neglect one of those areas, you're going to have problems. I mean, you have some really great spiritual leaders that because of their emotional, psychological immaturity, end up doing such tremendous damage because they have to work through the issues. Right. 

Rich Bennett 13:36
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 13:37
And so so it all goes in a package. And and, you know, that's been our life work ever since is are the things that we've learned. We packages together in our book a Road Map to the Soul. And that's the process that we've been using. And it's really brought so much liberation to so many people. 

Rich Bennett 13:55
I want to go back a little bit here. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 13:57
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 14:00
You both met or started dating during the 12 step program. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 14:04
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 14:05
Where were the meetings being held at? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 14:09
They're in New Orleans. They're all over there in churches. They're in. 

Rich Bennett 14:13
That's that's the thing. Catholic Church is right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 14:17
Usually Catholic church Presbyterian with 

Rich Bennett 14:20
Okay. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 14:20
its. 

Rich Bennett 14:22
Something. And this just hit me when you were talking about the seminary and everything and. With monks. I mean, there's 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 14:32
There's. 

Rich Bennett 14:32
I think one of the oldest beers out there is made by monks. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 14:36
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 14:39
With. I know how it is down there, but up here. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 14:43
Here. 

Rich Bennett 14:44
Any time you have a function at a church, the only place where you can have alcohol is a Catholic church. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 14:51
Yes, I'm right 

Rich Bennett 14:52
So what is it with 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 14:55
with. 

Rich Bennett 14:55
alcohol? The Catholic Church. 

And they're doing the AA meetings there. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 15:04
There. 

Rich Bennett 15:04
It's. I just. I just thought about that. It's like, Wait a minute. It's all coming together here. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 15:12
It's all intermingled. You know, it's interesting when you look at New Orleans culturally. 

Rich Bennett 15:17
Mm hmm. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 15:18
We're not that different than other cultures, except everything's intermingled, 

Rich Bennett 15:23
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 15:23
right? In most small towns, southern towns. You have the bar on one side of the tracks and you have the churches on the other side. It's all separated, right? But New Orleans is kind of the the people think it's corrupt. It is corrupt to some extent. But what we do understand is that it's all mixed in together. And so you go to the French Quarter, the center of the French Quarter is the cathedral. But right next to that is a bar. And right next to that is a strip club. Now, I don't think those are good things, but at the same time, it's all intermingled. It's not on the other side of the tracks. 

Rich Bennett 16:01
Right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 16:02
So so it's almost accepted that that we're human and that it's not black and white, but there's a lot of gray. Right. And so that's that's why it appears so bizarre if you so used to all that being divided. Because the same people that go to church actually cross the tracks and go to the bar. But. 

Rich Bennett 16:25
Right? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 16:26
Just a little more pronounced and intermingled or or I don't know if acceptance is the right word. So. So there again, you take New Orleans is a Catholic city predominantly 

Rich Bennett 16:37
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 16:37
60, 70% and so used to probably be in the nineties. And so there's not that stark separation which you can make an argument it should be. But then on on another hand, you know, we all realize that we're all in process of being sanctified and we were in process, I mean. 

Rich Bennett 16:58
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 16:59
You know, we do the best we can, and this is messed up a little bit and you get back on your horse. 

Rich Bennett 17:05
So with you two, when you met, because Holly came. I had a severe addiction. Would you deem it was more or less your father? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 17:16
Right. 

Rich Bennett 17:17
How hard was it, especially for you, Dean, to be with Holly Kim Because here it is. You're dealing with it in your family. And now you meet Holly Kim. She's got her own addiction problem. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 17:33
Right. Which the key is. It was an active. 

Rich Bennett 17:37
Yeah. Thank God. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 17:39
I knew her post drug and not my pre drug you know so. So I don't think we what he did did that well if it was been pretty slow. 

Rich Bennett 17:46
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 17:47
So in a sense, I mean, we were very similar on the same journey because, you know, you can be an active addiction or you can be severely or you can be impacted by addiction, but not actively in your own addiction. And you're dealing with a lot of the same issues because when you get sober, you're not you're not you know, when you when you stopped all the drugs and alcohol, you're still got issues. You 

Rich Bennett 18:10
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 18:10
still have the same thing that somebody comes in that loves people, that's an addict. So, yeah, 

Rich Bennett 18:18
Go 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 18:18
you. 

Rich Bennett 18:19
ahead. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 18:19
The same stuff. It's just that you chose to sedate it, maybe be in a workaholic or be an an A student or, you know, being a perfectionist or being a worrywart. Where the alcoholic and the drug addict, what they did was they choose to sedate it. What we both have in common is an inability to manage our emotional life well. And so what an addict does is they develop a sedating behavior to deal with their emotional life. But someone that's not an addict, but been impacted by addiction and a family system develops other behaviors. Right. To manage their emotions. That worked for them. But over time, work against them. Right. So perfectionism is great because you can get straight A's, but over over time it becomes a torment and it becomes a way of running from myself or so. So there's a whole category of behaviors that we call in. We call it the protector, our coping behaviors. But we put that all in is in the same bucket. And so the commonality is that we both need to learn to deal with our humanness and both need to learn how to embrace our emotional life, to manage it, to externalize it, to share it, to give voice to it, to so it doesn't we manage it as opposed to it managing us. 

Rich Bennett 19:34
Right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 19:34
Well, yeah. And the other part too, is that, you know, one of the problems with being an addict and I used to specialize with people with five years of sobriety is that, you know, what happens is it's like they quit doing drugs and they could do an outcome and they quit doing nicotine and then they quit doing caffeine and then they quit working out like crazy or they get addicted by. I know. I don't know where those come from. 

Rich Bennett 20:03
For those of you listening, all of a sudden a thumbs up, a pop. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 20:06
Yeah, you never know. They all kind of stuff happens. So, you know. So you, you know, you say No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And then when you get about five years sober, there are no more things to say no to. Really? Okay. Because you said no so much. And then it's like, okay, you know, did I work on myself? Why am I still in pain? Why do I still heard about some of these issues in my life that have happened, some traumas? And it's like they get hopeless. So if I'm not going to go back and do those things, especially the drugs and alcohol, they become suicidal. So yeah, So what was so important for us and is like, okay, there's a part of us that wants to make everything better and go away. But it some of us, like myself, will go to the ends, to the earth, to, to the dirt, to live in, how to make it go away. Some people will not go that far, but if they go to the heights of success and it doesn't work, they might commit suicide. Okay. The people that on Wall Street, they jump out the window and you like they had everything was the same thing. It just looks different. One socially acceptable and one is socially and it's socially unacceptable. So but we're still sedating our pain. So for us, when you when you can put it into one bucket, like one package and eat it may look good. It may not look good, but it's one part of you. It's not who you are, it's just a part of you that has helped you cope. It was met for good, but it turned against you like you thought that was your best friend. But it turned out when your best friend. 

Rich Bennett 21:40
Right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 21:40
So, you know, you got to have boundaries with that part of you. Now. You know, the way I teach it is, you know, that part of me is always going to be there. It's always going to have an answer. And the answer for that part ultimately is sedated, you know? So I know that. So I do have to be afraid of it anymore. It just says, how can you know, we never tried that kind of alcohol, that some new alcohol we might want to try that beer. And I'm thinking, oh, thanks for sharing that today. But it's just part of what it's going to tell me. And then there's another part that is what's the motivating of that? It's kind of like the protector. We see it as like the external of your vehicle. You may have a porous, you may have a what if whatever truck you may have a mercedes, you may have a Volkswagen, but underneath that thing can't go anywhere without an engine. 

Rich Bennett 22:34
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 22:35
So the trauma and the pain that was not allowed for whatever reason to be released, it got internalized. And so that is the engine that pushes that that vehicle. 

Rich Bennett 22:47
Right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 22:48
So if I learned, what we do is we learn, we teach people with idea. And then, you know, we came up with this together is we take that other part and we name it, claim it, and give it a voice. So that way you're always looking at three parts. My true self, who I really am, who God intended me to be, that got lost through the process and I'm what am I? Recovery. I'm recovering my true self back. I'm in recovery. What are you recovering people like? Are you recovering who you really supposed to be and who's really God made you to be? Right? And then there's the part of you that took over and brought you to places you didn't want to go. 

Rich Bennett 23:29
That evil guy on your shoulder. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 23:31
That's right. And then there's another part that holds all the pain of life. 

Rich Bennett 23:37
Oh, 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 23:38
There's three parts. So when someone says you need to look like when I was Geithner recovering, they would say, How come you need to love yourself? And, you know, in my family, if they loved you, they bought you things. So I would go buy shoes that did not work. Okay. 

Rich Bennett 23:53
right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 23:54
Those shoes, they made me happy. It didn't. It wasn't the love that I needed. What did I need to do? I need to love the part of me that wanted to hurt me. And I need to love the part of me that was hurting. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 24:06
That's probably one of the hardest things, too, isn't it? To be for. To be able to love. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 24:11
Love yourself. Yeah, that's what I. That's what we teach. Yeah. And loving yourself has it is not only love and the best of you, but also the painful and difficult 

Rich Bennett 24:19
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 24:19
parts. And, you know, one of the characteristics of our emotional pain it gets internalized is it has no sense of time. So any pain that I've experienced doesn't know the difference between 30 years ago, ten years ago, yesterday and today. And it's symbols that trigger it. 

It's easy to see. I know that you served and certainly honor you for serving our country. But, you know, post-traumatic stress disorder. I remember working with a guy who was a vet one time. He was we were just talking and he was. Late thirties. We're just speaking. He was at a psychiatric hospital and a helicopter flew over. Well, he had been in Vietnam. He had a lot of experiences on helicopters, a lot of trauma this night. And he ended up when he heard that helicopter, it was flying low. He ended up under the table shaking like a leaf and just terrified. And so what happened? Well, he was triggered by no sense of time, the sound of a helicopter, and he became the wound. 

Rich Bennett 25:28
There. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 25:29
Right. He was under the table literally shaking. And, you know, I had to talk him out. It's no, it's okay. It's safe and do all those things. But, I mean, that's an example of extreme example. But we all experience things like that. There were times. 

Rich Bennett 25:42
Oh, yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 25:43
We get triggered and we become the wound. And so what am I going to do? I'm either going to sedate the wound or I'm going to love it, and I'm going to help be worked through it and be loved through it. And so we know, you know, people that experience PTSD, the issues, not when they're at war, they hold it together and do fine. It's when they return and they start to become safe when it starts to come to the surface. And so oftentimes in our growth process, it's when we're growing and becoming more emotionally safe that we start to deal with some of the things that we're carrying because it finally has permission to come to the surface. 

Rich Bennett 26:21
Yeah. It's a lot easier when you can open up and talk about it. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 26:25
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And one of the things for me is that. My wounded part of me that holds all the pain for my life from childhood to today is that it's not something to be dealt with. Are healed. It's something to be loved. So if there's a baby in the room that's crying, we don't slap it around. Tell it to shut up. 

Rich Bennett 26:50
Now. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 26:50
You go it. You don't even know why it's crying because it can't give you verbals, you know? 

Rich Bennett 26:55
Right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 26:56
You go and you pick the baby up and you love it and it doesn't matter. You do it. You do your best, but you just love the baby, right? But when we cry like that and we don't know why, oh, we're not nice to ourselves, but it's like, what's the difference? It's like, if I know, great. If I don't, it's okay. I just need to love myself. And then from there, the part of me that says it's not okay, the part of me that says, like, if you have a bad teenager, you know, we're just going to throw the teenager and say, Hey, we don't let you anymore get out of, you know, we love the teenager. If they're difficult and we've got to say, no, we've got a lot of boundaries, but we still love them. And it's the same thing with ourselves when we hear we want to do this without ugly stuff. Like I always say, my protective. I've got a name, we name and claim our these part of us. Okay, 

Rich Bennett 27:46
Right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 27:46
so if I would name my protector today, her name would be Beth Yellowstone. That's how she. 

Rich Bennett 27:51
Oh. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 27:52
Yeah, She's rough. 

Rich Bennett 27:53
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 27:54
And he has taken no prisoners. They go on to this track, the train stop. Okay. So she got drop them off. So, you know, in my mind, I just go there. I just let her say what she wants to say. I just don't let her have my mouth. 

Rich Bennett 28:08
Dean beyond Dean. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 28:09
Right. I don't let it take me over. I don't let her do the whole things because, you know, she was taking me to the train station. Soon she was 

Rich Bennett 28:16
Right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 28:16
taking the train station to drop off over the cliff. You know, But it's like in that today, I just let that part have a voice like a teenager, you know? And I just love it. Listen to it, draw it, write it, whatever. And then. Okay. Thanks for sharing 

Rich Bennett 28:30
It goes back to the old bumper 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 28:31
bumper 

Rich Bennett 28:32
sticker. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 28:32
sticker. 

Rich Bennett 28:32
WW Judy, think about that. What would Jesus do? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 28:35
Exactly. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 28:37
But, Dean, I got to ask you this, because she brought up Beth. How many times does she 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 28:42
Does 

Rich Bennett 28:42
call 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 28:42
she call 

Rich Bennett 28:42
you Rip? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 28:42
you? Oh, I've never I've never been accused of being. 

He's the guy, you know, Dean is the monsignor. His his protector is the monsignor. He wants to dismiss and be like, pray about it and be all you know, all that. But it's like, can you imagine Beth and the monsignor being together? Oh, no, no, no. They do not get along, 

and 

Rich Bennett 29:11
I 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 29:11
I. 

Rich Bennett 29:11
never I didn't think I'd be laughing so much for this episode. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 29:17
But you know, it is good because he. 

Rich Bennett 29:19
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 29:19
That's what happens. It's like, well, you know, there's two things. There's there's two types of religious practice. There's healthy religion, which is actually seeking to increase unconscious contact with God, which is awesome. But there's also unhealthy religion, which is using religion in rituals as a way to escape my human condition and to escape my emotional life. So it actually takes on some of the same some of the same characteristics of an addiction. Hmm. And so so really, you know, part of my journey was to begin to sort those two out because there was there was the unhealthy and the healthy in me. And as I came out of the seminary trying to sort that out. But it's it looks different, right? Because, you know, if she's shooting cocaine, everybody agrees that's pretty bad for you. But 

Rich Bennett 30:09
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 30:09
if I'm going to church ten times a day, you know, it looks a little different. But right there, it could be unhealthy elements to both of them. So so you had to have to separated. But that's that's the problem with with trying to identify coping behaviors when they are positive appearing things. Right. Because you could have someone who uses work right to escape their emotional life. There's nothing wrong with working hard. But if that becomes a compulsion, I become a work aholic and I can't let go of work. And I'm neglecting my wife and I'm neglecting my kids and I'm neglecting hobbies and this and my health. It's hard to say that. Hard to say that something unhealthy because I'm bringing in lots of money. But there is it's destroying the things that are very important to me. So in that sense, it's it's an unhealthy, addictive type behavior, but it looks very different than cocaine. 

Rich Bennett 31:03
Right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 31:05
But once you start to understand that, obviously you don't quit working. But it needs to be moderated within the value system of what's most important to you. And then you get to a place of freedom. But I find people that are caught up in that type of thing suffering just as much as those that are caught up in addiction with drugs and alcohol. Right. 

Rich Bennett 31:26
Well, there they say money is the root of all evil. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 31:29
It's the love of money. 

Rich Bennett 31:31
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 31:32
The love. The attachment to the attachment. Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 31:36
Sorry. I always said if I. Who was it? Somebody. Some billionaire keeps giving this money away. Give it to me. I'm going to turn around and give it to somebody. It needs it. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 31:46
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 31:46
If I'm 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 31:46
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 31:46
living within my means, I'm fine. I'm fine. I want to get to the book. A road 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 31:52
All right. 

Rich Bennett 31:52
map to the soul. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 31:54
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 31:55
First of all, what made you both decide to write this? I have a funny feeling. I know, but. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 32:05
Yeah, well, when we got married, we were went on a honeymoon. We were on Santorini Island in Greece, 

Rich Bennett 32:13
Who? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 32:14
and. Yeah, it's beautiful. And I was asking how, like. And we started visiting about our married life together. We're married 33 years. And she said one of the things I want to do is write a book. And I said, Well, you know, you're dyslexic and you can barely read. How are you going to write a book? 

Rich Bennett 32:32
You surprised? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 32:33
And she said she said, That's why I got you as. 

Rich Bennett 32:37
Oh, 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 32:40
So. So we knew we were going to write a book. But, you know, over time, Holly Kim was really just an extraordinary therapist. 

Rich Bennett 32:48
yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 32:49
Like, she really and I was in school studying to be a professional counselor, but she was already doing it. And, you know, she's very intuitive and having great results. And I started to ask and I said, what are you doing? Like, how do you work with people? Because I'm learning all these different some of my goofy theories, and it's not so. So she says, when I work with somebody, I see three she sees visually, right? She doesn't see words. She says, I see three parts of them. I see they're wounded part. I see they're angry part. I see who they really are and how they switch. And so I work with each part and love on each part. And she started explaining it. And that's when we were started working together to put a language to what she was seeing. And that's what the book Roadmap to the Soul was really the the language that we put in the work that she was doing and gets access. And I adopted that. And that's that's been how we've been doing for over three decades. Our work with clients. It's it's a road map that we bring them through. But that really is where the book came from. 

Rich Bennett 33:56
When was the book published? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 33:58
First first go round in 99 and we've 

Rich Bennett 34:00
Why? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 34:00
been. Since the early nineties. 

Rich Bennett 34:04
Really? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 34:04
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 34:06
Wait a minute. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 34:08
This act. 

Rich Bennett 34:08
This has been asked is 99. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 34:10
Yes. 

But, you know, when we had our son, when we when we adopted our 

Rich Bennett 34:17
Wow. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 34:17
son. Yeah. When we adopted our son, we were on a trajectory before that and we used to speak a lot and, you know, we didn't have podcasts then and everything. 

Rich Bennett 34:26
Right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 34:26
We got him in 99, but we used to speak and we were, you know, doing the circuit and all of that in a lot of TV and, you know, different things. And we were actually offered the intervention show in 98 and I could not see as before reality TV. I could not see how that would destroy someone's life 

Rich Bennett 34:48
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 34:48
because we did it interventions. But, you know, just exposing them and all that. I just could not see that now. And, you know, in my heart, I there's no way I would want to hurt another human being and expose them like that. 

Rich Bennett 34:59
Right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 35:00
So although they have done it and they've done it well, and the guy that wanted to do it with us was very I mean, he was very, very sincere about getting the message out. So it was all good and pure, but I just couldn't do it at that time. So through that, we ended up right after that, our son, we got our son and he was three and a half months old. He's from Cambodia and I'm 39 years old. You know, Dean's four years younger than me. So we decided that instead of pushing our career and doing this, we would just do it locally and 

Rich Bennett 35:33
Right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 35:34
we would raise our son. So what we did was we did our thing, but we did not push like, you know, like we were prior to getting him because we were married eight years before we got him and worked together always. So through that, he is getting married November 16th. 

Rich Bennett 35:52
Really? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 35:53
Yes. He's 25 years old. His name is Moses and he's awesome and we love him. And so we've taken up where we left off, where we left off after giving him everything, you know. 

Rich Bennett 36:05
Wow. So this is the only book you guys have written then? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 36:11
Yeah. We could have done more, but we were. We were busy with my. Our boy. 

Rich Bennett 36:16
But the good thing is this is a guidebook. And even 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 36:18
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 36:18
though it was, it came out and you said with 99. Everything in it is still relevant today. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 36:24
Oh, it's fresh. Yeah, it's fresh. Yeah, We just did our third edition, and we. We hardly changed anything. No. 

Rich Bennett 36:31
Right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 36:32
We just because it's pure. Yeah. Yeah, it's. 

Rich Bennett 36:35
Now, do you send it to any recovery centers or anything? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 36:39
Well, we have a we have a treatment center right now. 

Rich Bennett 36:43
Right. I knew that. Oh, you. Oh, I thought you were told that, 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 36:45
Used 

Rich Bennett 36:45
Your 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 36:46
to have some trees. 

Rich Bennett 36:46
Honor. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 36:46
We used to have a tree, but then we not do it anymore. But we have a treatment center that is looking. We're talking to them. It's a church 

Rich Bennett 36:55
Mm 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 36:55
that 

Rich Bennett 36:55
hmm. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 36:55
turned into a tree because of that 365 clients. 

Rich Bennett 36:59
Wow. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 36:59
And we're lucky we have an online course now. We used to do this process. We do it individually, couples, families, and then we used to do a three day process before we got our son. So now it's, you know, we got all of this, the Internet and everything we have online course, that's 3 to 4 months. And it's called Transform You. So this treatment center is looking at putting it into their treatment center. Is that correct? As their curriculum? Because they're the people that are the head of the church. We did a conference not long ago and they were freaking out and they were just like, this is unbelievable. I mean, because they're both in recovery from years. 

Rich Bennett 37:41
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 37:42
They've been sober like us forever. And, you know, they're like, this is like they were, like, freaking out, Like, this is so good. So they we've been dialoguing with the lady that runs the place. And because, you know, we can we do an online course now and we can it's so easy. We can get it in places, you know, 

Rich Bennett 38:00
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 38:00
and it's pure. I mean, the goal is that we're going to train some therapies that want to do it because now we had an online course. We have somebody from Hong Kong, we have people from Hawaii. So that, you know, the time zone. So the goal is to to train people in those languages and train them in that kind of thing. So, you know, we don't miss anyone. 

Rich Bennett 38:20
I'm sitting here looking at your website. You guys offer a lot of different services. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 38:25
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 38:27
I mean, Christian Campbell's sports performance. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 38:31
Oh, that's my man. Yeah, he is a baseball player. I played with Bo Jackson in college. 

Rich Bennett 38:36
Really? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 38:37
Yeah, before. 

Rich Bennett 38:38
I mean, what position? Don't tell me. I want to say you were probably a pitcher. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 38:42
I was a catcher. 

Rich Bennett 38:44
I was close. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 38:45
Yeah. You were very close. 

Rich Bennett 38:46
Just the wrong side. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 38:47
That's right. He didn't want to get. He didn't want to get hit with the ball by the back. 

Rich Bennett 38:54
Still my favorite sport. Loved. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 38:56
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 38:57
Love to play playing the. The reason I'm looking at that you guys said you you don't have your practice anymore. Everything you do is virtually right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 39:06
What we do. We have a practice also. 

Rich Bennett 39:08
You still have a physical place. Okay. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 39:10
Yeah, but we do have a bit of both. We do both. 

Rich Bennett 39:13
Now, do you? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 39:14
One. 

Rich Bennett 39:14
Do you travel the country and and speak and do seminars or anything? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 39:19
We're open. We had I mean, we just did last last month or month. Yeah. Last month we did something in San Jose, California. We did a three day workshop. Mm hmm. 

Rich Bennett 39:30
Okay. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 39:31
And so we have been, you know, get back on a horse again out of my son's taken care of. 

Rich Bennett 39:37
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 39:37
So we were at. 

Rich Bennett 39:39
People need you guys. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 39:41
Thank you. Well, you know, what's so interesting, Rick, is that it's been very powerful because, you know, we have people that we've worked with 30 years ago, 25 years ago, and they do this process. But they'll call us and like we have somebody in the program right now on the online course. And she she's from here. But she she knew us when we got engaged. So 

Rich Bennett 40:07
Right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 40:07
that. 34 years ago. And I saw her for a while. And then she called me and she wanted to come in. So I said, Well, come up. So she comes in. I remember. I remember everything about it. Right. So we're talking and, you know, she's got she's been divorced and she's got two kids getting married, which is a lot. And 

Rich Bennett 40:26
Wow. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 40:26
she has foster children. Okay. And she's like. Once they see me about a few things, I said, Look, just do the course. Now, she went to the the when the three day when that changed her life, she's like, This changed my life. I said, do the online course because what I can give you in that is so much more. And I can't even believe how much people are getting. And so she's in that and she's like, I don't know if I'll ever leave Holly Cam, because what's happened since we've done it and we have people, they do their they do the course and we do live like this. You know, we do live coaching courses. I mean, counselling like coaching group sessions with them weekly. But they don't want to leave the course. They want to do it again. They're like, Can we do it again? We're like. 

Rich Bennett 41:13
Wow. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 41:14
Yeah, I know. I'm like, You won't do it again. And they're like, Yeah, we're doing it. They're like, I want to go deeper now. So. 

Rich Bennett 41:23
Who? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 41:23
Because now they understand it. They want 

Rich Bennett 41:25
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 41:25
to. So they just keep and we have somebody that's done it three times. He won't leave. I mean, people are like they they because it's so healthy and they can see the things that they've gotten stuck in their lives 

Rich Bennett 41:42
Yeah, 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 41:43
that how you know, when you get stuck in this, like why is this keep coming up. They're understanding intellectually. They're gifted in their heart and then they're understanding the skills to be able to love themself through it and not beat themselves up because it may be something that deserves to be loved. For a long time, we got a testimony recently of a couple that went through the program, and we were just asking them, What did you get? We wanted to use it as a testimony 

Rich Bennett 42:10
right. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 42:10
and the guy said, he said, My fights have gone from three days to 30 seconds. I was wide awake and quite. 

Rich Bennett 42:22
I. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 42:23
He said, I'm still having them, but they only last 30 seconds in my three days. 

Rich Bennett 42:28
So it doesn't take him three days to say he's sorry to miss. She was right. In other words. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 42:33
That's right. Exactly. 

Oh, that's a good. 

Rich Bennett 42:38
Happy wife, happy life. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 42:40
That's true. So funny. 

Rich Bennett 42:43
Oh, geez, I. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 42:49
That's that's good news right there. 

Rich Bennett 42:52
Actually, I'm glad you brought that up besides him. Can you share? Actually, I will share a couple a couple of feel good stories from people that have either. Read your book and it's changed her life. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 43:05
We're. 

Rich Bennett 43:06
People that have. Come to you, you know, physically or whatever. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 43:11
Whatever. 

Rich Bennett 43:11
You share some 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 43:12
Here's 

Rich Bennett 43:12
feelgood. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 43:12
a few of the stories. Oh, yes. Love them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, I mean, one one that comes to mind is a guy that was, you know, traumatized through being sexually abused. And and it was just a horrible experience and, you know, and ended up acting out a lot of different ways and caused a lot of damage for himself and others. But his work through that has has really come to terms with that has really contained any acting out, doing really well. But today he has people all over the United States from different support groups that he does virtually that he helps break out of the very same thing that he dealt with. So he's walking. I mean, he has numerous, numerous people that he's working with that are he's walking them through, working through the abuse. He's walking them through how to contain and stop acting out and how to do the same. So here you go. You have a situation where a person has been traumatized. The most shameful thing in their life that they've dealt with and didn't really talk about and so forth has been transformed. And now he's given life to those with the same struggle and helping them come out into the light. And I say, you know, that's that's the process. Like, that's that's the healing process in a nutshell is the very things that the deepest hurts that we have that have held us back. They go through the gauntlet of the healing process and then the other side it comes out to where I'm given life to people in the very areas that are suffering and I'm no longer suffering there. And to me, that's that's the greatest testimony. 

Rich Bennett 44:59
Yeah. It's a big reward to. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 45:02
Big reward. Yeah. Well, I have a a girl lady. A lady that in her late thirties, and she's from California and, you know, really has worked on herself, come from dysfunctional system and loves God, has been a missionary. Young like in the twenties, very highly educated, not married and. He had been in and out of therapy working herself for about 15 years when she met me. So we'd been we worked together for about two years, about every other week. And her thing was, I don't want to be in. I don't want I want to get out the shame off of me. And how would I ever bring somebody in to this dysfunctional family that I have, you know, just really like both. You know, she loves him, but there's, you know, this. They are who they are. So we worked really she worked really, really hard. And she's awesome. Okay. And now she is engaged. Not engaged. She's close to be engaged, but she's in love. She has a boyfriend and she is free and she tells everybody about her romances. So she says, everybody vouches for you. She says, I have so many people from California. You know, it's unbelievable because she just she's she just talks about her voice and she talks about who she is. She really knows how to love herself. And when, you know how to love yourself, you love others very well. And it's like they feel it and they can see how different she is, even though she's always been who she is. But now she's vulnerable about it and she's not afraid. If they don't accept her because she accepts herself so much. Yeah, that was beautiful. We also had this couple that come to mind. They started the process and we didn't realize the extent of the animosity that they had. Fighting every day. I mean, every day. 

Rich Bennett 46:58
Wow. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 46:58
Serious fighting. So four kids then before we started, about four kids. And so that comes along. They came on the live coaching and she announced that they hadn't had a fight, like in three weeks. You know, I mean, it was just like, you know, every day they have to fight every day. Haven't had a fight in three weeks. And the fun thing about it was that her kids had noticed that her and her husband go in the room and they joined this coaching call. So the kids are asking them, Are y'all doing y'all's call? When are you? 

So when you have the kids encouraging you. Paul, You know something's going wrong. 

Rich Bennett 47:39
Huh? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 47:41
And it is so good because she had her family come in. Okay. 

Rich Bennett 47:46
Mm. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 47:46
And so. She said when the family left, the triggers were going crazy. They had gotten triggered, triggered, triggered. I was triggered. So the kids, they had a family meeting and they all six of them talked about all the triggers they had and how how their protectors wanted to take and be mad at everybody. So they had this family mean everybody got to talk about their protectors and how mad they were about it. And then everybody talked about what it reminded them of and what was hurting and what, you know, what pain they had from left over. And then she said they had a great time, like nobody like the six of them were not fighting. Okay. They understood that they were being triggered and that they they they took control of it. And it's like, I mean, what more could you want? Like, you're changing generations by allowing the, you know, the parents taking on and really becoming the most healthy as they can become. And then they teach their children they have an angry self, a sad self and a happy self, and then they all get to talk from that perspective without feeling like you're being attacked. 

Rich Bennett 48:50
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 48:51
Yeah. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 48:52
While. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 48:53
And. 

Rich Bennett 48:55
So I want you guys to tell everybody. A couple of things. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 49:00
Okay, 

Rich Bennett 49:00
Number one, why they need to get this book 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 49:03
well. 

Rich Bennett 49:03
even if somebody is not in addiction themselves. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 49:05
Sure. 

Rich Bennett 49:06
Everybody knows somebody in addiction. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 49:08
Sure. 

Rich Bennett 49:09
Tell everybody why they need to get this book. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 49:11
Well, it's really for everybody. It's for anybody. We all have coping behaviours, unhealthy coping behaviors. And so that's really what it is, is it helps you identify that. But, you know, we're all called we all, each one of us have a destiny. And there's things that block that destiny. There's past experiences that we recall from those unhealthy thoughts and behaviors that hold us back. And so the road map in a road map to the soul gives you a tangible ways to remove all of those blocks so that you can be who God has destined you to be. So in that sense, you know, it's going to add value to whatever you've done because we all have blocks. And it just keeps you moving to another level, a higher level. Yeah, I would say if you're if you are an addict or in recovery or not, you're suffering from some type of addiction that this helps you understand what's happening. It gives a language to inner life, to your inner life. And then if you love someone that is suffering, it helps you understand them, but it also helps you understand yourself. Because we become addicted to those people. 

Rich Bennett 50:24
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 50:25
Yeah, because we want to fix them and that's love. But it helps you understand that. And I always say it's the first place that we can give to you to show you that you deserve to invest in yourself. That the love you have inside of you deserves to come out. And this is one way of you know, putting them, putting it to paper and looking at because we have exercises in there. 

Rich Bennett 50:48
Mm 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 50:48
But 

Rich Bennett 50:48
hmm. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 50:48
when you start here, you start to see. Then all of a sudden it's like, I may want more. Hopefully they would want more, you know, not just from us. I mean, we want this our process. We've always wanted it to be a compliment to anything anybody has ever done and anything anybody would ever do. 

Rich Bennett 51:05
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 51:06
That it becomes just a piece that in the puzzle that we can give you to help you learn to love yourself better. 

Rich Bennett 51:13
Once you learn to love yourself. You're going to respect yourself as well. And it's just going to put that or. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 51:19
Or all. 

Rich Bennett 51:20
That is going to attract positive people to you. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 51:24
Yeah, exactly. Course. 

Rich Bennett 51:26
Something else very important. Tell everybody your website how they can get in touch with you and take part and transform you. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 51:35
Yeah, well, our website is real simple. It's I have a voice dot com and you can go there. We have a free YouTube channel that you can there's hundreds of videos on all the things that we're talking about. And then, you know, if you really want to go into a deep dive, you can look transform you. It's where you. Yeah, I have a voice icon and you can get information about that program. And what we do is we interview you to make sure what we're offering is what you're looking for and is a good match. And if that works, then we get you into a awesome transformation process. 

Rich Bennett 52:15
Either one of you have anything to add? Before I get to my last question, which my last question is probably going to blow Holly Kim away more than. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 52:23
Well, I want to thank you. I mean, you're such a delightful host. 

Rich Bennett 52:27
Thank you. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 52:28
And you draw draw that out. I love your spirit and I love the enthusiasm that you have and, you know, really have enjoyed immensely this time together. 

Rich Bennett 52:37
Oh, if you guys ever make it up this way. We're going to have to do it in person, and I'll make sure I get Wendy, my co-host, to sit in with us. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 52:47
Yeah, that'd be fun. 

Rich Bennett 52:48
Great. All right. So, Holly Kim. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 52:51
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 52:53
Are you still doing the art? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 52:56
You know, I have to. I have my easel set. I used to do a lot of art. 

Rich Bennett 53:00
Uh huh. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 53:01
I used to do a lot of art. I would have my clients. 

She opened a gallery in New Orleans for me and. 

Rich Bennett 53:09
Oh, 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 53:10
And, you know, when 911 hit, I did a bunch of art for the Teamsters and the the firehouses and stuff in New York and the police stations. But. But after we moved from here and Katrina and everything, we moved right before Katrina. But Katrina destroyed all that. I haven't done a lot, but I used to do a lot. And I have everything set up. So I got commissioned not long ago to do a smoke in the fire. 

Rich Bennett 53:36
no. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 53:36
Yes. I feel like God's been poking mates. 

Rich Bennett 53:39
I think God's telling you to do it. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 53:41
I think he is doing it because I do. Prophetic art is what I do. 

Rich Bennett 53:46
And if I Dean, 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 53:48
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 53:48
if she doesn't get back and start it within the next 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 53:51
next. 

Rich Bennett 53:51
well, let's say in the new year, you got the wedding coming up. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 53:55
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 53:56
Started in the New year. Get in touch with me and I'll. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 54:00
A call in the Marines. 

Rich Bennett 54:02
Well, no, I'm good. I'm. A friend of mine on her. I'll make sure she does it. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 54:07
Okay. That's all right. Well, then. 

Rich Bennett 54:09
Yeah. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 54:10
I love it. 

Rich Bennett 54:13
Oh, he can't. Dean, thank you so much. Please, please give Moses my congratulations. And actually, where's the wedding going to be at? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 54:23
It's in a little town called Amy, and it's called It's like you cross this long bridge. It's exactly where we go. It. 

Bridge, Bridge, Long bridge across all sides. 

Rich Bennett 54:39
Geez. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 54:40
Not city at all. He's Kamau. Yeah. So it's in a little bitty town, that is. He's invited, like, 250 people. He's. 

Rich Bennett 54:48
Wow. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 54:49
Bart. Yeah. He's a he's a good. He's so good. Yeah, he's so good. He's paying for his low and he's 25 years old, but his he bought his fiancee a $10,000 ring. He's in no debt. 

Rich Bennett 55:02
Dean, are you officiating? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 55:04
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 55:05
Are you really? 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 55:06
Yeah. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 55:07
That is also. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 55:08
So I told them the only way I would officiate if him and his fiance. I did transform you. Yes. So, yeah, because they've had to do the course they have to do. So since they're almost complete. Yeah, I'm doing the work. He's got I think they on, they're on number nine so they have nine or ten left. 

Rich Bennett 55:27
Oh, wow. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 55:28
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 55:29
Yeah, we're going to have to, you know, and if I come down to New Orleans, I'm going to look you guys up 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 55:34
Look us up. Yes, 

Rich Bennett 55:35
because. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 55:35
please do. 

Rich Bennett 55:36
I need some of your dishes that are highly. 

Look, I've been losing weight, but I'll be happy to put it back on. I guess a good few look saying he's got to get that bill. Belly bill. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 55:52
Yes, indeed. 

Rich Bennett 55:54
Holly, Kim, Dean, thank you so much. God bless you both. And I cannot wait to connect again. 

Dr. Dean Sunseri & HollyKem Sunseri 56:02
Thank you.