Rediscovering Love through Music: Barron Ryan’s 'Honey, If It Wasn't for You'

Rich Bennett 0:00
Thanks for joining the conversation. Today I am joined by Baron Ryan. Hailing from a musical lineage, Baron Ryan is a pianist and motivational speaker whose artistry seamlessly blends the classic with the contemporary. His journey, marked by a fusion of Mozart to Motown showcase, is a performer who refuses to be boxed into a single genre from his early piano lessons with his father to his innovative compositions that bridged the gap between funk, pop country and classical music. Baird's work is a testament to the power of musical evolution, recognized by Smithsonian magazine as one of the ten innovators to watch in 2021 and with a recently published illustrated Storybook for adults under his belt, which are going to be talking about Baird's multifaceted career is a testament to his relentless pursuit of musical excellence. So please join me in welcoming the incredibly talented bear, Ryan Barron. How's it going? And I hope you're speaking better to me today. 

Barron Ryan 1:04
It's a wonderful you know, it's going to be fired. We're going to this is this you? This this is authentic. We're not we're not too polished. 

Rich Bennett 1:11
So one of the things I like to ask. Back in high school, middle school, elementary school, whatever. Was it always your plan to be a musician, to be a music teacher? 

Barron Ryan 1:23
It wasn't my plan to be a professional musician. I always loved. I always loved to perform my dad as a professional. As you alluded to. And and I would see him perform on stage and think, well, I want to be on stage. I want people to clap for me. 

Rich Bennett 1:35
Right? 

Barron Ryan 1:36
So I started taking lessons when I was four, but I didn't really think, Oh, I'm going to do this for a living until I was 16. When I had I had dreams of being a rich engineer like Bill Gates. Right. And then and then I took AP Physics and realized, Oh, well, this isn't going to work out. I should look at what else what I could actually do. And music was the first choice. That's really what I was. 16 is what I what I decided to pursue it more seriously. 

Rich Bennett 2:02
Okay. Now, did you go to college afterwards? 

Barron Ryan 2:04
I did. I went to the University of Oklahoma and got a piano performance degree. I was both a drummer and a pianist. 

Rich Bennett 2:12
Yeah, a piano performance degree. 

Barron Ryan 2:16
Yes, there. 

Rich Bennett 2:16
Is. I never heard of that. Wow. 

Barron Ryan 2:18
Yeah. You can get you can get different musical instrumental and vocal performance degrees from. 

Rich Bennett 2:23
Okay. 

Barron Ryan 2:24
From many schools. Often you can you can do a performance degree which is obviously more associated with performance. You can also get a Bachelor of Arts, which is less rigorous. You can also get an education degree. Those are the three most at least those are the ones that were offered at my school. 

Rich Bennett 2:39
Okay. 

Barron Ryan 2:39
In music as an undergraduate. 

Rich Bennett 2:41
And you said drums as well? 

Barron Ryan 2:42
Yes, I played drums, and I still do from time to time. But I started when I was three. I started piano when I was four. So drums a little bit sooner. And I loved playing drums. I played in my dad's piano jazz piano trio because what it was a sophomore, a summer. I remember it was a Saturday night and I was just upstairs in our house and my dad called and said, Barron, pack up your drums. You're playing with me tonight because his drummer couldn't make it. And so I was the backup substitute and I never I became first chair immediately, the first call for him to play with. So I played drums with my dad for a long time. But I realized that drums were not as professionally flexible or viable right as the piano. So. 

Rich Bennett 3:28
So what kind of music was your father's trio playing? 

Barron Ryan 3:31
We were playing stuff like, like American Songbook tunes. 

Misty We were playing just the way you are. So a little bit eighties pop too, into Billy Joel and Elton John, but a lot of music that people might dance to and that era, we would play it at a city club and on a on a Saturday night. We had he had a monthly performance there. 

Rich Bennett 3:56
Okay. 

Barron Ryan 3:57
And people would dance. And so things like 

like there will never be another you and all the things you are. Those types of tunes, tunes that Sinatra or Nat King Cole would sing. 

Rich Bennett 4:09
Yeah, Good stuff. 

Barron Ryan 4:11
Yes. Yes. 

Rich Bennett 4:12
That's I always like to say big bands. Always been my favorite. 

Barron Ryan 4:15
Oh, me too. 

Rich Bennett 4:16
But I mean, I love all types and big bands, and I'm the one that can actually sit in there, sit here and listen to opera, too. 

Barron Ryan 4:24
But okay. 

F1 S3 4:25
Well, the only part was there. 

Rich Bennett 4:29
I can only do that when nobody's here with me because like with classical music, I love listening to that, but I got to crank it up. Uh huh. You know, and I'm won't usually I'll have to put the LP on because I love to pick apart the different instruments, you know. And unfortunately with CDs you don't get that a lot. So I, I got to ask you this. 

Barron Ryan 4:50
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 4:50
Classic meets. Cool. 

Barron Ryan 4:53
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 4:54
Explained it. 

Barron Ryan 4:56
I didn't want to have to choose. Okay. I grew up with all these different musical influences, influences, classical, jazz, pop, funk, a little country, 

soul, blues. And I thought, there's that quality beauty does not belong to only one of these. And I can I can play more than one. And so I don't want to have to I don't want people's expectation to be that I'm going to play one type of these. And then I add in some of that something else and they get confused. I thought, I want to create my own category so that I can play whatever kind of music I want, and at least there's a name that I can attach to it. 

Rich Bennett 5:36
Yeah, I was going to say, so those of you listening, if you're wondering what I meant by classic meets Cool, he's been described as the performer where classic meets cool. And now you know why. 

Barron Ryan 5:47
Yes, I it's a moniker that I gave myself. 

Rich Bennett 5:50
And the role that I sometimes I give my self my own nickname before. 

F1 S3 5:57
So yeah. 

Barron Ryan 5:58
What's branding? You have to do that. 

Rich Bennett 6:00
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. All right. So because I want to get right into the book in the song, because I found I found them both amazing. This the story behind Honey, If it wasn't for you, it's unique and it's touching. Can you share the moment you first came across the original lyrics and what resonated with you? 

Barron Ryan 6:21
Yes. So if I can give a little backstory, I became friends with a woman named Linda, who was very supportive in my work. She saw me at a concert and and we would talk on the phone periodically and meet in person for coffee, for four meals, and only two years into our friendship did she say, Did I ever tell you that my husband was a songwriter? I said, No, you didn't mention that. I knew that she had been married. I had guessed that she'd been married and had been widowed for some time. But this was the first time she had mentioned it. And she said, yes, you left behind these boxes of song lyrics. I wonder if you'd want to look at them. And I, I was I didn't know what I was going to do with them. I just thought, this is this is a very vulnerable moment for her to invite me into this part of her life, which she had not even mentioned before. And so I said, of course. So she gave me these song lyrics and I thought the best possible story that could come from this scenario is if I found lyrics to a song that Don, her husband wrote about his wife, and then I could set it to music. So it's this kind of very specific. I didn't want a song that had already existed, which there were those right at the box as well, because there wasn't much for me to do there. I needed to find something that I could contribute significantly to. And so I found I was I was digging through this box and I thought, man, I hope this is here. Because if it's not that this is going to be I don't know what I'm going to do, that's going to be very disappointing. But I found a song called Honey If it Wasn't for You and reading it, I knew that he was talking about his wife, about that dog loud about his wife. And so I thought, this is this is the golden Mike Gold. I don't know about my golden ticket, but this is what I was looking for. It couldn't have been any closer to Yeah, to my ideal of what I could find in this box. And so I just I didn't know exactly how it was going to manifest, but I thought this is the most beautiful, beautiful musical story that I've discovered yet. And so I just knew that I needed to share it, assuming that Linda would let me. So that was yet to be determined. But thankfully she did. 

Rich Bennett 8:36
You know, when I read the book and that part about her giving you the boxes of the lyrics, it reminded me of a movie I saw. 

Barron Ryan 8:44
Really? 

Rich Bennett 8:45
Yeah. Oh, apparently you may not have seen this movie. 

Barron Ryan 8:49
Probably not. 

Rich Bennett 8:50
Purple Rain. 

Barron Ryan 8:51
Oh, I have a prince. 

Rich Bennett 8:53
Oh, you got to watch it because. Yeah, the one part I believe is his father had died and his father was a musician. And he is going through all these lyrics that his father wrote all this music. And he actually how he came across. Was it Purple Rain or When Doves Cry, one of the songs in the movie. But that reminded me of all I saw as I read this, which is great because even though this is a it's not a long book, it's not novel. Now you see this becoming a movie just because of the story behind it. 

Barron Ryan 9:28
Yes, I certainly can see it, too. I hope that I hope that it reaches the right hands and sees that potential because it's such a beautiful story of sacrifice on both parts. Yeah. From Linda, from Don in their marriage, and then on Linda toward me for opening this part, opening this part of her life up to me and to the whole world really. 

Rich Bennett 9:50
Now, when you actually so you came across the song or the lyrics, you composed the music. How was that especially, I mean, working with somebody that's no longer here. 

Barron Ryan 10:05
Mm hmm. Well, I you know, so part of me thought, well, should I should I listen to his other songs and try to write something that matched that? And I thought, no, I'm not trying to recreate what he would do. This is this is me adding my own voice to the song. So I didn't worry. I did. In fact, I still there were. There were demo tapes in the in other boxes that she gave me. Okay. Of of some of his other songs. But they were reel to reel tapes and and I didn't she gave me the reel to reel player but she couldn't find the power cord for it so I. 

Rich Bennett 10:38
God. 

F1 S3 10:39
I could have. 

Barron Ryan 10:40
Found one, I'm sure. But, but I thought I don't really need to do that to, to write music to this song. Right. And so what I did is I, I made it. I patterned it off of a little bit of the type of music that I knew who he was in. He was a country songwriter. Oh, in Dallas. So I, I wrote a melody that you could hear as a country tune. I don't have a twang, and I wasn't going to try to attract one for this. And I play the piano, which is not really a country instrument. 

Rich Bennett 11:08
So Ronnie Milsap plays piano. 

F1 S3 11:11
Well, it's not a song that it's not 

like Kramer played piano. 

Barron Ryan 11:16
Yeah, but. And in fact, Don Fagin, the the lyricist, played piano. That was his main instrument. 

Rich Bennett 11:23
But. Okay. 

Barron Ryan 11:24
But it's not. Yeah, it's not a quintessential instrument. 

Rich Bennett 11:28
So the guitar. 

Barron Ryan 11:29
Right? Right. Or the fiddle. 

Rich Bennett 11:31
Yeah. 

Barron Ryan 11:31
Or pedal steel. 

Anyway, so I, I just wrote a melody that was relatively simple and, and stayed within a small range because that's all that my voice can do as well. And, and then I just wrote, I just thought this is, this should be a, a comfortable melody. It should feel comfortable, it should feel familiar. And so I just try to write something that felt familiar and and then at the end, it gets a little adventurous because I couldn't help myself. 

Rich Bennett 12:01
So how long did it actually take you to write it? 

Barron Ryan 12:04
Not long at all. I okay, there's, there's, there's the matter of writing the basic I the basic gist, so to speak, of the melody. And then there's the matter of finding how to fit the words to it. Exactly. That took a little bit longer because from one verse to another, there are different numbers of syllables in a line and there's different emphasis on different words. So you have to you have to adjust what you have in mind already to fit those words. Exactly. But the melody itself took me. I know it took me a matter of it took me less than an hour, probably y maybe even shorter than that to to come up with the basic idea. And then it was just a matter of fitting it to the words. Wow. 

Rich Bennett 12:47
You know, it used to take me, you know? 

So how many songs have you written total? Do you even. 

Barron Ryan 12:56
Know songs as in. 

Rich Bennett 12:59
Composition with lyrics without? 

Barron Ryan 13:01
Yeah. Okay. You know, I have a burden. I've this is maybe my second or third song with. 

Rich Bennett 13:08
Okay. 

Barron Ryan 13:09
Because I'm not a I don't think in terms of words I think in terms of music In. 

Rich Bennett 13:13
Terms of music due to talking. 

Barron Ryan 13:15
Right, right. Which is this was perfect because somebody already had the words for this one. 

Rich Bennett 13:20
Mm. 

Barron Ryan 13:21
For, for other pieces I've written, you know, it's not, it's not like I've written dozens. In fact I only started writing original music as a professional, not just, just, not just for myself and that I share it with anybody. In 2019, it was actually because of Linda. Linda. 

Linda arranged for me to play at a concert for a concert at the college where she and her husband went and met. 

Rich Bennett 13:51
Okay. 

Barron Ryan 13:52
And I needed new music to play. I thought I had I had played classical music that has jazz or ragtime influence. Like George Gershwin. Yeah, I had played transcriptions of my favorite jazz pianist. So I would I would listen to and write down every note that say Oscar Peterson plays in a recording and then learn to play it. And and I needed a new project. And because of this concert, I had to come up with it at that time. And I thought, well, I want to play classical music that has funk influence or or rag or or country or pop. Yeah, and I couldn't find it. And so I thought, well, I guess I have to write it myself. So that's really when I first started writing music to be heard by anybody else in 2019. Yes, Yes. Now, before that, I had I had been arranging music, so I had taken Jackson five I Want You back and made it into a piano version. But in terms of writing original music, it's just been, well, what was I've more often been been problem oriented as a, as a musician, I don't think what do I want to do? I look at what problems exist and and I think, well, what can I create that solves this problem that solves as many of these problems as possible? So I need to I need to go on tour and play a classical music program, but I don't want to play Bach and Beethoven because everybody plays those. I want to find something that I'm uniquely good at, and I also want to turn that into an album and that I can tour. So what can I, what can I create? I'll play classical with attitude, classical music that has I love that influence. So the writing was just a solution to a problem that was there. It wasn't something that I thought, Oh, I need to start writing or, or, or something of that sort. 

Rich Bennett 15:37
Okay. Wow. So I take it Linda was the first one you played this for? 

Barron Ryan 15:41
Yes. Yes. 

Rich Bennett 15:43
What was your reaction? 

Barron Ryan 15:44
I, I was so nervous about it because I thought, if she doesn't like this, then nobody's ever going to hear it. Because I wanted her. I wanted her to to approve it. I wasn't ready to share because I had to tell about the story. If I was going to play the song, I had to tell you about the story. And it's her story to tell. And so I wasn't going to do it without her permission. So there was a lot riding on this, on the performance. And so what I had prepared her a little bit for it because I she had dropped off the boxes, which it took her months to actually give me, by the way, because she hadn't opened them for 40 years. 

Rich Bennett 16:20
And for I'm sorry. For how long? 

Barron Ryan 16:22
For 40 years. She had not open to these boxes. In fact, it was it was after her husband had died. This was the she told me about this on this the 40th year after Don had died. And so so that it was on her mind because it was that that was a big number. And it was one of those, you know, numbers that ends in zero. So those are more significant in our minds. Right? So when she when she hadn't opened them and she thought, if I'm going to give these to Baron, then I've got to I've got to look through them myself before I hand them over. And she had to bring herself to do that. Then the first thing that she that she saw when she opened it was the the program for Don's funeral in I forget which he had two services, one in Dallas where they lived and one in Tulsa where they where he grew up. Okay. And so so she didn't give me these to me. I kept on saying I would like to see these if you want to show them to me. But I had to be persistent, Right? So so I after she gave me the boxes, I met with her again and I handed her the lyric sheet of honey, if it wasn't for you and said, had you have you seen these lyrics before? And she had not seen those lyrics before. 

Rich Bennett 17:38
Oh, wow. 

Barron Ryan 17:39
So she had looked through I guess she hadn't looked through everything, but she had looked through just a little bit at the top, as opposed to make sure that she didn't give me anything she did want me to have right. So she had not see them and she asked me to send her a scan of it. So I sent her the the lyrics and she read through them. So she had she had read them before I before she knew that I was making a song out of it. 

Rich Bennett 18:03
Okay. 

Barron Ryan 18:03
She figured that I was probably doing something because I asked about it. So I sat her down to answer your question. I sat her down and I performed the song and I had a box of tissues there because I thought she meant. 

Rich Bennett 18:16
Be of sense to me. 

F1 S3 18:18
Yeah, yeah, true. 

Barron Ryan 18:19
True. But I finished the song and I looked over and she was misty eyed, but she wasn't. She wasn't weeping. Right. And and her first reaction was, well, it sounds like those were those were made together and not like they were made by different people. The lyrics and the music, they sounded like they were perfectly suited for each other. 

Rich Bennett 18:38
That you bet. That's got to be a huge compliment. 

Barron Ryan 18:40
It was. It was. I thought, Oh, well. 

Rich Bennett 18:45
And for her out of the ballpark. 

Barron Ryan 18:46
Yes. For for her to especially since the lyricist is her her husband, someone is very close to her. And she actually said that when she first read the lyrics, she thought they were a little she wasn't sold on them. She thought they were a little. The the chorus is is one line repeated. Right. And then, honey, if it wasn't for you as the line, honey, if it wasn't for you, there would be no song, honey, if it wasn't for you. So it's it's not a very complex chorus. And she, she wasn't really she wasn't sold by that. And it when she just read it. But when she heard me sing my version of it, she, she said, oh well I, I'm on board now. 

Rich Bennett 19:24
I Wow. 

Barron Ryan 19:27
Yeah. So that, so that was wonderful. And, 

and so that's when I let's see, I think it was that that day that I asked if it would be okay to work on, to work on some way of sharing. In fact I already had the idea of, of the book at that point. 

Rich Bennett 19:45
Okay. 

Barron Ryan 19:46
And I said, would it be okay for me to to develop this idea and and keep you apprised and and then and see where it goes? And she granted me her permission. 

Rich Bennett 19:57
Nice. No. All right, let me get this straight. You said before she gave you the boxes. Donald, was he passed away 40 years previous. 

Barron Ryan 20:07
Right? Right. 

Rich Bennett 20:08
And I have to ask this. How old is Linda about? 

Barron Ryan 20:11
Linda is. Let's see. She's in her upper seventies. 

Rich Bennett 20:17
How old was Donald when he passed? 

Barron Ryan 20:19
He was 38. 

Rich Bennett 20:20
Oh, my God. 

Barron Ryan 20:22
Yeah, he had cystic fibrosis and. Oh, and so 38 was pretty old when at during that time. Especially right to to live when when Linda would tell people that her husband had cystic fibrosis, they would say, you mean your son, your son has cystic fibrosis because it was very uncommon for. Yeah. For an adult to have to to be surviving with that disease. 

Rich Bennett 20:48
Wow. And she didn't look at anything in those boxes for 40 years. Right. And kept them. That's even more amazing. 

Barron Ryan 20:56
Well, you know what? This is not in the book. What he said literally on his deathbed in the hospital, he he asked her, well, what's going to happen to my music? And she said, I'll do with it what I can. And so this was on her mind. In the 40th year afterward, she was thinking, I made that promise to Don 40 years ago. And I haven't I don't have anything to show for it. And so part of her mentioning it to me was that being on her mind and and she says that she said that she mentioned it offhandedly, that she was just it was kind of a throwaway. I wonder if you'd want to look at this. And that's not how I took it. 

But but that's certainly that that marker, that 40 year marker and the fact that she hadn't yet done anything with with that promise was was on her mind. And the reason that that it came up. 

Rich Bennett 21:52
All right. So now the song honey if it wasn't for you, is that going to be part of an album. 

Barron Ryan 21:59
So it it may eventually. My idea was that the song itself was so special that I thought about. I thought, well, I could make an album of more of these songs of his. 

Rich Bennett 22:12
Of Donald, of Don's. 

Barron Ryan 22:13
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 22:14
Yeah. That's how I was thinking. 

Barron Ryan 22:16
But I really wanted to focus the story on Linda and the three of us. So if there is, let's say that that a movie gets made of it at some point and there's more demand, then I might do something more. But it seemed like the first step at least, was to make just this song and the book so that the story that's told in the book and through the song is is the focal point of of that first project. 

Rich Bennett 22:45
Okay. And with the book now I tell you, this is the first book you've ever done. 

Barron Ryan 22:50
Yes, it is. 

Rich Bennett 22:51
What made you decide to to do a. All right. Well, it's not a children's book. It's not the right illustration book. But what made you decide to do that instead of like a novel? 

Barron Ryan 23:03
Yes. So it again, it was it was a number of problems that the book solved all at once. Mm hmm. So I was actually initially thinking about doing a short documentary film, 10 minutes doing that, because I love Chef's Table, I love F1 Drive to survive that. There are a number of documentaries that I've watched and enjoyed, and so I thought, well, well, I could do that. But there were a number of problems with that. Number one, it's expensive. Yeah. Number two, I'd have to get Linda on screen for a significant. She would be the star write the movie, and she's not a very public person. So there would be some hurdles in getting her to to be willing to do it and comfortable on screen. And I thought, well, I need to convince a lot of people that this is worth it, that this is worth doing. And and I thought, well, how would I explain? How do I explain the story? It's a it's a at least a 40 year long story, if not nearly an 80 year long story, because Don's life began in 1941. So how do I explain that in 5 minutes? 

Rich Bennett 24:05
Right. 

Barron Ryan 24:06
And as I was driving one day, I thought, well, I would tell it as if it were an illustrated storybook, because that would be as concisely as possible that I could tell the story. And I thought, Well, I should just do that because it's much more feasible. All I need to do is write the words, hire an editor and hire an illustrator as opposed to all the many different roles that even a short documentary would require. And and plus, I would need to be able to introduce the song on stage before I play the song and if I had the illustrated storybook, I could just read from the book. And then also it would provide me an item of merchandise that I could sell after, right? So all these problems then became solved with this with this book. Now it created a challenge, which is that it doesn't look it looks like it's for children because, yeah, it doesn't have a category that it fits in neatly, which is fine with me. As you know, I don't like fitting it to categories, but they are useful to some degree, especially if you're trying to have people understand what you're doing. So that has been that has been a challenge that I didn't I didn't fully foresee. But I still I you know, I have the book right here and other people can't see it because we're on. Right. It's just audio. But what I wanted it to be a show, something that you might put on your coffee table like a magazine. Magazines are big for a reason, so they can showcase photos. And I thought, this is such a beautiful story. I want it to feel immersive and I want you to be able to leave for 5 minutes to make tea. And your guest is there at your coffee table and to read this book and be overwhelmed by its beauty. 

Rich Bennett 25:47
Great idea. 

Barron Ryan 25:48
And so so these are the reasons that I did it the way that I did and that and that if it's going to become a short documentary or if it becomes a feature film or whatever the book is, the sales pitch, I can just say here is, yeah, this is the story. 

Rich Bennett 26:05
That's a great idea. I love. 

F1 S3 26:07
That bag. 

Barron Ryan 26:07
You. 

Rich Bennett 26:08
And the song is well on Spotify, right? 

Barron Ryan 26:10
It's on all the streaming platforms. 

Rich Bennett 26:12
Okay. Yes. So put it on. I'll have to try this. Now, when I have somebody over, I'll put the book on the coffee table. I'll say, All right, I'll go make drinks for us. I'll be right back. Kind of nudged a book towards them and all of a sudden start the song on the TV on Spotify and say, Yeah, you got to check this out. Yes, it is. I mean, that's both of them. The song in the book just they're awesome. I love it. I love it. And you And here's the funny thing, because with and I've seen this a lot, I've had a lot of authors on, even children's authors, but we can learn from children's books. Mm hmm. Your book is an adult illustrated book, but even kids can get a lot from this. Mm hmm. And, well, got everybody can get a lot from this because it's a great story. It's a great. It's a it's a heart. It'll get you right in the heart, you know? It's a feel good feel good story, which is something we need more of. 

Barron Ryan 27:19
Yeah. Today it exhibits a love between people that is not that does not require or expect anything in return. Or for Linda to knowingly marry a man who was going to who was going to leave her and leave this life sooner than she likely would, sooner than most of us will. That is a tremendous sacrifice. And I don't talk about it as in great degree in the book, but that is the just to willingly go into that situation. It's still it's still overwhelms me. And I think, well, I it's kind of an example to to try to live up to. I think, okay, well, how am I and that and then for Don to sit at home and write songs in dedication to his wife. So I think, okay, well, by living up to that example. 

Rich Bennett 28:18
Yeah. 

Barron Ryan 28:19
And it's it, it's, it's something that we aspire to, I think. 

Rich Bennett 28:22
Yeah, I can see you doing a tribute album for him. 

Barron Ryan 28:26
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 28:27
Well, seriously, I mean, I, I mean, just his works and I, even if. Oh, that would be a good challenge because you said he's written a lot of lyrics, but maybe even doing some of them just, you know, without the lyrics and let your music tell the story. 

Barron Ryan 28:45
Mm hmm. Which, well, we'll see. We'll see. I have another project that I'm on right now. What's what's terrific about the classic meets cool idea about really what it is, is, is it's a story. It's the shortest possible story I can tell because I want the music that I present to be to tell a story. What's great about that is that I can there are no limits, really, on on whether I do this genre or that genre, because what I thankfully am cultivating is an audience who is not there because I'm making their favorite kind of music. They're there because because of the journey, the adventure that we're all going on together. And so I'm doing a completely different project right now. It's for violin, cello and piano. Oh, a piece. A piece commemorating an atrocity that happened in my hometown of Tulsa in 1921 called the Tulsa Race Massacre. 

So it's completely different. 

Rich Bennett 29:42
Okay. 

Barron Ryan 29:42
But but as it I'm always open to, well, what's the next what's the next form of beauty that I'm uniquely positioned for? So that's that's also if if after this, I go back to Don's lyrics or somewhere else, it's always just, well, what's, what is the most captivating form of of beauty that I can find and present and share? 

Rich Bennett 30:06
All right. You have to explain now that you said the Tulsa race massacre, correct? 

Barron Ryan 30:11
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 30:12
What was that? 

Barron Ryan 30:13
It was well, it began as an incident in an elevator in 1921 on May 31st. 

Rich Bennett 30:19
Wow. 

Barron Ryan 30:20
I a young black man and a young white woman who was the operator of the elevator. There was a an incident. She claimed that not now. I'm not sure about this detail exactly, but she screamed and he was arrested for having accosted her or assaulted her. 

Rich Bennett 30:41
Right. 

Barron Ryan 30:42
And then began and Tulsa was known for it, had an area of town called Black Wall Street. It was a very successful successfully, I should say, successful black region of town and more so than other cities. That's why it was called Black Wall Street, because it was so it was thriving so much. 

Rich Bennett 31:03
And this was in 1921, 19. 

Barron Ryan 31:05
20. 

Rich Bennett 31:05
One. Wow. Okay. 

Barron Ryan 31:06
And there was and so there was a lot of resentment from from some whites in the area who were envious and and malicious toward toward that part of town and toward their success. And so once this young man was arrested, there, a mob formed at the where where he was in jail. And eventually I'm not a historian, so I I'll skip over some some of the right parts of the story. But ultimately, the mob became violent and burned to the ground. Most of black Wall Street. There were. 

Rich Bennett 31:48
Wire. 

Barron Ryan 31:49
Reports of there being planes in the air shooting quite into that. Yes. And so the the official report is that there were a dozen under 100, but dozens of people killed. The unofficial report is more like 300 people were killed in this region of town. And the the whole area was decimated. 

Rich Bennett 32:11
Wow. 

Barron Ryan 32:12
And so that happened in 1921. And I was commissioned to write a work of chamber music to commemorate the centennial of this of this atrocity for 2021. 

Rich Bennett 32:29
Whoa. I never heard of that. 

Barron Ryan 32:32
Yes, a lot of people have. And it's not the only racially charged incident that happened at that time. There were there were a lot of those. But it was one of the biggest maybe I think it was, if not the biggest, then the second in terms of in terms of lives lost. 

Rich Bennett 32:46
Right. 

Barron Ryan 32:46
And and so my hometown of Tulsa has been trying to reckon and reconcile ourselves with that. Okay. But I didn't want to it's very easy to say, well, it's, it's because they were racist and I'm not racist. And so we're going to look at that and say that that that was terrible, but we would never do something like that. And I am that concerns me because what in my view, what motivated that action was deeper than racism. It was it was the belief that the perpetrators were superior to those against whom they were perpetrating. And even the act of looking upon them, looking down our noses upon them is the same attitude that they had. Which is to say that 

that I believe that I am I could be capable of something like that if I am not careful. And so what I part of what I want to do is not say, wasn't that terrible and and aren't we better than that now? But to say we are capable of that too, And how do we prevent that from happening in a different context, maybe outside of race? 

Rich Bennett 34:01
Right. 

Barron Ryan 34:02
So what I did, though, even I mean, that that's kind of my thought process in approaching it and approaching how I speak about it. But but what I did musically, I tried to make more universal because I want my music to be about stories, as I told you. Yeah. And I, I'm getting better at identifying stories that are more universal. And so I read an account of of the massacre by a woman who sheltered in her bedroom with her daughter. Her daughter was a young girl at the time, and she said that they read one or two chapters of Psalms of David O prayed that they that she would find courage to stand through it all. And I thought, ah, there are this was a sorrowful event. This was a grievous event. 

Rich Bennett 34:48
Yeah. 

Barron Ryan 34:48
And there are Psalms which are full of sorrow. And so I found a very the darkest one by some accounts, which is Psalm 88, and it says that my soul is full of troubles and my life dry nigh unto the grave. And I thought that is, that is an expression that befit this, the memory of this travesty. Yes, my soul is full of troubles. And so I, I wrote a work for violin, cello and piano and titled My Soul is Full of Troubles. And the goal was to was to evoke the sort of sorrow and grief that I think of when reflecting upon the massacre of 1921. Why, that's why I got the Smithsonian mention. Was that that. 

Rich Bennett 35:36
Okay. 

Barron Ryan 35:37
For that for that composition then. 

Rich Bennett 35:40
Oh, now see, now that's available on streaming services. 

Barron Ryan 35:43
It's not yet. So that's the next part of the story. Here we go. 

F1 S3 35:47
So I guess there's more. 

Barron Ryan 35:49
It unfolds. So I wrote that that that work was in classical music we call the movement. So if there's a break and then there's more, then that's a movement of a larger work. This was a single movement work, so it was just self-contained, but it was and it was 15 minutes long. But I thought, I don't want this to be I don't to end with sorrow, right? Cause Tulsa has not forever dwelt in the sorrow of 1921. And and so I want to represent the hope with which we act in in pursuit of a better tomorrow. So what I did, instead of trying to convey, I hope that all of us could agree upon, I just thought this is just music. This is inspiration for music. So what I'll do is go back to my source material as I go back to the Psalms, because later and in that same chapter, the psalmist writes, Will they will they? Now I need to memorize this because I don't have a complete memorize, but. Well, will thy wonders be be known in the dark, but in but unto the have I cried And in the morning will my prayer prevent thee? So there's this is a a moment of reflection, a moment of prayer. So I what I did is I proposed to Chamber Music Tulsa, who commissioned me to write this piece. I said I would like to write two more movements, one of of reflection of discovery, you might say, and then one of triumph. And so my middle movement is called on to be have I cried. And then the last movement is the is the victory conveyed in the next chapter. Psalm 89. Okay. And it says the heavens shall praise thy wonders. So it's this three movement work of struggle, discovery and triumph inspired by the mask convert. Really, It tells a story that's universal that we we all aspire to. We all struggle. We all hope to discover how to overcome our struggles. And we all strive to to reach that point of triumph. 

Rich Bennett 37:58
I call wait for this. 

Barron Ryan 38:00
That piece I just premiered in in September. 

Rich Bennett 38:05
Okay. 

Barron Ryan 38:05
And I'm recording it in January and it should come out by the beginning of June of 2024. 

Rich Bennett 38:13
I got to wait till June. 

Barron Ryan 38:15
Unfortunately. Yes. 

Rich Bennett 38:17
Well, that's all right. That just means you're going to have to come back on when all this is finished and talk about it. Okay. Deal. I got I can sit here and talk about music for 4 hours and I just love I talked about this with another guest. Actually, she she is she composes a lot of music and one of the things I brought up is how the meaning of a song or a composition can change over time. Mm hmm. Which even for I think even for the one that composes it, because it just I mean, there's stuff that I listened to 

God years ago, even the rock and the pop, which I couldn't understand. And now I listen to it now and it's got a different meaning. It just I like it now. Yes, I did like it then. And then there are some songs that just really you love, but there some of them just make you angry. 

Barron Ryan 39:21
Mm hmm. 

Rich Bennett 39:21
Like you're writing it up, just like I mentioned this to or Flight of the Valkyries. I could just. I hear that I'm ready to write. Yeah. Radio. I think it's the Marine in me. I don't know. But then there's, you know, just other ones where you just want to sit back and have a good cry or whatever, which sometimes you need. 

Barron Ryan 39:42
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 39:42
You know. 

Barron Ryan 39:43
I think great art draws upon human experience in a way that even the artist can't articulate at the time. Yeah, I have. I have had the experience of writing something and then going back and realizing, Oh, well, that's there's a connection to an emotion within those notes that didn't even realize was there at the time. I just thought it sounded like the right thing to do at that moment. And only later do you do you hear something? And maybe you never do. Maybe. And often other people hear things that you didn't even pick up on. Yeah. You didn't even intend there. Things about the about the piece that I wrote, My soul is full of troubles, for instance, where I think, okay, I want this these set of notes to evoke. I want this to sound like a sigh, and I want this to sound like a sob, and I want this to sound like a moan. But there are other parts that I didn't think about. I just thought, Well, I need something that sounds good with those with the things that I planned. Right. And and only later do I think, oh, well, those are war drums that I'm that I'm playing in the piano part. It's the, it's the, the camera 

fading in on a scene of destruction and you hear the war drums in the distance and then you hear the mourning. So and I think about that. 

Rich Bennett 41:09
I love it. I love it, actually. Is there any 

musician or songwriter that or composer that you would like to work with? 

Barron Ryan 41:23
I would love to work with Yo-Yo Ma. He's been. 

Rich Bennett 41:27
Oh. 

Barron Ryan 41:28
One of my heroes. 

Rich Bennett 41:30
Oh, wow. 

Barron Ryan 41:32
Because what I've tried to do is reverse engineer what he did because he does so many things. Yeah, he does. 

Rich Bennett 41:40
Oh, he's amazing. 

Barron Ryan 41:41
He's an amazing classical musician. Yeah, but he he plays bluegrass, too, And he he did the soundtrack for Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and he did whatever you want to call his collaboration with Bobby McFerrin a couple of decades ago or so. And so he so I looked at him and a few other artists as well, like Bela Fleck and Bobby McFerrin, and thought they're not confined by anything, any one category in particular. How do I do that? And so I didn't have I couldn't ask them, or at least I didn't try to ask them. Right. What I've tried to do is structure my path so that it reflected what they did. 

Rich Bennett 42:21
Oh, there you. That is one artist that is. He's just amazing. Yes, he is amazing. I would I would love for him to come in here. I would love to see him perform. 

Barron Ryan 42:34
He is coming to about an hour away from where I live in April. And that in August is when the tickets went on sale and they were already sold out by then. 

Rich Bennett 42:45
I believe. 

Barron Ryan 42:45
It. I don't know. I checked, I think a couple of weeks later because I had seen it and then forgotten about it and I thought, Oh, I need to get tickets. And they were already sold out. And it's it's not just that he's an amazing musician. He is, but there are a lot of amazing musicians, and I'm not sure what it is about him exactly, but there's something that that is even beyond the fact that he can play notes really well. 

Rich Bennett 43:07
Yeah, you know what's going to happen? You're going to get a call when he's there performing. Say their pianist can't make it. They need there. Well, where did that be? Awesome. 

Barron Ryan 43:18
I would be terrified, but awesome. 

Rich Bennett 43:22
I think you would be fine up there. I thank you and I. 

Barron Ryan 43:25
Thank you for your your confidence. 

Rich Bennett 43:28
So something very important. Where can people get the book? 

Barron Ryan 43:32
Yes, they can go to book Dot Barrow and Ryan Dotcom. Okay, so my name is spelled with 2 hours and an O bookshop barrow and Ryan dot com. 

Rich Bennett 43:41
Is now is is self-published. 

Barron Ryan 43:42
It is. 

Rich Bennett 43:43
It it is self-published. 

Barron Ryan 43:44
And that site will take you. You can either get the e-book or you can get the hard copy. And so it will take you to either a Google drive for the e-book or Amazon for the hard copy. 

Rich Bennett 43:56
Google Drive on. Google doesn't have a store to buy books to now. 

Barron Ryan 44:00
So if you get the e-book, this is something else that's curious about me. I do not. I do not maintain intellectual property on the creations that I present, that I offer. So the e-book, the physical book exists in the world. It costs money to make it costs money to ship. And so you do have to pay for that. But an e-book marginally costs me nothing. Okay, already exists. I put it online and so you can have I stored out a Google drive because I don't require you to pay for it. I just say here, you can download it. 

Rich Bennett 44:35
Oh wow. 

Barron Ryan 44:36
If you want. And then I and then I say, if you would like to support my work, then you can. And here's here are ways that you can contribute to my next project. 

Rich Bennett 44:44
But okay. 

Barron Ryan 44:45
But, but you can have it for free. 

Rich Bennett 44:48
Well, in that case, where do people go so they can contribute to your next project? Ha. Well, of course. Here. Here. Your work? 

Barron Ryan 44:55
Yes. They should go. That's it. You know, right now I'm currently building the, 

the site for my next fund because I'm fundraising for this next recording. 

Rich Bennett 45:08
Right. 

Barron Ryan 45:08
That I'm doing and it's probably two or three weeks from being up. But you can go to you can go to Beren Ryan dot com or just follow me on on any of the social me whatever social media you're on okay nobody's impersonating me yet so if you search for me and it looks like me do you Father I would. 

Rich Bennett 45:27
I know you're on your Web site. Are you doing all the are you writing all the blogs yourself? 

Barron Ryan 45:32
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 45:33
Really? 

Barron Ryan 45:34
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 45:35
Your website is awesome to. Yeah, it's a great website. 

Barron Ryan 45:39
You hate it. Thank you. 

Rich Bennett 45:40
And yeah, so people go there, subscribe. I did subscribe to the newsletter. 

Barron Ryan 45:44
I did get that email. I said. 

Rich Bennett 45:46
Okay, yes, subscribe to the newsletter. If you purchased a book, make sure you leave a full review of the book. If you don't purchase the book, if you get the copy, then make sure you do need to in the next project. 

Barron Ryan 46:01
That would be wonderful, you. 

Rich Bennett 46:02
Know, because I can't wait to hear this next one. Was it the 1921 Tulsa massacre, right? Yes, Yes. Okay. 

Barron Ryan 46:12
The Tulsa race massacre is what that was what it's called. Okay. Oh, I didn't tell you the title of that whole work, so I told you the movements. Okay, My soul is full of troubles. Until the end, I cried and the heaven shop prays that wonders. The title of the whole thing is There Arises Light in the Darkness. 

Rich Bennett 46:28
Ooh, this is a lot better. Did the 1921 Tulsa Race massacre? Yes. Wow. Wow. So, Bearing, is there anything you would like to add before I ask you my final question? 

Barron Ryan 46:41
I think we've covered we've covered the high points. We've covered the book. My new project, my no Rights Reserved policy. 

Rich Bennett 46:50
Playing with Yo-Yo Ma. 

Barron Ryan 46:51
Yes. So if you're listening to this, Mr. Ma, then sign up for my newsletter. 

Rich Bennett 47:00
Okay, So you fit in with some interviews and something I love to ask people and of all the people that have interviewed you, is there something that a house has never asked you that you wish they would have asked you? And if so, what would be that question? What would be your answer? 

Barron Ryan 47:17
Hmm. 

So one thing that I do talk about sometimes is, is why I make music. And what my mission is, and it is to discover and present the beauty I'm uniquely positioned for. So I have shared that. But no one has yet asked me what I think beauty is. 

Rich Bennett 47:43
Oh, that's a good question. That's a deep question. What do you think beauty is? 

Barron Ryan 47:49
I think beauty is the evidence of love. It shows someone that you love them or that you love someone anyway, right. 

And I believe that. And you could go further, which is what is love? Yeah. And I think love is the willingness to sacrifice for someone else. So the beauty is, is showing that you have sacrificed in some degree because I think that there's more. That's beautiful than just art, than music, than painting what have you. A home cooked meal is beautiful because you have someone has taken effort to provide that for someone else. 

A hug, an encouraging word. Those are all beautiful, but they're not something that you would put in a museum or present in a concert hall. And so I think that we're all capable of beauty and even 

in our own ways, can can present more beauty to the world through the people, to the people that we know than I can to strangers. 

Rich Bennett 49:03
And that's that's another song. 

Barron Ryan 49:07
I've got to figure out how to say it. 

Rich Bennett 49:08
I think I to play it, just play it. I mean, with that said, just just sit there at the piano and just play it and it's right there and the words will come to everybody else's mind, I believe. Bear, I want to thank you so much. It's been a true pleasure, man, and great, great, great job on the song and the book. Like I said, they're both awesome. Everybody, you have to get it. And you still talk to Linda, right? 

Barron Ryan 49:42
Yes. Oh, yes. We're good. 

Rich Bennett 49:43
Friends. Oh, yeah. Oh, man. I mean, think about that. We should have had her on as well. 

Barron Ryan 49:50
She might. I might have had to coax her a little bit and say, well, you could sit next to me. 

Rich Bennett 49:54
But that would have is that would have been fun. 

Barron Ryan 49:57
For the book release event. I did convince her to to appear on stage and be interviewed with me. And that was just wonderful. 

Rich Bennett 50:07
Oh, wow. 

Barron Ryan 50:08
Because that was the first time that I think had talked about it. The only time so far that she had talked about it in public. 

Rich Bennett 50:15
I bet she felt good afterwards. 

Barron Ryan 50:17
She felt relief. She was very nervous beforehand. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 50:20
That is awesome. 

Barron Ryan 50:21
I think she did feel good, especially seeing the response that that people who were there had and the the gratitude that they had. 

Rich Bennett 50:31
All right. So when you go on tour, you know you're going to make your way up towards Maryland. 

Barron Ryan 50:36
Oh, yeah. You know what? 

Rich Bennett 50:37
Oh. 

Barron Ryan 50:38
I was just in Maryland. 

Rich Bennett 50:40
Get out of here. 

Barron Ryan 50:41
I was in where's Garret Lakes County or Garret County? 

Rich Bennett 50:46
Deer County? Yeah, Yeah, we've Creek. Yeah, that way. Yeah. 

Barron Ryan 50:49
Yeah. So I was there with my dad. We performed together on two pianos. Oh, yeah. We didn't talk about that. There's so much I forgot about it all. 

Rich Bennett 50:57
That's right. You got to come on again. 

Barron Ryan 50:59
Okay? We could do that anyway. So we're. 

Rich Bennett 51:00
Just. My wife and daughter were just at a deep creek. 

Barron Ryan 51:03
It's beautiful there. 

Rich Bennett 51:05
Oh, I know. 

Barron Ryan 51:06
Especially right now. We were there a little bit before the peak leaves. Yeah, spring color season. But even still, there were there were some that were that were starting to change. 

Rich Bennett 51:17
All right, Now that's 3 hours away from me. So you got to make it closer towards Chesapeake Bay. 

Barron Ryan 51:22
Okay? Okay, I'll work on that. I'm sure I can. 

Rich Bennett 51:25
Bay, you blew me away. There's like, Yeah, we are just a barrel. Like, what? Are you kidding. 

Barron Ryan 51:30
Me? Well, good. Not close enough that you. That you regret missing it. So we'll work on getting a little closer. 

Rich Bennett 51:35
It's as good, Baird. Thanks a lot. 

Barron Ryan 51:37
Thank you. It's been a pleasure.