CleverCat's Purrfect Marketing Strategies to Unlock Success

Michelle Hayes 0:00
I have the honor of sitting down with the young lady who my son and I actually DJ at her wedding. And it was the last wedding. It was October, October 21st. And 

Wendy Beck 0:14
She is a newlywed. 

Michelle Hayes 0:15
they. 

Wendy Beck 0:15
Congratulations. 

Michelle Hayes 0:17
It's time to show his 

show is. If you're friends with me on Facebook, I'm sure you got the invite to your company. Clever marketing. Clever. 

Wendy Beck 0:32
Clever cat. Clever cat. 

Michelle Hayes 0:33
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 0:34
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 0:35
Well, sure, 

Wendy Beck 0:39
Did 

Michelle Hayes 0:39
if she's 

Wendy Beck 0:39
she? 

Michelle Hayes 0:40
a cat. 

Wendy Beck 0:41
Ooh. 

Michelle Hayes 0:41
I am. I have. I have three cats. 

Wendy Beck 0:43
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 0:44
I, I love my babies. I've always been a cat lady. And these cats that do all the morning. 

Wendy Beck 0:49
Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 0:50
Well, what happened? Can I tell the story? Sure, go ahead. She was working one day work, doing some marketing, and the cat came up and. Our keyboarding started and it came up with some stuff that she realized man can spend 

some days not only. 

Wendy Beck 1:09
Clever. Yes, well, they do. I have a kitten and he walks on the computer all the time. So it's definitely a thing. 

Michelle Hayes 1:17
They're usually on my lap when I'm working or they're like, sitting next to my computer. How many? I have three. Okay, three. I would have more. But I also have a husband who says no. 

Wendy Beck 1:28
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 1:28
So unfortunately, I only have three, but my mom has three. No, my mom has four. So you've always been around? Oh, yeah. I love cats. Dogs, Always dogs, too. I don't have one now. My cats are pretty much trained like dogs. They play fetch. They know the words. I play fetch. He does? No, he does. He's black and white. His name's Aston Martin. 

I've never seen a cat play. I've seen it. If I threw, they get it. Kind of look at being more or less a white man. And you go get it. You throw it. It's more fun if you throw it down the stairs. Does it have a laser attached? No, It's literally a fluff ball. And we have a gun. We can shoot it down the stairs. He will run down the stairs, get it in his mouth and bring it right back to you and expect you to throw it again. 

Wendy Beck 2:25
Well, the kitten that we have, he will walk around with the the that puffball. It's so cute. The 

Michelle Hayes 2:31
Is 

Wendy Beck 2:31
pump is the 

Michelle Hayes 2:32
it the 

Wendy Beck 2:32
same 

Michelle Hayes 2:32
same thing 

Wendy Beck 2:32
thing 

Michelle Hayes 2:33
as 

Wendy Beck 2:33
as 

Michelle Hayes 2:33
a 

Wendy Beck 2:33
a 

Michelle Hayes 2:33
nerf? 

Wendy Beck 2:33
nerve ball. No, it's. 

Michelle Hayes 2:34
No. 

Wendy Beck 2:35
That's like furry fuzzy, you know? 

Michelle Hayes 2:38
It's kind of like a pom pom ball like you played with in second grade and glued onto a plate. It indicates. It's the texture in their mouth. They really like the texture in their mouth because their tongue is so rough. Ruff. Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 2:53
That's how you got the name of your came up with the name of your company. 

Michelle Hayes 2:57
Yes. So my husband actually came up with the name because I always have cats around me. They sleep with me like puppies. They have their spot on my bed and I just I always gravitate towards cats. I love all animals, but I always love my cats. And then the icon was also his creation. He actually had a photo of his family dog, who I adore, and she was sitting at his laptop when he was younger in his teens. And I love that picture. I think it's so her. It's so cute. And I love the idea of animals using technology. I think it's cute. 

Wendy Beck 3:34
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 3:35
Because if they had opposable thumbs, they would. But I love that picture. And so he was like, Why? Why can't a cat do it? 

Wendy Beck 3:45
Yeah, I think I might have seen that online. I might have. I might, Yeah. Now that you're saying it, I kind of do recall the. The cat with the computer. There we go. Very nice. Like they always do. But I have videos of cats on my. 

Michelle Hayes 3:59
Yes. Yes. 

Wendy Beck 4:01
That said there. 

Michelle Hayes 4:02
The temptation of putting random photos of my cat on my business. Facebook has been really, really hard to push aside. 

Wendy Beck 4:11
So tell us about your business. What? It's. Okay. Clever cat. And you are a social media. 

Michelle Hayes 4:19
Marketing of any sort that you need. I formerly worked at an agency. I got my start in marketing. Honestly, I worked in the call center at Under Armour and I loved that job. I did not like being in call center, but I loved solving problems and talking to people 

and I liked my boss used to call me a dog with a bone. I don't give up. 

Wendy Beck 4:47
I'll 

Michelle Hayes 4:47
You say? I don't know how to take 

Wendy Beck 4:48
take 

Michelle Hayes 4:48
that. 

Wendy Beck 4:48
that. 

Michelle Hayes 4:50
It was a good thing I don't give up if I have a problem and I have to solve it. I'm not going to just shove it to someone else. I'm not just going to give up. I'm going to figure it out. It might take me a few minutes, but I'm going to figure it out. So I applied for the CEO externship. There and I stuck. 

Wendy Beck 5:08
What does that mean as. 

Michelle Hayes 5:10
Social engine optimization. 

Wendy Beck 5:12
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 5:12
So that's making sure that when Google crawls your page, your page is able to be seen by the bots and able to be seen appropriately and in your favor. 

Wendy Beck 5:21
Yes. 

Michelle Hayes 5:22
Yep. So you want to make sure your keywords what what is your website about? So take Rage Against addiction. You want to make sure the word addiction is in your page enough so that you're going to rank for addiction. When you Google addiction, you want your page to be up there 

Wendy Beck 5:39
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 5:40
in one or two three, sometimes four in those search results. 

Wendy Beck 5:43
Yeah. This that is like honestly for the, you know, 

entrepreneur or nonprofit executive director or small business person. This is like a challenge because you're doing so many other things that you have no idea about this kind of. In order to get your business. 

Michelle Hayes 6:02
It's out there. 

Wendy Beck 6:03
There and it is challenging. So this is interesting to to know. Yeah, you're actually. 

Michelle Hayes 6:07
Do a marketing for. 

Wendy Beck 6:08
For what, one or two nonprofit? 

Michelle Hayes 6:10
So right now we're working with Bailey's heart and Soul. Okay? They're linked at the bottom of our website, and they've been awesome. They really was. 

Wendy Beck 6:21
He died. 

Michelle Hayes 6:22
And they're trying to get ahead. He died of a heart attack. 

Wendy Beck 6:26
What did we do? We talked to the family. I talked to his mother. Yes. Yes. 

Michelle Hayes 6:30
Yes, she. Oh, my gosh. 

Wendy Beck 6:31
Yes. Yes, I recall. 

Michelle Hayes 6:33
Sweet. I've only had the pleasure of emailing her, but she is so sweet in her emails. 

Wendy Beck 6:37
No. 

Michelle Hayes 6:37
I cannot wait to meet her. And then we also work with a free spirit gathering. We just finished their program for this year and that is a what it says is a free spirit gathering up at Camp Bramble Wood in Darlington. 

Wendy Beck 6:51
Mm hmm. 

Michelle Hayes 6:52
And that place. There you go. 

So it's everyone of every religion. Most are pagan. But they just come together and take off the mask that they have to wear during the rest of the year. And they have bunches of workshops and things like that. 

Wendy Beck 7:10
When is that? 

Michelle Hayes 7:12
That is the second weekend in August. 

Wendy Beck 7:15
And I never heard of it. So is this is this an ongoing thing? 

Michelle Hayes 7:18
Yes, they do it every year. 

Wendy Beck 7:19
So you said finish the project. So as a social media marketer, whatever you want, I don't know what your official title is, but. 

Michelle Hayes 7:26
Or founder. 

Wendy Beck 7:28
Founder. 

Michelle Hayes 7:29
Founder. 

Wendy Beck 7:30
Do you work by yourself? 

Michelle Hayes 7:31
So no, I have a co-founder 

because. I think many, many councillors make wise decisions and I also know enough to get me in trouble and I need that that balance. So my husband is the co-founder 

Wendy Beck 7:49
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 7:49
of Mitchell. He used to be in the military, so he's a veteran. He brings a lot of experience from tech and he loves to go to do anything with computers. He loves to learn. He's actually taken this as an opportunity to learn marketing. With me is. 

Wendy Beck 8:06
Mm hmm. 

Michelle Hayes 8:07
Because with marketing, it's one of those you're continuously learning. 

Wendy Beck 8:09
Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 8:10
Everything evolves. 

Wendy Beck 8:10
Yes, it is. 

Michelle Hayes 8:12
There's always a new tax. 

Wendy Beck 8:13
Very difficult. 

Michelle Hayes 8:14
Exactly. 

Wendy Beck 8:15
In the business world, honestly, 

Michelle Hayes 8:16
Yeah, 

Wendy Beck 8:17
it's hard to keep up. Like 

Michelle Hayes 8:18
it 

Wendy Beck 8:18
I'm 

Michelle Hayes 8:18
is. 

Wendy Beck 8:18
noticing that a lot. 

Michelle Hayes 8:20
Correct me if I'm wrong, but. 

Wendy Beck 8:21
Like with your website research. 

Michelle Hayes 8:22
Engine optimization Key keyword. 

Wendy Beck 8:24
Words. 

Michelle Hayes 8:26
Pretty key thing. But isn't it like key phrases? 

Wendy Beck 8:29
Yeah. Yeah. I mean. I mean, it's the other thing. 

Michelle Hayes 8:33
People were relying on, like, metal tags. Yeah, but you have to be careful because if you stuff your page on the back end with too many with keywords for example, just because that's an older one. If you stuffed too many keywords in there, then that negatively affects you because then that's keyword stuffing 

Rich Bennett 8:52
Surgeon. 

Michelle Hayes 8:53
and that's a negative. 

Wendy Beck 8:54
Flag or some. 

Michelle Hayes 8:54
Because you're basically cheating the system. 

Wendy Beck 8:56
Gotcha. 

Michelle Hayes 8:57
So 

Wendy Beck 8:57
Wow. 

Michelle Hayes 8:57
it's a 

Wendy Beck 8:58
That's why I'm like, oh, you know, I think 

Michelle Hayes 9:00
it's insane. 

Wendy Beck 9:00
with our. 

Michelle Hayes 9:01
Good. 

Wendy Beck 9:02
With No, just like with with religious website and and you know, social media platforms, you know, you. 

Michelle Hayes 9:08
You get to a certain point. 

Wendy Beck 9:10
You know, you get it all, but 

Michelle Hayes 9:11
If 

Wendy Beck 9:11
you 

Michelle Hayes 9:11
you get 

Wendy Beck 9:11
get to. 

Michelle Hayes 9:11
to a certain point. 

Wendy Beck 9:12
Point. And then I feel like we have a hard time growing. From there. So you kind of you don't become stagnant because it exists. And you, you know, you put fresh things on it and stuff, but you're not necessarily getting more likes and and more supporters and followers. And I guess traffic to your website because of those specific things that. 

Michelle Hayes 9:30
To keep the momentum. It really, really is because the thought. The thought of most people when they set up a website. And it's not necessarily wrong because before I knew about marketing and and everything that goes into that was you set up a website. It looks pretty cool. It works. 

Wendy Beck 9:47
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 9:47
All the links work, Everything goes where it should. We'll add to it when we need to. We're done 

Wendy Beck 9:52
But 

Michelle Hayes 9:52
and. 

Wendy Beck 9:52
that's not the case. 

Michelle Hayes 9:54
A living, breathing thing 

Wendy Beck 9:56
Yes. And 

Michelle Hayes 9:56
we have. 

Wendy Beck 9:56
we just had an issue, you know, just the other day where and this is I'm talking like I have no idea what I'm talking about. We're a. A plug in wasn't working, but we didn't even know it. And, you know, just like all kinds of stuff. And then like, they're asking me, well, what what do you want to do? And and I'm like, I don't know. I, I have no idea. 

Michelle Hayes 10:16
Right. Press TV. 

Wendy Beck 10:18
Yeah, we have. Yes, it's word press and a couple other things. And I have like, you know, a guy that does some stuff, you know, just like as we need it. But with that in mind, you know, that feels like an easier fit. But do you do like social media, like branding? 

Michelle Hayes 10:36
Absolutely. 

Wendy Beck 10:37
Stuff, and that's really more interesting. Taught me something very. I'm so bad at this, I. 

Rich Bennett 10:43
I got it correct. 

Michelle Hayes 10:45
What did I teach you? I'm scared. 

Wendy Beck 10:46
When we were high. 

Michelle Hayes 10:47
Because if we were looking at. 

Wendy Beck 10:49
I assure 

Michelle Hayes 10:49
You're just 

Wendy Beck 10:49
you a certain. 

Michelle Hayes 10:49
certain social media posts. 

Wendy Beck 10:52
And one pet peeve I've learned it's a pet peeve. 

Michelle Hayes 10:55
Viewers. And it 

Wendy Beck 10:55
It 

Michelle Hayes 10:55
may. 

Wendy Beck 10:55
makes sense and I need to get away from it is when you're looking at a social media page. 

Michelle Hayes 11:00
Oh. 

Wendy Beck 11:00
Pose as 

Seymour. Yeah. They're going to see. 

Michelle Hayes 11:05
The 

Wendy Beck 11:05
Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 11:05
killer of the social media AD Yes. 

Wendy Beck 11:08
Why would you? 

Michelle Hayes 11:09
Shouldn't have to see more. 

Wendy Beck 11:11
Okay. I thought that was I thought that was a way to get somebody to touch it and click it and all that kind of stuff. 

Michelle Hayes 11:16
It can be used that way. However, with the ad we were looking at, it was definitely so. If you think of social media marketing and you can think of any commercial, any ad out there, whether it's on Google, whether anywhere. 

Wendy Beck 11:30
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 11:31
Think of it as a funnel. So at the very, very top is the people that have never heard of you. That's your top of funnel. You want to get them into that funnel. So to get them into your funnel. You want them to be familiar with you, maybe not seeing you anywhere, maybe not seeking you out, but you want to get them into that funnel. So they're kind of familiar. 

Wendy Beck 11:53
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 11:54
The next step down is going to be your middle of final. You want them to be familiar with you, but maybe not like super besties. They know you are, but they don't know all the fun details. The bottom of funnel. 

Wendy Beck 12:08
Oh. 

Michelle Hayes 12:09
The bottom of funnel. Is where if you're selling something, they click that buy now button. 

Wendy Beck 12:16
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 12:16
That's where you seal that deal, whether that's buying a t shirt, whether that's coming to an AA meeting, if that's what they're looking for, whether that's buying tile for flooring or roofing or. For me that would be contacting me to have. 

Wendy Beck 12:32
That would be engagement. 

Michelle Hayes 12:33
Exactly. 

Wendy Beck 12:34
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 12:34
Exactly. Any type of engagement for one of your posts. That's where they have that action is that bottom of funnel. And you want to make sure you have ads in all three of those spaces. There can be a fourth little bottom part, and that's where they sign up for an email list. They purchase a membership if that's available, things like that. But the bottom part is kind of subjective to what you're trying to get them to do. 

Wendy Beck 13:01
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 13:01
Sometimes it doesn't exist. 

Wendy Beck 13:03
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 13:04
But I mean, it can be there. It just depends on the person 

Wendy Beck 13:07
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 13:07
or the business. So 

Wendy Beck 13:09
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 13:09
for 

Wendy Beck 13:09
For. 

Michelle Hayes 13:09
me, it helps to look at it that way because I can visualize it. I'm a I mean, I'm a marketer. I'm a visual person. Something doesn't look right. I just kind of point at it and say it doesn't look right. Fix it. Ah, but no, but. And everything is fine. Oh, my goodness. Yes. 

Wendy Beck 13:28
Well, I mean, and we're not all designed to have the same expertise. 

Michelle Hayes 13:31
Oh. 

Wendy Beck 13:32
So, like, I'm you know, we've talked about it before. I'm dyslexic, so my. Excuse me. My brain will order 

Michelle Hayes 13:38
Or correct some of 

Wendy Beck 13:39
of 

Michelle Hayes 13:39
that 

Wendy Beck 13:39
that 

Michelle Hayes 13:39
stuff. 

Wendy Beck 13:39
stuff. I'm doing it. Excuse me. Sorry about that. And. 

Michelle Hayes 13:45
Are you sick? 

Wendy Beck 13:46
No, no, no, no. I just think I got a little tickle in my throat. I'm not sick. And so. Yeah, So it's like having that. 

Michelle Hayes 13:53
Expertise. 

Wendy Beck 13:54
You know, when you get to a certain amount of followers where you don't want to have those types of errors, it requires a professional, you know, relationship chip with a marketer or social media thing. And and you get to a point because you're off doing other things in your business that that's not your. 

Michelle Hayes 14:12
Priority. 

Wendy Beck 14:13
Even though you know it is because tell us, like if you can tell me, like how important is social media and websites to a business these days? Like I feel like if you don't have that, you don't have a business. 

Michelle Hayes 14:27
In my opinion, because there will be people and I know there are people and businesses that disagree with me, but myself serving the small business and specialising in small and local business because that's where my heart is. It is very important because that is your voice. That is who you that's your hands. That's how you reach your local businesses. That's how you reach your local patrons. That's how you can get out in the world and tell them, Look, I'm going to be at a pop up shop at my personal favorite coffee spot, Coffee bar. I love their pop up shops. I mean, they have so many and such a broad. Such a broad, like everything can be a pop up shop. It's awesome. I bought. 

Wendy Beck 15:15
I didn't know that they did that. 

Michelle Hayes 15:16
Oh, my goodness. 

Wendy Beck 15:17
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 15:18
Friday, Saturday and Sunday, things are. 

Wendy Beck 15:21
So you just go in there, Somebody's usually there doing something. 

Michelle Hayes 15:23
Oh, yeah. 

Wendy Beck 15:24
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 15:25
I 

Wendy Beck 15:25
But 

Michelle Hayes 15:25
bought. 

Wendy Beck 15:25
people need to know that 

Michelle Hayes 15:26
All kinds of stuff. 

Wendy Beck 15:27
because. 

Michelle Hayes 15:28
Right. 

Wendy Beck 15:28
On social media, 

Michelle Hayes 15:29
Exactly. They need to go on social media. And if you're not putting ads out there on social media, if you're not even on social media, which is something that I've run into a lot lately with looking at different local brands think 

Wendy Beck 15:44
I think. 

Michelle Hayes 15:44
it's a problem. 

Wendy Beck 15:45
I mean, obviously that is a problem. But I also feel like, you know, sometimes you'll you'll send out posts, you know, for specific things. Let's just let's just say like a fundraiser or an opportunity to donate or something like that, and then you get nothing. It's like crickets. Like, you've put all this together. You made the flyer, you made the graphic. You did. You know, you have everything done, and then you get nothing. Like what? What? What's the failure there? Like, what kind of advice can you give? Is it just not reaching people or is it not interesting enough? Like what I feel like? 

Michelle Hayes 16:20
Correct me if I'm wrong, I think create an event for something like that, like on Facebook. So events are great. Um, but also consistency. I know this week I can personally admit I have not posted on my business page and that's something that me and Mitchell have or Mitchell and I excuse me, he will correct me on that. He's my grammar, like he's my grammar guy. 

But that's something that I fell short on this week because I had other focuses. 

Wendy Beck 16:51
Yeah, that happens to me, too. 

Michelle Hayes 16:52
You have a business, you're not focused on it. So that's why it's really great. And that's another reason why I decided that he and I are starting this together. His goal is to eventually step away. He does not want to work with me forever. 

Wendy Beck 17:07
Right? 

Michelle Hayes 17:08
He likes his day job. 

Wendy Beck 17:09
Yes. 

Michelle Hayes 17:10
And I. I'm really happy for him. Just. I love my husband. I don't want to work with my spouse forever because I want to stay married. 

Wendy Beck 17:19
That. 

Michelle Hayes 17:20
But that was another reason, because that consistency, if people only see you reaching out when you have an event or you want money from them, they're going to think you only want them to come to events or give you money. If you want to post like, Oh, it's Tuesday, why, you know, what do you have to have in front of you? Post fun, interactive things and then maybe every other post post about that event coming up or post about that. 

Wendy Beck 17:47
Yeah, I know. It's very strategic. We do, we post a lot of content. We, you know, inspirational, educational, you know, even just, you know, relevant to to what we do. But then I notice, like, you know, throwing out there some kind of event. We have a little bit it can be a little bit more challenging to get the engagement or get people to purchase tickets and and and I feel like now that is the only platform really, because like most people are not going to go to our website and be like, Oh, what events is rage having? You know, they have to kind of be driven there by the social media on Instagram or the Facebook. But I have another question about that. When you have something that's local. 

Michelle Hayes 18:29
And. 

Wendy Beck 18:29
And then your Facebook and your Instagram reach is so much more, you know, national or global. Like, how do you how do you use a funnel type of thing, like you said, to, like get the people that you want to actually see it and participate in it? 

Michelle Hayes 18:46
So there's different ways you can do that. If you want to stay on Facebook and there's different settings on the back end. You can use all kinds of settings. We could sit here all day and I can. 

Wendy Beck 18:59
Yeah, 

Michelle Hayes 18:59
One 

Wendy Beck 18:59
that's 

Michelle Hayes 18:59
by one, 

Wendy Beck 19:00
right. 

Michelle Hayes 19:00
and you would probably be bored out of your mind. 

Wendy Beck 19:02
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 19:03
If you want to use Google and do Google ads for it. My favorite thing about Google that I learned actually at my previous agency is you can use ZIP codes. 

Wendy Beck 19:14
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 19:15
To target things. 

Wendy Beck 19:16
So people like 

Michelle Hayes 19:16
That was awesome. 

Wendy Beck 19:17
have their zip codes or it's tracked by zip codes and then it throws it out into. 

Michelle Hayes 19:22
Your IP address is linked to your zip code for your computer, and so it'll funnel it that way. 

Wendy Beck 19:27
Okay. We're getting a crash course right now. Awesome. 

Michelle Hayes 19:31
I think. Yeah. I don't believe it. Not the birth post, but the actual ad. Yeah, that's one of them. 

Wendy Beck 19:35
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 19:36
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 19:37
Do you do you recommend ads? Because like, I don't do any ads at all. I. 

Michelle Hayes 19:42
I think some are great. I also think I mean, it depends on your audience. 

Wendy Beck 19:47
And what you're trying to accomplish. 

Michelle Hayes 19:48
What you're trying to accomplish. But I really, really think the main component there is interactive content and consistency. You don't have to post Monday, Wednesday, Friday, every single week. Or I mean, if you were going to the farm fair this weekend, which I know is something we have. 

Wendy Beck 20:04
Mm hmm. 

Michelle Hayes 20:05
Take a selfie at the farm fair with, like, a cow chewing on your shoulder. Post that. Wow. Rage against Addiction Went to the Farm Bureau this weekend. 

Wendy Beck 20:15
Gotcha. 

Michelle Hayes 20:15
It's funny. People will interact. 

Wendy Beck 20:17
I always say. And here we. Okay, here. Here we go. 

Michelle Hayes 20:20
Right. 

Wendy Beck 20:20
I. Well, I want to. I 

Michelle Hayes 20:23
We'll 

Wendy Beck 20:23
want to say this. 

Michelle Hayes 20:23
look at it. 

Wendy Beck 20:24
Okay. I always say people don't want to see me. 

Michelle Hayes 20:30
People. 

Wendy Beck 20:30
Really? 

Michelle Hayes 20:31
People want to know that the business has a base. 

Rich Bennett 20:35
Behind the business. 

Michelle Hayes 20:37
People. So you are your own brand. People want to know that this business is not just a name. They want to know why did it happen? That's why our story is on our Web page. And that's why one of the first things the first thing I offer with new business clients is let's have a coffee and a conversation. Let me buy you coffee because I tell them how I started and they tell me how they started. Because that is your that's your main thing. How how did this happen? Because that's an emotional. 

Wendy Beck 21:11
Connection. 

Michelle Hayes 21:11
Connection there. And that connection is what people want. 

Wendy Beck 21:15
Okay, well, here's another thing. So now we're ten years removed from that initial set up and an activity and stuff. Like. 

I don't know. Do. Like I 

Michelle Hayes 21:26
I. 

Wendy Beck 21:26
always say, people don't want to see me. They do. 

Michelle Hayes 21:28
They do. 

Wendy Beck 21:30
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 21:31
Can you living? 

Wendy Beck 21:32
All right. I 

Michelle Hayes 21:33
I 

Wendy Beck 21:33
didn't. 

Michelle Hayes 21:33
didn't put my name. 

Wendy Beck 21:34
Get a makeover or something. 

Michelle Hayes 21:37
When I. 

Rich Bennett 21:37
I started 

Wendy Beck 21:37
Started. 

Rich Bennett 21:38
doing 

Michelle Hayes 21:38
Do. 

Rich Bennett 21:38
it and I got think. 

Michelle Hayes 21:40
Christie for that because. She said, You you are your brain. You got to market yourself as well. And I started 

Rich Bennett 21:49
Know doing 

Michelle Hayes 21:49
doing 

Rich Bennett 21:50
that 

Michelle Hayes 21:50
that. 

Rich Bennett 21:50
and my 

Michelle Hayes 21:50
And 

Rich Bennett 21:50
name 

Michelle Hayes 21:50
even 

Rich Bennett 21:51
and 

Michelle Hayes 21:51
now. 

Rich Bennett 21:51
now people contact can't sometimes. 

Michelle Hayes 21:53
But, you know, sometimes, you know. 

Wendy Beck 21:56
But. Right. 

Michelle Hayes 21:57
It makes a big difference if 

Wendy Beck 21:59
If 

Michelle Hayes 21:59
I 

Wendy Beck 21:59
I 

Michelle Hayes 21:59
wanted 

Wendy Beck 21:59
were to. 

Michelle Hayes 21:59
to. 

Wendy Beck 22:00
If I would. 

Michelle Hayes 22:00
The podcast conversation? Or was it the 

Rich Bennett 22:04
Heart. 

Michelle Hayes 22:04
Harvard Kennedy? It wouldn't be the way it is now. It's personal. Your business is very personal. Of course, not going to change your conversations with Rich Bennett and Wendy back. But you. 

Wendy Beck 22:19
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 22:21
And she goes, Yeah, yeah. 

Wendy Beck 22:23
No. 

Michelle Hayes 22:25
It makes a big difference when I am prime example, when when I record some people virtually and you're not co-hosting. People know your name. Mm hmm. 

Even through, I mean, throughout the world. 

Wendy Beck 22:39
Because. 

Michelle Hayes 22:39
Because you killed them, so. 

Wendy Beck 22:40
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 22:41
I mean, your name is getting out there, but a lot of them don't know that addiction. 

Wendy Beck 22:46
Right. Well, 

Michelle Hayes 22:47
Well, 

Wendy Beck 22:47
and 

Michelle Hayes 22:47
that's 

Wendy Beck 22:47
that's the 

Michelle Hayes 22:48
the 

Wendy Beck 22:48
other 

Michelle Hayes 22:48
other 

Wendy Beck 22:48
thing. 

Michelle Hayes 22:48
thing. 

Wendy Beck 22:48
Like, sometimes I. Amazed that, like even people in our county don't know about it, because I feel like, you know, we're putting stuff out on Facebook, We have this we attend that, we have events and stuff, and then like maybe you'll have a guest and like I'll say, you know, where what I've done and who what about the organization? And they, they oh, never heard never heard of you guys 

Michelle Hayes 23:11
So 

Wendy Beck 23:11
and. 

Michelle Hayes 23:12
you question. 

Wendy Beck 23:13
That's crazy. 

Michelle Hayes 23:14
Let me ask you a couple questions. 

Wendy Beck 23:16
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 23:17
If I showed you a picture of Kevin Plank. 

Wendy Beck 23:19
Kevin Plank. Kevin. 

Michelle Hayes 23:20
What would you say? 

Rich Bennett 23:22
First. 

Wendy Beck 23:22
I don't know who that is. Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 23:24
He's with Under Armour. He started it. 

Wendy Beck 23:25
Oh, okay. Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 23:27
See that. Hold on. See that? 

Wendy Beck 23:29
Name 

Michelle Hayes 23:29
When she said, 

Wendy Beck 23:30
the business. 

Michelle Hayes 23:30
you know it, 

Wendy Beck 23:31
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 23:32
if I showed you a picture of you on mask. Right away, I. 

Rich Bennett 23:35
Know who that 

Wendy Beck 23:35
That is, 

Rich Bennett 23:35
is. 

Wendy Beck 23:35
I don't even know if I would know who he. I know who he is, but I don't know if I would record. 

Michelle Hayes 23:40
What do you think? The moment. What brand? 

Rich Bennett 23:42
Tesla. 

Michelle Hayes 23:42
Tesla. Thank you. Mine's parked outside Tesla. 

Rich Bennett 23:44
Tesla and X. I mean it. 

Michelle Hayes 23:45
There you go. 

Wendy Beck 23:46
I mean. Well, I know that, but I'm like. 

Michelle Hayes 23:48
Okay. But like, that connection is there because you know his face, you know, his brand, because he has done a very, very good job. Well, his team has done a very good job. 

Wendy Beck 23:59
Of making sure that you know. 

Michelle Hayes 24:00
Of making sure it's personal. His name is synonymous with his brand. 

Wendy Beck 24:04
Gotcha. 

Michelle Hayes 24:05
Same thing with another one. I mean, I mean, that man, his wife is Gore. 

Rich Bennett 24:11
You know. 

Wendy Beck 24:11
Yeah. The actor. Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 24:13
Yes. 

Wendy Beck 24:13
Yeah. But 

Rich Bennett 24:14
But he. 

Wendy Beck 24:14
you. 

Michelle Hayes 24:15
After 

Rich Bennett 24:15
For. 

Wendy Beck 24:15
Got. 

Michelle Hayes 24:15
Deadpool. The phone company. 

Wendy Beck 24:19
Yeah. I 

Michelle Hayes 24:20
Yes, 

Wendy Beck 24:20
don't 

Michelle Hayes 24:20
yes, 

Wendy Beck 24:20
know what 

Michelle Hayes 24:20
yes, 

Wendy Beck 24:20
is. 

Michelle Hayes 24:20
yes. The phone company. I forgot how much I. 

Rich Bennett 24:25
A commercial. Ryan Reynolds. 

Michelle Hayes 24:26
Yup. Yup. 

Rich Bennett 24:28
Shaq 

Michelle Hayes 24:29
Jack, 

Rich Bennett 24:29
is a. 

Michelle Hayes 24:30
when you see Shaq 

Rich Bennett 24:31
Shaq, Shaquille O'Neal, two 

Michelle Hayes 24:33
do 

Rich Bennett 24:34
businesses 

Michelle Hayes 24:34
business. 

Rich Bennett 24:34
come to mind. For me, at least the General would. 

Michelle Hayes 24:37
Mm hmm. Yep. 

Rich Bennett 24:39
And 

Michelle Hayes 24:39
And 

Rich Bennett 24:39
Papa 

Michelle Hayes 24:39
Papa 

Rich Bennett 24:40
John's. 

Michelle Hayes 24:40
John's. 

Wendy Beck 24:41
I don't do a whole lot of TV watching with commercials, so that might be part of my, you know, 

Michelle Hayes 24:46
Right. 

Wendy Beck 24:47
problem. 

Michelle Hayes 24:47
But 

Wendy Beck 24:47
But. 

Michelle Hayes 24:48
some of them, like even if I showed you colors of McDonald's, you would make that association 

Wendy Beck 24:53
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 24:53
if I showed you Ronald McDonald. 

Wendy Beck 24:55
I would know. 

Michelle Hayes 24:56
You would know who that is. If I showed you the chick, Billy Carol, you would know who that is. There are so many associations we make with those personal things. Obviously, they're not owners, but they're symbols of that, which as a small business owner, I am a symbol of clever cat as much as my cat is. 

Wendy Beck 25:13
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 25:14
So it's not your brand and you are not as separated as people would like to think. You can keep them pretty separated, but they're not as separate as people would like to think. And there is a very fine line trying to merge them because if people start seeing you out at events, take pictures at these events, post your face, see how much fun you had. But think about I was I was reading an email and I got an email from some purchase I made. I don't even remember the purchase, but I remember the email that I got for a follow up and it said, Thanks for joining the call. 

Wendy Beck 25:53
And that stuck with. 

Michelle Hayes 25:54
And I was like, Hold on. What's. First 

Wendy Beck 25:58
Or. 

Michelle Hayes 25:58
of all, what documentary in my watching. 

Wendy Beck 26:00
Right. Right. 

Michelle Hayes 26:01
What am I doing? That email I'm still talking about. So I'm 

Wendy Beck 26:06
Indifferent. 

Michelle Hayes 26:06
exactly you want it to stick in people's heads. So if you go to the barber and there's a cow chewing on your shoulder, I'm sitting here. I would show Rich. I'd be like, Oh, my God, look. And he would laugh and he would probably take it. Can you send me that? That's funny. Send it to four different people. Your name, your face, and the fact that you're relatable. You're a person. You have a story. 

Wendy Beck 26:30
Okay, So you connect the the brand with the person. Not always, but that is a good marketing strategy. 

Michelle Hayes 26:37
For a small business. Absolutely. 

Wendy Beck 26:39
Why? 

Rich Bennett 26:39
Because there are some 

Wendy Beck 26:40
Some guys. 

Rich Bennett 26:40
good. 

Michelle Hayes 26:41
You got to. 

Rich Bennett 26:41
Follow two. 

Michelle Hayes 26:41
There are. 

Wendy Beck 26:42
What do you mean by that? 

So 

Rich Bennett 26:46
So be 

Wendy Beck 26:47
be 

Rich Bennett 26:47
careful. 

Wendy Beck 26:47
careful. You didn't really. 

Michelle Hayes 26:48
We don't want to. 

Rich Bennett 26:49
Puccini. 

Michelle Hayes 26:50
Sexist? No. 

Wendy Beck 26:52
Well, obviously. Right. Political. Right. 

Michelle Hayes 26:55
Sometimes even religious. 

Wendy Beck 26:57
Right? Yeah, well, I don't. I don't do that kind of stuff anyway, so I would not carry that into my business. I mean, I might get a little political sometimes because, you know, not, not into any type of expertise, but like, opinions of the way things are are, you know, either going for the recovery community or against the recovery community. I would speak out about stuff like 

Michelle Hayes 27:21
And 

Wendy Beck 27:21
that. 

Michelle Hayes 27:21
if. 

Wendy Beck 27:21
I don't know 

Michelle Hayes 27:22
It's 

Wendy Beck 27:22
if 

Michelle Hayes 27:22
more factual. You're not right. That's factual. You're. 

Wendy Beck 27:25
I'm not name dropping or trying to bash anybody or anything like that. Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 27:29
Well, that's not even political. That's how you're being impacted by the environment you're in. 

Wendy Beck 27:35
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 27:35
So, I mean, if you're like if you're saying negative things about anyone in office, that could be seen as political. 

Wendy Beck 27:44
Kind of. I just kind of did an interview with a reporter about the. Opioid Restitution fund grant process. So I hope that that wasn't a negative thing 

Michelle Hayes 27:55
I think 

Wendy Beck 27:55
that 

Michelle Hayes 27:55
that's 

Wendy Beck 27:55
I. 

Michelle Hayes 27:55
fine because. 

Wendy Beck 27:57
Whoops. 

Michelle Hayes 27:58
You're it's awareness. And I think anything that falls under that that blanket of awareness, that umbrella of awareness, I think because of your company and your nonprofit, I. 

Because it falls under that blanket, that awareness cancels anything and everything out because you just want the public to be aware. 

Wendy Beck 28:17
Right. And I get that. Like, I try not to be too like, you know. And I also here's another here's another question. And this is this is kind of 

Michelle Hayes 28:26
I 

Wendy Beck 28:26
not 

Michelle Hayes 28:26
love questioning. 

Wendy Beck 28:26
not anything to do, like really with rage. But I would 

Michelle Hayes 28:29
questioning. 

Wendy Beck 28:29
kind of say and I'm going to try to say this correctly with small businesses. 

Michelle Hayes 28:34
Mm hmm. 

Wendy Beck 28:35
The community within which they're serving. And you're trying to promote, you're trying to do, you know, grow it and then you feel like 

Michelle Hayes 28:45
Like. 

Wendy Beck 28:45
and this could just be my opinion, but I know it's out there where you have haters. 

Michelle Hayes 28:51
You always will. 

Wendy Beck 28:51
You're going to have these haters and you're like, You know, I'm doing all this. I'm really proud of it. I'm really happy. We're, you know, we're helping 20 women at a time, you know, revolving door with this, you know, recovery house and stuff like that. And then you think about all these people that have been your followers and no ones like liking or supporting or clicking and your thing. 

Michelle Hayes 29:12
Thinking. 

Wendy Beck 29:13
This. These were my peeps. Do you know what I mean? What? What's up 

Michelle Hayes 29:17
So. 

Wendy Beck 29:17
with. Like, I know that this probably has nothing to do with marketing, but I feel. 

Michelle Hayes 29:21
But it it does. It really does. That's where you fall back on that that why think about the time when you were sitting there or laying there or standing there when you had that first idea. 

Wendy Beck 29:34
Mm. 

Michelle Hayes 29:34
Go back. If you have your origin story on your web page, which I do, because I find it really helpful for myself to go back because I wrote it on the Web page and read it. I have a. 

Wendy Beck 29:46
I think mine is. 

Michelle Hayes 29:48
I think so, too. 

Wendy Beck 29:48
I think you. 

Michelle Hayes 29:49
I've. I've read your whole website, so I couldn't remember. 

Wendy Beck 29:52
Mm hmm. 

Michelle Hayes 29:54
I 

Wendy Beck 29:54
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 29:54
couldn't 

Wendy Beck 29:54
No. 

Michelle Hayes 29:54
remember which pages. 

Wendy Beck 29:55
About us. And, you know, it tells about each one of us and we 

Michelle Hayes 29:58
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 29:58
all have, you know. Action through loving 

Michelle Hayes 30:02
Right. 

Wendy Beck 30:02
someone or being in recovery or that kind of things. 

Michelle Hayes 30:04
So I also have I don't know if you wrote one, but I have the version that I didn't cut down for length because that thing was massive. 

Wendy Beck 30:14
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 30:14
Um, because mine has a lot of emotion and mine actually has a lot of anger and rage and a lot of. 

Wendy Beck 30:23
I get that. 

Michelle Hayes 30:24
Meditation on 

my stepdad. He died 12 years ago. And thinking back on what he would have said to me and in that anger. 

And it was really. 

Every time because I've had people questioning me even in the 

Wendy Beck 30:45
Out. 

Michelle Hayes 30:46
few months. 

Wendy Beck 30:46
And just like your. 

Michelle Hayes 30:47
Why? 

Wendy Beck 30:47
Why are you doing what you're doing? 

Michelle Hayes 30:49
Why or you can't do that. 

Wendy Beck 30:52
Mm hmm. 

Michelle Hayes 30:53
Or Oh yeah, somebody did that and it didn't work for them. They're not me. 

Wendy Beck 30:59
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 31:00
And if you can go back to that moment where you decided to submit the paperwork to the state. That's a whole nother headache. The 

Wendy Beck 31:10
Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 31:10
people need help with. Like it's. It's. Oh. 

Wendy Beck 31:14
Well, I just noticed that, you know, for me, I try to keep my head down. And then y you say when you say, oh, you know, sure. 

Michelle Hayes 31:22
Show yourself. 

Wendy Beck 31:22
The farm fair, and I did it. I'm like, I don't. I always say this. People don't want to see me. 

Michelle Hayes 31:28
They do. 

Wendy Beck 31:29
You're not the first person that said that to me, but I'm just still not convinced, You know what I mean? Like. 

Michelle Hayes 31:35
I 

Wendy Beck 31:35
I get 

Michelle Hayes 31:35
get. 

Wendy Beck 31:36
it. But me sitting at my desk trying to record myself or at the farm fair, like to me does. 

Michelle Hayes 31:42
Does it feel like? 

Wendy Beck 31:44
Professional. Way to 

Michelle Hayes 31:46
You 

Wendy Beck 31:46
get 

Michelle Hayes 31:46
really 

Wendy Beck 31:47
our 

Michelle Hayes 31:47
are 

Wendy Beck 31:47
Brit 

Michelle Hayes 31:47
bright 

Wendy Beck 31:47
our. 

Michelle Hayes 31:48
blue and turn away. 

Wendy Beck 31:49
I don't. I don't. I don't know. I don't know. I don't feel like I am. So I feel like I'm like, stumbling. 

Michelle Hayes 31:56
You kind of feel like that. So don't be at your desk. Please. 

Wendy Beck 32:00
I think her and I are going to have to have a conversation after we. 

Michelle Hayes 32:02
Yes. Yes. I will make sure you have my card and we can chat. 

Wendy Beck 32:07
Yes. 

Michelle Hayes 32:08
Please don't record at your desk. 

Wendy Beck 32:10
Well, I'm not. I'm actually not. 

Michelle Hayes 32:12
It's hard to look like super like robotic and boring, like you're just talking at them and you're not giving a webinar that will negatively impact you, I promise. 

Wendy Beck 32:23
Well, I don't really do that anymore. 

Michelle Hayes 32:24
Like a Q&A session that you've like advertised, like through post and things like that. That's different. 

Rich Bennett 32:30
Okay. 

Wendy Beck 32:30
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 32:31
But please don't just sit there and take a picture of yourself with your webcam at your desk, because that's not going to do. 

Wendy Beck 32:36
Now, what about, like the level of expertise with that kind of stuff? What do you tell your clients? I mean, can they just use their phone? Do they need like, you know, when when you try to jump into like doing reels and all these things, like, ah, just even when the words are coming across as people are talking like I have, I don't have the time to figure that out. 

Michelle Hayes 32:56
That's my job. 

Wendy Beck 32:57
Okay. You're hired. 

Michelle Hayes 33:00
That's mine. And Mitchell's job. I also have. 

Wendy Beck 33:02
But do other people is that what they're doing or they have 

Michelle Hayes 33:04
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 33:05
medium or. 

Michelle Hayes 33:06
So. 

Wendy Beck 33:07
All of that. 

Michelle Hayes 33:08
It takes a lot of time and it takes a lot of honestly Googling. 

Wendy Beck 33:15
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 33:16
I love YouTube videos. I'm currently actually teaching my mom how to really look at posts and things like that. She really wants to learn marketing, 

Wendy Beck 33:27
Mm. 

Michelle Hayes 33:28
and so we're starting with Facebook posts. 

Wendy Beck 33:30
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 33:30
I sent her one this morning and was like, Well, what's wrong with this? And so we picked it apart. I can show you that afterwards. I won't name I won't name names or. But no, it was not it was not either of yours and it was not mine, thank goodness. But it's I mean, it's just it's a lie. It. It's just a. 

Wendy Beck 33:53
It is a lot. 

Michelle Hayes 33:53
It takes so much work. That's why it's its own job, because it is its own job. 

Wendy Beck 33:59
Well, And that's where, like I said, you know, we're ten years old. This. 

Michelle Hayes 34:02
This year. 

Wendy Beck 34:03
And we built, you know, the organization to this. City where we have our program. We have other small programs. We have our social media pages, you know, and I feel like we've gotten to a point where we're we've plateaued. 

Michelle Hayes 34:22
Gotcha. 

Wendy Beck 34:22
In in the in the social media realm. And, you know, of course, I have someone that helps with the website, you know, from time to time, like we mentioned earlier. And, you know, that's all great because in the beginning I was like, so overwhelmed, 

Michelle Hayes 34:35
Oh, 

Wendy Beck 34:35
like, 

Michelle Hayes 34:35
yeah. 

Wendy Beck 34:36
I, I don't have. Learn how to build a website in another 

Rich Bennett 34:39
Their 

Wendy Beck 34:39
job. 

Rich Bennett 34:39
job. 

Wendy Beck 34:40
Yeah. I don't have time to learn how to do a website. So at one point 

Michelle Hayes 34:43
The point 

Wendy Beck 34:43
I 

Michelle Hayes 34:43
I. 

Wendy Beck 34:43
had someone helping me and then they dropped off because in the non-profit world you have in the very beginning, specifically you like, you pull in all these volunteers, you know, like, Oh, my neighbor works and makes makes logos. Am I this person does this and this person. And that's all great at first. And then you A they were not professionals. So now you're cleaning up the mess that they made and you're still trying to do your job. And then the other thing is, is like they drop off because they all you know what? They had a brother who passed away. But guess what? Now they're healing and they're moving forward and they're now going to soccer games with their kids and they don't have time to to live in the world that brought them to me. And I want them go, go. He'll go live your life. You know what I mean? But it's kind of like with the nonprofit world, that's how you're you have these revolve. 

Michelle Hayes 35:37
Holding. 

Wendy Beck 35:38
Peppers. And they're just that they're helpers. So you get to a level where you need that professional to step in. And if you want to get to the next level and capacity building and just, you know, leveling up, like I've been saying for like six months now, we need to figure out how to level up. And what does that mean to me? I don't know. Getting people to come to our events more, get more likes on our social media, get that Google search at the mid funnel level. 

Michelle Hayes 36:08
So. 

Wendy Beck 36:08
Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 36:08
Yeah, 

Wendy Beck 36:09
I 

Michelle Hayes 36:09
I feel. 

Wendy Beck 36:09
feel like, you know, you get to a point where you're going to either survive or you're not. 

Michelle Hayes 36:13
Yeah. And actually, I volunteer with Amy Baltimore, which is American Marketing Association Baltimore. 

Wendy Beck 36:20
Mhm. 

Michelle Hayes 36:21
And we just we socialize and it's a bunch of marketers and we just kind of chat and we even ourselves have people come in and teach us new things and talk 

Wendy Beck 36:33
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 36:33
about new things. Because even if you've been in the business ten years, 

Wendy Beck 36:36
Yeah. You. 

Michelle Hayes 36:36
ten years ago. 

Wendy Beck 36:37
Can't be everything. 

Michelle Hayes 36:38
Ten years ago, it was so different. 

Wendy Beck 36:40
Yeah. You'd put an ad in the 

Michelle Hayes 36:41
And 

Wendy Beck 36:41
new. 

Michelle Hayes 36:41
it's. 

Wendy Beck 36:42
But back in the you know, back in the day, if you wanted to have a sale on something, now you're just like, oh my gosh, what? What do I do? How do I get the the likes and get it to be seen? And and then it's just kind of frustrating because, you know. 

Michelle Hayes 36:55
I don't watch a lot. 

Wendy Beck 36:56
A lot of like cooking videos. 

Michelle Hayes 36:57
Right? Stuff like that. 

Wendy Beck 36:59
Like, 

Michelle Hayes 36:59
I. 

Wendy Beck 36:59
how does this person know how to do this? You know what I mean? 

Michelle Hayes 37:02
Because that cooking video took them like a little bit of time and, you know, ten, 15 hours that it didn't take them to make the video. They spent on how to deal with the marketing mess behind. 

Wendy Beck 37:14
Yes. Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 37:15
It's insane. 

Wendy Beck 37:16
Yeah, it's a lot. 

Michelle Hayes 37:17
I was telling my son about. 

Rich Bennett 37:19
Because he. 

Michelle Hayes 37:20
With is Tik Tok video. 

Rich Bennett 37:23
Making money off of that? No, but he was telling me how much time he put. I 

Michelle Hayes 37:27
I 

Rich Bennett 37:27
don't 

Michelle Hayes 37:27
don't 

Rich Bennett 37:27
even 

Michelle Hayes 37:27
even 

Rich Bennett 37:28
know how he does. It was 

Michelle Hayes 37:28
work 

Rich Bennett 37:28
working 

Michelle Hayes 37:29
in there. 

Rich Bennett 37:29
everything. 

Michelle Hayes 37:30
Like our. 

Rich Bennett 37:30
Hours in. 

Michelle Hayes 37:32
Oh, yeah. 

Wendy Beck 37:32
Just working on one thing, one video. 

Michelle Hayes 37:34
Video. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 37:35
I'm. 

Wendy Beck 37:35
I mean, there's all. 

Michelle Hayes 37:36
The one 

Rich Bennett 37:37
Which are pretty 

Michelle Hayes 37:37
thing 

Rich Bennett 37:37
quick, but it's just. 

Michelle Hayes 37:39
just. 

So we search social media. 

Rich Bennett 37:46
I 

Michelle Hayes 37:46
We. 

Rich Bennett 37:46
mean. 

Michelle Hayes 37:48
Whatever you want to call it. 

Rich Bennett 37:49
It was 

Michelle Hayes 37:49
There's 

Rich Bennett 37:49
a. 

Michelle Hayes 37:49
only so many characters. But now that's changed. 

Rich Bennett 37:52
I think to 250 or to 60. 

Michelle Hayes 37:54
60. I. I don't know. Okay. Currently, Clover Cat does not have a Twitter that's coming. 

Mitchell is the Twitter X person. Instagram and 

Rich Bennett 38:09
Facebook. 

Michelle Hayes 38:09
Facebook. 

Wendy Beck 38:09
Facebook. 

Michelle Hayes 38:09
I do Instagram and Facebook. I have both personally. And we also have one for Clever Cat. I guess it 

Wendy Beck 38:15
It 

Michelle Hayes 38:15
all 

Wendy Beck 38:15
all depends 

Michelle Hayes 38:15
depends 

Wendy Beck 38:15
on. 

Michelle Hayes 38:15
on the business you're representing, 

Rich Bennett 38:17
In 

Michelle Hayes 38:17
too. 

Rich Bennett 38:17
two. 

Michelle Hayes 38:17
It does. It does. For me, Facebook and Instagram are both under the meta umbrella, so you can kind of manage them both from one dashboard, which is a lot simpler. 

Wendy Beck 38:27
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 38:28
It's a lot easier. And so for me, that's nice. I like that. 

Wendy Beck 38:33
Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 38:34
He actually helps with that as well. And he likes that he can schedule things and do everything for both. 

Rich Bennett 38:39
Part. 

Michelle Hayes 38:41
I just never I never really got onboard with Twitter. It just never was a thing for me personally way back when it started. 

Wendy Beck 38:49
I think I might have, like, even signed up, but I was just like, I don't even know what what this is. 

Michelle Hayes 38:54
I signed up for a convention. 

Wendy Beck 38:56
Is rage on there. It was. I don't think what it shows is. 

Rich Bennett 39:00
It. 

Michelle Hayes 39:01
Have it. 

Wendy Beck 39:02
It says rage, 

Rich Bennett 39:03
But. 

Wendy Beck 39:03
but it's like Wendy 

Michelle Hayes 39:04
When. 

Wendy Beck 39:04
Mesmer. Oh, okay. Yeah, I got it. I got to bring that down and redo it. So, like, that's that was like, what I'm saying. Like, you know, when you first do a lot of start up stuff, you're like, trying to. 

Michelle Hayes 39:13
Touch all the. 

Wendy Beck 39:15
You know, the points that would, you know, Twitter or like we don't have a YouTube. I'd love to have a YouTube, but what do I put on YouTube? I don't know. Me at the farm fair, like, I don't know. You know what I mean? 

Michelle Hayes 39:24
No, that's not farm fare. 

Wendy Beck 39:26
I 

Michelle Hayes 39:26
You 

Wendy Beck 39:26
under 

Michelle Hayes 39:26
could you could put like, like the episode you cohosted you could have interviews with someone who's gone through your program 

Wendy Beck 39:36
right. 

Michelle Hayes 39:37
with some of your staff who, you know, really have benefited and love your program that you guys do? Yeah. And even like any event, 

Wendy Beck 39:48
Right? Yes. And it takes like it takes a whole person, you know, that 

Michelle Hayes 39:52
it 

Wendy Beck 39:52
knows 

Michelle Hayes 39:53
does. 

Wendy Beck 39:53
what they're doing to do that kind of stuff. Yeah. So this is. 

Michelle Hayes 39:56
I mean. 

Wendy Beck 39:57
The occasional podcast in a lot of ways because, you know, I think that there's going to be tons of businesses that are listening and they don't know these things, or they become overwhelmed. 

Michelle Hayes 40:07
I mean, that's the other thing. I mean, I really I really started the company because I went into a meeting at the former agency. I was at and I was told, we're going into this meeting, but I don't think we're you know, it's really worth our time because they can't afford us. 

Wendy Beck 40:28
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 40:29
This is a marketing agency going into a meeting with a small business. And that's what I was told as a I was an account manager or an account coordinator, if you will. They're kind of interchangeable where I was. And they were a small business. Multiple operations. They had actually done really, really well. They just needed a little bit of help. 

And that made my heart drop. That made me so sad, both professionally and personally, that I it wasn't the first time I'd heard it, but for some reason, that time really got to me. 

Wendy Beck 41:04
Mm hmm. 

Michelle Hayes 41:05
And I kind of just went. What am I doing? 

Rich Bennett 41:12
To help everybody, no matter the size of the business. 

Wendy Beck 41:15
Well, and that has happened to us, you know, where I'm like, oh, gosh, you know, And I've contacted a couple like, you know, social media places locally, or if you put in a if you Google anything, then you're going to start getting emails and. 

Michelle Hayes 41:26
Oh, my gosh. 

Wendy Beck 41:26
Stuff, you know, And I actually did that like earlier in the week. And I'm just like, that just becomes so overwhelming. And 

Michelle Hayes 41:33
Exactly. 

Wendy Beck 41:33
they're like, hey, Wendy, you know, da da da da. You need that. And you're just like, I don't I don't know. And I scroll down and I like, look and see if they have like an address. And I'm like, this person's in like, you know, Minnesota. 

Michelle Hayes 41:43
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 41:44
And I'm like, you know, I don't that's not going to make me feel 

Michelle Hayes 41:46
Feel comfortable 

Wendy Beck 41:46
comfortable, 

Michelle Hayes 41:47
now. 

Wendy Beck 41:48
you know, 

Michelle Hayes 41:48
Do. 

Wendy Beck 41:48
did. Partner. 

Michelle Hayes 41:50
With a. 

Wendy Beck 41:51
A platform for donations. And I just felt like, you know, that didn't live up. 

Michelle Hayes 41:57
Up to. 

Wendy Beck 41:57
Expectations. And it's just. 

Michelle Hayes 41:59
Kind of like it's just. 

Wendy Beck 41:59
Just a whole trial and error. But it's nicer when you have someone that you can sit here and even if you're still, you know, just sitting in the same office, but you work remotely and you can have that coffee and connection at some point at the beginning, you feel a little more confident than. 

Michelle Hayes 42:14
Exactly. 

Wendy Beck 42:15
This sea of Internet person that you will never meet. 

Michelle Hayes 42:19
And it comes back to the emotional connection and that that people connection, that thing we didn't have when we were in the middle of the pandemic, we didn't have that personal connection. We couldn't go and have coffee with someone because it was dangerous and we had the virtual. 

Rich Bennett 42:34
Two coffees. 

Michelle Hayes 42:36
Which. 

Wendy Beck 42:37
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 42:38
As someone who works from my house. It works for me right now because I do have a son. I mean, he's pretty self-sufficient, but it's nice to be able to be home and take him to doctors appointments, dentist appointment, things like that. 

But I love being able to go have coffee with a potential client. I love being able to come out and do things like this because that personal connection to be able to look at your face and to know that like that's not lighting on your computer. I love your face. Love your face. The beard covers. 

Rich Bennett 43:12
I can't 

Wendy Beck 43:13
Can't 

Rich Bennett 43:13
see. 

Wendy Beck 43:13
see it. 

Michelle Hayes 43:17
But it's it's that human connection. And that's what we all. 

Wendy Beck 43:20
And we got away from it because of COVID and. You know, we really are scrambling to get back there. And and I feel like there's also this whole generation that has become like, very like, shy when it comes to anything in person. They're living through their phones. And, you know, that's I, I just think that that's going to come back and bite us in the ass later. Honestly. 

Michelle Hayes 43:41
Probably, yeah. Do you think I want your opinion 

Rich Bennett 43:44
Opinion 

Michelle Hayes 43:44
on. 

Rich Bennett 43:44
on this. What 

Michelle Hayes 43:46
When some businesses or nonprofits hire a company or somebody to take care of their Internet marketing, they I mean, you already told us yours. I believe it's on your website. Do you think businesses messed up by not 

Rich Bennett 44:01
if? 

Michelle Hayes 44:01
either going to their website and looking at their past experience or even asking for a resume? 

Rich Bennett 44:07
Because. 

Michelle Hayes 44:07
Because a lot of people nowadays. They think they're going to see social media and they'll say, I'm starting some sort of Internet marketing company, but really, and they don't have the resume to back it up. Like with your case, you did you have the experience from Under Armour or not? But do you think some businesses up by not looking at the experience that the company they're hiring has? I think more say the company, maybe the individual, I should say. So I think so in my opinion. But that's where a lot of people call them discovery calls, and that's where you have that one on one with someone from the company and you ask them, what have you done like this? Because you you can be the first one. I like being the first because you set the bar high. Yeah, but you have experience of something similar, right? Or you're open and honest about. Look, you're the first, you know, baby diaper company. I have ever worked with. You know, cloth diapers is, like, the most, like, out there. Just because I have friends with babies. And just the first thing I thought of. But I've never worked with the cloth diaper company locally. Never have. I know probably nothing about them, but I would be happy to represent them because I would learn about it. I would want to know how they're made. I want. I want to see how they're made. As their marketer, my job is to know as much as I can about that product so that I can market it for them the best way possible. 

Wendy Beck 45:46
Well, that's the only way to do it, because. 

Michelle Hayes 45:48
Right. 

Wendy Beck 45:48
Even, you know, with the non-profit world, everyone's always like, you know, you need to get a grant writer or you need to, you know, And I'm like, okay, yes, but that person 

Michelle Hayes 45:57
Person has to work intimately with me 

Wendy Beck 46:00
to 

Michelle Hayes 46:00
to 

Wendy Beck 46:00
know 

Michelle Hayes 46:00
know what we do 

Wendy Beck 46:01
before. 

Michelle Hayes 46:01
before they can do it independently. 

Wendy Beck 46:03
Italy, Do you know what I mean? 

Michelle Hayes 46:04
Yes. 

Wendy Beck 46:05
So it's the same thing. 

Michelle Hayes 46:06
Yep. 

Wendy Beck 46:07
That part, like one of the things and I've 

Michelle Hayes 46:09
Have 

Wendy Beck 46:09
had 

Michelle Hayes 46:09
people. 

Wendy Beck 46:09
people make content for us and. 

Michelle Hayes 46:12
And. 

Wendy Beck 46:13
Sometimes the voice is just not right. So you have to be able to fight. 

Michelle Hayes 46:17
Find someone who has your voice. Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 46:18
Or knows how to, you know, embellish or just expand your your voice and. And that's not easy. 

Michelle Hayes 46:25
No. 

Wendy Beck 46:25
That's not easy. 

Michelle Hayes 46:26
And that's where the local personal doctor comes in. 

Wendy Beck 46:28
Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 46:29
That I really want to represent local and I really want to stay local and or and or small. 

Wendy Beck 46:35
Mm 

Michelle Hayes 46:35
I mean, there are some medium sized businesses that I would love to work with, 

Wendy Beck 46:39
hmm. 

Michelle Hayes 46:41
but honestly, anyone that needs help locally. And before that, you know, Discovery call of you know, here's my business and this is what I need. That's why I offered to buy coffee, because I want to have that pre conversation. 

Wendy Beck 46:55
Mm hmm. 

Michelle Hayes 46:55
It was 

Wendy Beck 46:56
That's 

Michelle Hayes 46:56
described 

Wendy Beck 46:56
smart. 

Michelle Hayes 46:56
to me. Yeah. It was like. 

Wendy Beck 46:58
And for them. 

Michelle Hayes 46:59
It was described to me by one potential client as a super awkward blind. 

That's. It's pretty. 

Wendy Beck 47:07
And I've met people 

Michelle Hayes 47:08
Normal. 

Wendy Beck 47:08
in. You before were you're like, they they'll like. And this was more, you know, back in the day when first started and people were like, can you meet and talk to me about how to start a nonprofit or this or that and. 

Sure. But you know what I mean? Like, I'm just figuring this out on my own as well. So, you know, you're kind of just going into things blind, not really knowing, 

Michelle Hayes 47:28
Right. 

Wendy Beck 47:28
you know, 

Michelle Hayes 47:29
Right. 

Wendy Beck 47:29
you can't 

Michelle Hayes 47:29
And. 

Wendy Beck 47:30
promise you I'm going to be able to tell you how to do this. But I'll tell you what I know, 

Michelle Hayes 47:34
And in our most recent blog post, we talk about that. It was something that I really wanted to talk about in a blog post, and I was like, Can we put a Facebook page up? Because somebody asked me about this and 

Wendy Beck 47:44
right? 

Michelle Hayes 47:45
it's like a weird conversation, you know, Let's have coffee. Cool. What do you bring? Because that's I mean, that's the question you don't want to ask, right? You don't want to ask this person that you want to hire. What should they bring? How should they dress? So we addressed that in the blog post and basically wear whatever you want to wear. I buy you coffee and we have a discussion. 

Wendy Beck 48:04
Simple 

Michelle Hayes 48:04
Like, 

Wendy Beck 48:04
as that. Right? 

Michelle Hayes 48:05
right, It's. 

Wendy Beck 48:05
Come as you are. 

Michelle Hayes 48:06
Laid back. I want to. I want to hear about you. Like the interview 

Rich Bennett 48:11
Due 

Michelle Hayes 48:11
process. 

Rich Bennett 48:11
process. 

Michelle Hayes 48:11
Exactly. HAMMER If you're if you're going in for all the mechanics, just. 

Rich Bennett 48:16
Job. Are you going to go 

Michelle Hayes 48:17
We 

Rich Bennett 48:17
in 

Michelle Hayes 48:17
wear 

Rich Bennett 48:17
wearing 

Michelle Hayes 48:17
a 

Rich Bennett 48:17
a 

Michelle Hayes 48:17
suit? 

Rich Bennett 48:17
suit? 

Michelle Hayes 48:18
I'm not. You're not going to go? 

Rich Bennett 48:20
Greasy. 

Wendy Beck 48:20
Greasy clothes. 

Michelle Hayes 48:21
Close, but still, I don't think you would. 

Wendy Beck 48:22
You want to be yourself? Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 48:24
I'm not going to go in either way. I'm just going to be honest here. 

Wendy Beck 48:27
Right, right, right. 

Michelle Hayes 48:29
I mean, I'm usually and just everybody knows I'm usually in like I haven't sneakers today. I love my sneakers. I live in sneakers. I'm always running somewhere. Like, I mean, I have younger 

Wendy Beck 48:42
Well. 

Michelle Hayes 48:42
kids. 

Wendy Beck 48:42
And I think that the level of business attire, you know in the formal. You know, spectrum 

Michelle Hayes 48:49
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 48:49
is is more for and I'm not saying you're not a professional and I'm not saying that I'm not or you, but I'm saying you got your attorneys, your people in the courthouse. 

Michelle Hayes 48:57
Mm. 

Wendy Beck 48:57
You've got like executives that are in high rise buildings. Yeah. They're not going to wear what we're wearing right now, but. 

Michelle Hayes 49:04
In a small. 

Wendy Beck 49:04
Business sector or just the general public. You 

Michelle Hayes 49:07
You 

Wendy Beck 49:07
wear 

Michelle Hayes 49:07
wear 

Wendy Beck 49:08
what 

Michelle Hayes 49:08
what you're 

Wendy Beck 49:08
you're comfortable 

Michelle Hayes 49:08
comfortable with. 

Wendy Beck 49:08
with. 

Michelle Hayes 49:08
And I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I have those outfits. I mean, I have a blazer in the car. I keep it in the car. A pair 

Wendy Beck 49:14
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 49:14
of heels in the car because I make sure wherever I'm going I can throw in heels and a blazer and completely dress it up a little bit. I can't. 

Rich Bennett 49:20
You walk 

Wendy Beck 49:20
Walk in. 

Rich Bennett 49:20
in here, so I'm not even. 

Michelle Hayes 49:23
I might have some exercise at home, but it's. 

Wendy Beck 49:26
I can barely walk in heels like 

Michelle Hayes 49:28
was it? 

Wendy Beck 49:28
it has to be comfort for me on my feet. 

Michelle Hayes 49:30
Oh, yeah, I know, I. 

Wendy Beck 49:32
Like sandals and stuff, but like, not 

Michelle Hayes 49:34
I feel like I was probably 

Wendy Beck 49:35
the. 

Michelle Hayes 49:36
born in heels. I. 

Wendy Beck 49:37
Really? Yeah. That's not me. 

Michelle Hayes 49:39
I love heels. I had two knee surgeries and I still wear. I look out. 

Wendy Beck 49:46
She dresses for success. 

But she. 

Michelle Hayes 49:50
And that's changed. 

Wendy Beck 49:51
Yeah. Prime example 

Michelle Hayes 49:53
When 

Wendy Beck 49:53
when. 

Michelle Hayes 49:53
I was selling. 

Rich Bennett 49:54
Cause a 

Wendy Beck 49:55
A 

Rich Bennett 49:55
long 

Wendy Beck 49:55
long time 

Rich Bennett 49:56
time. 

Wendy Beck 49:56
ago, you would wear a suit, right? 

Michelle Hayes 49:58
Used to. Then I kept telling you, How can we get publishers? 

Rich Bennett 50:03
No, 

Michelle Hayes 50:03
No, 

Rich Bennett 50:03
no, 

Michelle Hayes 50:03
no, 

Rich Bennett 50:04
no. 

Michelle Hayes 50:04
that's 

Rich Bennett 50:04
It's not 

Michelle Hayes 50:04
not 

Rich Bennett 50:04
professional. 

Michelle Hayes 50:04
for. People are more comfortable talking to a salesperson wearing a polo shirt. 

Wendy Beck 50:10
Then as soon. 

Rich Bennett 50:11
The tie. 

Michelle Hayes 50:12
And when we. 

Wendy Beck 50:12
Finally Converse 

Michelle Hayes 50:13
Turn it over and you're wearing 

Wendy Beck 50:15
Polo 

Michelle Hayes 50:15
polo 

Wendy Beck 50:15
shirt. 

Michelle Hayes 50:15
shirts. You're getting more customers because your people are more comfortable. 

Wendy Beck 50:19
They're not intimidated. 

Michelle Hayes 50:21
Exactly. A suit can intimidate people. 

Wendy Beck 50:23
Well, And you want your attorney to show up wearing a suit? Yes. 

Michelle Hayes 50:27
Yes, please. 

Wendy Beck 50:28
Yeah, exactly. 

Michelle Hayes 50:29
An attorney wants to intimidate, 

Wendy Beck 50:31
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 50:31
right? Because they need to be in control. Dressing in comfy clothes that look put together. I mean, don't show up in a t shirt with tons of holes in it and in jeans with, you know, probably. 

Wendy Beck 50:42
Unless that's your unless you know you're working out. 

Michelle Hayes 50:46
You know, in 

Wendy Beck 50:47
A situation where you're a farmer 

Michelle Hayes 50:49
Berkeley. 

Wendy Beck 50:49
or something like that, you know? 

Michelle Hayes 50:51
There is an appropriate time. 

Wendy Beck 50:52
Yes. Yes. And I think that this kind of also translates into the whole social media. Like what? What is your image? 

Yeah. So I'm excited. We're going to have the talk later. It's a lot different than what 

Michelle Hayes 51:05
What 

Wendy Beck 51:06
you 

Michelle Hayes 51:06
you 

Rich Bennett 51:06
You 

Wendy Beck 51:06
see. 

Michelle Hayes 51:06
see 

Rich Bennett 51:06
see on 

Michelle Hayes 51:06
on. 

Rich Bennett 51:06
social Well. 

Wendy Beck 51:07
Well. 

Michelle Hayes 51:08
Careful, 

careful. 

Wendy Beck 51:12
What? What's happening? Okay, so what my brain is that has something to do with the high heels 

for. 

Michelle Hayes 51:20
I always had the 

Rich Bennett 51:21
College 

Michelle Hayes 51:21
college. 

Rich Bennett 51:21
collared shirt. 

Wendy Beck 51:22
Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yes. 

Rich Bennett 51:24
But, 

Michelle Hayes 51:25
But 

Rich Bennett 51:25
you 

Michelle Hayes 51:25
you 

Rich Bennett 51:25
know, 

Michelle Hayes 51:25
know, 

Rich Bennett 51:25
come 

Michelle Hayes 51:25
come 

Rich Bennett 51:26
to 

Michelle Hayes 51:26
to 

Rich Bennett 51:26
like. 

Michelle Hayes 51:26
like 

Rich Bennett 51:26
Like a 

Michelle Hayes 51:26
a 

Rich Bennett 51:26
recording. 

Michelle Hayes 51:26
recording 

Rich Bennett 51:27
No, 

Michelle Hayes 51:27
now. 

Rich Bennett 51:27
I wanted to dress her 

Wendy Beck 51:28
Right? 

Rich Bennett 51:29
because I know. 

Wendy Beck 51:29
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 51:29
Plus it's hot at. 

But. 

Michelle Hayes 51:33
But like yesterday, 

Rich Bennett 51:34
When 

Michelle Hayes 51:34
when 

Rich Bennett 51:34
I had a recording at the healthy part. 

Michelle Hayes 51:36
I'm not. 

Rich Bennett 51:37
To shorten the health. I mean, 

Wendy Beck 51:39
Right. 

Rich Bennett 51:40
been. 

Wendy Beck 51:40
Right. Well, that was always my. 

Michelle Hayes 51:42
My thing. 

Rich Bennett 51:42
It was jeans and the 

Michelle Hayes 51:44
The 

Rich Bennett 51:44
hard 

Michelle Hayes 51:44
Hartford. 

Rich Bennett 51:44
for candy living shirt. Sure. You know. 

Michelle Hayes 51:47
Just. 

Wendy Beck 51:48
Because that's more your brand where people will recognize you. If you were out cutting your grass, you're going to have your shorts on and, you know, whatever. 

Michelle Hayes 51:54
Right. 

Wendy Beck 51:55
Well, you know what I mean. Okay. Never mind 

Michelle Hayes 51:57
The planes show up in all kinds of stuff. I had one show up in like a spaghetti strap, super cute top and white shorts and flip flops. 

Wendy Beck 52:04
it if 

Michelle Hayes 52:04
Totally 

Wendy Beck 52:05
that. 

Michelle Hayes 52:05
cool. 

Wendy Beck 52:06
That person style grade. 

Michelle Hayes 52:08
Put together. 

Wendy Beck 52:09
Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 52:09
Totally cool. I. 

Wendy Beck 52:12
Well, we walk around with our personal brands anyway. 

Michelle Hayes 52:15
Exactly. 

Wendy Beck 52:16
So this is really just annoying. 

Michelle Hayes 52:18
A certain. 

Wendy Beck 52:18
Yeah, I mean, I just try. I just. I don't know. I might be a little bit more like business casual ish. You know, 

Rich Bennett 52:26
You 

Wendy Beck 52:26
you 

Rich Bennett 52:26
just 

Wendy Beck 52:26
just 

Michelle Hayes 52:26
Just 

Rich Bennett 52:26
got 

Wendy Beck 52:26
got 

Michelle Hayes 52:26
got 

Wendy Beck 52:26
to 

Michelle Hayes 52:26
to 

Rich Bennett 52:26
to 

Michelle Hayes 52:26
put 

Rich Bennett 52:26
put 

Wendy Beck 52:26
put 

Michelle Hayes 52:27
your 

Rich Bennett 52:27
your 

Wendy Beck 52:27
your finger. 

Michelle Hayes 52:27
face 

Rich Bennett 52:27
foot. 

Michelle Hayes 52:27
out there. But I think also. 

Wendy Beck 52:29
Farm Bear is telling 

Michelle Hayes 52:30
We knew that for a while. 

Wendy Beck 52:32
All right. Well, we're going to talk. 

Michelle Hayes 52:33
You're stuck on the farm. 

Wendy Beck 52:35
Yeah. Which I hope was about leaving. 

Michelle Hayes 52:38
Your job and I had. 

Rich Bennett 52:39
Funny feeling. It wasn't me that convinced you anyway. 

Wendy Beck 52:41
Well, you know what? I think that you did have a big part in that, honestly, because you were like, Just do it. What do you have to lose? 

Michelle Hayes 52:48
Profit is a business. 

Wendy Beck 52:49
I know. It's just like that whole, like, you know, jumping ship to do something independently is a. 

Michelle Hayes 52:54
Scary thing. 

Wendy Beck 52:55
And then even with what we're talking about now. 

Michelle Hayes 52:58
Now 

Wendy Beck 52:59
You 

Michelle Hayes 52:59
you 

Wendy Beck 52:59
have 

Michelle Hayes 52:59
have. 

Wendy Beck 53:00
a business has a lot of different hats. And, you know, it's like we don't necessarily we're not selling widgets where I can be like if I sell 5000 widgets today, then I'm making this much money. We're actually, you know, our goal is to save lives. So, you know, how do you how do you fund that? 

Michelle Hayes 53:16
Right. 

Wendy Beck 53:17
You know what I mean? So you need you need some expertise at times. 

Michelle Hayes 53:20
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 53:21
Question 

Michelle Hayes 53:21
Question for 

Rich Bennett 53:21
for you. 

Michelle Hayes 53:22
you. Yes, sir. All right, So. The Georgetown 

Rich Bennett 53:24
I cancel the 

Michelle Hayes 53:25
football. 

Rich Bennett 53:25
football program especially. 

Wendy Beck 53:28
This year. They. 

Michelle Hayes 53:29
They got 

Rich Bennett 53:29
Torn 

Michelle Hayes 53:30
on. 

Rich Bennett 53:30
of registration for football and children. 

Michelle Hayes 53:33
And what they did is the little yard signs you 

Rich Bennett 53:36
see 

Michelle Hayes 53:36
see 

Rich Bennett 53:36
out 

Michelle Hayes 53:36
out. Mm hmm. They made the yard signs and they put it to 

Rich Bennett 53:40
when you 

Michelle Hayes 53:40
you, see, 

Rich Bennett 53:40
see him 

Michelle Hayes 53:40
when 

Rich Bennett 53:40
in 

Michelle Hayes 53:40
you 

Rich Bennett 53:40
the park. 

Michelle Hayes 53:41
park. Okay. What's your take? I'm sure, cuz I know, like, on that it works for. 

Rich Bennett 53:45
Great. But. 

Michelle Hayes 53:47
Even online. 

A QR code online 

is 

odd. 

Wendy Beck 54:00
Okay. 

Why? 

Michelle Hayes 54:03
Because if someone's looking at a social media. 

Rich Bennett 54:07
The website. 

Michelle Hayes 54:08
On social media. Okay. But you have to think about what you could do. 

Wendy Beck 54:13
Takes you to a place, you guys. 

Rich Bennett 54:15
Scan it. 

Michelle Hayes 54:16
But you have to scan it with your phone. 

Wendy Beck 54:18
No, you can actually reverse your camera. 

Michelle Hayes 54:20
Huh? 

Wendy Beck 54:21
Yeah, I was told you can you can reverse your camera and you can and you can scan it from your phone. On your phone. 

Michelle Hayes 54:29
Like take a screenshot of it. 

Wendy Beck 54:32
I was told you can reverse your camera. 

Rich Bennett 54:35
I don't see how that would do it. 

Wendy Beck 54:36
All right. Well, the. 

Michelle Hayes 54:37
I don't see how that would. 

Wendy Beck 54:38
Told. But, you 

Michelle Hayes 54:40
But I 

Wendy Beck 54:40
know. 

Michelle Hayes 54:40
have to look into it. I mean. 

Wendy Beck 54:42
Because the guy we've got now. 

Michelle Hayes 54:44
But I've also used QR. My my thing is. So think about it. Most people use the Internet on a phone or tablet. 

Rich Bennett 54:55
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 54:55
What do you scan a QR code on? 

Wendy Beck 54:57
Your phone or your tablet. 

Michelle Hayes 54:58
Or your tablet. So who's going to hit that QR code? Only someone who's looking at the Internet on a computer. 

So it's not going to be hit that much. 

Wendy Beck 55:09
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 55:10
I mean, I do know. 

Wendy Beck 55:11
Like for game. 

Michelle Hayes 55:11
Amy. 

There's one game I play, they'll always put you up. 

Of the. 

Wendy Beck 55:21
Or if it's. 

Michelle Hayes 55:21
It's on my computer now. And. 

Rich Bennett 55:23
Scan it now. 

Michelle Hayes 55:24
Now U2, that's a difference even. But if you watch, you want to say. 

Wendy Beck 55:31
But. 

Michelle Hayes 55:31
See the ones in for like prime example. I have a shirt. For instance, that would be open for conversation. Okay. You bring it back and you come back. It's a scan. This is my coworker. I know a lot of people, actually. 

Wendy Beck 55:47
Point two 

Michelle Hayes 55:48
To the conversations with Ridge Bennett website. 

Wendy Beck 55:50
from 

Michelle Hayes 55:50
Mm 

Wendy Beck 55:50
the. 

Michelle Hayes 55:51
hmm. From the shirt. Some people kind of. Okay. I mean, it's kind of weird because I'll be walking through the store and look like people are taking picture of my ass. That's a conversation starter, though. You turn around and be like, Are you taking a picture of my butt? Like, What's going on? 

Wendy Beck 56:08
Oh, 

Michelle Hayes 56:08
Oh, 

Wendy Beck 56:09
is 

Michelle Hayes 56:09
yeah. 

Wendy Beck 56:09
that. 

Michelle Hayes 56:10
It is not is just the QR code, the logo on the front metal design these for me and I love them. There's if you select Pearl, it's a great way to get glitter on your cards without your husband knowing. 

Wendy Beck 56:23
What do you mean? 

Michelle Hayes 56:24
I love glitter. 

Wendy Beck 56:25
Color purple the. 

Michelle Hayes 56:26
Yeah, the pearl light gloss on it. It looks like it has glitter on it, but it's just the pearl. And I love glitter. 

So that was my my little way to get glitter on it. But yes, so it's got the QR code on it and we customized ours. But you don't have to. 

Wendy Beck 56:41
Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 56:43
But in print, don't overdo it because I've seen things overdone. It can be overdone just like anything else. But in print 100%. He was a. 

Wendy Beck 56:55
Right. 

And then have everything else on your 

Rich Bennett 56:58
Your website. 

Wendy Beck 56:58
website. 

Michelle Hayes 56:59
Unless you're talking about something else specifically. 

Wendy Beck 57:02
Like they 

Michelle Hayes 57:02
They 

Wendy Beck 57:02
did 

Michelle Hayes 57:02
did. 

Wendy Beck 57:02
with. Like, with football and. 

Michelle Hayes 57:03
Right. Have it link to that football page or the cheerleading page or I've seen it linked to a map for like it was a festival. It linked directly to the map on the web page. 

Wendy Beck 57:15
That's a good idea. 

Michelle Hayes 57:16
Right. It was like a printed map, but then it had like the QR code in the one corner and you could link to just the map. It didn't have the whole webpage. You didn't have to go look for it. You didn't want to carry the whole map. You just linked to map. 

Wendy Beck 57:26
Gotcha. 

Michelle Hayes 57:26
And that worked really, really well. Yeah, because I don't want to carry on now. 

Wendy Beck 57:31
The possibilities are endless with marketing and just you have to have the right person to guide you. And 

Michelle Hayes 57:36
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 57:37
you know when your name's Michel. 

Rich Bennett 57:39
Michelle. 

Wendy Beck 57:40
Well, when you're. Yeah. Look at that. And look at the pearly. Thing. But yeah, and I guess, you know, finding the right budget can be challenging as well for what you. 

Michelle Hayes 57:54
But I 

Wendy Beck 57:54
I also 

Michelle Hayes 57:54
also. 

Wendy Beck 57:55
I'm like, Well, we're not going anywhere with nothing. So we kind of have to, like, jump to that next level. So I'm sure a lot of people feel that way in in businesses. 

Michelle Hayes 58:05
They do. 

Wendy Beck 58:06
Don't know which way to turn. 

Michelle Hayes 58:07
And budget is a conversation no one likes. 

Wendy Beck 58:09
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 58:09
Right. So we're that's another thing. We're really trying to turn the marketing on its head because we don't want to give you a number. We want to give you everything we. Because I worked for a tearoom in Pennsylvania. I worked for one of the local Chick fil A's, and I loved the owner. I really I love small business. I really, really do. 

Wendy Beck 58:36
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 58:37
And I mean, when I was pregnant with my son at 20, I helped my mom work for small business selling jewelry. And now she's one of my contractors, which is really cool. So it kind of flipped on its head. But because I just love small business. What we want to ask you, what are you comfortable spending? What is your comfortable place? Because a lot of times it's not a huge budget. 

Wendy Beck 59:04
And it depends 

Michelle Hayes 59:04
And that's 

Wendy Beck 59:05
on what you're going to get. 

Michelle Hayes 59:06
exactly 

Wendy Beck 59:06
You know, if I'm, you know, contracting with someone and let's say I agree to a certain price and then I'm not getting what my expectations get. Getting what I asked or I'm not getting the support. And now I feel like, oh my gosh, I'm spending money on something and I'm not even able to utilize it as we need 

Michelle Hayes 59:25
right. 

Wendy Beck 59:25
it. That's a frustration level for a nonprofit and that happens 

Michelle Hayes 59:29
And that's 

Wendy Beck 59:29
that. 

Michelle Hayes 59:29
where the agreement comes into place 

Wendy Beck 59:31
Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 59:32
that's signed by both parties and outlines exactly the statement of work, what we're giving you, what you can expect as well as do you want to make sure you have a meeting with us every week. Cool. We'll put that in your contract and your agreement, which every word you. 

Wendy Beck 59:48
I'm not saying that we have used, you know, people that 

Michelle Hayes 59:50
That we weren't 

Wendy Beck 59:51
aren't 

Michelle Hayes 59:51
satisfied 

Wendy Beck 59:51
satisfied. 

Michelle Hayes 59:51
with. 

Wendy Beck 59:51
Than in the past. But I have 

Michelle Hayes 59:54
I've 

Wendy Beck 59:54
yet 

Michelle Hayes 59:54
yet 

Wendy Beck 59:54
to 

Michelle Hayes 59:54
to 

Wendy Beck 59:54
find. 

Michelle Hayes 59:54
find someone that I'm. 

Wendy Beck 59:55
Ready to take on as like a. Okay, let's just go over this. You know what I mean? Maybe project oriented or or, you know, like a different platform for certain kind of giving or that kind of thing. But, you know, just there needs to be a level of you training your customer as well. 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:14
Exactly. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:14
And I think any of the little handholding and the big. For sure. Well. 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:19
Yeah, the whole thing one. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:20
One of the 

Rich Bennett 1:00:20
The things 

Wendy Beck 1:00:20
things 

Rich Bennett 1:00:20
I 

Wendy Beck 1:00:20
I 

Rich Bennett 1:00:20
do. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:21
do. 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:21
My sponsors 

Rich Bennett 1:00:22
If. 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:22
if. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:22
If I let them know. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:25
Because 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:26
Because they know if they're getting anything from their eggs 

Rich Bennett 1:00:28
that's. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:29
See 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:29
that 

Wendy Beck 1:00:30
if 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:30
if. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:30
Threads 

Wendy Beck 1:00:30
their answer 

Rich Bennett 1:00:30
are 

Wendy Beck 1:00:30
would 

Rich Bennett 1:00:30
being. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:30
be 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:30
Clicked on, 

Wendy Beck 1:00:31
right. 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:31
right? 

Wendy Beck 1:00:33
For the display. 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:33
But yes, 

Rich Bennett 1:00:34
As 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:34
as 

Rich Bennett 1:00:34
far 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:34
far 

Rich Bennett 1:00:34
as 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:34
as the. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:34
the. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:35
Podcast. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:35
Standards? I have no idea. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:37
Right that. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:39
But. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:39
But I always 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:40
He's 

Wendy Beck 1:00:40
tell 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:40
telling 

Wendy Beck 1:00:40
them 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:40
me. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:40
if you're 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:41
You're 

Wendy Beck 1:00:41
not 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:41
not getting 

Wendy Beck 1:00:41
getting. 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:41
any response. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:42
Let me know. 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:43
No. That means we need to change up the. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:45
Right. I'm going 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:46
Always wanted to do 

Wendy Beck 1:00:46
do that. 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:47
that. I'm not going to charge for that, because if it doesn't if it's not if they're not having success with that, then I'm. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:55
Says with it in. 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:56
I got a job and a lot. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:57
I have a lot of. Agencies 

Michelle Hayes 1:00:59
He will 

Wendy Beck 1:00:59
will not 

Michelle Hayes 1:01:00
not 

Wendy Beck 1:01:00
do 

Michelle Hayes 1:01:00
do that. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:00
that. 

Michelle Hayes 1:01:00
No, no. I was really, really shocked. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:04
They will. 

Michelle Hayes 1:01:04
They won't talk to you. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:05
Well, that's another thing that you know. 

Michelle Hayes 1:01:08
Communication is not there and that communication is like monumental. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:13
Yeah, well, me and I have experienced that, especially, you know, I won't say any names, but like this giving platform. And we're just like we were paying for them to provide us with support and they like. 

Michelle Hayes 1:01:25
I. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:26
I guess what we forget. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:27
It. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:28
Well, they get your money and then they're like, We'll schedule. Any time we needed to talk to them, it was like three weeks out. I'm like, by three weeks, our events over, you know, like Recovery month is, is like whatever it is. And so we we were just like, you know, at what level? And again, I felt like it was like there was a time difference and it really wasn't obtainable in that kind of stuff. So I do think that having someone local is, is definitely unless you're like this gigantic corporation where they can fly and have coffee 

Michelle Hayes 1:01:58
Right. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:58
with you and have that, you know, face to face once in a while quarterly or whatever. But, you know, if when somebody's like every dollar counts in their business, small business, whether it's non-profit or not, that budget, you need to get what your expectations are. And so yeah, so this is this is cool. This is kind of like a little like I said, it's an educational podcast. 

Michelle Hayes 1:02:18
It's cool. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:18
Yeah. It's also good. If you have that connection when I say that can. 

Michelle Hayes 1:02:23
Like. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:23
If you're. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:25
You. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:25
Usually. 

Michelle Hayes 1:02:26
See. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:27
Prime example, like 

Rich Bennett 1:02:28
If 

Wendy Beck 1:02:28
with 

Rich Bennett 1:02:28
you. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:28
you with the. 

Michelle Hayes 1:02:29
Dixon. And somehow or another they had that connection with addiction 

Wendy Beck 1:02:33
They're going to 

Michelle Hayes 1:02:34
to. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:34
feel. Closure. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:36
It was. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:37
Please help me write. 

Michelle Hayes 1:02:38
Even just that. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:41
For. 

Michelle Hayes 1:02:43
Shall I look at? 

Wendy Beck 1:02:46
Because I knew the family. Right. I considered him 

Rich Bennett 1:02:49
Family. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:49
family. 

Michelle Hayes 1:02:49
Family. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:49
So that's 

Rich Bennett 1:02:50
Thank. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:50
that. 

Michelle Hayes 1:02:51
Connection. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:52
Right. Plus, if I do something wrong, just. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:54
Just punch me. 

Michelle Hayes 1:02:56
I would not. 

Wendy Beck 1:02:57
But it's a. 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:01
Marketing 

Wendy Beck 1:03:01
Marketing. 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:01
exchange. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:03
Sure. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:03
So much throughout 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:03
Two 

Wendy Beck 1:03:03
the 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:04
years 

Wendy Beck 1:03:04
years when 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:04
when 

Wendy Beck 1:03:04
I 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:04
I 

Wendy Beck 1:03:04
was 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:04
was. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:05
when 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:05
When I. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:05
I first got into. Never forget 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:08
This. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:08
this. Especially the sales part you 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:10
You 

Wendy Beck 1:03:11
would 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:11
would 

Wendy Beck 1:03:11
get. 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:11
go in your were. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:12
Expected to close the sale on. 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:14
On that first. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:16
Tripp. Wow. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Now, 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:19
Nowadays, anything like 

Wendy Beck 1:03:20
that 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:20
that, you have to build that relationship. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:22
relationship. 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:24
And that's. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:25
Even with. 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:26
With the nonprofit. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:26
But you got to build 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:27
That 

Wendy Beck 1:03:27
that. 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:27
relationship. That's how you're going to 

Wendy Beck 1:03:28
Get 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:28
get 

Wendy Beck 1:03:28
more 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:28
more. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:29
people. 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:30
Don't you 

Wendy Beck 1:03:31
Because then they feel 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:32
feel 

Wendy Beck 1:03:32
more 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:32
more? 

Wendy Beck 1:03:32
connected. Mhm. You know which I that's, I love your 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:36
Your 

Wendy Beck 1:03:36
I. 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:36
idea. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:36
Meeting with your meeting for coffee? 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:38
Coffee. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:39
Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:39
And because I want to work with local business, I know sometimes coffee is not in the budget. I mean, speaking from experience, coffee sometimes just isn't in the budget. So that's why I say I'll buy you coffee. I want to buy you coffee. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:55
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 1:03:55
And another thing is, you don't have time for coffee. Cool. Where you want me to get you coffee from? I will meet you. I can bring you coffee. 

Wendy Beck 1:04:05
I know. 

Michelle Hayes 1:04:06
I'm fine. I'll. I'll have my coffee in the morning. 

Wendy Beck 1:04:08
So 

Michelle Hayes 1:04:08
When do we bring her? I said 

Wendy Beck 1:04:10
she'll 

Michelle Hayes 1:04:10
she'll 

Wendy Beck 1:04:10
be 

Michelle Hayes 1:04:10
be 

Wendy Beck 1:04:10
fine. 

Michelle Hayes 1:04:10
fine. I was like, And I even suppose 

Wendy Beck 1:04:13
And that's kind of 

Michelle Hayes 1:04:14
I 

Wendy Beck 1:04:14
like 

Michelle Hayes 1:04:14
am 

Wendy Beck 1:04:14
your 

Michelle Hayes 1:04:14
like a. 

Wendy Beck 1:04:15
thing. Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 1:04:16
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 1:04:17
And that's and that's cool, too. 

Michelle Hayes 1:04:18
And if you don't like coffee, I don't hate you. I also will bring you tea. Or have tea. I We can have hot water, cold or I don't care. 

Wendy Beck 1:04:26
Press girl. Yes. 

Michelle Hayes 1:04:27
Yes, I love the French press, too, but yeah. No, I mean. 

Wendy Beck 1:04:31
Why? 

Michelle Hayes 1:04:32
Beverage or whatever you prefer. Water. We can even have water. If you're just against anything else, then it's all. Yeah, Yeah, It's just the converse. 

Wendy Beck 1:04:41
And I also. Bringing 

Michelle Hayes 1:04:42
Bringing. 

Wendy Beck 1:04:43
something to someone is very impactful. Even if. 

Michelle Hayes 1:04:48
You know. 

Wendy Beck 1:04:49
I don't know. Do you ever, like, meet up with a friend that you haven't seen and they give you a tiny gift and be like, Oh, this is for your birthday. I'm sorry I missed it. And you feel so special. So if someone was actually, like, coming to a meeting or coming and they bring you that extra, they took that extra effort to get to know you or to make sure that you feel special. And I and that doesn't happen very often. Honestly, we don't we don't do that as much as. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:16
Doing that. 

Wendy Beck 1:05:17
Yeah. I mean, even like recently I was like, you know, I need to, like, start sending the girls at the houses mail, you know, like if they do something, like, you know, someone lost someone. So I like, I sent her, you know, a card, you know, with deepest. 

Michelle Hayes 1:05:33
Simply. 

Wendy Beck 1:05:33
Someone else did something. She actually bought umbrellas with her own money for the porch. And I was like, I just need to get that personal connection because maybe I'm not showing up all the time like Rachel. But, you know, it's it's a way. 

Michelle Hayes 1:05:46
A way for me to get to know them is. 

Wendy Beck 1:05:47
Say, Hey, I appreciate what you're doing, where I see what's happening in your life and. 

Michelle Hayes 1:05:52
I'm sorry. 

Wendy Beck 1:05:53
And so it's that same thing. It's that thoughtfulness that you don't get from a virtual expert. 

Michelle Hayes 1:05:59
Right. Right. Yeah. It's definitely that that in-person human connection and that. Bit. 

Wendy Beck 1:06:06
Yes. Well, I'm excited. I'm ready. The website. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:11
But. 

Wendy Beck 1:06:11
But you actually have a website. You don't use Facebook as your website. 

Michelle Hayes 1:06:14
Oh, no. That is a massive pet peeve. Facebook is Facebook. Instagram is Instagram. Your website's your website and they are all three different. That is a massive pet peeve of 

Wendy Beck 1:06:29
Into. 

Michelle Hayes 1:06:29
most. I won't say every because I won't speak for every many marketers. We see wonderful businesses on Facebook and we look for the website link and it's nowhere to be found because it doesn't exist. 

Wendy Beck 1:06:41
Right. Well, and I think people can be intimidated by that because. 

Michelle Hayes 1:06:44
Again. 

Wendy Beck 1:06:45
They don't want to put the money into it or that type of thing. 

Michelle Hayes 1:06:49
And even if that's if that's where you're at. Cool. Let's have coffee, because it can be very daunting and you can look at it and you can look at WordPress or you can look at any other of the platforms and it just kind of looks like you're drinking from a fire hose and you're going to get blown away. If a restaurant doesn't 

Rich Bennett 1:07:08
Doesn't 

Wendy Beck 1:07:08
I 

Rich Bennett 1:07:08
have 

Michelle Hayes 1:07:08
have 

Wendy Beck 1:07:08
have 

Rich Bennett 1:07:08
a 

Wendy Beck 1:07:08
a 

Rich Bennett 1:07:08
website. 

Michelle Hayes 1:07:08
a 

Wendy Beck 1:07:08
website. 

Michelle Hayes 1:07:08
website. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:09
I'm not going to that. Right. 

Wendy Beck 1:07:10
Really? Because 

Michelle Hayes 1:07:11
Because 

Wendy Beck 1:07:11
I. 

Michelle Hayes 1:07:12
I can't see the menu. You can't see the menu. You can't see. What if you have allergies? What if you have a severe seafood allergy and they, like, serve mostly seafood or everything looks like it's cooked on like a flat top and you're allergic to gluten. They're probably grilling those buns on the same blacktop. You can't eat there unless you can see some things probably done in, like, a fryer. 

Wendy Beck 1:07:35
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 1:07:36
So that's where you can find like contact us information. A lot of people like Facebook Messenger. Personally, I'm an email person. I think it's a little more personal and you're going to reach somebody a little higher up than the person that's like on their Facebook messenger, which is probably like an assistant manager. So personally. Me and my son have allergies. So as a concerned parent and a concerned person for myself, that's where I go is a website, a business. I want to see, what are you selling? What if you're creative? What's your website look like? Come on, show me. You should be in the context. Yes. 

Wendy Beck 1:08:12
So that's what I was saying before. Where? 

Michelle Hayes 1:08:15
Are you local? Because I would rather buy. Like the other day I bought cute little baseball earrings from one of the pop ups at Coffee Bar. Awesome. They're little baseballs. We love baseball. Baseball and golf like that's us. And so the whole baseball is when I go to a baseball game in a couple of weeks. And so I bought those and then I looked online. There's so many different ones. Went right to the website and I was like, I need that one. Down, down, down, down. And you can just see how many different options there are. It's a great marketing tool. 

Wendy Beck 1:08:51
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 1:08:52
And you can use your Facebook to drive to your website and you can have that point of sale on your website. You can open up so much more power with a website than you can with 

Wendy Beck 1:09:04
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 1:09:05
just a Facebook page. 

Wendy Beck 1:09:05
And then they were also saying, and I don't know how true this is, but, you know, face Facebook and Instagram, they're basically free for you, you know, 

Michelle Hayes 1:09:12
Oh, 

Wendy Beck 1:09:12
to 

Michelle Hayes 1:09:13
yeah. 

Wendy Beck 1:09:13
use. So what happens if that goes away? All your information is gone. How many times 

Michelle Hayes 1:09:17
Town, says 

Wendy Beck 1:09:17
has. 

Michelle Hayes 1:09:18
Facebook. 

Wendy Beck 1:09:18
Or is it, Graham? 

Michelle Hayes 1:09:19
Gone down. 

Wendy Beck 1:09:20
Sure. Whatever. Right. While you drive people to your website, if you don't have one, you've lost everything. 

Michelle Hayes 1:09:26
Oh, yeah. 

Yes, you got it. You you want that Because a lot of people look at the Google reviews and this is going to help. 

Wendy Beck 1:09:37
Okay. 

Michelle Hayes 1:09:38
So what it means is, you know, social media marketing. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:43
Any 

Wendy Beck 1:09:43
Any 

Rich Bennett 1:09:43
other 

Wendy Beck 1:09:43
other 

Rich Bennett 1:09:43
type 

Wendy Beck 1:09:43
type 

Rich Bennett 1:09:44
of 

Wendy Beck 1:09:44
of 

Rich Bennett 1:09:44
marketing. 

Wendy Beck 1:09:44
marketing that you do. 

Michelle Hayes 1:09:45
Everything. 

Wendy Beck 1:09:46
Brand. Brand. 

Michelle Hayes 1:09:47
The 

branding. We can help with a little bit of business like consultation. I don't have a lawyer on any of my staff. I don't actually have staff. Staff. It's just Michelle and I. But I do have a wide range of contractors that I do hire. I have graphic designers. I have proofreader. I have content writers. I have pretty much anything you can think of as a specialty at my fingertips. And they are a phone call away or a slack message. My, my team uses Slack just because that's what we've been comfortable with. 

So. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:23
Then. 

Michelle Hayes 1:10:23
No, no. We wanted to make sure that anything we can put back into getting our clients the best for the least amount is going to that, because we really even Mitchell and I both, we really, really have a heart for small business and local business. I'd rather buy from a local brewery than buy, you know, 

Wendy Beck 1:10:45
Right. 

Michelle Hayes 1:10:45
something at the liquor store that's from, you know. 

Wendy Beck 1:10:48
Ice cream or. Yeah, I. 

Michelle Hayes 1:10:50
Exactly. 

Wendy Beck 1:10:51
Cool. What's. 

Michelle Hayes 1:10:53
It is WW clever cltv e r dash cat dot com. 

Wendy Beck 1:11:02
Is there a fair number of people 

Rich Bennett 1:11:03
People 

Wendy Beck 1:11:03
to. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:03
can. 

Michelle Hayes 1:11:04
Yes, that phone number is 

4105753334. And you can either text or call 

Wendy Beck 1:11:13
Do you have any more questions 

Michelle Hayes 1:11:14
or 

Wendy Beck 1:11:14
for 

Michelle Hayes 1:11:15
post. 

Wendy Beck 1:11:15
him? 

Michelle Hayes 1:11:15
I know you. 

Wendy Beck 1:11:16
Yes. Well, I'm here to talk to her off line. Yeah. 

Michelle Hayes 1:11:18
When that phone number goes directly to my phone personally. So you text that does me. 

Wendy Beck 1:11:27
All right. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:28
Get rich. 

Wendy Beck 1:11:30
Did you just make that up? 

Rich Bennett 1:11:32
You said all 

Wendy Beck 1:11:32
Oh, my goodness. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:34
Used to. Never. 

Wendy Beck 1:11:35
Oh, that was the high heels again up. No, I didn't. 

Michelle Hayes 1:11:43
No, just. Just. Keep doing what you're doing and reach out to us if you think we can help you. I mean, we want to help as many as we can for whatever they're comfortable with. We just we have a fire in us to help small business as much as we can. 

Rich Bennett 1:12:01
You are going to get busy. 

Wendy Beck 1:12:03
And she's adorable, by the way. Really is. She's very delightful. What? I mean, I think that. 

Michelle Hayes 1:12:09
Introduce you to somebody that's not in the world. 

I mean. 

Wendy Beck 1:12:14
No, because you want to have someone that's excited about what they're doing. And I can see that in excitement in you. And that's and to me, that's like, yes, she's going to do what I need her to do and she's going to be happy about it. 

Michelle Hayes 1:12:26
Yes. 

Wendy Beck 1:12:27
And not everybody's like that, you know, like, I feel like you you talk to people and there's like this disconnect with that excitement. And the clever cat is not like that at all. 

Michelle Hayes 1:12:38
No, no. We like our. We like our sparkle. 

Wendy Beck 1:12:40
Yes. 

Michelle Hayes 1:12:41
We definitely like our sparkle, but we don't make every client have sparkle. You only have like literal sparkle if you want it. 

Wendy Beck 1:12:48
Yes, I. 

Michelle Hayes 1:12:49
But that that razzle dazzle goes on. Everything.