Beyond Belief: The Supernatural Experiences of Rev. Dr. David Chotka

Rich Bennett 0:00
Thanks for joining the conversation. We explore the stories and experiences that shape our world. Thrilled to have Reverend Dr. David Chock, a passionate teacher and leader in spiritual development as a driving force behind spirit equip. Reverend Dr. Cheika dedicates himself to equipping believers for spiritual success through deep teachings on prayer, faith and listening to God's voice. So join us as we have. We're going to go deep into this because this is a conversation we're gonna have about God. And this is something that I believe a lot of people are missing. We already know that. Unfortunately, 

it's missing in the schools. It's missing in a lot of work, a lot of the workplace and 

actually in the government. So first of all, hey, do thanks for coming on. I've been looking forward to this. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:02
Pleased to meet you. I'll just say I'm a Canadian, so if you ask the American government, they'll say, I got a Canadian guy that I don't want in my office. 

So I don't have any say in America. No. 

Rich Bennett 1:17
But. But it's true. I mean, it's and I don't know why. It's like people are 

afraid to talk about God. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:29
Yes, they are. 

Rich Bennett 1:30
And I don't understand why. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:32
Well, some of that is because they're turned off for some of us, because they're not sure. They believe and some of them think it's mythology and some of them are pushy and nasty and slap you in the forehead and scream heel when nothing happens. 

So there's there there for every person, there's a different story. Right. But it shouldn't be any different than talking. About. If you're in it in one of those modes. We want to try and figure it out. It can be an ordinary conversation. If somebody's trying to be pushy and nasty, then it's a different thing altogether. And so my my goal is not to invite myself to talk to somebody who doesn't want to hear anything I'm saying. My goal is to enter the conversation. Which is I like the. Title of your of your podcast conversations. That's. Oh, well, thank you. 

Rich Bennett 2:15
Thank you. Now, we actually led you down this path. Were you always a reverend in doing this? 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 2:23
Well, I've been a reverend since. Well, listen, I became. A Tory, so here's the background. 

Rich Bennett 2:27
Okay? 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 2:27
My two parents were what I. Call senior Christians Christmas and Easter. 

Rich Bennett 2:33
Okay. And the. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 2:34
Only reason they were was because they were Eastern Orthodox and. Ukrainian Catholic. That's a threat. So I'm one hundred percent Ukrainian. I don't know if you knew that part. 

Rich Bennett 2:42
Oh, well. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 2:43
That's my background. And they grew up in small rural prairie towns in Saskatchewan, in Manitoba and Canada, north of the Dakotas. Anyway, so actually their parents. Broke the soil in western Canada and. In those towns. In such situations. Whole towns from the old country would move over to get free land. And so they brought their friends with them. They brought their associations with them. They brought their first or second or third cousin, and they would. But then we get free land. So that's why they did it. And they didn't have land in the old country, so they came to do it. And so. The towns would transplant and very often. There wasn't a priest to be had. There was no pastor who was no priest because really it was really rural, isolated pockets. If a priest came, it would be every once a month or once every six weeks or something. And so although they had faith in the background, it wasn't it wasn't front center. 

Rich Bennett 3:28
Right. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 3:29
Anyway, bottom line. Was they they met each other and subsequently married and moved to the city I grew up in, which is just north of Niagara Falls. So that's where I'm from, if anybody wants to know. And and in the course of time, they had a family. But here's what happened. My dad had a rough background. 

Rich Bennett 3:44
When he was six. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 3:45
Years old. He got kicked by a horse and he broke his jaw. And then because they were these poor immigrant people, they didn't know how to access health care. His sister, my dad, was the youngest of fourteen, and his sister saved his life, you know, And so she got him to a hospital in time to just barely get himself, see, But he lost considerable of his vision. He lost the ability for his eyes to be able to move right and left. And he had to turn his head to be able to see things. So he grew up bluffing his way through life and had a very hard time believing that there could be a God of love, you know, saying. Right. The other side of this is you heard I'm ethnically Ukrainian and Stalin assassinated five to seven million Ukrainians to take their land away in East Russia, which is why the eastern part of the Ukraine speaks Russian. The land was stolen and it was stolen from farmers who were starved to death as they went to harvest their crops. They were shot. Mm hmm. And so this it was a it was an annihilation of that. And this history is. Like it's like the Northern. Ireland question, Right? Right. Because some English came gave land in the north of Ireland to Scottish people who were loyal to him. And so you have this Irish problem, you know, it's the same issue in Russia and Ukraine. The land that was Ukrainian was deeded over to Russians and they took it by force and they killed people. It was violent. And so now. The world. Knows you're not Russian. If you're Ukrainian, they get it right. But until this war, they didn't understand it. But regardless of this, my dad could not believe in a God of love. He could not believe that there was this thing called compassion because he'd been hurt, you've been damaged, etc., etc.. Anyway, bottom line, I was a first believer in our home. 

Rich Bennett 5:19
Okay? 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 5:19
And my dad couldn't bring himself to believe. And I used to always pray for him. Oh man. I would pray for him to come to faith in God, but he couldn't. He couldn't bring us out. And, you know, we'd have the he'd have these arguments with me and my mama would leave the room. 

Ukrainians shout, That's the that's the. 

Rich Bennett 5:35
Who showed. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 5:36
Across the table. And that I want to tell you the moment where everything changed. One was my and the second. Was what was his own encounter with the Lord. So my call to ministry involved my he didn't know he was an agnostic or an atheist, and he quit because he just unsure if there was no God. But then he'd see things growing and he'd look at a creation and say, There's gotta be something there. And so he be agnostic. But he didn't know what that God was, etc., etc.. Anyway, so my call of ministry. Happened this way and it was one night I was having a chat with my dad and it was a cordial. One and all of my. Marks in high school. All of them were just about within a percentage of each other and I had no particular. Inclination to do any one thing or another thing. And I said, Dad, I don't know what I'm going to do for a. And he looked at me with a sparkling his. I said, Son, you got to have yourself a good sleep. And in the morning you'll know one of those you know, one of those crazy joshing conversation. Oh. So I went upstairs to bed. And believe it or not, the next morning I woke up and I knew I was going to be a pastor. Wow. And so, you know, there's you have to hear the end of the story to get this. It wasn't just a one off. So here's what happened. I walked into. The school and I saw a guidance counselor. I had a couple of spears in my day that time. And I said, oh, by the way, I want to be a pastor. And he said, What. Church do you go to? I said, Oh, I don't like it. The reason my parents go there is because the pastor always visits. Oh. And so he said, Well, look, I'm in the same combination. You want to be my pastor? I said, Well, I'm happy to. I just don't know if I'm a fit. So I went over to see this guy and he was an English guy smoking a pipe and blowing smoke grease. 

And he sat back and he started to talk about the gospel, which I really liked the fellow. He was just marvelous. I said, Well, you got to come here to pushing for the ministry so we could. But you're right. Your parents are at the other church and they love you. I said, Yes. And he said, Well, you ought to bloom where you're planted. So I booked in to see that pastor the next day in one of those spears. And I hadn't told my mom or dad. Anything yet, so. Right. And I go into this office and there's this pastor who. I think is a terrible preacher, but he's a great guy who loves people. You know, that's what he was. He was a visitation guy. You know, he really he. He'd go to. Anybody any hour of the day or night if they were trouble. And that's one of the parents liked him. But if you sat in that. Service, it was. Always one of two. Stories. It was either the prodigal son or the Good Samaritan. So for years ago, we did the ministry. I didn't preach those two stories because I was just so tired of hearing his. 

So anyway, I walk into his office and this pastor looks at me and he says, You're going in the ministry. I said, How did you know? He said, I've been praying about it. I just know that you're supposed to go into the ministry now. The board meets tonight. And if you. I said, Really? He said, Yes. And we haven't had a candidate for the ministry in twenty years. You're the first one in twenty years. Is our anniversary in the church and you could be our centennial candidate. I said, Really? Yeah. Well, I'm going to put your name forward tonight. And that night they said yes to me. And then there were three committees that I had to see. And ordinarily they meet. Over the period of a year to a year and a half. 

Rich Bennett 8:38
Right. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 8:39
All of those committees mentioned the Met. And the next. Week I went to all. Wow. And at the end of that week, it was signed, sealed, delivered. I was on my way. I'd been accepted by my denomination to be candidate for this year. So I walk in to see my dad and I said, Dad, remember when I was standing by the refrigerator? And I said, I don't know what I'm. Going to do? And you told me to get a good night's sleep. He said, Yeah, what you decide? I said, I'm. Going to be a pastor. And his jaw dropped. 

Rich Bennett 9:01
Oh boy. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 9:02
She turned white as a ghost. And he said, We have to talk. I said, Okay, when do you want to do that? He said, When you finish your study at the restaurant, we're going to talk. So we sat down. So my parents ran a restaurant. So on the floor we cleaned the fans, you know, and we got everything ready for the next day. And it was a it was a diner. So it was breakfast, lunch and late afternoon. That's what it was. Anyway. Bottom line is my dad sits down and he has a shot of whiskey. He begins to turn white as a sheet. He starts to physically shake and he just the color drains out of his face. And he said, I have to tell you what happened that night. I said, Well, what was it? He said, I went to bed after you did, and your mother was fast asleep. I lay down beside her and suddenly I looked up and the risen Lord was standing in the doorway in the bedroom. Wow. He walked over to me and he said, Go and ask your son David what he dreams. Wake him. Ask him what he dreams. And then tell him he's going to be a pastor who will travel and write and teach and lead. And my dad thought he was having a crazy dream. So he gets out of bed. He walks up the stairs, he tries to wake me. I don't wake up. And what after I don't wake up, he just comes to himself and he says, Charlie's the weirdest dream. I don't even know if I believe in that stuff. So he goes back to bed and he tries to get himself in the bed. The Lord reappears. Grabs him by the scruff of the pajamas, stands him to his feet and says, You wake your son, David, ask him what he dreams, and tell him that what he's dreaming is, in fact true. And so my dad said. Go away. 

The Lord said, Go now. And so he raced up the stairs. He found me. He shook me. And I don't remember this. I was groggy. Apparently I was weak. And he said. What are you dreaming? And I'm getting this from my dad. He said, You told me. You were with Jesus and he was showing you the things that you were going to accomplish. You were too right. You were to travel, you were to teach. You're going to be a local church pastor. Then you're going to be a someone who travels the earth to teach. And then my dad said, Well, what you heard is correct. Jesus of Nazareth told me to tell you that. And then he went back to bed and he woke up the next morning and said to himself, Dad was a weird dream. 

Rich Bennett 11:19
Yeah, but I bet it changed his belief. One every Tuesday. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 11:22
And it started the process and but what I. Didn't see, I had no personal memory of that. I had no leader. And that story was dramatic. Let me tell you how my dad became a believer. So he continued to. Struggle with this whole notion of of God, of love. How is that possible with all this suffering, with the violence, with the death, you know, with the with the loss of land and career and opportunity, and for Ukrainian girls being raped by Russian soldiers and being killed, all this kind of stuff. He just couldn't believe it. Anyway, bottom line was there was one day where. I was in a prayer meeting and when. I walked in the prayer meeting, I always I was in that. Prayer meeting for three years. That was a university where all university students were cross denominational. We just didn't care because we were trying to understand faith in the context of a secular environment. So I prayed with Catholics and Mennonites and Baptists and Presbyterians and you name the kind of Christian didn't matter. We were Christians, we were together. Let's figure this out. Let's help each other. And in the middle of that, I spoke a little bit. I said whenever I walked in the room, they would say, Oh, we've got to pray for David's dad. David's here. We got to pray every day because I always say, Oh God, remember my dad? It. So I walked in late one time and I said, Oh, they said, Oh, we got to pray for David's dad. And I started to pray. This lamenting prayer. Oh, God, I remember my dad. And there was a girl in the room, Mennonite, a girl. Her name was Joanne. She looked at me and she said, David, do you think you have to remind the Lord every time you come. Into his presence that maybe he should act to save your. Father? I said, Yeah. She said, That's just a flawed. View of God. Don't you know when you pray a prayer, it passes through time and space, it pierces into eternity and it stays before the throne of God forever. Until God in His sovereignty, enters the stream of history with the answer to your prayer. Wow, what an. Amazing conversation that was. And then I got this assurance in my heart, Enemy In the middle of that, somebody said, Your prayer for your dad has been answered. And I felt a snap in my spirit. And suddenly I knew that it was true. Now my dad and I had a custom. Here's the custom every Sunday I'd say, Dad, do you want to go to church? He'd say, No. And then he'd tell me, Your work project is the same way every every Sunday was the same. And so on the Sunday morning, I had this expectation that maybe he'd come. I said, Dad wanted a church. He said. No, and he told me what the reason was. He said, It's actually remember this. There was a time. We had screens, windows and then storm windows we had. 

Rich Bennett 13:46
Right. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 13:47
Okay. And so we rented apartments attached to the diner. And there was five of those. And so he said, I have to change the screens for the storms this October. The storms are going to come. We're going to have to change this up. And I was really disappointed. Anyway, I come back and. Once again he looks at me strangely. He says, we have to talk. I said when he said, next Sunday after church, you're going to ask me. I'm going to say no, but we'll talk. Said a whole week. He said, Yeah, holy. I said, okay, that. So I Next. Sally asked Dad, do you want to go to church? He said. No. When he told me, he said, But they really talk after church. And so after church he. Sat me down and once again he had a shot of whiskey. He started to turn white and shake. And I said, What is it, Dad? He said, You know, I was going to change the storm menus using the screen when I had to watch this, this great the storms, I said, Yeah, I know. Then he said, well, you know, we store those things in that room with the low beam in there. Yeah. I said, Yeah, that's right. I've met that being many a time. Did you said, well I meant that. So I said, Well dad, that does not surprise me, you know. And then he said, well you know, son, I banged my head in that beam and I swore. I said, Well, Dad, that doesn't surprise me either. He said, No, no, no. I took the name of your Lord in V. 

Rich Bennett 15:00
Oh. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 15:00
And I said, Well, Dad, you shouldn't do that. You said, Son, I know. And I heard a voice behind me say, Yes. And he turned around and the risen Lord was standing in the doorway of that storage room, and they locked eyes. And I told you, my dad lost most of his vision right? So he had to drop out of school and grade three O high as he could. He couldn't see the classroom board. He could. He couldn't make it so embarrassed to walk up to the front, read the notes. Yeah. Stuff going. And anyway, and that was back in the days in the form. Would you get away with that? You can't now but back in the day he did and so he was not given to poetry. Is what I'm trying to say. He was not reading Wadsworth Longfellow. 

Shakespeare was not on his plan. So anyway he, he looks at me. I said, What was it like? He said, I couldn't take my eyes off of his eyes. I said, Dan, what was it? What was it like? He said, It was like looking into Wells of Love. 

Rich Bennett 16:01
Whoa. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 16:02
And I sat back and I said. That's him. And I said, What did you say? And he waited. And then he said, I told him I love my son because I was the Christian in the family. Right? And the Lord spoke back to us, said, I know this was a long period of silence, and he couldn't take his eyes off of me. And he said, I'm a sinner. 

And Jesus said to him, and I forgive you. And he vanished. 

That's how my dad became a believer. 

Wow. That's a wow, sir, that's hot. And so I believe in a supernatural gospel. 

I wow in the supernatural. That's how my dad became a believer. 

Rich Bennett 16:53
That he go to church after. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 16:55
Night. Yes, he did. And so he actually he first of all, went to that church where where I didn't like the preacher. That preacher moved on. He retired and then my dad went to the missionary church and he was there until he moved to western Canada, where he was moved into if you go to a Baptist church there, because that was the church that was handy. Right. But anyway, he yes, he became a regular goer and he started to read the Bible and learn to grow. And he came in his fifties. He wasn't a young man when he got saved. He was in his mid mid-career, you know. Anyway, everything just changed from that point forward. And wow. Now there was he had lots of bags. Okay. He was a dry drunk, had been hit by a horse and lost his vision, etc., etc.. So there was lots and lots of bitterness and baggage. But he did begin to relate to God from that point forward and finally believe that the Scripture was true. 

Rich Bennett 17:42
What it's something you mentioned earlier too, with 

with everything that was going on in Ukraine and, you know, the women being I mean, just all the evil in the world, Do you find it that people just 

are too quick to blame God? Because you always hear that why we guide God do that? Well. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 18:11
Here's the thing. If you only. Believe in one power. Then God's a demon. If you believe that there is a demon, God's the good guy and there's a demon to him. And so the things that the Scripture attributes to the devil gets attributed to God. And we're in the midst of this place. It's a fallen planet. And you know, this line up. Even if there. Wasn't any natural disaster, there's still human inhumanity of humans against terrible stuff. And it happens in Western culture as well. As in Eastern culture. It happens in dictatorships. It happens in places where, you know, you have democracy, you do have people who are nasty and mean and they call themselves believers and they're false. And you can't get away from the fact that there are liars and hypocrites in every stream. As well as the good. Guys. I mean, the bottom line is. When I meet a true believer, I know. 

Rich Bennett 18:59
Right? 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 18:59
You know what I'm saying? But when you meet these false ones, you can't tell. For a while. And then, you know. You fight them. You lie to you or they treat you badly, or you have. Sharp business deal and take your money away or they fool you or whatever. And the bottom line is. You know, I've been a pastor of many churches. I have I started I was a solo church planter, and then I became an associate pastor. And then I had medium to large size churches. The last church I served could seat six hundred and fifty people at a session and had multiple services and so on. So I mean, I've been in large multi staff and I've been in midsize and I've been in small. And I will tell you this, this in the small church, it's next to impossible to be a leader at a Christian. In a small town. The big one you can hide 

the little church with lots of fun little just you know what little church, lots of fun. Because people just it's a little tribal society which you got there. You know, if you're all together, you all do this together. And as you walk down the street to the post office to get your mail, you see them and you have a coffee and you talk about your face, right? You know, somebody is in your church. That's that's how you grew it in a little town. When you go to the city, that's a different matter. And so they have different different processes to get yourself there. 

Rich Bennett 20:12
And now you're trying to work. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 20:13
With a little town called Lachlan Bush, Alberta. It wasn't the end of the world, but you could see it from there. The road ended and this. 

Rich Bennett 20:22
And now you traveled the world. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 20:24
Yes, I do. I fact, I've just got back from Australia next. 

Rich Bennett 20:28
Oh, wow. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 20:29
I'm going to be going to Vancouver next week. I'm going to Jackson, Mississippi, to do some recording and then I'm going to Vancouver and then in the fall to maybe some events in Toronto. Then I'm going to be going to Vietnam in the fall to to work with people from my denomination who have been in the persecuted church. And so my one of my books has been translated as we speak into Vietnamese, and it's my goal to get that book into their hands because they've not had access to resources to grow. And they're. 

Rich Bennett 20:57
Really. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 20:58
Yes, that's going to happen. So just so I just I just talked to a Vietnamese pastor half an hour ago because he speaks English in Vietnamese. And when you translate from one language to another, what you want to do is to make sure that you're faithfully translating the concepts, not just the words. Yeah, and sometimes your translator makes a mistake because they don't understand the theological concepts. So I just. We were talking. About an hour ago, I sealed the deal with this Vietnamese pastor that we're going to be in Vancouver, where he has a congregation that speaks English in Vietnamese. They're going to study my book in Vietnamese in English, and tell me if it's faithful translation. When that's done, I will get it published in country and then distributed to our branch there. So yeah, after the Vietnam War, all the Americans and Canadians were kicked out and the church there was planted by Americans, the Canadians. It was fifty eight thousand people. Now it's. One point five million believers. 

Rich Bennett 21:53
Really. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 21:53
Because they did. Not have access to. Western help and they started to have to do it themselves in a persecution context. And they plant one to two new churches a week in that country, but they don't have theological education. So let's get them some books. That's my hope. 

Rich Bennett 22:10
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So out of all the places you've been to, what's been probably the most challenging place to travel? 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 22:19
Africa. Travel. Africa was the most challenging. No, no, I went I went to Uganda and there's no infrastructure there. Oh, and Idi Amin and Joseph Kony had ravaged that country. And I went to try and help the Ugandans rebuild. Right. I made a commitment. There were two American congregations in my Canadian congregation and three of us took turns going to that country. We do one week intensives each. I would train seven hundred and fifty to one thousand pastors around some theology. I take a build team and they would they would build they build a library. They built the train they built you know, they built a kids learning center and so on and so forth. I would train the pastors. And then. Actually my very first book. Is this one, and I wrote this because I wanted to create a training manual for the Uganda's power. And so it's actually an examination of the Lord's Prayer. It's called Power Train. And the first ones to receive this book, I had some classmates in a class I was taking. They got it before the Ugandans did. But if you take those twenty five books out, sixteen thousand of these books were sent to Uganda and given to the Ugandan pastors that I was training. So they would have a training manual after I was done in my time there. But I will tell you that it's a very sad place to go. Right? Okay. I was in the region where Joseph Kony had cut people's arms off and caused some cuts. It turns out they had nothing. But I'll tell you something. I mean, it wasn't what it was. It was the. Hardest place. To be, but it was the most amazing place to be because I saw the Lord intervene with miraculous power over and over. 

Rich Bennett 23:49
Nice. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 23:50
And they had nothing. So they would cry out here in the middle of crying out, you'd see this amazing intervention from God. Wow. So the first time I saw I'll tell you one of those stories. And this is this leads into the healing prayer book that I've. Written. So I was one. Of the guests there, and of course, I was one of the teachers, the instructors, and they did a day class and they had an evening outreach kind of thing. And in the evening outreach it was still equatorial sun. So they had a canopy for people like me who weren't used to it. And there were five or six of us who were under the canopy, and it was right next to the preaching platform. And the very. Very, very. Sick were put right close to the front. Very different from how the Americans, the Canadians, these big televangelist do they put they put the almost better at the front and the very sick at the back. You know that that somebody gets a placebo effect in walks and. You think that they've actually been healed. Yeah, but in fact, they have it. Okay, so let me be clear here. I do believe in the miraculous power of God to intervene. I have seen it over and over and over again. My wife was miraculously healed of muscular dystrophy. And I'll tell that story in conjunction with the Uganda one. But let me tell you how this started. I'm in Uganda. I'm teaching these pastors and I'm participating in this evening outreach and in the front is this lady who's sitting on a dirty board and she's paralyzed. I mean, her hands can't move, Her elbows are locked, her legs are in position. They don't move the board that she was on was filthy. And I watched I was about fifteen feet from this lady and I watched a fly crawl up into her eye and take a drink from the corner of her eye. And she couldn't close her eyelid to bat the thing away. She couldn't touch it. She was very, very, very destitute. Now, there were five or. Six of us in this Kennedy. And there's this preacher is preaching and those other sick people there that she was the worst. Of the bunch. So it was it was. But I was only just a short hop away from her. So I watched her intently. And in Africa, that was the main event for the town. And so you had fifty thousand people at this event. Whoa. And and so, I mean, they were gathered for hours and the worship team would sing and all the travelers would sing and they would dance their prayers as well as sing them. It was really. It wasn't in any way, shape. Or form sexual lots of fun. Especially if the Swahili people saw something, They would take their plastic chairs and put it over their heads and start dancing in circles. I was just it was so fun to watch them worship the Lord at any rate, I was into this canopy and I was looking at this lady. The sun was setting and then the the guy who was. Preaching this bishop guy who organized our gathering says, Oh, the healing anointing is on me. And he. Walked down the platform over to where that lady. Was and her hand was stuck in the air. He tapped her. Hand and then went back to the platform to finish his message. She began to move. Her body began to move. I had been watching her for hours and I watched her start to her shoulders started to move, and then her fingers began to open and closed. Now, there was a lady from Uganda who was there. Her name was Elizabeth Queen. We teased your pick. Call your Queen Elizabeth. 

Anyway, after. So we're so she goes over to this lady and she starts to kneel down beside her. She starts to pray. She takes the lady by the hand, sits her up. Now, she's not been able to bat her eyelash with a fly, and she stands her up and she starts walking like she has stumps. Four legs, and then her shoulders get limber, then her legs get limber. And within fifteen. Twenty minutes, that lady was running across the field, completely restored from her paralysis. It was most emotion. Yes. It was incredible to watch. And if I had not seen that fly go. In her eye, I would have thought that she was, you know, bluffing. 

Rich Bennett 27:27
Faking it, Right? 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 27:28
Yeah. This this was not a fake job. It was just absolutely true. And then that night. There were about fifteen of those kinds of humans. That was the most miraculous of the bunch. So anyway. Wow. Now, so this came back to my church in Canada. So this is the story of my wife's healing. So my wife, her. Sister, her mother and her niece all afflicted with this thing called Faso's computer scapula human, her muscular dystrophy. In fact, there's an American. Yes, that's right. So it's a genetic condition. So now there's the American Connection. The founder of. Lululemon has just come out and said that he has been diagnosed with vascular scapula, human and muscular dystrophy. And the way it's affecting him sounded awfully familiar. First of all, you shuffle with your feet, your face sags, you lose your facial muscles first. So this is this kind of a strange little thing. You can't whistle because you lose the muscles around your mouth. Then it goes down into your shoulders and your shoulder blades go out of position. You start to feel chronic pain between sixteen and twenty. And if you damage a muscle, you lose it. And the interior core in your abdominal region hollows out because your muscles atrophy. So you wind up in a wheelchair. You don't die young. 

Rich Bennett 28:35
Right? 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 28:35
But you die in a wheelchair. And so my wife's mother lived to be eighty five, but she died in a wheelchair. My wife, my sister, who's ten years older, is in a wheelchair now, and her daughter is moving toward rapidly having to use one. And my wife began walking with canes and was losing her ability to function. And of course, the bishop from this thing in Africa had not a clue. I didn't tell him. Right, right. So so. My church, we spent about a half a million. Bucks helping those pastors. There were seven hundred and fifty to a thousand of them. We fed them, we educated them, we gave them books, we gave them pencils and pens and writing and so on. And we stopped. For some cases, we transported them to be able to come and had a place to stay. So it was a lot of money and we did that for three years. So the grand total was about half a million bucks. So my board said, you know, bring the guy in. I said, Oh. Man, he's an African tribal. You sure you want. To do that? And they said, Yes. So here's what I said. Listen, he acts like an African tribe. Well, he's the head of the tribe, you know, And so he barks, orders and people have. To obey him. And they said. He's the anointed. I said, Yeah, yes. I said, Well, why don't you get up in front of the church for three weeks. And warn the church that he's an African tribal. Have him come and preach? So I did for three weeks I said, Oh, by the way, his costumes are different. He belongs to a tribal society. In that culture, polygamy is practiced. He's not a polygamist, but he doesn't he doesn't condemn this. He barks orders at females and gets lot the shiny shoes and all those kinds of things. So just put up with this. He's got a message to tell us. And so they all swallowed and. Nodded their heads. And he comes into this into this meeting. And he's a preacher. We had three services on a weekend. We had a Saturday night and it was a small. Crowd, but it was, you know, always regular, constant and. Sunday morning at nine. And that was what I call the conservative crowd. And we had the eleven o'clock. Everybody wave their hands, a dance, that kind of thing. So we had we had three. Very different constituencies, but they all were funding this thing. And he was telling war the deliverance from death. War stories because Idi Amin and Joseph Kony had ravaged the country. And so. All these pastors and. Leaders were praying and he was telling these amazing stories about somebody's life being barely spared your kind of thing. And it's a very exciting thing. And so the Saturday nighters, they all texted their friends and said, we're coming to Saturday morning and not Sunday morning at nine. You come to so their friends can get this oversized crowd at the nine o'clock and all the nine o'clock hours. Plus the extras wanted to hear more. So they came to the eleven and it was jammed. We're talking jammed all the way along the walls and into the back and way to the overflow. And we had to put sound speakers into the lobby, you. Know, so that. People could hear this thing. You really couldn't see it. Standing room only. I have to sit on the steps where the kids usually. Sat for the kids story next to the pulpit because there were. No chairs. Right. And they were up and down the aisles all along. The fire marshal. Would it would just shut us down. We were told it. 

Rich Bennett 31:28
Was probably in the. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 31:28
Crowd. Well, he might have been, I don't know. But anyway, my wife is two rows from the. Front in the spot that we always set. But I couldn't sit there because there was just no room. Right. Anyway, this guy starts preaching, he's telling these. Amazing stories, and then he stops partway in the middle. Of a story about somebody whose life was going to get finished. And before he finishes the sentence, he looks at me and he speaks to this Ugandan accent and he says this in this thick kind of sound. David gave it. What is m a just like that? I said. M a master of arts. I don't know that. He said, Oh, no, I've got something wrong, I've got something wrong. And he put his head in the pulpit. And he prayed and the whole church was waiting for him to finish the war story. And it felt like a very long time, right? Probably about a minute. And then he looked down, put his head up, and he looked. At me and he said, it's a wasting muscle disease. It starts in your head. It goes down into your face and your muscles sag, your shoulder blades go out of position, you get a curve in your spine. You start having chronic pain between sixteen and twenty. When you damage a muscle, you lose it forever and you wind up in a wheelchair. You don't die young, but you die afflicted. And he gave a perfect medical description from my wife's f age muscular dystrophy while she was sitting right there. Then he said this. Whoever has this now, by the way, I will tell you, tell you to look for it. So her sisters, her mom and her niece and her have not been able to raise their hands higher than their shoulders. Now, in this case with my wife, she couldn't walk up and down stairs anymore. She had to lift her leg to get there and then balance and go up the stairs and so on. And so I'm looking at her. And when she would worship God, she would raise your hands only just like with your elbows up. That's as high as she could get. And she's sitting there and I'm watching her. And he says, Whoever has this, Jesus has just healed you. And I watch my wife's arms go above her head for the first time in more than twenty years. 

Rich Bennett 33:35
While. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 33:36
I and of course, her friends are sitting with us. Some of them have cleaned our house because my wife was unable to move the furniture to get the vacuuming done there. Sit back and we realize she's been hailed. 

And so we had company who'd come to listen to this man because they wanted to know if they should travel to the part of the build project or the evangelism prejudice. Right. And they had X Room. And so they were staying with us. And and so the plan was we would go home and I would go on the top shelves and bring down the big pots and pans that we don't ordinarily use. So she could cook the big meal. She pushed me out of the way, climbed up the steps, took down the pots and pans herself. 

Rich Bennett 34:19
You had to you had to have tears in your own tears. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 34:22
Tears of joy. No, no. What it was was absolute astonishment. Yeah. I am sure my drought, my job was on the floor because I've been praying about her for twenty years. And we'd stop. We'd given up. We given up because there was no improvement and, you know, there'd be a little minor help and then it would go back again. And and this, this incredible kind of thing happened. So. So actually, I really knew that she was healed a week later. So I have a son and a daughter. And in those days, my son was about sixteen, seventeen. My daughter is five years younger. She's sitting at the breakfast table, one more about a week out. And she's usually very. Sweet and very kind. And she decided to push all of her brother's buttons. She knew every emotional switch to push. She would given him one very, very, very bad time. And, you know, we're trying gently to. Director, she's not listening. She's not listening. And I was just beginning to say I got to discipline my daughter when my wife, who is very patient, had enough and she. Stood up and she stopped foot and she said, Jessica, that's enough. And she stopped her foot and she grabbed her by the head and she raised her up the stairs and got down by her bedside, made her make her bed, made her pick up her toys, got her in the bathroom, made her brush your teeth and wash your face, race her down the stairs, got her in the car, drove her to school. And we were so mad at Jessica Shotgun took us three hours to realize my wife had. Run up the stairs. 

She hadn't run up the stairs since she was a girl. Oh, wow. And then we knew this was done a a and so our doctor had been our doctor at that point for five years. He watched her. He'd been treating her symptoms for five years. And after three years, he wrote the medical note saying that all traces of muscular dystrophy were gone from her. 

Rich Bennett 36:12
But really? 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 36:13
Yes, really. So those kinds of stories behind why I wrote this book, Healing Prayer. God's Idea for Restoring Body, Mind and Spirit. So stories like that are in this book. Now, I will tell you, I'm not one of these guys who says everybody's going to be healed, right? I'm one of these guys who believes that there is this, that sometimes God guides you in a pathway to a remedy. Sometimes God does the instant heal, and sometimes you bury long with suffering. You don't know why, and sometimes people die because it's their time, right. And I don't think there's any compromise in saying that. All four of those plus natural healing, let me. Tell you this. I think natural. Healing is a miracle. I'll tell you why. When my wife damaged a muscle, it wouldn't recover. And after she was healed. Every time she damaged a muscle, the muscle tissue grew back 

every time. So, listen, your body's natural recuperative powers is also a miracle. And if you don't have it and it's given back to you, you know, So I named Five Pathways. It's a co-write with another author. The other author is a famous writer. His name is Maxie Dunham. He's written all, I think fifty books and he was the head of asparagus. Yes, it's well, he was the head of the upper room publishing house. Okay. So so he he wrote books and encouraged other writers. And then he. Co-Wrote this one with me is the first co-write he's done. He's now eighty nine years of age. I talked to him last night. He's a good man. We talk and we pray. We met by miracle. It was amazing thing. And this is. He believes this is his. Final work. He does. So we wrote this book and he has a story of miraculous healing. And what he did, he named these five pathways. To a. Remedy. So the first. Is the instant heal. The second is natural healing. The third is is pathway to a remedy. The fourth is bearing with suffering for unknown reasons, and the fifth is the miraculous crossing. And all five of those intertwine. And every life there are seasons where you're given an endowment and you get a partial healing. Sometimes you get pathway to a remedy. In the middle of taking your medicine, you get an instant heal. Then sometimes you're in the middle of something and you're suffering for a season and you don't know why. And you ask or you don't have an answer, right? But God in holy mysteries reshaping you through that. And then there comes a time, a time when your life is done, your purpose is accomplished, and then you go to be with God. So those five pathways are named in the book, and we open up how churches can train people to be aware of how the power of the Lord moves. So you can cooperate with that. 

Rich Bennett 38:44
Now, are these books in audio form as well? 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 38:47
Yes, that actually the healing the healing prayer book. Yes, it is. So there's an audio book on Amazon and there's an e-book and there's a trade paperback. And next week we're talking Monday. Next week I am going to be in Jackson, Mississippi, recording fifteen videos. And the videos will be ten minutes each. And they'll be used for each of the fifteen chapters in that book so the churches can purchase a package to train their churches about how to enter into this ministry called Prayer for Healing. So this will be available in April. Like we're very, very soon. They're going to get it done next week and then they're going to edit the edited and, you know, make it professional and so on. 

Rich Bennett 39:19
So right. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 39:20
Make sure that the soundtrack is on and so on, so forth. But I will be recording it next week in video, capturing and audio captured. 

Rich Bennett 39:26
Great. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 39:27
So this will be a large comprehensive thing. It's not just going to be like, here's a book, it's here's a book, here's a video, here's the audio book, if you want that. And by the way, here's the trade paperback and here's here's the training videos. And you can use this and it's not expensive. I'm not sure what journey wise, the company that I'm working with is called Journey Wise. They're the ones who are doing the videos. And the company that has published the book is called Whittaker House, and they have an arrangement with Jerry Wise. 

Rich Bennett 39:51
Okay. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 39:52
So they're going to put together some sort of a package to market it. I'm not sure how they'll do that. But if you want to just buy the audio book, you can just go on Amazon and click and there you got it. So it's available on Kindle, it's available in trade. Paperback, it's available in an audio, it's available in with this, with this video thing. So there you go. 

Rich Bennett 40:10
So when it comes to praying. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 40:12
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 40:14
And I 

try to figure out how to phrase this, 

do you find that people don't know how to pray? 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 40:28
Absolutely right. I didn't know how to pray. 

So, you know, I'll tell you why I'm blessed to work with Maxy Dunn. I'll tell you. Why. His book, The Workbook of Living Prayer, taught. Me how to pray. Okay, so this is the book that did it. And it was a nineteen seventy four book that got republished in ninety four. Wow. I got a hold of a copy. And in eighty three, that's when I started. I was already a pastor and I was trying my. Best to pray. But I'll tell you something, nobody had sat me down. And said, By the way, when you want to pray, you want to consider this approach. This book is designed to be a workbook. It's designed to here's what they here's what the genius of the book. It's not so much the. Teaching because it's pretty standard teaching about how you pray that it's it's the framework. So he has he has a weekly assignment and he has seven days a week and there's three or four paragraphs of teaching. And there's a scripture passage in italics so that you see it as soon as you open the book, there's a reflecting and recording section and there's a during the day church. Then there's a weekly study. Oh, and so what he did with this book was to mentor me and all the others. This is a million seller and it's been published, I think in seventeen languages. It's around the planet. So this is a very famous book. And so when I met Max, I was astonished because he's I'd read seven or eight of these books when I met him, and it was an amazing thing. And so we put together this resource not because we thought it was kind of nice. We did it because we wanted to train churches in how to do specifically prayer for healing. But okay, so let me talk about how I learned about prayer. Really? That's a funny story. It's a this is Larry's. So this. Goes back when. I was a single guy. I hadn't met my wife yet, and I'm at seminary and in the seminary, it was kind of a mixed thing. There were some faculty who were what I call conservative evangelicals, and there were some who were quite, quite what they call it progressive. Now, I'm not sure what the. Right one was, supernatural. Ish, one was anti supernatural. And so I'd go into some classes and. I would say, you know, Oh, by the way, you know, Jesus did those miracles. And the prophets say, Oh, no, he didn't. That's all mythology is just there to help us to get a moral lesson. Anyway. So I would defend the scripture. That's what I would do in the class and in the class there was a guy who could have been a standup comic. The guy was. Hilarious, and if he'd. Look at you. Sideways, the room would laugh. I mean, this he had this. He had the. Jack Benny ability. To make you laugh without saying. Oh, wow. And he had this caustic kind. Of humor that would make the room explode in laughter. Anyway, he'd been a radio. Commentator and he was one of these live radio guys. And so he was often using humor to MIT to get his audience expanded and so on. He'd practiced for. Years, and then he felt called to the ministry. So I'm in this class with. Him and I'm in the same cohort the same year, and there's about thirty five of us in this cohort. And I see something defending the scripture, and this guy looks at the room, everybody starts. To laugh and. Then he cracks a joke and the entire room explodes with just absolutely hilarious laughter. We're laughing so hard. We're crying. The trouble was, I was the object of the humor. 

Rich Bennett 43:27
Oh. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 43:27
And so I thought, okay, that's once. Maybe I'll pass this off and we'll go to the next one. So of course, I'm in three, three of my five classes with that cohort. So go to the next class. I again, I defend the Scripture and again he tells the joke and again, I'm the object of the humor. In other words, if you believe that your brain dead fundamentalist, you get your head is not screwed, you screwed on sideways. And you know the best that you can do is be nice. So anyway, you know, and so this so this goes on for some weeks. And after a month. Or two of this, I just said to myself. Well, it's very clear we're not going to be friends. So I keep my guard up. And that was around it, you know. But we had a mutual friend. I called her Susie in the. Book, and he had a lovely wife and a lovely wife was gentle and sweet and Susie was very nice, etc.. I remember one day I was walking across the plaza, there was six or seven. Campuses for theological seminaries, and one of them taught Greek. And I was on my way to that Greek class. And this girl. Says, Excuse me, is it David? How are you doing? I said, Oh, Susie, I'm fine. How about you? She said, Good. Now you have to know something. That girl was. Sweet. She was a kind, other centered, warm, loving human being. If you were ever in trouble, she was. One of those do unto others as you would have them do, whether you were totally sincere. Anyway. So I'm I'm. I'm saying hello to her and she's saying hello to me. And then she said, Oh. You know, the comic from the class. He said, Yeah. She said, When you see that hospital six blocks down the road he said yeah. He said, she said. He's in there now listen Rich, I didn't feel bad. I was, I, I had to repent of my stinking lousy attitude. And then I said, What's up? And she said, He's very sick. And those are my attitude. She says, What's wrong? She said, he's. Got a clot in his arm. It's called phlebitis. And if the clot in his arm breaks free and travels through his bloodstream, it could land in his lung or his brain. And ninety five times out of one hundred, it'll kill you. I mean, that's serious. Yeah. And I said, Oh, he's got phlebitis. And she said, Yes. I said, Is he getting good care? She yeah, he's in the hospital just down the road. It was a university campus. It was the university hospital so easy to get to. 

Rich Bennett 45:31
Right. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 45:32
And so I said, okay, well I'm glad he's getting good Care to. Wait a minute. He asked me to ask you something. I said, Really? What did you want? She said. He wants you to come and pray for his healing. I said, No, no, no, I'm not go. I'm not going, you know, And, you know, I kicked up a fuss. I don't know what I said, but I said, I'm not going to talk to him, that kind of thing. And she said, Why not? I said, Because he's been cruel and he's made me a mockery. To our peers. And she stopped and she said, Yeah, he has been cruel. I'll go talk to him. I said, Well, I'm not going. It's the way she went. And the next day I'm in the coffee lounge and this girl, Susie walks up to me and she says, I talked to her friend. I said, Okay, Is he okay? She said, No, he's not. He's got phlebitis, it's serious, but he wants you to come pray for him. Now, listen. 

Rich Bennett 46:21
He wasn't giving up. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 46:22
No, no. I had three. Reasons for saying no. Number one, he mocked me and I was hurt by this. But secondly, I had never met. Anybody healed by this thing called the prayer of Faith. And thirdly, I had no. Training. In doing this. And so I'd only seen the crazies on television slapping people on the forehead and screaming, you know. That's right. I don't think that's a helpful model. 

Rich Bennett 46:45
Said he may slap you back now. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 46:49
Exactly. They're bigger than you. So so here's the end of the story. So. So I said, I'm not going. She said, Why not? I said, because I don't know if he's sincere. I just thought that was my. Reason for her. Right? I didn't tell her I had no training. Anyway, I went to. To my class the next day crossing the plaza and she sees me crossing the plaza says, Hello, Dana. How you doing? I said, Fine. She said, You go and see your friend. I said, I'm not going. And oh, man. This nice, sweet, kind, gentle girl got flaming angry. She just it was like being told off. By your mother. Her eyes became flames of fire, you know, she stopped her foot and she used my full name with the middle initial. 

Rich Bennett 47:25
David Oh, you're in trouble. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 47:27
Aren't you? Going around the school telling everybody the Bible's the word of God that's supposed to be obeyed? And I said Yes. And she said, Well, what about this scripture? I was sick and you visited me. Are you going to go like that? Oh, no. I'm going to see the guy. I'm going to have to obey that scripture because I believe the Bible. So I went to my class. Finished my class, and with great reluctance, I walked the six blocks. I came into that hospital and I walked into his room. He was pale and scared. You could see that he and he was wired up to wires and monitors and there was an intravenous to putting some stuff in his system. And he was it wasn't good. Now, here's what I did not you remember I have three figures. He's going to mock me. I have no training. I've never seen so what? So? So I talked to him about the weather. So he said, Yeah, nice weather. And I talked to one person. That's right. And then he said, Oh yeah, I know, I do it. Okay. And I said, Well, look, I'm glad you're getting good care. I'm going to go now. I visited you and he stopped me and he said, Wait, aren't you going to pray? And I looked at him and I said, I. Have to clear the air here every single time I have said anything about the Bible being true, or if I've talked about the healing miracles of Jesus or the bodily resurrection. Or anything like that. Any time I've said anything about the Bible being true, you have made me a laughingstock to our peers. Why? When it's clear that you don't believe in this, do you want me to pray for your healing and the man burst into tears crying. He's twenty seven and he's scared. You can see this after in the Middle East. Hacking sobs, He says, I am so sorry I did that to you. But you're the only guy I know who believes that every word in that book is true. Won't you please pray for God to heal me? You're the only guy I know who believes it to be true. And you know, what are you going to do? I mean, he's obviously sincere. Yeah, I still didn't know if I could trust it, but as far as I could tell, he was sincere. But I still had not a. Clue what to do. So. So what I remembered in the Bible did Jesus put. His hands on people when he prayed for them? And so I said, Well. Can I come round? Put my hand. Over the spot? He said, Yeah. I said, Where is it? He said, Left arm above my elbow. So I go over. His left side. Put my hand on his, on his arm, put my other hand on his head. And then rich, I prayed a prayer. And to this day I can't remember what I said. It was a pretty stumbling, bumbling, mumbling prayer. It was honest. I was praying something like, Oh God, make this guy Well, I don't remember what I said. And here is the moment that forever changed my life. As I began to pray for this guy, a fiery presence filled the air. It was just like this. Like it was inhaling compassion. The room. Changed. He felt it and I felt it. Something powerful and holy was happening. And I didn't know. I didn't have words to describe it. And suddenly this fiery presence came inside of me and grew larger and larger. And it was a combination of fire and focus and compassion and and faith. And I knew that this man was the object of God's love, and the Lord wanted him. Well, I just knew it in my bones. And as I was praying, the fire rose up inside of me, went down my arm, went into his arm, and then he said, What is that fiery presence flowing into my arm? I said, That's the spirit of Jesus. He's making you will. And then I ran. Out of the room because because I had never felt anything like that before, never felt anything like it. I was terrified. Or maybe astonished is a better word. I wasn't afraid. I was astonished because I. I didn't know when it was going to happen. When I prayed, I didn't know was going to mock me. I didn't know was going to. Be help and. Not to help. And this thing happens and I run out. And then the next day he's in school. 

Rich Bennett 51:31
No way. I said. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 51:33
You're here. He said, I am. And he put me into a corner and he looked in all directions and then he said that prayer changed my life. I said, Thank you. And I ran away again. 

Then the next class that he was in was me. I said something to defend the Scripture. And he stood up to tell his joke and everybody was waiting. And he made fun of the people who didn't believe what was true. And then. Every time I was in. A class with him for the remainder of the term, every single time, he defended my faith. Now we come to that. 

Rich Bennett 52:17
I'm a believer. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 52:18
Yeah. So I'll just tell you what this is. That story I just told you is the. First story in the Healing Prayer book. But I'll tell you the end of the story because it's important. So here's what happened. I get to I get to Mike. We had to do Summerfield. We had to go for four months. We go eight months to school. And that four months under the tutelage of the pastor. And they would walk you through the things that a pastor would do. You go to a board meeting, you go, you visit somebody in the hospital, you just did a wedding, those kinds of things. Anyway, I did this all summer. I had a fabulous time. But just before I left, he put his phone number in my hand. And he said, If you're in. Trouble, you. Call me. I said, okay, 

but I had no trouble. 

Rich Bennett 52:56
You need take you take the number and run away. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 52:58
Right? So I do. I said thank you and took the number and I saw him in the fall when he got back to school and he reached over, said, You didn't call me. I said, It's going to be trouble. He said, If you're in trouble, you call, me. I said, okay. So anyway, here's what happens. I wind up that there's a party two months in and I'm standing. I go over to say hello, and there's his wife and there's him, and there's this girl who's standing beside Susie who had to admit they were all right. And so I'm saying. Hello and I'm talking about nothing, you know, because that's you do the party and the two girls start giving in the elbow. And they said, You got to tell Chukotka what happened. Tell Chukotka what happened. You said, Oh, I want to tell Jodka what happened. So eventually he did. So right after I. Prayed and raced out of the room and he walked in and he said to the nurse, I can go home now. My friend from the Bible school came and prayed and Jesus is healed me. And she said, We don't do that around here. We got to run some tests. He said, Run them that. And she said, Well, I'm just coming to get you your do. So they wheeled down the hall. They checked him out. There wasn't a trace of phlebitis in his body while it was all gone. And so that night he went home and he and his wife picked him up. Of course, they're very thankful. They're very, very thankful. They kneel beside their bed and they pray a prayer of Thanksgiving to God. And then they go to sleep. And he has a dream in the night. And in the dream he sensed I don't know how he heard it. He sensed this voice, spoke to him. It was God saying, My servant David defends the integrity of my word. And no one stands with him. When he speaks for my word. Defending. 

And he did right through to the close. Of my. Time. So he tells this story. He starts crying. The two girls start crying. I start crying, and then he says. The only time I ever get a phone call from God, it's for you. He said. 

So 

that that moment started me. On an adventure of learning. I began to read about this. I began to study it from the scriptures. I began to write notes and journal, and I kept up that practice all through decades. And then when I met Maxie Dunham, the co-writer of my book here, he had produced a brochure and I produced a little brochure. We put the two together, made a little book. Nobody wanted it because it was only twenty pages. So anyway, in the course of time I went into this ministry that I'm currently doing, and I called up Maxie, my friend, and I said, Why don't we expand that, make it a little book and I'll learn how to publish on Amazon. And so we did, and I learned how to publish on Amazon because it's not expensive, just do it. And then the Whittaker House, the company that wanted the book, called us and asked us to expand the book and they would publish it as a as a professional book and so on. And they paid all the freight, their paying, they paid for the audiobook because that's expensive to get. Still you have to read into it. And so anyway, the bottom line is that's. That's how healing prayer started. In my. Life. 

Rich Bennett 56:03
Do you still keep in touch with him? 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 56:05
He still is. I join a different denomination. For lots of reasons. There's lots of that. He found me on the thirtieth anniversary of his healing. 

Rich Bennett 56:13
Okay. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 56:14
He sent me. An email and he said the med team was really mad at me when I said Jesus healed me. And then they were astonished when I was well. And so he said, Thank you, thank you. He's retired now, thanking me that you prayed with me. I have been well, I now I have three children. My two daughters are married and having grandkids. I'm alive. Thank you. That you did that. 

Rich Bennett 56:37
Wow. That that's. I first of all, that's amazing. But at the same time, I got to laugh because you just kept from the way. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 56:50
I did because I didn't know what I was doing. I was an incompetent idiot. 

I had not if I had a clue, it was lonely. I mean, I had no knowledge. And here's the truth. Here's the issue. Now, you said this earlier. People aren't trained to pray. People aren't trained to pray for healing. Mm. And so they come up with crazy ideas. Oh, everybody's going to get healed and somebody. Dies and they lose your faith. Nobody's going to get healed. Somebody gets healed, embarrasses their faith. We've got to pray for the doctors. Okay, that's fine. But does God directly intervene? No. God doesn't do that anymore. Oh, God always does it. And there's all these crazy theories out there, right? Yeah. And it's because there's not been what I call horse sense applied to the biblical text. And you need to sit down with the scripture and learn the. Principles that are in the material. And actually, if I was to encourage. People, I would tell you to read the book and get the videos because I'm going to be there is to be released in April. Bottom line. Is we're trying not just to say, Oh, by the. Way, this is real. We're trying to say, oh, by the way, it's real and. Here's how you do it. It's designed to be a training tool so that churches or individuals who are in churches can learn how to do this in a sensitive manner that's not going to make somebody weaker or struggle. So, yeah, that's why we wrote the book. 

Rich Bennett 58:02
Now, where can people besides Amazon, where can you find the book? Because you also have you correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you do also Bible classes? 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 58:11
Yes, I do. I got five. Books. I teach zoom classes, I do conference. 

Rich Bennett 58:15
Okay. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 58:15
And if people want me to come to their church. I'm more than. Happy to do. 

Rich Bennett 58:19
It. So you travel the world. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 58:21
I do it. No, this is what I do for a living now. So this is. This is what? This is how I make my living. So people want me to come to their church. You go to the website and the website is triple W dot spirit like in Holy Spirit, equipped like an equipment spirit equipped. Com because I equip people in the spirit. That's my goal. 

Rich Bennett 58:38
So that's equipment you can have. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 58:40
That's it. And so. That the books are available you can see on. The website how to access the books. I have five books out and if you want to sign up for a course you can, you can just click on the events and teach you things. And if you want me to come to do a conference, you just click on the conferences events and you can fill out a form to invite me. We'll look at our calendars and try and figure out how to do that. I like. To do three day. Events and to follow the three day events by a process of six weeks of teaching. The secret sauce is not just to have a conference because when you go to a conference, you get excited, you get you read all these notes down and your buddies haven't got a clue what you're talking about. So you put the thing on the shelf and nothing happens. 

Rich Bennett 59:18
But if you forget. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 59:20
Yeah, bottom line, your cheaters will. Come and they'll remember ten percent. 

Rich Bennett 59:24
Yeah. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 59:24
And so what you do is you do an event. And that generates the interest in the topic. And then immediately on the Sunday afternoon you launch your course and then you give people small steps over the week of of learning so that by the time they come to the end of the week, they have absorbed some of the teaching that's in your resource. And then you talk with your friends about this and watch a video. You do that for six weeks. You remember eighty percent that way. That's that's the goal. 

Rich Bennett 59:48
You say you're going to be in Mississippi next week. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 59:51
I will be in Mississippi on Monday and Tuesday recording. And then I went. 

Rich Bennett 59:54
I left New Orleans too soon, didn't I? 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 59:57
Yes, you did. 

I did go to my website. So I have a Facebook page. I got a I got a YouTube channel. I do weekly sermons, and so I record them and then. They're broadcast on the local television stations and I put them on YouTube. So if people want to watch to hear my messages, you can go to YouTube. There's no charge for that. It's something you can do if you want to sign up for a course, you get personal attention. I usually charge like seventy five bucks or one hundred bucks, depending on the course fit to sign up. And then this is a cohort with other people from across the world. In fact, one time I had a cohort with people from Australia, India, the United States, Canada, England, Nigeria and the Czech Republic all the time on a Zoom class. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:40
I bet that was interesting. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:00:41
Yeah. No, it was hard for the. Ones in Europe because the time was late. Yeah, but there was a retired lady who didn't care, right? And so she was to stay up till one in the morning to get on the class. But for the rest. Of them, the time zones were manageable. And the Australian ones, our Monday night was their Tuesday morning. And so it didn't, it didn't hurt them to do that. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:00
Did you ask did you ask them what was going to happen today since they were already to do that? 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:01:05
No, I didn't do that. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:08
I mean the lottery players. Yeah. Does it work that way? 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:01:11
Unfortunately, yes. Your life in Australia is. Different than life in America. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:15
Oh, yeah. Is there anything you would like to add before I get to my last question? 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:01:20
Well, actually, no, I just want to say this, that. I do believe that the gospel, supernatural and the story I told you about my dad meeting the Lord, I mean, you got to know that's just remarkable. And the story about about people getting healed when you pray for them, I will say this God's desire to communicate with us is greater than our desire to hear him. And so you don't have to worry about not getting it right the first time. If you don't get it right the first time, the Lord will once again orchestrate the events of your life to speak to you about the things he wants to tell you. And so I wrote another book on listening to the voice of God. And this is that one here. It's called Hey, Are you there? It's me, God, How to Listen to No One God Speaks. And the forward of the book is a guy named Jack Canfield. He wrote Chicken Soup. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:08
Yes. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:02:09
So he read the manuscript? He liked the manuscript. And he wrote the foreword to the book that's only available on Amazon right now. This one. The other one is available wherever books are. So it's he'd go to Barnes and Noble. You can go to you can go to Books-A-Million, you can go to Walmart if you want to, and just order healing prayer and boom, you'll be able to get it on order. And within a few days. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:27
People definitely need that book because I think it correct me if I'm wrong, I think a lot of people believe that God needs to listen to them when they pray, but they're not open in their ears to listen to God. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:02:42
Well, and this is the burden we have. So actually in Scripture. So we've flipped it. We flipped the equation. So in our culture, in Western culture right now, if you say I've heard God, they think you're nuts, 

that's okay. And if you but if you go back, they would call you arrogant. If you said, I'm operating out of an awareness that God has commanded me, they call you Area A in the Scripture. If you operated without hearing God, they would call you arrogant. And so we flip the equation because we live in a culture that is science based rather than faith based. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:16
Right? 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:03:17
In fact, you go to Europe, you know, there's there's bell towers and every little town people would ring the bells for the morning prayer. They would ring the bells for midday prayer. They would ring the bells for evening prayer. And the culture was prayer saturated. That is not true in current culture. And so we don't train people from the time they're little to listen to the voice of God at all. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:36
No. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:03:37
So we have ground to recover. We have to take that ground back. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:39
Yeah. First of all, I want to invite you back on, please, because there's a lot more I know I could talk about with you. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:03:47
Well, let's pick up the hearing God conversation and the next one. I think that would be a helpful. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:50
That's perfect. That's perfect. Yeah. Let's. You still got my link. Let's get that scheduled because I definitely more people need to hear this. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:03:59
I'd be delighted to do it. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:01
But so my last question for you, because do you even know how many podcasts you've been on right now? 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:04:07
I signed up for Pod Match in December and I've been on thirty seven. I can track it. But before that I had. Other things that I have. I've been on television and radio and I've been on gas before. So I don't know. How many I do know. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:18
All right. So what good in this question is perfect. Is there anything that a host has never asked you that you wish they would have asked you? And if so, what would be their question? What would be your answer? 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:04:32
Oh. I've been asked a. Lot of questions. 

Thirty seven podcasts in two months. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:40
If you can't think of one that I got, I got something special. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:04:43
At this moment. Yet you actually you started in the I can't think of a question that I wanted to have asked because you. Really did ask them. You said, how can people learn this? How can we be in touch? Those are the important questions. I try to answer the faith questions in the books, and if I don't cover the ground, then I can refer people to white humor writing. And that's the reason to write. But yeah. Which which should be. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:04
Great. Well, in that case, and this is totally up to you, I've never done this before, but would you mind ending with a prayer for my listeners, for our use, I should say? 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:05:16
I would love to do that. I would do that. So I know. Let me just go to prayer. So, Heavenly Father, I'm aware that right now. There are multiplied thousands of people who are listening to this podcast right now. I know there's a single mom who's got a son who's been in a car accident. There is a dad who's got cancer. He hasn't told his wife yet. There's somebody who's struggling with HIV AIDS and they discover that they that there's this sexual stuff is caught up to them and they're in trouble. There's somebody else who's clinically depressed and doesn't know how to pray. And then. There's the believer who has not had an. Answer because the one they prayed for lost died out and they don't know why. I know there are some who struggle with this whole question of whether even there is a God whose name is love. They don't even know. Like my dad, I want you, Lord Jesus, to meet them right where they are. You are more than able to speak to them and to speak into their hearts and minds, to speak to the wound that has caused them to be heartsick for decades. You can. Intervene with that teenager in the. Car accident. You can intervene with the mom who's praying for her child or her son. You can pray, you can intervene in anything. The same power that raised Jesus from the dead is the power that's at work toward those who believe. And I would pray that those with wounded faith or those with no faith would be able to reach out and know that God has heard their prayer answer them. And for those who are mature and faith who are listening to this podcast and celebrating, I would ask that you would call them to intercede for those who have no faith and that they would stand beside those whose hope has been broken to help them restore that hope. Feel the listeners of this podcast with pleasure in hearing the voice of Jesus, for we ask it in the name that you can't even resist answering, we ask it in the name of your son, Jesus. Amen. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:15
Amen. Thank you so much. I, I really appreciate it. And I know my listeners do as well. And even that, you know what? Even though we can. You're in Canada. I'm here. 

I can feel that. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:07:33
The presence. Yes, yes. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:35
Yes. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:07:35
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:35
It was genuine. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:07:37
It Listen, I pray from the heart. I will tell you, I have had Zoom classes. When we were stuck because of COVID. Mm. I have a testimony. Of one. Lady. Can I tell you one more story? 

Rich Bennett 1:07:47
Absolutely. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:07:48
Okay. So this lady's name is Shirley. She's a radio broadcaster of the Christian radio station just north of Toronto, in a city called Barrie, sixty thousand listeners. And so she was. She had been my. Parishioner back in the day. She was younger. She was going through a terrible divorce, and I wound up coming alongside that lady and her daughter, given them pastoral care, trying to help them get started again life. That's what I did anyway. In the course of time she became. This radio broadcaster. But just before that happened. COVID hit. And nobody was able. To go anywhere. And she had a terrible bulging disc and she had sciatic pain in her leg. She was unable to walk. I mean, we're talking about unable to walk. And of course, nobody's going. Anywhere because we're not allowed into each other's houses. This is terrible time. And so I offering these Zoom courses, she hears that her old pastor. Dave, is on on a Zoom call. So she signs up and I see Shirley. It's great to see her and we having this great chat. And she's not telling me what's going on in the background. And sometimes she's lying down on. The bed with her head visible and sometimes she just just disappear. And so eventually I said, Shirley, what's going on? And then she eventually told. The class, You know what, Pastor David? No, at class, I'm so sorry. I have such extreme pain. It takes me twenty minutes to go from my bed to that bathroom across. Oh. I can't hardly walk. I've a bulging disc in my back. I'm going to have to have a back fusion, and I've got sciatic pain in my leg and I can hardly move. I can't even sit up. And that's why I'm lying down. And suddenly on the zoom call. There was a lady named Wendy, and Wendy said, I'm feeling a fire in my hand. What is that? I said, That's one of the signals that God sends when he wants to heal someone. And then my whole being filled up with that sense of presence. And I said, Shirley, do you want us to pray for you? And she said, Yes. And there were seven or eight people on this video. And so we all started to pray. And then I did something I've only done three times. In my in all the years I've walked with God. I said, Shirley, in the name of Jesus, stand up and touch your toes. And she jumped up and she touched your toes. Your back went snap and she was healed. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:53
Wow. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:09:53
In front of the class. Now I can send you. The video link to that. And you hear her? Yeah. So that story herself. I'll send you that video link. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:02
Yeah, I'll put that in the show notes and. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:10:04
Then and so right after this, she got that job at the radio station and she actually started with somebody helped around and then the morning show host position came open. And now every day she talks to sixty thousand people. Every morning and she put that story on the radio. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:21
I love it. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:10:21
And so it's over and over. Zoom, You can feel the presence of God over Zoom. Yes, you can. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:26
He's everywhere. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:10:27
Absolutely everywhere. Now, there's two there's two kinds of presence. There's what I call the omnipresence. He's everywhere where you don't feel it, but he's there and there's manifest presence where suddenly you become tangibly aware that the power of God has landed the room. You just felt that that's manifest presence. Listen, I could teach more. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:49
That's all you have to definitely come back all again. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:10:52
Okay. I'll book in with your with your link, and we'll have another conversation. And our next one. Will be about hearing the voice, because I think that's probably the most. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:59
Important. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:11:00
Yes, definitely. How do you know when God's talking to you? I love it when you make up. When does it go? I want is it the radio broadcast from the day before the car that you heard, you know, that kind of thing. Okay, listen, I should go. But it's a delight to meet you, rich and beautiful. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:14
And thank you so much. God bless. Take care. 

Rev. Dr. David Chotka 1:11:16
God bless. We'll see you.