Faith After Trauma: Jessica Morris’ Powerful Testimony

Rich & Wendy 0:00
Hey, everyone is Rich Bennett. Can you believe it? The show is turning ten this year. I am so grateful for each and every one of you who've tuned in, shared an episode, or even joined the conversation over the years. You're the reason that this podcast has grown into what it is today. Together, we shared laughs, tears and moments that truly matter. So I want to thank you for being part of this journey. Let's make the next ten years even better. Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios. Harford County Living presents conversations with Rich Bennett. 

Today, I'm going to get kind. 

No, no, no. The truth is. 

Rich Bennett 1:00
Today on Conversations with Rich Bennett. We have a truly inspiring guest joining us, Jessica morris. Jessica is the author of Higher Powered One Woman's Journey of Personal Eschatology, a powerful book that explores our personal transformation through addiction, trauma and faith. After growing up with an alcoholic, abusive and hypocritical minister father. Jessica turned away from organized religion and found herself trapped in the depths of addiction. But after hitting rock bottom, she began a journey of recovery that led her not just to healing, but to a profound spiritual awakening. Through seminary studies and deep personal reflection, she uncovered what she now calls personal eschatology. The idea that true transformation happens when we die to ourselves and embrace a personal relationship with Jesus. Now Jessica is on a mission to share her journey and help others experience their own spiritual rebirth. And I am honored to have her here today. And this is not going to be the first time you hear from her because she already agreed to come on again. How are you doing, Jessica? 

Jessica Morris 2:11
I'm great. It's wonderful to be here. Rich, Thank you. 

Rich Bennett 2:14
Thank you. Before we get into the book, I have to ask you, what is eschatology? 

Jessica Morris 2:19
Great question, and that's actually getting into the book. It's funny, when I. 

Rich Bennett 2:24
I knew that I was just testing. 

Jessica Morris 2:28
When I when I was in seminary studying it, I told my sit my older sister about it and she she said to me, is that an English word? And, you know, I mean, because very few people have ever heard that word. It's very much a theologians term, let's say a minister's term. But basically what it is, if you break the word down, it means the study of end times. Okay, so 

Rich Bennett 2:58
And time. 

Jessica Morris 2:58
end times. So like, I'll give you some examples that are in the book. There's there are several examples of it. Two are forms of eschatology that are accepted within the theological circles. One that you're probably most familiar with would be apocalyptic eschatology, which is like what the Book of Revelation talks about. It's something that's coming in the future. It's it's like a prophecy. Okay. Then there's also realized eschatology, which is another really very well accepted form within theological circles. If you read the Gospel of John, that's where Jesus often says when he's speaking, the time is now. And that's what realized eschatology would be, which is the end of things is happening right now before your eyes. And in most forms of us, in fact, all the forms of eschatology that I could find when I was researching had to do with messages to the whole world, all of humanity 

Rich Bennett 4:04
hmm. 

Jessica Morris 4:04
at the same time. And what happened to me when I was sitting in, you know, I spent a lot of time seeking in my life 

Rich Bennett 4:12
Right. 

Jessica Morris 4:12
sort of the way I'd been brought up. I was trying to learn everything for myself. I wanted to learn it from my point of view and when I was sitting in Intro to New Testament, so this was like my second class in seminary, and I had, you know, I'd been to Sunday school, I had been I'd heard all these stories before, but I was hearing them and seeing them in a completely different way now. And the professor that I had was very analytical. He was true academic, Ph.D. He wasn't a minister. And so he came at everything from that lens. And he talked a lot about the symbolism, the metaphor, all that that's within the writings and within the teachings of Jesus Christ. And I thought to myself, he was we were talking about revelation. It was towards the end of the semester, and he was talking about all the metaphor and the symbolism that's used in Revelation with all the numbers. There's a lot of numerology in Revelation 

Rich Bennett 5:10
Right. 

Jessica Morris 5:10
and all that. And I thought to myself, and I even wrote it in the margin of my notebook, what if Jesus was being metaphorical when he was talking about his second coming and he actually meant he was going to come just for me? Just 

Rich Bennett 5:28
Oh. 

Jessica Morris 5:28
just for you. It was because everybody talks about how your relationship with Jesus is so personal. So why wouldn't he come back just for me? 

Rich Bennett 5:40
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 5:40
And everything that I know from my travels in the world of recovery from addiction is seeing people. Their entire world is turned upside down when they come into recovery. And if they stay, they very quickly become almost 

unmatched to what they used to be. People who used to know them can hardly recognize them anymore. mean, not just physically, but the way they behave. Everything about them is completely different. And so I thought, why wouldn't it be a personal return just for me? And it took me back to a moment in my life when I was about six. This was about six years before I got into recovery. This all happened in this one afternoon. It was very odd. I had. 

Rich Bennett 6:31
Wow. 

Jessica Morris 6:32
I had that thought in in my class. I wrote it down and then I went over to the library and I had this memory from when it was like I said, it was about six years before I got into recovery and I had gone back to my old alma mater to party. It was like a year after I graduated and I was that. To go back and have a party with the people who are still in college. And I went outside the party. It was very cold sores all by myself to smoke a cigarette and the sky was just so clear. There were, however many millions and gazillions of stars that any physicist can come up with. That's how many stars were shining down at me. And I just started yelling at God. I was yelling at God because I hate in my life. I hate in myself. I didn't understand why everybody else around me was getting married, had great jobs, and here I was working a temp job living with my parents a year after college, coming back and still partying with the people who were there. Like, what a what a waste I was, you know? And so I'm yelling at God. And I had this overwhelming feeling and I didn't look I didn't turn my face to look. But I knew with every fiber of my being that Jesus was standing right next to me on my left. 

Rich Bennett 7:58
Wow. 

Jessica Morris 7:59
And I guess every time I tell the story, I get a chill through my arms like I know he's he's validating it for me right now as I. 

Rich Bennett 8:07
Right. 

Jessica Morris 8:07
He was there because I was calling for him. And, And, you know, in yelling at God, he was like, okay, I'm here. And I chose in that moment and it's important that I say I chose in that moment to run back into the party. It scared me so much that he was standing there as much as I had, like a feeling of warmth and. 

Rich Bennett 8:33
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 8:33
For sort of a millisecond. I then went into this enormous shame and fear and I couldn't look him in the face. And so I turn and I ran back into the party. And those six years between that moment and when I got into recovery were hell. It was absolute living hell on earth, as they would say, or as Jesus would say in the Gospels, that if you, you know, I'm going to come back and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth for those who do not follow. 

Rich Bennett 9:13
Right. 

Jessica Morris 9:13
Well, that's exactly what happened to me. Those six years were the most lonely, depressed, hopeless, helpless, powerless. I mean, I can't even tell you all the words that fill those six years. It was horrible. Absolutely horrible. And I and so when I had that memory, I was like, he did come back for me. He came back directly for me. And I turned my face from him. And I became so ashamed and and horrified in that moment, remembering that I remember I was sitting in the library and I just I was so horrified. And it's taken me years to get to the place where I don't regret that moment anymore. Because for a long. 

Rich Bennett 9:59
Right. 

Jessica Morris 9:59
Really regretted it. But what I've come to realize is that those six years needed to happen in order to get me to the plate. You can see a lot of things in hindsight, right? So as I look back on it, they needed to happen in order to get me to move to the town in which I found recovery. The town in which I found the councillor or was I should say I found I didn't really find anything I was led to by other people. Led to recovery, led to the councillor who was able to help me with the trauma of my childhood and to overcome those things. And also without ever saying the name of Jesus that councillor showed me the love of Jesus like I had never. 

Rich Bennett 10:48
Really? 

Jessica Morris 10:49
In my life before and to this day. And he's in heaven now, that counselor. And to this day, I know I'm God wanted me in this town to meet that man because it just there's it's a lot of it's in the book. A lot of what I talk. 

Rich Bennett 11:06
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 11:06
It's in the book. But it was amazing to work with him, and I needed to be at a place where I was so desperate. So desperate that I was ready to just go. Okay, fine. Whatever. If you tell me to do it, I'll do it. If you say, I'll feel better. I don't care, because I'm tired of feeling like crap. And so that's a really, really long answer to what is eschatology. But that's basically how I came to this idea of it being a personal thing. 

Rich Bennett 11:39
Right. 

Jessica Morris 11:40
Sara Lee. Yeah, not necessarily something for all the world to experience at once. Now, I'm not saying that's not true or those ideas may not be realities at some point. I'm just 

Rich Bennett 11:52
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 11:52
saying this is like sort of a both and situation where Jesus is coming back and saying, this is the time. Now I'm ready to take you and I believe you're ready, you know? And so he he went when I turned and ran from him because I could not look him in the face. He what he did for me through my recovery community is he just kept coming to me through the people in recovery until I was able to look him directly in the face. 

It was absolutely like in hindsight, I can see all of this at the time I had. 

Rich Bennett 12:30
Yeah, you could. 

Jessica Morris 12:31
I had no idea what was going on. I just knew I loved these people. 

Rich Bennett 12:35
Right. 

Jessica Morris 12:36
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 12:37
God, then that is 

good. The good thing is you got out of town because. When it comes. Well, it's here. So because I'm talking to other people in recovery, a lot of them. 

Go to a different town, even a different state, in order to succeed in recovery. Because what happens if you do it? Where you're at? Where you from? Where it all started? You're right back in the same boat again. 

Jessica Morris 13:05
Yeah, it can. 

Rich Bennett 13:07
Wow. 

Jessica Morris 13:07
In work. It can work. 

Rich Bennett 13:09
It can. 

Jessica Morris 13:09
It really was what happened. I think what happened to me when I moved is that because I was about a year and the end of my recovery was in the town where I live now, which is where the end of my addiction was, in the town where I found recovery. And it was about a year, and that's where I met the counselor. Not the one I was just talking about, but the counselor that I saw for about a year prior to recovery. And she actually sent me to recovery. 

Rich Bennett 13:41
Oh, 

Jessica Morris 13:41
She said to me after a year of me giving her $90 a week, you know, she said, you know, I really think you need to deal with this food addiction before any of this trauma stuff we work on is ever going to take hold because the food is in your way. It's in the way of anything you're going to receive from God or anything you're going to receive from me. And until you get that piece under control, because that was my very first addiction, 

Rich Bennett 14:12
yeah. 

Jessica Morris 14:12
she's like, nothing is going to take. And she was absolutely right. It was in the way of everything in my life. Everything. 

Rich Bennett 14:21
Okay. So with that person that really helped you in recovery in the other town you said is in heaven now. 

Jessica Morris 14:28
Yes. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 14:30
Do you feel that that may have been Jesus himself? 

Jessica Morris 14:33
Well, yes, I do believe that Jesus in Jesus incarnate is in all. 

Rich Bennett 14:38
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 14:39
Absolutely. And when we are willing I it's funny because back then I used to call that guy my channel my channel to God. 

Rich Bennett 14:48
Okay? 

Jessica Morris 14:49
And and that's what I believe Jesus does with us. He's when we allow the room, when we allow the room within ourselves, which means we need to clear out all this crap that is that 

Rich Bennett 15:03
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 15:03
that is getting in the way, whether it's childhood trauma, addiction, ego, you know, enormous ego, whatever it is. We've got to say, you know what? I'm going to give that up, that thing, you know, because a lot of people and I was one of them, like to hold on to that victim identity. know, we you know, I'm like this because my dad was an alcoholic. I mean, I could when I was in college, I had a way to rationalize a hangnail that I had out of. Somehow my dad made it happen because he was an. 

Rich Bennett 15:36
Why? 

Jessica Morris 15:37
I was just really good at making everything his fault. 

Rich Bennett 15:41
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 15:42
And it's like, no, that's no, it's time to take responsibility for myself, for I'm I'm a grown up, you know, And it's time for me to say, do I want to remain a victim the rest of my life, or do I want to actually live my life? 

Rich Bennett 15:57
Yeah. Be cleansed. 

Jessica Morris 15:59
Exactly. 

Rich Bennett 16:00
We all need a good. We all need. 

Jessica Morris 16:03
Yes, we do. 

Rich Bennett 16:04
Oh, 

Jessica Morris 16:04
And. 

Rich Bennett 16:05
and. 

Jessica Morris 16:06
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 16:06
What's. 

Jessica Morris 16:07
Go ahead. Go ahead. 

Rich Bennett 16:08
Well, go ahead. 

Jessica Morris 16:09
No, I was just going to say and it's for me, it's a continual cycle. It's not like I'm born again. And now or whoopsy. I'm good. Graduation day. Off you go. No, it's. It's a constant. I'm constantly dying to pieces of myself so that I can better follow Jesus. 

Rich Bennett 16:27
Well, which and that's the cleansing part. You think about it when you clean yourself. You get a shower every day, twice a day. 

Jessica Morris 16:35
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 16:36
Sometimes if you're summertime like me three times a day. You know, but you're constantly this. This is something I really don't understand about a lot of people. They will cleanse their body every day. But they will not cleanse their soul. And I never or their mind and I've never understood that. 

Jessica Morris 16:59
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 16:59
Never understood that. So was the book. Because you begin the book with a deeply personal reflection on your father and how your early experiences with, well, faith and everything. So how did your relationship with your father shape your understanding of God, and how has that evolved over time? 

Jessica Morris 17:22
Oh, that's such a great question. And I think one that a lot of people struggle with because the traditional the traditional idea for God is masculine. I mean, that's just the nature of it, right? And I grew up in the United Methodist Church, which is a Christian affiliated church. And so father, Son, Holy Spirit. Okay. So that's, you know, the general terms. So if you've got a great human father. That's a good start to understanding who God is, right? If your human father is pretty flawed. It's going to be a little more difficult, you know, especially when you're a little kid and your dad is also the minister. 

Rich Bennett 18:08
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 18:08
Your dad's the minister. He is an alcoholic and he's an alcoholic of the type that there are a lot of different types of alcoholics. But my father was an alcoholic who was the life of the party when he was outside of our home, that we lived in a very small town. And so there were a lot of hunters, sort of good old boys, you know. 

Rich Bennett 18:31
Right. 

Jessica Morris 18:32
There's anything wrong with that. But they lied to you. They were hardworking people. They like to have a couple of beers after work. You know, that sort of thing. And the fact that my dad, who was the minister was with them, I think, made everybody feel a little bit better about themselves because 

Rich Bennett 18:50
Right. 

Jessica Morris 18:50
the minister was doing it to. And so and he smoked. And I mean, this was the seventies, so he smoked. 

Rich Bennett 18:56
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 18:57
He drank and he parted with them. And there was probably some other extracurricular activities that we won't go into here. But 

he when he came home, it was a little bit different. Those. 

Rich Bennett 19:10
Okay. 

Jessica Morris 19:11
Home. And interestingly enough, I think it might have been harder for me and one of my siblings as opposed to the other two who sort of did some escape 

escapism when they went to college. They just never came home. They worked there in the summers and like it was their way of sort of removing themselves from it. And so when you and it was abusive, it was what I my father told me when I was very young that I was a mistake, that 

Rich Bennett 19:42
Right. 

Jessica Morris 19:43
my parents only wanted three children and I was the youngest of four. And so he told me, you know, I see in hindsight that when he told me that I was probably getting on his nerves, I was you know, I was a I was a brat, let's be honest. And so, you know, I'm not excusing him, but I do see in hindsight he may have been drunk. Who knows if he had a bad day. So someone might have died, you know, something like that. And so I grew up thinking that Father God was the same as father. My dad. 

But here's the really perverse, weird way that it actually worked for me, or that God worked it for me so that I could still stay connected. I loved You're probably going to think I'm crazy when I say this, but I loved Good Friday service when I was a little kid. And if you know anything about Good Friday, it's not really a celebration. You 

Rich Bennett 20:44
Right. 

Jessica Morris 20:44
know, Jesus is being beaten and spit on and imprisoned and, you know, wrongfully accuse and all these things. I loved it because that's what I could identify. And I knew that Jesus understood me. So I knew that no matter what was going on with this relationship with God, that Jesus would always understand me. And that he may not like. I never really understood them as the same person. 

So even though Jesus couldn't help me, at least he loved me. 

Rich Bennett 21:24
Right? 

Jessica Morris 21:24
And so. So even in all those years when I ran from the church, when I ran away from organized religion, I never became an atheist or an agnostic. Even like 

Rich Bennett 21:35
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 21:35
I always knew that Jesus loved me. 

Rich Bennett 21:38
Right. 

Jessica Morris 21:39
And so that was a connection for me in a time when I couldn't see anything else, which I look at that and I say, Thank God, you know, thank God even though it was a really kind of a perverse connection, it was. 

Rich Bennett 21:52
Right. 

Jessica Morris 21:53
Still a connection. You know, and I always stayed, you know, I always wore a cross. I always still felt very grateful for Jesus. And so over time, I was able to, you know, once I got into recovery and I started to do that work with that counselor over the trauma in my childhood, I and then especially when I got to seminary and started studying the same things my father had studied, 

I started to understand my dad more. I start he was 19 when my parents got married. 

Rich Bennett 22:28
While. 

Jessica Morris 22:28
He was way too young. He was way too young to get married and start a family. My mother was four years older than he was, and at that time that was a spinster. And she wanted babies. And so they. They started having babies right away. So he's in seminary and he's got little kids and, you know, my mom's. 

Rich Bennett 22:55
19. 

Jessica Morris 22:56
At 19 and my mom was a teacher and she was supporting them through her teacher salary and putting him through school because his mother was against them getting married. So she paid for him to go through school. And so it was a really, really difficult beginning for them. 

And it really I all through seminary, honestly, he died. My father died seven years before I got into seminary, and I really felt I felt him guiding me. I felt. 

Rich Bennett 23:28
Really? 

Jessica Morris 23:28
felt him being a part of my seminary experience in a way that I don't think ever could have happened if he were still living, because he never 

Rich Bennett 23:37
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 23:37
really he did find recovery from his alcoholism, but he never it never really took hold. He was never able to really let go of the bondage of himself in order to grasp the program and that know who knows why that is? I don't know. I don't care. I mean, it it it's different for everybody. But I do know today that he is a huge part of my spiritual connection, you know, And that's not I only attribute that attribute that to two things. One, the work that I've done and continue to do in forgiveness and my own recovery and that God is is really in charge of all this stuff. 

Rich Bennett 24:21
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 24:21
And that as long as I'm looking to God and I'm following in the footsteps of my Savior, then I'm going to be saved in all my relationships. They're all going to heal. I'm going to be able to forgive everybody. Maybe not right now at this moment. You. 

Rich Bennett 24:38
Right. 

Jessica Morris 24:38
But I will. 

Rich Bennett 24:39
Time. 

Jessica Morris 24:39
It does. It does take time. But I will be able to. I will be able to. 

Rich Bennett 24:45
Wow. So. In the book, and I don't want to give too much away because otherwise people won't buy the book. 

You mentioned being told never to ask why. God, How did that restriction influence your spiritual journey? And when did you finally allow yourself to ask the hard questions? 

Jessica Morris 25:10
Well, it restricted it so much so that I left, you know, the fact that I wasn't, you know, my dad was just like, well, you know, we don't ask why. We just know that God has our best interests in mind or something like that. So I'm kind of frothy, you know, thing. And, 

and it it was too difficult for me to not ask, you know, I. 

Rich Bennett 25:33
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 25:34
There, it seemed I didn't know the word hypocritical when I was little, but that's it. That I knew that feeling like this isn't right. Why? Why is this happening? Why am I in this family? Why is God if God loves me? Why is he putting me here? I remember asking my mom once. We were on vacation and my dad got we used to go to the beach and he would get really, really drunk. He'd go out and play golf all day and drink, and then we'd all be on the beach and he'd come to the beach and we would sometimes we would hide from him because he was so embarrassing. And I remember we were sitting on the boardwalk watching the boats come in. There was an inlet by where we went. And I remember saying, we, my mom and I were both crying because it had been a really bad situation in the house in the little bungalow we were in. And I remember seeing her. Why did God make wine? If if. If this stuff makes Daddy so mean, why did God make wine? 

And she did not have an answer for me? And it was. 

Rich Bennett 26:43
I don't think anybody would have any. 

Jessica Morris 26:45
It? Well, it was a horrifying question, I'm sure, for her. And the fact that she had no answer for me was horrifying to me 

Rich Bennett 26:53
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 26:53
like that. Like, here's this woman who's supposed to know everything. She's my mom. You know, I was a little kid when I asked this question and I and there was no answer. And it it really made me sad, like, why would God do this to us? I just couldn't I couldn't make my brain understand anything. And so I just stopped asking questions. 

Rich Bennett 27:17
Right. 

Jessica Morris 27:18
Because I was just it was too horrifying to know that there was no answer. And so here's where it changed when I got into recovery. I was 29 years old and I went to my first meeting for food addicts. And I got I got someone to help me walk me through the program within a couple of weeks. I asked somebody, I said, Will you help me with this? Will you take me through the program? Which is pretty much what they tell you to do as some. 

Rich Bennett 27:49
What? 

Jessica Morris 27:51
And throughout this process of surrendering my food on a daily basis, because that's the basic gist. You've got to surrender what you're eating on a daily basis to another person, to your higher power. Right. And that was that's really hard for somebody who has relied on food her whole life for comfort. 

Rich Bennett 28:10
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 28:12
And so I'm doing this and I'm starting in doing that, I'm putting down my comfort, right? So now all this stuff that I've been pushing down with that comfort is popping up. All these y questions are popping up all over the place because I've been pushing them down with pizza and donuts and popcorn and any kind of sugary substance I can put on top of it. I'm pushing those things down, right? So I don't have to look at them. Well, now they're popping up all over the place. And I'm like, What do I do with these things? What do I do with this? And I remember her saying to me, What I'd really like you to do is I'd like you to write a letter to God. 

And I'd like you to tell him everything you're angry about. 

And I said to her, we were on the phone. I remember we were on the phone. I remember sitting in the apartment I had at the time looking at the wall like this one is asking me to sign my death over because if you question God, you get struck by lightning. Like that's that was in my head. Now, I 

Rich Bennett 29:24
Right. 

Jessica Morris 29:24
remember anybody ever telling me that, but that was what I had in my head, right? 

Rich Bennett 29:29
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 29:30
And I've said it out loud. I said to her, I said, I can't do that. That's you can't ask God these things. You can't tell God when you're angry. And she's and I didn't remember it at the time, but subconsciously, I remembered that the last time I yelled at God, Jesus showed up and it scared the crap out of me. 

Rich Bennett 29:51
Right. Right. 

Jessica Morris 29:52
So much. So I was like, I don't I can't do this. I can't I'm you can't ask God these questions. I'll get struck by lightning. I remember saying that I'll get. 

Rich Bennett 30:03
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 30:05
And she said to me, and she had the most beautiful, soft, gentle voice, this woman. And she said You know what, Jessica? I did it. And I didn't get struck by lightning. She said, for today, could you just have faith in in my process? Because I'm here and you've asked me for help. And it has worked for me to do this. And so for today, could that just be your higher power that you trust in this process? And just write this letter. And I promise promise you, you will not be struck by lightning. And 

I said to her, Well, you know what? What do I have to lose at this point? Because I don't want to go back to the other way because I've already had some relief here. I've already had some peace from this. This sort of slavery to food. Right. And 

Rich Bennett 31:04
Right. 

Jessica Morris 31:04
that's she was the one who helped me to get to that place. Right. So I thought, okay, well, I'm going to take this chance. And she said that she would I would read it to her and she would sit and listen. And if we both got struck by lightning, that would be okay with her. And, you know, she was basically putting herself on the line for me is what I thought. And so I did it. I asked every question I took and I that letter was so long. And there and and I got so angry. My fingers hurt. I had my the paper was torn in some places because I was. 

Rich Bennett 31:42
Wow. 

Jessica Morris 31:43
There was so much anger in me at that point. All these questions and all this anger that I had pushed down for 29 years came out onto that paper. And I remember sitting and reading it to her. It took a really long time because I cried so much. I just was doing that, you know, that sort of that cry. You know, you can't catch your breath. There was so. Yes, I just it was just like, here it all is, you know? And she didn't even blink an eye. She didn't she was not shocked by any of it. She she basically she said to me, she said, I have a really good counselor who's going to help you with a lot of this stuff. She said, because a lot of this stuff is way outside of I'm not a professional. I can't see that I can help you with the program. I can help you with your food. But you there's a lot of trauma from your childhood that needs helping. And that's when she sent me to this counselor. And. 

Rich Bennett 32:47
Wow. 

Jessica Morris 32:47
Yeah. Yeah. And so that's where it changed for me, because I was. I was given permission. 

Rich Bennett 32:54
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 32:54
To question why is all this happening? Why? And you know what? I still don't have the answers. Other than the fact that I know that God knows way more than I will ever know as a human being. And as long as I'm trusting in God, these things, these questions, these confusions, the you know, I look around at the world today and I slap my forehead and go, what the heck is going on? And, you know, if I get sucked into trying to find out the answer to what the heck is going on, I'm in trouble. So 

Rich Bennett 33:34
Right? 

Jessica Morris 33:34
I know I have to go. You know what? God, I'm going to trust you in this, that you're working something out here. And for today, I'm going to ask that you place my focus on what you want me to be doing just for today. You know, keep my worries off like all that other stuff and place my focus on what is it today that I can do to further your kingdom right in front of me. Not all this other big stuff that I have no influence over. But who can I maybe pay for at the register today? 

Rich Bennett 34:11
Ignore the negativity. 

Jessica Morris 34:12
Yeah. Who can I let out in traffic that might just need that extra boost of someone being kind to them? It may be that little, but it may not be that low. 

Rich Bennett 34:24
That sounds like a beat. That's a that sounds like you would be a good daily exercise for everybody to do. 

Jessica Morris 34:31
Imagine if everybody did that. 

Rich Bennett 34:34
Uh huh. 

Jessica Morris 34:35
Imagine what would happen in the world if everybody just said, okay, today, I'm just going to let one person out in traffic. That's all I'm going to do. 

Rich Bennett 34:43
Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Imagine all the love and the lives that you could save. 

Jessica Morris 34:49
Do you know what it makes me think of, actually? It makes me think of 

911 happened. 

Rich Bennett 34:57
Oh, how everybody came. 

Jessica Morris 34:58
Two years after A is two years. I was in recovery when that happened. 

Rich Bennett 35:02
Oh, wow. 

Jessica Morris 35:03
And I was so awake at that point to things that were going on, you know, And I started to see people the kind Ms.. 

Rich Bennett 35:14
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 35:15
It was just I'm getting a chill just thinking about it like it was overwhelmingly beautiful to see the way people came together after that. 

Rich Bennett 35:28
You're listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. We'll be right back. 

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4109413499 and tell them Rich Bennett said you. I've never have seen anything. The closest I ever recall anybody coming together like that was the hands across America thing. 

Jessica Morris 36:52
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 36:54
That's a closest I've ever seen. But and unfortunately, a lot of times it takes a tragedy to bring people back together. 

Jessica Morris 37:01
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 37:02
You know, but that. Yeah. 911. Oh, my. Oh, yeah. That pulled everybody together. I remember getting upset because I went to re-enlist. I was told I was too old. 

Jessica Morris 37:12
well. 

Rich Bennett 37:13
But yeah, you know, but the funny thing is with that too, even, you know, my brothers that I served with in the Marine Corps, we're all reaching out to each other, checking on each other. And of course, you know, family, all of my family's local, but oh, they're the stories I want to ask you about that letter. 

Jessica Morris 37:35
Okay. Yes. 

Rich Bennett 37:36
That you wrote. 

Okay. So when you were reading it aloud, how did you feel after you finished reading the letter that you wrote? 

Jessica Morris 37:47
Exhausted. 

Relieved. A little bit scared. Know, because I was putting it all on the table for the first time in my life. I had been in counseling for probably about ten years prior to getting into recovery on and off. But I never really told the whole truth. 

Rich Bennett 38:11
There. 

Jessica Morris 38:11
No. And a lot of those things were things I was ashamed of that I had no idea that other people ever experienced, ever did, ever talked about. I mean, my first meeting, my first meeting, I thought they had given my first meeting for food addicts. I thought they had given a script to the girl who was sharing her story that night because it might as well have been word for word for my. 

Rich Bennett 38:38
Wow. 

Jessica Morris 38:39
And she was a thin, blonde, tall woman. And here I am, five, four, dark hair, £150 overweight. What is she going to have to tell me? And 

Rich Bennett 38:50
Right. 

Jessica Morris 38:51
basically told me my story. And I really thought they had given her a script. 

Rich Bennett 38:56
Wow. Huh? 

Jessica Morris 38:57
Happened was she had passed around during the room during the meeting. She had passed around like a little photo album of pictures of herself before and after. Just because a lot of times you don't believe it until you see it, you know? And when her pictures got to me, she was almost finished telling her story. So I had heard almost the whole thing thinking she's just been given a script. This wasn't really her story. So I started looking at her pictures and I could not believe it. I could not believe it. The not just the difference in her body sizes because she had gained and lost a lot of weight. 

Rich Bennett 39:33
Right? 

Jessica Morris 39:33
Time. But the look in her eyes in the picture was the same desperation that I felt. And when I was looking at her in the meeting, she was bright, she was happy. She was not. Everything was great in her life. And yet at the same time, she had this peace that I didn't think was even possible in a person. 

Rich Bennett 39:54
Uh huh. 

Jessica Morris 39:55
And so, you know, it just it I don't even know how to describe it. It's a beautiful, wonderful. 

Relieving feeling that is also terrifying at the same time 

Rich Bennett 40:09
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 40:09
because, you know, a lot of work has to happen for me to get there. 

Rich Bennett 40:16
I'm I'm sitting there thinking, 

and I don't know if it would be a good idea or not. Maybe better for the professionals, but like, if you knew somebody that's going through problems, ask or say, why don't you, you know, write a letter to God, List the things that there are, questions you have and read it to me. But me being a professional may not be a bad I mean, may not be a good idea. Or it could be because I could be crying along with them. 

Jessica Morris 40:48
You know, it's interesting. You know, there there is a real pull in my heart. I'm when I was in seminary, I tripped over spiritual direction. I didn't even know spiritual direction was a thing. I didn't know it was something that you could get a certificate in and help other people in that way. And it's basically just for people who want to help others. It was it was kind of it was a Catholic tradition for a very long time where 

Rich Bennett 41:13
Okay. 

Jessica Morris 41:13
priests would do it for people, where you would just go and sit with the priest and talk about your journey with God. And the priest would help to to point out things for you that you couldn't see because you were too close to it. You know, a lot of times it's hard to see God working in your own life, but someone else who's non-biased, you know, bystander can go, Wow, I see God all over the place here, you know? And that's what you do as a spiritual director. And that's kind of what you do when you're helping someone walk through recovery. 

Rich Bennett 41:46
Right. 

Jessica Morris 41:46
You know, you're pointing out to them. You're helping them to see the places where they should see gratitude, you know, because for so long long we've pointed at the negative. We've stayed in that victim role and we've said, Oh, woe is me. You know, this is why I, you know, eat too much or this is why I drink too much because of this. If you had my life, you'd drink a lot, too, you know, that kind of thing. We're constantly pointing towards the negative. But once we start, once we once we put all those anchors down, which does take a professional for a lot of people. 

Rich Bennett 42:23
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 42:24
Once we were able to work through those things. You know, she also helped me to start a gratitude list, which to this this day. Five plus years later, I do five things I'm grateful for every single day. And why? 

Rich Bennett 42:42
Five thing, 

Jessica Morris 42:42
Five things every single day. Five things I'm grateful for and why I'm grateful for them. Like I can say that I'm grateful today for my recovery right? I could use that every day, as would 

Rich Bennett 42:55
right? 

Jessica Morris 42:55
my gratitude. But why today? What was it today that made me grateful for my recovery? Not yesterday, not tomorrow. Today. Why am I grateful for my recovery today? And it makes me center in on something different each day that that I'm able to point to. And if you think about that, I don't know. I'm not. I've never been good at math. I don't know what, 25 times 365 days is. But I can. 

Rich Bennett 43:25
A lot. 

Jessica Morris 43:25
A lot of gratitude. That 

Rich Bennett 43:27
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 43:27
is a lot of gratitude for recovery alone. And then there's four other things on my lists every day. 

Rich Bennett 43:35
Wow. Okay, so now I need to change my morning routine. 

I love that, though, because every every morning when I wake up before I get out of bed, I got a little angel and I'll I'll hold it. I'll say a prayer. Then I got a little rock that my daughter found when she was little. I call it my Grateful Rock. And I say something that I'm grateful for. I never say why, and I should do that. And I love the idea of five things that you're grateful for. 

Jessica Morris 44:06
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 44:06
Throughout the day. And God, those of you listening, try it, because I guarantee you, you're just going to feel so much better throughout the day. Do it in the morning when you wake up. Do it at lunch. Do it when you have a snack, do it at dinner. And of course, always before you go to bed. 

Jessica Morris 44:25
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 44:25
Always before you go to bed. I. 

Jessica Morris 44:28
Well, and I'll even give you a little I'll give you a teaser. I have a friend in recovery who I actually I text exchange with her our gratitude each day. So we're we're committed to each. 

Rich Bennett 44:41
Oh. 

Jessica Morris 44:42
And she's so funny because sometimes I would say more often than not on a monday, Monday night, I'll get her gratitude list. And the first thing will be I'm grateful that Monday only comes once a week and here's why. 

And it just it always makes me laugh, you know, because it's like even if we're looking at that, looking at it that way, you. It's better than just sitting in the muck. You know? 

Rich Bennett 45:14
I look forward to Monday. I do. It's, you know, I guess when you love what you're doing. 

Jessica Morris 45:23
Yeah, it's different. 

Rich Bennett 45:24
You look forward to 

Jessica Morris 45:25
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 45:25
it. Although I still cannot get that song into my head from the Boomtown Rats. Tell. Tell me why I. 

Jessica Morris 45:34
No. See mine. Mine was when I'm an eighties kid, you know, I was born 1970. So in the eighties I was in high school. And that song Manic Monday. 

Oh, 

Rich Bennett 45:50
Local news 

Jessica Morris 45:51
it gets. 

Rich Bennett 45:51
local news channel here used to play and they may still play. 

Jessica Morris 45:55
It gets stuck in my head when I hear it. But everyone. 

Rich Bennett 46:01
Yeah. Yeah. And I 

Jessica Morris 46:02
No. 

Rich Bennett 46:03
was a deejay. I started deejaying in the eighties, and I had requests for that a lot in the clubs. 

Jessica Morris 46:08
Yeah. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 46:10
It's like, No, Why? 

Jessica Morris 46:12
We were a weird we were a weird group of people. 

Rich Bennett 46:15
I tell you, I love the. 

Jessica Morris 46:17
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 46:18
I'm sorry, but when it came to music, well, I mean, the sixties and seventies were great, but the hair metal bands and everything. 

Jessica Morris 46:27
Now you see. Rock of Ages. This. 

Rich Bennett 46:30
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 46:30
It's a great show. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 46:32
Yes, I had that. Yeah. And oh, that's giving me flashbacks here. Just. 

Jessica Morris 46:39
I actually. 

Rich Bennett 46:40
I used to have hair back then. 

Jessica Morris 46:42
I actually have a great idea for a Broadway show, but I think it's somehow impossible. I've actually talked to a couple of people about it, where you use the people, the writers and everything would use popular music to tell the story of the Bible, the Old and New Testament and that and we would call it God Rocks. Right? Get it? 

Rich Bennett 47:08
Oh, I. 

Jessica Morris 47:08
And it would, you know, like I have like I even have some really great songs, like for when the Israelites are wandering around in the desert, following Moses around in the desert and they're complaining and they're, you know, back and forth with Moses, they would sing the Clash song, Should I stay or should I go? 

Rich Bennett 47:29
Should I. 

But. 

Jessica Morris 47:33
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 47:34
The thing is, you could take songs like that and somehow or another turn it around to where it has a meaty 

Jessica Morris 47:41
Oh, yeah. I had the whole 

Rich Bennett 47:42
Bible. 

Jessica Morris 47:43
thing mapped out. I have the whole thing mapped out. 

Rich Bennett 47:46
Well, how come you haven't done it yet? 

Jessica Morris 47:47
Well, because I actually. I talked to. Talk to a theater guy about it. Ed, first of all, it would be really, really difficult to get rights to all those different songs. Depending. 

Rich Bennett 48:01
Yeah, it costs a lot of money. 

Jessica Morris 48:02
Cost a lot of money, like I would have to be established before I even went down that road to try to to try it. And he you know, he gave me some great ideas about doing little vignettes and putting them on YouTube and all that stuff. I just at the time I was working full time when I talked with. 

Rich Bennett 48:20
Right. 

Jessica Morris 48:20
And I'm actually not anymore. So I don't know that I have an excuse not to research this a little bit more now that we're talking about it. But I mean, like remember this song Personal Jesus by. 

Rich Bennett 48:32
Oh, yeah. 

Jessica Morris 48:33
Depeche Mode. That would be John the Baptist Preaching. 

Rich Bennett 48:37
Oh, 

Jessica Morris 48:39
Get it. You know, and like and I have a couple like John Lennon, Beatles, you know, like all over them and Elvis like a bunch of different all over the map so that I'm, I. Because the idea being that it would be music that would attract people to the show because they know it from popular culture 

Rich Bennett 48:58
right. 

Jessica Morris 48:58
and then they would get a lesson while they were there. Kind of like a Godspell sort of thing, but. 

Rich Bennett 49:05
Oh, why, 

Jessica Morris 49:06
Yeah. Remember Godspell? 

Rich Bennett 49:07
yes, 

Jessica Morris 49:08
Yeah. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 49:09
Why? 

Jessica Morris 49:10
Anyway, sorry. 

Rich Bennett 49:10
right. 

Jessica Morris 49:11
Sorry. I digress, I. 

Rich Bennett 49:13
I'm showing my age now. JS With with the book. What was your the hardest part of the book for you to write? Which chapter? 

Jessica Morris 49:26
Who? 

Rich Bennett 49:27
Or was it the very beginning in the preface of. 

Jessica Morris 49:29
No, actually, this this book kind of came to be over about a five year period. I did that professor that I had intro to New Testament with who 

Rich Bennett 49:45
Mm hmm. 

Jessica Morris 49:46
spurred the first idea when I went to him to talk about the idea that I had for my thesis, for my master's 

Rich Bennett 49:54
Mm hmm. 

Jessica Morris 49:54
thesis. He suggested that I do an individual study on eschatology first, you know, so that I would get there. I would do all the research on that first. 

Rich Bennett 50:06
Right. 

Jessica Morris 50:06
I would have a real strong understanding of what eschatology really was. And so I did that study with him, which was amazing. That was a God thing because he was so crazy smart. He kind of scared me. But here I was sitting in his office for a whole semester, just me and him, and talking about eschatology. And it was amazing because not only did I learn a lot from him, but I held my own, which kind of surprised me about myself 

Rich Bennett 50:37
Right. 

Jessica Morris 50:38
that I was that I was smart enough to actually sit in a room alone with this guy and talk for a whole semester about this. And so it gave me a little bit more confidence to do to take the next step, which was to make it a thesis idea. And then I worked with another professor who became my thesis advisor because he was pretty much an expert on the gospel of John, which is where 

Rich Bennett 51:04
Okay. 

Jessica Morris 51:04
I took a lot of the book from my thesis. And after I wrote my thesis to get an A, and I'm going to be honest and tell you I wanted to get an egg. That was the main goal there. Right. And he did say to me, though, at one point, what's your point in all of this? What do you really want to accomplish here? Other than the grades, let's put this well, let's put the grade aside. What would you really like to accomplish with this message? And I started to think about that. And I thought, you know, I want to help people to not be afraid of God. I want to help people to not be afraid of the end times, because I spent a lot of time being afraid Jesus is going to return and I'm going to be one of those people who gets thrown into the fire. 

Rich Bennett 51:56
Right. 

Jessica Morris 51:57
And so after I grew, I, you know, so I presented my thesis and after I graduated, I graduated in May of 2020. So it was a pandemic. 

Rich Bennett 52:08
Oh, wow. 

Jessica Morris 52:08
And the world pretty much felt like it had come to an end already. 

Rich Bennett 52:12
Right. 

Jessica Morris 52:13
And I started writing the book because I knew that my thesis was not done. I had to I had to incorporate my story into this academic paper. Right. And that's where I started writing about the deep dive that I did into the trauma of my childhood, into overcoming the addiction. Not on my own, with the help of other people, with the help of God, with God guiding every single moment. And in writing that, I would say not the hardest moment, but I can tell you that the moment when and I'll share this with you, I might get emotional because it was a really emotional moment when it came to me when it happened. I was writing 

and I was writing the chapter about letting go of perfect knowledge. Jessica Okay, because that was the one who wanted to get the air. That was that girl, right? 

Rich Bennett 53:17
Okay. 

Jessica Morris 53:18
She needed to be get rid of, too, because she was getting in the way. All right. She was getting in the way of really knowing God. 

Rich Bennett 53:28
Okay. 

Jessica Morris 53:29
And what happened as I was writing that chapter is I was relaying a moment when I shared there was one class I took where you had to share your whole spiritual journey. And the professor in that class was a Ph.D., but he was also a master divinity, so he was also a reverend. And at that point, it was early in my it was early in my seminary studies. I still didn't quite trust the reverend. 

Rich Bennett 54:01
Okay? 

Jessica Morris 54:01
And so anybody who had the revenue in front of their name, I was still a little suspicious of them because that was still my dad, even though 

Rich Bennett 54:10
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 54:10
I had a lot of recovery at that point, I was still a little suspicious of the whole organized religion thing. And so he was my professor and I was respectful towards him. But I also was like, I'd rather have just a Ph.D.. Right? And so so I didn't quite want to trust him. And when I was telling my story, I shared with the class what I had shared with you earlier in this discussion about how I was always connected to Jesus. And what I wrote in my in my story at that point was because his father had abandoned him as my father had abandoned me. And that professor gasped like I could hear. I was just reading my story. 

Rich Bennett 54:58
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 54:59
And I heard an audible and I looked up and I saw that it was him. And I was like, Oh. And and I and I was brought into the moment. I was brought off the paper and I was brought into the moment. And I realized what I had said. And I started to cry and I went from telling my story to living it again. 

Rich Bennett 55:24
Uh huh. 

Jessica Morris 55:25
And I made it through like he asked me to take a moment and collect myself because I tried to keep I tried to keep going. I didn't I wanted to ignore the fact that I was crying. I wanted to keep going and get the guy, you know. 

Rich Bennett 55:38
Right. 

Jessica Morris 55:38
And he he asked me to stop and I collected myself. I finished my story. People came up to me after class and they were like, They give me hugs and oh, what I want. Thanks for being so vulnerable and all that stuff and which was all lovely. I'm not dismissing that, but I, I went out of the classroom at the end of it and the professor was standing there waiting for me 

and he asked me he said, Jessica, he said, I was really struck by what you shared in class today. And he said, I'm wondering, have you ever read the gospel of John? Not for a class, but just for yourself And and I and this is what I did. I gave him the answer I learned in the intro to New Testament. And I said, well, I just learned in the intro to New Testament that if the if you want to know what Jesus really said, you should look for it in more than one place. So if it's in more than one of the gospels, then he probably really said it because more than one person is reporting on it. And what I learned in Intro to New Testament that the Gospel of John is very different than the other three. And so so, you know, I don't know that that's really what Jesus said. What I said to him. Right. And he got this big smile on his face. And I'm writing this now, okay? I'm writing this in for the book. And I'm living it again. And I realize I had such suspicion of this man, Right? And at this moment in time, I was looking directly at him. He was the face of Jesus. 

Rich Bennett 57:26
Oh, wow. 

Jessica Morris 57:27
Because, Woody, he smiled when I gave him that academic answer, and he said to me, Would you do me a favor? And would you please just read the Gospel of John for yourself? He said, I really think that you will get a lot out of the father son relationship in that gospel, and I think it will be really helpful to you on your journey. And then he just walked away. He didn't make me commit to doing it. He didn't. He just said, I'd really like you to do it for yourself. And he started to walk away and I turn and I watched him and he turned around and he looked at me. He goes, You won't be sorry, Jessica. 

Rich Bennett 58:10
Wow. 

Jessica Morris 58:12
And in while I was writing that the light that I saw coming out of that man when I was writing it, not in the moment, because in the moment I was, I remember walking away thinking, Well, now I have to read it so that I can tell him I did, you know, that's where I was at that. 

Rich Bennett 58:34
Right. 

Jessica Morris 58:35
But when I was writing it, I saw the light that was there. 

So I was overcome by the fact in the memory of writing it, that that was about that was the same semester that I had intro to New Testament, and it was about a month before the end of the semester. So it was about a month before that idea was revealed to me. And it was that month that I read the Gospel of John. 

Rich Bennett 59:09
Wow. 

Jessica Morris 59:09
For myself, not for a grade. Not to tell anybody about it, but just for myself. And look what God gave me. He gave me the idea that spurred everything that's led up until this moment. 

Rich Bennett 59:28
Yes. 

Jessica Morris 59:33
I know it's almost too much. 

Rich Bennett 59:36
It's. Well, no, story's amazing. We haven't even talked about a lot of things. Well. We've got to save them for next time, actually. Is there going to be a second book as well? 

Jessica Morris 59:48
Well, right now I'm working on a meditation on Jesus's sayings, and I'm going to I'm going to set it up. So that there can be some journal space because writing has been so important to me. I want to share what I've learned from what Jesus has said or what I've interpreted it, and then give people some questions, whoever is reading it, some questions to guide them in their own process, because that's what it's about, helping each other to interpret for our our own personal journey. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:19
So something very important. Before I get to my last question. 

Jessica Morris 1:00:22
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:23
Tell everybody where they can find higher powered one woman. One woman's journey of personal eschatology is as well as your website, because you got the blog and everything on your Web site. 

Jessica Morris 1:00:34
Yes, I have. Well, and I also wrote another book that was published right before I got into seminary, which is. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:42
Oh, 

Jessica Morris 1:00:43
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 1:00:43
I. 

Jessica Morris 1:00:43
that's a daily devotion you can find both my books on. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:46
Oh. 

Jessica Morris 1:00:48
I have a daily devotion called Dewdrops, which is morning meditations to cultivate faith, love and service. And that's. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:57
Okay. 

Jessica Morris 1:00:57
Not just people in recovery. I mean, it's good, you know, people in recovery will get a lot from it, but pretty much anybody can read that one. And then higher powered is also on Amazon. And and they're about they're almost almost exactly 210 years apart. Due Drops was published in October of 2014 and Higher Powered was published in September of 2024. And so they're both on Amazon and you can find my website is just my name with my middle initial. Jessica Elmore is WSJ.com and I have all kinds of information there. The books are there that will, you know, they'll lead you to Amazon to purchase them. But my blogs, their information about spiritual direction, my story, it's all there. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:46
And don't wait another ten years to publish to. 

Jessica Morris 1:01:49
No, I'm actually I will say thanks to my wonderful husband, I was able to leave my 30 plus year career in higher education fund raising. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:03
Oh, wow. 

Jessica Morris 1:02:04
I left that career in October to begin to try to really make this writing ministry work. And he's he's carrying the financial load for us right now. And what he said to me was he's a little bit older than I am. And he said, I would really, really like to retire when I'm 65. So if you could have health insurance by then, that'd be great. 

So I have about two years to see what I can make happen with this writing ministry. So God bless him. I'm so grateful. I'm. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:38
That is awesome. Yeah. My wife keeps asking me how come she. When am I going to make more money so she can retire? 

That's one thing I don't think I'll ever do just because I love doing what I'm doing. I keep telling everybody I'll be 100 years old and still be doing this. 

Jessica Morris 1:02:55
Well, this isn't work. This, to me, is just passion. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:59
Well, it is. But remember what I said earlier and maybe before we started recording that if work is, work, should be fun. And since I have sponsors, well, technically it's work and it is a lot. Doing a podcast is a lot of work. 

Jessica Morris 1:03:13
Oh, I'm sure, yes. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:15
Oh, yeah. Well, it's fun. I love it. Okay, so my last question. I have a funny feeling I'm going to know the answer for this. And I'm not going to ask you what you think I'm probably going to ask. 

Jessica Morris 1:03:27
Okay. Okay. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:29
So tell us who Paul E Clarke is. Tell us a little bit about him. 

Jessica Morris 1:03:37
Oh, I love that you asked me this. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:44
Told you wasn't going to be a question I normally ask. 

Jessica Morris 1:03:47
And he 

just taken a moment. 

Paul, Paul, 

I'll tell you why I'm crying right now is joy, absolute joy over the fact that God put this man in my life. 

He became the chaplain where I worked in that degree of awe, that career of higher education, fundraising in 2004. And that's what I was about, five years in recovery at that point. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:31
Okay. 

Jessica Morris 1:04:31
And 

was the first I'm going to put bunny ears quotes. For those who aren't watching me right now, I'm putting bunny ears quotes around this. He was the first man of the cloth in my whole life that I was able to trust. And it was simply because of who he was. I mean, it was he absolutely had a he was not in recovery, but he had a pure gift for working with people who were. 

And he he had been my spiritual mentor 

up until the day he died in September of 2023. So a year a year before the book came out. 

He he was if I could have chosen a father. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:27
Yeah. 

Jessica Morris 1:05:32
He. Encouraged me. He loved me where I was. He accepted me where I was, and I was crazy in early recovery. I mean, I might have been sober, but I was off my not half the time, you know, And and he we would we would just sit and talk for hours about Jesus, about everything. 

And so he he was he was the dad I would have chosen. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:02
For those of you listening. If you're wondering why I asked her about Paul Clarke, it's because that's who the book is dedicated to. 

Jessica Morris 1:06:10
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:11
And I have a funny feeling that your father and Paul. Check out. Checked out your book from the library up there in the public library. And are very proud of you. And don't be surprised if you're going to get something in the mail is going to be your book from them asking for your order. 

Jessica Morris 1:06:38
You know what's interesting? I will just say very quickly about this, that when I was sending the out to publishers, I hadn't put a dedication page in yet. And I just decided I'm like, You know what? Because my first book, I dedicated to all those who had gone before me in recovery because they just didn't help 

Rich Bennett 1:06:59
Right. 

Jessica Morris 1:06:59
me so much. And I thought, you know what? This man, I'm I'm dedicating this directly to him. You know, I don't care if it hurts anybody else's feelings. I want it to go to him. He was the one who really, you know, guided me all along this way. And so I did it. And then I sent it out to another publisher. And I left the house right after I did that. I left the house and I went to the grocery store for just regular stuff. And I went to my regular grocery store. And there was Paul's wife. Who? It wasn't it wasn't her regular grocery store. She just happened to be there. And I knew I said to her, I said, You are not going to believe. You are not going to believe what I'm going to tell you right now. Know what I really believe it was him saying, I saw what you did. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:53
Right. Wow. 

Jessica Morris 1:07:56
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:58
Everybody. Listen, make sure you get this book. And if after you read it, you know what I'm going to say, make sure you leave a full review. 

Jessica Morris 1:08:06
Yes, please do. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:07
You're going to love it. And don't pass it on to someone else. Purchase another copy. 

Jessica Morris 1:08:13
Oh, did. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:14
Are several copies. 

Jessica Morris 1:08:15
My husband call you rich and tell you to say that. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:18
No. You know, here's the funny thing, Jessica, because I start when I one of the books are really changed. Well, two books that really changed my life was The Secret. And the second one was Tuesdays with Morrie by Mitch Albom and I. My mother had cancer at the time, and I after I finished reading Tuesdays with Morrie, I gave it to my mother and it helped her a lot. And she went into remission afterwards. And then that book just kept getting passed on and passed on. I wanted to read it again. I couldn't find the book. So for the longest time, I would tell people when I've had authors on the podcast, I would tell them, you after you read the book, pass it on to somebody else, let them enjoy it. Now it's like, Wait a minute, no. So I purchased the book for someone else because, you know, libraries are important. However. 

Jessica Morris 1:09:13
Yes. Yes. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:15
Yeah, but yeah, it's, I just, it's and the thing is, books make awesome presents. You know your other one dewdrops. Oh, could you imagine if they're in all the recovery homes and everything that would make even this book? Would make a big difference. And one of the things I also love to tell people is, you know, especially with a book like this, you have to purchase it just for a person. Purchase it. For a business or nonprofit purchased several of them. And, you know, one of the things that I think where a lot of businesses don't realize this. One of the ways you can donate make a donation is to purchase a mass load of books and give it to an organization that, you know, it'll help. Because that's one of the when it comes to reading and knowledge and educating 

you one other. That's the greatest gift I believe you can. 

Jessica Morris 1:10:25
And you know what? One of the greatest compliments I've ever received from anybody was this woman I just happened to run into at a at a recovery meeting. And this was recent, actually. And she said to me, she said, I heard you just wrote wrote another book. I have your first one. She said, You know why I have it? And I said, No, why? And she goes, Because I was seeing Steve, who's the counselor that I talk about in the book. And she's like, And it was in his waiting room, and I just picked it up while I was waiting and I started reading it and I thought, I need to get this book. This book. She didn't know. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:05
Right. 

Jessica Morris 1:11:06
And so she was giving me a double compliment because she was saying. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:09
Wow. 

Jessica Morris 1:11:10
Book and Steve had it on display in his office, you know, like, whoa, my mind was blown, you know? 

Rich Bennett 1:11:16
Oh, that's awesome. That's. 

Jessica Morris 1:11:18
Yeah. You just never know. You never know. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:21
Yeah. Oh, yeah. And the thing is, when 

your book and I guarantee it saved people's lives and it's changed people's lives. 

Jessica Morris 1:11:31
I 

Rich Bennett 1:11:31
Without 

Jessica Morris 1:11:31
hope so. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:32
a doubt. 

Jessica Morris 1:11:32
I hope so. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:33
So. 

Jessica Morris 1:11:33
And I. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:34
You're May. 

Jessica Morris 1:11:35
Helps people to not be afraid. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:37
You're making a difference, Jessica. And I want to thank 

Jessica Morris 1:11:40
Thank 

Rich Bennett 1:11:40
you. 

Jessica Morris 1:11:40
you. And so are you, Rich? So are you. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:42
Of that. Jessica, thank you so much. I cannot wait to talk to you again. Once I talk to my other co-host, I'll let her know so I could and then I'll let you know because I have no idea when we're going to start recording these. 

Jessica Morris 1:11:57
I went. I'm at your service. Here I am. 

Rich Bennett 1:12:01
Thank you so much. 

Jessica Morris 1:12:02
Thank you. 

Rich Bennett 1:12:03
Thank you for listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. I hope you enjoy today's episode and learn something from it as I did. If you'd like to hear more conversations like this, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you have a moment, I'd love if you could leave a review. It helps us reach more listeners and share more incredible stories. Don't forget to connect with us on social media or visit our website at conversations with Rich Bennett Dotcom. For updates, giveaways and more. Until next time, take care, Be kind and keep the conversations going.