Finding Inner Peace: Ann Swanson on Meditation, Chronic Pain, and Modern Life

Rich Bennett 0:00
Thank you for joining the conversation where we explore the stories and experiences that shape our world. Today, I have the pleasure of welcoming an Swanson. That last name may change soon, actually. 

Ann Swanson 0:14
Actually not. 

Rich Bennett 0:15
Well, we'll get into that now. Okay. Really? 

Ann Swanson 0:20
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 0:21
Okay. All right. Well, in that case, yeah, we definitely have the pleasure of welcoming and sworn. It's going to stay like that. A beacon of light in the realms of yoga and meditation and isn't just any expert. She's a bestselling author whose work has transcended languages and borders, touching lives globally with her book, Science of Yoga, which has sold over half a million copies and been translated into over 15 languages. Its latest venture, Meditation for the Real World is a testament to her dedication to bringing the ancient practice of meditation into the bustling lives of modern society. With a background marked by overcoming personal challenges such as chronic pain and anxiety, its journey led her from the depths of her own struggles to the peaks of academic achievement. Earning a master of science in yoga therapy. Her explorations have taken her across the world, from India to China, seeking out the roots of yoga and Taichi, all in the quest to understand and harness the power of meditation. Today, she stands as a bridge between the mystical and the scientific merging, cutting edge research with timeless wisdom to create accessible science backed practices for busy people with busy minds as work, especially her collaboration with a Harvard meditation research chair and a New York Times illustrator for her latest book underscores her commitment to making meditation, not just a task on our to do list, but an integrative part of our daily lives. So listeners, be prepared to be enlightened and inspired, and you're going to learn a lot as Ann shares how we can find peace and resilience in the hustle and bustle of everyday life. And I want to say this first. Thank you for writing a book about meditation that is easy to read. I and the illustration in it. Oh my God, it's phenomenal. So I want to thank you for that. Thank you for everything you're doing. And welcome to the show, 

Ann Swanson 2:35
Thank you so much. It was a pleasure to work with the illustrator and my publisher, Dick. They do these like coffee table books that are so beautiful. It's a hardcover. It's the perfect gift book. Meditation for the Real World is a great book for that skeptical neighbor or, you know, your mother in law who is told to meditate but can't quite get into 

Rich Bennett 2:59
huh? 

Ann Swanson 2:59
it. 

Rich Bennett 3:03
I love this because, you know, a lot of people when it comes to meditation, 

they think, you know, that you have to sit down with your legs crossed, your your hands out, you know, and humming. A lot of times that's what they see. 

Ann Swanson 3:20
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 3:21
Yeah. I mean, you can you can meditate while laying down. You can meditate while there's so many different ways to meditate. 

Ann Swanson 3:29
What? 

Rich Bennett 3:29
But before we get into. Yes. Yeah, but be careful doing that as well. 

I walked into a tree one time. Yeah, you lose. 

Ann Swanson 3:39
Don't close your eyes. 

Rich Bennett 3:42
I did it. I. Weird. It's like I was. Maybe I did. I don't know. I don't know if I fell asleep or if I. Yeah. How you get tunnel vision sometimes or you just like, well, whatever you whatever's in front of you, you don't see cause you see something else in your mind. And I think that's what happens. Good thing I had a helmet on. This happened, course. 

Ann Swanson 4:03
Oh, really? You know, there's been 

Rich Bennett 4:06
Oh, 

Ann Swanson 4:06
a problem of people walking into like light poles in London 

Rich Bennett 4:13
yes. 

Ann Swanson 4:13
and in big cities where they'll put padding around the light poles. And the reason is not because these people are meditating, it's because they're looking at their phones and. 

Rich Bennett 4:22
Yeah. 

Ann Swanson 4:22
Com such a hazard. 

Rich Bennett 4:24
Oh, yeah, Well, well, they always say that. Well, it should be. I mean, I know you can't talk on your phone or text while driving. I think they need to make it a law to where you can't do it while you're walking either. How many have been hit by cars, by vehicles not paying attention just for getting them on the road, on their phone or with earbuds in? 

Ann Swanson 4:43
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 4:46
You know, you're always be aware of your surroundings. But before we get into the meditation, I want to talk to you about your early life with the anxiety and chronic pain. What besides anxiety, what type of chronic pain were you going through? 

Ann Swanson 5:05
Yeah, I had joint pain since I was a teenager and I thought it was just normal to be in 

Rich Bennett 5:12
Right. 

Ann Swanson 5:12
extreme pain. Like in college. I if I had any wine or any, you know, I stayed up late for an all nighter the next day. I mean, I was just bedridden in pain. And I thought, Oh, that's just a hangover. That's just from not sleeping. But then my friends who were in the same situation, they weren't they weren't having this physical. 

Rich Bennett 5:31
They weren't in their paid. 

Ann Swanson 5:33
Yeah. So I realized, oh, I have this tendency towards joint pain. When I have inflammation and it flares up, it's like under the arthritis umbrella term. 

Rich Bennett 5:44
Right. 

Ann Swanson 5:45
Type of arthritis to have that inflammation of the joints from probably for me from Hypermobility, actually I was too flexible and. 

Rich Bennett 5:56
Really? 

Ann Swanson 5:57
Over the years, I've developed more strength to counter that, but with chronic pain. One of the best anecdotes is actually meditation, because it's not tissue damage. That's the issue, right? I'm getting this inflammatory response and it's it's really my brain's misinterpretation of what's going on. And so when it's a nervous system issue, meditation is one of the best ways to handle it, because meditation changes your brain tissue. The areas in your brain that degrade from chronic pain, they get smaller. 

Rich Bennett 6:33
Mm hmm. 

Ann Swanson 6:34
Those are the exact same areas that meditation rebuilds. Connectivity and tissue. And so meditation. 

Rich Bennett 6:39
I'm sure I say that one more time. Meditation does what, Adam? 

Ann Swanson 6:44
It rebuilds the connectivity and the density of the gray matter. The tissue gets bigger. And when we have chronic pain, the tissue actually gets smaller. And these critical areas having to do with focus and memory. That's why we tend to have like brain fog with chronic pain. No matter what your chronic pain condition is, back pain, arthritis, it can lead to that fatigue and brain fog. But meditation is a solution long term and in the moment it also helps me deal with the pain by shifting my focus. 

Rich Bennett 7:20
I'm glad you mentioned the rebuilding because there are a lot of people that think, you know, once something deteriorates, there is no rebuilding yet. And it is you can't do that. So, all right, you were going through this in college. You're going through anxiety. How did you find out about meditation and what and actually when did you start meditating? 

Ann Swanson 7:43
Well, I came to meditation through yoga and tai chi, so I was attracted to the physical practices first. And, you know, at the end of a yoga practice, you either lie down and you do this guided meditation, or you sit at the end and you do this meditation. I mean, during that time I would be looking at my watch like it is time to go. This is so boring. This can't work. I was not a natural meditator. I was not a chill person. I was type, a perfectionist and I didn't really understand it. But then over time, you know, getting more acquainted with it as they tried different techniques, I started to feel techniques that actually work for me and getting glimpses of that relaxation. So if you've tried meditation before and it didn't work for you, you might just not have been doing the technique that was best for you or best for the situation you were in. 

Rich Bennett 8:37
So for those people that are listening, that really never meditated. Or anything. Or even ago. I know they all know what yoga is because we've talked about that several times. We've talked about meditation a lot. But I don't think I don't think this question's ever been asked, what is meditation? 

Ann Swanson 9:01
Meditation is paying attention and focusing in a relaxed way. So the teacher will give you a focal point, whether it's your breath, your body sensations, a word you repeat, even something that you look at, you stare at, and you're intended to focus on that. In a relaxed way. So if your mind wanders, you don't say, Oh my gosh, I'm so bad at this. I'm you know, you don't stress about it, right? It's an in a relaxed 

Rich Bennett 9:31
Right. 

Ann Swanson 9:31
way. So meditation is a cycle. It's a process. It's not just the moment of focusing on the thing, right? Whatever you're given, it's the next step to the cycle, as you will mind wander. It's inevitable. Everybody does it. Even the most advanced meditators. It's human nature. So you'll think about what you're going to eat later today, or you'll think about what's that sound, you know, and 

Rich Bennett 9:53
Right. 

Ann Swanson 9:54
try to evaluate it. And the next step that's very critical that meditation trains us is a brain network becomes active that determines is that important or not right now. So is that sound important or not? Well, you know, if it's the sound of a fire alarm, you know what? It is important you're going to get out of the house, right? 

Rich Bennett 10:14
Yeah. 

Ann Swanson 10:15
If it's just the clicking of the radiator, you know it's not. So come back to your focal point, that training of your brain to recognize when an activity, you know, a distraction is important or not. And then to come back, that's what you're doing. It is boot camp for your focus. 

Rich Bennett 10:35
So you traveled learning about this. What are you from? India. China. God only knows where else. What are some of the biggest differences you seen in how people meditate throughout the world 

Ann Swanson 10:52
Interesting. So we can do meditative movement. Right. And one of the things in China is you'll see the older population, like on their balconies doing taichi or gentle movement, or you'll literally see them hugging trees, like getting in touch with nature. And that sort of thing we see here in the United States. Very 

Rich Bennett 11:14
now? 

Ann Swanson 11:14
good. 

So that's more common there. And in India, there's so many techniques that are derived from India. A lot of chanting is done in India. 

Rich Bennett 11:29
That's a that's a thing from India. 

Ann Swanson 11:31
Well, a variety of cultures actually do chanting. And we have some entry. 

Rich Bennett 11:35
Okay. 

Ann Swanson 11:36
Research on that, that throughout cultures, throughout history, different songs that have been sung or hymns, even in Catholic churches like Ave Maria and then chanting like in Tibet or Money Inspired me is what they say in Tibet. So there's all these 

Rich Bennett 11:53
Right. 

Ann Swanson 11:53
chanting throughout cultures. And one researcher, an Italian researcher, he looked at what are the similarities and differences between them all? And what he found is that no matter what culture, what kind of chant, what religion or spiritual background they all brought us to about six breaths per minute. So that range of 5.5 to 6 breaths per minute is known as the perfect breath. It puts us in this state of coherence and ease and relaxation. And I just think it's so cool that it doesn't matter where in the world, what culture throughout time that we intuitively have developed these practices that help us relax, to get into those spiritual states or a religious ceremony or whatever it may be. 

Rich Bennett 12:38
Wow. I yeah, because I always thought with the Channing that was strictly Tibet. 

And, you know, when I meditate. Thank God for that little Alexa thing. Because I like to play the the Tibetan bowls at that. 

Ann Swanson 12:57
Hmm. 

Rich Bennett 12:59
It just relaxes you. At least for me, it helps me. 

Ann Swanson 13:04
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 13:05
I know a day for everybody because, you know, my wife would be like, What? I'll wear on a. You know, my daughter just. That's relaxing, right? 

Ann Swanson 13:17
Yeah. I find it so relaxing too. I actually have travelled to. A bet several times and experienced that in the Dalai Lama's monastery. And. 

Rich Bennett 13:27
No way. 

Ann Swanson 13:27
Yeah. So Tibetan singing bowls and chanting is really beautiful, but many cultures do chanting throughout history, throughout time. 

Rich Bennett 13:40
Maybe that's why my daughter before me. For those of you listening. I got to tell you so, and sent me her book. And of course, I went looking for it and I couldn't find it. I think my daughter tried to take it because I'm hoping that she's reading it to learn how. But this book you have to get it's called meditation for the Real World. But it's it is to me, it's like a guidebook 

Ann Swanson 14:09
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 14:09
with the illustrations showing you how to do it, give you some history and everything, giving you some facts. And that's something that I love. And you're right, you could just sit on your coffee table, which I suggest everybody does. Don't sit it on your nightstand. Sit on your coffee table for when guests come over. They it because automat. It's just something automatic. People see something on a coffee table. They pick it up and start looking at it, you know, and that might start, you know, hopefully the start of a conversation. They're going to ask you, hey, do you meditate? But. Yeah. Oh, my 

Ann Swanson 14:42
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 14:42
God. It's helped with my arthritis. The headaches are gone. So I'm jumping the hurdle here already. But still, anyway. 

Ann Swanson 14:50
And 

Rich Bennett 14:50
And I'm 

Ann Swanson 14:50
you? 

Rich Bennett 14:50
hoping my daughter helps with her anxiety. 

Ann Swanson 14:53
Absolutely. There's meditations for everything from anxiety to chronic pain to FOMO, meditations for when you're doomscrolling, there's meditations for. 

Rich Bennett 15:04
What? 

Ann Swanson 15:04
The situations throughout the book and you flip through it and you find what you're dealing with right now. So it's more of a handbook for life. 

Rich Bennett 15:12
Right? Yeah, that's what I love about it. It's awesome, actually, in your work. So you've bridged the gap between ancient practices, which we've just talked about and modern sites. How do you navigate the challenges of integrating these sometimes contrasting worlds in a way that resonates with people today? 

Ann Swanson 15:35
Hmm. You know, the current research, the neuroscientists are just beginning to uncover what ancient people have been saying and practicing for ages. We're just now beginning to uncover these practices that have stood the test of time. Right. Yoga has stood the test of time. So has meditation. And it's it's multicultural. It's not just from one place. And there's a reason for that. It works. I've been. 

Rich Bennett 16:05
Yeah. 

Ann Swanson 16:05
Into the research for this book of ways that we can enhance our meditation practice. And I think you'll find this interesting since you love the singing bowls and that sound can be therapy. Actually, researchers call specific sounds of specific frequencies. They call them quote unquote, digital drugs. That's how powerful they are. The name of the research paper in a peer reviewed journal is Digital drugs. And so. 

Rich Bennett 16:39
How. 

Ann Swanson 16:40
Yeah, I have. I have a. Your listeners. I just dropped a meditation album and music with the guided meditations. So if you are like Rich and music helps you to be more present. I worked with a music engineer who has two master's degrees in music, and she 

engineered these sounds to optimize your brain waves for the practice. So there's different nature sounds different science backed techniques. So you can you can find out about the book and this music with the guided meditations at meditation for the real world dot com. 

Rich Bennett 17:24
I love that. That. Yeah. Because that's another thing that I love when I go to sleep. Because I can't tell Alexa to play the bowls. Because my wife. 

But one of the things that actually does help us get to sleep is and I never knew it was a thing 

was green noise and pink noise. 

Ann Swanson 17:48
Yes, I talk about that in the book and I incorporate those. 

Rich Bennett 17:52
Really? 

Ann Swanson 17:52
The meditations. Yes. 

Rich Bennett 17:55
I mean, it's amazing. 

Ann Swanson 17:57
So. 

Rich Bennett 17:59
Wow. 

Ann Swanson 18:00
Pink noise. 

Rich Bennett 18:01
Go ahead. 

Ann Swanson 18:02
Well, let's back up, because most people have heard of white noise, right? White noise is kind of like. 

Rich Bennett 18:07
The. 

Ann Swanson 18:07
Yes, The TBF. 

Rich Bennett 18:08
Well, you're too young to remember this, but. 

Ann Swanson 18:10
Now. It was my day to. 

Rich Bennett 18:13
Okay. Yeah. You didn't have 24 seven TV after, was it? I think the late night news at midnight it went off. You just had the white fuzz going across. 

Ann Swanson 18:22
Yeah, I was that. 

Rich Bennett 18:23
Yeah. 

Ann Swanson 18:23
STAMM Yes. And that sounded like a whirling fan. If you aren't familiar 

Rich Bennett 18:28
Yes. 

Ann Swanson 18:29
with that, that's also white noise. 

The combination of all different combination of all the different colors. 

Rich Bennett 18:39
Mm hmm. 

Ann Swanson 18:41
Low and high, and they all come together to mask sound Now, pink noise and brown noise in particular. Those colors of noise. Those colors. Have less of the high sort of frequencies and more low frequencies, 

Rich Bennett 19:00
Right? 

Ann Swanson 19:01
and they are more relaxing. They help with memory consolidation, sleep like you're using them, and they also help with focus. So if you use them during your meditation or even just in the background while you're working on something, it can be very relaxing and help you to get into a flow state. And so often, like if you want to think of an example of a pink noise, the sound of rainfall is pink noise, 

Rich Bennett 19:27
Yes. 

Ann Swanson 19:27
their nature sounds and then brown noise would be like, I live next to the ocean. And so you hear. 

Rich Bennett 19:35
The 

Ann Swanson 19:35
You 

Rich Bennett 19:35
way. 

Ann Swanson 19:35
hear the waves, more intense waves or a waterfall, A very intense waterfall. I love ground noise. And so they are really relaxing. And the thing is, when it's nature sounds, your brain doesn't know the difference between you being in nature and you hearing it. So it brings in that same relaxation as if you really are in nature, that healing effect. 

Rich Bennett 20:00
Yes. Don't get upset, people. If you you know, you play. Was it raining on a tent? A you wake up in your own bedroom, you know, like in a tent here. Because even if you ever been camping, it's to me that's sometimes that's been the best sleep in the tent is we have that. Not a heavy rain, but that light rain. 

Ann Swanson 20:23
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 20:23
On the. 

Ann Swanson 20:25
I love the sound of rainfall. 

Rich Bennett 20:26
So relaxing. So relaxing. 

Something very important. And I'm sure you've heard it. Well, I hope you've heard it in your wife. Hello. I never hope you hear, but I know you hear it. What do you tell these people? That 

they say they would love to meditate, but they never have the time? 

Ann Swanson 20:52
Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. It's funny too, because meditation actually expands your time ironically, because you begin to be able to prioritize better. It's like you're step back and you become an observer of everything and it becomes very clear when you listen to your body and you even listen to your thoughts that you can understand what are my priorities. So a lot of times after meditation you'll have like clarity. I'll do meditation before I do my list of things to do for the day, because I'm able to then look down at it and like be a lot clearer up. I can cross that off. I didn't really want to do that anyways. So ironically, it expands your time, but you don't really have to sit for meditation for 20 minutes a day to get the benefits, although that's great. You do that and you incorporate that into your day. I think similar to the research showing on an exercise, you know, we if we do these little 

Rich Bennett 21:48
Yeah, 

Ann Swanson 21:48
movement snacks, these little breaks through the day, it's better for our blood sugar, it's better for circulation, it's better for our brain. Same thing with meditation. And one of the highlights of the book is one minute meditations or even one breath meditations, you know, in the moment, right when you need it. If you are about to yell at your kids, you're so frustrated. That's when a one, two, three deep breaths is going to make the world of difference, where you can check in with your body and then one minute meditations you can fit right before you press, except on that zoom call and you have an important meeting or before you press, send on that kind of stressful email, you know, roll your chair around, look away from the screen for a moment, check in, notice what you feel in your body, because ultimately, 

Rich Bennett 22:39
right. 

Ann Swanson 22:40
you know the right thing to do in every situation. We're just often ignoring that intuition. Your body and and meditation gets you in touch with that. 

Rich Bennett 22:52
All right. How many times do you meditate during the day? 

Ann Swanson 22:55
With these, like one breath, one minute meditations constantly. Now, because I have cues throughout my day. For example, if anybody has a glass of water next to you, take that water and take a sip. 

Feel the coolness or warmth down your throat and imagine it cleansing you. This is what I call the hydration meditation. Sometimes I'll even close my eyes as I feel it going down. And I do this between different activities. So say I just finished one meeting and I'm about to go in another. It's like cleansing. I let go of whatever just happened and I'm arriving to the next thing. Plus, it helps you stay hydrated. So it's a. 

Rich Bennett 23:38
Right. 

Ann Swanson 23:39
So I integrate these little moments into my day because we all know that we should be more mindful, more present, more in flow and in the zone through the day. However, it's easier said than done. We need a technique to put 

Rich Bennett 23:54
Right. 

Ann Swanson 23:54
us back there, write the advice, just be mindful all the time. It's not that practical. Of course. We want to be mindful all the time, but we need these resets like a reset button for your nervous system. It's this like reset. 

Rich Bennett 24:09
With what you just said there with the water and you just pitcher go a day and feel it. But a lot of people have like they have a hard time trying to focus on that. Is there a technique to where it's simple, it's easier for them to, well, I guess learn how to focus on it, because that's one of the things. You know, you're taught a meditation is find your focal point, but when it's within your body, it's different. You're not looking at something. 

Ann Swanson 24:38
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 24:39
How do you do that? 

Ann Swanson 24:40
I do find it if I close my eyes, it helps because when you block one sense, then the other senses in your body turn up. Just like somebody who is blind has this very acute sense of touch and and hearing. Right. Those those turn up. So if you're comfortable to close your eyes for a moment, if it's a safe time to do so, then you can close your eyes to to be more aware of your body sensations. 

Rich Bennett 25:10
I the analogy you just use there for being blind. 

Ann Swanson 25:13
Mm hmm. 

Rich Bennett 25:15
That's that was the perfect way to explain it. I would have never thought about that. 

Ann Swanson 25:19
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 25:20
But using your different senses. I love that. So how actually, how can meditation help you learn to learn everything better? 

Ann Swanson 25:29
It's funny. Meditation is quite a matter. It helps us. Yes, it is. It helps us think about thinking better. So you begin to step back and like, Oh, wait, this is my thinking. And you become aware of your thinking and you become aware of your awareness, which is also quite meta that we call that meta awareness and metacognition, the ability to think about thinking and be aware of your awareness. And those meta skills, according to researchers, are what help us in education and in learning to learn to learn anything better. This is a really hot topic in talking about education and how to learn 

Rich Bennett 26:15
Right. 

Ann Swanson 26:15
is building skills that help you learn everything, that help you focus and be present with whatever you're being delivered so that you can have better memory. 

Rich Bennett 26:27
Okay, so 

with you, the meditation helped with your anxiety. It helped if your chronic pain. Have you. It. To me, I think this would be a challenge. Have you ever worked with anybody and taught them how to meditate? That somebody has ADHD? 

Ann Swanson 26:52
Yes. Meditation. 

Rich Bennett 26:54
Really? 

Ann Swanson 26:55
Really helpful for ADHD. I talk about that in a section of the book about children, because most of the research has been done on children with ADHD. Yes. And so meditation actually can help them realize that ADHD is a gift because, yes, they're not going to be able to necessarily like not be able to they're not going to want to focus on things they're not interested in. That's part of what ADHD 

Rich Bennett 27:20
Right. 

Ann Swanson 27:21
is. You are 

Rich Bennett 27:22
Right. 

Ann Swanson 27:22
when you're interested in something, you can focus. So meditation can teach them how to turn on and off that super skill. They have a focus better in a way that's more intentional. 

Rich Bennett 27:36
What about what about those? Well, let's say autism. 

Ann Swanson 27:39
Mm hmm. 

Rich Bennett 27:40
I'm just thinking of like I've had different people on on my show and. 

So let me explain why I'm asking a lot of these questions about these different things. 

Ann Swanson 27:52
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 27:53
I've had people on. We've talked about autism, ADHD, Potts Syndrome. 

Ann Swanson 28:00
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 28:00
I think it is the other one I'm going to mess up. See something chronic, something pain syndrome. And at lupus. 

Ann Swanson 28:10
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 28:11
Fibromyalgia. And I know I have a lot of them are always looking for ways to help themselves. 

Can meditation help with all of it? Or at least a majority of it. 

Ann Swanson 28:28
I actually have a diagnosis of fibromyalgia. That would be another chronic pain condition and 

Rich Bennett 28:34
You 

Ann Swanson 28:34
that I do. And so meditation is a particularly helpful with fibromyalgia because it's a central nervous system disorder. It's a misinterpretation of those signals. Like I mentioned earlier. And so meditation is going to be helpful, honestly, for pretty much anything. But we don't always have research 

Rich Bennett 28:56
write. 

Ann Swanson 28:56
to support at all, like with autism. I have looked into that and we don't have very much research on meditation and autism, but I can imagine, you know, depending on the person, a different technique, trying different techniques, just like for any of us, but trying different techniques that are helpful for that person. You know, with autism, I would say possibly or ADHD or just anybody is really, really challenged with focus, bringing it in to be tactile. So whether you place your hands on your heart and feel your physical heart or another way of meditating is with your hands, you touch your thumb to the pointer finger, to the very tip of it, and then to the middle finger. And then you open and then you touch the thumb to the ring finger and open and then the pinky finger and you just move from one finger to the other. And there's some traditional things you can say, or sometimes I just say intentions. So the pointer finger would be calm, patient and then confident, very ring finger intuitive and just repeat, calm, patient, confident, intuitive as you go through touching each of those fingers. So something tactile could be really helpful. So I would say trying different techniques, and that's why I integrate integrated hundreds of techniques in meditation for the real world, because we need a variety of them for different situations and different people. 

Rich Bennett 30:28
All right with what you do, because, I mean, this is your job, your full time job, the well, yoga, meditation, right? 

Ann Swanson 30:37
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 30:38
Do you do you all for? 

Well, I don't know if a, B classes or one on one coaching or anything like that with people virtually or just strictly where you're at. You do. 

Ann Swanson 30:52
Is what I do. I actually have only done virtually for many years well before the pandemic, 

Rich Bennett 30:57
Okay. 

Ann Swanson 30:57
because I work with people dealing with chronic pain. And guess what? When you have chronic pain, it is hard to drive somewhere in the ice and find parking and walk up the stairs. Right. So it works out better when you can do it in your own home with your own props and use, you know, your couch cushion rather than having to buy something. So I've I've always worked with people in their homes. And I also have programs where we can do meditations with me from home and audio guided meditations as well as the physical practices. 

Rich Bennett 31:30
What about dos? 

Oh, God. I wish I had some. A couple of my particular co-hosts on right now. What about for those that are in recovery? Have you worked with any of them? 

Ann Swanson 31:43
Yes, Meditation can be so helpful for addiction. Think about it this way. With addiction, we're seeking to fill a void and we're actually seeking dopamine. We want this rush. We're seeking feel good chemicals that motivation chemical. We're seeking it now. Meditation allows you to have access to your inner pharmacy in your brain. Everything that's available in a pill format is available in your brain. We're just mimicking them in these pills, right? So if you can use meditation over time, you're going to have more balance of all of the hormones and and neurotransmitters and feel good chemicals in your own brain. So serotonin, which is a happiness chemical that becomes balanced and increases uptake as well as dopamine becomes balanced. So you're less like taken by those hits in dopamine. Is that motivation chemical responsible and addiction? So meditation is critical, I think as part of a cure for for addiction and recovery. 

Rich Bennett 33:00
Something you just mentioned there. And I never thought about this, but you said you're your inner pharmacy. 

Ann Swanson 33:05
Hmm. 

Rich Bennett 33:07
So when you were going through the anxiety and all that chronic pain and fibromyalgia to God, that just blew me away. How many before you started getting into meditation? How many different prescriptions were you on, or do you even know? 

Ann Swanson 33:23
Well, most of my clients have five or more health conditions, and their list of medication is so, so long. And one medication. 

Rich Bennett 33:33
Right 

Ann Swanson 33:33
This side effect and that side effect. 

Rich Bennett 33:35
that. 

Ann Swanson 33:36
I'm I'm lucky enough that I was introduced to these techniques before I jumped onto the medication train and. 

Rich Bennett 33:44
Okay. 

Ann Swanson 33:44
Dealt with those side effects from a very young age. Right out of college, I was doing my travels through through Asia, seeking solutions to my anxiety and chronic pain. However, I see this really commonly. I mean that there's a pill for everything, a pill for sleeping, melatonin pills. But the thing is, your brain creates melatonin. You want to know how to get the melatonin. You go when the sun is setting and you look at the sun set the reds in the sun set. And I have this in the book because you can meditate during that time to optimize your meditation practice. The reds in the sunset are going to tell your brain to release melatonin. And it's the right amount for you. And then what you have to do is when you go back inside is you want to make sure that you turn down the lights. And ideally, even using lights that are more reddish, like mimicking candlelight. If you think about it, that's what our ancient ancestors would have. The sun would set. And then after that, only candlelight. So only warm lights turn off all the overhead lights. I actually use red light bulbs in all my lamps that I turn on in the evening after the sun has set. And you want to limit screen exposure or. Honestly, most people don't even know that you can go on your phone and turn on iPhones. It's night shift. It's what's called an after sunset. You set the night shift, you go to settings, search the word night shift on an iPhone. It's different for other types of phones. And you set it so that whenever the sun sets after that, your phone becomes more red. So if you look at your 

Rich Bennett 35:25
Really? 

Ann Swanson 35:25
phone, you should do this to your iPad, your computer screen, everything, so that when you look at your phone, it's this reddish tone you're not going to notice at night during the day, it's bright blue, blue light, horrible 

Rich Bennett 35:37
Yeah. 

Ann Swanson 35:37
blue light tells your brain to release cortisol, which is a stress hormone. And that tells your brain to bring down melatonin. So everybody's scrolling on their phone, taking a pill for melatonin. But really, if we can meditate and look at the sun set, then we're going to be producing the right amount of melatonin for you. 

Rich Bennett 36:01
I've tried to find it on my 

Ann Swanson 36:03
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 36:03
way down. 

Ann Swanson 36:04
Oh, Android. 

Rich Bennett 36:05
Look. 

Ann Swanson 36:05
I was type the word night because sometimes it's called different like night mode. 

Rich Bennett 36:10
Yeah. 

Ann Swanson 36:12
That. That's what I would maybe search to look that up. What is it on? 

Rich Bennett 36:15
I'm the dumb guy trying to use a smart phone, that's why. 

Ann Swanson 36:19
But basically you want it to be kind of reddish after the sun, 

Rich Bennett 36:23
Yeah. 

Ann Swanson 36:23
like it'll look, the phone will look reddish, but your eyes adjust and it's better for you that way. 

Rich Bennett 36:29
I'm glad you said that, because I had no idea. And recently I just bought some of these the smart LED bulbs for inside the house for. When we went away and I took them all out. Now that we're home, but I'm maybe I'll put them back in because I with the app, I can set it. 

Ann Swanson 36:47
To be read. 

Rich Bennett 36:48
To where? Yes. 

Ann Swanson 36:50
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 36:52
And you can actually set that also to go to that at certain times of the day. 

Ann Swanson 36:57
Yes, Jeff. 

Rich Bennett 37:00
I'm going to have to do that. 

Ann Swanson 37:01
Set it to 

Rich Bennett 37:01
I. 

Ann Swanson 37:01
be red and dim a little bit dimmer. Because if you think about a candle. 

Rich Bennett 37:05
Right. 

Ann Swanson 37:06
Damn, I have even, like, nightlights in my bathroom. Because if you go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, you turn on your light, boom, your melatonin has just dropped down. You have a hard time getting back to sleep. Never turn on the overhead lights in the middle of the night. Also, ideally, you don't look at your screen, but if you have the night shift or the red filter on your screen, then you're going to be a lot better off. But I have a nightlight that's. 

Rich Bennett 37:27
Wow. 

Ann Swanson 37:28
So that could be really helpful. 

Rich Bennett 37:31
Yeah, well. Which is one of the reasons. When we were in the when I was in the Marine Corps. You never use a flashlight at night. Well, you do, but you always had a red filter on. 

Ann Swanson 37:45
Read setting up. 

Rich Bennett 37:47
Yes. Now I know why. I mean. Well, of course I knew why then, but it wasn't. They didn't say for meditation. That. 

Ann Swanson 37:55
Ramallah, Tel. In. 

Rich Bennett 37:57
Yeah, I heard about her. Yeah, actually. What would you say to someone who is skeptical about the benefits of meditation? Perhaps due to their. Well, anything because, you know, you always have the naysayers out. Meditation does. They've been doing it for centuries now. I'm sorry. Well, what would you say? It's peaceful. They just irk me. I'm sorry. Berkeley. 

Ann Swanson 38:27
Yeah, it's good to have a healthy sense of skepticism and curiosity. And I, as a scientist, am one of those people, right? I was like, I need to know the research. I need to know, like, why it works, how it works. I'm constantly asking why I'm not just going to take it because, you know, the woo woo said it works. But honestly, there is some science behind a lot of this. Will. We're starting to uncover it, some of it not so much. And that's what I like to differentiate through science. And so I would say that in the last two decades there has been an exponential growth in research. And this is not in small, you know, the middle of nowhere community colleges. This is at Harvard University. Yale top institutions all throughout the world are studying meditation. Neuroscientists are focusing their career on it because it works. The results are profound. And the journals that are publishing this are top tier publications like Science are publishing this meditation research. I worked with Dr. Sarah Elazar, who is a neuroscientist at Harvard on Meditation for the Real World, and she advised on the cutting edge research within here. So I would say to the skeptics, you know, or if you have a family member that's a skeptic or a friend, that's a skeptic, get them meditation for the real world, because it explains the science in a in a way that you can understand and then how to actually do it. It's not like the meditation books that are just like all science and no practice. It is step by step practices. 

Rich Bennett 40:07
How long did it take you to write this book? 

Ann Swanson 40:11
You know, my publisher gives you. Everybody is always shocked when they hear this three months to write a book, three months to edit it. 

It's it's it's intense. Not only was I meditating a lot, but we're. But excuse me, but like, working a lot, you know, 80 hour workweek. So I had to meditate to rejuvenate through this. It is very intense. But I you know, through my studies, through getting a master's of science and yoga therapy and then writing science of yoga, which incorporates a lot of meditation research. I already had a lot of research read on the topic. And then with my clinical practice as a yoga therapist and a practitioner. So it's gathering all the information and I'm putting it together to, to be in this accessible format. But, you know, sometimes magic is made in short periods of time. It is magic in the madness. My last book was the same, and I've heard from other authors from this publisher. It is. It is like that. 

Rich Bennett 41:11
Well, it's a good thing you know how to meditate, because meditation probably helped you write this. 

Ann Swanson 41:16
It really did. I had to put it to practice constantly. Especially when you're under high levels of stress. Meditation isn't going to 

Rich Bennett 41:22
Oh, 

Ann Swanson 41:22
make 

Rich Bennett 41:23
yeah. 

Ann Swanson 41:23
it so all stress goes away. It makes it so you can handle those stressors. I was able to take on that work and and able to find balance and check in and notice when I was going to get burnt out. So you can manage your energy better with meditation. 

Rich Bennett 41:40
Right. 

Ann Swanson 41:41
It's, you know, it's not going to make you like some monk that doesn't care about your career. Like, it can be integrated into the real world. Listen, I was never a monk or a nun. I have always been like a real person with a career, you know, and in the real world. 

Rich Bennett 42:03
When was this one released? 

Ann Swanson 42:05
This was released a month ago. It's brand new. 

Rich Bennett 42:09
Oh, wow. 

Ann Swanson 42:09
Yeah, Just out. 

Rich Bennett 42:11
And how are sales how are sales going so far? 

Ann Swanson 42:15
It's going good. Just getting the word out there. I think that really 

Rich Bennett 42:18
Right. 

Ann Swanson 42:18
the way to get the word out there is people seeing it writing reviews and then buying it for others. It is that gift book and gifting the gift of meditation. If we have more meditators in the world, this world will be a more peaceful place. So I feel very driven to get 

Rich Bennett 42:33
Yes. 

Ann Swanson 42:33
the word out there. 

Rich Bennett 42:37
Well, besides podcasts, what else are you doing to market the book? 

Ann Swanson 42:42
Hmm. That's a good question. 

Rich Bennett 42:45
Or is the publishing company handling? 

Ann Swanson 42:48
I write articles to. 

Speaking is my top thing because I find that with meditation, you know, you can hear it through my voice. We you can do it. We could do a meditation right now, and you'll experience it. So just, just getting out there and speaking. What would you like to do a meditation for? We can do a one minute meditation. You name the topic, I'll come up with one on the spot. 

Rich Bennett 43:13
Back pain. 

Ann Swanson 43:15
Back pain. Let's do it. 

Rich Bennett 43:17
Something I always have. 

Ann Swanson 43:19
Okay. We're going to do a quick one minute, 2 minutes max meditation for back pain or really this can be helpful for any pain that you may be dealing with right now. So I want you to notice your posture in whatever position you're in and take a moment and do a little wiggles, do some intuitive movement. Maybe maybe there's a stretch you need to do. 

Rich Bennett 43:45
Yeah. Something just cracked that felt good. 

Ann Swanson 43:47
You got to crack something and sit up a little taller, though you might even want to readjust your posture. So you have a pillow behind you. Do whatever you need to get comfortable. You could even lie down for a moment. If you're if you're driving, just sit a little taller. Keep your eyes open. Right. Adapt it for whatever you're doing right now. And then just settle into stillness for a moment. If it's safe to do so. When you're comfortable, you're welcome to close your eyes and bring your attention to your breath. 

No need to change it. Just the natural breath. It might change spontaneously on its own. Just through you observing it, 

feel your breath moving in and out of your nostrils 

and then feel it moving up and down your throat. 

Maybe if you play, pay close attention. You can even hear it, 

feel it, moving your rib cage three dimensionally, maybe subtly, maybe more dramatically. Whatever is happening, notice. 

So not only does your chest and abdomen move with the breath, but also your back body bring your attention to the back of your ribcage and even your lower back 

and how it moves with your breath. 

Now you can make the next few breaths a little fuller, if that's more comfortable to enhance that movement as if it were a massage to your back. 

And you may even want to make the exhales a little longer than the inhales really releasing out and letting go 

with the next few exhales 

feel your body releasing any tension that you're holding 

the shoulders drop 

round the back releases 

and you can continue this breath of nice long exhales, enhancing that sense of releasing as we continue speaking. 

Notice how you feel. 

Notice the results. 

Rich Bennett 47:04
And 

that actually felt good. 

I did that. Really? Because, I mean, I have I go to the chiropractor every six weeks and lately my lower back has just been like, I cannot wait to get on that table, get stretched. But all that that we just did. Like a major release. It 

Ann Swanson 47:30
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 47:30
felt good. 

Ann Swanson 47:32
And there's several reasons why we just did. 

Why is that? Ironically, when we're experiencing pain, we try to not listen to our body, right? We try to numb it out, whether it's taking a pill that numbs it out. And of course, there's times when we're in acute, intense pain. We got to take the pill or do what we need to do to distract, to no matter out. Absolutely. There's nothing wrong with those times. But when it becomes chronic, when it's all the time, you can't just live in a state of being numb. We know that. 

Rich Bennett 48:04
No. 

Ann Swanson 48:04
Even Tylenol. It numbs your body and it helps with pain. It also numbs your mind, which means you don't feel the down feelings, but you also don't feel the happiness as intensely. So we don't want to numb out all the time. So instead, ironically, paying attention to the pain and listening to your body changes the pain. I've experienced this a lot with my. My intense chronic pain is that when I really pay attention to it, I'm like, okay, this isn't just quote unquote pain. This is pulsation. This is blood flow. This is me, my body asking me to move, to change my position. Right. This is some. 

Rich Bennett 48:48
Right. 

Ann Swanson 48:48
Wisdom. Your body is speaking to you. That's what the pain is. And whether it's asking you to move, to drink more water, to sleep more, whatever it may be, asking you to do meditation takes a moment to get in touch with that. And then a couple of other mechanisms that were working. Is that a longer exhale that puts you into the parasympathetic nervous system? State that rest, digest and rejuvenate, which is that healing state and relaxation state. So that's going to be better for your pain because pain tends to be that sympathetic nervous system that heightened. 

Rich Bennett 49:20
Right. 

Ann Swanson 49:21
Stage. And also we tend to be breathing and just our upper chest a stress breast right her that kind of upper chest just moves. When we bring the breath down. We allow not only her abdomen, 

Rich Bennett 49:35
That's. 

Ann Swanson 49:36
but I don't think enough people talk about how the low back is. 

Rich Bennett 49:39
The back. 

Ann Swanson 49:40
It's not just belly breathing. It's low back breathing. Your back should move. We watch a baby breathe, or even your cat or dog and their whole body moves right. We need to go back to that, our society to sort of suck it in, you know? But really, we want to allow that breath to go down to the depths of our lungs. And when it does that, it massages the organs and massages the muscles down there with the diaphragm pressing against them. It's so much better for your health. 

Rich Bennett 50:10
With and the longer exhales. I've never done that. 

Ann Swanson 50:14
Mm. 

Rich Bennett 50:14
I've usually. When. Now, keep in mind, too, when I first started, I was breathing in through my nose and exhaling out my mouth. And then somebody said, No, breathe in through your knees. No news. Breathe in through your nose. Exhale out of your news. Then even when I was doing yoga, I would do breathing exercises first before I did, you know, before I started doing my yoga. And I would do that breathing, but I would try to get it to the point where I would could take in a breath for 10 seconds. Hold it for ten, Release it for ten. I would start doing yoga. I never tried to exhale longer than I took it in that. 

Ann Swanson 51:00
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 51:01
But you could do that. I was shocked just sitting here doing that. Now, as I and you said, I was like, you might give me an exhale longer than I. 

Ann Swanson 51:12
And ideally, even if 

Rich Bennett 51:13
Wow. 

Ann Swanson 51:13
you could do it like twice as long. So say you're inhales three counts, 

Rich Bennett 51:17
Yeah. 

Ann Swanson 51:17
your exhale six, four counts, eight counts. It doesn't have to be exactly If four and six works better for you, you can do that. But trying to really elongate those exhale for some people, they like to count. For some people, it's easier to just let it be, you know, So do whatever feels best for you. But that's where I integrate those one breath meditations into my day all the time. And you can do it while you're talking to someone. You could do these 

Rich Bennett 51:42
Yes. 

Ann Swanson 51:42
this breathing technique when somebody is really stressing you out. Make the exhales twice as long or just longer than the inhales. I actually do this breathing technique of longer exhales every time I wash my hands, especially in a public restroom. So it's a reset. So instead of singing Happy Birthday Twice to myself, which like hooray, singing Happy Birthday to you is the weirdest thing. So instead of doing that, you know, the recommended amount of time is 20 seconds. So I'm going to inhale for four counts, exhale for six counts, and I'm gonna do that twice. And you can then take that moment and feel the cleansing effects. And it's so much more relaxing, especially in the hectic hustle bustle of being in a public restroom. 

Rich Bennett 52:34
I like that idea that that's. Is that in your book, too? 

Ann Swanson 52:40
I don't know if that one made it in, but I have tons of one minute meditations like that. You know, sometimes there's 

Rich Bennett 52:45
I 

Ann Swanson 52:45
not 

Rich Bennett 52:45
was. 

Ann Swanson 52:45
no space. I don't know if that one made it in. 

Rich Bennett 52:48
I think there may be another third book on the way. Just. One minute meditations. 

Ann Swanson 52:56
I think that's a good idea. One more. 

Rich Bennett 52:58
Actually is there. Have you started working on a third book yet or are you taking a little break first? 

Ann Swanson 53:03
I'm in negotiations. 

Rich Bennett 53:07
Well, I had a feeling. I had a feeling. Actually, have you even thought about starting a podcast about doing all this as well? 

Ann Swanson 53:15
Several podcast hosts have told me that it looks like a lot of work. I'm very impressed by you, Rich and all the other podcast host that stick with this. 

Rich Bennett 53:26
But here's the thing. I mean, this is something that a lot of people get into podcasting that they don't understand. You don't have to do a 30 minute podcast. You don't have to do a one hour podcast. You don't have to be like my man Joe Rogan to do a three hour podcast. You have the perfect podcast, and it would only take 2 minutes each time, and that's doing the one minute things. 

Ann Swanson 53:51
Yeah. The the many. 

Rich Bennett 53:52
Yeah. I say to one minute things the one minute bit. That's why you got the name of your podcast right there. 

Ann Swanson 54:00
One minute meditations. I love it. That's a good idea. Watch out for. 

Rich Bennett 54:03
I think you should. I think you should, because and guess what else? It's also going to push people to the board. 

Ann Swanson 54:11
Yeah, definitely. 

Rich Bennett 54:13
Does it take as much time to do it? 

Ann Swanson 54:16
You know, I have a YouTube channel. It's an Swanson 

Rich Bennett 54:19
Yes. 

Ann Swanson 54:20
Wellness and. 

Rich Bennett 54:21
Got to it. 

Ann Swanson 54:21
So I mainly do YouTube. I could also do them as short videos on there too. So you're getting. 

Rich Bennett 54:27
Yeah. 

Ann Swanson 54:28
Getting me thinking. 

Rich Bennett 54:30
Get on there putting on TikTok Instagram reels. 

Ann Swanson 54:32
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 54:33
Or put it everywhere. You still have the link to your book in the bio? You know, so before before I get to my last question, is there a I told you before we started recording, you're going to have to come on again, because I would. There's so much more I could talk to you about, but is there anything you would like to add before I get to my last question? Second to last question, I should say. 

Ann Swanson 54:58
I don't know. I think you've been asking such great questions. You've gotten things out of me that I haven't revealed in other in other interviews. So, yeah, I'm just looking forward to your last question. 

Rich Bennett 55:11
Well, I was going to ask the second last question, but I forgot since you're. For those of you listening, we're recording this on March 13th. And and is getting married tomorrow. 

Ann Swanson 55:24
I. Yeah, that's. 

Rich Bennett 55:26
So I can't really ask the question that I would. Yeah, it would be kind of hard to ask. So you wouldn't be able to answer that. 

Ann Swanson 55:34
I'm getting married tomorrow, but I want to. We planned the wedding for Friday. It was. We're getting eloped, so we planned it for Friday. And then I realized it was the Ides of March. I was like, That sounds 

Rich Bennett 55:50
Oh. 

Ann Swanson 55:50
ominous, but tomorrow, March 14th is Pi day, so we're going to have pi 3.1 for pi day. 

Rich Bennett 56:02
Look, the only thing I remember about March. Saint Patrick's Day on March. 

That well on Easter falls this year, too. But, you know, we always think of Easter in April. 

March is St Patrick's Day. 

Ann Swanson 56:21
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 56:21
Why I should wait until Sunday. 

Ann Swanson 56:25
Yeah, well, I wanted to do it. 

Rich Bennett 56:27
You don't want to do. 

Ann Swanson 56:28
As soon as possible. Paydays call. 

Rich Bennett 56:30
Oh, she had, if you don't mind me asking, how did you meet your husband? 

Ann Swanson 56:35
I met him dancing. 

Yeah, I, 

Rich Bennett 56:40
Really? 

Ann Swanson 56:40
I love this because most people make it on, you know, apps nowadays. And we met 

Rich Bennett 56:45
Right. 

Ann Swanson 56:45
out in the real world. We met dancing. 

Rich Bennett 56:51
What kind of dancing? 

Ann Swanson 56:52
We went, it was like salsa dancing at an Arthur Murray's studio. 

Rich Bennett 56:57
No. Oh, come on. 

Ann Swanson 56:58
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 57:01
Or is there something. Is there any other hidden secrets about you? I mean, doing salsa dancing? I'll be traveling around the world. 

Ann Swanson 57:10
Well, now we do tango. That's mainly what we do. Now that's. That's more our thing. 

Rich Bennett 57:17
Yeah, that's something I would love to try to do is ballroom dance. 

I mean, now I get up from the chair. I sound like a bowl of Rice Krispies, so I don't know how It has been a long, 

long, long time since I've. But I would just love to do that. God, I got to try that. 

Ann Swanson 57:36
And the thing 

Rich Bennett 57:37
So 

Ann Swanson 57:37
is. 

Rich Bennett 57:37
my last. 

Ann Swanson 57:38
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 57:38
Go ahead. 

Ann Swanson 57:38
I was never too late to learn. 

Rich Bennett 57:40
Never too late. 

Ann Swanson 57:41
Yeah, there's 

Rich Bennett 57:42
You're 

Ann Swanson 57:42
people 

Rich Bennett 57:42
right. 

Ann Swanson 57:42
that learn tango dancing when they're much older and actually on the dance floor for tango, it's always the older people that are better. Like it's one of those things you get better with age. Salsa dancing 

Rich Bennett 57:54
Yeah. 

Ann Swanson 57:54
tends to be more young person dance because it's harder on your knees. But tango changes when you can learn like Taichi, you get better with age. 

Rich Bennett 58:04
That's something else I want to try as chi for my last question. Actually, do you even know how many packets you've been on now? 

Ann Swanson 58:13
I don't know. 

Rich Bennett 58:15
I know it's been a lot. 

Ann Swanson 58:17
A lot of them haven't come out yet, so. 

Rich Bennett 58:20
No. Well, you just started doing them in February. 

Ann Swanson 58:23
I just started. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 58:26
And I think you've already been, I want to say, close to almost 20. 

Ann Swanson 58:32
Yeah, but that's probably true. I'm really enjoying it. So my first book, Science of Yoga, I wrote it and I basically I set a world tour because it's going to be in 15 different languages. So I had things booked in Japan and Germany and I sold everything I owned to live on the road for a year and go on this world tour. I made it to South America. And then guess what happened? Pandemic? 

Rich Bennett 59:01
Corbett 

Ann Swanson 59:01
Yup. 

Rich Bennett 59:02
Oh, God. Whitman You weren't stuck down there for a while, were you? 

Ann Swanson 59:05
No, I made it back. And 

Rich Bennett 59:07
Oh, 

Ann Swanson 59:07
and I ended up because I sold everything. I didn't have anywhere to live. I ended up in my mom's basement, which is not where I thought I was going to be at that point in my life. 

Rich Bennett 59:15
wow. 

Ann Swanson 59:16
And I went on vacation after a while when it when things calmed down, I went to Hawaii for a couple of weeks on vacation and then I just ended up staying because life was better here. So. 

Rich Bennett 59:30
I know I can't answer my last question because I've got to ask you something else. I meant to ask you this earlier, and I love to ask this to people that travel around the world. 

Ann Swanson 59:37
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 59:39
The cuisine. I've always, always say where if you go to another country, even in the United States, other states, you have to try the cuisine from that area, which I hope you did. But what was your favorite? What was your favorite cuisine that you tried and from where? And then what was the most unusual? 

Ann Swanson 59:58
Oh, yes. Well, unusual is going to be in China when I lived there. Obviously, there's like, you know, you get a scorpion on a stick, sort of crazy. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:07
That's actually good. 

Ann Swanson 1:00:08
Yeah. Yeah. They're crispy. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:11
Yeah, 

Ann Swanson 1:00:11
Favorite. I mean, I love Japanese food, I love seafood. And so Japan would definitely be a favorite as well as I lived in Peru. And they have some of the best restaurants in the world, like they have more on the top ten 

Rich Bennett 1:00:26
he. 

Ann Swanson 1:00:26
or 20. Than than other countries. And so Peruvian food is really good, too. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:32
All right. So were you in when you were in Japan? Did you were you able to get the pufferfish? 

Ann Swanson 1:00:37
No, that sounds too scary. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:40
Well, it's very deadly. And you only have certain there's a chef has to go through a special course to be able to do it. But. 

Ann Swanson 1:00:50
It's good. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:51
I was. Yeah, I was in Okinawa, Japan, and some of the best food I ever had was there for some. I actually the first time I ever tried eel. 

Ann Swanson 1:01:00
Oh, yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:01
Was there as well. 

Ann Swanson 1:01:02
I heard the. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:03
Yeah, but. 

Ann Swanson 1:01:03
Chef has to. If somebody dies eating his puffer fish, he has to kill himself. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:10
I want to be surprised because although I've never heard of anybody dying from it. 

Ann Swanson 1:01:15
It can happen. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:17
Yeah. Oh, yeah. It can definitely happen. Well, same with that scorpion stick if it's not dead. 

Ann Swanson 1:01:23
Yeah. 

Yeah, but, I mean, I was going to travel the world for science of yoga. And when that didn't happen, you know, and this book came out, I was like, I'm going to do a podcast where I'm going to go all virtual. So I've been having so much fun meeting people like you all around the world and chatting with you from the comfort of my my home in Hawaii. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:45
And I tell authors this all the time, especially local authors, admit that you have to get on. I like to call it the podcast circuit because it's free marketing. You don't have to pay and you shouldn't pay to. By this show. And the great thing is me being a host. I love doing it because I, I learn from all my guests. I learned a lot from you today. You even made my back feel good. 

Ann Swanson 1:02:13
Oh. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:15
It did. It's just I never would have thought about the one minute meditations. That the the things that you mentioned like with the your your inner pharmacy in your head, I mean this is stuff I would have never even thought of. A lot of people probably don't even know about. And, you know, and I know if I'm learning something, my listeners are learning something, you know, so. Yeah. God, keep doing all the. 

Ann Swanson 1:02:42
Oh, that's so sweet. And if your listeners want to learn how to meditate, I have those audio guided meditations for them as a free gift. When you get meditation for the real world, so just go to meditation for the real world. Dotcom. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:59
Oh, I'm glad you said that, because I would say an answer. And Swanson? Well, NASSCOM. 

Ann Swanson 1:03:05
The direct link if you want to go right to the page is meditation for the real world dot com. But my name is Anne Swanson. My main website. Yes is my name. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:14
So at both of those links in the show notes. 

Ann Swanson 1:03:17
Yeah. And that's the reason my partner is is changing his name rather than me. I have the CEO, I have the published books, and he's in between careers, so it works out. He's applying for jobs and changing careers right now. So I just changed his name. And, you know, we want to have our whole family have the same name. So I'm so lucky that he's willing to do that. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:37
So he should become one of your coaches. 

Yoga is like. I want him working with me. 

Ann Swanson 1:03:45
He did start meditating when I started writing the book, like really committing to a daily. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:51
Oh, good. 

Ann Swanson 1:03:52
And he he's army and was a. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:56
Oh, really? 

Ann Swanson 1:03:56
A really, really stressful job, and he began to see huge differences in his focus. It was beyond everyone else's productivity. His resilience, his ability to handle challenging conversations and road rage. His road rage got a lot better. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:16
The right. How how long did he served in the Army for? 

Ann Swanson 1:04:19
He was in for eight years. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:22
All the hosts that have spoken to you or that you've spoken with. Is there anything a host has never asked that you wish they would have asked you? And if so, what would be their question and what would be your answer? 

Ann Swanson 1:04:37
Such a good question that once again, you asked the best questions I have. I have revealed so much more on this podcast from my marriage tomorrow to him changing his name that I've not revealed on any other podcast. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:51
Well, thank 

Ann Swanson 1:04:52
Goodness. 

You know, 

I think you asked all the right questions. I feel complete. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:05
Well, see this? You know what this means. 

Ann Swanson 1:05:08
What? 

Rich Bennett 1:05:09
You'll have to come on again. And this gives you enough time to think of. You'll be on other podcasts or you'll be like that question Rich asked me before. Nobody's ever asked me a question that I thought about yet. 

Ann Swanson 1:05:24
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:25
You know what? 

Ann Swanson 1:05:25
I'm 

Rich Bennett 1:05:26
Some 

Ann Swanson 1:05:26
it. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:26
people, when I ask that question, some people throw me for a loop. Because I had one guy come back and say, Well, yeah, nobody's ever asked me what my favorite color is. I'm like, But first of all, I think a, why would. 

So it's just simple questions. What can lead to so much more? 

Ann Swanson 1:05:48
Yeah. Now I'm thinking of a million, so I will have to. I'll come back. Questions. Nobody's asked me. So the next interview will be even more unique. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:57
Sounds good. And I want to thank you so much again. Even though when this airs, your already be married. So congratulations. I wish both you and your husband a lifetime of high happiness and make sure that you get him meditating even more and more to control that roid rage more. 

Ann Swanson 1:06:18
Yes, it's a lifetime journey. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:22
Thanks a lot ahead.