Beyond Age: Jennifer Manocherian's Literary Leap with 'Alpha Bette'

Rich Bennett 0:00
Thanks for joining the conversation, where we explore the stories and experiences that shape our world. I'm your host, Rich Bennett, and today we're thrilled to welcome the remarkable Jennifer Maynard, sharing a vibrant and accomplished novelist who debuted her literary career with Alphabet. At the age of 85 years, young. Jennifer's journey challenges conventional narratives about aging and body in a spirit of relentless curiosity and boundless energy. Her novel, a testament to her creativity and determination, spans an impressive 

75,000 words, a milestone she never anticipated region. So join us as we delve into the world of Alphabet and celebrate Jennifer's inspiring journey where age is nothing but a number and passion knows no bounds. How are you doing, Jennifer? 

Jennifer Manocherian 0:53
Well, that was quite an introduction. Thank you. Thank you. I I'm just starting. I'm like the Grandma Moses of novelists or something. 

Rich Bennett 1:04
You know what? I love that. And I've had other people 

seven knees on up and released their first books. 

Jennifer Manocherian 1:17
Well, it's it's not an easy thing writing a novel. I mean, if you're a reader and you have and you care about writing, it's even harder probably because because you're so you know, I have very high standards for myself. Hmm. And it it was hard, but it was wonderful. And I loved doing it. And I think that one of the things there's novelists of every age. I mean, you're making me think about things I hadn't thought about, but I think every age, whatever you write, I mean, by the time you're old, you know, seventies or eighties, you've had a lot of life experience. So. So that brings a certain character depth to any story you want to tell. But by the same time, I mean, I'm listening to a book on tape right now by a young novelist, a young Iranian novelist called Martyr, and he's gotten a lot of great reviews for it. And he has it. You know, it's a whole different perspective. It's a whole different life experience. Right. So I think that every at every age it's it's so interesting to think about the age of the author and what how that impacts their writing, because I couldn't write the novel from a perspective of a 20 year old. Although one of my challenges in the book that I wrote was that I had seven or eight different main characters, and they each have their own voice and they're different ages. So I have to I have to be able to kind of deep and I'm a very, very focused on character. I mean, care if those characters aren't real, then the book doesn't, you know, it's like a movie. Anything you do if you don't believe the characters, if they're not, if they're kind of, 

you know, cardboard characters that you paint by number of characters, yeah, they don't interest me at all. I have to I have to really know these people very deeply. And I had I had all different I have a young Croatian girl now. Obviously, my life experience is going to be different from hers, but I felt that I knew some young people with different backgrounds that would give me enough ability to write that with some authenticity. Right. I have I have an Iranian guy who's also young, but my husband's Iranian. And, you know, I know pretty much about mine. 

Rich Bennett 3:31
That I would hope so. 

Jennifer Manocherian 3:33
I would hope so after 65 years of marriage. And I, I also you know, I have characters. I have women in their seventies. I have women. I just different ages. So I, I feel like whatever when you're my age and you're writing from the point of view of younger people, you know, you have to really check it out. At least that's the way I feel to, you know, pass it by other people and say, you know, does this ring true to you? Is this real? I couldn't just rely upon my own sense about rather, I had kind of hit the nail on the head or not. 

Rich Bennett 4:09
Yeah. And I think that goes off with it. It doesn't matter how old you are when you're writing it, I think echoes, if anything, a lot of that's got to do with the research you do as well. 

Jennifer Manocherian 4:19
Well, I mean, the kind of research I will do would be like, you know, what does somebody wear in the 1970s? I mean, it's it's much it's it's more kind of background things, right? But in terms of really understanding character, I, I don't know how much research would help, but maybe I'm wrong. I mean, you have to explain that to me. 

Rich Bennett 4:41
Well, I guess when you like I. So you said the young Croatian girl, right? So now I don't know what she's doing in a book, but there could be certain things in her culture that she does, and some people may not understand why. To give you an example, let's say let's go back in time. You know, I'm talking about the early, what, 1800, 1700. It's you know, back in the day, people used to churn butter. Now, if you write that in your books now, there are still people that do that. I mean, you go to the Amish. Amish do that a lot. 

Jennifer Manocherian 5:17
Oh, of course. I was going to say there are people who do it, but. 

Rich Bennett 5:20
A lot of people really may be like, what in the world is churning butter and why would they do that and not? This is just the way some people are. And keep in mind, too, like with your book, it could be 

I don't know, you could have teens reading it as well as older adults. So they are they're thinking when they read something, it's just like music. It may mean something different to them. 

Jennifer Manocherian 5:52
Yeah, of course. Well, I have to say the quote. The young Croatian girl, first of all, my former son in law, who unfortunately died of 

cancer a few years ago. Gerry was from Croatia. His family was. So, I mean, I certainly knew quite a bit about their culture. Had I placed her in her country, I wouldn't have I would have been a complete loss. But she was she was a rebel. She came with I mean, I don't want to give too much away in case anybody wants to buy my book. I hope one person will. But this girl, her name is Vanilla. She's she's a girl who needs adventure in her life. So she took off and she spoke English. She she started she learned English, a lot of it through schooling and also through watching movies. You know, she's kind of had this fantasy about America. So she kind of fled there. It's like she had to have a last adventure before she got married. This was like her her dream and her fiancé didn't want to come. So she's she's in America and she's really soaking up the culture. So there isn't a whole lot about her that is that is that different from young people from anywhere who really kind of land in America and really want to fit in and find their way. I mean, she has challenges. She has to worry about her visa, things like that. But if but I'm not placing her in her country, that's very different. And with with all the characters is there's I felt like there was actually the whole question in writing and this came about a few years ago. It's kind of a bigger issue than it has to be, I think. But the question of writers and appropriation and whether you're taking on characters without having a right to do it, there was a woman and I can't think of the name of the book, but she had written a book about it took place in Mexico, and it was about a woman who was escaping the cartel, and she took it on as if she were the person she did it. And you talk about doing research. She did an enormous amount of research. 

Rich Bennett 8:00
Right. 

Jennifer Manocherian 8:00
But you really as much as the book was really interesting, she really got it for having appropriated this other person as if she were that able to be authentically write from that person's point of view. And I and I became very sensitive to that. And I work with other writers who are very, 

very sick about these things. And there were a couple of characters I took out for that reason, because even though I felt like I had a good beat on them, right, I felt like it was it was going to it just there was enough that I was there was enough. I didn't need them, let's put it that way. Right. So that they went by the we call it the cemetery of characters who go there often in the Writers Cemetery somewhere. Maybe they'll be brought back to life. But at the moment they're not in the book anymore. So everybody I felt I felt like I didn't have to apologize for anybody I was writing about. 

Rich Bennett 8:59
Yeah, something you said you hope you can sell at least one book. I think I Number one, you're already selling a lot of books, it seems like, because. Well, go ahead. 

Jennifer Manocherian 9:11
Well, right now, you know, Amazon, I look at Amazon always to see kind of where I am. Right. And it's it's so interesting. It changes by the like. I mean, I'm not kidding. Maybe yesterday. I don't know. I have to start marking it so I know it. But like two days ago I was like over a million, like Greg's way of all the books sold, I was like, way up, like, above a million in terms of where I ranked in terms of writers for some reason today I'm down to like 123,000. I don't get it. I'm all it also says Amazon Bestseller. I mean, I in some category I figure for age for ancient writers, maybe I'm in that category. I don't know in what category I am in a bestseller, but I'll take it. I'm happy to have it. But it's a very interesting thing because your rating changes by the hour, I think, or maybe by the minute. 

Rich Bennett 10:08
Yeah, because I'm looking down now. And what number 47 as far as dramas and plays by women. 

Jennifer Manocherian 10:13
Were that like that was that went down to that was oh dear me. 

Rich Bennett 10:17
Okay. You know. 

Jennifer Manocherian 10:18
I mean I'm telling you they cheat by the end of this hour talk, it'll probably have changed again. 

Rich Bennett 10:24
Because new books keep coming out. 

Jennifer Manocherian 10:26
Well, it's just really interesting because when the book came out, I was doing great. And then, yeah, it's just over time. 

Rich Bennett 10:33
But then I think I know it helps change that too. So those of you. 

Jennifer Manocherian 10:37
With people like Rich Bennett. 

Rich Bennett 10:43
I would hope so. But no, I think in all honesty, what helps authors move the books is the reviews. And I tell my listeners this all the time, and I'm telling you all now, after you purchase this book, whether it be a paperback version, whether it be audible, Kindle, whatever, make you it. Yes, leave and not just get don't just click on oh five stars Say why? Why are you giving it five stars? Why are you giving it four stars? Give it a full review because that does help. It helps with the algorithms on Amazon's website, which is going to drive that up even more. 

Jennifer Manocherian 11:27
Well, it's amazing because I you know, I, I have to say for myself and I'm a reader, I mean, for me to give something five stars, 

I'm I'm this is a weird response. But like, I'm born in October, I'm a Libra. I always balance everything. I'm a middle child from I always kind of it's very hard for me to go all the way to the to the five. And now I'm much more generous about my thinking because I somebody will give me a four star review and say, Oh, this was the greatest book, blah, blah, and give me four stars. And I'm thinking, How couldn't you have added one more star? It it because it makes such a difference. And so now I feel very differently about stars because I think you can be, you know, it's not like it's going to make a difference in the vote for America. It's like, you know, it's it's about a book review and it's about helping somebody sell their book. And it's it makes a big difference. But if somebody reads my book and doesn't like it, do me a favor, don't review it. 

Rich Bennett 12:32
Well, here's something else I learned, too. And this, Jozen, this isn't just with books, but it's also with businesses. You know, like, you know, when you give a business a review, if you see nothing but five stars or five star reviews, you're suspicious. Yes, exactly. Exactly. So, yeah, that four star review. 

Jennifer Manocherian 12:57
Is a good. 

Rich Bennett 12:58
Review to go review. 

Jennifer Manocherian 13:00
Well, I don't disagree with you, except that there's the great ranking is such a big deal. And yeah, you know, I have to say, I wrote a novel because I wanted to write a novel and I worked hard on it. I, I wasn't. I have I have a writer's group that I'm part of, and everybody's been published this year and it's been, you know, it's great. And we also every year we take an annual week away where we go away, all right? And we give each other feedback. And we know that we were, in fact, when I finish this podcast, I'm going to be on a Zoom with another one of my writer friends where we we may not even talk to each other, but we're just resources to each other, right? And everybody who kept saying to me, you got to you got to get started on your social media, you got to get started on your marketing. And I kept say quiet. I didn't say that. Nice. I don't want to know about it. That's I didn't write a book to become a marketer. I wrote a book to write a book. Now I'm trying to write another book and my life has been taken up with This year. I've had to learn how to market a book. It's just been unbelievable. You cannot just write a book. You've got to then sell your book and and it's it's quite it's been a real learning experience for me. And simultaneously and this isn't something we were going to talk about, I don't think. But I also about ten years ago optioned a book called Closed Doors. And I felt this I, I felt it would be a great movie. And the writer who is Scottish and she's she's wonderful and she has a wonderful voice, but it's very, very culturally Scottish. Everything is little. It's there's a little wee bird looking out the window there, you know, It's so I took over writing the screenplay and and it was a very long road. And so this is like almost ten years ago. So I mean, I did a million drafts. Then I got somebody involved who came on with me. It's a co-producer who also helped me with honing the script. I mean, it took us for it took a long, long time. Then we got a director then and she did a pass on it and she's also a writer on it. And then COVID rolled around. And so finally we made the movie. In fact, we filmed it in May in Ely, Minnesota, which is absolutely lovely little part of the world. It's called The Boundary, the book. The movie's called Boundary Waters, and it's and I also produced it with an with a person who was kind of the main producer, but I've also been a producer on it. So this year I've had to get this book out. I've had to also be figuring out how to market the book. And I've also been, I mean, this whole business of the movie, it's been an extraordinary learning curve. I mean, I did a movie that I wrote, I produced and wrote a movie in the late nineties, and it was I learned a lot in doing that. But I had people who are like, I was like, I was involved in all the decisions, but I wasn't very knowledgeable at all. And this time around I can't tell you that I was. This has been a well, the world has changed since then. 

Rich Bennett 16:08
Yeah, the whole digital world. 

Jennifer Manocherian 16:09
The way things are done, it's very, very different. But it's been an extraordinary experience. But I mean, I'm, I mean, almost every day there's things that come up with the book. So it's been I've had a lot of challenges in the last year. I mean, now it's February 1st. Oh, no, it's January 31st. But in 2023, I was just I didn't I didn't come up for air on a single day. Wow. I'm also involved in a few nonprofit. So it's just B one of them has to do with getting young people to care about our world and register to vote. 

Rich Bennett 16:44
Right. 

Jennifer Manocherian 16:45
Another one is called the Peace Studio, which is trying to get make it make us a kinder, better world. Let's put it that nice. And so between all the different things I'm doing, it's just it's been a very intense year, but there could be nothing better for somebody my age, right, than to have to be pushed like that. 

Rich Bennett 17:02
But, you know, it's marketing. 

Jennifer Manocherian 17:05
I am I that's what I am. And I'm also trying to write another book. And there's also a musical I'm working on with my musical collaborators. This is will be our third go. And so it's been a lot going on for me. And I don't know what the question was. Jennifer with. 

Rich Bennett 17:22
Jennifer, when do you sleep. 

Jennifer Manocherian 17:25
About midnight. 

Rich Bennett 17:28
For what, 2 hours? 

Jennifer Manocherian 17:29
You know, I get my sleep. 

Rich Bennett 17:31
As you say, you're you are going. 

Jennifer Manocherian 17:34
Know what I, I, I have I always attribute it to my mother because she had enormous energy. But I, I do think it's you're you're born with it. I honestly you can't manufacture it and if it in fact I'd have better energy if I were more into exercise and things like that. But it's just something something I have to do because other is kind of the only antidote to aging. But I, I'm very I don't I mean, every day I have one my calendar to do something exercise wise. And guess what doesn't happen that day. 

Rich Bennett 18:10
I'm seriously thinking about because I'm the same way and like I've had. You're the third recording today and I'm sorry, your second. Then I got another third one. But I'm always sitting down at the desk and it used to be when I was only dropping one episode a week, I would get up every half hour, go walk around outside, come back in, sit back down and work. I don't even get a chance to do that now. So I'm literally thinking about getting one of those. Have you seen the things you put on for it? Looks like bicycle wheels. 

No, I forget what? It just looks like a 

V with bicycle and you've just put your feet under and just keep pedaling while you're sitting at the desk because of that where you're still exercising. 

Jennifer Manocherian 18:57
Well, that's good. I have a seated elliptical. That's what I do. It's a little different. It's not like, Oh, yeah, a seated elliptical. It's great. That's how I do my exercise. And I could be. 

Rich Bennett 19:07
Looking at to go right now of clothes on. 

Jennifer Manocherian 19:15
But once I once I go to sleep and I'm tired and I wake up and I'm recharged, my batteries get recharged every night and I wake up because I think it's because I wake up kind of excited. 

Rich Bennett 19:28
Yeah. 

Jennifer Manocherian 19:29
I do. I love what I do, you know, And I have a big family and they're kind of my number one priority in life. You know, if anybody needs me, I'm hopefully of there on them. 

Rich Bennett 19:41
I'm this. I'm the same way. Jennifer. I go to bed and I'll listen to a book on tape or on Audible, I should say. I'm listening to a book and then I'll fall asleep. I get up anywhere between 430, 530. Oh, God, Wait on the coffee. Come downstairs and start working. 

Jennifer Manocherian 19:59
Well, my, I am not an early morning person. 

Rich Bennett 20:03
Well, no, If you go to bed at midnight, you're not. 

Jennifer Manocherian 20:05
No, I. It's. I have to go to sleep at some point, right. Yeah, but I, I, I have things I want to do all the time. I got books I want to read and things I want to watch. Movies I want to watch a lot. 

Rich Bennett 20:18
Oh, yeah. There's a lot I want to know. 

Jennifer Manocherian 20:20
It's good. I mean, I. Listen, I have a full life, and I'm very lucky and I'm blessed with good health. But I would be. I would be better served if I liked to exercise more. And I put more time into it. Because your body can make it hard. 

Rich Bennett 20:35
Yeah, Yeah, you will. But you will. All right. So question for you, because you mentioned something in all of this, which I always push this with aspiring authors, a writers group tell everybody, Oh, what? Well. 

Jennifer Manocherian 20:53
I, I, well, first of all, this the I, I won't say the idea for this book came at all, but about nine, ten years ago, one of the people who's who's a writer friend who is in my group, Jim and and she's a wonderful writer and her latest book is called The Apology. And I recall it's about these ancient Korean women sisters in their hundreds. I mean, it's a wonderful book, very, very imaginative. And Jim and it was leading a local writing group at the the library where I live. And it's like every 2 hours for every two weeks of I said to her, God, I don't think I can write in narrative form. You know, I usually do, you know, in screenplay write. And she said, which is, why don't you come and try it? Well, anyway, I tried it and I'm hooked. I got hooked and I started writing short stories. And, you know, if I wrote a 500 page story, it was an it was a real accomplishment. I mean, it's hard, but I mean, we have these writing prompts, and I'm sure that anybody who's a writer knows what I'm talking about, but somebody you'll get a prompt. I mean, for example, one of the prompts or one of my favorite prompts was write about somebody who's just likeable. Oh my God, That's based on the basis of one of my characters in the book. And she's the basis of my second book. Her name is Miss Saigon Stricker, and she's named after a teacher I had who I think has to be long dead, so she can't be insulted. But she you know, I started writing these different stories that I really kind of got into just writing stories. And then we have these these excuse me, annual what, writing retreats. And something would be on my front burner and I wouldn't be able to do any write any of that type of writing. But creative writing that way. But then I started thinking about, well, maybe there's a way of putting these stories together or doing a short story collection or something, but I didn't think they were good enough. My husband kept pushing me to do it and I kept saying, No, it's they're not they don't merit it, it's just not worth it. But anyway, ultimately I started figuring out a way to put the different some of the characters I had into a cohesive unit so they could all be related. And it was that. And I did that again with the help of these people I work with. And I would in the summers, I mean, I would write a, you know, like I would read like a chapter and they would give me feedback and I mean, oh, that sounds like a screenplay. And I realized I don't have enough in here of the I don't have enough of the own so that visually you can picture where you are. I don't have all the action in there enough. Thought there was a lot I had to learn. And I tell you, I don't think anybody should write without a group. Yeah, I mean, you could take a writing class. I mean, almost every school. I mean, not school, but communities have it. Colleges have it. You know, adult education programs have it. You can go online and have it or take a writing class start to, you know, test the waters. But you've got to get other people seeing what you do, because I just don't think without I mean, I this would have never well, this would have never happened without COVID, because at the time I was a theater producer mainly that was kind of where my most of my days were spent. And I had an office in the New York City, and with COVID, everything shut down. So I had I had time that I didn't ordinarily have to do this. And that's when I really made a commitment. All right. I'm going to really do this. But it was very it wasn't. It took me a couple of years. It was very hard. I got feedback from every all my writer friends, if I could only I mean, how many times can I ask people to read a script? I mean, a novel? I got feedback from everybody a couple of times and everybody had a different something to add. I mean, I can't even explain to what extent I owe it to them. And then when I felt like it was the best, I could get it based on all their feedback, I worked with a developmental editor who was recommended to me because often if you try to get an agent with what you have, the first thing they'll tell you is you need to get a developmental editor to work with it. So I figured, I'm going to go ahead, I'm going to do it first, right? So that whatever I got is going to be kind of the best it can be with with that type of informed input. And she had amazing feedback. I mean, it was I thought I would die when I read her notes. I mean, it was so overwhelming. But then once I kind of calmed down, I went back to it. Everything made, you know, when it resonates with you and it made so much sense, then I could see how to juggle things around. I mean, yeah, what the suggested and she'll make in this doesn't matter if you've read the book or not. The old lady in the book who's kind of the main character since she has a husband who's dead and he initially when I wrote the book, I had him like as a floating character, you know, thinking about her and stuff. And all of that went a long time ago. But she a developmental editor, her name was Kim Lim, and she felt like he could be bring him into everybody's lives in some way in their back stories. Let him be a link to let everybody who was a character of his have known him in some way. And it links everybody. And it was an amazing suggestion. I mean, it was just it provided like a glue for everybody, right? I mean, there's other forms of it, too, but it was just it brought him alive. That was in a way that was really a value. And so once I understood what she was recommending, it wasn't hard to do it. It was it was just it felt daunting initially. But I cannot recommend enough working with other people and getting and getting input from other people, rather. It's just I mean, you can even do, you know, find a group of friends one night and read to them a short story you've written and ask their feedback. I mean, feedback is just the key to what? To helping you. You can't if you've got what you've written, if you get you know, if you talk about can you kill your babies? Well, I can kill my babies, you know, And the point is that, you know, you may love something you've written. You may think, oh, my God, this is so funny, but it may not fit in. It just may not have a place. You can't you you have to look at the whole rather than a piece that you really, you know, kind of get glommed to and really like your own writing or whatever else. You've just got to be able to get rid of that and listen to other other people's feedback. If and particularly if you get the same kind of notes. 

Rich Bennett 27:21
Yeah. 

Jennifer Manocherian 27:22
If everybody says, I don't really understand why that character X does such and such and and then you go back and you look at it, you thought, well, it really isn't explained very well. Maybe I'd better go back and look at that and kind of create more material beforehand that helps people understand that character better. 

Rich Bennett 27:41
Yeah, the groups are very important and I actually there's a local one here and they had me come in and speak to them during COVID. Of course we did it virtually, but I thought the neatest thing was asked me to stay afterwards. For the critique part, I just I found that so 

I, I guess you could say. 

Jennifer Manocherian 28:08
Not just informative. 

Rich Bennett 28:09
Yeah, informative because you have to be open to criticism. You have to. And it's constructive criticism. 

Jennifer Manocherian 28:18
Yeah. I mean, if it says to you this stinks, that's not going to tell you anything now. 

Rich Bennett 28:22
Yeah, you got, you know, why would those you, you know, what do you like and so forth and, and now once I start writing my book again, I can't wait to join that group. So of course they, you know, critique me. 

Jennifer Manocherian 28:37
But yeah, I do, I do screen, I do teaching privately with screenwriting. And there's one of the people contacting me today, and she's almost finished with her script and she's she's put together a group of her friends who next week are doing a reading of it, a table reading of her script, and having come from theater. I have to tell you, it's there's nothing like it because when you when you get to hear it, there's first of all, you hearing it. And then second of all, what you just said is getting the feedback afterwards of the people who do these things and how they respond to it. I with the movie that I did, I, I did a lot of we did a few table reads of it. And I in order to hear kind of get hear, hear it and to get the feedback and it every time I would learn something and it would move it towards another draft, it would inform another draft. And in terms of the book, I really should have done more of it. But I have to tell you, like sometimes I will if I read a chapter of it, 

even if I read it myself to myself out loud, I'm going to hear things that I haven't noticed before. 

It's really good to test your material out loud here. If you suppose you wrote a story and you just asked a friend to read it to you, when you hear it read, you're going to you're going to hear things or notice things you just don't notice for yourself. We lose perspective. We get caught up in it. And there's something else I want to say to people who want to write, and that is almost before you start writing anything, you got to know your characters. They've got to be alive within you. Yeah, my characters, they live with me for a long time. When I'm driving, I'm thinking of them. When I'm going to bed at night, I'm thinking of them. They have to be so real to you that when they talk, you don't have to think, Oh, well, what? How would they sound? Or what type of thing would they respond to or how would they say it? Then it becomes natural. And particularly when you're writing with different characters, they have to all be real and they have to have different voices. Yeah, well, the I'm a very strong believer in real because a lot of people think plot comes first. Well, plot is everybody has an idea for a book or a novel. And then, yeah, like lots of luck. All right, You sit down with a plot and, you know, you have your up your little what's it called? Elevator pitch. Right? But when you try to write it, you may not know how you want to end it. I mean, if the people or not, if you really don't know your characters, you cannot develop your plot because you have to know what they do. How do they act? Where does that where do they go? What's their response it all. To me, the plot follows the character. When you know that your people, you know what journey they need to take and and you cannot just superimpose a plot on that. And I think people get caught with that. Yeah, I think it's also, you know, it's work. You write a draft and then you're at the beginning of the process to say, you know, then the work begins. But you get out kind of what? That's what I'm trying to do now with my second book. It's and it's hard because I have a tendency to edit as I go. But what I'm really trying to do is the now that I know everybody that I've been living with them for so long, and there are people who are in my other book too, so I haven't said goodbye to them. I still know these people, right? And I'm working through the plot, but it's almost like I can't I couldn't give you an outline. I know where I want to go with it, but it has to kind of with each section that I write or each chapter that I write, I figure out where I'm going to go from there. It's I have a very organic process. It's, you know, there are a lot of people who do it in a much more organized or structured way. I just can't work that way, right? I have to make discoveries as I go. But then afterwards, when you've got it all, then when you start working on it, then you have to be more kind of methodical and make sure that everything I don't know is it's different. Once you have it all laid out, then it becomes a little bit more, 

well, I don't know quite what to say. A lot of people. 

Rich Bennett 32:54
Say almost easier, but I don't I don't know if a be easier is the right word to say. More. 

Jennifer Manocherian 33:03
Well, you know, let me just let me explain. One of my writing friends who's also wrote a book this year or last year, I keep forgetting we're in the New Year, but she had given me a like a graph where you figure out how many, how how many this was for my characters, how many pages is each chapter? Making sure that you kind of have a uniform length, how many jumps since there's all different characters in this who had their own chapters, how many, you know, figuring out how many chapters each person has, looking to make sure it was balanced. So in a way, it was a way of almost like a mathematical way of looking at it to make sure somebody wasn't given short shrift. I mean, it was it was that was when you're looking at it in a much more kind of analytical way and making sure that you you're weaving the people in in such a way that they're all getting not equal time, but sufficient time for who they are and where they belong in the story. Right. And it by by mechanically going through the script. And it's this number of pages and it's pages one through three. And then who's in that scene? I mean, it's it's the kind of thing that I really like doing because the actual person, but it's also the kind of thing that can help you make your book better. 

Rich Bennett 34:21
So with you being a screenwriter, was it harder to go from, you know, like screenwriting to writing a novel, or did or do you find that it actually helped? 

Jennifer Manocherian 34:34
The only thing the only 

there's I mean, obviously you have to plot arcs and character arcs. Whatever you write in whatever form. You know, if I never said I'm going to write a novel, I mean, I never thought about it. If I thought I was going to write a novel. When a screenplay, I usually have an idea with a novel, it just kind of evolved. I mean, I can't it's, well, I'm telling you, COVID made it happen because I want him to do it. But I but the way the type of writing you do is so different, it's I don't know that it's like somebody tells you, you played ping pong, but you should be doing it holding your racket this way instead of that way. And it's like you may really it's a whole different way of playing the game and it's kind of I don't know if that's a good analogy or not, but it's like you have to that there's a lot you have to relearn when you're writing a novel and and it's, it's, it's you don't have the benefit of a camera that does a lot of work for you. Yeah I often I often refer to a movie that I feel like is a great movie for teaching the craft of screenwriting, and it's called The Confirmation. And Clive Owen with it. And it's a very good movie. I mean, it's flawed, like it's flawed and then it doesn't really deal with the, the, the alcoholism of the the Clive Owen character, but it's good in terms of the economy of writing a screenplay, which is so different from a novel where where before the movie has while the credits are rolling, you're hearing a truck trying to start and it won't start. So what do you know? You know, somebody is in trouble. You haven't had a word of dialogue, Not a word. Then you see the guy and you see Clive Owen in this beat up truck in kind of a dumpy town and his and he's hasn't shaved. You know, it was before it was sexy to be have a little right to have a little work and his truck will not start. So, you know, before the movie, before you've heard a word of dialogue. Yeah, this is Guy and he's in trouble and there's something he's going to have to get. He's going to have to fix something by the time the movie ends. Now, if you're writing this as a novel, you've got a picture you've got to fill in, you've got to show the scene. You've got, you know, you have to do you have to do all the filler stuff, which is hard for. But yeah, if it didn't come naturally to me, I'm better at it now. It just but it was like something I had to learn. And then in the same film, the next thing you see him out, he's picking up his kit. This, Oh, my God, this kid's cute. He's about ten and he's an amazing young actor, and he's being picked up at a church with his mom, who's the ex-wife of Clive Owen. And and she says to him, words to the effect of screw up. This time you won't see the kid again. So what? So we have so much back story. We all of a sudden we realize that this guy has been a deadbeat dad, that he's that he's his. It's a his on the line, you know, that he's got to really, you know, pull his weight properly for the course of this movie. And then you then we go into a scene. There is another scene and I'm not sure the sequence of it because I haven't seen it in a while. But the kid is in church and he's like this and look at looking kid. But where is he? The mom sitting on the back on this pew and the kids on the ground kind of messing around. So you've already know that he's he's he's a wonderful kid, but he's he's a little rebellious. And then in the confession booth, he goes in and he says something like, You see what he says, Why am I supposed to call you father? Something like that. So 

there's so many ways you find out that this kid is kind of drawn between his two parents. Mom, like so so movies, there's there's not a single in a movie. You cannot have a single thing that's gratuitous. You can't have a person introduced without a reason. You can't have a scene that doesn't move the plot forward in some way. I mean, and his dialogue, the whole movie is so tight that way. That's what I really like about it. And when you're writing, that's a very different type of thing. You have 90 pages usually, you know, it's a page a minute. That's how you figure a movie script. Oh, wow. So, so if you figure most movies, unless it's, you know, like a Kevin Costner, a three hour movie, it's going to be a short oh, an hour and a half is a good line to aim for in a book. You can it be a thousand pages? It can be. The minimum is probably a little over 200 pages, but you have time to tell your story, but you've got to tell your story in a different way. You can't rely on a I keep referring to the camera, but a camera coming and showing you where you are. You got to you got to tell the audience where you are and you can't just have dialogue. The dialogue you have to intersperse. And it also has to be carefully chosen. The same way is in a movie script. You have you choose your dialogue, but it has to have function and you also have to see the person maybe squirming in their chair or what, maybe smoking a cigarette or vaping or whatever they're doing, or the cat jumping on. You have to fill everything in. And it's a type of writing that I really appreciate when it's done well, yeah, book 

and I had to really work at it to get better at it and it didn't come naturally to me. Well, that was a long winded answer. I apologize. 

Rich Bennett 40:28
Oh, no, no, no, that's okay. That's okay, because I. I'm learning a lot already from you, and. 

Jennifer Manocherian 40:36
Oh, my. Do I. I'll tell you where to send the bill. 

Oh. 

Rich Bennett 40:42
No, that's one of the reasons I do this is because I love to learn new things. And if I learn stuff, I know my listeners are good, but with the book, I'm going to put you on the spot here. Oh, 

tell us three of your favorite characters and why they're your favorite. 

Jennifer Manocherian 41:03
Well, I already mentioned Miss Seiden Stricker, who's the cranky neighbor, and she's she's racist. I mean, she's all the things you don't want to be. 

Rich Bennett 41:13
Right. 

Jennifer Manocherian 41:14
And and yet you have during the course of the book, you have to understand better why she's such a damaged person. And there's something about writing her that I don't know why I enjoy it so much. Finding her humanity, you know, it's it's and there's going to be a whole new story in the next one. I'm doing, which will explain it better. But you don't need to read the first book to get the second or the second to understand the first. But she's she was just I just enjoyed writing her and maybe. All right. So my other two favorite well, of course I like writing about bit the old you know because there's a lot about she's there's my book is in no way autobiographical but there's tons of it where I've taken you know from moment in my life more bits and pieces of characters that I've known and things like. I mean, there's ways in which I mean, I have to say this, I'm not quite 95, but there are elements of me of being like somewhat controlling and and bossy at times. I don't know. My mother was like that. I mean, my God, my mother in her old age was quite, quite a gem. And it was 

and I'm incredibly independent, you know, fiercely independent. And there are a couple of things that happened, like for the fact that Bette is in a wheelchair and the incident that put her in a wheelchair is similar to what happened to my mother. And my mother wound up her last years of her life in a wheelchair and really not because she had to be, but she had had a couple of breaks and she was so afraid of falling that she didn't leave, you know, she didn't do it and the things you have to do. But there's a point at which if you don't walk for a while, you can't. Yeah. And so she wound up in that position, but it was different. She didn't, you know, not saying it was my mother, like my mother did exquisite needlepoint. And I have I have that, as you know. So there's there were pieces of her. I don't know, I she was a she was I feel like she was kind of a noble character. And I did enjoy writing her. And she's I feel like that type of I hope that I will always I mean, I don't I'm not really fiercely independent, but I have I mean, my parents when my mother died, I found my parents died in their mid nineties while they lived in the same apartment for a very long time. So I found stuff there that were unbelievable. I found mother's journals my mother had written. It's like 1915 to 1970, and one of the things I read about myself was I was four years old and one day they couldn't find me and I was walking to town by myself. They found me a mile away, walking to town. I for I, I mean, I had this I've always had this kind of streak of and my parents, I don't know, I don't want to, but I mean, I don't to badmouthed it. But my parents did like their alcohol. I mean I, I admired my parents in a lot of ways. That was one way I did. But, you know, we all had and they were not helicopter parents, so we had to be a certain amount of independence. But I was it's just been in my nature. I mean, do it yourself or it's like, yeah, I might as well put DIY on my everything I wear. So there's parts there. So there's things about Bette that I like and admire. So I did enjoy writing about her. Huh? Who do we go to next? 

Rich Bennett 44:59
I told you I was putting you on the spot. 

Jennifer Manocherian 45:01
I know. Well, I like all my characters. Well, to be honest with you, I kind of had fun writing the medium. And she does. She doesn't feature largely in it. She doesn't. But I have I, I built two mediums in my life, and I had to do some research on that to write because we, you know, we think of like Whoopi Goldberg in Ghost or something, you know, with all the and all of that and all that hokey stuff. And they don't really they don't necessarily look like that at all. It's real. And actually, in the sometimes when I'm driving and the ad will come on the radio for California 

psychics or something like that, it's like there's a group in California that advertises themselves. It's fascinating to me. And they do this. They promise to make your life better. There's something about this profession. And actually, now that I think about it, there's somebody I'm working with on her screenplay and it involves a psychic. And it and it also involves going to a place in upper New York state called Lilydale, which is I don't know if Have you ever heard of it? Oh, it's a it's you have to go. You have to Google it. It's Lilydale. And it's a place where people go every summer. There's a whole it's a whole community of psychics and they have talks and they both walks and all these things. So through through reading about, you know, through her book, I did my own research a little through her excuse me screenplay. And I just the whole process. I mean, I'm not I'm I'm an agnostic, really. I don't know what I believe or don't believe, but I don't dismiss anything. And I have, you know when I had a little fun with this character. So it was it was interesting to me to try to go into her head a little. And so I would say I would add her to my list. 

Rich Bennett 46:50
Who was it that came up with the cover? Because I love the cover of the book. 

Jennifer Manocherian 46:56
Well, you're going to get another long winded answer from me. 

Rich Bennett 46:59
That's fine. 

Jennifer Manocherian 47:01
But I when I finished the book, I felt and I knew from my other writer friends that who had been published by more traditional publishers that first of all, the process could take 2 to 3 years. Second of all, they don't always have that as much control. 

Rich Bennett 47:19
But. 

Jennifer Manocherian 47:20
They get they get to give they get to give input, but not necessarily a decision over the title or the cover. And I felt that having particularly having been in theater and so aware of the power of the right title and the right poster, for example, one of the plays I was early on, an investor producer, so to speak, in is Stomp. Stomp is a five letter word. It's says what it is is the easiest thing to market. It's I mean, it's an incredible title. So I, I feel very strongly about titles. I have I mean and about graphics. I really care about that. Right? So I wanted I didn't want to wait to find an agent. And and one of the things that kind of tipped me was meeting with somebody of having lunch with somebody who told me that she had a friend who is a very well-known person in his maybe close to my age, who could get an agent in 5 seconds just through a phone call, but chose not to with a book to do it. The same kind of a hybrid publisher because he didn't want to wait that long being old. And I felt the same way because I didn't I was I didn't want to wait to get an then you get an agent. The agent may then want you to make more changes in your book. Then the agent you have to wait to the agent finds a publisher, maybe does or doesn't find a publisher who wants to do your book. Maybe the publisher wants to make more changes. Then you may not have control over your title or your cover. I didn't want to go that route, so I went the route of the hybrid publisher, which is different from like going to like the Amazon publishing things. You just give them your content. I went to to the ones that were selected where they they take like 15% of submissions and you work very closely with them and they, I got accepted in the ones that I wanted to get into. But the first one that accepted me, I was sort of working with them and we were off and running. So by the time they had signed our contract, it was in February and the book was done at the end of August. So wow. So I so every part of it I worked with them on. They didn't. Well, one of the reasons is they didn't feel it needed any editorial work. They felt it was they did a copyediting where they found, you know, like a misspelling or something. Right. But but we didn't have to put time into doing more editorial work. It was it was pretty much where it needed to be. Then they have to also run it through a lawyer to make sure you haven't done anything. That'll be a problem. 

Rich Bennett 49:54
Yep. 

Jennifer Manocherian 49:55
You have to go. I went through, you know, all the different stages, but when it came to the cover, what they did is they put me on oh, the title I came up with. 

Rich Bennett 50:04
But I was going to ask you about that too. 

Jennifer Manocherian 50:07
Oh, well, I'll tell you that when I finished with the cover, because the cover, the cover, I, they, I gave them an idea of the covers that I had liked with books. And also I did a little I was playing around with what the synopsis was of this woman and different artists renditions of it because I put it in one of the one that I kind of put in was, Oh my God, I'm blanking on his name. Very famous English painter. Oh, now he's done the swimming pool. Well, anyway, the colors that came out of it, it was just I, I gave them enough input that they sent me like five different things they thought and 

what can I say? By the time we finally settled on one, I it I, I there was one they had said that did have that profile which I really liked. And then playing around with where I wanted the title to be and the colors of the title where I wanted my name to be rather I wanted a quote around or not. Then I had what the colors were. I changed that I put on her red lipstick. I gave her earrings. I think I you know, I did a lot of playing with that cover. I'm not I didn't I'm not taking credit for it. But I have to say, I did a lot of tweaking on it with them, too, because I felt like it was it was such a good way of showing who this woman is. 

Rich Bennett 51:30
Well, you did an awesome job. 

Jennifer Manocherian 51:32
Yeah. So I, I the graphic. The person deserves more credit than I do, but I am a big backseat driver. 

Rich Bennett 51:41
Sometimes you have to be. 

Jennifer Manocherian 51:43
Well, when you're when you care a much that much I am. 

Rich Bennett 51:47
My baby. 

Jennifer Manocherian 51:48
And when I'm making this, you know, and then as far as the cover goes, the title I, I had asked, I mean, everybody I practically ever known as to make suggestions I had. So, you know, the dining room, the dinner party, it was all boring. I mean, there was nothing that came to me that that seemed right. And I have a niece who was just really good, worked so hard to try to find me, my cover, my title. I mean, and I don't know when it came to me, but her name was not bit okay. That woman has had many name changes, none of them legal, but she had so many changes over time. I think I've had her as I don't even remember all the titles, but, you know, I was going back to the to that era and trying to find names that were appropriate for that era. But when I came up with the idea of her as an Alpha, that image of her as an alpha, then it just came up one day has to be Alphabet and it was going to be Alphabet. And then that's where the legal team came in and they said there was something that was done that's alphabetical, some, I don't know, a product or something. Anyway, it was fine because I like that. I think I love the look, the look of the name Bettie. It's like Bette Midler. There's a little bit more, you know, it's a little more a little more open to it than just Betty. 

Rich Bennett 53:10
And it's a good play on words. 

Jennifer Manocherian 53:12
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 53:13
Because for those of you listening and you'll see the title Alpha, it's Alphabet, but it's two different words, Alpha and then Bette, Betty, Right. So not like your ABCs alphabet, but yeah, it sounds the same way. 

Jennifer Manocherian 53:29
I know it is. Yeah. Alpha Tough. Tough. You know, strong person, person and Bette and I mean thanks to word replace you can do find replace. You can change the name, whatever you want. And I changed it many, many times. But Bette just worked and it works the era it you know it just works for her. She was so I like that. 

Rich Bennett 53:51
Yeah. I love the I love the cover and I love the title of it. 

Jennifer Manocherian 53:55
Both Thank you. 

Rich Bennett 53:57
So because I'm sitting here looking at the time, something very important, Tell everybody listening 

why it's important for them. Well, they know it's important to tell everybody why they need to buy this book. 

Jennifer Manocherian 54:12
Alphabet 

Well, 

I think that it's it's a nice slice. It's a really it's a story of a family. It's a 

four generational family. 

And it's about grief. I mean, there's Bette is grieving. There's other there's been other losses in this book. It's about family secrets. It's about people who it's you know, it's got every person, every character in this book has an issue that's kind of hanging over them that they need to resolve. And Bette is somehow in the midst of all of that. And it's very important for her to feel like everybody's lives is somewhat in order. She's you know, she's still at the age of 95 trying to fix everybody. But and but she's you know, she believes people have to have their own path. And she's not she just but it's an but. So I think that when you read it, you you know, you come to grips with people, identify one person who was a reviewer, look for a blogger who had read it, had written how at the time she started to read it, her mother in law was kind of reaching an age where they had to figure out what to do for her and so forth. And she found reading about this old woman and of the issues that come up with caretaking of an elderly person really helpful to her. I think that different people are one. And there's another character in this book without giving away but is sitting on something she's really afraid of and instead of talking about it, which would have probably alleviated her fear, she holds it in and it kind of isolates her and shuts her off from somebody who is very important to her. So I think there's lessons to be learned in this book from different people. There's the housekeeper, Rosie, who's in this book, has a teenage daughter, and Rosie always had such dreams for herself that she didn't realize and has she puts a lot of pressure on her daughter. And it's and it's counterproductive. And she has to she has to learn how to back off and payoff of that. So I think if I there's are I mean, if I go one by one through every character, you'll see that there's issues in it that you can learn. Yeah, depending Upon what you're going through in your life. There's a young Iranian guy who is living in the apartment that is that he grew up in his childhood apartment. His parents had gone to Iran and they become detained there. Their father is imprisoned and he feels like he and it's been like seven years and he feels stuck and he can't really live his life. You know, he's felt like in a holding pattern and he has to figure out, you know, so, I mean, it's it's for different ages and different people. There's there's there's the elderly woman who's in her seventies, who is Bette's daughter, who has not been able to feel like she can pursue her dream because for for different reasons that come out in this and somehow she needs to realize that even in her seventies, she has a talent that's being wasted and she can do it. So there's there's a lot of ripple effect of different issues for anybody who reads this book who I think will find something they can kind of relate to or learn from. And also just kind of the you know, everybody's a we're all every everybody's flawed. Everybody's searching in life. We're all kind of 

I had written a script, movie script that I have waiting to do, maybe, and when I'm 110, but it's called Muddling Through, and that's how I feel. We all kind of muddle through life and do our best and try to figure things out. And in a way, I think that could be applied to this book too, where everybody's, you know, trying to figure out their lives and find ways to make it work. 

Rich Bennett 58:22
Mhm. So tell everybody something very important, your website and well I know they can get the book anywhere but tell everybody your web site because they can also go there and see other projects you're working on as well. Right. 

Jennifer Manocherian 58:36
Yes, correct. But let me just say you can't get it in a bookstore because it's not. It's all done. It's done through it's paperback. Oh, yeah. Unfortunately, it's in paperback. It's called Print on Demand. Where where you order it, You get it, get it right away. But it's it's paperback. It's an e-book or it's on Audible. 

Rich Bennett 58:58
Oh, okay. I read. 

Jennifer Manocherian 58:59
That. However, if you if you love to read and you think this book is good and you think people in your community would like it, you can go to your local bookstore and suggest that they order some copies, because the thing is that if they order, they can order your bookstore can order copies, and they can be through a company called Ingram and they can be returned so they don't have to sell all of them and it's all good. Yeah. And I've also found it's a good book for book clubs because, I mean, one person I know had done a book club and then she invited me in by Zoom and they had created a dinner party like the dinner party and the book, and they had all read the book and they asked me questions. And it was really neat. I mean, that was fun. I could do that with anybody anywhere, because Zoom allows you to do it. Yeah, right. 

Also. But my website is called Jen is my name Jennifer Manchurian Dot Net. It's like age tips. 

Rich Bennett 59:56
Right. 

Jennifer Manocherian 59:58
Column box no W WW just Jennifer Mediterranean dot net. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:03
For my last question you know my last question is going to be because I'm sure you've heard me ask other people on the podcast you've been you've been interviewed a lot. You and first of all, I want to say thank you for doing something I tell authors to do all the time. You're going around on different podcasts, talking about your book. So I want to, you know, thank you for doing that, because I think more authors, I think all authors need to do that. But out of all the hosts that have talked to you, is there anything a host has never asked you that you wish? 

Jennifer Manocherian 1:00:42
Say, who was my favorite host? Like grandchildren. Who's your favorite. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:46
Grandson? 

Is there anything? A host is never a issue that you wish they would have asked you, and if so, what would be that question and what would be your answer? 

Jennifer Manocherian 1:00:58
Well, I have to tell you, you've left me speechless. Maybe that's the best thing. What have I never been asked? 

I don't have an answer. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:13
It doesn't have to be about the book or your career or anything either. Oh, 

just something that I don't know. Nobody knows about you, but, you know. 

Jennifer Manocherian 1:01:27
Well, I don't know. Well, I don't know. Maybe you ask what drives me. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:31
You know, it's a good question. What does drive you? 

Jennifer Manocherian 1:01:34
Because I. I feel like because I do have this energy and enthusiasm. I mean, I've just been very blessed in life and I know it. I've just you know, I've got good health. I've got we've been through tons of, you know, what in my family, but we're tight and wonderful and and I'm I could cry just thinking about everybody. I mean, they just give me I'll go to my daughter's house and I'll see her for kids. And I just go home feeling like I'm just warm inside, you know? So I'm. I'm lucky I'm married. I've been married for, you know, since I was I was barely 20 when I got married and my husband's and he's alive and he's well and he has and he's he's he's not going to like this either, but he's not going to listen. He's 91, but he looks amazing and he's healthy. And, you know, it's I know so many people who are alone. I've never I've never lived alone, ever 

had I don't even like to think about it. So I've just been and I have genetically I've just been. And my parents exposed me to a lot. So I've had that and my and I have this energy that I feel like is a direct gift from my mother. So I'm just I think that I'm driven because I'm, you know, basically I'm a happy, upbeat person and I enjoy my life. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:58
Right. 

Jennifer Manocherian 1:02:59
And I hope people and a lot of people listening may hate me. You know, it's it's hard, you know, for somebody my age, it's maybe for other people who are struggling. It's going to be hard. You know, it's I don't want to make people, anybody feel lesser because they can't do what I'm doing. I think just I'm just fortunate, that's all, that I have this drive and I and everybody in my family has always been. It's a kind of literary wealth. I don't know how to put it, but it's a we of a bookish family. And a lot of people don't have the benefit of the type of exposure that I've had. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:33
Yeah. 

Jennifer Manocherian 1:03:35
And my wanting to do things and I have great friends and it also encourages me. If I hadn't joined that screenwriting class, that writing class, I took like ten years ago, I would have never become part of that whole community. I mean, I've just had a lot of lucky things happen for me too. So like, you know, I've had a rollercoaster life like everybody else. But at this moment in my life, I'm just grateful for everything. So I guess that's an answer. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:05
Yes, it's I think the the biggest thing I just got out of that, especially when you talk about family, the books, the community, your husband of 65 years, there's there's something there that is a common theme and it's the love. 

Jennifer, I want to thank you so much and I will see you again. And I have a funny feeling we are going to meet in person. 

Jennifer Manocherian 1:04:35
Well, that would be lovely. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:38
It'll have how. 

Jennifer Manocherian 1:04:39
To plays you and talking to you. I love it when you laugh. Nobody gets to see this because is a podcast. But when Rich laughs, he's in a chair that goes back and he goes back and I don't know if he hits his head on that virtual wall or not, but he goes way back. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:57
You know? But it's it's from all the years of me playing Santa Claus, you know. 

Jennifer Manocherian 1:05:03
Oh, wow. This was well, you would be a good Santa. I can see that. You've got the beard. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:10
Oh, God. You got the white beard. Jennifer, thank you so much. 

Jennifer Manocherian 1:05:16
You're welcome. Thank you.