Jessica Hackmann on ADHD, Time Mastery & Emotional Strength

Rich Bennett 0:00
Thanks for joining the conversation where we explore the stories and experiences that shape our world. I'm your host, Rich Bennett, and today I am thrilled to welcome Jessica Hartman, an executive function coach based in Baltimore, Maryland, and the founder of Brave Connections Coaching and Advocacy. Jessica specializes in helping teens and adults improve their time management organization and emotional regulation, using research based tools to overcome chronic dis organization. Through her work, she empowers individuals to create more balanced, productive lives while fostering self-awareness and personal growth. Jessica's approach helps clients rediscover joy and confidence in their daily routines, making life feel a little more manageable and a lot more fulfilling. I cannot wait to get into this because, well, first of all, welcome, Jessica. 

Jessica Hackmann 0:58
Having me. 

Rich Bennett 0:59
I think this is yeah, especially is the time management and the organization. I don't think kids are even taught that in school. They know. 

Jessica Hackmann 1:10
Now they they really aren't unless you have a, you know, really strong parent at home that's modeling it or you just naturally pick up your teacher and. 

Rich Bennett 1:19
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 1:20
You know, routines. You you're really not taught. They give you structure, but it's not something that's systematically part of like a curriculum 

Rich Bennett 1:27
Right. Or 

Jessica Hackmann 1:28
anything. 

Rich Bennett 1:28
anything. I think the only time I us the only class I seen it talked to my daughter. And this was in high school. I think she was taking a business management class, which. You know, make sense. If you're teaching business management, you need to have the time management and your organization skills. 

Jessica Hackmann 1:45
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:46
All right. Before we get into the business, when you were at because I love asking people this, when you went to school, was this your plan? Is this what you wanted to do? 

Jessica Hackmann 1:57
So I went to school to. 

Rich Bennett 1:59
Well, I hope so. 

Jessica Hackmann 2:02
I went to college initially to be a marine biologist. No idea why, but I thought I 

Rich Bennett 2:08
Used to go to Disney World. You 

Jessica Hackmann 2:11
had some free will. 

Rich Bennett 2:11
okay? 

Jessica Hackmann 2:12
Favorite movies. So I thought that was going to be really cool. That is not at all what I excelled in. Psychology became my passion, and so I guess I was. I graduated early because I, to be quite honest, couldn't afford it. And so I took all these classes over the summer and was able. 

Rich Bennett 2:28
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 2:28
Three years. And my professor said, Well, what are you going to do with a bachelor's in clinical psychology? And I said, What are you talking about? She said, You could be a drug and addictions counselor. 

Rich Bennett 2:38
Ooh. 

Jessica Hackmann 2:39
Otherwise you are having to go to graduate school. So I went to graduate school and I had to figure out for what? And I love kids. I've always loved kids. 

Rich Bennett 2:48
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 2:48
I. Teacher, but I didn't want some of the things that came along with being a teacher because to be quite honest, I would argue it's probably the hardest job in the world. So I found, you know, psychology and teaching education is stuff in school psychology, so. 

Rich Bennett 3:03
Wow. 

Jessica Hackmann 3:04
So I became a school psychologist and it was through, you know, virtual learning and doing all that stuff. The summer of 21. So we were back in person. You know, teachers were no longer the heroes. You know, school systems were the. 

Rich Bennett 3:19
Mm. 

Jessica Hackmann 3:19
Because we had all this lag in learning. And basically I went to my husband and I said, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't really like this. You know, it's the bureaucracy and, you know, just the difficulty of. 

Rich Bennett 3:32
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 3:32
Job just changed so much. That executive function was something I always loved doing as a school psychologist with my teenagers. At a high school I worked in so I he was like, Well, open a business. Why don't you just try to do that on your own? And so here we 

Rich Bennett 3:47
Your 

Jessica Hackmann 3:47
are. 

Rich Bennett 3:47
husband suggested that. 

Jessica Hackmann 3:48
He did. And. 

Rich Bennett 3:49
Wow. 

Jessica Hackmann 3:49
My my response to him was to work harder. But, you know, it's it's been a road, you know, the last couple of years trying to do both jobs. And I've slowly kind of stepped out of that school psych role. 

Rich Bennett 4:00
Mm. 

Jessica Hackmann 4:01
And now, you know, having the business, I've had my own, you know, in terms of a business, an LLC since 21. But just I would say this past March, you know, officially out on my own. So. 

Rich Bennett 4:13
Wow, that's good. Dow and your clients are specifically teens. 

Jessica Hackmann 4:18
So I do see I would say elementary age and up. 

Rich Bennett 4:22
Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 4:23
Kids. There tends to be a larger parent presence because the kids, they really need that wraparound support. So much of their life is not necessarily in their hands. And so elementary kids, I do work with parents as well and. 

Rich Bennett 4:37
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 4:37
Middle and high school, you know, is really a bulk of my client load at the moment. And then I have a lot of that are young adults into I mean, I have retirees. 

Rich Bennett 4:47
Really? 

Jessica Hackmann 4:48
If that are just like, what do I do with my time? You know, I was so busy at life, and now that I don't have that 9 to 5 job, I just kind of find myself walking in circles and not feeling productive. So I work with really all ages. 

Rich Bennett 5:02
Okay. Now, explain. Explain their body. And I'm sure there is a difference when an executive function is compared to say what everybody considers a therapist. 

Jessica Hackmann 5:15
So. So coaching and therapy are very different. In the sense that therapy is a diagnostic, you know, So we are we're labeling, you know, the symptoms that you're you're managing or your. 

Rich Bennett 5:26
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 5:27
And then we are kind of taking that and understanding, you know, the why behind what you're doing. And so if you have depression and you're not getting up and being productive, then we're figuring out you know, the why and the patterns that are created because of that. Coaching is very different in the sense that not to say I don't care what your diagnosis is, whether you have one or don't or your past, but it is really present and future focused. 

Rich Bennett 5:48
Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 5:49
So very much solution oriented. I sometimes I'll say we're not admiring the problem. We're kind of looking at the problem and figuring out how to fix it. 

Rich Bennett 5:57
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 5:58
So it's much more immediate response, whereas therapy you might be in for, you know, months, years, kind of over time analyzing the different types of patterns that have come about and trying to work through those. Whereas coaching is you come in with a problem. We, you know, kind of both as a team, look at that problem, figure out what types of things are contributing to the maintenance of. 

Rich Bennett 6:20
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 6:20
And then we're putting in those new strategies. So it tends to be a much quicker response in terms of bringing about change. And the idea is that, you know, not to say I don't have clients that I've had for years, but the idea is that I teach and support you in building those systems, and then you go and you just keep them in place. 

Rich Bennett 6:39
So you're basically, let's say, you know, someone going through anxiety, depression, ADHD, whatever. You're the human medicine, I guess you could say. 

Jessica Hackmann 6:48
I mean. Well, yeah, the idea even, you know, if you bring up medicine, the idea behind medicine is really to make you available to learn the new skills. You know, ideally, we don't want to put somebody on medicine and they stay on medicine the rest of their life. 

Rich Bennett 7:00
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 7:01
Yeah. Is that that kind of opens up those, you know, the opportunity in your brain, the neural pathways, you know, to kind of build the new skills. 

Rich Bennett 7:08
Mm. 

Jessica Hackmann 7:09
And then, you know, ideally it's the maintenance of those. Now I'm making it sound like it's really easy and it's not. 

Rich Bennett 7:15
No. 

Jessica Hackmann 7:15
But. At the end of the day, it is very clear systems in. 

Rich Bennett 7:18
Mm hmm. 

Jessica Hackmann 7:19
You were able to maintain the systems through, you know, that discipline, then you were able to be successful and change those things. 

Rich Bennett 7:26
Okay. And you said you started this in 2021. 

Jessica Hackmann 7:28
Mm hmm. Yes. 

Rich Bennett 7:30
So if you don't mind me asking how many clients you have now. 

Jessica Hackmann 7:33
Currently on my caseload. 

Rich Bennett 7:35
Well, that's okay, because some of them may 

Jessica Hackmann 7:36
They 

Rich Bennett 7:36
have 

Jessica Hackmann 7:36
are they? 

Rich Bennett 7:37
already. 

Jessica Hackmann 7:37
Yeah, they come. 

Rich Bennett 7:37
Yeah, they come and go. All right. What do you average now? 

Jessica Hackmann 7:41
I've seen well over 200 people. 

Rich Bennett 7:44
20 really in three years. 

Jessica Hackmann 7:46
So currently I have 40. Let's see. I looked at it last week. It was 45 active clients last week, so. 

Rich Bennett 7:54
But they come. 

Jessica Hackmann 7:55
Come and go, you know, and it changes who they are, you know, maybe I.C.U. And then six months later, I hear from you and you say, My son's really struggling, and I, you know. Do you? 

Rich Bennett 8:03
But it's still amazing in only three years. 

Jessica Hackmann 8:05
Well, I mean, think about it, though, like this. You know, there's a lot of bad that came from COVID. 

Rich Bennett 8:10
Well, yeah. Oh, yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 8:11
This has really turned our world upside down. 

Rich Bennett 8:13
Mm. 

Jessica Hackmann 8:14
And I think that, you know, just the digital age in general, you know, that this generation of students has never known life without a screen. So. 

Rich Bennett 8:22
It's true. 

Jessica Hackmann 8:23
They between having that personal cell phone or between, you know, or their their parent having that cell phone, you know, they are constantly connected in that. 

Rich Bennett 8:31
Mm. 

Jessica Hackmann 8:33
And that, I think, has taken away the simplicity of paper, pencil, you know, and having binders and folders. Now they're they're having to manage this online, you know, folder system where some teachers might put everything up, some teachers don't. You know it. You're really struggling as a student and as an employee, you 

Rich Bennett 8:50
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 8:50
know. Manage that virtual world. Some people just aren't good. They need I mean, and I'm personally part of this, I need that paper pencil in front of me to manage things. You know, it's just not the same as reading it on a screen. 

Rich Bennett 9:02
Are there any other businesses like yours around? 

Jessica Hackmann 9:05
There are. 

Rich Bennett 9:06
There are. 

Jessica Hackmann 9:07
Yeah, there are. I mean, they're obviously not you know, it's not inundated market the way it is with therapy, you know. 

Rich Bennett 9:12
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 9:13
Best, you know, at every corner. But there are coaches and there are coaches who specialize in different things, you know? So there's there's relationship coaches. There's career coaches. 

Rich Bennett 9:22
There. 

Jessica Hackmann 9:23
And so the executive function, I find, you know, first off for me, I personally walk the walk. So I it's a lived experience. It's something that I'm very passionate about because it's something that I have to work at, you know, on a. 

Rich Bennett 9:34
Mm hmm. 

Jessica Hackmann 9:36
But I think that it it allows me the the opportunity to kind of meet people in many different walks of life. 

Rich Bennett 9:43
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 9:44
It Just my own personal brain would get bored if I was just writing resumes all day or if I was teaching. Say writing or, you know, relationship coaching. 

Rich Bennett 9:55
All right. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Because you said you had you more or less had you coached yourself, I take it, or did you have your own coach? 

Jessica Hackmann 10:03
No, I'm. No, I wish I knew that this existed. And I've often. 

Rich Bennett 10:06
Oh, wow. 

Jessica Hackmann 10:07
I said to my husband, like, maybe one day I'll get one, you know, because. 

Rich Bennett 10:09
Right. Is. 

Jessica Hackmann 10:10
It's a lot. So I was a late diagnosis with ADHD. 

Rich Bennett 10:14
Really? 

Jessica Hackmann 10:15
Yeah. Really? I felt the same way. I had a I had a friend probably in about, I don't know, 2019 say that she was diagnosed with ADHD. And I was like, What? Because in my head, ADHD was, you know, the boy in elementary school who couldn't sit in a seat. You know, I had a cousin who was very hyperactive. You know, I never saw ADHD for what it truly is. And so that, you know, again, COVID brought out in me, you know, as I'm at home trying to be a school psychologist and I've got two kids that are trying to learn. I felt like just a fish out of water. I could 

Rich Bennett 10:47
Well. 

Jessica Hackmann 10:47
not put one foot in front of the other. 

Rich Bennett 10:49
We made sure you were diagnosed as an adult. 

Jessica Hackmann 10:52
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 10:53
Wow. 

Jessica Hackmann 10:55
Which is. It's actually really common. It's this is happening more and more and maybe it's our lives. 

Rich Bennett 11:00
Well, I guess, 

Jessica Hackmann 11:01
But if you. 

Rich Bennett 11:01
I mean, I'm a lot older, but yeah, because back when I was in school, there wasn't a thing called ADHD. We were either we considered dumb or lazy. 

Jessica Hackmann 11:10
Right, Exactly. Yeah. And there was a special program. 

Rich Bennett 11:12
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 11:13
You know, level five that you were shoved into and 

Rich Bennett 11:15
Oh, God. 

Jessica Hackmann 11:16
yeah, so so it just, you know, when I look back, there were things that maybe I blamed on something else. 

Rich Bennett 11:23
Mm hmm. 

Jessica Hackmann 11:24
My parents were divorced and so I was always leaving things places. And I was like, Well, it's because there's two households, 

Rich Bennett 11:29
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 11:29
you know, or the schedule wasn't consistent. But the one thing that kind of stands out to me is, you know, I was an A-B student, but I never had I never had the study skills. It was sort of came to me naturally. So 

Rich Bennett 11:41
Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 11:42
That's because that's just what I got. If I earn today, it's because I worked for it. But it wasn't because I put all this time and effort in. I just couldn't sustain. You know, we didn't have I can't play with our spark notes. You know, these all these opportunities for kids now to kind of get the the small version of the novel we had. 

Rich Bennett 12:00
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 12:01
And I didn't read a single novel. You know, it was just like I got the CliffsNotes. I mean, as soon as you told me what the book was, I was at the mall the next weekend buying the CliffsNotes because I couldn't read through these boring books I loved to read, But my. 

Rich Bennett 12:13
I looked for the movie. 

Jessica Hackmann 12:15
Exactly. 

Rich Bennett 12:17
Wow. 

Jessica Hackmann 12:17
So when I look back at who I was as a student, I know I could have done better. 

Rich Bennett 12:22
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 12:22
You know, if I had had maybe somebody teaching me those executive function skills. 

Rich Bennett 12:27
Okay. So when you found that your that you had ADHD, what was your first reaction? 

Jessica Hackmann 12:34
It was really validating because it. 

Rich Bennett 12:36
Really? 

Jessica Hackmann 12:37
There's things about my personality that, you know, like I've always been a planner, so I was. Of the trips in college or the, you know, the conference. You know, when I first went into being a school psychologist or, you know, when my kids got into sports teams, I was organizing the dinner, 

Rich Bennett 12:53
I 

Jessica Hackmann 12:53
I 

Rich Bennett 12:53
was 

Jessica Hackmann 12:53
was 

Rich Bennett 12:53
like, 

Jessica Hackmann 12:53
organizing the tournament, whatever. 

Rich Bennett 12:55
Wow. 

Jessica Hackmann 12:55
So I've always had those 

Rich Bennett 12:56
Types 

Jessica Hackmann 12:56
types 

Rich Bennett 12:57
of 

Jessica Hackmann 12:57
of 

Rich Bennett 12:57
things. 

Jessica Hackmann 12:57
things. That was just where I excelled. But. 

Rich Bennett 12:58
Mm. 

Jessica Hackmann 12:59
Flipside of that, you know that there's a lot of frustration 

Rich Bennett 13:01
Frustration. 

Jessica Hackmann 13:02
because it was in and out of the house. 

Rich Bennett 13:04
Six times 

Jessica Hackmann 13:04
Was because I didn't know where I put my keys or, you know, I paid 

Rich Bennett 13:08
he 

Jessica Hackmann 13:08
bills late. And so then I got 

Rich Bennett 13:10
stuck 

Jessica Hackmann 13:10
stuck 

Rich Bennett 13:10
with. 

Jessica Hackmann 13:10
with a $25, you know, late fee. Or I. You know, my dad was always late. You asked. 

Rich Bennett 13:17
Hmm. My dad. 

Jessica Hackmann 13:17
As Italian. And so I just that was just who I was like, you're just. 

Rich Bennett 13:20
Yeah, 

Jessica Hackmann 13:21
10 minutes late. And so it wasn't until my kids got into travel sports that I even learned how to show up on time because that meant a 

Rich Bennett 13:29
a 

Jessica Hackmann 13:29
consequence 

Rich Bennett 13:29
concept. 

Jessica Hackmann 13:29
for them, you know, if you weren't. 

Rich Bennett 13:30
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 13:31
Surely you relate. That became my mantra. And that is. 

Rich Bennett 13:34
What I apply 

Jessica Hackmann 13:35
I lied 

Rich Bennett 13:35
to 

Jessica Hackmann 13:35
to 

Rich Bennett 13:35
my 

Jessica Hackmann 13:35
my life, you know? So I had to kind of 

Rich Bennett 13:38
learning 

Jessica Hackmann 13:38
learn these 

Rich Bennett 13:38
is. 

Jessica Hackmann 13:38
little tricks along the way as 

Rich Bennett 13:41
As 

Jessica Hackmann 13:41
an. 

Rich Bennett 13:41
an adult because. 

Jessica Hackmann 13:41
Because it wasn't something that was explicitly taught. 

Rich Bennett 13:43
There 

Jessica Hackmann 13:44
And, you know, 

Rich Bennett 13:45
certainly 

Jessica Hackmann 13:45
certainly was 

Rich Bennett 13:45
was 

Jessica Hackmann 13:46
a struggle. It was very frustrating. So it was to hear ADHD. Not that it was an excuse, but it was it was 

Rich Bennett 13:51
validation. 

Jessica Hackmann 13:51
a validation. And then I kind of dove head first into learning about it, like because now I could see my brain in this new way of not as something that had a deficit or a flaw, you know, like, oh, this is just Jessica, this is what she does. But it was more like, Oh, okay, now I get it. And how can I kind of create some type of hack around this? You. 

Rich Bennett 14:11
Mm. 

Jessica Hackmann 14:12
Strategy. So now to show up at. A certain time. 

Rich Bennett 14:16
I know. I 

Jessica Hackmann 14:17
I 

Rich Bennett 14:17
have 

Jessica Hackmann 14:17
have 

Rich Bennett 14:17
to. 

Jessica Hackmann 14:17
to back roadmap that so really my Iraq. 

Rich Bennett 14:18
Arrival time. 

Jessica Hackmann 14:19
Time is 11. And then that means I have to leave at this time and I have to, you know, assume I'm going to leave something in the house and have to go back inside and get it. 

Rich Bennett 14:26
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 14:26
So those are the ways that I've sort of managed it. But it's. 

Rich Bennett 14:30
It has 

Jessica Hackmann 14:30
Has 

Rich Bennett 14:31
come, 

Jessica Hackmann 14:31
come to my realization that 

Rich Bennett 14:32
there's 

Jessica Hackmann 14:32
there's creative 

Rich Bennett 14:33
creative. 

Jessica Hackmann 14:33
parts of me that are a a definite. 

Rich Bennett 14:37
Connection. 

Jessica Hackmann 14:37
Action to that ADHD. And so 

Rich Bennett 14:39
Wow. 

Jessica Hackmann 14:40
in that way, you know, when I can get hyper focused on something, I don't see that as like I'm being lazy, avoiding something else. I see that as like, this is the cool thing. 

Rich Bennett 14:49
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 14:50
Works. 

Rich Bennett 14:51
In a way, I guess you could say it's also a blessing because you're teaching people with ADHD. What better teacher than somebody that has it and is, you know, you're helping yourself. So you're 

I guess you're like the textbook, the guidebook to show People say, look, if I can do it, you can do it. 

Jessica Hackmann 15:15
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 15:16
It's almost like like a peer recovery specialist in the addiction world. 

Jessica Hackmann 15:20
Mm. 

Rich Bennett 15:20
You know, it's somebody that's in recovery themselves. They know it better than anybody else. The other thing is, was sitting here thinking, because, you know, with you being a young adult and then getting to find out you have ADHD. It was like short term memory things you couldn't remember, like your keys. 

A lot of people I don't I think it's nothing but loud music. Early dementia. 

Jessica Hackmann 15:47
I literally said this yesterday. I said I. 

Rich Bennett 15:48
Are you serious? 

Jessica Hackmann 15:50
Alzheimer's is a thing. I have it. I mean, there's there's things that I tell, you know, my friends about just is almost like a red flag, like. 

Rich Bennett 15:58
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 15:58
Then go down in the next year. Like this is where it started because this happened. Yeah. No, it's it's really crazy. 

Rich Bennett 16:06
Wow. 

Jessica Hackmann 16:07
Yeah, I have. Thank God I have a visual strength, I think, in my memory, because I can. I'm good at hiding stuff for myself. 

Rich Bennett 16:15
Mm. 

Jessica Hackmann 16:16
So 

Rich Bennett 16:16
So 

Jessica Hackmann 16:16
like, for instance, my husband's gotten Christmas gifts in July because I'm like, I 

Rich Bennett 16:20
I 

Jessica Hackmann 16:20
bought 

Rich Bennett 16:20
bought. 

Jessica Hackmann 16:20
this. I didn't remember our stuff. 

Rich Bennett 16:22
Behind the 

Jessica Hackmann 16:23
Guest 

Rich Bennett 16:23
guest bedroom. 

Jessica Hackmann 16:23
bedroom bed. You know, so I come across all these little treasures because. 

Rich Bennett 16:27
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 16:29
But my visual memory allows me to kind of see like, okay, where did I put that? I'm like, I feel like it's on a shelf somewhere, you know, and I can kind of visualize what I did with it. But that autopilot kicks in and I you know, I'm just I'm going through the motions and I'm not necessarily thinking about. 

Rich Bennett 16:45
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 16:46
What it is that I'm doing. 

Rich Bennett 16:47
So with you, because I. You're probably like me. I mean, I keep the calendar. I'm always having to write things down. Um, although I. Maybe I should get diagnosed. I don't know. Mean, is there an app or anything that you use for yourself, or is it like pen, paper or, you know, what do you do like your every, every day normal routine so you don't forget things. 

Jessica Hackmann 17:14
So I have. So the business is keeping me honest. 

Rich Bennett 17:17
Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 17:18
Do keep. I. I try very hard to keep that schedule very tight because. 

Rich Bennett 17:23
Mm hmm. 

Jessica Hackmann 17:23
People have the opportunity to schedule online. So if I book a, you know, orthodontist appointment for my daughter and that's not on there, that's an open slot for somebody to take. 

Rich Bennett 17:31
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 17:31
So. So that is helping me to be very deliberate about what goes on my schedule in terms of just a task list. I love just the basic reminders app or the Notes app. 

Rich Bennett 17:43
Mm hmm. 

Jessica Hackmann 17:44
What I find with my phone is it gives me the opportunity to become distracted. So if 

Rich Bennett 17:48
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 17:49
Put a note in. I see. I have a text message or I see I have an email now. 

Rich Bennett 17:52
Now I'm off track. 

Jessica Hackmann 17:54
So if I am out and I don't have the opportunity to use a paper pencil, note the. But if it is, you know, if it's like a Sunday and I have a list of things I need to do around the house, I make that to do list with my coffee and it sits on the table and I just keep 

Rich Bennett 18:08
Returning 

Jessica Hackmann 18:08
returning 

Rich Bennett 18:09
to 

Jessica Hackmann 18:09
to it 

Rich Bennett 18:09
it and 

Jessica Hackmann 18:09
and 

Rich Bennett 18:09
crossing 

Jessica Hackmann 18:09
crossing it 

Rich Bennett 18:10
it 

Jessica Hackmann 18:10
off. 

Rich Bennett 18:10
off. 

Jessica Hackmann 18:11
That is 

Rich Bennett 18:11
Something 

Jessica Hackmann 18:11
something 

Rich Bennett 18:11
that 

Jessica Hackmann 18:11
that my kids know to do now. You know, if they have if we're 

Rich Bennett 18:14
packing 

Jessica Hackmann 18:14
packing for 

Rich Bennett 18:14
for. 

Jessica Hackmann 18:15
a trip or they're going to a camp or whatever. We sit down and we make that list together, and then they are. 

Rich Bennett 18:20
Revisiting the. 

Jessica Hackmann 18:20
That list because it internalizes that thought know. 

Rich Bennett 18:24
Yeah. Able 

Jessica Hackmann 18:25
Able to kind of free up that mind space because it is there and 

Rich Bennett 18:28
to 

Jessica Hackmann 18:28
you can 

Rich Bennett 18:28
can. 

Jessica Hackmann 18:29
then return to it. 

Rich Bennett 18:31
If you don't. Mommy, how many kids? Two. Two. If you don't mind me asking, how how are the kids doing? I mean, do you know if either one of them have ADHD or anything? 

Jessica Hackmann 18:40
Well. So the one was just diagnosed about two weeks ago and. 

Rich Bennett 18:44
Really. It's funny because. 

Jessica Hackmann 18:45
Because we she's she's my younger daughter. And we have said since she was born, she is going to be like class president or she's going to throw the best parties. You know, it's like, where is she going to put this power? She. 

Rich Bennett 18:57
Or big kick ass presidential party? Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 19:05
So she always has had this, like, passion and zest for life. 

Rich Bennett 19:09
Mm. 

Jessica Hackmann 19:09
It was Facebook videos, the pop up, and it's like she's so loud and boisterous and and in a nice way, you 

Rich Bennett 19:15
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 19:15
know. Noxious. But she has always been that kid. And what we have found as she's grown is that she's kind of spacey. So it looks like she's staring at us. She's listening. 

Rich Bennett 19:25
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 19:26
Completely present. We give her a direction and she we say, Ma'am or sir, she'll say, ma'am. And it's like, where were you? You know, you were you were here and listening, like what just happened? And so we've started to kind of see where she's not necessarily focused. 

Rich Bennett 19:40
Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 19:40
But what was really kind of the clincher for us was she plays high level lacrosse and the coach did evaluations in the spring. And the one thing the coach said was it seems like you're out to lunch. Like when you are out on the field, you're doing a great job 

Rich Bennett 19:56
And. 

Jessica Hackmann 19:56
and then all of a sudden it's like a play. 

Rich Bennett 19:57
It happens in front. 

Jessica Hackmann 19:58
One of you, and you don't seem to even notice. And so that you've got to pick up that processing speed. You've got to be able to stay at the speed of the game. 

Rich Bennett 20:05
Yeah, because that can be dangerous. 

Jessica Hackmann 20:06
Well, yes, that and it doesn't look well, you know, And then, Wolf, when you. Offense meant so. 

Rich Bennett 20:11
Well, yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 20:12
So that was sort of what turned the tables for us is there's been little things along the way, but it functionally was not impacting her to a point that we I wanted to intervene. And so now we 

Rich Bennett 20:23
I've 

Jessica Hackmann 20:23
have 

Rich Bennett 20:23
had 

Jessica Hackmann 20:23
had 

Rich Bennett 20:23
her 

Jessica Hackmann 20:23
her evaluated and we are trialling 

Rich Bennett 20:25
with 

Jessica Hackmann 20:25
some 

Rich Bennett 20:25
the 

Jessica Hackmann 20:25
medicine. My other 

Rich Bennett 20:26
other 

Jessica Hackmann 20:26
daughter 

Rich Bennett 20:26
daughter. 

Jessica Hackmann 20:27
is she's 

Rich Bennett 20:28
She's 

Jessica Hackmann 20:28
my 

Rich Bennett 20:28
my. 

Jessica Hackmann 20:28
husband. She is so organised, I say he's like for a. 

Rich Bennett 20:31
The Boy Scouts. 

Jessica Hackmann 20:34
Making the list. She will share her apps with me. Mommy, did you see this new app? I really like this widget or. 

Rich Bennett 20:41
Mm. 

Jessica Hackmann 20:41
Is. I mean, her handwriting is pristine. Like everything about her. She is type A. 

Rich Bennett 20:47
I'm sorry. When you think of it that you said handwriting. 

Jessica Hackmann 20:50
Oh, yeah. Her. 

Rich Bennett 20:50
They actually teach it in school still. 

Jessica Hackmann 20:52
Well, print the. 

Rich Bennett 20:54
Okay. Okay. Look. Okay. I didn't say. Wait a minute. What's it just. 

Jessica Hackmann 21:00
If she turned into a teacher, I wouldn't be one that surprised me. 

Rich Bennett 21:02
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 21:02
Who she is. She's very organized. There's a lot of methodical thought into the way that she approaches a task. And, you know, she's she's definitely not my child in 

Rich Bennett 21:15
In every 

Jessica Hackmann 21:15
every other. 

Rich Bennett 21:16
other way. 

Jessica Hackmann 21:18
So. So but it's been good because, you know, I think that if I could say anything, you know, to your audience is it's not meant to be. You know, I don't see the label as a deficit. I'm not saying it's an. 

Rich Bennett 21:29
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 21:29
Well, by any means. But my daughter, my younger daughter, it's it's not going to be an excuse for her. It's really a way for her to kind of embrace like, okay, so my brain works differently in 

Rich Bennett 21:40
Mm hmm. 

Jessica Hackmann 21:40
Need to do. And she's much more intentional about now the way she's preparing, you know, when she practices. It's not just that, um, you know, like wall ball that she's. 

Rich Bennett 21:52
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 21:52
It's the kind of working on the speed, the attack, you know, and kind of recognizing when things kind of happen, you know, more unexpectedly as she's practicing. 

Rich Bennett 22:03
So she one of your clients now? 

Jessica Hackmann 22:05
No, but she asked me to hire her and executive function coach. 

Rich Bennett 22:09
Okay, because I was good. I wanted to know how hard I would think it would be hard for you to do that. Being your own daughter. 

Jessica Hackmann 22:17
I mean, even as a school psychologist, my. 

Rich Bennett 22:18
Yeah. My husband. 

Jessica Hackmann 22:19
Some would say like, isn't this what you do? Like, you can't teach your own. 

Rich Bennett 22:24
Yeah. Yeah. There's something different there. I mean, you gave birth to him. You're. It's. 

It's hard to explain, but. Yeah, I. I wouldn't be able to either. 

Jessica Hackmann 22:36
No one in the way you have to backdoor it. I'm like, Well, my one client really likes this strategy. And the. Let it sit and they then, you know, shall think about it. But if I said you 

Rich Bennett 22:46
You 

Jessica Hackmann 22:46
need 

Rich Bennett 22:46
need. 

Jessica Hackmann 22:47
to do blah blah, blah, research shows that it does. She's not doing it. 

Rich Bennett 22:52
All right. With your wish. Because let's face it, clients are different. So unlike being a school teacher, you can't teach something the same way to each individual as you do in class. 

Jessica Hackmann 23:05
Mhm. 

Rich Bennett 23:06
So if you you have. I mean, you could be teaching one thing, but you got to change the way you're teaching it, right? 

Jessica Hackmann 23:12
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 23:12
Wow. 

Jessica Hackmann 23:13
Yeah, but that's, but that is what makes it. I mean, I love that you. 

Rich Bennett 23:17
That's what makes it fun, I guess you could say. 

Jessica Hackmann 23:19
And that's where. 

Rich Bennett 23:20
You really love what you're doing, don't you? 

Jessica Hackmann 23:22
I have the best clients. I mean. 

Rich Bennett 23:23
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 23:24
That the families that I get to work with, I mean, out of all those clients, there's been a small handful where I just felt like we didn't click. But otherwise, you know, I've had I've had the one client say, like, you're part of the tribe and that's how it feels, you know? 

Rich Bennett 23:38
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 23:39
My husband. He was like, You found your people? I'm like, These are my. 

It's very. It's I think it's more celebratory in. Inspiring and motivating for myself, for them, you know, for their families. So it's it's really nice. 

Rich Bennett 23:56
How many? Even though it's only been three years, you still have passed clients now, How many of them still keep in touch, even if it's just to say, you know, how great they're doing right now? MISCHKA You won't believe what I did today. 

Jessica Hackmann 24:08
So I have I have a lot of clients 

Rich Bennett 24:11
And to 

Jessica Hackmann 24:11
who have 

Rich Bennett 24:11
have 

Jessica Hackmann 24:12
checked 

Rich Bennett 24:12
checked in 

Jessica Hackmann 24:12
in. You know, the I think kind 

Rich Bennett 24:14
kind 

Jessica Hackmann 24:14
of 

Rich Bennett 24:14
of what 

Jessica Hackmann 24:14
what makes 

Rich Bennett 24:14
makes 

Jessica Hackmann 24:14
the difference is if I see 

Rich Bennett 24:16
you. 

Jessica Hackmann 24:16
you for more than a handful of sessions. 

Rich Bennett 24:18
Mm hmm. 

Jessica Hackmann 24:19
Pretty much still in touch with you. You know, obviously, there's 

Rich Bennett 24:21
For some 

Jessica Hackmann 24:21
some that 

Rich Bennett 24:21
that have. 

Jessica Hackmann 24:21
have come through where I saw maybe once or twice either, you know, financially scheduling wise. I've had clients that have come and said, this is what I need. And I'm like, I think you're great. You know, I don't really know what we're supposed to work on because I think you're doing a really good job. So, you know, but for the most part, I feel like the clients that I have built that relationship. 

Rich Bennett 24:38
Relationship with have stayed. I just want to I want to note something here as well, because I didn't know you can't clients, but it just came out of me naturally. But I want to I want to thank you for that because other people would say patients. 

Jessica Hackmann 24:57
No. 

Rich Bennett 24:58
And they're not. That term patient. To me, it's got a negative ring to it. 

Jessica Hackmann 25:03
Well. 

Rich Bennett 25:04
Clients, they feel like they're part of. Yeah. Yeah. So. 

Jessica Hackmann 25:07
It definitely is. Yeah. Patients carries out like medical. 

Rich Bennett 25:12
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 25:13
The office feel. 

Rich Bennett 25:14
Wow. Now, is it just you or run running the business or do you have other people that are working with You 

Jessica Hackmann 25:20
So I have 

Rich Bennett 25:21
have 

Jessica Hackmann 25:21
been 

Rich Bennett 25:21
been very 

Jessica Hackmann 25:21
very fortunate. I 

Rich Bennett 25:23
supportive 

Jessica Hackmann 25:23
worked with 

Rich Bennett 25:23
with 

Jessica Hackmann 25:23
a 

Rich Bennett 25:23
a 

Jessica Hackmann 25:24
private 

Rich Bennett 25:24
lot of. 

Jessica Hackmann 25:24
practice in Bel Air for the. 

Rich Bennett 25:25
Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 25:26
And then when I. 

Rich Bennett 25:27
I shifted out onto my. 

Jessica Hackmann 25:28
Owen. I was able to find a. I'm actually in Sparks over, I guess it's north of Sun Valley. I don't really know. 

Rich Bennett 25:34
Yeah, well. 

Jessica Hackmann 25:36
But it's right, you know, 5 minutes from. 

Rich Bennett 25:38
From the Hutt Valley Town Centre. 

Jessica Hackmann 25:39
But it's. Therapeutic Office. For family 

Rich Bennett 25:44
Family. 

Jessica Hackmann 25:44
and behavioral health. So there's therapists that are in the office and then I am. Renting a space with. 

Rich Bennett 25:50
Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 25:50
So I have the camaraderie of, you know, the other therapists. I'm not kind of a one man show in a in an office by my. 

Rich Bennett 25:56
Mm hmm. 

Jessica Hackmann 25:58
And then there's that referral system, because obviously this goes hand in hand with that mental health piece. So it's 

Rich Bennett 26:02
it's really 

Jessica Hackmann 26:02
really nice 

Rich Bennett 26:03
that 

Jessica Hackmann 26:03
that 

Rich Bennett 26:03
I 

Jessica Hackmann 26:03
I have 

Rich Bennett 26:03
have them 

Jessica Hackmann 26:04
them there 

Rich Bennett 26:04
there. 

Jessica Hackmann 26:04
as well as, you know, I'm there. Should they see somebody? 

Rich Bennett 26:07
Right. So is everything you're doing in person or is it virtual and in-person? 

Jessica Hackmann 26:14
It's predominantly in-person. 

Rich Bennett 26:15
Okay, good. 

Jessica Hackmann 26:16
I That's how I work the best as I think. 

Rich Bennett 26:18
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 26:19
The clients. You know, this this clientele tends to be people who really prefer to be in person. You know, 

Rich Bennett 26:24
Yeah. It's 

Jessica Hackmann 26:25
Staring at a screen. So it's predominantly in-person, but it has been really 

Rich Bennett 26:29
really 

Jessica Hackmann 26:30
nice 

Rich Bennett 26:30
nice 

Jessica Hackmann 26:30
to 

Rich Bennett 26:30
to 

Jessica Hackmann 26:30
have 

Rich Bennett 26:30
have. 

Jessica Hackmann 26:30
the virtual option just because we, you know, if we have bad weather. 

Rich Bennett 26:33
Mm. 

Jessica Hackmann 26:34
You know, over the couple of years I had covered twice, you know, so like, I was able to kind of continue on. 

Rich Bennett 26:39
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 26:40
See them, you know, virtually. 

Rich Bennett 26:42
Okay, So explain all the services that you offer. 

Jessica Hackmann 26:46
So I do. Obviously into. 

Rich Bennett 26:49
Individual. Mhm. That 

Jessica Hackmann 26:51
That 

Rich Bennett 26:51
we've 

Jessica Hackmann 26:51
we've 

Rich Bennett 26:51
discussed 

Jessica Hackmann 26:51
discussed 

Rich Bennett 26:51
in 

Jessica Hackmann 26:51
in person 

Rich Bennett 26:52
person 

Jessica Hackmann 26:52
or 

Rich Bennett 26:52
or 

Jessica Hackmann 26:52
through telehealth. When I went out 

Rich Bennett 26:54
out 

Jessica Hackmann 26:54
on 

Rich Bennett 26:54
on 

Jessica Hackmann 26:54
my 

Rich Bennett 26:54
my 

Jessica Hackmann 26:54
own, 

Rich Bennett 26:54
own. 

Jessica Hackmann 26:55
one of the things that I had my I had an attorney draw up contracts. One of the contracts that I wanted was called Scope of services. And essentially what that means. 

Rich Bennett 27:04
Means is that. 

Jessica Hackmann 27:04
That if I want to take a walk with you because you don't do well sitting in an office talking. 

Rich Bennett 27:10
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 27:10
If we're working on social skills and, you know, kind of more of that job training if we want to walk through, you know. 

Rich Bennett 27:16
The festival and. 

Jessica Hackmann 27:17
Go door to door. We can do that. 

Rich Bennett 27:19
Oh. 

Jessica Hackmann 27:19
Services says that you understand that you are losing that confidentiality. If we leave the. 

Rich Bennett 27:25
Right. Of 

Jessica Hackmann 27:26
Of 

Rich Bennett 27:26
the 

Jessica Hackmann 27:26
the 

Rich Bennett 27:26
office. 

Jessica Hackmann 27:26
office. But I so I do kind of in person out in the community and 

Rich Bennett 27:31
And then 

Jessica Hackmann 27:32
then 

Rich Bennett 27:32
I. 

Jessica Hackmann 27:32
I also offer group supports. So I have like family, children supports where I've had the whole family and kids. We've come together, 

obviously, like on behalf of the client, you know. 

Rich Bennett 27:44
Yeah. Really nice. 

Jessica Hackmann 27:45
Because sometimes parents don't necessarily have an open mind as to what how their child's brain works. You know, so sometimes there's some rigid rules of you're doing homework here or you're going to not use your airpod, you know, to listen to background noise or whatever. And so sometimes it helps to kind of bridge that gap to say this is what works for them. Let's give it a try. 

Rich Bennett 28:04
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 28:05
Then we can kind of have that family session. And then I also do groups. So in the past, I've had 

Rich Bennett 28:11
But. 

Jessica Hackmann 28:11
I have see a fair amount of clients who actually have autism as well. 

Rich Bennett 28:14
Really? 

Jessica Hackmann 28:16
And so I had an autistic burnout group where, you know, it just. 

Rich Bennett 28:20
Autistic burnout. What? 

Jessica Hackmann 28:22
Well. So I don't know how much you know about autism, but it's a dysregulated central nervous system. 

Rich Bennett 28:28
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 28:29
And what happens with that is there's a lot of sensory processing. 

Rich Bennett 28:33
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 28:33
And so what ends up being is, is that autistic person, you know, whether they're working at a grocery store or they're working at an office or, you know, they're at home or they're, you know, wherever that job or school can really wear them down in terms. 

Rich Bennett 28:47
Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 28:49
And so what we end up seeing is that external response, you know, so maybe they're having a tantrum, maybe they're completely shut down, maybe they're, you know, really agitated. 

Rich Bennett 29:00
Mm hmm. 

Jessica Hackmann 29:00
What we needed to recognize is that those senses are kind of breaking down day by day by day. And if they're not doing anything to us to support that and to proactively manage that, that's where we get that burnout. 

Rich Bennett 29:12
Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 29:13
So we just kind of see the shutdown and we see them put the school, you know, or class or work or whatever, because they just can't. And so by proactively recognizing that your senses are being overworked and there are things you can do to. 

Rich Bennett 29:27
Mm hmm. 

Jessica Hackmann 29:28
Often that response ahead of time, then we don't get to that burning piece. 

Rich Bennett 29:33
Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 29:34
So so I had I had a group for that. I'm actually starting a group in September four. It depends on, you know, how you kind of see it. But I have a lot of parents that reach out and say, What do I do? Because I 

Rich Bennett 29:47
So 

Jessica Hackmann 29:47
have. 

Rich Bennett 29:48
like a parenting group. 

Jessica Hackmann 29:49
Well, and not just for like parenting of kids, but parenting of young adults. 

Rich Bennett 29:52
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 29:53
So you know, like fairly or to launch or like the boomerang generation where they've kind of left, went to school and now they've returned. I mean, this world is not set up for people, you know, to get apartments and houses very easily. So. 

Rich Bennett 30:06
Did you say? Boomerang generation? That's. 

Jessica Hackmann 30:09
Some way that, you know, I've seen it kind of referred to, but it's the kids that left and then came back for whatever reason 

Rich Bennett 30:15
Right. And 

Jessica Hackmann 30:16
and. 

Rich Bennett 30:16
I've never heard that term. 

Jessica Hackmann 30:17
Yeah. And so they're they're kind of living. No, I wouldn't say it's a good life. It's not a good life, but. 

Rich Bennett 30:23
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 30:23
Certainly an easier life if they're not responsible for, you know, the housekeeping and. And so what I find is a lot of, you know, my. That live at home who are young adults. They're not. They're sort of walking the walk of like a child, a teen. 

Rich Bennett 30:42
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 30:43
And not an adult. And so it's a it's a slippery slope. You want to be supportive? 

Rich Bennett 30:50
Mm hmm. But. 

Jessica Hackmann 30:51
But also, you know. 

Rich Bennett 30:52
All. 

Jessica Hackmann 30:53
Each. 

Rich Bennett 30:54
And the other thing is, too, because I just had somebody on not too long ago, we were told that like we've covered so that graduation, that graduating class of covered are now young adults. Um, and what was it? It's she said that the cover kids back then basically lost three years of social activity which is also affected their brain. I think a lot of those are the ones that are living at home. And I'm glad that you're doing this. Talk to the parents, because there's a lot and even even not even not just the young adults, but even teens, a lot of times parents don't know how to go about And I talk about this a lot because 

with my daughter, I get so upset with people when they my daughter has anxiety. 

Jessica Hackmann 31:53
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 31:54
And when people tell her, just you'll be fired, it's in your head. Duh. Of course it's in her head, but you just can't tell somebody to get over it. You can't try to push them. To a certain point or pass something, you need to know what you're dealing with because there's a times you may push too hard and you don't want to see what could happen. 

Jessica Hackmann 32:18
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 32:19
Wow. 

Jessica Hackmann 32:20
That's and a lot of times there is anxiety. 

Rich Bennett 32:22
Yeah, it's. 

Jessica Hackmann 32:23
It's that social anxiety or it's the the fear of failure because I went to school and I failed or. have this degree and I can't get a job. And so here I sit with my bachelors working retail. So it's I mean, it's not to say that there's, you know, I've got all the answers. You know, I. 

Rich Bennett 32:40
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 32:41
But but I think that their strength in numbers and I think that it's helpful to kind of have that space of I'm not alone and. 

Rich Bennett 32:49
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 32:49
And, you know, maybe you hear a strategy from someone else that worked for them, or maybe we band together and we can join forces and, you know, or there's a networking opportunity. Oh, your son has this degree? Well, I have a brother in law that does this, you know. So it's just I think that there's the opportunity all around for education, for, you know, that camaraderie. 

Rich Bennett 33:10
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 33:11
You know, just to kind of help people feel like there is a light at the end of the tunnel. 

Rich Bennett 33:15
So do you get out to talk to whether it be groups or schools or whatever about your business and what you do? 

Jessica Hackmann 33:21
I've done a few presentations. I did a presentation at a private school that was in. 

Rich Bennett 33:26
Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 33:27
Based. You know, so it was some some bullying stuff was going down toward the end of the year. So I came and spoke with the parents. I spoke with the kids. And, you know, the goal being to let's just be kind. 

Rich Bennett 33:38
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 33:39
And then I did a presentation for actually no to so. 

Rich Bennett 33:45
So for. 

Jessica Hackmann 33:46
Harford County, see CCAC, which is the special education citizens. 

Rich Bennett 33:50
I. 

Jessica Hackmann 33:50
Committee. I went and I did that. I didn't go anywhere for that one. I did that one online. That was one. Really. The book. ADHD 2.0 is an amazing book. It seems a little. 

Rich Bennett 34:01
ADHD 2.0. Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 34:05
So that's a that's a great book that I would recommend for for clients as well as parents. But just to kind of understand the the networks at play in our brain and ways that we can from a more holistic approach. 

Rich Bennett 34:16
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 34:17
So there's a whole section on medication. But there's other things that we can do, you know, with our diet or exercise, sleep. All of those things, you know, really have a in our chain. 

Rich Bennett 34:29
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 34:30
You know what we do with our brain. And then I did a talk in person for Cecil County's Special Education Citizens Advisory Committee. 

Rich Bennett 34:37
Okay. So with your clients, I just love that term with your clients when they come in. I guess, again, it's all going to depend on each individual. With coaching and here I'm thinking of like a health coach or something. But is there any exercises you do before you start working with them? In other words, like let's say I'm coming in to see you for time management. But I can't. I need to clear my brain. Do you do like breathing exercises with meditation or anything like that? 

Jessica Hackmann 35:13
Sometimes it. 

Rich Bennett 35:14
Really? 

Jessica Hackmann 35:16
I mean, that's not my you know, I have no background in it. You. 

Rich Bennett 35:19
Right. What? 

Jessica Hackmann 35:20
What I do for myself. 

Rich Bennett 35:21
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 35:23
It depends on kind of where they are. 

Rich Bennett 35:26
Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 35:27
Like they need something like that or, you know, a lot of times that's what I would recommend when I have clients that struggle with sleep. So, you know. With ADHD, the 

Rich Bennett 35:35
The 

Jessica Hackmann 35:35
brain 

Rich Bennett 35:35
brain is. 

Jessica Hackmann 35:35
is like a motor. It has a hard time shutting down. 

Rich Bennett 35:37
Yes. 

Jessica Hackmann 35:38
And so what I find. 

Rich Bennett 35:40
A 

Jessica Hackmann 35:40
A lot 

Rich Bennett 35:40
lot 

Jessica Hackmann 35:40
of my clients have 

Rich Bennett 35:41
really 

Jessica Hackmann 35:41
really 

Rich Bennett 35:41
forces 

Jessica Hackmann 35:41
poor sleep habits because when they can't fall asleep, they get 

Rich Bennett 35:44
frustrated 

Jessica Hackmann 35:44
frustrated and 

Rich Bennett 35:45
and 

Jessica Hackmann 35:45
they 

Rich Bennett 35:45
they 

Jessica Hackmann 35:45
turn 

Rich Bennett 35:45
turn 

Jessica Hackmann 35:45
to 

Rich Bennett 35:45
to. 

Jessica Hackmann 35:46
things that are increasing the risk of still not sleeping, you know? So they're. 

Rich Bennett 35:50
Like the screen. The Blu rays? Yes. 

Jessica Hackmann 35:53
So. So I do. 

Rich Bennett 35:55
A 

Jessica Hackmann 35:55
A 

Rich Bennett 35:55
lot. 

Jessica Hackmann 35:55
lot of that meditation type talk with. 

Rich Bennett 35:58
Clients. 

Jessica Hackmann 35:58
Struggling with sleep because I think that they you know that stressful just. 

Rich Bennett 36:03
Yeah. Is this 

Jessica Hackmann 36:04
It's 

Rich Bennett 36:04
going 

Jessica Hackmann 36:04
going 

Rich Bennett 36:04
to 

Jessica Hackmann 36:04
to be 

Rich Bennett 36:05
be one 

Jessica Hackmann 36:05
one of 

Rich Bennett 36:05
of 

Jessica Hackmann 36:05
those 

Rich Bennett 36:05
those? 

Jessica Hackmann 36:05
nights where I'm up until two in the morning, you know, and I have. 

Rich Bennett 36:08
A big day tomorrow. 

Jessica Hackmann 36:08
Tomorrow or I have to get up early. And so we we talk about that meditation because my my thought is we don't teach kids to swim when they're drowning. 

Rich Bennett 36:18
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 36:19
Them to swim in a very calm sea of space. And we kind of, you know, walk them through it. And that way, if in ever, hopefully never, they're in a situation they know how to swim. 

Rich Bennett 36:28
Mm hmm. 

Jessica Hackmann 36:29
You're not going to learn to use meditation or mindfulness. You know, when we are laying there at 12 at night, not able to get to sleep. But this is something that really needs to be part of our everyday routine. 

Rich Bennett 36:38
Right. And 

Jessica Hackmann 36:39
And I because of the way I deal with this, 3 minutes max, you know. So I think sometimes we get into this like, I want to meditate and we feel like we have to sit down for 1015, 20 minutes, 

Rich Bennett 36:50
know. 

Jessica Hackmann 36:51
and then we fail at it because that's insane. 

Rich Bennett 36:53
You can over meditate just like you can over medicate. You can never meditate. 

Jessica Hackmann 36:59
Too much. And. 

Rich Bennett 36:59
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 37:00
For the ADHD brain or the anxious brain that's kind of, you know, going so quickly. We need to to slow it down and do that at a smaller chunk. And so that's the kind of stuff that we'll talk about that. 

Rich Bennett 37:11
Wow. I I'm still just blown away that you've only been at this. Has it been a full three years? 

Jessica Hackmann 37:20
Yes, But so, I mean, my background was school psychology. 

Rich Bennett 37:23
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 37:23
Really where I lean so heavily on because. 

Rich Bennett 37:25
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 37:26
Part of that training and, you know, and working full time at a high school, you know, this is. 

Rich Bennett 37:32
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 37:32
All the problem. You know what I mean? Like even the most 

Rich Bennett 37:35
most. 

Jessica Hackmann 37:35
emotional kid, at the end of the day, there was some level of executive function. 

Rich Bennett 37:40
Right executive. 

Jessica Hackmann 37:41
You have dysfunction, you know, where they're just not managing, you know, the to do list well. 

Rich Bennett 37:46
But you're happy you didn't become a marine biologist, now, aren't you? 

Jessica Hackmann 37:51
A different creature. 

Rich Bennett 37:55
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 37:55
That was never going to be my thing. I don't know what I was thinking. 

Rich Bennett 37:59
You were an eighties, kid. I'm sure because my nieces are the same way. I think both of them, or at least two of them, wanted to be a marine biologist. And it was because of their free will saying 

Jessica Hackmann 38:10
Oh. 

Rich Bennett 38:11
it's like, Really? Who's the other one? Not Flipper. He was I don't know, but I. 

Jessica Hackmann 38:17
There were a couple that were very much in that that um. 

Rich Bennett 38:21
If you went to SeaWorld, forget it. You were hooked. Then when you start college, you do it is like, what did I get myself into? 

No, I got to do what? Help them with the baby. Hell, no. I don't think so. Someday. I love to ask people, especially when they're helping other people. Can you share a feel good story? Uh, you have to use a names about one of your clients. And just how happy you were to see the progression or, you know, whether it brought tears to your eyes or whatever. 

Jessica Hackmann 38:58
Let me think. So. So this. This is sort of a lot of my clients. 

Rich Bennett 39:03
Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 39:04
I have a lot of clients who arrive sort of at the. The. 

Rich Bennett 39:11
Bad kids. 

Jessica Hackmann 39:12
The kid that doesn't have goals, the kid that can't see themselves. 

Rich Bennett 39:17
Mm. 

Jessica Hackmann 39:18
You know, making it through this. Much less having any consideration of. Career college. And through this work and it doesn't take long. I think the progression of shift from this is not a behavioral problem per se. Like 

Rich Bennett 39:34
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 39:34
the. This isn't like laziness. This is just, you know, square peg, round hole. And so when we teach those strategies and we teach them, you know, that it doesn't have to be that you use the planner that the school provides and that you use the binder that the teacher recommends. 

Rich Bennett 39:50
Mm hmm. 

Jessica Hackmann 39:52
Then I see the grades change and that is where it really is. Very. You're smiling is very exciting because. 

Rich Bennett 40:00
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 40:00
They arrived usually begrudgingly. You know, that's the best. I love the challenge when they come in and they won't make eye contact. 

Rich Bennett 40:07
Uh huh. 

Jessica Hackmann 40:07
Mad that mom made them come or dad made them come or whatever. That is where when they start showing up and they come by themselves, by the way. 

Rich Bennett 40:14
They're looking forward to coming. 

Jessica Hackmann 40:16
I see them the first time with parent or whatever, and then it's them. You know, we do check ins, but it is it is about the client. 

Rich Bennett 40:22
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 40:23
And so that's where I see the biggest change, where like the report cards come out and maybe it was like A's and D's and now, you know, C's and I think I can get B's 

Rich Bennett 40:32
Wow. 

Jessica Hackmann 40:33
and so seeing that progression and I'm not doing anything like to be completely honest, I am, I am teaching strategy, but they are doing the work, you know, they're the ones at home that are that are putting the systems in place and doing the. 

Rich Bennett 40:44
But if it wasn't because of you, they wouldn't be able to. 

Jessica Hackmann 40:47
Yeah, but it's just. I mean, but I'm just teaching them, you know, like, these are just ideas, you know, the work 

Rich Bennett 40:52
He's 

Jessica Hackmann 40:52
is. 

Rich Bennett 40:53
coming in behind the scenes with them, what they're doing. 

Jessica Hackmann 40:55
In between the sessions. 

Rich Bennett 40:56
Right? Yeah, but I mean, still, you think about what does a teacher do in school? They're teaching. Yeah, well, that's true. But you're teaching these kids how to open up. How to be. Well, how to. I want to say. 

Overcome the obstacles they're hitting, you know, and letting them know that 

if somebody tells you, you can't do it. Don't listen to them. Show them that you can. Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 41:25
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 41:26
And I think that's something that unfortunately, a lot of kids and young adults have heard for many years is that they're told they can't do something. You know, a lot of them, once they're told that, they believe that. 

Jessica Hackmann 41:39
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 41:40
Especially kids of ADHD or even autism. You know, it's what it is. Part of the autism scale now, isn't it? It's not. Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 41:50
I mean, there's a there's a lot of co-morbidity, but there's. 

Rich Bennett 41:52
Right. Okay. I can't keep up with everything else in the autism field now. But, I mean, it's. I want to thank you for that, because you're helping these kids and these young adults and adults. 

Jessica Hackmann 42:06
Absolutely, because it's, you know, the parents, I think, unfortunately, get to their wit's end, you 

Rich Bennett 42:10
Yeah, just. 

Jessica Hackmann 42:11
Just you feel like I don't know how to help my kid. I don't know how to get the school to help my kid and. Where are we headed? You know, it's a lot of doom and gloom Where. 

Rich Bennett 42:21
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 42:21
Will becomes really aversive, you know, and it's just a battle and it ends up, you know, having an effect on your family relationships because you feel like you're just constantly at your kid trying. 

Rich Bennett 42:32
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 42:33
To. To perform. To. To study or to organize or do their homework or whatever. So 

Rich Bennett 42:40
So where would you like to see the visit? Well, first of all, did you think your business would be where it is now? 

Jessica Hackmann 42:47
now. 

Rich Bennett 42:47
In the first year here. 

Jessica Hackmann 42:48
No, I mean. 

Rich Bennett 42:49
Shock. 

Jessica Hackmann 42:50
Well, I. I think that there's a need. 

Rich Bennett 42:54
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 42:55
It's a valuable service. But so much of this has become second nature that it kind of feels like I'm teaching somebody something that that not that they should know, but they do know. 

Rich Bennett 43:06
They just don't know how to open it up. 

Jessica Hackmann 43:08
Right. 

Rich Bennett 43:08
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 43:08
And so so I didn't realize that some of these things, you know, are are just stuff that people didn't know. 

Rich Bennett 43:16
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 43:17
I knew they weren't taught, but they didn't pick up, you know, in life and that the parent can't teach the kid how to do these things. And so I didn't expect that the value you know, would be so, so strong. 

Rich Bennett 43:29
Our. 

Jessica Hackmann 43:29
So big. But I also I don't know, you know, it's like I don't, you know. 

Rich Bennett 43:36
It's overwhelming. 

Jessica Hackmann 43:37
Yeah. I mean, like, it's like, who am I, you know? 

Rich Bennett 43:39
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 43:40
Doctor it you know, I don't have, you know, a specific you know, I mean, I guess I have school psychology and I have all this background, but but it just still feels like, who am I? You know, So. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 43:49
It's very surprising. 

Jessica Hackmann 43:50
Rising. And I'm very, very grateful because it's something I love. You know, it's. 

Rich Bennett 43:53
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 43:54
It's a cool thing to do every day. 

Rich Bennett 43:58
What do you think he would it be? What do you think you'd be doing now if your husband didn't give you that idea? 

Jessica Hackmann 44:04
Mhm. I don't. I think I'd still be a school psychologist. 

Rich Bennett 44:06
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 44:07
Do we need the. 

Rich Bennett 44:07
We need the. 

Jessica Hackmann 44:09
I don't think I was. I was headed in a place of high achievement. 

Rich Bennett 44:13
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 44:14
Just be every year, probably getting to be more and more of a job. Passionate about. 

Rich Bennett 44:20
It's kind of funny. He saw your vision for you. 

Jessica Hackmann 44:24
No, don't tell him that. You just ruined 

Guy. 

Rich Bennett 44:30
I got to give you some credit a little bit. I mean, you know, hey, my wife doesn't even listen to my podcast. You know, we got maybe that may be a good thing, but she does support me in what I'm doing because I'll never forget when when I left radio and told her what I wanted to do at first she thought I was crazy. I said, Do you think it'll work? I said, I believe so. Did it work right away? Was this I wasn't able to do it in three years, like you. But actually, no. I think it was a three year mark is when I finally started. And that's what they say about when you start a business, it's usually three years. 

Jessica Hackmann 45:09
Yes. So, I mean, so he is he's very supportive and 

Rich Bennett 45:11
Right? 

Jessica Hackmann 45:12
it's. 

Rich Bennett 45:13
Of course he is. He gave you the idea. What's his name? John Mayer. Good job, John. If you have any more visions for Leonard. 

Jessica Hackmann 45:25
Keep going so I can open a food truck or something. He loves to cook, so he's he's ready to to switch careers. 

Rich Bennett 45:32
Or he and I got a hook up. 

Jessica Hackmann 45:33
So I told you you're. 

Rich Bennett 45:34
Well, we were talking about the bourbon barbecue. Oh, God. We meet my brother and I just did it. Clay's two up in Greencastle, Pennsylvania, learned how to smoke a brisket. 

Does he have a nice girl, at least? 

Jessica Hackmann 45:49
He does. And 

Rich Bennett 45:49
Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 45:50
a really good smoker. So. 

Rich Bennett 45:51
Not. Not one of these electric ones. 

Jessica Hackmann 45:54
I don't I don't know if it's electric. 

Rich Bennett 45:55
Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 45:56
I don't know. It's it's tall. It's 

Rich Bennett 45:58
Oh, no. He just makes the food and it's good, so I don't like 

Jessica Hackmann 46:03
get 

Rich Bennett 46:03
it. 

Jessica Hackmann 46:03
when it's to smoke. 

Rich Bennett 46:04
I So where do you. I would say five years, but I know in five years it's going to be bigger than what it is now. But in ten years time, how would you like to see the business? Where would you like to see it? 

Jessica Hackmann 46:15
So, I mean, ideally, I would like to bring on some support. 

Rich Bennett 46:19
You're going to need it because. 

Jessica Hackmann 46:21
Because I can't give you know, kids need evenings and. 

Rich Bennett 46:23
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 46:23
So that is one of the things that is struck that I struggle with. I mean, you know, I've got six years until I guess I'm technically an empty nester or should be an empty nester. And so then I'm sure I'll be looking for more things in the evenings. But right now, my kids keep me busy. 

Rich Bennett 46:35
Yeah. 

Jessica Hackmann 46:36
And so I would like to, you know, to have some partners. 

Rich Bennett 46:41
Mm hmm. 

Jessica Hackmann 46:41
Kind of support this. The the end goal, you know, would be that this continues to do well. And I love like the podcast idea I know. 

Rich Bennett 46:53
Oh, I got. I got an idea for you when we're done. 

Jessica Hackmann 46:55
Well, yeah. I mean, I don't even want to say mine out loud, but I. Have some. I like neurodivergent voices. You know where? Because I feel like I can I. I enjoy sharing my story with with my clients. And I would love my clients to have the on the obviously anonymity to come on and say this is what. 

Rich Bennett 47:14
What I did. This 

Jessica Hackmann 47:14
This is 

Rich Bennett 47:15
is 

Jessica Hackmann 47:15
what 

Rich Bennett 47:15
what I 

Jessica Hackmann 47:15
I changed 

Rich Bennett 47:15
changed. 

Jessica Hackmann 47:15
and 

Rich Bennett 47:16
And 

Jessica Hackmann 47:16
this 

Rich Bennett 47:16
this 

Jessica Hackmann 47:16
is 

Rich Bennett 47:16
is 

Jessica Hackmann 47:16
where 

Rich Bennett 47:16
where. 

Jessica Hackmann 47:16
I am today. 

Rich Bennett 47:17
So we're speaking telepathically. Not telepathic. Yeah, that's it. 

Jessica Hackmann 47:21
So to kind of give that platform 

Rich Bennett 47:22
Uh huh. 

Jessica Hackmann 47:23
Their story from all walks of life, you know, from a parent to the teacher to the, you know, the retiree. So that that is something I would love to do. And I also kind of want to get into to blogs or. 

Rich Bennett 47:35
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 47:36
Written form. 

Rich Bennett 47:38
So it says since this is heard in over 100 countries, if somebody were, they're out of state at a country. Has, because I know you can't take them on as clients, but if they want some. 

Jessica Hackmann 47:59
So that's the other thing. 

Rich Bennett 48:00
Different coaching I. 

Jessica Hackmann 48:01
I it's. I can do it anywhere. 

Rich Bennett 48:03
Oh, I thought you didn't do virtual strictly. 

Jessica Hackmann 48:06
Oh, yeah. No, I mean, 

Rich Bennett 48:07
Oh, 

Jessica Hackmann 48:07
I. 

Rich Bennett 48:08
so you can't take people out of the country. 

Jessica Hackmann 48:10
Moreover, I've had people in other states that I've never met in person. 

Rich Bennett 48:13
Oh, okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 48:14
I just prefer in person. But. 

Rich Bennett 48:16
Well, in that case, how do they get in touch with you? What's the website law? 

Jessica Hackmann 48:21
W w w dat brave b r v e connections with an s coaching dot com. 

Rich Bennett 48:29
Brave Connections Coaching Dotcom. 

Jessica Hackmann 48:32
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 48:32
Okay. All over social media and all, too. 

Jessica Hackmann 48:35
Yes, 

Rich Bennett 48:36
Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 48:36
I. 

Rich Bennett 48:37
So with 

because I mean, I'm still baffled in three years time how well you're doing 

marketing wise. What were you doing? 

Jessica Hackmann 48:48
I have social media. 

Rich Bennett 48:49
Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 48:50
We actually are having a my practice that I lease a space with. We're doing a networking event with some local like neuropsychologist therapists. 

Rich Bennett 48:58
Oh, wow. Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 48:59
And such. Just to kind of get, you know, our name and. 

Rich Bennett 49:03
Mm hmm. 

Jessica Hackmann 49:05
But then also, you know, I'm part of the Bel Air Bel Air business. 

Rich Bennett 49:09
Business deals, right? 

Jessica Hackmann 49:11
I'm doing this kind of podcast. So a lot of it has grown just through word of mouth. 

Rich Bennett 49:15
Okay. 

Jessica Hackmann 49:16
Today profile, you know, so I've had a lot of clients find me through there. So. 

Rich Bennett 49:22
Nice. So before we wrap this up, is there anything you would like to add? 

Jessica Hackmann 49:27
No, I mean, this is thank you so much for this 

Rich Bennett 49:31
Oh, my pleasure. 

Jessica Hackmann 49:32
and. 

Rich Bennett 49:33
Oh, this is just. This is just the beginning. This is just the beginning. Because I got some ideas for you to where you're going to be like, Rich. Remember when you said in ten years time? Yeah, it's four. So I just love seeing. I love helping people grow their business. 

Jessica Hackmann 49:49
Thank you. 

Rich Bennett 49:50
And see. 

Jessica Hackmann 49:50
And if there's I mean, if there's any questions, you know, I do offer free consultations. 

Rich Bennett 49:55
So we. 

Jessica Hackmann 49:55
Go to the website. You're able to. That calendar I spoke of, you're able to find that calendar and select a time. And then, you know, we can have that phone conversation and decide you know what make. 

Rich Bennett 50:06
Right. 

Jessica Hackmann 50:07
So. 

Rich Bennett 50:08
That calendar is so. 

Jessica Hackmann 50:10
It's nice. 

Rich Bennett 50:10
Oh, it's a blessing. 

Jessica Hackmann 50:12
nice. 

Rich Bennett 50:12
I started using mine with because when it came to book people for the show, I was doing it manually and there, you know, it was taking me a week, two weeks to get back to somebody. 

Jessica Hackmann 50:23
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 50:24
Now when I can just send them the link, they can look at see what's available. 

Jessica Hackmann 50:28
right. 

Rich Bennett 50:28
Right. But for some, sometimes it's weird. I'll try to block out the date and things. Now. I like that cooking class. I was mentioning some. I had scheduled a recording that day. I was like, Wait, man, I like that date out there shouldn't. And I had to. I mean, she was fine. So. So who? Okay, good. So, Jessica, I want to thank you so much to continue success. And once again, just tell everybody how they can get in touch with you. 

Jessica Hackmann 50:58
W w w dot Reeve connections Coaching income.