Beyond the Five Love Languages: Paul Zolman's Unique Approach to Understanding Love

Rich Bennett 0:00
My guest, Paul Solman, is the international bestselling author of The Role of Love has a Life story deeply rooted in his quest to understand true love. Born into a challenging environment of abuse, Paul sought to redefine love beyond his early misconceptions. His transformative journey led him to develop a unique method compressed in a game that simplifies the principles of the five love languages. This method emphasizes given love to truly understand and receive it. So join me as we explore Paul's writings and his profound teachings on the essence of love. And we were talking right before he got started. He and I have something very in common, which you're going to find out. So, Paul, how are you doing? 

Paul Zolman 0:45
I'm doing well, Rich. Thanks for letting me be on your podcast. What a pleasure. 

Rich Bennett 0:50
Oh, my pleasure. And thank you for, you know, read you back out to me because those of you listening, I kind of messed up. Paul was supposed to come all last week, and I got my time's criss crossed and I was like, How in the hell did I miss this? It just it floored me. So thank you for, you know, coming back on, because I know you've been busy. So with the role of love, I just want to dive right into it, if you don't mind. Share your story with everybody. Sure. How this came about. 

Paul Zolman 1:27
So I want to just kind of go a little farther back than than when I was born. I want to go back to my grandfather because I think some of your audience as well probably has generational things that were passed on, not genetic rich, not something in the blood, but something that my parents were taught and their parents were taught them and their parents taught them is just passed down. And so some of those traditions like that aren't the best traditions at all. But some of that some of that's all about mental health as well. So so my my grandfather had nine children, lived in Indiana, the United States. And shortly after that, no child was born. His wife passed away absolutely distraught. You know that. And many, many people probably know that when you're distraught like that, just pause. Don't make any major life decisions. He didn't do that. He decided he's going to sell the farm and he's going to sell all the equipment. And when people came to the auction there, he said, And would you like this child? And why? Like this child? Yeah. And would you like this child? He gave all the children away except one took that one child. Benjamin, with him to Montana, found a schoolteacher that had never been married, married her and had ten more children. 

Rich Bennett 2:49
One. 

Paul Zolman 2:50
Of which my father was number six. And so my father was born in 1922 when he was ten years old. This grandfather of mine passed away. So his father passed away. Wow. So now you've got 19 children that are abandoned and ten, ten years plus 1922 put you right in the middle of the Great Depression in 1932. You can imagine not only do they have the abandonment issues, but now they've got economic issues. 

Rich Bennett 3:22
Right? 

Paul Zolman 3:23
If they didn't have it before, they've got it now. Definitely have it now. Even though my grandmother was a schoolteacher, she was very kind. I loved visiting my grandmother when I was younger. But even even notwithstanding all that, my father had a really rough time. He was able to go to school a few more years after his father passed away. Graduated from eighth grade. And that's all he did. That's all he ever did. So with. 

Rich Bennett 3:50
Eighth grade. 

Paul Zolman 3:51
Just eighth grade. 

Rich Bennett 3:53
Wow. 

Paul Zolman 3:54
So with that eighth grade education, not many jobs that will have you. But he became a truck driver. So 

really a truck driver. That's what it became. Yeah. So his gone during the week. He came home on Fridays and on Friday. One one thing I really love about my father is every single Friday, I don't ever remember him missing having a date with my mother. Oh, wow. Just a beautiful example of consistently dated. Now, he was a very creative about the day. It was always the Maverick bar, always over alcohol. 

Rich Bennett 4:33
But it was a date. 

Paul Zolman 4:35
But it was the day. So you can imagine that when a couple gets back together, if they've been apart for a while. So how would how do we go how do we go and have this little exchange? So I'm number ten of 11 children. My father kind of toned it down from his father, from 19 children down to only 11. 

Rich Bennett 4:55
And 

a got. 

Paul Zolman 4:59
So. So here I am. I'm number ten. I can imagine I never was there, but I can imagine that my mother starts at the very top, the oldest, and starts going down. And I can see my father getting annoyed, getting annoyed again, and I get annoyed until he's ready to flash. I'm the guy he flashes on. So I'm at my position and the family is a thorn between two roses. There's only two girls. I'm right in between. So I have an older sister and a younger sister. All the rest are boys. And so. So it's boys will be boys and they do annoying things. And that's that. Dads get upset about that. And so by the time all the annoyances are done, he's ready to blow. I could not look forward to any weekend. I still have a hard time sometimes with the weekend, just because it's just from being raised in that type of environment. It was either the belt or a severe spanking that I got. Yeah, and I remember one severe spanking I got. I was black and blue for three weeks after. 

Rich Bennett 6:03
Oh, my God. 

Paul Zolman 6:05
It was that was that bad? Yeah, that type of situation. That's what I grew up in. So at age 17, I decided, Rich, I'm going to escape from this. I moved, moved out, moved in with my brother and six months after I did that, so I spent my senior year of high school on the road. Six months after he was transferred to California. Now, I was raised in Montana as well, but right. Just kind of a funny anecdote. When I'm 17 and California and I'm dating a girl and I tell her I'm from Montana. She says, Oh, that's great. I have horses. And I'd never ridden a horse in my life, but I'm. 

Rich Bennett 6:43
Serious. 

Paul Zolman 6:44
So she's thinking, I'm really going to be really good at this. I didn't tell her anything then this close up. And so I've seen all those John Wayne movies. So I grabbed the saddle horn. I kicked my leg up over the horse all the way to the other side, and I'm out. But on the other side, we had a great. 

Rich Bennett 7:02
Oh, God. 

Paul Zolman 7:04
A great laugh about that. 

But oh, my my brother also had this same issue, the same thing that would've been passed down generation to generation that we'd do this stacking of these annoyances and that we'd have this flash. You never know when the flash was going to happen, and hopefully it didn't happen in public, but sometimes it did, and sometimes the social awkwardness that you see somebody get mad in public. You said, Wow, I fear for those people around that person right now. 

Rich Bennett 7:36
Right. 

Paul Zolman 7:37
And you just don't know what's going to happen, especially in this day and age. You can have it happen when people get mad in public. So it happened in public. It happened at home. And it was just became kind of a watch out for type of person. And so I realized I had that same that same anger, that same pattern of anger that my father had, possibly his father, possibly generations back. I don't know how far it went back right. So I've got this residual anger and I'm blaming my father all the way up till about age 35 for wow. Or this anger for poor social awkwardness, for relationships that don't work out. I thought I was there's holes in my life is what I was in, Rich. And I'm blaming him for these holes, for not filling these holes, for not not making the amends. I thought it was his fault. And I realized that if I got somebody to blame, I don't have to change. I don't have to do a damn thing. I don't have to do anything to become a different person. Right? It's their fault. And when I realized that, I thought, I'm 35 years old. My father by that time has been dead seven years. I'm blaming the guy. I'm not even around. And I realized and I thought, Oh, I think it's now the time to take some responsibility. It took me that long. 35, 35. Wow. Taking responsibility that time, it was almost too late for my marriage. And I think that that anger just was one of the contributing of the effects of the demise of my first marriage. 

Rich Bennett 9:23
Right. 

Paul Zolman 9:24
And I toned it down to Rich. I only had eight kids. 

Rich Bennett 9:27
So I was going to ask you about that. 

Paul Zolman 9:31
So my children only have three. So we're we're we're getting at the generational thing, stopping I mean, trying to stop it right here. So we're getting there. So anyway, I'm I'm I'm single after the divorce, 23 and a half years of marriage, I've got the kids. Wow. So there's five kids left at home when the the wife has has the children on her weekend and I'm free. What I'm deciding to do in this midlife crisis is do some destination dating. I decide what destination date is. I find someone online. They're in a different city. I'm in a different city. We choose a city. We meet in the city. We have a date. We go back home. 

Rich Bennett 10:17
Okay. 

Paul Zolman 10:18
That was the destination dated. So I was living in Charleston, South Carolina at the time. I went to Daytona Beach, went to Jacksonville, Columbia, South Carolina. Charlotte, North Carolina. Went to New York City of NASCAR. Left Nashville. Yeah, Manhattan. It was great. And went to I was first Broadway show I ever saw was in this destination Dating. That was it was really fun and that's pretty interesting. So Kansas City, Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Snowflake, Arizona, Cabo San Lucas, all these places I went for destination. 

Rich Bennett 10:52
Wow. 

Paul Zolman 10:53
That kind of matches those lyrics of the song, Rich said, Looking for love in all the wrong places. Right Then find us. They had a great time, but I was done. 

Rich Bennett 11:04
You're enjoying life for the moment. 

Paul Zolman 11:06
I was for the moment and then decided to relocate with the children to to Phoenix, Arizona. Then my ex-wife decided she wanted primary custody of the last three children were in the home, and she was going to go live with her parents over in California. 

Rich Bennett 11:22
So if you know, if you don't mind me asking, because this is the part that baffles me, you So you had full custody of or primary custody of all five of your children. 

Paul Zolman 11:33
The five that were left in the home. 

Rich Bennett 11:35
How in the world did that happen? Because usually it's the other way around. 

Paul Zolman 11:40
She didn't want that at the beginning. She absolutely didn't want she had a she had a different lifestyle in and of mind at the time. So. Okay. So that's that's why I had the children. But then after three and a half years of doing that, maybe in primary custodian, she decided she wanted the children back. There were three left in the home at the time and I thought a lot about it and she was actually going from South Carolina to live with her parents in California. And so I relinquished custody because I wanted the children to get to know their grandparents. 

Rich Bennett 12:14
Right. 

Paul Zolman 12:15
And thankfully so shortly after that, just two months after relinquishing the custody, her father passed away. So the children really kind of got to know him. He had no idea he had a tumor and they went that fast within eight weeks of of them moving in with the parents. 

Rich Bennett 12:34
So were the children at this time. 

Paul Zolman 12:36
So I think the youngest was 11, 

11, 13 or 14 and then 15. 

Rich Bennett 12:44
Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I'm sorry. I'm just I think that because that's got to be hard on the kids, too. 

Paul Zolman 12:53
Oh, yeah. 

Rich Bennett 12:54
Yeah. They just made your grandfathered in, but at least they did. They were able to spend time with him. 

Paul Zolman 13:00
Well, they knew him, but they didn't know him as well as, as well as living with him as a different situation. So they really got to know him. And they, you know, they treasured those memories and treasure those days. And I thought they would they still still do to this day. So anyway, I'm footloose, fancy, free, carefree now I'm I'm just kind of stuck. I had moved to Phoenix, so I'm kind of stuck there and just feeling a little bit down and out and feeling that loss of the of the children my sister gives me. I called my older sister and you can imagine my position in the family. I'm ten of 11. And so this was in the age rich and I'm dated myself. But I was the remote control that the older siblings would tell me, go up to the TV, turn the knob and change the channel. I was that remote control. So yeah, that was that was the day and age. I did what my older brothers and sisters said for me to do. So my sister has this neighbor that she wants to introduce to me now and she's 7 hours away. I said, I don't think so. I've been doing this destination. I don't want to do it again. She says, Oh, come on. I said, All right. So I thought, Well, I'll just make a just a flimsy effort and I'll start emailing this woman. And so I started email, but she wrote back and it was just delightful. She had a great sense of humor, stirs a spark, a little interest. And then I thought, Yeah, this is kind of interested. So eventually we met and eventually I moved up to where my sister was up and we started getting a little serious. One more serious. It's time for Big Brother approval. You got to have all that. So. Right. Picking this woman up to my big brother's house. Well, first thing we go in the house, my sister in law Poser sign says the only emotion that the family learned growing up was anger. At first I did notice that. Oh, then it made me mad. 

I thought, Oh, you that she absolutely nailed it. And I kind of proved the point. 

Rich Bennett 15:15
Yeah. 

Paul Zolman 15:16
At that point in time, which I thought if that's the perception that outside might have of the Zelman family, I've got an opportunity right here now to change that perception. So I started reading the color code and I start reading the five love languages. I liked the five love languages. Dr. Gary Chapman is irreverent and he he said that these love languages reconcile to the life of Jesus Christ. And I thought, you know, I'm a Christian. I wanted to do that. And I thought that these are great principles, right? I didn't get the application from Duck. I didn't understand. You mean I'm suppose rich if I guess what love languages are and if I cater to that? You're calling that love. You know, I came from a kind of a dysfunctional background myself, but. And I know that wasn't love, but that doesn't sound like love either. That's more of a manipulation or more of a obligation and more of a duty type type thing that wasn't going to work for me. And I'm a bad guesser. I'm just not good at guessing what what people are. So that didn't work. So the next thing that Dr. Chapman has in his book is that, well, if I take the survey, then I can find out what my love language is. What the heck do I do with that? What do I do? Advertise, Rich. Hello? Yeah, I'm gifts. What do you have for me today? And then just so awkward. That did not work for me either. So I thought when I was a child that games, even as dysfunctional as our family was, the games brought us together and we'd still have the smack talk. We still have all those angry and angry humor and everything that goes with the anger. All but but the games brought us together as a family. I thought, Well, what if I could take these five love languages, make it a game? So I contacted Dr. Chapman, said, Are you licensing those little icons, those little pictures that you have for the love languages? His attorney wrote me back and said, No, we're not doing that at this time. So I contacted an attorney here. My my city is an intellectual property attorney. Copyright right. He said the theory, like the love language theory, is not copyrightable. Application is. 

Rich Bennett 17:35
Oh. 

Paul Zolman 17:36
How you practice. It is copyrightable. So. So I thought, well, I'll just make my own icons. So that's what I did. I made my own icons and I put it on a dice. That's how I arrived with the dice. So I'm showing gifts right now. Touch the words time and service. Five love languages, six sides on the dice. The six sizes surprised me. Well, it could be called anything else. I live 2 hours north of Las Vegas. Some people in this area call it dealer's choice. 

Rich Bennett 18:09
So 

I kind of like that. 

Paul Zolman 18:15
So whatever it is. So there's just two instructions. Read, roll the dice every day. That's all of language you practice giving away all day that day. All day. It's not like I did the dishes. Whoo hoo! I'm done. It's not. 

Rich Bennett 18:30
Fun. Yeah. 

Paul Zolman 18:31
It's not an event anymore. It's all day. So I had to do that. Rich and Dr. Chapman suggests that you do it to your significant other that you find with their love language and then send that their way. I couldn't do that. I was single. I didn't have anybody. So I decided, Well, here goes, everybody. Everybody is going to get love today. And so everybody I come in contact with, I'm watching for the opportunity to love in that genre. In that way, whatever I role that day and what I'm watching for is for people to light up when they light up, When they light up, I think I've discovered what their primary love language is or one of their primary love languages is. And the whole theory behind what Dr. Chapman has is he's said everybody has a primary love language, something that they recognize as love more than one another thing. So it could be gifts, it could be the words, it could be a service, it could be any one of those five love languages that people recognize. And I'm watching for them to light up, which no longer do. I have to pause the relationship and say, Excuse me, could you take the service or know how to love you? 

Rich Bennett 19:43
Yeah. 

Paul Zolman 19:44
But don't have to do that anymore. Just use your observation skills and from that be able to detect what they're primary love languages over a 30 day period. What happened to me, which is quite remarkable. I stopped focusing on what's wrong with people too, and I realized that when I focus on what's wrong with people and became annoyed at what they were doing, I also became annoyed at other people and other people until it produced that flash. So it wasn't stacking anymore, wasn't looking at what's wrong with people. The mindset changed from from that to what's right with people, what can I love about them? And it became I'm looking for the good of people instead of for their faults or weaknesses. It's a huge paradigm shift for me now. I'm no longer annoyed and I don't have those flashes anymore because I'm looking at what's right with people. And so it's just it became over a 30 day period, I became very familiar with all the love languages and I became what I like to call a love language linguist. So sexy title Rich. I know you want it. Yeah, but 

put it on your resumé. Everybody wants that title, so just think about that. Rich. You got it on your resume. You're going to that employer. The employer is going to say, What the heck is a linguist? You're going to say, I love people. They want their customers loved and they want a loving environment rather than a hostile environment within the workplace. Your resume will rise to the top. So I just encourage people, if they're looking for work, this is that might be a good thing to do to improve yourself just a little bit too, because it does become that love language linguist. The other thing that happens after doing this is that by giving it away and knowing all the love languages, so much easier to see it when it's coming your way. Most people have that myopic approach that they can only see what they like when they see their primary love language. Now you've given yourself this peripheral vision. You say, Oh, that's not my primary love language, but I can see they're loving on me and they can respond appropriately. 

Rich Bennett 21:55
I love it. I mean, that's one of the it's something that's always baffled me is the word love. Why so many people are afraid of saying it. I have no problem. Ever since I read the book The Secret, it just like I told you before, we start recording, that helped me a lot every day. You know, if I'm talking to whether it's a friend of mine, whether it's talking to my brother, my sister, always into conversation. She with a lot of you. But one of the other things I love to do and your book in the diary helps out a lot too, is just spreading the message, spreading love. If you 

like. You were all for it. Was it service? Mhm. So explain everybody. If you roll the dice and it comes up on service, what would you do for that? 

Paul Zolman 22:52
So what you're doing on that day is you're volunteering, you can volunteer service organizations, you can volunteer, wash your wife's car or anybody's car, wash your neighbor's car. You know, there's running jokes in every neighborhood I've ever been in. You see somebody washing their car outside. So I got another one over here. You can wash and you just want them to wash your car. Just do it one day. Just see what happens and just wash up. Go knock on the door, say, okay, today's the day I'm ready to wash your car. That's the type of service I'm talking about, or vacuuming the floor or put the dishes away or help with the laundry or do a number of things you can. That's your offering service that. 

Rich Bennett 23:35
Mm hmm. So what would you say to the people that would say, well, that's not really showing love, which to me it is. But I mean, what would you say to those people? 

Paul Zolman 23:45
I would say that that's not their primary love language. I would say that that that they don't know how to love in that way, that they they receive or they or they send love in a different way. And so service would not be one of their love languages that they're that they're familiar with or they I mean, Dr. Chapman identifies it as one of the things Jesus did. He said he'd served people everywhere he went. And so so just using that as a point of reference, sending service out, doing things for people is is absolutely love. 

Rich Bennett 24:20
Now, I believe this, but do you believe that everybody or people can have all five love languages? 

Paul Zolman 24:28
Absolutely. No, There's there's no question that people can recognize love, and especially after you learn all five love languages and to send it out, you can recognize it. You you begin to love every every way people are loving on you. And the whole idea is you're improving your your eyesight by using the five love languages, which I read through the book, the five love languages. I read through it four or five times. My book did not come through me. What I what I mean by that is that even after I read the book four or five times, if somebody offered me $1,000,000 to name five love languages, I wouldn't be able to do it. I read through it, but it didn't. It didn't stick. They didn't write with me by doing. And that's how a lot of adults learn. Now. By doing then, it'll stick. It'll stay with you. You'll know what what it looks like, what each love language looks like to give it away and to see it when it comes your way. 

Rich Bennett 25:31
It's just like going the job training. 

Paul Zolman 25:33
That is. It's absolutely every day. Every day. And it's it's not really work because it's pleasurable what you're trying to do. Yeah, you're trying to make somebody have a happy day when you see them light up. You've made their day when you've made somebody's day. They're also going to spread that around to their circles of influence, make their day. Contrast that with anger. You send it out, you're going to ruin somebody's day. Possibly that anger is going to come back to you ten times worse. And they're going to have and they're going to spread it to all their friends and acquaintances. Misery really loves company. Don't want to do that. 

Rich Bennett 26:10
It's something that's always baffled me and I've said this I don't know how many times on the show, but why do you think negative activity breeds negativity more than positivity brings breeds positivity? 

Paul Zolman 26:25
I think that yeah, that's a that's a very good question. That's that is a baffling question. Why does it? Because I think people get hurt and people get their feelings hurt. They get they get become offended and then their blood level rises. And it just seems like when their blood level rises, they've got more energy to throw it, right? Yeah. And I like to compare it, rich, to a magnifying glass that whatever you magnify or whatever you focus on, if you're focusing on the faults of others, why are you doing that? You want them to grow Is that really what you want? I don't think so. Yeah. Well, focus on the good parts and magnify that, make that grow. And I think that's especially good for parents that are listening right now. I and I made this mistake also as a parent myself that that I would focus on what they did wrong instead of focus on what they did right. Kind of ignore that behavior. You can for a specific amount of time or rather than ignore it, you can say, how about try it this way or how about right, but maybe you have any suggestions of what we might do to make it a little bit better because they really children really want to do some things better. They want to be a little bit more proficient at what they're doing. You know, they don't want to be, you know, incompetent. They don't want to be that. 

Rich Bennett 27:49
Yeah. Speaking of children, and if it's not there yet, I think it should be. Is this in school systems or any school systems? Because I think this is something that should definitely be taught, I would say from pre-K on up. 

Paul Zolman 28:04
Yeah, that's a very good question, Rich. And the answer to the question is yes and mostly no. But okay, we're being tested right now as we speak. So I've got oh, so I've got a private school that has taken it on. And what they do is they roll the dice every morning and then the teacher will say, class for watching for this type of opportunity to love today, this type of behavior would be connected to it. So it takes all of 30 seconds, maybe 60 seconds at the very most 2 seconds to roll the dice and 30 seconds for the explanation. So that's at the beginning of the day. At the end of the day, what what they're doing is that the classes recorded, what they rolled, what opportunities they saw to love. In that way. They're doing this individually, right? And then what they did about those opportunities. So what we're trying to do, Rich, remember, it took me to age 35 to realize that I'm responsible for my own actions. That's all. That's a long time. I think we can really shorten that and we're really testing it in the K through six right now at K K through six because they're in the class at the beginning of the same class, normally same class. At the end of the day, they're not to the point where they're changing classes and moving all around. They're just, they're, they're in the same class the whole time. So they have an opportunity to, to not only start the day with the role of love at night and then end the day reported. And I've talked to several teachers about those rich and what's happened, what happens at the end of the day is that those last 10 to 15 minutes of the really non-productive time, the kids are antsy. They've been there all day. They know the bell is going to ring. They don't want to get in trouble. So they have to stay after everything's there, but it's just not productive time. Take that time that's not productive. Let's make it a little bit more productive and on a pass fail or a done not done type right type situation, just a little check mark whether it was done or not, provide them this time for journal writing and you know, for for the younger two children, maybe they can draw a picture or maybe they can do something different about of recording what they did for that day. But for the private school that have this with, you know, locally, I've got a local franchisee of Yogurt land that if these kids will will do it for 15 days and the month is given them five ounces of yogurt for free. If they're. 

Rich Bennett 30:37
Nice. 

Paul Zolman 30:38
Enough, they'll do it for 25 days. They're going to get ten ounces of yogurt for free. So the 25 day thing is right in the middle of the between 21 to 28 days is where a habit is developed. If we can get these children into a habit of watching for opportunities to love, watching for what's right about Johnny, watching for what's right about Susie, watching for what's right about anybody, And instead of what's wrong about them, get them in that lane because what I've found through my through my own own journey here, which is that I have absolutely no control over what someone else is doing, right. No control over their choices. So why would I even get annoyed at what they're choosing to do? It's not. It's out of my lane. Stay in your lane. Choose who you're going to be. You're going to be that person that sends love out all day long, and then you're going to watch for when it comes back. I can't build love to come my way. I if I do, then then. And I think Dr. Chapman created this little little pocket there that if I tell you what my love language is and you tell me what year that we can, we're going to have that nice communication. 

Rich Bennett 31:52
Yes. 

Paul Zolman 31:53
Several times. It'll come up to the point that, Well, I told you what my love language is. Hong Cam, you're not doing it. And you get that little whiny voice, that little pity party. You can't even go there. You don't want to go there, right? Choose what you're going to do and send it out. If it comes back, you're believing that it will come back. You're trusting that I'll come back because a lot of the harvest, because of the Law of attraction, because of karma, whatever you want to call it, you're trusting that that loves coming back. 

Rich Bennett 32:24
So one of the things that I believe and correct me if I'm wrong, Paul, but I think this especially putting this in the school systems, even in the workplace, is something that has been on the rise. I don't want to say just in the United States or the world, especially since COVID 

is your, you know, problems with mental illness, anxiety, depression, all that's been on the rise. I think something like this is very new thinking. I know something like this would help bring that down. 

Paul Zolman 32:59
Oh, absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 33:00
And I think not just for the school systems. Definitely parents, you know, parents at home should have this because if the schools aren't teaching it, you can't it before your kid goes off to school heaven or the die, you know, in the world. And actually have you talk to any companies to put this in their workplace? 

Paul Zolman 33:19
I have talked to some companies. In fact, locally, there's a company that bought several die and they. 

Rich Bennett 33:24
Okay. 

Paul Zolman 33:25
Each one of their employees rolls that every day. I don't know exactly the results of that, but here they haven't come back with any complaints. And so no, no news in that case is good news, I suppose. 

Rich Bennett 33:37
Right. Because I mean, and the other thing is, too, I could see this. 

They we talk about recovery a lot all the time where as far as you know, when it comes to addiction, we're number one in that category in podcast. But even in recovery homes, I can see something like this being a big influence and and help and, you know, all the people there, your service organizations like Lions Clubs, that's another thing. I just think something like this 

I 

personally it needs to be everywhere. I mean, that's that's why it needs to be everywhere. I think everybody should be doing it. And, you know, we have to spread the love more and more. And if you look at something like this, 

it'll definitely help you. 

I, I don't know if you do this or not. And if you do, I think you ought to look into it. 

Can 

businesses I don't know. Sponsors are right term. I'll use the word sponsor. Sponsor your books. In other words, 

buy several of the die and the books and the bundles, whatever, and send them whether it be to daycares, businesses, schools or something like that. 

Paul Zolman 35:09
Absolutely. You know, I was just talking with a friend less than two days ago about that very thing that I've got the role of love, dawg. Domain name already, already set aside. I'm nice I'm I'm and that would be corporate. They make a corporate donation to that organization and then they will send it to the school systems. It will send it to daycare. They'll get it for free. So that's the whole idea because the school systems really can't can't afford anything more. We're trying to pay the teachers more so they don't really can't afford more products, more more curriculum type things like that. So we would offer it to the school systems for free, but we'd have a corporate sponsor of that obviously would would send out who who sponsored that. Right. We can do that as well. But yeah exactly that that whole idea Rich I think that this is really that would be a fast way to get it out to as many schools as many people. 

Rich Bennett 36:11
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And and I think another place this would help 

without a doubt would definitely be in I don't know how you go about approaching them, not just the VA but maybe veteran organizations because you've got a lot of guys that are, you know, that have gotten out there, the mental health is not the best, actually. Have you talked to any mental health professionals? 

Paul Zolman 36:41
Absolutely. But so within the book, at the very first the very first recommendation is from a mental health professional. And it was. 

Rich Bennett 36:50
Okay. 

Paul Zolman 36:51
It was March and last year that I was talking to this gentleman, I had the die. That's all I had at the time. I got the copyright on the die in 2017, but hadn't written the book when I talked to him. He says you actually did a manual to go with us. You need you need a more of an updated version of the love languages from Dr. Chapman first printed the book in 1992. So really is 30 years old. And then it was 2022 when he was saying this 30 years old that I needed to do that is a he wrote the first recommendation within the book. And a lot of mental health professionals are really seeing the difference. It's a different tact. It's a different way of approaching this, that this this is something that actually between mental health appointments, something that's actionable, something that every patient can do to keep on track, to keep the focus on something different. What I needed in my life, which was I needed a replacement behavior. I had that anger, that stacking of anger, right. That would make me flush. I needed a replacement behavior. And what my first words were was, I don't want to be angry. And it's kind of a negative, negative, negative there. And that only works in math. You multiply to negative, you get a positive number, doesn't work in relationships that two negatives will not make a positive. And it wasn't working for me, so I had to get past that. I had to have that replacement behavior. The dye worked for me, so within 30 days my whole mindset changed. It was, yeah, it was 180 degrees from anger to love to watching for those opportunities. And of course, I still roll the dice today. You know, today I reverse. 

Rich Bennett 38:40
What you wrote. 

Paul Zolman 38:41
What service? Service service. 

Rich Bennett 38:43
Okay. I knew that. That's why I asked you that question. You know, the thing I could see that, like, my my daily routine is change. My morning routine, because it used to be when I woke up, I always I have a little angel sitting by my bed that I was able to put in our first daughter's hand who we lost. I'm glad that every morning when I wake up, I say a prayer. Always thank God for something. Then I have a little rock that my other daughter gave me. It looks like a heart. I call it my Grateful Rock. Now hold that and say something I'm grateful for. Now. I also wrote Rolled the Die. Wow, That's what I'm doing for the day. Oh, good. But something just struck me. I think now, unfortunately, a lot of families don't have breakfast together in the morning because work, school and all that. A lot of them still have 

a lot. Well, I wouldn't say some of them. I think all of the need to do this is. But have dinner at the table, sit around at the table afterwards, have game night. And I think this could be the perfect game. You know, if you can't roll the dice in the morning, have everybody roll it that night before, you know, after dinner. And this is what you're going to be doing the next day. And then when you come home for dinner that night, right at the end, everybody say what you did roll game for the next day. 

Paul Zolman 40:12
I really like that. Rich. That's a great, great new application tonight. I believe that there's a lot of flexibility that way. And it's just there's no rules. There's just two instructions, right? You practice it every day. With those two rules you can do, you can have so many variations of it. You know, I've tested it with families. I've tested it with a you know, with couples. One couple of the the man knew that his wife didn't like gifts at all. But one day he rolled two gifts. What? She liked words. So what he did was he wrote it, wrote her a very nice love note, put it in a box, made it a gift, and presented it to her. She was, oh, absolutely delighted for that gift of a note and just a very personal note. That way. There's another family that I tested it with that they had five children. The youngest was four years old, a boy. And he had so older, older siblings that were boys and girls. He one day he rolled, he broke physical touch and he's jumping up and down and pumping his arms and saying, yes, physical will touch immediately because it beats up on his brother's. 

So that's what he thought, you know, that's what his brothers were doing to him. You can. 

Rich Bennett 41:30
See. 

Paul Zolman 41:31
That's exactly what he thought. But others tried to suppress all that laughter. And with the suppression of laughter, he says, No, son, this would be appropriate. Physical touch. The high five, the fist bump, right? Oh, dear. Brothers and sisters. And. But it was a teaching moment. And with four and four years old, he already knows just from what his mother has said. He already knows what each symbol on the dial means. And that's kind of the key to it, that when people learn how to read, they learn from pictures. And that's kind of the transition. So very small children can understand this. Very small children can react, and you can have those teaching moments to teach them appropriate ways to love. 

Rich Bennett 42:19
Something. I normally ask when I have an author on, but I, I have a funny feeling I can answer this for you. And if I'm incorrect, let me know. But I was going to ask you who your audience is, but I believe this is for everybody. 

Paul Zolman 42:36
Absolutely it is for everyone. The women actually react more positively than a lot of men. It takes it takes the men. Maybe that it maybe is not. That's true. It just takes them a little bit longer to realize what's going on. But the women actually, they respond immediately. They can see it quickly, very quickly. 

Rich Bennett 42:58
And this is the first book you've ever written, correct? 

Paul Zolman 43:00
It is. I've written some legacy books for other people, more like a ghostwriter. But. 

Rich Bennett 43:07
Oh, okay. 

Paul Zolman 43:08
Other than that, this is my first book. Correct. 

Rich Bennett 43:11
And when did you actually write it? When was it released? 

Paul Zolman 43:14
I released in January this year. 

Rich Bennett 43:16
Wow. How's it going so far? 

Paul Zolman 43:20
It's gone. Well, I'm excited to see how it continues to grow. So it's just a brand new book out there with with the love language theme, with that theory and using it in a little bit different way, I think it'll go well. It's going to continue to be a viable book for a long, long time. 

Rich Bennett 43:40
Oh, I think for a lifetime for everybody's lifetime, actually. I wanted to ask you that. Are you do you know if your kids or anybody else in your family is doing this? 

Paul Zolman 43:49
My wife does not do it. But once she does, Rich, is she? She knows I'm rolling the dice every day. What? Right. What she likes to do is try to guess what. Love language. I'm practicing that. That which is as cute as can be. You know, That's really fun. That's fun for her. It was fun for me. You know, what am I doing today? And it's just it was just kind of fun. 

Rich Bennett 44:14
So in a way, she is doing it. She's just not physically doing it. 

Paul Zolman 44:17
That's right. 

Rich Bennett 44:18
So I, 

I because this is it seems like this is a problem with authors a lot. But as far as marketing goes, besides getting on podcast, what are you doing to market this. 

Paul Zolman 44:34
Mostly social media right now. Okay, it's a self-published. So so first Oh, First was published on Amazon and so on Amazon. I also have an audible and I haven't talked a lot about that, but, but it's a I hired someone, an actor actually to, to read it. He read it a whole lot better than I think. 

Rich Bennett 44:54
Does an excellent job. Yeah I actually listen to it on Audible. Oh does an excellent job. 

Paul Zolman 45:00
Yes Yeah. So, so he did a really, really good job. I love the audible version and people listening to this podcast, maybe they're that style of listener as well. Maybe they'd listen to books while they're driving or anything like that. I think the Audible is a very viable way to to learn the principles that I'm talking about. Learning, right? Was of observation, learn the principles of each one of the love languages and the principle of authenticity. Authenticity. You know, I like to compare it to, you know, the other day I was out walking read and I found a stick and you'll like this stuck on one side of a stick. It's really smooth. Very, very nice. On the other side of the stick, it has some little points on it, little sharp places there. I call this the knotty sides, too. So this is this is a stick like Santa Claus has. It's naughty and nice. 

Rich Bennett 45:56
No pun intended, right? Absolutely Pun intended. 

Paul Zolman 46:01
So so when I from my sister in law, that visit with my sister in law, that I was still on that naughty side of the stick, I realized I had three choices. I could still stay the same, not move. I could then stay in the same looks like this that you're blaming everybody else for the problem. You're not making it open at all because their problem and because it's their problem, you don't have to do a thing. The second choice is I could become more angry or the third choice has become more loving. So that stick actually became a spectrum for me that where were with you have some self-actualization going on. Where are you? Out on the stick. Take for example the word sarcasm. Naughty or nice? I think it's mostly on the naughty side, the sick. So what would be the opposite of that? And I think that that's a very valuable exercise for determining what kind of person that you want to be, what are you doing right now and is it on the naughty stylistic or is it on the nice right to find out what the opposite is and then decide what am going to stay right Where am I become more naughty or become more nice with that thing? Sarcasm, naughty, so to speak. The opposite would be be authentic, be genuine, be true. 

Rich Bennett 47:25
Yeah. I always have to be. I have to be nice. I can't be on the naughty side. That's what. 

Paul Zolman 47:31
I did. 

Rich Bennett 47:32
It was something that hit me when you said because you said the book is self-published, so it's print on demand, right? 

Paul Zolman 47:41
Right. That's absolutely correct. 

Rich Bennett 47:42
Well, what about the DI? 

Paul Zolman 47:44
I, I have those. I have a stockpile of those and I have to order them and have them. So I said, okay. So I sent the artwork to a manufacturer and they and they print. It's actually they're all kind of etched on there. And the factories in Poland, actually it's a dice manufacturer in Poland. And I so I shopped all over the United States, which for for a dice manufacturer the card. 

Rich Bennett 48:12
If I'm. 

Paul Zolman 48:12
On the wall they're several. But the cost for doing it in the U.S. is three times more than Poland, including shipping including the tariffs. 

Rich Bennett 48:25
Yeah, that I don't understand that. And it just 

I don't know that one baffles me. 

Paul Zolman 48:34
So the of the polish are very good. They're very excellent artisans. We know them for their ceramics and that sort of thing. This is not ceramic, but it's very close and more of a resin dice one inch by one edge and a lot of a first I thought it was hand edged the way it's it's raised even for people that are blind they could yeah they could actually feel it It's it's embossed more or less that they could feel what what it is so blind people could roll the dice every day too and then practice love. 

Rich Bennett 49:09
I show men that that does actually feel nice to. 

Wow. Huh. Um, I guess the one the thing with the company out of Poland doing it if if you would have gotten in United States company as much as they are. 

Well, number one, you would have to charge a lot more. And the the the book and the dye is not expensive at all. Why is that? And besides that, you're getting, you know, the dye done in Poland for a lot cheaper. But I think that will give you more Mark you're more revenue too, if you raise your prices. 

Paul Zolman 49:52
So the whole idea is not to get rich about it. 

Rich Bennett 49:56
Okay. 

Paul Zolman 49:57
It's really not that I really, really understand the the nature of the world that we live in. I have I have another job. This is this is really something that I came across. It helped me. It helped me almost overnight. It was like a 30 day throw away transformation for me. And I thought, you know, if it'll do that for me, maybe there are some other people out there just like me, but have maybe different adversity or maybe even the same type of adversity in their life. They want to overcome the anger from that adversity or the post-traumatic stress from that event that happened way back to then. Quit rehearsing. In their mind, that event start building new events, start looking toward loving people instead of looking at anger. Look, instead of looking at the things people are doing wrong, instead of looking what happened to you that makes you a victim? Quit that. Stop looking at that. Start looking at how can I help people have a better day? I can guarantee Rich out there that anybody can find somebody that's lower having maybe maybe they're have lower esteem. Maybe they're having have a they're just low. They're just down, down in the dumps. You can find somebody that's lower than what you are all day long. Find find that person and lift them up. Yeah, you'll be able to extend that hand. Lift them up. When you do that, you're going to feel a whole lot better about yourself and then you're going to do that again. Your kids just keep repeating that. It's not about the cost and I really want to send it out there for basically my costs. There is a little profitability there because I have to have that for other things. But but it's just it's much less than the cost of even one therapy session, a whole lot less. In fact, the bundle is on sale on online for, just $30 less, little less than $30 right now. And you can get the journal, you can get the book, you can get the doc for 30 bucks. 

Rich Bennett 52:07
That's cheap. 

Paul Zolman 52:09
It is. 

Rich Bennett 52:09
It's great. And that's that's a steal, actually. 

Paul Zolman 52:12
And it's right in the range for a wedding gift. So right in the range for. Oh, or a Christmas gift. This is a perfect way to start a marriage to make it a wedding gift. 

Rich Bennett 52:23
That's a great idea. 

Hmm. I wonder if I can get. Oh, we wouldn't be in time. We've got a wedding to go to this weekend. 

Paul Zolman 52:35
Or an anniversary gift. I mean, if you. 

Rich Bennett 52:38
Yeah, there you go. 

Paul Zolman 52:39
If you want to improve the way you love one another, you can do this as an anniversary. Yeah. The whole idea of of this. I always thought that the significant other was just You're not with your significant other all day long. That's right. Dr. Chapman's suggestion that you do it just so significant. Others more like a part time job. I needed that consistency. I wanted that consistency in my life. The consistency of love in all the time. Send it out all the time. It's not I go to work well, I don't have to love here. I'm at work. I don't have to look me. How ridiculous is that? Just do it all the time. Do it at work, do the play, do it at home. 

Rich Bennett 53:19
Who? Who did your website? Because your website is nice. 

Paul Zolman 53:23
I've had the reworked by a couple of different people and that's. It's just a take. The one that's present now is was done from a actually a gentleman from Brazil. 

Rich Bennett 53:36
Really. Yeah it's it's very because I love it because on the front page it tells you what each thing is on the die and it's a beautiful. So I actually tell everybody the website. 

Paul Zolman 53:51
So it's roll of love dot com are solely of love dot com. I did a play on words the parallel is outside of you you not you can't really change the circumstances much outside of you unless you move I guess but really changes you with that. So it's rolly of love dot com. I do own the domain name parallel of love. If you mess up and you type that on. 

Rich Bennett 54:17
I. 

Paul Zolman 54:18
Have it redirected. Hopefully it'll redirect you to the right website. 

Rich Bennett 54:23
So what's next for you? Especially after this just blows up? 

Paul Zolman 54:28
So what's next for me? Obviously I'm going to do the nonprofit. I'm going to pursue that route to get it in the schools and help the corporate sponsors that way. I'm also probably going to pursue some coaching for next year. 

Rich Bennett 54:43
I'm glad you said that. I was going to ask you, have you considered either doing coaching, public speaking or even starting a podcast? 

Paul Zolman 54:52
I love I love being your get rich, huh? 

Rich Bennett 54:56
But I've got a great name for the podcast already. I do love love. 

Paul Zolman 55:00
Oh, yeah. I like it. I like it. 

Rich Bennett 55:02
I think I could. That could be a great podcast for you to do and bring guests on and talk to them and have them tell them like the day before to roll the die. And that's what you cover, talk about and ask them what they did. 

Paul Zolman 55:21
Yeah. Oh, that's good. Oh yeah. 

Rich Bennett 55:24
So now, Paul, Paul's going to be a public speaker, a coach and a podcaster and an author, 

so I'll just throw more stuff on your plate. Ana. 

Paul Zolman 55:36
I like your plans for me. Rich. Now, I'll let you know how that. 

Rich Bennett 55:43
Paul Something I love to ask all my guest and God, this is going to be great because you've been on actually, do you even know how many different shows you've been on? 

Paul Zolman 55:55
It's close to 80 right now. 

Rich Bennett 55:57
That's it? 

Paul Zolman 55:58
That's it? Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 55:59
Are you sure you're sure it's not 800? 

Paul Zolman 56:01
I just started two months ago, Reg. 

Rich Bennett 56:05
I know. And you're blowing it up. That's what gets me. I mean, and I tell all authors this. Get on the podcast circuit, get out there. It's a it's the best marketing. Well, one of the best marketing things you can do. And it's free. 

Paul Zolman 56:19
I mean, I really like it. It's it's a great way to bootstrap. 

Rich Bennett 56:23
Yeah. I mean, God. So something I like to ask, you've been interviewed by 80 different people so far and more today. Is there anything that a host has never asked you that you wish they would have asked you? And if so what would be that question? What would be your answer? 

Paul Zolman 56:48
Well, that. 

Rich Bennett 56:48
Doesn't necessarily have to be about the book either. 

Paul Zolman 56:51
So, Rich, that question is a question no host has ever asked me. So your answer in your question. 

Rich Bennett 57:01
You're not allowed to do that. Paul. That's cheating. I had somebody else try that. 

Paul Zolman 57:05
Okay. Well, I can't think of any other questions I have that way or anything else that way. You did ask about my children. No other host has asked about my children. I do have a son that is just kind of a fun, fun thing, You know, he hates rolling gifts. So one one day and one day I watched him. He wrote gifts. He says, I'm not going to do that today. And they rolled it again. It was gifts again. And I said, Oh, that he wrote it again. It was gifts again. The world that the fourth time it was gifts. He says, Oh, okay, I'm going to do that. And so so it's just interesting that, you know, it's kind of karma, whatever it is. It's this is kind of more of a divine into that that people people have been ask how how it can really be more intentional for your life. And there's a there's a mayor in a local town just close by here that before she was elected mayor, she started rolling the die and that she's mayor, she's rolling that every single day. And so, wow, that city is just just bursting at the seams. It's going so well for her. And I think that a lot of it is because from top down, they're starting with love. And I think that it's the think of that in your family. Think of it in your business. Think of it at the school system. Think of it everywhere, top down, start with love. And it's just going to when you send love out like that, it's just going to drizzle down. And I think that no one's asked that question. How does it what is the best flow for for this love? And I think it's just from top down. That's the way it's going to be. It's going to be disseminate the best way in that way. We really need a lot of the leaders that are out there right now to start loving a little bit more. Just even 1% more per day. And I know you're a loving person, rich, but there's others out there that really need that 1% more per day or they need a lot more than that. I feel like my back with my background that I've been had. Those anger spouts saw so much in my life that I've got so much to catch up on, so much more than to send up so much repairing to do of of those relationships and other relationships that I would just got to be a better person. Double, triple, triple what it was ever before. 

Rich Bennett 59:36
Yes, absolutely. One one thing. I would like to ask you and I completely forgot about this until now. What was it that actually brought you to watch or read or both? The secret by Rhonda Byrne. 

Paul Zolman 59:53
I think that I was just introduced to by a friend and they said, okay, let's add an email. And I thought, you know, and the stone that they had that, that, that, that would help. I actually made some stones myself, had them polished and everything, and I had a laser engraved different values, virtue values. I'm on the rocks and I was calling it virtue rocks at the time. And, you know, there were very expensive to make. And for a tiny rock like that, people weren't buying it, but it was just a project that I did at that time. No. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:30
Well, Paul, I want to thank you so much. And man, everybody, when you get this good roll of love dot com, that's really dot.com purchase. Don't purchase just a book purchase the bundles get the book, get the journal, get the die and definitely leave a full review on whether it be Amazon or good reach. Because once more people see that review it's going to help Paul sell more. And we need to get this not just in the families, we need to get it into the schools, we need to get it into the workplaces everywhere. Daycare is a nonprofit service organizations. It definitely needs to get out there. Sir Paul, I want to thank you for that. And just is there anything you would like to add before we wrap this up? 

Paul Zolman 1:01:21
Just one last thing, Rich, that many, many people go to yoga classes these days. When you get to yoga class at the very end of the class, the teacher's going to put their hands together like this and and about their head and close their eyes. So now Mr. Namaste is a word from the Sanskrit dialect in northern India. But a Hindu Hindu interpretation of that means the God in me sees the God in you or the or the divine in me, sees the divine in you. That's kind of what we're here to accomplish. We're watching for the divine parts of one another. Focus in on that. That's what I've got. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:01
Paul, thanks so much. 

Paul Zolman 1:02:03
Thank you. It's been a pleasure to be with you.