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Navigating the intersection of spirituality and artistry can often be challenging, but Americana and Folk musician Angie Goeke does it with grace. Her story, which she shares with an open heart in our latest episode, is a tapestry of early choir experiences, the nurturing of her talent, and the strength to pursue her passion as a Christian creative in the secular music industry. Angie shares her insights into creating music that combines cathartic lyrics, heartfelt storytelling and passionate instrumentation embodied by Americana, Folk and Bluegrass-infused tunes.
Angie also pulls back the curtain on the world of music production, giving us a peek into the relationships and partnerships that have shaped her journey. From the logistics of crafting an EP to the collaborative magic of studio recordings and the authenticity of live performances, Angie's behind-the-scenes stories underscore the importance of community and adaptability in the creative process. Her reflections on how her faith influences her work extend an invitation to listeners to consider the harmony possible between one's spiritual life and artistic pursuits.
Angie doesn't shy away from discussing the financial and promotional challenges faced by independent artists like herself. Her experience with crowdfunding reveals the communal effort required to bring creative visions to life, while her thoughts on mentorship emphasize the value of guidance and support. Angie's advice to fellow Christian creatives is a heartfelt reminder to view their gifts as acts of worship, encouraging listeners to embrace their creative spark as both a devotion and an intrinsic facet of their identity.
Episode concludes with Angie Goeke giving a touching acoustic performance of her song "Farewell".
angiegoeke.com
00:01 - Teaser & Introduction
01:08 - Who is Angie Goeke?
10:31 - Developing an EP, Genres, Musical Influences
14:52 - All Tied Up in "Knots"
18:02 - Music Production & Creative Journey
26:15 - Creative Process and Inspiration in Songwriting
31:06 - Exploring the Album "If I Were Honest"
41:45 - Collaboration, Studio vs. Live, Faith
50:20 - Secular Music & Crowdfunding Journey
01:03:44 - Challenges of Being a Creative Artist
01:10:26 - Farewell
01:16:33 - Closing and Outro
Today on Creative Christians, singer and songwriter Angie Gehke joins me to talk music, creativity and faith.
Angie Goeke:Being in a secular industry. There is a fine line between feeling like God is allowing me to do this so that I bring people to Him. There's a fine line between that and just letting Him have control of that.
Tim Ristow:That's singer-songwriter Angie Gehke Today on Creative Christians Creativity, faith, inspiration. As Christian creatives, how is our creativity different? Because of our faith. Hohle: You gotta believe in what you're doing. Reid: Listen and let the Holy Spirit lead you illis: To be in Christ and have an identity in Him above anything else, I think it's extraordinary.
Angie Goeke:you believe God's called you, you can't walk away from that.
Tim Ristow:These are stories of creative Christians. Welcome to another episode of Creative Christians, the podcast series that explores Christian creatives, their talents, their faith and what they're doing at the intersection of both. Legendary jazz singer Ella Fitzgerald once said "Music is the universal language that brings people closer together. Mary Travers of Peter Paul and Mary fame said Folk music has always contained a concern for the human condition. A saying that is often attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt is this A woman is like a tea bag you never know how strong they are until they're in hot water. Americana singer-songwriter and music producer Mary Bragg recently was quoted as saying e're all just trying to write our next best song to connect. and to have someone reach for the Kleenex again. There's healing in that connection and giving that to a person is one of my biggest .". Reformer Martin Luther said Beautiful music is the art of the prophets that can calm the agitations of the soul. It is one of the most magnificent and delightful presence God has given us. Fellow creatives clearly were talking music in this episode, in particular Americana and Folk music by a wonderfully talented female artist. All of the quotes I just read have some kind of connection to my guest today and you'll uncover those connections as you listen to this interview. I'm honored to have as my guest today singer and songwriter Angie Gehke. Angie is an Americana and Folk musician who released her solo debut music EP, titled Nuts, back in 2019, followed by her first full length album, if I Were Honest, in 2022. And at this moment, as I'm recording this, she is hard at work in the studio recording her latest album, which will be available sometime later this year, here in 2024. Angie was born in Austin, Texas, grew up in a musical family and even performed once for her majesty Queen Elizabeth II when she visited Texas. Angie is also an artist has published a novel titled "A Girl and Her War Horse, worked as a theater director, teaches middle school art, serves as executive director of Not in Our City, a nonprofit raising awareness of domestic sex trafficking, and is the worship leader of a local church where her husband serves as pastor. But music is her passion. Americana Highways wrote this about her music and talent, saying Angie's emphasis is on her melodic appeal, smart words vividly demonstrated, and she's filled her album with heartwarming tunes and immersed them in everything that is essential to good songwriting and performance. Angie attended and graduated from my alma mater, Concordia Lutheran College, now Concordia University, exas. Back in the day I traveled to Houston to sit down and chat with her over a cup of coffee about music, songwriting, creativity, faith and the challenges and joys of an independent artist breaking into today's increasingly complex music industry. Angie, welcome to Creative Christians.
Angie Goeke:Thanks, thanks for having me.
Tim Ristow:You know, I can't remember if we've actually met before. I get the feeling we have, I'm sure at Concordia or somewhere at a church or something I just know we have.
Angie Goeke:I just can't pinpoint the exact time or when that was, I think, probably Concordia when I was at Concordia.
Tim Ristow:Most likely yeah. What years did you go there again?
Angie Goeke:1997 2, 2001.
Tim Ristow:Okay so I . was probably. Let me Let I might I have been on staff there, I'm not sure. Anyway, you're a musician, singer-songwriter, but how did music first become a significant part of your life?
Angie Goeke:Well, I grew up in a very musical household. My dad was church organist, choir director, all of that. My three older siblings were all involved in music in some way, and so it was around us all the time. Constantly, constantly. Early on. It was something that I took an interest to and spent time doing for fun, Right.
Tim Ristow:What about the singing part? Was that something that you were drawn to early on as well?
Angie Goeke:Well, I think that my parents got a little tired of me singing to myself in the house when I was little and I think I was first or second grade and my dad suggested that I go audition for the Austin Children's Choir that was housed at a Concordia.
Tim Ristow:I remember it well.
Angie Goeke:So that was kind of the beginning of that. I stayed in it till, I think, eighth grade and yeah, it was pretty informative for me.
Tim Ristow:Did you have a sense early on that this was something you wanted to pursue down the road? Was this something that you had a passion for? I guess I should say early on.
Angie Goeke:Yeah, I think so. I was the youngest of four, but by a lot, so there was a tenured gap between me and my siblings. So there was a big section of life where I was the only kid at home. I would go disappear in my room and back when all there was were cassette tapes, I would play a cassette tape on one thing, on the radio or boom box or whatever and then have another tape recorder and another tape and I would record myself singing harmonies with whatever song I was playing on the first one, and then you were multi-tracking early on. Yeah, I remember trying to write songs just to fill up time. I needed things to do and that's just where I went with it.
Tim Ristow:So you had a sense early on that you were creative or that you were interested in creative activities. How did you foster and develop that singing talent as time went on?
Angie Goeke:Austin Children's Choir was a big part of that. I learned a lot about music theory and things like that. And then in high school I took private lessons and participated in choir and state and all that kind of stuff and then, when I got to Concordia, I continued with private lessons and took as many classes as I could.
Tim Ristow:And that's Concordia Lutheran College in Austin right, yes. Yeah, what was the mascot when you were there?
Angie Goeke:It was already the Tornadoes, the Tornadoes.
Tim Ristow:Okay, yes, see, I was the Stags. How did you go there to study?
Angie Goeke:I went because my dad taught there and that made tuition nice, and I did not actually declare a major until like the beginning of my senior year. I just took classes that interested me and then at the beginning of that year, Mike Middendorf was my advisor and he was like Angie, you got to pick a major.
Tim Ristow:The time has come.
Angie Goeke:Yeah, well, what am I closest to like, based on the classes that I've taken?
Tim Ristow:Right, there you go.
Angie Goeke:So I have a liberal arts major in fine arts and psychology, and then a minor in behavioral science.
Tim Ristow:Wow.
Angie Goeke:So I just took the classes that interested me, and that's kind of where I ended up.
Tim Ristow:Okay, let's switch gears for a second and talk about faith. Obviously, that's a big part of your family. Your family is well known here in Texas, particularly central Texas area, and I think it's safe to say faith was a part of your family, your upbringing, your life. Tell me a little bit about that.
Angie Goeke:Yeah, we grew up LCMS Lutheran and we're heavily involved in church. We were actually my family, my siblings and I were talking about this this past weekend that it was never a question whether or not we were going to church on Sunday morning. It was. It was just, it was the given, it was the assumed. That's what we're doing.
Tim Ristow:Right.
Angie Goeke:And my dad found ways for us to not just attend church but be involved and serve within it, and I think that was pretty instrumental in how we viewed faith that it wasn't just something to consume but needed to be also there, needed to be an outpouring, you know an expression bringing the hands and feet you know of Jesus and, you know, using that in creative ways, being a creative and using music or art is a way of serving the church, is a way of serving the community, serving those who don't believe and being a means to, to introduce them to Jesus. Right, yeah, that really became, I think, foundational to just how I view my faith and living it out.
Tim Ristow:Yeah, so jump back to music.
Angie Goeke:Okay.
Tim Ristow:So we're going to move forward quite a bit. When and why did you decide to suddenly make an album? How did that come about?
Angie Goeke:I have four kids and Bless you yeah. Um, when my youngest started kindergarten, you know, I all of a sudden had a lot of time on my hands. For for most of that time when my kids were young, I stayed home with them and you know, I had always had this passion to do something more creative, to write music, and recording too, and like putting all the pieces together creatively was a big part of that motivation. But when, when he went to kindergarten, I thought, well, I'm not getting any younger and you know I've only got so much time left. It's time to. If I want to do this, I need to do it now.
Tim Ristow:Jump off and do it. Yeah, so Did you have some ideas, kind of percolating, already that you were like this feels like I've got some things I want to explore.
Angie Goeke:Yeah, I had been writing just for myself, you know, at home. So there were a few things that I thought, you know, maybe this would work, and it was more at the beginning, more a curiosity like how will other people respond to this? You know I like it because it's just been for me, but you know, how are other people going to feel about it? Are they going to connect with whatever the message was behind an individual song? You know, I was curious about that. You know People's response.
Tim Ristow:Yeah, I think as artists, creatives in general, we're always curious about that and worried about that. Do you consider yourself more introverted or extroverted?
Angie Goeke:Definitely introverted. Ah, yeah.
Tim Ristow:See, of course, most creatives are, or many creatives are. And so I think there's that fascination too with how people respond to my work, whatever it may be, and to explore that is. I know some people think it's a prideful thing, and we'll talk about that a little later too. You know how you balance some of that in industries where you're on stage and things like that, but that's not always the case. It's just interested in seeing how people respond to the ideas and things you want to share. I think that's a fascinating part of the process. Your style has been described as this Americana folk. I think we've got some jazz in there, probably some bluegrass really sounds in there too, country. I saw somebody even described a little bit of world music, and I could hear a little of that too, what would you describe Personally your genre and style?
Angie Goeke:I would say probably Americana folk, mainly because they serve pretty broad terms.
Tim Ristow:Yes, they are.
Angie Goeke:For our genres. So I feel like it kind of encapsulates everything. Right. Yeah, I mean I definitely have. There are some jazz influence in my stuff and it may be a little bit of country, yeah, but I try not to focus too much on the genre you know, just let it be creative and you know, but I do like that Americana and folk music is about storytelling and you know depth of lyrics, not just typical country, you know, like riding in my truck kind of stuff. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It's just you know not where I probably land.
Tim Ristow:Right, okay. Well, now that age old question. You know what artists and music has influenced you? I'm sure there's been some of those styles in those artists, but you know who's influenced you over the years.
Angie Goeke:When I was in high school I was the weird kid listening to like Ella Fitzgerald, so I love her and her singing style and you know the old classic country like Willie Nelson, good, sad songs.
Tim Ristow:Yes.
Angie Goeke:And recently more recently, I've really been listening and learning a lot from Eva O'Donovan. She is, I'd say, americana folk, but lots of bluegrass influence and just good storytelling and good mixture of instrumentation too. That's pretty cool.
Tim Ristow:Yeah, very nice.
Angie Goeke:I see you looking baby. I see you want me to a little bit what I got. My guest today is Angie.
Tim Ristow:Gehke, singer, songwriter. You're listening to her song no More from the Knots EP. Well, let's walk through your music here a little bit In 2019,. I believe it was you put out the EP Knots. Why that title? And where did some of those songs and that music come from?
Angie Goeke:Well, that was my first like we were talking about earlier kind of first attempt to see, like, does anybody like this stuff, you know, and kind of joke that like in the music industry, if you don't have a CD then there's kind of zero credibility to do much. It's kind of like having a business card, like it's a staple You've got to have something to give somebody. Now it's even weirder because nobody has CD players.
Tim Ristow:I still love physical media. That's just me.
Angie Goeke:Those songs were things that had been collected over time. You know, in my writing, just for myself, I'm trying to remember. I think maybe Knots, it's the title, it's named after the title song and I think that that song I wrote for the project. Yeah, there were some other. I'm trying to. I'm like I'm recalling now, how did that all happen? Yeah, there were a few songs that I think I wrote specifically for that project, but overall the EP was supposed to kind of explore the complexities of relationships, and the song Knots is all about. You know, it's a metaphor, analogy of marriage right. Time the knot and how that can be tricky Right. And so, yeah, the songs in there are trying to explore maybe all of the parts of relationships and marriage that nobody's really comfortable to talk about or admit, but probably everybody experiences.
Tim Ristow:And what a great way to explore music. Of course is so wonderful to be able to explore things like that and lyrics, which can have, you know, layers of meaning to them, because you can say things in a few lines of lyrics that can give a depth of multiple different things that allow the listener to explore and apply things to their own lives, as well as get something out of your own story too. So how did that process go about? How did you find a producer? Did you self-produce? How'd you find a studio? You know how are some of those logistical things that have to happen for now. How did all that come to be?
Angie Goeke:It was all God. There was a couple in our congregation and I just happened to find out through word of mouth that he had some experience in producing. He was in town studying to be an entertainment lawyer, and so I just asked if he would help, and so he ended up producing and helping me. You know understand what that even meant. It was a good partnership in that I was able to somewhat self-produce, but I definitely he was there to help with all of it. He found the studio. I mean, he really helped out. He's a good friend and helped me understand what the process even looked like, wow.
Tim Ristow:Did you find that freeing in a way to finally jump into, and I assume you recorded this in a fairly short period of time?
Angie Goeke:Yeah, yeah, I think it took about a week, maybe, maybe a little bit more than that, but, yeah, it felt good to feel like I was actually taking a step in the right direction for what I wanted to do, you know, not waiting anymore.
Tim Ristow:Right Finally jumping in, and so then I think it was there four, four, six songs on that EP. I'm trying to remember.
Angie Goeke:Yeah, six I think Six songs.
Tim Ristow:So you were able to finally produce some music and, as we talked about earlier, you were wondering about how people would respond. How did people respond to that?
Angie Goeke:Positively. One thing that I did not learn the first go around was you know, we made this thing. I had it on a CD and I thought, okay, like there it is. Right Now people are supposed to like, listen to it and love it and share it, and you know. So I did not understand all of the work that needs to go into rolling out a new, you know, project and music.
Tim Ristow:If you build it, they will come, doesn't always? Yeah, exactly.
Angie Goeke:So for the few people who heard it, it was received well. But that was definitely the biggest learning that I got from that experience was I have you have. There's a lot of work. Making the music is only half the job.
Tim Ristow:And then you have to Distribution promotion.
Angie Goeke:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Okay.
Tim Ristow:So then COVID comes along, and you obviously didn't rest during that time. You decided to still be creative. Tell me about how you had a series of singles that you put out during that time. How, how did that idea come about? And you know how did you do that.
Angie Goeke:And it was about reinventing how to do things, I think, for everybody in every you know industry, and so I had made a new year's resolution in 2020 to write a new write and record a new song every month. Part of that was holding myself accountable and knowing like I'm just going to be sitting at home, you know, and a house full of other people because we're not going anywhere. Part of it was just holding myself accountable and making that public. Then I couldn't, you know.
Tim Ristow:Right, I had to do it then, yeah, you were committed.
Angie Goeke:Yeah, and so I mean that's how it kind of all started. Some of the songs had already been written but hadn't been recorded, and so, yeah, we just did it all remotely from in my house and I would lay down my tracks and then send that to the guitarist and he would lay down his tracks and then, like there's one song that the steel guitar player that I had found, or the only one that I had kind of known about, was, I think, in Florida, and he sent in his stuff, and then I would send all of those tracks to Nashville, to a sound engineer there, and then he mixed and mastered and Nice. Yeah, it was really. It was again a good learning curve. You know forced learning, but it was. That was good. I didn't quite make all 12 songs. There were a few months that nothing happened but, I got close.
Tim Ristow:Yeah.
Angie Goeke:Yeah, another silent back boot dinner. No words, no touch, just champagne. But for what? Just more of the same. I'm thinking how I want out. The flame here is dying. A single tear rolls down. Don't you care that I'm crying? Okay, so then we get to 2022.
Tim Ristow:You finally are able to write record and release your first full length album. I'm thinking how I want out the flame here is dying your first full length album. If I were honest, I got to. I love this album. I really do.
Angie Goeke:Thanks.
Tim Ristow:I was listening to it again on the drive in, as I mentioned earlier, and there's just so many songs that stand out for me on that album. But tell me about the writing of that and how that album came about.
Angie Goeke:The producer for that album, Mary Bragg. She is a singer, songwriter in her own right and I've always admired her and her writing and her voice, like all of it. And she was producing her own stuff and I heard kind of through the grapevine of all my friends that she was starting to produce for other people. And I didn't know her all that well. I mean, I knew, obviously I knew of her, I had been at some conferences that she was at, but we didn't have a friendship or working relationship at that point. So I just kind of on a whim, said I'm gonna reach out and ask her if she'd be interested in producing my next album. I had zero songs, but it felt like I needed to. There's one. I'm just gonna fake it till I make it. You wanna produce my next album? As she said, yes, and so then started the process of okay, what songs are gonna, what are we gonna put on here? And so and Mary suggested this to dig through everything that I had ever written, even partially written things, go back as far as I could and send her anything that, even if it was halfway done, anything that I thought might have some legs to it and then she kind of helped filter out through that things that stuck out to her like oh I think we could really do something cool with this or something cool with this, and so yeah, that's kind of how that happened. And there were a few holes that needed to be filled and so then wrote some specifically for for the project with that it in mind.
Tim Ristow:So that brings us to the creative process a little bit. Let's get into the nitty gritty a little bit. How do you write? What is your creative process like? Do you start with the lyrics? Do you start with the music? Do you write both? Do you write one or the other? What is that process like for you? Obviously, I'm sure you know, as so many people and writers in particular you know, there's real life stuff that you draw upon. But what is that process like for you, and where are you getting some of your ideas?
Angie Goeke:The process has been different for me almost every time. But the more I do it, I think sometimes there will be melodies that come into my head and I will make a voice memo of a random melody. Sometimes, you know, I'm just goofing around on the piano or the ukulele and some kind of chord, structure and melody just happen. I happen upon it, right. So I record that and take a little note of it. And then, you know, sometimes I'll be watching TV and something that somebody says pops out and is like oh, that would kind of be a cool hook, lyrically, you know, in a song, or that's a cool twist of words or something like that. Or I'll be in conversation, like if I were honest, that came about because I was sitting at a table with my husband and some friends and we were just I don't even remember what we were talking about and we were all laughing and joking and whatever was being said. I said well, if I were honest, I'd probably lie. And my husband was like that's a song title, write it down. So I have you know all these working like documents and places to store on my phone of title ideas, you know. And so sometimes if I'm starting with a title, I will write the lyrics first and write to that title. But sometimes if I'm starting with a melody, you know, going back and listening to that little voice note up, that will inspire what the song should be about. Sometimes it's I've got these words, now I need a melody and I listen, you know through things and they just, yeah, pairs together.
Tim Ristow:You brought up a great, great word when you said inspire what inspires you.
Angie Goeke:I mean I think life, life experiences, whether mine, or things I'm observing within the church or with my kids, or relationships, friendships I think good stories inspire me, so sometimes it might be part of my story paired with somebody else's story. You know, that kind of gets morphed into this unique story in a song. But I think there is a common thread that runs through all of us as human beings, because we're all a part of a story, and so I think finding the thread, in different circumstances, that everybody can connect to, even if their story is not like mine, you know what is the thread that would connect to anybody? I was at a songwriting conference and I heard one of the speakers say think about the 16 year old girl in the middle of Iowa and all she has is her radio. Like how can you connect to her? You're in a completely different stage of life than her, but the universality of music and song. Yeah, yeah.
Tim Ristow:Do you find yourself working through things, whether it's issues or just different matters, through your song, through your lyrical right? I mean like you mentioned not dealing with marriage and things like that. Are there different things that you find yourself working through in music, or is it just more of an expression of events or stories?
Angie Goeke:or things.
Tim Ristow:What does that like for you?
Angie Goeke:I think there's definitely a component of it being somewhat therapeutic. You know, sometimes the reality of a situation can become a little bit more present. When I've filtered out my personal emotions or reflections through song right, Then it's kind of like a little bit of clarity, like oh well, you know, maybe it's not that bad. Or yeah, exactly, you know, or maybe I don't know this is an area of concern all those kinds of things you know and maybe that's why I like sad songs. Sometimes, you know, writing a sad song is therapeutic, absolutely. It's a way to get all of that out and just like journaling or you know tons of other ways to work things out, but there's definitely that therapeutic side to it. That's a far to kind of element to it. I noticed that listening to your album Driving In Again today.
Tim Ristow:There is a certain melancholy element to some of the songs, which is nice, because your voice really works well with that. And you've got quite a different range of styles. I have to say with your voice, because one song you can sound. I think it's the first track if I pray, is that?
Angie Goeke:right, and so I pray.
Tim Ristow:So I pray, thank you. You know, you've got kind of a different sound there, and then you get to leftovers and it's a different vocal sound. But I love that. You've really got this unique style even from song to song that fits the different but for lack of a better word, the different styles of music that you're approaching on each song and I love that. But there's a number I noticed on that album that have this kind of melancholy element to that. Was that intentional or did that just kind of happen as a result of the song? You know the lyrics you were writing and the music that came out.
Angie Goeke:I think it just happened. Law of Averages. I mean and I think if you ask any songwriter, the sad ones are always easier to write. It's hard to write a happy song. So you know, I'm just I'm not that good to have an album full of happy songs.
Tim Ristow:Now the flip side of that is you do have some great upbeat stuff on there too. So I don't mean to make it sound like it's a depressing album, because it's not, and that's why I use the word melancholy, because there's something kind of bittersweet, but you know there's something sweet about that too. So I love that. There's just some great, great stuff on there. And let's, you know, let's talk about some of the songs real quick, tell me a little bit about I'll mention a couple of songs and then tell me about you know the writing behind that or kind of how that came about. And the first one I got to mention I told you about listening to on the drive-in is Leftovers. Silence turns into frustration.
Angie Goeke:words get said with no filtration, holding new wounds, return out the lies Just another night with a fight, like a baby crying for his mother. We demand that much more from each other.
Tim Ristow:Brothers, we will feel like we're getting smoother. I love that song. How did that come about?
Angie Goeke:So it's a weird story, it makes no sense. Probably a little insight into my brain. So we were. This was back when we lived in Buda. There is a cotton field and you know, every year during I don't know the spring, I guess, when they would harvest all the cotton, the smell, I mean it was just so overwhelming and we would, with the kids in the car, we'd always drive with the windows down so we could smell cotton, and then there was always leftover cotton that would, you know, roll across the highway and get caught in the weeds. And so the idea of leftovers or just the idea of things getting left over, and just you know, cotton is such a sweet smelling thing, but for there to be just leftover rolling across the highway, getting run over by cars, it was an interesting thought to me. So that was kind of where it started. And then when I started writing from that, that's where kind of life crept in. With four kids, you know, there's not a whole lot left over at the end of the day for just the marriage and relationally friends, you know, anybody outside of the context of those four people you know. Yeah, that's kind of how that all developed and I wanted it to sound a little quirky and upbeat, because that's also like what it feels like in our house, especially back then when our kids were those ages, you know a little chaotic, a little, but fun you know, Right, yeah.
Tim Ristow:Next one whiskey and a teacup. That was one of the singles right, and you did a music video for that too. So tell me about that whole process as well.
Angie Goeke:The song itself came about. I actually had coffee with another singer-songwriter, who happened to be male, and I am an introvert, and so we sit down for this coffee and he kind of just starts telling me all these things that he thinks that I should do for my career and I kind of thought, hmm, I mean okay, but I didn't know, that's why we were meeting for coffee.
Tim Ristow:Thanks, but no.
Angie Goeke:Right, and so I walked away from that meeting upset. You know, offended that. Who does he think he is? That you know. So then I started thinking about. You know, I'm gonna write a song. I'm angry.
Tim Ristow:Great time to write.
Angie Goeke:Yes, and I was looking at some quotes about women or about being an introvert, and found a quote by Eleanor Roosevelt that said and I'm probably gonna not say it exactly right, but it was something about women are like teabags, that you don't know how strong they are until you put them in hot water, and so that's kind of where the whole idea of like whiskey and a teacup and I'm stronger than you think I am came from. And yeah, it kind of then became my anthem as an introverted woman, like just cause I'm quiet doesn't mean there's not anything going on up in my head Exactly.
Tim Ristow:I love that. What a unique way for that song to develop. Yeah, how cool.
Angie Goeke:Yeah, the video. Part of the strategic strategy for releasing the album was to make to have some videos, and so that became one that we thought well, that'll make a great video. And then another kind of God thing the video ended up being sponsored by Johnny Walker Whiskey, oh nice, and so that's why in the video there's definitely a plug. There's whiskey bottles everywhere with their logo on it, but it was just really cool that that happened.
Tim Ristow:Yeah, was that the first video you recorded?
Angie Goeke:I did make a video for commitment down from the Nazi EP. Okay.
Tim Ristow:What was? What's that process like for a musician you know to step in and make a music video. You know it is part of the game too, but I know some musicians don't like doing them. What was that like for you and I know your family was involved and at least whisking in a teacup right.
Angie Goeke:Yeah, well, for whisking a teacup. It was definitely a different process than the video for commitment down. That was definitely like just trying to pull together ideas myself and low budget and how are we gonna? You know, let's try to make this happen For whisking a teacup. I worked with a company, and so they formulated the plot of the, which was as a creative, wanting to know what other people think right. It was really fun to see the ideas that they can look.
Tim Ristow:I wouldn't have come up with that plot how they interpreted your song, right yeah.
Angie Goeke:Yeah, when I told them I'd love to have my kids involved in it, I think that kind of directed some of that plotline and then it just kind of came together.
Tim Ristow:What'd you film it at?
Angie Goeke:My house, you did.
Tim Ristow:Okay, how awesome.
Angie Goeke:Yeah.
Tim Ristow:I know there was the scene. There was some confetti or something and lights and people dancing and all that. It looked like it was a lot of fun, Like y'all had a blast.
Angie Goeke:It was it was. And it was great because I'm actually not in the video a whole lot, except for singing the song, and that was just kind of edited in right. So it was really fun getting to just step back and watch my family and friends, you know, receive direction from the directors and I just got to be a fly on the wall. It was really fun.
Tim Ristow:How many takes did you have to do All the way through for your song?
Angie Goeke:Oh goodness, I mean, it was a full day.
Tim Ristow:Yeah.
Angie Goeke:They were great directors, yeah. So yeah, I mean, I don't remember. Usually it's a lot, yeah, it was a lot, just cause they want to get every angle.
Tim Ristow:Yeah, okay, the title track. If I were honest, why did you come up with the title based after all the songs, or did you write that intending it to be the title? Tell me a little bit about that.
Angie Goeke:I selected that title for the album after the song was written Because I also thought well, it applies. You know, if I were honest, these would be all the things that I say you know, and for me, the album you mentioned earlier, that like there's kind of all these different genres that come together in it and I felt like the album being my first full-length album, was a way for all the different kind of sides of me to be represented, from the melancholy to kind of the sassy. You know whiskey drinking, you know all of that coming together.
Tim Ristow:It encapsulates your personality.
Angie Goeke:So the idea of you know if I were honest this is all the different sides of me, take it or leave it you think I can't find? my voice, but I stay silent by choice and I ain't gonna add to your noise Cause I'm too damn refined. You're wrong. What you see as weak Is potent and strong.
Tim Ristow:Ooh-ee. Developing the music is that something that's really more collaborative with a lot of the musicians, especially, I mean, a little bit later we can talk about live versus studio and kind of the different environments You've done both and kind of or feel free to integrate that here. Whatever you feel best respond to. But that collaboration with a producer and with musicians, what is that like? Working with other people in the collaborative process to develop your music? Do you find yourself wanting to, you know, especially early? on your first efforts, wanting to wrestle controls. You know, let's you know I want to do it this way, or do you find yourself much more open to that collaboration? Do you find the other musicians whether it's session musicians or whatever, contributing to that, or do you find yourself having to be more responsible for really coming up with the music being?
Angie Goeke:you know, I'm the artist.
Tim Ristow:I need to develop this. What's that like?
Angie Goeke:Well, I think again. I've learned a lot about this and, like with my first EP, I think I was so kind of new and green to that world that I just let other people make a lot of the decisions because, I was like, oh, they probably know better than me. In hindsight, I wish I would have spoken up more about the direction to take in some of those songs.
Tim Ristow:Musically.
Angie Goeke:Musically.
Tim Ristow:Yeah, okay.
Angie Goeke:Working with Mary. One of the reasons that I wanted to work with her was because I loved her music and I loved her style and I knew that whatever she would put on my stuff, it would be in the same vein, and I knew, like, that's exactly what I want. And so we recorded it in Nashville, and so the session musicians were all amazing, and one thing that I really appreciated about Mary's approach to producing was just let them do what they hear. I mean, there was some guidance in there, but so many times the guitarist would lay down a track and her response would be like hmm, yes, let's lean into that a little bit more, do it again and just lean into that. And then just these magical moments happen where you're like, oh my gosh, that was amazing. And so I think there has to be this even balance between here's kind of big picture where we're going with this this is the feel, this is the sentiment, not this more this but then being completely open for the people who I mean it's what they do to just do their best and give them room to be creative. Because, then that's when stuff happens. You're like I would have never thought of that, but that was so good.
Tim Ristow:Is that freeing in a creative sense to be able to collaborate with people, like, saying, the studio, and have moments like that happen?
Angie Goeke:It's one of the reasons why I like to record. It can happen on stage too, but I feel like you're usually so rehearsed. It doesn't happen as often as being in that environment where we're like we're here to try everything, anything and everything.
Tim Ristow:And you can stop and redo a moment or on stage performing for an audience pretty much got to keep it rolling along, although you can have your flubs and moments there too, but usually people are wanting a show, right? Yeah, well, talk just briefly about that. Live versus studio what have your live performances been like? And I know you've done a lot because you've done some crowdfunding and of course that's part of the rewards and we can talk about that in a minute too, but what do you prefer? Live studio?
Angie Goeke:What for?
Tim Ristow:you. I know they both have different pros and cons but what do you enjoy most as a performer?
Angie Goeke:as a musician, it's so hard. I think I like them equally, but for different reasons. So being in the like I said, being in the studio, just that creative space and watching things come together, it's like sitting down and putting together a puzzle, like a little. You know this puzzle goes, you know peace goes here and I don't quite know exactly what the whole puzzle is supposed to look like at the end, but you get to see it come together and it's just I don't know, there's no other word for it it's magical, I think. So I mean, I really love that and I love the collaboration. I love working with other people and being amazed at their gifts. They're doing something I can't do and I love that. And then on stage, I just I love the interaction with the audience. You know there's in the studio there's a disconnect between the music and the people who are gonna hear it, and so being on stage, being able to talk about you know, the story behind the song or you know to say a joke about it or whatever, that engagement with the audience is special too, you know, and at times can feel magical. You know There've been some songs, particularly the sad ones, where at the end of the song you can almost hear a pen drop, because you know everybody's in the moment and they're in the story and they're feeling the things that I'm hoping we, that thread, you know we're connecting on that thread and Getting back to getting that response.
Tim Ristow:So you're wondering how are? People respond to it. You get that on stage.
Angie Goeke:Yeah, when those moments happen and there's deaf, you can feel it. There's a difference between everybody's just bored and they're not responding, or they're so in and to it that it's silent. You know, you can just feel it. You can feel that human connection right that we're all on the same page. And yeah, I mean, they're both special, different things, right I?
Tim Ristow:think that's a great assessment of both Faith.
Angie Goeke:Okay.
Tim Ristow:How does faith play a role in your creativity? The show is Creative Christians, it's all about how. Christians use their creativity, but faith is a part of that. How would you say faith is a part of your creativity and creative process?
Angie Goeke:Well, you know, growing up in the church and being a pastor's wife for most of my life, my gifts have been used within the church, to serve the church, and I think that's how it should be. I think that's. You know, whatever our gifting is, you know people who have the gift of hospitality like, use that gift to church. You know people who have the gift of spreadsheets, use that at church. You know, if you're a plumber, use that at church. You know there's always a need for any of those things For me, because that had been the primary way for me to express my gifts. There came a moment when I was curious about what the secular world, how the secular world would respond to my gift, what I consider a gift from God, because the thing about church people is they're also really nice and I don't know that they would tell you if you stink Right. So there was a little bit of like needing some validation, like am I wasting my time doing this, even if it's within the church? You know, do I need to be doing something else? I think now, having been in the secular music world and being myself within that which is going to include my faith, I think that God uses it in me just being good news to other people. So even if it's, you know, offering help on crowdfunding, you know, just because I've done it and have been successful at it, I'm still learning, but there might be things that I know that could help somebody else out. They could pay somebody to pay somebody for that service. You know, there's consultants who you can, you know, pay them a fee and they will help you with your crowdfunding. I just want to be good news and be helpful, and I think there is a fine line between feeling like the goal or the purpose of me being in a secular industry. There is a fine line between feeling like God is allowing me to do this so that I bring people to him. There's a fine line between that and just letting him have control of that. I had gone to a counseling session, right kind of, when I was starting on this journey of secular music, and things were going well and I was. You know, I was getting some good feedback and good rapport with people, and it just so happened at the same time that there were some layoffs at church and so I was not working in the church at that time, so it was a big shift for me. I wasn't kind of doing both at the same time. And the counselor asked why do you think God is giving you rapport? And my first thought, the good Sunday school answer, was so that he can lead people to Jesus, you know. So he's using me for the greater kingdom and you know that kind of thing. And the counselor said maybe, maybe that's just a natural byproduct, that just happens, but maybe God's goal in this is to just love you. That brings you joy, it brings you happiness, and maybe he just wants to lavish you with love because he loves you and he wants you to be happy, he wants you to have joy. And for me that was such a mind blowing thought that you know, having grown up in the church and it being all about serving, which that's a good thing you can, I think there's, it can be twisted in our minds that God's only interested in us to use us for his glory, and then we kind of start feeling like a used up you know mop in the corner like here's another spill, go clean it up, here's, you know, and not really valued. The joy can kind of be lost in that when we feel like we're being just used by the church to output. I think, especially as creatives we are used a lot by the church and I say that going like but we should also give our gifts right. But there's a fine line it can be abused. And so for me that was so freeing.
Tim Ristow:That's a wonderful sentiment, just to kind of gee, maybe God is doing this just for me, to relish his love and to be in the moment with him. That's a wonderful, wonderful sentiment and we don't think about that often enough, especially in this day and age of media oversaturation. You know, we're all thinking we should be here for grander purposes, and we are. But at the same time, what if? What if through this gift, what if through this moment? What if through this album, this song, whatever it may be, god just wants me to be known that I'm loved by him. That's awesome.
Angie Goeke:Yeah, I mean cause, honestly, he doesn't need me. Yeah, he's God. He can do whatever he wants, however he wants it. I'm not so important or my gift is not so amazing that without it he's not gonna still accomplish his will, and so there's a humility that comes with that that I'm not actually needed as much as I think I'm needed, and a freedom that's just like you know what Cool.
Tim Ristow:God chose you anyway. Yeah. Yeah, we're not needed.
Angie Goeke:God chose us anyway.
Tim Ristow:Yeah, that's beautiful, particularly significant mentor for you. I know you mentioned Mary Bragg on your last album. I assume that she was obviously sounded like a pretty significant mentor for you, or there are others in the process so far.
Angie Goeke:Ken Gaines. He used to be here in Houston. He's recently moved. Amazing performer, amazing songwriter, has years ahead of me but he used to like offer classes and host a song circle where everybody could come and like share their songs and get feedback and that kind of thing. I remember I like specifically asked him will you be my mentor? So he's been good at some of the practical things and also the balancing of you know, keep it fun. Yeah, yeah, you know that's good yeah, and then I'm going way back. I would even say Bernie Gassler, who started Austin Jones Choir, jones, choir.
Tim Ristow:I was gonna ask you about him early. Yes, he was a foundation of that organization for so long. What an incredible man he was. You talk about getting into secular music, right? So you don't consider your albums and I know this is all labeling Christian albums right? It's your music period. Have you encountered any pushback from people, either in the church or just, you know, in your circles of influence, that maybe have questioned that in any way? Knowing who you are, knowing that you're facing. Why aren't you something like why aren't you doing Christian music or something like that? Have you had to deal with any of that?
Angie Goeke:You know there have been a few well-meaning, lovely ladies in the church who just not that you know. Why aren't you? But I'd really like it if you did kind of you know, gentle, nudging Right. I find worship music particularly difficult to write. My music when I'm writing does not often lend itself to be overly like corporate singable. I like crazy melodies and unique chord structures and that kind of thing. And so you know, worship music has a different goal. It needs to be super accessible to anybody singing it, and I find that more difficult to write, just because when I sit down to write I want to get super creative and find the different thing to do here and not maybe the predictable thing. As far as pushback, I don't know that I've received pushback.
Tim Ristow:That hasn't been a big issue for you. Yeah, that's good. ["pushback"]. I'm talking with Americana and folk artist, angie Gehke. Crowdfunding let's talk about that for a second, because you just I think this is the first time you've done this with the album that you're working on. Is that correct or was, if I were honest, also crowdfunded? It also was crowdfunded, yeah, so this is a great question.
Angie Goeke:I think it also was crowdfunded, yeah, so this is my second time to do it.
Tim Ristow:OK, so tell me about that process, both with, if I'm honest, and now this current album that you're actually at work on right now, as I understand it, so I will say that crowdfunding is my least favorite thing on the planet to do, but it's necessary.
Angie Goeke:When you're an independent artist, there's no label paying to help make this music or get it out to the world. I mean, it's an expensive endeavor. They warn you when you get started you will never, never make your money back. Yeah, but that's not what we do, right? But it'd be nice to make money back. It would be nice. It's just so much work and it is so nerve-wracking. The first time that I did it not ever having done it I was worried I'm not going to reach my goal, Because if you don't reach the goal, you don't collect any money and that's it. You've got nothing. Now, if I were honest, I had already made the album when I did the crowdfunding, so the money on a credit card was already spent. I did not have the money, but we spent it to make it happen. So the crowdfunding was really about paying off the debt. Paying off the debt and then if there was anything left over, going towards promoting it and marketing and that kind of stuff.
Tim Ristow:And it's expensive with all the reward side of things too right, because you have to figure that in to kind of take care of that side of it too right?
Angie Goeke:Yes, but I'm learning how to be smarter about that. Rewards that don't cost as much or anything at all. So experiences don't cost anything. The good thing about digital music is that I don't have to mail it. There's no fee for it to go through the airwaves.
Tim Ristow:Yeah, you don't have to burn a CD, manufacture it, duplicate it, print it.
Angie Goeke:This last time I was just again. I think it's all God working things out, but some of the rewards that I had were because people heard that I was doing this and, in the middle of the campaign, reached out to me and said, hey, how about we offer this Concert here in my venue and with all of these things? And so those things didn't cost me anything. They were essentially making a donation. It just happened to all work out.
Tim Ristow:That going down to the wire? Do you feel confident when you're in the midst of it? This is going to have. I know, somebody's going to swoop in at the end and do this, or is it much more tense than that?
Angie Goeke:Oh, it's so tense, especially this last time, on the last day of the campaign, when I woke up in the morning I think that we were only 49% funded, so I roughly needed to raise $12,000 in six hours or something like that, 10 hours maybe.
Tim Ristow:Did you think this was happening when you woke up?
Angie Goeke:Yeah, and I was OK, what's plan B? Ok, I could open up another credit card, I could be somebody else, I could make up a name and be that person and donate the rest, so that I at least get what I've raised so far. I mean, there were all kinds of thoughts going through my head. How can I make this happen? But yeah, I was trying to think OK, what friends do I have? I could just really. I know you have a lot of money. Can you just loan me some and I'll pay you back, but it was down to the wire, I think the last 45 minutes still needed, I think roughly around $3,000 to reach the goal and I was like 45 minutes, this isn't happening, and two people actually swept in with the exact amount that was needed, so I ended up making more than the goal.
Tim Ristow:That's great.
Angie Goeke:Yeah, it was. I was sitting at our kitchen table for that entire 10 hours like texting people, emailing people, calling people.
Tim Ristow:You're not just sitting there watching the computer. You're active during that whole process, aren't you? Yeah?
Angie Goeke:It is a ton of work and asking people to give is hard. For me it's not a comfortable feeling. You know what I mean.
Tim Ristow:Well then, on the flip side, then, after you've got it done, the rewards, even those that don't necessarily quote unquote cost, but it costs you time. You have to do the performances and stuff like that. Is that a challenge, then, after the fact too, to fulfill all of that?
Angie Goeke:Yeah, and I think some of that is just staying on top of it. I mean, you're doing all this work and you're doing less work, and then you make the goal and it's very easy to just oh, relax and kind of like yeah, I think I'm done. Staying on top of it to fulfill those rewards is hard. It just becomes a part of the puzzle. It has to be done.
Tim Ristow:Let's talk about the streaming side of things. I remember while back you had shared on social media a little bit at one point about some of the frustrations of how artists aren't fairly compensated and I've heard this a lot from a lot of different artists before too. This is kind of a common thing, but whether it's iTunes or whatever the streaming platform may be, getting compensated for your work is pretty minimal through these platforms. Right, talk to me a little bit about that, because you've learned about that side of things too that a lot of others may not know about.
Angie Goeke:Streaming an artist makes fractions of a penny on one stream. You've got to get millions of streams to even get close to a number that could potentially be not require you to have to have another job or two on the side. It is the way that it is, like there's not a whole lot as artists that we can do about it, and so it just requires there to be a whole another layer to the business. And I've had to look at my music endeavors as I'm starting a business, because it costs a lot of money to make a record, it costs a lot of money to produce this stuff, and so just getting creative with other products and how can I sell merchandise at shows or online, because just selling the music on streaming isn't gonna make it. And even I think artists are also not everywhere but under compensated for even live music. The whole adage about like well, you're getting exposure.
Tim Ristow:Free promotion, free promotion.
Angie Goeke:That's probably the most insulting thing you could ever say to a professional musician or artist. It's hours of practice, hours of work, hours of creating and writing. If I usually play out with a guitarist or if I have a full band, like I gotta pay those guys. This is their meat and potatoes, it's feeding them and so it's just a nobody's in it. To make money, I guess, is my point?
Tim Ristow:Yeah, and too often, as you mentioned or alluded to, it's accepted that way by others too, as opposed to compensating artists for what they're worth.
Angie Goeke:Yeah, just simply thinking about the amount of consumption of music and one person's daily life. Even if they don't turn on the radio in the car, even if they're not streaming music, they're going to the grocery store and consuming music while they shop Any department store right, there's music. If they go home and watch TV, if they watch Netflix, there's music and all of that stuff right. And so I think understanding how much the average person, whether they are a live music fan or you know right, they don't listen to music for a hobby or enjoyment they are still consuming.
Tim Ristow:Yeah.
Angie Goeke:My product. So at what point? Then, do we get compensated for that? You know.
Tim Ristow:Exactly. And yet is streaming kind of. Do you need it kind of, or is that something? Even your evaluation? Is it necessary for promotion? How necessary is streaming to an artist?
Angie Goeke:It's important, very important. Same with social media, social media numbers. It is hard to get booked for a gig if you don't have a certain social media following, if you don't have a certain number of streams online, and this is without anybody ever listening to your music. They won't listen to your music until you have those numbers right. And so how do you get there If you can't get the gigs? You know, how do you? I think it's something that every kind of emerging independent artist struggles with.
Tim Ristow:Well, thanks for sharing about all that Cause I think a lot of people will be interested to be able to hear and just know that they're not alone too. I'm sure there's many others in the same position. ["singers, songswriters and Christian Creative Angie Geikey"]. Singer, songwriter and Christian creative Angie Geikey is talking with me today on creative Christians. You're creative in more ways than one. You're a visual artist. I know you've done painting and drawing. Is that correct? And you've also written a novel a girl and her war horse correct? Creative in a number of different ways. You're a creative in several different modes and means and methods. Tell me about those aspects of your creativity too, and how those are a part of you.
Angie Goeke:Well, the book is just a really random thing. It happened to come about from counseling sessions where the counselor said you should journal and all this kind of stuff, and so I spent a year journaling and reflecting and handed it to her, kind of like I did my homework. Here it is. And then, about a week later, she called me and asked if I'd be willing to share it in book form. So that's kind of how that all happened. I don't even consider myself a writer because, like I don't know if I would ever sit down and write another book. It was definitely that season and that time and place kind of thing. As far as visual art, that is definitely therapeutic for me. I have to do it at least once a week. I can tell when I have it in my just demeanor towards other people and my general disposition changes.
Tim Ristow:What media do you work with? Tell us a little about that, and what do you create?
Angie Goeke:Well, I like to do a lot of watercolor and a lot of just kind of free drawing like Zentangle, basically doodling. I do like to do some ceramics also. That just takes more time and more space. So I teach art middle school art part time, so I get to kind of use that as a way to-.
Tim Ristow:Express yourself.
Angie Goeke:I express myself and engage in that and it's fun.
Tim Ristow:You've talked a lot about your experiences here in music and creating music. What's maybe kind of an overarching word of advice that you can give to other Christian creatives who are listening today, either about music specifically or just about expressing your faith through your creativity. What are some words of wisdom you might have to share with our listeners?
Angie Goeke:Well, I think what's been pivotal for me is that conversation that I had with that counselor that God is not interested in using your gifts and squeezing you out like a sponge. He gave you those gifts for the betterment of the world, and that means joy and happiness. And Jesus said he came so that we can have life and have it to the fullest, and that's part of being creative. Does that mean other people will see Jesus through that? Probably that's just gonna be a natural byproduct, right? I don't know. My advice would be not to get so fixated on that being the end goal and to just be in the moment and enjoy it and be thankful.
Tim Ristow:Are you gonna play a little tune for us today? I can sure that would be awesome. We're gonna have you play us out of the show today, so what song are you gonna sing for us today?
Angie Goeke:I don't know yet. I've been trying to narrow it down. It'll be a surprise.
Tim Ristow:Well then, I'm gonna turn it over to you here in a second, and this is Angie Geike singing a mystery song. Yeah, ["Candlelight"].
Angie Goeke:The candlelight is dimmed. In glow, the stars and moon call me home, the crickets hum their goodnight song, the shadows tread and play along, I don't know how to end. Follow the sun behind us bent, and then again the day is over. Night has come. Its gentle kiss Keeps till dawn To say goodbye Ways my heart into the depths Sweeped sorrows part. I'll store it all fragrant inside. Till tomorrow Shines its light. I don't know how to end. Follow the sun behind us bent, and then again the day is over. Night has come, its gentle kiss Keeps till dawn. ["candlelight"] To say goodbye Ways my heart into the depths Sweeped sorrows part. I'll store it all fragrant inside. Till tomorrow shines its light.
Tim Ristow:As Angie finished singing Farewell, a song she closes her live shows with, I looked up from monitoring the recording. There were tears in her eyes. On January 7th 2024, angie's father, theodore Zock, passed away. She had just attended the funeral for her father four days before we recorded this interview and song. Had she been singing Farewell to her father? I had offered to reschedule our interview, but Angie, true to her dedicated spirit, said she wanted to keep the day to schedule. It would be good to get back to work. She told me Angie's favorite Eleanor Roosevelt, a tribute to saying, came back to me. A woman is like a tea bag you never know how strong they are until they're in hot water. Indeed, angie Gakey is an inspiration to us in her strength, her faith, her creativity, her music, certainly through all the gifts God has graciously blessed her with to share with us. I know her father would be proud. I'd like to dedicate this episode of Creative Christians to Ted Zock, who passed away at age 87 on January 7th 2024. Professor Zock, as many of us former Concordia Lutheran College of Texas students knew him, was a kind, gentle spirit who loved teaching. I had the opportunity to take a geology class with him while at Concordia and his passion for all things rocks was very apparent. But Ted was also a creative. He loved music. He played the organ, was a choir director and had been a director of theatrical dramas and musicals at several Lutheran schools. To Professor Ted Zock, god's blessings and from all of us here at Creative Christians, our thoughts and prayers are with Angie and all of her family. Bye. Well, let's find out how to order her book A Girl and Her War Horse. Much of the music you heard in today's episode are samples of tracks from Angie's albums, both her EP Nautz and her full length album. If I Were Honest, I'd highly recommend you checking them out on iTunes, spotify and so many other streaming platforms. I'd also encourage you to check out one of her live shows If you do tell what you found out about her here on Creative Christians. If you haven't yet, be sure to subscribe to Creative Christians to catch each and every new episode of the show. I'd really appreciate it if, after listening, you'd take a moment to rate the show. Helps me to gauge feedback and in rankings for the show. If you're really feeling generous, a brief review is always appreciated as well. Let me and others know what you like about Creative Christians. You can also email me directly with your feedback, comments or questions at tim at timristocom. I'd love to hear from you. I'm Tim Risto. Until next time, stay creative and stay in God's Word. Blessings. ["the Greatest God in the World"]. Creative Christians is produced by yours truly, tim Risto. Special thanks to my guest, angie Gehke and Angie Gehke Music. As always, a shout out to my lovely and supportive wife, tracy Risto. Creative Christians is an audio production of Tim Risto Productions. Visit timristocom to learn more. That's T-I-M-R-I-S-T-O-Wcom. ["the Greatest God in the World"].
