#18: Dwayne Hildreth on Coming to Center

Intro: 0:02

Welcome to creative spirits unleashed where we talk about the dilemmas of balancing work and life. And now, here's your host, Lynn Carnes.

Lynn: 0:19

Welcome to the creative spirits unleashed podcast. I'm Lynn Carnes, your host. Today I am speaking with Dwayne Hildreth. Dwyane was a 30 year Nike executive, a place that he calls in this podcast, sort of like working for Disney. Because it's the kind of place everybody wants to work because you get to rub elbows with the likes of Michael Jordan, or Johnny Manziel, or so forth, as he talks about a little bit in this podcast. But what we're really talking about on this podcast is balance and harmony, especially harmony, listening to Dwayne before he even talks about being a musician, you almost know he has to be a musician. Because of the way he sees the the synchronicity of the world. But he also is a passionate horse lover, someone who came into the cow horse reigning, national cow horse reigning disciplines, fairly late in life, but is working at it at a highly competitive level, he is very interested in being very good at it. We just had such a good fight, you know, far ranging conversation about a lot of really interesting topics. And the thing that struck me the most in this conversation, is how he has learned to and is continuing to learn to balance, sort of performance with following his heart. You'll learn a lot about some of the challenges and excitements he had in working for Nike and how he blends that knowledge into his endeavors today. So I really hope you'll enjoy this conversation. As always, I want to let you know that if you have comments or questions, you can go to my website at Lynn Carnes calm. And there's a little voicemail button right there on the podcast page, where you can click the button and send me a voice message and I will answer your questions or share your comments with our guests as we have them on the podcast. Thank you for listening. And if you love this podcast, be sure to share it with friends. Dwayne, welcome to the podcast.

Dwayne: 2:34

Hello, Lynn. And thank you very much. I really appreciate it.

Lynn: 2:37

I am so glad that we are getting to do this because I follow you on Facebook. Of course we're friends we've met each other through the horse world. Yeah, um, you posted something maybe two days ago. That blew me away. So I have to know this and you have a lot of pictures you're posting. So right now you don't even know which one I'm talking about. I want to hear how you decided it was a good idea to stand up in a Roman riding style. On the back of both of your horses which are twins. Well, I could not your horses are che is it chance and Jagger Do I have that right,

Dwayne: 3:19

Gregor? Yeah, you got that? Right. They

Lynn: 3:20

are identical. palominos I'm sure to a father like you. You can tell them apart. But somebody like me. I can't.

Dwayne: 3:26

So I can't do it. Man, you threw me a curveball.

Lynn: 3:30

All right. So I need to hear the story behind the story. All the way down to the horse's brain because you It takes a lot of trust to stand on the back of a horse and I think you had your hands on your hips. I did. So that means that you were not holding reins. Nobody was holding those horses. Somebody else I think might have been holding the camera but okay. I'm gonna be quiet.

Dwayne: 3:54

You gotta put the picture. We're overachievers. Just kidding. No.

Lynn: 4:01

Okay, okay. All right. What happened? How'd you do that? All right,

Dwayne: 4:05

let me see if I can. So I think you know, you know, my horse is our board and trained in south of here about four hours in Montgomery at a friend of mine named Troy keel. He owns Troy keel performance horses. And we've been friends for a long time. And he also ran one of the palominos. so to the degree that I can get down there and ride on a consistent basis, I'll once or twice a month I'll go down for like four or five days, this time when I went down. You know much of what the work that we do, Lin is always in arena working on those skills that are needed for the competition's that we're in, which is raining cow horses, a lot of circles, a lot of spans a lot of stops, and then actually work in the cow very, very rarely do we get a chance to just go out in the pasture and just ride which is good as you know, for the horses mindset. So this particular day, I said hey man, I just I just want to go Just finished riding hard in the rain. So let's go out in the field, I want to take some video of just my horse is just galloping around. And Troy's kind of mischievious He's always, if there's anyone that can make me do something I shouldn't be doing. It's him now, but he did it too. He just, I just didn't post his picture because his wife probably would have killed me. But, um, we went out there and I, you know, after I'd written both of the horses around the circle a little bit, he goes, Okay, now here's, here's something that we can do. And I said, I'm not gonna do it. Unless you do it. He goes, I'll do it. So how we got the horses are different. We're buddies. First of all, they start they're soul mates, they play next to each other. And they get along, okay, probably will want to start another one to kill them. But they get along just like true brothers. And they don't have the same damn or sire. So we put them together. And the trick was, I guess I'm because again, I had no plans on doing this until he said, that'll look really cool. And so, and I've done so many things. I've gotten injured on things that I thought was really cool, like, rollerblading down the Ozark Mountains, mountains, but just doing it. So I caught up in the saddle and chance. And he stood there. And Jagger was standing right next to him, put the reins around the horn and stood on Jagger, and that the exit plan was if they bolt, you jump backwards, which I like told me to jump back with I guess that's the thing for people who decide to do something like this. But he says if they vote you go backwards. And I didn't even know if I had a choice at that time. But I just stood up in this and they were surprisingly still I didn't know what to expect land and I never gave it a second thought like this is foolish. You shouldn't be doing this. You're gonna die. I just did it. And I'm stood there. And actually, I was there for better part of 2530 seconds. They didn't they never move. They just stood there. I wish I could have gotten gotten their heads in the ears to the grill pretty because here's what kind of pans like, Dude, this is not what we

Lynn: 7:01

always tell the story. Yeah.

Dwayne: 7:03

Yeah, the ears are like, you know, you may look cool. But we're not going to make you look that cool, because we're not happy with this. And so I have a student students that will and I thought if I'm up here, I might as well act like Tarzan or something. So I put the hands on the hips just to kind of show conquering or whatever. I don't know, we're just, we're just having fun. And he took the pictures. And there is the story. Of course, I had to hear from my mother and my aunts and everybody else afterwards. About Where are you? Why are you doing this? Get down before you hurt yourself? All the usual stuff you would hear after saying something like that?

Lynn: 7:35

Yeah, of course. Well, and that there's so much to that because like, you know, first of all I loved I think of it as the power pose, like Amy Cuddy talked about in her TED talk. I don't know if you saw that Ted Talk. But, you know, she's done a lot of a lot of research on how your body can lead your mind. Yeah. And, you know, I've actually had, like, we used to teach skiers to do that, like before you go out and ski stand in a confident pose. And if you think about it, you know, in your work with Nike, I'm sure you saw people that had that kind of body language. Like they come in, they put their hands behind their head like that. put their hands feet up, never be like, you know, and it's almost like your your body can help you act your way into a new way of thinking. Absolutely. So I loved that you pulled that pose off

Dwayne: 8:26

with it. It wasn't planned, it just kind of came natural. Because in my mind, I'm thinking if you're gonna do this, but you're squatting down, like you're about to grab the reins, because you're not really sure that totally goes against why you're doing it. Right. Right. Do it be bold, you know, go hard or go home.

Lynn: 8:42

Well, you know, it's funny, because you also said something that I thought was really interesting, because you did. You did go bold. And you said, I didn't think about that I could fall or this could happen. Or they could go you know, in other words, it sounds like your mind had the picture you wanted not the picture you didn't want.

Dwayne: 9:00

Right? Exactly. And I will tell you then that I've pretty much lived my life that way since I was a child, my anybody who knows me, my parents and then my sisters. I was kind of a I don't wanna call it rebellious, but I would try just about anything. And then I would think about the consequences later. I'm thankful that I've been blessed not to have had major injuries but just like getting into horses to begin with. I think I told you the last time we spoke I didn't come into horses the conventional way. And we can talk about that later. But I went from basically nothing to perform. Like there was no rats and you're five years old, take a lesson. I just jumped at it. Because that's what I was exposed to it. I just thought that's what it was. So I'm now learning that there's a lot more that goes into that. But I really don't have any I mean, I've come off horses I've been stepped on and hid but it and I just because I love it so much because I have drive and this competitiveness to do well at the sport. It's what keeps me going and it's Standing on their backs, really, for me was kind of a telltale defining moment for me individually because I don't get to spend that much time with them. And I don't know if I build trust with them or not. I'm not a fool enough to believe that, you know, they, they just fit on their best foot by doing that. But obviously, they didn't vote, you know, they didn't, they felt comfortable enough for me to do it. And then we went on about our business. So it was it was fun. You know, it was fun.

Lynn: 10:30

Well, you know, when I talk to you, and I both follow Warwick Schiller, in the horse world, and for those of you that are listening, he's in Australia, and he lives in California now. But he's an Australian that posts videos about how to connect with your horse. And he takes a real different approach than a lot of horse trainers. It's more like the kind of approach you're talking about where you're building trust and connection. And when I talked to him, we did our podcast, I guess, back in May he, he was very clear that your mind has to be clear when you are working with a horse, because they will pick up your thoughts. And if you're thinking dreadful thoughts, you're going to get a dreadful action, because that's the picture you have. Um, but I actually had to kind of learn that through my horse work, I've come to horses a lot, like you did, like, I didn't come at it. I had a lifelong love, but not lifelong exposure to them. Right? You, you did this your whole life. So how, like, when did you start becoming aware that you had the kind of mind that focused on what you wanted, instead of what could happen? nursery school? kindergarten, that's amazing.

Dwayne: 11:48

Yeah, but I will say, I didn't realize that I had it until here recently, then, I mean, so if I, if I look back and see some of the things that I did, and situations, like I got myself into, that's why I can tell you definitively it's been pretty much all my life, but to actually recognize that I had that, and, you know, kind of aligning My, my, you know, reflection reflecting back and kind of knowing Yeah, I've been doing this, I really only recognize it here within the last few years. Part of it, you know, has been, you know, again, this, this, this come in, coming into the horse world part was the music, you know, and then part of it is just, uh, you know, some of the photography and some of the things that I've been posting, I don't, you know, this whole storytelling aspect. Yeah. That that FF started to really like, and enjoy. That's the, that's the other thing. So, um, yeah, and, and again, when I, when I look back at high school and grade school, I always want to be the fastest in the class. And if I wasn't, I would work hard. So that I became that I remember, my high school coach telling me back in high school, when I was a junior, I looked at the state record, in the school record in the hurdles, and he basically told me, You will never get it, you it was set by such it was, it was set the year that was born. And I won't mention that here. And it had stayed that way, all that time. So I told myself that day, I'm gonna break this record, I'm going to make it to the state meet, and I'm going to break this record in a state meeting I did. So from that, and in college, and then, you know, been on the swim team and all that stuff. And then, you know, been a personal trainer, and just just things that I had not planned to do. It just, they just came into my life moment in time that came into my life. And I just said, that looks cool. Let me try that. It doesn't always work out. But I go into it with kind of a no fear, you can do this attitude, I would have to attribute that to my parents, particularly my dad who passed away two years ago, one of the things he would always tell us is you can be and do anything you want to be, he would always tell us that there was so there was no limit limitations on what we could do. He had structured in terms of, I want you to go to college, I want you to do this, I want you to be prepared for life, you know, after school, and to be able to support yourself, but don't limit yourself by thinking that you can't do anything. And I think a lot of that has to do with it. So um, yeah. And I

Lynn: 14:18

was, I was just curious about your dad, because it sounds like he not only mentioned it, but I'm guessing he also lived it. Can you think of ways that you saw him live that?

Dwayne: 14:32

It I can think of a lot of ways both hand my mother and mother actually still doing it. But my dad grew up, lost his mother at an early age like three and his dad was working a lot. So he sent my father down to live with his aunt and uncle in New Orleans. So you know, he kind of grew up without you know that the father figure except for what my uncle provided for him. But he kind of lived the life of the streets. He had to learn on the streets really quick and he had a younger sister. So He wasn't able to continue continue Haskell, he had to go off to the service to to fault the Korean War. And he came back and he got his GED, put a sister to school. And he went on a graduated, got his master's. And both my parents and the four of us moved to East Lansing, Michigan, and they got their doctorate degrees, my dad in mechanical engineering, my mother, and a child development and family studies. And they went on to have really, really good, phenomenal careers in higher ed. My dad had sudden University and my mother at a variety of different schools, one of which is University of Kentucky, and Lexington, LSU, University of North Texas, Texas women University, Oregon State, she's had stints at all those different university goodness, he does Associate Dean are a full professor, my oldest sister is following her footsteps. and is now the provost at the University of North Texas here in Denton. And my mother recently retired seven years ago, six years ago, but she stays active. She's in real estate. And she she just and her mother was like that. So I getting back to your original question. Yeah, my dad kind of grew up that way. And so we lead by example. They never said, watch us, we'll do this, we'll do that. They just did it. And it became an expectation for us without being hammered. And if we didn't know anything else to do, but what they were doing and so that's what we did. Now, I would say as a child, some of the things I want to get into my mother had to keep GOT GOT guardrails on

Lynn: 16:32

I can imagine.

Dwayne: 16:33

Yeah, you know, they would expose him to things like, okay, you want to do judo, okay? You know, do you want to go do you know, as long as our grades were, were in line with where they felt they should be, we were allowed to pursue anything that we really wanted to do. My mother grew up on a farm with seven sisters and brothers. So horses and cows and livestock to them was for work out of necessity, it wasn't like a play thing, or for enjoyment, or for performance. And so I had to kick them scream until somebody bought me a pony. And I was like, eight, nine years old, I wrote that thing into my feet broke the ground in high school, but, um, that was really just to keep my mouth shut. It was not like someone took me under the wing and said, Hey, let me show you how to ride horses again. mules and horses to my parents were symbols of work. And, and that when you finish work, and you put them up and go inside, and so, um, but but my, my grandmother would tell me all the time that she feels like, I got my love from horses from my great grandfather, who I never met, but my understanding is that he was a pretty accomplished horseman. He rode horses everywhere. Now, I don't know if that can be passed down to blood or whatever. But I have pictures of him riding and he actually killed on a horse. And so I don't know, that's kind of a little bit of the whole story. But yes, I did. I did get that tenacity and Kansas spirit from from both parents, but particularly my dad, you know, been the only son of four children. So Yep.

Lynn: 17:57

Yeah. Well, the it just strikes me is so powerful to be able to focus on what you want, versus what you don't want and have that, you know, a lot of people call it grit, but to keep coming back after it, and I don't think that comes to us accidentally, I think we either get it in spite of our parents or because of our parents to some degree. I would agree with that. wholeheartedly. Yeah, and it sounds like in your case, it was because of your parents.

Dwayne: 18:23

Absolutely. And, and, and extended family as well. I mean, I the story I just told you about my parents, I would say is appropriate and fitting for my aunts. And everybody kind of follow that same path, which is unfortunate. It's not like I ever took it for granted, I knew that I had, you know, kind of a special unique family, especially, you know, when you go off to school, and you are in the dorm, and you start to meet people outside of your little circle, and you have questions about how they were brought up. I just kind of felt naivety or whatever, that everybody kind of grew up like I did until you become an adult. And I realized that no way it happened at all. So I've I've never taken it for granted. I've always cherished it, but it's also also become an expectation. So you know, it has helped me to know that I mean, in all aspects of my life, like you know, nothing's going to be given to you, you know, you have to work hard to keep you know, keep your eyes open for opportunity. And my dad used to always say it's not who you know is who knows you back and I've carried that like and when I tell people that they're like I'm never heard that but that makes sense. And I was like, You know what, it does make sense. I mean, you can meet a lot of people and know a lot of people but those people don't know you back

Lynn: 19:33

and describe what that means to you know, you back I have a theory but tell me what you really mean by that.

Dwayne: 19:39

So, you know, there's there's there's zero there's 10 and then there's five and I believe in every relationship and every interaction every engagement someone's putting a little bit more try into that to that scenario. And so I mean, as you can use social media is one of it all I have this many friends I know this many people it's like oh, Do you really know those people? And by know them? What does that mean? Have you developed a contact with them that to use them anyway? But what value are you bringing to that person's life? Or what value are they bringing to your so I would say particularly in in the business world, where contacts and networking is paramount to success, you, if you say I know this person, then there may be a third entity that is saying, Okay, can you bridge a gap? For me? That person wants a decision? And if you don't, then that person is really kind of an acquaintance. I mean, and so. And that's, that's one aspect. The other the other one, you can take it personally, like, you know, you may know that person, do they know you back? Have they invested the time to really know who you are? As opposed to you're chasing them trying to figure out what they're doing? You know what I mean? Yeah, so I try to live by that mantra, you know, it's not who you know, it's who is who knows your back? Like, do they value you like you value though? I guess in a nutshell.

Lynn: 20:56

Yeah. Yeah, it does. I mean, like, what I'm hearing I, the language I've used with it is, is am I having a rich exchange with this person, as opposed to just being in a transactional relationship. And I was just having this conversation earlier today with one of my fellow coaches who we were talking about, you know, the way we stayed in touch with each other and with other people over the years. And, you know, sometimes the regret of not having stayed in touch with other people that really meant a lot to me at different parts of my life. And I'm curious, because there is a multiplicity over time when we develop those kind of relationships, where you're carrying a lot of people, you know, and I don't mean carrying, carrying, but that you're, that you're caring for. And, and I've noticed, you know, we started this conversation with social media posts that you put up on the Roman writing of your two palominos. But I think there were, you know, over 100 comments, and you commented back to everybody, something, you know, not just kind of canned like, it comes through when you interact that you're there. It's not an automatic, like, canned response.

Dwayne: 22:06

And again, I don't know if I make it a goal to respond everyone the other posts that I put I don't know if you saw it, but it's the one you may not have seen it, but it's a The day after that.

Lynn: 22:18

It it a storm. We still we ride post, I did see that.

Dwayne: 22:23

Yeah. I don't know where I get that stuff from. It just comes with a look at the photo. Now I will tell you, part of it was stage not because I said, Hey, take this photo right here, I'm taking a series of photos for a project that I'm working on. So but a man that I was riding with happened to take that photo, and show him my buddy's mother buddies arena. And the clouds were I mean, it was dawn. And it was very, very cold. And so if, if I had the luxury of riding every day with an arena right outside my house, I probably would have skipped it. Yeah. But knowing that I had driven for hours to ride for three days, and then I have some shows coming up. I'm like, I gotta ride. And it was a chance for me to see how the horse would react in adverse weather conditions. So the wind was howling. I mean, it was cold. I mean, cold. And I mean, I couldn't feel my hands. But, you know, went down there. And you know, he's a little spooky at the beginning. But we wrote it, we had a good time. And so when I looked at the picture, I was like, wow, and I saw the storm clouds. I was like, you know, and then but the analogy, or I guess the parallel that would draw from that is, if you look at what's going on not to get political. But if you look what's going on in our world right now, I try to post things that are inspiring to other people. But what a lot of people don't realize is that most of the time, I'm trying to inspire myself. You know, I mean, I'm trying to inspire myself. And so if someone gets something out of it, I try to comment, because it goes back to what you're saying is like, if they take the time to comment, like, wow, this helped me Oh, thanks for the post or something like that. The first thing he tells me is they've been flipping through Facebook, and they don't really see anything positive, or they wouldn't be telling me that.

Lynn: 23:53

That's right. So that's one

Dwayne: 23:55

thing. And the second thing is they took the time to say thank you. It's not like I'm trying to win a popularity contest. But this, I don't know what's going on that person's life. But if they took the time to say, Wow, this helped me today, but I'm not whatever I'm like, Hey, cool, you know, smiley face, thumbs up, whatever. And so, I will tell you that that kind of thing, whatever you want to call it really just started happening. Like, right when I was talking about the Nike thing, right? When I stopped focusing on corporate america and driving what I thought was going to be my identify, identification, to truly looking at who I am as a person. And I would say if there's any regret, or things that I wish I could do over was recognizing the value to your point earlier, of who I was as a person, not tied to a specific thing. Yeah. Does that make sense? Oh,

Lynn: 24:46

yeah. 100% and, yeah, you know, I have so many questions, so many places we could go but, but Nike, you so you were in Nike for 30 years. 30 years. Yeah, and I have lots of questions about that. But the question about the whole corporate america thing, let's just lead off with what you just said. And it, there's I heard under what you said, almost, if I knew then what I know now. Right? kind of mindset. So what would it be that you wish you could have known then? And is it even possible to know that when you're in the throes of corporate life?

Dwayne: 25:29

I would say it depends. And I'll explain what I mean by that. So the first one is, you know, if you knew then what you wish you knew, then what you know, now, I'll speak to that a little bit, for me. And I would say that this would be appropriate for a lot of people in corporate America who start off at your early 20s, mid 20s, and they go to a job. Nike happens to be one of those jobs that like Disneyland or ESPN, everybody wants to be there, because it's Nike. And that's

Lynn: 25:55

where Michael was next.

Dwayne: 25:57

So you got to feel like some some aspects, it was Disney World, I mean, we, I had a lot of fun, I got a chance to do a lot of things and meet some amazing people in, but it's still corporate America. And at the end of the day, you're an employee, and they're going to compensate you for doing a thing for doing a job. And I had over eight over 10 jobs with Nike, during my during the course of my career, and moved eight or nine different times. Um, and I would say that in my job, which was primarily sales, that was most of my career, you're selling a widget. It's a cool widget, but it's a widget against another widget Adidas Under Armour down the line. And Nike is a marketing behemoth. Some people say, why would you need sales? It sells itself. You got Michael Jordan, you have Tiger Woods, you have whatever I'm talking about LeBron. Yeah. Yeah. And so but that was not necessarily the case. Sometimes you have to call it portfolio management, we're not interested in selling mass market. We didn't put our product in Walmart, we didn't put our product in a lot of stores, because then it would become commonplace, and no one would want it. So there's a there's a give, get to the strategy of marketplace management. And so selling is not necessarily how much you sell, it's selling the right amount of product to the right place at the right time to the right consumer. And that's how you did so that was, you know, primarily what we did. And during the course of that time, it's never enough, right? There's a reason we're number one. So what have you done for me lately? What have you done for me, like who always pushed me frame, I'm not on social media posting pictures of me standing on horses or, and that stuff is a problem for that, right. So I'm just doing that at the same time, then you get what we'll get to the music, I knew that I had a gift from God, which was called music. And I've known that for the better part of 20 years now. 25 years, I know for sure that I have not maximized that gift, I can tell you unequivocally I have not. Um, because during the course of that time, I've dabbled in it come out of it. Because I was too afraid to jump. Looking at most artists, most musicians and kind of the lives that they lead and what it takes to really making and if you make it mean, it means two things. Number one, somebody respects you as a musician, you've done something you've won, you know, a Grammy, you've won something, you're on TV, you're doing something you've recorded a you know, platinum album. But it can also mean you can support your family and support yourself and have enough income to live the way you want to live for the balance, however long that is. And I just never really felt personally comfortable with making that jump. So I didn't. But I would always have these opportunities to play with people, especially in jazz that I marveled at when I was a kid. And I'm like, I'm on stage with this person. How does this work? I have all these CDs and he's playing my music What? And I never really stopped to realize it because I was in the moment at the time. Now when I look back 10 years ago and look at pictures and videos and something like he played on my album that amazing. Yeah, I've never had released so that's a whole nother story. Oh, yeah. So the music thing is kind of a an anomaly because I but I bring it up at this point in our conversation because it was one of those things that if I had been more in tune to my true heart my feeling I probably would have spent more time with music but it would have come at a at a cost when you're a manager or a director for me at one point I had 1516 employees um, when you include you know the marketing people in the admin stuff like that, and then you also report up right yeah, so you have to you know, your numbers have to be there your relationships with accounts have to be there. You name it,

Lynn: 29:34

and reputation.

Dwayne: 29:36

Absolutely all that and then again, it's you're chasing because and who breaking records all the time and no matter how many reps of the year agency of the year, I want you to have a little bank with they have a little something and then you move to the next thing. But the most rewarding moments for me had nothing to do with my job at all at Nike i a hurricane katrina 2005 or

Lynn: 29:58

2005. I remember it very You know,

Dwayne: 30:01

at that time then I had just taken a job as apparel sales manager for the South based in Miami. We had an office in Miami and I was the, the apparel guy for the whole South region, which included Florida and all the salaries. If you think about Mississippi other well, Katrina happened during that time. And because our office, the South office was based in Miami, we were given instructions to Hey, we need a team of you guys to go to New Orleans and figure out how Nike can make a difference in that community because New Orleans fell under Louisiana fell under our tutelage. Right? So my director at the time, she saw to it she saw fit for me to be involved when I normally would not have been involved with that, because I'm so Hmm, this was a marketing thing. But she came to me, she goes lane, we know you're from Louisiana. And that, you know, your dad has roots there and grew up in New Orleans. And so we'd love for you to be a part of this. Well, I couldn't have been happier than because to be honest with you, that was who I was sales was just something I did. On the back of my career had I had a really focused, I would have gone into marketing, just like that. Yeah, but sales was working for me, I was good at it. So I did it. So I'm just to make a long story short, I, we gathered a team, kind of on the ground team. And we, we went down in New Orleans, I called ahead of time call some of my friends who had gone to high school with and stuff, they met me there. And they kind of toured us around the city of New Orleans garrison and to meet some of the city officials and you know, some of the superintendents and the athletic directors, because Nike always addresses things through sport through that through the lens of sport. So it's not about hey, how many computers can we do here is, how many playgrounds? Can we help me build, for instance, and so those are we met with those people, and it took the better part of nine, nine months to get going. I mean, it wasn't like an overnight thing. We had to really go and see and touch and talk. I was part of I was proud to be a part of that team, because I was kind of leading because I knew more than they did. Yeah. What resulted from that land was what culminated from that was Nike was able to provide, you know, hundreds of 1000s of dollars to that effort through a video, and some campaign efforts that kind of live, so. And I'll send you I'll send you the video. But it really it's kind of a three minute presentation that pulls everything, some summarizes everything that we did. So it starts off with me playing a song that I had written for this piece.

Lynn: 32:29

Oh, really,

Dwayne: 32:31

I wrote this. Yeah. And I recorded it along with a young lady, I had played the saxophone, and it kind of fits the, the narrative. And I also narrated the piece, well, then that piece got sent to Nike, senior senior team, because they had to decide we've got a lot of things that have happened to the senior directors, it was kind of a thing where we had to decide which effort we're going to get after. And that was the one that they decided to based on the work that we've done in Miami as a team. And so every year, there's a sales meeting. And at that sales meeting, we highlight whatever that cause is. And for this, it was called let me play let me play as a campaign directed toward kids. And you know, if you build it, they will come. And so it was it was it was under that banner of work at Nike, so that we could fund it appropriately. But essentially, what ended up happening was we were able to fly up some very well known chefs out of New Orleans, who prepared all the food for the sales meeting. Wow, we bought in a band that I knew that was a very well known jazz fan out of New Orleans that I actually got to play with, wow. At the presentation, they flew my parents up, that was the proudest moment for me, and set them at the table with the president of sales and everything my dad couldn't have been more proud. And I am now thinking about it. But it was it was a special moment from a very special moment. So essentially, what we did was we gave that story to the entire Nike organization. And, you know, at that event they had whether we bid items that we like a, you know, a New Orleans Saints sign posted by Drew Brees, right football or something that was unique to New Orleans, all expense paid trip to New Orleans for Mardi Gras. And the sales people up in the in the confines of that party where there's food music going on, and people are bidding for these items. Right. So whatever we raised that night was matched by Nike corporately, and that is the funds that was used to help fund some of the things that are going on. So that to me, you talk about legacy moments. I was glad to be I mean, I didn't solely do it. But I was I think I was a huge catalyst and taking that taking place. had nothing to do with my job or anything. Being part of a team, so that was probably not probably that was my most memorable moment at Nike in the 30 years. And you know, there were there were others along the way, but that one was this one. So I go ahead.

Lynn: 34:57

I just was thinking about how great But you're, you've got to have your parents there. And, you know, the question that's rattling around in me, as you're talking about this, because you keep saying that wasn't my job. And yet, you know, here it is a corporation going in, obviously, for good marketing reasons, but they did a lot of good. Um, you know, I just always think about the dichotomy of life in corporate America. And, you know, it ranges from people feeling almost like they're in a grind that feels almost like corporate slavery, if you will, like, it's, it's just, I'm here for the buck. And they, they kind of own me, too, I'm regularly doing my work, the work that I'm here to do, and, and that has nothing to do with a company, which gets, you know, the other side of that, that doesn't work. So somewhere in the middle things like there's a place. And my question for you is, do you think it's possible for an organization like that to have a heart? Or does it? Or is it just the combination of the people within its hearts like yours, like what you brought to that project?

Dwayne: 36:02

I think for me, it is. And from what I've observed, and was particularly the last few years at Nike, it is the people make the company, whether they tell you, whether the company tells you that or not. It's true. So you know, I won't speak for the company, just my experience, I do think that Nike do does a lot and did a lot and continues to do a lot in communities. That, you know, it's a company that values people from different walks of life. You know, if you think about the, the Tonya Harding thing, and all that, like Nike kind of is the underdog approach, and wants to give everyone a chance, at the same time, it is a company, they make decisions on what they need to make, to, you know, because they have to report the Wall Street. And so, you know, you have to realize at the end of the day, that, you know, you know, you you're there to provide, you know, service and in so doing, you know, I think Nike did a great job of trying to make the employees give them a sense of family and give them a sense of enjoyment. So if you ever wanted at Campus, I mean, it's beautiful, I mean, it, I can't even tell you 30 plus acres of just nothing but enormous buildings with glass fronts, and to state of the art fitness centers and Olympic sized swimming pool and unit I mean, you can get your hair cut, get your laundry done late deer and rabbits run around. I mean, it's, it was it was that type of place, and then there's nothing to see Johnny Manziel, or Michael Georges walking right by you, you know, you're not supposed to say anything to him. It's that kind of place. And so, but the same time, you know, the shrewd decisions that had to be made. So I guess getting back to your question, for me, it was not whether or not a middle could exist, I think it's up to the individual to determine at what point, um, you have to have a balance, color balance, not not ever having been married him, no kids. My thing was Nike, right? You know, I ran and you know, and hiked and biked and skied and did all that stuff. But at the end of the day, you know, I did my job, I get paid for my job, I participate in those things. And I came home. I think if you have other things that distract you, you have to kind of prioritize, I'm going to soccer practice, my wife is whatever. And then you find that, I would say even more importantly than that now, after those 30 years, and they went by really quick, when I say that should have could have would have if I had known things like the horses, things like the music, just because we don't we don't get to stay here forever. I would have I would have liked to have done those things earlier in my life. Seeing how much I enjoy them. Now the horse thing in particular, yeah. But you don't realize that when you're not, you know, when you're doing something else. And so it's an interesting thing, because I think also the 30 years at Nike allowed me to be able to do this lifestyle, too. So it kind of goes hand in hand, right? I mean, and so and so. But I just kind of you don't know until you know, so this may be unique because I don't know how many people you know, that worked for a company that didn't seem to happen these days. for 30 years. That's a long time. Yeah, my dad did my mom better but this day and age people skip around and do all these different job almost like Hitman, but I can truly truly speak to 30 years back so that's really all I knew there was no jumping from athletic company athletic company. So that's what my focus was but then when you raise your head up out of the pinwheel and America round and see all this going around you you like Wow, man, I wish I had nothing you know, cuz I I consider myself a people person, I can get in and mix with the best of them. And out of that comes opportunity. You just have to decide what you want your opportunity to be. So where I am now in that walk, man or that journey is now that I've found kind of my stride. I really see myself being involved in this Western horse industry. At a at a level. I don't say higher but different than just a competitor. Yeah, different than just an owner or whatever. I really I don't know what it is, but I feel comfortable in in this space. Right? Yeah. Well,

Lynn: 40:05

there's so much to this because, you know, people don't have to. We will we don't have to give away your age. But if you worked at Nike for 30 years, you're not. You're not coming out of college. You know, the people in the competitive world of nrca which is the, if you're doing writing cow horse is the entity that kind of oversees that and we'll have to explain what that is here in a minute. Just so people who are listening can imagine what the horses are doing what you're doing on the horses. But, but what strikes me I'm in you know, I'm really involved in waterskiing. I've also spent a fair bit of time in the nrha world I some of my coldest days were in the barn at silver spurs at their personal Oklahoma with us, Tiago and Trevor dare and watching my friend Jane aslani has several riding horses that compete. They actually are the people that took me on a four horse the first time after my horse fall. And I told him not to let go of the reins. I said you hold the reins, I'm just not confident right now. This was my beginning. But But what I know about sports like, you know, waterskiing or you know, rain cow horse or cutting horse or, or any kind of sport I know from trying Equestrian Center down the road for me. They're always trying to grow. And there's this tension between catering to the old guard people who've been in it forever who did it from the time they were a kid. In the waterskiing world I've not I'm good friends with a lot of people who started on waterscapes when they were five, I came to waterskiing at 46. So much later in life, but there's this hear we hear you and I are at you know, I'm 62 I don't mind saying starting up in the horse world myself, they probably have to learn to grow the sport need to learn how to bring more people in. Because it's a pyramid. And in the you know, in the marketing world, most of the money's actually made at the bottom of the pyramid, which are the non high level competitors, but not Andrea Pani, or, you know, so I don't know the names in the nrca world nearly as well of who that top level performers are. But the money is being made by the people coming into the sport. So I, I have to believe that somebody with your background 30 years of helping sell sport and sporting goods apparel, and, you know, goodwill, frankly, had would have a lot to offer in the in the cow horse world.

Dwayne: 42:47

You know, then I would hope so. And I would think you know it. While it's not impossible, I think strategically I have to position myself organically and authentically. And what I'm what I mean by that is, um, you know, I love the sport, but I love the horses for now. And we you know, in talking about Brook, USA, I think it's more to talk to you about that as well. But the love of the horses first. And it is real and authentic to me, because I've been doing it since I was a kid, I just didn't know it at the time. Once I got into it, because there's some people who love the idea of a horse, they go out and pet it and you know, whatever they may ride once, two, three years ago, back. But there's another level that non horse people just don't understand. Because it is it's not it's not particularly glamorous, it's hard. It's expensive, it's dangerous. It's all those things, right and you experience and so for me when I when I was exposed to this through through Troy, I'm grateful to him for that it exposed me and introduced me to a whole group of individuals who were actually interested in my story and interested in seeing me succeed at the score because I loved it. Right. up to your point. Um, and also, you kind of alluded to the fact of the people at the top kind of want to keep it at the top. I think, you know, when you start looking at the money, the resources and the efforts that it takes to reach that level, the majority of people don't have, you know, is that no horse ownership is, you know, it's

Lynn: 44:30

it's an escape chain catching, catching? Yeah, the cost of the horse, the least part?

Dwayne: 44:36

Right. And that's what people got hooked up and get hooked up. And so where the horses 1500 bucks or 60 65,000, they basically, even boop, and you got to take care of them, right? What makes the difference is how they're bred. And the ones that are best bred are usually owned by the people who can own them. And they keep that same circle going. So unless you can break into that circle barring a miracle You can pretty much bet that the plan is and those types of people are going to always be in at winter. So right. I mean, I don't blame them for but then I say, if we really wanted to expand that sport, and have other people have access to it for the joy of being in the sport, how does it happen? Yeah. I mean, how does that person introduce, I was fortunate enough to have a friend who did it, and who still does it. And I kind of got in that room, I wouldn't even known that NRC to exist, I wasn't paying attention to it. I my initial thought process was to buy a horse and go ride around like john wayne, like,

Lynn: 45:31

that's exactly how my friend Janice, Connie, and she said, Let's go get a couple of horses. They should be quarter horses. So you know, she just kind of automatically. And next thing she knew she was the owner of a couple of competitive riding horses.

Dwayne: 45:44

I wanted to be able to, even if that's what I wanted to do, and then next thing I know, I'm buying chaps. I'm buying expensive hats. I'm filling out on them. Like what? And so I mean, I just worked straight there. So now because of my competitiveness, I'm like, Yeah, right. Yeah. And I want to do, and so it's, it's, it's a lot coming. Me too. And so when I go back to saying I wish I had started earlier, I have to watch myself, man, because I'm because of my competitiveness. I never feel like I'm good enough. So I'm like, I'm looking at someone my age and maybe even younger, half my age winning and doing all these wonderful things. And I, I get pretty upset. I'm like, Man, I wish I had had I known I could be what they're doing now. But now that I have to kind of back up and say you are where you are, you cannot change that. You have to go forward from where you are. And you know, I'd have to be very transparent and honest with you. It's a struggle for me, not just the horse thing, but just life in general. Not thinking what I could have been but wanting to be there. And then you get to this, how much time do you have like realistically set a goal for yourself? You want to be a non pro? You want to be open to it? Right? What do you want to be right? And then how much time does it require? Do you have the revenue to do that? Is that really what you want? Or you just think you want it type of stuff. And so these people put a ton of time and yeah, to your point. So really quickly, for me, I won't set a goal on what level of rod I want to be right now. I think I want to enjoy the process. And you you know, because of the field of work that you're in, if you're not connected with that horse, and you're grinding, he or she is going to feel it. And it's counterproductive. So I try to keep those thoughts. Check those thoughts at the barn gate when I walk in and just try to enjoy the process. And I think I'll be able to do that even more and more effectively. Then once I have a horse as a mom.

Lynn: 47:30

That's gonna make it Yeah, four hours away is tough.

Dwayne: 47:33

Yeah. And in writing once or twice a month. So anyway, I back to your thing about you know, should it be an opportunity? I think that there is I haven't quite identified it, I still have to poke my head in a couple of circles. But what I see now is a bunch of people just enjoying what they do. Some of them don't even have homes, they ride around their RVs and a horse and they go from show to show. And that's life. I didn't even know that life existed. I mean, there's a whole world out there not not just Western. I'm sure they do it and just Yeah, but that's Yeah, it's like livius to the world around him. We want our horses and other Yorkie dogs and just leave us alone. And I'm like, I don't even know people did this, right. So it's fun. You know, I like sleeping horse trailers. I like mucking stalls. o'clock in the morning. And I like seeing smoke coming from a horse isn't nauseous when it's cold? Wow, I like horses.

Lynn: 48:22

I like the smell. There's nothing like the smell of horses. Oh my gosh.

Dwayne: 48:26

Except for the people who don't like the smell of horses. Right?

Lynn: 48:28

don't understand how you can not like I don't?

Dwayne: 48:30

I don't either, but it's a thing. Yeah. And and I'm moving. I'm aligned with that thing. So I know it's real, right? I'm not trying to force myself to do it. With all the things, the thing that you could call negatives around. Yeah, is still something that I want to do. So, um, I see myself being involved in engaged with that at, if it's a spokesperson, if it's marketing, if it's storytelling, whatever, you know, I see myself there and I think it's needed, they might not think it's needed.

Lynn: 49:01

Well, you know, it's the thing that you offer on top of all the other experience is that is you have new eyes. You know, for me when I came into the waterski world, and I'm having the same experience kind of in the horse world. It's sort of like you say the barriers to entry because you're at the

Dwayne: 49:18

right.

Lynn: 49:19

And people who've been in it for a long time. don't even remember what that is. Right? And you know, it's it's, it's kind of a an amazing thing, like the trainer that I work with Lynn Brown, we talk about things like leading a horse just putting a halter on and leading a horse. There is a thing to that you don't just do that, you know, you could you can go to the like I was the nrha futurity last year and there were 1003 Year Old Quarter horses in that barn. And they were all walking beautifully behind the person as they were walking them along. You don't realize what it takes to do that until you have a horse that isn't doing that right And she and I were talking about that. And I said, you know, what's great about you as a teacher is you start there, you don't just assume that and she actually starts from she had her standard is that you don't go catch a horse, you have the horse catch you. Because in her mind, the horse, the ride starts, the minute you put in your mind, in the presence of that horse that we're going to go ride. And every moment after that the horse is asking the question, are you going to leave? Are you the leader? Or am I the leader? Right, and you earn your leadership with them. So you know, the fact that you're at that place where you have the ability to see what it looks like for an entrant coming in, you see the big and little barriers to entry, and then learning how to, like draw people in and smooth that out, would bring new people into the world, you know, into the world. Now, here's the question I have, though. So you're, we've talked around this, a lot of people might be listening to this, that totally know what range cowboys is, and nrca che. But explain, it's like a three event. You know, it's three events in one in a way. And these are three very unique events. So just give a little rundown because you've chosen the sport that requires you to have cattle. And some of the sports only have the horse. But the big in the when you have cattle, not only does that add a whole new, unexpected factor to the game, because they have a little money, you know, this little animal has a mind of his own. But if you're gonna use them, play with them practice with them, you actually have to have them and you don't work with full grown cattle, you're working with calves, which means you have to constantly have a new supply of the right size of animal for your competition. So that's your TF to explain. Okay, tell, explain in RC, our rain cow horse and what those three events are, and what makes them so extreme. Right. So

Dwayne: 51:58

without getting a lot of detail. Obviously, there's an R ha and nrca, which is raining horse and rainy cow horse. I had a little bit of an advantage, I guess if you want to call it that, because I was never part of raining. I went straight into rainy castle, there was no comparison. It just was what it was right? It's raining cow horse. The horse it's all Western pleasure. But the horse is expected to execute a series of maneuvers arm that one might use in a working cow horse environment on a ranch right like that. So think I'm sprinting or galloping eloping to a fast stop. Okay, all throw in range means you know, you should, that horse should be finely tuned, in between those range. And you really do and a lot of that work with your legs showing total control. When I say control I use, I don't like the terminology of controlling a horse. But being in sync with that horse where he or she that horses is understanding your cues, very subtle cues to do what you're asking that horse to do. So I just found this out recently doing a range pattern. And most for the people listening you know that that's usually a series of figure eight types of patterns where you're doing big circles and wanting to wrinkle switching lead late, which is the horse delay that the horse is leading on and going into an another pattern on the other end of the arena. And then you know, coming to a stop spinning horse down the arena and coming to a stop all control spinning the horse in a tight circle where his head is in position with his body. And it's a cadence and enjoys in your ability to execute those moves. Now that's just one part of random calculus as you know, then, at the pro level, you're expected after you complete that, that routine, which is two and a half minutes, minute and a half, two and a half minutes to get that all done. You come to the middle of the arena, and you stop and you pause. And then at the end of it at the other end of the arena is the gate and their hands behind the gate you call for your cow they call it call for your motion to a cow hand behind there. And he he lets the calf out. And to your point yes to calves. But don't don't be fooled. They're fast. And some of it can be pretty rare, though. Your job at that point in time is to be able to demonstrate to the judge your horse you and your horses ability to work together to block or box that cat cow against the fence. So if you imagine, you know an arena and at the top of the arena, there's a fence that ties it to Yeah, long. You have to you have to box that collar against that fence. And seems easy enough, you know, to kind of stay in front of that car. But again, adding a cow to a maneuver adds another element. You dealing with yourself. You're dealing with the horse, and now you're dealing with an animal who just wants to get away. That's right. He's not. Yeah, he's not on your program he's trying to get away. And so your ability to kind of track that cow rate that cow and stop that. cow and have your horse really do the work. And that's what Troy kind of pounds in my head every day, you'd been judged on that horses ability to do it, if you're doing a lot of jerking with your hands, then isn't the horse is not doing it, you're making that horse do it, how have you developed in the relationship with your horse and working on horse to where he knows determine that cows turn and you're doing very little of the work. And so that's the other components. Now at the top level, not only do you learn that, you have to box them at one end, you then have to turn that cow what they call down the fence and there's a whole series behind it, there's a movie called down the fence. And that's where, you know, Ben Baldwin knows, even try some of the, you know, the level one, level two and security routers have to do that. And so basically, once you finish demonstrating that you can box that column and contain that cow against that fence, you then have to turn the cow down the fence, he takes off down the side of the fence, you then have to get behind him, run past him stop him. I mean, like at a dead stop, like on a diamond cauldon terms. And here's the other direction, you then have to go back and stop him again, against the fence where he turns and then he goes out to the middle of the arena, then you have to circle that car. So your horse is in sync. It's almost kind of like Swan dancing, you know or sing, you know, syncopation dancing in the pool. Yeah. Swimming where you're that cow goes you shadowing that cow. So you've been judged and your ability to stick to that Callen and turn that collar control it that lasts about 50 something seconds, and then why aren't blows. And so any mistake when you're docked points, and a very difficult to catch up when you're done those points, especially it's stiff competition. So I'm not to get too technical, but you started at 70. Yeah, but it starts with wondering at a 70. And you plus one plus two plus three, or you can mine US based on overspend if the horse misses is leading a change in the middle of a routine, if you lose the cow are not controlling the cost is a lot of variables and imagine me going from nothing, you know, basically a Shetland pony to this, there was no Eclipse. So I'm trying to, in addition to how do you put a bridle on a lead rope on? What do you feed them? All this stuff? How do you how do you tack a horse? When I when I bought my horse, I did not know how to take it. I just recently learned that I'm not embarrassed to tell you like this year.

Lynn: 57:22

I know I'm still every time I saddle a horse, you know, I ride a bunch of different horses with a lot of different saddles. I have somebody check me every single time now. And I don't know when I'm going to quit saying hey, can you just make sure this saddle looks good to you? Right, right, because

Dwayne: 57:35

You don't want to get hurt. And I don't blame you you know, and I think you know, he kind of goes back to this deal about the love of it. It was intriguing to me is not even so much the sport is it's walking in the barn and knowing that there's a beam that knows more about you than you know for yourself. It's intimidating.

Lynn: 57:52

Isn't that amazing?

Dwayne: 57:54

Yeah. And that that's what keeps me coming back. Like I you know, people like to think they know what to think. I don't know if they do. I haven't read that many books about it. But I've been told enough by some veteran horse people that that indeed is the case. So when I walk in, I try to walk in with my body language being one that is accepted by the horse. I try not to show a lot of fear and a lot of fidgety tendency, but the minute I found out that horses can teach you more about yourself than you know, that's intimidating. I don't know how many animals can do that. Maybe they are I don't know. I mean I you know, and so I'm always interested in you know, I love athletics and to me quarter horses and some of the most athletic being I mean, just think about how versatile they are. You have I mean, it's just incredibly they have to sprint fast. They have to stop fast. And I don't care if that's Barrow cow, whatever. It's just if you see some of the cutting horses and I did go to the cutting house horse championship the world game world championships in Fort Worth just this month. Well that's my and and how low they get to the ground.

Lynn: 58:54

It's like they look like a cougar exam. Did you see the the horse that went for a million dollars? The filly? Yeah. Did you watch the run while they were auctioning her? She was she's two years old. And she was so supple. Now I don't I don't know the difference between a million dollar horse and a $10,000 horse. But they do the people who've been the money. Oh, you know they do well and but I was watching her and I was like that whore and she there's the saying I've heard I barely know what this means. But it's like she was really Cowie, which means the horse like is tuned into other cows like big horse really wants to work cattle.

Dwayne: 59:33

You You say the big cow? Yeah, yes. Yeah. Yeah,

Lynn: 59:36

she was cowie whatever that means.

Dwayne: 59:39

That means it was bred in them. Yeah. Two horses that are specific for the sport that I do. Yeah. So cow horses and so but they can also do rain. Yeah. Now that I've been around the sport two years, and I've seen some Rangers. I can tell with my own novice. I was the true Rainer. And what's the true cowboy Because the rain is I mean, you know, this beautiful the heads are down, they move like silk around that or anything, you don't really want that in cow horse, they don't want the head down. So they want to reflect what a true cow horse is, um, and even cutters are different than cow horse. I found that out this past week, they sit on their hand hawks, and they move their feet, their front feet, almost like a ballet, it's very light. And because they really, they they're turning their front end that keep that called dancing in front of them. It's not so much a boxing thing. You're actually, you know,

Lynn: 1:00:30

pivoting right off the hind legs. Yeah,

Dwayne: 1:00:32

exactly. And so those are even different than cow horses. And so it's, it's gotten very specific. But again, you mentioned the million dollar horse, that that type of money. You know, it's going to, it's going to buy the kind of horses that those kind of people can can afford. And so everybody else kind of gets in where they fit in. And I you know, so I guess this with any sport, I don't I don't know. But it's, you know, when you think about some of the athletes. I don't know how much you follow baseball, football, but look how many athletes that their parents played professional sports or whatever. Yeah. And then they became, but that's not by accident. Some of that. Yeah, they worked with them and somebody was tall, so their son was tall. But if you think about how many um, athletes the name escapes me, but the quarterback for the chiefs. I mean it. His dad played

Lynn: 1:01:20

Oh, I can picture him. He's an amazing quarterback. Oh, absolutely. What is his name? Yeah, no. Patrick Patrick mahomes

Dwayne: 1:01:29

mahomes. Right. And then Eli Manning,

Lynn: 1:01:35

decide to Manning's in sorry, in basketball, Seth Curry and Dell curry and

Dwayne: 1:01:41

all that to me. This, this this mirror to that meaning meaning is that by design, yes, the father spent time with him and stuff like that. But I do believe some of it is genetic. Yeah. Particularly speed, I got my speed from my mom. Yeah, she beat my butt running, running like races until I was like seventh grade. That's how fast she was able to kill me. But that I said, I'm not going to have my mother embarrass me in front of my friends like this. And so I had to get fast. And so anyway, it's genetic. And so same with horses. I guess that's why I was born with the story. Um, you know, people who can afford the metallic kits, and yeah, you know, all these, you know, one time pepto, and all these horses that have been known for what what they've won, or what their offspring has produced in that particular sport, whether it be raining, or raining cow, whatever name is sport. And so, um, you know, some people don't want to get to that level. But I do say it's the skills are tipped for those who have the access to the best course you got to put the time into them. But they start I think, with a head start,

Lynn: 1:02:45

I guess. Yeah, well, there's no question about it. But you know, I want to go back to something you said, because this is I think, I was gonna ask you the question, you know, what is it about the horse, and I think you kind of answered it with this is a being that is reading, he's reading your energy. You know, they, they absolutely respond to our gesture. And they do it in subtle ways. So it's, it's not like, you can walk in the barn and tell a relaxed horse from a tense horse, unless you know what you're looking for. And then when you know what you're looking for, it's almost like they're screaming, you know, the tense horse versus the relaxed horse or the willing horse versus the one who isn't willing. But for me, that's been one of the most joyous things was learning to dance with a horse that I could connect with in harmony, and yet also still be the leader, because it's very important, especially from a safety standpoint, that it's as my teacher says, Lynn Brown says it's 5149 you know, they don't get it, you know, she will often say when something happens, was that your idea or his?

Dwayne: 1:03:55

Right, go on through that.

Lynn: 1:03:57

And actually, bro, you know, you you were you with your Brooke USA interview you interviewed with Julia Neal and one of my other coaches is Bruce Anderson. Phenomenal teacher, especially on the he calls it natural human ship. And he was walking behind me one day when I was riding out in the trail on a bareback pad. And he taught me to do this thing called horse golf. So what this is, is you're in the woods, and you're riding from one point to the other so that you're always talking to the horse. Because the minute we stopped talking to them, they know we're not talking to them anymore. Like the minute we quit, like we kind of Daydream and quit giving it you know, that they know and when that happens, then they're kind of like wait a minute, where did you go and it can happen in your mind. And of course, think about how often we do that with our phones. We're not present with others, you know, but this is a being that weighs 1200 pounds that's carrying you on his back. Right. And I was walking playing horse golf with Bruce which is Walk from one point to the other. And when we got back to the barn, he said something like, talked about my steering. And he goes, You know, I noticed your steering was like a bunch of Z's, he said, you know, maybe you want it. And I said, or he said, Were you having a hard time getting the horse to do what you wanted? And I said, No, that's how I was doing it. Like, I wasn't surprised. I was actually like, like, it's a turn off for the bar. And instead of turning to the bar, and I went straight, because I didn't want the horse to think, okay, we're just on a mission to get the saddle off of it, which of course, horses do, like, they know where the gate is, they know where the barn is all the time. But anyway, I just think it's so interesting to try to be a leader with that, a being that knows more about you than that you know about yourself, it's bigger, that can hurt you. But yet, it's so willing, when you connect with him.

Dwayne: 1:05:51

Right. And so I would say for me that again, I think, both cases is unique. Because I've never talked to too many people who have done it the way that I've done it. So as I sit here listening to what you're telling me, the training and the course golf and all that, I mean, when I go into an arena, I'm literally working on those skill sets to get that horse to do what I want it to do. Very little time spent connecting, if I, if I may say it, in other words, um, who's the leader who's not the leader, um, you know, what I'm doing is, hey, collect your reins, to too much leg pressure, you can spring up that put his head down. So it's like, I don't know that. I'm actually asking him to do it so much as I'm giving him cues so that he does, and pressure release. I'm just getting to that point. Because when you when you get into a sport like this, you know what the heck you're doing. And both of my horses were trained? Well, before I got them, you know, will Toy Train train one from the from from, you know, from a small horse from a from a foal, but the other one, Jagger, I bought him at five. So he's already been trained, in a lot of ways when he's waiting on me to get where he is. He puts up with me zactly. Now, he's not a main horse. But sometimes I fit him saying, if you only catch a clue I can make you look really good. I'm fighting him all the way. Just like to a month ago, I won grand reserve, I was so happy with the little green class that I was in because

Lynn: 1:07:25

that was a monumental. That's a huge By the way, don't discount that. Because Yeah,

Dwayne: 1:07:30

yeah. Because there were other people in the class who I mean, I was happy about that. And so I'm trying to build on that said, Okay, well, that's not, that's not going to make tonight's news, you at least know that you're heading in the right direction, you're gonna get scored in advance, and all the people that are in there, and you got second out of all those people. And so it's kind of going back to what you're saying. I mean, I'd like to be able to share that story with someone so you too, can can do this. I mean, if you horses are your thing, like, but why was so Why that? Why that touched me so much. And then it was because at that event, a month ago, I finally felt like I was connected with my horse. He he felt more comfortable under me. He wasn't dancing. And he is almost like he was telling me, that's what I want you to do. Instead of me telling him

Lynn: 1:08:14

that because they are your teacher?

Dwayne: 1:08:17

Yeah, he was like telling me There you go. You you catch it on buddy. Like he like he's telling me. He says I'll do it that fight me just work with me. And but again, I'm going down there once a month. Sometimes I rad showed a show with no practice in between. That's how. Yeah, and so, you know, I think that your point, you know, when you see a flat land on the horses bud or his ankle, he can switch it off. Yeah, if a flower lamp right now, I don't know if there is big as they are they know. So they can feel that if they have that, that much sensory perception around that. The nerve endings or whatever it is, I just think they have a heightened level of senses. And to me, it's intimidating, not in a bad way. But intriguing. It wants me It wants to draw me near to them to how do you operate? Yeah, how does it? Yeah, I'm curious as to what you're thinking like, do you want me on your bag? Do you? Would you rather go graze and poop? What would you? What would you really want to do today? And so I tried to. And I always like to give back the love like I don't. I don't believe in treating horses, horses. I would imagine then that whatever the horse sport is, let's just put it out there. I don't know that left to their own demise. They left to their own choice. they'd want to do what we're asking them to do. I mean, why would they want to carry us around? Like,

Lynn: 1:09:36

it's amazing that they do it?

Dwayne: 1:09:38

Yeah. So they're already given up themselves to stop, spin, run, jump over these things and try on that are like 12 feet high. I don't know if I'd want to do that every day. And so the fact that they do it, I kind of want to say thank you every time and when a person gets hurt is usually because you know horses, flight animals. So if they throw you, you know, it's the tendency for us to say, Oh, he's mean, he's like that, no, he's just being a horse, you know, and some have a little bit different dispositions than others, but we're trying to train them under our guys, when we think they should do, right. And so, I don't know that that's what it is, to me the whole puzzle of getting to sync with that horse to so you become one, and I've not had the opportunity, or I've not taken the opportunity to enter a class or get online and learn this, learn that or, you know, it's just, I'm so busy trying to learn the sport, that I feel like sometimes I'm doing two things at once. And that's why again, once I get my horses where I am, I think I can go out in the mornings and forget about riding, just go out and be with the horses. Just be and just kind of learn that, that and I just haven't had the opportunity to do that. So I know what's coming. And I'm just enjoying the ride until until that time.

Lynn: 1:10:54

Well, you know, I mean, what you're talking about the idea just to be able to go just be I feel like is, I think something that we all kind of crave. And we get caught up in our goals and, you know, making the numbers and all of that kind of thing. But maybe that's the greatest gift that they have is that they live so much in the present moment. And they let it go so fast. Right? You know, our world, our world, we don't do that. We can't you know, I had I won't go into the whole story. But I went to go get on, you know, groom the horse that I wrote regularly. And there was a dog in the barn that really bothered the horse. So I had a much spookier kind of freaked out horse in the barn that day, put the saddle on him got him up to the arena, which was a little ways away. And my instructor had to remind me to let it she said you need to let the dog go. He he let the dog go a long time ago. And you're still acting like he was the horse he was down there. That's not the horse that's that you're with right now. Right? And I think as humans, we just tend to carry those resentments even or those fears or whatever. We keep carrying those and they can teach us a lot about, you know, if you're going to be a wild flat animal. You have to also be able to like when it's when the danger is over, put your head down and grazing. Right. And I never live

Dwayne: 1:12:19

I've never heard it put quite like that. makes sense to me. So yeah, again, it's a my love for horses to people who don't really know me. They think it's a newfound thing that in midlife crisis, most people buy and read Mustangs, and I decided it's not so much that I've loved horses all my life. I'm just now at a point where I can do more than just like,

Lynn: 1:12:38

it's so cool to watch TV on Facebook. And when we when we do the sort of art at the end, we'll tell people how to find you on Facebook, so they can see some of these posts and such. But before we close, I do have to ask you about this album. The I think I picked up that you have not released Is that accurate?

Dwayne: 1:12:57

Yeah. So

Lynn: 1:12:58

talk to me about this album and let us know how and when it might be released.

Dwayne: 1:13:04

Okay, so when at when I first started trying to pursue music in a semi serious way where I got a band and I got people to play with me. What I found out was kind of like the horse thing, just jump straight in it. There was no lesson I mean, I To be honest, I played the trumpet all through high school. Yeah, okay, you know, and get pretty accomplished. But the piano is what I play now. And I took piano lessons as a kid, but I really didn't like it. And that's a whole nother story. I stopped taking lessons. And so I didn't return to playing the piano. until much later in life, man, I mean, much later in life. And to this day, I don't I don't read piano music. I just write songs. And people like how to do that. And the reason I don't think it's, well, I think it's a gift. I don't I don't make a big deal of it. Because there are so many accomplished musicians out there who don't read, and they play wonderfully. I think in some ways it has stifled and curtail my music career as it were, because, um, if you can't recharge to read notes, people somehow you know, you have to learn the music, give me a CD, I'll learn it, that type of thing. So I did a lot of that when I had my band. And I said, well, let's play this by Stevie Wonder, play that I'd go CD and listen to it and learn the chords right? So I wouldn't necessarily call myself a proficient piano player. I think I write good songs, and they're usually of the soft rock, r&b jazz type of music is most instrumental. So because I don't consider myself a songwriter. I write instrumentals if someone wants to put words but I guess they could. But and how that you know how that kind of manifests itself as I was playing for a friend of mine one day when I was living in Houston and he's like, Minister sounds really good. You need to get a band. Everybody wants a band, right? I'm like, I think that's kind of cheesy. And so he went and got he went started getting people come up with doing his house and so I said the only way out It is the band will learn my original music because there's tons of bands out there that play cover music. That's right.

Lynn: 1:15:05

That's right.

Dwayne: 1:15:06

And he's like, that's the bow movement, you got to go into club, you got like, I don't want to do that. I just, it's not that I think I'm great. But if I'm gonna play my music, I'd like to hear how my music sounds was like really good musicians. So they bought into it, man, they came over and they liked when I would go to clubs and functions and stuff. We play music I wrote. And now we will add some covers in there too. Because when you don't have a name, people want to hear whatever it is the Eagles, elton john, they want to hear something. And then but I would if we had a set of 12 songs, now would be my own. You play them? Well, from that, you know, then, you know, I, I just started meeting people just kind of like I met you and Tammy and just when I would meet him, I would be bold in my desires. Hey, look, my name is Wayne Hildreth. I'm a musician. And you know, would you play my song? And they're like, what? And so I was selling the song. And they're like, This is good stuff, man. I'll play on it. So they did. And I got a collection of about 10 to 12 songs. But for some reason, then it was you know, during the height of my career at Nike, I just never, I can't really give you a reason I never did what it took to market it, put it together, have it published, just to go out there. Now I did send demos to a couple of stations around the United States, Atlanta and I can think of and they played that thing. It was called a rush hour. And they played it on this jazz station, a real prominent station in Atlanta. And you would have thought that that would have been enough for me to just kick the rest of it, but I didn't. I mean, people would call it goes, dude, I didn't know you would play. Is this. The Dwayne Hill did I know I'm like, Yeah, they're playing your moves. I'm like, yeah,

Lynn: 1:16:43

so great.

Dwayne: 1:16:45

Yeah, I just I just never did now. So where we are now is I realized that that's another little piece of me that's missing has nothing at all good horses is a whole nother Dwain. But, um, now I have the time. And since and I've got a catalog after catalog of just songs that I never produced, but I have 910 that that are ready to go, I just need to package it up and, and find a way to market myself in this environment. Now that is so COVID laden and even without COVID the music industry was kind of going haywire because people are streaming right. They were buying CDs and when I was young, and I'm sure you can relate to this, I opened up earth when a fire Chicago album and look at it, just look at the just the the album cover itself and read all about it. I could sit there and listen to the album and flip it over 30 times, and never get tired of it now. I mean, you stream the song, right? And it's not there's not an emotional connection. So at this point in my life, at my age, with the type of music that I play, I have to decide just like with the horses, what am I in this for? Is it just to say you finally did something that you said you were gonna do? And finally got the CD out there? Do you really want people to like it? Like, what? What's your goal? Oh, that's pretty much it. I'm going to get it done. Yeah, you think I've added is I want to write a book, but that that just came to me recently. So

Lynn: 1:18:06

when, when you're ready, let me know, because I'm on my third one. And I've been self publishing and you know, as I, as I'm more thinking about, you know, publishing in books, or music, or very similar, it feels like in today's environment. And there's a lot of marketing, people who I think would agree with this, we kind of have to build our own audience, you know, the gatekeepers, are a lot less powerful than that. But that because there are fewer gates, if you're gatekeepers, you really have to build your own audience. And, you know, I'm guessing that it sounds to me like you probably already have a bit of a following. So,

Dwayne: 1:18:47

yeah, that, that has been interesting, because, you know, and I was talking to Tammy about it. And I don't want to sound right when I say this, I'm really curious as to why I might post something over my property that I just purchased or a horse or whatever it is. And I I get a lot of lights. And they says because you're authentic in your stories, like what you're telling anybody can post a picture of this camera waiting to it. And it's not like I'm kind of come up with a way is just what the thing is. And it becomes that I'm enjoying it, but more so than anything that you call it getting an audience it is on a journey, and sharing my journey with someone else. So someone might get inspired to do their own journey, whatever that is right. Or, or if it's just a release from for two seconds or two minutes to enjoy what I posted sunset, sunrise, horse, dog, whatever it is I'm doing before they go back to school and the crap that's on there.

Lynn: 1:19:45

Yeah, I mean, well, you know. So first of all, I want to mention that Tammy is a mutual friend of ours and Tammy was on the podcast last January. Tammy Tappan art she you own one of her beautiful paintings. Have a horrible bit more than one of a horse in the sort of position of stopping, which is amazing. She's just a phenomenal artist. So I'll make sure and post, I'll have links to all these things in my show notes. But I also want to mention, oh, gosh, the other thing just went right out of my head, it'll come back to me in a minute, you were talking about your audience, your journey, the journey on work Schiller, who we talked about has a podcast, too, I highly recommend. It's called the journey on podcast. And, you know, you were just talking about your journey. And it's like, versus this. It was really, really caught. It's like, I would love to, I don't want to go back to corporate America. But I would love to know how to see my work as a as a canvas on which I was painting my life instead of defining me. In other words, that all those opportunities, problems, difficulties, obstacles, were actually just opportunities for me to be me. Correct? and correct. You know, that is not

Dwayne: 1:21:07

how most of us don't realize it until later. Yeah, it's about living learn. I'm like, I think if someone had told me, I probably would have listened to him. It's not that. I don't I don't know how to put it. But you and I are sitting there having this conversation now. But how many 32 four year olds are having this conversation? Well, we have overall that it's tough to get where we are,

Lynn: 1:21:31

to some degree, I think we did. And I also think it's possible to start reversing it, because there was a point and it was probably more like the dawn than it was a light switch. But I went from realizing that I had to wrap my life around to the other way around. And that, you know, the way I actually operate now is I kind of start with the priorities are the things that matter most to me. So I put my waterskiing, my horseback riding my pottery, my painting, the things that used to be the last thing I would do, or Now the first thing that go on my calendar, then everything else has plenty of time, plenty of time to do all those things.

Dwayne: 1:22:12

And that is my hesitancy about really pursuing corporate America with a vengeance, which is what I first started to do. Because I felt like I didn't want to do something, nothing made me pause, and allow a pause, the more I'm starting to come to my center. And so I would prefer not to return back to corporate America. I'm not against it. But I know, I know, the inner me. And my propensity to start turning away from all the things that we've talked about over the last hour, and going right back into this mode of and I don't want that. Right.

Lynn: 1:22:45

And I it's it's both seductive and almost imprisoning at the same time. Yes. Yes. So um, well, I just have totally enjoyed this conversation. I can't thank you enough for taking your time to there. I think we could go for a long, long time. And

Dwayne: 1:23:06

oh, which brings it up that Brooke.

Lynn: 1:23:09

Yes.

Dwayne: 1:23:10

So real quickly, I need to mention this, because it's very important to me, Brooke, USA, is a nonprofit organization, which is solely dedicated to the betterment of working, working equine. So think horses, mules and donkeys, primarily in third world countries, it's a global organization, but primarily in third world countries that actually use horses for their livelihood. So when you think about educating the owners, providing healthy environment, and health care for those animals, it's an all out effort to, to raise money for, for these animals, and so, you know, this last year has been a little bit trying, because obviously, you know, we're the United States, and we got COVID, we got these other things, and people tend to kind of turn in and say, Hey, I gotta take care of me first. But for the most part, the organization has done a phenomenal job of making contact with, you know, our key donors and supporters to, to get the word out. And so I'm very proud to have been nominated as a member of the board of directors for

Lynn: 1:24:19

Oh, fantastic.

Dwayne: 1:24:21

Yeah, it's a again, this was something I wasn't looking for, but things happen and I was asked to be part of it. So in my specific role, and I'm just kind of getting started. I kind of feel like it's been a slow process, but I understand why it has been it Brooke is really kind of comprised of Canada jumping dressage, we're not too much Western. So as I plant myself, Mm hmm. Clearly in western horse, you know, environment is bringing awareness of book us aid to Aqa to nchsaa in our section, and it was Western disciplines, all for you know, all in that In that vein of trying to provide support for for the working equation so that's all I wanted

Lynn: 1:25:05

now, I will make sure there's a link to them in the show notes plus getting your your podcasts that Julianne Neil did with you for PSA, which when that when that comes up which it does take some time of course to produce those things so

Dwayne: 1:25:20

they can get more detailed information from it

Lynn: 1:25:23

and tell people how to find you, for example, just on the socials and so forth, what's the best way for them to

Dwayne: 1:25:28

look you up wine and Hildreth if they just Google that I have two but one is an optical that's the music one. So don't go to that. Okay. But the one where you see the pictures that you saw, that's just Dwayne him up. My middle name, which is my father's and ed d. Okay. And it's Hildreth. h, l, d, r e. th, if they just Facebook that Okay, I'll come up. Yeah, there's a picture of me and

Lynn: 1:25:51

is that your main platform? Are you doing Instagram or Twitter or anything else?

Dwayne: 1:25:55

Well, and my my, my call name for this year Candy Man,

Lynn: 1:25:58

air candy, man. That's the music.

Dwayne: 1:26:01

Yeah, your Candy Man. And I, you know, embarrassed enough to say I probably spend more time on Facebook, when I know Instagram is probably where most people are. I just most of my friends on Facebook. Yeah, that's when I post something I usually post on both. Yeah. Oh, the other reason that I tend to use Facebook is because there's no limit on. That's one thing we didn't talk about. So I do these, these music column vignettes. where a person that either has passed or did something like an elder row or Aretha Franklin are staying, I will remake one of their songs. And I will post it but I will only post a minute to it because humans, they don't have patience, right? They want to scroll. And I found that if you can do 45 seconds to a minute and a half of a song. They'll listen to the whole thing. And so I'll send you some of that.

Lynn: 1:26:50

Yeah, do that. And we'll link to it in the show notes again, so people could see some of your stuff. And yeah, I'm going to use that picture of you standing on the backs of the horses for the podcast. People are dynamite. People want to know how and the more you know about horses and the fact that they're flat animals and the fact that you know, you're out in the pasture where anything can happen, the more you realize just what an accomplishment. But I can't thank you enough. Look forward. Maybe we'll have to do a round two at some point and come out. I'd love to come meet your horses at some point in Texas. And have you come out here ride with us?

Dwayne: 1:27:27

Absolutely. I can't wait to meet your brother. I'm really excited. Yeah,

Lynn: 1:27:30

I know, Matt. Matt, my brother is connected with a lot of the horse world and looking forward to meeting you. So

Dwayne: 1:27:37

that'd be great. So hey, thanks for having me. Man.

Lynn: 1:27:39

You are so so welcome. Thank you for listening to the creative spirits unleashed podcast. I started this podcast because I was having these great conversations and I wanted to share them with others. I'm always learning in these conversations, and I wanted to share that kind of learning with you. Now what I need to hear from you is what you want more of and what you want less have. I really want these podcasts to be a value for the listeners. Also, if you happen to know someone who you think might love them, please share the podcast and of course subscribe and rate it on the different apps that you're using, because that's how others will find it. Now, I hope you go and do something very fun today.