#28 Tyler Boyd Betting on Yourself and Your Own Skills
Every year, the Masters Water Ski tournament is held in Callaway Gardens in Pine Mountain Georgia. It is THE most prestigious tournament in water skiing. This year, my friend Cyndi Benzel was chief judge and asked me to be the judge’s assistant. During the officials meeting the first night we got there, I ran into Tyler just to say hi. We have been connected on Linkedin for years - because water skiing is that kind of sport. You just connect with everyone involved in the sport.
Somehow Tyler and I started talking business and leadership and books that changed our lives.It was one of those moments where I wanted to capture the conversation – so we set the earliest date we could to record this podcast.
This conversation gets going very quickly. Before we are five minutes into it, Tyler starts sharing some of his ideas on leadership and performance. He was deeply affected by Carol Dweck’s book Mindset and Annie Duke’s book Thinking in Bets. Both caused him to think differently – and act differently - and those themes are woven into this conversation.
We also cover a lot of other ground on his thoughts on applying his life principles to investing and to sports.
Of course, the conversation would not have been complete if we didn’t talk about the Master’s and some of the incredible stories from the event a few weeks ago. One thing I learned without a doubt: Tyler pours his heart into giving every athlete their moment in the limelight. I also learned how he has spent his whole life preparing to be behind the mic, whether in water skiing or announcing football. I was captivated by his stories about he learned to be so good on the microphone.
Here’s what he has to say about himself.
Tyler Boyd started water skiing as a child 30 years ago. His exceptional speaking skills gave him the motivation to become an announcer for water skiing events over ten years ago. For the last three years, he was the commentator for the Masters of Water Skiing. Tyler has also spent time announcing football events for Houston Baptist University.
A licensed attorney, he brings exceptional speaking and negotiating skills to the table, along with a high level of focus, creativity, and value to every interaction. He stands out from the crowd by combining talent and passion in his professional pursuits. As a Houston attorney, he handles a wide range of legal issues in commercial, contract, business, and employment law.
Tyler is a four-time USA National Water Ski Champion and remains active in the sport where he continues to compete. In his free time, Tyler enjoys traveling with his wife and three children, researching, skiing, diving, biking, and working out.
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Intro:
Welcome to creative spirits unleashed where we talk about the dilemmas of balancing work and life. And now, here's your host, Lynn Carnes.
Lynn:
Welcome to the creative spirits unleash podcast I'm Lynn Carnes your host. For this episode I'm speaking with Tyler Boyd, known to me as the announcer of the Masters waterski tournament. I did not know him before this conversation. We had been connections on LinkedIn. But this year, the Masters waterski tournament which is held every year in Callaway gardens in Pine Mountain, Georgia this year, my friend Cindy benzyl, was the chief judge and asked me to be the judges assistant. By the way, judges assistant means I gave everybody their radios their lunches and ran anything else around they needed me to do. During the officials meeting the first night we got there. I ran into Tyler just to say hi because we had been on LinkedIn together. And you know waterskiing is that kind of sport, we kind of all are connected just because it's a small kind of niche sport. So we somehow started talking about business and leadership and books, things that changed our lives from our books. And as soon as we started talking, I wanted to hit the record button because it was one of those conversations. So we set the earliest date we could to record this podcast. Now this conversation gets going very quickly, not three minutes in tower start sharing some of his ideas on leadership on performance, and how he was deeply affected by Darryl Carol Dweck, book mindset and Annie Dukes book thinking in bets, those two together to him, were just sort of like a beautiful one two punch in a good way. Both both caused him to think differently, act differently. And those things are woven throughout this conversation. We also cover a lot of ground on his thoughts on how to apply his life principles to investing to sports to business. And of course, the conversation would not have been complete if we didn't talk about the masters. Some of the incredible stories that came from that event A few weeks ago, we share some of the behind the scenes and some of the things that we saw of some of the most amazing you know, sort of stories of overcoming adversity or doing the unexpected. Now, one thing I learned without a doubt, Tyler pours his heart into giving every athlete their moment in the limelight in this tournament. And I also learned how he came to know how to be such the kind of announcer that he is he tells some stories about his childhood and it all makes sense when you hear the stories. So here's what he has to say about himself. He started waterskiing as a child 30 years ago, and his his exceptional speaking seals gave him the motivation to become the announcer for waterskiing events over well over 10 years ago. He's also spent time announcing football events for Houston Baptist University. He's a licensed attorney and he brings his exceptional speaking and negotiating skills to the table there as well along with a high level of focus, creativity and value. He stands out from the crowd by combining talent and passion in his professional pursuits. As a Houston attorney, he handles a wide range of legal issues in commercial contract business and employment law. Tyler is a four time US National Water ski champion and remains active in the sport where he continues to compete. In his free time he enjoys traveling with his wife and three children. He's researching skiing, diving, biking and working out. So as always, I would really love to hear what you think about this conversation. If you go to the podcast Kade page on lingkaran comm there is a little black button on the side of the of the screen and it literally is on the far right side along the edge of the screen where you can click Send a voicemail button and I get to hear your voice. It's super easy to do and it lets me know what to bring you in future episodes. I can also send you a voicemail back. So of course if you liked this episode, share it with your colleagues and friends. And I hope you enjoy this episode with Tyler Boyd. Tyler Boyd, welcome to the podcast.
Tyler:
And great to be here. I guess it's this afternoon morning. We're right in the middle of the day. So it's awesome to be aboard.
Lynn:
It's good to have you here. And as I was getting ready to start this conversation, I remember perks and I feel like I've known you for years because you announced masters. But I met you What was it two weeks ago that we had masters that two weeks already at the officials meeting? I guess that would have been Thursday night. This is a Thursday so it was exactly two weeks ago. I just wanted to like go say hey, you know somehow we've ended up LinkedIn friends. And then we started this conversation About a couple of books that you I don't even know how we got there. But I instantly had the urge to hit record, or in the room in front of everybody. Because I was like, this is the kind of conversation when I have them, I want to share them. So, you know, next thing I know, everybody's tried to get everything else done. And you and I are still talking and I had to like pin you down lighters that you have to come on my podcast. So Tell, tell, do you remember the two books we were talking about?
Tyler:
Yeah, we were talking about mindset. And we were talking about any Dukes book, which is thinking in bets. And last two books. Yeah, those highly impactful, and we got into a conversation about the blend of those two books, because I think, for me, personally, on a personal level that has been, you know, I don't think now after reading both of those books, you can have one without the other. I mean, you certainly can, and you'll find success, but I don't think you'll find ultimate success without one without the other. So yeah, those are those are game changing books.
Lynn:
So it's, it's interesting, because you just hit you didn't use this word, but I think of it as alchemy. Sure, right, john, without the other like, in other words, what they they're both good, but together they amplify. Yeah, absolutely. What was it that you know, amplify, especially, especially those two books, what amplified for you? And how have you seen those theories apply in your life?
Tyler:
Yeah. So let's go from the top and talk about Carol Dweck book mindset. I think that was the first one I read of the two. And I was surprised that book has been around for a long, long time, and I picked it up I go, I cannot believe I have not read this. I mean, it's over a decade old. And it was very enlightening to me. I mean, I've always been an athlete growing up. And I always had what I thought was this positive mindset, going into circumstances. And that was the way I pulled out of it. But when I read through that book, there are times and situations where being just strictly positive, it's just not enough. And you reach points in an athletic career, or a career or a job, where you're sitting there and your feelings are not very positive, right? You're just like, well, I'm trying to change the way that this is going. But this is just not enough. And I remember playing quarterback, I played in high school at a small college. And we'd be down in a game and everybody's looking to you as the leader, right? You step into the huddle. But you look up at that scoreboard and you're going, but I need to be positive, this is a time to be positive, and everybody's looking to you for direction, but you don't feel positive. And then you start to feel that sense of failure, and what it's going to be like, what are the press headlines going to read? If we lose this game? What if this play doesn't work? Am I going to get pulled out of the game and get replaced? And I remember those feelings, and that situation of trying to be positive. And it was just simply artificial. And when I read Carol's book about this about mindset, she was really honing in on this growth concept. I said, Well, that makes sense. And on the very surface level, I think everybody that has a positive mindset would agree that growth is a really good thing. But is it at the center of what you're doing? And if I would have gone back to my athletic career, I believe today and had a growth mindset, no matter what situation would happen. As long as I had my focus 100% committed to growing in that situation, I think my outcomes would have been a lot better. And so when I read her book, I started thinking about man, how can I grow? How can I grow? Now? How can I grow with my family? How can I grow with my relationship with God? How can I grow? in my career, instead of just simply thinking like, well, the thesis is, we're going to do this, and I'm going to be as positive as I possibly can about it. And we're going to go forward. So I went along with Carol's book for a long, long time. I said, Man, that is really good.
Lynn:
And then can I stop? Because I have a question about this. Immediately when you were talking about being in the huddle, it was like I was in there with you. And you said you looked up at the scoreboard and you're thinking about what the press might write the next day. And you still have to play and still have to play. Yeah, that negative sort of situation where you have to come back and you know, it's hard. So in the huddle, if you were to if you could do a time machine, and go back and be Tyler Boyd having read mindset in the huddle, how would you have done it differently than that?
Tyler:
Well, first of all, what I've learned with the mindset book as well is that a lot of the feelings and the emotion that you carry into a particular situation can be dealt with with preparation. And so I think from the foundational piece of walking into that huddle is Look, I've trained really hard for this. We practice really hard everybody here has Put, you know, their life hard sweat, blood and tears into this moment. And we're going to go out and we're going to perform the best we possibly can. Now that itself is a great primer to where you need to be. But the next step of that is when that sense of fear or what if this one, if that starts to set in, it's never the end, right? And it's never the end, because we're always going to grow from this play, to the next play to the end of this game to the end of the season. And I think about the difficulty in football in particular, you know, there's a, there's a coach is saying that you never know what play is going to be your last because you're out there, you're putting your body on the line, you could have a season or career ending injury. And a lot of times that starts to play into your mindset of well, you know, if things don't pan out, I may be done, you know, this may be in and then the negative starts to wear on you were looking at the broader picture of how I've grown for my athletic career from those times in the Huddlestone now. I mean, I emailed a professor just the other day, and we talked about this when we were over there at that skiiers meeting when it was, you know, I have a tremendous conviction and where Bitcoin is headed, right? But I went back and I emailed a professor who a class I took in international politics. 12 years ago, I was writing a 20 page, midterm paper could not see the light at the end of the tunnel, but knew that, you know, I was just going to grow from that particular experience is now I'm reading the headlines yesterday about El Salvador getting this as their legal tender. And I'm like, Well, I learned about the Bretton Woods and the monetary system and the gold system. 12 years ago, that class. Now, I never knew how that was ever going to relate the closest person to international politics. I once met somebody that was working for the United Nations. That's it. I had nothing to do with my life. And yesterday, I'm reading in the headlines. I'm like, No, I've seen how this played out. I wrote a 20 page meant to her about this, like, this is why what El Salvador is doing right now is making sense to me. And now I expand back and I look and I say, it may not be that growth in that huddle that I'm looking for. It may be growth throughout a lifetime, where I'm going to pull on these little experiences so and that narrow situation growing from play to play. But in the in the grand scheme of life. I've had to zoom out. You know, one thing I've learned about being in a job is that when you're going compared to being an athlete, when you're in high school, you know who's the starting quarterback, when you're a freshman, you know, who's the starting quarterback? When you're a sophomore, and you know that based on your age, you're going to have a chance. Well, that's a four year matriculation cycle. If you're an employee out there in a business, you have about a 40 year matriculation cycle. And a lot of young people get frustrated in that because they think well, I'm 25. By the time I'm 30, I should be an executive. But the reality of it is, there's a longer matriculation cycle. And I'm not saying go slow at your goals. But what you're learning at 25 and 30, you may not use until you're 4540 5055. And that's when the company finally calls you up to be the leader.
Lynn:
You know, it's funny, because I'm sitting here as somebody who is in my early 60s, so I've been through several mytek, print circulation cycles. That's a great word, by the way. And I almost everything I've done in the last 20 years, I can actually look at my life and say, everything that I've done to now is what prepared me to do this next thing. And I call in everything from my prior life, including when I found a box of my old mementos a few months ago, I could see where some of the things I do now like drawing and painting and watercolor and riding horses and things like that. And waterskiing were kind of all planted the seeds in my young childhood.
Tyler:
Absolutely, absolutely. And and, you know, it's, it's interesting, you say that land, because sometimes people are, you know, on that search for what their passion is. And, you know, if it keeps calling, it's gonna call until you pick up the phone. I mean, that's the bottom line. I, when I came out of my undergrad work, I always wanted to take some seminary classes always wanted to do it just never could have had the time. And I've I have a master's degree, I have a law degree. And at 36 years old this fall, I'm going to start taking seminary classes. So technically, that would be the fourth time I've gone to college. But to me, it's not about the degree. It's not about the fourth time going to college, it's about the opportunity to continue to grow. And those passions have never left me so it's like, well, you know, it's time to go polish it. So that's that's exactly what I'm doing as well. And I think that's a great attitude to have is hey, look, you know, this is what I've always been interested in now I'm to the portion of my life that I'm meant to be doing these things
Lynn:
well, and there's something else I have to reflect on. Because this was one of those moments, I'm always thinking about performance under pressure. I'm the next book I'm writing, dancing. The tightrope is really, it's about my story of getting back on the horse, but it's really about performing under pressure and with uncertainty. And by getting that reminder, it's going to be a great piece of research for that book, because that's really what her book is. And we should we should segue in there, we're gonna go south and I, I do have to tell you, I have to tell you something, your football story reminded me of Tom Brady 20, I think it was 2019 is playing Kansas City. Whoever wins this game is going to the Super Bowl. He's still with the Patriots, and the Kansas City Chiefs score. And the camera cuts to his face. And what was amazing on his face was this. Okay, then we're gonna just go make another touchdown. He actually looked like, you know, when you see it, I'm not trying to call him a dog. But you know, when you see a dog getting ready to go perform, and you can see, they're just like, let me in there. Let me in there, I'm going to go run the course or do whatever they're going to do. His face was that there was no fear. There was no concern there was just like, Okay, well, we only had like a minute and a half left to play, but that's okay. Because we know how to score a touchdown in a minute and a half. And of course, they went to the Super Bowl. But how many times do we see somebody Look at him and you can tell that they think they can do it. But you can also say the question. Yeah, and when Absolutely. When you said from Carol Dweck book and from your own thing you took away from it how it would be different you said, I know I'm I would know I was prepared.
Tyler:
Well, and and to go back, and it's the the underlying thread of what we're talking about here to go back years before Tom Brady ever got to be a New England patriot. He barely ever got to be in the NFL. And before that, he was almost never the starting quarterback at Michigan. I have a long, so I played the position of quarterback at a small college and I have a long, long, detailed theory about how rookies come into the NFL, if they've come out a big of a big college with great wide receivers, or one that hasn't. And it's always seems to me, you know, you can take the Tom Brady example, you could take the Doug Flutie example, you could take the Aaron Rodgers example, all of these guys, at some point carried a chip on their shoulder and refuse to give up, they just refuse to give up. So when you see Tom Brady in 2019, it's really all the preparation for him to become the starting quarterback, and at Michigan. And then oh, by the way, Tom, you're not good enough to go play in the NFL. Oh, really? Let me go prove me wrong. So it's crazy to watch Tom Brady, because we've seen him overcome it so many times. It's just become to the point to him, it's just like, good, I finally have another challenge. And he seems to be unfazed by it. I mean, obviously, I'm sure there's some feeling when he's going through that moment. But unlike people that experience a lot of success, and you go into the mindset book, a lot of people who experience a lot of success when they're young have a lot of problems when they're older. You know, it's like I've made straight A's my whole life, my first college class, I'm going to fail, and then they quit college or some story like that we've all heard those. It's, well, really, you just weren't challenged enough, right? You weren't challenged enough. And, and and your identity as a human being was in those grades. And it never was in the growth of the learning. And so when you get to a point when somebody says, Well, you failed, you take that on as your identity. Whereas the other piece of that is, I'm growing through this. And this is a little small hiccup. But guess what, here's all the things I can learn. Now I can bounce back now growth becomes your identity. And going back to Tom Brady, there's there's never been another football player on display for this period of time that we've watched this growth. It's just like, this guy's in his mid 40s. He's still playing, maybe he'll play till he's 50. Maybe he gets to 50 and says, Well, I feel like I want the challenge again. And we just continue to watch him grow. why everybody says, Oh, well, he's washed up. He's doing that. He sees it as another challenge. And I think that's the big takeaway from watching an athlete like that.
Lynn:
would argue about whether he's washed up when they mean to be able to I mean, talk about being a franchise player, you know, the ability to go from where he was a phenomenal team and end up leading yet another team to the Super Bowl is just stunning. Yeah, no, there's no question about it. So. So there you go. He is the goat. So there you go. We have a book that can literally be transformative and it sounds like you've done a phenomenal job of applying it and then along comes in Do
Tyler:
long comes Annie Duke and in my life yeah. And so I picked up her book, thinking in bets. And that came from just my background of just being kind of the investor out there in the market for the last decade. I mean, I really started investing in the stock market in 2009. That's when I was out of my master's program. So I entered into the workforce right after the 2008 crash, which really honed me in on a Warren Buffett, Charlie Munger type of approach to value investing. And I carried that along for quite some time. At some point, though, you know, you get to the point where we can all sit down, and we can do the math, and put our our portfolio numbers into a compound interest calculator. And we can see where we'll be at when we're 6570, wherever the new retirement age ends up. And I started to think about that, as the older I got, I'm 36. Now, you know, I was 24, then, and I started to think about that. I said, Well, what about the guys that are already retired? And they're 35? What did they do? Or the 40 year olds? What did they do? Well, they were thinking different. And they were thinking different because they they didn't look at the timeframe of that compound interest calculator. So what does that mean? Well, we get into this issue of risk. And I heard this definition the other day, well, what is risk? Well, risk on the surface level, for most of us, we take a look at it, and we say, well risk, that means that's probably something I don't want to do, right? Like, we don't want to take risk. That's very hard for us to see as human beings. But the reality of risk, a simple definition of it is, it's a reality of something that's before us in the future that we cannot see. So risk can be good, risk can be bad, and risk can be neutral. And when I read any books do and for the listeners that don't know who Annie Duke is, world renowned poker player, basically comes to the premise of, hey, look, I want a world championship at poker. Now, I will tell you, you cannot win a World Championship at poker unless you take risk. Right? At some point. This is a game about odds. It's about, you know, statistics. It's about how, how I'm going to play it over the course of a long run, you know, poker is not just a couple of bets, who can be in there the longest, and who can get out with the most chips, right. And so what I took away from Annie Duke, and this quote has always stayed with me. And I think we talked about it at that skiiers meeting was, you're not going to win a World Championship. If at some point, you don't, you don't take risk on the hands that are a 30 to 40% chance of winning, right? At some point, you've got to take some amount of risk. Because going back to the growth mindset, you can be all about that growth, growth mindset, you can be doing that to the queue all the way. And I'm not saying you're not going to have success with it. But I'm saying that if you have that, and you know how to take the calculated risks that any dude discusses in her book, I think that is just the recipe for the ultimate success, and you can really achieve things that almost seem impossible.
Lynn:
It does seem impossible, and I can actually hear my own monkey mind going, Yeah, but you can't afford to lose, you can't afford to lose. And the truth is, you don't take risks that you can't afford to lose. This is not Russian roulette. Right? That there's a we were talking about the difference between magnitude and probability. Because yes, the magnitude might be that you're out of the tournament, or that you might have to go re you know, refill your your investment pool, if you will, you might lose some money when you lose on that 30 to 40% chance, but you're not 100% gonna die. Yet our brain tells us we're gonna die.
Tyler:
Right? Well, and on the flip side of that, if there's an 80% chance you win, and the 20% that you lose, and you experience the 20%, you think you're a loser? That's right, right. So just because somebody comes to you and says, Well, you've got an 80% chance of winning, that's a less risky bet. Well, on the surface level it is but you can still experience the 20% and be just as worse off if you took the 40% win on our bet and you want on the 40% Yeah, right. And what I think where we're going with that is, at the end of the day, whatever whatever you're evaluating your risk, right, there's a risk in being an athlete, there's a risk and and a career, there's a risk in, you know, traveling. Yeah, I mean, there's there's risk everywhere. So, at some point, you're you're taking this growth mindset and you're saying, Well, hey, look, I'm at a fork in the road. I can take this 80% chance that it's going to work out but the reward is x or I can't This 40% chances is this is going to work out. And then this reward is double, triple 10x. I don't know what it is. And I think there's no right answer to that. But at some point, going back to the growth mindset, you're growing to the point to make that decision and you're ultimately betting on yourself and betting on your own research. And you're betting at where you stand in your own life to make that determination. And I think the people that are really, really successful and every, you know, facet of life are willing to do that. You know, we watch waterskiing a lot land, right, you're not gonna break the world jump record without taking risk.
Lynn:
I can tell you right now, I'm not going to be dragged breaking the jump record anyway. Going over that thing to me is I'm looking at jumping and say, okay, that's insane. Because we know people are gonna get hurt you and I watched the late Miranda, take a really bad crash. By the way, phenomenal job on your part announcing that because I I found this the whole weekend during masters, I was down there on the ground watching what was going on talking to the EMTs right before the accident and listening to people figure it out. I watched his family come in what you were announcing what was actually happened? parallel, you do a phenomenal job of capturing the real story. You're not up there just making stuff up.
Tyler:
Well, I appreciate that. Lynn. Yeah. So I mean, obviously a very scary situation. And I actually talked to Philippe before, you know, the day before he went out and my, my only time to ever ski at the Masters was as a junior against Philippe, and he beat me there. So yeah, that was back in 2003. I mean, and he's been doing it a long time, too. So to see him take a crash like that, obviously heartfelt because I know awful. Yeah,
Lynn:
yeah. And it's actually I was I helped Bob, measure his rope. So the mother in me was like, I wish I could have just confiscated his rope and not let him get hurt, you know. But that's, that's, that's the whole point of telling that is, you know, on the flip side of all that risk of the potential for injury, as you said, there is a payoff, there is a payoff, right. And that's, they're going for the payoff,
Tyler:
they're going for the payoff, they're going for the top of the podium. And when you when you take an extreme sport like that, it's obvious to see the risk, right, the risk reward of what you're doing out there going into a ramp at 70 miles an hour, and potentially flying 200 to 230 feet. There's just an inherent risk in what you're doing. But there's no way you're going to get to the top of the podium, if you don't take that risk. And so to them, they're just betting on themselves. They're relying on their training to get them there. And the bet is, hey, look, if I end up in this spot, and make this turn and carry this much speed into the ramp, this is going to be the one that gets me on top of the podium. And then but if you're if you're psychologically not there, you're not in the growth mindset, you're thinking about the fear of crashing, the fear of failure, the fear of not making it to the podium, it's almost guaranteed at that level, that you probably won't make the podium.
Lynn:
Our brains have a great way of following whatever picture we create. Annie Duke talks about that in the book. And she says, you know when you're having to, like she said, the survival brain listens to the rustle in the grass. And the question is, is is, is it a lion? Or is it the wind? Well, your brain is hardwired to have to assume it's going to be the lion. You You bet on the wind, even though it's a 10% chance it's a lion. When it's a lion, you're your dinner. That's right. That's right. But in back to that situation of watching the jumpers and so forth, I do have to also say what a thrill it was to watch Freddy Krueger actually win that event with a 222 foot jump edge. I name his forte, his 14th masters.
Tyler:
Well, and you're worried we're talking about Tom Brady. I mean, in the skate world, you put you put Friday right next to Tom Brady. I mean, 13 Time Masters champ one is 14. So he's 13 times coming in 14 coming out. And there was a video that was circulating around social media. I mean, he's been doing it for a long time. I mean, you look back to the days of ski fly, you know, he was taking titles there during the ski fly. And, you know, some of the competitors that are chasing them were in diapers at the time he was winning his first masters and so, I mean, there's not enough to say about how good he is and, and, and, and when that's probably a great study in itself, because talk about someone who's put themselves in a risk sport that's been consistently able to perform over multiple decades. He's definitely got to figure it out.
Lynn:
He's got something and and one of my favorite moments and and Actually also one of my biggest regrets because I didn't pick up my video camera was Freddy winner who ultimately went on to win the salt slalom title. I'm standing there down in the officials area and and Freddy Krueger is carrying his two jumpers to the starting dock on the day of and who is the fanboy following him? videoing Freddy winner. And weinland didn't pick up her camera to get a video of Freddie following Freddie. I don't know. That's awesome. I actually got Freddie winter to show me the video later and asked him I said I said, Are you actually doing the whole fanboy thing? Like what was that? He goes, Oh my God, he's the greatest of all time. This is such a moment. And something about one champion because Friday winners one before he went one this time, but he's won before. One masters champion, sort of almost idolizing another's masters champion is something I just love about our sport. You know, within the competition, there's so much respect and so much support.
Tyler:
That's right. And you know, the Freddie being younger than Freddie Krueger Freddie wetter being younger. Yeah. I mean, he's probably looking at Freddie Krueger. Like how in the world? Have you done this? 14 times? I mean, because you're you're achieving which the most prestigious tournament in the world the Masters waterski tournament presented by not take. You're, you're basically out there against the world's best and to consistently perform at that level. So I'm saying over two decades, I mean, even even as just, you know, the average spectator looking out at this event, you have to think wow, what what makes that guy tick? Because whatever it is, I want some of that. Yeah.
Lynn:
That's exactly he had to he has to be thinking that And in both cases, by the way, you're talking about people who are not getting masters championships. For the other events. It's like single sport Freddy Krueger got 14 jumping titles. He didn't tricking or slaloming, normal Friday winner do it tricking or jumping right there. They're kind of I call myself a one trick pony. Because I really am I wouldn't even try to get up on a trick ski much less. You know, jet skis. I'm a slalom skier. That's it. But But that means 14 years, you don't get to have two titles in the same year. Right. Right.
Tyler:
Well, and then that doesn't even account for the years that you probably got second on the podium. So it wasn't it wasn't like he was absent those years. I mean, he was right there probably lost the title but a foot or two.
Lynn:
Yeah, it's it's amazing. It was amazing to watch that so and what another quick thing to just know is it was the 64th. Masters. What a gift to have sort of that level of a prestigious tournament. They get getting to go that's my first Master's, getting to see what goes on behind the scenes to see what it takes to showcase the athletes. You know, take some some of the best athletes you'll ever see and get to showcase them. I am so appreciative to not to not take into everybody that helps make it happen. It's pretty amazing.
Tyler:
I mean, it's an incredible tournament and I'm not and we'll ever be at a venue like Callaway gardens at Robin lake. I mean, there's going to be no tournament out there that can match that tournament. There's just such a feel a buzz, a prestige around that tournament. There, there has not been a masters and I've done in 11 times where I am not at some point in that tournament with the hair completely stood up on my arms because of a moment that happened. I mean, you talk about ready winter, watching himself outside the buoy to win the title. You talk about even, you know, a young guy like Joel polen in the semi, you know, to 21 then you start to talk about that you know how great that is for the future of the sport. And then we're sitting there in the finals. And then you're like, you know, it's like Tiger Woods on Sunday. Here comes Freddy Krueger, and he busts one out there and you're like, wow, four team titles. Unbelievable. So it seems like every time I have the opportunity to announce that tournament, it ends up where I just walk away and I'm just shaking my head. I'm like, Man, this is this is amazing.
Lynn:
It truly is. I don't even know by the way you get there. Like it starts at eight in the morning. doesn't end until, you know, Sunday's not quite as bad because we're in the finals. But for three days you're sitting up there announcing for like, how many hours eight 910 hours. Tyler how do you do that?
Tyler:
Yeah, there's it depends what it is, you know, the day but it can go from anywhere from six to 10 hours on the day. I mean, I've done tournaments. There was one tournament I know. This was back in probably 2011 or 2012. We we did one in Milwaukee and at that pro tournament. We literally went from 8am to 10 3011 o'clock at night, I think we were breaking every sound ordinance in Milwaukee because I was live. And I was announcing really enthusiastically. And I remember getting on the plane the next day, I was like, I don't know how I'm going to make it home. Because I was. So I was so spent on every ounce of my energy to try to give those athletes the moment they deserve. And each and every one of those skiers that I was physically sick, traveling home, I remember like throwing up in the bathroom to finally get my connecting flight and made it home. And then I slept for like 10 hours. So my goal of the Masters has always been like, Look, these these, you know, ladies and gentlemen that are skiing year round to compete in this particular tournament, even down to the junior ranks, I am going to pour my heart into that microphone for three days. And I don't want to miss anybody. And I hope my hope LAN is always to capture a narrative within that moment that helps tell the story, either during the moment or after the after the tournament, because you know, those clips are gonna get played on social media. Oh,
Lynn:
they totally are. And actually one of the ones that was very good, and I totally caught you catching that story was Chelsea Mills. Right, who started skiing at 26. And it was funny because she she did later tell me you said she was 38, which I 100% agreed with. But she said I won't be 38 till next month. And I said because because 37 you know, and 11 months and 38 What's the difference? right? Especially to be at that level of skier. She missed the finals by less than a buoy.
Tyler:
Well, and you talk about Chelsea Mills. And it's an incredible story. And I wish I knew Chelsea better because when I started reading that story, I said, I am going to sit right here on this story. And I am going to dig into this because go back to the growth mindset, who, who out there at 26 years old decides, hey, I'm going to pick up a slalom ski, and I'm going to learn this sport. And I don't know where it's going. But I'm going to keep learning. And then after 1012 years, she's at the Masters waterski tournament almost in the finals. I mean, I think about that in my personal life. Like just think about right now. I'm 36 years old. And I told you Lynn, I'm going to go pick up some golf clubs tomorrow. I don't know where it's going. But you know, I don't really have any ambition, but I'm going to learn from it. And I'm sure at some point, Chelsea just kept learning and learning and learning. She's going well, there's some potential here. But I mean, I've never seen that in any sport, much less our sport, which is primarily dominated by the people that get into it as a young age. I mean, it crept
Lynn:
up and actually I so I because she trained right down the road for me. I've known her for a long time, back when she could run 22 off with getting into 28 off training with Austin Abel, who coaches here at mystic waters now. And I met her at like, flew me first and then started skating with her a little bit at little mountain got to know her, watched her get coached by Whitney McClintock at little mountain, maybe six years ago. This is when Chelsea was just trying to get through 35 off. And Whitney McClintock was already a world champion and sharing with her how to, you know, do some of those like finer nuance things? And so I was like, wow, if Chelsea could like run 38 off and then I started learning how to drive a boat when we got our ski like, and people like, you know, Cory Vaughn and Austin Abel and Joel Holly and Tyler Jaeger and people like that were there. It was like, okay, we need somebody that can drive a 39 offski or so I got training, started learning with Jeff Gilbert, who had trained with Chelsea for many years. And I actually pulled her through a 38 once. And at the time, that was her best. Like she ran maybe 20% of her 38 offs. Yeah, which I have to run in her like in the women, you have to run that pass. So when she started getting into 39 off, it was sort of like getting into pro territory. Last year, it was written up probably close to this time of the year, I interviewed her for the podcast, and she was ranked eighth in the world and just getting into 39 off and again, I was like, have you reached your max yet? So the fact that she got into the Masters was one thing, but then she barely missed the files. That means she as as some people will say it's like it's not just to get a ticket into the event. But you have to actually score right when you're in the event, whatever it may be, and Last week, and they, like 38 tournament, she actually took third place, she actually beat Whitney, and had a four at 39 off, which was her best score ever.
Tyler:
Well, that goes back to that, that goes back to that growth mindset. Because the reality of that entire story to me is, that is just, if not way more impressive than winning a tournament, that journey in itself. And to watch people go on that type of journey. You know, a lot of times, you know, we talk about who's the most talented, who's the best gear, when we talk about a journey like that, that might be one of the most incredible things that I've ever seen in sport. I mean, it's just, it's just such a rare thing that I don't I don't even think I've seen it in any other sports. So, yeah, it's an incredible accomplishment.
Lynn:
It is and, and I it's just one of those many stories that we can call out from what you were speaking about at masters. But as I would walk around and get to meet people, like for example, I've never met Joe Poland before. And first night out, or first first day out, he drops a tutor and 21 foot bomb on, like, really, like gave notice to the field. You have to come after me and He is such a fun guy. And Matt Rainey who I consider a friend and also he's coached me many times. I said, on the last day, I said, Hey, Matt, I said, I think Joel has a pretty good chance and he goes, You watch Freddy Krueger is gonna go out there and he's gonna. And he did you know, Matt knows Freddy. He knows the sport. And Joel just couldn't quite match it. But what a fun up and comer he is.
Tyler:
Absolutely. I mean, he's, I mean, to me, like one of the most perfect people to rise up into the sport to give the sport I knew, I guess. I guess a new look, you know, cuz for so long, we kind of get well, this is slalom, this is jumping. This is trick. Well, if you follow Joel polen on social media, he's doing all sorts of things. He's doing a front flip off the top of a dock tried to turn it away. He's up on the tip of his truck ski. He's doing tricks that nobody's ever seen. And he has kind of this. I don't know, he's got this vibe. You know, he's got this bump in his step where you know, you're just like, Man, this guy. He's going somewhere. And it's just fun to see that energy. I had the opportunity to announce for him a couple years ago, and we were at shalom Park and Alberta Edmonton over there in Canada. And I just week, we couldn't believe it. We're announcing the tournament. It's under 21 worlds. And we're going this guy going into the slalom event, if he runs 39 he needs three buoys at 41 to break the world overall record, which was Adam satisfiers. At the World Tournament. That's unheard of like you hear of the World Tournament record being broken, but not the world record being broken at the World Tournament. And I think he got to so he was like a buoy shy, a half blue sky of the world record. So going into this tournament. And I was sending some text to Matt Rainey as well, I go this guy, I mean, this guy's incredible. I mean, from from a talent standpoint, the way he wants to grow the way he wants to push the sport. And that's one thing when you're watching an athlete who's as talented as Joel polonez, but it's working as hard as Joe polonez. That is a recipe for tremendous success, he posted a flip that no one had ever done. And then he posted Well here is whatever my 100 tries of trying to do it where he's just like falling on his face. And that's what the people don't see. Right. And so that was awesome. He was so transparent to say like, like, it was a lot of work to do it. But I really excited to see what he's going to be able to do. Going back to that 2003 tournament with labor day when I skied against him and masters. And I ended up getting third as a junior there and overall and the other person who beat me was a guy by the name of Aaron rathi who mark or who rini was training at the time and rathi was like two or three years younger than us. And he was about ready to win the tournament. And at that time, I told I was like I've never seen anybody ski like this. This is this is phenomenal. And two years later, I think he went into wakeboarding and it's how to make I mean a great career was able to like transition and, and dude and go and do wakeboarding. But Joel Paulin, you know, really, really told me he's like, he's like the 2.0 version of that. I mean, and I just can't believe what he's doing. It's such a young age. I think john Poland's got one of the most promising ski careers in front of them than anybody in the sport. Right now,
Lynn:
I have to agree with that and, and speak by the scenes. So the other person that was in it was one of the Masters contenders. JOHN travers was also one of the technical controllers. Yep. So he not only put in the course along with Eli Usher back in May, but he was constantly running around underneath the behind the scenes, getting stuff done. changing his baby's diaper, I have a picture of john changing his baby's diaper. And constantly like ice, like, How the heck does he compete at the level he competes out? And does all that work in the background.
Tyler:
So going back to Chelsea Mills, his journey and how incredible that is. It's similar to when you compare what john travers is doing right now in the sport because not only from a technical controller aspect, but then he goes home and does ski school. And then he may go get a call to go put in another course at another lake. And you know, he's a new Dad, you know, he's traveling to the Masters making sure the jump is right, you know, so I'm out there doing that. And unless you've been in that position where you're trying to juggle all that stuff, and your energy is pulled in so many directions to go out there and perform against the best athletes in the world in the event. That's just one of those things that I look at and I go you know, that's just as impressive. Sometimes is podium at a big event.
Lynn:
It is what actually several years ago I was at Matt release like doing skier Palooza. And this was actually quite fun because on the dock with me at that time were several of the Masters contenders. So Paige Rainey, Brooke Baldwin, Neely, Ross, all of whom were in the masters and me are sitting on the dock because I was the only one in my age group get ready to go. And the wind came up during skier Palooza. And in the when the man started by then the wind was howling, and john still hadn't come because he was so busy back at his ski school that he had to get there just before he skied. So john gets there. And I skate both ratings and travelers a lot. So I know mall pretty well. And I said, I said john, you need to get going and I'm carry like he's he's dropping gloves and stuff on picking him up and following him up. He hasn't heard about how anybody skiing, but to this point, and he was well down in the lineup, lots of the top pro man, several of them hadn't even read 35 very few people would run 38 he goes out runs 39 and gets into 41. Wow. And what I what the conclusion I came to that day was that the best thing john can ever do is keep himself busy and not think about how everybody else is doing and just do what he does. I've seen him do.
Tyler:
And that's sometimes the best thing you know, you got to know where you stand in your sport and stay in that lane. You know, sometimes people like to get on the starting dock, kind of goof around before they go or some people like to watch the competition, I had a really good friend growing up that I used to ski against his dad intentionally paid the late entry fee. So he would not be seated at the nationals and he would be first off the dock I go all the way back to boys one when I meet this kid. And back then you know if you could run into 32 often boys one you're gonna win the event. And this guy goes out and runs five at 28 our first gear the day I'm top seat, I'm going, Man, this is this is crazy competition. I've never heard it. And then then we skied together later on. And he said, You know, my dad knew that. I would always get too nervous. So he just intentionally go pay the late entry fee and put me first in the lineup. So knowing where you who you are, and knowing yourself too, is a competitive advantage. Yeah,
Lynn:
well, john, John's ability to just go out and do it without having to like, get some kind of big preparation routine or anything like that is, I think a huge, huge advantage. But you know, back to so so I was just thinking about Okay, so Joe, Poland showed us his 100 false that taught him to make that flip. Right. That's what any Duke is talking about in her book as well about all the failed hands, she had to have all the money she had to lose, yes to win. And I don't think we talk about that enough with people, especially in this era of social media, where the pictures are the pretty pictures of our best life, as opposed to all the tries to get there.
Tyler:
I think you're exactly right. You know, and go into social media, there's two sides to this coin is well, we've got to fail to be able to learn and then there's the extreme side where people say, Well, you know, you've got to fail a million times to get something right. Well, it sure would be nice not to fail a million times. Right. And I don't think taking that approach either puts you on a necessarily as success path. If you're just willing to fail and you're okay with failing. Being okay to fail is I tried something new, and it didn't work out. Let me try this. Hang on. Let me try this angle. It's not committed to failure. That's, that's the big difference. And I see this big divide on social media about you know, you follow entrepreneurs, you follow motivated people and things like that, well, failing is good, but you can't be committed to it, you got to be committed to overcoming it. And that's, that's the big dividing line. But you're exactly right. We're in a world where you've got a 10 to 15 second clip that you're going to put out there on social media, people think that's the end result. And the reality of it is, that's never been the end result of all the hard work that it takes to go into it. And, you know, just like watching Freddie winter, go around for ball at masters, you know, Friday, if you, you know, was in practice, he probably takes down 41 off, right, like, he push that pass a lot further, but doing it at the time, and the place, and on Sunday in the masters. That's what's so impressive about that, but we know that he's more than capable of even running 41 off so well, why I say that's important is sometimes we only see the the the achievement of what happened in the tournament. But the reality of it is, that achievement probably happens every day in practice. We just don't see that highlight.
Lynn:
We don't. And, you know, have you heard of I think it was connected to Carl Lewis, the runner, the 80% rule. Have you heard of this? I heard him Hugh Jackman was talking to Tim Ferriss and one of his podcasts about this. And evidently, they were trying to understand how Carl Lewis could be so dominant. And when they studied him, they realized that when he kicked into a higher gear, he still was only at his 80%. Right. And that in a way, you have to almost be able to win the tournament on what you're 80% of practices, especially in waterskiing at the
Tyler:
end. That's that's what I've always said, like, if you take the most dominant female skier and Regina j quist, I would tell you that her margin of error is just much larger than everybody else's. Because, you know, she's probably getting into mid 41. Every day. Well, she has a bad day goes down at four ball at 39. She still ended a finals. Right and navy, even in the finals, she's still at the top of the podium. So there's a lot more margin there. And I think that's the same way for Friday, Ryan Dodd would be another one in the jump event and some of the professional tricks gears we could see, you know, I going back to the Masters Patricia font. He defended his title, he went back to back and I noticed he went down on his last trick and the the finals on his first pass. And I'm eyeballing it, I don't know if he's in 20 seconds, or it's out of 20 seconds. But I could tell where he fell and what was going to be in his next pass was not going to make a material difference from where the scores were. I think everybody at that point was stacked up at 9600. And I'm over there talent data on the microphone. I'm like, I mean, it may have looked like a fall. But that's nothing that I did. But he came back not only did he win the event, but even with the fall at the end of his first pass, he tricked 12,000 points with a fall. And so that just shows me when I look at a guy like Patricio fun. He's got so much margin there that here's the competition. But even if I don't show up and have my best day, I'm still okay. And he went for
Lynn:
it. That was unreal. And by the way, I've never been involved in the trip, judging or calling before. You are amazing at calling out a whole bunch of cars. Because I've never tricked but you are calling out the tricks and I was actually watching the trick judges mark their score sheet and they are wearing headsets they can't hear you. Because their job is to watch the video and call it for themselves. And actually many of them are actually using a recorder and calling it for themselves as it would go through is actually quite interesting to watch the process. How the heck did you learn how to do that Tyler?
Tyler:
Well, yeah, I grew up as an only child. I had a lot of so so going back let's let's let's stop here and pause on on announcing and how I even got involved in it because that will help explain how I got to that point to call tricks. I grew up in the sport. Just Just that that's I was born to be in the sport. Let's just put it that way. My granddad was a school teacher. He built boats out of his garage to teach the family how to ski in the late 1950s. My mom was on the world team in the 70s she was on the world team, like Mike Snyder. How is Alan Wayne Grandage. Let me pause on Wayne cribbage got to meet Wayne. So I'm born in 1985. The Pro water ski tour starts to hit its stride about the mid 80s into the early 90s. Well, one of the consistent announcer's on, there was always Wayne Grandage. And I finally get to meet Wayne later on. But up into that point what everybody would do in the waterski community was you had hot summer nights or whatever whenever it was, and go over to your VCR and you'd press record. Well, fortunately, my mom always pressed record. And I had this library of pro waterski tournaments from about 1987 to 94. And like I said, I was an only child, you know, there was not a whole lot of distractions at my house. And I almost became obsessive with watching those tapes. And so when I talk about Wayne, grim didj, a lot of what I say, on the microphone is styled after what Wayne says in those tapes. So if you go back, you'll even pull some of the, you know, highlight moments. I think one just went went viral with who is sad. Ferguson crashed in 2019. And it was picked up by a senate official meeting there, they're only posting crashes, and it's got over a quarter of a million views right now. Well, there's a line in there at the very end. I mean, she goes outside to buoy. And then she just launches and goes into over in and I say something like, and this is when you decide you're going to throw the dates right? As her body looks like dice rolling through the air. Right. So but but that that goes all the way back to looking at I believe it's a 1988 tape, it might be in Shreveport, where Wayne is announcing and Andy's on the water. And Andy's coming through. And he said in Andy mapple is on the water and he can slice it and dice it with the best of them. So I ate a lot of those sayings. I probably have. If you want it to go on the 10,000 hour rule. There's nobody I can tell you this there is nobody that's watched those tapes more than I have. I it is it is so embedded into my mind. When I see something I just call it. And it's again styled after Wayne. There was a lot of other guys out there. Our Ekman was doing and at the time, there's a guy I've tried to reach out to he was one of the best announcers I've ever heard in our sport that knew nothing about waterskiing coming in. And he was in the early 90s. His name is Dan devanand. And if you listen to Dan, everybody loves Dan. But Dan really didn't have an idea. The first thing about waterskiing. So fast forward to the pastor's. I'm announcing I'm doing this thing every time there's a hot microphone ever since I was about seven years old, grew up skiing in Colorado. And they run tournaments really good there. And they always had a microphone and my friend wil mills and Dave vote, these guys would go over and they'd pick up the microphone with me and we'd announce a whole tournament nobody cared that a 789 10 year old would announce, which kind of gave me my start. I get to college. I'm at Louisiana Monroe. We're having a tournament on the bayou. And there's a hot microphone, somebody says, we'll go pick it up. And somebody needs to pick it up and announce it. Well, I started announcing it. It's a lot different than I would announce the Masters because we're in the collegiate scene. But there's some there's some comedy laced into what's going on. You never know what you're quite gonna get. And Matteo was there he was there. He skied for Louisiana. Lafayette, Oh, wow. Matteo, we became really good friends. I ended up leaving Monroe. After I graduated and Matteo goes, dude, I really think you have a chance to announce the Masters we need something like that at the masters. So I think Matteo started by getting on ski fly. And he just kind of put my name out there and said, you know, heard Tyler announce, I think he's doing a pretty good job. What can we do? You know, is it anybody pick it up? I don't hear anything. It's not, you know, I'm not expecting anything from it. And then one day, not he gives me a call Jen Abel from na t gives me a call. Because I've never heard you announce. But I'm going to take a chance on you. And we're going to put you in the booth. And, you know, we haven't heard anything bad. So we're just assuming it's all gonna be okay. And that was in 2009. I believe that was my first Master's. And I ended up announcing since then, when I came into that it's a much of the same of the conversations today. I said, I'm gonna announce tricks the way it needs to be announced. Okay, I'm just gonna do it. Because up to that point, I'd go to local tournaments and all the tournaments in the judges and officials say just to like, to your point when they needed to call the tricks, they didn't want to listen to the announcer that was going to mess them up. I said, Well, I I'm a staunch supporter that this is about the athlete, and this is about the fan, we, I think we can work together to get the run called right. And that masters I called every trick. And for the last 11 years, I will be I have called it and as long as I get the opportunity to continue to do it, I'm going to call it now I don't announce every trick every time I try to put some variation in there. But that's how that all started. So a lot of what yeah, it's an even going back to when you look at Tricks, and You look about how to call them. There's 1000s of hours spent outside of those pro tournaments, because those pro tournaments in the 80s and 90s, don't have tricking them, they have freestyle job, which I absolutely love as well. But you'd have maybe Corey picos doing a trick exhibition or something. So you would have to go grab the tournament trick runs that, you know, I had, my dad was a technical controller, I believe, early 2000s, maybe late 90s, with Gene Davis. And we were we ended up getting a copy of the tournament, trick recorded runs. And I sat there and I watched them and watch them and watch them until I memorized them. And that's how I got to call tricks. And I will tell you that. On another note, I will say I'm probably one of the only people to do it. Certainly there's more people that are more than capable of doing it. I mean, you put up anybody that's a trigger up there, they can do it. But I'm not a trick judge. Yeah, yeah. So you heard what you heard, but I'm not a trick judge.
Lynn:
Well, I was impressed with the trick judges, I'm going to tell you that right now, and how quickly they get it together. So one of my very complicated Jobs was to get the timing sheet and the five trick forms, the judging sheets over to the scores as quickly as possible. So I was over there running my own version of masters, which is how fast can I get it out of their hands and into the right hands. So if anybody saw me down there, I would have looked like a chicken with my head cut off because I'm like running around trying to figure out who's about to hand me their form. Oh, wait, there we see the replay. You know, if anybody ever doubts that it's being well cared for, though, those guys really, really take that job.
Tyler:
Oh, and that's and I, you know, there's so much confidence when I'm on the microphone that they're going to call the rod, right? Obviously, I don't want if there was ever an issue, I wouldn't want anybody to win or lose based on something that they, you know, heard for me, right, that was either a trick, I will tell you this, this is an amazing thing that everybody overlooks. And it took somebody that was at the top of the sport for a long, long time to bring it back to my attention from the spectators point of view of tricking, and it happens at every tournament. I'm up there two years ago, and we have guests in the booth. None other than Britain, Tom Larson. Okay, great. Britain, Tom Larsen are announcing tricks with me. And Britt turns towards me at some point, and she goes, Tyler, there's no horn. And I go, you're right. And, and I see that it got so technical on the trick side of it, from the perspective of the viewer, the person trying to learn about the sport, or even in the sport, trying to see if a trick was in time. We have lost that, right? Because here's, here's my pitch, and you probably heard it all weekend long. Okay, we're in the trick of act that's to 22nd passes to get as many tricks as you possibly can. But they've got to be in the 20 seconds. Well, there's no measurement of the 20 seconds anymore. And so we'll see runs, and I call him like, well, he's gonna trick all the way down in the link. Well, time probably expired five seconds, seven seconds before all those tricks, but to the audience, they don't know that. And I think one of the important things that we can do from an accounting perspective, and certainly an education perspective of the trick sport is to bring back the horn. Even if the horn is not down to the enth degree, it doesn't even really matter. It's for the spectator.
Lynn:
Right, because you can't tell I always was wondering how they could tell when it began and ended. Yeah, that that tells me There used to be a sound that you could use. Yeah.
Unknown:
I mean, growing up, that was one of the fun things as a kid to be like during a tournament because if you could get the air horn away from the judges, you blow it in a couple people's ear. Yeah, you'd have air horns. And that went to it went to a siren, type of sound. And then it just completely went away. And, you know, at the Masters in particular, I mean, there's a lot of people that come to watch the Yvette and a lot about the event is like one about the athletes how to display their talent, what the narrative is behind that. But also the education of the sport and I would like to see our sport bring back the horn. Yeah,
Lynn:
I can. I can see why too. And by the way, speaking of people up in the booth with you, we have to mention, Dan. Oh, the man. Oh, yep. You guys have a great rapport. Well, thank
Tyler:
you. Yeah, Danny. He's, uh, he's been truly amazing. I honestly, I can't do that tournament without Dan. Oh, he is so good. And he is so well loved and appreciated by everybody that's on site. And you know, you go talk to the the fans, the athletes, the vendors. I mean, he really knows so much more about the sport as a tone, you know, Toad watersports. He likes to call it he's very connected in and, you know, it's, it's one of those things like, I know, when he's gonna go, he knows where I'm gonna go. And it's nonstop action. And that's the difficulty of doing that tournament verse, a local tournament is, we had crowds that we've never seen on Robin, like, right, they came to see a show. And we hopefully will give them a really, really good show. And that's also broadcast over a webcast. So how do you balance that act between being on site? And then how do you put it into a webcast, and a lot of times, there's going to be some overlap. Of course, if you were doing it a different way, like, if I was just doing it for the webcast, it would be a different style of announcing that if I was on site. But I, you know, danno does such a great job. And I've just, you know, thrilled every year that I get to work with them, because I think we found a really good balance to that. But then I would also say there's a third element, we just touched on it earlier, the third element. Now, it's not just an announcer being on say, balanced with the announcer on the webcast. It's creating the narrative in the moment that will live after the tournament on social media, because the clips you're seeing picked up now from the Masters is, you know, Freddie winters extension around four ball. Well, that's 15 second moment of time, that has to be captured that has to live on, you can't miss that. And the challenge for me is, I know when Friday winner, Freddy Krueger, those guys are in the lineup, I can pour my heart into it, because something is probably going to happen very special there. But there has been clips that have been posted that word from the preliminary round of someone I've may have never heard of that's a junior, that are just as phenomenal for social content. I can't miss that. Because we could go back, cut that clip, put it out on social media. And now we've got something that is really, really special, even though they may not be an everyday name in the sport. You know, you say you got to be ready. It's three layers.
Lynn:
It is it is three layers, because the people on site, you know, I watch a lot of web. I do both. I've actually hosted a couple of pro waterski tournaments myself and had didn't know you then I had other announcers. They were good too, by the way. But But you have to have that announcing and it is different on the web than it is in person. Yeah. And I've seen a lot of places where the announcing in the stands and the announcing that's going on TV, for example. That's two different sets of announcers. Yeah, so two different audiences really.
Tyler:
So there's social media right now have a clip of Joe Pollan's to 21 of the preliminary and it's taken from the beach of Robin like, and the announcing that hits that iPhone sounds a whole lot different from a spectators point of view, then the announcing that's on the webcast. So when you compare these and like, this is stuff that I've been studying my whole life, and I've been doing it, you know, whenever over a decade in our sport, so I'm well aware of, you know, people are going to have different preferences of what a tournament should sound like, and all these types of things. But the reality of the Masters is, it's all about being there, and being present. And being in the moment. Of course, we want to do a good job on the webcast. Yeah. But first, there's a lot of people there, and they need to get up because you It didn't you feel the energy when you were there from the piano?
Lynn:
Well, I one point, I'm making a game out of counting people and counting crowds, kind of like I count cattle when I was a kid, we'd have to go out and count cattle in the field. And so it's quick estimate kind of counting by fives. But at one point between the beach that was down right by the pavilion and the one actually across the way. I think there were 3000 people on the beach.
Tyler:
Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then people. Yeah, it's I know it was record crowds. I wish I could get the official count on it. But yeah, definitely 1000s of people. And so there's a balancing act that comes along with that. And Daniel and I are very well aware of, you know, the energy and how to get that energy going. Because we know, especially when we get to the jump of that, right, I mean, if, if the jump event is hyped up, you can feel the buzz and people are coming down to the shoreline, and you got to bring it to keep the energy moving.
Lynn:
It was it was absolutely moving. And speaking of balancing acts, I think this is one of those things that you only notice, because it when it doesn't work, who are constantly doing a given take. For each other. It is a dance between the two of you, which is again, very difficult to do. It's easy to step over each other.
Tyler:
Right. Right. And that's, and that's just really good report, when you hear it between the announcers. Right. And one of the things I love to say, as an announcer in our sport, I love to see a bunch of people jumping on the microphone. You know, last week, the waterski broadcasting company does an incredible job, Tony, crew, and then the company. Yeah, and to hear Matt Rooney's take on it. And then I'm a huge Wade Cox fan, as well. Is is on there, and he's breaking down everything that Wade can break down. And there's so many people that are so good out there. That's one of the things so I also announced football, I announced division one football, and if not for the opportunity to do some commentating on that of the current announcer who was willing to bring me in the booth and just be open to that idea. Never would get the opportunity. And I think so many times what happens. I mean, it's not just in our sport, but it's in sports all the way around is, it's just so hard to find that talent to give somebody the opportunity. So I love hearing multiple voices and whatever, whatever we can do to make the sport better. And get it out there. I'm all for it. Absolutely.
Lynn:
Well, it's funny, because I was watching the like, 38 tournament right afterwards. And you know what, what Vincent stadel Bauer and Tony Lightfoot are doing with the waterscape, right and wide Cox with the waterski Broadcasting Company, is really taking what you do for once a year and moving it into more of the tournament scene where we actually have a series to watch of professional waterskiing. It takes tremendous capabilities to build all that, like, you know, the technical side of this?
Tyler:
Well, it's it's an unbelievable amount of work. And that's the thing I show up to the Masters, there's a crew of eight people that have have it prepared behind me, and I get the opportunity to announce, but the great thing about that Lin is from a commentating perspective is we're going to get full narratives now of an entire season, I get a narrative that starts typically not this year, but typically with moomba. That's the first, you know, age of the chapter book of that season. And then we move into masters. Now when you have a series, and you're going to have moved, but you're going to have the Masters, you're going to have all the tournaments that are going to go into that Pro Series leading up to Worlds this year. By the time you get to Worlds this year, it's going to be phenomenal commentating because you have built stories around these athletes.
Lynn:
Yes. And that is actually when we think about every sport we watch whether it's golf, or football, or NASCAR or any other big sport. And we always wonder why is waterski not bigger. But I think the narratives and the stories is actually what makes every sport interesting.
Tyler:
And the best, the best sport that does it that's a bigger sport that doesn't get that much airtime is gymnastics. They knock it out of the park every Olympics. By the end, I would say professional snow ski. By the time by the time you see the gymnast or the skier up in the gates ready to let loose you you pretty much have a mini biography that was very well done, that you feel like you know them before they charge it. And that is that is really, really important. I've actually and I haven't had an opportunity to speak to with Marcus brown on that particular point. But Marcus is really really good at all the content that he puts together. I mean, the amount of work that he puts into the flow point is incredible. And I don't know if he would agree with that point. or not, as you know, gymnastics and snow skiing being being one of the best but I certainly think that he would think that that narrative perspective of how that's done from a video is so important. I will say this too. I will say this if I Announced what I thought were some of the best tournaments I've ever announced. And I went to go look at the video. And because the video was poor quality, it was the worst tournament I've ever had. I've I've announced tournaments on the opposite way. Oh, this is really bad. Go back and look at the video. The video was phenomenally done by the webcast. And it brushes over a lot of flaws that announcers make. And so it's this combination, right? It's an art you're searching for. How can that announcing style and the commentary and everything like even that dockside? What Wade's doing, how do we blend all that together with this incredible production for eyes to see and what we're listening to, to create the moment. And it's it's a hard balancing act. But that's what I think we're all after.
Lynn:
That's what we're all after. And you're right. You had a huge team behind you. There were four people on the scoreboard. There were five people on the webcast, I noticed because I was delivering their lunches. I almost had their names memorized, and who would read it. But, um, but what? I have this quote, you know, you mentioned Marcus Brown, I skied with him I skied with him off and on for several years. And one of the questions I was always asking is, how is it that the most addictive sport that I have ever experienced? I've never seen a sport get people literally addicted like waterskiing. Like I'm waiting to figure out what my next fix is, is the way people think about it. Right? Is it not growing? And, and yet, at the same time, there was a conflict I had because I started I got it, I got addicted, I kind of became like the let me get everybody going in my life. So I got all these women hooked on waterskiing with me. And then I actually lost my waterski time. Because I'm on a small public life where we can only handle one or two people skiing at a time without getting just to be to, like, if you think the Masters is bad, you ought to come to my like, it's 100% vertical walls. So 1010 minutes to clear rollers, you litter, it's literally unscalable for like a good five minutes after every pass. It's that's how bad it is. So that I ended up solving that, by the way by buying the cat behind angle. Water. So now I have my my ski like but but I think this is a dilemma faced by a lot of people. So have you thought about this question? And if so, kind of What are you looking at is the way we grow the sport?
Tyler:
Well, and so going back to Matteo, I had the opportunity to talk to him at masters. And I know that they're doing a lot of things with the promotion of pro waterski tumor and things like that, which is greatly needed. I think, for so long, we've been in the conversation with little action. And now we're seeing massive action, right? We're seeing them promote the sport. We're seeing what Tony is doing over there with his crew at the waterscape broadcast company. Now we've got something in place that looks like it's going to be viable. Now. It's just about promoting it and getting people there getting people interested. You go back to the 80s and the 90s. There's, it's it's almost like well, how did you go from being on hot summer nights on ESPN to being completely off mainstream media. And I think there is no way to have this conversation without talking about a death of 1000 cuts. We could talk about sponsors, we could talk about roles, we could talk about how the lakes were set up, we could talk about so many things. But the reality of it is today is the only thing that matters. And I can tell you today, all we are doing is fighting for the attention of people's time. And they are there is a million things you can watch on TV, there's a million things you could go search on the internet and social media. And I am to where you are of if people experience it, and people embrace it, then it's just about getting them involved in the sport. And after that you're hooked. The interesting thing to me when I go talk to older people about how they got started in scheme, and when I say older people I'm talking about people that kind of grew up when boats were really mainstream. Like I said, My family's been involved into this since the 1950s where you almost had to build your own boat to go do it right. But let's look at somebody that heard about skiing on Wide World of Sports in the 1970s. Well, I have talked to numerous of these people. And they always said, you know the fascinating thing about waterskiing to me is when we first started was how do you glide across water and then once you do that feeling of gliding across the water, that's what got them into the sport. We've completely lost that. And that's why I look at things where like Marcus is doing to go back to him where he was really anything is trying to hit a broader audience right coming up with different ski shapes to try to you know, get people out on various parts of water you would not normally think was an ideal condition. But feeling that is such an important part of it because once you become a skier, there is not a body of water that you pass that you're saying there could be a slalom course right there, man. That's right.
Lynn:
I was driving down. So I went to my introduction to the course was at Cobo ski school with April Coble, former masters contender, and I believe champion and world champion at one point, and April was driving us to get ice cream like she does at ski school when we pass the river not far from COBOL ski school where they have all these ski lakes. And I still looked at the river and I said, April, I think you could get a ski course in there. And she said, Lynn, every skier I know looks at every body of water, and measures it and figures out, they could get a ski course in there. That's actually how my ski like came to be. It's a long road behind the grocery store not far from me. And I drove along that road counting off 1/10 of a mile, two tenths of a mile, three tenths of a mile. And I was like, and
Tyler:
yeah, no. And that's, and that's the truth of it. I mean, there's so many arguments, and I'm right up there with anybody who could probably debate it for hours on Dan. But I think we just find ourselves where we are. And we can't reminisce too much in the glory days of the pro tour and how the fans work. We live in a completely different world. And I think still we have this sport that can be brought to the mainstream, but people have got to experience it. And the issue that we're battling is, it's just there is so much to go do now that it is very tough, but it's a generational thing to I don't see people that are millennials going in and wanting to learn how to traditional three about water ski that is more geared to, you know, the surfboard, surfing behind the boat, that kind of thing. It's interesting to see the evolution of competition. When I was a kid, all I wanted to do was compete, the people that are coming up. I mean, obviously, you're gonna have your competitors that want to compete in the sport. But I don't know if there's as strong as a desire to compete anymore. And I haven't quite put my finger on that one.
Lynn:
You know, I do agree with you on that. I think I've seen the same thing, although it's interesting, because I've watched ever at the ski school where Austin is has brought many people into the sport, people who couldn't either even get up onto skis are now running the course, and totally hooked, buying skis, you know, buying vests, they're there they are the real target market. And watching their addiction is really interesting, but very few of them are that interested in tournaments, right. And for me, I'll tell you what happened with me with tournaments I did. I did them for a while, I thought it was going to be really exciting and fun. And what I found was, first of all, I do tend to ski in tournaments pretty much exactly like I do in practice. I only had one event where I did not completely match my practice score. So it wasn't like I was going to go test myself at that point. I was like, Well, okay, this probably not trying hard enough, because I can do that. But the other thing was, it's not as many passes, I could ski two or three sets on a Saturday for six pass sets. If I wanted to go to a tournament, I might get four passes the whole day maybe? Or you know, for sure. For me in the first round, so what is this game?
Tyler:
Well, and you just you I mean, for me personally, that's exactly where I am. I cannot I can go ski a six round slalom tournament in a weekend. But there is really no desire to go do that. I since I grew up as a three inventor, I really want to go into the weekend and do all three events and have the challenge of doing those for a cumulative score. And and when these ideas about slalom, let's just hone in on Psalm because most people do slalom, I would love it. You know if we got into a well, we're going to put one ball on the other side of the course this round. We're not gonna have the gates this round, oh, we're gonna go two miles an hour slower this round. And whatever your cumulative score is at the end, and I'm not saying that's the right you know, mixture of all that. But I think for a person like me that variety is is amazing. You know, like that is a that is a challenge where I actually have to sit there and think about, you know, what am I going to do here that's going to be different. kind of puts it more in lines of like a really tough golf shot. You don't really plan on being in the sand trap. But once you are you got to play it and If everybody played from the sand trap, who would be the best? Who would be the best if we went two miles an hour slower?
Lynn:
You are just so it's interesting because reading Annie Dukes book talking about uncertainty. Really when she's saying thinking in bats. what she was saying is I'm going to teach you how to be really smart in the face of uncertainty. Right? And you just described uncertainty in a sport that is, like, as Jeff Rogers once said to me, when I was talking about how good he is, like, the movies are always in the same place every single time. I you, I have been puzzling. Since I fell off a horse three years ago and decided to get back on I've since written close to 40 different horses taking lessons in multiple places, because I said, I can either never get back on the horse again. Or if I do get back on the horse, I need to accept the odds a little bit better in my favor, not to get thrown like I did, right. And what I have discovered about trail riding is there's a saying where people say, well, it's just trail riding. Well, I don't care if you're in a you know, your local dude ranch, or with your friends out on the trail, there is nothing more uncertain than taking a horse on a trail. In all those rides, what I've discovered we had last week, we had a deer come crashing out of the woods into the horses, instead of away from the horses. The next ride, we got to pass the black snake, the next ride we had turkeys flying by. Right? Right. I've been out where I we had pigs, I watched somebody had their saddle slide slot right off to the side, I'd watched somebody get thrown into the creek. There is so much uncertainty because you're dealing with animals and so forth. And I actually think you just nailed why I find it so interesting. Because Yeah, I go out saying I want to be challenged to see if I can handle whatever today is gonna bring
Tyler:
absolutely Well I'll tell you this, I'm really excited. I'm I'm planning on going to ski the Nationals this year, which I have not done in a
Lynn:
while exciting.
Tyler:
And I'm trying to get my body to where I can actually do it. But you know, people say, well, it's Illinois, you never know what the weather is going to be predictable. My opinion is, I hope it's an absolute blowout. Because if it is, I'm gonna have a lot of fun, be thinking about how I'm going to handle it. And it's going to be totally different than I would normally get like, I'm just that type of person. I don't want anybody to get hurt. Like I don't want the conditions to be to where people are getting hurt. But I do like the I do like the adversity. Here's another little interesting thing. I learned this when I was 18 years old. I remember I actually remember I was at a at a dinner with Liz Alan Reed and her son Brody because we used to ski against each other when, you know, back in the junior days, and I was playing football and skiing at the time. And I said, you know, and we were at the team trials, trying to make the team and I said the thing that bothers me about skiing as at that time, Jimmy seamers was, you know, top world overall champion world jump record holder, I said, Jimmy goes out there and he skis his best or even below his best, but right up to it, I will never beat him. I will just I will never beat him. But you know, in the game of football, I can always have a chance at a hail mary. And, and there's there's so many factors that go into that where I could win a game. So the only way I could beat Jimmy seamers is if he had a horrible day, right, but he fell on his opener. in football, it's not like that. There's too many variables that can take place. They could just they could have just not played the game very well. And you came out on top as the underdog. And so what I would like to see is how do we that's why the Chelsea mill story is good, right? You got this on your dog. She's 26 years old, she gets on a slalom ski for the first time now she's at the masters. That's an underdog story. So how do you condense that into an event where you have the best people? Well, you've got to have an underdog story. You've got to have an underdog situation. What is it every time we watch the Olympics on skiing? Oh, my goodness, they were out here the night before the conditions are really icy look at their skis chattering up, somebody went into the guard rails. And you're looking at that and there's this uncertainty that builds around the event. There's there's there's an anticipation for something. And that's what I don't know what the right answer to that is. Anything that we would pine on that right answer would be met with criticism because it's going to be different. But I think if we could find how to mix in those variables. That uncertainty would certainly make it really, really interesting.
Lynn:
Well, it's funny because in the research on to Annie Dukes book, she actually talks about that. He said, when they gave rats something on a regular schedule, they'd get bored. And when she when they did not get the reward at all, they would give up. But if it was intermittent and uncertain, they'll do it all day long. Yeah. And believe it or not, I think that's why Facebook has is so friggin hooked. And all the social media, as as I've heard, it said, We are so overmatched on the things that do get us addicted. Because the science of the brain is that intermittent uncertain reward is actually the most provocative. So Exactly.
Tyler:
I mean, it's just like going to the horse track, right? You got an odds, you got a way to bet. But like, it's rare that the one that has the best odds ever wins, right? Like, just the way it is. And you're like, well, I don't know, 118? I don't know, maybe I you know, and you start to play it out. How cool would it be to be there and say, Well, I don't know. I mean, the best score today could be three at 38 instead of three at 41. For whatever the variable was. I don't know. But, you know, it's I'm all for to see, you know, how far we can push it from traditional scheme. But I think from the spectators perspective, you know, it'd be fun to mix it up with some variables, or at least be fun to announce.
Lynn:
Well, and so let it be said that your your care about the sport and you also are going to tell the story of the sport right
Tyler:
now. That's what we want to do. I don't I don't want to be. You know, we everybody in the sport of waterskiing, the greatest thing about it is it's a volunteer sport, for the most part, right? A lot of us are in here, we're just having fun. We're volunteering. It's certainly not something that I'm hanging my hat on is like, I'm going to have a career of announcing in the sport of waterskiing. But it is something where I have the utmost respect for the athletes have poured all their skill, time and talent into this thing. But I just want to do it justice when I call the narrative.
Lynn:
And you do. Having been there, I can say that I was, I think the thing that struck me the most was how close what you were saying on the microphone was mirroring what I was experiencing amongst the officials at any given moment. I appreciate that, that really, that really didn't happen by accident. So Well, now that we've solved all the problems of the waterski world and figured out how to get everybody to grow, it's probably time for us to start wrapping this up. But tell me tell me. First of all, I always like to end my podcasts by asking my guests to think about for the for the audience's listening, what kind of request would you make up them for them? To think about? Or what would you encourage them to notice? Or do or try? You know, and this is good. This is you know, this audience is mixed. It's athletes, a lot of waterski athletes, but it's also a lot of business people, a lot of other kinds of athletes, and entrepreneurs and so forth. But what would you ask my audience?
Tyler:
I think two things. One would be why do I do what I do? You know why? I mean, just take your everyday walk of life. Why am I in the career? And then? Is it because somebody told me that I was really good at it? Is it because I need to put food on the table? Is it because that when I went to college, I majored in this specific thing. And that's what I've, you know, told myself that I need to do, because I think once you start to peel back those layers, you start to realize some of that can be absolutely true. But there are other things in which we find ourselves doing things that, you know, we could do so much better, right? That may not just because somebody told me something in the first grade doesn't make make it true when I'm 36 years old. And and and that that's kind of going back to that growth mindset book of the fixed mindset, right? Like, trying not to get your mind to say, Well, this is who I am. This is who I'll always be. So I'm going to, I'm going to not try. The other thing. And this was great wisdom given to me at one point. You know, you watch people who are avid readers of the news, okay, they can tell you every headline making tell you everything that was in the news the next day, and then they just continue to do it. One day, somebody came to me says, If you can't put the news into your life, and make a material difference, why would you even read it? And I started to think about that. If I can take a headline out of the business section about investing, and let's just take Facebook. This is one that I've been learning about for a while here. Okay, what? At the beginning of Facebook, they'll never make money. read the headlines, right? So I'm not going to look at it. But on the flip side of it, they had a billion users or whatever they have, at some point, Facebook knew they were going to make money because they had the network effect. And there were some people ahead of the curve, that could see that those headlines, were actually going to connect down the road, or how they would relate to their life. And then they made the decision that from an investing standpoint, was probably a really good decision at that time. I think a lot of times we take in information, and then we fail to do anything with it, to relate it to our life to make change. And that's been a real challenge for me, as I read, and as I learned, it's like, okay, that's great, you know, we could go out and get really, really smart and, and say a lot of cool things. But if it materially doesn't impact your life, and you have no way to integrate it with your life, it's probably just more of a hobby and and not really materially affecting the success you can achieve.
Lynn:
That's, that's very powerful. It also could save yourself from a lot of worrying. Yes, you're not going to take in things you can't do anything about.
Tyler:
Yeah. So for up to that point, I'm using that now. And I'm on the My Bitcoin thesis that I've been on that I believe that it's going to be stronger than gold one day. And it's based on the network effects that I learned from the news and learn being involved with Facebook, LinkedIn, and social media that were basically in this network that's expanding right now. So the price really doesn't need to make sense as long as the network is made whole and solid.
Lynn:
That's that's a whole nother podcast. I'll tell you that because I know a lot of people are still trying to figure Bitcoin out. They think it's not real they think it's a sham they don't understand it is electronic money, basically. So I will add some links to the show notes about ways to do some education on Bitcoin. Do you have any particular reference that you love more than any other
Tyler:
Preston fish? Preston fish, the investors podcast at Preston fish on Twitter? Okay, Preston fish, as a value investor, started out doing the investors podcast with his co host stick, bro derson, about six years ago, and he started out as a warren buffett guy all the way down. And now he's one of the main speakers at the Bitcoin conference and has gone all the way to Bitcoin. And Preston is he's former military, very, very well spoken, very smart. And he is a guy that I can tell you, at some point in life, you can't meet your mentor physically, so you got to go find them. And this is my mentor for that space. Even though he doesn't know it. So big, big Preston fish fan.
Lynn:
I love it. Well, that's one of the reasons I love doing podcasts like this is because it's giving me an opportunity to take the kind of mentors I get, and the people I get to meet and put them out in the world. so other people can learn from him just like we have for you today. So awesome. Well, it was a pleasure, lad. We'll do it. We have to but let me ask this question. How can people find you because if anybody needs an announcer for football or skiing, you're the guy. So just get absolutely.
Tyler:
My website is pretty simple. It's just Tyler Boyd, T-y-l-e-r-b-o-y-d.com Tyler Bo d. com. My legal website is M Cormick and boyd.com. So I am an attorney by trade if ou have any legal questions, and then on social media, so witter, LinkedIn, Face ook and Instagram, it's at Ty er B
Lynn:
So they're all the same. So you got them all the same? We didn't even touch on your legal practice. We didn't hardly, we didn't talk about your family, all those things we didn't get to. So we will have to do around two because we absolutely everybody I would love to do I would love to do a Bitcoin one. Absolutely. Well, we may just have to do that I may start gathering up some, even a Bitcoin panel because I've got more and more people in my world that are interested in it. So we have to play with that idea. So for people who are listening, before we sign off, if you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with your friends and colleagues and leave me or Tyler a message on my voicemail at my computer. It's at Lynncarnes.com on the podcast page, there is a voicemail button on the right you click that you can leave us a voicemail. Let us know what you love. Let us know your questions. Let us know what you want more of. So with that, we'll be signing off and see you on the next one. Thank you for listening to the creative spirits unleashed podcast. I started this podcast because I was having these great conversations and I wanted to share them with others. I'm always learning in these conversations and I wanted to share that kind of learning with you. Now what I need to hear from you is what you want more of and what you want less of. I really want these podcasts to be a value for the listeners. Also, if you happen to know Someone who you think might love them, please share the podcast and of course subscribe and rate it on the different apps that you're using, because that's how others will find it. Now, I hope you go and do something very fun today.
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