#59 Bruce Anderson: Is Pressure Really Bad
Today, I’m bringing back podcast Episode #3 with Bruce Anderson, of Nature’s View. Much of what I wrote about in my book Dancing the Tightrope came from learning how to get back on the horse from Bruce. He didn’t teach me riding skills. He helped me recalibrate my internal operating system to deal with the pressure created by the horse.
When we recorded this episode, I was a full year from getting back on Mocha, the horse that I fell off of in 2017. A lot of water has gone under the bridge since we recorded this episode. As a result, I’m hearing this with new ears, having experienced many, many episodes with far more pressure in the last three and a half years. At the time we recorded this, I was just beginning to understand and experience the value of making a mindset shift around the reality of pressure. While I could speak to it in some ways, I had not yet built into my regular set of practices the ability to consistently rewrite my past, thus raising my pressure threshold.
Welcome to Creative spirits unleashed, where we talk about the dilemmas of balancing work and life. And now, here's your host, Lynn Carnes.
Lynn:Welcome to the creative spirits unleashed Podcast. I'm Lynn Carnes your host. Today on bringing back podcast episode number three with Bruce Anderson of nature's view, much of what I wrote about in my book dancing the tightrope came from learning how to get back on the horse from Bruce. Now, Bruce didn't teach me writing skills. What he did do was helped me recalibrate my internal operating system to deal with the pressure created by the horse. When we recorded this episode, I was a full year from getting back on Mocha, the horse that I fell off of in 2017. A lot of water has gone under the bridge since we recorded this episode. As a result, when I went back to listen to this, I heard it with entirely new ears. I've experienced many, many episodes with far more pressure in the last three and a half years than the episode with Mocha. At the time, Bruce and I recorded this, I was just beginning to understand and experience the value of making a mindset shift around the value of pressure. While I could speak to it in some ways, and you will hear that in this podcast, I had not yet really built it into my regular set of practices. And now, I have consistently learned to rewrite my past and raise my pressure threshold with many of the moments of pressure that come my way. Now, if that doesn't make complete sense to you, that's okay. It's one of the reasons I'm republishing this conversation. The idea of a pressure threshold and have two different mindsets is a foreign concept. The analogy I like to use is that is the one introduced by David Foster Wallace in his speech to graduates at Kenyon College in 2005. In this speech, he's arguing against what he called the unconscious default setting the rat race, the constant gnawing sense of having had and lost some infinite thing. So he tells this parable in his speech, and it's this is this is the parable, there are these two young fish swimming along and they happen to meet an older fish swimming the other way, who nods at them and says, Morning boys, how's the water, the two young fish swim on for a bit, and then eventually one of them looks over at the other and goes, What the hell is water. As he says, in his speech, the point of the fish story is merely that the most obvious important realities are often the ones that are hardest to see and talk about. The fact is that in the day to day trenches of adult existence, banal platitudes can have a life or death importance. Another thing he said near the end of his speech and listen to this carefully, the capital T truth is about life before death. It is about the real value of a real education, which has almost nothing to do with knowledge and everything to do with simple awareness. Awareness of what is so real and essential, so hidden in plain sight all around us all the time, that we have to keep reminding ourselves over and over. This is water. Now, back to land talking. I'm going to take his analogy a little further. We are not fish. We are not fish, unaware of the water around us. We were made to breathe air, even as we must learn to live in water. In other words, living in people's world has caused us to lose touch with nature's world. We forgotten the world we were made for because the world we have made has become our pseudo air. We seek oxygen in the external in the approval of others and being held in economic slavery and and being run by frankly, our own BS. But what if we could live in water and still breathe fresh air? What if we are more like dolphins than fish? Fish only know one world. Dolphins are very aware of the water world and the world above. In other words, they walk into worlds. So can we. So as I republish this podcast, I would love for you to listen to it, with the awareness that there are two worlds and often the world that we live in the people's world has conditioned us to behave in ways to act out in ways that do not serve us and are not us and are not our fault. Our work is to recalibrate our internal operating system. And Bruce does a beautiful job of explaining how to do that in this podcast. I hope you enjoy this republishing of an app Episode with Bruce Anderson of nitrous view. Bruce, welcome to the podcast.
Bruce:Well, thanks, Lynn. Welcome to our porch
Lynn:we have, just for the sake of the people who are listening, we are sitting, it's midnight, almost late November, it's a gorgeous sunny day, we are surrounded by horses and chickens and a dog. With all the guidance that says when you do recordings like this, watch out for background noise, we just are going to have some background noise, let it go, we're gonna have some chickens people, it's gonna be okay. The horses are far enough away that all we have to worry about is his limb gonna go off in la la land wishing she was down there with the horses, nothing against you. But I do love that I do, I hope we get into a lot of talk about horses and mistakes with horses and my passion for horses. But here we are. And I just want to welcome you. And and I want to start, I want to start in the middle about the middle. So you do an exercise with your clients about finding the middle of the round pen.
Bruce:Yeah, it's sort of interesting. The quote unquote work that I do. I guess we sort of fell onto it, we didn't consciously start this journey. And in this journey, it sort of has evolved and continues to evolve. And certain exercises that have come to pass, I gain more and more knowledge, at certain points of the journey, for whatever reason. And one of the exercises, which is kind of the first exercise that I do in the round pen with the person on the horse is to have the person find the middle. And I always say that the round pen is actually not the round pen, but a metaphor of your life a second of your life. So in doing that exercise, if you think about it, it's almost like living your whole lifetime. In that exercise.
Lynn:Yes, it is because I've done it.
Bruce:And it's also in doing the exercise keyword there's in which is one of the words that has evolved from this work. And doing the exercises, you're learning how to be in the moment. So you're living a lifetime, and you're learning to be in the moment. And the horse is no longer a horse, but a metaphor of significant other, your kids, co workers yourself, life and death. So it's not the horse, but the pressure crea by the horse, and also the pressure created by this round pen. It's amazing when people walk into that round pen, how everything changes for them. And even though you would have watched somebody do the exercise when you yourself going, it's amazing how a lot of people can't do what they had set out to do. So this first exercise is to find the middle and I'd give them a rock and say to them Go find the middle of the ramp, and I'm one of the first things I realized is that the round bend is actually not round. Which is great, because it not been round. It's sort of a metaphor of our life. You know, the world we live in, it's not round. And it was if everything was perfect, we wouldn't be alive. Because my How should I say, my definition of perfection is is to me death, right, which is not a bad thing. But that is the most perfect thing. Or one of the most perfect things that I can think of at this part of the journey. So that exercise is go find the middle. And the other day I was working with this young man, we were doing this exercise, finding the middle. And it's a two part to this exercise. So the person would go in place a rock on the ground, and I would say something like, how do you know you're in the middle? And they usually would say, Well, I think it's the middle. But they're not really sure. And then I would ask them, How did you find the middle and a lot of them. It's amazing how they don't quite know how they found it. So when I start pushing it, usually it breaks down to what I look at four points, which is sort of like north, south, east and west. And then what I would do at this point is give them four flags. And let's say they're blue flags and I will say to them, okay, place the blue flags were those Four points were that you had looked at, to find the middle. And they go off and they do that. And then what I have them do is Okay, forget about this first exercise. Let's move on to the second exercise. In the second exercise, we're still working on finding the middle. But I do not want you to focus on finding the middle. Because when you did the first exercise, the first thing you did was you walked away you perceive the middle was, and then you started working on finding the middle. The second exercise, which is still under the heading of finding the middle, I sort of show you not to worry about the middle, I asked what are the steps that you have to find to find the middle or have to take to find the middle. And the first thing is to find the first point. So we would take one of those blue flags. And we place an orange flags and have now given you four orange flags. So you put an orange flag right next to one of the blue flags, let's say for argument's sake on the north side. So then, the next thing that one needs to do is cut the ramp and in half. So what I would say to people is, let's say, for example, that the round pen area is 12. So if you cut it in half, what are you going to have? Well, it's sort of interesting how most people would say something like, well, I'll have six. And what they're saying is that one half would be six, and the other half would be six. And there goes the rooster.
Unknown:Boy, so so
Bruce:I'm not going to unless you want me to get into the story of when they just say six or not six and six. Right. So we'll just leave that for now. Because that takes us down another level. And what we'll move on to is, basically they want to cut the rabbit in half. So what they then do is a
Lynn:and can I because the interesting thing right away is what comes to me is I'm hearing that rooster is he wants to be heard. Hey, thanks. It's morning. It's midday, Mr. We know it's not sunrise. Fun, because we're recording we weren't.
Bruce:So what's going through your mind right now with the roosters doing that? This is
Lynn:this is a great example of our experience with a round pen because I feel like I I kind of am laughing at it until the point where he like, it's almost like he's trying to be as noisy as he can. I've never heard him this loud.
Bruce:And then I'm doing that. What is it doing to you? So my negative? Yeah. It's gonna cool because but then in the past, you get pissed off because you're trying to have this perfect. You know what cast? Yeah, you know, and you're getting ignored under the same time? Do you feel yourself like? No, don't do that? Yes. Do you see? Do you feel yourself bringing yourself back? And
Lynn:yes, and because of the work we've done, like the negative pole goes up, and it's like, there is really not much we can do other than stop. We have to go on anyone tried to talk about catching a rooster. It's, this is our lives right here.
Bruce:Do you want to give a little definition of the negative? So people can understand?
Lynn:Let me explain. Because that's actually why I was interrupting is I wanted to say the point of the middle the point,
Bruce:why did you interrupt? Because I've felt because you're negative.
Lynn:And I was putting myself actually
Bruce:no, it's not about telling the story finding the middle, it's capturing this moment,
Lynn:moment. Yes. And here we are live in the work. Because it took me at least five or six times of either working with you or bringing clients to work with you to really understand. We were finding the middle, which was known in my head and I won't use the F word but it was the effing middle. I was very annoying. It felt like an impediment to doing what I really wanted to do, which was do whatever I could do with the horse. And what I have come to understand is what we're doing is we're working on our internal guidance system, which is warped because of our upbringing.
Bruce:So are you saying that what you realize is, we're actually not doing anything with the horse. In doing with the horse, we're actually working on ourself that's a byproduct through the horse. That's
Lynn:exactly right. And what I've come to realize in terms of the negative and positive pole, which is the way the internal guidance system gets activated, it's like a battery with a positive and negative and you can feel it charged through your body. And from birth. We've been feeling that. However, we didn't learn how to read it. And it often went off when a parent was scolding us telling us stay out of the hot stove, don't run in front of the car, you've made a bad grade, you've hit your sister, and all the things that our conditioning of life has come kind of piled on us to say there's something wrong with me. So instead of my internal guidance system going, there's something for me to pay attention to learn from handle problem to solve. This is my best gift from God is this system. Instead it has become the weapon of mass destruction against myself.
Bruce:Okay, so I'm sitting here and you saying that you have no idea how hard it was for me to keep quiet, I'll let you finish your, your piece. Because in you saying what you were saying you prepare you sort of brought to life a thought in my head, yes. Which doesn't belong to me belongs to you. Because you evoked it by what you were saying. Or should I say the pressure created by what you were saying. And this is a continuation to what you just said. If I'm not mistaken, what you're saying is when our negative pole goes up, instead of it being a guidance system, it blocks us from reaching our full potential. Because at that moment, we perceive using our language, we're making a mistake. Now, this is where this comes into play. It goes right back to nature. And to me, how nature has been designed for the young, when they're born in nature's world, as opposed to people's world. When the young is born, the the parents train the young, over and over again, certain behaviors, for them to be able to survive when things start happening. When things are out of control, they have this what I guess we call the subconscious. That mechanism that we have in us, to allow us to acquire this information to condition our subconscious in time of need. It's kind of like that emergency, sort of shoot to save yourself. I believe that people have now taken that and conditioning us to survive and people's world, they have taken that I don't know what word you use that that. That ability that we have naturally, and twisted it to where we are told at the beginning that we need to be perfect to survive. And survival is our main instinct. And if we aren't perfect,
Lynn:it's a mistake. And it's death.
Bruce:It's a mistake, but then we have to beat ourselves over the head with a two by four. So we have in a sense being subconsciously conditioned with our muscle memory. That to survive, we need to be perfect. Otherwise, we need to beat ourselves up with a two by four. So whenever we make a mistake, without even realizing it, we automatically beat ourselves up. Otherwise, we won't survive. And because of that conditioning, we are not necessarily reaching our full potential. And it goes back to my definition of perfection, which is death. So in a sense, we're conditioned ourselves to slowly kill ourselves. So even with that said, if you put that to the side, and let's just go with trying to be perfect. Well, to be perfect, you have to be able to do a particular task. The problem is, we weren't given three pieces, we have them. But we weren't consciously taught them. And just the opposite, we were sort of almost set up not to acquire this knowledge. And these three pieces of what I call the mental tools. So if you think about it, any tasks that we have to do, before you actually can do a task, you have to be proficient at your mental tools. So for example, a stupid example could be like opening the top of a water bottle. You know, if you stop and think about it, I first have to problem solve timing, listening, herring discipline, work ethic. If I'm if I'm not proficient at any of these things, it's not the opening of the bottle, but the pressure created by the opening of the bottle. If our mental tools aren't equal or greater than that pressure, we're not going to get it done. And then, so that's one piece. The other piece is what I call the negative positive bull. Right when we don't get it done right away, because of our false conditioning. We perceive we're making a mistake,
Lynn:right? That feeling that internal guidance system kicks off and it's told us for many years, there's something wrong with me. And I do whatever I do, when something's wrong,
Bruce:passed on from generation to generation. So that's the second piece that we're missing. that we interpret that as making a mistake. And of course, that little voice in our head is like going crazy now and just like making us nuts. And the third piece is, to me, we have a picture, which is to open the bottle of water. But we also perceive that we know what to do, when to do and how to do. And this to me is possibly developed from school, because we're sort of almost made to believe that we know what to do and how to do. And if we don't do it. Guess what's going to happen? Consequences two by four, you know, I don't know about where you grew up. But all the teachers in my school in the Caribbean, Trinidad where I grew up, all had a stick. And when you messed up, you found out the hard way you messed up. Yeah, even though you maybe didn't intentionally to mess up. That's what happened. And so of course, now you're, you're conditioned, again, you must remember to believe that you know what to do and how to do. So because of these three things that are missing. How can we possibly be perfect? Because we weren't given these three things. And because of the lack of these three things and how they were tainted? Actually, the odds of us getting it perfect, are slim to none. So with all of that said, One, forget about perfection work on proficiency. Because if you're working on perfection, if you think about it, if you're perfect, well, there's no reason to survive anymore. Because there's nothing to survive for because you are perfect. So
Lynn:I did this has just brought up a question for me that I don't think we've ever talked about. Because when I see when people are fighting, fighting for striving for whatever they're doing for perfection, there's a person in their head, I've come to also I've sometimes call it the sports mom, bitch. But I've also been known to call it the sanction or, and it's this part, and sometimes it's their boss, it is literally their boss, saying this has to be perfect. And in corporate language, we call it flawless execution. But what I just thought of about this whole quest for perfection, and sometimes it comes from parents, parents who demand that their kids show up a certain way, the parents that spend $500,000, to put their kid in a school that they probably don't even want to be in so there'll be perfect in a certain way. All of all of what I'm leading up to is, is a is that a way for them to gain power over us. Because there's no way to be perfect. So I know you'll always fail, but I can make you always be miserable and the gap between who you are and what my demands for your perfection are. And is that not one of the the sort of people's world illnesses that we've created.
Bruce:So I love what you just came up with, because you have now evoked another piece. So here we go. If you go to the end of the spectrum of people's world, if you think about our philosophy, or the philosophy that is put on us, it's basically boils down to to be successful, which is usually defined by money, you need to take something that is less, and use it to enrich yourself, which is people's world way of thinking. Right? With that said, going back to what you were saying. And going back to what I was talking about the three missing pieces, and survival perfection to buy for mistake when you stop and think about it. Because of the conditioning done to us, as you rightfully said, we do not succeed in whatever it is we're doing to the levels in which we are expected and we put on ourselves. So therefore, when you finally get to the end, and it's not to the levels of expectation by those Empower, you feel terrible. So therefore, you don't get a natural. If I'm not mistaken, it will be an endorphin kick. Right. All that good feeling that you get? Yes. Which if you stop and think about it, to me, literally, the physical body has to have that. That's the thing that keeps the body going and moving forward and wanting to move forward and not sort of collapse. Does that make sense to you? Yes. So so it's kind of like we need to have that to literally survive.
Lynn:It's like an essential chemical of life. Absolutely. Without it,
Bruce:it's like the body just starts deteriorating. And then you go into I guess depression.
Lynn:And life is not worth living when you're not getting those endorphin kicks.
Bruce:And then obviously, what's going to happen is you're going to acquire perfection, ie death, what I call premature perfection, which is suicide. So therefore, the point being is this, because of the conditioning done to us, we basically aren't getting that natural fix,
Lynn:right? Because the power people in power are saying, We're gonna give you
Bruce:well, not only that money as a boss, etc, etc. The point being is they then produce things, but I call the hat. You know, that comes in all different shapes and sizes and colors, and blah, blah, blah, blah,
Lynn:Mercedes, yada, yada, special pants good. My case cowboy boots
Bruce:day you and one of those things are going to give you that fixed right falsely.
Lynn:Yeah, doesn't last very long. No. And
Bruce:they don't want you to ever ask very long, no. So tell me why they don't want to last very long.
Lynn:Because they want more money,
Bruce:and the story. So basically, you are the less so they're using you to enrich themselves, you understand, slowly, you're dying, because they can't empower you, because they empower you, then you will need the endorphin case because you start to get it naturally. So they keep you sort of in this, what's the word I'm looking for, in this environment that isn't beneficial to your well being, but just give you enough, or you have enough within you through nature, to keep succeeding every now and then to get it fixed, but not enough because of the environment that you live in. So you're slowly tainting other people around you with what I call tired mindset,
Lynn:which I actually don't believe most people actually even realize they're doing, because it's what they were taught. I don't think very many people get up in the morning and say, I'm gonna hold land down.
Bruce:Okay, but here's my question to you. Let's say they do realize, to a certain extent, but why would they not say anything about it? Because if they were to say something about it, they then had to admit that they are making a mistake. And they cannot do that, because of the trauma and the conditioning that was done to them. So they're not going to say anything. A good example of that is a meat to movement. Yes, I mean, look at what happened. So the meeting movement went from all of these people who were under reactors. And now they're swung to the other end to whether overreact is, but both situations are both tyrant where you're overreacting or under reacting, you're not doing the picture. So if you suck, if you think about it, if somebody actually did create this thing called tyrant mindset, they're geniuses, because you could either overreact or under react, but you're still not going to acquire the knowledge that you need to acquire. Right? You understand. And even when you read these books, and you get this knowledge, you know, the problem that happens there is if your mental tools aren't equal to the pressure of the situation, because we keep thinking, well, it's when that guy hit me that where the trauma happened? Well, it's actually not where the guy hit you. But the pressure created by that, which every day you are encountering pressure. So every day, you're sort of reliving your past, which you haven't healed. So therefore, you're not going to move forward in your life, because you're missing all these pieces. So you're going to be stuck in this place. And you know, you're going to be stuck. But you can't say anything, because then you have to admit that you make a mistake, and you don't know.
Lynn:Well, and I've actually had it be so that people I've had very competent people come I had a guy come up to me after a workshop. And he talked about his fear of failure. And he he was a successful army guy, he'd done very well. And he was debilitated by his fear of failure. And his way of showing it was he got very antagonistic and aggressive with people. So he couldn't be a team member. Because when they started disagreeing with him, he would beat him up. Not physically, but you know, as a bully, almost.
Bruce:So you actually said it. And I don't know if you realize what you said, which is the cause of him being so committed to tyrant right. By overreacting under reacting. What was his profession?
Lynn:He was in the military, were they really?
Bruce:And did he see
Lynn:battle? I believe he did. I believe
Bruce:he and what was it that he saw when he saw battle? Who knew Who death pressure? Yeah. Do you understand an overwhelming amount of pressure? So, which puts even more pressure on him not to make a mistake. So when he goes out into the workforce, the pressure created by what is asked of him is reminding him of the past, right, which feels the trauma that he's been through to absolutely literally death. Right? He's seen it, you understand. So he now has to work even harder. Because of this, this fear of that, he could cause that yes to somebody.
Lynn:And that is the, the, the power of the fear of death. What's interesting is, as you were talking, I was picturing like, this giant wall, we'll call the wall mistake Ville, like, it's like a wall, and I'm living on one side of the wall. Of, I'm going nowhere near a mistake. And I'm very uncomfortable. In the pressure that that is created. Anytime that wall kind of looms over me, I try to prove myself to be okay, I do anything I can not to be wrong. I, in this case, disguise case, I'm a bully with the people I work with. But whatever I'm not as he, as he told me in that experience, I'm going nowhere near that failure. On the other side, let's say we can get past it. And we go into thinking of it, I think of it as learning mode, where we're listening and hearing. And using our mental tools, there is a discomfort in that as well. And we've done enough work together in the round pen for me to have experience that where you you aren't able to rest on, I know how to do this, because you're under enough pressure at that moment that you might know how to do it, the example I often use is I can walk beautifully in a straight line on the ground, asked me to walk beautifully in a straight line on an I beam on a building being built 100 stories up or even in my case, maybe 10 feet up. I can't do that as well, because of the pressure created by the consequences of a fall.
Bruce:And I call that vinegar and honey. And it was we are so accustomed to feeling vinegar, that when we finally get honey, we're terrified that we're going to mess it up. So as great as the honey is, oh, it's such a reminder of vinegar. And it's like, Look, I am so accustomed to vinegar. Why go for honey, even though it makes me feel good? Because I know I'm gonna mess it up, and then it's gonna be even worse, right? Do you understand? Because I know I'm going to mess it up, when. And the reason is, you're going to mess it up. But the beauty of this work is because you are trying to tell it what to do, when to do how to do. And of course, you're going to mess it up. Because think about kids and raising kids. Not that I have any. But I have the horses when I walk in there, and I start telling the horse what to do when to do how to do well in doing that and telling the horse what to do when you have to do I have a picture. So what is that? I'm actually asking of the horse. When I'm doing that? Well, I'm wanting him to do a picture. or so for them to be able to do the picture that I'm asking of, they actually have to take the pressure that I'm putting on them, which is going to remind them a pass, ignore that, and give up control to me and do what I'm asking them to do when I'm asking them and how I'm asking them. So I am asking them to give up control to me. But yet, I don't give up control to them. Because I am deciding how much pressure to apply when I'm asking what to do when to do how to do. Now one example you setting there, and we all do that, but yet we expect the kids right? To do the opposite to what we're doing.
Lynn:Well, let me let me just take it right into the work I do with the corporate clients I have. I every single client I'm working in, has a dilemma, meaning that they need innovation. They need their people to solve problems better than they have in the past. They want them to be creative. They want them to be they don't want compliance, they want commitment. And they want people to bring their discretionary energy to the table. The list goes on there are measuring engagement in every which way it's been out for years. There's all kinds of ways we use 360 feedback, but but most of the time the tools get I put in a context where I'd love to have your commitment as long as it's compliance. Meaning I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, just like we do with our kids, I am, I want your very best thinking. But I'm not going to give up control to you
Bruce:know, it's I call, I call it double tonguing. Yes, you're saying one thing. But you're, you're doing something opposite to set that situation up to fail. And
Lynn:that's exactly what I want your commitment, I want your best thinking, as long as you do it my way. And because if it back to this, I think it's because of this thing about mistake is like, well, if you do it differently than I did, or would have, or thought of, it must mean there's something wrong with me. And I don't you dare do that to me. Now, I think this is unconscious, for the most part, I know it was with me. For years and years and years, I'd like my thing about getting any kind of self awareness was this. I was happy to be self aware from a book. But as long as as long as I didn't have to look at myself. But if I had to look at myself, and own how screwed up I was, let's just go back and read the book. And I can describe it to you. But don't make me own it, don't make me do anything about it.
Bruce:So in using what you just said, to break it all down in the corporate world. When one asked one to do a particular task, the one who's going off to do a task, what are they going to encounter? Use one word, think about the word excellent pressure. Whatever it is they're doing it's pressure, everything is pressure. So the bottom line is, if that person could not handle pressure, the odds are, they aren't going to be able to do the task, right? Because if you stop and say to yourself, if you've worked with people before, you're going to realize we'll sit down in the office. And wherever it is, we're sitting to discuss what we're going to do today, we'll sit there and discuss about what we're going to do today. And then they go off to do the task. And when you go and check on what they're doing, how many times have you noticed that what we discussed about quite clearly, they weren't doing? Have you encountered that more
Lynn:than more than times and I can count.
Bruce:And the reason is this pressure, see, we keep thinking that the horse is the problem, or what somebody did, to me is the problem or the dog, whatever. But it's actually the pressure created by that. If you go back to the work, the missing pieces that we talked about, one of them being the mental tools, whatever tasks you're giving that employee to do, they now have to go to bring it to life, the reality, to be able to accomplish that they have to be proficient at their mental tools, they they're not problem solving, timing, listening, hearing, discipline, work ethic, yada, yada, yada. And if you stop and think about it, but nobody ever taught us consciously about that, right? It was always get the picture done. So at that moment, for them to accomplish a task, which is pressure, if their mental tools are not equal or greater than the pressure created by the task, far less for the steps in getting to the task, because to get to that end result, there are a number of different steps frames that they have to go through. And each one of those frames has a different pressure level. And if your mental tools aren't equal or greater than the odds are, you are not going to be able to accomplish that step far less for the end. And then what happens when your mental tools aren't equal or greater than then your muscle memory kicks in? Right? Subconscious and of course, that has been conditioned to be tyrant overreact under it. So it's actually setting you up to fail. So even when you are talking about okay, yada yada yada, but yet I'm not doing very good. That's when the pressure is greater than and you're overreacting under reacting. setting everything up around you to fail without realizing it. Remember, you said just now I don't realize I don't understand why I do that. Yeah. And to me, that's why you do that. Because until even though you have the knowledge and even though your mental tools are equal, or greater than the other thing that we need to do that we're not doing is recalibrating our muscle memory. So when the time comes where our mental tools aren't equal or greater, which is where growth happens And you have to go back to that conditioning, the muscle memory, if that is still tired or not alpha, which simply means that it is able to do what the picture is calling for. So Tyrant is where one overreact under reacts, therefore not accomplishing the task. Alpha is when one is able to do the picture, right. So, in doing this, what you're realizing is, until you come to terms with that, and work through that, or work on that, and I'm going to change and that's where working with the horse in the round pen, the horse, but working in the round pen allows you to become consciously aware of the three pieces that are missing. In working with the horse, the more the horse doesn't do the picture. Uh huh. In the world that we have created people's world, that would be seen as a mistake. And then you start stressing and doing the system and learning how to do the system, when the horse isn't doing the picture. That is fantastic. And the reason why that's fantastic is this. First and foremost, you see that the horse has commitment. Without commitment, you have nothing. But obviously, it's mental tools are greater than or should I say the mental tools aren't less than the pressure created by what you're asking. And the pressure that you're asking is reminding the horse of the past. So at this moment, this is a great opportunity in doing this work, to allow the horse the ability to rewrite the past, acquire his mental tools, and lift them up. A great moment for empowering the horse to find its authentic self. And for that to happen, we have to be alpha. What's going to happen basically is as what starts doing that, you start going into tyrant mode. But then that's where my job comes in. I become the conduit that makes you consciously aware when you're doing tyrant, right. And the way that I do that is by pushing a negative pole up. But here is the piece that we are missing in humanity or in in the world right now. When somebody is correcting somebody else, they still are doing what they want to do, when they want to do and how they want to do. When we do it, we let you tell us what to do when to how to do. And the difference there is this. When you do it the way you want to do it when you want to do how you want to do it, you're making a bad situation worse. When you do it the way that the nature's view system shows you what you're doing is taking a bad situation and making it a learning and teaching opportunity.
Lynn:I actually remember this is calling the mind when the first time I was actually in the round pan. And I was calling up the Lariat. And it's not that simple. And my what I was not you gave me specific instructions on how to coil it. And it was it had tension in the rope and you said no tension in the rope and I kept trying to coil it. And the horse 20 I believe was in the round pen. And as my negative pole started screaming through the roof, because I couldn't get this to be done. And I was using my very well trained corporate I've got this face, which means nobody is supposed to see that. I know I'm making a mistake. I know I don't know what to do. I know I don't know how to get out of this. But I'm not going to admit that to myself or to you. I'm just going to sit here and show how calm cool and collected. I am under all this pressure. And so the the trainee started running this is the horse she started first just walking and there was she's 30 feet from me. And then the higher my pole went the higher her pole went because she can read the negative energy coming off of me even though of course you can too but I think I've got you I'm totally bullshitting you I'm trying to bolster the horse that's totally failing. And she starts running and eventually She's kicking and this is all as I'm just standing there calmly haha, trying to quote unquote, supposedly not exactly calm, but but I was putting on the calm face that I've got this face to do this and it was an example of how that idea of pressure changes things because what was happening inside of me that was invisible was I was learning even though I was pretty panicked and trying to prove myself worthy. I was in the froth I was enough in that discomfort that I didn't know what I was doing that we recalibrated my muscle memory to no longer go there when I couldn't coil the rope. And you know, many times since I've been in the round pan, coiling the rope, not succeeding, sometimes it works better than others. But never having had the horse do that, again, because we recalibrated my, my muscle memory to that level of pressure. Now, you just find another way to create another level of pressure, which seems to me to be almost an infinite thing, which is the beauty of this work. So that I've been able to increase the levels of pressure,
Bruce:and what happens to you when when the levels of pressure increased. Whereas in the past, you didn't particularly care for it. Now, I welcome it, because it allows you to build your mental tools, it allows you to find the link,
Lynn:I actually really like it when it shows up. And you know, the some of the backstory that people may or may not know is a little over two years ago, I was very much what I would call a green horseback rider, I was on the third time and 20 years, I've been on a horse. And it's over the course of a couple of weeks, we were on a trail ride, I got thrown. And I really did get thrown. Because when the horse wasn't doing what I asked it to do, which I realized I now I really know, I didn't know what I was doing. I sent some signals to him that we're both going stop at the same time. And I won't go into all the details. That story is being written as we speak. But I had a backstory that said when I was sitting there, coiling that rope, and watching Trini, run a note round pan and start kicking up from the energy that I was putting off, it was exactly what the horse did on the trail from the same kind of energy that I was putting off, I was not capable of handling that level of pressure.
Bruce:So here's what comes to mind when you bring that up. So if I understand you correctly, because you wanted to be perfect and not mess up. Because of the pressure created by the group. Yeah. And you didn't want to let me know. No way that you were missing. I
Lynn:know, I was like I let you know, I was messing up.
Bruce:There was this internal, something happening inside of you that was creating a whole bunch of negative pressure, which so much though, influence the horse, right? Because that's how they communicate. So here's my question to you. What is a message that when you are in that mode is being sent to your physical body? Are you not telling the physical body that there's a threat? Yes to the body? And is it possible at that moment, because of the stress created by this? The body then responds in a particular way to release certain things within the body? To help find that balance? Oh, yeah, to get rid of that stress. That's which is a false and have they not shown that whatever it is being released is why we are possibly suffering from heart disease, diabetes, cancer, bla bla bla bla bla bla,
Lynn:I absolutely believe so. And what I'm learning is adrenaline is what our body sends us it's the hormone for fight flight or freeze, which is the survival mode. And endorphins actually follow in adrenaline when you have successfully resolved the problem. Now, the problem I'm seeing in my clients is and I think this is absolutely true, there's lots of articles on this as well is the whole society is adrenalized and we're living in fight flight or freeze so much without the the natural endorphin kick of ever feeling like we've solved the problem. So here's a live example with with with one of one of my clients. I'm never going to name one of my clients if you happen to be one of my clients listening this I promise I'm never gonna give it away who you are. But in this particular case, she was rewarding herself for a job well done with things and I think a lot of us do this I certainly have with either a glass of wine or an extra piece of cupcake or food or something and then beating herself up over gaining weight. And the exercise that we just did was How about letting yourself have the victory? And let the the success in and of itself, like claim the success, and it had never dawned on her to actually like, go wow, I did that. Because I think one of the things we do is we call that big headedness. So we train people to not toot their own horn, to not own their power to just be like, always so humble that you don't even get to say, hey, wow, that was a job well done. I, it took me a few tries, but I figured that out, or I won that client business, or I finished that project plan or whatever the work is.
Bruce:So in other words, what you're saying is when they finally accomplish the goal, yes, yeah. When they finally accomplish the goal what they have a tendency of doing is rewarding themselves with something tangible. But here's my question to you. Do you remember being in that situation where you're struggling to accomplish something and you finally accomplish it? Do you remember that euphoria that you felt?
Lynn:i The one yes, and actually was the one that was probably the most tangible, I've had many, many of those here in the round pen with you. But the the probably the most amazing one was this being able to when I'm doing my writing lessons, I'm on a bareback pad. And I have a tendency every single time I ask something of the horse, to lock my back, sit forward and actually put myself in a more precarious position with the horse. on many levels, I've lost my balance, I'm sending dangerous signals to the horse. And I'm not in flow. I'm all of a sudden, like a two before. And on this particular day, as she's yelling at me from across the not yelling in a bad way, but your back is locked. She taught me how to do that.
Bruce:Why was she doing that?
Lynn:She was giving. Why was she doing what he was,
Bruce:it's not the yelling, but the pressure created by the yelling, she had to apply more pressure than the commitment of whatever it is. You're taking me to hear her recommendation. And to get back into the moment because you were in the past. That's exactly the position that you're in.
Lynn:That's exactly right. And it was the oh my god, I'm about to fall, I better brace myself because the feeling of vulnerability. And we were we were operating at at a trot
Bruce:because of pressure creep by what you're doing. We started to remind you the past your mental tools weren't equal or greater than, and you started to slide back into the past and the body started to slide back into the past. And so therefore, she had to shock you back in
Lynn:to bring me back into the moment because I actually went when my back locked, Lynn left the building, right. Like I actually wasn't there. So she brought me back. I regained my seat, my balance. I actually relaxed, she was yelling at me.
Bruce:So what you started doing was instead of working on the horse, you started working on yourself in working on the horse.
Lynn:That's exactly right. And then with the with the most relaxed sense of being I gave the cues the horse turned we were doing some serpentine set a trot. And the the feeling of endorphins lasted for the entire day.
Bruce:So basically at that, in that in those moments, what happened was you started to rewrite. I did and instead of making a bad situation worse you started rewriting lifted your mental tools up, you wrote, rewrote the past, instead of the past interfering. You started letting the past guide you. Yes, you started bringing mental tools up Alpha tyrant, you started to learn to be in control to give up control instead of trying to control and all of a sudden you got that? Gee, I feel really
Lynn:good. A genuine physical endorphin kick.
Bruce:Okay, so you felt really good? Yes. Why was it? You felt so good
Lynn:though there's so many layers to that.
Bruce:Just keep it simple. Well, what's the first thing that comes to your mind when I asked you when you finally feel that because I've accomplished it? I finally got it done. Even though I was having a hard time. I finally got it done. And all of a sudden I feel this. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Why is it that you felt so good at that moment?
Lynn:Well, for me, it was it reminded me of skiing and it's that feeling of it is a physical sensation. And it's like I was inhabiting my body fully. It was like all of me.
Bruce:Why are you feeling so good? What was it that happened that allowed you to feel so good? So here's my question to you. Are you feeling the word and you had running around? Is I got the picture done? No. Would that be an answer that a lot of people would see, the reason I feel so good is because I got the picture done, because I've achieved the goal. Okay, so I want you to listen to what, not what you said, but how you just said it. You just said to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, that when most people accomplish something, they go, good. I got the picture done. Yeah. In other words, I didn't make a mistake. When in actual fact, the reason why you feel so good is not because you got the picture done. But because I just got a natural endorphin kick, exactly.
Lynn:It felt good, when you
Bruce:and where most people will say, I got the picture done, right, I made like, you're not breaking the cycle, right? The tyrant cycle is still there, right. But when you were able to consciously see that I got a natural endorphin kick. In other words, it's no longer about getting the picture done. But in getting the picture done, I brought my mental tools up. I rewrote the past, I got to rewrite the past, I got to start to recalibrate my muscle memory. Because the more pressure that the situation was putting on you, that pressure was reminding you what they did to you originally, yes. Now what they did to originally when they apply pressure was they use tyrant pressure, right? For you to accomplish the task, you had to use alpha. Pressure to work on the situation, not tyrant, right. And for you to do alpha, you have to be proficient at these three things that I'm talking about. Right? You have to stay in the moment. So therefore, at that moment, when the horse or the situation started putting that talent pressure on you, you in return did Alpha pressure, right? And in so doing, the pressure created by that situation was equal or greater than the past. So until you recalibrate the muscle memory, from tyran to alpha, you're not going to change no matter how much knowledge you have. It's
Lynn:not knowledge. It's about the Do
Bruce:you understand? I do so at that moment, because you did alpha, you recalibrate your muscle memory to alpha. And a good example of that was just now when I was in a sense, trying to not really entrap you. But yes, and unlike you said, Well, I won't mention any clients names. Lynne is a client of mine. Yeah. And I don't really like the word client. Yeah. What you just heard there was when I asked him what was it that caused that euphoric feeling? Most people will say, because I got the picture done. But Lynne was struggling. She didn't want to say I got the picture done. You know, but she said it three or four times prior to that. endorphin kick.
Lynn:Yeah, I was endorphin kick,
Bruce:but but when I asked that she was like, she, normally when I asked people that, the first thing I would say is because I got the picture done.
Lynn:Well, and and let's, let's talk about this, because so what happens then, and this is how the cycle, this is why you have to keep at this because it could say, well, great, she's got it learn gets to just carry on. And now she's, she's got it. So guess what happened? The next time I went back, I go to catch the horse. And he's just looking at me like maybe not today. He's in a group of six horses, and getting him out of the crowd, which I've been able to do before this particular day, because I was chasing the goal. Again. Now my goal was the endorphin kick. So we our mind has a funny way of twisting and chasing. So that particular day, I'm sure I was on the mounting block or trying to get get off the mounting block and out of the horse for an extra 15 minutes, because I was so goal oriented. So what now my picture was I'm going for the endorphin kick that I've had to remember. Every single day. Stay in the moment, great the horse that I'm facing today and gonna be with today, not the horse I had yesterday, not even the horse I had 15 minutes ago, because what happened with him that day, this day of this magical thing, and it's happened many times since but never quite as memorable or as potent is that particular day. That moment he also became alpha. And the the when he trotted and I'm on a bareback pad where I can't exactly post because I've got no stirrups. I could sit that trot. Like we were flowing with water because he and I he was supple. I was supple We were in a, in a harmony together that is unspeakably beautiful. And those are fleeting moments, but they're worth chasing. But But the only way to have them is like the butterfly that has to land on your shoulder, you can't chase it, you have to, you have to be in the moment and let it happen. So you have to allow it. And I think that's a deeper meaning of what you're saying. Let it tell you what to do, when to do how to do it. In the moment,
Bruce:so if I understand you, the second day when you went back because you felt so good about the day before. If I understand you correctly, you were starting to basically use alpha to embrace your tyrant. And it was you kind of lost the power because you thought you on the power. Yes. So yeah, that's, that's ego. Right. But but that's the cool thing about it. But but but but the nice thing is, how long did that lasts for you?
Lynn:Which, which that?
Bruce:How long did it take you before you recognize that you were actually being tired, but using alpha to justify it
Lynn:pretty quickly during that particular session? And then it was just a matter of recovering. And that's
Bruce:a swing back and forth from one extreme to the other. Yes.
Lynn:And then what I've done is, so for the very next time I went, as I found myself embracing How do you call it embracing alpha using alpha to embrace Tyra as I was chasing the endorphin kick, as I'm driving to my lesson, I caught myself and said today, just listen, just let it go. Just just show up. And the horses were in a different location, there was a new horse that hadn't been there before. I was curious and so forth. And on this day, what she what we do, she calls it drive and draw is you go in, kind of swish the halter and pay attention to the one horse he's you know, way across the, the, and try to call the one horse out of the crowd. And because I was totally with the horses that day, I was totally listening, I greeted the one that came up to me and then shoot him away, brought the other one to me from you know, I don't know, 100 feet away. It's kind of like, yep, you come on to me. And he came happily over. And we had an amazing session again,
Bruce:who told you how to get that horse to you? He did? And to do that, what did you have to do?
Lynn:Listen, yeah. And
Bruce:then and I had to give up control to the horse? And I'll tell you, and in so doing, how do you know that the horse isn't training you? He's How do you know the horses and testing you to see if you're worthy? Like it? Remember you said another horse came up and then this one came up? So by you standing there, and by the horse standing there he was putting pressure on you? Are you truly Alpha? Or are you just trying to pull the wool over somebody's eyes? So I'm going to raise the pressure about you, right? And see how good you are? And notice how you like you to start. Who am I messing up? No, no, no, it's like no, keep working, right? Keep working on opportunity opportunity as opposed to a mistake. Yes. And it's like finally you prove yourself worthy to the horse. So therefore, possibly, then the horse came to you?
Lynn:Well, and so it's interesting, because there's this there's a there's a thing I've heard about horses that I think has a direct parallel in the corporate world. And it's this, I It's that when you're with a horse, they know if you know how to ride them better than you know, if you know how to ride them. They say the horses always knows. And I've seen this happen many times where I've watched a green rider ride a horse and then a an experienced person ride the same horse and it's like two different horses. And visibly you don't see a difference. But invisibly, there's something that person is doing that you just can't put your finger on and you're nodding your head, like with a lot of recognition in the corporate world. And I've had a lot of clients asked me to coach them on this. It's a concept called executive presence. The minute somebody walks in the room, even if you've never met them, some people have executive presence and some people don't. And some people have bluster that they're trying to create as executive presence. And some people, you know, but but but but the truth is, the horse knows whether you're putting on the bluff or not. And I think at some level as humans know, as well, and it's there, it's a package of invisible skills. It's sort of like the mental tools and the muscle memory and much more. It's like all in the invisible world that people have and this is what I've started recognizing about what is so valuable about working with horses is first of all, they don't lie. They don't read invisible. They don't read executive presence based on your resume. Most people, we forget to read people. And so they walk in the room and we go well, that so and so. And they've got this title. And that's so and so when they've got this title, as opposed to coming in and say, Well, who is this person today and listening to them and hearing them and noticing where they are in this moment? You know, I've been in meetings where people were so flustered, that we couldn't get anything done. And nobody would pause to say, hey, let's just clear the fluster, you know, stop the shuffling of papers and stop the light for, you know, I'm so sorry, I'm late, or whatever the thing is, that created the fluster. And let's just reset and start working together, no problem, no, no harm, no foul, let's just work. So anyway, I'm just thinking, that's a great reason why I think working with the horses is so powerful, because they are telling you the truth at all times.
Bruce:To me, what the horse is giving the person is the ability to, to get back in touch with your authentic self. You go to school, and you acquire all this knowledge. And you're like the top of your class. The problem with that is this. Now you got to put that to practice, right. And to be able to put that into practice, you have to handle pressure.
Lynn:And that's the first thing people talk to me when they come to is I'm under so much pressure, I have, you know, shareholders or investors or other stakeholders, or I've got the public, it's a lot of pressure out there that people are having to face
Bruce:schools. To me, at school, it's like there's a hawk around, just, you know, see all the chickens flying around. Yeah. At school, they do such a fantastic job, to prepare people with the knowledge needed to do a task, or to do a job. At the same time, in doing that, they're also perpetuating tyrant, don't screw up, blah, blah, blah, blah. So on one hand, you have the knowledge of the other hand, they're actually sort of how should I see? condition you even more to be tyrant. So when you go into the workforce, you are really knowledgeable about the field that you're going into. But it's like catching the horse. When you go off to do what it is you do. Every situation, Every job is different. So you have to be able to listen to the situation and take the tools that you have learned and use it for that particular situation, when to do how to do. And you're not taught that, which is what this work shares with you. And it gives you that as a piece that helps you to be more balanced, or, or more rounded. But I'm going to hit you with a twist. Since you talk about the corporate world. This is a piece that that that we don't talk about very much, but it's a key piece. In the corporate world, is it fair to say that if one is filling a position, a particular position, that you normally would have a number of people applying for that position? You hope? So let's say you
Lynn:want a lot of choices when we're hiring people
Bruce:correct. But if they all studied the same thing would it? Why? Why would it be so difficult to pick a particular person or person? So you're not just looking at their qualifications, right? The one thing that you realize that every person is unique. And correct me if I'm wrong, but you're hiring that person, not just because they're their qualifications, but because of that unique individual that they are. Is that a fair statement? It is. Are you wondering where I'm going with this?
Lynn:I am not well, I'm actually not just wondering, but I'm actually thinking of ways. I've seen people try to put people under pressure in the interview process. Just so they can find out a little bit about who they are, when everything's not so candid and pretty, because you know, we all know how to go to an interview day. Right there. You know, seven people have your resume. People walk from building to building, they've got their best suit on they've got you know, they've got their happy face on and they're or they're dressed to impress, and they're acting like I've got this. And it's really hard. Some people are better bullshitters than others, it's really hard to tell until you get them under pressure, how they're going to show up. And so I've seen people try to get people under pressure, I think that might be where you're going is how do you find out who you really have here, when you're trying to make a choice, or, frankly, when you're trying to be the choice, like a lot of people are trying to get a different job, or try to be the one that gets selected. And it's like, they're good work good. I'm good at this at reading what you want and showing you what you want. It might not be who I really am.
Bruce:To me. It's like I was telling you that that often on I work on writing a book about this work. But a been pretty stumped. And then, as I go along it, it becomes a little clearer. But then you sort of wonder how to start. And I basically feel that where it needs to start is, what is your ultimate goal? And the big question that one asks, or has asked themselves is, what is it that I would like to do in this world?
Lynn:And that's a big question for some people. Yeah.
Bruce:And normally, you know, doctor, lawyer, blah, blah, that's what you perceive, you know, whatever it is a particular Korea. And to me, that's where the big downfall comes. The answer to that question is, what is it I'm supposed to do in this world? Is this to be the authentic me that I am. And until you are the authentic you that you are meant to be? No matter what career path you follow? To me, you're not going to reach you're not gonna be able to do that to the fullest extent, if that makes any sense.
Lynn:It makes a ton of sense. That's the reason I call my business creative spirits unleashed.
Bruce:So to me, what this work does is first and foremost, allows you the ability to find the EU. And what are your career is, is basically the vessel that you're going to use to practice in finding the EU. So under you is not going to just be like okay, there I am. It's a process. You understand. So to me, that's what life is about. Life is about becoming the you. And the job is the vessel, whatever your passion is that I used to work on becoming the me. Which then goes back to the finding the middle exercise. Yeah. In the first part of that exercise, the first thing that 99.9% of the people do is walk straight to where they perceive the middle is. And basically, they look at the whole round pen, and they're trying to please the whole round pen to place that rock. The second part of the exercise, at this point, I have spoken to you in length, about the negative positive pool about the three pieces that were missing the negative positive pool, letting it tell me what to do and how to do and the mental tools. We talked about also the muscle memory, but in this exercise, we're not really working on the muscle memory, even the horse even though the horses in there, the emphasis is not to work on the muscle memory at this point. But to become how shall I say in tune with the three pieces experientially. So the second exercise you place your orange flag. Remember you already have four blue flags from the first exercise. So you take one of the four orange flags for the second exercise and place it next to one of the blue flags. In this case, we went with a one from the north. And what you want to do is cut the ramp and in half, so basically you have six and six because remember the area of the ramp and was 12. To do that, I have to place a flag on the opposite side. Have the first flag. So I will go to the south end. And what most people do is go to the south end, and then sort of look at the first flag, and then place it and put the flag down. But now what I show you is put you back to the fence, look at the first flag. And I want you to take three steps, either to the left or the right. And when you do that, you're going to realize that, in making those three steps, I have now caused one side of the round pen to be smaller and the other side to be larger. So it ends up being something like five and seven. At that point, your negative pole goes up. So what I'm doing here in this exercise is one, allowing you to problem solve. By making you move, I'm putting you in touch with your negative positive pool. So when your negative ball goes up, it's no longer a mistake. But an opportunity, like you so rightfully said, it's our greatest gift that we've been given. Right? So when you're now focusing on your pools, and not seeing it as a mistake, but an opportunity, what happens is that you are now becoming a conduit. You're learning to be in control to give up control. Do you understand
Lynn:that? And that concept of being a conduit has so many layers. And so
Bruce:in the corporate world, if you can't be a conduit, how can you possibly sell something to a client when you don't know what the hell the client wants? Because you're trying to tell them what they want, and you can't listen to them? Exactly, you know, because I know everything. So anyway, let's just stick with this. We don't wander too far off. So your negative poll is up. Fantastic. So I, one of the reasons for doing this exercise going back and forth. It's sort of otherwise known as the Goldilocks is one. It's not a mistake, but an opportunity. So the more you move back and forth, the more you train yourself, not a mistake, but an opportunity to when you listen to your negative positive pool, the little voice in your head that everybody has, will still go off. But the problem is, because you have nothing to do with the negative possible and you can't control it. Because you're a conduit now, that little voice cannot influence you anymore. So there's no eight possibilities. Because that little voice is a little bit left. No, no, you understand. So then what I have to do is swing back. And now go and find five and seven on the other side. So when you went in one direction, you had five on one side and seven on the other. So then I have you swing back, go past that Mark, where you believe was where the second flag goes, and take three steps the other way. But instead of taking three steps, what I say to you, is this don't count? Do you feel what it feels like for the ramp and to have five and seven, I want you to swing to the other side and find five and seven on the other side. So feel it. And then now that they're getting accustomed to feeling instead of thinking or counting, then I said to them, okay, now look for six and six. And play with it go back and forth, like you're just to go buy an Oculus. Yep. So what's happening there is the working on problem solving, timing listening hearing, to the letting it meaning the two pieces, tell them what to do when to how to do they are keeping the picture six and six. So they don't have to actually do anything. And then all of a sudden, they will find that spot. And they will place that second flag, which is an orange flag. And then they do the same exercise for the third flag and the fourth flag. And by the time they get to the fourth flag and place it using this system, where they're not working on finding the middle, but they're just working on the steps to be in the moment and find the moment and letting the middle come to them by making the steps so in other words, what are the steps to getting there so they get step by step. So by the time they get to the fourth flag and they placed the four flag where the polls are balanced, where you have three and three. I have them stop and look around. Do you remember what you noticed about the flags when you got to that point?
Lynn:We've done this a number of times the first time I didn't want to do this at all because I was like let me just put the damn flag down and let's find the middle and get get on to the horse you know because I was very goal oriented. But the flags are almost never exactly in the same place as your Mind counting them would be
Bruce:So are you saying that the blue flags from the first exercise? And when you do the second exercise, the orange flags don't line up? The only ones that line up are the first ones. That's right. The other three don't line up.
Lynn:That's right. There's almost always a delta.
Bruce:And here is the question. Which are the correct flags? The blue ones are the orange ones. So which one did you feel were the correct spots?
Lynn:If I had to operate on one after that, after understanding what I was doing? It was the orange ones.
Bruce:So the bottom line is what you realized was the orange flags, where the orange flags were word to you. V. North, south, east and west for me, correct. It is also with everybody else that I've worked with. So if you stop and look at an exercise, and this is what I found out the other day, this is what came to me. The first exercise. Remember, we talked about the two worlds nature's world, the world we're created for? And people's world? Right? The world we have created? Yes. Remember, I talked about how we've been conditioned to survive in people's world, which to me is a false world. When people do the exercise, the first thing they do, is they go straight to the middle. In other words, that is the conditioning done by people's world. And that middle that you are finding is the you creating who you are. Do you understand? So the middle is you perpetuating a building? You when you do the other exercise, what you realize was the blue flags that you were working off of? Were not correct. So therefore, the middle that you accomplished, was actually not the middle. And the person building those and creating that was being tainted? Yes. So if you stop and think about the first exercise is a reflection of how we have been tainted by people's world. And we're not reading the you, but a you. And as you said, just now and what you're realizing, and correct me if I'm wrong. But what is it I'm supposed to work with my life is to become the me not a particular job, right? We're putting the cart before the horse, it's kind of like taking pictures, everything is reversed. It's like looking in the mirror trying to do something, you have to do the opposite. So basically, what I show in that exercise is how the world we have created is actually not beneficial to our well being. Because when you do it the other way, the exercise the other way, not finding the middle, but finding the points to find the middle, the flags don't match up. And that's the proof that our conditioning is not beneficial to our well being. And what we're actually doing is losing touch with our humanity. So when you do the exercise, the second way is not about finding the middle, it's about the steps in finding the middle, you are building the you, which is who you're meant to be,
Lynn:which is, to me a really practical way of talking about that internal guidance system it is it is going inside to that system and those tools that were God given and recalibrating them to be me because they always were me and quit having the programming say that feeling means there's something wrong with you. That feeling actually means there's everything right with you.
Bruce:So now I'm gonna throw you in the deep end because we haven't really talked about this, this this this whole conversation here just has evolved. Yes. But since you have lived in the corporate world, and that has been the world that you grew up in Yes. This madness that I talk about experiencing it and listening to it and knowing what the corporate world is looking for. And listen to us and experiencing this. Do you not think or believe or feel that if the corporate world It takes us now. And instead of producing a product, if they now change their way of doing things, and instead of producing a product, instead of doing that, change it around to where we're not going to produce a product. But in producing this product, our energy is going to be in empowering the people that we're working with, in producing this product, and by so doing are you then going to produce not only a better product, but because through the horse, and because through the system, you're becoming more in touch with your humanity, ie nature, which is to be the steward of this planet? Is it fair to say that we are then going to be able to produce not just a product of good quality product, but a product that is going to be more beneficial to the environment. And in so doing, not only that, but when your customers see this product that you're producing, and how you're producing it, by empowering your people, instead of using them, to enrich yourself, you're now lifting them up through this product, which is whether we like it or not, we're going to need products still, because we have been conditioned to have products,
Lynn:I still don't want to Washington absolutely don't want to go down to the creek.
Bruce:But when people see that this company is doing it this way. But yet, there's another company that's talking green, but it's actually still, I'm taking something that was less than using to enrich myself, I use green as a marketing strategy to make you like me. But you understand, yeah. Whereas these people are being green, because it's not about the product, but in producing this product we are in lifting, so we taking something that is less and lifting it up. And the byproduct is us lifting ourselves up? Who do you think the consumer is going to support? Would they not then support the product that is, is a company that is supporting their people, and producing a product that is more environmentally friendly? And will be beneficial to the consumer?
Lynn:So it's like, that's such a big question. Because what was going through my mind as you're sort of setting the stage is, many companies are trying to do this. The thing I have found in myself, and I think, you know, one of my questions for you is this is so the work is so compelling to me. The ability to take pressure and have it quit being an enemy, and all of a sudden become a healing force, which is what I think you do you with the help of the horses, the question that I have had is, as people play at it, it's not hard for alpha to start embracing tyrant, meaning that they end up it's a sort of like a prison. They, they they head out and they think they're doing it and then they hit one edge of the wall. And they try to correct it. And they go ahead another edge of the wall. And they try to correct that. And they just kind of stay in the same cycle. The the example I have heard is I had a teacher teach me this about information versus transformation. And this is how they described it. So you you picture a form. So the all of us have, it's our own shape. Just imagine drawing circles, you know, a random circle on a on a on a sheet. And that's kind of my edges of my capabilities, my skills, my ability to handle pressure. And all the knowledge that I get comes in that form. So for companies that are trying to do this, everything comes into that form, and then they try to be green. But until by transform, meaning they cross those boundaries, which means they have to change their assumptions. They have to change their beliefs, they have to change their capabilities under pressure. Which means they have to do this deep personal work, it doesn't happen in the head. And it actually doesn't even happen only in the body. It happens down at the cellular emotional energetic level. That's what's happening in the round pen with me that I feel like the theory and and the goal, if you will, if you want to call it a goal, the picture is the right picture. The question I'm trying to ask and I'd have for you is how do you get more people to be willing to put themselves through this to get there?
Bruce:Okay. The thought that comes to my mind is remember earlier, haha good luck with that one you were talking about and I can't remember what the situation was. Like I knew to do this, but something was blocking me from doing it. You remember that?
Lynn:I've had that happen so many times that I don't know if
Bruce:it's gonna, like I knew to do this. But when it came down to it, I was actually setting myself up to fail. You know, you were telling the person to do this, but I was acting in such a way that I was actually, I call it double tonguing. Yes, yes. So what I'm hearing you saying is, corporations are actually trying to do this. But they're having a hard time doing this. Because when they start on the process of doing it, it's almost like they get blocked from accomplishing what you set out to accomplish.
Lynn:There comes there comes a time, because it's like being some people call it the tip of the spear. I call it walking a tightrope. And here's how it plays out on on the tightrope, is exactly what you're talking about in terms of alpha, but takes a lot of training to walk a tightrope, and it gets really hard when the tightrope gets high, and we fall on one side or the other. So on one side, we become very empathetic. And everybody's leading change, everybody's trying to make some kind of transformation happen, or handle the pressure. And as the people around them start going into whatever mode they go into, in that pressure, people on the empathetic side of that, tightrope will often be so soft on the people that they'll take on and soak up the work themselves. And instead of holding on to deadlines, instead of saying, Hey, this is what we're doing, they let the people off the hook, while at the same time making life hard on themselves. Because every time you let them off the hook, you now put yourself in a position of having to still get it done. On the other side,
Bruce:which which I let you go to the other side, which then reminds me of this little thing here.
Lynn:So you just picked up my daughter's book called Dear parents,
Bruce:if you are holding their wings, they cannot fly.
Unknown:Exactly. And because I don't want to do to you what was done to me to me, but then
Lynn:on the other side, and this can happen in the same
Bruce:way that falls on the tyrant, it can happen. And both of these are.
Lynn:Absolutely. But on the other side, and this was the kind of world I grew up, they overreact to suck it up, buttercup, right. So I actually remember a moment where I was talking to somebody about the change, we were leading. And I said, you know, a lot of people are resisting. And we got to think about how we sort of let that resistance, I always say, let the resistance create traction. And I said something along those words. And he looked at me with cold eyes. And he goes, let me tell you how we handle resistance. We break it, we tell people so in his case, forget empathy. He's so hard on the people. Now what he didn't realize is he's letting himself off the hook. Because what happened there in that project, and every other one I've ever seen where this happens is you have created an underground, I would say you'd say, well, you want us to get on the train. While we're on the train. And we have Uzis and we're plotting your death.
Bruce:It goes back to if somebody or somebody's had done and train people or conditioned people to do tyrant survival, perfection, to buy for mistake. Yeah, that was actually consciously done. They have done a fantastic job, because you just proved in what you're saying how they've done a financial job. Under react, overreact, no matter where you go, you're not going to get out of that. You don't get out of the fact that that's that cycle. Right? Absolutely. Right. You understand. And so therefore, even when you do accomplish a task, it's like, I feel really happy. Because I got the picture done. And I was I did not make a mistake. So that word mistake. It's so long, it stops any humanity from growing, in fact, just the opposite. It's sucking it out. Now the problem that is happening because of this. Suppose that conditioning, that if somebody did do or somebody's did do, where we have gotten to now is this. Not Are you only polluting the people endorphin. In other words, they don't buy stuff anymore. All the stuff that they're buying, is they have self medicating,
Lynn:right. We're replacing endorphins with Xanax and at We're kind of numb. I call it numbing and dumbing
Bruce:so so basically, you're you're literally killing your cash cow faster. Isn't that ironic? Okay one to forget about that. What's even worse than that is this which actually will affect them assuming that them are humans or people, it's going to affect them. And they've been trying to look for a solution for this for many, many years. Looking for another planet? Yeah, that has water. Yeah, sunlight and oxygen. Exactly. And they have not found it. And why? Because if you stop and think about it, what's happening those three things in our world right now we're, we're destroying those three things. So not only are we taking people and polluting them, but we're also polluting our environment. So when this girl the other day, you know, sailed across the ocean become to the UN, to talk about global warming, saying that there is a problem. Like no, there is not a problem. There is not a global warming problem. Now there is a problem with global warming. But global warming does not a problem. They environment does not have a problem, there is a problem with the environment. And why did she come to the UN to talk about this saying that this has a problem? Well, what she didn't realize was he was getting there, but she hadn't got there. The problem is not the environment. The problem is the people.
Lynn:Just like horses don't have problems.
Bruce:Because when I started this, I wanted to help us to survive in the world we created. And I suddenly realized very soon into that journey that I was the problem, then the system evolved. And then the unfortunate thing was, I suddenly realized, because all I wanted to do was work with horses I've done with people I wanted to run away. And I couldn't because I had a dog and horse to look after. And I suddenly the system evolved, and I thought, Oh, great, I'm done. Now I just can work with horses. But I realized to help horses, I have to show how horses are going to help us to get back in touch with our humanity until you become consciously aware of the three pieces. And doing stuff practicing and building those three pieces practices, you understand one. But the other part is also to include the horse in the equation and the why you have to include the horse in the equation is to be able to practice this and allow this the group, you have to have a safe as a self safe system, which is your muscle memory, you got to also grow the muscle memory along with these three pieces. In other words, you need to recalibrate the muscle memory from time to alpha. And this is where the horse comes in, through the experiential interaction with the horse, which is not a horse, but your corporate company, yada yada, yada, right? You're learning the habits that when the pressure happens, it's not a mistake, but an opportunity to for you to practice yadda yadda yadda, for you to become alpha, you understand? Yep. So what's happening here is you're not building or creating anything, but in creating whatever you're doing, you're building yourself to become more alpha to become the person you're meant to be with that wall, allowing you to be the steward that you're meant to be. And the byproduct is we're producing these products that are going to be more environmentally friendly. But we're also changing our way, because there's no stress. Because I don't want the picture to happen. Because of the picture happens. There's no pressure. And if there's no pressure, I don't get to grow to be the me, right.
Lynn:And that's how the that's how we get to be that mate.
Bruce:And why the horse? Because first of all, the horse has been with us for a whole journey of evolution. Yeah. I don't care if your horse person or not. To why the horse because they're big enough to get you to take that mask off. Yes, you know, the mask I'm talking about?
Lynn:I do have you saw me try it.
Bruce:Three. Why the horse because for every one horse, you literally have two horses, the left and the right, because of the eyes. So you have to work both sides of the horse to help the horse survive and the work we've created. As you know it, you have to work physically both sides of the horse for why the horse he doesn't care if you're white, black of money, don't have money, male female, what your religion is, what your sexual preferences are. Whatever the story is, that otherwise has stopped you from moving forward. The horse does not care. So as Americans say the buck stops here. And why the horse because they're very forgiving, as long as you made an honest mistake, the horse is a prey animal, you're a predator. So when something happens, and you can see that you're messing up, and then that horse starts hanging out with you, what you suddenly realize, well, if I'm that terrible, why is the horse with me? Why is the horse following the predator, and then what you're going to realize is what I'm imagining. And the reality of the horse being with the predator isn't true, which then allows you the opportunity to be kind to yourself, and allowing you to start changing those habits. So they no longer are controlling you one link at a time. So you right now are the slave and the slave master. To them. It is your choice now, which you didn't have before. To change that,
Lynn:yeah. Wow. That's a very, it feels like a very complete statement to everything we've been talking about.
Bruce:But what's even more complete for me personally, is this. Careful what you ask for, because when I started going down this road, which I did not choose, it was often my mother's passing, that this started. And it is my belief that is my mother that put me onto this path, which was to help horses survive in the world we have created by so doing and showing this, because this information that I'm sharing with you, I can assure you that I got from no book. This was all through working with the horses over the last 20 something years. I've been working with horses all my life, but specifically on this journey. And, to me, the gratifying thing here is now in so sharing this with you, you're realizing how it works. If I can get one person to realize how it works, to the extent that she set up all this equipment, to share with each other conversation to share this conversation, if I can get one person to get it. Who I would say is pretty educated. Does it not prove that what we're saying is correct about the horse and the work. So therefore, to me, I realize that I'm reaching the goal that I set out to do, which I didn't intend to do was to truly show how horses can help us. So in other words, if you stop and think about it, as important as horses were before the Industrial Revolution, I show how horses are actually more important now than even back then. Right? Because of those missing pieces, if we keep going down the road, we're going forget about the people that are killing themselves that we are killing bla bla bla bla. sunlight, water, and air,
Lynn:sunlight, water and air. It's about saving the planet. In other
Bruce:words, if you stop and think about it, people to me, why are people here? We're the stewards of the planet. In other words, visualize this one. Can you visualize the what the physical planet looked like 100 years ago. So if you were to look at the planet from outer space and take a picture of it, and I don't just mean a picture, well, okay, from outer space, take a picture of the planet that was years ago,
Lynn:that was actually on the news this morning. It showed Florida from the International Space Center, and it showed the lights at night and you could really see like the Tampa area, the Miami area, the Orlando area, you could see where all the lights were and where they weren't. And I actually had this thought, I looked at it and I said before electricity, that's dark, you don't see any of that. And that was not that long ago in the scheme of human life. But if
Bruce:you think about and I would say even more than 100 years ago, let's say you look at the planet 200 years ago, 200 is a good number. And you look at the nature of the planet. Look at the tree growth, yada yada the ocean quality, yada yada. So if you look at the quality, the physical quality of the planet 200 years ago. Now compare that to where the planet is today. Big difference right? Huge not good. If you start pause and think about it. Do you remember? I think it's the Greek? Or was it the Romans Atlas, holding up the planet? If you stop and think about it, is Atlas holding up the planet? Or is the planet holding Atlas up by giving a person life? And his Atlas us? As a group of people? And how are we doing as a people, otherwise known as Atlas, when it comes to the planet? And how's that for a visual? I mean, I'd love for an artist to draw Atlas, you know, how they sort of, like draw horses with people, you know, but they're people that make up the look like a horse, right? It's like, I'd love for them to take people and make an atlas of the people. And then you have a planet sort of looking rich. And then you have another picture of Atlas made up of people looking all kind of like, bent and twist, and then reflecting.
Lynn:Well, I'm, it's interesting, because you're speaking, and I'm not sure I've ever really thought about it this way. Because I think a lot in terms of rich exchange, and how we need each other, but I'm not sure the planet needs us.
Bruce:Absolutely. And yet, we
Lynn:don't live and survive without the planet. And so that is enough right there for us to wake up to our stewardship.
Bruce:The bottom line is the ones that risk is not the planet, the ones at risk is us. Do you understand? And for us to survive, we need to be that stupid, you know? Because, remember, it is not Atlas holding up the planet. But is it the planet holding up Atlas? If you think about the planet is a horse planet holding? The planet is a horse? In other words, you're not there to help the horse, but you're there to help the horse to help itself because God said don't
Lynn:need us. Either. They can live on their own. And they they do quite well. In their herds. Yes, they live and die. There's a cycle of life.
Bruce:But if they've sometimes but they're not okay, because of us, you know? So absolutely. So the point being is, it's not nature that has a problem, it's we have a problem that's creating a problem with nature. But it's going to survive, and we aren't, and we're showing that already. Look what's happening in our societies around us. Yeah, and we won't get into other subjects.
Lynn:We actually, I just paid attention to the time and realize that we've been going for a while and so. So it's kind of feels like we're at a good stopping place. After I asked this question, which is, if you think about who might be listening, and it could be anything from horse people, I've got a lot of people in that world, corporate world, athletic world, what would you want them to know? Or to maybe even try? Let's say they can't come to work with you. I am going to finish by asking how people could come to work with you. But let's say they can. But they're interested. They're intrigued. They want to understand their internal guidance system, or the negative positive pole, the mental tools, how to let it tell you what to do, when to do how to do, what would you give them as an encouragement of a first step to try on their own? And I don't think you can, I don't think you can change yourself on your own. I don't think transformation is possible in a vacuum. But let's just say you want to get them started, what would you say?
Bruce:Well, I don't think it's exactly what you're asking for. But if you allow me a little leniency, I'm going to do this little exercise with you, which I'm sure I've done with you before, okay. But it's almost like a great little exercise for them to do with somebody who hasn't listened to the podcasts, just for them to see what the response is. And do it with a password with more than one person. So you get the part about the two worlds people's world, nature's world. And then people's world. If you don't know your numbers, your alphabet, you're not going to live very comfortably. Right? So in nature's world question to you now is this. Literally, what are the three things? Now if you have the correct answer, don't answer. Just tell me I know what the answer is. Okay? Or maybe I won't say just answer. Literally, what are the three main things that your body has to have? Now there are a number of them, but what are the three main things that literally your body has to have to survive without it? It's dead?
Lynn:And you want me to answer Yeah, okay, I'm gonna answer the survival method. I gotta have air first because in three minutes or less, I'm dead without air. Water, I think they say is three days. And then food is 30 days. Good,
Bruce:good. So those are the three things that the majority of you But we'll see. So with that said, Here's my question. I would like for you to tell me the first thing that comes to your mind when I asked you. And I do that twice. So I want you to tell me the first thing that comes to your mind when I asked you. Now I'm going to ask you something. Now the reason for asking you something, is to get some action going to be able to answer the question, right?
Lynn:And I'm going to actually ask the listeners to play along with us. So as he's asking me, and I'm gonna give an answer, but I'm buying you some time. Play along.
Bruce:That is, that is a great way of doing it. Yeah, let's play along, you will play along also. So in other words, you heard the three things that she said, which was air, water, and food. So write down your three things. Or see them yourself. Yeah. So, again, tell me the first thing that comes to mind when I asked you, and I'm going to ask you something, okay? And whatever it is that I'm asking you is what we're going to use to stimulate movement. Okay, to be able to answer what I asked of you. Okay. So under the heading of food, I would like for you to give me a name of a food. Preferably a vegetable.
Lynn:Okay, so, hamburger came first. So I'm gonna say let us because lettuce is on the hamburger. And I can't eat tomatoes now. And I think there are fruit officially anyway. So I'm gonna say lettuce is the vegetable, but hamburger actually came to my mind first, because I'm hungry. It's getting close to lunchtime. And that's all I could think about what you said food.
Bruce:So, did you answer what I asked of you?
Lynn:You said food, the first thing that came to mind. So
Bruce:repeating it for me or you're reading it for you?
Lynn:While I'm repeating it to say Wait, what did he ask for? Because there were actually two things. You said the first thing that comes to your mind and then preferably a vegetable.
Bruce:So if I'm not mistaken, you said hamburger, but then you went with lettuce?
Lynn:Because you said preferably a veggie hamburger. But first thing,
Bruce:so but hamburger was the first thing but the thing that you went with was lettuce, was it not?
Lynn:And then I said, well, better if it's vegetable, I'll say later, but is it not fair that you
Bruce:went with less effort, but you cover your ass by seeing but I the hamburger came to my mind first? Yeah, because I'm hungry. Bla bla bla bla bla. But after seeing all of that you ended up with lettuce? Yeah.
Lynn:Yep.
Bruce:So what was it that I asked of you?
Lynn:Give me the name of a food, preferably a vegetable? Oh, give me the first thing.
Bruce:Ah, that was that was fantastic. Yeah, this works. So notice what Lynn just did. I asked her, What was it I asked of you. And she started going down this road about, give me a name of a food, preferably a vegetable, yada, yada, yada, yada. When all of a sudden she said you remember? No. He said earlier on, that he's going to tell me something. And that's what is going to be used to stimulate movement to answer, which was tell me the first thing that comes to your mind. And when I said that, at the beginning, twice, tell me the first thing that comes to your mind? Did you feel yourself go? Okay, good. I'm going to tell them the first thing that came to my mind. Yes. But when it came down to it, notice how you didn't because that's our conditioning. So what I'm trying to show you is this. Even though logically, we knew to say the first thing when it came down to it, not because of what I did, but the pressure created by give me a name of a food prep vegetable. That pressure was greater than your mental tools. How do I know? Because you did tyrant, you overreacted under reacted. You gave me lettuce. Even though there was something in your head saying no see hamburger, because that's the first thing. But when it came down to it, then you had a choice. You chose lettuce, but covered yourself by saying hamburger. But when it came down to it, you suddenly realize I didn't tell him. And that is an example of how even though you have knowledge when the pressure is greater than your muscle memory takes over, right? And sets you up to fail, right? So what I'm saying is to people, you read all the books you did until you recalibrate the muscle memory to alpha. You're not going to reach and accomplish the things that you're setting out to accomplish, whether it be helping the environment blah, blah, blah, blah, until you do the work on you.
Lynn:And what's interesting is this is a direct parallel. It's a conversation I'm in a all the time, is that sort of standing up in the face of dissent, sometimes it's in a meeting, sometimes it's with a boss, it can be with a spouse, it could even be with your kids. But it is calibrating and correcting yourself to please the others, versus doing what was asked, or standing up for what you said, as soon as you start questioning what you are doing very intentionally, I should say that this it's not a game, and it's not a trap, it is a way to create pressure to cause me to second guess myself. So that then I can find the through line of my own
Bruce:thoughts, when it's actually not to cause you to second guessing it is. Because that's not really you. That's your conditioning. That's the beauty of this. She thought that that was her, but she's now realizing that's actually not me. That's my conditioning. Yes. So the cool thing about that is you start realizing, alright, you asked me to sort of share with people a way to help them to start to do the work, I want you to look at the tasks that you are doing when you're doing a task. And then notice how you stop beating yourself up when you don't accomplish a task. After listening to this podcast, what you're learning is about turning alpha, at that moment, when you don't accomplish the task, you are going to perceive that that's a reflection of who you are. After this conversation that you're hearing, you're going to realize or hopefully realize that actually, that's not me. That's the conditioning done to me. So therefore, what I'm doing is perpetuating Ami. And by not changing it and taking back my life, for example, how can I see or practice a change in myself? How many of you all have friends out there? That I would imagine by now you understand what the negative positive pool is? So in other words, notice, if somebody gets into your space, and starts crowding, you, you feel that thing going up? That's your negative pool. Okay? So how many out there have a friend that has said or done something to cause your negative? Everybody,
Lynn:everybody, okay? So they got pushy or Yeah,
Bruce:so what I want you to do now is put a number to it. So think about that, that negative pole going up, it starts off at zero, which is peace of mind. And then one, two, and it goes all the way up to 10. So my question to you is this? How high does a number go? Before you should? Actually? Or before you actually say something to somebody, if at all? And with that said, here's the question, How high should it go? Before you should say something to that person? And if the tables were turned, so here's the catch. If the tables were turned, and you did something to that person who was a good friend of yours, or friend? Not intentionally? How high? Do you want their number to go? Before they say something back to you? And do you want them to say something back to you? So with that one, I will leave that with them. Yes. Did was that clear enough?
Lynn:It was and I'm going to say? Notice the difference between your two numbers? In other words, does your poll have to get to a five or a seven or a 10? Before you say something to your good friend about having, you know, not invited you to the party or having brought something to your house that you wish they hadn't? Or whatever they've done it? How high does it have to get and how high do you want it to get with them before they say something to you? I'm not going to set it up to say, in fact, I'm going to hope that people in the comments to this will actually give us some of these answers. But but it probably is going to be two different numbers.
Bruce:So but here's the other piece before I forget it, because I've gotten to that stage in life. In a sense, we've kind of given you two exercises. One was the three things that you have to have,
Lynn:right and how you calibrate your brain.
Bruce:So it's for what were your answers, okay, that you came up with and share that with Lynn? Yes. to It was the negative positive pool thing when your negative pole goes up? When you've experienced it again, share with Lynn your experience in a condo what your comment would be as to what you what how how I, their number, your friends number should go up before you want them to tell you something. And then with that said, so you have two things that you need to share back to Lynn. But here's the kicker in doing it, and you don't share back with Lynn what mindset are you using? And who are you allowing to control you still? In other words, what is stopping you from sharing that with Lynn? Especially when you find out that what your answers are? Word, correct, right? By sharing with Lynn, is how you can now start making the change. Personally, by giving up control, you are then going to give up control and be in control. Because understand, the person that is able to share this with Lin is now taking back their life from them. The person that is not able to share with Lynn is consciously allowing their past to control them. Which there's nothing wrong with that, because not everybody is ready for that. But don't blame anybody but yourself. So it's your choice. But now you know how to find peace of mind and to be in the moment. And actually, you talked about learning having people that are horse people, what I have found in doing this work, the ones that have the hardest time are the horse people,
Lynn:because they think they know
Bruce:because they have preconceived notion. Because this work is not natural. Is this work? The name that came up for it, or the system is called nature's view. But the work overall, is known as natural human ship. And the point being is, is that in working on the horse, you're actually working on yourself, as opposed to what's known out there as natural horsemanship which is working on the horse in a natural way. But I believe before you can actually reach natural horsemanship to the levels in which you deserve to be you first have to work on natural human ships.
Lynn:So Bruce, tell people how to find you. Let's say somebody says, Well, okay, I'm willing to go into the transformation, because I will say it is a transformation. And I can actually put this in the show notes. I don't know that you're out there on the Twitter world or the Gmail world, like right
Bruce:away. I just say, Julianne, because that's what Julian comes in.
Lynn:So we will actually make sure in the show notes that you
Bruce:because I'm like rushing now because he's I stay away from all of that he
Lynn:doesn't do email. So
Bruce:So I actually found one of the cards. Okay, good. And I don't know if it's an update. No, he said, I don't even know if this card is it?
Lynn:We're gonna make sure and the show notes that people can find you. Also, you can find him through me, because we're going to have a place for comments. And also, there are going to be people who say, Yeah, I'm happy to share with landmines.
Bruce:I think this is nature's view.us.
Lynn:Yes, that's what I have found before. So there's a website. It's nature's view in it you RAS view, Ws dot U S, and you can reach him there.
Bruce:And we also did a documentary called the edge and so if
Lynn:you're Google the edge course, I believe you'll get this if you do just the edge, you're gonna get the Anthony Hopkins movie or something else like that. Is it okay if I share your email here? So okay, I believe that email, this is the email that I email you too. Yes. Oh, it is okay. The email is nature's view us. So that's all one word@yahoo.com So those are ways to reach him. And if you want to share with me and not share in the comments from the exercises, LAN Atlin cars.com Is my email you can come straight to me on my email and I will answer you I would love to have so many listeners to this podcast answering it that I can't handle all the emails that come in. So help me have that problem and we'll deal with that later as it goes down the road.
Bruce:You know, what you need to do learn now is you now need to take a picture of where we're sitting. But not only that, but you do notice Maddie Yeah, Mary's a dog While this was going on, Mary was so excited. She's a two year old blue healer, Australian blue healer. She was so excited when Lynn got here and she's like, jumps up and look at me. And she has just, this is the bed out here on the porch with all her old toys on it, which were given to me by my friends on hola Debbie Bisson teeny. And she would come around and she brings me all her little stuffed toys, because she wants to play want to be part of the whole talk, go lie down. So I should have pressed
Lynn:when he when he did the squeaky toy that says to Maddie, come play with us.
Bruce:What happened was that finally, she went to lay down and went to sleep on her bed. And I'm saying to take a picture of her. But then stupidly, I press a little squeaky toy. And she's like, Hey, thanks
Lynn:for that. But we will take a picture, we'll have a picture on the show notes of where we were sitting because you've heard a lot of noises. We had the the acorns hitting the tin roof. We had the roosters going crazy. We had the hot oh yeah, we had some trucks going by and we've had the chickens. But Bruce, I can't thank you enough for taking this much time out of your day. We've had these conversations before. And I've always said we should record them. And I wanted to catch an authentic conversation where we talked through just like we did today this so I'm thrilled that we were able to do it. So thank you for being but more importantly,
Bruce:I am thankful to Yulin for allowing me this opportunity to share with your your people, your friends, your your followers. The power of the horse, thank you, you know, to me, this is my journey that I share with others. And it's not about me, it's about the horse. So prior to this, doing this work, I was existing. Now I'm living. You know, it's a difficult who Yeah.
Lynn:Well, living is living.
Bruce:But it's a bit weird this thing? How many of us out there are existing? You know, and how many of us are ready to find their authentics? Of? Yeah, and here's your opportunity. And who needs this? Anybody that's breathing?
Lynn:And especially anybody who wants to go past existing and and deliver? Yeah, absolutely. So with that, I'm going to say for anybody who wants to go past existing and into living, find a way to get yourself to work with Bruce, he works here either in Canada and South Carolina, or sometimes in the trial North Carolina area, or I'm sure he might make arrangements to help you in other locations. And I have not even really shared my journey here with the horse myself. But I will say, I've been on this journey for about 20 years, but the horses entered the picture two years ago. And what they have done to enhance my knowledge and transformation to being more of myself is nothing short of mind bending. So thank you for letting me share that.
Bruce:And whenever people say thank you, I always say the way you sent me is to pass it which is otherwise translated as alpha on because to me, if you have alpha in your life, what can you not do?
Lynn:So what we what we would say for everybody is go be the you that was born on this earth to do what only you can do. Absolutely. And with that, we'll close. Thank you for listening to the creative spirits unleashed podcast. I started this podcast because I was having these great conversations and I wanted to share them with others. I'm always learning in these conversations, and I wanted to share that kind of learning with you. Now what I need to hear from you is what you want more of and what you want less of. I really want these podcasts to be a value for the listeners. Also, if you happen to know someone who you think might love them, please share the podcast and of course subscribe and rate it on the different apps that you're using, because that's how others will find it. Now, I hope you go and do something very fun today.
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