#69 Julie Ripley: Self-Connection, Boundaries, and Getting Unstuck

Intro: 0:02

Welcome to Creative spirits unleashed, where we talk about the dilemmas of balancing work and life. And now, here's your host, Lynn Carnes.

Lynn: 0:19

Well, welcome to the creative spirits unleashed Podcast. I'm Lynn Carnes, your host. My guest for this episode is Julie Ripley, who specializes in helping people regain their connection with their self. She was also the chief financial officer of a company in her mid 30s, when she realized that she was burned out. Given my own experience of near burnout in my mid 30s. You can imagine we had a lot to talk about. If I had to characterize this conversation, I would say it's about distinctions. For example, we talked about the distinction between power and force. We also talked about the distinction between sleep and rest. Another one we talked about was between embodiment of wisdom versus just knowing information, really deep and rich topics we talked about in this conversation. So this conversation, it's really for anyone who's looking for more meaning in their lives or looking to get past stuck. Sometimes we get stuck. One of Julie's specialties is helping people get unstuck. Here's what she has to say about herself. Julie is a personal development coach specializing in self connection, boundaries and communication. She is a speaker and has authored her own coaching programs, pulling together her experience of burning out in a CFO position. All the lessons she's learned from riding horses and her lifelong study of personal growth and spiritual development. She specializes in helping high achieving successful people who are feeling stuck make their next move. I do hope you will enjoy this conversation with Julie Ripley. Julie, welcome to the podcast.

Julie R: 2:00

Man. I'm so excited to be here with you. I

Lynn: 2:03

am too we. I want to start when I when I got on your website, which I have done a couple of times, but I did it right before we started. I realized that you may be the most kindred spirit I've ever had on the podcast. Oh, tell me more. Because use your podcast your I'm sorry. Your website said something about that you burned out as a CFO at 35. Yes, I think my moment came at 41. I was a banker. I'm an accountant. I was a CPA. I call myself a recovering digit head. But I began I'd like to say I had like a wake up call. But I think I had a lot of nudges that turned into slugs where and I mean punches in the gut, you know, to finally wake me up, I probably started waking up or getting those punches and the mid 30s I definitely was burned out and had given my life over to the corporate machine and had some wake up calls that have landed me where I am now which is a such a different life, which I sense is the truth for you. So can you tell me whatever you're willing to share about your burnout story?

Julie R: 3:23

Ah, well, the reason why pauses I think it's kind of funny. The story that I'm hearing in my head is I had this friend that would speak about people and she would call them two by four people.

Lynn: 3:42

I can't wait to hear what that means. Because I have my own two by four story which I will tell you later. Okay, tell tell me now what your what your friend means by two by four people.

Julie R: 3:52

So her version was you need to hit him upside the head with a two by four before you could get anything through to them. I love it. And in maybe in all aspects in some ways, but especially in my career, I was a two by four person because I followed the formula. And and when I burned out I was very resentful because the formula was you go to school, you get good grades you get into college, you choose a career that will provide you this life and things are going to be wonderful and happy. You know, I did all the right things. I didn't ever marry the wrong person. I never gotten credit card debt. I paid my student loans off early. So I really thought I was knocking it out of the park because I was following all this advice that of how to have this amazing successful life and I should have known in college because in college I realized about my junior year that I hated accounting. And I went around to all the other colleges on campus and I just talked to them about possibility and, and what what I could do with a career if I changed and in the Health and Human Development, I shared this passion. I wanted to have this ranch where people could come and this is in like the mid 90s I wanted this ranch where people could come and just learn about animals and life and life cycles. And I couldn't have articulated it then but like developing connection and relationship through, like, through work and effort, but also caring for and learning from animals in nature. And I gave up I was like, it's gonna be too hard to switch. I'm too far and it'll be you know, the, the living in your head piece really kicks in and you know, like, and then there are some people in my life saying, There's no way that that's possible. Nobody does that. You know, ranching is hard. Where do you think you're gonna get ranch? All of all of those thoughts and right, all of that noise. I all of

Lynn: 6:18

a noise, but just I have to stop to reflect for a minute. You weren't even out of college yet. You thought you were too far in? Yeah. Yeah. Isn't it funny the stories we tell ourselves?

Julie R: 6:30

Yes. And write like that. That was like a huge signal. Mm hmm. Yeah. And when I was talking to I can't, I can't remember. I think it was, it was an advisor for that College of Health and Human Development. But like, I've never heard anyone speak about this with a passion you do. Ding, ding, ding, right like that. That's a glimmer.

Lynn: 6:57

It's a glimmer.

Julie R: 6:58

Mm hmm. And I dismissed that signal. Like, I missed that. Like, there was no glimmer in accounting. And there was this glimmer over here. But again, like I was looking at it, you know, logically, we teach people to be logical. And we're not, I don't believe we're logical creatures at all. I think we like to think we're logical. But anyway, so I graduated, I worked at the state for several years doing financial compliance, auditing, you know, watching paint dry, basically. And then I went into public accounting for five years where I audited car dealerships, mainly not for profits and did some tax prep. And so it was a natural progression to go into a CFO position at an equipment dealership. And, and it was one of those, I went from a place where I basically got six weeks paid vacation, because instead of getting paid for our overtime, like being built into the salary, we can bank the, the hours we were during tax season, and I started the year every January 1, no matter the weather, I was out counting cars by VIN number. So how fun

Lynn: 8:23

Yeah, Okay, gotta gotta check the floor plan, make sure everything is there. That's

Julie R: 8:28

right. And so, um, and then we, the office was closed at noon, for six months of the year. So I had a ton of time off. I had a lot of room to play. I was running barrels, I was working out I was involved in like, Toastmasters and United Way and, and then when I went to work at this equipment dealership, it was like, I was working 12 hours a day. And I it felt like I was drinking from a firehose and, and part of it was they had never had a CFO, and I had never been a CFO. So there was a lot of figuring things out on the fly. There was a lot of just push, push, push, do more, do more, do more. We're doing this, we're doing that. And then I was like, with in nine months of being there, I handled my first acquisition.

Lynn: 9:29

Oh my gosh, yeah,

Julie R: 9:31

I'm of another location. So it was, well, it was a multimillion dollar transaction and I I reconciled it within $1,200. So that the level of detail I wanted to work at didn't it fit, but it didn't fit in the fast paced environment. And so there was that like, I'll just say that this organization was very driven for growth. It was very driven for. It was very competitive. And and I had this mindset that if I couldn't do it, there must be something wrong with me. I sort of laugh, like in Montana, if, if you, if you can't do it on your own, there's something wrong with you like you should be because we live in this state of rugged independence. So, you know, and it's true, there are some times where you're out in the middle of nowhere, and it's you and you have to figure it out. Right. So there was that belief system of not feeling like I could ask for help. But also, maybe that help, may or may not have been available to me. But there was also something that if I couldn't figure it out, I must not be the person for the job. And I could have never articulated it, then. It just felt like stress, and it felt like overwhelm. And it felt like the more I did, the more I believed I couldn't do. And right, like, like, yeah, the acquisition was just one of the many projects. Yeah, and I don't want to get into too many details of that. But

Lynn: 11:28

what can I can I pause you, because what you just said, is so profound, because most people can't put words to what you just described,

Julie R: 11:40

which is yours to be able to put words to it,

Lynn: 11:43

that feeling that that if I, if I have to ask for help, or I can't solve this problem, there's something wrong with me. And, again, I don't know that many people put that into language, I think it's mostly a physical feeling in the body. That is sort of everybody's got their own way of feeling about it. But it is a not good enough feeling that drives incredible action. And I don't mean incredible and a good less ghosts, take care of the world. Why, but like incredible in terms of interference, defensiveness,

Julie R: 12:22

dominance competition, I've got to be more than you to feel good.

Lynn: 12:26

I didn't hold back the proving mindset. I've got to prove to you that I belong here. But the funny thing is, the proving mindset only comes when I don't feel like I belong here.

Julie R: 12:37

When I don't feel good enough about exactly. Yeah. It is interesting that in the work I do I talk about, well, there's two, two places we could go with this. You know, when we don't feel good enough, like when our needs aren't being met, we do one of two things. We shut down and stop participating, or we overcompensate and perform. Right. And one of the reasons why I burnt out is I related to my needs, like they didn't exist. So what happened is, if I needed to work an hour longer, I did. If I needed work an hour earlier, I did. I never looked at what I needed to set myself up to thrive. I was good sleep, getting the right help. And and there was this mindset of you need to learn how to delegate

Lynn: 13:41

you're not going to provide me the resources. Yeah, this is a conversation I'm in all the time with even very well off companies with very high people is it's it's the it's sort of the risk, trade off resource conversation. Which you actually if you know, you know, if you actually are the one providing the resources yet kind of realize, Oh, if I don't do this, we're going to crash and burn. But if you've got people like I was, which is good little girl, sure that I wasn't able to do it well enough. I'll do whatever it takes. I don't know how to raise my hand and say, Hey, this isn't gonna work with just me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And our and we set up corporate cultures to do that to people and then wonder why they burn out or leave in droves. Or the project fails. Well,

Julie R: 14:40

right it it. It's classic. narcissism, right.

Lynn: 14:46

Yeah, I never knew I

Julie R: 14:48

need and then I'm going to make you wrong for needing it. Yeah.

Lynn: 14:54

Yeah, say that again.

Julie R: 15:00

But it's one of the concepts I work with. Yeah. It's the withholding the make wrong dynamic. Mm hmm. So one of the examples I use a lot is an and I want you to respond to me 99% of the time when you go to a restaurant, and you tell them what you need or want, what happens.

Lynn: 15:25

They generally bring bad yeah,

Julie R: 15:29

99% of the time. If you can't, won't, or don't tell somebody tell the wait person what you need or want what happens.

Lynn: 15:40

They bring me what they think I want coffee. I was just in a restaurant where they showed up first thing with coffee, we don't drink coffee. And there's so heat up, but they're so proud of themselves. Because 99% of the time that people sitting there are like, if you don't get that coffee in my cup, now, you're gonna get to see grumpy me. And I look at him and go, I'm sorry. We're like the only crazy people in the world that don't drink coffee. Can you bring me some hot tea? Yeah, but they they're doing in that case? They're generally doing their best. Yeah. Anticipate? Yeah. But they the otherwise they'd pour coffee. And I'd be like, that's not what I need. Yeah.

Julie R: 16:16

But but so you don't get what you need or want? No, because you don't ask. And then who do you make wrong?

Lynn: 16:23

them? Yeah, ask.

Julie R: 16:26

Right. So so there's there's this dynamic of withholding what I need or want. And when I don't get it, I make you wrong for not giving

Lynn: 16:35

it to me? Yes, I see that all the time. But even

Julie R: 16:41

like with the wait person, they made some assumptions. Yeah. And you can really, that's just as good. Or that's just as challenging to deal with. Because they didn't ask. Right? It it negates the conversation that needs to exist, right? Because the real conversation is Hi, welcome. What can I get for you? Correct? It's not here, everybody wants coffee. So you're getting coffee too? Well,

Lynn: 17:16

it's interesting. I developed a program called the roadmap for coordinating action, which is based on it has lots of work behind different people. Fernando Flores, was one of the early founders of language X. And it is the whole idea of how to create and get what you're looking for, which is you have to learn how to make requests. And you're also one of the things I've all this is a big one on the other side of that is most of the people I worked with in my corporate life when I was inside, and now teaching people on the outside as well as they make a statement and think they've made a request. And then they'd heard nobody promised to do anything, but they assume they will. So they'll go we need somebody to go inventory the car, lot by VIN number. And then nobody says who's going to do it by when? You know, what is good look like? They don't do any of that. They just say we need somebody to go do that, or our jewelry, we need to go do that. And then they just assume you've said yes. And they don't wait for you to promise to say yes, I can deliver that. Within all the other 50 things you've asked me to do.

Julie R: 18:23

Right, it's more of a demand and an expectation than a request and collaboration.

Lynn: 18:27

Exactly. And so that's why I called it the roadmap for coordinating action. And I took sort of that work. And there's another book, Chalmers brothers wrote that has a lot of this in there. It's, I can't remember the name of his book, I felt like it should be called the robot for coordinating action. So I just changed the name of the work. But um, I have one of these days, I'll think of the name of that book. But but it was so pivotal for me to learn exactly what you're talking about, right? Which is, we can make requests and we can make offers. But don't assume somebody's going to do something until you've elicited that promise. I always say project management is actually promised management.

Julie R: 19:06

Yeah, there's like something that I work with too is when you and I are talking about not being able to raise our hand and ask for resources. We're learning to endure the discomfort of creating work arounds going without working with what we have. So we we basically are training ourselves to develop this level of quote endurance. Hmm. So right, it's full of cars have full of coping strategies and full of all these twists and turns that we have to do to navigate this toxic environment.

Lynn: 19:46

That's the interference I often talk about, because it's not playing because you haven't asked it's one thing if you say, can I be sure that we're this is what we're going to have to do then can we talk about the trade off Yeah, because if you're asking me to do 10 things when I only have truly the capacity to do three, which things are you willing to let fall through the cracks? And then it's clean, because we all know what we're talking about, as opposed to just just don't give me anything to say I have had bosses like, don't bring that to me just get it done. And all kinds of weird. That's where all the weird, pardon my French, but all the weird shit and corporate stuff starts to happen is people are playing these little games. They're stabbing each other in the back to get what they need. So they can look good. So they cannot get fired. Because they're setting everybody up for failure when they have that attitude. Always. Yeah. Yeah.

Julie R: 20:42

Right. When, excuse me, I don't know what's going on. When we have a culture of accountability, we are creating a culture of blame. When we create a culture of collaboration, we create a culture of connection and togetherness and brotherhood or sisterhood. So you have to recognize who you're really competing with, if you're creating a competitive environment within your organization. To me, that's a failure as a leader,

Lynn: 21:20

completely, and yet, it is so common.

Julie R: 21:23

Yeah, be because like, all of the analogies we use around business, to me, is really messed up. It's war, we've got to dominate. We've got to crush them, you're crushing it, you're crushing them, and you're crushing it. And we call that success. Yeah,

Lynn: 21:48

we had a value of one of my organizations that was initially killed a competition. And to soften it, they made it crush the competition. Yeah. Oh, and what are you supposed to do with that? Because, you know, one of the when I'm working with teams, one of the things that has like such a light bulb moment for people is, look, guys, we want conflict around ideas around what it takes to solve the problem, not around your relationship with each other. Right? Right. The conflict shouldn't be personal, the conflict is around, which is the best path for us to go forward. And then you

Julie R: 22:26

concede your role? It's process? It's yeah.

Lynn: 22:29

Yeah. And, and if we focus on that, as the the organizing principle, like when I was just snow skiing. This is a new idea for me over the last two or three, maybe four years of letting the situation tell me what to do, when to do how to do rather than letting me think I have to know. So be the conduit is the idea, right? And the what I started to recognize, and when I first put the snow skis on, because I didn't learn as a child, I learned as an adult, I was 30. And already tall as I am when I learned how to ski. So my body still says, This is scary, but I kind of got warmed up. And then all of a sudden, I started realizing I could apply that idea be the conduit to the mountain and let it tell me what to do. So I didn't have to know how to turn. All I had to do. That's exactly it. All I had to do was let the mountain tell me where to turn. You know, there's a sign over here. There's a person over there. That's telling me where to turn. And then the turn just happens when you let it happen as opposed to be going what how do I do this? What do I do What which foot blah, blah, blah, got out of my head and into my body by being the conduit. And that is the like a VA way to solve problems of any sort. Whether it's working with a horse or working with, you know, how to solve the inventory problem with the cars on the

Julie R: 23:48

lot. Yeah. Well, you're speaking to force versus power. Yes, we misconstrue, that force is powerful. And it's not its weakness, asserting itself to be to feel powerful, right. But power is the ability to read the terrain like not only the signs and where other people are, but where the dips and the moguls and the snowpack is where's the snow soft and where's hard and where can I make an abrupt turn versus I have to take a slow gradual turn you're reading the terrain is it's coming at you and you have the freedom in your body to adapt and change as needed. That's a powerful one.

Lynn: 24:34

So I actually in the program that I have the dancing the tight rope program i There's a five part flywheel and get this the first part of the flywheel is read the inner waters which is learning how to reduce the noise and hear the true signal. But the second part is read the outer waters, which is like I was doing read the snow. Where's the snow soft, right? Where is it ice? Where's there a sign? You know where I'm going because they Get this this mountain I was on had these like signs right in the middle. And you just, you know, if you focused on the sign you skated the sign. Yeah. So I'd have to focus on the whitespace on either side of the sign. Yeah. When

Julie R: 25:12

I was running barrels, one of the women that I learned from, she would always say, we don't process the word don't. That's right. And so if you say, don't look at the barrel, where do you think I look? Yeah. And, and so there is that ability of how do you train someone to write read their internal waters? Read their, the external waters? You know, and I bet we have some similarities, too, because there's also when you're riding a horse, what's emerging between you? Mm hmm. You know, like, like, is, is it escalating into something that's bigger than it is? Are they really, like, I just had kind of a difficult conversation with a person last week and, and I was really able to navigate this. Okay, what, what is it? I'm really after and trying to create, you know, how are they taking this and receiving this information? And what are they doing with it. And what was really cool is, I could hear them listening to me and really taking in what I was saying. And so when I heard them listening to me, it actually quieted me down. And so what are bosses do? Don't bring that to me. I don't have to listen to that. And it's true. I've been in that situation, I've been that person. But instead of saying, don't bring it to me, it's better to say what I need is, and that is vulnerable. And that is where our power is

Lynn: 26:51

so beautiful for seeing. Yeah, well, because if we want to create any kind of harmony, you can't do it with force.

Julie R: 27:01

Right. And, and the, the phrase that I learned when riding horses, and I think it applies to teams and people in relationships is slow, is smooth and smooth is fast. You start going in and pushing cattle around, like, I've moved cattle where they're strung out for miles, and they're just gonna get a walk. And they get to where we're going. If you start in the back and whooping and hollering and jumping up and down. Cheering and getting loud and getting big. You destroy all the workability Yep. You know, you might let out like a hoop or a holler to move, get something started. But then, yeah, I can't let it work. Get out of the way.

Lynn: 27:47

Well, that's the thing you're letting it do its natural work we have, we have chickens that we occasionally have to put up, we've got about 20 chickens. And they have to go through one little like chicken sized hole. And when we first got them, and we tried to put them up, it was flapping wings and clacking, and because we'd be like doing the whole force thing, thinking that we could get them in there. And what we have learned is quiet is the only way and you just start directing energy. And very quietly. And sometimes I get, we've got like a big, like a big fish net. But I only use I don't catch chickens with it. I only use it as a way to make my energy a little bigger. But we can walk them in quiet as you can if you can remember to steal yourself and be very patient and let the chickens do with the chickens they're going to do which is just walk.

Julie R: 28:38

Yeah, I think now like circling back to success, I went after I burned out. I used to say success is not an accomplishment. It's a felt sense in the body. Right because I quote looked successful, but I didn't feel successful and and I think the leaders of the future are going to need because we're starting to become neurodivergent and people are going to be need different communication and the difference style of leadership than we've been this demand. I'm, I'm the boss, I'm the dictator. I'm the king. I'm the queen. I'm the you do what I say, which is healthy relationships work for both people. Yeah. And a lot of times, the way we relate is just right. Like our the way we relate to one thing is the way we relate

Lynn: 29:38

to anything. How we do anything is how we do everything.

Julie R: 29:42

And so when we start looking at like cultures and relationships and what they what they do inside of us, like learning to read those internal monitors is huge. And to me, I think those are going to be the people who become more successful.

Lynn: 30:02

Describe for me what felt sense of success feels like.

Julie R: 30:10

I think it's different for everyone. But mine is like this quiet still power. Like, I have gotten to the point that I used to think all the motion, all the action happened outside, I had to force things to get things done. And now I look at it more of what's the least I can do. And it's not about being lazy, but the, you know, can I take one step towards a cow and get it on a direction that it needs to go and then let it go. I don't have to micromanage the cow, I don't have to make up a story about cows or I don't have to make up a story about, you know, I have to do everything and make everything happen. It's this calm, quiet stillness. So everything arises out of the stillness. And I've learned how to notice what's arising, be present to what I can do and execute on that. Instead of just reacting to what people are saying or doing. So it's more of a experience a sovereignty in the way I interact with people.

Lynn: 31:28

So I would say that sounds like an internal locus of control. Where you aren't folk, you aren't gulping towards a large goal. Right, where you're just accepting step by step, the little wins and you're accepting the little wins is what I'm hearing. You're right,

Julie R: 31:49

in navigating like, oh, that, that doesn't really work like it there isn't flow there. And so instead of going deeper into it, sometimes I step back and I look like I was sharing with you before we started recording about just in October, I fell for one of the social media scams It was right before the summit. And I entered my, my login information. So I lost my entire Facebook account. And immediately my thought was, oh, no, now I have to go create it again. And I would stop. This is how the universe creates space in your life. And so I'm really letting my social media grow organically. And I'm really thinking through the process of how do I want to relate to social media? What do I want it to do for me? And how do I want to use it? Instead of just dragging my past into my present moment? What if I just like started noticing the relationships that still had aliveness. And I they became my friends on Facebook, instead of trying to go collect all these people that may have been significant in my life at one time, but really, like the friendship has drifted away. And and I be with that. And so I have really had this space to look at, what am I doing with social media? It's been really quiet, social media wise for a long time.

Lynn: 33:22

Well, since October, which feels lovely, doesn't it? Like you light up talking about it?

Julie R: 33:29

In ways that it's I haven't been able to articulate how it's changing me. Because there is a freedom in stepping into a new space without dragging my past into it. And I finally feel like there's a powerful opportunity to create something that's meaningful to me like, I think that's another part of the felt sense of being successful is that not only am I sovereign and how I show up, but I'm seeing the ability to influence and create my life, not from my past, not from a reaction to something not from overcompensating or, but it's really in ways pulling me into a calling of how do I want to participate in social media?

Lynn: 34:33

That is the epitome of the past and forming, as opposed to interfering with you. Hmm.

Julie R: 34:40

Yeah, that is, and it's fun to be able to distinguish the oh, that's an old way of thinking about it. I have to go find all these friends like what are they thinking about the relationships, like, just had a friend reach out and I was like, oh, yeah, yeah. You know, we had a great conversation yesterday and then I friended her on Facebook. Yeah, that feels good to me. It's to me, I would rather have a small, connected group of people around me, then a lot of people around me. And so right, like, that's kind of the opposite of what they say about social media.

Lynn: 35:24

And that that is exactly how my life has felt as well. You know, it's and I will excite out a bit too occasionally having noise when I see somebody with their 1000s of followers is like, what am I not doing that makes that happen? And then I'm like, wait a minute, I love the small, you know, mighty connection I have with people with my email list and with on social media and so forth. It's very engaged people. And how can I walk for more than that? Yeah. And maybe I think we're maybe not meant to necessarily, at least most of us have large groups of people around us. You know, if you think about the way hunter gatherers were from 1000s of years ago, you didn't operate in cities like New York City and Dallas, Texas, you were in bands of people that were like up to 150 or so? Well,

Julie R: 36:13

and I think that's why people gravitate towards small towns in ways

Lynn: 36:16

now nowadays, especially, but then they struggle

Julie R: 36:20

to adapt to a small town. They think they do, but there's, yeah, it.

Lynn: 36:26

I live in a very small town came from Dallas, Texas, and then Charlotte, North Carolina, to a town of 1000. And the biggest thing I had to adapt to was the loss of my anonymity. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody knows who you are, if you live in a small town.

Julie R: 36:48

And right, like the things we can get away with when we're anonymous?

Lynn: 36:54

Well, this is what's happening, I think, to some degree in social media, because I do think it creates a certain kind of anonymity. Yeah, you know, weird because you're behind a keyboard, and you're maybe lacking the feeling of what you're saying, or doing that you would never do if you were in that room with someone. I am fortunate my my Facebook feed is so for the most part, very uplifting. And what I've noticed is for if I pause on something that has the, you know, car on the side of the road wreck feeling like the onlooker, you know, feeling that causes me to slow down, I'll get more of that. And I don't want that stuff. So I've tried to be very disciplined not to even slow down on the scroll. When they when Facebook shows me something, because they're very sensitive to that stuff. They they start bringing you more of that, whatever that is, I stopped on a pillow at the other day. And do you know how many pillow offerings dozen new pillows started showing up? It's like, Oh, dang, just because I saw a pretty picture. Yeah, yeah. But I think that's a very literal way to see what we actually do to ourselves, which is you get more of what you touch. And that we are, to some degree, mostly influenced by the five people we spend the most time with. So be mindful about where you're spending that time because it is influencing you whether you like it or not. Yeah,

Julie R: 38:30

one of the things I think we missed the mark on to, I've said it in a lot of presentations is we're not problem solvers. Right. And that, oh, I'm a problem solver. I like get your rocks and votes. Yeah. And, and because we're not, we're caretakers, and when we don't take care of what needs our care, then we have problems. So problem solvers are actually late.

Lynn: 39:03

Correct. They wait

Julie R: 39:05

for you to break, break your leg on the train, instead of teaching you how to ski.

Lynn: 39:12

Because they want to be a hero. If you look at it, our entire medical system is set up as being a problem solver rather than a caretaker. Because if we were caretaking, we would not have 80% of the disease. And that's a that's an absolute fact that has been studied.

Julie R: 39:29

Well, and they say, you know, like the money is in the problem, but I am and I see that like I understand that formula. But but in reality, I think it comes back to knowing what we need vulnerability to ask for it, of being able to request what we need really creates the collaboration and the connection like these five people. And so I really have people look at their needs because I think Maslow was a huge contribution. I mean, but think about this. He created that theory in 1943. That's

Lynn: 40:21

right. I've read the paper. In fact, I quoted him in my book.

Julie R: 40:25

And so, but I think he missed something. Well, I shouldn't say, No, I don't maybe he didn't miss something. He got it, right. But I think we live in a different time in space in 2023 2024 80 years later, I think we still have needs. But our needs need to be met in the moment and ongoingly. And our needs aren't the basic minimum to survive, like we've been educated to be. They are the basic requirements to thrive. And so if you want a thriving company, if you want a thriving organization, you need to be able to identify the needs, and encourage your employees to identify needs of not only the company, but themselves in order to do their job,

Lynn: 41:22

and of their own of whoever they're serving. Because I don't care whether you're manufacturing something or providing a service. On the other side, your cash flow comes from your clients, whatever they are clients, customers, patients, whatever you call them. Yeah. And if you don't understand their needs, right.

Julie R: 41:41

But we usually focus on only the client. And so really, if you're not taking care of your resources, like if you have some ground, ranching and, and really, there's only enough grass to support two horses, and you put 20 on there, you're destroying your resources. And then you say, Oh, we can just go buy hay. But then you're at the cost of the market.

Lynn: 42:11

And yeah, you've given your pet. That's a that's a tangible illustration of giving your power away. And

Julie R: 42:17

so there, there is a balance, like, maybe you could buy some hay, and then manage, right? I really think, where a lot of businesses get in trouble, I worked with a client who the new CEO grew the revenue from 3 million to 10 million, and it sounded like a success story. The problem is, is they didn't even they hadn't even purchased the quick equipment for what he was selling. So they couldn't even do

Lynn: 42:52

what he had already promised. Yep, that's in that the story of Theranos. You know, the blood, Elizabeth Holmes thing. On hers was on steroids, but made a bunch of promises they couldn't keep, never be able to keep.

Julie R: 43:09

Yeah. But but we taught them as being successful. Right?

Lynn: 43:13

Put them on the cover of Fortune. Yeah, call them the next big thing. I got understanding the sustaining what it takes to create sustaining and you know, you're an accountant. So you understand this idea? No, no growing business ever cash flows and a shrinking business, always cash flows. Because, you know, you're, you're selling off assets and so forth. But the question is, how do you dance that tightrope, as I say, to grow in a way that is sustainable, and you're growing from within and your own ability to fund that over time, as opposed to setting yourself up? You know, in, in your analogy for ranching on hay is like, when companies take on way more debt that they can pay? Yeah.

Julie R: 43:56

Yeah. And right, like, like we bigger is not better. Right. It's knowing where we're powerful, like in our sovereignty, to be able to make choices in if we have autonomy in relationship, we can really start to develop a collaboration. But once I start having to give to you to get from you, that becomes manipulative. Whenever I start to demand of you to give to me that becomes dominant. Yeah. And, and really, our strongest, like the net is really strongest when we collaborate. Yeah. And what amazes me is I have yet to come across somebody who has the courage to speak about what really creates good relationships in business. And yet we say it's All about business. Its business is all about relationships. But we operate from the What can this relationship do for me? Like, how big is your email list? How many media followers do you have? What exposure can you give me? That's not the kind of relating that I'm talking about

Lynn: 45:19

me either. And, and it's not how I choose to relate with people. I don't relate with people, because I think they have something to offer me like that. Because we've already said to me, that shows up as being not as fulfilling anyway. But you're that, that that that transactional relationship that I, you know, I come to you because you can give me something. It's really hard, by the way, especially inside of a company to stay out of that, but this is the nature of our politics as well, like everything is based on that, and it's going to collapse on itself. Because you can't ever balance the books with those kinds of promises, or that that kind of gamesmanship. Yeah. But back to your Maslow thing, have you heard? Are you familiar with Scott Barry Kaufman, he wrote a book called transcendence, I believe was the name of it. And I actually have him in my book to put one of his diagrams in there because he said, like, he's a Maslow junkie, as he calls himself, but he said he got something wrong, because, but he said he didn't get it wrong. The pyramid that we all use with Maslow was not drawn by Maslow, it was, it was drawn by consultants in the 60s. So Maslow actually did not make that pyramid distinction, which gives you this picture that you have to have the bottom in order to have the top if you will, and that the top only happens once the bottom is solid. And Scott, Barry Kaufman says it's much more dynamic. And he uses a sailboat analogy. And he said, the core needs are your boat. And it has to not have it has to be free of holes, it has to be able to move through the water, but your self expression side of the equation, if you will, that's your sales. That's what moves you along. So your boat keeps you floating, and your sales give you motion. And I think that is the perfect sort of tight rope analogy that I could think of, because I always think that, you know, my idea of dancing the tightrope is, there's this, this beautiful place that you're not over and under doing it, you're not over and under reacting. You're not doing dominance versus victimhood. You know, you're not doing whatever, out of balance things on each continuum, you found that happy medium. And to me, his analogy is beautiful, because we need both a good boat and the sails. One without the other is no good.

Julie R: 47:42

It's not linear. What what's really interesting is I heard Simon Sinek in an in an interview, and he says, you know, they're not hierarchical. Have you ever heard of somebody committing suicide? Because they were hungry? Right, that speaks to our mental and our emotional needs? You know, I, I think that there's five personal needs, and they're a little bit different than Maslow's. You know, there are in our personal needs are our responsibility to meet. So they are physical, energetic, emotional, mental and spiritual. But then we're not Annika, could

Lynn: 48:25

you say that again? Slower? Because I know people are, like me are probably wanting to write this down. Physical, energetic. Yep,

Julie R: 48:32

energetic, emotional, mental, and spiritual,

Lynn: 48:36

mental and spiritual. Yeah.

Julie R: 48:38

So if we look at mindset, you know, and I think all of these layers are developing individually, like as we age, but then they also are developing all the time. If you think about our physical safety, when we're a child, you know, living at home, usually our circle of people is really small. And then as we get older, and we go to high school, and then college like that, our ability to maintain our own sense of safety should grow as we get exposed to larger groups of people. But so our physical could be what we eat, how we move, how, how we sleep. Yep, sleep, because the body needs sleep, which is different than rest rest is. So there's this. It's also our ability to take on responsibility for maintaining and caring for our resources, like oil in your car, managing your money, plugging your cell phone in, washing your clothes, those types of things. Now, energy is how we work with our sense of vitality, our sense of aliveness we You need to have solitude and step away from the noise? Or how can you go to something like an event like the summit and being engaged and receive energy from people, you know, there's, but how we manage our energy is really crucial. And I think a lot of people are so used to go, go, go push, push, push, they don't know how to navigate the waves of the sailboat or the terrain of the mountain. Right? Because we're not meant to be going 100 miles an hour, every day, all day.

Lynn: 50:35

There has to be recovery. In fact, this is what I focus so much on with people is the ability to recover both your energy and recover from mistakes. Because like, I you know, Kansas Carradine was on my podcast last week, and we talked about how she would take people out of balance to to teach for grinding, not because she wanted them to be out of balance, but she wanted them to have the confidence that they knew how to get back in balance. Yeah,

Julie R: 51:01

I would teach when I taught yoga. Yeah, like, we build strength in the wobble, so we have to be willing to wobble.

Lynn: 51:09

No, I like that, quote, we'd have to be willing to wobble. Yeah.

Julie R: 51:13

You know, and when I was a kid, I had a weeble wobble. Do you remember that was yes.

Lynn: 51:19

But but they don't fall down.

Julie R: 51:22

And so that that's a motto for strength?

Lynn: 51:25

Yeah.

Julie R: 51:27

And, and I, part of me was like, should we explain what a weeble wobble is?

Lynn: 51:35

I mean, it was weebles wobble, but they don't fall down. It was like that. It had like a heavy base. And you could push it, but it always righted itself. And it's a beautiful analogy for recovery. Because you could push it as far as you want it in, it always found a way to get back to center. And, you know, I think a lot of people live life like don't push me Don't make me wobble because I don't trust that I can come back. Yeah,

Julie R: 52:00

we want you to deep restraint. We use rules and account of fault. Instead of, oh, there's something that needs to happen. They're like, what, what's going on here? Let's figure this out. So we can get back to a sense of rightness, and righteousness?

Lynn: 52:18

No, right? Like back in balance, because we move through a balance point, right? It's a dynamic alignment. But we have to be out of balance. If it's because the dynamic things are moving all the time. And if you look at well, I just came out of the blizzard in Utah, and the trees bend in the wind. If they were rigid, they would break. Engineers finally realize we have to follow nature and they build buildings, tall buildings, with the right amount of sway. If they don't have display, the rigidity of the building will make them fall down.

Julie R: 52:51

Yeah. And what's interesting, I did some research on a on an email I sent this fall about, you know, we have this idea that fall is all about letting go and we just released the leaves. But what's really happening happening inside that tree is they're, they're responding to the signals that they need to conserve resources. As they pull those resources in to conserve resources.

Lynn: 53:22

They lose the leaves. Yeah. So

Julie R: 53:26

in ways it is letting go. But it's also their understanding. You know, it, I can articulate and speak through the trees, they're understanding the power of conservation, and knowing when to pull inside, and let go of what it looks like on the outside. Because the more leaves that are on the branches, the more weight that is on the branches, the more it's weighted down, and the more snow it will hold. And the less mobile it becomes.

Lynn: 54:01

And it has to also read the hidden life of trees. And this was one of the things that really struck me was that the trees are aware of when to conserve water. Because when the leaves are on the trees, they have to suck up 1000s of pounds of water all the way up from the ground and into those leaves. And the younger trees that don't know any better sometimes overuse the water and don't realize that they're going to suffer later because this this is a signal that you're not going to have water for a while. And you know, if you look at the idea of wintering, which we're in the middle of winter, as we're recording this, that that need to sort of do what l of nature does, which is sort of settle in and be quiet. You mentioned as we were getting on you haven't been out of your house in three days because of the weather that's there, but that to me is wintering like slowing things down. I've noticed for me I tend tend to wake up and go to sleep more with the sunrise and sunset which is really tough because I do. This is why I do pottery at night, because I don't want to go to bed at six o'clock at night. But I pretty much as much as I can fight to wake up with the light and without an alarm. And to sort of my entire rhythm in the winter is different than it is in the summer. I'm not nearly as Go, go go. I'm more inclined to do my walking type things for exercise as opposed to in the summer. I'm waterskiing. I ride you ride horses year round, but it's just a different rhythm in the winter.

Unknown: 55:31

It should be because we are nature. Yeah, if we

Lynn: 55:35

could only remember that. That's where we need to get all our clues like you know, I look at airplanes and they figured out flaps and landing gear and aerodynamics from watching birds. And actually, this is I have a pretty big heartache with airplane designers and we have airplanes that fly there, John airworthy 737 Max being one of them. But I have heartache when we build things that are not air worthy. Because we think we know better we think our computers can do better. But what you've done is put living human beings in planes that if the computer fails, they die. And well, they carted the bird. That's it. Because if you you know, I fly, and if my engine quits, I have a glider. And I can put that plane down. And this happens every day. I follow it. i One of my groups I follow on Facebook is an aviation group. Almost every day somebody puts a plane down on a highway. It happened in Asheville last month, or in a field and walks away when their engine quits. Because they have a glider when it's done. It's still an air worthy plane when the when the injured stuff. Yeah, but like you said, we've lost the bird. And I think it's a great metaphor for what we're doing to our society. It's like any place that we've done something that requires that level of human intervention or we die. We're off. We're off track.

Unknown: 56:53

Yeah. Yeah.

Lynn: 56:55

Yeah, that's, that's a whole subject. But I want to go back because you said something very interesting. earlier. And I would like to hear you riff on this a little bit about the sleep versus rest distinction?

Julie R: 57:11

Well, it's interesting it because it requires a tuning in, you know, when we are checked out and burning the candle at both ends, and doing more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more. We, to me have lost our connection with ourselves. We have lost our ability to tap into our guidance system.

Lynn: 57:36

I've talked about that I have a whole program on recalibrating your internal guidance system with your own tuning fork. Hmm.

Julie R: 57:44

Yeah. And, and so when we get good at developing our internal guidance system, we can feel the difference between needing to rest and needing sleep. And so sleep is where we go into, like, cellular repair, you know. And in fact, sleep is one of my goals and priorities. Because I know that when I sleep well, I think better I my mind fog is gone, I'm better able to be present with people I'm not so easily irritated. So sleep is where we are in ways recalibrating. And I haven't spoken to this before in this podcast, but after I left accounting, I became a massage therapist. So I've been doing massage for since 2008. And so it really has connected me to the body in a way that I think I always had when I was riding horses like that deep connection of even now I can feel in embodies, I can feel the difference between like an energetic or an emotional or mental tension versus a physical tension. And so rest is sometimes I put my hands on people, and they are just tired, and you feel the tiredness in their bones. And they need sleep and rest. There's other times where you just like your mind is spinning and you just need to quiet down like quiet internally quiet the internal disturbance and rest and so there's times like when when I'm working and I'm writing something and it's not quite coming together. I will go meditate. I will go you know just kind of it does that itchy sketch on my brain. And there are times where I know I just need to step away from my work because if I get in there and try and force it I'm just gonna get frustrated.

Lynn: 1:00:00

Would you say rest is where we put down the burdens were carrying? And letting them not have to be carried? That?

Julie R: 1:00:14

I think for me, it's probably different for everyone. I think rest is like when you're hiking up a really steep mountain, then you just need to pause for recovery. Hmm. Yeah. You know, it's, it's a, it's a tool to keep going. It's a signal that maybe you've done enough at the moment. Like, if, when I'm working with clients, I have a client recently that I, like they're, they're so used to just pushing the paper through. Then they said, When you complete one task, I want you to stand up from your desk and walk out your office door and come back. Because I'm training you to look for a stopping point in your day, where you can complete your days of work, and then go home. And if you can't recognize that sit that signal, you can take that same energy home with you.

Lynn: 1:01:13

And call that yeah, living life as a run on. Senate's Yeah, we're having any punctuation. Yeah. Like put a period in there once in a while. Or a comma. Yeah, even a comma would be good. Yeah,

Julie R: 1:01:25

a semicolon. Yes. I've done all this, and I need a rest for five minutes. Well,

Lynn: 1:01:32

if anybody ever tries to read a book without punctuation, without any commas or periods, they quickly understand what they're doing to their lives. Because you can't like the rest is what it's the space between the notes. It's the negative space in a piece of art. It's those little moments of pause, that let us take in what's happening. And, you know, Jim, Lord did a great job in his books, talking about for athlete's recovery of oscillation, like, you know, one of the experiences that he was talking about was autographing in batches. And he would instead of like when he was given a bunch of books to autograph, you know, instead of doing 100, in one fell swoop, he would do 10 and pause, 10 and pause. And he could do that all day long. Yeah, but if you did, 100, with non stop, that would kind of be all he could do in a day. Yeah. And then he had, like his rest was put upon him as opposed to his choice. Well, it's interesting.

Julie R: 1:02:31

I am not a runner. But I did run for a couple years in my life. And the only place I ever ran was in the icebreaker and the local, fun run. But how they trained us was interval training. Yes, you know, you run for one minute walk for one minute run for one minute walk for one minute, and you do that for 30 minutes. Cool. And, and I never ran a marathon, but the person who is training us said, you know, I actually cut time off my marathon time by doing intervals. And, and that, and then, obviously, you staggered the time, then you'd run for like two minutes and walk for one, you know, and then use you worked with it to find like the right mix of activity and rest activity, unrest or unrest doesn't mean do nothing necessarily. It could be back off from the intensity. Right? You know, like when people are really dealing with their inner critic. I always say if you're used to kicking yourself, if you kick yourself one less time, that self care.

Lynn: 1:03:44

That's that's the beginning. Right? Yeah, just

Julie R: 1:03:46

start with, okay. You're used to be writing yourself for 10 minutes. Okay. Do it for nine minutes and 59 seconds.

Lynn: 1:03:55

That's progress and give yourself credit for the progress. No. So we talked at the beginning, you were talking about the two before. So I have often referred to beating myself up as with the two before, right. And it's that it's that thing where I could be the two before for you. I can be beating you up which by the way, when you describe yourself as the two before I was like, Oh, I was two I was like so strident, and so get after it. And I even I was a risk manager at the bank. So I got to be known as the bank bitch, because I was the one that said no to loans. But I think there was more to it than that. I think I truly was probably two people the bank bitch. But learning how not to beat yourself up. I think that's the beginning of coming out of the hole,

Julie R: 1:04:39

I think is recognizing that I didn't

Lynn: 1:04:43

Yeah, and often that we're okay, let's say I'm not beating myself up. Let's say I'm beating you up. I'm still beating myself up through you. Yes, yep. Right. And it's my inability to tolerate things going wrong, which is back to the weeble wobble thing. Like we have to be able to tolerate being gotta balance.

Julie R: 1:05:02

Yeah. Yeah, it's it's the, the ability to deal with what is, you know, I had this friend in college and and this is kind of like, how our backgrounds are different her parents taught her how to advocate for herself. So she can go up and talk to somebody about, oh, well, we would like to create this. And they would say no. And she didn't say, Well, what about this? And what about? And here's an idea of how it could work. And I was taught to not ask. Mm hmm. A lot of us were and, and in reality, I tell parents all the time, and I am not a parent. But I tell parents all the time, the most empowering thing you can do for your kid is teach them to ask for what they need and want

Lynn: 1:05:53

and be able to take no for an answer. Because guess what, you might get a no.

Julie R: 1:05:56

Well, that's part of negotiation because well, is when I didn't ask and didn't ask and didn't ask and didn't ask and didn't ask. I went without and went without and went without. And then when I needed air, I went, Oh, yeah, you know, there's a demand. And then I didn't get it. And then I made myself wrong. This is the hamster wheel of self improvement that I talked about. And then I made myself wrong. So instead of learning how to ask for my needs, sooner, I denied it. So the intensity got stronger, I would react, demand it, then I'd feel guilty and feel bad. And I tried to, I tried to change the need, I tried to not need it. Mm hmm. And so that just creates more enduring more resentment, more overwhelm. Because our needs are wired into our nervous system. If we don't get what we want, at times, we start playing small. We quit going after what we want. But when we win all the time, and never hear no, we have to deal with our ability to take no for an answer. So there's this whole development process. That's why I call myself a personal development coach, because it's, it's not helping you perform, it's developing you into who you are proud to be, who you can count on yourself, being who people can count on you being and being a person you really know and love, and are proud to be, and you participate and contribute from there. You know, a lot of our bosses have never been developed as into a human being that is not rewarded for their performance. And that can be a very lonely, isolating, in fact, I would say even terrifying place to be. Because you don't have anybody who will tell you the truth. You don't have anyone who will tell you no. And I don't believe we really have relationship until we can acknowledge somebody else's know and respect their know, that

Lynn: 1:08:15

is such a powerful statement. And I can say, working with so many people in the boss world, a lot of the people my clients are bosses of other people, sometimes hundreds of 1000s of people. And while they may not personally acknowledge it is terrifying. It is, as they would call it because stress, stress and anxiety are the blurry words we use for you know, fear scared. Yeah. Right. But what what they would say, and I actually, I actually did have a client once, we were in a room of a couple of 100 people. And I had done an opening exercise with the group about how to make decisions. And to we did like a little 10 question quiz, to give them a sense of how their decision certainty was, like, you can you know, you're going to answer these questions within a range of certainty. And you can make up the range of certainty. But the punchline was, that they don't know nearly as much as they think they do. And so they really wanted to help people understand how important it is to stress test your assumptions. And, you know, really interrogate the reality you're working around. But in the middle of that conversation, somebody raised his hand and he goes, this is all well and good, but what about the fact that we can't tell anybody the truth, it's above us in the organization. And of course, I'm there as the boss's who's standing in the corner, you know, person that he brought in, and so I just like stopped the room and said, Okay, we have an opportunity now to talk about how to get truth up to the top. And I look over at the client said, Are you going for this? He goes This is all I want to do. And the rest of the conversation was how to tell truth to power.

Julie R: 1:10:05

Yeah. Or power without truth.

Lynn: 1:10:09

I would 100% agree. But this was actually in a, this was in a in a setting where there was a lot more politics than your average place because it was the DC, the DC matrix, I would call it and the idea of being able to, I think it comes from what you were describing earlier, advocate for yourself, if you don't know how to do that you cannot ever speak truth to power? And the the simple fact is, I've observed it is the people who do have some level of ability to do that, to negotiate for what they need to be able to say no, especially to somebody that's above them in the organization. Or to say that doesn't make sense. Those are the people who claim. Yeah, it's not the people who sit back and try to please everybody.

Julie R: 1:10:52

Yeah, and it comes back to when we don't know what our needs are. We have we struggled to thrive. Because our our needs are where we need to invest. It's the foundation.

Lynn: 1:11:11

You know, something you said interestingly about our needs that brought this up. And it was a big insight. For me, I was reading. And I don't remember who wrote the book, but it was a book about brain power and how we're hardwired and how our needs are hardwired. It was the first time I came to recognize that fairness is hardwired. Because if you are living in a small group of people, and you've, let's say, make one kill to feed the group for the next, what several days or whatever, if one person is the glutton and takes it all, you're taking away from other people's life. And animals get this animals know if you anybody that's ever thought of her herd of horses, they know who got the most food, always

Julie R: 1:11:59

hoarding of any kind is a psychological defect, even if we call it success. Even if we look over there and say they have more, so they have success. They're six more successful hoarding of any kind is a psychological defect.

Lynn: 1:12:17

Yeah, because it's a fear of not having enough and not being enough. I have to say, I probably have some of that I have I look around I see I'm no I'm definitely hoarding books right now. I'm looking at the stack going, would that qualify? I've got about 15 books on this stack over here, only half of which I've read.

Julie R: 1:12:37

Well, right. I even think like, there, there's a spectrum on that, too. Because what I hear is you might be hoarding books, but you're sharing the wisdom of those books. Trying, not hoarding.

Lynn: 1:12:52

Okay. Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah. But, um, but I and I also feel like, as I have, as I have grown older and grown within myself, and I don't think those are the same things. Because I know a lot of people who have grown older who haven't grown within themselves, but I have become much, much more willing to let things pass through, as opposed to holding on. And, you know, letting go of things that I don't need, so that someone else can enjoy them. Yeah, you know, I just put my favorite pair of snow boots this morning on the to go out list. Because I've got another I needed a new pair, because these are there. I've loved them for many, many years, but I've had them for 20 years. And they're just not serving me anymore. And I've kept him probably in the corner of the closet for five years longer than they need to be because I haven't worn them in five years now.

Julie R: 1:13:47

And so I need an emotional need.

Lynn: 1:13:50

They will they might have been meeting and maybe they don't now, and that's why we let them go, right. But I looked at them. And I said this is not right, somebody else needs to have these boots. And that that to

Julie R: 1:14:02

me is a natural progression. Right, because at one time you needed them. Yeah. And you needed them and you needed them and you needed them and then you didn't but there is still an attachment there, which is more of an emotional or sentimental need, which

Lynn: 1:14:17

is why it's so hard to declutter. Yeah, because I got a lot of emotional attachments to certain things.

Julie R: 1:14:24

And I don't think that there's anything wrong with that. One of the people I listened to talks about whatever grows accumulates, and what we accumulate is memories. And then we get attached to the identity of our memories. And that's why we have trouble creating a new self. But I do think like you're saying there's a natural progression of others a cycle of, you know, when I was teaching yoga, there's how you enter a pose. There's how you express a pose. There's how you exit a pose and Hmm, you don't go back and try and create the same pose, you create the pose, new again. And what you're speaking to with your ski boots is that progression. There was a time when they entered your life, there was an expression while you use them. And then there was the exit strategy that was five years, you know, and now you're like, Okay, I'm, it's a natural way of letting it go. It's a release, not something pulling away or clinging to.

Lynn: 1:15:32

Right, it's a release. That's, that's, that's either side that clinging versus pulling away. Somebody's taking them away. That's those two sides of the tightrope with the being on the tightrope being the release. Yeah, that's a beautiful way to look at it. Yeah, so now, you said you were just mentioning the yoga poses? Do you still teach yoga and do massage therapy as well as your tell me what you're doing? Describe your life now. Like, what's it like?

Julie R: 1:15:59

Ah, you know, okay, as a person I've always craved the security. That's why I went into accounting is it was going to be secure and inconsistent. And what I find is sometimes our, our spiritual path, like who were born to be, and our life plan for ourselves, don't jive. And so basically, after I left my accounting job, I went into massage therapy. And that was working with a mentor at the time. And she's she asked me, she's, she's like, so what, what is it that you desire to do? And he immediately like, I don't even know where this came from. It was, I want to touch what hurts and do no harm.

Lynn: 1:16:53

Yeah. So what's coming up for you right now?

Julie R: 1:16:59

In right, like, that was that glimmer? I heard back in college. Of I've never heard anyone speak was such a passion. For this healing, I wouldn't have call it healing back then. Right? It would have been, Oh, I'm gonna help people. I'm going to help them improve. I want them to do better. And I hate the word better. Better, what? Let's get what's better, like define better, because often better is a place that we're never going to get to. Because we haven't ever looked at what better really is. And so I went into massage and I, like I went on this really deep, spiritual journey of really understanding my life's purpose who I am. I went to a healer in Bali. And it basically, I went there for a yoga retreat, and the yoga retreat got canceled because the volcano was erupting. Oh, well, yeah, it was on eminent eruption. And so it was my first international solo trip like 100% solo, I went three weeks, and I am, I am doing all these energetic grounding techniques. And all of these. I'll just say energy clearing practices that helped me stay like really calm in the presence of I don't know what I'm walking into. And what ended up what I ended up seeing is I went to, I follow through with my plan i of where the yoga retreat was going to be held. And I was the only one that continued there. Because the evacuate camp was in the village that I went to, like, you know, it doesn't make sense. You want to move the retreat and charge me more money because it's costing you more money, when in reality, they've evacuated all the people that are a lot of the people to this village because it's a safe space. And so in that, like I had eight days of just kind of nothing. And so they asked me what I wanted to do and the the person well, she, I believe she was like the executive director of this community. And I told her I'm like, I would like to see a healer you know, I'm struggling with some things in my life and I want to go see this healer and I had, I had prophetic dreams. And so I had dreams that were coming true while I was on this trip. And one of them I had this dream of this little brown boy peeing off a porch. I mean, like two, three years old. And when we walked into that temple to see the healer, here's this little brown boy peeing off the porch. Wow. And I walked in, and I sat down in front of him. And I literally just started crying. And it lasted about two hours all through an interpreter. I was the only white person there. And it was just it was really profound. I mean, he spoke things into my life that there's no way he could know about me. No. And he, I literally vibrated, like, in a meditation with him, like I looked to see if I was bouncing off the ground, I was deliberating that intensely. I mean, it curled up into a little egg, like I put my hands on my head and my elbows on my knees, and I'm sitting there, and it was probably the most intense, intensely spiritual and mundane thing I've ever experienced. But at the same time, like I was completely aware of something profound is happening. And also completely aware of where I was. And a lot of things just fell in place for me from that. Now, so after that, I came back, I went in 2017. And then in 2019, I started doing coaching. And so I'm finding this balance, because I've just recently returned to doing massage work. Oh, really. And there is something that that happens for me, it happened when I was riding horses there. And to me, like I experienced the world through touch I am. If you start talking about like the other gifts that we have, I'm Clairsentience I have an ability to feel things are beyond me. And so working with massage and working with bodies, like it's amazing. Like I had somebody on my table recently that was saying, push harder. And I'm like, No, I said, what I want to encourage you to do is learn how to relax. You're so used to pushing and you're so braced in your body. That it feels like I have to push harder for you to feel anything. But really you have to soften in order to be able to feel and and so I am really toying with I and I shared with you before we got on like this is my time where I spend time writing and doing some personal channeling work and just more like automatic writing. Like I asked questions to my higher self and then I journal and you know about my life about what I bring to the table how I need to participate and and it's a practice that circles in and out. But right now, like this practice is really active for me and and it's telling me I need to teach again. And I don't know what that's gonna look like, yet. I know my purpose in life is deep transformational healing. Hmm. Not everybody's ready for that. And the modalities I use are words in touch. And, and that's why, like when writing when I was younger, like why riding horses was so powerful to me because it was plugging me into my purpose. Doesn't mean I'm a horse trainer. I mean, I've trained horses but but it helped reveal a piece of me that it will take me a lifetime, if not lifetimes to understand. And I think that's the the spiritual journey of of B. It's the challenge of being able to see your spiritual journey and how you're developing as a being versus who you are as a human.

Lynn: 1:24:21

Julie, where where would you put energy in your modalities? Like you said, words in touch, but what came up for me as well was energy

Julie R: 1:24:31

that you use? Well. To be totally honest, I'm an empath. So I pick up on all the energies around me and that's why the board room was probably the most terrifying place on the planet to me. It had nothing to do with my skills had nothing to do with what I brought to the table. But I could feel energetically, I was picking up on I will say all the undercurrents all the undertones of what was really going on. And I didn't have a language to speak to it, or even an awareness or knowledge. And so that was a huge contribution to my burnout because I didn't have a language for energy. And yet, I say to this day, if you can read a cow, if you can read a horse, you're reading energy. Correct, you're reading an invisible intention.

Lynn: 1:25:38

And so, and moving things with it, like you can move an animal with nothing but energy. Yeah.

Julie R: 1:25:46

And so, really, like part of that is when you when you harness that power of your own personal energy is is really, to me that success when you have a command of your own spirit, when you and I don't mean like a domination like I'm controlling it, it's with with the horse. And you're riding a horse, like you're riding borrowed energy, you're riding borrowed power.

Lynn: 1:26:27

I have said that so many times. And

Julie R: 1:26:30

well. But the thing is, is there's I used to say like you can see when we sync it's not collapsing to get in meshed in saying we are two autonomous beings creating something bigger together in harmony in harmony. Gao data is power. And power requires a vulnerability. It's, I can I was writing one of the last horses I rode was this big truck caner. And he was a retired eventing horse. And I turned him at as a sensitive soul with a goofy personality. And the first time I wrote him, I just kind of wrote him around. And I would say I snuck a ride on him. Because, I mean, he was a big horse. And I mean, I'm used to my dad took me to the mountains at nine years old, I wrote double behind my brother for three days and up on a pack saddle pad, like I have written some in some places, and some horses that No, not a lot of people got along with, I'll say that. And so the second time I rode him, his trainer was there, and the person I was riding with my trainer was there. And he this horse kicked some dirt against a barn door and he sucked sideways, like, probably 15 feet, and I'm an English saddle. And I caught his shoulders, like with my my cues, my hands on my legs. And, and when I caught him, he started rare. And I reached down and grabbed a handful of mean and I went, don't do that and I jerked on his mouth twice. Quiet, and I wrote him off and both trainers jumped out of their seat. And my trainer said you didn't even lose your seat. And the other trainer said, you just proved your worth his time worthy

Lynn: 1:28:39

of Him. This is the thing a lot of times people don't understand is the horse is asking, Are you worthy of working with me? Can we be in harmony? Like, it's like, I use this example so many times. As a non surfer. It's hysterical. But I heard LAIRD HAMILTON once sees a great big wave surfer. Surfer describe the ocean. And he says don't go out there. If you don't know how to ride those waves. The ocean doesn't care. Yeah, it will eat you alive. Yeah. And it's the same as like, don't ride a horse that you're not worthy of right? Like he showed you. I have this power. Are you up for this? Yes. And you said we can dance. He called me

Julie R: 1:29:19

into being.

Lynn: 1:29:20

I love that. You know,

Julie R: 1:29:22

like he asked. He's like, I'm an athlete.

Lynn: 1:29:28

Mm hmm.

Julie R: 1:29:29

And you can you match me? And the thing is, is I didn't hold it against him.

Lynn: 1:29:36

He was just asking.

Julie R: 1:29:38

I just carried on and I took a deep breath and I'm like, okay, and and a lot of people say you ride your horse every step. I was like this horse I wrote every footfall.

Lynn: 1:29:47

Exactly, I mean, more things happening between every stride. Well, that's you know, in this I'm telling you about the like five part cycle I have. That's the fourth part of the cycle is breaking things down into the tiniest frames. And then But then getting in sync with your tuning fork at every tiny little frame. Because, you know, writing off was 500 frames. Yeah.

Julie R: 1:30:11

But but something that I always I know, I didn't always do something I learned to do as a writer. You know, after I burned out, like, I was working through a lot of stuff, like, What'd I do wrong? What did they do wrong? You know? Like, I was looking for the blame to feel better. And yeah. And like, one day, I walked out to catch my horse. And this was a horse that would come running from the pasture to meet me at the gate. And he was avoiding me. It was like, you know, our hair. You know, keep avoiding me. And one day, I was just like, Okay, I recognize like, there's something going on inside of me that I don't even understand. But I promise you, I won't beat you up with my bullshit. I will come out here and if I feel like I'm an arraignment, I'm gonna ring and hang. And I'm gonna get on your back. I just won't get on. And, and I won't say that it changed our relationship with that horse. But the true caner that I was riding I remember, I would go out and, and he was fun. Like, he would see me at the gate. And you'd be like, he had Winnie at me. You know, he was he was fun. He was engaging, like I would leave the bar when he would even come in, but his head would be in there watching. Right not like not mean, but I started just noticing. Like, when I'd brush him, he would kick at my hand. He would I tied to the the first time I tied him to a trailer, he looked in place for 45 minutes. And I just let him I was like, I've got a book, I'll let you work this out. And so that was my thing that I worked with him is I tied him to the trailer and I let him stand until I stood still and then I'd go turn him loose. And and so uh, basically like I was getting bodywork done on him. Because as a massage therapist, I believe in the power of it. And, and I remember I walked him into this barn and I tied him to the fence and I walked out. And I came back in and he looked at me kind of naked, and he goes, Oh, nervous system completely let down just seeing me. And so by the time I returned him, because he was kind of permanently loan for me as long to me as long as I took care of him. And when I recognized I was stepping away from horses, and I returned him. The last vision I have of him was standing at the trailer with his head level, and his hind leg cocked in a complete state of relaxation. And I'm like, that is what I do.

Lynn: 1:33:00

Yeah, and you take, you take nervous systems, human and horse, probably other animals too. And bring them back into equilibrium.

Julie R: 1:33:11

Well, and even like circling back to needs, one of the most powerful things I recognized is, I am personally responsible for the felt sense of safety, I feel inside and create inside. That means I don't put myself in situations, especially like as I was going through some really deeply healing processes. I didn't put myself in places where I had to armor up to go in. I just didn't go now I can go there. And I'm not affected. Because I've taken responsibility for my need of safety. Personally, and y'all I will speak to it will be like, though, your tone of voice is way over the top. You know, do we need to take a breath? Do we need to step away? Do we need to come back to have this conversation? But I'm not comfortable? And I'm not willing to be in a place where I have to constantly be uncomfortable and protecting myself. Yeah. And and so but I have voice to it. And and I think that's where the words come in but but it's an energetic felt sense of creating a sovereignty creating an autonomy and agency and really claiming my authenticity.

Lynn: 1:34:38

So, back to that original question I asked you about where does the energy fit with your words in your touch? The energy comes through your words and comes through your touch. When you say I

Julie R: 1:34:53

read a long time ago until we learn to emit our own vibration, we We will just become a collection of the energies around us. And so really like as I was going through like that deeply spiritual process, I kept asking, what's my energy? What's my light, my vibration? And it doesn't mean that my vibration doesn't fluctuate or change. But I don't believe that there's anything negative about energy. Definitely

Lynn: 1:35:31

nothing negative, we may have a negative connotation.

Julie R: 1:35:35

Yeah, we interpret energy to be negative, but really, those became signals. Yeah,

Lynn: 1:35:41

everything is energy. Let's get down to the physics of it. Right? This is the beautiful thing about it. And I love that we can actually talk about it now. Because years ago, when I was teaching the leadership program, where we started to introduce the topic of energy, we had to be really careful how we talked about it, because people would put their fingers up and go, Oh, that's Whoo, you're going into weird territory, because it's, quote unquote, insane. And it's like, yeah, just because it's insane. Doesn't mean it's real, not real. And

Julie R: 1:36:10

believe me, if you spend any time meditating, your thoughts are just as unreliable as your emotions. That's why I say not logic. In fact, David Hawkins, I, I have only read some of his work.

Lynn: 1:36:25

That's where the power versus force comes from. Yeah.

Julie R: 1:36:28

But he says in there. We in I'm not going to quote it. I'm going to summarize it there. But it's something along the lines of, we're not meant we're not logical. And we're not emotional. We are driven by patterns. That is why I would always work in places where they didn't give us the resources we needed, because I knew how to deal with that. Right? When I worked at the accounting firm, where I had all that time off, and they poured into us, like, do you want to do an education, they would pay for it? It was weird to me. Like, I worked even harder in ways for them, because I was trying to make up for the deficit of them giving so much to me.

Lynn: 1:37:21

Interesting. But that's being driven by a pattern, like you said, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, if you look at so much of success, you know, I was teaching one of my nephews to play a new card game. And he picked it up really fast. And I said, How did you do that? And he goes, Oh, it's just pattern recognition. And he said, what I do when I'm out, because he's a big wildlife guys out in the wilderness all the time. Because it's what I do with animals. He says, You have to start figuring out their patterns.

Julie R: 1:37:51

Yeah. Yeah. You know, like, we, like, we didn't never have to go get our horses from the pasture. Mm hmm. You know, a lot of times, my dad would start calling the horses from the house. And as he would walk to the barn, those horses would be coming in. You bet. Because

Lynn: 1:38:11

I know the pattern. We just got. My dog has been for the last week with my daughter while we were on the ski trip. And she's got a different set of patterns. And this morning, I was marveling, she's 17 months old, how well she knows the patterns of our house. Not the pattern. She was at her house. But as soon as she was here, like everything we did this morning, just sort of it was so I was like, This is so lovely, because we have a routine and is a pattern and she understands it. If I tried to upset the applecart which occasionally I do just to keep her on her toes. She has she has a little moment of white, what are we doing?

Julie R: 1:38:46

Yeah. But and you don't correct the behavior? No, you know, like that. I think that's, you know, something, I'm really looking at you like back back to the what is my life look like? Now, it's some coaching some massage. And, and I'm looking for opportunities to start teaching again, I don't know that that will be yoga, it might be Yoga. But I really believe in this embodiment of, of knowledge of wisdom, and and I feel like that's kind of something that's opening up for me with just some opportunities that are coming my way. So it really like my life looks like I'm just going with the flow. I'm seeing rising. I'm seeing what works, and I'm creating workability and it's not an overreaction from something that was missed in my growth and development. It's really in ways in ways I think it's Just as terrifying to step into complete into something completely unknown and new, as it is to stay stuck in where we're at. I mean, it, it's exciting. And yet, I'm like, wow, like, what does authenticity really looked like? I thought I've been being pretty authentic my whole life. I mean, I see moments of where I misinterpreted things as being authentic. But the more authentic I get, the more space I see. To be authentic. You know, I heard a long time ago, the journey of a soul takes a lifetime. And so what does it look like to never arrive? What does it look like to never have it nailed down? Everybody who's worked with me is like, you know, I don't know what you do, Julie. I don't either. I don't either. Um, because I have this really unique financial background, and like this understanding of nature, and humans and horses and energy and the healing arts. So I, you know, when I was I was just looking for, like, I want to get down to the, the code of life, like, I want to know, all the building blocks of, of understanding. And so when I dive into something, I, I really go deep. I would rather read one book three times. Then read several books.

Lynn: 1:41:54

Right. That's strike. That's what I've been picking up in this conversation is you dive, you dive down to the nugget. Yeah.

Julie R: 1:42:03

I, and in ways like, I mean, massage clients I've had, I have a client that says, I came to you for headaches, and you unraveled the way I walk? Like, because I'm always like, what's that? I've actually been able to get people to recognize different emotions in different areas of their body, because like, this tension feels different than to this tension. What what do you what do you think of when you have this tension? You know, when I'm working on this tension, and what are you thinking? And it's amazing what? Oh, really, that's

Lynn: 1:42:41

a whole can of worms we could open because I don't know if I told you this. But on mystic waters, we have a massage therapy site. And so there's a woman on a Brit berkland. We call her Anna. She goes, she she is a phenomenal body worker, and has developed many, many of her own techniques, and is now training others. So that's very, very cool. But she and I've been unraveling something in May for the last six months that came up from a session I did with a horse and Bruce Anderson back in June. And what we've recognized is it's something I've been carrying attention I've had my whole life, maybe even maybe even pre birth, like maybe ancestral. Yeah. And, you know, it's been several sessions that we finally started recognizing what we were getting into. And just a sort of unraveling and letting each layer go. But it's been transformative for me. Yeah, to recognize that we were letting go of these emotions that I've really carried in certain muscles. And most people don't understand that. So when you were describing to me what your life looks like now, and what your coaching is, I'm like, there's probably no more powerful intersection than someone who can, you know, put the ontological side with the financial or the business side, like, very few people know those two intersections. So I'm guessing that people that work with you are truly embodying a wisdom that would otherwise not be possible. Yeah.

Julie R: 1:44:18

And they have to be ready for it. That's what I'm finding. I have a friend remind me all the time, you are not for beginners.

Lynn: 1:44:29

Me too. I've had because I have a similar intersection. If I'm not a body worker, like you are, but I'm definitely working with the energy and and the deep, sort of the deep, the deep, deep work, but I am not the initiator, if somebody wants initiation. I have a phenomenal network of coaches and I have a couple of people who are really good at initiating people into the work, but it's not me. I'm for people who've been a little bit on the path and they're ready to accelerate. Yeah, and I don't mean accelerate my go faster. But if Really, that's the wrong word. It's go deeper. It's like, that's why it's my business is creative spirits unleashed? Because it literally means your how do we unleash your inner creative spirit? Yeah, the you that was born on this planet.

Julie R: 1:45:14

Yeah. And in there there is this, oh, the person who likes words doesn't help words

Lynn: 1:45:23

they're coming.

Julie R: 1:45:28

I think maybe that's for Life Is this where it leaves us speechless. In that, ah, in that wonder in that I don't have it figured out and it excites me, it pulls me forward, instead of trying to fix something. I have all these little phrases like when fixing mux it up. And hard work doesn't work when problem solving is your problem. Because they're all strategies that get in the way of really creating our life. And yet, we're taught that if you don't like the way something is fix it, change it. And we never say, if you don't like something, I'm not encouraging anybody to do arson, but start with a match burn.

Lynn: 1:46:20

As was, as was the case with your social media profile, which we've ended up really embracing? Yeah, that's really what happened. It's like somebody starting over from a burn house. Yeah. And

Julie R: 1:46:30

I also think, I have learned to see, like, even walking away from my accounting career was just a spiritual correction, it was a life correction, just like a market correction. I was too far away from my soul's purpose to do that job. It doesn't mean that job won't contribute to my, my soul's purpose. Because I learned things, you know, because I was always looking at how things related, I was always improving systems and processes. In fact, I read a book on six sigma, because I had this issue and accounts payable, then, you know, and I'm like, if we don't pay late fees, and we don't pay interest, then we have to get our shit together. We're not going to not have our shit together, and then demand that we get these fees back or we're not going to do business with them. That's not how I operate. It lacks integrity. So let's get it right over here. And one day, well, probably one time in the middle of the night, when I woke up and I was still working.

Lynn: 1:47:50

happens to me all that used to happen to me all the time. Yep. I was like,

Julie R: 1:47:54

This is it. And so I completely changed the system. And within weeks, the chatter went away in the end. And and so, in ways, what I do is I help people really find that internal disturbance and work with it until it gets quiet.

Lynn: 1:48:16

Oh, that's, that's what I call the interference. How do we reduce the interference signal versus noise. So similar, are as we started this conversation, which could go on for hours, but I think we'll give our listeners a chance to do something else. But I really feel that kinship with you that connection of how similar our backgrounds have been. And, you know, to some degree, I would hope that a conversation like this calls out to the people who are still stuck in that to say there's peace on the other side of this. If you're burned out. For those of you listening, you should go find Julie, because she knows how to get you back in your body. Yeah.

Julie R: 1:48:56

And it doesn't mean uprooting your life like I did. It could be but it doesn't have to be.

Lynn: 1:49:03

I have have few of my clients at the beginning at least uproot their lives. Occasionally, sometimes people move into a new thing, but most of the time they're achieving this in place. Yeah.

Julie R: 1:49:15

Yeah. Yeah. I've had clients come to me and say, Help me quit my job. And no,

Lynn: 1:49:23

yeah, I don't either. I have the same thing. It's like we're not gonna make you a refugee. Yeah, we're gonna help you be a pilgrim.

Julie R: 1:49:31

Now, if you empower Lee step out. We will create if that's really what you want to do, I will help you step out in an empowered way. So you don't burn out and crash like I did. But it's not really. If we just move from one pond to the next without doing any inner work. We just drag all of that with us. Correct. So if you want a new beat meaning it requires doing some internal work. It requires knowing and understanding yourself in a different way

Lynn: 1:50:09

to I last year, at the podcast Summit, Michelle and I witnessed in a Shawn cook helping someone do that going from one town to another, and one barn to another, was one of the most powerful things I've ever seen, because he sensed that she was running away and going to take all the crap with her. And in the course of less than 30 minutes with some very pointed questions, and Nishan unwillingness to accept any of her bullshit. And we all had bullshit, but just helped her see it for herself, really. He helped her find that empowered way to move on. And what was beautiful. I saw her at this year's podcast Summit, and said, So how are you? And how did it go after that conversation with him? And she said, it's so great. And he helped me leave in an empowered way. Yeah. And that's the, that's what you're describing. So that's beautiful. So Julie, how do people if they want to, I'm sure people are going to hear this and want to work with you? How do they find you? How do they learn more about it? How do they make contact with you?

Julie R: 1:51:19

Well, my website is Julie ripley.com. And

Lynn: 1:51:23

how great that you have your name as your website, that's not that easy to do.

Julie R: 1:51:28

No. I heard that a long time ago, and I

Lynn: 1:51:32

nabbed it. I did too, I got mine in 2001.

Julie R: 1:51:36

I, I can't remember when I got mine. Um, and then probably the best place to start is I have a self connection assessment. And so they would just take the assessment and see where they're at.

Lynn: 1:51:53

Okay. And then you could see where they're at as well.

Julie R: 1:51:56

Yes, yeah. And then it's just a starting point. And then, then the next step would be to do a discovery call, I am still a really hands on coach. Me too. I find that I've been trying to draft a direct digital course. And I really think that the energy is different. Yeah, I think we need each other. And I think we need live coaching.

Lynn: 1:52:26

I, here's what I where I am on the content creation side of this world is, if I'm repeating myself, I put it in a format that people can go read, so that we can then talk about it. But I don't ever want to be completely hands off. I like having people engaged. And I've experimented with at the podcast summit, I did a full course which all my clients are getting, and some people who aren't my clients went through. But that is really for them to understand sort of where I'm coming from, so they can choose to work with me or not. But if you want to really learn what's in there, you're not going to learn it from my course. Yeah, you're not you're gonna learn it, because you have to, you have to actually have some help. Yeah, it takes

Julie R: 1:53:11

people recognizing, like Nishan, that you're running away instead of stepping away, away and powerfully. Yeah, you haven't clarified where you want to go. So don't leave yet.

Lynn: 1:53:24

And you can't do that for yourself. I've often said, when I'm coaching someone like that, it's like you're trying to stand in the bucket and lift yourself up at the same time, you have to have somebody help you step out of the bucket. And that's going to be what creates the movement, there are just certain coaching changes you cannot make on your own. Yes, and I heard loud and clear that you've worked with others, other healers and other people that helped you as I've I and so anybody by the way, seeking a coach, my my first thing to say is if you are looking for a coach, make sure that they have had or have a coach, because they don't they're gonna work their stuff out on you if they don't, yeah,

Julie R: 1:54:02

well, and I there's been times like, I share this with my coaching clients too. I want you to work with me and have an integration period and then come back and work with me. You know, so it sort of depends on the rhythm you're finding with your coach. You know, I have clients that we really work through something and, and they need time to work it out. And in fact, I I really like having coaching sessions a week to two weeks apart. I don't like to do once a month. I think too much time passes. Yeah, because but if I am starting to like every two weeks,

Lynn: 1:54:43

that's about my rhythm. Yeah, has it. You

Julie R: 1:54:46

have enough life between sessions, where you're starting to see where it's not working, and everybody has a different rhythm like and then their schedules to contend with. So I think that there's periods where I, for me, there's been periods for I've worked with coaches, and sometimes two coaches at a time, and then haven't worked with anyone. And then I might find a body worker that I work with for a while, and then I might not work with anyone, and then it might be, you know, going to a healer than it might be coming back to a coach or, you know, I like to call them mentors, because I've worked with a lot of people in you know, like, I've done a leadership track where it's really corporate America. At this time, I'm doing like an integrative body, like 12 month, rearrange my body and my being at the same time. So and then I won't do anything for like a year and just kind of left that. Yeah. So I think everybody has the right to find their own recipe, their own rhythm. Yeah. But it is we need each other.

Lynn: 1:56:05

Oh, that's the whole point of the connection, isn't it? And we can't be connected, as you say, to others, unless we're connected to ourselves. Yeah. So this has been phenomenal. I could go on all afternoon. But

Julie R: 1:56:19

I love it. Like, I just feel like my heart is wide open with you.

Lynn: 1:56:23

I will mine too. And of course, we are going to be in touch. But for those of you listening, I hope you've enjoyed this conversation. And if you did, please share it with your friends, your colleagues, others that you think might find it. Interesting. As Julie said, check out herself connection assessment. And if you're interested in knowing more about what I do, or staying in touch, seeing some of those things I'm putting out regularly myself mainly for my clients. But it all goes in through the coaching digest, you can sign up for that at Learn current stock calm. And with that, we will see you at the next podcast. Thank you for listening to the creative spirits unleashed podcast. I started this podcast because I was having these great conversations and I wanted to share them with others. I'm always learning in these conversations, and I wanted to share that kind of learning with you. Now what I need to hear from you is what you want more of and what you want less of. I really want these podcasts to be a value for the listeners. Also, if you happen to know someone who you think might love them, please share the podcast and of course subscribe and rate it on the different apps that you're using, because that's how others will find it. Now, I hope you go and do something very fun today.