#70 Mary Connaughty-Sullivan: Nudges from the Other Side

Intro: 0:02

Welcome to Creative Spirits Unleashed, where we talk about the dilemmas of balancing work and life. And now, here's your host, Lynn Carnes.

Lynn: 0:19

Welcome to Creative Spirits Unleashed Podcast. I'm Lynn Carnes. Your host. My guest for this episode is Mary Connaughty-Sullivan. This was an incredibly special episode unlike any I've done before. Mary is the author of a book titled nudges from the other side. It is the story that she shares from her journal entries, along with a lot of poetry, and her own thoughts of losing her son, Aaron, at the age of 20. It's not only a heartbreaking story, but it's also an uplifting story. You will understand that as you listen to this podcast. And as I start to tell you about listening to this podcast, I want to mention something that she describes also at the beginning, but Mary has a voice condition that makes it makes her voice not as smooth as mine, for example, are yours. And so in this particular conversation, you'll listen with both ears. But you'll be glad you are listening very carefully to what she has to say because Mary has a lot to say. Let me read you her bio. Here's what she says. When asked to provide biographical information. Mary's first sentence typically is I'm a mom. To say that Erin was and is important to her is an understatement. She considers him her foremost gift and trust that in providing his and her story to readers, they too will receive a gift. Mary grew up in a small Midwestern town and enjoyed an active outdoor life. During an era when life was slower and simpler. A self described lifelong learner Mary was encouraged and unrestricted by her parents to read anything and everything that interested her. Her love for words, language and stories persists to this day. After college, Mary spent 41 years in financial services where she held roles in sales, leadership and as an executive leading learning and development teams for Fortune 500 firms. She has a BA in psychology and has recently graduated with highest honors. From the funeral directors program at Fayetteville Technical Community College, Mary successfully completed all of her state board exams and became a licensed North Carolina funeral director in September of 2023. Mary lives on a small farm in North Carolina with her husband and their three horses, three dogs and three cats. In her spare time, Mary enjoys reading, gardening, waterskiing, sketching, writing, and horseback riding. I hope you enjoy this podcast with Mary CONADI. Sullivan. Mary, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. I'm so glad you're here. I I feel like the way that we started this conversation around the podcast is fitting for what I believe our topic today is going to be which is your book, not just from the other side. It's also though, really, I think I'm sensing that the theme of that well, for not sensing that the theme of that book, the theme of that book now, just from the other side is really about noticing the synchronicities and things that are happening in life that we often let go by as if it's no big deal. Are we right off to be in a coincidence? And you happen to reach out to me about doing this podcast. Just as I had the question, I wonder who I'm going to have on my next podcast as these other three guests are not ready yet. So my question is, we, we share a background in banking, we worked at the same bank, I remember where everything sort of had to be proven and concrete and tangible we both come from that world. What has it taken for you to begin to notice the unseen

Mary: 4:25

Well, thank you I love you know, we even begin I do want to share with your listeners that I have a lot of Wake Up Calls and a lot of them have happened fairly early in life. One of which actually happened to at the institution that you and I both worked out we didn't know each other better than him to know each other but both years have we worked there. Yeah. But um, I was running parentage wholesaling. group, I had a large group of people that work for me. And a lot of our work was done. And one day, I was actually interviewing somebody over the phone. And I noticed that my voice began to break. And what was that? Who did that? I'm not nervous, I know this person, I want this person to come work for me, what is going on. And so often, I thought, you know, I've heard that's all it is. And then a few days later, it happened again. And then it can began happening more and more. And I literally remember the very last position I ever had, where my voice splits fluid, like yours and 99.9% of the people in the world. And I learned that I had some rare neurological disorder that affected my vocal cords, I have perfectly healthy vocal cords. But there's something in my brain signaling now that open a chat the way you words, almost everyone else in the world does. And so you want to talk about below, and learning begin to learn that I better wake up and become aware of some unseen things around me, listening to the universe, lean into my difficulties. And I will tell you that I will talk to round for years with this boy, his condition, feeling less than everyone else, and not speaking up when I should have. And yeah, you know, these great people that I've worked with, for so believed in me, kept me going. But I think, you know, looking back on it, I wasted worrying. And now I'm at a spot in life. I'm retired now, which gave me the space to write this book that I wrote. But all of a sudden, I'm in this headspace, where I've got more time to listen to the unseen. And all of a sudden, I'm like, You know what happened anyway, I don't even you know, almost very well known has said to me, you know, once I get used to the cadence of your voice, I can understand everything that you're saying, right? I spend my sweet to her husband says, I don't even hear that anymore. You know, so, there you go, I wasted a lot of time worrying about something that I should have just had, look, this is it. This is what I've got. Everybody's got something they're dragging around with them. And so move on. And you know, we're any wasting time.

Lynn: 8:07

Well, you know, what I find really impressive is that you said earlier, I didn't speak up, or I felt less than, and, as you know, in the world that we came from, and it's not just at that organization, but many organizations, helping people, especially women find their voice is a thing. Because there's almost an a culture of we only want to hear your voice. If your voice supports my ego or my plan or my way of doing things. And I think of the many ways that it those insecurities, because that's all that is a deep insecurities are interference to getting really good work done. And so I can imagine how difficult it was in that kind of environment. And it sounds like you had a really supportive boss, though, to physically lose your voice, not metaphorically loosen and still come through the other side? What did you what kind of strength? Did you have to find inside of yourself to be able to do that?

Mary: 9:25

Well, I didn't. And so, you know, I will share with you that there were many times when I was literally in a big boardroom with all the executives that were my internal clients or man, the champion development group for the banks, private bank. And so I was responsible for training for 1000 people, my team and I, and I was expected in post work meetings. And I can remember many times sitting there thinking I don't think that's right. Or I have a different idea. But it was so intimidating. Being in that, you know, 30 or New York in a Walnut Ridge room in a leather chair with a microphone in front of me. I literally, like Roseanne from Sam. Deanna. If it were to reverse the old Saturday Night Live skit where she little girl in this gigantic chair, yes. Watch run out of room. So, you know, sometimes I didn't get over it, quite frankly. And that's where my missed opportunities. And I think if we could chart my trajectory, yeah, I did. Well, I ended up in tech enough. Um, he Chris money. It gave me freedom to do and explore a lot of other things later on in life and in even the moment, but I think I missed a lot of opportunities. Where those would have taken me I don't know, maybe it would have been, you know, bitch son wields executive woman that squashes everyone else? I don't really know, I don't think I wouldn't be, I don't think I would have made sure to what I always believed is that I needed to be a servant leader and take care of the people on my team. Because by doing that, I knew they would take care of me. Yeah, but the long story short is sometimes I did find my voice. And a lot of times it did. But I felt really, really comfortable. Leading my team. And I felt really comfortable, surround myself with good people. And date, if I made a mistake and brought someone on, that wasn't working out. And in that way, that team was what us to sort of, you know, the works Super Bowl, your menu button, I can remember the executive office, to Hank, half the time. walking up to me in a different poker gym, where I was leading meeting, we were creating an executive program. And I just remember walking up during the break and putting some arms and shoulders and saying, you know, I think we have the best training programs on the street. And that's really pretty darn good. I think those sorts of moments in my team put the wind in my feels that when I did for the the Tahoe, Jerome's, I was able to go, Alright, I'm a little bit humiliated and ashamed of myself right now. But if I don't myself up and move on, there isn't going to be anybody else magically swooping in to do that in this world.

Lynn: 12:52

Again, you it sounds like you had an amazing team. And I love hearing stories about people believing in each other in an environment that is really can be cutthroat. Like you said I could have become a bitch on wheels executive. And that was an environment where there were bitch on wheels. I think I was wondering. Like that, you know, I was, I had a podcast, actually my last podcast, Julie Ripley talked about two by four people. Meaning that they kind of hit people over the head with the two before and I think I was one of those four people, too. And yet, this is the, to me, this is sort of the topic that I'm finding very interesting is finding those moments and those Wake Up Calls. And yes, we have our missed opportunities. We all have those. We all have. But it's those that actually end up pointing us to this, what's at stake, to not miss other opportunities? You know, but I think this is what we're about. And it seems to me like you have a ton of resilience. And you know, that in and of itself, your story of your voice would be really book worthy. But that's not the book you ended up writing. You had another challenge that none of us want to have to bring on a reason to write a book, which I have read cover to cover. I've read different parts more than once. I'll read it again, because of the kind of book it is. But could you just say a little bit about what made you choose to write the story of losing your son when he was just 20 years old? Right,

Mary: 14:44

right. Yeah, the way that this began is obviously with a tragedy. And in the beginning of the book, I give readers a real honest window into that day, what happened? You know what we think when on what we know and some things we're never going to know it we to reach the other side. But um, you know, I have after I lost my son, obviously I was utterly shattered. There are any words for describing what that feels like because it's, it's out of the natural order. I had lost uncle's, I had already lost my dad, and all of that, although I didn't like it so didn't appreciate it felt very it was the natural order of the way things go. But to lose someone who is 31 years younger than myself, and who is my only child in my heart. That was fear theory theory Onyx did. And I just literally felt like I was falling into an abyss, and there was no put a hold, I just kept falling and falling and falling. And I would go through the motions after the funeral of you know, I think thank you notes. And I remember my mother one day, to me, I have a writing those notes just don't do that. If you feel like I said, No, I have to do it. You know, so there's this type A, me still doing what I needed to do. And so I was going through the motions, but I honestly didn't want to do anything. And then there were people, well intentioned people saying, you know, let's go to this grief group, I'll take you or you need to go see how much it hurts to hurt, you need to go to counseling, or you need to, you need to you need to that's like happy. And I felt like you know what, I don't need to do any of that. And I don't want to do any bad. I just literally focused on taking one breath at a time, during the days. And there were these these little voices or synchronous things that would happen. That would just kind of give me strength too. You know, take another breath or one more. Another. Mm hmm. And one day I my phone rang, I was up in my office. And I really wasn't expected to go right back to work. But yeah, there was this expectation to come right back to work, because I was able, because this, as you know, is a fast paced environment that we used to work in an array. And it was that executive, my internal client and falling behind this big enterprise, this new door instead of happy to a kid. And I said, you know, I'm really not doing very well. And I said, I just I don't I don't know what to do nothing. There's nothing that resonates with me right now. And he said, listen, he said, You do what you need to do. Work if you feel like working. Don't work if you don't feel like working. And I can even remember in that poem piece, or to hear him say that they can pull on ethnics, it is the homework if you don't want to work. That's actually right. Right, or take as much time as you need. No one says that there's certain amounts of days you're allotted in bereavement. But you know, I think that this was such a tragedy that people could imagine what if that had been me. And all of a sudden, they weren't upgraded by the employee manual anymore. And they were creating promo. And that took a while hold with me. And I remember glancing over at my bookshelf, and an empty chair at all. And I've always enjoyed writing. I've always enjoyed reading poets, learning, but I picked up that old journal, that old blank journal and thought, You know what, I'm just gonna start writing. And I began writing about those angels. What's his thing that has suddenly allowed me to take a breath and feel maybe a pinpoint of light and harmonize a hole? And I began writing about the way that I felt. But maybe most importantly, I began writing down instances of where I was experiencing what I thought were very The old era me know that had not gone up. He was skinny. But I am alive. And I'm well, and I heard about you, I love you. I'm still here. And it was one of the most mind bending instances, and happened over and over and over, it still happens. And I'm biggest age, which is the name of the book, nudge, it's probably how I began third of my bloggie stuff and talking about even some instances that have happened recently sharing those with people. You know, there's the manuscript is now written. And it's published, and I'm adding on to the end of my Word document. But I have been out there for the world to see. But, you know, you asked what made you write the books, or along your journey, I literally wrote in the journal, um, someday I need to publish this, and give this to others as a way it helped them find a peace, the know, hope and comfort was where it all began.

Lynn: 21:21

Something you said at the beginning that, that I felt, as you were just at the beginning, is isn't it? Funny how the world goes on when our world stops? Yeah. And you look around, and it's like, well, all your co workers were still working, you had a great client to say, take your time, as opposed to the usual message, which I often heard, I'm not sure they ever actually said this, but I often heard is, look, if you can't do it, we'll find somebody who will. Yeah, yeah. And, but but the, the thing that struck me is in the middle of that you found a way to take a breath, one at a time, take a step one at a time, somehow just keep putting one foot in front of the other, when your world stopped, and the rest of the world went on.

Mary: 22:21

Yeah, I literally remember looking out the window, and this thing, and there would be you know, blooms peach tree out my window. And I'm like, What in the world is that happening? When I'm in utter misery. And I just know I'm throwing off all this misery to anyone and everyone orbit. And I in some strange ways, I guess. I sort of like, I wonder why I didn't stop access because they hadn't devastating to me. And then literally in my own orbit, and I write about this a little bit in the book, I was in taking my loved ones around me. My my son's DevArt, who lived with us after her after he passed, literally curled up with a lesion on the bridge of her nose. Horses got an upper respiratory ailments and you know, they have that hope seeing is the reverse. And there's a reason for that 99% of the time, is a really healthy and when they're not really Nana. And so I just one of my cats turned up with a major major kidney infection and ended up having to be euthanized. And so I was impacting people in my orbit. And what was so strange as yet everything marched on. And the people that were outside my immediate orbit, were fine. They were laughing, they were going to dinner, they were making money, they were doing their work, and everything was continuing, hence it is but I was shattered. And another thing that was very poignant for me is there were those people in my life that just knew were really going to come through for me. They were going to be their therapists say the right things. They will lift me up and somehow magically, I was going to be alright. And guess what? Barely one of those people that was on that list in barely one of them came through. Some of them didn't even show up the funeral. And some of them said things like, well, you're it's gotta be rough losing. But I think of be even more suited to your spouse. Like what a stupid thing to say. And then stranger out of the blue would come through. And just give me, you know, five words that I could play into that day that lifted my spirit allowed me to breathe allows me to put one foot in front of another. Well, you never know. So what?

Lynn: 25:24

What would that stranger say that lifted you? Because I'm, I'm sitting here listening with both ears, because I've been through a lot of grief. And I've shared grief with friends. And I've always wondered why can I do this any better than I do? I'd like a better playbook, if you will. Yeah. To be the good friend.

Mary: 25:41

Yes. Right. That's, it's a really good question, man. And I don't actually think there is a good playbook. I think the only playbook is to operate properly. And if you have no words, you can look that person up on it, say, I just have no words, but I'm here with you. If you do have something that comes in through your, through your soul, or through that, you know, channel that we've all got, but we've often unlearn how to use, and then go ahead and say it even feels weird and awkward. And you can practice it with, you know, I don't even know where this is coming from. But I'm just having this urge to say this to you. Forgive me if it's not, right, but I have to tell you, I think just operating from the head that real people and their real heart level is the best thing that we can do. Because, you know, we look at the Hallmark greeting cards, and a lot of them are really great, really nice. But you just know where her son is. And so I say, listen, be bigger, and just be honest, and let whatever messages that are coming in to you to through and give them a gift.

Lynn: 27:05

So, you know, as I'm hearing you say that what's coming to me is, it feels very vulnerable sometimes to open our heart. And yet, it also I'm hearing you say is that's where the message will come through. If it and, and it actually in a way, is a form of I don't want to use the word protection. But if you can trust that your heart will hear then you can be there in the way you intend to for someone. Yeah.

Mary: 27:39

Even when we've got really itches, people, I think we cut the ad is of I can tell you, I respect you. And maybe he can help you. And so this is a tough passage, but I have to share this with you doing if you no poor really, you it's a gift. Yeah, the day, it might not be like it right now I'm at my peak, like I just punched you right in the gut. But I just want you to know, that we're on coming from is a place of care of honesty, and wanting what's best for you. And I honestly feel like if we really operate at that level, um, you know, we're going to be in a good place. And, and I mean, that's what pastors are trained to do. And I wish we have more negotiation going on world today purposes. But the thing is, that rarely works, you know, overpowered somebody that only works temporarily. It doesn't change their hearts, it doesn't, you know, for operating model. And so if we really want change in the world, if we really want someone, I think the only way is through the heart and through authenticity, and being vulnerable ourselves out there.

Lynn: 29:09

You know, it's it, he brought up the idea of ambassadors, and you know, fighting and so forth. And I think about all the different ways, if you just look across the landscape of our country in our world of people trying to fight to get their power back. And just that Senate says it's not going to work because you're fighting, and you're trying to get something back that you never had. Because, you know, power. Power is something that we have to share. And if you keep playing the LeapFrog game of I'm gonna get my power back and then you're gonna get your power back and then I'm gonna get my power back. It's just the endless it's the endless wars. And somehow it feels like a lot of people put the word justice on it, and it it's just as maybe at a moment in time, but it doesn't work long term. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. So that's incredibly insightful. I'm incredibly insightful. And I'm thinking to the idea of, again, what it takes to open the heart? And how, how do you practice keeping your heart open when it felt so broken?

Mary: 30:18

Yeah, you know, I don't think that there was a practice at all. In the beginning, it was that feeling of almost like being Alice in Wonderland and never knowing when you're gonna land where you're gonna land, but just next to her. And so all I did was find a few little lights. And I was, I don't even know how I was looking them. But it's almost as if you're being hated. And all of a sudden, the bench is open, and there's a breath of air that you can take the house. Without it, you know, I came to live in those early dark days. You know, nowadays, 13 years, I've had the benefit of and I would say, you know, it's the practices that we weave into our lives that make us a little bit better of the world and a little bit better of a person for others, and a little bit easier of a jury, our own selves. And those are things like I read, I'm a voracious reader. And I often show movies, but what I never do is I never ever filled my mind with things that, that that aren't at a time. So you're gonna catch me watching, you know, like, around Halloween in particular, there's a lot of, you know, movie trailers for really awful things, you know, killing people and terrify people. Meaning, like, I just don't take part in things that aren't edifying. Because I think it's always our I think it's the lazy, old. And like I heard on the news last night, Mark Zuckerberg was testifying. And he said, Well, you know, there's no, no actual evidence that social media really causes people to appeal bullied, and to get to a point of despair, where they take their own lives. But then a few minutes later, he turned around and apologized and said, you know, we're putting things in place. And so, you know, that's like talking about sides of your mouth. Yes. He's on a tight rope. The name of your book, yeah. Or subtitle of your book. But but the fact of the matter is, is that deep down, he absolutely knows that we are impressionable beings. And so I say, look to the light and be the light in the world. And don't don't taste darkness. Don't don't bother with it. I mean, I don't know why Tinder STR upon. But if it is, okay, but dabble instead of immerse if you have to, and focus on the things that are true and and right, but are F hunting, because only then can we bring about change in our own lives, and that can ripple out to those around us and ultimately, the world.

Lynn: 33:45

So accurate. And interestingly, I just realized, as you were talking about Zuckerberg and I saw his apology yesterday, and I saw and not only him but the people who are grilling and we're also talking out of both sides of their mouth. Double Double tonguing is what I often have heard it called the interesting thing, I was just coming back from a ski vacation and I had a private ski lesson who the instructor the next day was going to be working with a Facebook muckety muck. It wasn't Mark Zuckerberg, but he wouldn't tell me who. But it was one of the top I say top five in the organization. And he said guess what, guess who doesn't have Facebook? The top executives, kids, right. Now, is that not the evidence we need? Yeah. I mean, he's not letting his children have the product that they sell. I've often said You know, if you're going to be in sales, you better eat your own dog food.

Mary: 34:42

And really eat your own

Lynn: 34:46

whatever, you know, whatever it is that you're providing, if you're not going to provide it for yourself, you know, it's been one of my things and you know, because I do a lot of coaching and I asked people to do things like journal and meditate and all kinds Have practices. I have many, many, many. But nothing. I've never asked anybody to do something that I hadn't tried out myself first. Because it's sort of like I can't in good conscience ask you to do something that I haven't put myself through. Absolutely. Especially since a lot of Stefan's people to do they do feel like they've been put through something. It's like, oh, this is hard. It's like, Yeah, I know. But you can't do it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. So and yet, of course, I'm on Facebook, you're on Facebook, you have a Facebook page for your, for your book. But what I have noticed is I have a really high quality feed, I do not get any of the political junk. I get ads sometimes that I don't want, then I'll realize it's because I stopped on something. Somebody had a pretty picture. And I'm like, oh, now I'm gonna see this happened recently, pillow ads, I saw a pretty pillow. And next thing I know, everybody's trying to sell me pillows just because I stopped right most just momentarily on a picture. Yeah. But for the most part, I have a pretty what I'd call a pretty clean, pretty uplifting feed. And I enjoy it, you know, when I get to stay in touch with friends that way, if it's positive, but like you've talked about is sort of that philosophy of garbage in garbage out?

Mary: 36:11

Well, that's right. And we can check off what we don't like. And we can say, you know, I'm I'm unfriending you or I'm deleting the post. And you know, now that I'm promoting the book a lot on social media. Every couple weeks, I will get someone posing at some army. Oh, hey, I love your picture. And you seem so nice. But you want to leave a friend? And I'm like, Are you not reading that? We're talking about me losing my and throughout the book, you know, talking about grief, 10? stuff? And obviously, it's a pay cut. So

Lynn: 36:53

it's not even a person? I think it's a bot, I think I think those are robots.

Mary: 36:58

Yeah, so the good news is, we have the ability to filter things. And sometimes things get in or unintended, and you just have to work your way out of that. But that's kind of what I was talking about a minute ago, is be selective in your bond grade. In your activities, be selective, and people that you surround yourself with, and then help the ones you know, if they want it, then you don't need and, and so I just hit Filter, Filter Filter is a good way to go about your day. And I agree with you, just this week. Or week, can we both get up and we spend one to two, I spent one hour you spend a little longer than I do but 18 in the morning, and it's caring for the animals, doing my workout and doing what I set, or what I say is I think my attention for the day. I have one of those monkey minds. And so I have a really hard time next thing, but I believe in it. And the way that I skirt into it is I will be there in a meditative pose. And think about the words that I'm setting for the day. And often your words like joy and peace and awareness, money, you know, things like that. And all this does not go on and on. But I do that. And then another thing that I love to do is my skirt gratitude journal, it's in my mind, I don't write it down. But I really love to begin the day, thinking about three things that really great yesterday. And I can tell you that I never stopped three that even I think a really shitty day, I can find I have a dozen or more things that I'm actually grateful for. And there are some brands and plants that tells us when we operate from that form of what was good, what was right. What are my intentions for today, it gives our brain because the booze is just getting of a more, or a glass of orange juice or you know your big vitamin for the day. And it's just a good way to start things out.

Lynn: 39:29

I can't tell you how many times I've had people do some form of a gratitude exercise. And it's literally a pivot point in their lives. Whether it's a big one where I have them, you know, write 100 things they're grateful for. And they look at me like 100 And you know, they get started and find out it's actually not as hard as they think it's gonna be or if it's a practice regularly, like you said just three things which we never stop it three. Because once you sort of exercise that muscle of seeing what's there And what you have an offering your gratitude for it, it feels good. And you want to do more of it.

Mary: 40:06

Yeah, yeah. No, no, not the thing that comes to mind is, if you've got someone that you like your ability, your and for me, now that my husband and I are both your herd, we're like little relief together all day every day. But we give each other space and when I'm feeling grouchy which I can do that, I mean, I, you know, I'd pay you to call you to coordinate sunshiny roses. The truth is, you know, sometimes I just, maybe I did, well, or, you know, maybe something didn't go my way, the way. And what I really like to do is, I'll root for a while, but I like to go to him and say, Hey, I don't want to mess you up. I was grouchy this morning, there's a reason behind it. And you really didn't have anything to do with it. Or if you didn't, I'll say, you know, I just want to be honest with you that when this happened, this is where you're, and it's really nice. I'm coming out with them, because it's where it's most likely nominee. You just need to pick him around. And he's really good about just saying, you know, okay, I noticed that and I was a little mad at you, or, Hey, I appreciate that. And thank you, and I think you're great. Or, you know, what, for me just off someone else that's willing to be a dartboard for a little while, can be lifting, and allow you to just move beyond whatever. Yeah.

Lynn: 41:48

Well talk about a transition, the retirement transition, where two people who've had busy lives, and, you know, really enjoyed connecting or connecting more passing in the night, if you will, because my husband and I were the same way. We both used to travel a lot. And now we're together a lot. And that's a big transition when you're with your spouse or anybody all the time. You're gonna have your moments. Yeah,

Mary: 42:12

yeah. Yes, then after I love financial services, I'm very lucky to be able to do it, when I was up on sort of really orchestrated my own role of elimination, I got a great market edge. And he did me really great. It was not the institution at even a hypo, was another one. But I knew the minute that I told my husband, that, you know, my role has been eliminated. And I've done that he would take maybe less than five minutes to say, why don't you come into our business work with me? And in about, you know, three minutes he did, and I said, I knew you're gonna ask me to do that. And I need a couple weeks to sort of turn it loose hands, but I think I'll tell you that, and we own our own home anti symmetry, you know, talk about leaning into your problems. We got that in a minute. But I was work and we were just opening brand new funeral home, and he had a public armature hadn't figured out, you know, like, where things were gonna go, or who was gonna go where and so I got to do all of that I did our marketing. And then little by little his score began coming in there per day, because we wound up getting really busy. That led me to getting my funeral directors, they said such 180 degree. But it was it was just an amazing experience. But not only do that, who live with this, man. Now, I worked with him every day. And you and I both decided he was gonna be box. So take an executive who has been 41 years and past, you know, not just fortune 500 companies not talking the top. person in an environment with only five or six employees, where she is listened to her husband beat her boss. And so, boy talk about another life lesson. Now.

Lynn: 44:25

And I'm sorry, but also in a business. That is definitely a very difficult business because your business is ushering people through the loss of a loved one. Yeah, yeah. That's a tough one. Yeah,

Mary: 44:39

yeah. And, you know, one, sorry about the dogs.

Lynn: 44:43

I'm not hearing

Mary: 44:46

the it's not for everyone. Absolutely not. But we actually loved it. And so it's an honor really and a hedge out Hit up people. And one of the things that I always did is, when you have someone, and they, they lost one, you know, we know about it. And when you know what time there is, oftentimes we do get information about it, but we don't get a lot. And so we don't really know who we're gonna be talking with what your god what the circumstances were. But that was time and I love to clean it to my intuition. And I was you to ours, options, you know, what? real soft. Or maybe I would say I'm feeling why we needed massage music or tribal or whatever. And it was so amazing that very often people would walk in, or it was a 50 Some people would walk in, I knew I was gonna work with you. Because when I'm done our songs thing, or our artists thing about the half a sphere that you've created in here. And so you know, yeah, and it's, it's a lesson in leading into what your whispers I call my whispers whispers with us, rather than being up in our heads. And I need this real quick here to eat this folder, I need that folder I need that. You know, and the hills can do the grass can people and leaders can do the exact same thing. Just take a minute and just lean in Be quiet, you never know what's going to come up and nine times out of 10, whatever does is going to be right even the message of this, you need to run from this deal. You need to remove this person or that circumstance or whatever, nine times or more is going to be right.

Lynn: 46:55

That's a good, that's a good message for sure is listening to the whispers and you talked about the songs. You had at least one story maybe more in your book about certain songs coming on. That could only have been a message from Aaron. Yeah, yeah. Do you have a story you'd like to tell about?

Mary: 47:16

One right away? Um, I do like heavy, or class rock and a little bit of the battle. But I never listened to as he was born. I like his white blot. Yeah, like cool. But his music just wasn't anything that I heard about. And so you know, maybe it was a year or months, or Aaron asked, you know, there are still lots of days more gloomy, very hurts. And I remember I was driving long, and back, see him a lot in my mind air. You know, I really, really missed a huge day. And all of a sudden, I'm listening classic rock. And it must have been an odd hour, because what I noticed is only late at night, do they delve into the heavy stuff? Because otherwise, you know, it's gonna be something nice that any of us know. And, you know, we can say a lot. Oh, awesome. It was on. And song is mama. Wow, it was just like blown away. Because at that time, and I talked a little bit about this in that in the book is I actually had this inane belief that I could somehow bring Aaron back. Like, literally bring him back and talk about it just because your sister ash heard of my brain over here, you know, I left and then there's this right brain idea that, Oh, I could get him back.

Lynn: 49:03

Well, you brought him here the first time. So surely I could do it again, right?

Mary: 49:08

Or another and, you know, for me to articulate what that really meant me. But I sure it was doing my darndest. And I'm grateful that I've journaled even you know, Sarah, not school is the things that I was thinking about. Because otherwise I really would not have remembered him at all. In fact, when I was writing the book, I would come across things and go, wouldn't have ever remembered that story. And I wrote that down because that really did happen by George and I'm glad she brought that reminder that it wasn't just wow, that we had shinies but yeah, a lot of us it hidden away and let me know that. Yeah. That couldn't have been enough. And there was one just the other day that I'd love to share. here. Yeah. My husband and I, his name's Dean on and I love to watch Jeopardy nights.

Lynn: 50:09

I do. I love Jeopardy.

Mary: 50:12

dearly. I really don't like 99% of our vision. It's my cats really about what I watch and what I imbibed minutes. It's gonna watch Jeopardy and he said, it just arena it's too much for me it's going to help for

Lynn: 50:33

telling you that happens exactly at my house. We have a hot tub, and my husband doesn't want to watch Jeopardy. So he's like, I'm gonna go to the hot tub while you watch Jeopardy. Okay, yeah,

Mary: 50:41

exactly. So about 40 minutes later, I realized that he had come in so I and I said, are you alright? The punters got in the beginning are like, Oh, by now. And he said, You know, I am alright. I'm just being out here looking at ours. And I was talking with Aaron and mom. And and his mom's gone. And I said, Well, what specifically we were talking about. And he said, You know, I just think I'd really love to hear from them. And they always talk to you, but I'd really like him to talk to me. And I said, Well, just watch and be open. And that's really nice. I think that you're doing that. And I said, I'm gonna go to bed and read now. And he said, All right, I'll be in in a minute. Well, human element, and he was like, you know, yet and I don't feel like reading. I'm gonna go watch one of our programs in the living room while you read. I said, All right. That was great. I resumed reading my book. Not two minutes late. You're awesome. Volume on the TV is loud, that anyone mile away should have been able to hear it. Wow. And I hear one sentence at once. Hence, only and it was little Aaron will not stop.

Lynn: 52:12

Why a TV said that

Mary: 52:14

the TV bombed out little Aaron will not stop talking. Now remember, my husband had just said Aaron. Want me to be? And I'm yelling from bedroom. Dan. Dan, come here. Come here. I don't know why I didn't get up. And he goes, I'm sorry, Mayor. I wasn't even holding controller. I don't know why you went up like that. I said, Come here right now. Like I'm talking Nice. Didn't you hear what was? And he said no. And I told him, he goes all night. And I'm like, Yeah, that was for you. You know how? I mean? How could you expect anything any greater than to be shouted a hat? Yeah. Right. Alright, sorry about that. I was asked a couple weeks ago. And the guy said to me, you know, if your dog's bark, nice, don't worry about it. Because listeners see that pain like that it makes everything I'm like, Okay.

Lynn: 53:36

Well, and it does happen, my dog I have. When we built our house, we had the original house, which we now call our guest house and then we built a house of a full house to go with it. My dog is in the other house, because she's an 18 month old puppy. And if she's not with me, she's going to scream and cry and beg to be with me. And if she is with me, sometimes it's just too hard to hold a good long conversation without some kind of interruption. You know, eating a roll of toilet paper. The last thing she took down was my iPod or my air air pods. She ate the case. But she shopped on the case for that just having a puppy so yeah, but this is real life so and everybody that has dogs completely understand. But what a story I can't believe in that short amount of time that showed up on his show that loud enough for you to hear. Because I'm guessing if y'all are like we are and I sometimes go read while he's watching TV or vice versa, we try to you know, we try to be respectful of the volume.

Mary: 54:42

Right? Right. And that was what I'm talking about. He's like, number one if the controller wasn't even in my mind, to I'm sorry, I'm just everything. The volume down and I'm like, That's not you hear that?

Lynn: 55:00

Yeah, you know, I actually keep a note on my phone, I call it God winks. And on our podcast, my podcast with Anna 20, who is a phenomenal animal communicator, and has really taught me a lot about learning how to pay attention to signals. And recognizing the things that we thought were not anything are actually signals. We talked about, she calls them God links as well, we, I have a note in my phone that I keep of these different moments so that I don't lose track. Because unlike you, if you journal, your stories, first of all, your book would be very different, because you wouldn't have had those journal entries to include in your book. But more importantly, you wouldn't have had the track record or the history because those are like drips in a way. And one of the analogies I often use about things we think of are small is like, well, you think a drip of water is small, but put a bucket under the faucet leave, and come back in a couple hours and you will have a gallon of water. Right? All right. And it looks like it's nothing because it was one drip at a time. But in a way, your story. Because you captured it makes me feel like you chose to have not just a gallon of water, but like a whole, like memories of your son.

Mary: 56:16

Yeah, yeah. Um, and I'm, like I said, I'm glad I wrote down. And I'm glad that I was glad to do the journaling, which really made made me lean into the journey. And, you know, I recently wrote, I think it's on on Facebook page, that Oh, my people want to curl up in ball. And a lot of people do want to go to the group group, do who wants to go. And I don't stay, do what feels right to you. If you're going to have any time in your life, that anyone else is going to give you a license to do it in a situation where you are really, you know, bereaved, to the ultimate extent. And for me, I guess it just meant leaning into the journey. Because I guess I had no I had to explore it. I didn't want to run from it. It didn't feel right for me yet. So ultimately, what became a bit is what I consider to be mine and Aaron's gift to others to give them that comfort, that hope and that peace. Because I've had people literally from the United Kingdom, Africa, New Zealand and all over the US to be, you know, but I laughs Israel, and I have decided I'm making some live changes, and 99% of them have absolutely nothing to do with cleaning up. Now I have people say, I'm going to be more vulnerable, and less JEDEC I'm gonna change my rear and do something I've always wanted to do. Now, did I give that specific advice? No. But within the books covers my hyper it's the best experiences and collection of beautiful words that came to me in my journey at the Wrights worst park, or light for others journeys. And that's the best that I have ever, or work. That

Lynn: 58:47

is the that is truly the gift of your work. I was gonna ask you that very question. How has it How have you known about ways it has impacted others because I read it and set it was such a it is such a vulnerable, hopeful piece. And I believe that's the part that a lot of people might miss. And it actually at first I was a little nervous to read your book. Because I knew it was going to be sad. And I cry when I read sad things and it's like Okay, I gotta pick times when I can cry. But But I really what really struck me was your willingness to enter the journey. Warts and all knowing that it was not there was no there was no rainbows and butterflies here. But you're you were choosing to enter it either way and with and with an open heart and I believe that your story has to have touched a lot of people.

Mary: 59:46

Yeah, you know, really hope it will continue to do that. And that as more people learn about it, I've been told that people have gifted people I'm

Lynn: 1:00:00

sure

Mary: 1:00:01

and in fact, I've been asked, you know, how do I know when it's right to give it to them? And my answer is, there's no way for you to know. But what there is a way for you to do is to only good intention, I know you talk a lot about good attention is going ahead and gifted and say, Read this. If and when you feel that open it up, because it may just have your attorney midpines comfort and peace. And that way, you're allowing the, the recipient to make those decisions. And you're just giving prominence. Right. And I've had books that have sat on for many years, and all sudden, I went to read them. Recently, someone gifted me a book. And I was a little disappointed, because I've read it before, but I committed charset, but I'm gonna look at it again. I opened it up. And man, that book transported me and it was the right thing. And so just, you know, include that little message This is for if and when

Lynn: 1:01:17

you know a lot of the books that are on my bookshelf fit that exact category, sometimes I I'll go a few years before I read them, or I recall one in a particular case, very similar to yours, where I heard about this book on a podcast. And so I bought it, and I read it. And then I actually found it in my stack of books that I moved. I put some good readings and the place where my coaching clients come stay when they come to a retreat with me. And I looked down and I said, Oh my gosh, I had this book and had already read it. But the second rating was different than the first because we're change. Yes, yes. And so you're exactly right. I'm curious, do you have the book available for your people that come through your funeral home? Is it something that you offer? Yeah,

Mary: 1:02:07

to them? Yes. Hello, it is hoped there. And I've got some bookmarks that if people want to grab a bookmark and order the book, they can do that. But Dan, and I actually sold a home in June of last year. Oh, I have two friends and colleagues of mine that were both at the bank you and I worked at and the way the financial institution I most recently left. And they too decided that they wanted to get involved in this business then Boy, talk about the universe working out, fill up another list, the way that that have worked out but yes, they do have the book available there. And you know, if anyone feels loved to order it, they can do so. But there's

Lynn: 1:03:00

Yeah, well, that's very different. Especially if it's not yours. You know, it's not your your funeral home anymore. I hadn't I don't know how I missed that. But I didn't realize you all were no longer so you're truly fully retired now.

Mary: 1:03:13

Right? And so I spent Hearst nine no minutes, writing the book, learning about publishing, losing a publisher, and then getting it launched. And then after that working on my launch plan, because of course, there is no gal or guy that left corporate America that wouldn't have to pay him for right once it's out there now and I'm gonna get to you know, approach I'm working on a friend of mine. Yes, today is an aficionado of my book. And she's a great supporter. I said, Well, this isn't fun anymore. I'm just not going to do it. But I still feel like it's got a lot of runway to reach the heart. Mind. People read it. And so I'm still in their batting every single day.

Lynn: 1:04:11

Yeah, that's, this is the thing about writing a book. To me, the tightrope that we walk as authors who want to market and sell a book is how to reach the people we wrote it for, because we know it has something to offer them without getting caught up in the need to have book sales, right to think nobody wants to hear what we have to say those two things are like almost two ends of a continuum. And the tightrope is there are people that need your book, and your job is to make sure that they find your book because it has something to offer them. Yes,

Mary: 1:04:56

yes. Then, you know, there we go. Who is that? negative mind that I think we learn, I don't think we inch who our lives. His thing that negative mind chatter, but And you talk about this a little bit in your book, I did learn from others that when they say, Well, your drawing is bad, or they laugh at you, or something you did, then all sudden, we learn how the embarrass, and in authentic and all of this stuff. And all of a sudden, we're so full of garbage all over us that it's fine, that that real golden nugget that is that we possessed when we came into this world, it is there. But we have to unlearn a lot of the things that we learned in order to get back at it. And we can keep the beautiful things that we've learned. But just kind of unlearning those negative voices. And I remove one of those obstacles, almost right out of the gates with the book because I too was like, I feel if when I'm promoting this book that people are gonna think it's just, you know, money, money, money. And so I said, Well, I'm just gonna give away all the proceeds. Because I can think of a lot of worthy charities that will be really happy to have money from me and Aaron. And, you know, I did my vision board and the highest my intention for you know, how this was gonna go. And I, I, I'm gonna have fun with it. I'm going to go with an open hand and open and an open mind. And so if I had to learn how to be alright, with rejection, is that does happen. Uh huh. But there's pure that rejected than say, thank you. And so when it's a rejection, I just, you know, sweep it away and say not now. Because I know you're probably familiar with the disk model. So I'm raging D, everything is below the line. Other than T and so no means maybe. Me. And yeah, yes. Right. Yeah.

Lynn: 1:07:27

It's I love I was just talking to somebody the other day about the disc model. I really do like the disc model. And you should, just for those listening who don't know, at least give the four letter, you know, what the four letters of the disc mean, so people can get a feel like it's not Myers Briggs. It's a different way of assessing our personalities. But the D stands for a dominant personality fabric. Yes, correct. And remind me what the I Am.

Mary: 1:07:52

I don't remember what the word for it is right now. But it's like, the golden retriever person who's like, I love everyone, you know, in an inside smile, it would be the yellow. Yeah. You know, people oriented. And then the S is people oriented, but they're the sensitive one that they would never dream for hurting your feelings. And they might tell you one thing to tell me another thing and in there, they're both right. But they're 180 degrees opposite but they're doing it because they don't want to hurt your feelings. He is the really compassionate has, you know, the accountant who gets like every number, right? And every letter has to be right. And unless everything is right, we're not moving forward. Remember where we use the word we would go with 90% solutions so that that Dean has only pet it and she's my personal toad. Yeah. All around. They're like, I love this. Who wants down and I'm working him. Yeah,

Lynn: 1:09:01

well, that that I was a high D and a high i, i I've looked it up. Now. Its dominance influence. steadiness and conscientiousness are their words, and you did a beautiful job of describing them. And the thing about the way if you get a DISC profile is they do like a narrative. And it's like reading back your life. Like those things are so friggin accurate. It's like, Lynn does this and Lynn does that. It's like, how has somebody been over my shoulder and watching my work? Because this is freaky. It's that accurate? But yeah, having a plan, getting things done. It's interesting because I made a very deliberate choice. I looked at you know, how to do a book launch and you know, even a book tour and had the opportunity to withheld because I self published so I didn't have a publisher behind me. So you know, what would it look like to really get out and put this book out and I'm very interested in being on podcast but not interested in traveling to be on TV shows, even if it was to go to New York or whatever, because it's like, that is not I started looking at what my calendar would look like. And I was like, oh, no, that's not the life I want. Yeah, yeah, I don't want to be on airplanes, especially to have to do an entire day or two day trip or three minutes on TV. Because that's not where I am right now. And I'm not trying to sell that many books. I just want the right people to get it in their hands. And honestly, I don't think there's that many people. I mean, I'm sure there's some that are watching TV that need to have my book, but I'm better with corporate groups. And I have had a lot of people buy the book for whole teams. Yeah, it's like, that's the way it needs to go for me. Yeah, there you go. So, anyway, yeah. So back to your plan. So you did a vision board? Was it for this? Or was it for your life? What was the like, what was yours? For your vision

Mary: 1:10:46

is very, the book and I added something to it just this morning, and I would like to read it to you, if you don't mind, please. You know, it really keys in to where we began. And maybe a sort of good place, you know, to bring, bring our conversation now. And it is, with the power of the universe at our fingertips, let us move forward with courage and grace, knowing that we are supported by purposes, in and unseen, made this moment be called with blessings, miracles, and moments of profound connection. Did you write that? No, I did not know beautiful. That is somebody that gave me permission to do some extensive voting in my book. And it's a woman named Rosemary off. And she wrote the book, the eagle in the Rose, it's on the recommended list at the back. And I get an occasional newsletter from her. And, you know, I opened that up this morning. And I was like, well, well, well, doesn't that resonate. And so that right into the center of this vision board, but yeah, the vision board is really just for the book. So I've done my vision boards, and I do mini ones. This is my wishing, Vision box, your list, I love it. But in the air, I write things that are my attentions, and some of these old like, I'm looking at one from cheap house. And when you want, and one of the things I'm reading is that Santos retirement boom, we can check it out off the list, because you it's really neat to do things like that you can save a little pictures in there. I'm just a believer that if we do some thorough intentions, and back, watch the universe go to work, we might just be really delighted by what happens.

Lynn: 1:13:01

I believe that so incredibly, and have you know, I began running vision board workshops in 2016. And I now mostly don't run them for the public, I only run them. And when I say run them, I only include them when I'm doing usually a retreat with people. Because I like to wrap other things around, especially that word you use courage and grace. And I believe we are born with courage and that stuff. You talked about the negative chatter, the interference, the stuff that gets put on us. I think it hides our courage from us sometimes. And a lot of times people will say they want more confidence. And I say, Well, you have to start with courage. Because courage you have to act, not necessarily knowing the outcome. But you've got to move anyway, which to me is the epitome of your journey. You had no idea how you were going to move through this. But you know I am so I so believe that if we will give ourselves I know it doesn't have to be a vision board per se, that's a that's a form factor. But if we give ourselves the ability to create our lives, if we say to ourselves, I can set direction, I have the right to put down my intentions like you've put in your box about retirement or you know, I've even had a vision board thing happen where I got exactly the boat that was on the picture of the vision board. I have I from what I can tell everyone I've taken through the process finds that their vision comes out almost precisely as they expected and often sooner than they ever dreamed it could. And it's not because it's some kind of magic formula. It's that having that courage to ask and to believe and to listen and to notice the help. We're getting

Mary: 1:15:00

Yeah, you know, recently, people reach out to me all the time. And a lot of times, it's through social media, and maybe it's an I am or even maybe it's a response to something that I, and I've had people say, I love that you get those nudges. And that was just really visceral reminders that Aaron took around all of that, but you know, I lost him. And so it's been X number of months, three years. And when will I see the signs, and you can just almost peel PE, in their words. And what I always say is just, you know, what, just to ask, because I almost feel like they probably are already letting you know that they're there. But your mind might be saying, you know, I'm gonna let that be buried, or I'm just going to disk, that that's not really for me, or that doesn't mean anything, or being fantastical by thinking it just just be open. But moreover, ask because they can hear you. And I also believe we all have guides. On other side, you know, every major Jim has in some form, or fashion that believe, yeah, I was raised Catholic and all that I have a guardian angel. And as I'm delved into many other religions and looked at them, you know, cuz I'm a truth seeker. And I'd like to know things. I like to understand things, and I like to understand other people's perspectives. But I believe that we do have guardian angels or spirit guides. And so there's nothing wrong with communicating with them, or its staff feeling like this, or I sure could use your help with that. And then just perhaps with it, but being here to be open handed to because, you know, sometimes we don't get what we want. In an instance, sometimes we don't get what we think we want, because it isn't the right thing for us. So

Lynn: 1:17:16

yes. And, you know, sometimes you have it and don't even realize you have it. You know, that's there's so many ways, and I have no question about having guides, guardian angels, I have things happen, where it's like, something almost moved me out of the way of harm's way, at times or something along those lines. And, you know, I occasionally I've even felt like they were wrapping me in their arms, almost, I could almost feel the hug.

Mary: 1:17:47

Yeah, yeah. So I had a very visceral one years ago. And my husband never listens to this, but when I've never um, you know, there was something deep in my soul that this is really not the right one for you. But up here in my, I was like, Well, you know, he fits the picture her that Colin hit, and his words are told me that he's, you know, everything that I was looking for. But almost immediately, I began having these really weird nightmares when he was sleeping with me. And they continued throughout our marriage, and they were always these like, really awful looking beast. I remember the very first time that spent the night with him, and they wanted his dreams and waking up from it. 100% Knowing it emanated from him, not that it was like, satanic but that he was wrong. For me. There was a barrier that was, you know, attempting to beat that out, but I ignored it. And through art much has hurt 18 year marriage. This continued to happen. And on our 13th anniversary, we went to the mountains. Visiting a mutual friend of ours Kathy was mutual. Yeah.

Lynn: 1:19:23

Janine, she's, she's Kathy's been on this podcast? Yes.

Mary: 1:19:26

And so I was staying with a mutual friend Jeanine, who I write about Buck who is pulled over recently that I was staying with her. And that night I remember waking up from this dream where I was being like Indian in one of those real long walks. Dress in this India was like literally flying in the room right above my face. And when I woke up, I could still see what I I just opened my awareness, you know, coming into the present, and just being out breath waking my husband about and he's like, it's just a dream go back to sleep. Well, literally days later, I found out that he was involved in something that ultimately just finally broke our marriage. And later on in talking with someone and share with them, this woman said, that was your spirit guide. They have been trying to all these years, but you wouldn't listen.

Lynn: 1:20:41

Why what a wake up call? Yeah, yeah. Wow. Well, I mean, if there's anything that people should be taking away from this conversation, it is start paying attention to the things that you might be getting whispers like, listen for the whispers. Yeah, sort of what I'm picking up is, because, and note and notice the coincidences like don't just write them off. You know, not unlike your, you're reaching out for me, it was not a coincidence that you reached out to me at exactly the right moment. Yeah. For us to have this conversation.

Mary: 1:21:20

Yeah. And you know, what, when I really even thinking about Mom, it wasn't thinking, I wonder why she has reached out to me. It was just in the moment, I went, Oh, I have just been booked for one in March. And I kind of liked to do one a month. And I've done, you know, three or four others. And this opening in February, and you much said, Well, what about your thirst I just needed a lot and already very serendipitous, and everything. If I may just want to go back for a second. Yeah, I would imagine a lot of your listeners are corporate individuals, and they live in a very past he is very black. We're all that demands metrics, then it demands you know, proven performance. So are you aren't going to be around for a while. But what I will say is that what I've seen over the years is that these major corporations are more and more and more open to kind of tilting their head and going well, wait a minute, there is more limits than just the black, white. And I had some executive ed programs at Wharton at University of Pennsylvania, we would bring in some amazing speakers who like literally would have us lie on the floor, learning how to meditate and learn how to get out of our heads isn't into her hurts. The next day, you know, we might be talking about alpha for your portfolio, or, you know, creating, you know, a socially, that's legal. That's what I'm saying is, I think that these things live side by side. And in fact, if we open ourselves up to the hands in and lean a little bit more into our intuition or vulnerability and our authenticity, I think that can carry us to, you know, ledge that we haven't been able to jump up on previously with all our metrics. And, you know, our suits are cops for our big taps. And, you know,

Lynn: 1:23:42

you, I have found the same loosening of the grip, if you will, and my work over the years, because I still work with companies and people in the corporate world. And one of the things that I've many times asked my clients, whether it's in a retreat, or in one on one is, you know, how important are relationships, decisions and creativity to your success. And I've yet to meet somebody that didn't have all three of those things being well north of 50%. And relationships, good ones require connection and connection requires operating from the heart. You know, our decisions, we often want to be able to follow our gut, what you're talking about is a refined ability to follow your gut. Because if you're paying attention to the unseen in a way that's sort of calibrated to understand what's really there, you're not you don't have to worry about operating out of fear because you've calibrated your gut to be a good read, not a fearful read. And decisions. Almost all of us need good gut reactions for our decisions. And of course in creativity We need to be able to think of things that hadn't been thought of before and connect dots that hadn't been connected before. Right? Yeah. So, you know, you're you just you and I are kind of making the business case for opening our eyes to not just the left brain world, but the right brain world.

Mary: 1:25:19

Mm, yeah. Yeah. People know me, I think, which I think can be a very typical of job, people, unless you're doing what you love. And so that's when it becomes, wait a second, I'm in here, helping you doing you a major makeover. And first and foremost, it's really important operate from that, that space up, you know, eat oil, or a little differently earlier. But if you really don't believe in what you're saying, and what you're doing, I would suggest you begin exploring a way to get aligned with something where, you know, you've people like honored and really urge the body or someone to do whatever it is that you're selling, or offering or doing. And then go in with kind of an open feeling about it, which is, you know, look, if this is not aligned, or this isn't what you want. I'm good with that. In fact, here home, when we were doing free needs, which is arranging your end of life services and arrangements before you ever need them, which I highly recommend everyone do. Because you're thinking you're not operating on the motion where a provider can take advantage of view, which is what we hated when we went into the business, because we knew what it was like to be on the other side of the desk, and to be emotionally vulnerable. And I'm not saying anyone took advantage of us, but we do know that it's rampant in a lot of industries. But to go into the half, you know, kind of conversation with, it's alright, if you don't do business with me, like I have people who would want candidates, hey, no, I'm not gonna buy anything. Today, I'm here to learn, I would say I am so glad that you're here to learn, I'm you do this the way you want to do it. And when you do it with me, or you walk out with treats into it, you know, miles down the road, I don't care to do it, because I know what's going to help you and your heirs in the long run. And so if we can operate from, you know, kind of that opening hand open heart open mind. And just be really honest with the hooks. We will do business in spades because I don't even remember anyone made that proclamation when this happened. I will go into the folder, and save. So we've got everything that you want. Now you know the price and stuff are. And if you find, I'll give you always paperwork, and you can go on how I think about it. And then you can call me when you want to come back if you want to come back. And I think every single person said well, I don't know why I would just do this right now. I actually don't either. But I want to honor what you said when you came in. There's no reason not to. And there's no house hack for you to hit now, there's an app, so you don't have to put another appointment and come on.

Lynn: 1:28:40

Oh, that's amazing. That's amazing. I was just thinking I would love to be sitting across from you in a conversation like that. Because you just feel like you're in the hands of someone who cares. And isn't trying to take advantage and isn't trying to screw you. And I think we spend a lot of time. And I have a particular hot button about feeling like I'm being taken advantage of. I don't do well, when I feel like somebody's trying to take advantage of me. Yeah,

Mary: 1:29:07

yeah, he would not. I sorry. I sent a D on the desk.

Lynn: 1:29:13

Oh, I didn't know it on the desk, but not exactly. options. And

Mary: 1:29:18

you know, so anyway, we can talk about

Lynn: 1:29:22

how her day all day long, right. But that's another that's another one of those things where people are asked, you know, to show up, especially if you have a sales job. I have a couple of clients who have big sales jobs. And what I have found is that their ability to sort of read into what their clients need, and it's often through hints, not through direct requests. Like to me the best salespeople are the ones who are very good at reading between the lines, and truly understanding what their clients are up against and offering what it is that they really need. Not necessarily what they specifically No need, if that makes sense?

Mary: 1:30:01

Well, that's right. And you know what, even for people that really aren't good at reading, leave alone. It's, there's another method. And that is just ask questions. Sure, you know, get over at the funeral home, people don't realize what I'm curious about how options work and Blackplanet, to the most simple, inexpensive to the most elaborate thing that you can imagine if you could have your pre made shot up into space. You know, a gigantic muscle, we haven't become any buried with you. But what I'm always say is just begin by getting to know people ask questions, and do it from a place of sincerity. I really want to get to know you. There's a lot of options. What were you thinking?

Lynn: 1:30:53

That's really,

Mary: 1:30:53

where's your mind right now? Once they began kicking me down, then I can open up all the doors on App down a different one, there's a whole set of different doors on there. At the end of the day, you choose the things you want, and then I'll put it together for you. You want, you can make changes later if you change your mind.

Lynn: 1:31:18

That's beautiful. Yeah, everybody wants that. Everybody wants that? Well, I have I would, I would love to hear as we come to a close, what do you what you would say to someone who is in grief. And I know the long the longer I've lived on this earth? I think one of the trade offs, frankly, for living longer is you're going to have more grief. Yeah. Not always necessarily through losing a child as you did. But, but some people have lost children. But also just sort of one of the honors of staying on this plane longer is that we are going to lose people. Yeah. How would you guide someone, as they enter this part of their lives of knowing grief is going to be a normal part of it. What do you say to them?

Mary: 1:32:12

Well, I think it's different to someone who is already in CO helped in grief, versus people who, you know, sort of are vaguely aware, but really thought a lot about the fact that you will experience a significant grief in your life. I mean, it'd be rare to ever encounter a human that did not. Or maybe they were just lucky to be the last, or the the one that died, perhaps I don't know. But But most people are going to experience create, I guess what I would say is that, you know, in our country, we don't do really any preparation, we want to sort of brush off and act as if we're, you know, we're not vulnerable to ailments and you know, it's never going to happen to us. And so, I would say first of all, for the most folks, um, it is an inevitability. And I might even suggest, you know, doing some research and reading a book, maybe it's my, maybe it's my Ross has Dwight Packard. Yeah, I don't recommend five stages of dying. I can, it's good work. But Kubler Ross his magnum opus, as far as I'm concerned, is a very short essay, a book written by her called life after death, bliss, I think it's called you can find it even with the post, if not 100%. Right. But it's just her authentic writings about work that she did when she wasn't and the most amazing things that happened and I absolutely recommend that

Lynn: 1:34:04

book. And so and so could you say that book again? I'm not sure I've got the

Mary: 1:34:07

whole life after death by Elisabeth Kubler Ross.

Lynn: 1:34:11

Elisabeth Kubler Ross is quite good. Yeah, yeah, after putting

Mary: 1:34:15

over the five stages of grief and death and dying, and that's good work, but I would say because this little s, okay, do that. And so get should get familiar with it. Because I'm telling you, it's, it's gonna happen to you, someone that you love will die for you and you will be faced with something that you haven't thought about. That's the reality of life on her, but to somebody is grieving. You know, I'm gonna go back to what we had a while back, which is just be authentic. And if you don't have words, you know, you can walk up and sit and just say, I just have no more hurts what you're going right now? I'm not sure not year, and I'm hurting you are hurt. And but if you do have words, you know, if you say, I don't know if that I had a beautiful experience with your, you know your mom and this is what happened. You're just sharing your experience combined someone?

Lynn: 1:35:23

Oh yeah, I loved it. I loved it when my mom and my dad, my dad was the most recent to pass it, it was four years ago this month, that's hard to believe. But when somebody would come with a great memory you know, or I loved how your dad always fill in the blank, you know, it just meant the world because it in a way, you know, our our loved ones not only live on on the other side, but they do live on in our memories and our hearts. Yeah,

Mary: 1:35:49

yeah, that's right. That's right. You know, give them to pull away, do you know, it's alright. Okay, I would run up to my office every single morning, for probably a year after losing Aaron. And the first thing I did was had an all outs. And I never told anybody that hated that. But when it was over, I really did feel like I was watched. And I could take a deep breath and maybe look outside and go. Alright, so I'm just gonna pick up this burden and move on with my day. That what I did just sort of lighten the burden just a bit for the day, and I can see what you have. And keep not.

Lynn: 1:36:40

One of the things that strikes me that you did did and do very well is recognize that you don't have to gulp it all at once. But that it's a it's a step by step moment by moment. Yeah, yeah.

Mary: 1:36:53

That's right. It is. And the other thing is, one day has realized that I hope, and I think it was because I don't know, that morning. And it dawned on me, but I guess made me a little bit introspective. But it dawned on me that I felt just erase that day in my life. And I began sort of allowing those things in. I don't know that I was actively looking for them. But I do know that when they struck me, I would say, Well, I'm in that little realism and realize that yeah, the rest of the world is alternating somebody's having maybe the their lives right now, while I'm being tortured, you know, with beef or whatever. We can do that with illness looking at. There's just those little brights.

Lynn: 1:37:56

Yeah. My, my experience going through the grief I've gone through is that the only way out was through and I couldn't hide it Steph and I tried, I did a lot of things to try. But but those those little moments of finally letting the sun shine and or not feeling like the world had to stop for me it although I really felt like it did. But just to recognize that this, this is something I'm moving through gave me a tremendous amount of strength to say this is what grief feels like.

Mary: 1:38:36

Right? Yeah. Yeah. And also behind me, when was that of journey, we often will go what we say over the mountain and go into E and your, your whip. I know, when you're on I already, there can be some really ugly parts where you're bumper to bumper, you know, cash bill, or there's just like a smokestack the whole sheet out if something ugly, but then all of a sudden, you'll be in what I think is the height of the apple hatches and there's nothing surrounding you but ease, maybe we even get a glimpse of a little roadside waterfall. And I think life is like that a journey where you know, it's downright ugly, and uncomfortable. And other times it's just glorious, the breathtaking and that's that's life on Earth and I think we're all on a little journey to be the best school that we can be in this life and you know, make that an additive to whatever else happens after this life whether it be you know, we read Nate whether it be we hate where we go or what about her I you know Oh, no, we have no RU.

Lynn: 1:40:02

We don't and it is what it is. Our belief does not make it so.

Mary: 1:40:06

Yeah. Right. That's right. And it will be what it will be.

Lynn: 1:40:11

That's exactly right. Well, so how do people find you? I know you said you have a Facebook page, but give me all the details on how people can get in touch with you. Yeah,

Mary: 1:40:20

thank you. I do remember website. And it's Mary D. Then.

Lynn: 1:40:29

So say that say that again, because I got these. Mercado de sullivan.com.

Mary: 1:40:39

In my My name's Eric Lipton. And

Lynn: 1:40:43

we will have this in the show notes so that people can find you easier, so they can go to the link.

Mary: 1:40:48

Yep. And then I do have a Facebook page, not just the others, not

Lynn: 1:40:55

just from the other side. Okay. Yeah.

Mary: 1:40:58

And, um, I would say those are the main parties. Yeah. When it can when you want to buy the book. It's available for all major booksellers worldwide online. It's in both digital. And our version just became available. I have not even seen it yet.

Lynn: 1:41:21

Which version time? Oh, you actually have a hardcover version. Very beautiful. Yeah. Lovely. Lovely. Well, it's fabulous hearing what you've been willing to share. And I've been listening with both ears. And I know, our guests, or our listeners are doing the same thing. So thank you so much, Mary, for being with me today. Wow.

Mary: 1:41:46

Thank you. It's been a very interesting conversation. It sure

Lynn: 1:41:51

has been. And for those of you listening, be sure to share this podcast with your friends. And we talked about vision boards in this workshop. So I'm gonna give a shout out to a retreat that I'm doing with Christine Dixon at Mystic waters here in like Florida, North Carolina, May 17 through the 19th. It's called design your life a clarity retreat. And if you're interested in knowing more, you can go to www dot moments of wisdom.com or always see me on Lynn karns.com as well. In the meantime, we will talk to you on the next podcast. Thank you for listening to the creative spirits unleashed podcast. I started this podcast because I was having these great conversations and I wanted to share them with others. I'm always learning in these conversations, and I wanted to share that kind of learning with you. Now what I need to hear from you is what you want more of and what you want less of. I really want these podcasts to be a value for the listeners. Also, if you happen to know someone who you think might love them, please share the podcast and of course subscribe and rate it on the different apps that you're using, because that's how others will find it. Now, I hope you go and do something very fun today.