#75 Chris Dolman: How Can I serve?

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Welcome to Creative spirits unleashed where we talk about the dilemmas of balancing work and life. And now, here's your host, Lynn Carnes.

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Well, welcome to the creative spirits unleashed Podcast. I'm Lynn Carnes, your host. My guest for this episode is Chris Dolman. Chris is the Producing Artistic Director for the Legler Music Festival, an eclectic Music Festival producing world class music in multiple genres, with renowned musicians and bands. Based in western North Carolina, the festival supports Legler classical Academy and the hickory nut gorge outreach and their respective missions. Chris started his career working in radio before becoming a professional actor and director based in New York City. But Chris and his wife have recently moved to Lake lower and they now live here full time. So this conversation took so many fun turns, let me start with when he says in his bio, world class musicians, I am not kidding you.

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These are world class musicians that we talk a little bit about some of my experience when I first realized just who this music festival was bringing to our little town here in western North Carolina. The other thing we talked a lot about was just some of the interesting turns that have happened in his career. For example, shifting his focus from a perspective of what can I get from this to how can I serve in some ways that is what birthed the music festival in the first place. It also led him to new opportunities and challenges many of which we explore in this conversation, which kind of was wide ranging among a lot of different topics.

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We grow don't for example, we dove in on authenticity, on listening, improvisation, just a lot of very interesting topics.

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And as always, you'll hear me following some of those threads and rabbit trails that I find interesting, and I hope you do too. So I do hope you enjoy this conversation. And please share it with your friends and colleagues, write it on the different podcast apps, and so forth, because we really appreciate you listening. And we would love to get the word out there. Enjoy this conversation with Chris Dolan. Chris Dolman welcome to the podcast.

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It's a privilege to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

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I am so happy to have you here. And probably the first thing people are going to notice, as soon as you started speaking is like they're going to say that guy has to be in some kind of radio, or something because of that voice. But, but I'm not going to ask you about radio. First what I wanted. What I'd like to start with is we were talking before we hit record, about sort of philosophical things around life a little bit and intention, and so forth. And you said something that triggered my thought about how I have started to approach my life, which is, at some point, you know, I changed my business name, when I said, You know what, I'm going to go to creative spirits unleashed.

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Because what I'm really doing is instead of letting work, define me, and let life happen, as it may, I'm going to let my life define me. And then that will inform my work, in other words, life, then work not work, then life, right. And that's a complete flip on the head of a lot of societal expectations.

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And a lot of the way people just are automatically going about their business, because we do indeed need work, usually, to pay for our food, housing, and so forth. But I'm curious how you are working with that balance for yourself, given that given that you've come to live here and like lower after being in New York City where a lot of work happens over the last few years, you might have that check decision to come here. So say a little bit about how you think about that balance and how you've evolved, if you will, and your thinking.

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I'm sure. It's good question. I you know, I think there's obviously a huge difference between living in New York City with the energy that happens there and living in Lake Lower Mainland, I think we actually ended up kind of seeking that out my wife Kathy and I, we had no plan in place.

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When we started looking around Lake lore in the area, we actually thought we were going to, you know, live someplace near Asheville for the culture and what was going on, but because we were still in New York, we realized we needed something a little quieter, and kind of much further away from the action than we thought we did. I think if we would have come here now we might have ended up near like near Asheville and so have, like lower. But your your question is, I think to me in some ways, looking at it is is. And first off having the, you know, being fortunate enough being having some gratitude for being able to even have a conversation about well beyond like, how do you, you know, how do you balance your work life, you know a lot of people, it's just they have to work to live and certainly being fortunate enough to live in the city and to have had some good fortune that we were able then to pivot and in and buy a place in Lake Lure, I think there's just you have to recognize that gratitude for being fortunate enough to be able to have those conversations beyond the sense of living every day, and working paycheck to paycheck. So I think looking at it, in some ways is like, you know, when you come out, if you're fortunate to go to college and come out of college in your life, my life pivoted from sports, to the arts, in kind of quick fashion. And so, to me, I think in your 20s and 30s, certainly, it's all about and particularly in the arts, when you're trying to establish yourself in some way, and probably in all types of, of career things, you are focused on your career and your ambition. And and how do you make it work? And certainly, if I was a starving artist, certainly when I went to New York, in terms of how do you make your How do you live in a city is expensive and as dynamic as New York when you're a starving artist, and that's where people go, they go to the art centers to do that, whether they're, you know, whether they're in fine arts, or whether they're in performing arts, or I worked, like you said, I worked in radio, and then I pivoted into the arts. It's, I think you as you get to a certain point in your life now and looking at what I'm doing now with the music festival was that I didn't have to, I'm starting to realize I don't have to put my focus on my own personal ambition, which I think can get into your ego and either trying to prove things that it became more of a sense of how do you serve others in what you do, as opposed to how do you serve yourself and your own ambitions and your own, you know, ego and place in the world. And of course, some of that is making money to live on.

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But it's also some of it is, you know, without even thinking about it, you know, you kind of look back and go like, Well, my ego was definitely involved in how I perceive myself not just as a performing artist, or as I was mostly a theater director, the last 20 or 25 years, or producer is that you start to realize, as you get a little older, and with some good fortune that you don't have to focus on your own self, in terms of what you do, you can focus on perhaps serving the community.

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And so the music festival came out of that idea, because we actually met people at a certain dinner that you were at about six or seven years ago, where we met 12 People in the Lake Lure hickory nut Gorge area who were doing things for the community.

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And we were like, wow, look at all these people we met who are so dynamic and who are looking at what they're doing in serving others, you know, and so that inspired us to kind of look at, well, what talents do we have?

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And what can we bring to the community? And I literally just had a thought about well, what would happen if we started a music festival in the area, what we kind of put that idea out to others. And what we heard back was please do that that would be great. Of course, you don't think about the work that's involved, you just kind of go like, okay, would that be something that some people in the community would embrace. And our close friends who became our close friends out of that dinner six or seven years ago, were people who were like, yeah, and not only do they say that would be great, but then they also stood up and, and also wanted to help in some way. So now you had a group of people who were all moving in the same direction.

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And I went back to New York, because we weren't living here full time. And a good friend of mine, who was one of the great classical musicians in the country was happened to be a good friend of mine. And we had a conversation. And then I learned more about because I was oh, he came always came from producing theater, I produced film, as well. But I'd never really produced music, although people in my life had worked in Nashville, and we're artists in the music business. But all of a sudden, I had these people around me who were, you know, some of the finest musicians working at least in the classical world. And so I started thinking, well, what would it take? And I had always done that, in some ways. The way I was started working in radio, I just thought I'd find out if I could. So, you know, and I think what I learned there was you put your energy towards things, and usually something happens, you know, it's like if you focus your energy, somewhere, something gets created, something gets built. And that's sort of how my life and radio started. It's how my life in the arts started. And so there were always things that were challenging. It wasn't easy to get where you go, because there's so many people in the arts trying to do the same thing. But with the music festival, it just was like, I'll put some energy this way, and see what happens. And then people in the community responded, and not only with their time and energy, but also with the funding as well. And so we started to see a way to make it work between my connections and in the artistic field, including Broadway and stuff.

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And that's how we had the Broadway concert here, that I started to put my focus on how do I serve the community and bring something artistic, that was really artistic. And then we've also found that it also has had a, a serve the community in another way, which is supporting the local or classical Academy and supporting the hickory nut gorge outreach, that we were able to build something so far that has been able to slowly build into more giving to those and donations to those, those organizations that are really doing the important work, you know, our work kind of serves their mission. And so I think in some ways, the music festival has evolved into that, that it's not, you know, initially you could have seen it, well, it could become a business, it could become the Lakeland music festival as a business. And I made the decision a while back, that it wasn't going to be something that served me as a business, it was not going to be that kind of thing, it was going to serve the community as a, a catalyst to serve these institutions. And so we are under the umbrella of the Lakeland Community Education Foundation, which is over the lake or classical Academy and serving it. And so I saw it as rather than being a business model, you know, we have to run it, we have to run it as a business in terms of making sure that we're doing everything we need to do, but it's not going to be something that is my business, it's going to be something we serve the community. In the best way we know how and So music is the catalyst for people to give and then and then support the school and also support hickory nut gorge outreach. So I think the I guess the short answer is, is finding a way to focus your energies on something other than yourself in which is the the greater community and and then letting those institutions do what they do best. And we help we help in our small way to to help them do what they do.

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Yeah, well, there, there are very many threads I want to follow from that. But there's three I want to just call out and then I'm I'll ask about one of them. But one is the flipping the serving yourself. on its head to serve others is is an interesting theme. The idea of both bringing like, like valuing the arts for the sake of the children, because I think a lot of education, especially as its evolved to sort of prove that it's doing its job, education has gone to testing, testing tends to only really be able to measure from the right brain, I mean, left brain, sort of the concrete visible, same thing, if you will, the arts, I think, are incredibly important for brain development, music, and so forth. There's so much to that.

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And yet, it's more happening in the unseen world, meaning it's kind of happening in the connections in the brain, where it's much harder for it to be tested, but yet it's effective.

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So I feel like keeping children, you know, tuned in with things like music and theatre and so forth is important. But one thing I'd like to really follow up on and then we'll touch those other two as well. You mentioned when I turn my focus to something, my focus and energy, something starts to happen. And you You alluded to that had happened with you in the past with radio, it had happened in other areas, and it happened here. What do you think that is because I've noticed the same thing. And it's amazing how quickly something that goes from that looks impossible, or I can't or that's too big. To Well, I could actually make that happen, just by beginning to just put some energy towards something. Tell me a little bit about how that's happened for you in the past and what you think is going on there?

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Well, it's interesting, because, you know, a lot of times we live in fear of what, you know, what will not happen or the consequences and sometimes you have to have a healthy dose of reality to go like, Okay, here's what can go wrong. If I do this, and we certainly every year with a music festival, you know, we're kind of looking at, it's an outside concert, and I swear it keeps me up at night, wondering about the weather. For one one day, and we've been fortunate in the last couple of years with our bluegrass concerts to have really good weather, but, you know, it is something you know, and you kind of go like, can I live this way that I worry about spending so much time worrying about the weather? This is the I guess this idea of you know, you know, they talked about what you can manifest and there's certain We always things you have to you know, that are, you know, you have things that get in the way, you know, there are obstacles to what you want to do. And, and it doesn't mean that just if you put energy towards something it's going to work out. But, you know, if you don't try, if you don't attempt something you'll never know, you know, and, and, you know, I certainly the music festival has evolved, because we, you know, we went through the pandemic, where we couldn't do it for a couple years, and, you know, you're trying to figure out your momentum and how the community responds to it, there's lots of different things that are involved, you know, if the community, you know, has to want it to and has to see its value, you know, sometimes you can start it, and you see its value, and then others have to see it as well. And I think we've seen that happen. But yeah, I do think that anything you put your energy towards, you can change, change, even if it's in the smallest of things, doesn't have to be a music festival that has some scope to it, it can be in anything you do, that when you put your energy towards something, you can change it, and certainly when it's outside of yourself, you know, it's healthy, I guess, in some ways to not be always focused on on on yourself and things. And when, you know, it's kind of like, you know, Jimmy Carter building houses, you know, it's like, the focus of that energy is brought so many other people to get involved with that organization. And so, from small things, bigger things can happen, certainly the ripple of a couple people in idea, you see that all the time, everywhere. But I do think it's, to me, at least has been, as I've, you know, evolved into living here and coming and coming to Lake Lords that I don't really need to focus on so much what I do, and who I am in terms of that being intertwined together, you're not what you do is not who you are, it's just a part, it's just a part of who you are. And so if you, you know, it's funny, because I, you know, in the career I've had, I've, you know, whether it's been radio, or the theater, or getting up on stage, or doing those kinds of things, but one of the things I'm not really enjoying, as much as you know, is, is getting up and talking at these concerts, because, you know, I realized it, you know, I don't really, I have to do that to get certain information out there and introduce the bands and, and talk about what we're doing with the school and stuff like that. But, you know, you can find great pleasure and little things. And when it's, you know, whether it's getting another a couple people more involved in in it, or a business coming in and becoming a sponsor, those things are the little things that help make it successful that you, you don't need to get up on stage and talk about, but it's important that people know that the rest of the community is involved. So I think, you know, maybe in our 20s, and 30s, we sort of focused on our personal ambitions and things like that. And now as a more mature person, you can focus on that whatever you put your energies towards, can have an effect in some ways on others, whether it's going over to help somebody who, who needs, you know, you need to go over to their house and help them because they've had a fall or something like that you put your energies elsewhere, you probably, it seems like you're going to be a little more content. Because what you what you do helps others, you know, and I think that sort of has been, you know, certainly the driving force of the music festival is that, yes, we're bringing great music, which I think is an entertainment and people see the value of that whatever it is, whether it's classical music, or Broadway or, or something like bluegrass, which is very popular, is that the end of it, we get to then do something that helps these other organizations. And so that energy is not happening as a you know, because it needs to be, you know, it has to be our business or something that no, it happens because we know what we're doing is impacting others.

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And the fact that you know, the school added a music teacher in 2023 24. You know, because we help fund it. That is very satisfying, that that means that okay, that was the an outcome that while we didn't ask for it, we didn't say this is where the money has to be spent or whatever. But the fact that it was so related to that we're creating music, which is, you know, is his enrichment to the community. Now, it's also on the ground helping the children at the school because now they have a music teacher they didn't have last year. And so that is and they're going to have it in 24 and 25, because the school can now fund it. And we can put our energies towards other things related to those organizations.

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So

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I this is calling to mind the very first night we had the music festival. And it was in the school gym, which was new.

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And I remember really not understanding what this music festival was going to be all about. We're certainly not expecting or being aware of the quality of The musicians because this, you know, let's paint a picture for the people who don't live in like lower, like lower is a town of 1000 people, right? We don't even have a red light. It blows. It blows up in the summer. We have probably it's It's mid July as we're recording this, we probably have 15 20,000 people here right now. But you know that first that first music festival was in the brand new Jam, which my husband Russ was very instrumental in building, making sure it had it was a gym.

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Natori um, had a stage. I remember watching the build up of getting the piano, you know, brought in and get it tuned. I heard these names. They didn't mean anything to me. But we were, I think sponsors and kind of had good front row seats for that. And I will never forget the moment when it let's say it's mark, remind me the musicians it was Mark Nuccio Nuccio.

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She and who's world famous, world famous a stylist and the piano piano player was Scott clay

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er, who was a young and up and coming guy who they were very excited about because Mark Nuccio the clarinetist knew him.

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And so he was brought in. So he was working with two great musicians that were was elevating his career. They

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were elevating, everybody was elevating. And, and I remember when they began playing, I had never heard a clarinet be played that well.

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That's mark. But But more than anything, there was this moment.

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And it was palpable in the room, when there was almost like a gasp from the audience when they started playing. Because we could have been in New York City at Radio City Music Hall for the quality that was just coming out in our little gym here in North Carolina. And, and there was a moment where the audience and they like you could you could actually I actually remember watching them, almost get that weight. Got it. And then they just played their hearts out.

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And I had chills for that entire evening from being in the presence of that. And how do you describe that feeling. And I'd love your thoughts on it.

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Because that may be one of the nights and I grew up by the way I was. I grew up with a pretty world class musician friend of mine, who was a pianist who ended up in a small town playing for the church. But she had been a concert pianist, she was well known. So I took piano lessons.

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It was a big part of my life. I was in choir, I sang all those kinds of things. So I have added music, but I don't know that I ever had appreciated music like I did that first night in that music festival. With that feeling that I've got, which I've gotten it sense that the other music festivals and other events, it's quite profound.

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What is that? That feeling that happens? What's your take on that? Well,

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it's a couple of things.

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It's kind of like even like in a rock concert, you know, you listen to somebody who loved on a CD, or Spotify. And there's something different about being in the room, you know, there's something different about being that close to it. And that's part of it, you know, to having this kind of intimacy with this great, wonderous talent that you kind of go like, you know, is it it's something certainly spiritual, whether you call it God or whatever, but there is something. And, you know, I think people too, it's like, it's like theater in some way.

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Sometimes it hasn't felt like it's been part of the fabric of American life as it is like over in Great Britain and other countries. You know, even Eastern European countries, theater is part of the fabric of people growing up. And we don't really have that as much in America. You know, it's film and television and things like that are where people tend to gravitate towards but people you know, when you're in the room with something happening, it's it's powerful. I've seen it happen in the theater where something that you would see on TV would not impact you as much as it does in the room, this conversation, whether it's about the content of what it is or the emotional response, it's in the room. So something that gets deep into our bones into our marrow that happens when you're in the room with something, whether it's theatre, and these words coming out or great musicians that you're that close to it. And I remember Yeah, a couple things. I remember I do remember that first moment, because that was the first moment of the music festival happening. We had all this work had happened. And then it was happening in this new space. And it was it was really the first big event that happened at the Raptor Center at the school. And so it was kind of opening up that space and, and all of a sudden, you know, I'd listen to the I was in rehearsals because I was also performing that night as well. So we were rehearsing it and I watched it develop you know, they come in classical musicians come in, you hear them play for the first time. If you feel like, well, they don't need to do anything else. They're done because they come in so prepared. But then even over a couple of days you you recognize the subtlety that changes in the work we did over three or four days to get ready for the opening night but I remember someone in our Group was was talking about the musical selections that they were listening to, like, on YouTube or on Spotify. And they were like, I don't know if this music is accessible enough. It's not.

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It's not Mozart, it's not well known those melodies or whatever. And the Friday before the Saturday concert, we, we were there in rehearsal, and this person was in the room, and they listened to one of those.

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One of those pieces that that Mark Nuccio, the clarinet clarinet was playing. And we, it was a rehearsal. And so we'd opened it up to a few people who were on our committee, and I turned around after he had finished, and it was, you know, it was spiritual, it was glorious in its way, and that person was weeping. And they were like, they got it, they got it now that being in the room is different from listening to it.

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And so when you have that artistry, which is, is profound, it moves you in some ways, it doesn't have to be words, you know, because words can move this in the theater and, and in film, and things like that, and the ideas of storytelling, but you know, music can be storytelling as well, even if there aren't words connected to it. And so I think it does touch us in some place that has been passed down, through, you know, through the ages to us. And so I think that's why the arts matter, they can reach us in certain ways. And that's why it's important that even if it's, even young children are exposed to the arts, I always look at my, my parents generation, my parents grew up in New York, and they learned how to sight read music and play instruments in, in elementary school, and, and sing and sightseeing and sight read music, that that whole generation of my parents generation, all everybody played instruments, everybody told stories, there was a sense of the arts reaching people. And I think in some ways, you know, in terms of budgeting, and we always talk about, you know, do we give enough money to schools that, you know, that the arts, you know, sometimes because it's not tested, it's not part of the core curriculum of things that we sometimes lose a sense of what it gives to us, as people, you know, and so, music in your life, even if you don't become Bruce Springsteen, or whatever, but if you play the guitar, which I've seen in my life, I play music, but, but it's like to be able to sit around and share music or, or other arts with people that you know, you are, enriches your life in ways that can't be tested. You know, and so, we need that. Because I think the arts is not, you know, while the arts can be political, and tell, but, you know, they tell us about who we are as people, they, they also, it's not always about conflict, you know, it's about bringing people together, you know, you sit in a room, dark theater, or, you know, we're a concert space and listen to music, collectively, there's something about collecting together as people, whether it's storytelling or music that enriches us, and, and is not about conflict, it's about, you know, we talked about, you know, our country is, you know, splitting in ways politically, that, you know, we don't in a quiet space, listening to music or, or the theater that reaches, reaches us isn't an important component to bring us together. You know, you know, the Greek word, you know, theater, the Greek word, it means it's the seeing place is what it means. And, and it's a place where you go to see things but also it's a place where reflects, you know, on who we are, and says a little bit about something. I mean, that's why it's important to go to theater and go to art is that it reflects about who we are, and some of our best places, you know, the best of us the best of who we are not, not the places that you know, are about, you know, husbanding resources and trying to hold on to what we have. It's about sharing something.

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So that will boy Oh, that's a huge one right there.

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The husbanding of resources is sort of. I've had a teacher describe it, as you can see it as taking something that is less and using it to enrich yourself are lifting it up. And to me, music is such an uplifting thing. And that experience of feeling. And you know, I was reflecting as you were talking about the musician sort of getting at you remembering that moment in the room with all the people there. When I did my TED Talk in 2015, we did a dress rehearsal, it was at the Tryon Fine Art Center down here down the road. There were, you know, maybe 20 people in the room when we did the dress rehearsal, and I have not spent that much time on stage. It had been a long time since I've been on a stage.

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And so I kind of thought I had my dress rehearsal when I went through the whole speech that I had had the experience that I needed to have. Right right and and The one thing I realized that day was, Boy, you better wear some deodorant, you know, because I was sweating bullets.

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But but the next day, when I showed up with my deodorant, I was actually I think on dress rehearsal, they had us wear the same clothes. So I had actually cleaned my clothes. But I remember walking out on the stage, and I had been in the audience because you know, it's an all day thing, and you're listening to everybody do their talks, and I was somewhere, I think I was the first one after lunch. And it took me by surprise, the feeling I got of the energy back from the audience. And I had to realize in a moment, first of all, I could feel how much they were rooting for me. And what what I recognized was, this is a, this is a wave that I can ride, if I'm willing to allow myself to be with the feeling of it. To be present. Yeah, to be present.

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Had I tried to block it. I feel like I would have gone into the space that I think is so debilitating in our society right now. And this is where I'm going with this question is a feeling of anxiousness like, Do I look okay? And am I doing it right, and this feels uncomfortable. And so I've, I've started making a distinction of light of the distinction between feel, meaning I felt the audience I'm present with it, and feelings, which means I'm fearful and scared and maybe happy and joyful, but worried and you know, anxious and all those things. How do you? How do you feel? How have you witnessed for yourself and other artists you've worked with? How do you witness them balancing that because the feelings or the feel can tap into our insecurities a little bit, especially when we're in a public venue, we're in front of people where we could look like an idiot. And all of us, including me have made mistakes on stage that can be debilitating. So, tell me how you ride that way. And how you danced that tightrope?

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Well, you know, it's not always, I think, when you focus on the fear of what could go wrong, or what could happen, that you know, and perhaps even talking about your TED talk is that if you weren't present, if you you know, a lot of times you hear people say like I don't know, not so much that I don't remember what happened, that they were positively inside the experience, but that they focus so much on what could feel the fear of it, that they didn't experience it. And you hear that sometimes at weddings, where people don't experience their own wedding, because of the monumental sense of it's our one chance or one day to have it, we were just at a wedding where we were reminding the the young bride and groom to, you know, to, to have that experience, you know, to be present. And they did a very nice job, that they had a joyful day, because they weren't focusing, they had help and everything, a lot of you know, a lot of their people love them, we're looking out for them. But it's, you know, in day to day, things that can happen for people, but I've definitely experienced it both ways. I've experienced in a sense where you let the fear lead you, as opposed to embracing, you know, nerves and stuff, you hear athletes talk about that, that you know, you have to embrace being nervous because it matters to you, right? nerves come because it matters to you, and you want it to go well. But you have to embrace that and realize that you will get through it.

00:33:20.460 --> 00:33:34.019
And I've seen it because being I was a professor and a teacher at a conservatory of people, I've seen people with real stage fright, who want to be actors somehow start to embrace the fact that you're going to come out the other side of it, okay?

00:33:34.559 --> 00:34:44.010
Doesn't mean you're going to be mistake free, and that things aren't going to be a part of the joy of writing, whether it's a performance or there is that you have to embrace the unexpected, you know, live theatre is wonderful, because it you're, you know, you're writing something that you can't control because it's live and there are other people involved in the audience's part of it. And, and I remember, there was a famous actor who I love came to a performance, a closing night of performance I was at, and it was painful, because I felt like this person was up on stage with me the whole time, you know, and it was like, almost like, every time you did something, it was that little voice just like everybody says that little voice that is questioning your ability, your your your talents, your your you know, and so it was not a fun evening on the stage, even though it was a wonderful eight weeks of performing this play at this professional theater that I work with. But it was like, you know, allowing your fears to overwhelm the experience and being so I wasn't really present. I was present in some sort of dimension of, you know, knowing this person was out there and enjoyed it and loved it. And that's it. Yeah, but

00:34:44.009 --> 00:34:47.789
what's what's he thinking is what your brain was doing, right? Yeah. As opposed to

00:34:47.820 --> 00:37:08.670
allowing me to trust with the work we had done and trust what you do. I mean, trusting yourself is important. But you know, the enormity of having this, you know, you know what I thought was one of the finest actors You have ever kind of done it in the audience and hearing that person laugh, which was great, you know, laughing at the right times and stuff and enjoying it. But at the same time, it almost felt like this person was on stage with you. So I've had it where I haven't embraced or trusted you trusting yourself and understanding that you can't control the experience that you have. Whatever you do, and so, you know, whenever I taught, you know, acting or taught directing, or whatever is that you have to embrace the experience as opposed to trying to control the experience. And so whatever, whatever that is, is going to happen, whether it's a job interview or presentation, I tried to give real world for people who weren't going to make it their business or their life's work, which I love teaching college was that that some people were dipping a toe in and kind of going like, do I like this can do I want to do this as a career. Even those who didn't, I said, you know, if you can do this, if you can embrace being up on stage, 15 weeks in a class at a college, you can embrace that you can do it, and come out the other side and be okay. Even if quote, If quote, mistakes happen, or it doesn't go exactly the way you planned it plan and prepare, and then improvise your life, you know, you got to improvise the experience, you know, you you prepare, which is what musicians do and actors do you prepare, and then you embrace being present, you know, the best musicians, even the best classical musicians who are very regimented, and play the notes and get it right. In that room, when they're rehearsing. There's also interpretation and intuition. And it's not that they're going off and playing something else. But there is a place for improvisation, even in the structure. And I would say in your life, you can, there's place for improvisation even as you prepare, whether it's for a job interview, but you because like in a good job interview, just like this conversation, it's a conversation. Right? You know, it's not you performing for, you know, for the job, you have the best interviews, the best things are conversations rather than, you know, job interviews, or, you know, those are the things that go best when there's a give and take your

00:37:08.699 --> 00:37:55.530
it's a love that you called out that's exactly what we're doing. As we speak in this conversation. It's a bit of improvisation. And also this the ability to do so even within a structure of a written paste, because you're not talking about jazz, which is sort of by design and improvisation, right? There may be a read, there might be a tune a melody that they're gonna follow, but they play off of that in a very, they have a lot of license to change. Yeah, yeah, a structure. You know. And the other thing you you mentioned, as musicians, or you know, as you called it, improvising and interpreting. I, when I started taking piano lessons, again, as an adult I had, I called him a piano tuner.

00:37:51.090 --> 00:39:14.369
And in my mind, he was just a piano tuner, until he decided to play the piano. And then he unleashed this amazing blues that just had my jaw dropping, and it was a very old player piano, he does his best, it did not have a great sound, even when in tune. But my jaw dropped. And I was like, Whoa, can you give me lessons? And it turned out as I learned over the time, he played with Stevie Ray Vaughan, at one point he had played with one of the is it Wynton Marsalis. He played he played a lot of with a lot of people. And so he was pretty proficient. And as I was struggling early on, in our lessons to play a piece perfectly. I remember just being crushed by my mistakes. And he said, Lin, I'm a professional musician, and I've never played a piece perfectly. And I said, but I've seen you on stage by then I had seen a play. I was like, I saw no mistakes. And he goes That's because as professionals, we've learned to play through the mistakes. Yeah, he said, we don't get we don't let them stop us. We don't go at let me start over. You know, right, we just keep on playing and in a way they kind of make the piece unique, if you will.

00:39:10.289 --> 00:39:39.480
And so that was a huge lesson for me. Now implementing it has been harder. It's one thing to know it in my head. Right? That that it's okay to make mistakes, but then when they hit me, it's different. So what have you found that helps the professionals in your life and you've been around a lot of people who are in this exact domain? What what do you believe most helps people actually implement this idea of play through the mistakes?

00:39:39.960 --> 00:42:23.969
Hmm, that's a good question. I you know, you you know the word you use perfection. We talked a lot about it when I was teaching at a conservatory in New York about that just the seeking or striving for perfection can be a dangerous road to go down because you that means there's a lot of self criticism and You know, and part of you, you want to do your best, you know, there's a technique involved, whether it's being a classical musician or being an actor, that you're learning a technique, a way of working, that you bring there. But seeking perfection can be a very dark road to go down. So I used to talk about for myself is that when I go into like, I'd be hired to go direct to play at a professional theater up in Maine, that I would, even though maybe this wasn't the best way to look at it, but I was, I was striving and seeking the best. And maybe the word was perfection of the production that I was directing that I was handling all the elements of, but then I had to, I had to embrace the human, the human side of it, that we were working with other people who are in, we're all imperfect. So the idea that you could seek your highest you could strive for the best you could, but then embrace the human part of it is that we are all fallible. And that, you know, you weren't going to get a perfect production out of whatever you use, but you are striving to do the best, most authentic work, I mean, authenticity is a big word for me is that you're trying to be authentic in your life and trying to be authentic in the work you do as an artist, that you and you have to embrace the foul, you know, being human and being fallible. And that you were, you weren't giving yourself off the hook. Well, I'm not going to I don't have to practice today, I don't have to get better at what I do, but that I am you embrace your fallibility. And that so that we talk a lot about in teaching young young artists that you use, you know, you, you strive and work hard to do the best you can, but you allow this, you know, the human part of it is that, you know, there, it's not about being mistake free, you know, and putting that onus on yourself that you're so self critical, that you're your worst critic, you beat yourself up all the time. And so I think people do that a lot, particularly when they're striving in their careers. And what they want to do is that you you work very hard, but in you strive for is called striving for perfection, but understanding that, you know, the human fallibility of bringing a bunch of people together to produce something, and create something, you have to give space for that, you know, and that you then if you're your worst critic, you tend not to do your best work.

00:42:24.480 --> 00:43:29.219
You know, if you're so self critical, that that's what you focus on. And that's that little person on your shoulder, in your ear telling you, you're not good enough for that you're, you know, particularly in the fine arts or performing arts, you have to embrace the, you know, that it's, there's, there's not one way to do something, there's, you know, that there's, there's many ways to make art beautiful. And so and, and, and authentic, and that you, you, you can't be your worst critic, you can, you know, you can make demands on yourself to be, you know, to work at what you do to become a fine artist, but you don't need to then be someone who constantly beat yourself up in your ear, which can be you know, demoralizing and not healthy. You know, and so there's so there's so many uncertainties in the arts anyway, that, you know, there's this balance of, you know, we always talk about being a hard worker and doing the work you need to do. But being so self critical that you can damage yourself is not not a healthy way to approach anything, really. So,

00:43:29.489 --> 00:44:29.458
no, and that idea that I play a lot, as I'm a recovering, self critic, I guess, or beating myself up. But but but I've looked at, you know, I've looked at the cost in different ways of beating yourself up and one of the things that is really starting to show up for me now, because I've one of the early costs that I got right away is actually once you beat yourself up, you'd actually don't change anything. Like your your goal is to change something, but it's kind of like you've taken your licks, so you don't really have to change anything, because the punishment was the self criticism, as opposed to using that to like, create, you know, the momentum to change. But the latest thing I've started really noticing is it does come through back to that end, same thing that we've been talking about around energy that kind of comes through in your energy field, and it takes the work, you know, so I've noticed that the beating yourself up actually is like it makes you not as good as you want to be.

00:44:30.539 --> 00:46:14.489
Well, that's where you focus your energy on you focus your energy rather than on process you. You know, it's a difference between process and end results. You know, if you only focus if you only focus on the end result, you know, the joy, you know, you know, people think of actors is ego driven, but I know when I was, you know, focusing as an actor or director in the theater, I've always enjoyed the process more than the end result. You know, it's about and the great thing about being a director is you leave after a couple of days and you You don't, you're not seeing the show every night, but you've done your work. And so you focus on process rather than, you know, end gaining and saying that it's always about the result, which would be the applause or the, you know, whatever, it feels good, you know, a good concert goes well, but you have to, if you don't enjoy the process, you probably shouldn't do it, you know, if you're not enjoying the process, so embrace, embrace, split the process of doing something rather than just the end result is, which is, can be more ego driven, you know, particularly in the arts, you know, if you're, you know, as opposed to, you know, a painter, just saw that a friend of mine that opened a new studio, and, you know, if he doesn't love painting, there's no reason to do it, you know, there's, you know, you've got to love that solitary process of creating art. But if you're just critical about what the end result is, then, you know, if that's what you focus on, then, you know, it's you're not really focusing on process, you know, and, and I think in anything you do, you focus on process and try to keep the, you know, the ego of the end result in his or, you know, that kind of thing, getting in the way of, you know, I think you can enjoy your life, if you don't enjoy the process of what you do, you know, if we're talking about what what

00:46:14.489 --> 00:46:49.918
you also correct, and it's also you notice that when you were talking about the end result, you're talking about the applause. And what you're describing, if you're looking at process is it's more of an inside out way of living, as opposed to outside in. In other words, what you're doing in the process in the studio by yourself painting or in the, at the piano practicing or in the you know, my case, sometimes right writing or whatever that might be, it's the act of it is driven, where it's an internal locus of control, as opposed to everything I'm doing is to get them out there to tell me on Okay,

00:46:50.219 --> 00:48:08.400
right? Well, yeah, and it's yeah, we want to be recognized, certainly want to be recognized for what you do. But if that's your focus, then and that can happen. I mean, you certainly get, you know, whether you're in a job that's not recognizing the work you do, or the talents you have, or whatever you want to keep proving yourself you know, maybe the journey is to worry less about those outside things telling you, whether you're, you know, your your value, what you do. If you're fortunate enough to do some things that you feel are valuable. You know, maybe that's enough to focus on that you know, the things you do the work you do and and being a good person, others the generosity you do. You focus on being generous, I, you know, if you focus on being generous, I think, you know, it, you know, it ends up sort of working out for you, I was listening to one of your podcasts and, you know, this idea that you're trying to control the world around you a little bit, your neighbors are bothering you and bugging you and you're trying, you're trying to control everything around you. You know, you're probably not as generous when you're dealing with life's problems when you're you know, you're focusing on what's wrong with other people and what they're doing. You know, so focusing on generosity is certainly helpful.

00:48:08.789 --> 00:48:11.760
You know, you don't have to focus on other things. So,

00:48:12.780 --> 00:48:41.820
yeah, generosity of spirit is something I'm often saying to clients, you know, it's like, where can you find your generosity of spirit when they're caught? You in that space, because it changes, it just almost changes the direction of the flow, and it creates a flow in a way. So yeah, I really liked it. And you're and you're right, we do at the end. Like, I don't think I think it's a balancing act. I think if it's all outside, and it's not good. And if it's all inside out, it's not good.

00:48:37.469 --> 00:49:00.090
There's no, there's no sort of place where you can say, Okay, this is, this was something that was worth doing, somebody else got to enjoy this piece that I created for them. Because there's a part that says, you know, in our art and anything else, it's like, here, I made this for you. Do you like it?

00:48:55.860 --> 00:49:01.590
You know, is another piece of art? Well,

00:49:01.590 --> 00:50:09.900
I think it certainly would help to, though, I mean, on the other side of it is, you know, read stories about the generosity of certain companies and managers and things of people who are, who are running, you know, companies in terms of that, whether they're big corporations or small. I really do like seeing the stories where there's a generosity top to bottom where you're seeing people I know, you talk to CEOs, and you talk to people who run things, that it seems like the work world works better when there's generosity from the top down in terms of whether it's compensation or recognition, and that it's you know, capitalism works in certain ways, but it's to me it works better when you see the generosity working its way all through the company, in terms of web in different ways, whether it's compensation and or recognition that you see there's a certain spirit that values everybody, and when I read those stories, it's it's It's certainly, it's, it's heartening, but I'd like to read more of them, you know, where you see that happening? Oh, you know that it's a zero sum game.

00:50:10.050 --> 00:50:20.670
You know, it's not just a zero sum game. You know, success doesn't just come from the bottom line. And so when I read the stories of, of it working its way down. I'm heartened by that. But I'd love to see more of it.

00:50:21.690 --> 00:51:53.670
I would like to see more myself. And right at the beginning of this conversation, you talked about sort of that awareness you had of what it is to serve others. And in the back of my mind, where I went right away is I work with certain companies where there's a clarity in the entire organization of how we serve our customers. And when they are really clear on what it is they do for their customers, it tends to create a very different culture than the culture that says, we are doing this to make money. And when I feel like might have gotten a little bit out of balance in the conversation, in maybe I'm not working with that many global companies, but and capitalism is the belief that, that making money is so important. And, you know, you talk to venture capital guys, and people like that, and they're talking about cap tables, and, you know, return on equity, and multiples, and blah, blah, blah. And they're, it's all sort of measuring the blood. And, to me, that's the equivalent of our lives being that every single day, all we're doing is looking at the blood tests for the day, because cash flow in a business is the lifeblood of the organization. But it is not the reason for the organization. And so what, but you want it to be healthy, in order for the organization to be healthy, it's very critical. But it's not the reason. And so we were running around looking at our blood test every day going, well look that levels up and this levels down.

00:51:51.059 --> 00:52:58.590
And, you know, we're going to take, we're going to take our report to, to our friends to say check it out, my blood is the best it's ever been. There's something off in that. And it's kind of the same way it is with companies. It's just one of the indicators of the health of the organization. And so one of my missions in working with my clients. And, you know, I started this way back in the days when I was training bankers, how to evaluate businesses and so forth is, let's be clear, it's essential that we die without our blood, businesses die without their cash flow. So to nonprofits, as you well know. Right? It's not about the money, it's about how, where you put the money in the conversation. So I really like your way of thinking about the service. Because as we think about what we do, how do we serve our customers? What is it we're here to do for them? And it's not to extract money, it is to provide, you know, why is Amazon so dang successful? You know, they're making so much money now, not at the beginning.

00:52:55.949 --> 00:53:15.630
But it's because they actually did really find a way to serve us in ways that have caused me to become the best recycler of boxes you've ever seen, because boxes showing up that I ever did. Right, right. You know, I just depend on Amazon.

00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:44.130
And I would say with them, you know, we don't go too far down this road. But, you know, you know, they have had that success. And now it should be, you know, the people who are, you know, making that happen every day in those warehouses and, and all through that company should be benefiting from that as well, you know, and should be, should be valued for what they do beyond the cogs of this giant organization now, so I hope that

00:53:45.690 --> 00:54:07.050
you just hit Yeah, you just had another one of my hot buttons, which is the car question. And one of the unfortunate things in the way our school system started years ago, many decades ago, when we started bringing people out of the fields and into the factories was we started teaching them to become cogs.

00:54:03.059 --> 00:54:10.739
You know, it's not natural for a human to sit in a classroom or a an office for eight hours a day.

00:54:11.730 --> 00:55:31.050
We were not made for that. But if we're conditioned to do that, and believe that our job is to be a cog in the wheel, that's a whole nother game. And we've really pervasively caused that to be the expected thing, as opposed to having people who are in those jobs begin to understand they are providing a value as well. And to be able to advocate for themselves and not buy into it, because that'll keep going as long as there are people willing to be the cog. So one of my missions in life is to begin showing people if you flip this thing around, no matter where your status is, and start valuing yourself and understanding you provide a service as well. We can break the cycle of this cog thing and let people get a little bit back more to their natural self. And there I go getting on my soapbox, I'll be quiet. But you're exactly right. It's not it's not correct. To take advantage of the people that are providing those services, but you're this and this is the point of unions to is help advocate for people who don't have as much of a voice. But we are seeing long as you as long as we don't allow people who don't have a voice, if we don't show them how to find their own voice, they're always going to be at the mercy of someone else who will use them for the sake of their agenda.

00:55:29.460 --> 00:55:31.050
Sure.

00:55:31.769 --> 00:56:09.570
Well, our challenge is to you know, when you're 17, or 18 years old, or however young people start thinking about it, or have to start thinking about what they're going to do with their lives is, you know, there are certainly times in those those years where you're not sure what who you are what you want to do. And, you know, maybe the challenge then is to, you know, our path is to find out not only what we do, but who we are, and, and figure out something that that works for you and your life and whatever that is that you do. But it's hard. I know, when you're that age, there's always that time when you're, you know, when you're figuring out who you are.

00:56:09.570 --> 00:56:30.809
And then people start talking about, well, what are you going to do? And what should you do with your life? I'm not sure what that answer is what you should do with your life. My my life and experience has certainly been a bit random, you know, in terms of you know, of what you end up doing. But certainly, there have been times in your life where you've got to keep asking, What am I what am I doing with my one precious life?

00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:46.829
Is it you know, whether you're serving community, are you? Are you doing something that you value, and you know, that you find fulfilling, whatever that is? And, and I'm fortunate to be able to have that conversation.

00:56:44.579 --> 00:57:16.170
So I'm certainly haven't figured it out yet. Because I know, even where I'm at now, is that you question you make to have those same questions? Am I? Am I good at what I do? Do I? Am I doing what I need to be doing? Should I be doing this? You know, those questions always come, I imagined throughout your whole life, you're asking, if you're fortunate enough to be able to stop and think about it is to ask those questions about what you're doing. Is it fulfilling to you? And is it and to be able fortunate to be able to do that?

00:57:16.440 --> 00:57:25.230
And is a privilege? Certainly, and you have to have gratitude for that if you're able to stop and stop and have that conversation? So

00:57:25.860 --> 00:57:51.599
yeah, because it does, it does feel like we get caught up in it. And I think everybody actually needs to go through the cycle of doing whatever it takes to put food on the table. You know, if you have to just go get a job at McDonald's, or whatever that is, I think everybody needs to go through that phase as well. For just for appreciation of what that what that is to live in that in that place. And yeah, you know,

00:57:51.750 --> 00:58:34.050
everybody's journey, everybody's journey is a little different to and so, you know, you know, bigger questions, or, you know, how do we help people take a step forward, you know, and if it's the school, helping educate the kids, and getting them to a better place, preparing them for something that's worth, you know, that's worth supporting, if it's hickory nut, gorge outreach, who are lending a hand when people need it, then you know, the good work, and I've seen plenty of people in our community, you know, doing that good work, you know, giving, you know, giving your time is, you know, the best thing you can do. So if you can give your time to organizations and support those and help others, then you certainly are doing something worthwhile, you know, and I see that

00:58:35.190 --> 00:59:22.650
you definitely hit on what caused us to, you know, be so dedicated to the school for so many years. And, and really, I don't know, I don't see him, you know, ever 100% getting out of it, because he had such a passion for, you know, providing an education for kids in the in the gorge where they didn't have to get on a bus and go somewhere every day, for hours a day, and providing the quality of education that would give them a chance to fresh, perhaps change the trajectory of where they might have otherwise been for the opportunity to to be in service and what kind of job they might be more talented for, you know, there's just a lot, a lot, a lot of really smart kids in this community who otherwise might not have been had a chance to, like fully realize their potential. And

00:59:24.690 --> 01:00:15.090
it's really manifested itself and all of a sudden, there's this campus now there's this there's a campus, there's a gym a tour, and there's a performance space. It's beautiful over there, and where where you guys have been here much longer than we have, but all of a sudden, where there was nothing there is something which then manifests and it manifests itself into new ideas coming about which you know, are happening now and all build upon each other and it's not a straight road to success and you know, everything working out there are challenges and all those things that have had to be pushed through but there are enough people in the community With Russ, obviously, as Russ, I imagined, Russ is kind of a character in your podcasts, because he gets mentioned periodically. I don't know if he likes always, I don't know if he even listens. But the funny thing is, it's under this one.

01:00:15.539 --> 01:01:33.420
But someone like yourself and Russ who, you know, inspire people like us to get involved and do things, it has a cumulative effect. And our small community is better for it, you know, and, and the more people pushing in those directions, brings good things, you know, in Russ, I know is still active and doing things, and putting his energy there. You know, hopefully, that inspires others to do the same. And then all of a sudden, you have a school campus that people are proud of, and are healthy for the kids to work in, you have these organizations that pop up and start to do the good work, you know, in the community. So, you know, that is from realize we talked about earlier, putting your energy towards something, and it doesn't have to manifest itself into a giant campus and all this great things, but it can manifest itself in helping you know, one person in your neighborhood or, you know, we're in your community, and, you know, it all starts with an idea, right? It does start with an idea and a will to do it. And somehow you get there with all the, you know, the challenges and obstacles that happen. And that's how communities, you know, change and grow get better, you know, we need people like that to, to give their time and efforts.

01:01:33.690 --> 01:02:02.130
Well, you know, you you alluded to this early in the conversation, this idea of you put the energy in, and then you have all these obstacles and so forth. And, and without a doubt, it takes like a handful of people, Russ being one of them, for example, at the school that just kept plugging along. And, and overcoming obstacles. And I remember, for example, and boy, I mean, Russ, Russ doesn't let obstacles stop him. In fact, sometimes I think he loves them.

01:01:57.630 --> 01:02:33.510
Because one day, it was in 2015, they were building the new campus. And there was something happening in the foundation, and they needed holes dug or something. And the equipment wasn't working. I don't know what, but he went and got our tractor, and took it over there and just did whatever the thing was that needed to be done. And like there, now you can keep moving. Because if you don't get this done today, he could see what was going to happen to the schedule. I would bet that you have 100 stories like that for yourself with a music festival.

01:02:28.019 --> 01:02:49.050
Are there any? Are there any particular places or stories that you remember where you sort of dawned on you, wow, I'm going to, like if this thing is going to keep going, I'm gonna have to lean in in a way that I didn't expect to have to lean in. Is there anything you're willing to share along those lines?

01:02:49.469 --> 01:03:15.628
Well, you know, the pandemic, you know, what's interesting about the pandemic we came out of it is like, we've got a start up again. And we weren't even sure this was I guess, 2022. Now, we weren't sure even at that point, how we could gather and what we could do, and we'd had set up that the Broadway concert, we were going to bring in people from New York and Broadway and do it in 2020.

01:03:11.849 --> 01:03:21.208
And of course, we delayed it for the health, you know, we couldn't gather together the way we want to. And we had to switch out how we were going to do it.

01:03:21.208 --> 01:03:35.159
Because that first year and if you remember we had, what was great about the first year is that we had $10 tickets for everybody. And then if you wanted to meet the musicians and have dinner and everything we have, you know, we had a way to raise more money for the school and make everything more viable.

01:03:35.159 --> 01:04:34.498
So people could go to the lake Lorien and, and have dinner with musicians after the concert. So we had that level ticket as well. So when we came out of the pandemic, we were like, well, we can't really have that dinner that we were going to have in 2020. Because we weren't sure of gathering 150 people in a closed room that would be safe for people at that point. And so we you know, we came back and you know, we were still living in New York, in New York City. And so we weren't in the, in the community, trying to figure out how we move forward. You know, and that's one of the things I learned I'd started a theater up in New England. And it's always better when you walk into the hardware store. And you're not going like you're only just not talking about, you know, the music festival. You know, when I, when we meet, it's not just talking about the music festival. And I found that for me being in the community and living here is that when I meet people I know and everything it's not always with Hey, can you help the music festival? Can you be a sponsor? Can you do that? You know, you're part of that community a little bit. So we were still kind of far away.

01:04:34.498 --> 01:04:56.219
We were up in New York City. And so we were coming down here when we could and doing things I'd come down for a week and work on it and go back up to New York, but I was engaged in what I was doing in New York. And so I realized coming out of a pandemic that, you know, I'd relied on certain people. We have a committee of people who were helping us but they were not, you know, event producers.

01:04:52.588 --> 01:04:56.219
They were not music producers.

01:04:56.219 --> 01:05:17.849
And so, Kathy and I my wife Kathy, who was An event producer and a world class event. Person in New York, you know, our experiences and what we knew we were doing work from New York and working when we could to make it happen. And we just kind of realized coming out of pandemic, that we had to tighten up things because we couldn't get together like we did before.

01:05:17.849 --> 01:06:41.849
And we were going to somehow from like, March of 2020, to somehow get concerts together for June. And, you know, we were sort of like, okay, as soon as we hit the ground running, since we get to Lake lower, we're gonna have, we have about three or three, four weeks to put everything together and promote it. And I was running around, going from Forest City to a radio station there over to Hendersonville to, you know, we just were head down, and trying to get the word out as best we could. And we were fortunate that we were able to get started again. But that was kind of the turning point, because we came out of the pandemic, sort of not knowing how people would gather and how we could successfully move forward. And we got through that, that season. And built upon that, so that the last two years 2023 and 2024, have really kind of kind of been a compounding, you know, success in terms of being able to help the community and so we're, you know, we're about to announce, you know, our, our donations are probably, there might be a story in the mountain breeze on August 1 With us, you know, making a donation to the school, and their new programs about feeding the children and stuff. And that's all going to happen in the next couple of weeks. And then we're going to make our donation to the hickory nut gorge outreach. So it kind of felt like when we came back out of the pandemic, there was two people in New York sort of going like, Okay, what do we do now?

01:06:42.059 --> 01:07:02.188
To make the concert happen in about six weeks? Wow. So yeah, so we we had everything sort of lined up, ready to go. But we had all the on the ground stuff we had to do. And so somehow we got through that. And that kind of, you know, was a springboard to 2023 being so successful in 2024, as well, so

01:07:02.219 --> 01:07:13.199
yeah. Oh, yeah. It's every year. Although I remember, as you're talking about, I was thinking 20, June of 2022. I didn't go to that one. Oh, yeah.

01:07:09.360 --> 01:07:36.719
That was the first time I got COVID. That June of 2010, we had been to the CMA fest. And that's what that's right. COVID. And you were coming in, then you were right. Yeah. And I was coming. And then I tested and it was like, I'm not going anywhere. And actually, you know, we talk about the pandemic, like it's in the past, but just this last week, I had a coaching intensive for took two different coaching clients here.

01:07:33.539 --> 01:08:22.170
And on Sunday evening of the opening part of the session, we found out that one of the women has had COVID. And she was actually ready to get in the car and drive here. And I said, Can you just do a COVID test before you show up with whatever this nasty thing I can hear in your voices. And she came back and said, I took the COVID test, and I have COVID. So it's still here, you know, and so you've found a way not to put people in the big room. Thank you for that. Because I had something after being on a flight a couple of months ago. I didn't test this time, but I'm guessing it was COVID. I just I didn't test because I said I'm just going to quarantine. And whatever this is, I don't want to give it to anybody else. So, you know, we were also we were also challenged doing that, you know, we're go ahead,

01:08:22.170 --> 01:08:28.529
we were also challenged in 2022 is that we were bringing all our musicians together and how do you get through the week?

01:08:29.100 --> 01:09:02.220
You know, we were we had a testing, we had a testing protocol for 2022 people tested before they got here, because we were bringing about 10 musicians together. Or maybe 12, I guess 15 and one and it was actually one of our local we hired some local people for the Broadway concert. And our we did the program. And of course, I think it was the bass player was like, oh, or the drummer was like, Oh, he's got COVID He's out right before we started local rehearsals. And so we were we were certainly that was one of our challenges is how do we bring all these people together?

01:08:59.909 --> 01:09:24.029
Where are we going to house them? How are we going to keep everybody safe that week? You know, and I actually, that same year in April, I was directing a play at a professional theater and we all gathered the very first day in the room. There's about 15 or 20 of us and we all tested and all of a sudden somebody was leaving. And we were like, Yeah, you're right.

01:09:20.100 --> 01:09:42.630
So we had to make those decisions, certainly not to bring a bunch of people together in a room for a big dinner. We were trying to figure out how do we do this successfully and safely. And so there were those considerations in theaters and concerts and people all over the world were doing that. So and some you know, still there.

01:09:42.659 --> 01:09:52.260
There are companies that are still struggling to get back to their capacity of what they had as people coming because people's viewing habits change.

01:09:47.670 --> 01:10:43.739
People realize they could spend their lives watching Netflix and and all that stuff and not have to pay $50 to go see a play or go see a concert they could spend $10 or $15 on there, and have as much entertainment as they want. So people, you know, we're slowly even in New York on Broadway, coming back slowly to get back to a capacity they had pre pandemic. And so, so we're seeing that still. But we have there certainly focus on keeping people safe that first year and, and we're worried less about it moment to moment. But we're still when we bring people together, we have to think about it in terms of, you know, how do you do it in a way that keeps it so that you can go on because you get to that week where you're doing the concert and you lose somebody? How do you replace them? And how do you keep people safe, and you know, knock on wood, we've been able to do that. So you have to worry about your, your patrons and the people you bring in. You

01:10:43.739 --> 01:11:19.739
know, it's funny that you talk about the change the changes of the pandemic, because I've one of the things I've recognized even just even in this last week, I am less likely to go out to eat than I used to be. Not because I'm worried about getting COVID. But because I got very good at preparing very good food when we didn't go out. And so my standards have gone up. So I'm not as willing to go have a mediocre meal out if the service is not going to be great in the first start going to be great. I'm like, I'm gonna do better eating here, go home. And people

01:11:19.770 --> 01:11:35.550
people, there's a lot of churches change. Yeah, even in like, I go work in a resort town, one of the theaters I work at, and they even found that people who would come and go out to dinner every night when they are now only going out the first night they were there. And maybe the last night they were there.

01:11:35.550 --> 01:11:42.840
And so people's habits certainly have changed a bit, I think in terms of that. So it does impact arts organizations in that way.

01:11:42.840 --> 01:12:05.340
And people have a, you know, their, their, their routines have changed in that in that sense as well. We also were, we were also figuring out how people's routines would change when they come out. And we're still figuring that out. Because the first year we love the way that work, but we're not sure it can work this, you know, next year, that we go to a certain model of how we present our concerts and things like that.

01:12:05.340 --> 01:12:09.539
So we're, it's we're still it's still evolving for us. Well,

01:12:09.539 --> 01:12:17.909
I mean, if there's anybody that can figure out how to keep improvising and adapting, it's, you know, question about that?

01:12:19.380 --> 01:12:20.909
Well, we'll figure it out.

01:12:19.380 --> 01:12:20.909
Right?

01:12:21.659 --> 01:12:33.750
Well, it actually, is there anything that you can tell us about what may be coming? Can you drop any hints about who might be the next artist? Or is it still a work in progress at this point? I

01:12:33.750 --> 01:13:29.039
can't announce the artists but well, we like what we did last year, this balance of this. And we're you know, last year we had Appalachian road show come in in the summer, big bluegrass concert, and everybody loved them. And then we have a smaller, you know, I almost call it like a living room series of the clap. The classical concert was a small 100 seat. Very intimate. You talk about talking about earlier about this idea of being in the room, being four feet away from these world class musicians who who can play like nobody else can do. And so that's what we did last October. We ended up we had to switch venues. Because of a facility issue. We ended up at the gardens, beautiful acoustics but you were this close to, you know, to two people who were playing we had Wendy Sutter playing cellist from New York who plays in New York Philharmonic and as played was, you know, all over the world.

01:13:29.760 --> 01:13:31.560
And then she even came back for a second. Yeah.

01:13:32.609 --> 01:13:37.260
We took him out on the boat. I remember. Yeah, I got to meet I got to meet that.

01:13:37.439 --> 01:13:43.439
We liked that idea for this year as well. So we had sister Sadie come in about a month ago.

01:13:43.470 --> 01:13:47.100
Love them. Love them. I

01:13:47.100 --> 01:13:50.970
don't know people were walking out of there going like I didn't think you could improve on Appalachian roadshow.

01:13:51.659 --> 01:13:55.409
Amazing. There was a lot of great energy up on that stage.

01:13:55.409 --> 01:14:07.260
And we really appreciated them and they're just a tremendous band. So we thought let's do something. Let's do something small again, for the classical.

01:14:03.329 --> 01:14:18.060
So we're gonna announce that probably in the next week or two, we're gonna do another like 90 to 100 seat event, very special food and drink provided.

01:14:18.270 --> 01:14:21.810
Come see, you know, a classical musician come in and very close.

01:14:22.590 --> 01:15:02.609
Very close, intimate kind of night. One of the we're about to announce a young man who's on the rise, one of the 10 great players coming you know, and so we we haven't signed the contract yet. So we're not going to announce it till we do that, but, but he's going to come in and we're going to have a great intimate concert with food and drink and you'll get to know him and talk with him. What was great about last year was Wendy and she were just so wonderful about talking about what it's like to be a renowned musician and how do you how do you work with composers? What's it like?

01:14:57.779 --> 01:15:46.920
To play this famous piece from Mozart or this, this piece that was written for you by Philip Glass, when he had had all she had, she had a fill of glass, right, a whole album of music for her. That was, I guess, the most successful classical music album or a CD of like, whatever year was that she came out? And so, you know, talked about how do you work with a living composer and someone who's been, you know, who's been dead through the years and this music, you know, and, you know, so it was really wonderful. It wasn't so much a question and answer kind of thing. People could ask questions, but it was kind of like, I'm talking about what you were listening to in the song, why was it written this way? What are the two instruments talking to each other? What's really, you know, what should you be listening to?

01:15:46.920 --> 01:16:07.680
And so we're going to do something like that, where you don't get that kind of, it's like a living room, like you're in someone's living room with these amazing musicians and sort of going like, okay, you know, what can I understand about what's the conversation is happening here? And, and what am I listening for? And why did the musician interpreted this way?

01:16:07.680 --> 01:16:10.380
It's, it was really fun. And so it was a very successful night.

01:16:10.890 --> 01:16:20.369
People said they wanted that again, and they would like to have that again. So we're going to do that in October, it's going to be Saturday, October 5, at the gardens in rolling ball,

01:16:20.399 --> 01:16:23.039
and so that variate is good to know. Yeah,

01:16:23.159 --> 01:16:25.619
yeah, that is the date.

01:16:23.159 --> 01:17:33.689
So that's going to be our second concert for this year. We're already talking about next year, just because we have to, you know, we start planning and some of these bands make their plans very early. And so we're trying to trying to decide what works for us in 2025. The community has stepped up and you know, is saying yes, you know, we had great sponsorship your, your company. And both years, you guys did mystic, Mystic waters farm last year and creative spirits unleashed this year. So I mean, that inspires us because, you know, if you didn't have that you would really struggle to be able to do it, you know, to bring some bring that level of musicianship to our small area that we're pulling people who are coming in from Asheville and Hendersonville and Forest City and you know, we do have people have driven we've got some we have more information about the people come here, you know, some people drive two hours to come here but you know, to pull people in from all over to have 500 people on the beach, you know, on the lake is challenging in a in an area that has 1000 People like you said are 1200 people who live here year round.

01:17:29.819 --> 01:18:05.670
So we you know, we certainly couldn't do it without great sponsorships. Jeff guys alert rumbling bald has been our main sponsor, Lynn Weaver. premier sotheby's Julie McKinney, you know, these people in the community who say like, Hey, we want to help you do what you do so we can help others. It's been amazing. I mean, we have new sponsors this year, we have Chaney brothers came in their food distributor company, enterprise rent a car fleet can United Bank came in. We have a bunch of individuals who have come in, we could, you know, we could talk about all of them.

01:18:05.909 --> 01:18:29.399
But you know, so we have these companies doing it and also individuals who sponsor and our donors that are, you know, the underpin of everything, so that we can bring in, you know, the bands don't come in for free, you know, they they're playing well. My sister Sadie is played the play the Grand Ole Opry, like a week or two ago.

01:18:25.109 --> 01:18:56.220
Appalachian roadshow was just at the Grand Ole Opry. So we're gonna have you're gonna have people of that caliber, or you have people playing at Lincoln Center in New York or playing in Germany or South Korea, they're playing all over the world. You know, you've got to pay them to come in and they love and one of the things I I was talking about in this interview with the mountain breeze is that everybody who's come to Lake lower all want to come back. So that's so

01:18:56.220 --> 01:19:03.329
good. That's a huge measure of Yes, well, and she did like chi Yong came down there like

01:19:03.329 --> 01:20:21.689
let's when can we come back and there's it was funny when talking to the guys from Appalachian roadshow, one of the guy who is the fiddle player for them was he talked about at the concert they were looking out at Lake Laurie so you know, I used to when I was a little kid, I was right there. You know, and I want to come back he says, Can we come back next year you know and you know we'd love to have them back maybe do like a All Star kind of bluegrass thing with them and sister Sadie but you know they want to, they want to come back they like they love for these festivals to work. And if you know our community treats them really well. They you know, you guys took a bunch of missions out on the lake we do like a lake like Lake cruise, sunset cruise. We feed them you know, we do some things that are kind of nice. So they go like this is a great place to come back and work and whether whether it's chamber music or Broadway people like when you're going to have us back which I think is a good says good things about our community. So Good things about the festival the way it's, you know, people in the music business want to come back here. As soon as we finished the sister Sadie concert, their managers like I got a bunch of Acts. So I'd love to have and play play like Laura, they certainly they're getting, we're getting the word out, it's good place to come and get some time. Yeah,

01:20:22.079 --> 01:20:51.659
that is so cool. Well, and that says, I have to say that also says a lot for what they experienced in terms of working with you on the way back because the place is great. But I know as somebody who gets called in to go do events or speeches or whatever the interaction with the venue, the people the, you know, is my room taken care of is, you know, do all the little knits in that so that do they work, you don't go back if it doesn't work. So the fact that they want to come back says a lot for you as well.

01:20:52.380 --> 01:20:58.109
Yeah, those are the those are the details. And certainly Kathy is the details oriented person. So oh

01:20:58.109 --> 01:21:20.279
my goodness. And we have to say, I have to do a shout out for your wife Kathy, because I'm also occasionally a little bit of, I think, an event producer, in terms of doing small retreats and sometimes larger, especially when I corporate clients helping me Cafe used to produce 400 events a year, we

01:21:20.279 --> 01:21:25.380
did a couple a couple years we counted and it was one year was five 511. Okay,

01:21:25.500 --> 01:21:56.609
so still can't even imagine, just do your do your math people that are listening 365 days a year. And that's way more than one a day. And that means they had to have many of them happening simultaneously on the same day. That means you're really good at asking for help really good at hiring great people that help you pull things together. And when you call her earlier, a world class event producer, You're not kidding. So big shout out for that capability. And what she brings to the table, it's

01:21:56.609 --> 01:22:02.189
good to have someone in my ear who's very detail oriented, so it helps keep me on point, certainly details,

01:22:02.220 --> 01:22:10.439
they matter so much I'm preparing right now to go do a big speech. Luckily, up here in the mountains, I'm only going to have to drive not have to fly these days, I don't want to fly.

01:22:11.159 --> 01:22:30.329
But you know, they've got a really cool system where I'm inputting all my details, you know, they want my social media stuff, they want some pictures, you know, it's pretty cool, what's what's happened over the last few years of getting signed up, kind of, like when you signed up for this podcast, we have like a link and you pull everything in, and I don't have to chase it, and they are not having to chase me,

01:22:31.590 --> 01:23:44.880
it takes a lot of work to get get that stuff out there, you know, yeah, to do to do the social media stuff to do your websites and to do you know, to set up the ticket, you know, the ways to do things to get people there, you know, in marketing, you know, marketing are interesting now, because you're you know, we do a lot of stuff on on social media. And you know, we're not of the age that we are social media experts, but you learn quickly because you have to, and it is kind of exciting that you put something out there and you you get the analytics and you know, you've reached 5000 6000 7000 people a certain way or whatever. And you You know, I couldn't tell you, it's kind of like looking under the engine of your, your car, hood. And kind of I don't know how it works, but it seems to work. And, you know, it's, you know, it's fascinating to look at, even though it's not an X, you know, anything we're expert at, but it's kind of interesting to look at how do you fill in the pieces to get people to know about what you're doing? You know, and whether you reach into I like doing there, I like doing the radio programs, I like doing it. I don't think I've ever done a podcast before but I do like, you know, this interaction, you know, I've been on radio stations, and it's fun to interact with people and stuff.

01:23:41.760 --> 01:23:51.960
And if that reaches people old school, which is radio, you know, radio is an old school medium, which I've always loved.

01:23:47.939 --> 01:23:54.689
You know, it's, you know, it's a nice way to reach the community.

01:23:51.960 --> 01:24:00.689
And I guess all the radio stations now have cameras in there. So they're on Facebook and, and doing and doing social media. So I know

01:24:00.689 --> 01:25:00.060
I had to pay attention because I've done a couple of radio interviews at the same place that you've been to as one of your venues dan in Forrest City. Or rather for 10 I guess and I had to remember that the camera was on while I was talking on the radio writer viewer, right because there's there's things you need to pay attention to when you're on camera. But you know what I've learned with this podcasting thing. To me this is a little bit like radio in that if you go in if you get in my car right now, every single day I've got podcasts teed up for my drives, I actually don't listen to music then once in a while I do but but for the most part for me to pass time I like to listen to conversations. Interestingly enough, I don't like to listen to audiobooks either. You know, I'm from an area era of learning to read ever have had a book going since I could read I don't remember not having a book going that I read every single day.

01:24:55.560 --> 01:25:29.670
But my eyes like like my my I have a vivid imagination I can, my eyes will take me in to that to the place and I really go inhabit the place. If I try to listen, it's just doesn't do the same thing. Although listening to a podcast is just wonderful for me. So talk radio evidently was my thing. And now they've become talk radio. But rather than having to listen to whoever happened to be on talking at the time, I get a lot more choice about who I'm listening to.

01:25:30.479 --> 01:26:21.779
That's true. And I remember one growing up, you know, my, we listened to talk radio, even sharing with Larry King, before he was even a national figure, he was based out of Miami, and he had a great, he had great shows, and it was all these wonderful hosts down there who could really talk about just about anything, and there was kind of about four or five of the best talk radio people came out of that, that area, and we would listen to them growing up. I remember listening to, you know, a bunch of people on long drives, cross country drives and stuff. And so yeah, I see it the same way that the podcast is kind of extended talk radio, you know, yeah, and a little more focused, because you can pick and choose what you want to, and there's certainly a lot of options. But it is like, it's like old school, talk radio, just a little more refined with, you know, doing it with the technology and choosing what you want to listen to.

01:26:20.220 --> 01:26:21.779
Well,

01:26:21.779 --> 01:26:29.789
and that's the there's like two sides to that, because the technology has almost made the gatekeepers obsolete.

01:26:30.270 --> 01:27:29.010
Whether it be in self publishing a books, or what we're talking about here with your music festival, you know, promoting your music festival, social media gives us all an ad chance to go out and market our own books and what, or events or whatever. And what I learned in that is, you're kind of expected to bring your own audience, you know, not no longer is a book publisher, for example, saying, Oh, I pick you land, and now I will make you famous. They're like, I'm picking you land, because you are already famous and bringing us an audience. And so you know that that pace, you mentioned earlier about the role that we play of promoting, and getting it out in social media and letting people know what's going on and getting word of mouth? I've come to really recognize the value of what you said about the artists, do they want to come back? Do they want to tell their friends about you?

01:27:24.149 --> 01:27:37.140
You know, if we're to really get the word out, it's like, how do you get the people who loved it to tell their friends so more people can hear. And that's how we grow it.

01:27:37.529 --> 01:28:58.829
Perhaps being a good generous host works in many ways. Not just at your home, but also on a podcast. But yeah, people, people like to come back to places where they're valued and respected. And, you know, we were talking earlier, you know, being a good listener, you know, is a skill that certainly we all could get better at, you know, and, and a man, being a good listener is part of that, and I'm sure being a podcast host is part of that, you know, in terms of being a good host, and, and having someone on as being a good listener and, and being curious, right, and I think those kinds of skills, translate everywhere, you know, and so whether any kind of work force or any place, or being a good friend, right, is being a good listener, and, and not, you know, not needing to have the focus on yourself or talking, you know, about what's going on with you is that there are times to be a good listener, and it's nice when someone's a good listener to you, right? We certainly appreciate that, in terms of people just asking, how are you? And and how are you doing? And, and what's going on with you, you know, and so I'd imagine that translates to not only here, but elsewhere, people value that now. Because you know, there are lots of platforms now live, and feels like they can talk somewhere.

01:28:55.890 --> 01:29:03.270
And the impersonal part of social media doesn't work when people can't talk to each other.

01:29:03.720 --> 01:29:09.750
And so I would say that's a skill everybody can develop is being curious and being a good listener. And

01:29:09.750 --> 01:29:28.260
isn't that aren't those two of the like, core elements of improvisation? Yeah, they are. The most brilliant improvisation I've seen is when they caught like this really promising thread that might not be really obvious and take off with that beautiful thread. And I love I love that, well,

01:29:28.260 --> 01:29:45.359
we're having a conversation rather than you're interviewing me, or, you know what I'm saying? It's like, I'm sure that makes it more palatable, because, you know, it's gonna go where it's gonna go, but you have to be a good listener. I'm not You're not thinking about what you're saying. Next. You're listening.

01:29:42.000 --> 01:29:47.729
You're being a good listener. So I'd say that's important. For sure. Yeah.

01:29:48.029 --> 01:30:00.000
I don't know that I could do the interviewing thing. And you know, where I learned to do this, by the way, it's when I was a banker. Oh, okay. Because they would train us to go in and find out what was going on with the business and stuff.

01:30:00.000 --> 01:30:28.319
Sometimes these were difficult conversations, because, you know, it was like, where are your financial statements? Or why are your financial statements showing that you're suddenly losing money and you need to pay us back and, you know, just having to gain a lot of data. And they the way they trained us to interview I hate it, because it felt like an interrogation. Right. And what I began to learn to do was just have a list of things I needed to know and go in and have a conversation with the person.

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And then at the end of the conversation, did I find out everything I needed to know?

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Right? And then ask any questions that were left over.

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And so it kept me in the flow. I like being I like the I like conversation a lot more than sure.