#76 Stevie Delahunt: A Teacher of Grit on Her Tevis Cup Experience

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Welcome to Creative Spirits Unleashed, where we talk about the dilemmas of balancing work and life and now here's your host, Lynn Carnes,

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welcome to the Creative Spirits Unleash Podcast. I'm Lynn Carnes, your host for this episode, I have a returning guest in Stevie Delahunt. Now you may remember she was on my podcast last November. We had met at the journey on podcast Summit, and immediately realized that we were kindred spirits.

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And frankly, I just realized I wanted to learn to be like Stevie, because she is such a brave and daring woman. Now, I had to have her back right now, because she just completed the Tevis cup. This is something I had never heard of when I met her, and then I came to realize it is an epic, 100 mile endurance ride on horses on the western states trail in California, it's legendary. Only 50% of the entrance complete this full race, and this year, only 40% of the riders made it.

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What they say under the banner Stevie was one of those riders, along with three other riders competing on her horses. It was an incredible 24 hours for them, which is what we talked about in this conversation. We explored lots of things, including what it takes to ride for almost 24 hours through some of the most difficult trails you can find anywhere if you're a regular listen to this podcast, though you know that we had to explore the mental side of the game, as well as the physical preparation that it takes to do such an amazing feat. She shared what it was like in the dark moments.

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And I mean literally dark moments, because about a third of this ride is done after the sun's down, and actually they start before the sun even comes up. Things she did to be present with herself and to be present with her horse. She talked a little bit about what it was to almost be a recovering planner, and recognizing that you really have to accept what comes on a ride like this, because there's just no way to predict what's going to happen. She also gave her perspective on fear, on intuition and how she makes decisions when the stakes are really high. In the end, I've concluded, and I think we might have even talked about this on the on the podcast, that Stevie is a teacher of grit. I know she's helped me find more resilience and courage than I knew I had, and we talk a little bit on this podcast about a couple of experiences we've had together over the last year, particularly one in this last June, where I actually came off a horse again. And for many of you who've listened, you know, a lot of my journey around building resilience, courage and grit has come from a fall I had in 2017 off of a horse. Now here's what Stevie says about herself. She graduated from Michigan State University with two degrees and an intent to pursue law or sorry law school at Georgetown University, where she'd been accepted, she switched gears and went to French pastry School of Chicago to learn how to do wedding cakes and set up shop in the Windy City. While in Chicago, she learned of the world's toughest horse race, the Mongol Derby, which ironically, is starting just this Thursday. And she again left her life guide her into constant change. On the other side of successfully completing the Mongol Derby, she took a job with a startup company in Rhode Island and learned coding and marketing for the online business. The endeavor in the world of startups gave her strong leadership skills. I can I can attest to that, and in education and business models, she applied to starting her second and current business of horse related retreats. Her current business encompasses several facets of the horse world, including beginner riding instruction, advanced boot camp style retreats for riders wishing to participate in difficult horse riding, survival races around the world, horse shoeing and endurance racing with horses, including doing the world's toughest one day, 100 mile horse race, the Tevis cup.

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Stevie believes that adversity is a necessary part of life, and being prepared for adversity, as well as creating it for oneself, is essential, and is a tool she uses in teaching both horses and humans, both young and old.

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Well, I can attest to all of that because I've been to one of her endurance boot camps now I've watched her shoe the horses, and I've cheered her on through the completion of the Tevis cup, and we talk a lot about that in this podcast. So I hope you enjoy this episode with Stevie Dale hunt. Stevie dalah Hunt, welcome to the creative spirits unleash podcast. Thank

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you so so much for having me again. I really appreciate it.

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Well, I the whole time that I was following you on Tevis, I was thinking, I gotta have Stevie back on the podcast.

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I don't know if there's some kind of like rules out there in the in the universe that says who can be on your podcast and when and how. Often. But I just decided, whatever they are, I'm breaking them because I have to hear about this 24 hour. And really it's much longer than a 24 hour adventure that you had with Alex on this amazing ride.

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So just before we like, the first question, I wanted to say is just tell me kind of your basic or not basic, your your experience of tennis, like, tell me. Let's just start talking about that. You just finished.

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What was it a week a couple of weeks ago? We'll say, yeah,

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about two weeks ago now.

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Yeah, I had one of the most amazing experiences, I think one of the, probably the experience that people would sign up to have, like, what they imagine their Tesla should be. And I think that was a little bit because I actually let go of the idea of it being anything at all, you know, like, I obviously wanted to get across the finish line, but I kept kind of repeating the mantra, ride the horse you have on the trail, you have in the moment, which is like, basically being extremely present. Because I wouldn't even try, you know, they say, just, just try to get to your next check. Like, don't even plan to the end. Like, plan, like when you're cut off, is get to the next cut off and your next check. And I didn't even do that. I was like, ride this exact moment on this exact trail, make the best decision in the moment for what you have, and somehow that got us through kind of just ahead of cut offs.

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I mean, we ride our horses. Our horses do a lot more miles than most horses do, so that means really just taking every ride like a training ride. So I'm not going there to win. I'm going there to finish, which aerc, the American endurance ride Conference, which is the governing body of rides like Tevis has the saying to finish is to win, which is awesome, because it's a little bit like saying the journey is what it's about. And that's really I've shifted over time for being a pretty competitive person to just being in competition with myself, and competition with the idea of really doing what's best for the horse, not what's best for my ego. So for that, it's been slowing down quite a bit, especially because I'm also often riding in a group of 10s.

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And what I mean by that is that's five horses and five riders. Or this Tevis. We had four horses and four riders, so you are only as fast as the slowest of the age of you, and takes a little bit of it takes a bit of finesse. And I guess this Tevis experience was truly magical, because I was super present, and I felt so Alex.

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Alex Alex has the horse we're talking now is Alexander Hamilton. That's the worst that I wrote at us. And he has an alter ego, which we call the cocaine bear, very feisty, and he can be really kind of a handful in big crowds of horses.

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However, every time I've ridden him in an endurance race. He is super well behaved, and it was no different for this Tevis. He handled everything beautifully.

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So luckily, when I ride him, the cocaine bear goes away and he's just a teddy bear, and he was exactly that. So having him give me his absolute best self was amazing. All the horses know what Tevis is like. They know where they are when they're at the start. They understand the whole course. I mean, they got super excited when they're close to all the tracks like Forest Hill. They start cantering up the hill on bath road because they knew it was their stop.

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They wanted to canter into Robinson flat. That's the other hour hold. They wanted to they definitely canter to the finish line, until we ran into a line of riders walking to the finish line. But they were ready. They knew that, course. So it was such a beautiful experience of having a team of eight all with the same goal, and the horses just really knowing their job and really wanting to perform well, and taking it so seriously and just communicating so well with us, like I felt like I was in connection with all four of our horses, and just got to speak to Alex through the whole ride, and just had the beautiful experience of just getting to tell him how much that meant to me, because he's doing it for me, like, I think they enjoy it and everything, but at a certain point it becomes very difficult for them, just like, yeah, for us, but having to push through that space where it's not necessarily like fun anymore.

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Maybe you know it's really hard, and you're they're facing the adversity of being tired and hungry and being like, you know, letting having trust make up that difference. Because he, Alex knows, like, he gets the young world take care of him. We have that. We've built that over years. He knows exactly what the routine is. So he had that trust that I was going to do the best thing for him and take care of him. And that was just such a cool, cool experience to like, watch how much he was willing to give me. And I'm going to try not to cry to say this, but I remember or cry when I say this.

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But when I saw Dylan at the finish, I was just like, I didn't know that this. Horse would give me everything, like, I really is, like, he's a war horse, like, I think he would have died for me, and that was, like, the amazing moment of being like, we had so much trust in each other that he was willing to give everything, probably to the point of, like, really injuring himself, which we never went there. But I think that's the fun thing, is that he's willing to do that, and then I can see that and really be a guardian of that, and not push beyond like it would be so easy to take more from him, because he's offering it so willingly. And I think that our trust and our friendship is really strong, because I don't take more than he's, you know, than I should. And so I just like, I probably went a bit slower and more carefully than I would if I was being competitive, but overall, that left me with a horse that had more gas in the tank at the finish and and that has that trust in me, like he'll continue to offer all of that all the time, because he knows I'll never take advantage of him, which is really cool, and

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what that makes me think of is Josh Nichols. I heard him say once he's a horseman, that, from a horse's point of view, do not take what is mine to give.

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And that give and take of like the horse wants to give to you, and it it took me immediately to places where I've been in work situations or other situations with people where I felt like they were trying to take what was mine to give. And it's almost like it's demotivating when someone does that. And it feels to me like what you and Alex had was a partnership where he was willingly giving it to you, not giving it to you. Oh, well, because you ask, you know, it was truly a partnership.

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Yeah, it was, I mean, along the lines of it being so special, it was really great too. I was really grateful for my body showing up that day. I don't think this is the most fit I've ever come to a Tevis as but, oh, sorry, joking there, but I was able to get off and walk the canyons with him, and I think he could have carried me probably, but this was a extremely hot tub. So I'll back up a little bit and say, as far as the experience, it was extremely challenging, but just enough challenge so that it was a productive struggle, and we came out the other side of all the challenges. And that's like tennis. It should be really hard, right? That and persevering the adversity is what's so fun about it. And we had exactly the right amount of challenge, I feel like, where we could just overcome it all. And one of those things was, it was one of the hottest Tevis is that's ever been on record. And I was riding a very large horse that's not all Arabian, which means his heart rate is not, doesn't, recovers. And for those of you who don't know about Tevis, the horses welfare is, I mean, for all endurance horse welfare is very important, and in Tevis, you have a check basically every 10 miles, and the horse needs to pass a trotting inspection to make sure it's not lame. They're checking hydration, gut sounds, all these parameters, but if you can imagine, the humans that run these Ultras would never pass these checks. They have to run not lame, and they have to have their heart rate come down in a certain amount of time. And this year, one of the biggest reasons for polls was heart rate, and that's because of the heat.

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Additionally, we didn't have ice out on course, which I feel like we've had in the past. And I may be wrong, but the water, because it was so hot, all the water we had to sponge and cool horses, was actually hot itself, like which made it really hard, and there was no breath of wind, so cooling horses was very difficult. So I thought, if I can help Alex out, I'm gonna get off and walk. And so I walked up the canyons and ran with him in the dark. There was one check Francisco's, which is the furthest I've ever made it in Tevis before, which is 85 miles.

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And Alex looked amazing, but his heart rate, he passed the heart rate, who's at 64 which is the absolute highest that can be, and be okay, at that point in the race. It's 60 at the beginning, and goes to 64 towards the end. And they do a thing where they have you trot out, trot back, and then they take your heart rate again, and that's called a CRI, and it's basically seeing like how steady the heart rate is staying to make sure the horse is doing okay. And he had an inverted CRI, which means his heart rate went above 64 after the trot, to mean that he was getting tired or hot. But again, this is a horse that's half standard bred, half Arabian, large bodied. He's quite heavy. We went into this race with extra pounds on him, which I do think was helpful, but not helpful towards his heart rate. And I did that trot out in the vet was like, I mean, he I also trotted him very fast, because he has a beautiful, really powerful trot. And I really wanted to show that he was. Lame and feeling good, and I probably shouldn't have trotted so fast, because it put his heart rate up. But the vet was like, well, he's eating. He looks bright. Everything looks amazing, except for his heart rate being inverted. He passed the check by being at 64 but the vet was a little uncertain. And I said, Listen, I will be on foot from here to Laura Corey, I'm going to feed him, and we were close to the cut off out of there, so I couldn't stay any longer and let him eat and relax. And I just had that conversation with the vet, and the vet let me go and trusted me, which was amazing, because full circle at the finish line.

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He was our finish line bet. So I went to him, and he is, Alex's heart rate was 56 at the finish, which was awesome, well below the 64 and I got to thank that bet for having trust in me and knowing that I would do what I said. So kind of just like all these cool like synchronicities and like chasing the cut offs was kind of part of it. And having adversity is out there on trail and and, but having the tools to overcome them was the coolest thing. Like, I think that was the fun thing. It was like, I got to test everything in my tool bag, use absolutely every bit of it, and came out the other side being like, these tools actually work. Like everything, the mental, the physical, for myself, for the horses, like the resiliency, they had to do things on their own, like we got we separated a few times in the canyons, and everyone was fine. All the riders took, listen to the advice and followed it exactly, and the horses did exactly what they were supposed to do. And it's just like, very cool to, like, have the trial by fire, and everything you've put in place works, that's an amazing feeling.

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So could you describe just you don't have to give your whole thing here, but like you mentioned, tools to overcome the challenges. And I, I, I'm an artist, and what I learned, pretty much in my first experience with art, whether it's in the clay studio or with my watercolors is I can have the same tools that another watercolorist or potter have, and they're mine to use, kind of in my own way. So it's kind of amazing, because you've got somebody that may have 20 brushes, and they use all 20 brushes, and somebody else, like me, usually, who uses only, like five, but with you know, really well. And so to me, tools are what are in the hands of the user. Of them is my point. Tell me a little bit about some of the your mental tools and your physical tools that help make it through some of that. Because I'm picturing, you know, I followed you. I'm picturing you guys. I said, What was it? Half the ride was in the dark, um,

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a little less than um, so I think it gets dark, basically, 9pm so we start in the dark, yeah, the start is always a very stressful spot, because it's 160 horses that are ready to go 100 miles, standing on a drop off road like truly Cliff drop off. And they have to stand there and behave like, Wait, not move like we begin in pens. There's pen one for the pastor horses, which we were in, and then pen two with the rest.

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So the reason they do that is single track for the first six miles, and you can't pass it's drop off single track, so they want to put the 60 fastest horses in the front, yeah, and it works pretty well. But the pens can be really scary, because there's all these horses circling in the dark and the dust, and it's like very bad footing, and so you're circled around. There's always people coming off horses in the dark.

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So that's a scary point. And we, the four of us, were just trying to stay together, because you can also get really you can get separated. So one of our amazing crew members who is possibly going to ride Tevis, ended up crewing for us as Becky. And she was telling us, like, you guys have to have a sound off so you can find each other. So the whole joke for the day was we would go Eenie, meenie, miney moe for the four of us, which would help us laugh. So anyways, we were saying that in the dark.

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Anyhow, we start in the dark, but by the time you're actually

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15am it is light, so you're really just riding in the

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30pm until you finish the next morning at five.

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So there's, I mean, it's a fair amount of dark time writing, but about a third of the course, I would say, is in the dark. So,

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so I'm picturing, though you really do have to reach just exam, just that story you just said. You have to have some mental tools to keep yourself composed. Under those circumstances, it's dark, the footing is bad. You're trying to stay together. It's easy to lose each other. The people are coming off. You're about to go on a single track trail with a drop off. You know, that's a lot to carry. How do you at the very beginning, before you've even taken off, you're in that circumstance. What do you do?

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And what do you tell your other riders to do to keep themselves composed?

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Yeah, that's a good one.

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I mean, that's kind of before we started recording this podcast.

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We were talking about intentions for the podcast, and I was saying, I mean, I feel like Tevis is just sort of a metaphor for what I do, which is try to create mental tools for sentience, for the horses and the people that do things like and Tevis is definitely that. So like figuring out what tools to give people and how far and how hard you can push people on horses my whole life, right there. So Tevis is a really good example of what I do, the tools that I give you know, like I'm never certainly the right ones trying to disseminate the right amount of information to the riders so they feel prepared, but not overwhelm them, and also not project kind of your own experience of things to other people. Because, I mean, yet, of course, you only have your own perspective of of of things, but I try not to, like, push my own fears or worries onto riders and just trying to give them just enough information. But also, like, leave a lot open ended, because it's going to be their own experience and and there's quite a lot. Like, we had two new riders, one who'd never done 100 mile ride before, and one who had done 100 mile ride with us, but this was her second 100 mile completion. So you know, new 200 mile ride riders, and new to Tevis riders. So let me quickly say that who the riders were so myself, and then Carmen Jackson, who's amazing. She's one of my very best friends.

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She's the most positive, wonderful human being ever, and she now has four out of four Tevis finishes on our horses. So she's completed Tevis four times. So I actually looked to her. So she was one of the tools I had in my bag. Was a positive light that knew exactly what she was doing. And it worked out perfectly. I put her on hero, who she loves, because hero's our best lead horse. So it made sense for her to lead the group and make the calls. Understands the trail the best and on the horse that wants to lead. So her and I swapped back and forth between leading, but for the most part, her and hero led a lot of our ride, and then we had Jesse Dowling, who rode, who trained with us for the Mongol Derby, and rode Chuck Norris.

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And then we had Sally Melendrez, who I cannot I knew the other girls would be fine, but Sally was like, is somebody that I've gotten to know more and more.

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She came to one of our boot camps in one of my clinics, and I feel like I often almost overestimate people's grit and hardly ever underestimate it, because I kind of feel like I see the light in people. And she was amazing. She had so much grit, and I totally feel so vindicated by having chosen her as the fourth rider, she did an absolutely incredible job, and she rode Sonic, our apple is Arabian, anyhow. So I had these two new riders, and was trying to instill tools. And really the biggest thing I said was just, you know, that be present, be in the moment, and really read your horse and and be ready to do this on your own. You know, we stuck. We actually stuck together as a group better than groups have previously in Tevis.

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But I think that's because everyone brought their full self and their full ability to the equation. And it's a little bit, maybe, like they say, in relationships, you're not half of the relationship. You're your whole, a whole person in a relationship. And it was a little bit at for Tevis, like each person showed up with all their skills at hand and ready to do it alone. And because you are ready to do it alone, it's that paradox that, in fact, then it all comes together.

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It's like a marriage, isn't it? It's like the best partner in marriage is someone who can stand on their own, but, but but because of that, they can bring their full selves.

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Exactly

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one of the things I wanted to ask about the Be present is, I think that's a question. I get this question a lot from people I work with in in coaching, especially in when we're talking corporate leadership there. But when, when I say to be present, most people are like, but how?

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And one of the things you said at the very beginning was, be with the horse that I'm on today, at this not just, not just today, but at this very moment. What? What are your what? How do you know when you're not present and, and what do you do to to get back there?

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Because I kind of think it's always a game of going in and out. I don't know that we're ever completely always present, but we are kind of dancing that line off and on all the time.

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Does that make sense? Yeah. You do that.

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Yeah. Um. And. Mean, it's funny, because I am famous for doing that past and future self. So, like, there's, you know, when people are writing things like Tevis or the Mongol Derby, I have that thing that, when you're, like, wanting to quit or give up, you can, you can draw on, hey, what did past me do to get me here? What would pass me think about the I'm about to make? And then also, what is future me going to say if I give up right now? You know, like you really have to consult the past you and the future you when things are tough in the present. But paradoxically, that's sort of bumping you out. Using your mind to leave the present moment, which sometimes in really difficult things, is maybe necessary. You have to, like, disconnect a little bit. If you're suffering a lot in the moment, it's maybe time to play, use your mind as a positive tool, and time travel a little bit. So

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self talk, yeah, the cell you make, basically you just described how to make the self talk work for you, because we get out of the present moment with that self talk. Yeah, this is too hard. I don't know if I can do this. A cup of tea would be really nice right now. And you're just using it in a way to say, This is what your future self is going to say to you if you quit right now,

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exactly it's use, you know, if the tool is going to keep showing up, make it work for you instead of work against you. And that's probably one of my favorite things. And of course, something I've told those riders as well. But as far as being present, I said, when you have to make decisions about what to do, you can also really, really check back into the situation. Because, you know, there everyone I'm I used to be like a type A planner for things, and horses and endurance has really taught me to throw that out the window like I didn't even the chagrin of my best friend, Mallory, who is also my head crew this year.

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She's like, got her like, I mean, she's wonderful. She has spreadsheets about everything, and she's so organized. And I couldn't live without her, because she is so organized for me, like she helps me with my business, everything, and I'm so like, not that person anymore.

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And I think when it's actually out in those situations, in the field, it really does help me a lot to, like, have a loose plan, but be very open to changing it.

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Because I think when you have a plan, you you're so you're emotionally committed to it. So like, an example is, we're going to electrolyte the horses at these certain points. Um, well, even as calling the riders, like, Hey, this is when we they were like, what? When exactly should we electrolyte? That was like, a big question, and I felt so bad. I'm so like, wishy washy, because I was like, okay, instead of me telling you when to electrolyte, I'm going to tell you what each of these electrolytes does. So I was like, this one, the BCAA, so branched chain amino acids, is going to help your horse have a energy boost in about 30 minutes after you give it. So you're going to want to read your horse and, and I was kind of going through the electrolytes like that, right? Like, there were four different types that we're carrying. And I was like, This is what each one does. You read the situation. I was like, on your but on their cards. I like, loosely, like, said, they'll probably need it here. They'll probably need it here. Well, now that, like Hiro had energy the entire time. I mean, I think hero would have been happy to top 10. Tevis, he had quite a lot of energy, and was doing great all day. Chuck had a lot of energy. Alex struggled more because of the heat, so actually borrowed some electrolytes from people. But I was super glad that I'd had that conversation with them, because I think just that little conversation about when to use electrolytes and for what really opened them to like, hey, I need to read the situation, not just like, robotically follow a plan, because nothing goes to plan.

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Over 100 miles with 160 horses on a dangerous trail, right?

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Like nothing ever goes to plan.

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So you have to be really present and like, what is actually happening, and like, just like humans show up as their different selves, right? Like, you can come into work and be like, I'm gonna pitch this idea to my boss, and you can read if you had decided, you know, I'm gonna pitch this plan no matter what, because it's the plan. And you then you totally shut down your emotional reading and you don't realize your boss is not in the good place to hear this pitch for this plan or this promotion that you want to have like that's you know you need to, like, read the situation so and but when we're stressed and we're falling back into our our sympathetic nervous state, we might want To just cling to that plan, because we can't think that it is really and going back to intuition that actually bumps us back into parasympathetic going back into, like, I need the situation that actually forces us to calm ourselves, calm down and, like, put out those emotional feelers. So there's a couple of things working together in harmony to make the situation better, which is like you're trying you have to be embarrassing, but that parasympathetic to think and then thinking and reading and becoming emotional is actually going to connect you to the situation in a way that's much more functional than if you're just sticking to a plan and allowing yourself to. Day in a sympathetic, nervous state. That makes sense.

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It makes a lot of sense.

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I've actually found in myself, you know, I've been working with some feral horses down at rain rescue, which I'm on the board of, and I started discovering I use the word agenda, because what I've discovered is, whenever I start having an agenda for the horse. It's really, first of all, they feel it. They show me they feel it and it. It puts a wall between us, but it also shows me that I'm attached to some outcome, rather than dancing with the horse. And I started calling that my healthy mommy syndrome.

00:30:38.359 --> 00:31:11.279
Because the reason I call it helping mommy, because it's like me trying to fix the situation so that I don't have to feel bad about it not going according to my plan or my agenda. And then it's not about what does the horse need in this moment, but what I need in this moment to feel good about myself. And so discovering that little thing has been so useful because it's like, what is on me and what's not on me, right? And most of the time, I'm taking up something that I'm trying to take up, a horse of slack that I shouldn't be trying to take up.

00:31:11.819 --> 00:31:36.619
But it's not because of them, it's because of me, because I need it for me, my helping mommy self. So we've, we've, that's one of the things I've really been working on is, you know, being able to work with a horse without my agenda being attached, and just being able to observe and say, Okay, that's what happens when I do this, or that's what happens when they move here, you know, as opposed to, oh, I didn't want that, and I gotta fix it, yeah,

00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:42.339
it's, it's Amazing how horses help us just see ourselves.

00:31:44.078 --> 00:31:46.058
There's such good mirrors.

00:31:44.078 --> 00:32:21.979
And as I'm listening to you describe how you had everybody reading, it's so different, because this is also I have, like, an inner, you know, good little girl that wants to please the teacher. Where's where that stuff came from. And I can imagine that if you tell someone, okay, they need their branch, chain amino acids at this particular stop or at this particular place on the trail, and they did it because you told them that when it wasn't the right time, then they're not going to have as good a shot of having the horse and them feel good throughout the ride and making it to the end as it would when you say, Hey, this is what to watch for. Here's a tool. Use it as you see fit.

00:32:23.180 --> 00:34:37.699
Yeah, yeah. You know another sorry. That just jogged my memory to that I said to them that I I didn't think about it till now. Was another, another spot was, I was telling them, when you're doing this trail, there are going to be times where you feel that you should not be asking a horse to do this, that it feels way beyond what's okay, and that they're really fine, because they've done this like I was counting the horses all have about three buckles now for Tevis, so they've done this ride and completed it successfully and been Fine. And I remember saying that at the beginning, but I remember moments like Sally and I were at the back in the canyons, and she was like, I think Sonics really tired and and I remember now thinking like that was, you know, there's those moments where you truly question asking the horses to do this stuff, but it's like, I'm going to go on a tangent now, but being a bit of a runner and an ultra runner, I think that my perspective is a little bit a little bit different and helpful for endurance, in that I can totally push myself to run and have moments where I want to feel like I'm going to pass out, But I recover, like I'm just fine in about 10 minutes and and I think I'm a lot more comfortable pushing people and horses, because I push myself constantly. And I realized that, like that adversity is actually a space of growth and a feeling of accomplishment. And I remember telling myself that many times, like I had a couple moments that I was so grateful for that 50k that I ran last year. This 50k around was 31 miles. I only got to train the 18 miles because I didn't have any time to train for it. And I did end up finishing just under the time I wanted to for those 50k but the last six miles of my run were truly horrendous. I I was, I've never been in that state of mind. It was so hard, probably the hardest I've done physically in a long time. And I was walking up the canyons, breathing super hard, walking with Alex, and I was thinking, this is way easier than that 50k

00:34:39.139 --> 00:34:41.139
there's a mental tool for you. Comparison,

00:34:41.918 --> 00:36:40.278
totally I had that and then I also was like, but I pushed myself that hard and was shaking and felt like I was going to vomit for those last six miles. But I crossed the finish line, and right before the finish line, I remember randomly had all this energy to, like, run across and look really cool when I finished. And I was like, wow. So my mind was preserved. My body for those last six miles, I actually had more to give. And immediately after crossing the line, like I sat down with Dylan and the dog and had something to eat, but that was totally fine. And having that knowledge of what our body and minds tell us was also helpful. And being able to push the horses, because Sonic was looking a little tired, his muscles start quivering just a little bit, which is not a great sign, and we electrolyted him with the right electrolytes, and then he came out of it. He was totally recovered. All our horses actually rode really fast in the dark because we took it so carefully through the canyons. And it was just a really good moment of realizing, like you can push Sentients to complete exhaustion if they have the physical and mental tools to bounce back from that. And yeah, they covered so quickly. That was what was great. And you know, I was stressing about heart rates the whole time with Alex, but didn't realize the whole time people were getting pulled left and right for heart rates. And actually, looking back on my card, Alex was at 60 at a lot of the stops and the in the cut off was 64 so all these tools, all these things I was doing, like being off and not on him, and like just trying to help him out, going slower than maybe other people would have in the canyons actually really paid off. And, yeah, it's just such an interesting, interesting space to occupy, where you have trust, maybe in your own program and and that being like the physical physicality of the horses, so their ability to recover, and the mental fortitude that the horses have, that resiliency, where they can be okay with being asked to really push themselves and still trust that we have their best interest at heart. That's like a really cool spot

00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:59.679
that isn't, well, that's the true role of somebody who puts themselves in the space of being a mentor or a coach. And, you know, I've looked at, I think it's the Navy SEAL say that it when we think our when our minds say we are at our max, there's 40% left in the tank.

00:36:56.380 --> 00:36:59.679
Yeah, I've

00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:01.559
heard that too, and

00:37:01.559 --> 00:37:43.360
that's stunning. But I've, I've tested it a few times. I don't know if I've ever taken myself, you know, to complete exhaustion or to complete to the edge, but I heard something. I heard an interesting story. It was told by Josh Waitzkin, who was the, he was the kid in searching for Bobby Fisher. So he was a chess master, and then he went to become a Tai Chi Push Hands world champion. And he, in talking about his training, said that he would train to the point of being gassed, because there was, I think I'm going to get the time wrong, but let's say there's 30 seconds between rounds or something, or maybe it's two minutes, but he wanted to recover in 30 seconds, but it for the sake of the story.

00:37:41.139 --> 00:37:43.360
Timing doesn't really matter.

00:37:43.360 --> 00:38:50.920
What he did train to do. He said what I actually was training my body to do was to go full out so that I did not have to hold anything in reserve in every round, because I could trust that with that break in the round I could recover. And I think that's when I first started recognizing how important recovery is. It's like, well, if I and I actually do this with my water skiing, it's like, I know when I can, like, really push myself, because I know I'm going to give myself the day off tomorrow. So yeah, it's like, like, go ahead and do that. And this actually happened to me a couple of days ago. It's like, I did not I was skiing harder than normal, and I did not know on that sixth pass if I was going to even be able even be able to hold on, but I was like, You're not going to have to hold on tomorrow, so just go and again. I probably still had 40% in the tank, but that's what I'm hearing in your story, is having that wisdom and belief in someone else to truly be a coach and a mentor to them, you know, and then provide the support so that you can also ask more of them. I think is that's an amazing and very tricky balance.

00:38:51.940 --> 00:39:35.539
I feel that that was like the underlying theme of this year's Tevis, as we talk about it, is trust. It was like trust in my own body, trust in the tools that had in place, trust in the horse and the horses trust in us, favorite moments, which I'm sure Jesse will chat about, but I it, it sounds maybe strange, but I think anyone who's been a teacher or student can understand this. Like, I think being coachable is such an amazing skill because it means you're like, very open to like shifting your own paradigms, and open to like believing and trusting in other people. And we walked down the first Canyon, which I meant to have that toughest thing in front of me, because I always forget the name of the Canyons the first Canyon, the second one is El Dorado, but the first Canyon walked

00:39:35.780 --> 00:39:50.619
that picture you sent for people in my blog, so that people can see the ups and downs. Because I was going to ask you, how many miles of these canyons that you're talking about, of the 100 miles, how many of the miles were what you call the canyons?

00:39:51.400 --> 00:40:03.360
Um, I mean for the most part, really, last chance to Forest Hill is Canyon. You're doing the double thumb Canyon, El Dorado Canyon, involved.

00:39:58.659 --> 00:40:18.420
Canyon. So that's about 18 miles of canyons, and that's not to disclude riding up to high camp from the highway 89 crossing at the beginning to high camp at mile 13 is a pretty tremendous climb as well. So there's not really as much down, but a lot of climb there

00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:22.219
and then. So a good fifth of the ride is the canyons. What

00:40:22.760 --> 00:40:25.579
was that? Sorry, the 20% of the ride

00:40:25.699 --> 00:40:27.619
is canyons. Yeah. I

00:40:27.619 --> 00:40:41.860
mean, this has 14,800 feet of elevation gain, which is crazy, and 20,000 almost 21,000 feet of elevation loss in this ride over 100 miles, which is pretty intense, so net loss,

00:40:41.860 --> 00:40:47.199
but a lot of climbs to go with the with the net loss, a lot of climbs, a

00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:59.378
lot. Yeah, so these canyons are right in the middle of your ride, which is actually the hottest part of the day, always. Um, our watches were saying, like, different, mixed reports, but about 105 in the canyons. Um,

00:41:00.820 --> 00:41:09.840
so you guys have electrolytes for the for you the people too. How did you guys manage enough electrolytes and and water for yourselves as well?

00:41:10.559 --> 00:43:26.059
Luckily, the thing that makes this ride so magical and spectacular is so your crew can only be at two points along the ride, essentially, like the two big checks, the only mandatory one hour holds, which are Robinson flat at mile. I think it's 30 6am. I Right? Yeah, mile 36 Robinson flat, and then Forest Hill mill site at mile 68 so basically, every third you get to stop. So at 1/3 of the race and two thirds of the race, you have an hour hold where you actually see your official crew that helps you. But everywhere else along the ride are volunteers. Now, they're incredible. They're like cheering you on. We get a lot of the western states, 100 foot race runners that come out and volunteer because they're just enamored with the trail. And these people will do anything for you. They're like, holding your horse. They're refilling your water. So we carry, like, electrolyte packets on us and mix that with the water. But there's human water, horse, water, food, everything at all, these volunteer checks, and the volunteers are like, right there to help you. I mean, I had Alex was not cooling off. I had like, four volunteers dumping water on him, just totally like their life depended on it getting his heart rate down, and they're like that for everybody. So it's incredible. It's like having a pit crew run up to you as soon as you get to these stops. And that's what makes this race like so much safer for the horses and riders, is having all the support along the way. Sometimes I say that actually, Tevis is not the worst, first 100 mile, depending on your horse's temperament, because there are so many spots in which you can either be pulled if the horse is not doing well, but also support, because there are a lot of like, there's the Virginia City 100 that contrasts it, and it's one of the other most tough, tough hundreds in the West that we did. I actually did on Alex last year, and that's like, got like, a 50 or 60 mile loop at the beginning, and there's there's support on the way a little bit. But man, you are just riding stretches of open, rocky Nevada desert without anyone or anything you know. So that can make it really difficult too. So every 100 mile, just like all the big 100 mile Ultra running races, is very unique to itself, but the western states is, if we didn't add the volunteers, I don't think would be safe or possible.

00:43:26.840 --> 00:44:04.980
So yeah, we have electrolytes with us, and there's water stops for people along the way. But those those 105 degree canyons, back to talking about tools and being coachable. We walked down the first one to give the horses a break, because actually it's harder on the horses. If you think about downhill, just like running, that's higher. So if you can get off for your downhills, you're actually helping your horse a lot. They don't have to balance you. And then you ride up hills, um, and we all got off and walked down the first Canyon, and it goes into the Swinging Bridge area, which is over a rip over the river, and you get to walk into the river and cool your horse.

00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:07.619
We actually took probably too much time there looking back.

00:44:07.619 --> 00:45:31.460
That was maybe the only mistake we made, because that put us close to cut offs. We we had watched the horses in the river, and we're just dumping water on them. And after we got out of the canyon, we we walked the horses across cross Swinging Bridge, which is exactly what it sounds like. It's a bridge that, like, sways back and forth as you go across it, but luckily, you're at like, halfway point, so your horse is probably tired not to listen to you. And luckily, our horses have done Swinging Bridge quite a lot, because we used to ride the canyons to practice when I lived in that area of California, and we got back on, there's like a rock on the other side, so you can, like, Mount back up and go up the canyon from there. And after we mounted up, Jesse was like, I think I'm having a stroke. And I was like, Oh my gosh. Like it, you know, immediately I was like, really anxious. And because, I mean, very possible to have heat stroke out there, right? Like, that's not a joke. And she's like, I'm like, What are you feeling? You know, kind of asking her, but she was, she wasn't slurring her words or anything. So I was like, okay, that's positive. And I was like, take little sips of water, breathe through it. Like, you're totally fine, you know, like, just let Chuck walk you up the hill, like, just grief. And we did some, I can't, I always forget the name of this, but Dylan had taught me this.

00:45:28.880 --> 00:45:35.659
There's this breath that you take, and it's called, like, the Paris something breath, but it's a

00:45:37.219 --> 00:45:44.559
which is, that is, hang on a minute. I teach this one the physiological side, yes,

00:45:44.559 --> 00:46:47.800
yes. So I was having her do that. And, and I always think of it, because when you SOB really hard, that's kind of you automatically do that, like it's good, yeah, yeah, and it centers you. So I was having her do that, and she was listening to me. And, I mean, I was a little bit panicking in my mind, but I was thinking, like me panicking is not going to help, or being really worried. And honestly, like having trouble in the canyons, you have to get up to where people can help you. I mean, it's single, trapped drop off ish, you know, not, not safe trail, like you have to keep going forward. There's no choice. And I was like, All right, well, we'll at least get her to the top of the top of the canyon, but I'll just keep talking Dora through it. And Jesse trusted me enough to get her through that. Like you have to be coachable, you know, which is such a skill. And I really appreciated the trust she placed in me in that moment, and me, you know, just such a classic teacher student moment where, like, it seems like your teacher is very calm, but on the other side of it, you realize that they were also like, oh my god, oh my

00:46:48.039 --> 00:46:49.900
god, yeah, so worried.

00:46:50.679 --> 00:47:28.219
And so we, we went, got through that, and by halfway up the canyon, she was feeling a lot better. And it was, I think it was also like, Jesse's mindset, like I've really noticed for myself, in doing cold plunges that that moves across to, like, heat, um, tolerance as well, in that it's a mindset thing. Like, I do really feel like you could succumb to the heat if you really say, Oh, I'm hot. Like, yeah, you really not just accept that premise. Like, for me, like, Oh, I feel I'm sweating, but I'm fine, you know, like, that's I've changed my mindset around temperature, and I struggle a lot more with cold.

00:47:25.938 --> 00:48:13.498
I'm actually one of the most heat adapted people in the world, probably, I love the heat, and so it wasn't a problem for me, but I've, I've learned the I can feel uncomfortable in the heat, but I if you do not give in mentally to it, you actually have a lot more control over your physicality and your experience of it. And I know that more from my experience with cold plunging, where, again, if you don't give into I'm cold, like, don't think about that. Think about something else. And also think about being in control of your body. And so that was kind of the conversation we had around the heat as we went through it, and and Jesse, it was like strong enough to be able to get through that experience, because she was not only trusted me, but in herself and mentally, was able to overcome that moment where she could have probably really gone into some heat shock.

00:48:15.480 --> 00:49:00.219
I have 1000 places I want to go, but I have something just triggered. As you said, she trusted in herself, and you mentioned also that she's very coachable. And I know Jesse because we rode together in your June camp, which we'll get to later. We're going to talk about that. And Jesse is the one of the four of you that had or that not just the one of you, because you've done this, but she finished the mongold Derby last year, world's longest horse race, 1000 kilometers across long Mongolia. But here's what, here's what got triggered, is trusting herself, to trust you and to be coachable. And I can see that she's coachable. I'm I could. It's almost like I knew it the minute I met her. What?

00:48:53.860 --> 00:49:01.500
What is it that makes someone coachable? Do you think?

00:49:04.139 --> 00:50:09.958
I think it goes along the lines of like, truly wanting to learn, like truly being in a plate space of like introspection and self growth and, yeah, and growth, because there's a lot of people that want the end result, right? Like that will show up. And because they're so focused on the end result of what they might want to get, they're actually not listening to the process. And I think Jesse's figured out the magic is in the process. Like, can't say that enough. It's all about the journey. And I think, you know, in training for the Mongol Derby, Jesse has realized the fun was the training. I think a lot of Mongol Derby writers find that out like they're all to get to this finish line. I want to finish the Mongol Derby, but typically, like especially the repeat clients that we have back, they realize that the joy in life is about training for things like the Mongol derby. It's not in the actual doing of it, like the doing of it is the icing on the cake, but the cake itself is that that process of being a lifelong learner and and a life and wanting to improve, right?

00:50:09.958 --> 00:50:27.199
Like a lot of the people that come to the Derby, are top riders to begin with, so they're at the top of their game in some capacity, but they realize now there's like another gap to clear to be able to ride a Mongol pony that far, and then they get to be learners again.

00:50:23.958 --> 00:51:16.858
And I think if they really enjoy that process, they become coachable, which really just means they're open to learning and open to shifting their paradigm. And like feeling so good about that paradigm shift, especially because things like Mongo Derby and Tevis really open back up the way you look at your horse human relationship, it puts it under a lot of stress, but it also tells you that you have to trust your horse. And I think that's something that the modern, maybe show world or modern horse human relationship has taken away. Is like we've taken we want to make things so safe, and to make it safe, we're like the human needs to do all the thinking. Well, that doesn't work out on horse terrain, like our horses are far superior. Believe me, I ran a lot on foot. I had to hang on to Alex's saddle in the dark, running downhill over rocks like there's no way I'm good at that.

00:51:16.918 --> 00:51:24.139
He was great at that, so I had to trust him. And I was just running blind, hanging on to him. And same with Mongol derby.

00:51:24.139 --> 00:51:46.059
Like, do you really know the terrain better than those Mongolian ponies? No. So it opens the relationship back up to being more of a 5050, input, where the horse has a lot of say, and you have to have trust in that horse and just trusting, yeah, no, getting rid of control, really letting go of control was a lot of this. And Jesse discovered

00:51:46.059 --> 00:52:49.599
that that's the that's the principle of be the conduit that I've been learning, which is, let the horse tell you what to do, when to do, how to do. And, you know, really trusting that they do have a say so, and that they do know better. And I have found on for me, on trail rides and so forth. I've had different as you know, I've had a lot of teachers. Some have been like, you decide every football and I've realized out on the trail, and that may be true in the arena, in certain circumstances, but out on the trail, I really don't like to I like I want them to pick their their path, because it's their feet, you know. And they know better than I do where we should go and what will work. And it's amazing what happens the thing that I strikes me and tell me, if you have noticed this, when I'm in the space of be the conduit, meaning I am open to the horse, telling me they seem to know it. I don't know how, how they do, but it's a feeling that comes across. Is that what you've experienced as well? Like, they know when you're really listening to

00:52:50.199 --> 00:53:24.860
them, yeah, absolutely, yeah. That's and that's like opening up that connection, right? Like, I think, just like in a relationship with any I love to liken how I treat my horses to how would I treat a friend or another human for the most part, because we're all sentient, and I often think like, if you're controlling the conversation all the time with another human, they're not going to be very interested in speaking anymore, right? Like, if you're not, if you're just talking at yourself, basically, which is what a lot of people are doing with their horses.

00:53:22.639 --> 00:54:28.400
They're like, where should we go? We should go here. We should do exactly this, and we'll do that. And like, you know how what friend is going to want to have a conversation with you anymore, if that's how the conversation always goes? And yeah, maybe they'll keep showing up, but they're going to show up shut down. They're just ignoring what you're saying because you're just rambling. But when you're inviting them to have a say in the conversation, like, where should we go? Can you can you show me how where we should go? What speed should we go? Can you show me what speed? And then just focusing on yourself in that moment of being like, I'm in a balance while you choose to can or trot, walk, whatever you want to do in between, really empowers them, but there's a flip side to that, like everything's such a balance. I feel like our horses are fairly empowered, but they also speak pretty loudly, like all of our horses throw bucks to let us know how they feel. And I think a lot of horse trainers would be really appalled and horrified by that, but that's just the way that they speak. And I feel like it's my duty to be physically capable to handle that, because they're never trying to buck to buck. You off. I take that back.

00:54:23.780 --> 00:55:50.260
Chuck can be a little a little nefarious sometimes, but for the most part, our horses are just trying to communicate clearly and and like Alex is a great example. Like I said, His nickname is the cocaine bear. I mean, that horse is, like, wildly expressive, and he's probably the least shut down horse I've ever encountered, and that's because we've empowered him to be such like I never question what he's thinking, because his face will tell me what he's thinking, and he's just wildly animated and and it can be a lot like I, I won't go down this road too far, because I could go off and. Another tangent. But I often think, like we just got another horse added to the herd. We did an exchange for Captain, and he's in a great spot, and that's a whole other conversation as well, but he came to us as dangerous and and almost put down because of his mannerisms. And I think everyone says, oh, Stevie, your horses are amazing. And I just laugh, because all of them have done antics which, and I think just because they're, you know, Arabian crosses that are fit to go 100 miles, they're extremely expressive. And I imagine in the wrong hands, many people would be like, this horse should be put down. And I think about that, about Alex, the horse I rode Tevis on, is he can be pretty, like a huge handful, but if you really know him and read him, he's not actually ever going to hurt you. He's just going to be expressive to the point where you're afraid.

00:55:46.360 --> 00:56:12.780
Possibly, he's quite a lot of horse, and that's just because he's fully allowed to have input. So there is, you know, Mark Schiller talks about like you have to be careful about waking up a shutdown horse, because there's going to be a lot to say. And I would say our horses are definitely not shut down, but in the wrong if it's interpreted incorrectly, that could be there would be a lot of fear around how they behave, I think, right? Well,

00:56:13.860 --> 00:56:41.739
when we start listening to the other person, essentially, horse, dog, you have to allow room for things not to go your way. You know it's not always going to be the exact way we want it, and I feel like that's part of the give and take of a relationship too, that if we're stuck on it's gotta go my way or the highway, you're probably going to find yourself in a in a one sided relationship,

00:56:42.820 --> 00:57:05.880
absolutely, I was just gonna say just like a marital relationship, right? Like, everyone has these dreams of, like, a perfectly romantic relationship, and it's like, it's, you're never gonna be aligned on everything, and so you really have to listen to the other person that I don't think it's different in the horse human relationship. I mean, that's sentient, unsentient behavior, pretty, pretty mirrored. Yeah,

00:57:05.880 --> 00:57:28.280
it really is, and, and it's part of that being coachable question that you also mentioned as well, because to me, I've had to make this transition for myself. I would say I don't know how many years ago, I won't try to put a timeline on it, because it's been more of a like awakening for me than it's been a light switch. But there was a time when I was definitely not coachable. I needed to be right.

00:57:28.699 --> 00:57:52.360
I needed to prove to you I was right, and I needed to get to that end goal no matter what, and the process be damned, and whatever you do don't make me look bad, and I sometimes help other. And to me, that's a form of human shutdown, by the way, yeah, and I this is one of the things I do now, is help people sort of come out of that.

00:57:49.719 --> 00:57:54.519
Because for many people, it's like, well, of course, duh.

00:57:52.360 --> 00:58:12.900
That's the way it works. That's how we're supposed to be. Is we gotta, you know, make the stock price go up, or finish this project, or whatever the goal might be, and not recognizing that the journey is really about a learning process. Back to what you said earlier, is the payoff isn't in the goal. The payoff is in who you become on the way to the goal,

00:58:14.280 --> 00:58:56.320
absolutely, absolutely and just enjoying. I mean, I always tell people for the Mongol Derby, if your sole goal is to, like, finish or finish well, or like, any, any big race or big destination, or like, say, you're doing an Iron Man or something, if you only care about crossing the finish line, that's really sad, because that's one second of the experience, truly one second of the entire experience. So are you going to be stressed out and upset through the entire like year leading up to it like the process is available to us almost all the time, whereas the end result is a very fleeting moment in comparison. So if you are invested only in your results, you're really leading a very stressful, sad life.

00:58:57.280 --> 00:59:28.039
It's kind of empty. And it also, I feel like might be one of the roots of the rampant depression that we see, and because you can't ever be satisfied if you're living for that one second that's fleeting and gone. And from what I've seen, I've spent a lot of time with people who have crossed that finish line, or in the Ski World, or whatever it can feel pretty empty. They can achieve their goal, the thing they wanted so much, and an hour later, be looking around going, Oh, now what

00:59:29.239 --> 01:00:10.498
I mean every you know, this is my fourth attempt at Tevis, and I usually take the horse that's probably least likely to finish. Anyhow, this is my fourth attempt, my first finish. So I finally got the buckle, and I may have pictured that a million times in my head, but I already knew. I already knew what it's like to finish 100 mile ride ride. It's always super anticlimactic, because it's always super early in the morning. Everyone's exhausted, and everyone's like, yeah, great, I'm going to bed. And I think one of my. Favorite 100 mile rides are the really small, poorly attended ones where there's maybe like 12 riders that have signed up, and almost no one's there at the finish, because it really highlights.

01:00:10.498 --> 01:00:40.159
Just let those experiences you come in in the dark, and it's just really about you and your force and what you've just done, and you better have enjoyed that process, because there is no fanfare at the finish. Tevis is different. There's a whole stadium everyone's cheering like, that's like, probably a much more traditional feeling that people would want. But I truly enjoy the hundreds where it's like, there's no one there to see what you've done. And that's a shift for me as well. I think all of us that grew up in traditional schooling where, like, the grade you got in your paper was all that mattered.

01:00:40.639 --> 01:01:25.039
Like, I also, as a people pleaser, same thing, like, that's changed for me. Endurance riding has changed that for me, because there's, it's so long to get to a finish line that you better enjoy the process and and not just the process of the day of the ride, right? Like, the they say, Tavis is all about bringing a horse to the start line, because that is years of training like, I think it takes five years to make 100 mile horse, oh, to have this 100 mile horse at least, and to bring one that's truly going to come out the other side of it and continue to have a like, really blossoming career. I think it's five years of training and work and preparation at least, and and that's you have to have joy in that, because it's all of it.

01:01:25.039 --> 01:01:38.778
That's your whole life, and that's the finish line at Tevis was just a snapshot of everything that I tried to train for. And so it's just a it's really good to have that perspective of enjoying the process. And and I was laughing.

01:01:38.778 --> 01:02:27.739
Last year we finished five out of five horses, but I didn't ride, and we had riders struggling with lots of different things. We had an amazing rider from Australia named Trish, who is, I don't want to mess up her age, but I think she's 63 I want to make sure that I'm saying that right, and but she's, I'm going to say 63 maybe she's older than that, but that was pretty amazing. And she finished on Sparta, who's 17, and that was a truly magical experience, like five riders from around the world road, and they didn't know the horses as well, like there were so many things we had Alex Lewis, who's battling, coming through cancer.

01:02:22.639 --> 01:02:56.199
I mean, just like a really like, it was amazing that we got a five out of five finish. And the feeling that I had, I was with Tricia, husband, Ian, and this is Tricia, third attempt at Tevis. We were standing on the bridge. It looked we were looking at our trackers on our phone, and it said that she was like, not where she was supposed to be on trail, and thought she wasn't going to finish. The other four riders had just ridden past us. So we were like, awesome. We have four horses going under the banner. We are over at no hands Bridge, which is about four miles from the finish. And we're like, Awesome.

01:02:53.739 --> 01:02:59.559
Well, at least bring four horses under the banner, which is an amazing achievement. Super cool.

01:03:00.579 --> 01:03:03.418
And we kept waiting, just hoping that she was going to be there.

01:03:03.418 --> 01:03:17.278
And we were like, okay, in 10 minutes, if she doesn't come by, like, she's probably getting a trailer ride back, something happened. And when we saw these horses trotting up, and right behind them was Trish on Sparta.

01:03:11.458 --> 01:04:15.659
And I, I don't even, I can't even explain, like, being like, oh my god, we're gonna get five out of five horses under the banner, and truly that experience of like, being like, I got to give this gift to these people, like, of these horses, like it wasn't even me, like those horses gave themselves to these people because they understand what Tevis means. In fact, I think they think it means more than it does, because in their world, Tevis is a Tevis. Is it like Tevis is the pinnacle of their existence, and they got to give that experience to these people. And everyone got a buckle, and the experience of them getting their buckles, including my best friend, Mallory, was like better that that year, that experience was better for me than getting my own buckle. And I kind of knew, I knew that there'd be an anti climatic crossing the finish line, and it kind of was, and I was super excited that we got four out of four again, which was mind blowing, because I was like, cool, we got five out of five. I'll never have that experience again. I'll never get 100% completion again. Like, that's just not how Tevis works.

01:04:16.139 --> 01:04:19.259
And then we got it this year, which was mind blowing.

01:04:19.440 --> 01:04:21.019
Mind blowing given that 40%

01:04:23.239 --> 01:04:32.599
and this year, hot and hard, like they picked so Tevis trail differs every year a little bit, depending on like fires and trail restoration.

01:04:29.599 --> 01:04:44.978
They have lots of like little different routes that they can take along the way. And this year, they kind of picked the toughest of everything, like they included pucker point, which is like three miles of pretty intensely drop off trail.

01:04:39.978 --> 01:04:51.039
So I will say, like, realizing what part was pucker point this year. It's quite nice, Sandy trail. It was, like, beautiful trail, very scary.

01:04:52.179 --> 01:04:56.199
But video, my, my heart stopped when I saw some of that video,

01:04:57.039 --> 01:06:06.420
yeah, it's um, it's serious, uh. So yeah, the. Trail was one of the most difficult that they've had before, and also the hottest. And again, like you said, 40% completion rate this year. 160 horses came to Robie Park, and I think 56 crossed the finish line. So that was it was a tough year, and it was amazing to have all four of our horses do it again. And that I still haven't probably even processed, but getting getting my own buckle wasn't really what it was about. In fact, the moment, I think the moment, like I said, of all five crossing and seeing other people realize their dreams, was pretty amazing. And also just that moment that I described online, which I'll restate here, was a moment that I had with Alex. So my favorite part of Tevis was actually a few miles from the finish when I realized we were going to make it in time for sure that we were going to cross all four horses under the finish line. Not to say that people do get pulled at the finish, just so you know, they do a final vet check at the finish, and if your horse does not look fit to continue. They won't. They will take your Tevis finish from you.

01:06:03.360 --> 01:07:23.900
So passing the final vet check is the thing, but you at least get to ride under the banner and get a photo of you coming under the western states 100 flag. I knew we were going to at least do that, and we were riding along. And last year, when I wrote Virginia City 100 I actually led a lot on Alex. And my my main horse that I've ridden for a long time was Sparta, and she's like, truly can trust her with anything, just so solid. And when I ride her, I'm completely relaxed, and we definitely co regulate each other in a wonderful way. And when I was riding Alex, I had to ride in the lead at Virginia City, and it's dark there, and there's like loose Mustangs. I mean, we had like wild mustangs running over the trail in front of us in the dark, lots of things that are very, very valid to spook at. And Alex can be spooky. And I just kept saying, Alex is the new Sparta, because all the horses know that I usually ride Sparta, and I was kind of like trying to encourage him, but also encourage myself to, like, be relaxed in my body in the way that I would on Sparta, which is like another mental trick I play to make sure that I'm not communicating with my body inappropriately to Alex so and I always like, Oh, it works. It's a great tool. Like, if I again, I'll reiterate it.

01:07:20.900 --> 01:07:35.179
If you have a horse that you feel confident on, try to do that when you're riding a horse you don't feel confident on. And it's crazy how much your body, you can feel your body change when you like, say that sentence in your head, like, I'll say, pretend you're riding Sparta.

01:07:35.179 --> 01:08:44.439
And then I'll notice all these like 10, all this tension I was holding that I let go of. So on, Alex at Virginia City, and I kept saying, Alex is the new Sparta. And got us through, and we were riding and kind of out of nowhere, riding in the dark, and I was thinking, we're actually going to go under the banner. And I felt like this question in my head. And I don't feel that the person necessarily talk in English when they communicate to me, but my brain interprets it back into English, and I got this feeling, question of Alex is the new Sparta question mark. And I just, like, started crying, and that's where I actually lost. It was, like, quietly, and I was leading because my amazing friend Carmen, who desperately wanted me to get a buckle, we are, like, coming up on, like, about three or four miles from the finish. And she was like, I'm just gonna go to the back. Why don't you go ahead and lead? And I was like, Carmen, you're doing that. So I placed in front of you. Like, what are you the whole way? And and I just, like, had this, like, massive moment of gratitude for, like, the effort that Jesse and Sally brought to the table on their first Tevis and to Carmen, who I ride, like, so many miles with.

01:08:44.439 --> 01:09:54.520
Like, she's just an incredible, credible human being, like, truly one of my best friends as well. Like, can't love her and more, and was having that moment of gratitude for them, but also, like, for Alex and like, that deep connection that we had through the whole ride of just being in great communication, like he the whole ride, like I had to get off and help adjust saddles on horses as the saddles slid off around corners and and I actually asked him to stand like in at the beginning of the ride while there's horses racing past on trail. And he stood there without me, holding him, waiting for me. I mean, just like, truly a stellar citizen, like dead broke trail horse the whole day, and just having that moment to like thank him for that and and it's one thing to thank somebody for something, but to thank them and have them you know that they understood that is truly a gift. Like to be able to like, Give my love and gratitude to him and have him receive it was, like, just more than I could ask for. That was I didn't even need that buckle like that was such a beautiful moment. And like, our relationship is so much deeper.

01:09:51.579 --> 01:10:13.199
Like every horse I've done 100 miles with, you just become so close. And I think that's the beauty of endurance. It's like tackling adversity in a setting where you can get help and assistance and and coming out the other side like that's I just love endurance. It's so wonderful. They're truly spectacular.

01:10:14.520 --> 01:10:42.220
Okay, so I just have to say to anybody listening, hit rewind and go hear what she said again about Alex receiving what it meant for you to receive from him that he received it. Because how many of us don't accept a compliment, or we won't allow ourselves to receive help, or we won't allow ourselves to receive somebody's gratitude, and yet, when we don't receive it, we have taken away the givers gift,

01:10:44.079 --> 01:10:47.859
absolutely, absolutely.

01:10:44.079 --> 01:10:59.020
That's definitely something I'm always trying to work on, is accepting love and gratitude, and I think that's something we all probably have to work on, because otherwise we would know we were enough and we'd be enlightened, right?

01:11:00.640 --> 01:11:05.340
That what enlightenment really is, is just knowing we're enough as we are. I really

01:11:05.340 --> 01:11:09.720
think that's true. I think answering yourself that you're enough is true enlightenment.

01:11:10.439 --> 01:11:40.100
Well, you know, I the thing I feel is I hear you describing that receiving feeling was that you it's, it's sort of a culmination of almost 100 miles of adversity along the trail. Is there any particular story you've told us a few, but any other moments of adversity, things where you questioned, places that you want to call out, that were just moments where you and that all eight of you sort of pushed through anything in particular?

01:11:41.119 --> 01:12:39.199
Yeah, yeah. I think some self growth that happened is I kind of went in understanding the goals and understanding what it feels like to be in a stressful situation. And my goal was, I was going to ride with everyone and help them as much as possible, but I've done that to the detriment of like, self care to myself and the horse that I'm riding in Tevis, why not every time, but why it's contributed to me not finishing in the past was that I was putting everyone else before myself and the horse. And I tell everybody that, like, Hey, I'm gonna I'm riding for myself as well this time. So I was clear about my needs and clear about what I was willing to give everybody else, and, um, something that I still, I actually am carrying with me that was like also difficult was that I actually did that and that I felt terrible about it.

01:12:39.199 --> 01:13:00.479
So the example is that as we were coming close to cut offs around the canyons Deadwood, some of the volunteers had the information incorrect in that they thought that we had to be out by 5pm but our car and our knowledge was that we had to be in by 5pm and I think we came in, I have the stats right here.

01:13:00.479 --> 01:13:14.579
We came in close, but we came in to Deadwood at 4:37pm so we were, what is that? 23 minutes or something, ahead of cut off?

01:13:14.939 --> 01:13:32.539
Yeah, yeah. We were 23 minutes ahead of the cutoff, and we took some time to cool there. At that point, I was telling because I had said to everybody, like, it's more important that you get a buckle than that you would be nice to the other riders, like, because it is a little silly.

01:13:29.539 --> 01:13:32.539
Like, there are people right?

01:13:32.539 --> 01:13:35.000
Like, sticking together as a group doesn't always make sense.

01:13:35.180 --> 01:13:39.140
So I told Jesse, like, go. Like her and Chuck were pulsing down.

01:13:39.140 --> 01:13:53.439
I was like, Go, you have to leave. And same thing to Carmen a couple times. Hung around way longer than I would have agreed because she really wanted to help get me through. But I was like, no go. Like, if you don't get a buckle because you waited around for me, that's stupid.

01:13:50.739 --> 01:14:02.760
And that's like, something I'd done myself in the past. So I was like, Go, because we are so close to cut offs. I was like, give yourself time if you want to wait. Like, wait at another check with water and hay, right?

01:14:02.760 --> 01:14:52.960
Like, let your horse recoup as you wait for us. So I sent Jesse out ahead of us. So Jesse went through the second part of the Canyons with Chuck by herself, because Chuck was pulsing down just fine. So I was like, Go Carmen. Same thing. Finally, Carmen left, because the volunteers were saying you have to be out by 5pm or you can't leave. And we were all so confused because our card said something else, like our time cards that we were looking at, and we were getting really stressed. And Sally on Sonic, Sally and myself had pulled saddles off to help our horses cool off, and we passed our vet check. But then they're like, you have to be like, riding out of here on your horse, having left at 5pm and it was like three minutes. And I was like, through Alex to some volunteers, I'm like, let him eat Smash. And I was running, sprinting across Deadwood, grabbing my saddle, saddleing up, and I'm like, Sally, get your saddle going.

01:14:53.079 --> 01:14:55.600
And I'm like, I

01:14:55.600 --> 01:15:48.760
have to leave. I'm like, go. And she's like, she's and then I realized she's still in the back. Line, and I'm like, Oh my gosh, she's not going to make it out. And I was like, that's not fair. She's waiting at a vet line, like she, you know, as the vets can go. And I was like, torn, and it's like, that split second decision, like, do you wait? But then in the volunteer, I was like, Can I wait? And she's like, you'll be disqualified if you wait. And I was like, oh, so I saddled up and rode out. And I was like, Sally, just just go. But I thought, as I was leaving Deadwood, I had the sinking feeling. I'm like, oh my god, they didn't make it like they didn't make it out. And we're right around, I think it's volcano Canyon there, around the turns, and all of a sudden, Alex winnies and I hear this Winnie behind us on really far away, but I can see Sally on Sonic.

01:15:45.159 --> 01:15:52.659
And so she, like, made it out of there. And I was like, so thankful she caught up to us.

01:15:53.260 --> 01:17:38.960
And we were like, talking. We're like, because Carmen and I had talked, I caught up to Carmen leaving because I cantered out of there, because I was, like, panicked as well. Like, I'm like, if it's 5pm cut off. We're like, seconds in front of the cut off. So I'm gonna have to canter this whole thing. And Alex was feeling good, so I cantered and caught up to Carmen, and Carmen and I are, like, back and forth. Like, how was that the cutoff? Did they change it? Like, what's going on? And there had already been some things happening in the canyons where it was, like, the opposite was being said, because we had to wait behind a horse that actually fell down in the canyon, and someone was we had an extra hour, so we were so confused. And there was just confusion everywhere about what the cutoff times were, but we're like, we're gonna go with our car, because that's supposed to be the official times, so we should be okay. Anyhow, Sally catches up, and then we get into we go through the Michigan bluff. We find Jesse there cooling off. So the four of us are back together, and we were back together till the finish for the most part. But we get to Michigan bluff, then chicken Hawk, and chicken hawks the last vet check before Forest Hill, which is the one hour hold, where the horses really get to, like recenter, and we're in chicken Hawk, and they have, like, the incorrect times posted there too, like an hour, like, saying that you have to be into Forest Hill. Forest Hill pulse down by 7:45pm Well, that sign was from last year when they had a different course. So we were, like, it was so confusing. Um, so anyhow, same thing happens to us where they're like, if you don't leave right now, you're disqualified. And and Sally, again, is like, in the Met line with Sonic, and I'm like, Sally, like, I again, felt terrible because, like, this is a rider that's like, rented a horse for me that I'm supposed to be helping. And I'm like, do I stay and possibly get pulled as well?

01:17:34.279 --> 01:18:02.640
But like, do so in solidarity, or do I go for it? And I was like, that was the moment where I was like, okay, present me feels like, I don't want to abandon her. But in fact, future me would be like, Well, that was stupid. Why would you stay there and get pulled also just in solidarity? So I was like, I'm leaving her. So I had to leave Sally twice, and she was amazing, and caught back up and, like, rode out anyways, despite what the volunteers were saying.

01:18:02.640 --> 01:19:39.319
And we happened to get into Forest Hill at 8:16pm, which was like 30 minutes ahead of cut off. So we made our time in the hands and and then from there, we were pretty much okay. I think we only cut it close again at Francisco's because we took a long time to fall down again, and it was very hot and humid at night, which was crazy anyhow, so I think that the big moment of adversity for me was actually doing something for me, and that was hard. I think that was really hard, and I still am not maybe okay with it, because I feel really guilty about having left her behind, even though, in the reality of it doesn't make sense, so just because you're doing maybe the right thing for yourself, you have to know that we're so programmed to be people pleasing that it's not going to feel good. And so like, kind of the that's that paradoxical moment, maybe your intuition is not right, like, maybe your gut feelings are not always right, that sometimes they're so connected to your programming that you really need to, like, you need to use your head. So again, that's like the opposite of what we usually say, where it's like, listen to your gut versus your mind. But I use that tool of what it passed me, did so much, paid so much money to get here and future me is going to be so upset that I did something so dumb, so I had to use that past and future mind game to really make that decision in the moment. And it still didn't feel good. But overall, it contributed. You know, we made it. We all made it. It was fine.

01:19:40.460 --> 01:20:18.119
I think that you just hit on something that's also very huge, which is still didn't feel good, and like you said, you still kind of are haunted by it a little bit. And that's okay, because I do think we're sometimes sold a bill of goods that when you make the right decision, you're going to feel good. And I don't think. That's necessarily true, and I'm drawing as you were speaking, it was drawing on my experience of walking my daughter through her drug addiction, and I had to make a lot of choices that didn't necessarily feel good, absolutely the right decision.

01:20:13.500 --> 01:21:09.119
And today, she coaches parents who have an adult child and addiction to make decisions that look exactly like what you talked about, which is, no, I am actually going to leave you here. And in Sally's case, it was kind of through no fault of her own right. She was in the vet line because she was in the vet line. But a lot of times when parents of children with addiction, or I think about people at work, oftentimes with my clients, they have somebody who isn't pulling their weight or choosing not to, it's like you do have to leave them behind because they're making that choice. And if you don't, you're the Be. You're going to be the one that gets run over or the one that loses or harmed. You know, in a lot of cases, we know parents who've lost houses, who've not withstanding all the good intentions, have lost their children and so forth. So I'm just coming back to, you know, making the right decision doesn't always feel good. No, still the right

01:21:10.260 --> 01:21:33.020
and how messed up is it that I'm so much more okay with my own failure, like I would much rather, like my gut intuition says I'm totally fine feeling because I've, you know, that's what happened the last three Tevis is for me, I was, I had my own failure and and instead wanting, like, I'd rather have my own failure than somebody else failing, right?

01:21:33.020 --> 01:22:10.140
And, but then that also begs the question, like, Why do I feel responsible for what someone else experiences or has coming and also coming around to the other thing that I have guilt about, which we were talking about before we started. This was your experience when you came out on the boot camp and road hero and had that experience. And this is, this is, like, kind of my job, like I completely am okay with being hurt or having something happen to me, but I feel like I am responsible for everyone's experience, because I do host these camps or have these, you know, like I am putting myself in a position of control of the situation, right? And when that does not the

01:22:10.140 --> 01:22:11.460
way, you do marvelously

01:22:13.079 --> 01:22:46.960
well. Thank you. But I still feel like I misread that situation, and it's so ridiculous, because I feel like I read situations, like, when I look at it, this all logically, right? Like, yeah, we have success. And that means, like, every time that people get on our horses who are like, 100 mile, not shut down Arabians, and we have, like, 9000 times out of 9001 there's a great experience, but that one time sticks with me, because we have that negative bias in our head where I'm like, I can't believe I didn't do that, right? Some people might

01:22:47.319 --> 01:22:55.840
have heard this. Some people might not have heard this story, because I did tell a little bit of this story a couple of weeks ago in my blog.

01:22:52.060 --> 01:23:36.739
But can you tell your experience of the story? Because I would really like to walk through this for people, because I think it i It was a to me, it was a phenomenal outcome, and and yet, we both misread a situation. And I want to talk about that because I actually also misread it. You said you misread, but so did I so. But describe your side of it. I'll tell my side of kind of what happened on so we were on a camping trip. It was you were hosted by you with the marvelous Jesse Dowling was along Alex Lewis and Eric White, who's an endurance runner or an ultra runner, and you so it was five of us, yeah. So describe kind of what happened with me and Hiro, who we've talked about. You know, that was the leader of the tennis pack,

01:23:37.699 --> 01:23:53.140
yeah? So hero is a horse that we call them. St, Hero most of the time. A couple of horses have been honored up to sainthood, and that means, like, you can pretty much trust anyone on them. St, Sonic, st, hero.

01:23:49.479 --> 01:24:43.899
St, Sparta, those are three saints out of the eight, and hero gets called Saint hero in writing lessons all the time, because he's exactly that. And but there are times when, and in the past, he used to be on horses pretty difficult to get on, especially at endurance rides. He'd get really worked up. But once you're on him, you were fine, but it was just performance anxiety thing. He's always, always been a bit of a cold back horse. And we, we've, like, looked into that, as far as like pain and pain management all that. And there's no kissing spine, nothing like that. But knowing him, he's actually has just high anxiety about doing like he's a very earnest horse, and that's what makes him so amazing, is he wants to do his job well. And if he perceives that he's in a race situation, he is very excited to go, and he wants you on and he wants to go.

01:24:40.359 --> 01:26:07.199
We also made this situation worse, because we used to let him run solo. Back when Dylan and I were conditioning all the horses, we would let him go without a rider, because he was so well behaved. And he'll follow you like a dog, or he'll lead like a dog, and you can tell him left, right down the trails like he's amazing. So he rode for an. Entire season without a rider for the most part, and ever since that we started destroyed him that he actually believes, like he shouldn't take a rider sometimes, where he's like, just let me go. I want to do it myself. Like I don't need anyone on board. And he is like that, like, you can just sit there and like, be on the buckle, and he'll just do it like, he loves to endurance race, and he loves to go down the trail. So he he's a saint. For that reason, you can have very little input, if you want, with him. Anyhow, he hadn't been very swirly to get on in a long time. And as Lynn and I were saddling him up and getting everyone on horses, I was walking around and adjusting strips, and I, I put myself in a bit of a productive struggle that weekend where I brought my six year old Valkyrie. And that was a big leap that I've been really afraid to make. Valkyries a whole other story, but basically having a young horse, where you're trying to make that transition from, you know, just doing little rides with them to being a horse. For me, I can't.

01:26:03.600 --> 01:26:33.319
I need to be on a horse that I don't have to think about too much if I'm teaching for a boot camp and I felt like fair to my boot camp riders if I'm there training my horse. But also, at what point, there's that point where you have to make the jump and that horse has to transition into being trusted as a horse that can, can be your, your main horse. And for that weekend, I was like, okay, I can get off and run with her if I need to.

01:26:30.260 --> 01:27:34.640
And I had just decided to bring her. So I think I was carrying a bit of anxiety about that. I know that Hiro is a little bit upset too sometimes about horses that I choose to be my main horse, that when it's not him, so I think he's carrying a bit of that there's, there's a lot of factors leading into why he was anxious. But I, I was walking around adjusting stirrups. We were going to put Lynn on last. And usually what I do in Heroes anxious, I get on first, and if he plays up at all, then we work through it, and then he's always good for the second person to get on. And for some reason that whole weekend being out in that area, he was anxious for mounting. And we did read that situation. I did not get on first. And Lynn got up lean forward to put her foot in the stirrup. And what did she or do? Like, I was holding, oh, I was holding on to him, yeah, and I didn't let him go forward, which is silly, and he went straight up. But it was because I put a lot of pressure on him to stand still.

01:27:34.939 --> 01:27:47.679
And I think I was actually saying, go forward. Because I was like, Oh, he wants to move, and if we just get moving, I'll get this foot in the stirrup. So you said, Go. And I said, stop at the same time. I mean, you said stop, and I said, go at the same time. So where else?

01:27:48.159 --> 01:28:01.020
But up exactly. And so he reared up, and Lynn came off, and then hero kind of reared up over her and got and stepped over her. But it looked it looked dramatic.

01:28:02.100 --> 01:28:05.279
I was gonna get stepped on. Yeah, it looked like

01:28:05.279 --> 01:28:29.239
she was gonna get stepped on, but he is very careful when around her. But it was just so shocking, because it was a horse that you would never expect it from and but it was clear like he was anxious. And then I said, stop, and put a lot of pressure for him to stop. And Lynn said, Go. And of course, he listened to both of us. He's like, I'm not going to go forward, but I'm going to go up.

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And yeah, we did. And then he was more anxious after that because of that experience, of course, so that that haunted me, just because I had misread that situation and not done what was right. And then I was also like, Darn it, I brought a horse that I can't put anyone else on, so I can't ride hero and and we just had, like, a big shuffle. I had encouraged Jesse to come out so that she could bond with Chuck Norris, the horse that she's about to ride for Tevis. And she ended up riding hero like I had to shuffle everyone around. And it was all worked out just fine.

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But overall, it was just an experience where I felt like I misread the situation and and it haunts me. Oh, interesting,

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because i i As I reflected on it, so my experience was almost exactly the same as yours, which was why, when I look back, I'm like, Why did I not see the signals? He wasn't ready for me to get on and not in that way, and say, Hey, can we change? Because I'd ridden him before, and I had him under the heading of a saint hero, because he was amazing with me in March when I was out there.

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And I was sure we were going to walk off a couple of steps, and then I'd settle in and we'd be fine. So as it was, though I came off, I wasn't hurt. I did compress my tailbone a little bit, and it was pretty amazing when I stood up and I was like, Wait, nothing's broken, nothing feel like anything's hurt. I'm okay. And then I watched you figure out what to do, and you looked over at Jesse and said, Jesse, I'm so sorry, but I think Lynn is going to have to ride Chuck. Work, because that was the only other of the horses that would have been good for me to ride. We know I'm not going to ride the cocaine bear. I'm still fairly beginner rider.