Feb. 7, 2025
#81 Chris Heron: The Path to Balance and Well-Being
My guest for this episode of the podcast is Chris Heron, who is the Director and Head Coach of Waterski and Wakeboard Scotland. Not only is he a coach, he is also the 3 time Scottish National Waterski Champion.
This podcast happened because I just happened to open an email that came in through my contact form on my website. Nine times out of ten, those emails are junk solicitations. In this case, it was members of Chris’s waterski team reaching out to say that they were fans of the podcast and thought he would be a good guest. I’m so glad I opened that email – because he WAS a great guest, and I had some much fun with this conversation.
We spoke about everything from the routines and rituals that he has found useful in competition to getting over fears to his philosophy of learning. Chris comes at waterskiing from both the coaching and athlete perspective, which adds depth to his viewpoints. Plus, he is STILL skiing in the winter! We talked about the benefits of cold exposure, which he takes to a whole level beyond what most do.
Whether you are a water skier, or your performance happens in other domains, there’s something in this podcast for you. I’m sharing his slick bio below.
I hope you enjoy this episode with Chris Heron.
Transcript
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Lynn, Welcome to Creative spirits unleashed, where we talk about the dilemmas of balancing work and life and now here's your host. Lynn Carnes,
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welcome to the creative spirits unleash Podcast. I'm Lynn Karns, your host. My guest for this episode of the podcast is Chris Herron. He's the director and head coach of water ski and wakeboard Scotland, but not only is he a coach, he is also the three time Scottish National Water Ski champion. Now this podcast happened because I just opened an email that came through my contact form on my website. I almost never do that, but nine times out because nine times out of 10, or maybe 99 times out of 100 it's just junk solicitations. But in this case, it was Chris's water ski team, or members of his team reaching out to say that they were fans of the podcast and thought he would be a really good guest.
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Well, I'm really glad I opened that email, because he was a great guest, and I had so much fun with this conversation. We spoke about everything from the routines and rituals that he has found useful in competition to getting over fears to his philosophy of learning. Sounds like my typical podcast, right?
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So Chris comes from water skiing, from both the coaching and athlete perspective, and it adds depth to his viewpoints, plus he's still skiing in the winter. We talked about the benefits of cold exposure, which, as you can see, he takes to a whole different level, beyond what most do now, whether you're a water skier or your performance happens in other domains. There is something in this podcast for you. He has so much to offer. He not only is the three time Scottish water ski champion, he's a competition driver, he's a judge. He prepares other people to learn to judge in water skiing. He has a very comprehensive bio, which you can find on the website, which he has put in a beautiful, very slick format. And I really hope that you enjoy this podcast with Chris Herron. Chris Herron, welcome to the creative spirits.
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Unleash podcast.
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Thanks, Lynn, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me. It's an honor. It's
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a I'm thrilled to have you here and thrilled that we got a chance to meet, and the way we've met, unlike most of the time I meet someone who's a fellow water skier, is on the side of the dock, is we've met through our water ski connections in the podcast world.
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Yeah, definitely, yeah. It was a bit of a bit of a weird one coming out of there.
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But yeah, it's quite nice to connect over the pond again.
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Yeah, and and speak to speak to a fellow skier, which is always nice to nice to do. What's
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interesting about skiing, and this is kind of where I want to start, is we didn't know each other until we hit record for this podcast. And yet, the sport of water skiing has this amazing way to connect. It's like you almost instantly have a shorthand. And I hate to say that use the word addiction, but we share an addiction, because there's something see what I mean. There's something about this sport that once you and there's a moment, and I'm not sure what that moment is, we'll talk about that, but once you really get into it, it does create an addiction in that, my definition of addiction is something that you want to do again, because you know you can do it a little bit better, and you're already figuring out, when are you going to get your next chance to do it. So what do you think makes water skiing so dang addictive?
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That's good question. We're getting really good questions. Start off, thank you.
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This is my thing. I start Yeah, no,
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I think so if I talk about it from my my own perspective, it's the speed I like, the adrenaline and but also it's kind of, it's a strange sport, if you, if some of your listeners haven't done it before, it's one of these sports where you are, if you're competing, it's, you're on your own, but you have only one shot at it. So it's, it's a bit it can be nerve wracking. It can be pretty brutal as well. And it's one of those things that kind of makes me addicted to is kind of pushing myself outside my comfort zone, and it feels horrible just beforehand, but then, as you're doing it, it's amazing, and then the aftermath is fantastic, especially you've skied well, so I think it's, it's having that feeling of, I guess, freedom, depending how long your set is, but for 15 minutes on the water, you're probably not thinking about anything that's going on your life, bar surviving and not falling um, or trying to run some nice ski passes. So it gives you that escapism from from life and any of trouble. So I guess that's definitely what got me into, is that that space from life. For 15 minutes a day, or half an hour a day.
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Yeah, and you're saying 15, not 50, because one of the things that for, like, somebody who snow skis or hikes or, you know, I'm going out to do some endurance riding in a month, where we're going to ride like 1520 miles a day, you know, we go for a long things with water skiing, 15 to 30 minutes, and 30 is a long time, and you're pretty much toast.
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Oh yeah, you're totally I think I'll be honest if you probably shouldn't say that to some of the guys I coach, but I'm probably toast after about two or three passes, but I'll put a brave face on, um, afterwards, but yeah, it's pretty intense for that for that short period of time, 100%
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so that's another that leads me to another question that I've I've thought about a lot, because it's hard, more difficult, to practice a sport that has so little time you can do it because, for example, if I want to learn to be a good snow skier, I could go do quite a few carves of the turns all day long, you know. And so I get a lot of repetitions, but in two or three passes of water ski, let's just use three for easy math. We're going to get three right, you know, one odd ball turns, and three even ball turns, if you will, and so that's on each pass. So you get nine opportunities for your off side and nine opportunities for your on side. Yeah, a few gates and your toast, or double that, because that six passes is a normal set. How the heck is it?
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The edge. And you're the coach, you know, the head coach of the water ski and white board of Scotland. So how does one get good when you get so little practice? Um,
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yeah, I think there's a couple of things like we're talking about slalom. So yeah, you're right. Those, those six, six passes are, if you come to Scotland, you get eight for your set. Just, just a wee plug there.
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But yeah, well, that's good for you.
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That's okay for your flight journey over from the States, you get an extra two passes a set. But yeah, I think, I guess from an athlete perspective, it is. It's committing yourself to, to actually training like I do try and train twice, twice a day, so I do get double that amount, and it's and it's just having that consistency. Some sets are not going to go your way. You're going to miss passes it should always run, or you're just going to have just an off day. But it's not being disheartened with that and trying to keep going with it, because consistency is key. And the whole sort of 10,000 hours of deliberate practice, all those sort of things come into play, where you've got to try and to do that, but when you have got the limited time, it's making sure that you're mentally prepared going into each each session to make sure you get the most out of it. Because, like you say, you've got limited time, so you need to make most of it. And that kind of goes the same for jump tricks, maybe a little bit different trick, you can kind of get away if you've got a big enough Lake. Look, we've got lakes here, or locks, as we call them, that are miles and miles long. And so you could easily just jump on the boat and you could do a trick run over and over again 1015, times before you run out of water. So in a way, albeit tricks of different, different sort of discipline, you've probably got more more time on the water to be able to practice like certain aspects of that, albeit some of the trickers will still say they get wet quite a lot, because they're still gonna be falling quite a bit. I
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was about to say, if somebody can do 10 trick runs down a lake and not fall, that's pretty magical. Yeah, they're probably not pushing their comfort zone or really learning anything. If that's the case, no, I
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would Yeah, I would say, so I think it's good for practice getting out there, especially this time of year over here, when we're breaking nice to try and get in the water and stuff like that. Sometimes maybe just sticking to either slalom passes it, you know, you can run relatively comfortably, or just to get your ski, your ski strength going, and your practice on point, and then check in same sort of things that you're comfortable doing, whether it's the surface trips or or wake jumps and whatnot, just trying to get yourself going. Um, obviously not many people are going to be jumping off a ramp at this time, so cutting and practicing on your jumpers and stuff like that as well will obviously help this time of year, because we we do get hit with some cold snaps, um, from about sort of November, December, all the way through to, like, end of February. So yeah, it's just trying to be as as consistent, but also making most of the time. Because, like, you say it is limited when you're in a ski school,
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yeah? Well, that's the other way we're limited is not only is it by our physical limits, but it's also by the weather limits. Because, yeah, I mean, I'm assuming, what is the temperature there? It's pretty cold. We're way too we have ice on our lake. We're not skiing.
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Yeah, we've, we've been, we've had some cold snaps lately. It's a little bit warmer today. It's something like four, four degrees Celsius and today, but it has been sort of minus six, minus seven, and it's, we're quite fortunate. That the lake that we, that we run the National Train site at, is is relatively shallow. It's only sort of six to seven foot deep.
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So it does take a it doesn't take long to fall, but it is quick to freeze, but we generally get away with it, or we we know the limits of when we can break the ice up and the guys can get out. So we were still we were still skiing when it was minus four outside. We managed to break the ice before it kind of got really, really bad. But yeah, that's that's killer on your hands, and your body takes a bit of a pound, and even more so with the cold weather. But there's ways in which you can, you can obviously prepare yourself for that and ensure that you kind of are as ready as possible for getting into that cold water, getting your your body ready for it, and not limiting yourself to just fair weather skiing like some people do. And I certainly think it shows towards the start of the season, the guys that have skied through the winter normally start kind of ramping up quicker than the guys that come back and are pretty cold and pretty stiff from the off season, and they try and start again. It always takes a few weeks, whereas the guys that have been skiing for the winter normally kind of can hit the ground running and kind of just start leapfrogging a few people at start season.
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Yeah, well, there's so many, okay, so I want to, I want to pull several threads from that, from every kind of the riff that you just went through, because there's so many pieces.
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One is the benefits of cold therapy, whether you're doing it in or outside of getting in the water skiing, because you're getting cold therapy when you ski. I would like to talk about also the the feelings that skiing creates, because you talked about, you know, the feeling of freedom, but also about being out of your comfort zone. So I'd love to talk about, like, dancing back and forth on that as well. As you know, where someone is finding their edge, like, where are they improving versus just repeating the same things they already know? And kind of in all of that, where does the you know, if you wrap it all up with the hormones in our body. How do you see the adrenaline and the resulting endorphins and dopamine kind of connecting with each other?
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Because we can love the adrenaline, but what we really love is the release after the adrenaline, right? I didn't like, yeah, so there was a lot to everything you said there. So you pick where you want to start, what kind of hit hit you as a thing worth following up on?
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Yeah, okay, so, I mean, the guys that know me and and I'll listen to this when it, when it gets released, will know that my cold water therapy things are pretty big deal in my life. So yeah, I think the Cold War, I started doing cold, cold plunges. I mean, properly, religiously, about three years ago, and I've not, I've not missed a day since then. So every single morning, three minutes at six degrees or below, regardless wherever I am. I mean, that can be baths, it can be showers, it can be in my actual ice bath that I've got.
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Yeah, okay, it doesn't matter as long as some sort of cold exposure, but and I certainly don't. I don't feel the cold as much. I still my hands still go like everyone does, but I can certainly last in the water a lot longer now, in the winter, I'm in a three mil suit, just a Camaro three mil, just a super skin. It's not fine. I don't feel I don't feel it, um, and my body and I can ski normally. So I'm still short line passes, still full speed. And I guess the cold water therapy for me is twofold. There is that whole medical side of it that people debate quite a lot. And there's a lot of us that debate over here who are quite, quite knowledgeable about it, whether it is good for the brown fat cells, whether it's inflammation, etc. I don't really mind debating that with people. It's each to their own.
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For me, I kind of go down more of a mental side of it, that if I can get into six degree water or break an ice bath, it let's minus five minus six at half past five in the morning and get in that for three minutes and survive. You can pretty much tackle anything during that day.
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And it means when you're standing on that dock at like, a world championships or a European Championships, it's, yeah, okay, it's nerve wracking, and you're you're starting to think and get buzzed up for a bit. You can it makes a lot easier, because you've already conquered something that's pretty difficult mentally to go short term sacrifice, long term gain. I've got get into it's not, there's a saying that doesn't get any colder the longer you wait together. So, yeah, I think that's the first thing definitely, I think, for for us to try and continue that our sport, which is very much seasonal in most countries in the world, depending where you are, it's, it's not a bad way of trying to get yourself acclimatized, I suppose, to being able to do that and trying to get your season last a little bit longer or start a little bit earlier. So I think that's that first point, definitely, for me, is is a big thing, and it's something I like to do. And there is, there is some proven stuff about sort of longevity with it, and it's helping the health. Up in the body stressed for the body isn't always a bad thing, as long as it's the right type of stress. And that's definitely from my opinion.
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Anyway, one of the good things,
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it's, it's something I've I've been doing the cold shower Since 2017 started ice baths about three years ago. We bought one to put up with us with a sauna, which is really nice to do the hot and the cold. Yeah, I absolutely love them. And for all the reasons you're describing, you know, it extends your season. When I started doing them, one of the, one of the funny things when I, I've skied with Austin for years, and I used to jump in the water, and it could be, you know, 75 degrees, and I'd go, oh, you know, like, it's too cold, right? And now I, when I step in, I don't even really feel the cold, and it doesn't matter what temperature it is. And I used to go to a dry suit at 60 degrees Fahrenheit, which is, you know, what's that going to be? Like, 12 degrees Celsius, yeah, something like that. Yeah, yeah.
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So, so I'd go, I'd go to a wet suit, I mean, a dry suit at that temperature. And I don't even own a dry suit now. And we'll, we'll ski down to 55 or 50 degrees. We do have to winterize our boats. So we, we do have to shut down. I'll go down to Florida sometimes in the in the winter. But it, it makes those fringes so much better. So there's that, but it's less
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it's less variables, though, isn't it?
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It's one less variable for you to worry about, variables in our sport. So that's one less one you can you can control.
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It takes it away, but you're what you hit, because we're both coaches. I have to talk about that mental game piece, because I would say, Even still, I have to remind myself I can do this, because I don't want to get in the cold water right before I get in, like, there is still a part of me that's like, that's going to be miserable and it's cold. And what's absolutely amazing is to have the mental tools that are greater than the pressure of the cold, yep. Cuz I think in terms of pressure of, in other words, so much of what we let get to us is the scene, thing, the pressure of the competition, the pressure of the, you know, we think it's the competition, or it's the the mistake or whatever. But it's not any of that. It's the pressure of it that creates the problem. And so if you can overcome your mental chatter and use your mental tools to say, I can do this, then you raise your pressure threshold every single day. So you know, it's not just about are you better on the dock because you because you're able to get in the cold water, but you're better on the dot because your pressure threshold is higher?
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Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. I think that's kind of it's half the balance our brains. I'm not, I wouldn't say I'm an expert on it, but I've done a lot of reading and research on on sports psychology side of in I see a sports therapist now as well, just to kind of help, because I did go through some some stages within my very short career competitively, where I it did get the best of me, and I needed to identify that. And that was the most difficult part, is identifying that. Okay, normally, you're really good at all these sports, and you don't normally have an issue with that. Issue with that when you're younger, but you get older, your your mentality changes. You you start looking at things in a different, different light, and you need to adapt yourself to be able to kind of hone in on that. And definitely, I think we're our brains are wired like that, survival instinct. You've got to keep yourself comfortable and cozy and warm, because that's what the caveman had to do back in the day. You know, that's how you survive, whereas we need to be able to push ourselves out with those comfort zones, or I wouldn't even say that comfort zone, you're actually in a good position to be able to do everything you want to be able to do. And sometimes, if you just push yourself outside the comfort zone, you go into a survival zone, and that isn't a bad place to be some of the time, but if you're living in that all the time, yeah, it's not so great. But I certainly, for me, feel like I do a lot more positive work and perform better when I'm in my comfort zone. I i am comfortable being in those positions because I have done the work in advance of that to put myself being comfortable. Sorry, being comfortable, being uncomfortable, which makes all those sort of situations a lot easier for me to kind of deal with. I mean, we'll watch this space this season, see if it, if the off seasons worked. But certainly last season there was, there was glimpses of that working and helping so
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well there's that's that space, what you're describing, I call froth. And so think about when we get agitated, we feel something, and pressure creates agitation. But if you shake up a can of soda, you get froth, right? Or I think of it, I like the analogy of the ocean, where there's a little bit of the new and a little bit of the old, but you won't get any new. If you don't create a little agitation, because the brain just doesn't have any reason to change. And, I mean, you do
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get what you get a lot of people like that that say, after a competition, or if they've never competed, they say, I could have done that. We could have, I could have, maybe got that score. I could, yeah, yeah, do it. I mean, there's you can say that all you all you want, but put your money where your mouth is, in nice a sense, and go and do those because that will help you advance, and it will give you that sort of the buzz and that sort of little bit of adrenaline pump and that to make sure you keep going.
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There's a guy that we've started competing with this year's first season last year, and he's buzzing from it, absolutely buzzing from it. And he, he, he the first competition went to was a nervous wreck, and he, and he didn't know what to do, but after he completed any ski pretty well, he was really happy. He got that bug, and that's he's hooked. There's the addiction piece again. There you
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go, once you get that well. And it may be the addiction of that, like adrenaline then dopamine sort of cycle, which is what we are designed to do to raise that pressure threshold. You know, you don't get the dopamine and the endorphins unless you get the adrenaline first, at least, that's what the bio the scientists that I've talked to have told me. So,
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yeah, I'm sure Huberman will be able to tell us that when it becomes, well, I
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don't, and by the way, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pitch Andrew Huberman right now because he he managed to score an interview with Josh Waitzkin. Oh yeah. And the only person that has ever done that is Tim Ferriss. And Josh waitskin has been on Ferris's podcast three times, but he's the closest coach to the way I coach that I've ever heard. And so I listened to him.
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I love hearing how Joshua thinks about it, because he languages it so beautifully. You know, he uses language like unobstructed learning. And it's like, Yes, that's what I've been trying to say. That's what I mean by creative spirits unleash, you know. So, so I'm going to pitch Huberman on that, but, but, you know that that like, I remember when I first started learning to ski, and I started late in life.
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I think I was 46 when I first saw slalom course, and I started, and I got a chance to go to the water ski in 2007 and eight water ski magazine, when it still existed, did like a water ski fantasy camp. And I was at both of them. And at the first one I this was like a dream. I got to Marcus Brown was my coach, but Terry winter was riding with him, and Matt Rennie was my driver, and I had, you can't get better than that. It's like superstars. And, you know, I and I didn't even know enough to be nervous, because I didn't know Skiing World that well until later. But I had heard from somebody else. I'd skied with Thomas More over at Drew Ross's Lake, like the year before, and Thomas More said, You need to go ski with Matt Rennie. I was like, I don't know who Matt Rennie is, but fine.
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Whatever. You know, that's kind of where I was. And so as I was skiing those three guys. There's this, I've got a picture of me behind the 2007 master craft tournament team boat of that which I happen to own now, of that year. And you can see that Marcus is supposed to be coaching me, and he is. He's looking at me. He and Terry are also talking. But you see Matt watching me in the mirror, and after like, a couple of passes, Matt took over. Even though Marcus was coaching, Matt stood up and goes, Lynn, do this. And it made all the difference. And so one day I was down, and later I went to ski with Matt. Again, that's all the build up to say.
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I ended up skiing with Matt for years, and I don't know how many times I've been down to ski with him. This is his page. Was just learning how to ski, by the way, but he I, and maybe it was in a tailwind or something. But we got to the other end of the lake, we dropped, and he yelled at me, Lynn, if you don't learn how to get out of your comfort zone, you're never going to run a tailwind pass. There you go.
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And I was, I was kind of, I needed, like, I needed that shock, like, that's the kind of thing that creates enough agitation to get me off ground zero. And, you know, I'm sure you've experienced this as a coach, because you said something very important a few minutes ago. You said, there is a point at which people will go into survival mode and then they can't learn anything. Yeah,
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yeah, they do. And you see that especially in our sport, our sports really bad for that, because they think they're safe. They think, say, for instance, going through the week, they want to clamp up or something like that, because they think I'll get into a ball, I'll be in a safe position, whereas the I kind of say to them, whatever feels uncomfortable is normally correct in our sport, because it doesn't feel right what you're doing, but actually is the right thing for what you're trying to achieve. And but I think you say something questions, and Matt saying that to you, but I'm sure a couple of other people have probably said something similar, but just different words, but it resonated more with you. So you can I found that a lot, especially in the last couple of years, you're maybe trying to teach somebody something. Them, and you've said ABC, and it's just not landing with them. So you then go XYZ. It's the same thing, but it's just different words, and all of a sudden, boom, light bulb moment, yeah, and, and that's kind of where it goes. It's that's kind of the best part of being a coach is when you see that, like, sort of realization, and that, that sort of athlete's face, or they just go out and they do exactly what you're saying. They see the enjoyment that they've got because they've actually okay now, because this is what's so annoying about our our sporting frustration is it's so difficult to coach. It's not like, um, rugby or football or American football, whereas you can sort of pause it, stop the person, move their position, show them how to throw the ball better, or show them how to kick better.
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You're trying to do it looking behind you while looking forward. To keep it straight, trying to get that little five to 10 seconds, or whatever you've got of nugget of information when they've dropped in at the end of the past to go try do this. Yeah, you've got to be really strategic, really logical, really clear, really concise about what you're trying to do, but still explain it enough that they actually understand it. And that's what's probably one of the more unique things about our sport is that we can't physically stop somebody midway through a pass in the water and move their position into the right way. No, they have to be told that then feel it, and once they kind of feel it, then their body starts to have muscle memory, and everything starts to link in.
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But that's why our sport takes a lot longer to learn, and we lose a lot of people, because we all know, we all remember what it was like trying to get up on one ski out of the water. It's always a bet, if one gets really well and two skis, they get good, and then you try and put them on one ski, and you lose 50% of your, that's right, your clientele and stuff. So this is rubbish. I'm getting cold or I'm just getting frustrated. And that's why we lose a lot of people, because there's that big mountain that they've got to be be consistent at and keep plowing at it, and that's when you then get the fruits of your labor, because then you start to be able to enjoy the sport that isn't it's like that, sort of like the the gates are opening for you once you go over that hill. So you can then get into the great part of our sport, because getting told behind the boat in two skis, it's fun. It's not as fun. No, no, it's fun as slalom skiing, full, full metal jacket at like 12 meters or something, getting getting slingshot. There's nothing like that. So, yeah, it's there's certainly some sort of underlying thread or deep, meaningful sort of philosophy there whereby you've got to continue doing that to get the fruits of your labor. So yeah, in
00:27:26.059 --> 00:28:23.900
my mind, in slalom, there's two major hurdles. It's the getting up on one slalom ski. And I think you lose a lot of people right there. And then there's that 15 off to 22 off hump, because that bump, I don't care what boat you're behind, the 15 off versus 22 off. And and I started, like, a couple of years ago, I just, and I haven't gone much past 22 but I'm like, Austin, we're just going to stay at 22 and then I don't have to, like, feel the difference. And what's amazing is, you know, and I had, I had some real head problems with the 22 off hop years ago, to the point where I just, you know, quit trying like that, trying, you know, they we didn't lose me as a skier, but we lost me as somebody trying to advance for a while, and then once you do it enough, then you don't even notice the bump anymore. Like, really good skiers are like, what pump? And it's like, those of us on the other side is like, well, we can tell you about the bump. About the bump.
00:28:23.900 --> 00:28:27.859
Yeah? No, we have, we have those conversations a lot. Yeah. I feel you there.
00:28:28.219 --> 00:28:44.979
Yeah. And so that's the interesting thing about the sport is, but you hit on the most important thing is, you're making 1000 balance corrections every path, whether you're a 15 mouth skier or a 39 off skier.
00:28:40.538 --> 00:29:04.919
You're it's a very dynamic sport, and there's very specific positions, especially at key elements, but, but many, many frames in those in those in every pass where you can make a difference, and the only person that can do it is you back there by yourself going, what feels likely. You called it full metal jacket, you know, by yourself.
00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:12.118
And you can't even, like, wear earbuds where the coach could say, do this or do that while you're skiing, you know. Well,
00:29:12.118 --> 00:29:14.939
well, we do, we do?
00:29:12.118 --> 00:29:49.838
You do? Oh, wait, yeah, we, yeah. So we've got, we've got Beth tech, whereby they're, like, they're waterproof headphones, Bluetooth to a form, and we have the conversation. So we've tried it. It's it certainly got his pros and its cons from the guys that one of the guys at ski with it was his sort of, he'd seen it, and he kind of had some tech that we used. And it works for certain skiers. I don't think it works if you're proper running the course and you're in it, but the guys that are learning to maybe run the slalom course for the first time, or try and understand that, or for beginners, trying to get the right position through the week.
00:29:47.499 --> 00:30:00.659
I mean, that's Matt reenies major thing, isn't he always wants to see what position you are through the week. He can sort everything else out. But as long as you're doing that well, and that's what he always looks for, then it's great for that.
00:29:57.638 --> 00:30:19.199
And. But yeah, when you're traveling it, yeah, like, you say 36 miles an hour, sort of like, I don't know, threatening off. It's probably not what you want in the in your back, your head. But certainly for some of the beginners we've we've certainly used it, and it's and it's worked so far. It's just, it's just not as consistent. You always, sometimes lose connection on all those sort of things. But yeah, there is just ways.
00:30:19.259 --> 00:30:49.719
There's, well, that's that that, actually, I've never had that there. I've done it horseback riding. We put earbuds in when I first did some of my first reigning lessons, where he could be on the phone and and he could talk to me. And the problem is that I the earbuds keep falling out, and you don't want him to fall in the dirt, and then the horse steps on it and or you have to find it. It's like finding an Easter egg out there and all that dirt so, and in the lake, you know, it'd be just sank to the bottom. So we it has to be something you're not going to lose. Yeah, it's
00:30:49.719 --> 00:31:26.419
normally the ones that kind of wrap around your head and then tie into your vest or something. But, yeah, there's, there's, there's always, you know, what we're like As humans, we always find a way around things. So we really, really want to find it. Yeah, and it was just something that he he used him cycling. And he remember speaking to one of his friends, I think New cycling is like, this should work. We're only going to be 18 meters away from from each other, so it's not like we're miles away from each other. So it should work, yeah. And it did. And it has benefits. Some people, we've not used it as much, but certainly for some people where they're maybe really struggling to just know when to move or when to change that position slightly.
00:31:23.719 --> 00:31:31.878
It's always good, because you know what it's like. You've got a 6.2 liter engine. It's pretty hard to shout over that when somebody's
00:31:32.359 --> 00:31:48.400
Oh, but if you're austin, you know, I ski with Austin able at Mystic waters, at able ski school, and so one of the things that I hear in the summer, all summer long, as I hear Austin's booming voice going, turn, turn.
00:31:42.819 --> 00:32:06.059
And you know what, what is amazing is how much earlier you need to turn than you think you need to turn. Yep, and that's why he's yelling it. Because even with some of the better skiers, you know, as he's moving them up the up the line, understanding that you can start that turn,
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:27.740
you know, yeah, quite the perception of the perception of the course is everything, and it's it changes each time that you're you move either a speed up or you move a rope length down. It's the perception of the course changes, and your your pivot point so your turn, you're breaking the boy line changes, and that's as you like you say.
00:32:27.740 --> 00:32:36.319
You get used to 22 offer, and then you get, okay, that's where I turn. And all of a sudden you cut the line, and you're like, Whoa. Okay, where'd I turn now?
00:32:33.380 --> 00:32:52.480
And everything feels faster. I feel the boys a bit closer to me now, or I'm not as wide. I feel narrower it's, everything changes. And there's a lot of weird sort of, it's like you're a quantum math mathematician in your head trying to work out where I need to get better angle here I need to, I need to turn in later and to turn in earlier.
00:32:52.480 --> 00:33:14.099
There's so many like, you say variances. And when you start going up speeds and down lines, it's, it can be quite frustrating, because you get the hang of one and you're like, it's only a meter difference, or it's only three, three clicks of a difference. Wow, yeah. How can this be so so alien to me, but it's all about rhythm and and using that to your advantage.
00:33:14.099 --> 00:33:28.160
But if you're not used to your body, your body's at whack. So yes, is it? That's what makes it so addictive, I guess, because you're never going to complete it. Are you? It's no matter if you're Nate Smith and you've got three boys at 43 you're still want more. So yeah,
00:33:28.220 --> 00:34:33.559
well, that's that. When I first started learning to ski, I spent a lot of time down at COVID ski school, you know, with April and Chris, and maybe first or second time I was down there, Chris said something that really struck me. He said, You know, our sport always ends in failure, and that's a great way of looking at it. Yeah. I was like, Oh yeah, because you basically just keep going until you can't go anymore, and then you're done. And the the thing that struck me watching like I got to watch Nate Smith, he's he's been to our lake a couple of times, and one day, I decided to not video while riding in the boat watching him, because what I've learned about video is you don't really see in the video, which you can see in real life, for one thing, but also it takes you out of the moment, like it puts a wall of reality Between you and what's happening so against my better judgment, except it was really good judgment. This day I put the ski, I put the phone down and just watched him, because this is the best for those of people listening that don't know water skiing or Nate Smith's name.
00:34:33.679 --> 00:34:43.360
He's dramatically the best water skier of our era, and what he's run the 41 off past several multiples of all the people combined. Yeah,
00:34:43.420 --> 00:34:52.000
there was a weird stat that came out on twbc. I think he's ran it more times than all the rest of the guys who have run it have run it.
00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:53.320
That makes sense. So I think there was some sort of stat,
00:34:53.559 --> 00:35:48.338
and that's some multiple, like he's way over 100 and there's only what 13 or 14 people total that have ever run it. Period. And most of them, you know, are happy if they've run it twice or three times in a tournament. You know, some of them have a handful or more, but, you know, you just start doing that math, and it's just nuts. So, So Nate, just something. He figured something out. And my, my quest that day was to say, what has he figured out? So I watched him, and all of a sudden I like, I hit I said to Austin. I said, Austin, mistakes. Don't throw him. I thought he was going to be making less mistakes, but he actually doesn't like when I watched him ski, he was off balance. As often as any I've been in the I've had the good fortune, thanks to the water ski thing and going to all these ski schools. I've been in the boat with a lot of the best skiers.
00:35:45.219 --> 00:36:21.739
I've skied, when Andy Mapple was here with us, I skied. I was with him. I watched Wade Cox, I've watched Marcus Brown, I've watched Thomas de gaspery. I've watched will Asher, you know, so I've, I've been in the boat with a lot of good skiers. And I and Chris Lapointe, you know, one of the greatest of all time. I've Chris is probably the closest to Nate in terms of not letting mistakes throw him. Nate literally just kept rebalancing, rebalancing, rebalancing. And one of the things that I think about a lot is what's happening in the space between the space.
00:36:19.378 --> 00:36:28.099
This is one of the things I share with Josh. You know, Josh Waitzkin talks to this about this a lot. What are the frames that are unseen in transition?
00:36:28.099 --> 00:36:41.378
Yeah. And in water skiing, I think it's that what you do when you've made a mistake, because you know your turn is over if the mistake is bad enough, yep.
00:36:36.498 --> 00:37:00.539
And I think some people me, included, more used to than I do now, because I've been working on it, get lost when they make a mistake, like they go, Oh crap, I'm done. Gotta fix it. And then they start over and under reacting Nate, I think that's it. Yeah, Nate feels his way through. And I was talking to him at the Malibu open one time.
00:37:00.539 --> 00:37:09.418
And I said, you know, I've never seen anybody ski with the kind of feel you have. And his eyes lit up, like you get it. And I said, but you're not going to tell me any more than that. He goes, nope.
00:37:11.219 --> 00:38:14.099
I mean, yeah, Secrets of the trade. I think, I think you've got it bang on here, because you see, as soon as somebody makes a mistake, they over. I think it's overreact. I don't think it's I think maybe, okay, maybe one, one time out of 10, it's under react. But I think nine times out of 10 you see them overreact. So, like, they maybe don't get the right turn, so they pull like hell trying to get across. They've got too much speed, or they've overturned it, they've over cracked it, they've hooked up to it, they've, they've, they've tried to do everything too quickly, and it's a natural thing. Like, I know myself, like, when you're traveling at that sort of speed across the wake, your mind's trying to get ahead of yourself, to preempt what you're going to do. Because sometimes your body's actually engaging before your brain's engaging, and then it's you're going too quick. So yeah, I think definitely the overreaction thing and the feel and the ski, I think there's, I think it was Crystal Point and said it would maybe bobble. I can't remember which one, but the person that that will win skiing will be the person that moves least on the ski. And I think that's probably right. And you do see that the balance point of the skis, the balance point of the ski, for a reason, it's the best place to be on it.
00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:28.398
It's going to it's going to grip it's going to speed up when it needs to. It's going to slow down when it needs to. But you see so many people move about so much on ski, and sometimes that's as easy as them trying to stay a bit bit still or on your ski and see how it feels.
00:38:25.818 --> 00:38:46.539
Because you see a lot of people there, they're leaning, they're on the back foot, and begin to turn the slam down front foot, trying to slow the ski down, and and so, yeah, I think you I think that's one of the big things, is be patient, is a lot of thing, but it a lot of people say, be patient. And that automatically makes people go, I'm not going to do anything.
00:38:43.119 --> 00:39:32.478
It's it's be patient with your intensity and your your sort of intention to do it instead of just doing nothing like and that's sometimes the way that the coaches say it. If they say, be patient, be patient, people don't do anything. They just stand still and wait. Whereas if you say, be patient with your intention, then it kind of understands, right? Okay, I've still got to have that intensity. I've still got to move quickly, but I just maybe delay that initiation of that movement ever so slightly so it gets a better rhythm. I think Corey says that quite a bit when he's coaching as well. It's, it's certainly but, yeah, be paid. Don't hate that. He hates the word patient, but it's trying to keep that intensity, but just try not to move as quickly as you're going to or open up as quick as you want. So yeah, it's quite an interesting one. It feels feels alien. It feels completely counterintuitive, but it's sometimes the right
00:39:33.079 --> 00:40:01.980
thing to do. Well, it's so back to that feel thing. One of the principles I work with a lot is to be the conduit, which is, let the thing tell you what to do. And so a different way of being patient, because I agree with, well, first of all, a lot of people just are allergic to being patient. Yeah, you know, but, but that's at the at the at the apex of the turn before the ski comes back under you.
00:39:57.639 --> 00:40:14.699
There's this, like. Moment of vulnerability. And I think our brains say, if we don't get our other hand back on the handle and get the ski back really quick, we're slide, we're going to fall. And we don't really think about how the centrifugal force is going to hold us up.
00:40:14.699 --> 00:40:23.900
And I don't know that I've ever seen anybody other than maybe Adam Caldwell at 41 off like slammed down at that point. You know,
00:40:25.219 --> 00:40:26.838
they still got back up, though, didn't
00:40:27.199 --> 00:40:30.739
he got back up? We should.
00:40:27.199 --> 00:41:02.280
We should put that in the podcast notes that was in a crazy, a crazy day where he skied away from the fall, but, but the that moment is where our bodies and brains, especially our whatever the survival part is, which is, I think both body and brain is like, you gotta hurry or you're gonna die. And I think it's that moment where we're saying, Let the centrifugal force take you. So be the conduit. The ski will let the ski do what the ski is gonna do, yeah. And when I remember that, it's magical.
00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:05.219
Oh yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
00:41:07.619 --> 00:41:22.519
I just had this moment of thinking, because that puts me on the ski course, and it's here we are recording this in late January. It'll be at least six weeks before I probably get to be on a water ski. But you've just this conversation has just made me crave it all the more.
00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:22.880
This is what the addiction is about.
00:41:23.420 --> 00:41:28.280
I'll be, I'll be in the water tomorrow, not rubbing it in, but I'll be, I'll be, I'll be skiing tomorrow. Yeah,
00:41:28.340 --> 00:41:32.300
well, your boat's not winterized, and you don't have, no, you don't have ice. I have ice.
00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:51.159
Yeah, yeah. We've not. I'm hoping we don't get ice overnight. But, yeah, we should be, we should be okay. We're fortunate. We're fortunate that the other boats are winter ice, but our school still going. So, yeah, no, I'll, I'll certainly be thinking about that. I can guarantee you my opening pass on that my boy won't be thinking about that force going, don't rush, don't rush.
00:41:52.300 --> 00:42:35.539
But at the same moment, I'm going to draw it over to another two other parallels, because you run a business, and I want to draw it to a business parallel in a second. But the other parallel was just last week, I was in Oklahoma riding reining horses, and I'll be on one this afternoon. So that's my winter thing, especially. And what I realized last week, it was the first time ever I was on a very nice horse, and had some really magnificent coaching about letting the horse move me and not bracing. Because the beautiful thing, especially at the at the lope, or the cantor, loping in circles, is letting the horse I used to be so tired after one circle that I'd have to stop because I was worn out.
00:42:32.900 --> 00:43:14.219
And that why? Because I was working too hard. I was doing exactly what you described on the ski. I was like, not on the balance point I was moving. And remember, the balance point is always moving, yep. So you have to stay on the balance point, not to be over and under reacting. And I do think our brains kind of like to find a position and hold it rather than be fluid and dynamic. So they were teaching me how to be fluid and dynamic and really feel the horse as we moved. And there was a period where I could ride in circles with this horse, and we were in flow for, I don't even know how many circles, and I was like, and this is water skiing,
00:43:15.059 --> 00:43:17.699
yeah, the feeling was right, yes, amazing. The
00:43:17.699 --> 00:43:25.099
feeling is the same, and that's what we do it for and then take that over to business.
00:43:21.378 --> 00:43:30.199
You know, what does it look like to be the conduit in business?
00:43:25.099 --> 00:43:33.378
And so I'd be curious what, how you make sense of that question, because you're running a business.
00:43:34.460 --> 00:43:50.320
Yeah, it's a tricky one that the business side of it's always, always an interesting topic, a conversation, especially if we just take it to uniquely water skiing in in Scotland, then it's, it's quite a niche sport.
00:43:50.320 --> 00:44:01.679
It's not, it's not as big as it is over, over in your, your neck of the woods, by any stretch of the imagination. And we have got, we've got a good, a good ski sort of community there.
00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:51.639
We've got, probably, I would say, four stroke five recognized ski sites with slalom courses in whole of Scotland, kind of ranging from sort of north to south, which is which is fantastic. And there's a bit of a cable weight boarding site, and it's quite large now, and boat weight boards, kind of there or thereabouts. But there's certainly a community there, and I think it's so we're always in, not to sound negative, but we're always up against it. We're always want to grow the sport. We want to get more people involved in it. We want to kind of push that out there so people know, know about it. And I think certainly, when I started skiing, it was our site that is, is now the national training site. Is, was was known as Scotland, or the city that it's in, Dunfermline, best kept secret, which is not really what you want your business to to be. A secret.
00:44:46.480 --> 00:45:07.619
Yeah, yeah. I think that kind of defeats the purpose of having it, doesn't it? And I think it's, it's trying to move away from the perception of what the sport is, I think the perception what. Was that it was an old boys club, or it was only for affluent people, or it was only if you lived in that area, that's only thing you could do.
00:45:07.619 --> 00:45:45.219
And we've certainly tried to change that ethos to the to the extent whereby it's, it's for everyone. It doesn't matter who you are. You can, you can come, see, come and learn. It's, it's definitely accessible now, and because of the model that we operate, you can pretty much ski unlimitedly, for with all your competition equipment, everything for around about 2000 pounds for a full year. Like if you compare that to a golf membership, it's it's so much cheaper, because people see that once will be expensive. But you compare that to other sports, such as even even athletics. You You pay a membership. You've got all the competition things, you've got all the equipment.
00:45:45.219 --> 00:46:46.599
You before you know it, you spent that money, whereas you spend that in one fell swoop, and you basically unlimited skiing, all your competition equipment, all your coaching, everything's all all included in that so, and that's how we've found that we've brought more people into the sport because it's accessible. So you're you're appealing to people who may never have looked at it. And I guess that's listening like it's in being a constant, listening to what the market saying, just to what the world in general saying, is that we want to help people get into sport, health, fair, lifestyles, all that sort of, all the buzz words, but in reality, that is a fact, and then it's also the mental health side. But we all we were speaking just before we we started recording about COVID and how we've zooms become like one of the best things that came out of it, because we can connect to people and during COVID and stuff, we were one of the only sports and one of the only centers that were allowed to open because we could. We were outside, we had social distancing and and it was helping people's mental health.
00:46:44.199 --> 00:47:27.739
People getting outside, they were enjoying stuff, they were socializing, they were safe. And I guess that's one of the things is, and that still continues even to now, you come out, you you have a community, you meet your friends, you meet new people, you grow as a person. So to be the content is listening to that and finding out what people want, listen to what your members and your customers are saying to you, and kind of trying to adapt it. This our sites gone from it looked tired three and a half, four years ago, and it was just kind of, you turn up ski go, that's a pain play. That's then we've trying to change that to become a proper club. It's a members facility. It's open to the public. There's cafes, there's there's other things to do.
00:47:27.739 --> 00:47:30.199
There's a community side of it.
00:47:27.739 --> 00:47:43.179
There's pool tables, there's table tennis, all those sort of things, transferring slack buttons. So we've got that community aspect, but it's also a three event and international rankings site. So you can you can jump to record capability, you can slalom, you can trick.
00:47:43.179 --> 00:48:04.320
We've got top of range boats, all of those things, but that's because we've listened to what people said. It'd be nice to get a new boat, or it'd be really nice if we had that. And it's you have a list as long as your arm and a notepad, and you hear that just can't happen right now. It's not going to happen overnight and but it's just ticking those things off. And I actually did that the other day.
00:48:02.099 --> 00:48:52.539
I kind of went back through the list, and I've seen, I've pretty much tipped off 90% of the things that people have asked for us to have or to do, and there's only a couple of little things left that we're planning for, but they're seeing the value for it. They're seeing that they're paying their membership, or they're paying their their fee to come and ski with us, but they're getting all of this on top of what they were before, which is just, you're getting told by important, and you're getting waved goodbye, see later now you get to have all these sort of things. And have a barbecue, stay with your friends, have have a party, whatever it's going to be. You can kind of do that. So, yeah, I think that's kind of, from a business perspective, is is listening to that, jot it down, but not overwhelming yourself and trying to do it all overnight. It's just slowly and steadily. And say, the ratio of you say you're going to do it, do it have that 100% Yeah?
00:48:49.719 --> 00:48:53.320
Because if it's not, people are just going to lose
00:48:54.340 --> 00:49:59.019
faith. Yeah. That's actually, that's really brilliant. And one of the things I coach, mostly business leaders, few athletes, but mostly business leaders. And the this particular principle of be the conduit which you know. What does that mean? Let them tell you what to do, when to do, how to do that hits most people right in the solar plexus, because they're like, wait a minute, I'm supposed to know what to do, when to do, how to do right like on the and what I hear from what you just said is the key word you listen and and if you think about it, it actually makes a ton of sense what you've done, because we can only ski for 15 minutes, and we got one set. If we're going to ski two sets in a day, there's rest time. We, most people need minimum of 30 minutes, if not, you know, an hour, well, what are you going to do for 30 minutes or an hour? You're going to socialize with the other people. Maybe you can pick up a ping pong or a pool game, or, you know, have like you. You what you did was fill in the blanks, because the sport doesn't do it for you, because you're not doing the sport all the time.
00:49:59.500 --> 00:50:28.940
We try. Can do a bit of both. We have that aspect whereby it's that community side of it, but we also try and get people involved in the actual sport. Because you know yourself that the amount of officials that we have in the sport is is so low, so it's trying to get people, do you want to come in, jump in the boat and, like, especially if I'm skiing, be the judge in the boat. Call my gates, which some people love doing, surprisingly enough, um, but yeah, like, call the gates, call, how many boys that you got and stuff. Like to get them used to that official sport.
00:50:26.599 --> 00:50:31.940
Brilliant. Learn, learn to drive the boat. You know, just understanding how to do that.
00:50:31.940 --> 00:51:47.679
And we do all the different qualifications, because in Britain, it's a little bit different. But we do all the boat driving qualification. We do, we offer to train up officials and whatnot as well for the British water skim Federation. So we can do all those things, because it's trying to impact that, because we want to be able to hold more events up here. And we did our first one in 10 years last year, full international. We realized we didn't have enough officials who were trying to plow them through. Now we've just launched our three events, so we've got a proper three event rankings and another slalom event this year that's there so, but it's trying to get everyone involved on them. But it's when we're it's a bit like when I'm coaching is I'm listening to them, but it's also we, we call it discovery learning, and whereby we're asking them, what? So if that sets gone wrong, or that past has gone wrong. Say, for instance, ask them, What did you feel went wrong? Because nine times out of 10 they probably do feel it, and they try, and then you're saying, Yeah, I agree. Or there is that nugget sometimes that they don't have a clue, and you have to try and do the five whys kind of kind of ooze out of them so they can kind of understand it. Because, yeah, you can just go, this is what went wrong. That's not going to resonate well with them. And I guess that's the same in business as if you just kind of go, this is what we're doing.
00:51:47.679 --> 00:52:12.179
This is what we're doing. This is what we're doing. It's not going to work. There has to be an element of both. There has to be that balance of going, if I just listen to everything you guys tell me, and try and go around and run and do 100 things, I'm going to do 100 things, not very well. Whereas, if I can take five of those things and do them really well, it's going to it's going to impress people, and they're going to be happy, they're going to be they're going to be more engaged with it. So, yeah, there's, there's definitely that balance there. I think certainly
00:52:12.239 --> 00:53:32.778
that's that, well, you just hit something. I actually used to call it this myself when I was in banking, Discovery Learning and when I took over credit training. Training. It was credit training was the bid department. Many, many years ago at the bank I worked for, they were doing lectures and basically telling you how to be bankers, and it looked like the learning yield was about 10% and that's really low. So I looked at how to increase it, and had a phenomenal team around me of people who were courageous and willing to do this. And we flipped it where we made the, you know, the students that came in, we gave them a treasure hunt when they first got there, instead of showing them around like kings and queens. Because what I found is, if you showed when we showed them around the first round, we did. We treated them like kings and queens, and they started acting like kings and queens, which really didn't work, because then they think they have all the power. So we we switched it, and they loved it. And the feedback we got back from the field when we set the bankers out, where these are the best tradies we've ever had, because discovery learning was more like a 75% learning yield, because they had to actually go make the mistakes and correct it themselves. Yeah, definitely, we we celebrated the mistakes as opposed to trying to get them to stop them.
00:53:33.679 --> 00:53:46.539
But you would remember your mistake in this nice sense. It's weird how it works, but you automatically remember your mistakes more than what you've achieved normally, if that makes sense. So you always remember, like, oh, I can still somebody says, What was the worst part of last season?
00:53:46.539 --> 00:54:00.719
What? What bit Did you muck up on? You can pinpoint it and go, I didn't turn that boy correctly, or I came out the front, or something along those lines. It's, yeah, you remember that, and you learn from it, and you try not to make that mistake again. So yeah, I totally, I totally agree with that?
00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:01.260
Totally, yeah,
00:54:01.320 --> 00:54:41.500
it was, I think that's just amazing. The other thing you said that I want to really highlight, because I saw this on your website, and I was like, this is incredible. You teach people how to drive the boat, and I don't let me, let me just stipulate I drive slalom and I drive Austin, so I drive into 41 off learning to do that was and he's not there. I mean, I've driven several people through 39 off, but it's, it's not a small thing, no. And just to have somebody trust you to do that is a big deal. So how I don't drive trick, I don't drive jump, but tell me about that program, because that sounds amazing.
00:54:42.280 --> 00:54:42.760
Yeah,
00:54:42.760 --> 00:56:15.780
no. So, I mean, we so war skiing, weight board, Scotland and British water scheme weight board are kind of enjoying both governing bodies of the country offer what we call SBDS, so speed boat driver and to work at a ski school. In Britain, every driver needs to have that for insurance purposes. So it's a bit like your driving test. It's the basic so it's like you are trusted to be in control of a vessel on your own, and you've got to have it first aid. You've got to have sort of your disclosure checks, all those sort of things. But that's kind of the entry into it. So you can, you can drive a boat on open waters and stuff like that in Scotland or closed water, sorry, in Scotland, without a license. But for the ski schools that this is what we offer. So we've got a couple of principals in the in the country, one of them, be me, is that we we train people how to drive that specific course, and then once they've passed their their level two, they can then go on to their level three, which is sort of an advanced driver module, but it also focuses on slalom and tournament on the skiing side anyway, and that kind of gives them an understanding, again, very basic understanding and entry level to be able to tow something slalom, so they have to go through, like a theory test as well. So it's, it's questions that you'll be able to answer really, really quickly off top your head, like, what color of rope is 22 off, what is the color of the rope for? 39 off, all those sort of things. So they understand that.
00:56:13.559 --> 00:57:05.460
So when they're cutting the rope, they are aware of what rope they're blowing, and also certain aspects of, if you've got a strong headwind coming to the pre gates, where would you line the boat up? How would you offset it? And then once they've passed that, then they start coming in with me more often, while I'm skiing, boss, while I'm driving, the guys that are are serious short line skiers, so they can understand the give and take. You're the guinea pig, isn't that fun? Yeah, I'm always, I'm always the guinea pig, especially at my site, because at the end of the day, my members pay money to be told correctly, and I want my drivers to be able to talk correctly. So it's only fair that, and I think, and I mean this in a nicer sense, in the great respect to the members, I feel like I can feedback and have a little bit more of a joke with it. So they they take I can go, Whoa, you were way off on that boy. But don't worry about it.
00:57:05.460 --> 00:57:24.619
Just try and do it, because I can feel it, and I can give them the feedback in the water. So instead of it being person on the boat feeding to the skier, the skier is actually feeding to the boat driver, yeah. So we're actually learning as I'm skiing or when I'm on the boat, and it helps, and we get that so we've got sure path because of James.
00:57:21.260 --> 00:58:42.340
So I was going to ask you about, yeah, all of us competition drivers love love that now we do. It's great we take the mick out of them, but we do love it, and it's great that we've got that on site so it can allow us to really, really hone in on our drivers when they're wanting to get to that stage to go, this is where you appear to be, not going wrong, but your opportunity to improve is your your stall off to the left a wee bit, or, yeah, you're not lining it correctly. Let's try and work on that. And and that's been a great bit of technology that we've had because it's really helped us. I can see if somebody's driving straight from an eye and and from the tower, or when I'm skiing, but it gives them the data. Instead of me just going, Oh, you're a little bit to the left. You've got those measurements. You've got that, yeah, breadcrumb path through the app so they can see, okay, so he's left foot forward, so on one ball, he's actually given me a little bit of a tug, and I'm not compensating that enough. So yeah, and we do, we do all that. So people can go from beginner and just learn to drive the boat to getting their qualifications to then learning how to competition drive and tournament drive. And then they can, they can obviously do that in front of some of the Federation, sort of officials, who will then sign them off to come and tournament drivers and whatnot. So they can do sort of international events and nationals and all those sort of things that
00:58:42.340 --> 00:59:21.739
being able to get that feedback. I've only had, like, a tiny bit of sure path feedback, because we couldn't get it to work right. We borrowed one. I'd like to really get it installed at our lake, but I what I do instead is I'm really open to having the ski or give me feedback, because, you know, you just can't improve if you're not getting feedback, like when we're skiing, we're getting feedback. Are we on the right spot? Are we not did we, you know, turn the buoy, or did we hit the buoy, or did we miss the buoy all together? You know, but when you're driving it's very hard to it's happening very fast. It has to be by feel, to a large degree, because you're really not watching the skier.
00:59:19.079 --> 00:59:28.460
You're watching where you're going. Those of you who can drive and coach, I give you super duper, yeah,
00:59:30.679 --> 00:59:42.278
it's a unique skill to have. And yeah, it doesn't always go right, but yeah, it's, I think probably April, May time. I'm still a bit like, okay, get back in the swing come June. It's just comes like a second, second
00:59:42.820 --> 01:00:00.960
nature, yeah, yeah. Oh, and by the way, you just hit on something else for every single water skier, I think, I mean, I I'm going to say every single one. But even pros, I heard both will Asher and April Coble both say this after a break, getting back on after you've been off.
00:59:57.039 --> 01:00:03.900
April. A couple of kids will takes a couple of months off.
01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:09.659
You kind of go, wow, this is really fast. I hope I can remember how to do it, even at the highest levels. That's
01:00:09.659 --> 01:00:16.199
why I don't. I know how my brain works. That's why I don't stop because I try to.
01:00:12.179 --> 01:01:14.278
I've done so many different things, on, off, seasons, trying to find that sort of unique way of doing it, to keep me improving that sort of Holy Grail, and I've tried dropping speed down maybe like one and a half clicks, just to kind of take the edge off because the water's going to be quicker, or trying to maybe extend the rope length, just kind of do easy passes. And it never worked. The one that's always worked for me is stay normal and just keep running the same passes that you would normally do. And just keep doing, like, it's like, even though it's cold, we're only going to take six passes instead of eight. Yeah, just do the same, same thing and and doesn't always go right. And you're, you're falling on passage you shouldn't fall on but it's cold, the water's quicker, the skis reacting differently. But there isn't that anxiety of going, I've not skied in a few, like five, six weeks. Oh, this is going to be awful. But then again, on the flip side, going in with no expectations is, is sometimes half, half the battle.
01:01:10.739 --> 01:01:34.878
You've, you've, you've actually achieved half the bit. Because when you go in effect, you there's a saying you've got to remove the expectations. And normally, when you do that, it normally goes a bit better, because expectations killed, like they completely kill. Kill the dreams they kill, they kill the reality everything, because you're you're too busy thinking about them and actually trying to do the task in that. So there is a element, I guess, for
01:01:34.878 --> 01:01:43.358
everybody listening. Just hit rewind and listen to that three times. Yeah, no Truer words were ever spoken.
01:01:44.739 --> 01:01:46.179
Yeah, I need to probably do that as well.
01:01:46.179 --> 01:01:50.619
Actually, just rewind myself and say it back to myself, because I'm probably one of the worst for it. So, yeah,
01:01:50.860 --> 01:02:37.460
well, we all so we all have that because I think that's part of living in a modern world like we live in. I call it agenda brain and what I've learned, because I, you know, on the horse side of my life, I've, we've, I work with a rescue that has been taking on ferals and Mustangs. So feral horse is a horse owned by somebody. It's not out in the wilderness, but it's not really been touched, and they're super scaredy cats, very, very frightening. It can be dangerous just because they're going to run so quickly away from you. And Mustangs as well, which who were wild. And in both cases, they're more sensitive, so what they sense is our expectations or our agenda.
01:02:37.519 --> 01:03:07.679
And I've experimented with this multiple times where all I did was in my brain, no body language shift very consciously, just shifting to I'm now going to put this halter on you, and for a horse that has it had that done before, they will 100% of time back away or run away, and so They feel that energy of expectations. So the trick is how to be move and like, do something without expectations.
01:03:08.519 --> 01:03:47.980
Horses are, as I said before, my partner's got a horse and loves her piece, and the way that they they can just if she's had a bad day or she's gone in with a bit of anxiety, that the way that the horse can just read that straight away is on. It's unbelievable. I mean, I know animals are quite intuitive. Dogs are probably very similar, but snaps or horses is mad, how you can tell, but the way that they can calm each other, the way that they can talk to each other, for us to communicate, and for such a I think it's just horses are just one of the weird phenomena of the world where there's such great big beasts, but they're so vulnerable at the same time.
01:03:48.099 --> 01:04:20.099
It's, it's scary how, like, you can have those two poor opposites and one sort of one animal. And I think you're right. It's having that sort of confidence to not, be kind of a bit like standoffish with them, because they'll read that, but going in there, just have a sort of a humility, but a confidence and humility of going and because even just feeding them, if you kind of tap them, they will nip you, because they will not know what you're doing. You go, go there with a good firm hand, and you give them a clap, you give them an apple or something. They're going to love you for the rest of their life.
01:04:20.099 --> 01:04:42.699
And they knit. Their eyes light up, but yeah, they're, they're phenomenal beasts. I've certainly learned a lot from that. I still think, I still, I still think horse riding is a lot, a lot harder and a lot scareder than skiing, to be fair, because I know if that boat's if that boat's not starting properly, or it's misfiring, I can fully understand that. You don't know that that horse is going to misfire when you're 16 to 18 hands up, or whatever it is.
01:04:44.380 --> 01:05:13.079
It's another brain. It's not Yeah, and that's not good, yeah, yeah, no, it's very different. Austin, I've had this conversation because his wife has a couple of horses. He's like, Yeah, no, that's got another brain. I'd rather work with a boat, you know, that I can predict, but you hit something that I think is essential. Social around what horses do. And I think it ties right back to our water skiing as well. And it is, what do we do with our fear? Or you didn't use the word fear, but what like this happened with my daughter.
01:05:13.139 --> 01:05:28.579
She came out to me with one of my early riding lessons. This is probably four or five years ago, and the horses were starting to scare her, and she was shutting down. And her way of shutting down was to get on her phone.
01:05:23.420 --> 01:06:30.079
And then the woman, you know, she was parked kind of by the horse's head, because she was very afraid of horses butts. And the woman said, you know, why aren't you grooming and why are you on your phone? And she got a little annoyed, and Jennifer got very upset, and left the barn, and Jennifer's, you know, at that time, she was in her late 30s, so this is a grown ass woman getting upset. So then the question was, well, what's going on? So she did come back in, and we had this interesting conversation where she finally was able to tell the instructor, I'm afraid. And she said, that's fine. And she goes, but I thought I was supposed to not be afraid. I'm trying to, like, not let the horse see my fear. And the instructor said, Oh no no no, honey, you try to cover up your fear. That scares them worse than anything, because they they need you to be in alignment with yourself. So she said, Go walk out. She said, own it, and let them know you're afraid. And walk right over there. And there were three barn, three horses in that barn.
01:06:27.199 --> 01:06:42.880
We were had them, you know, we had them, not cross tied, but on a single tie so they could swing their butts around, which was one of the things that was making her very nervous. And all of the horses let down. Every one of them got relaxed. The whole barn changed. As soon as
01:06:43.659 --> 01:06:47.259
Jen owned her feet, she just aligned herself. Knows it, yeah.
01:06:47.500 --> 01:07:22.219
And what I recognized is, I've talked about this a lot of the the nervous, the calm, nervous, excited study that they did, they did ambush karaoke, and I they as some scientists, I don't know who it was. I heard about it on PBS. I actually, as I was driving down to ski with travers, when one winter and they were saying that, when they told the people that were skiing, sorry, singing, and think about ambush karaoke. I mean, most people don't sing that well, and all of a sudden, you know, that's pressure. And again, it's not, it's not the karaoke, it's the pressure created by the karaoke, right?
01:07:22.280 --> 01:07:45.880
Yep. So they put the people in three buckets, and one bucket was instructed to be calm and do whatever you can to be calm. One bucket was instructed to you're feeling nerves. You're nervous, fine, be nervous. And the last group was you're feeling something. Call it excitement, yeah, and then they measured them. And who do you think did the best?
01:07:46.659 --> 01:07:49.179
I can follow the laughter of the three, I would imagine,
01:07:50.260 --> 01:08:12.119
like it like there was the measurements were something like they had, they had a a tuner thing that could tell when people were in tune, and they had other measurements. But that was the kind of, probably the most quantitative and the excited group was like 80 something percent good. The nervous group was something like, I want to say it was like high 60 something percent good.
01:08:08.460 --> 01:08:59.680
And the calm was less than 50% good. Wow. And I had just been at a tournament that fall where it's the first time I didn't ski to my practice. Average, I don't even ski tournaments anymore, because I don't get the same jolt everybody else does if I tend to ski my exact way I ski in practice, and I don't like spending the whole day out there too. There is that fair? But I know, I know. I know other people I had, I had truly, well and truly choked in this tournament, and when I reflected back on it, I realized that my thoughts were this as I stood on that dock. I'm a coach. I should not be feeling this. I should be calm. Calm yourself down. Lynn, you can do this. And that's when I skied horribly.
01:09:00.340 --> 01:09:01.680
Yeah, yeah. And so
01:09:03.000 --> 01:09:10.560
this Yes, as a coach, you probably have you probably that's why you knew the excited.
01:09:06.239 --> 01:09:26.479
So how, what's your coaching for people when they need to get themselves in alignment? And this is back to those expectations, because expectations can create fear, but they also sort of create our aspiration. Yeah? So how do we balance those two things with
01:09:26.479 --> 01:09:53.199
great difficulty, I think. But I think there is, there's tools you can use for for me, for the guys that I compete, there's, there's, there's one thing always comes to mind is that I try and tell myself, is that when you're sitting on that dock, you're standing that Doc and stuff of that is, and you're getting those nervous feelings. Nervous feelings and those butterflies in your stomach, or ever it's kind of manifesting itself within you is that it's a privilege to compete. It's a privilege to be able to do that.
01:09:53.439 --> 01:10:06.060
There's a lot of people in this world who will never, ever be able to experience that, who are skiers they might never be able to get over. Hump of where they're they're plateauing, or they may never have, they might not have the ability they join.
01:10:06.060 --> 01:10:43.600
There's so many people worse off of you in that, in that moment in time. So it's like it's a privilege to compete. It's a privilege to be able to do that, to be challenged. Like, it's privilege. Like, sorry, Challenge is a privilege, not privilege is a challenge. Sort of thing that that can resonates to some people. And so I think that's the first and foremost, is trying to have that mentality, is that you're the one that signed up for that. So, like, it's your time. You're not going to get it back. So try and make the most of it. I for, for me personally, it's having a routine. It's having some sort of, some sort of way that you know you're getting into that.
01:10:43.600 --> 01:10:46.180
Now, my routine is a bit different to a lot of people.
01:10:46.180 --> 01:11:36.680
Mine is last minute, as in, I will be getting waiting for the call like at European Championships just last year, at both the ski in Spain, the boat was coming back to pick up the first skier off the dock, which was me for that for that round, and I still wasn't on the dock, because I wait till last minute, and I literally just run down the steps, chuck my ski and jump in the water, because I don't have any time to think then. So it's Don't think, just do and because if I get inside my head, if I get too much time, I'll just psych myself out and I'll, I'll just, and I'll choke and I'll and I'll just muck it all up. Whereas if I don't give myself the time, and I'm rushing about I've got no time to think, I just go and do what my body is used to doing when I'm pulling out of the gates and I go through that entrance gate for my first pass, it just becomes natural, and it's just normal that doesn't work for everyone.
01:11:36.680 --> 01:13:11.399
So it's trying to it's telling people and the guys that I coach is that try different things out. There's no There's no rhyme or reason to it. It's whatever suits you. So if you got yourself organized, you stretch for an hour, you've psyched yourself up, you've listened to your air pods around. You're listening to psyching up music and stuff, and that works. And you ski and fine, use that if you're listening to music and it you're you're too hyped up, and then you go out way too much adrenaline. Then that doesn't work for you, just because it works for it works for the person right side doesn't mean it's going to work for you. So you have to tailor that. But the best bit of advice I've got for most people, my dogs bark in a minute. I can guarantee it's a bin men or love dogs. You might not love those two in a minute, but yeah. So effectively, what we try and do is, is, as is coming up to competition and tournament time, is that we try and get them to mimic what they're going to do. So if they are the person that likes to have that long preparation time, get to the site earlier. Prepare yourself like you're doing a competition. Get the boat driver to take you down to the competition top, get into the water there. Go through that sort of regime as close to the competition as it comes, because at the time the competition comes, it's just like a normal practice. It's never going to be like that, but you've prepared yourself as much as you possibly can of that routine, that feeling of getting yourself hyped up, like I try and make myself a bit anxious, especially when it's tournament time, when I'm getting changed in our facility, in our change rooms, I try and get a bit anxious. This is calm. You've gotta run this.
01:13:08.039 --> 01:13:16.500
You've gotta try and spike that sort of adrenaline spike inside me so I can cope with it better.
01:13:16.680 --> 01:13:50.560
And so I guess that's my biggest advice. There's, there's so many different ways to do it. Try different ways, try different preps, look at it, and then take bits from other people, and take bits at work, delete the stuff that doesn't but then as it comes to that tournament side, it comes to closer those time, try and replicate, try and live those things through. So when it does come to the time, you're still going to get nervous. No, it doesn't matter who you are, the Pro is still getting nervous, but it's given you that a little bit of peace of mind that you've done this before, you've ran this path, so it should be a little bit easier.
01:13:46.779 --> 01:13:55.779
So that's my it's not quantum physics. It's not some sort of like epiphany. It's just logic, really, I suppose.
01:13:57.039 --> 01:14:28.460
Well, there's several things you said that were super logical, and I want to call out the early one, because you when you say, Challenge is a privilege and be grateful that you're there, it puts you on the ground of what you have. And what I have found is when people, including me, focus on what we don't have, we get more of that. Yeah, 100% and when we focus on what we do have, we get more of that. Yeah.
01:14:29.420 --> 01:14:32.659
And so that is that. It's science, it's logic.
01:14:32.720 --> 01:14:56.199
Like I look at it, if I go back 10 years ago, I was on I was getting heart surgery, I might not have been being able to scale. I didn't think doctor said I wasn't going to be able to ski again. I had to give up skiing. Oh my gosh. And I'd only, I'd only started maybe three, three years I was just getting into so I started like you, not quite as like I'm 39 in a few weeks. So I was 24 some of that, some along those lines, but
01:14:56.199 --> 01:14:58.960
in to ski at the level you ski at that's pretty light.
01:14:58.960 --> 01:15:00.420
Usually people start. Yeah.
01:15:00.899 --> 01:15:37.039
Well, that said they get that balance point as a kid. They learn it's like they walk, they ski. And I didn't have any of that. So I guess I really started skiing again in 2018 I couldn't run a pass. I couldn't really get out the water in 2018 that well. So I, I got the all clearness. I'm going to give this a shot. And it was that. It was that mentality of going, I might not have been able to do this. So make the most of it. And okay, maybe went to a slight extreme where you give up your your career that you're doing, kind of retire to an extent quite early in Scotland, focus on this. I'm just going to do this. But that's kind of half the battle.
01:15:37.039 --> 01:16:36.619
So you're all in it makes it a little bit easier, if that makes sense. So you've got that mentality. I might not be able to do this, so make the most of it. Yeah, you still have days you you get annoyed, you get frustrated at it. That's that's sport at the end of the day, and that's life. But in the general feel is you've, you've always gotta keep that in the back of your mind. And then the other side of it is that if you're going to do something properly, do it properly, like commit 100% to if you're if you want to do it, serve as a hobby and stuff like, that's cool, but then don't expect, yeah, be able to do it, X, Y and Z. You've got to sacrifice a lot to be able to do stuff. And I think people forget that they want that. I'm not saying I'm the best in the planet of any strips imagination, but I work hard for it. And people, they want to get the end goal, and they just want to have that. But there's a lot that goes in between, starting from that scratch bit in 2018 to today. So yeah, and there's still a lot, a lot, trust me, the guys that I trained to start a lot more to improve on. So yeah, you don't, you don't complete it. You definitely don't complete
01:16:37.760 --> 01:16:54.220
it. It's the the distinction between becoming the best. And, you know, people have heard about this in the opening when I describe your bio at the intro, but you were the Scottish National Champion for three years in a row, from what I see.
01:16:55.000 --> 01:17:05.819
Yeah. So you you understand what it is to be on the tip of that sphere and what it takes to be on top. Because it's one thing to be really good, and it's another thing to be on top.
01:17:07.140 --> 01:17:12.779
There's only one way to go when you're there, that's the that's the thing and that. And yeah, you mean
01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:15.359
down, right, yeah.
01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:16.020
Well, there is, yeah, once you're there,
01:17:16.439 --> 01:18:14.399
you stay there. And I kind of said to myself, I was like, when I when I won it the first year, I was like, that was my achieve. I always want to do that. Since I was a bit like, when you were saying, when you start skiing, you you don't know a lot of the guys, but then you go to your first one, you watch these guys ski, and then you watch these guys get crowned your national champion. You're like, yeah, okay, wow. These guys are phenomenal. So then I was when I started competing, I started getting decent scores. I was like, that's what I would say. I want to try that. And I remember saying to my coach at the time, Simon, who's he's a South African guy that came over to us and coached us for a season, and I said to him, and when, in 2020 I think, had been skiing for like, a year and a half, I said, really want to, like, get to the European Championship. So that's what I want to do. And he goes, that's tall order, but you could do it if you stick at it. So I was like, Okay, let's try it. And I kind of did that in the background. Didn't really tell a lot of people that that's what I want to do. So in 2020, 21 I start really going for it. And then then I won that. And I was like, okay, that's amazing. I kind of, I achieved my goals.
01:18:10.680 --> 01:19:01.680
Like, what do I do now? Like, well, I've done what I kind of want to do. And and I was like, Okay, let's, let's, let's go for the my, my first ever rankings event I entered was British nationals, which is probably, in hindsight, probably the stupidest thing you could also do. It's normal people kind of go through those levels, you know, they they do the grassroots, they maybe do a local competition, and then they kind of build up. Whereas me, being the strange person I am decided, oh, let's just go for a national championship. And I ended up coming third in that which I'd never imagined in a month or Sundays that was going to happen. And then with that, got called up, we got to the British squad for the over 30 fives. And after that, it kind of just spiraled from there, and it was but then you start the next season going, I'm going to have to try and do this again.
01:19:01.979 --> 01:19:04.500
Like, can I do this again?
01:19:01.979 --> 01:21:05.100
There's that element of doubt, can I kind of repeat what I've done, kind of improving it, like, if I don't win it this year? Or is that going to be a failure of what people going to think you you start going through this like mad, sort of spiral in your brain and and it was, it was when I started seeing my sports surface, like, kind of going take a step back, stop, like, giving yourself such a hard time, chill out like you're, yeah, and basically that, that Mo, that sort of saying, like, is going, you are just like you're, you're defeating yourself. And it's sort of thinking that way of going right, okay, and that's taking a step back, grounding it and and just doing the best you can, like, doing the best that you can achieve, like, within the situation you can have, you're never going to PB every single competition. That's not going to happen, yeah, um, because not every competition is going to have flat ground water, straight drive or, like, no wet and so you can. Expect when it's like at the Oxford Pro Am, when Corey won, when we were competing, there it was Rolly, it was windy. It was even for us, well, okay, for the English guys. It probably was good for the Scottish guys. Now we were fine, like we were still in charge, but I'm going to get so much abuse for that. But yeah, like we're, we're everyone was kind of, the scores were down, and everyone admitted that. Um, but you have to, you have to then realize that you're doing the best you can with the the scenario you're dealt with, the the hand you're dealt and that's all you can do. Um, and once I realized that it started, it's never, always goes perfect, I certainly it made it a lot easier for me to kind of establish what I'm doing. Um, I kind of said, If I won three in a row, I'd probably not do it this year and kind of focus on other things. I'll see how I feel once the season comes. But one of my friends was like, Oh, you if you do 3p, you've gonna, you've gotta give somebody else a chance. And I was like, Oh, don't say that. And that was on the podcast as well. Oh, that's just gonna, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna have a massive target my back. So, yeah, I don't know.
01:21:05.100 --> 01:21:18.600
We'll see. We'll see what happens this year. There's, there's certainly a few, a few competitions we want to do, but we'll see how time goes, I guess. But yeah, back to your original that's kind of how I approached it. Yeah, it was a bit of, a bit of a whirlwind few years, that's for sure.
01:21:19.680 --> 01:21:44.859
Well, one of the things I heard as you were thinking about this upcoming year is not that you have that level of expectation that you've had in the past, speaking of expectations, but there's something about the process, too, of the driving towards the goal that is so magical. And it doesn't sound like you've lost any of that hunger. I
01:21:46.119 --> 01:22:13.920
not. I don't like I don't like cliches, but a lot of them make quite a lot of sense when you talk about it. But it is like the journey rather than the destinations. Apps. I do enjoy it. I do. We were talking about lifting heavy weights, longevity, all those sort of things before we came on. And I love it like, I love going to gym, like I have we built when we built our first house, like it was or we bought our first house. Sorry, we we put a gym in the garage that we pop our kids out. And I love it, because it's something I do every day, whether or not it's a run, whether it's lifting weights.
01:22:14.460 --> 01:22:49.659
And I enjoy that, enjoy pushing myself to that. And I enjoy going and training. I enjoy skiing. I enjoy doing those things, and that feeling when you win your first medal, or you win your first championship and stuff, that is a phenomenal feeling. And but then you can reflect, and you actually looking at of the journey you've had, and you actually appreciate all that stuff even more than that little smidgen event. Cos, let's be fair. Everyone forgets about that after that Sunday, when the The trophy is done, the podium is done, everyone's gone back on with their life. So when yeah
01:22:50.140 --> 01:22:57.880
experiences you, you're already like, well, so that was great. And now what next? Yeah.
01:22:52.899 --> 01:23:30.920
And like, yeah. And so the journey is, is that? But to me, that's the dancing the tight rope piece of it, because, you know, that's the title of the book I wrote. And lot of people ask me what dancing the tight rope means. And I said it means any two things you have to balance. Because, you know, you do have to balance the journey and the goal. If there's no goal, there's no reason for the journey. But if all you focus on is the goal, the journey becomes miserable. So that's a tight rope right there that you have to balance. And I know it sounds to me like you know, you are very aware of that balance and doing a pretty good job of it.
01:23:31.038 --> 01:23:33.378
I probably wasn't.
01:23:31.038 --> 01:25:28.338
I'll be honest with you, when I started doing it and when I started properly in 2022 I was rabbit in headlights. Had no clue what I was doing. And I wouldn't say it was a fluke of a season, because I trained hard for it, but I scored really well, like I did really good, and it was a really great season. 23 was a little bit more of the reality check, whereby it was like I focused too much. At the start of I won this. I did that there. I need to repeat this. I need to do this. There's so much pressure, and I learned the hard way, fortunately, with that in 23 like didn't, didn't, didn't score where I wanted to, didn't do as well as i i wanted to personally. And then had to kind of re evaluate that 24 certainly from a psychological point of view, and was certainly a major, major journey there and trying to understand that more and getting and I think towards the end of the season that I kind of came up not on top. I came out of a positive attitude and certainly a far better place buying I do it's, it's just making sure that you have balance within your life as well. I think I focused too much in 23 it was just ski. Didn't matter anything else and you and that's where I went wrong. There was no escapism from it. There was no sort of I was working it, I was competing it. I was loving it, and I love that. But you need to have stuff out with it, whether or not that is going just out for a walk. So. Things like that, but like going to see the horse with my partner, or going away in the long weekend or something away from the ski site, because literally, it was just non stop. And that's certainly something this year I'm going to make more of an effort to do is escape away from the sport. It's going to be more difficult because I work it and I competed. But that's definitely in the wall planner already is weekends where I'm not going to be skiing, or I'm not going to be at the ski site, I'm going to be doing things I've got nothing to do with it.
01:25:25.338 --> 01:25:33.679
And and that certainly has helped me, because it detaches and it doesn't put as much pressure on because that isn't you're not defined by the sport.
01:25:33.738 --> 01:25:50.319
You're defined by the person you are. And unfortunately, that year didn't go too well. I was trying to define myself at the sport, which isn't a healthy way to be at all. So, yeah, I think this year will be a bit different. I hope, no, it will be. It will be. I,
01:25:50.380 --> 01:26:05.640
you know, right as right as her career was sort of coming to a close, her competitive career. I skied with April COVID. I was at Coble ski school something like 20 times. I went so many times I am the most coached amateur on the planet. I think nothing wrong with that,
01:26:05.759 --> 01:26:06.479
nothing wrong
01:26:06.479 --> 01:26:44.738
with that. No, no, especially spoken by the ski coach. But she she said skiing is what we do. It's not who we are. And just another way to say what you just said. And I think that's what gives us the fuel to actually do the sport or whatever it is we're doing, whether we're the CEO of a company or riding horses or skiing or whatever other endeavor we have, is we have to get it from the inside out of who we are, and that's what fuels the endeavor. And when you get that backwards, I think that's when our egos get in trouble, and where we have a lot of problems unexplored. We can't put our finger on it, but that's where nothing seems to balance.
01:26:45.519 --> 01:26:45.939
Yeah,
01:26:46.060 --> 01:27:16.439
100% I think it's certainly the ego side of it is a big thing, and a lot of people fall, fall foul to that. I think, I think for me in that year where I think what I was, I was more worrying about keeping up appearances of that. This is what I did last year. I need to repeat that. And okay, fortunately, most of that did happen, but it's that this realizing that's not a be all and end all. And I read a book, Ryan Holiday's one eagle is the enemy, and that kind of helped me a
01:27:16.439 --> 01:27:19.798
lot. Oh, there we go. That was, yeah, Ryan Holiday, right?
01:27:19.798 --> 01:27:20.658
Ryan Holiday,
01:27:20.659 --> 01:28:03.899
yeah, great. It's a great but I read that. I actually wrongly. I read that as soon as I started feeling that way. And what I've recommended to a lot of the guys as well that I ski with, it's phenomenal, because as a skier, it's an individual sport, albeit there's team sport, all those sort of things when you're at the bigger championships, but it's an individual sport, and you the there was a tool that I got told, whereas you've got four perspectives, you've got your perspective, somebody close to you, somebody watching, and somebody doesn't know anything about you, and so you don't run your first pass, or you fall on an easy pass that you should Run your expert, your your feeling of that is, it's catastrophic.
01:28:03.899 --> 01:29:09.180
It's the worst thing in the world. The person next to you, the person that knows you, is is disappointed, as in because they, they're, they're disappointed for you, not in you before you or they feel, they feel like sad for you. They're empathetic, or feel sorry for you, wherever that is, yeah, the person watching, it's like, we've all been there. I've done that. It's not a great feeling like, and they're quite and the person that doesn't know anything about sport goes, alright, cool, next. And when you actually think about it that way, that you're kind of like going, nobody, really, nobody cares, because everyone's, in a nicer sense, everyone's too busy focused on what they're doing rather than what's going on with you. So, yeah, okay, that split second in their life, one second of however many seconds in a day, every a week, a year, all those sort of things, they've gone, oh, that's That's rubbish, unfortunate. Next gears off the top. They've forgotten all about it. They're watching that person ski. And that certainly helped me, because I did get when I remember that first time I fell on my pass. I should never have fallen. And I was properly like, you idiot, were you doing giving myself, like, the biggest sort of dressing down I could have.
01:29:06.239 --> 01:29:34.279
But then when I got taught that tool, I was like, wow, okay, yeah, it's not a big deal. We'll move on. Like it's happened, but I'm still living. I'm still doing this. I've got other stuff I need to go and do, and I've got two more rounds to to make up for it. So that was certainly the I didn't think, I don't think I have an ego based I think you've got to be confident. I think there's a difference. But I certainly think that was the sort of the dressing down of that ego side about going, there's no point.
01:29:34.279 --> 01:29:55.539
It doesn't help anyone to have that, and it limits you so so much. And there many examples of that book of famous people, like kings, queens. It's, it's phenomenal. You can kind of go, you're a very, very small aspect, and those grand things have happened in history of the world. So you're like, yeah, we'll just, we'll just move on.
01:29:52.180 --> 01:29:56.380
We'll get on to the next one. So yeah, but
01:29:56.380 --> 01:30:25.340
that's that, you know, what you you have hit on. That's such a great story. Uh, that thing that we do where we jump into other people's heads and then beat ourselves up, because surely, that's what they're going to do, you know? And kids do that with parents and Andre Agassi and his book open actually talked about the moment where he beat himself up so his dad didn't have to do it anymore. And it was very sad, because he didn't like tennis.
01:30:22.460 --> 01:30:53.800
Who knew that this great tennis player was living through his, you know, he was living his dad's dream, not his dream, and yet, look what he achieved. And, yeah, phenomenal. So there's, you know, under the topic of everything we've been talking about, is that thing about who we are versus what we do and and we look at people who have been great achievers, but what is their inner life like? What is their life like? You know, what is really happening for them?
01:30:53.800 --> 01:31:10.920
Because it's sort of when you're trying to get something, it's really common to have the thought, If only I could run that pass or win that tournament, or buy that business or what, you know, fill in the blank. If only I could do that thing. And then once you get there, you find out it, it ain't all it was cracked up to be.
01:31:11.640 --> 01:31:16.439
You don't want to be the person that puts your ladder up against wrong wall.
01:31:14.039 --> 01:31:16.439
That's the
01:31:16.439 --> 01:31:20.479
Say that again. Say that again. I want to hear that clearly so
01:31:20.479 --> 01:31:26.059
you don't so that's, See, I told you you're gonna need subtitles for this.
01:31:22.158 --> 01:31:28.458
You don't want to be the person who puts your ladder up against the wrong wall.
01:31:28.760 --> 01:31:34.399
Put your ladder up against the wrong wall. I don't need subtitles for that, but, yes, but, but that's exactly right.
01:31:34.699 --> 01:31:35.720
And we do that. Well,
01:31:36.199 --> 01:33:17.220
I've done that. I did that, and in my career, I followed what I thought I should be doing, and I did pretty good at it, but then became unstuck and just started to become miserable and realized that the last six months to a year has probably been the biggest thing where I've realized that the whole sort of life, and that's not disrespectful to anybody who lives the stereotypical life of working In nine to five, they get married at certain age, they have kids, and they get a mortgage, they do all those things that that's fine. That's their choice, their life of not preaching or trying to sort of say that they're wrong. But I realized that wasn't for me, that that wasn't my life. I it wasn't a case of, I wanted to work a nine till five and live in suburbia and drive a car and do all those sort of things that just wasn't mean. But it took me a number of years to realize that, because I thought that the way I was feeling was just normal, that's just how you feel. That's life, until I kind of had something happen in my life whereby, I think a choice in the matter got made redundant, and then it was kind of like, okay, I don't know, actually know what to do here, and then you have to properly step back and look at what you want to achieve and like, what makes you happy, what? And it was a blessing in disguise. And I can gain another cliche as they they always say that something that bad that happens to you feels bad at time, but sometimes it's actually the best thing that could have happened to you and and that was the case, because that then made me realize, okay, I don't want to be financed up to my eyeballs with mortgages or car fine. I don't want to be working a nine to five behind the desk. I'm not really the marriage material. My partner and I are really happy.
01:33:14.460 --> 01:33:23.000
We're just not that way inclined right now. We're not really wanting kids or dogs and our pets, our horses, our our family, our children, people.
01:33:23.119 --> 01:33:34.039
Some people think that's mad, but that's just the way it is and but because we've made those choices, we lose a lot of people. You lose a lot of people from your circle because you're not going down that same route.
01:33:32.239 --> 01:34:51.100
And it's, yeah, it's heartbreaking. Some things because you you lose a lot of people that you were really good friends with because they've gone down a different route to you. But then the good thing is, you more people that are of a similar mentality, then kind of come back into your circle, and you grow a different sort of family and a different sort of circle of friends, because you're moving in that same direction. But yeah, I definitely put my ladder up against the wrong wall, and I climbed it to the more or less the top, and couldn't see anything I liked. So now I've kind of done this, and it's not everyone's cup of tea. It's a lot of people said I was mad for doing what I was doing. I didn't get a lot of support from it. A lot of people kind of just thought I was having a midlife crisis, and maybe I am, but I'm happy. So spine of that's a crisis. That's cool, but, but, yeah, that's certainly something that I learned the hard way. But I would always say to people and guys that I'm the kids that I'm coaching, or the teenagers not knowing what they want to do is, is, I've always said to them, just, you don't have to go to university. That's not just because that's the next step that everyone thinks you have to do. You don't need to do that. I mean, it might be the right one for you, but you don't need to, or you don't need to get a job at big banks or that, or the big law firms, you can do something different. I mean, again might be the right one for you, but don't just pigeonhole yourself, because
01:34:53.020 --> 01:34:56.739
I did that time again. I call that shooting on yourself.
01:34:57.220 --> 01:35:42.039
Yeah. It, right? And, yeah, but, you know, that's, that's a tough one, because, you know, I've been caught in that. I mean, I've, I've done life both ways, and it caused me some serious health issues to try to be in that shitting environment where, you know, I ended up in the hospital emergency room with a pretty significant, we thought, heart issue. And what woke me up was the cardiologist, who said he hadn't been there hardly at all that week in Charlotte, North Carolina, he goes, I haven't been here that much, but you're the fifth person from your bank that I have seen this week with potential heart problems.
01:35:43.359 --> 01:35:46.119
And there's a common denominator there isn't there.
01:35:46.118 --> 01:35:53.378
What kind of Treadmill Am I on? You know? And it wasn't that unusual to have ambulances.
01:35:49.538 --> 01:36:07.618
Of course, it's a big bank, but ambulances take people away, you know, pretty regularly. And so I had this little bit of a wake up call. And it was right about the time I did the book The artist way. And you notice I didn't say I read the book The artist way?
01:36:04.679 --> 01:36:37.279
I said I did the book The artist way, because it's full of wonderful exercises. I recommend it. It's probably my most recommended book. And that particular year i is the year I left the bank. We bought our house in Lake Lure, our initial house, which I'm actually sitting in right now doing this podcast. And then I started working for an entrepreneurial company, and that was the beginning of of my freedom was after I was in the hospital with a wake up call. Something bad
01:36:37.279 --> 01:36:39.500
happens. It's the best thing in the nicest sense.
01:36:39.500 --> 01:37:06.420
Obviously, you're healthy now, so that's good, but, yeah, best thing that could have happened to you. And, and it's certainly that, that that's, it screams it like it really, it really does, because it's, it's easy, it's easy to just get caught up and all that sort of stuff in the mundane and, and before you know it, it's past it's passed you by, but, but, yeah, I definitely feel that. And that's it was, it's been difficult and it's but still, so far, so far, so good.
01:37:02.699 --> 01:37:13.979
So I'm pretty I'm pretty chuffed by moving my ladder and climbing up that one. So I'm starting to see a lot more, which is good.
01:37:10.739 --> 01:37:20.159
So, but, yeah, it's funny how some things like that can happen and it turns your life upside down, but for a good week. So yeah,
01:37:20.880 --> 01:37:54.819
well, I think that's pretty profound. And also recognizing that nothing ever lasts forever, and nothing stays the same, our sport, you know, is to sort of circle back to where we started. As we as we close is the sport is one of dynamic alignment. You're constantly rebalancing, and I think our lives are the same way, and it's sort of paying attention to what are the signals that we need to change the balance the balance point has moved. What's the signal for us to stay in balance with the balance point? I've
01:37:54.819 --> 01:38:05.399
I've found my my skiing has come on leaps and bounds when I've kind of been happy with less, if that makes sense like so I've transitioned.
01:38:00.779 --> 01:38:28.220
If you remember, I was saying that I just like skiing because it gave me that 50 minutes of freedom. I didn't have to think about X, Y and Z, that's going on in life, and it was my escapism. Now I don't need, I don't need to have that escapism because I don't have the same sort of pressures I did before, because I've made the decisions in my life to try and make my life better. I still get the escaping because I just my brain goes a million miles an hour.
01:38:28.220 --> 01:38:31.399
That's the sort of person I am.
01:38:28.220 --> 01:38:38.000
So it's that escapism there. But I certainly think being happy with less is a major thing in life that people overlook.
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