#5 David Benzel The Sports Family Coach talks influence, culture and becoming.

Lynn:   0:02
welcome to creative spirits unleashed where we talk about the dilemmas of balancing work and life. And now here's your host, Lynn Carnes. Hello and welcome to the creative spirits Unleash podcast. I'm Lynn Carnes, your host. And today I am so excited to introduce to you David Benzel. This is somebody I've known for a number of years, and I met him in the water ski world. But he is completely connected in the leadership world as well. And it's actually the crossover between sports performance and leadership that has been the source of so many interesting conversations that he and I have had over the years. The way we met was actually interesting, because 10 years ago, more than 10 years ago, is 2008. I was in Orlando and April coble Eller, who had been a coach that I worked with, and he's a really great skier. A lot. We were just on the phone, and I can't remember how I found out she was flying into Orlando, but I told her I would drive her out to ski with Cindy Benzel, also another very well known water skier and multi time national champion world record holder for her age group and so forth. And so as I got to go out and ski with the two of them, David came home and I met him, and we immediately connected on everything to do with leadership and performance and how much we had in common. So for the next, I guess it would be 12 years. I've been down there every winter, having dinner and talking about these kinds of conversations with him. So now that thanks to the world of podcasting, I got to record one of those kind of conversations that I get to share it with you. So here's what happens in this conversation. We go a lot of different places, but what's really interesting to me is his take on influence and culture and how to sort of as he defines leadership. Go from Point A to Point B, which I think of his change. So he has some amazing insights in this conversation about leadership and change and influence. The other thing that is really interesting is today his company, growing champions for life, is actually creating a movement for certified sports family coaches. Now what is that? It is how to be the parent of an elite athlete in a way that is wholesome and healthy. And I think anybody who's ever watched parents on the sideline, um, well, no, that some parents are. Well, I'm going to tell you I was one of them. Not that wholesome and healthy healthy on the sidelines when Jennifer was growing up, I was probably one of the parents that might have yelled at the ref too much and thought I knew more about her sport than her coach did. And David's got a really unique position to be able to teach people how to do this. Why? Because he raised two  elite athletes himself. His son Tyler played professional baseball. His daughter, Terra, is actually still one of the top wake boarders in the world. So now you have a family of four elite athletes. They might know a thing or two about this, so that's what he does today. But you will hear a little bit about where he started and how he ended up here in this conversation as well. I really do hope you enjoy it, and if you do, please share it with your friends. My goal is for these conversations to provide you sort of a unique insight and window into the world of having almost like a It's almost like having your own panel of coaches. And I hope you really enjoy this conversation. Thank you,  

Lynn:   3:46
David. Welcome to the podcast.

David:   3:47
Thank you. I've been excited to do this.

Lynn:   3:49
I can't believe we're doing it. So I was driving up to your house. and I think it the first time I ever came here was like, 11 years ago with April.  and just for the people listening, we're sitting out looking. This is my second time today actually to be sitting, looking at a ski lake not skiing, because who would want to in that wind its way. And we have a giant dog bringing us toys. So every now, then you for those of you listening, you might hear some loving in the background of the dog Dogs

David:   4:23
That's our sunny girl, English master, only £130 very, very loving family.

Lynn:   4:28
She's sweet, She's loving in my life right now. We're not filming. But if I sound all soft and gushy because I got a dog in my lap. So you know, when I when we decided to do this. I was thinking about all the great conversations we've had over the years. I came out here that day to ski with Cindy, and she she in April, I went out and then I met you, and it was like, Oh, we have a similar like background, not background. But we do similar things. We both to interests. Corporate leaders. Yeah. So this is a huge question that I'm gonna let you discern. But how did you get to doing that? Like, what made you choose that? Because I know you've done a lot of things in your life, so you end up there.

David:   5:17
So it's It's an interesting journey. I kind of think of life is having many chapters. And the first chapter I had professionally was introducing people to the university that I graduated from. I was on the admission staff, and I seem to have a knack for public speaking. And my assignment was to make uh demanding you. Yes, he just decided,

Lynn:   5:41
As long as I love on her she is  fine she won't bark

David:   5:44
This is pretty good, because we sonny, I've had educated each other about how to get along Sonny in your place in your place being a £130 massive just walked over to her couch. That's good crawled in it. Now that's a lesson in itself because, you know, we had to learn how each other's language. Yes, and I actually had a trainer come and teach me how to communicate with my dog and take my dog out to communicate with me.

Lynn:   6:14
We're going to pick up that threat. Yeah, but I don't want to hear first about, so we're giving.

David:   6:18
So the first time, my first professional assignment was to introduce families to Augsburg University and teach them about it. And I had a passion for the school that I graduated from. When I decided to leave there, it was to go water, ski a full time and and then to finance my water skiing full time, I had to coach So Cindy, my wife and I learned to be really good coaches. Yes, and in that coaching, I discovered so many things about the world of influence. How do you influence another person to help them grow to change their habits, to acquire new habits to gain skills, and the whole thing about you know growth and development is what coaching is about. When I got tired of coaching, I had on one occasion been asked to bring my little coaching talk to a company. A guy in ST Louis had come up and talk to my staff about the same way you talk to athletes. Yeah, and I thought, You know what? I maybe have something here that other people would enjoy outside of the world of sports. Sure. And so when I graduated from water skiing and coaching, I really started looking for companies that were interested in leadership. Because coaching and leadership have so much in common, they still about the world of influence, right? It's above the worlds of helping people go from Point A to point B, which is what coaching is and also what leadership is. If you really understand leadership as going somewhere right,

Lynn:   7:52
and that means change, going, going somewhere, really

David:   7:55
about changes. It's about being willing to give up some things. And I have other things, and discomfort that goes along with that. And so that's why I say this has been a series of chapters from just introducing somebody to a university experience that I had had and then introducing them to water skiing in approaching them through that and then realizing this is a common theme, you know, the other thing that I do a lot now is I work with parents and especially the parents of kids in youth sports. Well, guess what? Parenting is like leadership.

Lynn:   8:29
And don't we wish that we could control. At least I did. Yeah, right. My daughter, 37 now, But I I always wanted to be able to control. But the truth is the only way you really do anythings to your influence.

David:   8:40
Yes, yes. And in fact, I am paraphrasing William Glasser. In his book Choice Theory, he says The only really control we have, if any, his parents is to the quality of our relationship with them. Yeah, it's the relationship that allows us to have influence at all, and the more we try to actually control somebody the worst the relationship gets.

Lynn:   9:04
I don't do very well when people try to control me. So why would it work if you try to control them?

David:   9:08
Exactly. So in a nutshell, that's the journey. And now I'm spending most of my time doing either corporate leadership or parenting Working workshops. Yeah, yeah, and coaches. Still some with coaches.

Lynn:   9:21
He's created a culture in the culture of last anyone 23 or four players it lives on, no matter who comes into the program because of the way he teaches it,

David:   0:00
He's created a culture in the culture of last anyone 23 or four players it lives on, no matter who comes into the program because of the way he teaches it,

Lynn:   10:18
o so, like athletic coaches, helping them influence there as well. It's interesting because I was watching last night. Texas Tech was playing in Madison Square Garden, you know, they went to the Final Four last year. I think they were actually in the finals, but they didn't win. It found number mistaken, but they have a coach who really gets those guys to have good relationships with each other and to care about each other. So I don't watch basketball that much just happen to have a minute. Turned it on, was enthralled to watch. They had only three returning people, and they beat number one Louisville in Madison Square Garden last night. And I could see the same themes that I saw with the team last year, but different guys because he coached,  to care for each other He's created a culture in the culture of last anyone 23 or four players it lives on, no matter who comes into the program because of the way he teaches it,

Lynn:   10:18
right, right. And there's something about showing the way he creates a team about the way they show up for each other and my sense and again, I'm really, I mean, I'm probably kind of ignorant, really, to what's going on. But from my outside of you looking in, it looks like they really care for each other, as opposed to They're just doing their job and everybody's a call. Get, you know, has a role on the team. It's more than that.

David:   10:42
If you ever listen to the interviews of the winning team after any major championship, and I don't care what sport it is, you'll hear a common thread on the common thread Would be the players saying something like, We really came together this year or we really had chemistry this year or I love these guys, right or gals? There's always some mention about this unique synergy that they felt towards each other this year that maybe wasn't there in prior years and that they long for next year. They're all hoping we can duplicate this, and that's the tricky part is can you put that chemistry together again? My position is if you know how you got there, you can design around culture. You can create culture. If you don't know how it came about, then you're just hoping it shows up again,

Lynn:   11:38
right, because it's invisible, really kind of invisible,

David:   11:41
very invisible. It's intangible, but it's like electricity running through wires as you feel it. You can see the results of it now. You just have to be skilled enough to create it, because hoping and wishing for it is not very good strategy.

Lynn:   11:58
Yeah, there's a saying that says Help is not a strategy that's exactly right. But no question about that, because you do cross different domains. Where is it easier to get teaming in the corporate sort of leadership realm or an athletic realm? And if there's a difference, what's the difference?

David:   12:16
That's a really good question, because we have certainly seen in corporate groups healthy cultures where people really do care. One of the places I spent a lot of time working, one of my clients is the villages here in Florida, and within that company we have many, many employees who feel that kind of closeness Mon carrying, not they don't love each other. They love their customers and they love their business and all that. But I think there's something in sport that doesn't usually exist so much in business. And that is the atT least weekly drama of trying to win and going through the emotional ups and downs of winning and losing. And that creates such peaks and valleys that I think it maybe is a little easier to create that that synergy in a place where the feedback is so obvious after every competition, you know, did we perform well or didn't wait? And many times in the business world, the scoreboard isn't quite so obvious and not so dramatic. Sure, right,

Lynn:   13:28
And it doesn't

David:   13:29
have a flat line,

Lynn:   13:30
and it goes forever.

David:   13:32
Yes, and a very good, and it goes on forever. And never, never. You'll see in organizations that have sales teams where they have to hit a monthly goal. Now there, it's closer to being like sport. That makes because at the beginning, every month you're a zero. At the end of the month, you hit your target or you didn't right. And so there is this push and there is this energy generated. As a month goes on, Let's see if we can hit the target, hit the target. And so in sales teams. I think that's more like sport.

Lynn:   14:02
That's a really good point. So you said something that I'm really like to peel back on culture, which is it's intangible. But if you know how you got there, you could duplicate it. What do you think are the even, if you like what are , the levers of culture, like, what are the dollars you're turning on the levers you're pulling? And how many of them are

David:   14:26
that? That's one of the best ways I've ever heard. Somebody asked that question. Um, the philosophy the overarching philosophy under which you have come together is the biggest lever. And by that I mean, have you articulated why you exist in the first place? This is the purpose Question. Why do we exist? Not what are we busy doing? Right. But why do we do it right? So that question has to be answered. Another valuable question would be probably the next one is how will we behave, which is a core values one of our core values, whether our beliefs and do we agree upon them so fervently that we would not compromise on those core values, not for money for convenience, that for anything, then some other levers of things like, What's our vision for where we're headed? What do we see in our future, and do we agree upon that? What mission does each person? What is each person's mission, which is dependent on their role, like a football team? The offensive linemen, They have a mission that's different than the running back. You're right, the offensive lineman. Their mission is to make a hole,

Lynn:   15:40
and it's really not good if they all try to do each other's mission, right? Right says things that

David:   15:44
that that's exactly right. So we know your mission and do it well. So that the running back, whose mission is to run through the hole so he can do his mission, Um and then we get down into the nitty gritty. What are the what are the specific goals that we're trying to hit? One of the strategies for hitting them in the details, who does what and when? Yeah, so I have I built it like a little pyramid.

Lynn:   16:07
I can picture it. You just described it in such a beautiful way that I'm gonna be able to remember everything you said because it's so crystal clear. It's almost like the picture. It was a hologram between us. I

David:   16:17
think of it as a series of questions that have to be answered. All right, so purpose answers one question. Why do exist in every one of the things I just stated has a question behind it, right? And if everybody knows the answers to the questions, we just created a common culture

Lynn:   16:32
that's good. Now there's something. Okay, I had a little red flag on one of them, and this is because, you know, I work with corporate teams to do, and a lot of times were in some of these conversations. It's about that. How will we behave? Question. Oh, right, like, um, what I often see happen and it's usually subtle. It's usually not at all. I think of it is under the table instead of on top of the table. We all know it's happening. We all know it's under there, but we're not talking about it, and it's that what we say we're going to do, like the same way we say we're gonna behave and the way we actually behave. There's usually a difference in those two, and I think there's always some difference. You know, you're not exactly like I could make a declaration that, like, I've been intermittent fasting, I can say I'm gonna absolutely do intermittent fasting five days a week. But did I really didn't do it four days a week or did that kind of half ass it from it? You know, in other words, when I say and what I do might not line up. Same thing happens in tapes. So how have you seen people resolve that? And what happens to a culture if what is purported to be being done versus what's actually being done is different?

David:   17:44
Jack Welch, the former CEO of G. E, used to say that on your team, you have people that fall into four different categories. Okay, The first category of those people who believe in your philosophy means they also live it, and they're good performers. So what happens to them? Upward and onward? Yeah, second category, or people who believe in your philosophy live it. But they're not yet good performers. Okay? We coach them up,

Lynn:   18:08
right? Because we want them, they're gonna get

David:   18:10
it. They believe in the right stuff. Now, the third category is easy for people who don't buy into your philosophy and don't perform well. We uninvited them

Lynn:   18:19
way. We want them to go find something better to do with something

David:   18:22
that's a better fit. And we maybe even told them of apology for having them come into our orginaztion where they don't fit. We have.

Lynn:   18:29
I think that's why

David:   18:30
we hired him. But the fourth group are the tough ones. These are the people who kind of nod that they believe in the philosophy you can tell by their behavior that they do not. But they also really perform well. They are really good at what they do.

Lynn:   18:46
I had a boss like that. Oh, he had the best numbers of everybody.

David:   18:49
Every boss has workers like this. Yeah, you know, it could be your top sales person. It could be your best accountant, but they do it in one hit in a way that doesn't quite line up. So you ask people, what do you do with them? And when we're all Torn A little bit because we love peak performers.

Lynn:   19:07
We like those numbers from the sales, you know, And what we do with those guys, I think, don't say a lot about what our culture really is

David:   19:16
goes, because if we allow them to stay without a change in behavior, then what we really said is that these these it's like suggesting that Moses came down with the 10 suggestions. 10 Commandments. It means that those those core values that we have up on the wall and on your wallet card well, they're just guidelines. We are really serious about it, and nobody can afford to have that message go out because and everybody will drift away from the core value. So this is a long way of me getting to the answer, which is we have to hold people accountable for the behaviors. When my son was coaching baseball, I was really proud of his coaching high school baseball after he came out of his baseball experience and he actually told the boys on the team, You're going to make mistakes playing baseball. It is inherent in the game. You're gonna make an error, you're going to make mistakes. And he said, We don't like mistakes. We want to learn from them, but I won't ever yell at. You would be mad at you for a mistake, but don't mess with our culture as a team don't mess with don't violate the values that we have agreed upon as a team, because then I will be very upset with you.

Lynn:   20:30
That's a great way to describe a boundary.

David:   20:32
Yeah, matters. That's right. In other words, he's saying very clearly your behavior is something that really matters. Your performance matters, too, but your behavior matters as much to me as your performance. In fact, it's even more important in terms of the health of our organization. But in many teams, people put way too much emphasis on the performance part and not enough on the behavior part.

Lynn:   20:56
That's the point. I think I was getting to her way. That question What I've seen, what I've seen a lot happened, and I feel like that erodes trust with people. And to the extent even that, um, it not only erodes trust, but it it can make them start questioning their sanity. In a way, it's like, I think it almost put people in survival mode because they like what they're saying one thing and doing another and, um, I don't know. I know you and I talked since I started getting back on the horse. But the first thing my my riding instructor taught me was your body language has to match what you're doing. Like if you come up to a horse that you're about to ride and you're saying one thing and doing another, that horse is going to be in survival mode and you don't want to ride a horse that scare.

David:   21:46
You know, our bodies produce certain chemicals, and when we're in that survival mode, when we don't trust when we feel a little unsafe, like emotionally unsafe, our body produces More Cortisol are testosterone goes down or cortisol goes up and people then spend more energy protecting themselves. Right? So my energy is now used to protect myself against the proceeds threats in the workplace or on the team. I don't feel safe when we create a safe environment because people are in alignment, we can trust each other. That's when we see serotonin oxytocin produced by our bodies more than cortisol. Yeah, and now all our energy is directed outward toward whatever purpose we serve. Interesting. Yeah. So chemical ships that are going on our riel,

Lynn:   22:37
it's I absolutely believe that because having just skied having not skied for seven weeks. I've got I've got endorphins running through me that I hadn't had for seven weeks. I have had good and I'll tell you, riding horses has a way of doing the same thing. That's what I'm doing, I think. And I think probably rowing. In fact, you know, we were talking before we turned on the mikes about you're a rower. Yes, and color scholar. Your skin, that is It's a scholar. Wen is one person, right?

David:   23:06
Well, it can be can be two or even four. But sculling is when you haven't already. Chance,

Lynn:   23:11
right? Is opposed to the sweet sweep. Yes. Yeah. So you're a scholar cause you have to and I'm just learning this. I've been out twice and I was telling you, getting out on a windy day where I was, you know, scared to death because of the thing was bawling all over. But what's interesting is yes, I had a lot of adrenaline because I was in fight or flight for sure, like the he was blowing down protection mode for sure and protection mode. But interestingly enough, when I got myself back to the boathouse, which I could only do like I had other scholars out there coaching me, but that I was several 100 feet from home having to go against the wind. And I had to actually show up for myself or there really wasn't another solution, cause these boats are not, like, easily dragged by other boats like there was really no other way you're

David:   24:01
gonna get blown with

Lynn:   24:03
was there was just like nothing. There was really, like, only one option. That was good. I guess I could have swum the thing in, but I really didn't want to do that. But when I finished after I had the adrenaline hit, I had an endorphin kick, much like I have had riding horses or, um, skiing or something like that. And it felt like it felt good cause I didn't die. I survived, and I actually showed up for myself. And so I think that's another our serotonin. And what was the other one on top of those endorphins? Chemicals? E.

David:   24:37
I just referred to them as chemicals. I made their hormones, I don't know, but

Lynn:   24:41
I think there was more.

David:   24:42
But, you know, serotonin is the one that you feel. It's called the feel good driving away, meaning If you perform a random act of kindness, you will experience serotonin. The person who received your random act of kindness receives serotonin. And if 1/3 person observes this whole interaction, even they can experience serotonin.

Lynn:   25:08
So we can be drug dealers. Saratoga serotonin by simply being kind.

David:   25:14
Yes, exactly. And we we need it. We love it, right? You know what? Watching your kid walk across stage graduating from high school. You could feel it as he feels, because it's the same thing as I am proud of you. Or I can tell you are proud of me. Is serotonin Wow. And the silly example I use is if if you go through a toll booth on the highway like a, uh when you call toll way and if you pay the toll for the person behind you, you'll expand serotonin. They will experience serotonin and the guy in the toll booth who watch this. He will experience that I do it differently. I go through the toll booth and say, the guy behind his pain and financially

Lynn:   25:59
wait for you. Actually, last night I was coming through one of the tollbooths that doesn't have anybody there. Its exact change. And I feel like the guy from Michigan in front of me who's We was sitting there. When I go, I feel like he was searching for money and had nothing. And when I pulled up, I think he just decided to deal with the consequences of driving. I was actually just about to get out of my car and pay for him because I had extra quarters and I was gonna be happy to do it. A dollar 50. Come on. Um, there's a little bit of infection. Someone came out of my way, But But anyway, I could see that That's I love that we're gonna be drug dealers in serotonin.

David:   26:35
Yeah, there's there's a lot going on, You know that that marriage between body, mind and spirit is that working all the time. You know, we don't never get leave any part of that at home, whether you're on the team or in the workplace. Uh, those things are really And, uh, I should say they're influential. They have an impact.

Lynn:   26:55
Well, it's interesting that you put it that way because, like way we've gone across several different domains talking about water ski coaching about your speaking when you were working for the university now talking about leadership. And it's interesting because on the outside, if you picture in picture in kind of a rain are the skills. But on the inner part of how you behave with each other, how you set a goal, how you decide on your purpose, how you respond to pressure, how you responded, mistakes all those things I think those things carry from Domaine two domain almost seamlessly, don't you?

David:   27:29
Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, those are really That's the meaning of life skills. Yeah, we talked about life skills, is how you respond under pressure, how you respond to even coaching or conflict, how you respond of the things that cross all domains. So wherever people are communicating, wherever they are giving feedback to one another, whether wherever decisions are being made wherever those things were taking place, the opportunities for for life skills to show up or not show up are in every one of those. And that's why your EQ u your most of intelligence. Your emotional quotient is more important than your I. Q. I think I just did a workshop on this yesterday and we were covering this whole thing about the fact that your I Q for the most part, is set right at this point in our years of my life, are accusing Don't change very much, but R e Q can continue to get higher, better, more mature. We can improve our emotional maturity in where it's lacking is where we have the biggest problems in our life. It's where we lack peace, and joy is because we don't manage our emotions Well, if you think about the kinds of technological advances that human beings have accomplished, and you could look at the last 20 years or you could look at the last 100 years, right and then say, And how much progress have we made in how we handle our emotions? We're still back in the cave, man.

Lynn:   28:54
I think we've gone backwards as a society in general and and actually one of the biggest. I don't know if it's a problem to solve or a puzzle to work or whatever, but it is. How do you How do you help win the influence domain, like I'm sure you saw this when you were coaching water skiing. I'm sure you see it in your world. Now, How do you handle the person that just can't seem to change? And like in that quadrant you were talking about by the person that performs but doesn't buy in that person is is usually, um it's a different problem. But then you've got I've got the other. I see a lot of times, the other side, which is they, not their head. They seem to be going along, but they're not changing anything.

David:   29:41
So there is a a fair amount. They're off to see if I could remember the gentleman who came up with this, but he says change will never happen in anyone unless three things are true. All right. Okay. So you think about a person right now who says they won't change? I can't change. It's because one of these three things is not true. The 1st 1 is there must be a level of dissatisfaction with the current

Lynn:   30:07
situation. Yeah, this is the back heart changed.

David:   30:09
Thank you. Let the Becker chancellor he could remember his name. Eckhardt says dissatisfaction must be greater than zero. Yep. Your vision of what could be must be greater than zero. And knowing the first step, not all the steps but least the first step must be greater than zero. Yeah, I remember now that you and I talked about this before, so if any one of them is less than zero, no change.

Lynn:   30:35
Because it's the multiplication,

David:   30:36
right? In any number of times. 00 So when you think of that, it's not hard to understand why some people don't change. Yeah, because it's one of those three things that's missing.

Lynn:   30:46
Well, And you know what? This has actually happened to me many times because I have I have got I've been dissatisfied. I knew what I wanted to change. So I had the vision. I even knew what to do. But when it got too hard, my satisfaction would go back down to Oh, you know what this is okay, I can live with this because Vac this crap is better than that crab. It looks like both both are uncomfortable. And I just gotta choose, chose which kind of misery I was gonna have.

David:   31:17
Yeah. So when fear is higher than desire, then we won't change. So I think about the very first time that I went over the water ski jump.

Lynn:   31:27
Oh, my gosh, I've never done it, but I can't

David:   31:29
very first time I was gonna cut across the water on my skis and go over the water ski jump. I had a desire that was higher than my fear. Okay, people whose fear is greater than their desire will pass. They won't go with Industrial, say I

Lynn:   31:49
never went and then they'll say, I just don't want to do it. And then we'll pretend like it's not fear.

David:   31:53
Yeah, but it's here, so that's a really interesting point you make. So I I might say I'm dissatisfied. But when it really comes down to doing something, I suddenly go. Well, it's okay, Uh, several for what I have,

Lynn:   32:07
and that's been that's been true for me. I've had. It's almost like in every time that I've reached a major change. I quit before I had the change because I didn't want the discomfort. And then something would probably change that fear desire ratio and make me desire it more than I fear the other thing that might be the missing piece for me.

David:   32:28
You know, you talk about the discomfort because of the baseball background with my son. We liken it to stealing second base. When you're going to steal second base is because you want something better than what you have. Second base is better than first base, but taking it to second base, you must be willing to live with discomfort, of having neither first nor second for a period of time. You are between first and second, you don't have the security of first you have not yet accomplished. Second, you have to be willing to live with the discomfort, neither one in order to get the one you want.

Lynn:   33:01
That's a great you know, I used to work with, back in my day Bank of America guy I worked with think Steve Cantrell, who was a brilliant thinker around process change, he said. It was like monkeys moving from one tree to the other, he said. At one point, you have a hand on one branch and you have to both hands on a branch, and then you have to let go of one branch, and sometimes you're straddling, and sometimes to get to the other, you have to leave. But at 1.1 hand or the other has to come off to make the move. And it is a good thing. Yeah, and it's the same idea. So and I do feel, I mean, I think that has a physical sensation of being betwixt and between can feel like you're almost unmoored or unanchored. I think it can be terrifying.

David:   33:46
But when we look at human being's basic needs, one of them is security. But not everybody's need for security is the same. So people who have greater needs for security are not as good at change, and they're not as good at living with that distance between first and second. I can imagine people who are way say, their risk takers. What it really means is they don't have such a high need for security. They're okay with that discomfort, Sure, and we don't really know why we're all so different there. I mean, that's back to nature versus nurture. But you can't just tell somebody. I'll take the risk and have them go. Okay, If they're if they're really security seekers, that they love certainty more than uncertainty. Yeah, no model logic will cause them to let go that branch

Lynn:   34:36
I can I can see that because it's it's I think it's a basic wiring issue, whether it was wired as  to experience or just your hard wiring from your survival mode. But, yeah, my husband and I joke about this a lot because he's more of a risk taker. I've always been more safety conscious or security. I definitely more security conscious. And we've been out everything from rock climbing to Boulder hopping, To starting water skiing, actually, everything I've done just about with him, he's had to realize my learning curve is like baby steps and his is super steep and and then it comes up and down like I've seen people who could, like he has a lot of big crashes or he's more likely to get hurt. I'm gonna take myself gently, you know, because otherwise I'll never do it. It's just too much for my nervous system to handle. It took him a while to realize we're both adrenaline junkies. I just don't need very much to get a big head right. You can say boo. It may go ahead and get ahead of her dirt. Alan, he has to go like jump off of a building with the parachute, you know? So that's actually a really good insight for me because I hadn't thought of it that way. But that is a need

David:   35:45
that that's, um, similar to control. Some people have larger need for control, and other people are okay with just a little bit of control. Some people have a huge need for freedom of people have smaller needs for freedom. Yeah, so in a marriage, the right combinations have to get together.

Lynn:   36:05
Yeah, or you're gonna have a lot of company and actually like, I think it's a lack of understanding because I do think we tend to look at each other through the lens and what we want, your how we are and how we are. And yeah,

David:   36:17
I'm a normal If I could be with yours. Normal is you could we figured what else is some weird version of what we what normal is and we're normal.

Lynn:   36:26
They've got to be just like us. Now that's that's really interesting. So what are you right now? Finding fun and challenging in your work, like whether it's with parents or with, you know, the working with your different clients in the leadership role. I'm super fascinated by the growing champions for life, which is working with the parents of elite athletes, cause I do want to say it'll be you know, we are you mentioned in the introduction, but you and your wife, Cindy, or both elite athletes and you raised two elite athletes. So you understand the parenting side of it. And I think there's a lot of parents who are aspiring to raise an elite athlete, and they look outside themselves for the answers  A lot

David:   37:10
of the Children might not be aspiring to be a great an athlete their parents are swaggering for them to be

Lynn:   37:17
hollow ex tennis mom who hired a coach to coach my daughter. And this was my instructions as I as I left the tennis court, get her to where she could beat me because I wanted a good hitting partner. And then and then she started getting really good. And then and then the mom pressure started coming on and I was like, Do you think she could be great? Should I be sending her off to, like, voluntary and all that kind of stuff? And fortunately for her and for me, we didn't go to any kind of  like that, but I I definitely think I was that kind of this mom. Yeah, that was in the days when I didn't know what the hell I was doing. For sure.

David:   37:52
I enjoy both The audience is I work with, but I will tell you that being a parent is more personal than being an employee or part of a corporate team. In my when I say it's personal, there's something deep within us about the fumes we have toward our Children. That's different than the committee we have toward our company.

Lynn:   38:12
Gosh, I hope so. That's good.

David:   38:13
So that means that when I'm doing a workshop, I can see in the eyes of my audience with parents on type of parents out, I can see in their eyes when they're feeling convicted. I can see in their eyes when they're having an ah ha. I can see in their eyes when there's a breakthrough, or whether there's a lot of guilt. And those are more meaningful moments for me as a presenter, because I know I'm having an impact that I'm teaching a strategy that's going to help them or I make I'm creating an awareness that they maybe didn't have before. And I see greater ranges of those kinds of things in people's eyes when I'm working with parents, and I think it's because of how how dear their Children are to them. There is no I don't meet many parents who who don't deeply love their Children. They want the absolute best, and they're trying their good intentions. They're trying to do the right thing, but they're flying without an order's manual. They're using trial and error, which is the most dangerous process when you're dealing with your most precious possession.

Lynn:   39:16
So trialling there like none of us have any experience, right? Right? Yeah.

David:   39:21
So I have often said after been doing this not for 10 years and read so much and studied so much. I wish I had met me sooner.

Lynn:   39:30
Honey, did you say that? Because I

David:   39:33
wouldn't help myself A lot.

Lynn:   39:34
So true. Like what? Somebody once asked me what my coaching philosophy was, and I said, I am trying to be the coach I wish I had had because I needed what I'm giving myself, you know, right now that I'm helping my clients, so I get a

David:   39:49
doctor, a priest and a psychiatrist get together for a weekend to discuss why they have chosen their locations. And they spend the whole weekend in a retreat, talking about why they chosen vocation and what the final answer. Waas. They all agreed on one answer. We do it to heal ourselves.

Lynn:   40:08
Yeah, there's there's a philosophy that I've heard and I can't remember the name of it. But it's based on healing yourself, like that's the whole point of everything that you do is like you heal others through healing yourself and actually think back to what you said about the kindness. Exercise where we give each other serotonin like, if you can. If you can find some kernel of kindness within yourself and and generate enough of that to give it to somebody else, you'll give it back to yourself and heal yourself at the same time. But it's being the one to start. Yeah, you know, first I heard somebody has to go first. Exactly. I can't remember where I heard somebody say that, but it's like I do try to do that like smile first go first, do that. So what's the biggest challenge for you, Um, in reaching because it is so personal with parents. Um and obviously don't go give away any secrets of any of her clients or anything like that. What is what is what is it? How did you had it With it being so personal? How do you have a parent really, really understand and change something with their kids and then tell me about a success

David:   41:15
story? Yeah. I think that there is a real common denominator with the parents who show up at a workshop, for instance, or tune into my webinars watch my videos. And that is there is a combination of humility and curiosity about there must be a better way than what I'm doing. And so the people who lack that humility, I don't think they need any help.

Lynn:   41:43
And they're probably not even coming to us. So

David:   41:45
they don't show up at the workshop. And the host, the sponsor of the workshop, which is usually sport organizations that have brought me in, they will afterwards say, Oh, so much wish so and so had come. We didn't get some of our toughest parents to show up, and they lament right now over the fact that those people income and then I remind them I said, Dad is a That's a small number compared to the people we helped here Tonight's turned because think of a typical bell curve in a bell curve at one end of a small group of people who don't realize they need help in our little either too stubborn or too proud look. For then the large part of the bell curve is the majority of people who have varying degrees of humility and curiosity about learning something. And then on the other, the bell curve. We have a small number again of people who actually are doing it really well. Yeah, they don't need the help. They're doing just fine. Yeah, And so if we don't get either end and we get the lion's share in the middle, we're still helping a whole bunch of folks and the others. They can't wait until they're ready to learn. You can't make somebody learn anything.

Lynn:   42:53
No, you can't. And isn't it interesting how we focus on what we didn't get done? As opposed to what? We don't know. What is it about us?

David:   43:03
Yeah, We I feel good about who showed up?

Lynn:   43:07
Yeah, that's a That's a great way. Todo Do you have any again without giving away any names of breaking any confidentiality? You have any fun success stories of parents that have oh, make big changes with the

David:   43:18
Oh, yes, I I even know of, uh, an Olympian. Really? Yeah. Uh, who has confessed me multiple times that in some way I may have helped save their marriage and change their family life because they both came to a workshop. And the dad was Maur on Sort of the outside of the family sport activities didn't see them as something he need to be involved in. But she got him to come to the workshop, and it completely changed his attitude toward what his role waas in their daughter's sport.

Lynn:   43:54
Wow. And the daughter was the Olympia

David:   43:56
there, too? No, no. Mom was a

Lynn:   43:58
little mom was feeling.

David:   43:59
Yeah, interesting. The mom was the Olympian. And even though she was such an elite level bronze medalists and Olympics, she said to me, You know, I'm scared to death. I'm screwing up this parenting thing. And so she came to the workshop, and as I said, her husband came and there was a change that was a turnaround. And even to this day, she'll still think

Lynn:   44:22
that's amazing. Don't you love that? That's it. Because that was what

David:   44:26
that was like, 10 11 years ago. That was my first workshops. I didn't even know I was doing

Lynn:   44:33
the Oh, you obviously do, because I remember. Um, actually, I was I was happening over there. It's December that we're recording this and that's the time of year. I'm often here. We've had dinner for the last 10 years when I'm here and one year we went over to the Christmas, something or other in the town over in the neighboring town where the Thai restaurant was again. Yes, and I remember we were waiting for our table. So we're wandering around and were in this building and all these people around and a guy came up. He just been one of your workshops. And when he saw you, he was He came up and was gushing over what you had done for him in that workshop. And I was I was just sitting there looking at it, going. This is so cool and, you know, so rewarding. It had to be for you because he recognized you and you could see it was a little bit. I'm trying to think of an analogy. It's almost like somebody seeing like like in his mind, he just saw super famous person, which I know you are kind of famous. But, you know, once we get to know somebody on a personal level, you kind of forget that, you know? But it was like that.

David:   45:37
That's fun. To get that kind of feedback, I assure you that it

Lynn:   45:40
was really, really cool to watch that. And I was I don't know why I was remembering that, because I guess because it's December and the Christmas decorations are up, and that was just a strong memory of mine. But you have to love what you do for your clients. Yeah,

David:   45:54
sure. I mean, that's any time we can teach something that others find valuable right then then that we've given them a gift. That and that's, you know, I keep reading books and listening to other people because I need to keep growing and learning. Yeah, I've got more to give. You can't give away what you don't first possess,

Lynn:   46:16
right? You can't and well, this is one of the things I've observed over the last many years that we've been that we've known each other is how much you've continued to grow. And I'm curious what you're growing edge is right now, like what do you where? I call it the froth. It's like, Where are you in the part of that? Like you're somewhat competent, but you're still learning. It's not yours yet.

David:   46:39
It's running. My birthday is coming up. And we had a little gathering here on Sunday, and five different people gave me a book. Five different books,

Lynn:   46:51
five different, five different booth, same look would really be.

David:   46:56
That would be like 100. Frenchmen can't be wrong so they can send me a message. No five different people brought off the people who brought gifts. These five people all chose to buy the book, and I guess that's because they know that I enjoy learning and reading, and I have sort of a knack for remembering titles of books and authors in what pieces of it that information I've gotten from each one.

Lynn:   47:19
It's so true, it's your fingertips.

David:   47:22
Right now I'm reading a book called Quiet and The subtitle of the book is, um, the power of introverts In a world where people just won't stop talking.

Lynn:   47:34
Oh, I've heard of this, I think I heard the Who's the author? It's a woman, right?

David:   47:39
Um, yes, it is one Susan Susan someone I'm forgetting. The last time

Lynn:   47:44
I saw her Ted talk, I think.

David:   47:46
Did you Okay, so So that's a really interesting, uh, book. Um, and someone else just sent a book called Change Bubble hasn't changed. Able,

Lynn:   47:59
Yeah, changing,

David:   47:59
Yeah, change hyphen able like And that just arrived is part of this party that we had, and I haven't even started it yet.

Lynn:   48:08
I love that title, but I'm fascinated. Yes, because that's that's kind of the book I'm writing is about how do we create real change and we have balance under pressure and especially, how do we bring forth our best when the pressures of the highest? And I think that's hard today, and I go

David:   48:25
back in kind of re read sections of certain books that are favorites of mine. If I'm struggling in some kind of relationship related kind of thing, how I'm getting along with someone. There's a book called the DNA of relationships, which is a wonderful book. Marshall Goldsmith.

Lynn:   48:45
I love Marshall. Yeah,

David:   48:47
and another book that I like is what got you here won't get you there.

Lynn:   48:52
That's another sense

David:   48:53
of Goldsmith, right? So But, you know, in terms of what I'm wrestling with right now, one of the things I'm actually wrestling with is managing my lifestyle as I start to work a little less on purposely working a little less, been building more time into my life for some other activities, like more rowing like that. I'm also creating a program where I will spend more time teaching others how to go out and do what I've been doing. That's great. Yeah, it's actually we're calling it the Certified Sports Family Coach program. We're certainly certify its family certifying people to be a sports family coach. So rather than doing all the workshops myself, I'm gonna certify some other people, teach them what I have learned and how to deliver some workshops and allow them to go out under the growing Champions for Life Banner and really be an entrepreneur, creating their own income and impacting lives the way that we've tried to do for the last 10 years. So that calls for a shift in my direction of my purpose, Right? To teach others to do what I've been doing

Lynn:   50:05
teaching others like that's a whole different game.

David:   50:07
Yeah, a little bit more mentoring others.

Lynn:   50:10
So I've I've done a little tiny bit of that, and yet I kind of keep going back to being sort of a free, freelancing solo printer that I am often on. And I'm curious. How do you How do you know when you're willing, Like, ready to let somebody go and operate under your banner? Like, is it hard to get, like for me if I can find the standards and the checklists and all that? But there's like, this moment where it's, like, personal. Yeah, I guess

David:   50:42
I haven't had probably been willing up until recently to take that risk. I was so protective of the brand and the message, huh? And and then I realized that other people, if they have the values, if they have the passion and if they have the desire to go do this now, I have to accept the fact that they will have had different life experiences, right? They will have different have had different triumphs and trials. That makes them who they are. I can't afford to have them go out and be David pencils. That

Lynn:   51:17
was actually

David:   51:18
not good.

Lynn:   51:18
That's all right. And it's already tight,

David:   51:19
and it's already you've got that. So I had to let go and say I'm gonna be okay as long as they got the baseline, right, Right, so long as we're operating from the same fundamental manual here that their version of this is going to reach, the people need to reach and the message is gonna be what needs to be sent way. Just have to make sure we have the same foundation.

Lynn:   51:43
That's a great mindset shift. Yeah, I'm gonna actually borrow that for me when it's time for me to start sharing that stuff, because there really is if there's a beautiful thing about being able to share what you work so hard to do. But let other people put their life experiences on it, like you said their triumphs and

David:   52:00
tell their stories

Lynn:   52:01
and tell their stories. That's really because I guess their stories really are the only thing that make the workshop work. They can't tell your stories. That's

David:   52:08
right. I don't know. They shouldn't tell my story.

Lynn:   52:10
It's not. There

David:   52:11
wouldn't be authentic. It wouldn't have the same ring to it.

Lynn:   52:16
Yeah, it's interesting, because in a way, we've kind of come full circle back to that question of culture, because what you're doing is creating you know why and the vision and that mission. And so you've got your purpose and then set goals and values that you don't mess with my value, right? So we came back to sort of that full circle. So So tell me this I want this will go out to lots of different audiences, and people are gonna want to know how to find you. Actually, before we get to that, I always like to ask. I think that one of the best ways of creating influence is tau actually make requests instead of demands. And I have found that making requests of people to consider something or do something often is a really powerful way to get them, maybe to move one step towards what they're trying to do. So, if you had any requests of this audience and this is gonna be everything from Barsky years to business people toe horse people. There's gonna be lots of people listening to this. But what would your request be for people who you know, they're probably listening cause they're interested in balance or performing under pressure or being the best self. What would you

David:   53:31
You know, I asked him I almost take a slightly different approach and that instead of making requests, I'd like to ask a question.

Lynn:   53:43
So that's good.

David:   53:44
Yeah, I'd rather ask a question like, What is that you are trying to become or who is it you're trying to become? And what resource is do you have available to help you get there? And if you're looking for resource, is that you haven't found, Look here, we might have something for you.

Lynn:   54:05
That's good.

David:   54:06
But if if we don't have resources that can help you, then keep searching. Keep looking for them. But start with who is it you're trying to become? And I say that because as a parent, when I was when my kids were very young, I could tell the times that I was dissatisfied with myself as a parent or my parents break behavior because I didn't feel like I was living up to the picture I had in my head of the dad. I wanted to be right. So when I wasn't being the dad I wanted to be, then it was like, OK, well, then who are you trying to be? And how would that person behave? And how? Where can I go get some resource and some help to help guide me and encouraged me to be that Is it to copy somebody who I really admire? Or is it to read a book or you know what? The stores What inspiration? What resource Dough I d. So my, that's why I say I start with a

Lynn:   54:59
question. Who are you trying to become?

David:   55:01
What were you trying to become? I love where you trying to go and then we get back to the change thing. Do you have enough dissatisfaction

Lynn:   55:10
vision into step

David:   55:11
and maybe I'm the first step. Start with going to growing champions for life dot com. Yeah, okay, give David Benzel A and E Mail David that growing champions for life that you know and and I will respond if there's some

Lynn:   55:25
growing champions for like dot com. David David at growing champions for life. And how about social media? Like Are you on Twitter and Instagram Facebook

David:   55:33
linked in especially. We're just now starting to look at Instagram. We haven't done much on there. Yeah, I do. A monthly webinar. I have 24 different webinars.

Lynn:   55:43
Fantastic. How long are these seven are

David:   55:45
The Web owners are usually about 40 to 45 minutes of content and then 15 minutes of Q and A perfect and eso You could listen to one a month for two years before you'd ever hear a repeat. Nice is that many topics that we have addressed.

Lynn:   56:00
Amazing. That's a great resource.

David:   56:02
And, uh and then, you know, I have this website growing champions for life dot com, but I also have a website called Growing Leaders for Life.

Lynn:   56:09
Okay, so that's on the corporate side of

David:   56:11
the corporate side, right? And you can see how similar the messages are right. It's just delivery slightly different when talking to parents and coaches, and it might be two managers and supervisors. But,

Lynn:   56:23
you know, examples was like, you know, my daughter Jennifer and I used to work together, and now she's started her own business and she she goes out under. You are not alone and she's working with the parents of kids and addiction, and what's interesting is we're teaching the same thing, and people are often asking her her approach and she says, Well, it's not clinical. It's based on leadership. Consulting is based on the leadership coaching I used to do. She's a basketball coach. She's the head coach for our local school, now little basketball team, and she played it at an elite level and so forth. So all these things were coming across the same way for her. So I totally understand what you're saying because it is a little different oven approach with parents, and that's what she kind of owns that space of working with the parents. In this case, kids that have gone into addiction and the parents are really talk about personal, really lost. But that's, um it's interesting because there's so many parallels to what she teaches and what I teach and what we take, what you and I teach like so many of the things that you said today, I think my audience will really resonate with good, so I will make sure always to contact you are in the show notes. So if you're listening, you confined this. Um, and you're a brave man to give your email. I don't know that I'm gonna have enough listeners to fill your inbox that I hope. I hope I'd like to test that theory. So I

David:   57:35
answered when people write to me with a question,

Lynn:   57:37
I need to write an answer Law on a long way from having a big enough body and every personally. And I'm not even sure it's funny. I don't even inspire getting there, so Yeah. Anyway. Well, hey, I cannot thank you enough for sitting down with me. I'm starving. I don't know about you, but we're gonna go to dinner.

David:   57:53
All right. Well, this is fun.

Lynn:   57:54
This is really frank conversation. Really wise.

David:   57:57
You write this. 15 minutes flew by.

Lynn:   57:59
I think it's a little longer if you're still listening. Thanks for staying with us. And we'll see you next time. Thank you for listening to the creative spirits unleashed podcast. I started this podcast because I was having these great conversations and I wanted to share them with others. I'm always learning in these conversations, and I wanted to share that kind of learning with you. Now, what I need to hear from you is what you want more of and what you want less off. I really want these podcasts to be a value for the listeners. Also, if you happen to know someone who you think might love them, please share the podcast and, of course, subscribe and write it on the different APS that you're using, because that's how others will find it. Now I hope you go and do something very fun today.