Ralph De La Rosa - The Heart of Compassion

Ralph De La Rosa – The Heart of Compassion

[00:00:00] nick: We're here, we're talking and I'm, I'm thrilled. So thank you so much.

[00:00:05] ralph: Yeah. I'm thrilled that you're thrilled. So, yeah. Thanks for having me much appreciated.

[00:00:09] nick: Not at all. absolute pleasure I, I um labored long and hard over what to talk about. And then I kind of relaxed a bit and thought whatever comes up will come up. Um, I'll preface all questions. Not that there are any, um, curly ones in there, but if, if you feel like answering a different question, then, then do that.

[00:00:31] I had the best chat Janet Elsbach. Um, Um, and she was the same. She said, I can't even remember what you asked me, but I'm just gonna, this is what feels, right. that's the way the conversation went.

[00:00:43] Yeah. 

[00:00:44] ralph: Wonderful. 

[00:00:45] Yeah. 

[00:00:46] nick: for, 

[00:00:46] people who, um, on this side of the world who may not have, um, come across your work, would you mind doing a little bit of a thumbnail sketch about who Ralph is and how he came up be doing

[00:00:57] ralph: Yeah.

[00:00:58] nick: you're doing now?

[00:01:00] ralph: Yeah. I'll try to give you the brief version because it's been quite a windy path, very complex and a bit convoluted as to, in terms of how I've come to hold the seat of. And a facilitator, a teacher, if you will, um, therapist, um, meditation, teacher, author, et cetera. Um, so I grew up in a family where there was a lot of love, but a lot of pain and, um, a lot of pain that I left behind by, by, uh, fathers who abandoned and abused.

[00:01:36] And, um, that set me on a trajectory of. Um, wanting to wanting two things. One what's a way out. And second of all, I've been from a very young age, having a sense of, there's gotta be more than this, you know, there's gotta be a truth beyond this. This, this cannot be why we're here. And I mean like five, six years old, having that sense of this, this can't be it there's something's off.

[00:02:03] And, um, that just kind of got worse and worse. So in terms of the pain, the trauma, the abandonment, um, Or divergent, um, um, gender non-conforming that didn't fly too well. And, uh, public schools in Southern California growing up in, in the eighties and nineties. Um, so there was a lot of bullying, um, quite a bit of violence, um, that I endured and that, um, sent me in, in two directions, really one just wanting the way out, you know, um, wanting to escape really.

[00:02:40] Um, and that looked like. Drug addiction that looked like a lot of different addictions and compulsive behaviors and, uh, kind of an addiction to chaos even. And it also looked like a longing for, for spirituality. Um, I really had from an early age, a sense that spirituality was, was, the way the problem was.

[00:03:00] I approached, you know, I've been, uh, exploring the spiritual path since the time I was six, but in an Eastern sense, in Eastern context, in terms of Vedic, spiritual, And Buddhism, uh, healing modalities. And what have you, um, since the mid nineties and my initial approach was very escapist, very spiritual bypassing.

[00:03:22] We have that, that term spiritual bypassing now. Um, and that took me into, you know, Hari Krishna ashram at some, at one point, um, I had the teacher, Amma became my guru and she's wonderful. Um, however, I was trying to use her as an escape. In a lot of waysand mantra as an escape and the path of devotion as an escape.

[00:03:45] And it really wasn't until, um, I sat down with, uh, Buddhist teachers, um, and I don't really identify so much as, as straight up Buddhist anymore. I kind of post Buddhist. But, um, it wasn't until I got exposed to just sit your butt down and go inside and no mantras, nothing special, no visualizations. Just work with yourself.

[00:04:12] Work with your breath, work with the fact that you can't work with your breath. Concentration is nearly impossible for a 21st century human, um, work with. The frustrations, the emotions work with what's uncovered, um, and find the heart of compassion. You know, don't try to get out of it, go into it and find the heart of compassion there.

[00:04:35] And that particular form of practice actually began before. Um, when I was in a longterm residential substance abuse treatment center, that was publicly funded, meaning, um, I was in there with, you know, some folks who had really been through some things and gone to some dark places, um, killers and, and, uh, and, uh, folks who really struggled with homeless.

[00:05:04] Folks who, um, just just were amongst the most despised in our society. And, um, you know, it was very kind of a dark time. And that's where my practice took root actually was at the very bottom, not on the mountain top, but in the very bottom of the heart of distress on the verge of homelessness, no job. No.

[00:05:29] Absolutely strung out to the, to the teeth and no, um, no, no way out anymore. No, no escaping anymore. That that could work. And, um, my work now is really actually inspired by the experience that I had there because I saw that. Reaching our absolute wit's end. What happens in this was true of the folks that I was, uh, uh, in rehab with as well that I saw, you know, hardened guys from the penitentiary.

[00:06:06] That were literally unshackled on the premises. And then they were my roommates trying yoga class, trying mindfulness, going to a grief and loss workshop and opening up. And like it just, this, this magic thing of, of one where at the bottom, there's a winter. We're willing to say, okay, my way doesn't work.

[00:06:30] Let me actually humble myself in and try a different way. And, um, and when I came out of that experience and I was okay for the first time I was on 60 milligrams of Prozac every day. Um, and developing a meditation practice, developing a yoga practice, uh, uh, and, and, and really it's like not super, just beaten down by trauma for the very first time in my life.

[00:07:00] Um, I thought I want to be that person who gets to be there when folks are at that window. I really think I know. Um, I have my own version of being at the depths and, and, and I really think I can make a difference. I think I I'm, uh, uh, if I educate myself, if I continue to practice, if I continue to develop, you know, let me be that person, you know, please life at large.

[00:07:27] Let me be that person that's there in that window for people. And, um, yeah, I had no high school diploma and no money. And they'll support from family. And I just said, you know what, screw it. We're going to do this. I don't care what it takes and went to school for six years and, uh, continued to study and practice Buddhism.

[00:07:50] And, and, uh, here we are almost 15 years after that moment. You know, and, um, and I'm, I can't believe the opportunity that I have with the books and, and the teaching and the way that it's all kind of blown up. Um, yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's really, I'm grateful. I'm eternally grateful, like forehead on the.

[00:08:18] Grateful every single day that I get to have this life. Cause I really thought I belonged in the gutter. Um, and I really thought like I w I needed to be dead by 30 and neither of those things were true. Neither of those things are true. I want to say one more thing. Actually. I know I'm being maybe a little bit more long-winded than what was initially desired, but, um, 

[00:08:43] I think, I think it's really.

[00:08:47] For people to hear the, the also, I didn't believe in myself the whole time. You don't have to believe in yourself. Actually, that's a myth. Um, I really thought I'm going to try and I'm going to fail. I really thought, you know, even writing my entire. It was like, this is just, you know, I had that narrative of this is impossible.

[00:09:13] How am I going to do this? But that doesn't matter. That narrative doesn't matter at all, because what you do is even though there's that narrative, you just take another step. You just wake up another day and you get on your cushion or you engage in whatever your process is. It doesn't matter at all.

[00:09:31] What your mind tells you per se, what matters is, you know, that. Uh, to persevere and that's where all results and all benefits come from is our ability to keep going. No matter what. So, yeah. Thanks for asking me to share a little bit of that.

[00:09:55] nick: No. Thank you. Um, I'm absolutely blown away because it's interesting how, um, you did reference the high school diploma and yet the, uh, The quality of the content and the authenticity and the books. I mean, I've got my dog shit. She may occasionally wish to say hello 

[00:10:18] is amazing. It's amazing. It's, uh, it's so obvious that you have a thirst for knowledge and a commitment to understanding. And, um, and th the fact that you're willing to show. I dunno, it w I was compelling, to

[00:10:37] ralph: Hmm. 

[00:10:38] nick: initially to monkey meets the messenger and then to read, uh, Dan tell me to relax. Huge,

[00:10:44] ralph: Yeah, 

[00:10:45] nick: So, yeah. Thank you for doing what you've done.

[00:10:48] ralph: yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, we we're all geniuses. We really are like every single person walking this planet has the capacity to breathe something much greater than they imagined is possible for them. The talent doesn't exist. It's just, there's, there's just folks who like put in the hours and then focus it on, you know?

[00:11:14] And so it's up to us. Um, yeah. Yeah.

[00:11:21] nick: That's um, a potent statement because you said, it doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel nice. Uh, and you think that somehow effort should be accompanied by something that feels better or, but often the feeling better comes as a result of, I don't know, looking back and going, wow. I, I did that anyway.

[00:11:43] ralph: Yeah. 

[00:11:44] yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was sitting with, um, uh, my friend Linda Sparrow, who, uh, is an amazing author and is, uh, I call her the Patty Smith of the yoga world. And she asked me to speak to a group of writers that she was coaching. And she was like, you know, what about, you know, focusing. That just feel like, you know, writing a book is going to be overwhelming.

[00:12:12] It's going to, you know, it's going to be too much. It's going to be really stressful. I'm going to feel vulnerable and exposed. And, um, my answer to that was, you know, that's going to happen anyways. Life is going to overwhelm me. Life will find a way to overwhelm you, stress you out, leave you vulnerable exposed.

[00:12:30] Anyways, you might as well. You know, if, if three years from now, you know, you could have a book in your hand, you might as well go through all of that. And how. In your hand, or having done the work in therapy or having done the work, you know, on the cushion and your spiritual practice or whatever it is, having raised your kids, you know, uh, et cetera.

[00:12:50] Um, whatever it is that you feel called to do uniquely called, just go for it. It's like, whatever it takes, you can, you can handle it. We rebuilt it's, it's really fascinating actually like the human at the biological level at the center. we are built to tolerate pain and we're built to grow stronger from enduring difficulty we're actually made for it.

[00:13:18] That's like how it works. Joy, joy matters too. Don't get me wrong, you know, but the difficult stuff is always there. So we might as well get good at utilizing that end of the spectrum as well. You know?

[00:13:33] nick: That's that's um, a beautiful point. That leads me to a question I had for a bit lighter, but it seems like it fits but beautifully. Now I've said to a few friends that, um, with COVID, uh, and all the, I guess, things that are running in parallel with. It's the space between, um, significant events seems to be so much smaller. And, uh, like our ability to recover is I guess, the area that we can focus on because we're having to deal with stress in a much more efficient way. Um, I heard you talk about a quote from, I think it was Michael McNamara. It's chaos. Um, I don't want it to ask, does that work?

[00:14:18] ralph: Yeah. 

[00:14:19] nick: for us?

[00:14:19] And by default others,

[00:14:22] ralph: Yeah. Well, in there there's a formula, right? That's in a way that's, that's, uh, in a way that, uh, Michelle McNamara's where it says, uh, uh, uh, or a meditation instruction

[00:14:36] nick: Michelle, I'm

[00:14:36] ralph: to be. Yeah. Oh, I'll go ahead. I'll get back. But yeah. Um,

[00:14:44] let's, let's do something let's make this practical. can we 

[00:14:48] can we do a little, a little practice here? Cause we could talk about this, you know, and that's great. We can continue talking about it after this, but, but the basic idea is we have to find a way to open the heart of compassion. We can't just like kamikaze.

[00:15:07] Guilty or go into these insufferable times with, with no compass with no know-how with no a technique or method methodology, right. About us. Right. And so compassion is the thing that will make it possible. It won't necessarily make it better. It'll make it possible, right. To walk through it, you know, like, uh, check Bukovsky road, you know, what matters most is how you walked through the fire.

[00:15:35] Not so much that you're walking through fire that. How, how you walk through it does define you. And so right now, this is, this is in the monkey is the messenger. This is in don't tell me to relax. This is in all of my online courses that I get to teach right now. Anybody who's listening can just start noticing their breath.

[00:15:57] And allowing every exhale to simply leave the body and fade. Right. And there's no need to inhale right away. Just let the exhale fade and stay in the space between breaths for a couple seconds. And you'll feel when the body wants to inhale. Go ahead and shepherd the inhale. Yeah.

[00:16:24] And then let the next breath just simply leave and fade into open space,

[00:16:32] gentle, inhale when the time is right.

[00:16:44] And in that space, things start to slow down. Don't they, they start to downshift the heart. Down-regulates the nervous system chills out.

[00:16:58] Step one,

[00:17:03] step two, keep breathing just like that. And imagine your nose is in the center of your chest, the central, the sternum, and you're breathing. Into the heart space. And now from the heart space,

[00:17:27] I want to show you something about the heart space

[00:17:33] and anyone who's listening, constructed the wreath all the way back towards the store.

[00:17:41] Notice that there's all this density in the front of the heart. If you go all the way to the back body, there's open space.

[00:18:02] I'd have to resolve the density in the front of the heart. You just go all the way through. We went and there's a space that goes on forever. Back there.

[00:18:17] Stay here just 30 more seconds, exploring that space.

[00:18:56] No beginning to transition out of this very short exploration, ask yourself, am I a little more available? Is the heart a little more available? And I sense a place inside where it might be possible to have empathy for myself, curiosity about what I can learn here.

[00:19:27] It's right there. It's right there. You know, we did that for three minutes. How are you feeling?

[00:19:34] nick: Um, much better, much better. Yeah. Um, um, I professional at, uh, anxiety borderline panic. So that was a very fast route to not so the antithesis of both of those. So thank you. That was beautiful. 

[00:19:53] Really 

[00:19:54] ralph: I mean, that was like three minutes, man. Um, 

[00:19:59] but, uh, yeah, so to find that, when I say. Compassion in the midst of the difficulty of the suffering, you know, it's, it, it can be that literal, like literally go into the heart and see what's there for a moment. The first technique of setting it's called setting the breath in its natural rhythm, letting that exhale feed out to space, it's really just slowing down the mind.

[00:20:25] So that there's enough space for us to do that set aside. Whatever the struggle is for a moment and then go into the heart, literally into the heart, which is an in the front it's in the back. And from there, how can you carry that energy into whatever comes to, I

[00:20:51] wish more 

[00:20:52] meditation teachers taught this.

[00:20:55] nick: Yeah. Yeah. I've, um, I've looked around in Australia and another, there are plenty here, but there's a lot of, a lot of complicated stuff. Um, that that's

[00:21:08] ralph: To put that in a kinder way, actually in a less 

[00:21:11] cynical way, frankly. Um, you're, you're you're professional anxiety. I'm a professional at being acidic, but, um, I wish this was. I wish more people knew about this wholesale, including meditation, teachers, this stuff isn't taught so much that it's, when we talk about the heart's already open, that there's place inside where there's nothing wrong with you, that you're already awake, that you're already saying you're already free.

[00:21:40] And that stuff gets that it's taught. It's like almost some vague mystical thing that maybe one day you'll discover. And, um, I've been fortunate to meet with the. Practices that show you directly on now. It's right there. You can literally touch it right now. It doesn't take too much training to begin, you know, anyways.

[00:22:09] nick: That's and simple and simple potent in its simplicity. Um, I've, I've heard you talk about, um, uh, quote, uh, love is what we're born with and fear is what we learn while we're here.

[00:22:22] ralph: Yeah. 

[00:22:23] nick: what you were talking about. Could, could you expand a little on that?

[00:22:27] ralph: Yeah. That's I think that's another Marianne Williamson quote. Right. And she say that I think so.

[00:22:34] nick: She could do it to see if, uh, stuff up here.

[00:22:37] ralph: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, well, there are outliers here. I don't want to speak in absolutes and say it's always this way, but generally speaking, when infants come into the world, And there hasn't been like some significant trauma in that prenatal phase or, you know, uh, on the whole, you know, when an infant comes into the world,

[00:23:09] what are they like? You know, just open, available, you know, wanting to, uh, uh, love and be love, wanting to be held, wanting to stay where the warmth is. Wanting to stay where the goodness is, you know, very, very simple. There's a open awakeness to two children. Um, my former teacher, I'm a forever teacher really, but, uh, uh, says, you know, you want to see God look into the eyes of a child, you know?

[00:23:46] Um, so we're born with, we're hard wired for that capacity to connect, to be warm. Um, to, uh, revel and Tabasco and connection and war, and then the trouble begins, right? Because we're also, that's not the whole story, but you know, we're also vulnerable. We're also very, very sensitive. There were open for all programming and to all inputs, to condition us.

[00:24:20] And we are 1000% dependent. On caregivers who have been torn up and shoot up by life, like everybody, you know, and have their own confusions, their own unresolved child months, et cetera, that you know, begins to wire us essentially. Right. So that's the fear is what we learned here. Piece kind of convinced I I'm not too into determinism or, or anything.

[00:24:54] I'm kind of convinced that this is the universal way that it tends to work, that you come in, in this beautiful state as an infant. Um, we get torn up. We got, you know, we absorb pain, shame and fear, and then we've got to figure out how to defend against that work with it, uh, psychically and maybe even physically survive, uh, uh, Um, stances and that leads us to a lot of defense mechanisms and then, you know, on and on, we become more and more labyrinthian.

[00:25:33] Um, but it's almost as if like the first stage of life is like what bangs us up. And then we spend the rest of our lives working that out. And the only way though, to really work it out, there's a thousand things can, that can work, but they all have one ingredient in them and that's compassion. The only way to work that out is to find some compassion, rooted, uh, process with yourself.

[00:26:01] That's the only way to meaningfully permanently work it out. Um, and I think that evolutionarily speaking, it seems to be well that's uh, yeah, that's the process of, of spiritual awakening.

[00:26:22] nick: But, um, that's message because I think you're spot on. Like, if I look at my own experience and people, um, who I love and. Um, connected to it is that first chunk of life, you know, we stagger around, uh, in a very misguided and misinformed way, bumping into things and getting wounded. And then I look at people my own age.

[00:26:51] Now some of them refuse to look at it and deal with it, but those that do and can sometimes practice compassion externally for. And I think by default they realize they, they burn out and then they need to take care of themselves. And the more, the 

[00:27:09] more we sink, the more we have an opportunity to practice.

[00:27:12] Self-compassion. yeah, 

[00:27:15] ralph: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah. Where we're speaking specifically about things that. Really work in a meaningful way and that can really transport us, um, and teach us how to really make meaning of our experience, extract the insights and lessons that are in the experience and, and frankly, uh, light a fire in us to, um, you know, be there for others, which gets us into the sociopolitical realm as well.

[00:27:49] Compassionate needs to be institutionalized in society. And we've got that's part of the path of compassion to fight for that. Um, but you know, like the repression thing that might work for a little while performing, uh, compassion that might work for little health performing spirituality that might work for a little while these, uh, um, or superficial.

[00:28:15] Um, they, they, and often times, you know, we need to go down those detour paths in order to, you know, be cornered enough to say, all right, let's get serious. Let's get where it rather let's get earnest.

[00:28:32] nick: I love Pema. Children's quite a bit by the book title as well. The wisdom of no retreat

[00:28:38] ralph: Yeah.

[00:28:39] nick: of her books are bought and they've gone straight on the shelf because I'm just not at that time. Bold enough. I'm hoping that osmotically, I'll get something, you know, a places that scare you, but I love her sense of humor that just kind of warms my heart and 

[00:28:53] inspires me when people 

[00:28:55] can bring a sense of humor to really difficult stuff. That's also good medicine.

[00:29:04] ralph: I have one of those books to, uh, Jon Kabat Zinn, full catastrophe living. It's just sits there. And the title itself speaks 

[00:29:16] volumes, right? Like, like to grow into somebody who like, come, what may I can live through this. I can even thrive in the midst of it, you know, much like, um, uh, uh, we also have man's search for meaning Viktor Frankl, right?

[00:29:32] Somebody who woke up in the most horrendous of circumstances, Auschwitz, you know, and came to these realizations about. Purpose of life and how it all works in that situation. You know, as I've been thinking about and talking about Viktor Frankl so much, uh, in the midst of 2020, and now almost almost worse in a way 20, 21.

[00:29:59] nick: He, um, yeah, he certainly is. Alight. Um, that is very, uh, very powerful and very relevant to what's going on now, talking about books. Can I get you to talk about, uh, specifically, I guess don't tell me to relax, but also the monkey is the messenger that, great works. I guess, um, I'll just let you talk about them, cause that. There's so much in there. and specific methodologies in reference and also like therapy methodologies. And there's also the lens of trauma in there, which is for me, very exciting. I had a long question. Sorry, I'll keep it brief. But I had a 

[00:30:45] chat with Dr. Kathy Kesselman. Who's the blue Knight foundation president over here, which is, um, the center for complex trauma. And that was the, I guess, if you could boil down what we spoke about before. Was that when you can view things through the lens of trauma, everything makes sense, but, um, I'll,

[00:31:05] ralph: It really does. I really believe that's a trauma lens. Yeah. Yeah. I really do believe that the trauma lens, which thankfully is, you know, thanks. Thanks to, you know, your friend and the work that she does. Thanks to folks like, uh, Bessel van der Kolk, and Richard Schwartz and, um, and, um, all the somatic experiencing practitioners out there, you know, that are, uh, better disseminating, uh, this, this understanding this view.

[00:31:38] It really does. It makes everything. And from the societal and the global jet down to the granularity of what's personal, it makes sense. And I really think if we could internalize and learn, um, you know, how our emotions work, why they matter that they're not that they're not yet. Something that's in the way, some inconvenience in life, but that they're here to teach us things that how cognition really works, where cognitions come from, where repetitive cognitions come from.

[00:32:09] Um, the trauma lens has so much to teach us about these things that a one-time, where we're very murky and confusing and, and nebulous to, to assault. And, um, I really think that if we got it at the societal level and could, again, institutionalized that it would save us. And so that's, um, that's the impetus for, for the books with monkey, the messenger?

[00:32:32] Um, you know, I just, I was sick of hearing the message that, you know, the monkey mind was no good and garbage and that the thinking mind is no good and it's garbage. And that, you know, the ego is this evil thing that you want to kill. For Christ's sake. I mean, you know, from a self love platform, how does that make sense from a radical love platform from a radical compassion platform?

[00:32:56] How does these philosophies make sense? And I constantly raising my hand in Buddhist retreat saying, why are we talking about killing. Part of ourselves in this context of radical acceptance, this, there seems to be a dichotomy here. And so monkey is a messenger was really born of that. Um, that train of thought of like, well, you know, I started sitting with myself and saying, well, if, if you know, if the obstacle is the path and if the challenge is the teacher, if the difficulty is a way, then how, what does the difficulty of having a monkey mind have to.

[00:33:35] And the more I sat with that, the more answers I found until one day I was like, this is actually, you know, the outline of a book, you know, that, that being driven mad by our monkey minds could even be one of these evolutionary things that drives us to spiritual processes, to therapy, to, you know, all kinds of things.

[00:34:00] And that's, so that, that in essence is. But it's good that we have a monkey mind that forces us, compels us to ask deeper questions, you know, and then part of that, that exploration was, you know, the trauma lens, you know, which, which the monkey is a messenger starts out being, it was a little bit of a bait and switch.

[00:34:22] I wanted to write a book that, you know, hooked folks. You know, this very universal problem of, I have a monkey mind it's driving me mad and then gets people into no, actually part of the story here, a big part of the story is we're all traumatized in some way, and we need to work with that. And actually that's actually the true spiritual path is to part of it is to be working with that, resolving it.

[00:34:48] And did we know that we can heal? We can permanently heal and resolve trauma. It's possible. It doesn't even have to be the rest of your life working on it. That's possible. Right. And, um, the, the modality of internal family systems, which is finally gaining traction in the mainstream, um, uh, is, is peppered throughout the book.

[00:35:12] And then I get into, um, that, that, uh, uh, the nuts and bolts of, of that view and that lens and how to bring it into meditation, which had never, uh, uh, been done, uh, uh, In terms of blending ifs with, um, Buddhist practice, uh, in a book. Uh, and, um, yeah, and then, uh, don't tell me to relax was really written.

[00:35:39] Actually the Shambala publications came to me and said, listen, I think 2020 is going to be, you know, a horrendous year with the election, you know, with, uh, American presidential election and coming up. And I think they wanted to have a book out there that could help meditators. Um, make sense of it all and find a way through that.

[00:35:59] Wasn't about, well, you got to accept what's going on and this is just some Saara and this is, you know, but like how do we both psychically survive these times and, um, learn to thrive in these times and how do we activate ourselves to make a difference in the world as well? You know, how do we stand for what's true.

[00:36:22] And what's right. It's and it's one thing to have self-compassion but we got it. Expand that. And how do we do that when we feel so pressed? And, um, and so I, yeah, so they, they asked me to, to write a book and, uh, that was on that thing. And of course, uh, the trauma lens, um, had to be incorporated in there as well.

[00:36:47] If we're going to talk about emotional resilience, you know, we've got to talk about trauma. Um, and then somewhere along the way, Just made sense for me to make the book much more personal than it set out to be. And I told her sizable chunk of my own story of, of, uh, uh, uh, experiences with my dad and his abuse and, um, and how that, uh, you know, played out in specifically.

[00:37:16] Are you most in my life and what that eventually had to teach me how looking back, you know, there's so many lessons and insights. And then I also had the opportunity to go into, um, some of my experiences as a social worker, uh, because I worked in the foster care system of New York city. Um, and you know, I had all this, you know, I, I grew up around, I discovered radical feminism when I was 16.

[00:37:44] Um, uh, You know, I had all this education around social justice and intersectionality and these things, but then I found myself actually walking into housing projects in the Bronx and, you know, uh, and, and working with traumatized kids and parents who, you know, have their own, you know, intersectional oppression going on and playing out in their families.

[00:38:11] And what have you. And it was just one thing to have a theoretical or. You know, or, uh, uh, understanding of social justice and intersectionality, the way power and privilege and oppression work and society. It was another thing to go and sit and fix the living rooms. And so, um, that we're dealing with matrices of poverty, racial oppression, um, and on and on and on and on.

[00:38:37] Right. Um, it's, uh, it's another thing to be right in this, in the middle and working with a family that's that's, uh, Where the, these things are very real and alive and active dynamic voices in their lives. Um, and so getting to take readers into those experiences and, and some stories of the children that I met there, um, as well, uh, really meaningful to me and, um, and hopefully, uh, broke down a little bit of that academic wall for the reader as well, tends to persist with.

[00:39:16] With, uh, yeah, if you're white, if you're from a middle class background, if you're, you know, of the dominant culture, you know, you can read books on intersectionality and you can dig into your own personal decolonization work, but it's, yeah, it's very different than seeing it in vivo. How, how it actually operates.

[00:39:41] nick: Yes. Yeah, I've done. I'd just like to acknowledge how gosh, how I, um, how huge, a toll that must've taken emotionally to, uh, I imagine experience the triggering of this intense situations and still keep showing up. And I know that you referenced in one of the books that, uh, a department head said, don't worry, you'll get a thick skin. And, uh, and then it will be easier. And you said, no, then you pointed to the heart. And so this is the compass. Um, so that that's huge.

[00:40:21] ralph: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't even the one having the bad day, but yeah, it's very, very tough work and not meant to be long-term I think at least from.

[00:40:37] nick: Hmm. 

[00:40:39] ralph: veterans in that field because the machinery of bureaucracy and what have you are so intense and you see families often going backwards instead of forwards, it rips you up in such a way that it's very hard to stay on the front lines of that kind of work before, you know, we have this term vicarious trauma.

[00:41:01] AKA burnout sets in and then key symptom of burnout. As you lose empathy, then you're going, well, why? No, this isn't why I'm here. If I'm becoming hardened in the process and

[00:41:17] nick: Yes.

[00:41:18] ralph: yeah. Yeah.

[00:41:20] nick: I'm mindful of time. I could, I could talk to you for days and not. You know, but I'm 

[00:41:27] mindful of your time and to, I guess, key questions, one of which you've actually probably answered, but I'm going to ask it anyway is, um, if people are feeling that they are spiraling out of control and they're over, negatively stimulated from the media, uh, caught in, uh, false refuge type behaviors. Where's a good place to start. How would you begin to work through that?

[00:42:01] ralph: So when I get overwhelmed, um, I, I call it triage mode, you know, cause that's what it is. You got to check the basics, check the vital. You know, um, this is pedantic and a bit, uh, what's the word I'm looking for a bit redundant, but you know, we gotta go back to the basics so often. And I started looking at how's my sleep.

[00:42:34] How many glasses of water did I drink yesterday? And the day before what's, what's the vegetable content of what I'm digesting right now. You know, where. How's my meditation practice. Have I been doing meditation? Practice meditation is a game-changer. I don't, I don't think you would want to know me if I didn't sit every single day, you know, have I broken a sweat?

[00:42:57] Have I gotten that heart rate up in some way? Which, you know, Matters of able-bodied NIS come into, into play there, but there's always some way there's usually some way, um, to, to get some sort of healthy movement or increase the circulation, at least through breath, work, breath work is another practice.

[00:43:20] Sometimes I don't meditate. Sometimes I offer a bunch of different breath work practices for toning and regulating the nervous system where, you know, you don't have to worry about your message. You just follow the instructions to breathe and let everything else go. And sometimes that the coarseness of that, uh, really helps, um, me to actually practice so that I'm well, and then, um, you know, life purpose since a sense of purpose in it too, you know, the Tibetans.

[00:43:54] Have this, um, prayer when they're going through a hard time, um, that there's is a kind of standardized prayer of, you know, the suffering that I have right now may be the suffering of all beings. If I'm going through this, then let me absorb the global situation. May it somehow be so that. Suffering on behalf of the world.

[00:44:20] And, um, there's actually some research on that prayer. Now that indicates, you know, that, uh, the sense of meaning and purpose and inspiration that it gives people, um, really helps mitigate. The, you know, not all trauma has to become traumatic stress and not all traumatic stress has to become PTSD as ways to mitigate.

[00:44:43] So making meaning of your experience as well. It's possible. It's possible.

[00:45:04] Uh, I seem to have lost you. I can't seem to hear you, or you may be muted my family.

[00:45:12] nick: Thank you Rouse,

[00:45:14] ralph: Uh, yeah.

[00:45:17] nick: uh, the joys of technology and ineptitude. Um, I, the practice that you're referring to is that Tomlin.

[00:45:28] ralph: It's a version of it. Yeah. 

[00:45:30] That's a version of.

[00:45:32] nick: I know, that when I live with chronic pain, I have, I'm getting better with fibromyalgia and chronic migraine. But one thing that was game-changing for me was, was, um, when I was experiencing that and breathing into it and had got to a stage where that was. That may I experience this other people may be free of it? I could still be sitting on the same couch or rocking chair, not real happy about what was going on, but there was something quite magical, uh, like a catalyst about it. So, so one

[00:46:15] ralph: introducing. Yeah, please go on. Go ahead. Come on.

[00:46:18] nick: I was

[00:46:19] ralph: Well, I'll just say, I'll just, 

[00:46:20] nick: you, you said what you're saying, and then we

[00:46:24] ralph: I'll just say that. I just want, I want to point out, cause it's been in our whole conversation here that that's introducing, uh, an air of compassionate. Bringing an air of compassion into the situation, which again, we're just going to have her on. That's the only thing that works.

[00:46:41] nick: Yes,

[00:46:43] ralph: Yeah. 

[00:46:43] nick: done. Of the chronic pain. I got a whole bunch of tattoos and one of them is the Buddhist, not of infinite compassion. And it's funny how in responding to myself and in responding to others, that compassion is never the wrong answer. Never no matter how much I perceive someone to have pissed me off or done the wrong thing.

[00:47:05] If I made it with compassion. Whatever imagined story I built around, it seems to dissolve and, and become better. And I learn, so, yeah. Thank you for hammer on hammer on away. Um, I guess one final two-part question is how do people connect with you and what I've seen? You've got an offering, which I know that's began Chrysalis.

[00:47:29] So the other, is it too late for people to join that? Or, um,

[00:47:33] ralph: Nope. 

[00:47:33] nick: answer.

[00:47:35] ralph: Yeah. Yeah. So my website is Ralph delarosa.com and my Instagram is simply Ralph Delarosa of all the social media platforms, most active on Instagram. Um, also insight timer, which is in Australia. Um, but it's global and one of the biggest meditation apps out there, I have, um, tons of free meditations.

[00:47:58] There's a paid program called a guide to healing trauma. That's only 20 bucks on there. So 11 module, um, uh, very flash in the pan, like crash course, but, um, also a really good, you know, if you're looking for a foothold, um, and some things that'll help right away that are very accessible, that's there. And then, um, I also have online courses, which Chrysalis is this semester long immersion.

[00:48:25] Um, that goes in three phases and anybody can hop in, uh, by the time this comes out. We'll probably be just about to start the. Phase, which is called redefining self-love. Um, and then that dovetails into, um, uh, uh, uh, parts work course parts where it being the central practice of internal family systems, which I've been lightly referencing this whole interview.

[00:48:49] Um, so yeah, so there's lots of opportunities to engage and, um, of course there's the books. The monkey is the messenger meditation. And what your busy mind is trying to tell you, as well as don't. Relax, emotional resilience in the age of rage fields and freak outs. So no shortage of opportunities. If any of this is intriguing to anybody and they want to go deeper.

[00:49:17] nick: Well, I can wholeheartedly recommend, uh, both books and, um, I've listened to a couple of the meditations on, um, on SoundCloud and insight timer. And also your referenced breathwork earlier the 4, 8, 12 has got me out of hot water. Um,

[00:49:34] ralph: Awesome. 

[00:49:35] nick: support, specifically medical. I find very challenging, but the four at 12, my oxygen saturation was perfect. I was calm and I was about to go in for surgery. And so thank you for that. Uh, so

[00:49:50] ralph: Yeah. 

[00:49:51] nick: to, um, just bring it back and die

[00:49:54] ralph: And I'm so glad I'm in chronic pain. That's a really complex situation and the medical bureaucracy and everything else. Yeah. So I'm really. That at least gave you one smaller wasteless in the big desert of all of that, 

[00:50:10] for sure. 

[00:50:12] nick: Ralph, thank you so much. I am extremely grateful and I'd love to chat more in the future. As, as things evolve. If you're open. Because, yeah, there is so much more

[00:50:24] ralph: Yeah. 

[00:50:25] nick: about and I think you're an amazing light that is very spot on and pertinent for the, the times that we're collectively working through.

[00:50:35] ralph: Yeah, you're a great interview and neck. I'm happy to come back anytime. I really have such a smooth presence. It's it's actually exerted influence on me here. So Yeah. 

[00:50:45] Yeah. Very 

[00:50:46] enjoyable being here with you.