Tim Terrentine talks Courage at the Zeigler Auto Group |EP146

It's a beautiful thing that happens when human when we take that small step of just connecting instead of shrinking.

Welcome everyone to the driving vision podcast brought to you by the Zigler Auto Group. I'm your host, Sam Dark. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast. Like it if you do, and leave a comment. Hey, everybody.

Welcome to the special edition of the Driving Vision future of Zach Today podcast. And back with us again today, obviously, Araya Daniels, welcome.

Thank you, Sam. Glad to be here.

VP Talent Development. But, Tim Tarantine with Translators Consulting Group.

That's right. Right? Yes. I got it. You got it?

Yeah.

So, Tim, it was awesome because I wasn't expecting to see you today. I was up here, recording some stuff, had an Internet outage, which we've got to get to the bottom of. And I came and was able to sit in on your classroom. It was an absolute delight because I don't often get to sit in on the classes.

It was fun to hear me.

It would be what a cool conversation. And let's just get into it. Courage.

Courage was the call of the game.

Araya, what does courage mean to you after today?

You know, courage really is synonymous with me with confidence. And so when I think about being courageous, being confident, so I'm really excited to dive into some of the really big points that we hit on for this class

today. Yeah. How would you define courage? How did you define courage today, Tim?

I well, we shared lots of definitions, but at the end of the day, it's really about taking the next small step. Yeah. Right? That in in life when we need courage, it's all about what's the next small thing I can do. Right?

Because I think it's just become such a big target for so many of us that if we can't solve the scariest thing, if we can't climb the biggest mountain, we're somehow a failure. But the truth is sometimes courage is just getting up in the morning. Oh, yeah. Sometimes it's not hitting send.

Yeah.

Right? And so we can we we have so many ways we can be courageous, without some big, you know, celebration. So what we try to do is make courage real for people at work and and explore the ways we can show up courageously.

You know, it's interesting because I've thought a lot recently. I don't know why this came up in my world past several weeks, months, whatever, but there are moments in our lives, personal and business, where you feel that tension in your chest, you start to feel nervous, you start to sweat a little bit

Oh, yeah.

And you're like, this is a decisive moment. Like, if I have courage

and I say what I know I should say, I act how I know I should act, in

that moment, it's gonna be a little bit of a challenge and uncomfortable. But if I don't, that's gonna stick with me

Yeah. Longer. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Fair?

Talk about leaving the the comfort zone. That was a huge topic of conversation today is that leaving that comfort zone takes courage.

It takes courage. Yeah.

And what you're to your point, like, holding on to that feeling, that tension in your chest, you can choose to whether you're gonna get through that moment Yeah. And work through that comfort zone or the other side of that Yeah. Or continue to deal with whatever's going on there.

Yeah. Like So you've talked to a lot of our teams as you've gone around the group. So you've been here in Kalamazoo, Granville, I think, and and the Chicagoland. What are some examples of moments where team members have needed to exhibit courage to do something difficult where it's ultimately turned out well.

Yeah. I think what I heard a lot so far today was feedback. Right? When we need to speak up, not to put anybody down or blow anything up, but to just help us get back in the groove. Yeah.

Sometimes, you know, the war of attrition. You're working hard, you're working fast, clients are all over the place for everybody. We have to work across teams, sometimes we drift. So just being able to lift my voice in a meeting to help us redirect seems like a small act, but think of how many meetings we sit in where the majority of the room is silent and everybody knows somebody should say something. Right?

So it's not necessarily some big overwhelming thing.

So but you can't just be reckless with courage. Courage also requires does it require integrity or a little bit of heart? Like, you can't just throw a ball and out the meeting. It's not gonna help

it. We did talk about that today. We had someone say, hey. You know, have you ever been in a meeting where one person will say what everyone's thinking?

Right.

And then you do it, and then everyone else gets the courage to speak up and talk about the same topic. So I think there are calculated risks that you choose to take in those moments, and it's gotta be at the right time. And we talked about that today too. Like, being able to to have the courage in those moments where you feel like, okay. It's time.

What and part of that is how you prepare for courage.

How do you how do you prepare?

Well, it's like a muscle. K. Right? You have to work out so that you have the strength you need when you need it. And that's that's a big like, for instance, one of the points of working out is to play out the scenarios.

So in that meeting where I have to speak up, I can think to myself, what's the worst that could happen if I raise my hand? And then the other consideration is what happens if I don't? What happens to my team? What happens to me? What happens to our efficiency?

What happens to our relationships if I do nothing? Right? Another one that we talked about was taking care of my body. So we all have stressful moments and things we know we have to face. There's meetings on the calendar.

There's end of the month things that come every month.

So what does taking care of your body have to do with courage? Well, how does equal fitness have to do with courage?

Well, it's not just fitness. Okay. It's sleep. It's rest. It's mindfulness.

It's take I get it. You know what? They don't sleep, but Yeah.

It's a problem

for me. Rest, man. Because courage requires us to do something we're not typically doing. And in some cases, I'm actually doing the opposite of what I'm afraid of. I can't do that on an empty tank.

Now that is interesting because when we're sleep deficient, there's that whole fight or flight. Right? Yes. Those moments of courage often to to a lot of us, either trigger a flight or they trigger, an aggressive fight. That's right.

Courage isn't going into a meeting room and picking a fight. Maybe that's what I meant earlier. Like, you have to come into that meeting with the right heart

Yeah.

To speak with courage. Because if you come in with the wrong heart and you speak with courage, you could say something truly offensive that could hurt your teeth. Boom. And then ultimately could damage what you're trying. You talk about that preparation.

How can the wrong preparation lead to damage in the teeth?

Well, courage is tied to values.

Okay.

And that's why I think particularly in the Ziegler context, you all really do push your values as a company when you talk about it. Because people can be courageous and tear people down. We we still have an endgame. Yeah.

That's not.

And so what's driving your courage?

So where's the line? Okay. It's Yeah.

Right. What's driving your courage? What do you value?

What what are my motivation?

What is your culture?

Yeah.

Right? So if the culture for instance, some companies I work with, the innovation is a big deal. We want all the ideas. We wanna be creative, but people can't speak up.

Yeah.

People can't bring new ideas without fear of being torn down. Uh-huh. Right? And so we have to create environments where courage helps our mission.

So I'm gonna put Araya on spot. So Araya did an interesting process over the past many months. You went around to many of the stores and you did culture surveys. Right? Culture surveys are a good example of a time and a place where you wanna say everything

Yep.

But you have to come with courage. You have to be courageous. So you have to know, you know, sharing everything doesn't necessarily always help. Hi. What's your perspective on these culture surveys?

And and to you as a leader, what's the most helpful feedback you get in those that builds the team, builds the culture, not terror?

Yeah. Sure. So, you know, when we're speaking specifically about our culture surveys and that process that we do Yeah. We're inviting people to come in and bring us those ideas. Like so they're coming in, and we're expecting them to give us information.

Right? Like, we want that. And so I think creating a safe space to allow them to do that gives them the

courage to create a space Sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Is all of it helpful? And then how do you as a leader redirect to help create

Oh, that's a really that's a really good question. So I am a big believer that everyone's feelings are valid regardless. Right? So if someone feels something or if they've got an opinion about something, whatever in their experiences that they've had inside the workforce, they're valid. So we help really dissect what they're trying to say and say, hey.

Is there a solution to this? And if it's something where they're just trying to nitpick and or create drama, then it's then it's easy to kind of put

a kibosh to some of those things. But, ultimately, I always try to remind myself is that someone's got

an opinion about something because they have struggled with something or they've gone through an experience at work that allows them to have that feeling and be valid. So, it's an interesting dynamic when we sit through and create what are the actions now that we're gonna do to fix those pieces of culture. Yeah. But still giving everyone the amount of courage and safe space to speak on regardless. Like, that's the reason why we do that.

Does well placed courage create drama, Tim?

Well, it can. You're dealing with humans. They're they're very complex and unpredictable. Alright. You're laughing like that's I know.

It I mean, I'm serious because you can some people and this is what is the beauty and the burden of humanity. Is that we come in all flavors

Yeah.

And all temperatures at any given time. It's a courageous act to ask for feedback

Yeah.

As a company.

And it can be delivered differently is what we're saying.

I applaud you, by the way. It took courage because you and Mike basically said, hey. You know what? We've always had this process. We've always kinda set up the survey.

You dared to walk into stores that hadn't been asked that question for a long time and then and then take the answer.

Oh, yeah.

And it it also takes courage to hear it Mhmm. Unvarnished. Yes. And it also takes courage to sort through it and kinda figure out what what is, you know it's all actionable, but it's not all necessarily equally actionable. Right?

Yeah. Sure. Part of it is development and and and helping, and helping each other. So that's a what's the opposite of courage?

That's a great question. Well, most people when I asked the class, they're like, what's the opposite? And I heard legally asked. I did. I said, what's the opposite?

And they said laziness. They said cowardice. They said fear.

I would say fear.

Yeah? Mhmm. It's actually worse than that. Passive aggressive. It's indifference.

Oh. The opposite of courage and worse than cowardice

Yeah.

Is when we don't care. When we stop trying.

Yeah.

Right? And and I told the class, and I'll say it here, I have to admit, I've let myself get there on things that are important to me. Right? Missions that are important to me. I just I'm overwhelmed.

I'm burdened. I'm upset. I'm tired. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired, and I just say forget it. And I make something that is really important not mean anything to me.

Indifference, it don't make a difference to me. Right? And that's the opposite of courage.

I love that, by the way, because we see that. You know what? You can attempt to have courage over and over and over again, and if you're not met by a reaction, that can sometimes lead to indifference. Because you don't think

to

make a difference. Right, Pat? So if I'm in a place of emotional indifference to and we're getting deep there. Deep. Oh, there's been 4 years.

Come in

to Yeah.

Yeah. Become indifferent, and I know I need to exhibit courage as a leader, how do I get myself back from indifference?

That's a concern.

Yeah.

One of the points I made today was connect, don't constrict. When I wanna give in and go into my cave of I don't care, that's not the time to constrict, to get smaller. That's the time to reach out and connect. That's the time to make connections, to reach out to administrators, to connect. Don't constrict.

Right? Reach out. Connect. Carries in. There you go.

That's it. And so as as leaders, it's a lonely job. And we're so used to having to try to have the answers that a lot of times, we just go into a cave.

Yeah.

And the truth is, we all need somebody. And actually, courage is contagious. So if I go to people who are courageous in the moment, I'm ready to shut down. I can borrow from yours. I can borrow from Mariah's, and I can get my groove back just through connecting.

It's a beautiful thing that happens with humans when we take that small step of just connecting instead of shrinking.

I love that. Araya, you I so I'm gonna have her cheer for a minute to bring up something that tell us about the group you meet.

For which one? For women.

For women. For women. For women. For women.

Yeah. Okay. So we just actually, over the last 6 months, started a new leadership group inside Ziegler Auto Group called Women Leaders of the ZAG. And this was something that I had had on my heart for a while to create a space for the females of the organization to come together and learn from each other. Conversations are just a little bit different and be able to connect that way.

When Tim says connect, don't constrict Yeah. I wonder if sometimes, you know, you you've made us aware of some of the differences and challenges. Are there situations where women in our automotive industry might constrict, might kind of give up their voice, maybe become indifferent because they're not heard in the same way? Yeah. Do you see that?

How would this No. But not even you know, I don't even wanna put, you know, a label on women. I think it's anyone and everyone. Right? Like, I think anyone in the organization, and we talked about a couple of examples today where people might see see an idea to fix a process and make it a little bit more streamlined.

Yeah. But because it's always the way that it's been

Right. Yep.

People are afraid or don't have the courage to speak up to say, hey. This could be different. Yeah. And so I think we see that all the time to to build that courage up to to jump in and say, hey. I've got something different.

Let's do it this way. Let's try it out. And that's a risk.

So the members of your group, if they feel that need to constrict, what would you tell them?

So connect. So I

said, yeah. Take advantage.

You know? And I think constricting, it

comes from a moment of fear. Right? Yeah. And a and a and a and a moment of deface. Right?

Well, it's protection.

Yeah. Protection. Protective.

What would you tell your wife? Well, I think in just connecting exactly what Tim is saying, I think when you get to the point of feeling indifferent about things, instead of, like, cowering back and saying, oh, I can't change this or

I can't do this, I would encourage people to start connecting with others around you to say, hey. Like, what does what does this look like? How do you feel about this? How can I how can

I feed off some of the energy that you can give me to go give some courage to make a change somewhere? That's right. Yeah.

We call it small as all.

Wait. What does that mean? What does small as all mean?

Man, I need to be courageous. I just need to think of what I can do on the micro level to be courageous. Right? Yeah. Instead of sending that team's message Yeah.

I might get up and walks to talk to the person so I get some understanding. Right? Like, sometimes it's just a small ad and what we do in the small scale sets the stage for the whole thing. So if we can get people doing small courageous acts, we're not acting anymore. It's a part of our culture, isn't we all?

We just are courageous as a team because we do it in the small.

Which related it to exercise today and calling progressive overload. So, you know, if someone's got a goal that they wanna lose a £100, right, that's a pretty big goal. And so what do you do? You start small. You start with those small things.

It's the same exact thing in concept to courage. Like, when you are working at those small pieces of courage to help get to the bigger bigger courage is that's that's the concept.

Small is all. And it's amazing in the class. When I ask people to list small acts of courage that they've done in the workplace, somehow we had a room full of responses. So it's not that we don't know how to do courage. What we gotta do and what I hope this class has done and is doing is helping people access it more consistently.

Yeah. Because we all have had courageous moments where we did step up, and we know how that feels.

So can I give you some concrete examples? So I was at the room. Thank you for allowing me to be there for a little bit, and I had the sticky note. We all wrote something down.

Yeah.

What's an example of courage? I wrote down, and I think Orion and I actually had a similar one. Right? It's like change. Right?

So when something's just been done the same way forever, like, it's tough to change sometimes. It's risk. They gotta get everybody on board with the vision, whatever. At my table was a an assistant, service writer at the board, and he said, hey. My moment of courage needs to be, he hadn't done that yet, finding ways to connect with customers to speak up and speak out on behalf of customers.

And I sat thought about that. I'm like, that's cool.

Yeah. It is.

Because a, that's to us might seem easy. Yeah. To him, it's terrifying because he's newer. Right. Everybody at the team kinda gathered around him and said it's newer.

I love that you had everybody say a thing because then after they said that thing, everybody kinda gathered around and gave him support.

Yeah.

And I don't know if he went back and did it. I mean, we'll know after today, I guess. But that one little thing delivers on our mission state, the ultimate automobile experience. Alright. Do you see anything at your table?

Yeah. Oh, gosh. There was there was some, some funny ones, but a lot of the ones that we talked about had something to do with the idea of change where, like, someone had seen a process look some way, and they felt like they were having a hard time finding the courage to speak up to challenge that. Yeah. So little things like that, you know, just in processes, I think.

Sometimes courage is saying it and then getting shot down and still continuing to have courage. Right? Because you're not courage is not always gonna be met successfully. Yeah.

Oh, no. Is it? No. No. No.

Not every chance is gonna work out the way you imagine. No. And that's and and that's important and there's real feelings around it, but that ain't the point. Yeah. The point is were you courageous?

Yeah. Alright. So if I'm listening to this podcast Yes. And I'm hearing, like, courage, I get it. Taking the risk, I get it.

Doing something that I know I should do or could do or need to do, taking that small step. What advice would you give to people listening across the Zuglow Auto Group? Do you have, like, some sort of a courage assessment? Like, what what's the thing that I could rally myself to do to get myself up and excited about it? And then, here's the challenge.

We wanna hear. So email us at the podcast and tell us what you've done that took courage and what was the ripple in the pond that it created. So give us some steps.

You had us remind ourselves what were the things that our talents and or our lived experiences help us find courage.

That's it.

We understand. You know, so I said positivity. I'm a positive person. I'm always looking for glass half full. I'm also resilient.

I feel like I use a lot of my lived experiences, whether it was trauma or whatever it was, right, to know,

oh, hey. I got through that thing.

I'm more resilient, and now I can get through this next thing, which is taking the courage to do x y z. Right? So those having us do that exercise where we're defining what were the talents that we have that help us become courageous and or lived experiences.

So step on could be taking a personal interview. And if you don't know that thing yourself, when you did that exercise at the table, people were asking each other, what do you feel like gives me the courage? Yeah. Do that tough thing. Right?

What's your thing?

Oh, I've got a few of them. I think I think resilience is one of them. Right? That idea that we can keep coming and get through. There's just something about me.

Yeah. And

it comes both from my family. I grew up in a family of 6. Right? And then there's other things about my past that have said, hey, you're gonna get knocked down. You're not gonna feel so great, but march on.

Mhmm. Right? And so that's when you ask me about steps, it's really about who am I and what is needed? What am I bringing and what do we need?

And then you just gotta take the action. Right?

The the next small, right, splice again, we're not trying to boil the ocean. What we're trying to do is get closer to courage. Yeah. One step, one move at a time.

So I think a culture can help celebrate. Now I'm gonna give you the answer for mine. I think one of mine optimism, I think it's

oh, yeah. I have some

think a little bit and and not in a religious sense, but faith that always at the end of the challenge is potential for something.

Yeah. That's right.

Like, I don't know why it is. I have this bizarre optimism that it's always gonna be okay to end. Yeah. Even though in the deepest darkest moments, it's not. Right?

And I don't know why that is, but I'm grateful for that. So teams have culture then celebrate courage. And I think at the Zigler Auto Group, we do that. I think about being on calls where someone says something. I think, and and others rally to that person behind the scenes to say, hey.

Great job. That was an incredible comment. Thank you for saying that and doing that. What role does culture have in supporting courage and helping to develop? Because courage is a muscle after all.

Right? Like in something you've got to continually exercise, otherwise, it dies and goes away in indifference. Right? What role does culture have?

Do you wanna talk about that? Yeah. I know. I Well, because I think for me, courage is at the center of culture, because cult I mean, courage is connected to culture. Yeah.

Right? That if people are afraid to lift up a different idea without fear of retribution, that's your culture. Mhmm. Right?

If people are afraid to lift up a different idea. Different idea.

Yeah. That's your culture. It's a fear based culture. Whether you talked about courage or not, it is your culture. And so but if on the other side, if there is space for people to bring up an idea, give feedback, receive feedback, we got channels for all of this without the words Being killed by.

Without the retribution. Right? Then that's your culture. Pickering.

Can I give you another benefit? I think as I just connecting this in my head. I think at our auto group, there is a quick connection between an idea and execution. Is there is there a nexus between saying something and doing something in a culture of courage? Because there are cultures where people will talk all the time and nobody will ever execute.

It seems to me there's some sort of a connection between execution and courage.

Right? Depends on the situation. Okay. Depends on the stakes. Right?

Now, I think it's a every situation kind of thing. I don't think there's a, one size fits all. But there is a one step takes all, and just that's the next right one. Right? Whatever that small, next courageous step works.

Yeah. In that situation.

Yeah. Yeah. So, Araya, what have you seen examples of teams celebrating courage within our culture?

Oh, yeah. A 100%. I mean, even just going back to the culture surveys. Right? When we come to the end and we create action items Yeah.

And then to see them executed, like, after a few months, we can check-in just to see, hey. How's the store doing? What are

the process that they ask?

You know, we do I mean, a lot of it is just by conversation and, like, spending time in the store, and you can you can see those changes happening, which is really cool. So it's not even like we need to do another reassessment. It's just you just see the change. And so for people to be courageous to speak up about making that change and then seeing it executed, You definitely feel that. And that's that's the whole part of doing those cultures.

So someone at my table today said, courage for me is taking criticism. And I think about Oh, yeah. In a culture survey, a GM, and we had GMs that have had brutal surveys. Yeah. And they've been humble enough, and they've had courage enough to take on that.

All of us have to have it.

Oh, yeah. That's

it you have to have it. You have to to grow. If you don't, in this environment, you go backwards. There's no stand still. Right?

Not only, is the environment we're working in change, the way people feel about that is changed. Right? And so that that being able to courageously open those environments for people to bring their gifts, bring the genius, bring the ideas, that is a courageous act that if the organization is thinking about it, leaders are thinking about it. Yeah. The change can happen.

So as we near wrapping here, last couple of questions, I always like to step back and ask this question. We're an auto group. We sell cars, 4000 cars a month ish. We service a heck of a lot of cars. Why on earth is an auto group sitting around taking time out of car sales and service people's day to talk about courage?

I mean, that's insane. Right? Why?

Well, I would I would argue it's insane not to.

Yeah. Yeah?

But most auto groups don't. To those that are listening to this

Yeah.

It this is probably a a drink a fresh breath of fresh air because a lot of places kind of ignore this. It feels weird.

I would encourage them to take the courageous step and start running. Right? Because let me ask you this. What what role is fear and indifference playing on your bottom line? Yeah.

How much time are you spending on the fruits of that? Right? How much do we miss not getting people's ideas and genius? Right? I would just ask some other some follow-up questions.

I hear you that the 2 hours you spend on a courage class has cost you.

Yeah. You're right. Some of that car. You're not servicing that car.

How many hours you spend on a year dealing with when there is a courage? It's much more than those 2 hours. I can guarantee it.

Yeah. Right. So on that note, how do people reach out to you if and we have you to ourselves in the auto space. So no fair compensation. They can't touch you.

I'm kidding. They're right.

That ain't right, Sam. That ain't right. But how do they get a voice? So translatorscg.com, and on Instagram, translatorscg. And we're just we're reaching out to folks, and we're engaging with groups about these topics.

Yeah. The topics that are taboo, but are important. Courage, resilience, communication, conflict, the things that really move our business, but we don't talk about it.

It sure makes you fake, And I love being in a room with other teammates of all different roles. I mean, we have today, we had GMs, we had sales managers, we had porters, we had like, everybody's there putting this together. It shows a certain amount of humility that, you know, you don't have a GM saying, well, I'm not gonna waste my time. That. Or Oh, no.

Or a salesperson saying, hey. You know what? I sell 98 cars a month. I don't need this. Like, we all come together in that locker room and we learn together, and there's just something pretty pretty cool about that.

Yeah. Thank you. So last this month, you're doing courage. Last go around, we had you here. Resilience.

Resilience. It was resilience. Yeah.

Yeah. What's what's up next?

Well, we're figuring that out now because we got you all are doing some cool things with culture into the new year. And so my work will be to really support and double down

Okay.

Through learning on the concepts you all are gonna be launching at the end.

Not such a like, do you have any, like, any any hook, Aria? Any, anything?

You know, it's gonna it's gonna be surrounding probably some vision and goal setting, having a vision for the year, different things like that. So that's, 2025. We're gonna have the courage to make a choice to, step

up in new and bigger ways. So yeah. It's gonna be fun.

Well, we appreciate you being here. We appreciate you being on the podcast. Heck a lot of fun, Araya. I get the last words.

Oh, man. I'm gonna just I'm gonna repeat what I literally just said. Courage is a choice. Courage is a daily choice. You get to choose to show up courageously every single day and share that with others, so it's contagious.

So I'd encourage team Ziegler and everyone else listening, share that courage with others.

Well said. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you, Tim.

Thank you.

Thanks to all who participated in this week's podcast. Until next week, remember, you are the future of ZAG today.