137: Alpha Gal Syndrome - the "Meat Allergy"

Tracy Stuckrath [00:00:06]:
Welcome to the catering at a meeting podcast. I'm your host, Tracy Stuckraff, dietary needs expert, certified meetings manager, certified food protection manager. I have searched the globe to find people and businesses who are creating safe, sustainable, and inclusive food and beverage experiences for their employees, guests, and communities. In each episode, you will find authentic conversations about how food and beverage impacts inclusion, sustainability, culture, community, health, and wellness. I know that sounds like a lot, but we're gonna cover it all. Are you ready to feed engagement, nourish inclusion, and bolster your bottom line? If so, let's go. This is food allergy awareness week, and I am going live every single day interviewing different experts in different facets of food allergies so that we can understand where our attendees are coming from and how we can produce better events with and feed those people at our events and and actually understand our own lives because I'm sure that there there are 32,000,000 Americans with food allergies. And so I'm sure that you have somebody that you know who has a food allergy.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:01:17]:
Today's guest is, Amanda Warren, and she is a holistic practice practicer, a nurse she's nurse centered. She's a mom. She's a wife. She's a school nutrition director. She's an educator, and she's an alpha gal survivor and thriver. And so welcome to the show, Amanda.

Amanda Warren [00:01:36]:
Hi, Tracy. Thanks for having me.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:01:38]:
So I found you in the article on in what was that? Food Service Magazine. Right? Food Management Magazine. Food Management. You wrote a couple of months ago about having the alpha gal syndrome and what that means for food service providers. But before we get into what we can do, will you explain to people what Alpha Gal is? And and actually, before you do that, I do wanna make a disclaimer here is that for for everybody listening, neither Amanda nor I are doctors. Amanda is a food service professional as well as someone who has alpha gal. So she's talking from personal experience and then I'm just asking her questions based on that. So anyway, so back to that question.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:02:21]:
What is alpha gal syndrome and how did you find out

Amanda Warren [00:02:24]:
you had it? Right? So Alpha gal Syndrome is it's complex, but I'll just start by saying that it's a tick borne condition and so you get bit by a tick and this tick bite produces of an immune response. If you are you know affected by the Alpha gal that the tick is carrying and what that creates as far as an immune response is a is a spectrum of symptoms and these symptoms vary from person to person, but it can range anywhere from gastrointestinal, you know distress and it can be only that or it can be combined with other symptoms like hives and rashes, flushing fatigue joint pain. All of these can mimic you know, other conditions that, you know, we most often encounter like flus and other kinds of viruses and things like that. And so the misdiagnosis around this is frequent.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:03:17]:
Okay. And how did you find it? Find out that you figured it, figure out that this is what it was?

Amanda Warren [00:03:22]:
Well, I'm from the South and so ticks are endemic in the South and I'd heard of the red meat allergy in, you know, a distant passing and had been bitten by a tick actually in 2019 on my back and then got another tick bite last May and that tick bite as well as the other one both became inflamed. I had cellulitis had to do antibiotic treatments. And steroids and things along that line and then I would say within 2 weeks of the initial the or the tick bite the most recent tick bite I started having a myriad of symptoms rashes swelling hives meetings kosher gastrointestinal kind of things going on random like body itching like from the inside out, you know where oh wow just could not figure out what was going on and it just so happened that it was a summer afternoon and my husband wanted to grill hamburgers and I don't eat red meat very often like maybe once or twice a year and so I can clearly hear myself saying to him. Oh, yeah, you know, I think I'll have a hamburger. I haven't had a hamburger in like a year and so I eat a hamburger and it's around 5 6 o'clock you know, dinner time and around 9 o'clock. You know we sit down to do TV time and I get that all of a sudden this horrible itching the bottoms of my feet, the palms of my hand, the top of my head, my wrist start breaking out with like welts. And I just looked at him and I said, I think I might have that weird tick thing, that red meat allergy. He's like, what? And so I just started Googling it real quick and, yeah, like the list of symptoms I could just check, check, check, check.

Amanda Warren [00:05:00]:
And I was like, yeah, like I really think I have this. And so I was actually waiting for an appointment with the allergist because I'd been seen at a primary care office for anaphylaxis. Did not know why I was having all these reactions and I'd been to her prior for some other random rashes and things like that and you know, she'd said something's going on. We need to get you into an allergist so in the midst of me waiting for this allergist appointment, I took red meat out. I was like, okay. I'm I'm fine. I'm safe. You know, I'll just take red meat out and of course, you know we've been conditioned by the food industry that pork is the other white meat.

Amanda Warren [00:05:37]:
And so a few weeks catering consumed pork and had the exact same reaction that I'd had with the the hamburger and then did another deeper dive and was like, oh yeah, this is not a red meat allergy. This is a mammalian meat allergy. And I think that that, that terminology is, you know, it's harmful to the, to the AG community because it, it lends to a lack of understanding around this

Tracy Stuckrath [00:06:04]:
allergy. Well, and mammalian meat means buffalo, beef, pork, otter. I don't know why that just came into my mouth into my brain, but, you know, squirrel, deer. Yep. Okay. So events. So but it doesn't include fish and shellfish, and it doesn't include poultry, which is chicken and and fowl and things like that. Right?

Amanda Warren [00:06:25]:
Right. Right.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:06:26]:
So but that and and I was reading an article by doctor Scott Commins, an MD who's at the University of Chapel Hill. And even to add to your, hey. I'm not eating red meat, but I'm going on with my life. He he it says here that since it was first diagnosed or first heard of back in where did it go?

Amanda Warren [00:06:49]:
In the last 17 years 2009, I think it was.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:06:52]:
2009. So it says it can produce isolated gastrointestinal symptoms. Reactions have report been reported from heart valves, and that comes from surgery surgeons using pigskin in their surgeries. My both of my parents have it, have pigskin in their bodies. It can come from medications because we're using mammalian type products from in that fumes from cooking the meat because the proteins are getting in the air, and then other mammal derived in ingredients, which would be and I think you have these symptoms food. It's like you can't have the dairy. Right? And what other things else have you eliminated from your diet? Right.

Amanda Warren [00:07:33]:
So, yeah, I was diagnosed with a class 5 dairy allergy, which shocked me because even after taking out all of the, you know, the mammalian products, I didn't even consider dairy, but I was still sick. I was still finding myself frequently with flu like symptoms. The main like the facial swelling and the rashes and the hogs had dissipated, but I was having a lot of GI issues and a lot of joint pain and things along that line. So yes, dairy definitely is something that I cannot have but also unbeknownst to me and a part of this syndrome and a part of the foods that should be maybe considered when you're when you're eliminating and thinking about still being reactive once you're being compliant with everything. And it's carrageenan. Yeah. Carrageenan. It's a red algae, but it does contain the alpha gal epitope.

Amanda Warren [00:08:24]:
I'm not quite sure science wise how it all works. Okay. But you can, you know, it's been documented at least anecdotally that people do react to this and I can I can say from my, you know, from my end while you know, researching and eliminating and and and working on compliance, I consumed seafood in in sushi? It was tuna and salmon and was very ill about 4 hours afterwards and like vomiting flushing feeling light headed and sick and so I am you know, II kinda get pass my tears and all this and start googling. Do they put dairy and sushi because I couldn't even figure out why this would have made me so sick and it led me to the discovery of and being a part of this syndrome and then I've discovered that the almond milk that I've been using as a substitute, for dairy alternative also did contain care and it was on the label. I just didn't know that that was part of it and so that was also continuing my symptoms.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:09:27]:
Wow. I mean, it's it's mind blowing because, okay, there's a couple of things that I want to digest pull from all of that. So one typical I'm and I'm going to put typical in quotation marks. An allergy reaction happens within 2 minutes to 2 hours. Right. But you and a friend of mine who has this as well says your reactions are 4 hours later.

Amanda Warren [00:09:47]:
Yeah. So that's the kosher that's harder. Yeah. It's like it's the anomaly around this food allergy is that it has a latent reaction time and it can actually be anywhere from 3 to 10 hours. Wow. And so it's really difficult to connect back to the food. You know, most people assume that if they're gonna get sick from a food, either from, you know, a foodborne illness or from an an allergy reaction, that it'll be fairly immediate, but it's not

Tracy Stuckrath [00:10:14]:
wow. Yeah. I mean because and then you might think that you have food poisoning from right and not an allergy right exactly and and a lot of people disease. They just think it's an intolerance or anything as well anyways, which

Amanda Warren [00:10:27]:
right

Tracy Stuckrath [00:10:27]:
is you know is something to think about up at first, but then when it continues to happen constantly.

Amanda Warren [00:10:34]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think you know as human meetings, we love to attribute. You know we love to put things in boxes and I was definitely working through all that in my brain while these symptoms were emerging and and I was dealing with all of this. I've I I was thinking things like, well, the stress of the pandemic and COVID has finally just sent me off the deep end and my body's just falling apart. I was getting ready to turn 50, so I thought all the ace and pains were you know, just getting old and I was like well, this is it. This is what 50 is like great and then you know I've had seasonal allergies and I've had you know allergies my whole life.

Amanda Warren [00:11:09]:
I have like a latex allergy just dermal and I have allergies to some metals so I kept thinking it was like I would just throw out a product. I'm like, oh, it must I guess I'm getting this rash because of this or this or this and but then the yeah, the hamburger night really like, put it all together. I I made a linear connection and was like, okay. This is what this is.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:11:30]:
Well and especially since you hadn't meetings eaten it, so it made it a lot more obvious. Right.

Amanda Warren [00:11:34]:
It made it obvious for

Tracy Stuckrath [00:11:35]:
me. Yeah. Yeah. Now okay. So and you only got diagnosed with this last October. Is that right?

Amanda Warren [00:11:42]:
Well, my appointment was in November, and I got the diagnosis of the 1st week of December.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:11:48]:
Okay.

Amanda Warren [00:11:49]:
And I'm self diagnosed in October. Okay. Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:11:52]:
And so when they when they diagnosed with you this with you, and I'm just kind of prefacing or whatever it would be from the last two previous shows, what did they tell you that and what then what happens? What do do they give you information on it? Do what do they do?

Amanda Warren [00:12:09]:
So I would yeah. I I mean, I would say that the aftercare around this was definitely lacking and that's not to, you know, not to slight anyone. I was told, oh, hey. Yeah. You were right. You knew this. Right? You have this. And I was like, okay, great.

Amanda Warren [00:12:22]:
And also you have a dairy allergy and here's your paperwork, avoid all of this stuff. And that was kind of the end. And so all of the following stuff was me just researching and researching and connecting to other support, Facebook support groups where I found a lot of information. I didn't know that you know histamine could go out of whack from this and I had an again an issue where I was thought I was being very compliant and doing all the right things and ended up with a terrible flushing and breaking out down my face and neck that evening and I just went on to wanna support groups and I was like what am I doing wrong? I'm doing everything right. I'm reading labels. I'm eating whole foods and then someone explained that the histamine bucket can fill up and I had a very high histamine day. And eat made myself a seafood stew so seafood tomatoes, paprika halal the spices had some black tea and you know things like that. So I was able to sort of come around to that and figure all that out too.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:13:24]:
So that's a whole another level of managing your diet.

Amanda Warren [00:13:27]:
Yes. Right? Yes.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:13:28]:
And figuring that out. So Mhmm. Okay. And then now you're you and not now, but you are a school nutrition the director of school nutrition. Right?

Amanda Warren [00:13:38]:
Right. Mhmm. Right?

Tracy Stuckrath [00:13:40]:
Yes. So you're responsible for designing the food menus for couple and kids.

Amanda Warren [00:13:46]:
Yes. A couple and kids.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:13:48]:
Yep. In Virginia. So how did that impact well, I wanna know how it impacted your life besides just the general thing, but how did it impact your job?

Amanda Warren [00:13:57]:
Yeah. So professionally, you know, this was definitely a challenge, but it also broadened, you know, I think my knowledge around food allergies and also my empathy around food allergies. I've always, you know, we've always been really careful to accommodate children with food allergies and worked closely with parents sometimes to create specific menus for our kids, but it opened my eyes to you know this just the difficulties and the complications and also the lack of knowledge of the lack of empathy and understanding around food allergies. So that was that was a good part and so instead of just doing management training around food allergies, we're gonna do a school department wide or school nutrition department wide certified allergy training this coming fall. So I'm happy that we're you know that we're moving in that direction and and you know, meetings out food. I think so that other people will follow that are in the school nutrition industry

Tracy Stuckrath [00:14:52]:
Mhmm.

Amanda Warren [00:14:52]:
And and then I would say that, you know, the downside is that I do have the some airborne reactivity when particles the, you know, the the lipid molecules are in the air. They land on things they get in your nose, whatever, and I do have practices creative ways to to continue to professionally develop, you know, my my staff while, being mindful of of of my limitations and and the condition that that I now have.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:15:34]:
Well yeah. And and we talked about it before we came on, you know, could you wear a mask? Could you wear gloves? And and you were wearing gloves in the most recent incident, but you weren't wearing a mask. So that could potentially be something to help you do that, but Right. We never know.

Amanda Warren [00:15:50]:
Right. And and, I certainly will will will try it. And like I told you before, you know, I just I have a little resistance to it at at this point just because I'm stubborn, and and it makes me angry that I can't do the work the way, you know, that I've that I've always done the work, but I I will I will try it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:16:07]:
Yeah. Well and I think that says something about employment. Right? And I when we chatted, what, a month ago, right Mhmm. Before this, we were talking about you going to a conference. And and can you tell people I I did I really love the fact love what your comp what your school system did for you to help accommodate you while you're traveling, but can you tell people about that Mhmm. All of that combined? Sure.

Amanda Warren [00:16:35]:
Yeah. So that was my first experience actually, you know, getting back out into the world and I think it's important also to to just note that when I was diagnosed, we were still in the middle of a basic shutdown, you know, because of because of COVID and the pandemic. And so I had not been going out to eat. I had not been going to meetings in person. I had not been attending conferences. So this was my first experience kind of reemerging into the world with a brand new condition and food allergy that I'd never had to manage before. But the support from the school side is was great. You know they know what's going on with me and they understand it and so they were super supportive in allowing the entire compensation events though meals were provided, which normally if meals are provided, you know, they don't offer you that compensation, but they knew that I was gonna have to buy and prepare my own food.

Amanda Warren [00:17:27]:
Right. And so when, when I attended the conference, I had originally, you know, added into the registration that I had alpha gal allergy and was considering maybe trying to see if a chef could accommodate, but I was really nervous around that, you know, because I had only trusted myself to prepare my food and occasionally my husband to prepare my food. And so it was, it was hard to think about letting control of that. And, it was a very, very busy conference. It was short staffed

Tracy Stuckrath [00:17:58]:
and I had asked Pandemic.

Amanda Warren [00:18:01]:
Pandemic, yeah. Right. And so I'd asked the, the, a close friend of mine that was directing the conference, do you think I should have this meal? And she said, no, no, they're, they're too busy. And I'm afraid that, that things will fall apart and they won't get you right. So I ended up, you know, eating lots of fresh fruit that I brought with me and a couple bags of Lay's here and there, but yeah, it was, it was difficult because normally, you know, those networking times are around those meals and because there, you know, there were mammalian products being served, I didn't go down for the meal service just because I don't didn't know what my reactivity might be in the presence of of of those meals. It's challenging.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:18:43]:
It is challenging. And then also thinking about it, it is like preparing your own meals and granted you you had potato chips and apples or fresh fruit, but Mhmm. You know, that might also mean considering a different hotel to stay and. So that might have a kitchen. Right?

Amanda Warren [00:18:59]:
That you

Tracy Stuckrath [00:18:59]:
could prepare your own food and which then means you have to rent a car potentially or, you know, those other as as Ruth said yesterday, kind of putting on your armor. You know, what do I have to do to take care of myself when I'm traveling? Right? Right. Mhmm. And and that would be part of that. Those extra steps that you have to take.

Amanda Warren [00:19:18]:
Yeah. There's lots of extra considerations, and and and then then that adds, you know, expense too. And so that can that can be problematic if the budget isn't there for those extra expenses. Right.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:19:29]:
Exactly. So and I know you and your husband used to travel and go out to eat and find new places. And so that's probably impacted a lot of that as well food. Right?

Amanda Warren [00:19:40]:
Oh, for sure. Yeah. I mean, we are both food. We we, you know, cut our teeth in in the food industry and restaurant business. And he's he's a great he's a great cook too. And so we love to cook together, and we used to love to go out to eat together. Although most of the time we were a little disappointed because we think we can do it better every time. But yeah, so recently, you know, we went downtown food, to downtown Charlottesville, which is a town about 45 minutes from where we live in a beautiful little eclectic town and lots of eateries in the downtown section and one of the things, you know, that we would have liked to do in the past was dip in and out, you know, and, you know, try an appetizer here and well, let's go try, you know, this here and so walking through that downtown area that night was, you know, it definitely left a hole because that just wasn't a part of what we were gonna do anymore.

Amanda Warren [00:20:29]:
And so we, you know, we found some other things to do. We ducked into a few little shops here and there, but I felt that, you know, I felt that and of that missing that missing piece.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:20:40]:
Oh, I can imagine because food is very much part of our lives no matter where you are, whether you're in school or work or, you know, just in your daily lives. I mean, we all have to eat. But it and but so now let's jump into, you know, your food service director and you but you're reading halal. And how hard because mammal meat mammalian is not required by the Food Allergy Labeling and Consumer Protection Act to be labeled on food. So how how do you manage that, and what are the words that you look for?

Amanda Warren [00:21:12]:
Mhmm. Are are are you asking how I manage that independently for myself? Or

Tracy Stuckrath [00:21:17]:
Oh, I mean, I think you've learned independently for yourself, but also in the school system. And and I think coming from the context that you are in food service, you're a chef, so you know how to cook. So how does an and layman person who doesn't who's not a chef, you know, understand how to find that? Does that make sense?

Amanda Warren [00:21:35]:
Yeah. That makes sense. So, I mean, I think some of the key terms are if you're dealing with alpha gal allergy, that if it says natural flavors, you avoid it because natural flavors can hide mammalian byproducts. If it contains things like magnesium stearate or, or glycerin, all of that can be animal derived and unless you contact the manufacturer directly to find out, you know, what the derivative is, you don't know. And so you just need to be mindful of that. Of course, looking for and for things that say, you know, color added because you just don't necessarily know if that color added is coming from a red allergies. And, you know, when, when I'm purchasing chicken, I'm looking for animal byproduct free dietary fed, you know, things along that lines. As far as, you know, kosher, other problematic ingredients, I think that, that that is the challenge because mammal byproducts had under a multitude of needs.

Amanda Warren [00:22:36]:
And there are lists out there that you can look at, but they're not comprehensive. I do know that there's a, an, an, and, you know, a new, app called Fig and Fig does have the, alpha gal allergy in the program. And so you can use that to sort of scan and and find these these problematic ingredients. Okay. Which is very helpful.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:23:00]:
Right. Yeah. Definitely. And, oh, you said something in there. The because you you don't I mean, some of those words you can't pronounce. Right? And and we don't know what they are. Oh, I know what it was. Is so can you do you trust something that has been certified vegan? No.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:23:18]:
Because Why is that?

Amanda Warren [00:23:19]:
Well, because certified vegan can still contain carrageenan because carrageenan is a plant based product. Oh, wow. So, yeah. So if carrageenan is problematic for you, you know, you would, you would want to make sure that you read the label and it's food to see on a lot of beverages now a lot of you know dairy alternatives you'll you'll see care gain and free and so a lot of people are moving in that direction. And I think the the cornucopia Institute is an organization that is working toward toward removing carrageenan from organic products specifically because that's their niche. But if we can get movement in the organic industry, then it can trickle down to other industries. And so I think that's really, really important.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:24:05]:
Well, no. That's a really, I mean, interesting fact because you would think, you know, I'm going to I'm gonna have something that's certified vegan and and but there are some plant based part specifically the one plant based product. So you eat very whole food related.

Amanda Warren [00:24:21]:
I

Tracy Stuckrath [00:24:22]:
do. Yep. So one of my rules is if it's prepackaged, I don't even have anything prepackaged here. Here's some of, purely Elizabeth's stuff. So this has actually got more than 5 ingredients in it, but I know what they are. Right. You know? But I typically, like you, follow like, try to do 5 ingredients or less.

Amanda Warren [00:24:43]:
Right. Is that right? Yeah. That's typically my rule. Now, again, like you said, if if that's if if it's a whole package product sort of a whole foods, you know, that's packaged and you can identify each ingredient and each ingredient is safe, pure, whatever, then, you know, I would say go for it. Yeah. But if you know, that ingredient label contains, you know, a list of of of ingredients that are not recognizable, it is just not worth it. It's not worth it for your health to to risk it. And we know that, you know, a whole apple or or a whole, you know, potato, like if if it's prepared correctly, you know, with allergen free, it's not gonna be harmful to you.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:25:23]:
Right. So well, and that's a good thing. The now, as a food service provider, you know, and jump delving into this since December, you know, what advice do you have for others in the industry on managing this for their clients? And yeah. Yeah. So, I mean,

Amanda Warren [00:25:42]:
I think the best advice is just to arm yourself with knowledge to food you know to to to build awareness to really religious understand deeply what this allergy means to the people that are afflicted not just a base understanding and to remove assumptions around it Again, hearing red meat allergy and going, okay, I got this, you know, and then just not serving steak. I mean, cross contact is an issue for those that are dairy sensitive. You know, it's an issue and and so I think, yeah, a deep understanding first, 1st and foremost, do a deep dive, really know what you're getting into and then you have to train. You have to train, train, and retrain and it has to be consistent and it has to be, you know, continuous.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:26:25]:
Exactly. Because staff kosher turns and we get busy, we and of forget about things as well. And okay. I'm gonna jump back to your training that you're gonna do this fall. I vegan, typically and and and I'm not bashing this at all, but, you know, ServSafe covers the top 9, top 8. I don't know if they've updated food the top 9, but top 9 allergens. Are you going to I'm I'm assuming you're going to expand it to alpha gal, so that's in there. Are you going to expand it? Because and do you know how what foods that the kids in your school are allergic to outside of the top 9?

Amanda Warren [00:26:59]:
Yeah. So yeah. I mean, I receive, you know, individual health plans to review for any student that has an allergy. So I do know what we're dealing with. I have and student with alpha gal allergy that I accommodate for and we actually have another student in our system with alpha gal allergy, but we don't wanna accommodate they they've made a decision not to and perfectly understandable. But yeah, so we receive this individual health plans and I do intend to broaden our training around you know Alpha Gal because it is increasing know that we're gonna see more students. It's it's emerging and I think the more information that gets out there, the more diagnosis that we'll see and and then it's it's just important for people to understand and know how to how to accommodate and how to deal with it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:27:44]:
Yeah. My friend, Lynn, welcome to the show, Lynn. Thank you for tuning in. She says a vegan restaurant asked a rabbi to oversee the kosher to make the restaurant kosher. When the rabbi got there, he found many of the ingredients had dairy in them. And that's and there was I was talking to Ruth from the UK yesterday. I mean, a woman in the UK went into a vegan restaurant and had an anaphylactic reaction to milk. And that restaurant said, oh, well, we don't we don't confirm that all of the products that we use are vegan.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:28:15]:
I'm like, okay. You're a vegan restaurant.

Amanda Warren [00:28:17]:
Right. And so that's that's problematic food. And that's also the other the other important part of of industry is that you have an intimate knowledge of the food that you're serving. You you have got to understand, you know, those the the the the base ingredients of the main, you know, thing you have to if it contains sugar, where did the sugar come from? You know? Don't just make assumptions again around your around the food that you're serving.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:28:45]:
And that can be hard because, I mean, food allergy families are really good about calling the manufacturers, right? Yep. And catering the questions and food service providers, especially coming out of COVID. You're swamped and calling them, you know, and and I know that families get a lot of pushback food. And I use the bushes bush baked beans commercial thing like the dog has got this the secret ingredient. Right? Right. But they don't wanna give the secret ingredient away, and it's like, it's not that we want that. We would just wanna know if this is in it. Right?

Amanda Warren [00:29:17]:
Right. Right. And trade secrets, you know, that that's a part of of the the complexity around food allergies food, because they can protect some of, you know, some of their ingredients and so again, my advice is if you don't know, you don't go, you know, you just, you, you stray away from that direction, but it, it, it's the responsibility of a of a business kosher, of a of a restaurant or a food service provider to do that deep dive. I know it's harder. I know it's more complex. Hire someone specifically that's, you know, in in charge of doing just that, but it's your responsibility to your patrons, you know, to to to have that deep understanding of what you're serving. And I don't think anybody out there would feel good about knowing that, you know, something that they served or or something that happened in their establishment created illness in someone else or pain or suffering. You know we have to really consider that around other people

Tracy Stuckrath [00:30:14]:
and in the food, this is a it's a new. It's not new, but it's new to delve deeper into it right. Yes and and it does and it's harder because we are in you know I went to a convention recently and there's a lot of these vegan items that are coming up. There's a lot of long terms in there right. You can't read them and and you don't know what they are right and but we have to be forthcoming. You know, let's be transparent there you

Amanda Warren [00:30:44]:
go transparency. It's really important and also you know just I think when you're you know when you're labeling your food, you know being mindful that you're not trying to capture an audience. That's not your audience. Food instance, like you know recently I saw veggie veggie filled muffins right and it was like veggie religious or something along that line. I'm like, oh food, you know so I pull it down and it's like plant based on the front with little leaves and all that and then I flip it over and it's got dairy in it. You know, when I read the label and I'm just like, Ugh, like that's not plant based. Right. You know, so just be, you know, be mindful if, you know, if you if you want to serve a plant based muffin with dairy, dairy should be on the front of that box.

Amanda Warren [00:31:25]:
You food. You know, it should just be included. And and and again, that's just that transparency piece.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:31:30]:
Right. And I think a lot of people put it that plant based means vegetarian. Right? And because there is a big difference between vegan and dietary. Absolutely. And for everybody's clarification, vegetarian means you eat the byproducts of animals. So eggs and honey and milk. Right? But vegan, you're avoiding all of those things as well besides the animal based meats. Right? So it and and actually, that makes me it's hard to then say the definition of plant based.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:32:03]:
Right? Because everybody wants some people wanna get away from the word vegan because it's got harsh connotations to it. So they go plant based, which is great, but you also who's deciding what that means?

Amanda Warren [00:32:14]:
Who is deciding what that means? Yeah. And that's that's interesting because that that goes back to, you know, FDA and and regulations around food labels and what it needs, and it just it seems like every time a new trend emerges, a new problem emerges around that same trend with regards to food labels. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:32:34]:
And and it's a touchy subject, and and it's a hard thing to do. You know? I I mean, I just labeled food for an event 2 weeks ago and trying to make sure that everything is labeled correctly, it's it's not easy. You know? It's not. Yeah. No. Yeah. So what priorities do you think that can be have the greatest impact on alpha gal right now?

Amanda Warren [00:32:58]:
So, yeah, I mean, I think the greatest priorities right now are awareness, period, diagnosis. I think that, you know, there are lots of people out there undiagnosed and and suffering needlessly and being ill needlessly for 3 years on end. I think that I read in and article that the average time to identify that the alpha gal is 9 years. Wow. 9 years that people wait to figure out why they've been suffering, you know, the spectrum of symptoms. And also the fact that it is or can be just specific GI, issues without any of the other surrounding symptoms. And so people get placed in IBS categories or, you know, other kinds of gastrointestinal type, you know, diagnoses. And so I think diagnosis is key because the more people get diagnosed, the more resources we'll build around it.

Amanda Warren [00:33:57]:
The vegan priority obviously is the medical community. You know, getting knowledge into the medical community. Again, all the major support sites that I've, you know, been on that seems to be extremely problematic, not only with people not being diagnosed, but when they are diagnosed, not getting the treatment and the care that should be required, you know, wrapped around them and even sometimes are, you know, and of scoffed by the medical community, you know, maybe this isn't real or are you making this up or I've never heard of that or, you know, meetings along that and. And it's again, it's the responsibility of our medical community. We are their customers too and so it's the responsibility of them to be knowledgeable, but they can't, you know, they can't access knowledge if it's not there to be given. And then the the third priority I think is advocacy, activism and that all leads to, you know, food labels and government agencies coming together, and doing, you know, tick borne prevention and tick borne information. And then also, you know, allergies, food allergy information. I mean, it's big, so it's hard to, narrow down priorities, but I think diagnosis, information to the medical community, and actively changing food labels so that we can be safe.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:35:20]:
And and I love all of those because it is and it has to come from both sides. Right? Right. And I know we all get a lot of flack for going on and googling things and trying to figure out but I'm like you so you went to them and said, I think this is wrong with me. I mean, and then they confirmed it. So I think working together is really important. It is yeah.

Amanda Warren [00:35:40]:
I think yeah, I think halal always working together is really important. You know, change happens in in in in numbers. It just really does.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:35:48]:
Well and, you know, you can it it's like the plumber. Right? You you call the plumber for a problem, and when he shows up, there's nothing wrong. Right? And when you go to the doctor, the same thing can happen. And so that's where, you know, some of that misdiagnosis or things happen. And and even I was talking to a chef last week at a convention, and I said something about the alpha gal. And they're like, that's not real. You and? And I'm like, it is real. And you don't want to be that person and you don't and to be that person who won't take the time to feed

Amanda Warren [00:36:23]:
somebody. Right. Or take the time to to be knowledgeable about it right to to be close minded around something that you know people are suffering with. I think is you know again. It's it's just not responsible you know as a business owner or or a provider of services

Tracy Stuckrath [00:36:42]:
Right. Yeah. And one thing that I just it just popped into my head from our conversation prior to coming on is the fact that your school system is all scratch kitchen.

Amanda Warren [00:36:53]:
Right? Virtually.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:36:55]:
Virtually. Okay.

Amanda Warren [00:36:55]:
Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:36:56]:
Okay. Not virtually like virtually like right here, but not Right.

Amanda Warren [00:37:00]:
Almost all. Yeah. I vegan, some things, you know, some things about our program don't lend to scratch cooking food, you know, grab and go breakfasts are obviously, you know, typically prepackaged, you know, pastries, muffins, cereals, things along that line. But we do focus, our lunch meals on a scratch cook program. Right now, we have a a 2 week menu cycle and 8 of those meals on that 2 week cycle are scratch cook meals. Wow. That's awesome.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:37:25]:
Yep. Mhmm. And and that's because I did some work in Atlanta with one of the school districts, and we were working with the cafeteria cooks, you know, teaching them how to cook some new things because they don't it was coming from a commissary instead. So that is a lot of the stuff that's coming into schools is is not necessarily cooked right. Most of the stuff is not usually cooked right there.

Amanda Warren [00:37:47]:
Right. Right.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:37:48]:
Yeah.

Amanda Warren [00:37:49]:
Yeah. I mean, I think that, you know, there was a time when major equipment that lend, you know, lended itself to scratch cooking was removed from cafeterias around the, you know, around the nation. And then, those schools, you know, aren't now the infrastructure is not set up for scratch cooking, but our schools have remained intact with that equipment and while that equipment may have set for a while unused, you know, we're now bringing it all back out and we've been working on a scratch cook program for, gosh, I'm in my 7th year, so for 5 years and we've been working on, you know, introducing kids to plant based foods and to culturally responsive, you know, type type food so that we are inclusive in in in the way that we're presenting our meals because we do have a you know a broader you know base of different ethnicities and things like that in our school system and so we wanna serve foods that they recognize and it make them feel special. So all of this was happening way prior to Alpha Gal and it, but it did set me up I think to, I think to transition more easily through this and I'm also a really passionate person and I let that passion fuel me even when you know, it's something that is vexing me like Alpha gal syndrome. I find ways you know to sort of work around the parts that seem depressing or the parts that you know, make me angry or you know, make me feel frustrated and so I think you know that's that's important, but yeah, this work was happening prior to this and so it just all sort of fits together in this nice little basket.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:39:27]:
Yeah. No. That's awesome. So what does a from from both perspectives of having somebody who with alpha gal but also being in a food service position? What is a safe sustainable and inclusive food and beverage experience mean to you?

Amanda Warren [00:39:43]:
Yeah. I mean so yeah safety obviously, you know is is food safety in general, you know, making sure that you have a good asset plan in place and and not only that you have the plantbased that you're following the plan and that you have continuous training around that plan. And then again, implementing food allergy training and awareness. I think having your, you know, your menus be transparent, having ingredient lists available for your patrons to review, you know, things along that line that that that creates that that safety space. The inclusivity part is of course, you know, just making sure that people feel special and and that they feel present in in your place so that they they feel represented and what what that looks like I think is is very individualized based upon, you know, who your audience is, who your patrons are. But something that that I, you know, I love to host, you know, meals and stuff in my own personal world. And one of the things that I always try to do is fix, you know, if one of my friends say, oh my gosh, I love that dish. I fix that dish for them.

Amanda Warren [00:40:51]:
Or if I know that, you know, a friend has an allergy, I've always, here's your allergy free meal. So I think that just making people feel recognized and and thought about and and, you know, special. So that's the inclusivity part. And what was the other one, Tracy? I'm sorry.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:41:07]:
Oh, no. It's sustainable.

Amanda Warren [00:41:08]:
Oh, sustainable, yeah. You know, again, that's just looking at all of your practices from at a very deep, you know, base level and we can't do everything sustainably. It's not manageable on a financial end sometimes and just not manageable logistics wise. But I think that if you take the time to look at those pieces like how far is your food traveling? Can I get this local? Is it affordable? You know, how much plastic am I using during this function? Can I use something different? Can I use something compostable? Just, you know, just looking at every little detail of your planning and if you can't do it all at once, everybody understands that that, you know, you you maybe can't do that all at once, but pick 1 or 2 things that you can focus on that make that, you know, a sustainable sort of practice around what you're doing. Something that we started prior to COVID in my program was a plastic resolution solution and we knew because of the way we worked, you know, it's a little bit institutional type, you know, and serving that we couldn't remove all practices, but we took out practices straws and we went back to metal flatware and I bought you know magnetic traps for trash can lids so that if kids were throwing it away, we try to catch those we went from individual portion cups on fruits and things like that to open bars where kids were serving themselves. You know we just had to make sure we had that half cup fruit measurement for the USDA pattern requirements, but so it's self-service fruit. So we eliminated a lot of needs you know plantbased and we were actually ahead of the legislation that said that Styrofoam couldn't be in restaurants by 2022. I think it's the I think it's this year.

Amanda Warren [00:42:50]:
Okay.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:42:51]:
In Virginia though.

Amanda Warren [00:42:52]:
Virginia. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:42:53]:
That you have my We still have it here in my town.

Amanda Warren [00:42:56]:
So we had already taken styrofoam out because I just didn't like it as as as a, you know, as an item in our program. So there are things that even school food services can do to be sustainable. And again, I think it goes back to that responsibility piece. You know, we're educating whether we're in an operations department, a school nutrition department, or, you know, we're a teacher, we are all educating and everything that we do leads an example to our students. And so those are ways to educate. You know? I love that. I mean, be

Tracy Stuckrath [00:43:29]:
and and especially since you are in that environment. I mean but it is you whoever's hosting the vegan event or whatever, you're the one leading by example and showcasing what you can do and and being

Amanda Warren [00:43:41]:
transparent about it. Right. Yeah. Being as transparent about it as you can. And that, you know, that was that was the the the difficulty with COVID is, you know, we had to flip our entire way of service. And so one of those was creating packaged unitized needs, which require plastic. So it was, you know, really breaking my heart to have to do that, you know, but it was, it was necessary at the time and it was the most efficient way that we could continue to serve wholesome scratch meals to kids. So I'm looking forward to a new school year and a return to you know our basic operations of course, keeping everything great that we learned from kosher, you know and of the practices.

Amanda Warren [00:44:21]:
There were good things that we learned, but you know bringing back in our plant based food initiatives and our cultural, you know, sensitive foods and going back to plastic solutions and things like that in our program. I'm looking forward to a return.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:44:38]:
That's awesome. Well, you've got I I'm you've done so much in. I don't even have many 6 months right, not even 6 months of you being diagnosed with this and, you know, a little bit longer because you had self diagnosed. But thank you for that. I mean, I know it's it's for you and your family. It is more than it is for the rest of the world. But I mean, I am we're all appreciative for what you're doing both in the school system and introducing plant based, but also educating on alpha gal.

Amanda Warren [00:45:12]:
Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I think it's important and I just being in the food service industry and probably you can identify with this, Tracy, like, I think it it service service hearted people that food stay in those industries. And and so I do feel like that the work that I'm doing is is not just for me. Like I'm I'm upset for lots of people out there that are suffering that don't know where to go, that don't know how to, you know, work around these things and and that there's just a really a huge lack in information catering. And that's why that's why I'm talking. That's why I'm speaking out.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:45:47]:
Awesome. Now where can I already posted in the comments here your 2 Facebook groups, the Alpha Gal Now Facebook group and the Alpha Catering Alpha Gal Educators Facebook group? How How else can people get a hold of you or learn more about Alpha?

Amanda Warren [00:46:02]:
Well there there are lots of great resources that people can go to learn about Alpha Gal in particular Alpha Gal now is more focused on the foods and the food industry and sort of demystifying food labeling and and you know catering those conversations and alpha gal educator the focus is are you an educator with this? Are you an educator with a child with this and are you a parent with a child with this and how has it affected, you know, the education around around your events. So it's sort of a niche group and, you know, we invite anyone that's in a in a school system to to join that because we're really trying to find better resources to help people in the school system, you know, deal with this challenging thing because it's not just the food, it's classroom stuff too. It's it's it's crayons that might contain beef tallow. It's, you know, it's Oh, wow. Lots of practices. You know that we have to really be considerate of and getting those resources together and getting them to school districts so that they can best care for their events. And then I am on Instagram as alpha gal thriving and that is more of a personal account of my life. So you'll you'll see some alpha gal information, but you also get to know me better there.

Amanda Warren [00:47:15]:
Uh-huh. And then, I am on Instagram as alpha gal tips where I just sort of share some quick tips around managing and dealing with with alpha gal.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:47:26]:
Okay. I'm gonna change that to tips too. Okay. Alpha gal tips. Perfect. Got it in there. Okay. Awesome.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:47:33]:
Well, thank you, Amanda. I really appreciate you being here. This is an important learning experience for all of us on on this new emerging allergen that we're gonna see a lot more of

Amanda Warren [00:47:44]:
and We will see it. Yeah. We're gonna see a lot more of it. It's it's unfortunate, but I think, yeah, that we will see and increase before we, you know, get in front of it and sort of get a handle on it. And, Tracy, can I just say thank you too for the work that you do?

Tracy Stuckrath [00:47:59]:
Oh, thanks.

Amanda Warren [00:48:00]:
Yeah. And food, you know, highlighting all of the food allergy concerns the whole week and spotlighting alpha gal syndrome. It's really important for people in the industry to know and understand this and maybe maybe they'll go and take a deeper Google look. I hope so. Yeah. I hope so, James. Yeah. And your your work's very important, so I just wanted to to say thank you.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:48:21]:
Thank you. That needs so much. I appreciate that. Now I'm gonna cry. I mean, it is. It's it's really important. And as being as a meeting planner who has food allergies, and I've been living with them since and, it's, you know, not being able to eat at events myself. And that's that's the impetus about it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:48:37]:
And and I think this is really important. I think the way that you and I come about it, it's education. I don't want to. And somebody first told me when I started this is like, you're so passionate, you come off as defensive. And and sometimes it's hard to hold that back. Right. But I can understand. Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:48:55]:
And so and because you're like, I'm angry about this and and whatever, and I want you to and, but it's we have to take that step back, take the deep breath, and let's educate. And because you didn't go to the store and buy it, and we can't go to the store and return it.

Amanda Warren [00:49:11]:
I asked, actually, the the physician of doctor Platts Mills if they could just take it out. Can you just take alpha gal? If they put it in, can't you just take it out?

Tracy Stuckrath [00:49:20]:
The answer was probably no.

Amanda Warren [00:49:22]:
It was no. Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:49:25]:
Yeah. So thank you again. And so we're going to rock it together and I'm going to follow you on all those. I do already follow you, but I'm going to add those other Instagram and Facebook groups. So I appreciate it. So everybody, thank you for tuning in. Until next time. Stay safe and eat well.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:49:41]:
Thank you. Thanks. Thanks for listening to the Catering at a Meeting podcast where every meal matters. I'm Tracy Stuckart, your food and beverage inclusion expert. Call me and let's get started right now on creating safe and inclusive food and beverage experiences for your customers, your employees, and your communities. Share the podcast with your friends and colleagues at our Catering at a Meeting Facebook page and on all podcast platforms. To learn more about me and receive valuable information, go to tracystuckrath.com. And if you'd like more information on how to feed engagement, nourish inclusion, and bolster your bottom line, then visit eating at a meeting dot com.