Expanding Your UK Property Portfolio: Alternative Models with Alicia Barlow

I always watch when new builds get bought. You know, that company has got a better research team than I do. they've already crunched the numbers.They know where they need to be. And so I look at where the new builds are being built, and I'd go and have a look around those streets and say, Are there any potential houses on here, either that's direct to vendor through an agent or auction that I could potentially purchase for my portfolio?You're listening to expat property story, a podcast in which I share my story to smooth the way for you to your own. expat property story.Hello there. Welcome to episode 95 of expat property story. The podcast for expat investing in UK property.And this week, Alicia Barlow offers us an alternative way to invest other than your standard too up to down terrace house. Although she does that too. When the returns from standard buy to let deals in Lancashire started to look less attractive in 2020,Alicia began to look at buying Asset Bank Businesses, which is a new investment model for this podcast. So if you'd like to know more, stick around for Alicia, who will also be giving us the lowdown on which areas to look out for to benefit from the Manchester ripple.But before all of that, I'd just like to offer a friendly reminder that a new month is fast approaching, which means that our newsletter will soon be racing through wires, cables, and radio waves to hopefully land in your inbox and hopefully not in your junk folder because it's got loads of must have information around investing in UK property. If you don't receive it, it's probably because you haven't subscribed to our mailing list, which you can do right now by going to www.xpat propertystory.com.If you do this on a desktop, you just tap, not smash, just lightly tap, subscribe in the top right hand corner. But if you're on a mobile, then tap the hamburger menu.Yes. The hamburger menu. Sadly, I actually went to the trouble of looking it up, and those three lines In the top right hand corner of most websites on mobiles are called the hamburger menu because they look, well, like a hamburger. Now at www.expatpropertystory.com, we've only got two lines, but you get the picture. So, anyway,subscribe to our community and receive all the latest news about investing in UK Property. And talking of community, a quick reminder about this month's upcoming meet ups.If you're in Hong Kong, we meet at the urban bakery in the landmark building

30 AM onwards on the 1st

30at the Urban Bakery in Central. And in Dubai, Mandeep and others meet on the 1st Wednesday of each month,from 7 PM onwards at the Holiday Inn at the Science Park,and the first Wednesday in July is the 5th. And we have a new meetup to announce. It's in Singapore. Peter Sell, our guest from episode 72, has been in touch, to say that if anyone wants to talk about property in Singapore, then he and others will

30 AM at the Providor at Vivo City, on the same day as us Hong Kongers. So that's Saturday, July 1st.Alicia Barlow is a qualified, though, non practicing accountant with over 15 years experience working in corporate finance.But in July 2017, she gave up all of that to concentrate on her Bolton based buy to let business, Rose Alexander Property Limited. She is also the Manchester host of partners in property, so I thought that she would be a great person to invite on here to talk about the northwest.But before all that --There's a tyrant, property desk. There is one particular song I love, and it's that queen song that don't stop me now.It is called that, isn't it? I think it is. Yeah. I I'm not gonna sing it, but I'm it's in my head. You don't have to definitely cut that bit out. Yeah. So how does it relate to property? For me, I think it's more about the momentum side of invest and not just particularly with property, but with any type of investment, you're gonna go through ups and downs.But, ultimately, you've gotta keep pushing forward. So to me, that's probably where that would come in. That song definitely puts a spring in my step anyway. So You've probably heard the well worn advice to buy the cheapest house on the NICE Street,which is advice that today's guest has herself followed while building her portfolio in Bolton. Another good idea is to look for opportunities just outside areas of recent significant capital growth to benefit from the so called ripple effect.So I wondered if Alicia could tell us where to look in the northwest.Every town has certain streets where there is more development required, and there are sadly pockets of poverty throughout every town that I ever have invested or managed to invest in. Now the difficulty you have is in some cases there is no access to those houses. And that's why I always say. I go for the best streets, which are privately owned anyway, and I can go and buy a house that might have been on auction. or it's been owned by an elderly deer who's had it for so long and it needs a face lift. And it's not the worst as in it's a terrible set. It it just needs modernizing and bringing up to our time. And that's what that would look like. So In terms of the towns, for me, I always pinpoint good transport link whether there's any potential funding that's available whether that's through local councilor local government. And I would look then at those areas surrounding that so you get that ripple effect. Every town has certain streets where there is more development required,and there are sadly pockets of poverty throughout every town that I ever have invested or managed to invest in.Now the difficulty you have is in some cases, there is no access to those houses. And that's why I always say. I go for the best streets, which are privately owned anyway,and I can go and buy a house that might have been on auction. or it's been owned by an elderly deer who's had it for so long and it need my face lift. And it's not the worst as in it's a terrible set. It just needs modernizing and bringing up to our time, and that's what that would look like.So In terms of the towns, for me, I always pinpoint good transport link whether there's any potential funding that's available whether that's through local councils or local government. And I would look then at those areas surrounding that so you get that ripple effect. So where is the ripple effect now? What are the towns to look out for now, would you say? It's a very difficult one because I feel like Manchester's ripple effect has already seen its way through, like, to the likes of Bolton,Oldham, Rottsdale, but there's still so much development happening in the city center. that I think that ripple effect will continue, but I do think it's going to stabilize in terms of capital values. And I think in terms of time, You know, there's certain streets I invested in years ago that I know those capital values haven't moved very much because they jumped from, say, 30, 40,000 for a two three bed terrace to a 100 a 120,000. And even during the boom of 2020, 122, they

50. But then you go to other certain cities like Birmingham and London that got Crossrail and HS2, and those capital values have absolutely exploded once again through that period. And I don't think that was driven for any other reason than demand. And I think people had cash and available cash to invest, didn't want it set in the bank, and that's where they put it because they know. I mean, it is it is well qualified property is a low risk investment.You know? And and in terms of equities or any other things like Bitcoin or any other potential it was a lot safer to do that. So that kind of booming prices wasn't driven through what we would naturally see as a capital increase through inflation or over time.It actually happened because there was more money in the system. More money than we've ever seen before, I think, in terms of canceling produces, the areas that I invest, which are the towns around Manchester and in Lancashire, I think my Lancashire ones will actually perform better are over a 20 year period than the ones around Manchester purely because I think when I got onto the bandwagon, that's already half sailed. The bandwagon where? Sorry. You mean the bandwagon in Manchester has already half sailed as opposed to the ones in Lancashire. Yeah. The Manchester ripple effect effectively. Yeah. But then you're looking further afield at that point, then you're looking towards your offshore or the coastline like Lytham Blackpool, Fleetwood. All those areas are starting to see that increase because all of the capital values have already been kind of sucked up in the other areas. So developers are moving into new areas. And I always watch where new builds get bought because I think, you know, that company has got a better research team than I do. better analysts than I do. You know,they've already crunched the numbers. They know where they need to be for x,y, and zed reasons to make a profit effectively and to get that so value if they want to. And so I'll look at where the new builds are being built, and I'd go and have a look around those streets and say, are there any potential houses on here, either that's direct to vendor through an agent or auction that I could potentially purchase for my portfolio? And so my husband as well as a civil engineer. So he works on decent projects around sort of the UK, mainly Midlands and the Northwest. and every single place he's ever been to do a project, we've bought a property so that we know that there is gonna be that uplift because there's investment there in terms of the transport links. So we've got stuff that are near the sulfur keys, and then you've got things up over in Lee. You know, there's been different jobs that he's been involved in. where we've then gone on to invest in those areas. There's got to be a correction eventually. So when there is a correct isn't it the places that get the capital growth last of the first to sink? I think that would be a textbook answer for me. I think part of the corrections already happened, and I think part of that correction already happened after September when Liz trusted what she did with the economy.because you're already getting those restrictions through lenders. They're down valuations. You know,they're not putting lenders in a position where they're going to be over leveraged. And equally, those values there were so high that you've almost got that top layer that kinda has now been removed at 5%. I think even if there was another 5, maybe 10% to go, maximum,you know, those would be an average over the whole of the UK.But then you look at certain pockets, and each of the pockets do differently depending on the employers in the area,the amount of wealth in the area, And for me, I don't see that as a standard 5% over the UK. It just can't happen like that. And, actually, if you read back on research, even back2008 when we had the financial crash. London actually recovered within 3 months of the crash. Its capital values were almost back to where they were pre crash within 3months. And the rest of the UK took a while to catch up.But I put it to Alicia that the areas that see capital growth latest in the cycle are perhaps the ones that take the longest to recover to pre correction levels at the start of a new cycle. I see your point, and I think for me, I would quantify that. more than a percentage. I'd quantify that into pounds early. And I would say, okay. So you buy a 2 bed terrace house, and at top of the market, a 2by Terrace House in Blackpool is a $125. If we take off that $25 and it becomes a $100, your risk is$25. which is actually a serviceable risk.You know, someone is still operating a job or still working, but potentially recover that 25 per round quite quickly. Now if we were talking about another area where we would potentially to lose the same percentage there, if you were talking about capital values of a 1,000,000, then suddenly, rather than a different conversation, you know, the actual value on Sterling is completely different. So when you quantify crash, the crash can happen but the crash in terms of where you sit as an investor. You protect yourself financially enough, and you have enough cash in the bank to recover yourself from any potential dip in any of the areas that you're investing in. You've gotta be able to have that time frame that cash flow available to get you through that particular point in time, and that's what I was saying about the London stuff. If you're predominantly the stock in London, you're gonna see a quite high pitch to begin with, but your recovery will be quicker. So you'll be able to recover that loss bit more much more quickly than someone who potentially has a whole portfolio set in Blackpool with very little contingency, very little cash advance,they're gonna see that loss, which will recover a lot, yeah,lot more slowly. But equally, if they're not in a position to be able to form that loss whilst it's happening, then they would lose the portfolio. So the risk would depend on them as an their sophistication as an as an investor in my opinion. The crash could happen, but depending on you as an individual, how you've set up your business how astute you are in terms of what you need to do to reduce your risk.It's all about the risk risk and reward. You know? And that and that for me is out. If you can understand the risk and you can manage that risk,and you've got enough capital to manage the risk for as long as you need to enable you to hold on to portfolio. and you're not gonna have, you know, the banks ringing you and saying, you know, we're we're in a position now where this is now in negative ephesis, so we're gonna call in the loan. you know, if you're in a position where you can either renegotiate or reduce your loan to value to stop that happening or to at least stop those proceedings going against you. then a crash wouldn't affect a long term investment portfolio, and in my opinion -- Yeah. If you're holding, right, there's no problem Exactly. I think if you trade, it would be a lot more difficult because if you've bought an auction property for a $100 with the idea of selling it for a $125.And then suddenly the market crashes and someone says, well, I can only sell it for a 100. Your cost is the frictional cost of holding that property and buying that property effectively. so you're gonna have to kinda take a bit of a a haircut there. So, yeah, if anyone holding long term like we are, if they're they're in position to tech that timescale,then that's what you need to do. Yeah. As I said, Alicia is the host of the Manchester branch of partners in property. So I thought I'd take this opportunity to get some local knowledge on some specific towns in her region. Can I name some towns now? You just give me your expert opinion on them. Yeah. Well, they're excellent.I'll give you my best shot. Yeah. Sir, how about Burnley? We do have investments in Burnley ourselves. I think if you'd have asked me this question 10 years ago, there would have been the majority of Burnley I would have invited completely. And we actually have this conversation where we bought the in Berlin that we we only bought last year. And I said to my business partners, if you'd have brought this to me10 years ago, I'd have told you don't bother. because it was just a different dynamic, different level of fish back then. Now since then, it seems like a lot of investment. I actually worked in Burnley. for the client of mine. So I was in and out of there every day for 4years. So I actually saw that progression, which was why I knew there were things were on the up. And just like I said before, there are still pockets of poverty. There are still areas where you aren't even able to buy because it's controlled by the council or by a housing association.And there is quite a lot of that in Burnley because it is a core of town within the northwest. So if you've actually compared, for example, Bolton with Burnley, you would say 50% of Burnley is still controlled by housing association. And then, actually,50% is either privately owned or private investors.So it would depend on the town. But Burnley, for me, is a really good investment in certain areas that are close especially to the larger flyers. For example, boohoo moved into the area about 5 years ago, and then you just saw it rocket in terms of the house prices for HMO. Now there is a risk there that you're buying a two bed terrace and then turning it into a five bed HMO and go and get in a commercial evaluation on that. And I think for me, that doesn't sit comfortably. I think if your bricks and mortar valuation is so far beyond where the valuation for commercials is,you probably don't need to do that. And then it's massively saturated now,and they haven't introduced article flow of what they will be introducing it. They introduce selective licensing in a lot of the towns near me.So Burnley has selective licensing and the properties that we've got in Burnley have still got selective licensing, so we have to sign up to this stuff. And the council are actually brilliant in their life.You know, the the process we went through in terms of the application was really robust. and they ask some really good questions about our integrity as a landlord. So there are different moves happening within that town to make it a better and safer place for tenants and the landlords well. So for me, Bert is a great place to invest.You just, as I always say, no matter where you invest, get your feet on the ground, boots on the ground, street by street because every street can be different. And mostly you got those 999 year leases, haven't they most of them there? A lot of our portfolio is lease sold with the long leases. And as long as you understand what the legalities are behind that, you know, we've got some with chat tools potentially on them. We just get the indemnity policies and make sure that we're covered from that perspective. You you either reduce the risk or you ensure it don't get But you wouldn't be able to, for example, get a service accommodation mortgage on any of those properties.Right? It would depend on the lease. Because some of the leaseholds are so basic and so long ago, that that concept would never have even occurred to them. So if it's not written within the lease, There is no restriction.And these leases were written sort of in the 1800 maybe earlier, some of them.because, basically, the terraces effectively were just made for the mills during the industrial revolution to how the workers. So many of them, though, have that restrictive covenant only to be used as a single private dwelling house. Yeah.Most do. some don't, but it's always good to check the legal packs if you're a option. I'll get you solicited to check them for you. Very much so. Yeah.I've I've checked many of them, and always my heart sink when I see that little clause. because I was looking at Burnley quite a lot. You know? I was looking at that because he had British British Aerospace in that massive hospital and that little pocket around there. Yeah. That's a really good one as well. You've got all of the aerospace engineering companies over in Burnley as well, and and that is a really good proposition. Yeah.Definitely. We are just down the road from there because you got Burnley, Blackburn, and then Bolton in between is a small town called Darwin. and we've got quite a few there because that became sort of an investor's paradise. I know, I'd say probably 80% of the stock there is isn't is owned by a landlord and the rest is privately owned because it just the capital values were so low even going back 2018, 2019, you could pick up a terrace house for $30. In a nice street, it was just there wasn't anything going on in Dow, and it was almost have forgotten place because it was in between all these towns. It was just forgotten about,and it used to have a quite a bad reputation in terms of people that lived there. But over the last few years, they've started to get the town fund deal, which has been seen an injection of maybe £45100,000,000into the town center. It's it's attracted employers. It's attracted other people. It's attracted people who've seen capital values in towns like Bolton, burnly, blackburn,rise to a point where the light will actually I'm I'm only 20minutes down the road, 10 minutes down the road. I could just go and live in Darwin, and it's So even that has been demand as well, and that's a mix of free hold and long lease hold as well. So we've got some investments through there as well. How about Rotchdale? I don't invest in Rotchdale. I've always been put off just from a reputational perspective from the council. I just think if it's run by a bad council, I can't there's no value I can have in that town. But I know that there are people who are from that town who invest there in in HMO from what I understand is quite lucrative around there. And I don't even think they have article4, but they do have the tram. and the transfer into Manchester in15 minutes. So it's a good proposition for people, especially if you're on the outskirts of Rotchdale. Because if you go on the outskirts of Brasdale, you're into, like, the beautiful, lush, you know, countryside,and this is what's so lovely about our area is I can drive 10minutes from my house and be in the middle of a forest somewhere. And it just feel like some sort of nature reserve. That's how beautiful this town is that you can then move yourself away from that straight back into the whole bulb of, you know, business and schools and retail parks. We have the middle retail park in Bolton. you know, things like that are just around the corner services like that are available to you, and you can still escape into a place where it's called Rivington. So -- And how about Preston? I don't invest in Preston, but I have friends who've done developments in Preston. I know it's very up and coming especially from a student perspective. I think there's a huge student demand there from international students as well, especially from international students coming from the Far East or from the Middle East as well, some from Europe. So not just the UK. It seems to be on the map, and and I'm not sure why they must have certain sort of courses or facilities at the university. for different things that they're interested in. I'm I'm not quite sure, though, but it's not an area I invest in, but I would be definitely open to any investments in Preston. And I'm thinking about we're saying before about how I actually look for an investment. You know, we have a particular criteria from investments in terms of where it needs to be,what it needs to look like, the condition, what we wanna do with it, which we usually just typically turn them into vital x. We're not service accommodation.We try and steer away from HMO, but we would look anywhere.If the opportunity came along when the numbers made sense and the payback was the criteria, the target that we wanted to reach our goal. We would do the deal. And what advice would she have for expats when deciding who to work with. It is definitely down to trust trust in the person. And I think if you can meet them in person, then do. I think doing those on-site days, even if you had to book a week's holiday, you know, these are big amounts of money, big investments. even if you have to take that time and come over for a few days or a week just to come see the area to meet them to vet what they're saying, vet them. You can't get a feel for a person through Zoom, through a call, or through an email. But I think if you aren't in a position to do that, the only thing you can do is trust the process. Now if you're a regular listener, you'll have heard me talk more than once about the e myth revisited by Michael Gerber, most recently, in our episode on systemization, and hiring VAs, featuring Latoya McDonald in episode 93. The main thrust of the book is that entrepreneurs need to work in rather than on their business. And the author educates us on this via a baker named Sarah, who knows how to make pies but not run a business. By the end of the book,however, Sarah sees her business as an idea rather than a job, and the message of book is that small business owners need to think in terms of creating a franchise that could be rolled out and operated by anyone else. so that the business does not depend on the founder. Well, Alicia has taken all of this on board to such an extent that she's never baked a pie, but she owns not just a bakery, but a care home too.And one of my contact He's a really great guy. He's a consultant for businesses as well. And he said you own a bakery, but you're not a baker. You own care homes, but you're not carer. is that you have a property investment company, but you're not a property professional. I'm a landlord,but I've not ever been an estate agent. I've never been a letting agent. I've never been in that world, the industry. but you identify industries that you feel would work well either congruently or aside from each other. that you have an interest in that you want to be involved in from an investment perspective,purely from an investment perspective. And I think that's probably the best way of putting it. Yeah. It is that you put processes in place. You put the right people in place, and then you effectively just manage that organic system. It just becomes its own little ecosystem, and you just sit at the top. And to be honest,most of the time, I get in the way. You know, if I ever visit and say, Or does anyone need any help? Do you need any support? What can I do? Is there any ideas you need? I'm almost just in no way.I I know the professionals, you know, So you are Sarah from the E Myth Revisited at the end of the book, but you've never baked a pie. Have you well, you might have done in in your private life, but not not professionally. Yeah. Not even mad. Alright.Okay. Unless I was after murdering someone.So the concept behind that is it's effectively building a commercial portfolio.And rather than just be coming from day 1, the landlord, and then there is a lease on that building to a potential tenant, you effectively create a scenario in which you have full control of the asset including the tenancy. So we are effectively the tenant and the landlord. And these are in separate legal entities, so separate SPVs, separate companies. And I always liken it to the McDonald's concept So effectively, when McDonald started to actually buy prime retail to give to franchisees back in sort of the late seventies early eighties. what many people don't know about McDonald's is actually they were already buying real estate and putting burger places on there from sort of the late 70,so 10 years prior. And they were in control of that asset,and they were in control of that restaurant. And then it evolved from there. Once they got themselves into a position where they they'd actually proven the concept themselves. That was when they went out to market and started to say, we're gonna become just the landlord, and then we're gonna franchise out. But actually within the portfolio of the McDonald's tabs, they still have scenarios today where they are the landlord and the tenant themselves.So not all of the restaurants are actually franchises. So that's the plan is, you know, you don't need to reinvent the wheel. These things work for a reason. And all we need to do is bring ourselves into certain industries that we're interested in. and start to accumulate businesses within that. And one business alone on its own is only worth so much. But if you can accumulate 2, 3, 4,5 of the same businesses within that one industry,then you suddenly start to see the benefits of economies of scale, you know, the size of the business, the turnover increases, you know, the profitability that you're able to then generate from the economies of scale in terms of cost sharing across the group. And then you are then in a position where you are able to access even better lending so the funding side can be a lot more beneficial in terms of cost. And all of a sudden, you create this kind of bubble. Let's say 3 or 4 very similar businesses, which should then draw the attention of the big boys because the big boys like pension funds, I'm only looking at a certain amount in terms of turnover and a certain amount in terms of staff. So you've got this level of SME small businesses that are either owner occupied effectively or owner managed. or they are kind of independent investments, but small,a stand alone that aren't really on the radar of the big boys.if you can bring all those small, you know, very good businesses together and make something even better and bigger, that's where your exit is. That was exactly my next question. So your exit strategy is to sell to the pension funds. Either that or if we weren't in a position where we've been able create a group, we would just look for someone to take on the lease of the business and effectively what would be in a position because where we're buying at a point where the price point can be squeezed and we do we do get a discount, and we can add massive value. We know we add massive value to that business.Within five years, that business just the business alone regardless of the asset is actually worth probably three times more than it was 5 years ago. So we're then in a position where we can make a profit. It's almost like a flip, a property flip. You know, you go in, you put a new at your new bathroom in. It's the same with the business. We go in. We we look at the cost. We look at the revenues. We look at the customer base. We we make all those tweaks and and adjustments to add the value.And suddenly then that business becomes a with a lot more standalone.So we could be in a position where we sell the business as a leasehold,a bit like the McDonald's model. We retain control as a landlord of the asset, and then it is just ticking over with a tenant body equally. Not only have we got that lease in place bringing in that residual income every year. We've been able to sell that for a chunk as well. So it's just like the best of both worlds, if that makes sense. Alicia's strategy of buying asset backed businesses is not designed to replace her existing buy to that model, but rather to run alongside it. I'm still buying Batellites.So it's not that we've moved away completely from that strategy, but what we are doing is we're looking for more cash flow. I'm randomly jumping into something like service accommodation or HMO where I can repurpose the isolate property. I would prefer to keep my foundation of Vanilla to let because I feel there's less risk in that investment space and actually move forward and start to buy the business that I know I have a skill set in and I can bring the value to. Vitaler is a very strong, more stable investment with what I would class as not an average return, but a predictable return, which can be forecasted and modeled and doesn't change too fast too, but with.And I know that we've had this period of exceptional growth within capital values and rents, but that is and that's been touched across all businesses, all different investments. I think once we settle down and buy till it gets back to where it probably was pre COVID, You're gonna be in a position where you're making smaller returns, but they are going to be more predictable returns. And contrary to what some of my previous guests have said about the demise of the part time landlord, Alicia believes that if you set up your property business or any other business,In the right way from the beginning, it should run with minimal input once it's up and running. Certainly. I wouldn't be sat here saying the part time landlord thing's dead. I don't think that's true because I could actually pass myself as a part time landlord because the amount of time I spend on my portfolio is about 1hour a month if that because I position myself within the business. The business is set up. that it can run without me. And I have 3 or 4 different letting agents who manage the portfolio for me, and all I do is check-in with them once a month. So that framework is exactly the same framework that I am now putting into place with these businesses that we're buying.So, effectively, the managers of the business are the same as my letting agents, and I'm just going in once a month to do a management review to say, How are things getting on? Do we need any help?What are the challenges? What are the wins? And is there any other business? And then I'm taking on board or adding value as on where I can.So the the model and the framework is exactly the same as a a property portfolio, and I think what's really important for me As a landlord, you have a business, and and this is where this trend is going, you know, the amount of legislation that's coming in, all of the things the safeguarding of tenants, All that sort of stuff is starting to filter in. And these are the things you should already be doing in your portfolio, not just because you have to, because you're a human being, and you providing a place for someone else to live, and I've always really prided myself on the fact that we've gone above and beyond. in terms of what we implement within the business because we wanna be ahead of the curve. I don't like any surprises. I'm not really a surprises person.So I think for me, if we can remodel that, and that's how I've been able to remodel that into this new adventure that we're on. At the time of recording, Alicia was about to run a workshop in tandem without guests from episode 89, Adam Lawrence, for people interested in learning about buying businesses.Although the workshop will already have taken place by the time you're listening to this, it's something that they may repeat in the future. We've been approached by people within our communities to say, oh, I I've been interested in looking at business buying, and there's this course I've been looking at and it comes with, like, a ridiculous price tag for, like, £30,000.And we've said, look. This isn't for everyone. This is almost like development You know? It's as risky as development, and it's just as time consuming. So why don't you come to the workshop? We'll kinda give you what's and all. and you decide whether you wanna do anything with it or not. So it's very basic foundation level workshop just to allow people to understand the ins and outs of the deals that we've been doing. So if someone is interested in that kind of thing, even if they've missed out, podcasts are pretty green kind of things. So people will discover them at different times. But if they're really interested in that, they can get in touch with you and find out if you're running any more of those programs. And where are the programs held? We've been holding them in Manchester, but if we had a number of people approach us for a different location or on Zoom, for example, you know, we'd be quite happy to to do that as well. So, I mean, we do have listeners in the UK and listeners who are expats. So that would be good news for them if you were gonna do that Zoom if you do a lot of this. So if people want to contact you,Alicia, what should they do? The best place to contact me is either on LinkedIn.So it's Alicia Barlow on LinkedIn, or you can find me on Facebook, and it's Alicia Rose Barlow. We do have Instagram, which is Property Solutions Bolton. And would you like to say anything about partners in property? Absolutely. Yeah. So partners in property, Manchester, it's a very Lovely unique group of full time property investors who are in the Manchester area, Northwest area, and we're always looking to grow the membership. You know, it'd be lovely to have some other members come in and get that value that we add every month, and that's whether that's through speakers. We are potentially looking at site visits as well in the next 6 months. So, you know,we're actually gonna get out there and get boots on the ground with potential developments that some of our members are involved in. equally, if you can't make it to the in person meetings, we have a digital membership as well. So it might be worth to the experts to have a look at the digital member because that is a once a month on Zoom meeting in the evenings, UK time, but you can catch up on everything. So everything that is done in Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol, and London.It's videoed and put onto the portal. So we have something called the Vaults on Facebook, there's probably about 4, 500 hours of property content on there, really great property content from some really big players in in the property industry. you so much for your time,Alicia. I really appreciate it. Oh, you're very welcome. Thanks for having me.Something I've picked up from a fair few of my amazing guests is the wisdom of having a high cash flowing business that runs alongside and is used to fund your investment business. So for some people, this may mean having a rent to rent business or a lettings business or even for many of us, our higher paying expat salaries.Alicia showed us an alternative means to cash flow through buying asset based businesses that all being well will give her the cash flow to carry on investing in longer term investments that will over time produce long term wealth through capital growth.The second point of interest raised in today's show was Alisha's belief that there is more room for capital growth in some of the cheaper areas in Lancashire rather than those postcodes closer to Manchester,which she described as climbing aboard a bandwagon that's already half sailed. And following on from that point, the final highlight was her tip to look at where the major developers are building, because in Lizzia's words, Their research and analysis teams are bigger than ours, so they will have crunch numbers we can't even imagine.This week's exotic listener location has such an exotic spelling that I had to Google its pronunciation. It's spelled hvidovere,but it's pronounced much more simply as Vethor.It's a suburb of Copenhagen in Denmark, another country on my not yet been to list. If you're our listener in Vethor, and you haven't already done so, sign up to our mailing list for access to this month's newsletter, which you can do by scrolling down the show notes until you see the words, subscribe to our mailing list. Thanks to Alicia for appearing, and to you for listening. And if you're feeling friendly and you'd like to help, then share the show to spread the word. You've been listening to -- Expat property story.