Two Tribes

Vanessa  00:00

Yes, we'll start up an expat tribe and we'll give your podcast sponsorship of it and let's see if we can get some good conversations happening around expat investing.

Introduction  00:14

You're listening to Expat Property Story, a podcast in which I share my story to smooth the way for you to have your own Expat Property Story.

Expat Property-Guy  00:26

Hello there and welcome to episode 13. Of Expat Property Story. The show for expats investing in UK property with your host, the Expat Property Guy. That was Vanessa Warrick of Property Tribes, the forum for landlords and property investors. She'll be giving us some handy tips and tricks for getting the most out of Property Tribes in this, the second part of my interview with her and, of course, you can go back to Episode 10 For the first instalment. Now as you just heard there, Vanessa has generously offered us sponsorship of the Expat Investors Tribe I cheekily asked for at the end of our chat. Last week, I posted a question there asking the following question: What's the one thing you wish you'd known before starting your Expat Property Story? So please take a moment to share your experience of expat property investing on the new Expat tribe on Property Tribes. Or, if you're too shy to post in public, you can answer the question by leaving a voice message or a written message at www.expatpropertystory.com. This week, I thought I'd introduce a new feature where I highlight some of the exotic parts of the world our listeners are located, which shows the width and breadth of interest in UK property. So this week's featured exotic location is Playa Del Carmen in Mexico. And I picked this one because that's where I found myself on December the 31st 1999. So if you're our listener from Playa Del Carmen in Mexico, leave a message and tell me how you heard about the show where you are in your property story and what you'd like to have more of in future episodes. And that's not just for our listener in Mexico! Wherever you are, help me create content that you want to hear. Now, last week we heard from Peter and Joanna Meek, who were forced to joint venture with UK based Property Partners after discovering the difficulties of securing mortgages, due to their lack of a UK footprint after leaving the UK 20 years previously. They had sold their UK property before leaving for Australia. It's an inspiring story. So if you missed it, it's well worth going back to Episode 12 To have a listen. One of the problems they had was that Joanna hadn't changed her name after getting married in Australia. Well, my wife and I encountered exactly the same problem when we went to remortgage the family home to get our Expat Property Story going back in 2017. You can listen to all previous episodes to get the full story. But very briefly, after months of full starts, we had finally decided on a strategy of buying a two or three bed terraced house and turning it into a five or six bed student HMO. All that remained was to choose a location and release equity from our previous home which had been turned into a buy to let when we moved to Hong Kong. A mortgage broker found a suitable lender for expats, Skipton international and between them, they arranged a valuation, which came back at £425,000, we had bought it for just over £150,000 in 2003. So it had nearly tripled in value, which is a great argument for investing in UK property right there. We spent a couple of days trying to decide on the level of equity to release, the choice came down to borrowing £236,000 on a tracker mortgage, which was a loan to value of around 55% or £300,000 on a five-year fixed mortgage, which would be an LTV of around 70%. Both mortgages were interest only. Borrowing more would get us a lower rate. But if we opted to borrow more, the rental income would only just cover the interest payments. As newbie property investors, we decided to play safe and borrowed at the lower 55% loan to value. We had started the re-mortgage process in early October 2017. And after the valuation in mid-December, we were hopeful of completing in early January. So, you can imagine our frustration when Skipton's lawyer flagged up a problem in early January. We had used my wife's married name on the mortgage application form, but the title deeds for the property were in her maiden name. The solicitor was asking for proof of ID in her married name, which we couldn't provide. To this day I can't for the life of me work out how my wife's new name ended up on the title deeds given that we hadn't been married when we had bought the property. The solicitor offered two solutions. We could either ask Skipton to change my wife's name on the mortgage application or we could ask the land registry to change the name on the deed. We offered the lender our marriage certificate as proof that her married name and her maiden name represented the same person but the lender said no, which meant that we would have to change her name on the title deeds with the Land Registry. And guess what document was needed to do this? Of course, her marriage certificate. So, we had to certify her ID, her proof of address and our marriage certificate, the third set of certification for this re mortgage and send it all to the Land Registry. To cut a long story short, the re-mortgage finally went through at the end of January. It had taken nearly four months to complete. In the meantime, we had been researching the best location for our student HMO. Tune in next week to see which location we chose. A couple of listeners have messaged the show asking for more content on resources. And I'll put together an episode about that in the future. But in the meantime, perhaps the best resource available to me when I started was Property Tribes. So, when I decided to start Expat Property Story, I knew I had to talk to Vanessa Warwick, which I did in early March, when the UK was experiencing the kind of storms we sometimes get here in Hong Kong. Vanessa, you are a household name in the world of property. But in all my research on you, I was unable to find you telling a joke! So, can you put that right today?

Vanessa  06:12

Well, it's actually quite a topical one because it came from the recent storm, Eustace. Whenever there's a storm, we have a thread on Property Tribes called 'Who's responsible for the fence panel in my garden?' And we always get this massive spike on this particular thread because it ranks very highly on Google for that that search term. So, whenever there's a storm that there's always landlords coming on to Property Tribes asking these kinds of questions, but one landlord came on and reported that he'd heard from his tenant, and his tenant had contacted him to say, I'm worried about the caravan in my front garden. And the landlord said, "Well, what's the problem?" And he said, "Well, it wasn't there yesterday!"

Expat Property-Guy  06:51

Ha ha! So it belongs to the next door neighbour.

Vanessa  06:55

Sounds like it doesn't it?

Expat Property-Guy  06:57

Certainly does. I guess you know what KYC stands for right?

Vanessa  07:02

Know your customer?

Expat Property-Guy  07:02

Yes. But do you know what K Y P stands for?

Vanessa  07:06

Know your pet?

Expat Property-Guy  07:07

It's a good guess. Well, actually, it's something I made up myself and it stands for Know Your Postcode and you have sportingly agreed to take part in postcode challenge, which is the part of the show where I asked guests three multiple choice questions on their chosen postcode is the best of three. So you have to get two of the three questions right to win. And if you don't, I will be the winner. So Vanessa, what is your chosen postcode,

Vanessa  07:30

I have chosen one of our holiday let's which is at Camber Sands Beach in East Sussex, and that is TN31 7UP

Expat Property-Guy  07:39

You have more than one holiday let, right?  Yeah.  And I know that that's a strategy that you argue for quite a lot. With that property that you have there, did you find the property, and THEN choose the strategy? Or did you have the strategy lined up? And then you went looking for the property?

Vanessa  07:56

Well, that's a great question. I was thinking about diversifying out of single occupancy buy to let because I built a pretty solid portfolio of just standard buy to let properties. I've got a portfolio of one or two bedroom apartments in various postcodes in North and East London. And then I've got some 3, 4, 5 bed family homes in what I call the M3/ M4 corridor in the southeast. I have got some stock up north, but I don't talk about it because it's pretty rubbish. To be honest, I needed to maybe diversify. And it was around the time where there was this huge kind of renaissance in falling back in love with the great British seaside holiday, around 2008. And we saw programmes like Coast emerging, and I was kind of pondering this. And then I saw an article about Canva sands. I was absolutely captivated by this incredible beach and I was talking to a friend about it and he said, Oh, yes, he said in the winter, all the kite surfers are down there. That kind of prompted a further thought: well, that means that there's going to be a lot of traffic there, kind of year round. And so that's why I started investigating suitable properties at Camber Sands beach.

Expat Property-Guy  09:08

 So both your holiday lets are at Camber Sands are they?

Vanessa  09:11

 No, I've got one on the island of Portland in Dorset

Expat Property-Guy  09:14

Portland... I love Portland. You're making me nostalgic for Britain.

Vanessa  09:18

Oh, quite well, this is why this why there's been such a resurgence in the Great British seaside holiday because, you know, we remember it from our childhood. And we're so blessed to have this incredible coastline. And most people can reach it within two or three hours of wherever they are in the UK. And we've got everything from these amazing, long sandy beaches to rocky cliffs to islands to stunning coastal walks. What is more wonderful than being by the sea. I know I always feel better when I'm near the seaside.

Expat Property-Guy  09:51

True! You stopped at two holiday lets did you? You didn't want to kind of get any more? Well, I was in a phase of acquisition for about four years. And then I bought my holiday lets, one in 2006 one in early 2009. Obviously then we had the financial crash, it became a lot harder to get finance at that juncture. Ever since then I've kind of been in what I would call a consolidation mode, constantly improving and updating my properties because I bought almost every single property as a new build. 18 years later, they're all coming up now for some quite major facelifts. So, I'm on a kind of rolling programme of doing that. But if I was to go back into buying mode, which I expect to in the next year or so, I would definitely go for another holiday let. So maybe we can put some links to book your holiday let in the show notes for the episode if you'd like

Vanessa  10:46

Oh, that would be awesome. I would offer your your listeners a 10% discount if they want to get in touch directly with me.  That sounds great. Okay, thank you

Narrator  10:57

Postcode Challenge.

Expat Property-Guy  10:58

 I think we're ready to start the challenge. Okay, so question number one, who is the MP for your postcode? Is it a) Sally Hart? b) Mary Ann Hart or c) Sally Ann Hart?

Vanessa  11:11

Oh, I've no idea! b I guess?

Expat Property-Guy  11:13

I'm afraid, no, no, it is c) it's Sally Ann Hart. Oh, at least you've learned something today. Question number two. Which group makes up the highest proportion in terms of relationship status? So in other words, which are there more of? Is it a) married couples, b) singles, or c) divorcees?

Vanessa  11:38

A

Expat Property-Guy  11:39

Correct. So, we'll go into the third and final question. You're still in with a chance. Question number three. Are there more males or females in your postcode?  Females?  Correct. You win! Perfect answer. Yeah, there are in fact, there are 124 females and 115 males. And while we're on the subject of gender, I was talking to a guy called Sean yesterday, who's in Bermuda. And he told me about some research that he'd seen saying that men's primary concern when buying property is return on investment. And women's primary concern is not losing their money. So would you say that's true for you and your husband, Nick,

Vanessa  12:19

That's, that's really interesting to hear that research, I do think that men and women have a somewhat different approach to money. Certainly, when I was starting out, we had a huge amount of equity in my flat in London, and my husband and I went to see the bank manager, as you did in those days, when banks had actual personal bank managers that you could go and talk to face to face. And we discussed with him doing an equity release from my flat in London via a buy to let mortgage and we work the numbers and he said, Oh, you can access £140,000. And my husband said, oh, we'll take the lot. And I said, No, no, no. And I was too nervous to release the full amount of equity from it and leverage right up. So, I said, No, I'm going to start with £40,000, please, which my husband obviously agreed to. And I use that to buy my first investment property in five London, one bedroom flat that was in need of refurbishment, but within about two months, I was back at the bank manager saying I'll take the other £100,000 Please. Right. Yes, women probably are more cautious. I think I think that's just kind of built into our DNA.

Expat Property-Guy  13:34

That's how we started our story was by refinancing our original family home and then started from there. So I think it's a great strategy for for getting started if you don't have funds, right? Well it is. In my case, I refinanced it turned it into a buy to let and then I had sufficient equity and my husband also had some money and we put that into the home that we live in today that we bought in 2002. So, we bought a new residence and we also had more money left over to carry on building the portfolio. So ,it was interesting that I used my London flats as kind of stepping stone into buy to lets. It's such an important point. You know, try never to sell a property. There's so many costs and taxes associated with selling that if you can have your own home and you want to start a buy to let portfolio one way you could consider is if you were thinking of moving home anyway or upsizing or downsizing is to use your current residential property as your first buy to let by changing it to a buy to let mortgage redeeming the residential loan on it and using any excess funds to buy yourself another home or maybe even another home and another buy to let investment depending on how much money you have leftover. Great idea. Yes, I must say that I've only ever sold one property and it was incredibly stressful. And I much prefer buying to selling

Vanessa  15:00

Likewise, the conveyancing process in the UK is unnecessarily drawn out creaking at the seams, I think there's a lot of moves afoot to try and reform it and speed it up. You know, we've got a lot of processes being digitised the Land Registry is currently being digitised. So, I can see that in the future, it will become a lot more seamless and faster, because there's actually no real reason why it should take so, so long. I love buying property, I love deal hunting, and I love the negotiation process. I love getting a property ready to rent fitting it out. It's something that I really, really do enjoy.

Expat Property-Guy  15:42

I think everybody feels the same. So, in the course of my research, I found an article where you highlighted three main mistakes made by landlords, and they were firstly, not carrying out enough or the right kind of due diligence on a property. The second mistake landlords make is failing to understand that we're effectively running a business. So, it's not a hobby or a side hustle. So we should, you know, adopt a more business mindset to property. And the final mistake that you talked about, and this is the most interesting one is buying a property that is a long way from where you live. And I'm quoting you here, 'My advice is to buy within a 10 mile radius of your home.' So, Vanessa, is this the end of the interview? Should we just go home now?

Vanessa  16:24

Ha ha! No, there's very many legitimate reasons why you could need to buy a property that is located a long way away from you, I generally recommend that you start out buying close to home because you're learning a new business, it makes sense to reduce your risk. By buying close to where you live, because you know the area you can visit it, you'll have good contacts in the area. But of course, there are many, as I said legitimate reasons why you might need to buy remotely, it might be that you can get a better yield further afield, for instance, but you again need to mitigate your risk. So a couple of ways of doing that would be to work with a reputable managing agent who's going to look after the property well for you. Or the second way, which I'm a big fan of is to buy a property that's already tenanted, because it means that you get income from day one of ownership, you can see how the tenant is keeping the property. And you can check the rent payment history to see if they've been paying on time. So if you must buy remotely, those would be my two tips to really mitigate your risk because I do believe that the risk is amplified if you're buying in an area that you don't know. And you know, we hear many stories on Property Tribes of landlords that have rushed up north to buy cheap, you know, £40,000 £60,000 houses. And what they don't realise is that these properties are in very, very deprived areas. So properties are often cheap for a reason. There can be legitimate reasons why they're cheap, or they can be you know, very worrying reasons why they're cheap. And unfortunately, newbies are often not able to distinguish between the two. That's why I kind of caution when you're starting out to buy close to home to start off with 

Expat Property-Guy 

A couple of things I'd like to pick up on there. I think I agree with pretty much everything that you advocate on various threads on Property Tribes, I know that you are a fan of cashflow over capital growth. But that's one that I'm not sure about is buying with a pre existing tenant, because we did this once. And I have to say it was an absolute nightmare because the lender wouldn't lend on a property with pre existing tenants. So, then the vendor suggested finding a new lender, my mortgage broker said that all lenders would have similar answers. And we ended up having to set up a kind of like a deed of surrender. And the whole thing took about five, six months to complete. So it's something that I wouldn't do again.

Vanessa

Okay, well, there ARE lenders that will lend on tenanted properties. So there's more and more products coming out all the time. I'm not sure if you had access to a whole of market broker, but I don't know how long ago this was. But the thing about buying a tenanted property. There's another important point about that: Section 21. Through people selling up is one of the greatest cause of homelessness very often when a tenant has been very happily living in a property for a long period of time. And then they're asked to leave because the owner wishes to sell out they can end up sleeping on somebody's sofa struggling to find a new property for whatever reason. This is why I do advocate this because it's a win win for everybody. In my opinion, the seller wins because they have rent up to the day of completion the buyer wins because they have rental income from day one of ownership and the tenant wins because they can remain in their home property is obviously about creating a margin and making it a worthwhile investment. But you know, it is a people business as well. And it's very, very important to always think about your tenant, what you're doing and how it could impact them. And I think that's what good landlords do.

Expat Property-Guy  20:24

Yeah. Yeah. So it sounds like maybe we were just a bit unlucky in that particular situation,

Vanessa  20:28

Perhaps yes, I do know of buying and selling of talented properties, and even whole portfolios. There's a brilliant website called Vesta. V E S T A, that is a platform for buying and selling tenanted properties, portfolios and indeed blocks of flats. So there's a definite market for it.

Expat Property-Guy  20:48

Talking of Property Tribes, one of the slogans which I love, is make other people's hindsight, your foresight. So what is the best way specifically for expat UK property investors to use Property Tribes? How would you recommend that they use it?

Vanessa  21:03

Dive in, I guess, Property Tribes is just like, you know, a massive hive mind of landlord knowledge. And if we added up all the years of experience of the landlords on there, it would go into the hundreds of thousands. So, people are on there sharing their experiences, we've got people asking questions and seeking solutions to problems, and they get those answered. And I think it's so healthy, that it's community generated conversation. So, it can't have any kind of bias, because it's a whole raft of people commenting, and everybody's got a different opinion, that's very, very healthy. And my view on it is that you should dive in, digest and chew on all the different comments and arguments, mull it over in your own mind, and then reach your own conclusion. Reading all the huge amounts of knowledge shared by very experienced landlords, what better way to learn, you know, as I say, how to make others hindsight, your foresight, don't fall into those pitfalls, that the people that have gone before you have fallen into, use their knowledge and their hindsight to avoid them.

Expat Property-Guy  22:18

Our guest from Episode Six, Derek, he said that one of the benefits of Property Tribes for him was that when he answers a question, he may get corrected in the answers. And this helps his own self development. So, what would you say to new members who are perhaps experiencing a little bit of impostor syndrome? Because I mean, personally, I always feel a little bit nervous when I join a new forum about something I don't really know anything about. So, what advice could you offer newbies?

Vanessa  22:45

Well, again, dive in! The fact that people want to learn and grow is the most wonderful thing, bravo, I say to them, I personally try and welcome all our new members. My husband, Nick, his mum, was a teacher. And she said, 'There's no such thing as a stupid question if you don't know the answer.' And of course, the great benefit of posting your question online is that there'll be many, many other people now and 5, 10, 15, 50 years into the future that have the same question. And you're helping them learn and grow as well, by asking the question and getting the answers. You know, we were all newbies once, when I started out in 2004, I didn't even know the interest rate on my own mortgage, or how many years it had left to run. That's how uninformed I was. I always put myself back in those shoes whenever people ask questions on Property Tribes, because I remember how little knowledge I had, and how other people helped me. And, you know, ask that question. And you're, you know, as a default sideline, you're helping other people learn and grow as well, we aim to create a very inclusive and welcoming and professional place where people can discuss property and landlordism. So you can be assured of a very warm welcome at Property Tribes.

Expat Property-Guy  24:14

If you post a question, and you don't get a response, what's the best etiquette for that?

Vanessa  24:20

The best thing is, if you wait 24 hours, and then just go back on your own thread and bump it up by saying, I haven't got an answer yet. Can anybody assist me please? Sometimes when it's very busy, it goes through phases throughout the day, but in a busy period, a new thread will drop down off the front page very, very quickly, then it may remain unanswered but quite often, there's a tab which says unanswered questions. Very often I go on there, and I see if anybody hasn't received an answer. And if I know the answer, I'll answer it myself. Or if I don't, I'll forward it to somebody who I think might know the answer. We have a lot of wonderful contributors on Property Tribes. We've got a brilliant landlord and tenant lawyer called David Smith who often answers all our legal questions and questions about HMOs. And we've got people like Paul Shampalina, and Kate Faulkner who are well known industry commentators. And obviously, we have lots of portfolio landlords that have been in the game since the year dot, and they'll know the answer. It helps me learn and grow as well. And quite often, you know, people will correct me if I've made, you know, an incorrect comment. And that's absolutely fine.

Narrator  25:27

One of the most useful aspects of Property Tribes is as a first port of call for due diligence...

Vanessa  25:33

The property sector, as in many sectors of business, does often suffer from a lack of transparency. Yeah. And so wherever a light can be, shone, it's a very worthy thing. Only nefarious individuals and sharp practice and fraud, they're only allowed to survive in dark corners. If you shine a light on them, they're exposed, you know. We can create educational resources that help people stop losing money, I hear all the time from people who have lost life saving amounts of money, even their pensions, trusting the wrong person or the wrong company. So, anything I can do to stop financial loss, that's actually very important to me as an individual, and something that I endeavour to work on literally every day, I'm creating resources and due diligence tools to help people make wiser investment decisions, financial loss can be absolutely devastating. People have taken their own lives, it's destroyed families and marriages, I had somebody phone me recently, actually a very, very, very distressed gentleman. And I feared for his mental well-being... I regarded him as a suicide risk, he was in such a dreadful state. And these kinds of stories really resonate with me, it could be my sister, my brother, my parents who have been scammed of all their money. So, I do what I can to create awareness of the methods of these individuals, because the individuals are like a revolving door, they come and go, they all use the same method to relieve people of their money. So, if I can create awareness of the method, I think that's even more helpful than, you know, just actual individuals being mentioned on Property Tribes as being suspect.

Expat Property-Guy  27:20

How does the process of picking sponsors for Property Tribes work? Would you say that you're effectively endorsing your partners? And how do you ensure that a partner's values continue to match your own?

Vanessa  27:33

Well, when we get approached by a new sponsor, we do due diligence on them, we have been in the sector for 20 years now. So, we do have kind of a very deep knowledge of who all the players are. And also, we seem to be a central point for people that are experiencing issues with service providers. Every day of the week, I'll get called by somebody saying, Oh, I've lost money to so and so or I'm having trouble with this company. So, we do do due diligence. And we do our absolute utmost to only work with ethical providers of legitimate products and services for landlords. If we get rumblings about a sponsor or partner, and it causes us concern, we will discontinue our relationship with them. But that's not to say that we're infallible. And sometimes it may be that we get it wrong. But the great thing about Property Tribes is that our sponsors are accountable to the community. So if somebody has an issue with one of our partners, or sponsors, they can come on to Property Tribes and say, I've had an issue with X company, you know, I'm not happy and this is what's happened. I can honestly say, in the history of Property Tribes since 2009, I think we've had about three threads where people have complained about service levels from our partners and sponsors. And we've drawn our partners and sponsors attention to that thread, and they have resolved it with the customer.

Expat Property-Guy  29:06

What does risk mean to you?

Vanessa  29:08

It's interesting, I think risk means different things to different people. And different people have different risk thresholds. I always describe myself as a low risk investor, and I seek to minimise risk at every opportunity. If you have higher risk, you can access higher awards, but it's very important that you understand your own risk threshold and stick to it. And I think that's one of the great things about property is that it's not a case of one size fits all, certainly no right or wrong as to what your risk threshold is. It's just what it is. And you can tailor property investment to suit your particular you know, attitudes to different things as we've been discussing that I guess risks to me is potential financial loss, I guess or potential hassle that I can do without. I got into property to sleep well at night not to be tossing and turning and having a very busy and what I call fizzy mind worrying about things all the time. So horses for courses really I haven't grown a massive portfolio I've bought built what I call a mid-scale portfolio. I've provided good quality accommodation to my tenants, I've been a considerate and empathetic landlord. Yeah, I'm very grateful for, for what property has helped us do. But you know, we've been in it 20 years, and we're certainly not in a position to give up working completely. You know, Nick takes an income from Property Tribes, I don't take any money at all from Property Tribes, it only supports Nick and I do consultancy work in the property sector. And I have a few other little income streams here and there. But property is the main bulk of it. But you know, I'm not going to be going on around the world cruise or sipping a cocktail on a Caribbean holiday anytime soon.

Expat Property-Guy  30:58

If listeners want to contact you, how do you prefer to be contacted?

Vanessa  31:02

I'm very open person to contact I put all my contact details everywhere on the web. So you can look on the Contact Us page on Property Tribes, there's my phone number and email next phone number and email. I'm on Twitter at 4_walls. Yeah, I'm very happy for anybody to get in touch with me about anything. If they've got a question about property, then of course, please ask it on Property Tribes That's what it's there for, the whole community benefits from it. It's one to many communication instead of one to one communication, which is what a phone call is. So, any questions at all about property, please ask them on Property Tribes But anything else? You know, people are welcome to get in touch with me.

Expat Property-Guy  31:43

I have one more challenging question for you. Vanessa expats? Can we have a tribe?

Vanessa  31:49

Well, it's interesting that you say that the short answer is yes. I don't see why not. Maybe we could give your podcast sponsorship of the expat tribe.

Expat Property-Guy  31:58

Well, my goodness that would surpass all my expectations from the question.

Vanessa  32:03

Well, there you go.

Expat Property-Guy  32:03

That's very kind of you, Vanessa.

Vanessa  32:05

Well, you're doing good stuff, you're sharing for the sake of sharing and the, you know, the enrichment of other people. And that's just a wonderful thing to do and we'll always support that. None of us is as smart as all of us.

Expat Property-Guy  32:19

Property Tribes does a fantastic job in helping people to make better investment choices. And I think I speak for everybody when I say thank you so much to you and Nick and everyone at Property Tribes for the fantastic platform that you've provided. So thank you very much for your time today. Vanessa, speak soon.

Vanessa  32:35

Bye, bye,

Expat Property-Guy  32:36

Bye.  Here are three things to highlight. Vanessa talked about the concept of Property Tribes as a hive mind with everybody clubbing together their knowledge, experience and opinions for the greater good. So don't be shy, dive in. The second thing that springs to mind without getting too spiritual is that the more you help others, the more it will come back to you in unexpected ways. And I have definitely found that to be true by doing this podcast. Finally, Vanessa pointed out that what she loves about Property Tribes is its transparency and how it allows a light to be shone on those individuals who like to operate in the shadows. So, when doing due diligence on potential Property Partners in the UK, you should start with a search on Property Tribes. Thank you for choosing to listen to the show, wherever you are, and for sticking around till the end. A lot of work goes into this podcast. So, all I ask in return is that if you've enjoyed the show, please rate, review and subscribe or give me an idea for a future episode at expatpropertystory.com So that we can keep building our network of expat property investors. Next week, we have a guest who built her portfolio while in the UK and now travels the world to wherever takes her fancy, safe in the knowledge that her property income makes it all possible. So join me next week to see what you can learn from her. And don't forget if you know someone who would benefit from this podcast, share the show to spread the word. You've been listening to Expat Property Story