Breaking Down Barriers: A Conversation with Earl B Hunter Jr, Black Folks Camp Too

So what does it take to break barriers and invite more black folks into the great outdoors? In this episode we unpack that and a whole lot more, as I sit down with Earl B Hunter Jr with Black Folks Camp 2 to recap all the happenings since the last time Earl was on the show. Only this time we go a lot deeper. We reflect on Earl's transformational journey and how his high school football coach had a profound impact on his life then and still to today. Earl's belief that a change going to come resonates powerfully with the civil rights movement and his vision for Black Folks Camp 2. Earl and I reflect on the importance of unity and inclusivity in enjoying the natural beauty that surrounds us. We delve into the reasons of why many folks of color are yet to experience the outdoor lifestyle and we explore the impactful ways to extend an invitation to them. Hear about the winsome philosophy that keeps Earl motivated a focus on the positive and a firm belief that unity is the key to success. The conversation takes a fascinating turn as we discuss the ROI of welcoming those new to nature and the significant benefits it can bring to the outdoor industry. As Earl puts it, inviting more black folks into the outdoors is not just about extending an invitation. It's about creating a space of unity open to all people. I hope you enjoy this heart and eye opening episode that challenges all of us to play our part in shaping a more inclusive and unified outdoor industry. You're listening to Exploration Local, a podcast designed to explore and celebrate the people and places that make the Blue Ridge and Southern Appalachian Mountains special and unique. My name is Mike Andress, the host of Exploration Local. Join us on our journey to explore these mountains and discover how they fuel a spirit of adventure. We encourage you to wander far, but explore local. Let's go. Okay, I am 83 episodes into this podcast and I have to tell you that I often talk about. I need to get you back. We need to do another follow up episode, and this is the very first follow up episode that I've ever done, and it is with my boy who Earl B Hunter Jr, with black folks camp to welcome brother.

This is pretty excited. We're sitting here in Cherokee, north Carolina, at the outdoor economy conference. I really don't have an agenda. That's right, we decided we don't know what we're going to talk about that's right. We're going to talk about everything under the sun that we can actually get out to have a amazing, delightful conversation, my friend, we are, we are, and it's also the first time that I've never done that too, so this feels so freeing.

It's just like having a real conversation.

I think it's something to be said about that, though, in regards to you know, the second time around or being able to give updates, and the other thing is it says that there's some consistency and some continuity and some methodical thinking of consistency, that I'm actually even here to give the second one. That's right, so I'm pretty pretty stoked about that.

So one of the things that our listeners may not know or they may if they go back and listen to the very first episode that we did with you, right, but this conference is where you launched Black folks camp two back in 2019 and 2023.

Look at us now, almost four years ago. Well, four, four years ago, you know, our company, black folks camp two, was launched right here. It was actually in Asheville, north Carolina, but the same conference, outdoor economy conference, and I remember on the stage I sang a change going to come, a change going to come.

I was born by the river in a little tent, just like the river, I've been running ever since. Been a long, long time coming and I know, and I know change going to come. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I sang that same song right there Opening up the conference and honestly, I looked over the crowd and I just I don't know if the folks really believe or understood what we were doing and why we were going to do it and how we're going to do it, and it's been special, it's been special.

Do you know what? So you didn't just make up those words about being on a river sleeping in a tent. That's actually part of that song.

Yeah, it is, it is. That's. That's Sam Cook man. That's one of the most incredible songs, particularly in the Black culture, particularly from Black folks, man. It was a song that was actually utilized and actually sang a lot in the civil rights movement, but it was. It was a beautiful song.

Okay, so I'm making a connection here that I didn't make. The first time we heard listen to this. The first time I listened to that, I was so blown away that, without knowing you broke out in a song and it was flipping good, yeah, it was, but but what I was waiting for at the end, though, was your whoa.

Oh yeah, I tried to get it out. My voice was like I was like whoa, my voice didn't have it, but it was.

I was trying, but here's the really cool thing. Like that is what I've experienced you doing ever since the first time that you and I met. So if it's you at a waterfall soaking your head hot head after walking, in a waterfall, or bringing people along, or sitting in lawn chairs or traveling in an RV with South Carolina State's coach.

Yeah, south Carolina State Park. Yeah, south Carolina State University. Buddy Pugh is my. He's amazing, oh my gosh.

Yeah, I'll remind you. I'll tell you a story about watching him. Actually, I think it was right after I saw one of your.

I don't know if it was right after I saw one of your Instagram posts, but then, right after that I saw him coach and I saw him coach the way that he is intensity, but his intensity, but then the way he loves genuinely on his players to he loved on me, Coach Pugh, Buddy Pugh, the head football coach at South Carolina State University, which is a HBCU and for all the listeners out there that do not know what HBCU is, historical, the historical black college and university that's close to a hundred, over a hundred in here in the United States. I think North Carolina has close to either 10 to 12. He is in South Carolina. He was my high school hair coach and he took me home every day for four years as a high school player, when he moved on to different spaces, different jobs, and he became the head football coach at South Carolina State University. I followed him. I followed everything he did. I modeled myself and sometimes after him. He was an incredible guy. As a matter of fact, when I text him before every game now, I tend to tear up a bit because he meant that much to me. He's such an amazing man. He's retiring this year this is his last year, so and I'm actually gonna see him on Friday so I'm excited.

Is it gonna be full time on the road with you after that? I hope so.

He's been an ambassador for South Carolina State Parks and he's a lifelong South Carolinian. He's one of the most incredible people you ever wanna meet. His favorite word is finish it.

Finish it, finish it, oh gosh, that's good. It's good. I'm great at starting things, but I'm not always good at finishing things.

Sometimes he says finish it. He's over 20-some years at South Carolina State, that's amazing.

Yeah, it's good. What an amazing career. That's good. All right, let's talk about you.

Let's talk about.

Well, I know you probably don't wanna talk about you, but let's talk about BlackFoots Camp 2. Let's talk about all the amazing things you're doing because, as you said earlier 2019, you started this and you're on the stage and you didn't know. You looked at it over the crowd and people you're looking at you, wondering. You know you're imagining that they're wondering like where is this going? Is this ever gonna get off the ground? Or is this just excitement?

Yeah.

Yeah, it's more than that it's real, and so you have been involved in traveling. In fact, the last time I saw you live was when you flew in from Colorado.

Colorado Big gear show.

My daughter was on that. She texted me and said hey, I think your friend's on this plane. I'm like who? She said Earl, who came to the house.

I'm like all right, okay, good.

So that's the last time I saw you, so you've been literally planes, hotels, I mean on the road, campgrounds, campgrounds.

Hobbit houses, tents, spreading the message, spreading the message of unity in the outdoor community and beyond. You know, for the folks that don't know, blackfoots Camp 2, we might be probably one of the most delightful companies in the world. You know our job has always been to remove fear, add knowledge and invite more BlackFoots to camp and enjoy the outdoor lifestyle with any and everyone. And while we do that, we wanna create more unity in the outdoor community and beyond. You know a lot of folks when we speak or when I keynote, when I go across the country, I have to preference and tell folks that our company says BlackFoots Camp 2. 2 means also and as well. Our company does not say BlackFoots Camp only with BlackFoots, but BlackFoots Camp by themselves. We're not a group, we're not a club, we're not not a profit, we are a for-profit business. We are a company. We are a company helping this beautiful $880 billion outdoor industry understand the why many folks of color have never really experienced the outdoor lifestyle and how to invite and welcome us there. And also to help lifestyles, current lifestyles to understand that there is a huge ROI, and ROI for us means internal inclusion. There's a huge ROI to encourage and welcome folks who've never seen and experienced the beautiful great outdoors of nature. And we do it in a very methodical way. We don't twist arms, we twist hearts. We don't call people out, we call them in. I am the leader of this company. However, though we have staff, there are folks that are not only behind the scenes but in front of the scene doing some things that are incredible. We don't sugarcoat anything. We don't step on eggshells from anyone. We believe that we have the formula to help move the needle, to help make the outdoors more diverse, more inclusive, more fun for everybody.

That's what we believe. Well, there's no way, if anybody ever watched a video of you or something on social, or even live with you, that you weren't having fun. So I mean, that's all you are about is having the fun.

Hey man, you know, I never had a bad day in my life, man, I've had some bad moments now which is no bad days. I just think it's important that folks know that Earl got problems too. That's right. Earl deal with things, just like you deal with things. I deal with stuff. I got problems, I got issues. I mean, I got whole life of issues. I mean, I'm 47 years old, trust me, I've had all kind of stuff. However, though, I just kind of focus on the positive things. That's cool, right, that's good. It is what it is.

So talk about some of the changes Maybe not changes. Talk about just some of the things that you've been involved with lately, some of the places you've gone, and a follow up to that might be what are some of the stories that you're hearing back from people.

We started off our company, we took a lot of folks out camping, rving, backpacking we did everything basically with folks taking folks out and inviting folks out instead for rock climbing. We didn't do rock climbing just because our insurance would pay for all that. But the other thing is we wanted to be very inclusive about that as well. We took our black folks, white folks, Spanish folks, asian folks, latino folks, but we took out everybody. And we took folks out because we wanted to see how they operated around the campfire. We wanted to see what it felt like for them to be in nature, who it was. We wanted to get that data and we've had an opportunity to collect a lot of data over the last four years and we've compiled that data, not only just with the consumer, but we also compiled the data from the industry. We compiled the data on what the industry did not know with the data from the consumer, so we can help each other become that. We've been the glue between the two and that data has allowed us to really get into spaces and create sincere, meaningful, measurable and sustainable solutions, which is why folks have seen me traveling around the country so much, which is why folks have seen me keynote so much in different spaces, whether it be state park, national parks, retail and all these spaces. Folks in the outdoor industry who truly care about the industry and the lifestyle are wanting to help shift the narrative based on demographic shift and based on data. And if the people who are in this industry or in the lifestyle don't understand that there is a shift, if we don't create sincere, meaningful, measurable and sustainable solutions, we're going to see a lack of in those spaces period, whether it be in the loyalty of the outdoors, the love of it or in the outdoor industry. I just believe that we, as a company also, we move a little bit different. We don't sugarcoat things about why black folks have been in the outdoors. We don't sugarcoat that generational fear. We don't sugarcoat the fact that we have a lack of knowledge. We don't sugarcoat the fact that we never really were invited and welcome, but we are very excited and energized about inviting and welcoming folks. We want folks to get around that campfire so we can start having conversations. And once we start having conversations, mike, we're going to find out we've got more same-than-differences. Man, that's just golly.

If we can just still it down to that, then life would be so much better.

You think about this. I play football at a pretty high level, right? Well, I've been on so many different teams and things of that nature, whether it be high school, college and beyond, and this is the thing I try to tell folks is that I don't know any team that's been divided in anything that's ever won never. So I just believe that when you're unified and you have good talent, you find yourself in the winning circle. And if you don't want to, who argues with unity? Who argues with having unity, particularly in spaces where we don't have a lot of unity? And if you do argue with that, then you probably don't want to see a more unified outdoors.

Yeah, no, I'm with you, so it's not just the people that you're going to talk to, but some of these experiences, because you have a lot of different, varied experiences. I just love to hear some of the feedback that you get from them, maybe some of the aha moments, or they finally it clicks and they get it and they're like this is what you're talking about, roby.

Yeah, let me tell you. So we are actually going to film this in the next three weeks. I had an opportunity to fly out to Missouri and I was speaking at Bass Pro Shop at Missouri State Parks. We brought along a videographer and my 13-year-old son, dylan, came along with me. It was Dylan's first time hearing me keynote. Now, if I backtrack a bit, dylan was one of the reasons why I started this company. Dylan and I went around, we actually drove around the country. We traveled around the country for three months. In those three months we only saw one black family camping at 49 campgrounds. We had actually visited on a three-month trip. We went to 20 states and so to have Dylan on this trip to hear me keynote for his first time, hearing me keynote at a very monumental keynote, because this keynote is actually used to promote our Unity Blaze course Well, the videographer who actually videoed it, he filmed it and he said he had watched this film because he was editing it. He edited it and he said he watched it 10, 20 times and he said it was watching the film is what and here in the keynote over and over is what made him understand why it was important for him to invite he's a white male to invite somebody that didn't look like him in the outdoors and he invited a friend of his to go camping and once he heard the keynote, once he heard the reasons why it was easier for him to get to the what, when, when, how and how to invite his friend to go out in the outdoors with him he is an individual who knows the outdoors, he knows camping he never had a second thought about going, but he never thought that it's why his friends did not go, why his friends did not go. And when he, he sent me a text message with a photo of him and his friends standing outside of a cabin and he said you and that message and your company was the inspiration for me to go out and actually invite this person to go camping. That is what we, as a company, want the folks who love this lifestyle to understand. We can do this one person at a time, one campfire at a time period. I absolutely love that.

That's the ticket, man, that's so good. You know. True confession on my part. Sense. And it does happen when you edit. So every time I edit these, these episodes and you listen to it over and over this, I mean it. Just it gets into your bones. It just gets into your soul, you know, and you kind of remember. But shortly after that I started to notice more Like in a not in a way, that made me want to go up to somebody, just because I want to say oh, I'm glad you're here if it's a person of color. But there was a genuineness that was there, but there was a difference in understanding of what it actually took for that person to get into the outdoors, and I think that that's the thing that made a huge impact on me, Earl. So two small instances at the very same place really kind of drove this home for me. Number one Kai and I were just getting out it was just he and I you probably remember my son we were just going to go camp and went up to the baseball player.

Yeah, the baseball player, yeah.

So we went to Piscot Mountain and we camped and, as you know, I knew just because I've done it that, ok, this is recreationgov. I got to make all my arrangements online. I have to go through all these things. But then I noticed this black guy and his girlfriend were coming in and they didn't know what to do. They didn't know what to do and I sat there for a minute and, to be honest with you, I was like I want to help but I don't want to cross that line if I don't need to. So I just kind of slowly got my ticket to the side and just kind of watched things unfold. But I took for granted that I just knew to go to recreationgov. This person just wants to go camping and they're out there going camping, and so that was the first thing that kind of got my notice or I took notice of. The second thing is that there was young, it was a family and there must have been five kids. I think there were five kids, so one more than what we have, and Kai and I were sitting down in our campground, was a little bit lower and the road was up a little bit higher and we can kind of see him and we can see him coming, and they couldn't see us from where we were. But, earl, the thing that got me was the conversation. It was like the first time that they had land. It's like they had landed on the moon, yeah, but it was so cool and the reason I say that it was the awe and it was the wonder, and all they were doing was walking down the road, yeah, man, and so every single one of the kids were just talking. I don't know if it was one family or if it was a couple of families and all the kids, but they were seeing things for the absolute first time and for me that made my whole weekend. Obviously I was there with my son, but those two instances for me were like this needs to happen more.

You know, mike, let me tell you, when we started this company I don't know if folks notice or not, this is probably the first thing I'm saying publicly but when we started our company Black Folks Can't Do, and we first shouted out our company or via social media, you wouldn't believe all the emails we received, the hate emails we received from our company about our company. It was our name, our company name. There were so many people sending us email and telling us what are you guys doing? You're trying to divide this country. You're always talking this black stuff. You're always talking black, black, black. You're always bringing race into this thing. I knew, right then, those folks number one. I knew they couldn't read very well because they didn't understand what Black Folks Can't Do mean Black folks already camp. I see Black Folks Camping all the time. Well, I knew they were lying. Number one when they said that. But our company says Black Folks Can't Do. We know Black Folks Camp. We know Black Folks have Camp, will Camp, and our camping, our job is to get more Black Folks to camp and enjoy the outdoor lifestyle with any and everyone. We don't want to build a more segregated outdoors than it is right now. The outdoor industry. The outdoor lifestyle is one of the most segregated in the world, almost more segregated in churches, beautiful salons, barbershops and funeral homes. I tell folks so when you know the why. This is why we had to create this and this is why we educated the people that sent us all that hate messages and all that kind of good stuff. We educated them on the reason why you hadn't seen folks in the outdoors and why we had to do this and why it was so important. It's because we want other families to enjoy the outdoors and experience what that family experience that you saw. I remember. I never forget the first time I went backpacking. It was one of the most incredible things I've ever done and I never thought I would do it. I got a chance to see some things that were so incredible, so amazing, and it came over me and I bit the bug and then I became a backpacking junkie.

You are that now.

Yeah, and it was so incredible. But backpacking and camping and being in the outdoors and hiking I always bring it back to life. You started the bottom of the trail, you maybe started the bottom of the mountain and whatever your ability is, whatever it may be, whoever you are, no matter your race, your age, your gender or your ability, for some reason you're at some point. You either gonna walk up more or you gonna go up more, and at some point you either gonna stop right there or you gonna get to the summit, and normally there are not a lot of folks at that summit, and sometimes life is like that too. For whatever reason, folks for whatever they don't get to the top, whatever they don't meet that summit. To see that and what I found myself doing in that space, I found myself doing a lot of crying. I found myself doing a lot of smiling, a lot of singing on the trail, and when I get to the summit, I look at that as man. I got to the summit. For all those folks before me, all the folks that look like me or don't look like me, who have never gotten to the summit, I hope that I was able to. They can see it through my eyes, man. I hope they see it, because there are millions of folks that look like Earl that have never, never, ever, ever thought about going and enjoying the outdoors for rest and relaxation. There are many folks that look like Earl who were never invited to enjoy. There are folks that look like me who had generational fear, lack of knowledge, and what we're saying is is that we can actually usher a group, a race of folks, to enjoy what they already pay for, which is 640 million acres of public land. That's right, and so I just believe that as a lifestyle, because I'm an outdoor lifestyle and I love it. Right, I love backpacking, I love RVing, I love it all. I love every part of the outdoors man.

So have you noticed? Or I mean so I have. I don't wanna project that on you, but have you noticed the fruit of your labors, like, are you noticing more? I mean, I know it's not all Earl B and Black folks camp too. I mean y'all are the trumpet you're sounding is huge and it's loud and it's wonderful and you're changing lives, there's no question about it. But it's really cool because I see other groups that are kinda coming in, kinda to the space too, and same heart, and I don't know if it's just because I'm noticing that more, or I'm thinking Black people off road.

Okay, yeah, yeah, I know the staples, staples, yeah, yeah, staples and tents, yeah, staples and tents, yeah.

Staples and tents, yeah, so there's a lot of really cool things and groups that are coming up.

They had an event man, I think it was canceled though it was it was, yeah, I have so to answer that question. Though, to answer that question, hearing that doing COVID before COVID, it was nil Because we as, again, we at the time we weren't really talking to the consumer at the moment, we were really just really getting data. We had to get some data so we can figure out how to fix the issue. Once we were able to calculate that data, we then went to the people we really wanted to have a conversation with, which is the industry. But then COVID hit and Black folks started going in the outdoors a lot, but it wasn't because we wanted to. We went in the outdoors because we had nowhere else to go. It took a disease, basically, to get us out there. Well, we also saw something from a data perspective is that 70% of those folks who started to camp and enjoy the outdoors doing COVID or they weren't returning, so they didn't love it. Something about the experience just didn't clear. Well, a couple of different things. When it comes to camping, it's rare that you go one time and say, oh yeah, I'm gonna go back again. The data says that 86% of children who love the outdoors as adults grow to love the outdoors as adults. Their parents take them in the outdoors. Well, most of these folks that are going in the outdoors a lot of times their parents really weren't taking them. It wasn't their parents taking them as much. There were a lot of groups, a lot of clubs, a lot of things of that nature. So, they weren't getting that repeat feeling, and so I believe that there are a lot of folks that did stick. In regards to the outdoors, everybody recreates differently too. Just because a person doesn't camp, that's fine. Folks can go hiking, waterfall chasing and all these things. That's great. The thing that I think that traditional lifestyles do not understand is that folks who have never really enjoyed the outdoors and don't really know what the outdoors is, they don't really know what it means to hang off a cliff or go hiking nine miles or go scrambling Although I did that the first time, it was great but most people won't do that. They don't know the filter water. They don't know what to do when they see a bear they don't. Folks don't know to take at least some snacks with you and some water and be prepared. Nature does some funky things. Sometimes it can rain today and it can look like it's raining and sunny all day, or vice versa. People, this is a lifestyle that has to be cultivated. People have to understand this lifestyle, and this lifestyle shouldn't be hard either, like going in the outdoors and joining the outdoors lifestyle. Go have a picnic, go sit down and eat some sandwiches with your friends, but sit on the ground. These are the things that I think that folks are missing when it comes to encouraging people to get in the outdoors. We try to make this too hard for folks, and that is what makes the attrition so 70%, because everybody doesn't have to recreate the same Right. Right, that's right. I like RVing too.

Yeah.

No, I like it all.

You do, there's no question about it. I like it all man.

I like everything, except I had nothing in rock climbing. I did a little bit what I did a little bit, but that ain't my thing. Man Natty hadn't gotten you out in there rock climbing yet. No, it ain't my thing right there what I tell you I like backpacking and I tell you why is because I like, but I like a certain type of backpacking. I like a long trail, I like going long distance with a little boom, boom, like a little boom, boom, boom, meaning the elevation, and I like to get to a summit or a waterfall.

I gotta see something.

You know what I mean. I can't go through all that and don't see nothing.

I'm with you 100%. So, yeah, it's all good man. Yeah, that's good, All right. So it's making a big impact on your family, obviously. So, you're already doing some things when you all are together. Your son, I got a chance to see you do the keynote speaking. What does it take now?

You know my daughter loves the outdoors much more than my son. My son tends to be a more traditional athlete, right, and he's getting a little bit older. Now my daughter though, she's taken to it because it's become a challenge to her. She's 10. She's become a challenge of two things she likes to wear the gear, she likes to wear cool things. But what I noticed also about her, she likes that summit. She wants to see what's up there. You know, to have my daughter join me on camping trips or keynotes and things of that nature, to watch her see me in action, is pretty dope. That's cool.

Yeah, it's pretty dope man.

You know, Mike, you said something earlier today. You know I'm going to turn the interviewer to the interviewer. Ok, you know you said you saw that family out there and those two families and things of that nature. I'm happy that you experienced that, Because what happens is that now you know, perhaps the next time you see that it'll give you the empowerment to go over and say listen, you guys need help, Let me help you. Can I help you with anything? You will find that those folks will perhaps say, yes, I would like some help. I would like to show me this and show me that it brings back to this analysis. I tell folks all the time if you were, if I was driving trying to get to a meeting and I needed to get to the airport and I got 10 minutes to get to the airport and I got to get to this airport, or else, and I saw a family on the side of the road, man, I probably wouldn't stop. I probably would wave and say, man, I know what. I hope. I hope triple A, get them please, because I got to go. But that same family is on a trail and maybe the wife or the husband, whoever else, broke their leg or something I'm not going to leave these folks on the trail. Yeah, yeah, it's that. That's what the outdoors to me, how it brings folks. So my point to you is that when you saw those folks, and when those folks were, you saw them having that conversation. You know why didn't you, why didn't you say they do that's?

a great question. What I love about you is you can always be real.

Like always be real.

So the person who was checking in, I was just like I said, I was just kind of watching it, just trying to see, and you know, there's a piece of me, there's an element, if I'm being completely honest, that doesn't want to be, that doesn't want to assume that they don't know, right. So in my own brain, as I'm watching it, I'm kind of framing what's going on here. You know, I'm just kind of being observant and I don't know if I would have been as observant if I hadn't had you on the show and I hadn't had to talk about the honesty of all this stuff, but I think that's kind of part of it. I think for me, the thing to kind of get over is to not assume that they don't and then be brave, yeah, to go in those kind of situations and say, hey, you know how if I help you, yeah, I noticed you're trying to check in. But I think it's kind of that. I think it's honestly if it's going back to not wanting to assume that they don't and the other part of that is being excited that they're out there.

Yes, you know, I'm glad that you're here.

But I don't want to make any false assumptions. So that's really the truth.

Well, I tell you this, then this is a good training moment, a teachable moment, a conversation moment. I always tell folks, if there's nothing wrong, I think, then walking up to someone in a space that you know well and introducing yourself and saying hey, my name's Earl, my name is Mike. I know these trails well, I know this area well. I just want to make a how about you? Have you been here before? And when they tell you no, that is. Or when they tell you, no, I've never been here before, that is the invitation. That's good, to welcome them to a space that you know better. And I think it doesn't matter your race, age, agenda. We all have the opportunity to do that. And that right there will take out the element of should I or should not, because when you introduce yourself with anybody and you start having conversation, normally that person will tell you, particularly if they say I've been here before. He say, well, good, enjoy yourself, man, it's great, it's a great trail, yada, yada, yada. Or maybe you know, but if they've never been there before, that is your opportunity to share with them how incredible a place is. That's good. That'll take that anxiety or whatever it may offer you, man, Just introduce yourself like you would anywhere else, anywhere else, anything else. I mean, you know, you're a baseball game, football game, mall, anything else.

Yeah, I know, I love it, I love it. Thanks for asking that question Right on man. Yeah, because I think that probably changes my paradigm a little bit of just saying you don't have to assume that they don't know. Just go up and say hi, just make a friend, make a friend man. That's what you just said.

Well, we just believe that's the best way to get more folks in the outdoors. See, we believe that this is not hard. We believe this is not rocket science. We believe that this is an easy approach. The hard thing is for folks actually to do it. We're here at the Outdoor Economy Conference, right? What I love about this conference is the economy conference. I love that because I believe that folks shouldn't be ashamed of making money in the outdoor industry. As a matter of fact, I think we have to do that to help fuel advocacy groups that actually are on the ground actually driving this. What I love about this is that we all are here for the same reason. And because we're here for the same reason, it's easier for us to talk to one another. It's easier for us to have the conversation about how's your store doing, how the product selling in your store, how's the product quality, how the things happen. And the twine in that conversation is how do we get more people to buy our products? How do we get more people in the outdoors? How do we actually focus on being more inclusive? How do we focus on just making folks want to love the outdoors? And then the next conversation what are you doing to make the outdoors more inclusive. How's that going? What does that feel like? What does that look like? And then it goes all the way to the next level of the conversation, which I care about the most. How many folks individually have you invited and welcome into the outdoors that don't look like you? How many people do you know that don't look like you, that potentially could be a candidate to enjoy what they already pay for? This is what I'm trying. I'm mission, what we really want to do. We want to make this easy for folks to have amazing conversation. This is what I call campfire conversation being able to be in an environment where you all are dealing with the same elements, you all in the same space, you all are trying to get to the same goal and being able to break that mode of communication.

That's the ticket. So the thought just occurred to me, and I don't know why I've never asked this question before, but you keynote a lot. And so I know that a keynote can be. There's some commonalities that are in all. Your keynote addresses the points that you want to get across. But I'm wondering are these the kind of things like when you're giving the keynote?

I mean, we're getting a little taste of this right now that's what I tell them, that's what I talk about, because, look, black Force Camp 2 was built to go out of business, like we want this whole model to go away. If our model goes away, that means we've done our job. This company was created to get more folks in the outdoors and to have more unity in the outdoors. The campfire is where it is. The campfire has always been a part of our logo. It's the oldest form of light, heat gathering and cooking. I don't care what your lineage is, I don't care what your race is, what your gender is, what your ability is, what your age is. Your lineage came through the campfire. The sad part about this is there are folks out there that don't even know what a campfire is. They don't even know how to start a campfire. They don't know how to put a campfire out. They don't know how to make sure they have a log cabin or a teepee to even sustain the campfire. They don't know this, and so, because of that, there are other folks that do, and those folks, I think we have a duty to make sure that other folks know how to at least start the campfire.

Man so we can have this conversation.

So all of these things I talk about, I don't sugarcoat anything, like I said earlier. I say the same things and I'm proud to say, you know, I've probably done 150 notes via Zoom or in person in the last three, four years and I have not gotten a standing ovation than either one of them. You know. Again, I think it's because we just kind of keep it real, yeah, yeah, we just keep it real, man. Yeah 45 minutes to an hour, keeping it real.

That's right. Well, I don't think you know any other way and no other way, man.

No slides, no anything. We just going to have a conversation. I love it so.

Well, every single time I talk to you, every single time I'm watching what you guys are doing on social and the things you're going through. I'm always encouraged. I appreciate that about you and I appreciate you asking me questions too, right on.

Yeah.

Man, it's been so cool dude to just watch this grow and blossom and think that, gosh, you were one. I don't know what episode it was, but it had to have been Early on oh, first 10 or so. Yeah, we did, yeah, you came on and yeah, and then just watching this thing grow and blossom ever since has been great. We knew I could talk all day. That's right.

And I really want to round this up, to kind of just share a few things with you, mike. First of all, I want to tell you thank you, I appreciate the opportunity to be here to have this conversation with you and talk to you, and talk to your followers, your listeners and things of that nature. Second, I want to tell folks you know Black Folk Camp 2, we're not a perfect company, man. We don't do everything right. We don't have all the answers. We're not looking to be, I tell folks all the time Earl B Hunter Jr is not. I don't want to be the king of the outdoor industry. I want to encourage and usher other folks to be better in this industry so we can be better for lifestyle and so we can be better for everything else. And lastly, this is me. This is my ultimate goal. Well, my life is over, man. When everything I've done on this earth is over good, bad or a difference no one's going to care about what, the inheritance I've left my children, the home, the house, or what I've left them, that in general, nothing. Nobody's going to care about that and I don't care about that. What I want folks to remember about me and Black Folk Camp 2 and our company, our staff, our mission, our message, is that we have changed the world, man, that we help change the world to the point that we were able to help unify a space that does not look like it's unified in regards of race, age and gender, and I want us to know, I want folks to know, that we put everything on the line. We put everything on the line to do that, and we had people like yourself. We had people like Mayby Mountains, mountain, bidsworth, western North Carolina, and we had partners all around this country. I can't forget the folks.

Great outdoor provision company Chuck Mills App.

That guy is the guy. He is the guy and he understands what's going on and he gets it. The folks that in tourism Thomas Sally down at Wilkes Burrow, Michael Applegate down in Gaston County these folks are the folks who reached out to me the day, the day that I walked off that stage in 2019. And they've been rocking with us ever since and I've been telling them. We may not know exactly where we're going, but we're pushing along, with two steps forward and one step back. That's progress. And so, with that being said, you know I need folks to understand. This is not about Earl. This is not about Earl beyond the gym. It's not about me. This is about our children, children, children and when I say our, I mean this nation children, children, children so that our children don't feel like they have to walk on eggshells and not feel like they can go in the outdoors with any and everyone else. We've got to be able to. We've got to be able to end the fact that folks feel afraid and don't have knowledge and don't feel enlightened, and if we're not willing to work towards that, we're going to fail our generation. That's what we're going to do, and I'm not a failure man. That's right at all. So you know, and lastly, in closing, to you, brother, and to all the folks who listen, I just hope everybody have the most amazing day of their life, but I hope tomorrow is better Period, that's it. That's it, man, that's it.

Oh man, that's it. I think anybody who talks to you I know for me, I speak for me. Every time I'm with you and I talk to you, I just feel like I'm just I'm a better person when I walk away from you.

Hey, bro man this is it, we, we, we, we in it man. Yeah, we're in it, man, we we. Our children are counting on us man, they're counting on us to be the best thing that we could be and the best way we know how to be, and knowing that we're not even perfect, that's a good word bro, I appreciate you Right over.

How could you possibly leave a conversation with Earl B Hunter Jr and not have clear eyes and a full heart? I've run into Earl numerous times over the last couple of years, since he was on the show last, and I'm continually impressed by his relentless quest of treating everyone everywhere equally. That message is getting more mileage than ever now thanks to Black Toast Camp 2, which is making a difference in the lives of people across this country by encouraging more people of color to get outside. Keep up the good work of removing generational fears and inviting everyone everywhere into the great outdoors, black Toast Camp 2, and keep gathering around the campfire to share stories and to twist hearts. I'd love to give a special shout out to Made by Mountains, who made this episode possible. This episode is part of our 10 part Made by Mountains series, where we'll dive deeper into the lives of those who call these mountains home and how these mountains have made dreamers and doers, tinkerers and builders, industry leaders and pioneers. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, please consider leaving us a review. It truly does help us reach more people, and if you know someone who also might enjoy the podcast, be sure to share this episode with them. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram and keep those episodes suggestions coming. You can email them to me at mike at explorationlocalcom. That's going to do it for this episode, till we meet again. I encourage you to wander far, but explore local.