Ep 1: F**k Once Upon A Time In The West!

Do you have notes? Do you make any notes about this? Oh, they're on my whiteboard. I'm looking at them right now. Okay. Well, I have papers, I wrote papers, so I'm probably going to hear them, unfortunately. But Oh, well. Yeah, it sounds like something you do. Yeah, it's the 21st century. Sean, get with it. Okay. You wrote on a whiteboard. That's not 21st century 20th century, doing the little notes on the computer. Yeah. Like, what are you talking about? Well, I could have used the chalkboard. I could have

done that. What you don't do even have a chalkboard? Do you? Yeah, I do. Of course right underneath the whiteboard. You pretend this shit Jani you pretend to shit Anyways, let's get let's get to this. Yeah. All right, folks. Welcome to fuck your opinion. A movie review podcast where my friend and I Eonni will go about watching movies. Yeah, maybe write this shit down next I have something written down but I'm spontaneous. You know? This is why I don't get my jobs you know you just rejected from Trader Joe's by the ways by the way, guys. Thanks. Well, this logging doubts I should tell people I want them to know. Exactly. You know, what's the worst part? The worst part? But afterwards I was feeling really down about it. So I went to that Trader Joe's and bought a bottle of wine. You showed your face there? I immediately after wasn't me it was like two hours after yeah, that's pretty pathetic. It was and I bought the cheap the Charles Shah wine. The one Oh no. Like the three. Oh no. The thought that three buck Chuck wouldn't get a $10 Charles just a three buck Chuck. Hello. Hello. Hello. Welcome to fuck your opinion a movie review Podcast where each week my friend and I Yani will be trading off picking move. No, we don't need you. We're going to be each week we're going to be trading picking off movies, where one on one one of us is going to pick a movie that we really love. But we know that the other one is going to really hate and then we just debate it and we discuss it and we say you know Fuck Fuck your opinion. You know? That's that's the Hi, Jani Pontus Koto. Here we're in it. We're gonna get to you in a bit in pieces of shit. How would you go whatever. Let me introduce you first. My name is Shawn. The better half of the two and joining me is do you want to introduce yourself? You asshole? Hi, this is Jani Pontus Scotto. Okay, we didn't need I don't really know how to introduce myself outside of just being Shawn's friend. I best describe us as Joe buck and ratso from Midnight Cowboy. Sean Of course, being rats. Oh, and I'm Joe buck. I'm fine with male prostitution. But at least I'm not a cripple. You really went there. You really went there right away. Okay. I Well, I agree with our relationship in that regard. You know, I I definitely want to go that far. I mean, first of all, I mean, let's just be honest, I don't know who would pay for my friend Jani. He's pretty ugly. If I'm being honest. I'm about on par with Jon Voight. I think. At least David Krumholtz skinny David Krumholtz. You know that the elf from the Santa Claus the one that looks like he's 20 years older than the others. I haven't seen that movie and you haven't seen the Santa Claus? Not since I was a kid. Yeah, how many times have you seen jingle all the way though? Three times a year jingle. Okay. We might do that movie later because I know we can't because I'd love to. But for the jingle all the way. It's an amazing film. It's so much fun anyways, so let's get to this podcast. instead. You know, you're just saying stupid shit. The movie that we pick this week is once upon a time in the west or at least one of my favorites. Yani picked it because I hate it. And I am in love with it. I think it's one of the best Western films ever made, transcends the genre. It's right up there with all of the you know if I had to say, if I did take a survey of my 20 unread, unprejudiced, best films, unbiased best films, I'd say it's definitely in the top 10 Yeah, and me I am definitely on the other end of the spectrum. Because while I love Sergio Leone, his films, particularly the good, bad, and the ugly is one of my favorites of all time. And all the stuff you did with Clint Eastwood. I mean, I head over heels for. But once upon a time in the West, I remember seeing it the first time like on that lionni banjo, I'm like, oh, when I was, I think in high school, and I was like, Oh, I don't know about this one. And then I watched it again, I want to say a year or two ago, because I was like, I remember not being a fan of it, or I don't really remember why. And then I watched it and I theater. And specifically the Chinese Theater. So is like this big, amazing experience that I was really hyped for. I'm like, Oh, this is gonna be amazing. And I was like, Oh, yeah, now I know why I don't like it because I just found it incredibly slow. And I'm like, I want to go to sleep right now. And I had the exact polar opposite experience. I watched the watcher for the first time when I was about 16. probably watched it once a year since then. But my adoration for it really piqued when I saw it, large format, just like Shawn on the big screen at the Alamo Drafthouse Ritson Austin just just a magical experience Robin theaters Oh, you said the Chinese Theater so I think I'm allowed to you know, it's a relatively it's it's a relative acclaim? Yeah. You had to go for specifically the rights unit. You're like oh, no, fuck that South There are six I think there were like seven locations at Austin now people need to know okay. It's a good it's a good company you know it's a good it's a good i'm not i love the album. I enjoyed the experience. It was during an It was during a Western marathon we saw searchers Rio Bravo. And then once upon a time the West that is a fantastic lineup. We're not talking about those other ones we're talking about once upon a time in the West in there, but yeah, I fucking hate you. You hate me. It's just get started. I want to be done with this. Wait, we got to do so folks. How we're gonna go about doing this is one of us is going to summarize the movie. But Jani decided, oh, let's do it. Twin cost and figure out who's going to actually be doing it. So yeah, okay. You keep saying toyne cost by the way. Oh, God, you need to say coin toss. So let's get a clean. Okay, let's get it clean. So, folks, enough of our bantering, let's go back and do it. let's let's let's do this. backtrack. backtrack. So how we're going to go about doing this is first we're going to start with a summary. And a summary is going to be provided by we don't know who but we're going to do a coin toss to figure out who does it. Jani. Do you have a coin? You know what I do? But it's out of reach right now. It's on my dresser and I've got headphones in. So I can't reach it. I don't even I gotta find one now. Ah, ah. Oh my gosh, it's such a big deal. I'm gonna get one. Hold on. Okay. Okay, after about three minutes of searching for a coin. Between the two of us. I finally found one. I found the coin. Okay, we have a coin. We're gonna toss this coin and figure out who was gonna do this summer. All right, heads. Heads me tail, Shawn. Alright, and flip. Tails. Let me see it. Let me see it. Yeah, I could. I just picked it up. That's that's the tail. Okay, okay, and show it to you anyway. Oh, no, it's fine. It's fine. Fine. I believe you, I guess. Anyway, okay, let's, here's my summary of the movie. A woman moves to the west, and does almost nothing throughout the entire movie. And then people just kind of walk around, look at each other, and sometimes shoot each other. She for one reason or another. Okay, that was Sean's very unfair and oversimplified synopsis of the film. And yeah, that's my summary of the movie. Jesus. Do you I can't wait to trash the next thing you love. No, no, no, we're doing one. We're doing one introduction of the film. Okay. All right. So let's talk about this. First, let's talk about well, we kind of just talked about our impressions, right, like our introduction, so unless there's something else you want to say off the bat, I just want to say that Sean's opinion of this movie is absolutely wrong, unequivocally wrong. Before we get started with this. It is my opinion. Everybody you should know that Sean unapologetically loves Top Gun. I love Top Gun is amazing. Don't Yeah, we'll do that being said we'll do let's move on anyways. Yeah, I mean like, Listen, if you like this movie, I don't think there's anything wrong with liking this movie. I just don't. I just really, really do not care for it. We're gonna break this down into a couple categories and just kind of disgust from there. So first story. What do you think of the story of the movie? Jani? Well see what I love about once upon a time in the West, more than anything else, more than all the other Leoni films maybe with exception to once upon a time in America. And as a guilty pleasure. Duck, you sucker. And my name is nobody though he was uncredited for that. What I love most about this film, it's my favorite Leoni plotline. Because it's not just a MacGuffin Chase. See, around the time, once upon a time the West came out, we only started moving away from the traditional MacGuffin chase that made him so famous, particularly in the good, the bad, and the ugly, which is about three hours of three men walking through the West, looking for gold. Now, that sounds a little simplified. It's not Shawn. No, it's not that much. Yeah, that's basically the movie, but you're trying to shit on a movie that I know you like? No, I do like it. I do like it. But he this is this is my reason for why I think once upon a time, the West is a superior. That's not the argument. The argument is, isn't why I think it's a superior film. The argument I'm going to make is why I think it's such a good film, and why I think a slower, more measured plot really services, this movie, particularly what I like about it, it's about a movement. What I like so much about once upon a time the West, is that it's a film that represents a movement in a particular point in American history, from lawlessness into structured society. And you can see that through the three principal characters and the villain. You've got Jill, the not just a woman who moves out alone, but a prostitute from New Orleans who's trying to get out of that lifestyle, and move up from that period from that position of lawlessness. Prostitution was still illegal back then. So technically, she was breaking the law. Then you've got harmonica, whose entire story throughout the whole film is, as we as we see it unfold, I have a question is shooting someone breaking the law? Yeah, it is, you're not letting me get to it? Well See, the thing is the principal character, the one that you think is so boring, Jill, is the one who's actually trying to abide by the law throughout the whole film, whereas the men who continue to shoot each other and kill each other are the ones who can't fit into the, into into society. That's what the point of once upon a time the West is, it's about a movement from lawlessness into society, wherein those who aren't willing, or able to abide by the law either have to die or are forced to become removed from it, which is how it ends. It ends with Cheyenne, Cheyenne, dying, with Frank dying and with harmonica wandering off into the wild. And it's not because he's being forced out. It's because he knows his time. His place is gone. Yeah, I mean, sure. When you put it like that. I'm not I'm not gonna say it's not like it's not trying to say that stuff. And it's not pointed in that regard. But another there's another spin on is just Jill, is just every Oh, she's she's a woman in them. She's a woman in in the Old West. Yeah, a realistic portrayal of a woman escaping her past in the Midwest with no training in any sort of gunplay. I'm not no skills outside of being a prostitute. I is forced to thrive in the middle of nothing. Almost every scene she's and she does almost nothing. And the men around her are all active and doing things to a degree. They're still kind of boring, but she's just kind of they're just, they'll talk around her and she'll be like, Uh huh. Or she didn't want she weighed more like, she's just kind of like a prop to a degree. The power to Jill's power comes from what she doesn't say. That's the thing. I feel she's she's behind everything she is picking up while essentially picking up her dead husband's legacy and trying to keep it alive. To a degree that's the thing. At the end of the day, she comes out on top over everyone else from what she does. Which what you're calling nothing, and I'm saying is I, I, I, I think that if you wrote this down as like a short story or something, I mean, it almost feels like, if it was a novel, it would be way more fascinating because it's such an introspective movie. But as far as the actual actions, she takes, like another comparison of a character. And I know it's not a perfect comparison, but of a character who says very little in the movie they're in. But it's also the lead is Mad Max. So and Mad Max Road Warrior, Max, what has like 16 lines or something like almost nothing. But he still has a lot of action. He's still when I say Actually, I mean, he makes decisions. He's doing things not necessarily fighting action, where I feel like, throughout so much of the movie, Jill is either passive, or when she's doing things, she's not really doing things. I mean, even the scene, or she's just kind of wandering around the house, I understand the point to it, I understand why it's pointed and important. But at the same time, I'm just so like, do something. I'm just so frustrated, that nothing is going on right now. And that's something where I think if it was written where it was a novel, if we were like really getting into the introspection in our head, it could be something really strong and powerful. But as far as the film is concerned, especially considering everything that's led up to it and the slow pace, it's just like, Oh, my God, I can't stand this right now. Well, she's meant as an obvious foil to, and I'm forgetting his name, the the railroad bear on the one who's trying to reach the ocean, I always forget his name. I hated him. But

oh, my gosh, he's okay. It was more she's a perfect foil to him where they're both they don't even in a sense. No, they don't meet. But they're, that's the thing they don't meet, they're not supposed to meet. They're two completely different characters who don't even know they're at odds with one another, but their assignments simultaneously and in their own ways, crippled, they can't reach the goal of their own ends by themselves. So they have to pull strings, the only differences whereas Jill doesn't force people to go out and kill for her that she has to work using what skill she has, which sadly enough, in the end, I don't remember what year it is, I think it's like the 1860s 1870s prostitutes not going to have a lot of say, in anything she's going to be she's going to have spent, I don't know how many years maybe the last decade of her life, having sex and trying to please men just to make a living. Now you've dropped that woman in that setting, what do you expect her to do? Realistically. And that's the thing about once upon a time the West, it's the most realistic portrayal of the actual West, that I think Leoni has created. I will agree with that. But I will also say, part of what I love about Leon a is that he's not the most realistic of directors. I mean, he so much of what he does is stylistic, so much of what he does, it almost feels like I watched the good, the bad and the ugly recently. And one of the things that really fascinated me about it was just, I felt like I was listening to my grandfather or somebody kind of just like, sit down here, kiddo. Let me tell you a story. And it's just like, everything didn't necessarily make sense on a like, realistic standpoint. But at the same time, I just felt like I was in the hands of our being led by a just a fantastic storyteller that just knew how to tell everything so perfectly every every little bit, you know, almost like a Greek myth or something. And like a Greek myth. For most of his movies, up to once upon a time the West, your heroes, your characters are villains. They're all entirely static. That's where once upon a time the West made a change. You have characters with clear goals. I don't have definite definite obvious character arcs. I they change, I think they they change, whereas in the good, the bad and the ugly, blue eyes Blondie honcho, what is his name, and I always forget it's blue. It's just Blondie. But it's like blue eyes, blondie. Oh, it's Angel Eyes. Your eyes is the baddie. No, but what is his name it? Okay, we're getting off. But my name is Joe. Isn't second one. laundy honcho on show. It's not macho, it's macho, cuz it's the arm I said, honcho, not it's not honcho. honcho. Is macho i know i'm saying i agree with you. I couldn't remember the day and then it is blonde but the thing is that big is In all of his films leading up to once upon a time in the West, the main character is this stoic, cool guy whose begins and ends as the exact same person. He's just the wandering gunslinger. Yeah. And that's, that's cool. But that doesn't connect to you as a person, you can't really imagine having a conversation with that person and getting to know them. Whereas with all the characters in once upon a time in the West, particularly Jill, particularly Cheyenne, and even Frank, to an extent, you all see them make a clear and definite change throughout the film up until either their death or the film's ending. I mean, and that's what it's it's dynamic. And that I think is what's important in a film is that you have dynamic characters, before you focus on stylization, or anything else, you have to make sure your characters are not even necessarily accessible to the audience. But they have to be intriguing, and human.

I just don't feel I feel like there are a lot of wasted potential where Yeah, sure. Their introductions are interesting, like who they could be. But then again, they do a whole lot of nothing throughout the movie. And then you're just, I'm not saying you need that necessarily that MacGuffin, or something to drive them, you know, to do things. But one of my notes I wrote, these characters are while they do have goals, their goals are not clearly stated. And so like, the end of the movie, and because of that, I just, I'm like, What am I even watching you for? What are you trying to do? What are you going out doing? I mean, for example, harmonica, I know. Because I've seen this movie a couple times. I know what his end goal is, and why he's doing what he is. But I feel like if I was watching again for the first time without knowing that, and want to be like, Oh, this, his mystery is interesting and unique and more like, what the hell is this guy doing here? Tell me, Shawn, when you meet somebody, unless you're speed dating, for instance, when you meet somebody, do they tell you everything about their life story on that first meeting or doesn't take doesn't take time to learn them to understand who they are as a human being? I'm not saying you don't need to take time to learn who someone is as a human being. But I feel like there is there Blondie, there's a distinct difference between your whole life story versus like who I am in general, and what am I like in a movie you need? Say, this is who I am. And this is what I want. Now, you don't need to explicitly say that in words. But I didn't know why he was there the entire time until the end. And like, right, you need to have some goal to get somewhere. I mean, like, and that's why I think like with all the characters, they're just kind of meandering, and they have things that they are trying to do. But because you don't have that MacGuffin. And again, I'm not saying you necessarily need that MacGuffin, but because you don't have that I am just left wondering what the purpose of any of what they're doing is or why they're doing it, you know, and while you how you describe it, I think is a very good description. And if the movie was clearer about that, I think I would have liked it a lot more. But for what it is, you know, I just was not a fan. So you know that harmonica is looking for Frank. In the very beginning. In the very first scene, you will learn that harmonica is looking for Frank. Yeah, but that you know that that's established, and there are gunmen sent to kill him upon his arrival. So that tells you almost everything you need to know is that harmonica is a threat to Frank Frank knows it. He just doesn't know why and neither does the audience. That's a mystery. The mystery that's more or less kind of your MacGuffin, except it's actually attached to the character. And it's not just some superficial, hidden stash of gold in a graveyard that three guys are trying to get. That's just one mystery. That's one of like four plotlines occurring simultaneously. And they don't need to all be gargantuan and breadth. They're all small and personal to the characters in their own way. And that's what I think that's where I think you're wrong about it seeming like there's nothing going on. Because there's nothing necessarily huge, immense going on and people aren't constantly shooting each other while they are saying they need to. That's kind of what you're saying. No, I'm not saying you need action. Because this it's a very, it's a very contemplative film. It's very, there's a lot of open space, like, like the desert. There's a lot of open space for you to think and try to consider what is happening and that's I like this film so much. And what this comes down to is the difference between what we like you like, I'm not gonna say you like constant stimulation, but you like to be stimulated when you're watching a movie. Yeah. And I like to think and try to predict what either what's going to happen, or allow what is happening to stimulate me instead. I guess just to go off of that, specifically, I don't like to predict what's going on, or what's going to happen if I can predict what's going to happen. I'm usually a little bit frustrated. Yeah. But imagine or try to remember that feeling when the rug that that pre established rug that you've, you've put together you know, you've taken all your threads, and you've, you've woven it together, and you're standing on it, and you think, yeah, I'm pretty confident this rug is not going to be pulled out from underneath me. And then it is, yeah, but then it is. And you know what that moment is? That is that is your hanging scene from once upon a time in the West. That's the scene where you realize that Frank caused harmonica to hang his own brother, that's your rug. I don't think that's a rug, though. I think that's a natural conclusion that doesn't, that's not that twisty? No, it's not a twist. That's the other thing. It's not a twist. Because you've seen it, you've seen it blurred out, mind you, but you've seen it, but it's five or six times throughout the whole film, and you just don't even know that you're seeing it. You don't know that every time harmonica hears Frank's name or sees Frank he's thinking of the exact same thing. But it's not even that it's more see it. You just don't know what it is about seeing it though. It's about when you say pulling a rug. Usually that's a subversion of expectations to some degree. I mean, it doesn't need to be every time but to some degree where I will revenge story more or less, it's pretty standard of a Western Oh, you killed my brother, I'm gonna kill you. Something like that. But he did it so differently. Leoni did it so differently, showing you the last thing he sees before he kills his own brother not and it's Frank shoving a harmonica into his mouth saying she didn't do it differently. And then I'm not saying like that wasn't well done. But I don't think it's a pulling the rug underneath me moment where I just go. Oh, I think it definitely wouldn't when it's aided by Morricone score that that electric guitar that just creeps up on you and then Brad, okay. Yes. With that, that that musical motif? I think it is absolutely a show stopping moment here when you read when you realize what's happened and then the pull away that huge pull back where you see that the mazes in the background and the stormy sky. And it was just oh my god. I'm not saying it wasn't well shot. It looked very nice. So it's the most It is one of the most perfectly composed moments in cinema. Definitely, in westerns, it is the most it is the most magnificently composed moment in any Western and I will stand by that. Give me one moment you think is better? Most than the good, the bad, the ugly? Oh My what? What you mean the part where the three guys tried to shoot each other and two guys shoot the one guy instead. But one of the guys who shot the other guy didn't actually shoot him because he didn't have any bullets in his gun again. I thought you like Oh, so exciting. No, I do like it. But if I'm going to have to defend if I'm gonna have to defend her Monaco's reveal to you. I have to tell you why I think it's better. Maybe I'm not doing a great job doing that. It just sounds like I'm sure we got it. Okay, I don't think we're gonna come to a conclusion there. But I want to segue into another hot take that I thought about because there are some things I do like about this movie. It's not all God I hate this thing. But I will say Morricone score oh my god no finish. Yeah. of his westerns, one of the weaker ones. But oh my god, bye bye. Bye. My absolute favorite part about it and here's where you're gonna hate me. And I think you know where it's coming. Cheyenne theme is amazing. I love Cheyenne theme I like Cheyenne, Cheyenne. Honestly, I like Cheyenne more than I like any other anti hero character in any of leonese other way better to go is way better well you know if I got to choose my white guys playing what looks like a Hispanic guy I'm gonna have to go with Cheyenne now to go is so I don't want to get into comparisons just because we should talk about focus on this movie but to go to goes to lead with that movie. And he's just such a fascinating character with a lot of there's a lot there's a lot more depth to tuko there's a lot more depth to go and good, the bad and the ugly then there is in Cheyenne once upon a time west or at least more backstory Cheyenne is I like them but at the same Time, he's kind of in a weird middle ground, I think where he almost acts as an Hear me out, he almost fits in the role of like the comic relief character, but he's not. Like, he's not that funny. He's more of what he's just more rugged and rough. But in a normal movie, he would be the other thing, and there is enough little bits about him that almost fit into that, but are not. And so it's kind of like, it definitely threw me off. And it's something where it's just like, especially with theme, too, it's just like, I wish you or something you are not. And as far as what you are, I like you. But I feel like you don't serve as much of a purpose as you like. But that means that like, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. But I mean, he has some great moments like the train scene is really good when you know when he Yeah, no, I'm not disagreeing with you. It's really good. It his introduction, a fantastic introduction, because you hear him before you even see his. Here's what I'll say I really wanted to talk about this scene. So his introduction, like the first two minutes or so, where you hear the shoot out. Then he walks in, everyone's looking at him. And he he orders a drink. And then as soon as he starts drinking, you see the handcuffs on him? That was brilliant. That was great. Yeah. And then the rest of the scene was just like, Okay, this is way too long. That was so okay. You don't like you don't like the part where he makes the guy shoot his chains off. You don't like that at all. You don't like his interaction with harmonica, none of that you like, I thought it was okay. But it felt, again, with I know there's my complaint with a lot of the movie, but it just was just way too long. And I just don't think it justified itself enough. I don't feel like the moments there. Or as good if they were stronger beats and moments, then I'd be like, Yeah, sure. That is great. But his interaction with harmonica was okay. His interaction with that guy, oh, shoot, Oh, you don't play it could have been like, and I know this not Leoni style Corbin show much more bad. It's not that I could have been so much more bad as I just it wasn't worthy of the mount of time it took. It just wasn't and was okay. I'm going my counterpoint to that. And it's what makes this film. So much more grave is the time that it's given. And maybe I shouldn't say great, maybe I should say gravitas? It's given more gravitas. And you can tell it is because it's given more time. And that's the way that you can tell that you're looking at an important moment or an important character is when you see the amount of time that's passing at any given scene that's that Leoni metes out to them. That's the big thing when you when you see that there's a very slow scene you know that you've got an what feels like a slow scene, but it's actually this process this very ingenious process of cultivating fear and uncertainty which is a huge part of the lawlessness of the Old West and you'll see that in most western films is that when there's when you've got this moment where someone's about to get shot the stamp the Mexican standoff the quiet before the storm breeding that uncertainty is integral to having tension Yeah, and because that's there for it that's there for every single one of the main male villains except for I'd say, like, the the railroad bear and again, I wish I could remember his name. I never can but in my notes, right here, it's Oh my god. Or not that Mortimer now mortimers isn't a good bad, ugly shit. Okay, well, while you're looking at, I know it, I'm just going to say Frank, Cheyenne, and harmonica. Each one of their introductions you get four plus minutes of screen time. And with all of them, you hear them before you see them. You hear harmonica, harmonica playing before the train rolls away. You hear Shannon's gunshots before he walks in the door, and you hear the gunshots and I think they're quail but I'm not really sure what they are flying off before you see Frank gunned down an entire family. And those first, those first three introductions in the film, take you up to I think about the 35 minute mark. Okay, here's what I'll say to that. First of all, railroad barons name is Morgan. Morgan Morton Morton Morton, Mr. T o n. I believe the crippled railroad Baron. Yes. So that's my main point. And I'm glad you talked about those because that I'm actually on the opposite end where? Yeah, I do agree that you do need that tension. And it's good in the first scene. But then when you do it again and again, and again, I'm just like, I'm sure it was. It was putting them on a level, I'm sure it was the intention, yeah, that we have one after the other. But you're telling me, we watched 20 minutes of the opening of the movie, we're 20 minutes in. And we've seen maybe three minutes of the characters that are continuous throughout the rest of the movie, and everyone else is dead. I understand. That's the that's what's so great. You think that mcbane are going to be introduced as vital players in the field, and then they are gunned down father to son while father, teenage son, teenage daughter, and then I don't know, he must have been like an eight year old boy shot in the face by the bad guy. It's something where it says, again, if you describe this to me, and I would say, Oh my God, that's brilliant. But watching it, I just it's irony. It's Oh my god, it's supposed to be like that. Leo, the whole point of this film, aside from showing what I've been talking about, which is a movement into structured society. It's about upsetting all of these other tropes and expectations that had been not necessarily plaguing but just omnipresent in westerns for the past 30 years of cinema, and I applaud that, but I it's, it's, it's an ironic love letter. I guess that's it's leonese ironic love letter to the genre. Okay, sure. I just, I was just checking my watch. And I and I mean, that might be partly because I have seen this a couple of times already. But I think if we had one or the other, if we had the harmonica introduction, or if we had the Frank introduction, but having them back to back is just a tough pill to swallow. That's the I love that. You're introduced to the well, I wouldn't say they're the main characters because again, I think that Jill is the real main character in this film, but the two I guess, main aggressors, we can call them like the or the, the the warring factions, I guess you could say because harmonica and Cheyenne to it, to a degree wind up becoming the muscle for Jill, the unintended muscle for Jill, whereas Frank is his own muscle, and Morton's muscle introducing the most powerful, I guess, let's just call them the most powerful factions in the film, back to back is a really smart decision. It's really smart, because you don't really necessarily always hear about the villain until the first act break. I think that's pretty standard in a lot of films, particularly westerns is that you don't know who your villain is, until maybe the inciting incident or maybe at the absolute latest, the first act break in a lot of ways, though West, once upon a time in the West, is also structured exactly like that, too. I think if you don't meet Frank until maybe the 14 or 15 minute mark, granted, this is a two hour and 45 minute movie. And that might be a little, little early for an inciting incident. I don't really know it could be you could definitely qualify the killing of the MC Bains as the inciting incident. But you're introduced to the idea of the villain, Frank, before you see him. He's mentioned he's not even he's not just heard. before he's introduced, he's talked about to, you know that there's a frank, you don't know who and you also don't know that you're going to be introduced to him in the very next scene until he shows up. And that's just fine. That is a fantastic moment. That is a fantastic reveal that had happened so quickly. And you're not, you're not expecting it. It totally upsets everything you could predict. I think as a first time viewer, and I yeah, as a first time viewer, if I was a first time viewer and the 60s watching this in the theater, I would probably be like, holy shit. But I was like that in 2012 when I saw it for a store 2010 I think yeah, I mean, I don't know Henry Fonda as well. So that twist wasn't crazy to me. I think I'd probably read about what happened beforehand. So it was never he had never played a villain. I don't know if he'd never played one. But he had almost always consistently played the good guy, the upstanding lead, and he showed up to set that's the cool thing. A little bit of a little bit of a fact here for people listening. I think it was Oh, come on. I think this is really cool talent. He showed Henry Fonda showed up to set the first day with a beard, full grown beard and brown eyes, brown eye contacts in surgery, he only took one look at and said, No Shave. The beard, take out the contacts you need. That's the piercing cold blooded, cold blooded blue eyes that I want. I want the same Henry Fonda. I just want him to be a killer. He's like, I didn't hire brown eyes, bitch that that's what that's what he said. In a town shot in the 60s, this movie was so popular not necessarily in North America, because it has a long runtime. And apparently by the 60s, American audiences couldn't really take that, even though not four decades earlier. They were watching films that were four plus hours. Yeah. Okay, all the time. But let's just forget that. Thanks a lot American advertising. I like mine at this film was this film was so popular in France, that in some theaters it ran for over two years. Well, you know what? I don't Shawnee care. Team point. Shawn 14 point 8 million people have the 50 point 8 million population in 1966. Went to see this film. Okay. Okay. It was so popular. And I really hope you don't cut this because I think this is such a cool it just shows how influential this film was on the culture. This film was so popular in France that it caused a duster trend. You know that like the tan dusters that Cheyenne gang war? Yeah, it was so popular. That department stores had to hang signs on their escalators telling people to watch out for their dusters, because they kept on getting because there were so many people wearing them. They got kept on getting caught in the escalators every time they were going up to the next level. Now I'd watch that movie. The French French guy just came but pulled down by a duster. Now that's add that to the credits and you know, then we got a perfect film. Shawn as of 2019 it's still in the top 10 most attended films in France. I mean, I guess that's interesting. Sure, but, you know, still not my cup of tea. That's fine. I just want you to know it's a lot of people's cups of tea. I mean, maybe you're more of a maybe you're more of a coffee or a bottle of Gatorade heated up on the stove sort of guy but Haha, thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah, you live in squalor. I know you do. Cocaine guy myself, you know? Yeah. Well, who of us are apparently the French? I'm forgetting now. Is there anything else we want to talk about? Yeah, so we talked about directing a bit. I mean, writing I mean, we didn't really talk. We talked more about kind of the whole the story and all that stuff, but we didn't really talk about acting. So as far as the actors are concerned and their performances, what did you think? I imagine you like what you like, yeah. I you know, everyone played to the strengths of their character. Jill's character is supposed to be quiet, she doesn't have a lot of strength and she has to work to what little strength she has. Granted, this is it's a spaghetti western. So a lot of what they were saying on set wasn't necessarily what was said in the movie. We both know that that that happened is standard practice, you know, I'm gonna tell my story. You probably know this one. What is this about once upon a time, the western good, the bad and the ugly? The ugly. Okay, go okay. So apparently we're in like that I guess this is I feel like one reason why I there was more tension I guess between the two which ultimately made a better movie in my opinion, but Clint Eastwood apparently said specific dialogue on set. And when they went into the recording booth, Leone, he wanted to change everything. He's like, Oh, I want I want this line dialogue, that dialogue and cleanliness was like I said, this line, and I'm going to be doing this line. So he just stuck to that original script as opposed to mucking around with it. And I'm like, you know, I applaud that and I'm happy you did that. Because I don't think it changed all that much. I don't think the script was set on set and what was provided an ADR Sorry, sorry, I don't have to impose a fucking duster. Killing French guys story. I don't think it I don't know if anyone was killed. I didn't research it that thoroughly but somebody dusters got caught in escalators for it to be an issue. Someone definitely just got flipped on their head and was just like, well, ouch. Okay, but anyways, getting back to the actors. You know, I really don't have anything negative to say I think the most compelling character in the whole film to me is one you didn't like more on and I think the actor I don't remember the actor who played him. I don't remember the actor's name. I'll Can I yeah, I want to say something after you're done, but I think it was a very compelling performance, especially for a villain. It's so rare that you see a villain as sympathetic as him, especially in westerns. To the point where you don't really necessarily when he when he dies when the character dies spoiler alert he does. You feel bad for him? Yeah, you feel bad for him. You feel bad for the guy because at the end of the day, well, all he was trying to do was see the ocean before he, before he passed on. I think he had multiple sclerosis or something like that. He was just trying to see the water before he kicked the bucket. It just so happens that he was attempting to do it through very violent and illegal means, you know, what would have made this movie? If Oh, my gosh, what? As he was dying at the very last scene? They did. It's a Mad Mad, Mad World. And as he died, he literally kicked the bucket. Like, have you seen that movie? Just keep going. Have you seen that movie? Have you seen that movie? No. What movie? It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World. No, it's a great 60s comedy. And in the opening scene. All I don't remember the actor's name. An old comedian is dying on the side of the road. And at right as he dies, he literally kicks a bucket. It's a great, it's such a great gag. And like, that would have been so perfect here, especially what the whole water and everything. But I'm not laughing. You would laugh if you've seen it. But anyway, in this movie, any so out of place that would have made it a 10 out of 10. But I I get what you're saying I just because the character does so little throughout the movie, it's hard to even like associate him as a villain. I mean, he just doesn't. He's just kind of crippled, he's medically restricted to the space that he's living in. I don't mean action as far as like, oh, man, I got to start shooting people. But I mean, he doesn't even know. He's just kind of very dry. Frank's own men to turn on. That's the only thing he does really. He's pernicious. He's selfish. She's so selfish. I mean, he has introduced he he gets introduced so late in the movie, he has like, what like three or four scenes maybe that maybe a little more? I think you're under estimating. But you're not wrong. He's not in a lot of scenes. But But I think a big part of why I like that character so much is that the performance is so compelling his performance. I don't I don't watching it. I don't believe for a moment that what I'm seeing his performance, his performance is really good. And I like the idea of him wanting to see the ocean. I just wish that there was more for the character to do I wish he was in the movie more if he was going to be that, you know, prominent, but something I did want to mention. I don't know if you noticed this and I could be wrong. is the voice actor who voices him the same as the one who does Mr. mcbaine? I feel like it's the same one. The one that voice the villains in the first $2 trilogies like the head guy, I'm pretty sure it's the same or not the same actor just the same voice. Same voice actor. It's definitely not the same actor when I was listening to McBain earlier, like Oh, that sounds like I'm blanking on the character's name. But it's the one who's in a fistful. And then for a few dollars more, the lead back guy, I'm like, oh, he sounds like that. And then I was listening later to Morton. I'm like, oh, he sounds like that. Wait, is that the same voice actor again? I would not be shocked. But I think that's just how a lot of gruff men sounded in the 60s. No, it was it's a very specific, you should you should have done your research, we'd be able to talk about it now. People would be interested people. Well, if you're listening, and I'll look it up, maybe I'll do a fact check or something. With only this specific comment after the fact once clarify when you're editing this clarify when I'm editing I'll do like a little footnote. How do you do a footnote? It's audio. Well, like an audio footnote. I'll be like, Hey, hey, this is Sean with my audio footnote. After I want you to announce it that I want you to announce, say it's an audio footnote when you do it. Okay. Okay. Well, whatever anyways, final verdict. How do you feel about the movie? Did you like it? Did you hate it? Shawn? This movie? Yeah, I hated it. Well, Jani or How's about? How about we just pretend to be each other talking about how we think the other person felt about the film. Oh, well, oh, I'm Shawn and it was too slow and there wasn't constant or wasn't constant stimulation from I wasn't leaving my oh my god. Now I did. I just Fell It was very slow is very meandering. I felt like this movie. Leoni reached a point where Yeah, he was transitioning you, you were talking about this earlier between it was transitioning from more static to dynamic characters. Well, I guess that's one way to put it. But I just that's exactly what I agree the change that I, I would say, his style became a little overindulgent. In his previous movies, there was a balance. Or I felt like this one just went too far and a direction that I just wasn't a fan of. And I'm like, this is too much. So yeah, I'm not I'm still not a fan, I would say this time watching it again. There were things that I had previously not been a fan of that. I enjoyed a bit more. But I will say, and you're gonna hate me for saying I did not get through it. And one viewing, I had to have two and a half sets to watch it. And I think that definitely helped because when I was watching a theater, I just could not stand it. Where when I was watching it here, I feel like the first half is definitely just like it just sucks so much air out of the room, that even the stuff that I enjoy in the second half, I just couldn't hide. Like cannot bring you back up. Or taking that pause. I'm like now Okay, I can I enjoy some of these bits a bit more. But still not really changing my opinion. Well, you don't that's actually honestly, that's the least I could ask for at least you found some things. You appreciate it? Yeah. Yeah. Be angry about that. There was the line when after the auction, remember that remember the auction scene? Yeah. Well, I guess during the auction, when he walks Cheyenne out. And we have the music and then they have a little banter about Judas betraying him for like, you know, less money. I wrote down the line. I said Judas was content with less out of context. That doesn't sound great. But like in the moment I'm like, Oh, this is banter. This is really clever. This one and I do like banter a lot. So I think that's why oh, you had to a flight harmonica was first exchange with the guys sent to kill him. We're about we're a horse shy. And then harmonica responds with, he brought to too many. And it kills all three of them. I liked it. But at the end in the back my head in the back of my head. I was just like, this was so much better in a festival. That scene, can we do a grown cow? We do a grown cow. When you're editing this together. I want you to tally the number of times I grown in response to the scene where he's just like, I need three coffins. He shoots the guys over the mule, the mule. The mule dialogue is great. He shoots the guys come back and says my mistake for I mean that kind of math joke. About Yeah, that's, that's just supposed to be humorous. But it's the kind of the same idea here. I mean, I guess this is less humorous, but it's still like I'm showing off I am with I just feel like they're on kind of how far into the film. How far into the film was up before we heard that joke. That make it for joke. That was about the beginning. Was that wasn't the introduction further into the movie? Sure. Yeah, that's different. The characters established at that point. The first the very first thing harmonica says is you brought to too many. Sure it's not supposed to be humorous. It's it that establishes the character because before he draws before he kills these three guys. It establishes he knows he can I I'll give you that. Sure. But I just still think. And I know a lot of white. So my complaints have been in comparison to leonese other movies. But this has been a really unfair. It's hard not. Oh, no. Yeah. Anytime a director sticks within a genre, which he did. Yeah, I mean, I think out of all the features he made, maybe three or maybe less two or three weren't westerns, by definition. Yeah. Once upon a time in America, and honestly, I can't name anything other than that. Maybe one of his earlier roads or whatever. I'd never seen it though. But the time it really I mean, we're also talking about a guy because he did that who defined Yeah, the genre as it entered its second era. Its classical era, but it's also in gold. That era. Yeah. And but we're also saying like, Yeah, he defined the genre then. But honestly, he kind of defined the genre as it is now. I mean, I know it's tough. No, no one's no one has come along and made that a better Western. But I mean, even since that, but the thing is even when we talk about Westerners these days, you're like, just the public's thought about it is the theme of the good the bad and the ugly the shootouts from those dollars trilogy. I mean, like, that's how you what's changed, it's become a lot less funny and a lot more bleak. Yeah. And like, I really like those movies too. I like Unforgiven a lot. I don't know how you feel about Unforgiven given but it's like the pole. It is the polar opposite of everything Clint Eastwood was doing with Leoni? No, and it's obvious and obvious. It was it was great for that. And I watched Deadwood recently. That was fantastic. So I definitely It's not that I need that constant. stimulation. I mean, Deadwood is an unforgiving or not like, action, action action. They're both pretty slow and forgiving is pretty slow. Yeah. But I like that. I enjoy that. But I don't know, I guess with once upon a time in the West. It wasn't. It almost felt like it wasn't in this middle ground where it wasn't such a it almost still existed in a similar universe. And maybe that's because it will you know, style. But I just I almost felt like it was going on one thing and just wasn't that thing. Or with Clint, Clint Eastwood's Unforgiven, it was just so drastically different that you could not even compare that to as opposed, you know, you know, I'm saying, No, I know what you're saying I think he was stepping into because, because I think because he drew so much inspiration. When he and they were like two or three other screenwriters. I think it was two, when he and the other screenwriters were putting the film together because they drew so much inspiration from the westerns from from the early westerns from everything from like, I think it was the 30s up through the 50s because they drew so much inspiration from those films, naturally, the product is going to a little more closely resemble the less I want what am I say? It's going to resemble the less punchy action heavy quality Yeah, so so characteristic of his earlier westerns. And I think that makes it that I think is a huge part of what makes it so much more realistic of a film as opposed to the good the bad and the ugly even though the good the bad and the ugly is set during the Civil War in actually in the characters actually interact with players in the struggle, I still think once upon a time in the West is a more realistic film. Yeah, for sure. I feel like all all the comments on this video are going to be fuck Shawn. All he's doing is comparing this movie to the good the bad, the ugly. Well, that's not fair. Because I'm I'm kind of trashing on good in the bad and the ugly in response. I mean, I don't know this is this isn't I don't know if this was gonna really fly with everyone listening. As much as I hope there's subsequent Well, here, listen, podcast listener. Here's what I want to say. Part of the reason why I am comparing the two so hard, is because the good the bad and the ugly is literally my favorite movie of all time. I've seen it a bunch of times. And is for me, just about everything it does is perfect. So to go from that movie to this is just such a emotional letdown. And for me emotional like there any emotions present in the good, the bad and the ugly. Outside of two goes interaction with his brother. That scene is brilliant. It's the only time anyone expresses emotion in that film that scene. What is like going back to what you're talking about characters like I want not only is that scene amazing, but the scene I feel like none of this is gonna make it out. But the scene, the scene afterwards, when he's talking to Blondie, and he just jokes that off is so perfect. It's so good her moment and I'm saying I wanted more of that. And I in the good, the bad and the ugly. And the good, the bad the Yeah, now there's a great Lee Van Cleef beating the shit out of Blondie, that is a great moment. And there are numerous numerous allusions to that in future films. Just to name One off the top of the top of the head Reservoir Dogs when I was at White, or either way, when the when the cop gets his ear cut off and the music's playing in the background anytime someone is having the crap beaten out of them anytime they're being mutilated, that stems directly from good, the bad and the ugly. Yeah. It's It's interesting. I mean, like to see your point that you were saying before where this film is so popular in France, it's just every I feel like when Leoni is talked about here in America, it's almost always for the good, the bad and the ugly. It's pretty. I mean, I would say like probably ranking wise, good, the bad and the ugly once upon a time the West then his other westerns, you know? Yeah. Would you agree to all agree with that? Yeah, I agree with that. It's different here. It's it's different. We we like a different style of film. For something a little bit faster paced, even though good, the bad and the ugly is like, what maybe 10 minutes shorter. Yeah, I mean, but it's also not super fast paced. I think a lot. There are a lot of set pieces. There. We go through a lot of locations. They are constantly moving throughout the whole film warehouse. And once upon a time the West. There are maybe four or five. Yeah, I will say. I did find it kind of funny when I was thinking about this time where I'm like, Okay, how do you want up an epic graveyard shootout? Oh, well just go in the backyard. Go back, go. Go go in the backyard. We're the foundation of society of a new society is being sprung. Yeah. We talked about this real quick. So harmonic that's shot. No, no harmonica, shoots Frank. And just walks away. And then I'm just thinking, Oh, he doesn't just know he doesn't just walk away. You know what he does before he walks away. What does he do? He shoots Frank. Frank doesn't know who he is. And then he takes out his harmonica. That same one, Frank jammed into his mouth as a kid. Before he hind his older brother takes that harmonica and jams it in Frank's mouth. And with Frank's dying breath, he realizes that he has been avenged, no, I get that. But what I'm saying is, he doesn't just walk away. That is what I'm saying. That is such a huge moment. And you can't undercut I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to undercut that. But he does all such a monumental won't care of all that. And then he walks away. And he just leaves the dead body for Jill to clean up like hey, Jill. How you doing? Oh, yeah, for just chill. It's not like there are hundreds of guys work. I got a railroad less than 200 yards away. Oh, is that why she goes out and Oh, shit. I got a body on my hands. Hey, guys, here's some lemonade. Can you help me?

Can you help me bury this guy? Or this? You know, what I'm saying is Frank. Frank was the last piece he was the last piece that needed while the second to last. that needed to be eliminated. Before society could really grow there. Okay, he was that last root of lawlessness that had to be wiped out.

And then, well, maybe third to last, because now that I'm thinking about it, Cheyenne just dies. Here's the thing. harmonica leaves dyad. It's like he get I don't understand. So Cheyenne gets shot in an off screen scene. Then he's just kind of like doing this thing. And he's like, oh, by the way, I got shot like, hours ago, and now I'm just gonna die. And why I like that there's there's a dignity and that death. It's the most dignified death is Cheyenne, who is supposed to be our anti hero. He's the the tuko equivalent in this film. He's not a good guy. And you know, he's not from the very start, but they're like seeds of goodness in him. From the very start, you know, he's not a great person. And if he does get caught by a stray bullet, he kind of deserves it and whereas harmonica Well, he acts in response. That's harmonica. His whole thing is he has to kill in response to what's going on. He doesn't start the killing off willy nilly. Yeah. He has. He does it out of self defense. Okay. Cheyenne doesn't know Cheyenne. I mean, in his very first thing, he kills the people who are escorting him. I don't know how many it is. It's probably two or three but he kills them just to get away. He's a he is an actual criminal. Okay. Do you Now wrapping this up, and this is a sign out that I'm going to cut. Do you want to give a letter grades number grades or you just want to not great? I'm like, I have no preference. But I didn't know that we were grading do we want to? Oh, no, i think i think i think it's up to the person who we, it's up to the malefactor to grade A malefactor. The person who's who's not a fan, okay. Okay, so folks, now what we're going to do is wrap this up by the person, what we're going to do is the person who is not a fan of the movie who did not pick the movie is going to give a rating for the movie, because we all know that the person who loves the movie is probably going to give it a 10 a 10. Or, or who's who the person who loved the movie is probably going to give it a 10 out of 10 or something great. So what am I going to give this movie? Yes, yes. What are you going to give it something good, fair, I bet. Five or six out of 10, something like that. Up says, Thank you, you piece of human garbage? Yeah, you know what I think? Honestly, I think maybe we should include a part where I say, I think we should begin with we should bookend it with our ratings. So I would say like, Oh, I'm gonna give it like a solid 10 out of 10. And that the end Shawn's gonna come back after our discussion if he's going to give us his radio. Yeah. Okay. So I'm gonna record mine real quick. Alright, so folks, what we do, beginning and end of every one of these podcasts is the fan. The person who chose the film for the week, who knows that they'd love the film they give the rating. And then after we've had a little discussion, the the disinterested party I guess the one that the chooser knows what hate the film, or at least dislike it comes in and gives their rating. So like beginning ending, whatever, cut that part. Thanks for that. Great, I'm gonna say. So for once upon a time in the West. Okay, so for once upon a time the West because I chose the film and I'm going to lot it a lot throughout the course of this podcast. I'm just going to go ahead and give it a solid 9.5 out of 10. That's right, throwing a decimal point, but not a 10 not I don't think it's a perfect 10 out of 10 exists, but this is pretty dang close. Well, folks, I am not going to give that reading because I'm not a fan. So I'm going to give this movie either a five or six out of 10 for cinema Gervais because it look nice, and I had some good moments. But besides that look nice. Hey, he's a cinematography in any Leoni. Phil. Oh, no, no, I still get Oh yes. Yes. No, fuck you. Anyways, so that is fuck your opinion. Thank you for listening. And we'll have more episodes coming soon. Next week, we are going to do a movie that I am picking. That is, drumroll please. Bad Boys. Oh god. Yeah. Why? Well, I knew it's either going to be bad boys or transporter two. I haven't decided which one. Oh my gosh. Why transporter to love transporter. But I need to let's just watch. Let's just watch Craig to while we're at it. I need to go on a Jason stay. rewatch transporter too, because I remember loving it. But I might not feel the same way. So I want to rewatch that first make sure I still like it. And then I'll sign that to you. If not, it'll be bad boys. I'd rather watch. I'd rather watch an hour and a half long loop of Jason stay than dancing in that leopard print. thong. Then watch transporter to Okay, well, folks there you have it is either going to be transported to or bad boys. And yeah, thank you for listening. And nonie you can go fuck yourself. You can go fuck yourself too. Alright, that's a wrap. Okay, I'm cutting