Ep 16: F**k The Diving Bell and The Butterfly!

Hello this is Sean and welcome to fuck your opinion a movie review podcast before we get started please make sure to like follow subscribe, write a review of this podcast wherever you are listening right now and please be sure to follow us on Facebook Twitter or Instagram all those are linked in the description enjoy the episode launcher down through that so way now do abajo Are we all French going on today? Oh well zoom on put to me my god to aim lithium. Hello and welcome to fuck your opinion, your favorite mover view podcast with yours truly Sean and my dick have a co host Eonni Eonni Eonni here Oh, wow, are you there? to interrupt me? He actually stayed your course. I tried to I attempted to I did my I did my darndest. But I was paying attention to something more interesting across the room. What's more interesting across there's a dead bug and bug the dead bug is more interesting than what's going on. Then, you know not what's going on in itself in and of itself that the podcast that's relatively interesting. Whenever you you know sees the light in this kind of schizophrenic dialogue that we have. It becomes less interesting and so therefore the fly. What do you mean by by sees light? You mean just me talking? Like Is that what you're trying to imply that anytime I talk? Oh, sorry. I dozed off there for a second. You were saying something? You were in the I wasn't talking right there you doze off with you saying something. You got you bored yourself, which is what you do consistently. You bored yourself? Because I think I said this in the past. There are many times where you'll talk and I'll just zone the fuck out. And then I'll listen to it later on. And I'll be like, Oh, sorry. You're so ignore sleep apnea. But sometimes wakes me up where you finish talking yet? I hope so. No, I wasn't finished talking. I want to do what you do and just restart my entire train of thought. When you interrupt me. Christ. Oh, hi. Hey, are we still doing the podcast thing? Oh, no, we're done. We both said this movie's a piece of shit and tests are done. Good job, Johnny. I don't remember that. So let's just start anything. Yeah, no, I mean, very beginning. Hi, my name is Jani. Who are you? I don't know who I am I I forgot why I had a stroke. Let me let me que un wink wink wink. So that's a no wink wink. Wink wink. Okay, that two two double winks means to knows is that a double negative meaning Yes. Wink wink, wink, wink wink wink. No Yes No Yes. Again that cancels itself out this is bad this does it know that this is a good spirit. I don't like this. Can we let's just get started. Yeah, let's get started. Hello, and welcome to fuck your opinion. Your favorite movie review podcast with yours truly Sean, and a piece of shit. a literal piece of shit. I know you can't see his face, but it's literally you know the shit emoji. That's his actual face. Jani pata Scotto have anything to say there Yanni? Oh, sorry. Were you addressing me? Yes. Yeah, you were talking about someone that sounded like I wasn't acquainted with. So I kind of just let you do your thing. And then I heard my name being mentioned. What's up? Oh my god. You know, I started reading this book called anti social. I forgot what the author's name is. But it explores the social media age and how that relates to essentially white supremacy. And one of the characters or one of the people mentioned in it is a guy named biani. And I said to myself, wow, another guy named Jani. This The only other one I've ever heard of. Sounds like I thought it was a stupid ass name to begin with. And I said, Oh, I guess it only goes as stupid as people. I'm pretty sure there's also a basketball player named Jani or Yanis. So you're insulting to great people today, and possibly more And maybe this third guy, maybe he's an expert on something in this book you're reading and not one of the white supremacists. I'm just gonna assume he's a great guy. So let's say three plus iadis. You've insulted right now. He's definitely one of the white supremacists. Well, I, you know, I where's the audio clip? I'm not saying you didn't send me any documentation of this. I didn't see proof. I'll send it to you. No, don't actually don't don't actually do that. I don't want to read it. Okay, cool. Great. Cool. Well, yes. Welcome to our podcast. This is a movie review Podcast, where each week Yani, and I pick a movie that we love that we assume that the other one is going to really hate this week. What do we watch? Gianni? Well, this week, depending on how correctly I referenced the film's title last week, it's either the butterfly and the diving bell or the diving bell and the butterfly. You're getting a good chance. Why would I get confused? It's a little bit I feel like it's easy to confuse it's, I know No, I think it is. I think it's perfectly it just sometimes I feel like if the title flows a little bit better when it's the butterfly in the diving bell, as opposed to the diving bell and the butterfly, some people would beg to differ. And that's fair, they can make a fair argument towards it. I could have been wrong in the last episode for everyone else who's also a fan of this film. I apologize. My bad I didn't mean to insult you so terribly. But that's the one we're watching the the Jean Dominic Bobby Bauby, I guess. Is it really a biopic I don't know. What would you call it? Yeah, I'd call it a biopic. So what this movie when Yeah, I've never seen this movie. And I, I had no idea what it was about, but I've heard about it throughout the years. Now what I thought this was was a romantic dramedy, directed by Noah Baumbach. I think that squid in the whale, I think I confuse it with the squid in the whale, which I've also never seen, but then thought I would like to know our bond back movie. Let me finish. Let me finish I'm insulted semi finish. I wasn't sure if it was that or I want to say that Tyco a TD movie Eagle versus shark. I think that's what it's called. Possibly. Essentially. I was thinking it was one of those two films. Well, actually, I thought it's the no bomb back movie. But the no bomb back movie. I constantly get confused with the Tyco a TD movie because he's titles but it's actually neither of those and not even fucking close to either one of those. So wait, when you said that you were putting off watching this movie last in the last episode? That you and you figured you would hate it. You thought I was referring to the bombeck movie? Yes, that's what I Oh, I straight up thought it was that I had no idea what this movie was about. I get into first two minutes. I'm like, wait, what the fuck is this? Oh, wow, this is so much better than I thought that bombastic guy. He's actually got some talent as no one is wrong. No. bombax still untalented, and you watched a good film? I don't think I've ever seen a no bombeck movie, nor do I care too. Yeah, me neither. I'm not really. I don't even want to get into it right now. All right. So Jani. Why do you pick this movie stress and movie? Why did I pick this film? Sean? You know, honestly, while we're working our way through the last episode, which was three fugitives, again, it's about two fugitives and a little girl. I don't know why it's called three fugitives much better. But you know, live fugitive maybe is well, okay, part of that statement is true, because it's a French film. But anyways, you mentioned at some point during that conversation, that you were not a huge fan of French films. And so I immediately alighted upon this film, because it's one of my favorite French films, and decided this was going to be my pick for the next episode. no real reason beyond that, why I decided to go with this film for this episode. I want to interview you. Okay, I'm trying to reject. Okay, so for the longest time, we've had one French listener. And I've always said to myself, why do we have a French listener? Because I, you know, check the stats. On each episode. I'm saying myself who in France is listening to our show, then I found out through some research, it's one of the hosting platforms, downloading the episode, and kind of like putting in it storage. So no one in France is actually listening, or at least that one specific city net one specific listener doesn't count. So we have one less French listener than I thought we had. So that means I can say French people still not a fan. Go on Eonni Oh, I mean, I was pretty much done. I don't really have a spiel for this one. I love it. It's a fantastic film. always cherish the opportunity to watch it again, always get something else out of it. If I ever want a good cry, if I ever want to cry a few times in a two hour period definitely satisfies the criteria to produce tears to descend from my my eyes, but that's a solid film all around. Well, you know, sometimes joy and happiness, they share both sides of the same coin. Sometimes you have to feel wanting to grow to appreciate the other and vice versa. Sometimes you can feel both simultaneously. I think I think I think masochists know how that feels. You're a masochist. Yeah. I you know, it's not contestable. Essentially contestable. Yes. Yeah. But I love this film. I don't think I really give a summary of it until after you've given your summary though. At this point, right. By the way, folks, Shawn kind of dropped the ball this week, he decided that he wasn't going to put together our our little rundown sheet our outline of the of the week's discussion, so we don't really know exactly what's going on here. He said that he wanted to freeform this one. kind of want to get jazzy. Well with it. John's a big jazz fan. So Oh, sorry. You're trying to interject again. You do it all the time. By anyways. You're blowing up my scene boy. Well, you know how earlier when you were snoozing after what I was saying? Well, here's here's the thing that you don't realize with yourself. If I let you just have one, you're gonna you're gonna take up the whole hour and a half. Just boring the shit out of everybody. This has got to be a two way street. A conversation. You're saying something about me? I want to respond to it. So let me fucking respond mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee The more you do this less we got to talk about them. Well, yeah, okay, I'm back. Oh, wow, I suddenly regained consciousness, Shawn, just to pick up just to pick up steam here. What's your summary of this? Phil? Oh, no, actually, before we get into that, because I wanted to respond to you real quick. As to why I didn't do a well, there's actually two reasons why I didn't do a what could you possibly description so easy with? Oh, it wasn't my being busy. It wasn't about being busy. First reason my complaints about this movie are less specific scenes. I feel like if I won at one scene or another, it wouldn't it just want to encapsulate my argument. And the things that I have issues with are more overarching than one scene or another. That's Reason number one. And same goes for likes to. But that's first reason, because I know what you're going to talk about is this movie is very much like a poem. It's very poetic in a sense. So because of that, it, the scenes don't necessarily flow traditionally, most of the time. That's Reason number one. Reason number two, is because this film, sorry, sorry, movie is variable. It's a film, this movie is very personal to me it. So listeners, we can't I can't talk about this without getting into it. So I'll introduce it here. And I honestly don't know how much we're going to talk about this later. But my grandfather had a stroke a couple years ago. And he recently passed away. And while I don't live at home, I didn't get to see or be there for him as much as I wish I could have been or probably should have been. But it's something where my own personal experience. And that's not to say like everyone this is not it's not like oh man, I'm very insular. This only has happened to me. Many people have gone through through this, but it's more so that my my specific experience very much clouds how I view this film. So everything I talk about for the most part is going to be in relation to that. As can be hard to kind of not talk about that for me because that a lot of my issues come from that and is something where I am not entirely sure where if I had watched it years ago, like before, before all that, how I would have viewed it I probably honestly I probably would have liked the movie more if if I had but watching it now I things bother me, but we'll get into it. And I texted Jani. I was just like You know, you're gonna regret picking up this movie not necessarily because I have arguments against it. But you know, like, I don't know how funny This episode is gonna be. because let me tell you it. This thing really brought me down personally, particularly, I mean, in the past two hours, I went on a walk and was listening to the main theme of the movie, which is a great theme. Rainbow theme. Yeah. Very beautiful. But it's something where it's just really crushed me. But, but but devastate you. Yeah, thank you for devastating me, you asshole. Thank you. And that's not that's not a sarcastic asshole. That's like, Fuck you, man. But it's more so it my relation to what the movies necessarily the subject matter again, as opposed to the movie itself, if that makes sense. So yeah, without further ado, my Plot summary. Let me think I had an idea what I was gonna say, I think let me let me remind myself. All right. While you're thinking of that, listeners, I just want to let you know. And I respect everything that Sean said. And I understand how this might have been a difficult experience for him. And he did actually send me that message telling me I was going to regret making this film. Not several hours after that, he sent me a YouTube link to the clip from makin me where the little boy that wheelchair was set flying down the side of the hill into the little into the pond. That's what I want to do to you. You want to push me down a hill? Yeah, wheelchair? No, no, no, yeah. When I push it down, no, no. Oh, no, no, most Sure. This, this is what I okay. I remember my plots this description. This movie is essentially ianis ideal life scenario. He doesn't have to do anything. He just gets to write a book, where beautiful woman surround him. And then after writing the magnum opus of his life, he just pieces out and dies. You know, mono said pretty much the same thing. But yeah, about me. Yeah. What? Surprised? I mean, he just got that pretentious French Air in you, you know? Is this. You? Just your attitude is very punchable attitude. You just, I really want to punch you. And it's not like I'm a violent person. I'm really not. But he just enraged me. Well, but and my other probably Khushi Kabhi Gham. Oh, my God. Oh, green tea, quote, green tea cold alert guys. Think seriously. And think honestly, Yogi? Green tea. That's actually that is that links up thematically with vacation today? They usually link up pretty well, you know? Yeah, because he did a whole lot of thinking to do that film. So they could do? Well, he communicated, there was some communication, which by the way is just you can also blink his eye. But communication. That's what I meant. When I said communication. just fascinating to me, by the way, how how we figured out as well. It's not like that's such a mind blowing conclusion to arrive upon that that's probably the only way this person that person locked in like that with only with use of only one I would be able to communicate, but just to transmit an entire novel and entire work by just blinking your eye. You know, I think I saw it took months, maybe like four or five months to write the whole thing. And it's not even that long of a book, going along with what I was saying before, about my own personal experience. The other thing I want to know before I get to any criticism, here's the thing, my critique on this movie. I wouldn't be surprised if some of it changes throughout the years and on repeat viewings. But I'm going to speak to my initial viewing experience and how I felt. The reason why I say that is because I had no idea going along with how I had no idea what this movie was about. I also had no idea. This was based on a real life person. And all this actually happened for the most part. So a lot of my criticism is going to be something that you're probably going to give a rebuttal. Whoa, Shawn, that's actually what happened. Oh, that's how it happened. You know what, I get that, and I'll probably note that, but that doesn't mean it still didn't bother me at times. So just saying that putting that out there to begin with. Oh, I'll respond to that by saying I haven't actually read the book yet. I haven't. Yeah, I haven't gotten around to it. And I'm not too familiar with the story. The only details that's real when I'm around the world, the fact that it's real, that this was an actual event that occurred in a man's life. And he was, I think dead within I think it was dead within a year, or maybe like a year and a half of it of it occurring and that it touched so many people and that he was able to produce such a work of, of, wow, work of art work of movie. What No, I'm trying to say, work of movie. I'm trying to say it's because I'm trying to convey that I haven't read it yet. But I've heard nothing but good things. And I don't know. I mean, I wouldn't necessarily call this like. Let's just move on. Just cut somewhere. Okay, cuz I've already I've completely lost my train of thought I just stumbled, right. I'm gone. I don't know where I am anymore. Let me just so you know, there's probably a weird transition from what Jani was saying before to right now. That's because he lost his train of thought and couldn't figure out what he was going to say. So like we were mentioning earlier, he bought himself he bought himself so much. He couldn't even figure out what he was going to say. He couldn't even pay attention to his own stupid argument. My mind's just moving at a million miles an hour. You know, I would not in Jean-Do position, Jean Dominic Bauby's, I will not be able to do what he did. I highly doubt Yeah, no, memorize every word of what he was going through every fucking word. Yeah. So I know, I couldn't have done it. I would probably write a children's book. And it would be about dinosaurs that someday without inventing our grade level, they'd be inventing those little, you know grabbers like t Rexes that they'd get those little grabbers so they could like reach out and get the cans on the top shelf, at the supermarket with them without any assistance. That's right, and they don't want to interact with any of the any of the people working at the supermarket. Wow, that sound actually sounds like a step above what you'd normally write. Well, thank you know, what you normally write is literal shit, you take you take a shit. And then you just use that and write something. You write shit on a sidewalk with the shit. That's, that's about you, your level, a lot of your critiques and your criticisms, they really have a fickle spin to them, you know that right? You always bring it back to that. I think Freud would have a lot of fun with you. I think, you know, taxation, I don't have a fixation, what I forgot what her name is, but the crater of that new HBO show like this will destroy you or something. I can't remember the actual title. But she was giving an interview for a vulture and she said, the world can be divided into two kinds of people, the people who are willing to talk about poop, or make poop jokes, and the people that aren't. And you know what? I'm one of the people that makes poop jokes. You know, that's just that's just who I am. And why I'm going to do and I am not. You may ask why you're boring and joke about everything else. What toddler's making jokes about putting racist stuff, you can still make clever vehicle manner matter jokes. I mean, come on. It's every breath. It's, it's not about the maturity of a fecal matter joke is, first of all, everyone can relate to that. Second of all, you can still have clever jokes or relating to fecal matter. And third, it's, it's less about that and more so are you that's something that's not necessarily considered a social nicety. You're not going to necessarily talk about it. So someone who is going to make jokes about that is more willing to kind of experiment and explore with and be more open and honest. At least that's how I interpret that statement, where you are not saying Oh, you know what? Sounds like a versation. To me, it just sounds like you're trying to not talk about this film. No, I'm not you you when this fucking segue? I don't care. Okay, let's talk about this fucking movie. Okay, so what I what actually Yani, what do you what do you like about them? Because that's how we start with what you liked. Well, here's the thing. I when I, whenever I watched this film, I am not able to pick any one thing that I don't necessarily like about it, it would have been easier to just send me an outline to fill out. So I could pick my three like top favorite moments, then pick your three favorite moments. I don't care man. We can still get them all moments, scene scene moment sequence number one. It's going to be the very beginning the very end after the after the credits, where the camera wakes up and Jean-Do's position and he's seeing everything for the first time after he's woken up from his coma is greeted by the doctor. And he gets this one doctor, I don't remember his name, it doesn't matter he, he tells him, he tells him that he's, he tells Jean-Do to think of him as his friend, and continues to say, like, as a friend that you know, and blah, blah, blah, I need to express it. And it comes across that this case isn't of any particular real importance to the doctor dealing with him. Who knows if that's actually true, but Jean, Dominique wakes up. And he realizes very gradually, that he's not able to respond to any of any of the questions that are posed to him. And he's not able to move anything. And in fact, the only thing he's able to do is blink his eye. And you see this as a viewer, all from a first person perspective, every movement of his head, everything that he's focusing on the camera captures from his perspective, so you're forced into his position, you're forced into his experience. And you know, first person perspective, this isn't the first time it's ever been done in cinema. It's been used all throughout its history. It's nothing new. But I think in terms of everything that I've seen, it captured that experience, the most authentically, Shawn, how do you feel about that? Ah, I agree. I thought that that technique was strong and solid. See, like, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. There's just specific things I don't agree with. So for example, and this is a point we had talked about a little later, but you were saying the doctor was kind of indifferent to him, maybe that specific doctor was, but in general, he got really freakin good care. I mean, his nurses were always with him. They were really supportive of him in a way that, you know, because he's a rich, elite guy, he can get that care. So while he's in a terrible, awful situation, it felt weird to me to have like, the greatest nursing staff I've ever seen, in a way that almost was this like dream, like, like these dream like nurses, because it's not like, it's not nurses that Oh, man, I they're almost devoid of personality, in a sense. They, they are more symbolic help. And that's fine. It just frustrated me. I didn't care for it. It never rang true to me, or honest. But that being said, like I said, he had some money, and he was an important figure. So I can understand why he would receive that kind of care and health. That being said, the more so back to specifically the first scene, what I didn't care for, and kind of this was throughout the first 40 minutes or so, which is largely in that first person, I was fine with the technique. I thought that was well done. I just didn't like how they handled his internal monologue. Because it was too dialogue. He he was responding, but not being able to respond. And that was effective, up to a point in the first scene, I understand why it was done. I appreciate it to a degree. And because we're watching a movie, I understand why was something like this, to make it more rambley to make it more stream of consciousness, while more realistic, that wouldn't necessarily work within the context of the format. It's still something that bothered me a lot. So every time he interjected, it just often the lines were to written as opposed to, if you're, if it's your stream of consciousness, if it's your thoughts, it's not going to be as pointed out, it's a sentence of whatever you say. So that kind of annoyed me. What you're talking about when you're talking about the lines in his internal monologue that felt written? Are you talking about the more poetic expressions? Are you talking about? No responses, responses, not the poetic, I didn't feel like that at all. I felt like they were all pretty naturally. They all they're all pretty naturally flowed from him. And I appreciated the fact that they were constant because it was, you know, it just added to his experience it added to recreating Bobby's experience in that condition, but it also reflected how he was changing not just the way that he was speaking and the way that he was acting and reacting to everything that was happening to him. But it showed that how it showed how he was changing just naturally instinctively, to the event to the to the incident to his to his traumas show that he was making a clear and definite change. As the film progressed, he starts out as extremely Curt as extremely sarcastic, pretty embittered about the situation up until that 40 minute mark. Which is about when he tells on reset that when she's doing the partner assisted scanning, and he tells her I want death, Shiva mode, and she gets up leaves and comes back and apologizes and says says that she overreacted, it starts to change you. There's a clearly trackable pattern of change throughout the entire runtime. And that's only really available through that interior monologue. I understand what you're saying. And I understand why the film did that to achieve exactly what you're talking about. That being said, like what I was saying, stream of consciousness and film is something that is really difficult to do. So. Honestly, yeah, you're right, you can't translate it. It's very difficult. It just didn't work for me. And also, this goes off of what I was saying earlier, where I didn't realize this was real. I thought this was a fictional film. So going off my personal experience, it struck me as off and weird that this guy, despite having locked in syndrome, and they establish Oh, but your brains doing just fine. It still struck me as weird that he was just still so on it, you know, like he had no mental. No mental study? Yeah, at all. Like, that just struck me as really strange. Now, that being said, because this is real, you learned that it was real, it makes sense. But my first time watching it, it really bothered me, you know, I and it's not that this is a it's a rare condition. This isn't something that happens frequently. So to go off what you were saying about this, about Bobby being just a rich guy. And because he was so influential, because he was so well, he was able to get special treatment with how rare The case is, I'm kind of inclined to believe that you're more likely to get better treatment for it, because better treatment is required. And also I think at the time, you know, I don't know for certain, I'm pretty sure France has universal health care. I imagine somebody in his position probably still would have had private healthcare. Yeah. But I mean, those even then they probably still would have gotten better treatment than your average cerebrovascular incident suffer. Listen, I can't I can't, I can't speak to if a doctor or a hospital prioritize people with rare conditions, I really have no idea. But what a mayor specifically did, that's the thing this this hospital handled those cases, okay, sure. But what I'm saying is, those nurses brought up several times that he was an editor, they made a big deal out of it. So that clearly was a reason why they were taking such great care of him. You're not wrong about that. Again, this is me having not known it was real. I just that bothered me that going, Oh, man, I'm supposed to care about some pompous French guy, who, you know, he clearly he clearly learns more about life and more about, you know, being a person throughout the entirety of the movie, and he grows. But from the start, and what we see from the flashbacks, he was kind of a pompous asshole. So it's hard to, it's hard for me to connect with him, I connected through the film techniques they were using, but as a character as a person, I didn't really feel for him. One of the things I was thinking about as I was walking today, was that a lot of times we want movies to I mean, why I'd say actually, some of the best movies are the ones that we both really feel for and connect to the characters, as well as see things about in ourselves that we really connect to, to give you a general example, movies that deal with heartbreak and stuff I can really connect to a lot. I will get into that right now a fair amount of heartbreak. Yeah, but possibly dad is part of it. But it's not just that it's it has an element that I can relate to and latch on to personally, but I still care for the characters and I like them independently and separately, of what I personally connect to, if that makes sense. So with this one, I felt the ladder, you know, I can really connect to a lot of it personally. But divorce though that like just the character not hugely and I need to stress. I don't think unlike for example, Cold War. I don't think that this is a bad movie. I think it's a pretty good movie. I think it does a lot, right. I personally have issues with it. But objectively, it does pretty good. And I can see people really loving it. I mean, like Okay, I understand why you'd love For example, now whose favorite movie? This is? No, whose favorite film is this? Jason momoa aka man, it's his favorite movie. Read that on IMDB. Is that was that in the trivia for the in the trivia section? Mm hmm. Favorite movie? That's, I don't I'm not really sure why that would be listed as a trivia. Cuz he's aka man. He's aka man, buddy. Oh, okay. Yeah, man. Mmm. Oh, Jean. Dominic Bobby, we're right next to the sea there. He's Aqua man. He would jump in the water do some swimming around the Atlantic and eventually wind up on the shore where he would see him right. I'll make sense. Now. You know what, I made a bet. It was very nostalgic experience for him. I got Yeah, he would. He pops out on the shore says says Jean Jean Do was john doe, john doe. He ays john doe. I'm Aquaman. I'm ere to help. And then the ssistant caregivers like what he fuck is going on? Aquaman akes him out of the chair. bviously, he can't do anything bout except blink. So he's just linking like crazy. Aquaman jump into the water with him, bring him down to the ocean and heal him. And he's all better. But h hasn't written his book. So w don't get the book. But he' better. S he's probably suffered some sort of brain damage due to the to the pressure of being that far underwater. Don't you remember? aka man, they got the bubbles and shit. They got the air bubbles, man. I gotta tell you I paid half of a half of a half of attention while I was watching that movie. Hi, I'm Jani. I don't pay attention to find movies. But the pretentious ones. I just rewind every little fucking detail. And I go Did you see that little thing? That's just so forgettable? Well, you can infer this even though it's just implied. And how did you not get it? You're so stupid shot. How did you not fucking get that Gerald divorced his wife in the Full Monty. You fucking moron. I won't take any of that back. You know? I You did? You spoke a lot of truth right there. And that? Sure. Ah, it's also my truth because it's how I feel about you. But I will say that Patrick Wilson was good in that movie. And literally no one else was. So that's my piece about Aqua man. What was your first I didn't even like Aquaman. But yeah. Oh, what? Why? Why would you even say you you have fun? You call it fun. It wasn't fun. It was a headache. And we're not talking about awkward, but we're not talking about that too. to collectively, just hate at a later date. What was one scene you really liked? I liked two scenes I really liked. We can talk about either or segue into one or the other. I really liked when he's I what I'm assuming are quotes from the book to kind of that more poetic scenes where we see nature and stuff. So there's one scene where you see the butterfly emerging from its cocoon. Now well, I don't know if it's the same scene but with the iceberg. Is that the same scene? The iceberg falling? I don't think so. Right? That's from before the all the other stuff that's like when he's still kind of depressed. Yeah, I didn't care for all of them. But some of them really worked for me and the iceberg, one in particular. Because if I'm remembering right, he was talking about how he has so many regrets if he had the gratitude in the moment of what the gift he was given of life. He He's just so we're grateful that he couldn't cherish it in a moment. And now that he doesn't have his mobility. It's really sad and poignant. And I wish I'd written down because I don't remember exactly what he says. But that in particular was really strong. But yeah, anything want to chime in? Oh, yeah, that's honestly that was going to be part of that. Related to that was going to be my my next favorite scene. I love that the beauty of that moment, the poetry of it, like you're saying he's talking about how he wishes he could have appreciated those those moments in the moment, instead of letting them pass kind of as if they were kind of inconsequential. And you've got this great visual image of icebergs or glaciers just falling apart. Kind of a conservationist statement. You know, it's always been an issue and that's something that's constantly a hot topic whenever people are talking about global warming is hot topic drinking issues. Was that a pun? Hot Topic. Yeah. Global. You're saying global warming is a hot topic. Yeah, it's a hot topic. It's a hot topic in the global warming concert. You completely I'm trying to express something here bad you're totally upsetting me. Great. It's a it's it's a topic of importance frequently broached in the global warming debate about the shrinking of the glaciers, the melting of the ice caps, disappearance of icebergs, and it's a great visual metaphor for that lack of care that that slip in care, just watching this thing slowly fall to pieces, but related to how to relate to little too late. Yeah. And we're getting there, you know, oh, we're right there, bro. We're way too late. However, unlike us, the film is able to replenish itself, because in the very end, as the song ramshackle Day Parade by Joe Strummer in the mosquitoes is playing, you see the same footage, the same footage of the icebergs falling apart from early on in the film, played in reverse, slowly building themselves back together as if the state Jean-Do was in the nd after everything finally ble to appreciate his life for hat it was even though he idn't get to experience the the ost recent amount of time in t, he was able to appreciate verything leading up to that ore than any of us probably ver will be able to end all ecause he was put into that ery impossible, very limited osition. And he was able to enerate something of such depth nd beauty that watching it. It ind of made me and I think this s ultimately the The goal of he film. It made me appreciate verything I have more to appreciate this podcast, he appreciate me. No, but I you know, I just think that things some things are so worthless that they can't be appreciated. You literally cannot assign value to them. Not that they're invaluable, but that they're worthless. So I appreciate everything else outside of you and this podcast by extension. Wow, that's ice cold. See? That's upon. except mine, was it? Oh, my mind wasn't intentional. You caught it. I didn't even catch it. I didn't know I was doing it. My mind. It's just I'm so busy. You're not fun. Just work. No, you're not funny. You're just an idiot. I just want you to know, most podcasts. They barely do. They do a fraction of the editing I do. They just plop the thing together and say, You know what, I'm gonna release this. But you restarting every other sentence. And I know I've told you if you do a flub to restart, but oh my god, I mean, it's impossible with the bud. It's impossible. Hey, I'm doing this with a migraine steadily working its way up the base of my skull. So don't give me as much flak as you're doing. Because words no work as well. When migraine happened. I had a I had a I had a headache earlier. I just took an Advil. You know? It just it really, because this is such a touching film. And now I know it's also personal topic to you. I can't make nearly half the jokes I want to make. Yeah, yeah. You want to insult my grandfather? Go ahead. No, I don't want to insult say Say, say what you got to say. Make your peace. Okay. Well, we'll fight you Shawn's grandfather, you had a child that was responsible for having Sean and for that you should be you should really regret a great number of things. Oh, I hope he send that to his gravestone with some flowers. Where is it? What are the exact coordinates in New Jersey? Okay, that said exact? I don't know exactly. You. Oh, yeah, man. That's man. You're bummed me out now? I do. Yeah. But you didn't get to go to the few Yeah, no. Yeah. Yani is trying to make a joke about something about the funeral. Well, folks, I actually, this is even worse. I didn't go to my grandfather's funeral. I it's really sad. Like I might tear up a little bit thinking about right now because I really wanted to for the longest time, I mean, like he had been sick for a long time. So and you know, I loved him. So I really want to say some words. I have a lot I wanted to say. And he passed literally as the craziness of Corona was happening at the point where we had no idea what the hell was going on, what was safe, what wasn't safe. And I didn't go back. Mainly because like, like I said, we didn't know And fortunately, I still have my grandmother with me. I didn't want to risk her safety to you know, I mean, at the end of the day, it it would have been selfish of me just to go at least that's how I look at it. Because the Put her life in a risk for that. I mean, as in, don't get me wrong, it's extremely important. I really want to go. But I mean, I'm hearing stories about how people didn't wear masks to funerals. And like, there's this one lady who her husband died from kurata. They had a funeral, one of the guys who went to the funeral, didn't wear a mask coughed on her, she got Corona, and passed away a couple days later. So it's just like I while I initially had a lot of regret for not going, and I am sure, I'm pretty sure it would have been fine. At the same time. It was not worth the risk. That's all I'll say with that. So thanks, Johnny. Moving on. What's another scene? Give me another scene shot? That scene where he died? Are you being serious right now? Or are you are you honestly recounting one of your favorite scenes in the film? Well, you That wasn't the opposite. You set out? Am I being serious? Or am I recounting his favorite scene in the movie, you'd say? Are you not being serious? No, I actually thought that scene was really great after he got sick. So like the final five minutes or so where he gets sick, and then he's in a hospital room. And we go back to because the thing is, the second half of the movie is largely third person, we zone out from the first person that we are walked into in the beginning. We'll talk about that a little bit later. But we go back into his first person perspective. And unlike earlier, it's really because he's sick and dying. It's very jittery. The dialogue is hard to hear, it's muddied. It's again, like and there's a lot of flashes on screen. So it's very clear while we're understanding what the other characters are telling him, so his wife, his assistant, etc, etc. It's clear that he really doesn't understand what's going on in large part. I thought that was really effective. And I really like that it's something where you're using film technique really well to convey your point and going off of everything earlier I I found I found it really strong. Yeah, I agree with that. I agree. I thought it was really interesting the way they were using trace images and overexposure to show how his consciousness was coming in and out or he wasn't really perceiving everything that was happening in front of them or what little he did understand. Were just the faces of his loved ones and you kind of see all his family his kith and kin, his entire social group coming in to visit him in the very end with exception to his not mistress at the time but lover I think I don't think actually ever see her in person during the during the the current time, not the flashbacks but the current time in the film. Fun fact alert. Fun fact alert. Fun fact alert, because Jani likes it is fun fact. So according to IMDb trivia in real life, it was actually the mistress who was always biocide. Not the mother was kids. Yeah, she was there. She did visit frequently. But was she it? Maybe? Maybe I'm wrong. It was it seemed like an implied that I know his his mistress was more involved in real life. Yeah, you're wrong. his mistress was more involved in the movie said I was wrong film. Right. You are you're wrong. And you're right. You were about to say that his ex wife or his the mother of his children wasn't nearly as involved as the movie Legion believe. What I'm saying is they could have been equally or you can be right and you can't be wrong. I think his mistress was a little more involved in his last couple of months than the film does lead you to believe you're correct. But I'm pretty sure that his the mother of his children slash No, I don't think it was. She was his ex wife or whatever she was to him because I'm forgetting right now. I think she was about as involved as the movie probably depicts. film, probably dice. I didn't do enough research to say one way or another. But I almost think it would have been more interesting. If it was the mistress who is biocide. Not the mother was kids. And the reason why we're saying mother was kids is that's how he refers to her. It's clear she hasn't been they'd never actually got married. So it's hard. I don't know how else to refer to her as Yeah, it's difficult. I think the point there is to show that he probably didn't come to appreciate her as much as he probably should have, but it would have been a relationship in his life that he probably should have been getting more out of but for one reason or the other, probably his looser is looser relations with women prevented him from attaining but I almost feel like that would have been more effective if she very rarely went in or she never Went in at all. And his love for the mistress. He had that. And then he realizes No, I care about her. I care about seeing my kids. And I think you get that anyway, though, you do get that. I mean, it's never we read that to the wife. I just don't I think it could have been more effective. Yeah, you're not wrong. It probably I just feel like I feel Yeah, like if we just didn't, if they didn't show up as much and weren't as supportive as much. I feel like that could have been a bit stronger. Either way. It was nice to see everyone's the faces of everyone showing up again. And it was also refreshing to know that at the end of his life, but at least in the film, let's just if we're going by film, character and the characters experience, it was refreshing, and heartening to see that as opposed to the beginning of the film where he was waking up in a strange room surrounded by people he didn't know and could barely understand. At the end of his life, though, he's still a little incomprehensive he's surrounded by the people he loves. I'll pretty blonde woman multiple pretty blonde women. Yeah, not just one. No, I said, Oh, I said all also a pretty black man. There's a I think, Well, you know, I'm sure that what's his name, Lauren. Plenty of women probably find him attractive. I'm not so I'm not saying he is. What I'm saying is he had like, what he had the mother was kids, pretty blonde woman, the Assistant pretty blonde woman, I mean, Claude Henri yet the nurse, pretty blonde woman, I honestly kept getting confused as to if it was the assistant or the nurse on screen. I kept thinking it was one or the other, and then realizing Oh, crap, I think it's actually the other What do all attractive white women just look the same to you know, all French people are basically the same to me. Just all sophisticated, caring, lovely people. Okay, yeah, I get that. That's that's not that's not the worst stereotype I would not use. The only word I'd keep in that is people. Maybe? Sorry, no, no, I keep people Fun fact. Fun fact. Fun fact alert here, folks. So in real life, Jean-Do had only wo kits or tongs and clemont. A o, no, no. To and clemont. In he casting process, Julian chnabel and the casting irector. They were down to hree kids to play the parts of is kids. They're down to three hildren actors to play the arts of his kids. And they iked all them so much that they ecided to add an additional art. And name that kid I remember, so that was that was one divergence, I don't think was necessarily justified. I didn't care to hear about that. It didn't hurt my image of the film at all. But Fun fact, Jean-Do ad two kids, not three. So if ou're thinking of nailing rilli Dre, you're terrible on his film. You're terrible at these fun facts. You know that? Did you know that Julian Chanel, Chanel? Man, that is a rough name for me that that's, that is four consonants in a row. As silly. At least you could pronounce it unlike the return director that you don't even bother the what? Which director of that return? Sorry, did you try to do that either. Now, I met my Nobel. He's American. He's from New York. He he learned French just to make this film. Interesting. Yeah, that's really surprising considering how well directed it is. Did Did you happen to notice who produced this movie? No, I didn't. Who? Kathleen Kennedy up nobody, hey, that she also produced Star Wars, all the current Star Wars, the new ones with Ray and Jurassic Park, all the Spielberg movies basically. So just inclined to believe her name was just slapped on it. And she had nothing to do with it after that point. I seriously doubt that it was too good to be to, for her to be as thoroughly involved. It was too good of a film. I mean, she probably laid back and let the director take care of a lot of stuff. But I would have a hard time believing she didn't pick the she's not the one who said I want this source material and then hired the director onto it, because that's how it usually works a lot of times, so in a way, I feel like she was probably on it longer than any way else. But that's just my assumption. I have not actually read into what everything was like. I've read that deeply into it either. We should probably Hey, Shawn, this would be a great time to do an audio footnote. Audio footnote, fuck, yani. I hate him. That terrible person. Man, I can't wait for you to edit that out and insert an actual footnote. Alright, moving on. Anything else you want to talk about? I've talked about plenty of moments that I liked. You've only really mentioned two. Let me come up with a third one. Yeah, it's weird. I don't know how you won't how you manage to miss this one. It's probably the most gripping moment in the entire film. When he got Oh, yeah, no, there was a third one on the fly was on his nose, really gripping moment. He's getting some PT, some physical therapy, and a fly lands on his nose. And he's trying to get the fly off. It's like, he describes it as like an Olympic wrestling match to get the fly off his nose. And I don't think he ends up being able to get the fly off as an advisor says, Ah, this is boring and flies off. You're right, that was a really gripping powerful moment. So at about midway through the runtime, we see a flashback to john doe interacting with his father referred to as papaioannou played wonderfully by Max von Sydow, Swedish actor, great thing about European actors is they're actually capable of speaking more than one or two languages. And you wouldn't have wouldn't have believed that this wasn't a French actor. If you were if you had no knowledge prior that Maxwell and Sita was actually Swedish but you have a scene establishing their relationship. And it's it's really endearing. It's a john doe, shaving his house written father, his father's an older man, I think at that scene, he was in his late 80s, but too old and too weak to leave his apartment essentially locked in, he's immobilized. At one point, later on, I'd like to say maybe it's like 20 minutes later, john doe, after he's had a phone installed in his hospital room, he gets a call from his father. And you can tell that his father is just in a really bad place. He's He's forgetting what he wants to say to his son. He's struggling to even say what he wants to say, fighting through his tears and sobs and commenting how it's so hard to talk to a son in that position because he can't even have a conversation with him like he used to, like he had been having earlier on in the in the film, he has to have it through his through john doe's assistant. And he arrives at the conclusion that the both of them are in a very similar position that they're both in a sense locked in both immobilize and fabled in their own ways. And in the scene ends with a new telling john doe, he'll call him for his birthday, and then hanging up because he's just unable to continue on with the conversation. And I swear, every time I am just sobbing like a baby. When I watched this, I've only seen this film three times but consistently every time I'm crying during that say I actually didn't like that scene I didn't care for I like the his first scene how were introduced How could you not like that scene? How can I not like it. Um, to me, it felt for a movie that was trying to be I there's not a totally accurate description button crime be more Matter of fact, and most of the scenes, and also just I feel like in life, I felt that scene was so played up and was so filmy. And something you'd find in a more melodramatic movie. still works, but I don't feel like it necessarily worked within the context of the whole thing. And, you know, again, I know I make this caveat every time, but I could not help but just recall my own phone calls and conversations, and just go, I mean, like, I have nothing. I have nothing in common with that character. But it just felt like it felt like he was hitting on so many beats and ideas are moments that we have to talk about, because the director said, Man, it'd be really point if you said this a really point if he did that, or just in real life, I would, I would have a hard time believing that conversation would happen. So yeah, that filmic kind of way it works. Sure. In a real life situation. I don't know if I buy it. But then again, these are French people. I'm American. Now and that's not necessarily a slight, it's more so No, you're saying there's a there's could be a cultural difference there. There's a cultural difference. And I feel like you know, my upbringing and my my life is not a slight on but we're just much more reserved in how we talk to each other. So I feel Like that kind of like pouring your heart out would not happen in that kind of way. So you know, maybe maybe that's how the French do it, we don't do it I look bad, I think I think that's the way a lot of people actually are, they have very loving relationships with their and again, this isn't a slide towards you this is just speaking from personal experience. They have very loving very personal relationships with their parents, and child can never really understand how a parent feels about, about their about their kids, they can, they can't really understand that until they have kids of their own, and to put yourself in that position. One to be an old man, a dying old man, to see your child. So pain, so immobilized, so hurt, and not really knowing how to react to it, not knowing how to handle the situation, I can definitely put myself in that position. Because if not in the parents, and if not in the parents position, I can definitely put myself in the position of john doe in that moment, because I've definitely spoken with a parent when they've been crying, breaking down in tears. And it's, it seems like an impossible moment, it seems like something that shouldn't be happening at all, because you're you grew up your entire life, for the most part thinking that to some extent, your parents are these in invulnerable people, and then you find out that they're not that they're capable of feeling all the upset, and all the disappointment and sadness that you are. I'm not going to say that this was john doe's first experience at that point, the character anyways, not the not the actual, like live person. I can't say that for certain. But I can definitely say it was probably it probably for that character in the film was an incredibly memorable and very difficult moment. And probably the first of its kind with his father. I mean, I but I feel like I agree with you to a degree. But it's more so. And I understand the characters limitations. And I understand why it could have come up. But it's just the fact that I was over the phone. It's something where that's what threw me for a loop. I think it was actually in person. And that whole conversation was the same thing. It would have been more effective and resonant. But you specifically said earlier, when you see your child, he didn't see it. He didn't see him. I know that's like a small distinction. It's really small. But it there's a there's a disconnect over the phone. There always is. I mean, we're talking about a guy that a good relationship with his son I couldn't leave could not leave his No, I understand. I understand that point. I understand why it was there. And that he couldn't you see what I'm saying? I'm not saying Oh, man, just just make him leave his apartment, just make him be able to actually see his son. I understand why they couldn't do that. The point they were trying to make as well as just the character's nature and who he is. And I know and articulating that very, very well. But that's all to say, it's not that that doesn't make any sense to me. It's just that that specific moment didn't it didn't ring for me the same way it did for you. Okay, it did not it. I just have to end by saying it didn't feel contrived to me at all. It didn't feel like it was this orchestrated moment, it did feel something that was totally natural. And every time I watch it, if there's any scene that I can pick out of this film that feels to me the most natural it is this one. All right, I will disagree. Moving on, hates dislikes. What do you like about all start off this one, there's a there's a scene and again, these aren't any seats that I hate. Maybe I slightly disliked them. Or maybe I just don't see the point in them. But there's a scene on the beach where it's actually something pretty important. In john doe's in the development of john doe's character, there's a scene on the beach, where he's seeing his children and their mother for the first time together, he's hanging out with a family, essentially. And he's seeing them all, for the first time to Hortons and clemont. And there's this Tom Waits song playing in the background. And it's kind of silly kind of light. And to me, it feels like it really kind of disrupts the pacing of the film as a whole. I don't remember exactly what the scene was that immediately preceded it. But to me, I'm just not crazy about I felt like I could have gone without that whole two or three minutes segment. I semi agree with you. I don't I can't remember if the Hanged Man bit was included in what you're talking about. I like that. So that basically went out there on the beach, the mother not knowing necessarily how her kids can interact with their father says okay, well, you can do letters. Let's play hang man together. I like that. I like that Mo. Man, I like the beats in general. I didn't necessarily like the Tom Waits song that they used. I don't feel like it necessarily works. But overall, I found the beat scene. Fine. It wasn't great, wasn't terrible. The thing is, I can't say other than the fact that he's actually seeing his kids for the first time which he explicitly states at the beginning of the film, when Celine has their mother asked if he wants to see them. He adamantly says, No, I don't want to see them. This shows a development it shows growth in character that he's finally willing to accept his position, accept who he is now in live and allow other people in allow other people to be a part of his life again. And that's nice, but other than that, I really don't see the point. I don't see the point in the scene. The music, I like the Tom Waits song, I think it gives this whole scene this very strange vibe. It's halfway between dramatic and silly. And just to me seems out of sorts with the rest of the with the rest of the film. You know, I want I want to actually backtrack as to a scene I liked that I forgot to mention. So I forgot when this happens in a movie, but it's a flashback to when john, john doe, john doe, john doe, a scene. So I'd like to talk about flashback when john doe goes to Lourdes, with what I was girlfriends, ambiguous girlfriend, he later breaks up with her. But I really breaks up with her at the end of the Lord smash back. So I really loved specifically at the end, when she basically begs him for a virgin Mary Madonna statue, she brings it back to their hotel room, turns the light on, and he wants to sleep with her. And he's like, Can we turn that light off? And she's like, No, I'm not turning that off. And I thought to myself, you know, is probably how Jani does it? Jani? Is that how you do it? I don't do it at all. Waiting for the big day. Oh, you want to know is you want to I was Catholic? Oh, wait, no, you one of those one of the one of those religious types or orthodox orthodox orthodox types. How many times do I it's like you can't even remember. It's like, it's like every time I say it. I'm also hitting you in the head with a hammer. So you forget what I'm saying? Yeah, pretty much it says. Yeah. He said, I have big headphones on. So normally I say goes in one ear goes out the other but you think what the headphones would just constrain it. Well, actually goes in one ear comes out my ass. Because I farted out and then just goes out into the ether. Oh, man, right, right back to that to that blue collar humor boy, and just talk about muddying mucking it up. I was gonna say Kai actually like that. No, no, go make your other joke. And then I'm going I have more to say about the film that we're discussing in this film podcast. I was gonna say as I halfway through telling that joke, I was gonna say it came out of my nose. But then I said, Nah, that's too easy. That's not strong enough. It's got to come out of my ass. You know? That's, that's a real statement right there. It's a real hot take, like the really hot topic like global warming hot. Bring it back. So one thing I really like about that scene, too, is well, something that Shawn didn't mention. The flashback ends with shondo saying that they should break up her agree that john doe saying that they should break up when they get back to Paris I think her agreeing and then he puts his clothes on and goes for a walk and as he's going for a walk goes down the street, any any arrives at the Catholic store, where they think where they'd purchased this, the Madonna, the Virgin Mary, and it's got this red blinking light, a red blinking Halo over it, which they had earlier, before heard was one of a kind. And he's looking at it through the window and he's seeing his reflection in it every time the red light blinks. And I think it's this really kind of sad moment. No, it's very, in a kind of tragic in a sense to see how how his skepticism is confirmed how there's almost like this yearning to want to believe something but he's unable to touch it because he has experiences like this. This one, for instance. It's you know, what we're not talking about also is that while john doe is incapacitated, he hears about people praying for him that people have faith and they're praying for him that he'll have some that he'll heal himself and he even goes to a church right before this flashback and the priests there tells him then, he and Henrietta Henri, I don't want to take it To Lawrence for a mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee mee Oh, are we done talking about the church? I didn't do that to you while I did that to you while you weren't talking about the film, okay, I was actually trying to like agree with you, but no, no, fuck it. We're done. We're done talking about it. Let's move the fuck on. I back off. Are we okay? Are you doing okay? I'm a little irritated. I'm a little I was screwing around with you earlier on. When we were talking about stuff that didn't matter. But I completely lost my train of thought. I'm sorry. Go back. No, no, no, no, no, remove. I can't even I try to interject some humor. It's okay. Just I'll come down from it. You know, if that's what you're gonna do, it just cut to what I'm saying here. I'm not even gonna finish it. You don't fight if that's what you can do? Screw it. We're moving on. Next thing, okay. Yes. I said one thing I disliked. What's one thing you dislike, oh, the entire first 45 minutes of the movie. And then how everything in first person? Life. Let me clarify that. Because it's a little complicated how I feel about that. Because we have, and I was tempted to text you multiple times and say, is this whole fucking movie going to be enforced person, this is how this whole thing is going to be. And then you know, like, I kind of got it, I kind of got adjusted to it. And then around the 4045 minute mark, then we throw in him wanting to write the book, he gets the assistant, he starts writing the book. And this is like halfway through the movie. So you could argue it's a midpoint. But I'm just like, this is the this should have happened 20 minutes ago, at this is where you were going to go, this is what was going to happen. And honestly, once we get out of his perspective, I felt like the film picked up a lot more granted, I do think we need the context of the first 40 minutes to understand what he was going through and feel for him and understand that I thought it was important. That being said, I don't think it needed to last that long. I think it could have been half that time. There were multiple scenes that definitely could have been cut or shortened. And I don't think we would have lost the impact and still to work. So that it's more it's more so a pacing issue than anything else. I there's not any scene in particular that I felt was really bad. I think that one friend who came back and said route from not the bay route friend, I liked the bay route friend, the other one who struggled to communicate with him and said, Oh, the other guy said you were a vegetable. That guy. I don't think that scene hugely worked. And I felt like the nursing scenes could have been like cut in half, because some of them were either really long or really repetitive. And if the movie didn't transition into the next half, and that had been the entire thing, I would have forgiven it. And I said okay, well, that's what you're doing. But to make such a sharp change like that, it just made me wonder it really becomes about him writing. I just went I feel like this. I feel like things need to should have been restructured. I just don't I didn't think it needed that much time devoted to everything beforehand to still make the point it did. You know, I think maybe you're right. To an extent maybe that the the scene that you're talking about the friend with a friend I felt didn't need to be there. It wasn't absolutely necessary. I disagree about the nurse. I just definitely disagree about Henrietta. I think she was pretty vital in john doe's development not and I will say, I let me finish my piece and then I'll let you have you ever occurred. Okay, I personally find that the perspective was tied directly to john doe's character, his development as a person. And the fact that you jump from first person to third person shows that he not only that, the movie was expanding to try to encapsulate more characters and try to grasp more experiences. But it was doing that as a, it was doing that as a way of reflecting how he was growing as a person, how it became that how he became less focused on himself on himself individually and became more focused on the people that he affected, as well. And party and writing the novel was just a part of that. Because ultimately, and again, I haven't read, I'm just making assumptions here. The movies also, the film is also based on the novel. So it's hard to say where it's influenced does and doesn't end in the adaptation process. But the movie is about the but the film is about other people. And I'm assuming the novel is about other people, other relationships he's had as well. And there were events in his life post coma post incident to up to him writing the novel that he was probably more focused on himself during. And so I like that. I think it was necessary. And I think it was a very smart move on the parts of the filmmaker. I agree for the most part with what you said. I'll say what I disagree. And I was second, but I'm not saying that it didn't do all that, for the most part, what I'm just saying is pacing wise, I think it should have been shorter, still have most of what it has. But just cut down just figure out what doesn't necessarily need to be in there. And because again, it is the I know this is kind of Hollywood thinking with structure and everything. But if the quote unquote catalysts or whatever the inciting incident, whatever you fuck you want to call it, it feels like it should have been the writing the novel, or even I feel I just feel like there was probably 10 to 15 minutes that could have been cut. And that that thing that novel should have happened at minute 30. I know that's a minor thing I'm griping at, but it it just fell off to me. I feel like that's where I would have been okay with Okay, now we're transitioning out as opposed to a full half of the movie devoted just to that. Now, where I disagree with you is you you're talking about how the movie is not about is less about him and more about other people, the other people in his life. More specifically, it's transitions out of that, like, it's all about him and first half and more about the other people and the second half. I kind of don't agree I it doesn't know I here's the thing. It's it's about him the entire time. It's just he's less self centered. He's focusing sure he's okay with people later on. It's not about it's not about them, as to say it's not following them. Okay, sure. He's focusing more on others than he is on himself. Okay. Yes, I agree. Because I'm one of the weakest things of this film. Sorry, sorry, movie, are the weakest things of this movie is the other characters he's strong. The other character is, like I said, I confuse to the main characters, they were basically the same person more or less, they had slight differences, but function wise, and also, it feels like almost a dreamlike idealized version of looking at these people. Maybe that was part of the point. But you know, like I said, this is all this is me reflecting on my own life, but I just feel like there there was more, there's more potential to mine there as to those characters, those people what they're going through. And I think you get that to degree with the Father. But I wish I'd seen it a bit more from the other characters. Not to say it's not there, particularly with the mother of his kids, but that it could have been more and I feel like it was there, they just chose not to go for it. My argument against that is that this film is about trying to recreate an experience it's a very personal experience to one single person in his position specifically, which was being a person locked within their own body unable to communicate with others except via blinking one eye the only times he interacted people that were not in the medical staff were time were when they were visiting were when those characters those other people in his life decided to visit him. So naturally, the depth of their character is kind of restricted to those single interactions. If they do if those characters do seem a little rounded out if they do seem a little bit glossed over I think it's that he that the more that you came to know about them the the more he saw them in a in a much more favorable light. And possibly that's possibly because that's all he was seeing them as that's possibly because that's all they chose to reveal themselves to him as I can't really say exactly for sure right now, because that migraine is working its way into my head and I'm starting to feel a very tight pinch behind my right eye. But yes, that is point. Good point. Good point. Good, very well articulated Jani. I've wrote this in my notes and I just want you to know, from my heart from my deepest, you know, for from my heart I bought this from the from the bowels from the from the unclean bowels of your heart found them from the bowels of my heart, and my anus if if this word happened to you the exact same situation, I just want you to know, I would not take care of you at all, I would call you constantly berate you, you won't be able to do anything about it. Also, if I were your assistant in this situation, and you were doing in the blink of an eye, I would totally ruin your novel and make it just a bunch of shit jokes. It'd be like 45 of my favorite poop jokes would be your novel before you die. That's how that's how you'd go out with. It would honestly, with the minor or major adjustments you'd be making to it by virtue of the fact that some of my words might have slipped through into your prose between yours. By virtue of that fact alone, it would still probably be the best thing you'd have you've ever written. I'll keep some pronouns and some prepositions, but yeah, that might be it. Yeah, no, that's that that would still it would pay that would bring the unique word count up. Honestly. In your case, when she thanks, bud. Anything else? You just land on your tombstone? On your tombstone? All right, number 14, shit joke. And I don't know good shit joke off the top my head, but it'll be if there'll be one of them on your tombstone. I won't say loving husband or father or son. They'll just be a shit joke. Well, the best one you could come up with, honestly, is if it was a portrait of you engraved on the tombstone. Oh, that would be Oh, you burn me? Damn, damn. So let me get this right. I'm gonna be at my tombstone. It's gonna be it's gonna confuse people. This is how you look like, and they'll be like, no, it was his assistant who wrote his novel. Wait, so it's not even a picture of him on his tombstone? No, it's his assistant. That's really weird. Like even even up even if it was like a loved one or a relative or anybody else. It still be weird. But his assistant I just don't know if that makes any sense. I don't know Yanni was a weird guy. He was really into shit chokes What can I say? Good and good. In theory, not in practice actually got in passing? not an either. So you disliked the first 40 minutes. For that reason. You thought there was a pacing problem? Yeah. And I mean, like you've given me in general. And general I thought it was fine. But I just wish it was quicker. Yeah, what else? Let me see. I don't I we talked about most of the things I can't come up with a whole bunch else I disliked. It's very hard for me to find something in this film. That irks me aside from that beach scene. I think we should just start wrapping up. We're almost at two hours. And I have I honestly I've already made all the points I'm going to make about the things I disliked. So stuff about the opening the dialogue. I didn't like the like I said the nursing staff how supportive they were. And just everything that I disliked. I mean, let me look at my sheet, but I think I had all my points. Oh, last last thing I want to last thing I want to mention is not necessarily something I hate, but just something that made me go, Oh, this is how I know this is Johnny's ideal life. When john, you're talking about the life of an invalid, Correct, correct? Yes. Okay, when jondo in order to cheer him up, the either nurse or assistant still not 100% sure which one it was brings him out onto a boat and reads his account code. It's his assistant account count on Monte Cristo and just reads a book to him. And I just want you know, this is Jani living his best life this is this is exactly what he'd want. Yeah, you know, honestly, probably wouldn't be the Count of Monte Cristo. I know what I don't mean to be on a boat it still be something about boats. That's the thing that sort of loud that's the thing. That's the thing that you don't like or that's the that that's the the one thing you change about that situation. The boat, nothing else. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, I would rather the other scene where they're, where they're doing pretty much more or less the same thing. She's been, he's been dictating to her. They're up on a platform on the beach, not so close to the water that the sound is overpowering anything. That's where I'd rather be be being read a book. But yeah, no more most of that is ideal to me. I guess I'd like to be able to use my bladder but other than that, so I got across the tightest, bro you know that's gone. Gone the way the dodo going the way it was going the way of the dodo now the dodo died extinct Gonzo my, but what does that have to do with us your bladder with prostate Titus, you're not gonna be able to hold it in, you're not gonna be able to hold it anymore as this is my joke. This isn't this isn't even a joke. This is our reality. And my reality I don't know what your reality is. But my reality is that sometimes, you know, you turn the spigot, but nothing's coming out. That's my reality. That's your reality. That's my reality. I mean, it's somebody just break this. Turn the spigot. Sorry. Let me repeat that this that's you don't turn the spigot, my head. I don't know what your deck looks like. My reality is you turn the wheel and nothing comes out of the spigot. What's your reality? I mean, just break the wheel off. Now it's more or less the same. It's a you're missing the point of my joke. You're reading too much into it. It wasn't the smartest joke. I was just trying to go off things. And now you got to ruin it and tarnish it and you know, just be an asshole. But you know, whatever. But whatever. That's honestly I found that's my best defense against you. Whenever you just tried to like drag me into the mud. I get on such a high level that you can't even see me and it's a pretty it's pretty effective. You're the lb one I'm the mannequin is that I take the higher ground. Yeah, yeah. Don't try to jump up to me on the higher ground because I've been in the higher ground. I know how to defend the higher ground. You try to come up to me. I'm turning you into quadriplegic. So basically, that's right. He had one arm. Try it. Try it. I'm gonna turn you into john. Yeah. Well, john doe had the Darth Vader uniform. But now he appreciates life. So he'd go Yeah, Shawn shot. He wouldn't do either of those things. You know what he would do? What? Yeah, he's waking me, right. Darth Vader doesn't have Darth Vader can wink. Also, you know, going off of what we were talking about earlier, Kathleen Kennedy produced both movies. So this could have happened. Kathleen Kennedy had to hold on. Kathleen Kennedy produced the Star Wars movies Revenge of the Sith Revenge of the Sith. I know she didn't. Let's look it up. No, that's that's that is pre Disney Star Wars. That's not Kathleen Kennedy. Kathleen Kennedy has been involved with them for years since Raiders. So I would doubt you wasn't involved. But let's see. Looking up right now. Let's look it up. I mean, she had the Star Wars universe. It doesn't even matter. But let's see. Let's see. Let's see. Oh, she produced The Last Airbender. Oh my god. Oh, man. That was like I think that was a year after the the diving bell and the butterfly. What a back to back Kathleen Kennedy. Oh, my God. I just want to say I just rewatch the the Avatar The Last Airbender series a couple weeks ago. Fucking phenomenal. And I know this has been said time and time again. But that movie is so bad. It's so so bad. I got through 10 minutes of it said, Wow. This is maybe the worst thing I've ever seen possibly worse than Cold War and turn it off. Oh, well, it's just thought it was worse and not against us. And now you're you're right. You're right. She didn't produce Ha. But but but she was good friends with George Lucas. There's no way that he didn't talk to her even a little bit about it. Okay. So, and she was still plucked as a maid. She got points on the back end. Now. She didn't get points on the back end. But you know what, and the new trilogy, the new trilogy at references Vader, she had access to Vader, she could have done more with Vader. So you know what, I still count. It still counts. I'm just saying john doe. Could have been a Vader. He could he could. He could be walking. He could be talking. But this ain't a galaxy far, far away. This is France to San Francisco. This is the United States in the late 1800s. So yeah, if this one can't help but feel that if this had happened in the United States, possibly in Virginia or upstate New York, he'd be walking and talk and within three weeks for health care. Oh, I don't know about that man. I think this is the United States. He He would have died and half the time. You know, I would never put my money on socialized health care. I'll tell you what. I would never Yeah, no our health care. We won't get into that debate right now. Because this is fuck your opinion and movie review podcast not a health care review podcast. But let me tell you, I think our healthcare system sucks and it needs a whole whole chains. And I disagree with Jani on this. But whatever. We'll talk about that offline. Anyways. Well, because as soon as we're done recording this episode, I'm going to bed Yeah, no. Anyways, Jani. Anything else you want to talk about this movie? Anything else you want to say about this movie? Oh, I don't know. This is always such a weird part of the of the podcast to me. If you've, if you're a listener, and you've listened this far, and you're kind of on the fence about seeing this film, I'd say, you know, lean lean my way or lean Sean's way. It sounds like he didn't dislike this one as nearly as much as I thought. It also dawns on me right now that we both forgot to we both forgot to have me give my rating at the beginning. I remember that. I just didn't want to interrupt you. Being a little rude. We're here. Always have her and outline ready before we go into this. Just say, say your fucking writing. Otherwise, we will forget. Just give us your part of your writing. Okay, podcast fucking writing. Okay, stop being a little bitch. Well, Shawn, here's the thing. So I was thinking about this film. And I visited IMDb to get all the particulars about the director. And the writer clearly didn't get Jason momoa favorite times. But you know, and I saw that I'd given the film her rating of an eight out of 10. And I thought, you know what, I would like to give it a higher rating. But I don't think I would give it a nine out of 10. And so I realized, if I were going to perfect the rating system on IMDB, I would possibly Institute the addition of decimal points they use, but you know, whatever. Well, no, they don't. The averages come out to decimals but you can't vote with a decimal. Okay, whatever. And so I thought, you know what, that's not a change, I can affect on IMDB. But I think that is a change that we could use here. So I officially moving forward, I think we should use decimal points with all of our ratings, if applicable. Okay, yeah, sure. Jasmine for the very first time, Jani. God with that real innovator, Steve Jobs won an 8.4 out of 10. Not quite perfect. I've said it before, I'll say it again, no such thing. It's not without its flaws. But as somebody going into film watching experience, hoping like most people do, I think, looking to receive some sort of emotional stimulation from the experience. I say, you get the you get the full, man, my head is killing me. I'm gonna say you get the whole assortment with this one. On the most part, it is a little bit sadder. And there are a plethora of moments that'll, that'll bring you down doesn't necessarily have the happiest ending, but I think that's what the movie. I think that's what the film touches on thematically, most importantly, that view experience as a human being a lot of disappointments, a lot of upsets and a lot of tragedies in your life. And ultimately, at the end of the day, you experience those things. So you can learn to appreciate the people who help you through them and the good moments you had with them before and the good moments you can continue to have with them after and highlighting that showcasing it showcases the the human struggle for happiness for acceptance for strength about as well as as you can. So 8.3 or 8.4 whatever I gave it now now you you've already given a point for any product down because you realize that the movie brought you down. So if you want to keep going lower, be my guest a point to a million, but I can I can feel my pulse behind my right eye and that's a little distracting while I'm trying to talk here. Shawn, what's your rating? Well, at least your left eyes, okay. I winked at him because john doe is his left eye because he can't use his right eye. Anyways, my rating 7.1 I'm not gonna lie. It's very personal, personal feelings got in the way. I said. There's objectively there's a pretty good film Nope, sorry. Movie mood. objectively, there's a pretty good movie. But I have some personal problems with that. I think if I end up rewatching it having in the context of it being an actual true story, and also being a little bit more removed from my personal life, personal situations, I think I'd be able to appreciate a little bit more. But for right now, hi, specifically felt 7.1 if decimals are allowed? Yeah, I think moving forward first time, but moving forward, we should probably do decimal points, just you know, to give ourselves more options, because I think you know, a 7.9 is very different from a seven, it's closer to an eight, but not quite an eight. It's more descriptive, in a sense, just that one more that one additional number adds adds a whole world of description, and implication. Yeah, but who knows? We'll save that while on people speaking that way. When people criticize me and saying, Shawn, you gave the movie a seven? I say no, I gave it a 7.1 as more Oh, yeah, you were saying slightly above? It's like, it's like you've got you've got 10 cousins, and you hate all of them. But there's one you hate the least. And that's the cousin you invite to your birthday party. When I give some names? Jani. What's what? Which cousins Do you hate the least? Oh, jeez. I mean, don't even get me started. But I'll tell you right now. Two of them are named Peter. All right, like I was saying. Speaking of lasting and and next installments, future installments, following that line of thinking, Shawn, what are we watching next week? Well, Jani. I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't know what you're gonna make of next week's film. Because which is let me finish because there have been multiple times where I figured, you know, I don't know I think Jani is gonna like this. And then Jani ends up hating it, like three fugitives. So I want to give you something that you might like, there's the possibility you might like at the same time, I feel like there's a greater chance you're not gonna like it going off of this felt sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Going off of this movie being a biopic more or less being based off of an auto biography. I figured next week, let's go with a similar theme biopic based off of an autobiography. So Jani next week. We are watching Jessica Chastain and Molly's game. Oh, no, that's not a good idea why I need to be able to watch other things on screen I need to be able to to view the movie and address it objectively and I can't do that while Jessica Chastain is on screen. It's impossible. Okay. I think you're I just I can't do it. So here's what I'm expecting. I think you're gonna watch it and go there. I love Jessica chesty. Everything else around it is shit, but I love Jessica chesty. So that's what I'm expecting. There are three people in the world that I cannot watch objectively on screen, and they are Jessica Chastain, Bryce Dallas, Howard and Amy Adams. You can't pick movies with those three in them isn't real. So I won't be able to offer any sort of object not none of me, says no. on that list. I can be objective about suspiria suspiria. Really, really ground my gears. So you're saying if I chose I chose trifecta. I chose x men dark Phoenix. You want to have any qualms with that? Nope, not a single one. I would see it and I think Wow, she's she's a platinum blonde now. I'm sold. You could show me Jurassic World too. And I would I would have no problem with it. No, he's a piece of crap. I'm sorry. But like I told you, Bryce Dallas Howard. It can't work. It's my kryptonite. Well, that those three lines of pick something else now? No, no, no, I'm Go ahead. Let's watch Molly's game. Yeah, let's it will be difficult. I'm gonna see her she's gonna I remember her voice in the trailers. It's very breathy, very sensuous, so it's, it won't be an easy experience for me but let's just put it this way. I'm gonna have to watch this one alone and it might get a little steamy in there the room I'm gonna have to open some windows let's just say the movies two and a half hours it might take a little longer than that. Oh, I gotta Oh boy. I just let me let me let's just say don't add my forehead dry here. I've got sweat collecting. Watch it with Mona. That's all I'm saying. No, she's she's not invited. This one. I'm just going to tell her we're taking the week off. Well, Sean, I'm visions going on. little blurry in my right eye so I think this is probably a good stopping point. I mean, it was a good stopping point two hours ago but yeah, sure. Now it's because no, this is a good stopping point A few years ago, but Yon is incoherent, noisy, he's babbling on nonsense. So let's just go fuck yourself. Good night. Go fuck yourself bad night. Got it because when you have a bad night your headache kills you