Be holistically abundant in your spiritual, mental and physical health - a panel discussion

UPPC Hope Inspired

Hey there, I'm Amy Connell. Welcome to Graced Health, the podcast for women who want simple and grace-filled ways to take care of themselves and enjoy a little chocolate. I'm a certified personal trainer and nutrition coach who wants you to know your eating movement and body don't have to be perfect.

You just need to be able to do what you're called to do. Okay, today is a little different and I'm really excited about this one. A few months ago I had the honor, truly honor to be one of three speakers at a women's event with University Place Presbyterian Church, which is in the Pacific Northwest, sort of outside of Tacoma, Washington.

And thanks to technology. I was able to be streamed in The other two speakers were there, uh, speaking about mental health and spiritual health, and they were in person. But when it was my turn, I was actually just streamed in via Zoom. So yay for technology and what we are able to do with that. Then at the end, Mike Moffett, who is one of the pastors there, and Ha is the host of the Bible Jazz Podcast, which I'll tell you about here in just a second.

Hosted a panel of the three of us, and I have to tell you, there was so. Much rich goodness on this panel that I asked Mike if I could get the audio to this. So he actually took this and it is live on the Bible Jazz podcasts. So if you would like to hear his take on things, you can hear it there. But the, the content and the panel is just the same.

Now you're not going to hear a whole lot of new things of what I had to say, and I'm great with that because let's be honest, you hear enough of me. But what I really want you to hear is, Lorena who spoke about spiritual health, and Jeanette, who is a counselor and spoke about mental health. Now, as Mike said at the beginning, this panel and this conference was about wellness in body, mind, and spirit because God wants us to be holistically abundant.

And I just want you to sit with that for a minute, holistically abundant in those three areas. It's not just about our eating and our movement, which I know I talk a lot about, and we do talk about mental health and spiritual health, but it's that holistic abundance. So I love those two words together. I want to quote just a couple things from these panelists.

Because I really want you to listen to all of this. One of the things that Jeanette said and offered is, you know, you will have been a successful parent when your child is in therapy. And she's, like she said, received the grace in that they are in therapy for different reasons than you were in therapy.

And she also said, for your child to say I hate you, that means they trust you and you're a cell safe place to land. And I just, I, she's so gentle. You guys are gonna hear her V voice. Both of them actually are just so tender and gentle, and I know you're gonna fall in love with them just like I did Lorena.

Really spent some time in her, um, in the time that she spoke, but also in the panel just encouraging us to remember the awareness that God is always with us. And then they also talked about how we feel led by God and paying attention to how our body responds to different opportunities or experiences.

Like I said, this is just such. Peaceful, gentle wisdom from both of them. I can't wait for you to hear it and go check out Bible jazz, especially if you are looking for a new podcast. So Mike says, this is a podcast about improvising through life and faith. Mike Moff. Moffitt is a pastor with. University Place, Presbyterian Church.

It's also called U P C in the Pacific Northwest. It's right outside of Tacoma. He aims to provide authentic conversations and an easy and accessible way to engage in dialogue about the Bible, Christianity, life and faith. I just have so much respect for Mike, uh, and highly encourage Bible jazz. If you are looking for a new podcast, Okay, let's bring on the panel discussion.

Hey everybody. Can you hear me okay? This is so trippy. They've got my voice and Amy's voice and their ears, and it's also in the speakers. And Amy is technically this tiny robot right here. Hi Amy. We can wave at Amy down here. Yeah, she's waving back. There she is. But, um, right now and for about five years, U PPP C has had a podcast.

We have well over 200 episodes out there for you to find anywhere you get podcasts. It's called Bible Jazz because our conversations are always improvised and that's why I'm gonna about to read the intro and then I won't have any more script. Let's hear one more. Big round of applause for these speakers today have been glowing our minds.

Hello and welcome to Bible Jazz.

Yes, a podcast, a live podcast about improvising through life and faith. My name is Mike Moffitt. I get to be a pastor and teacher, and. Solo male right now, uh, in the beautiful town of University Place, Washington t Top here in the northwest corner of these lower 48 states. I sit down with a friend or two or three or 130 to explore what's inside the Bible at least, and how it interacts with our lives and the world around us.

Bible jazz is a conversation, so you can follow and write to me on Instagram. Wait for it. At Bible Jazz. I know it's hard to remember at Bible Jazz or right by email, uppp c bible jazz gmail.com. And by the way, if you enjoy Bible jazz or I've listened to it before, the best way to help others enjoy it is just by sharing an episode.

Talk about it. And uh, and, and you can do that via social media or in person, of course. Our conversations at Bible Jazz are always improvised and sometimes unusual just like jazz.

See, this my script? It's gone. I am so excited for the second year in a row to be at the Hope and. Women's weekend. Let's hear it again ladies.

I'm just overwhelmed with what it takes to put this, this kind of weekend on. And we're gonna do a little thank yous, uh, later on, but mostly just thrilled by the three, uh, folks. Who're gonna be my guest today. We have Jeanette, and Lorena and Amy all together, sorta Amy, you're included. Uh, and, uh, the theme as we planned this.

Was it is well or is it is Well, and the idea was who do we know who can speak to wellness in body, mind, and spirit, or even head, heart, hands, you know, there's lots of kind of models for this. And so we thought of, of you two from here in our own congregation. And Amy as a guest, formerly on Bible jazz, who also of course has a lot of her own content.

And so before we get into these questions, I just want to, uh, throw out a, an icebreaker question to the group if you're ready for this. They're smiling politely because, uh, I know Lorena's been on the show and he's like, and she's like, Mike doesn't tell me what to expect. And that's true. Um, icebreaker question, um, to get to know you.

Let's start with you, Jeanette. Jeanette Scott, what if you could do anything at all on a weekend? This is coming to you guys as well. If you could do anything at all on a weekend, no holds barred. Cost is money, is no object. What would you do? What do you think?

It's okay. Processing time is is allowed. 

That's not the question you asked me in the warmup. Oh, 

sorry. I thought, I thought it was, I must have forgotten.

Well, I'm gonna stall on what I'd wanna do. Oh. And say what I actually do. Okay. Uh, during Covid, when that, you know, everything shut down, I have two friends. We got together every Saturday night. For dinner and a movie and sometimes we got to the movie, sometimes we didn't, uh, but we always did get to a glass of wine with dinner and we have continued doing that ever since, and I very much enjoy it.

If money was no option. I don't know. I might fly to Paris for dinner one night. There you go. 

And that now we're talking. Yeah. Yeah. Money's no option. You can have your dinner in Paris and just get up back on your private jet and come back. You'd be back by Monday. Right? 

That sounds great. Right. Or I might take a ride on a zebra or something.

I don't know. I 

love it. Thank you, Janette. Yeah, thank you. And thank you for improvising with me. All right. Let's, uh, actually move. I'm gonna go in my clockwise, so that actually makes you next to me, Amy, cuz you're, I'm seeing you up on the screen. So Amy. Money's no object. What would you do if you had a weekend free?

A 

weekend free? Well, one of the things I love to share is that I love elevation and vegetation. This is the thing that just makes my heart happy. I have plenty of vegetation here in the Houston area, but literally no elevation. So I think what I would do is get on a plane with my husband, fly up to. I'm also kind of practical, so I'd probably go to Salt Lake City because that's a pretty easy way to get over into the Rocky Mountains.

Mm-hmm. And we would go, I would probably have some friends meet me and we would hike all day and enjoy some wonderful dinners at night. I love 

it. I love it. We got a lot of flying Once money is no longer an object. Uh, lot. Lots of flying. Now Lorena, you, you have had the most time to think so. Yours has to be the best.

No pressure. 

Oh no. Well, I think I'm gonna join on the Flying Bad Band Wagon and I'm gonna join Jeanette and fly to Paris for dinner with my son. And, um, And then hopefully maybe my other son that is in England right now could join us there. That would be my ideal. And bringing my husband along too, 

if he's available.

Yeah. Uh, may we'll make sure we share this with, with your sons and your husband Amy too. Yeah. And your friends Jeanette, so everybody knows they gotta mention on Bible jazz. Well, thank you all and this is of course something if we had time, I would ask every single one of you to fantasize about your ideal weekend.

But you know what, we've been here talking about wellness of body, mind and spirit. We've heard so much and it's so well, well grounded in in the Bible and especially the meta, what's known as the meta narrative. So sometimes it's hard to point to a specific verse that says, yeah, and you know, Ecclesiasticus 13 four, it says, you should be well in body, mind, and spirit.

It's not, uh, it's often not that clear, but if you read the Bible's whole narrative, you can see that God wants our lives to be abundant and holistically abundant. And so I'm glad you're here. And what we're gonna do is jump into these questions. Uh, some of 'em are general, some of 'em are a little bit directed towards your particular areas.

Uh, but everybody can speak to any, uh, of the questions that you want. Couple of them. One of 'em was even, uh, for me, I put that at the bottom of the pile. You guys hear from me a lot, so if we, we happen to have time, I maybe will get to that one. But of course, even that is something everyone can speak to.

So y'all, y'all ready? Ready to go. All right. Um, it says here, What is the hardest self-judgment that you have to overcome? And there's a modifier on the question as well that says, if you'd like to speak to that from the point of view of motherhood specifically. That's in the question too, but I wanted to, uh, I wanted to open it up as a little more general question.

What is the hardest self-judgment that you have to overcome in, in your lives? And you're welcome to jump in in any order as you process. 

Well, thinking about motherhood, I have a few mantras I live by in my life that I've come to hard fought, and one of them about, um, parenthood anyway, is this, you know, that you have been a successful parent.

If when your child is in therapy, hear the grace in that, uh, they're dealing with different issues than you did in your own therapy. We don't need to be perfect. Children need their parents to be attuned to them. Two thirds of the time, two thirds, 67%. That's a D in school. As long as when there is a rupture, there's repair.

So when there's a break in the relationship, mom or dad comes back to the child and repairs it. Two thirds is all that's needed. A lot of grace in that. 

That's really helpful. Thank you for that. Yeah, I appreciate that. Lorena. Amy, you wanna jump in?

I will jump in. Um, it's interesting that that question is posed because, uh, I've been having some conversations. So this is the problem with me. All thing, all roads lead back to my to podcast, to the conversation about the podcast. But um, one of the things that my pastor says a lot is our, um, children's behavior is not a parenting report card.

And we can, and you know, I'm a mom of teens and I, I've got, I've got pretty well-rounded kids, but you know what? None of us are perfect. And, uh, just recognizing that even though these are the things that we instilled in them throughout, um, as they were growing up, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be perfectly aligned with that now and or later.

And so just lifting that burden, um, From ourselves I think is really helpful. There's a great book that's literally at arm's length from me, uh, by Mary Damuth, called Love Pray. Listen. And she has in here, um, your job is to work yourself out of a job with parenting, and I think that that's really helpful too, because sometimes we think we have to be in it all the time and we're trying to work ourselves out 

of it.

So thank you. Thank you. I'm learning a lot right now. I can't wait for more. Yeah. Lorena, you wanna jump in on 

that? What strikes me is I feel like in this stage of life, so I'm just, um, my youngest is almost 20, and the more I learn and grow, the more I go, oh, dang, I wish I would've known that then, or I wish I would've had that inside, or I wish I would've parented from that place.

And so I think for me, it's just offering myself a lot of grace right now. And going back to Jeanette said, realizing like, okay, I gave it the best I had to give it at that stage. And I think all through motherhood, um, just part of my prayer over and over again was, God, fill in the gaps. Like you, I'm, you're the ultimate, you're the ultimate parent, and I'm just showing up and offering what I have to offer right now.

Um, being as well as I can in that moment, in that season of my life. And trusting that you're a lot bigger than that, fortunately. 

Yeah, that's, um, that's a great reminder of our Yeah. Our parent, right? Our heavenly father, our heavenly parent, and the model that, uh, that we have there. Uh, it is hard, uh, if you're a parent, the first time you hear your kid say those three words.

I hate you. Right? I can see a few nodding heads. So thankfully I just took that risk, and it's not just me. Okay? Yeah. But 

however, for your child to say I hate you means they trust you. You're the safe person they can say it to, because they're not afraid you're gonna turn away from them. 

Uh, Jeanette, can I have your business card when you're, when we're done, I'm just gonna give you a quick call.

Uh, actually Janet, I'm gonna stick with you, uh, with our next question here. Um, this person writes, I had a, now if you, uh, on the Bible jazz episode, you, you may not have heard Janette's, uh, talk. So, um, you can also give us a little context here so that we understand what the, the lobby is and the inner critic.

Uh, the, the question is, I had a hard time leaving the judgment or inner critic. In the lobby. Can you refresh us on the steps or additional tips on how to park that while moving through the exercise? Or if I could add in life how to park my inner critic, uh, in the lobby at least for a time, refresh our memories and, and any additional tips on that idea?

Okay. So earlier today we, um, did a practice or an exercise with, um, coming to get to know a part in ourselves that we don't like too well, better. And in order to do that, um, I asked that people ask the critical judgmental part of you to step back. So I just said into the lobby cuz it's a different room than the one that we're in right now.

Um, and I think the question refers to what if that's hard to do? It is hard to do often because that judge mental critical part is, uh, born out of shame and it becomes really powerful in us and sounds like it's a voice that is, um, it is our, you know, conscience and, I don't know, telling us what we need to know.

Uh, and in fact, most of the time it's lying. But anyway, um, if it's hard to have that part step back so that you can then get to know some other parts in you, um, offering that for one thing, it will only be for x amount of time. So can you step back for five minutes or 10 minutes or 15 minutes, usually is helpful.

And something else that can be helpful is when I am done, um, talking with this other part, I will check back in with you so you won't be left alone. You will get to come and have something to say. So I'm only asking for the short time, and then I will check in with you again. And that's, in fact, I hope what we did at the end was to check in with that judgemental part and say, how are you feeling now?

Toward whatever part you were talking to. Um, and hopefully there was a softening in that. Um, so those are a couple things to do. I don't know if that answers the question completely. 

Well, these, sometimes they call these kinds of things questions and responses, right? Because, uh, answers can often be multifaceted or there's many different kinds of answers, but a, a lovely response.

Thank you. Um, when it comes to an inner critic, uh, Lona, Amy, you know, we all have 'em, you know, how have you found, um, your, how have you found, uh, ways to. To, I guess just to, I'll just say to deal with it, you know, a as Janette is teaching us how to deal with that part of our, our mind.

I think part of it for me has been, um, finding messages to replace that. Um, and, and I say along with that, and maybe even before that, just the more I have. Learned to accept God's grace for me and find plenty of room and spaciousness in that. Um, so that it's, it's able to absorb some of that or what, what I, my inner critic might be criticizing to be able to go.

Okay. That's, that's one of those parts. And there's room for that too. And there's grace and love around that and I don't have to be perfect. 

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. 

If I get out a little, I have found for me, if I really listened to that part, I came to discover that whatever I did, I should have done something different.

And when I was able to see that, like, you know, I did this thing and the voice came that said, oh, you shouldn't have done that. You should have done the other thing you were thinking about. And for some reason God's grace. I think I was able in a moment to look at that and say, you know, if I had done the other thing, you'd have been telling me I should have done the thing I actually did.

And when I realized that was like, oh, so no matter what I do, I'm wrong. I lose. This can't be true. And I could see that it was lying. And then I learned to say to myself when the voice would come up that would say, well, you should have done this, or You should be doing that, or blah, blah, blah. You know, that kind of stuff.

I could say to myself, is this helping me? Is this useful for me? And usually the answer was no. And then I could let it go. This isn't gonna be helpful or useful to me. This isn't making me a better person. And it wasn't. Was making me a worse person for feeling crummy, um, that being hard on yourself doesn't make you a better person.

And so then if it's not useful and it's not helpful, let it go. Wow. 

Thank you. Thank you. Amy. I saw you nodding. Do you wanna chip in on that one? 

Yes, thank you. I have a tendency to just create a lot of noise and some people call it spiraling or swirling or something like that, but I think a lot of us can just get in our head and start getting fixated on certain things.

Um, I, one of the things that I have found to be helpful for me is really kind of goes back to that verse in second Corinthians, um, ten five, which says, Well, we demolish, I did have to, I don't have this memorized. Sorry. I'm not a great memorizer, but, uh, we demolish arguments in every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought and make it obedient to Christ.

So when I start getting and going down those roads, a lot of times I'm thinking, oh, I, I kind of have to check myself and say, is this true? Is this actually how it is? Or am I creating issues? That don't necessarily exist. And some of that may be about, I mean, you know, obviously I'm here to talk about health in our body and, um, am am I doing, am I walking in where God wants me?

And if not, then I need to take cap of that thought and I need to push it out and not worry so much about what is going on in here, when really I need to be concerned about what's going on in here and, uh, where God wants me right now. 

Oh, and I love that verse, by the way. I remember that from when I was a kid.

I'm my mom, I'm sure, who taught me about it. Uh, take captive every thought, make it obedient to Christ. But at the time when I was a teenager, I thought it was always about moral thoughts or immoral thoughts. And now in my forties I realize it's much more like these kinds of thoughts, these, these, uh, false sort of shaming thoughts.

Those are, and when those, when any of those kinds of thoughts be they, any of those categories captive to Christ, again, as a teenager, always felt subservient. And so therefore it wasn't very attractive. Uh, you know, to, to be captive to anyone. Cause I wanted to be free cause I was a teenager. Right? And only now 30 years later do I realize how, how much freedom there is in being captive to Christ.

And so that, that's the whole point, right, is that this is a freeing, uh, to let go of these things that really are keeping us captive until they're captive to Christ. So, thank you ladies. I'm gonna bounce it right back to you, Amy. Um, now this is a, is really not a question, but I'm gonna turn it into a question cause I'm quite curious to hear about it.

Um, in fact, I'll make a joke. The question is, how do you sleep at night? No, but the real question is ways to increase natural melatonin. Good, otherwise known as how do you sleep at night? Uh, right. If I'm not mistaken, melatonin, a natural chemical occurring in our mind, right in our brain, uh, that helps, uh, tell our body to go to sleep, to get ready for sleep.

Um, so I guess the general spirit of the question, of course about that particularly, and also how do you sleep at night? So Amy, what you sleep at, can you speak to that, Amy, that natural melatonin 

piece? Yes. Well, like I mentioned, uh, when I was speaking earlier, I think getting sunlight at the beginning of the day and at the end of the day, Um, is really, or, and not sunlight at the end of the day, but being outside, uh, if possible, and I realize this is a lot easier said than done, but uh, that is really helpful.

There are a few foods that can be beneficial and helpful. Tart cherries are one of the few natural sources of melatonin. Um, I purchased. Some tart cherry juice, and they actually even have capsules. It's from a place called King Orchards and it's out of Michigan. So that has been, that can be a helpful thing.

Um, also it's really great, it's an anti and, uh, inflammatory as well. Um, other foods, like, you know, you've heard about Turkey and Thanksgiving that has ri ahan in it, which will help convert to melatonin. Uh, but the thing about sleeping well is it's not, it's just like, Fueling yourself. Well, there's not one single pill.

There's not one single thing that you can do. It's this habit and it's this creating, uh, space. It's also like taking the time to wind your body down. When I had toddlers, I couldn't just decide right at seven 30, all right, it's time to go to bed. Eight o'clock, it's time to go to bed. We kind of had to have that rhythm, and so allowing our body to know and to train it.

That. Okay. Well first I'm going to watch, you know, an hour of show and then I'm going to go wash my face and then I'm going to read and just kind of winding your body down. Uh, I do recommend it's season 15, episode one. Uh, with Morgan Adams, it's a wonderful, very helpful, um, episode on Sleeping Better. So I'm trying to recall off the top of my head all the things that she mentioned, but she's actually the wisdom behind a lot of it.

And like I said, Huberman Lab has a really great podcast as well, but, uh, melatonin is absolutely helpful in sleeping well. But so is other things in terms of just having overall good sleep hygiene. 

Helpful. I was gonna ask about that phrase, sleep hygiene. That's what popped into, into my head. That sounds like I have that right.

Sleep hygiene. 

Sleep hygiene. Yeah. So like not having your tele television on, um, not, you know, limiting the screens. I'm actually, I have to admit, I'm sitting here at six 30 and it's dark outside and I'm like, Ooh, this would not, this is not sleep approved. You know, because like reducing the, uh, the glare of the screens.

And, um, another thing that she mentioned is not having what she calls naked carbs. So if you're gonna, so. Pair your carbohydrates throughout the day with some fats and some proteins, so it stabilizes your blood sugar so you're not having those high blood sugar spikes in the middle of the night or right when you're going to bed.

But overall, it's, it's a combination of things, not just one, uh, not just melatonin. 

So I should stop eating Sour Patch kids right before bed? Is that what I'm hearing? 

It is recommended that you. Minimize that mic. Yes. Minimize 

So gracious. Minimize the sour patch kids. Minimize the sour patch. Uh, how Janette, uh, Lorette, how, how do you sleep at night?

I'm 

just gonna keep saying it. I love my 

sleep, so I don't want anything to get in the way of that. I don't usually have a lot of trouble going to sleep unless I have caffeine in the evening. And then, That's not so good. But one thing I tell my clients who have trouble sleeping is, um, there's an app called Calm, c a l M, and it has some meditative things that help you slow down.

Um, also there's, um, they're all kinds of meditation things on, uh, YouTube, but I like the one different ones by Michael Sealy, s e a l e y. He has the most. You know, deep like sexy voice that's just so easy to listen to. Yeah. Like that.

And although it's on YouTube, so you have to kind of turn the green away and you don't get to see all the pretty pictures, just listening to his voice and following what he says about breathing and think about this, and that is very calming. 

That's, uh, thank you for that. And thank, I mean for the recommendation, Lorena, 

I'm a big hoberman lab lab cast, right?

Am I saying that right? It just went out of my head. Yes. Um, fan two and I would recommend as well his. Um, episode on sleep. It was really good. I think one thing I've learned from him is the sunlight or light, at least first thing in the morning as much as possible end of the day. And I was really good at that in the fall, and it's a lot harder to do in the winter.

But, um, I've also, sometimes listening something to something as I go to sleep really helps. The Prayer You Go podcast, as I talked about it has something called Examine, which is kind of a review at the end of the day. So sometimes I've listened to that. Um, Also on YouTube, the Yuga Yoga Nira podcasts or YouTube videos that kind of talk you through relaxation at the end of the day have been really helpful.

But I agree too, just that that evening routine of slowing down and I have not been good about that all my life. Boy, when I had little people at home, it was like zoom to the very end and then crash and um, and so that's part of the gift of having a little more space in my life is being able to build in more of that, that end of the day slow down time.

Yeah. Thank you for that. I, uh, I'm sure that a l first of all, I'm looking out and like everybody has managed to stay here I think all day. Maybe we've lost a few people here and there, but, uh, I did see somebody just yawn. So one thing you can do is go to a women's weekend all day, you'll sleep great. Um, alright, so que uh, Lorena, I want to bounce this now, this ball into your court, this question, uh, I'm really excited to hear from you and then again from everybody.

Um, how have you felt led by God? Do you hear his voice in deep prayer or have things unfold that are his leading or, and then they put a question mark? I don't always know or feel where God is leading. Despite praying. Hmm. So can you speak to that sense of leadership, uh, God's leadership in your life, and then of course love to hear from everybody.

Yeah. Yeah. 

That's a great question. And it's so, um, it's so there's no one clear cut answer, right? I'm gonna pray this certain prayer to God and I'm gonna get this certain answer in this certain way. I think part of it is, is learning, um, Learning to listen to ourselves and our bodies and trusting that God's speaking to us through that.

Um, I think, you know, going back to some of what Jeanette was talking about and just. Just the embodied part of us. What, what is, what is, what do I hear a yes to? What do I hear a no to? And I think the more we learn to, um, be in touch with our bodies and trust that we can start to identify that and say, okay, yes, like there's a certain energy, there's certain ventral vagal energy maybe that comes up around that, that's a yes for me.

And then there's times where it's just, ooh, everything in me feel feels a no. And being willing to, to trust that and to speak from that place and knowing that when I do do that, um, I'm going to be in a better place. If I'm saying, if I'm saying yes to, if I'm stepping out into something that I felt had a felt sense of this is the right.

This is the right thing. And so I think part of that, that does come in prayer, that does come in taking time to be quiet. It does come in just listening to life circumstances too. Um, some conversations with some of you earlier, and I know this has certainly been true from in my life or. All of a sudden a door opens very unexpectedly.

And so you kind of step in a little bit and hmm. And then another door opens and another door opens. And I really think, I mean, that's what I've told my boys over time. I, I think life unfolds for us much more than it is. This is the next step I'm gonna choose to take and the next just step I'm gonna choose to take.

But I think it's being in tune too and being willing to listen to what that unfolding is, um, as we ask God to, to lead us and make those things known to us. 

Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Amy, 

please. Yeah, I would actually add love to add on to that. So I was listening to Lona earlier and I, I loved how you were talking about being still and leading people to be still, I have found.

That some of the biggest changes in my life have not come from extensive research or prayer, even prayer, quite honestly. But it is just taking the time. I, you know, I love that, uh, passage of be Still and know that I'm God and I just would sit outside with God, not a laundry list of praises. Not a long list of prayers, but just.

Being in his presence. And I do realize that that's a little bit of a luxury and it's kind of hard to take 10 minutes a day to do something like that. But carving out the margin of time to start to hear whispers and then start to feel that, like what you were talking about with the embodiment, just that persistent feeling, um, that won't go away, I feel often is God.

Just gently leading me on that shoulder. It's not a shove, it's not a push, but it's just, Hey, hey, hey, we're gonna go here. And so I think creating that space to actually hear him, it's really hard to hear whispers in the noise of the world. 

I, I would only add that. Um, God has given us our deepest desires.

When we think about desire, we also, we often think about, um, sexuality and then we get scared and run away and think desires are bad and they can be. Um, they usually are good desires that got twisted, but our deepest desires. Are God-given, they are part of our uniqueness as people and each of us like Think about a diamond, and each of us is a facet of that diamond that shows a different part of who God is to the world.

That comes out of our desire. And, um, you know, like Lorena was saying, listening to yourself and listening for those deepest desires, God's put them there. And so his leading is often through what brings us life like f Fred Frederick b Bakner says, um, our purpose in life is where our, um, deepest joy meets the world's deepest need.

And you know, that sounds really profound and it is, and you could take out deepest, but it's still where, you know, our joy meets a need in the world. That's, um, kind of our calling. So listening matters a lot. 

That's great. I'm reminded of Kurt Thompson, who's I've been reading lately and, uh, highly recommend.

Yeah. You're familiar with Kurt Thompson? Yeah. And uh, one of the things he writes in his book, anatomy of the Soul, is to pay attention to what you're paying attention to as a first step. So if I find myself not feeling like I'm hearing from God or being led by God, I, I want to take a step back and, and examine, well, what have I've been paying attention to, to begin with?

And that may help me discover not only why I'm not feeling that leadership, and then I, I may find a new avenue for feeling and, and hearing God or whatever the metaphor is cuz we don't necessarily hear. Right. Uh, but so pay attention to what you're paying attention to when it comes to desire. I'm so glad you said that because that word has been co-opted in so many ways.

Excuse me. James Houston, uh, who was a professor at Regent College, wrote a book called The Heart's Desire. And it is a theology, but it's a, it's a cool, it's a biblical theology of desire to help us reframe desire as the Bible puts it forth and not just as the world puts it forth. So if you're taking notes and you're a, a, a lover of books, James Houston, uh, the Heart's Desire.

Now we've heard a little bit about busyness already and I actually have, I think our. Four or five questions that I lumped together, and I'm gonna just choose the one that's the most general, because they're all kind of about the same thing. It says here, what are some suggestions for finding time for a spiritual practice or for mental health, or for physical wellness, for finding time when your life is very busy?

We're all listening. Please solve this for us ladies. Go. Okay. But yeah, anybody jump in on, on that? Because that's, that's clearly an issue that many people want to talk about today. And, and we all, we all struggle with. What, how have you, how have you made time for the things that you, that are, you're finding helpful in your life?

I love the bathroom idea. When you get overwhelmed, um, you know, with what's going on in your office or at home, go to the bathroom. Nobody follows you there. If you have little kids who follow you there, get a lock on the door. So cuz they won't die waiting on the outside for you. They think they will, but they won't.

But just taking that time by yourself, that's, you know, like you said, three more breaths, um, Amy that take that time. It ha it can come in moments or, um, put up a, a, um, They have these funny little sheets with feelings and the little characters that show a face and all the different feelings. I thought that was so profound.

I got that when I was 49 and when I started counseling, I was working with a woman and told her about that and she said, oh yeah, my kindergartner brought that all from school. I'm like, okay, I'm 49. I should go back to kindergarten Anyway. Um, put it on the refrigerator and when you walk by, just check it out and say, which one of these am I feeling?

That takes like two seconds, but it's a way of checking in with what's going on inside of me. Can I get to know myself better? It doesn't have to take a half hour a day. It can take seconds, multiple times a day. Helpful. 

I'll get one of those charts for sure. What, what other, uh, ways have you found helpful in your life?

Yeah, Amy, go ahead. 

Yeah, I have a couple thoughts. Um, one is, especially with regard to exercise or movement, is just reduce your expectations. Uh, I grew up with this mindset of like, I have to work out a full hour, or it just doesn't count, and now I'll do something for 10 minutes, five minutes, 20 minutes, something like that.

But just mo, you know, reducing the expectations. I think that's really helpful. With regard to food, one thing that I do, just because. I'm, I think I'm a little lazy, but I will plan ahead and I will prep ahead. So investing the time on maybe a Saturday or Sunday. To figure out what we're going to have and maybe do a little bit of prepping and cutting vegetables, or maybe we'll grill a whole lot of chicken and use it in various things throughout the week.

Uh, that is what I call kind to my future self, and that may enable you to be able to, number one, fuel your body well. But number two, get that super quick workout in between. Work and dinner or be able to get up a little early. Um, I think that kind of thing can be very helpful as well. And then the other, and I say this in a very neutral, neutral sense because I'm with you as well, but I think we have to be really honest about this and how much time we're spending.

On our phones and scrolling and scrolling and scrolling, I do it too. But, uh, if you have an apple, you know, you can choose. You can see how much time you're spending on your different apps. Uh, Instagram is a big suck. Time suck for me. It might be TikTok, but. It may be that we have a little bit more time than we think we do because we are taking two minutes here, three minutes here, five minutes here.

Whereas if we can kind of bulk up the stuff that we need to be doing, it may be then that we have time for a one mile walk. And again, this is a no judgment zone, but I do think that we have to be honest with how we are spending our time. 

Thanks for that. Yeah. And you're right, uh, the phone thing is, is for everybody here and all the men who aren't here.

All of us, right? Yeah. All of us kids and adults. It's a fascinating mental thing that's happened with the, with the phones. Le Lorna, do you have anything you want to add? 

Yeah, I was just thinking in terms of our, um, particularly our spiritual wellbeing, if we approach it in the sense that God is present with us, always, always, um, part of it is, Just our awareness of that in the everyday moment while we're folding laundry or driving or um, cooking dinner or cleaning up.

That we don't have to necessarily sit down in a set aside half an hour kind of time. I mean, to be honest, for me, I'm able to focus in better. When I do that. Um, so I try to, to make sure that kind of time happens, but God's just as present as I'm doing those other things. And the, the breath prayer is a wonderful way to practice that just as you go along.

And we practiced, um, one set of wording to breath prayer, but you can. You can do your own, you can do it to scripture, you can do it to a prayer that you have, and it's often really helpful if you kind of hone in on like, this is my, this is my prayer, at least for now. And then just have it become just part of a regular rhythm of your day.

I think on the handout that I gave to you, it says on there just almost like a tune that's stuck in your head that you can't get out of your head. Um, so I, I think there's ways like that to fit it in. I know I've tried to find, um, a, I've tried to incorporate some stretching at the end of the day before I go to bed.

And one of the things I do is lay out on my foam rollers like my spine, up and down it with my arms. Wide open, just kind of to stretch my body out. And I've found that's a good time for what I consider kind of a savoring practice of just going back over my day and just kind of recapturing those moments that have been particularly beautiful in my day that I otherwise might just have noticed and passed on by.

So it's something I wanna do anyway, but then I'm layering something on top of it. Um, we had a. A young mom speak to our MOS group. Um, I'm not one of the moms in the, I'm a mentor. I'm in the MOS group. I'm not one of the young moms, but she was just talking about how her time is. The 10 minutes in the car to pick up her kids from school and turns off the radio podcasts or whatever.

And that's just her time to, um, talk to God on the way to be still inwardly and and present. So part of it's being creative too, based on the season in your life. A lot of it has to do with that as well. 

Creative. Sure. Able to change if it's not working. And then of course, gracious to yourself, right?

Mm-hmm. Always, always room for that. Yeah. Well, I can't believe this folks, were actually over time, so I gotta land this plane. I know that we didn't get to every question. If you asked a question for a particular panelist, uh, uh, and you feel bold enough to ask them afterward, I would invite you to do that.

Uh, there's also a couple, uh, question here about the sufficiency of the word and women's fellowship opportunities at U Ppp. C I I'm happy to field especially that last one. Um, and, um, But I do wanna, I do wanna end with this one because it seems important and I don't wanna leave it. Um, and I think that all of you can speak to this from your particular points of view in terms of what you've come to talk about today.

It says here, when does, and this will be our last one, and then we'll, we'll call it a day. When does an issue, we have note. It doesn't say what kind of issue, and this is why I think it could be, everyone can speak to this. When does an issue we have become a deeper issue? Deeper in quotes. And at what point do we seek professional help?

And I didn't wanna leave that unasked because, uh, a, if you asked it, I want you to hear, uh, a response. And, and B, I don't think whoever you are, I don't think you're alone wondering. Um, I try so hard to take care of myself, but when am I out of resources on my own? When should I reach out for help? So I wanna make sure we, we have a second for that and then we'll wrap it up.

So anybody want to jump in on. When does an issue become a deeper issue? At what point do we seek help? Any, any input on that? Maybe Jeanette, I can start with you on that one. 

Sure. That's a really good question and hard to answer. It's pretty individual, but we are not meant to struggle alone again. Um, pain is something we all go through.

Suffering is when we have to go through it alone. So if you, whatever the issue is, if you are finding that, it sounds like if it's getting deeper that things are getting worse, not better, that's an indicator and, and it doesn't have to be a counselor or professional necessarily. It could be good friends that you are able to be open with even one.

But if there isn't, that a professional's a great place to go. 

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I know that you do spiritual direction, of course, as a fitness professional there, there is a fitness professional. There are times when someone says, I, I need help. I can't just go read a book or, or figure this out.

Any input from, from, uh, Amy or Lona on this? When do I go seek help? 

I, the word that comes to mind is stuck when we were somewhere. We're like, I'm just stuck. I know, I know something's off. I'm not functioning like I should be. I'm consumed for something. Um, I, I, my, there's, I see that struggle in relationship.

It's that point where there's something in the way that I wanna get forward to, and the resources that I have aren't getting me there. That's what I'd have to 

offer. Thank you. Amy, last word. 

Sure. I don't know if it's worthy of being the last word, but I had a counselor on, um, my podcast several years ago, and she talked about the difference between, uh, preventative and reparative and how valuable it can be, even if there's not an issue being so deep that you need to do it.

But just getting in and working through and to both Jeanette and Lorena's points. Receiving some resources and tools that you can tap into In terms of the, on the fitness side, nutrition side, um, I think it's just when you just need someone in your corner. And I have that too. I have a fitness professional friend.

Um, I'll be really honest, lately I've been super stale in my workouts and I'm calling her saying, I, I just need some ideas. So I just think sometimes we need to remember that we like you, like you said, we are not meant to struggle alone. And there is so much power and wisdom that can come from other people.

You may not have to do exactly what they say, but it kind of, it's that custom lip color that I talked about and, and figuring out what works for you. And there's no harm in it. There's no harm in finding, um, someone to sit with you and either work through your spiritual or your emotional or your physical challenges.

That may seem like they're not big enough, but if you're stuck, then. It's worth ha asking someone to come help walk alongside you whether they are a professional or they might just have some good wisdom that they can offer. 

Well, thanks so much, Amy. Thank you Jeanette. And Lorena as well. Thank you for all of you who submitted questions.

You clearly submitted excellent questions. So excellent. We ran out of time, but I want to thank the panelists again and ask you all to give them a huge Bible Jazz farewell and thank you. We'll see you next time.

Bye. Bible Jazz is a podcast of University Place Presbyterian Church 

Music is by Kevin McLeod. You can learn 

more@upc.org.