Dori Engal - Staging Resilience: An Israeli Theatre Artist’s Journey in War-Torn Israel

1 00:00:00,311 --> 00:00:01,121 Green Room on Air. 2 00:00:01,431 --> 00:00:02,271 Green Room on Air. 3 00:00:04,641 --> 00:00:09,801 The podcast is issued beyond the velvet curtains and into the repulsing heart of the entertainment world. 4 00:00:11,870 --> 00:00:16,579.999 Hey folks, this is Ray Ranati and you have reached Green Room on Air. 5 00:00:17,329.999 --> 00:00:18,900 How y'all doing? I hope you're doing alright. 6 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,840 The world's in a shambles, but we'll make it. 7 00:00:23,815 --> 00:00:29,225 We will survive as we always have as a race the human race today. 8 00:00:29,225 --> 00:00:30,735 We have a very special guest. 9 00:00:30,735 --> 00:01:00,350 His name is mr Dory Engel, and he is an actor and director and independent three theater producer from Israel I know Dory from my time at the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art many years ago Dory is a passionate theater artist and I am so glad that he's on the show today I have so much feeling and empathy for the people of Israel And Palestine right now and Dory talks about that in length and in detail, and it's extremely interesting. 10 00:01:00,990 --> 00:01:04,370.001 Dory is a very, very talented theater artists. 11 00:01:04,430.001 --> 00:01:09,310.001 He's performed at all the major theaters in Israel and it's produced incredible. 12 00:01:09,785.001 --> 00:01:13,445.001 Shows on his own, so I am so happy to have him here. 13 00:01:13,995.001 --> 00:01:19,155.001 So I think, folks, without any further ado, I bring you Mr. 14 00:01:19,155.001 --> 00:01:20,185.001 Dore Angle. 15 00:01:21,525.001 --> 00:01:22,345.001 It's great to see you. 16 00:01:22,365.001 --> 00:01:33,115.001 Now, we were at RADA together, how many years ago? Royal Academy of Dramatic Art? 2009. 17 00:01:35,15.001 --> 00:01:39,594.9 2009? That's this is 223, so that's 14 years or so? 14 years. 18 00:01:39,595 --> 00:01:40,425 14 years. 19 00:01:40,915.001 --> 00:01:41,775.001 Yeah. 20 00:01:42,295.001 --> 00:01:42,995.001 It's hard to believe. 21 00:01:43,600.001 --> 00:01:44,910.001 It is hard to believe. 22 00:01:46,190.001 --> 00:02:00,839.999 So what are you up to now? Are you working on any theatrical projects? Well, it's all been stopped since the war began, so we don't see any cultural events here at all. 23 00:02:01,210 --> 00:02:01,900 Okay. 24 00:02:01,970 --> 00:02:05,160 The whole country, no shows, no entertainment at all. 25 00:02:05,580 --> 00:02:18,620.0005 What you, what you do see is amazing artists going to volunteer, you know, to shelters places where you have you know families of evacuees from, from the south towns and villages. 26 00:02:19,120.0005 --> 00:02:24,700.0005 So they go there to, you know, to entertain the people and to, you know, to use the children. 27 00:02:25,440.0005 --> 00:02:28,270.0005 Yeah, but so all, all my projects stopped. 28 00:02:28,270.0005 --> 00:02:30,430.0005 I'm, I've been directing teaching. 29 00:02:30,710.0005 --> 00:02:35,630.0005 I was about to start directing the crucible Arthur Miller in an acting studio. 30 00:02:35,955.0015 --> 00:02:41,985.0015 In Ramat Gan, which is practically Tel Aviv, but now even in Tel Aviv, you have you know, missiles and alarms. 31 00:02:42,665.0015 --> 00:02:50,425.0025 So we are currently at my wife's family in the, in a northern town in Israel. 32 00:02:51,705.0005 --> 00:02:52,569.9015 We're staying there. 33 00:02:52,810.0015 --> 00:02:53,280.0015 I see. 34 00:02:53,360.0015 --> 00:02:54,640.0015 Oh, so you had to move. 35 00:02:55,370.0015 --> 00:02:55,800.0015 Yeah. 36 00:02:57,650.0015 --> 00:02:58,500.0015 My wife's a nurse. 37 00:02:58,990.0015 --> 00:03:02,70.0015 So she's she's commuting to Tel Aviv. 38 00:03:02,400.0015 --> 00:03:04,740.0015 She's, she works there in a hospital. 39 00:03:06,150.0015 --> 00:03:06,480.0015 Yeah. 40 00:03:06,530.0015 --> 00:03:13,100.0015 And for me, like all, all the, all the shows, all the rehearsals canceled until further notice. 41 00:03:13,140.0015 --> 00:03:17,740.0005 So I'm, I'm here with, with our daughter with our three year old daughter. 42 00:03:19,700.0005 --> 00:03:21,180.0015 Oh, you have a three year old daughter. 43 00:03:21,180.0015 --> 00:03:22,320.0015 Congratulations. 44 00:03:22,970.0005 --> 00:03:27,765.0015 Do you have any other kids? Just the three year old girl? No, no, just, Just her. 45 00:03:27,795.0015 --> 00:03:28,135.0015 Yeah. 46 00:03:28,355.0015 --> 00:03:28,985.0015 All right. 47 00:03:29,545.0015 --> 00:03:30,365.0015 She is amazing. 48 00:03:30,365.0015 --> 00:03:44,465.0005 So now that I think my, most of my efforts are to, you know, to keep this bubble of, you know, of warmth and nice activities because there are no, There's no kindergarten, you know, so so everything's been put on hold. 49 00:03:45,195.0005 --> 00:03:45,585.0005 Yeah. 50 00:03:45,625.0005 --> 00:03:45,835.0005 Yeah. 51 00:03:45,835.0005 --> 00:03:46,525.0005 Pretty much. 52 00:03:47,115.0005 --> 00:03:52,974.9995 So when you say help, helping when the artists are going there to entertain and. 53 00:03:54,380.0005 --> 00:03:56,970.0005 Give comfort to the people from the South. 54 00:03:56,980.0005 --> 00:04:04,720.0005 Are you talking about? Refugees from Gaza, or are you talking about Israelis or both? Okay. 55 00:04:04,720.0005 --> 00:04:05,100.0005 Yeah. 56 00:04:05,130.0005 --> 00:04:18,49.9995 So I I think, yeah, to make it clear for, for those who, yeah, hear the news and are not deeply involved in this, because we get, I don't think we get a lot of accuracy over here. 57 00:04:19,339.9995 --> 00:04:19,759.9995 Yeah. 58 00:04:20,39.9995 --> 00:04:20,789.9995 Yeah. 59 00:04:20,889.9995 --> 00:04:27,0.0005 I can't tell you unfortunately the things that are so clear from our perspective, it's all so numb. 60 00:04:27,340.0005 --> 00:04:27,810.0005 complex. 61 00:04:28,400.0005 --> 00:04:42,429.9995 But you know, this current war situation began when there was a very cruel Hamas attack on on civilians in the southern border, the border with Gaza. 62 00:04:43,629.9995 --> 00:04:53,379.9995 So in a very cruel attack and our army somehow wasn't prepared enough for this kind of attack. 63 00:04:53,829.9995 --> 00:04:57,949.9985 And and the terrorists could, you know, break the. 64 00:04:58,924.9995 --> 00:05:07,914.9995 The fans, the border and invaded towns and just massacred and also took hostages. 65 00:05:07,944.9995 --> 00:05:14,434.9995 There are like around 200 people kidnapped children and families in Gaza right now. 66 00:05:15,54.9985 --> 00:05:22,314.9985 So people from these towns, the survivors were evacuated to other places. 67 00:05:22,729.9985 --> 00:05:30,609.9985 And shelters and, and the, these are the places where some artists go and, you know, and and entertain. 68 00:05:30,619.9985 --> 00:05:31,139.9985 I see. 69 00:05:31,169.9985 --> 00:05:31,669.9985 Okay. 70 00:05:32,19.9975 --> 00:05:42,259.998 I guess they, they have moved, they've been moved to a safer place and we in Israel, we don't have any contact to Palestinians in Gaza. 71 00:05:42,749.998 --> 00:05:45,209.998 Of course, the situation there is terrible because of. 72 00:05:46,284.998 --> 00:06:08,439.898 Israeli bombing, so they have their refugees and there's some relief in the fact that I heard also in the news that the UN succeeded to create some, some refugee tents and some areas so people can be safe because because these bombings are very cruel as well to civilians. 73 00:06:08,799.998 --> 00:06:16,449.998 And so the, but we don't have contact with them and just to make the situation even more complex. 74 00:06:16,449.998 --> 00:06:22,209.998 I can just say that there are not only Jews, of course, in Israel. 75 00:06:22,699.998 --> 00:06:32,319.998 There are Palestinian Israelis, Israeli citizens that they don't live in the West Bank, they don't live in Gaza, but they are Palestinians and they are Israeli citizens. 76 00:06:32,879.997 --> 00:06:43,729.997 So imagine the situation that you are some of these Israeli Arabs, Israeli Palestinians have been injured or killed by these attacks. 77 00:06:44,639.998 --> 00:06:47,279.998 Some of these Palestinians. 78 00:06:47,754.998 --> 00:06:49,544.998 have families in Gaza. 79 00:06:51,104.998 --> 00:06:55,474.998 So they are being attacked and then part of their families are being bombed. 80 00:06:56,774.998 --> 00:07:06,274.998 And now if you show any identification or empathy towards Palestinian civilians being bombed or being injured. 81 00:07:06,804.998 --> 00:07:16,434.998 You are treated with with criticism because in, in, in the public now, they don't want to hear about freedom to Palestine. 82 00:07:16,624.998 --> 00:07:17,4.998 Right. 83 00:07:17,404.997 --> 00:07:19,74.996 And we have a government. 84 00:07:19,669.997 --> 00:07:26,829.997 Led and ruled by extreme rightists that don't see even Palestinians as, as, as human beings. 85 00:07:27,919.997 --> 00:07:33,739.998 So so there's a lot of racism going on that, that increases the confusion. 86 00:07:34,859.998 --> 00:07:38,69.998 Yeah, so that is a very sad situation. 87 00:07:40,139.998 --> 00:07:40,749.998 Yeah, we are. 88 00:07:40,749.998 --> 00:07:42,789.998 We are deeply depressed here. 89 00:07:43,9.998 --> 00:07:46,979.9975 I feel more depressed than I have been. 90 00:07:46,979.9975 --> 00:07:53,109.998 I think during this conflict, you always have, you know. 91 00:07:54,324.998 --> 00:08:10,469.898 In my work as an artist, you know, whether it's theatre or independent theatre maker, I try to see myself in a way as an activist to work and collaborate with Palestinians and Israelis as much as I can, which is Thank you. 92 00:08:11,319.998 --> 00:08:25,479.998 Mostly with with the Israeli Palestinians, right? Because we cannot really collaborate with those in the, in the West Bank or Gaza, but I can just tell you about 1 project that that we did just a year ago. 93 00:08:26,209.997 --> 00:08:27,119.998 It was a. 94 00:08:28,239.998 --> 00:08:44,39.996 We created a group of, of Palestinian Israeli artists an adaptation of Romeo and Juliet in Arabic and Hebrew, and there was, it was such a unique experience, even a therapeutic experience in a way for us to meet together. 95 00:08:44,89.996 --> 00:08:59,290.097 Some of the crew, some of the people haven't worked with, with, with artists from the other side of the narrative and collaborating and acting in in Hebrew and Arabic. 96 00:08:59,600.097 --> 00:09:04,90.098 And we also toured with this production to Germany to a few cities. 97 00:09:04,90.098 --> 00:09:11,950.098 And it was such a special feeling that we, we felt that we bring some hope for a different perspective for a different future. 98 00:09:12,250.098 --> 00:09:14,750.098 And we show the world even that, that. 99 00:09:15,780.098 --> 00:09:16,710.098 People are people. 100 00:09:16,770.098 --> 00:09:24,480.098 And when there's love and there's hope, and we want to, to spread love and not hate, something can change. 101 00:09:25,20.098 --> 00:09:36,990.098 And with this situation going now or going on now, we, we have a WhatsApp group and we, we try to keep in touch and here if everybody's safe and all that. 102 00:09:37,490.098 --> 00:09:40,810.098 And there's there's a lot of depression, this experience. 103 00:09:42,255.098 --> 00:09:45,435.098 All of a sudden, it looks so far away, and it's... 104 00:09:46,960.098 --> 00:09:55,420.098 That's if in a fantasy, the, the experience of Romeo and Juliet and the lottery that you've had there, you know, yeah, of the hope. 105 00:09:55,930.098 --> 00:10:02,870.098 So you, you really don't know what's going to happen next and if there's a hope for, for a change in this area. 106 00:10:04,510.098 --> 00:10:04,950.098 Yeah. 107 00:10:06,730.098 --> 00:10:12,80.098 You know, the only thing I can relate to 9 11, but we're a much bigger country. 108 00:10:12,80.098 --> 00:10:14,960.098 So most of us didn't know anybody in that disaster. 109 00:10:15,615.098 --> 00:10:33,725.098 But we had a similar thing, you know, we had a very right wing government and even all the left wing government officials decided to exact revenge, you know, on Iraq and Afghanistan claiming it wasn't revenge. 110 00:10:34,960.098 --> 00:10:39,870.098 But it was because there was so much anger that's not my 1st response. 111 00:10:39,870.098 --> 00:10:41,290.098 It sounds like it's not yours. 112 00:10:43,0.098 --> 00:10:44,740.098 So it's painful to watch. 113 00:10:45,170.097 --> 00:10:47,530.098 Gosh, I'm getting all I'm getting tearing up. 114 00:10:47,530.098 --> 00:10:48,290.098 Just talking about it. 115 00:10:49,150.098 --> 00:10:50,360.098 I feel really bad for you. 116 00:10:50,550.098 --> 00:10:54,800.098 And all and all of your and everyone there, you know it's really affected me. 117 00:10:55,170.098 --> 00:10:57,80.098 I try to, I try to get a balanced view. 118 00:10:57,80.098 --> 00:11:01,740.098 I watch, I watch like CNN and ABC news, you know, our main stations. 119 00:11:01,740.098 --> 00:11:11,310.098 And then I switch over and I watch Al Jazeera and then I see there's people suffering horribly everywhere. 120 00:11:12,0.098 --> 00:11:15,560.097 Innocent people have nothing who are just trying to live. 121 00:11:16,380.097 --> 00:11:20,440.098 Those are the people who suffer and the people with the power never do. 122 00:11:22,70.098 --> 00:11:23,80.098 Yeah, exactly. 123 00:11:23,840.098 --> 00:11:24,40.098 And. 124 00:11:24,710.098 --> 00:11:25,610.098 Everyone's the same. 125 00:11:25,610.098 --> 00:11:26,620.098 Everyone has children. 126 00:11:26,630.098 --> 00:11:33,690.098 Everyone wants to just live their life and love their families and do the best they can. 127 00:11:33,690.098 --> 00:11:36,170.098 And it's not, it's not going to be allowed, you know. 128 00:11:37,915.098 --> 00:11:57,815.097 Yeah, I totally feel that these feelings are all these questions are here in the air among people I talk with and I cannot in any way judge people, the anger on the will for revenge of people in grief, you know, people who lost their loved ones. 129 00:11:59,855.098 --> 00:12:02,105.098 But this is always a question. 130 00:12:02,165.098 --> 00:12:17,325.097 And there's a famous poem by a Palestinian poet, Mahmoud Darwish, who says, excuse me for paraphrasing, something like, in the end, the war will end and the leaders will shake their hands. 131 00:12:17,635.098 --> 00:12:30,175.098 Yes, but the, the old mother will still wait for her dead son and the wife will still wait for her beloved husband and the children will still wait for their hero father. 132 00:12:30,805.098 --> 00:12:31,765.097 I don't know. 133 00:12:31,775.097 --> 00:12:37,45.098 He says who sold whose land to whom, but I know who paid the price. 134 00:12:37,535.098 --> 00:12:38,615.098 Oh, God. 135 00:12:39,835.098 --> 00:12:40,255.098 Yeah. 136 00:12:40,975.098 --> 00:12:41,615.098 So true. 137 00:12:42,705.098 --> 00:12:48,575.098 That's a very, very true when it's very impactful. 138 00:12:48,605.098 --> 00:12:49,385.0975 And yeah. 139 00:12:51,280.0975 --> 00:12:55,880.0975 The crucible, you are going to do the crucible and now you're not that it's on hold. 140 00:12:55,880.0975 --> 00:12:57,420.0975 Maybe you'll be able to do it again. 141 00:12:58,110.0975 --> 00:13:01,690.097 Yeah, sort of an apropos play for what's happening right now. 142 00:13:01,690.097 --> 00:13:02,110.0975 It's too bad. 143 00:13:02,300.0975 --> 00:13:02,860.0965 You can't do it. 144 00:13:04,65.0975 --> 00:13:17,175.0965 Actually, I thought about this idea because, you know before this war began, we were in the middle of protests against our government's behavior. 145 00:13:17,185.0955 --> 00:13:23,15.0965 I mentioned before that there are real extremists and I think you know, the word. 146 00:13:23,535.0965 --> 00:13:44,439.9965 Hundreds of thousands of people going to the streets to protest against actions, which might change the way this state acts and behaves, you know, a lot of laws to weaken the Supreme Court to give more power to the government, which could. 147 00:13:44,760.0965 --> 00:13:52,480.0965 Might even not be you know we might not even be able to balance this power or to criticize this power. 148 00:13:52,520.0965 --> 00:13:58,480.0965 So it's, it's getting out of territories of democracy in the territories of dictatorship. 149 00:13:59,30.0955 --> 00:14:04,170.0975 So I think, you know, when you speak, when you, when you think about the crucible. 150 00:14:04,575.0975 --> 00:14:17,95.0975 And the way people are being, you know, brainwashed towards, you know, black and right, and these are the enemies, and this is the justice, and, and the result is the opposite. 151 00:14:17,125.0975 --> 00:14:25,895.0985 The result is, is is hatred, is cruelty, and so against this wave I think there, there must be a reaction. 152 00:14:26,225.0985 --> 00:14:54,685.098 Yes, yes, it's, you know, we, we have a similar thing going on here, even Joe Biden now, who is the Democrat when it, when push comes to shove you know, he's going to stick with your, your right wing government, make no criticism at all, give them, we're giving more money than over the 6 billion or whatever we give something like that every year now. 153 00:14:56,305.098 --> 00:15:07,5.098 And he's just doing it on his own, you know the president of the United States I want, I want him to help push for peace, but that's, that's not what's happening. 154 00:15:08,685.097 --> 00:15:09,795.0965 I don't know what else to say. 155 00:15:09,795.0965 --> 00:15:14,635.0975 It's just it's so sad, you know, so when I was a kid growing up. 156 00:15:16,670.0975 --> 00:15:23,960.0975 The things that scared the hell out of me were Vietnam, the Vietnam war, because I was afraid I was going to have to go. 157 00:15:24,230.0975 --> 00:15:29,650.0965 Fortunately, it ended a few years before that happened and conflict in the Middle East. 158 00:15:30,200.0975 --> 00:15:40,520.0975 And, and this constant fear I had that it was going to cause another world war and, and now I'm 62 years old and it's still, it's still the thing. 159 00:15:40,765.0975 --> 00:15:52,435.0975 You know, what's the solution? How, how, how is peace going to happen? Do you have any idea? I can't think of one. 160 00:15:54,35.0975 --> 00:16:01,625.0965 Yeah, it's, it's terrible to think that generation after generation, people grew up in side this conflict. 161 00:16:01,625.0965 --> 00:16:11,745.0975 And when I think about Palestinian children, yeah, since 67 before, you know, the conflict began and there were, yeah, but, but. 162 00:16:12,510.0975 --> 00:16:20,970.0975 Under occupation in Gaza, in the West Bank, children are grow up with this situation as a reality. 163 00:16:21,450.0975 --> 00:16:22,100.0975 Soldiers... 164 00:16:22,795.0975 --> 00:16:31,345.0975 Riots you know not being able to have freedom of movement and sometimes very rough conditions. 165 00:16:31,405.0975 --> 00:16:32,765.0975 And this is what they know. 166 00:16:32,775.0975 --> 00:16:41,595.0965 This is what they know of, of, of Jews and Israelis, you know, soldiers and guns and there's hatred and there's suffering. 167 00:16:42,980.0975 --> 00:17:15,995.0975 And now with years of settlement being encouraged and buildings, so you can see year after year that the solution is just getting farther away because the way even to make a solution on the map is harder because this is what the extremists want, the settlers, they want to create, you know one bunch of territory, which would be covered with Israeli settler, with Jewish settlements. 168 00:17:16,165.0975 --> 00:17:21,355.0965 So the Palestinians couldn't divide and have their own territories. 169 00:17:22,55.0975 --> 00:17:27,25.0975 And right now they kind of pretty much rule these areas. 170 00:17:27,815.0975 --> 00:17:41,235.0975 And they sometimes chase Palestinians from their lands and, you know from the fields and they act with a lot of violence, not limited by Israeli army, sometimes encouraged by Israeli army. 171 00:17:41,325.0965 --> 00:17:44,329.9975 So it's kind of it's, it's, it's a wild West there. 172 00:17:44,600.0975 --> 00:17:50,850.0975 Yeah, I heard they turn the, they turn a blank eye, you know, they don't really pay attention. 173 00:17:50,850.0975 --> 00:17:51,810.0975 They just let it happen. 174 00:17:52,480.0975 --> 00:17:55,280.0975 Yeah, don't stop the occupation. 175 00:17:55,920.0965 --> 00:18:00,760.0975 So the piece looks more far away. 176 00:18:01,755.0975 --> 00:18:30,980.0975 Yesterday I was watching the news, Arab news and I saw some settlers, yesterday, went to, were in the West Bank, and they just decided to go to some Arab home and shoot it up, for apparently no reason whatsoever I don't really understand, I guess this is a religious thing, the settlements, they believe that they should, Have this land in its entirety based on thousands of years ago. 177 00:18:31,140.0975 --> 00:18:33,200.0975 Is that basically, I think it's a combination. 178 00:18:33,200.0975 --> 00:18:48,200.0985 It's like a nationalism and religion combined and, and they have the, you know, the, the agenda that's very clear agenda of, of taking over, you know, the whole territory. 179 00:18:48,430.0985 --> 00:19:20,265.0975 And to chase away Palestinians, so what are the economies like out there? So, if you move into these settlements, like, what do people do to make money and live? And are there towns where there's Palestinians and Israelis coming together to do commerce or how does all that work? I don't know much, but I, from what I know, there's a lot of money going there from the government, from, you know, very powerful people to, to support this settlements. 180 00:19:20,595.0975 --> 00:19:30,205.0985 And for instance, when you have a new settlement according to the law, not just international law, but also the law in Israel, still the Supreme Court might say this is a. 181 00:19:31,40.0985 --> 00:19:36,990.0985 private Palestinian property in this area, you cannot build a settlement there. 182 00:19:37,310.0985 --> 00:19:48,220.0965 But then the state somehow you know, avoids and this thing do happen in the, in the field, and then there's a lot of money going there. 183 00:19:48,430.0975 --> 00:19:52,860.0965 And then you have money going for, you know, roads and infrastructure. 184 00:19:53,230.0965 --> 00:19:54,830.0965 And you have to send. 185 00:19:55,665.0975 --> 00:20:05,195.0965 People, you know, the army guards and with guns to secure a lot of money going to, you know, for security and all that. 186 00:20:05,195.0965 --> 00:20:18,205.0965 And when you have a Palestinian new village, let's say in a place, which most of the time supposed to be in their own private, you know, territory or, or government usually. 187 00:20:18,470.0965 --> 00:20:43,425.0965 You, you don't get approvals, you know, for buildings and, you know, to, to expand the village, let's say, so they, they limit it more and more, or you have something, you know, blocks and borders to limit the movement, to limit the expansion, you know, the expanding of Palestinian villages, sometimes, you know, because of the violence, they chase them away and then they, get control. 188 00:20:43,735.0965 --> 00:21:02,465.0965 And they you see a lot of plants plantations of olive trees, old hundreds of years old, if trees being, being, being cut by settlers, you know, vandalism, they got, they cut the Palestinian fields and then they, they want to, you know, to, or to take over these fields. 189 00:21:03,680.0965 --> 00:21:09,360.0965 Sometimes cynically you see you know, Palestinians that they need work. 190 00:21:09,630.0965 --> 00:21:15,720.0965 So they go and work in the settler's fields, they go to work to build the settler's houses. 191 00:21:16,460.0965 --> 00:21:16,980.0965 I see. 192 00:21:17,480.0965 --> 00:21:18,40.0965 Wow. 193 00:21:18,150.0965 --> 00:21:31,340.0965 So this is the, the, you know, the few, the, the little that I know, a lot of, a lot of injustice, a lot of Injustice is going on there, and nobody, nobody really stops it. 194 00:21:31,610.0965 --> 00:21:45,790.0965 I, I know some lawyers that I admire, you know, human rights lawyers that are fighting for the freedom of movement, for the freedom of, of, of the rights of Palestinian, their of, of building, of being, of just being there. 195 00:21:46,525.0965 --> 00:21:57,265.0955 Of having their water, because sometimes the settlers or the army are blocking wells of water, so they will not have what to drink and they will have to go away. 196 00:21:59,135.0965 --> 00:22:07,335.0965 Is it true that that's happening in Gaza? Now we're getting reports here that Israel has turned off the water for Gaza. 197 00:22:07,335.0965 --> 00:22:16,685.0965 Is that actually true? I can't say officially, you know, I know, I know as much as you know, but but I, I, I won't be surprised. 198 00:22:17,730.0965 --> 00:22:35,310.0965 Because of what I've seen before, I won't be surprised if the it's, if, if it, if I hear that it's only due to the American pressure, the Biden's pressure that the Israeli government allowed, you know, hu humanitarian support and, and supply. 199 00:22:35,790.0965 --> 00:22:37,410.0965 Unfortunately, I, I've lost. 200 00:22:38,10.0965 --> 00:22:40,700.0965 Confidence and you know trust in my government. 201 00:22:41,445.0965 --> 00:22:44,715.0965 That's they will be as small as I expect them to be. 202 00:22:45,115.0965 --> 00:23:04,795.0965 I thought we'd take just a short break to remind you that if you're enjoying this podcast, please tell your friends and also subscribe to it on your favorite podcasting platform, Apple podcast or Spotify, and also give it a rating really helps in the algorithm. 203 00:23:06,235.0965 --> 00:23:09,855.0965 And we have a website, it's GreenRoomOnAir. 204 00:23:09,875.0965 --> 00:23:10,235.0965 com. 205 00:23:10,245.0965 --> 00:23:12,655.0965 You can also listen to all the episodes there. 206 00:23:13,305.0965 --> 00:23:18,845.0965 In addition, we have a YouTube channel called Green Room On Air with Ray Ranati. 207 00:23:18,845.0965 --> 00:23:22,315.0965 Just search on that and you can find it and subscribe there as well. 208 00:23:22,950.0965 --> 00:23:23,710.0965 Thank you so much. 209 00:23:23,740.0965 --> 00:23:27,470.0965 And now back to my conversation with Dory Engel. 210 00:23:29,340.0965 --> 00:23:40,90.0965 Yeah, well, we have this, not, we don't have it at the same level as you do right now, but the same thing going on here, you know, with Trumpism and make America great again. 211 00:23:40,90.0965 --> 00:23:45,510.0965 And I don't know to what extent you've heard about all this, but It's quite, it's been quite a nightmare. 212 00:23:46,160.0965 --> 00:23:49,640.0965 Families not speaking to one another anymore. 213 00:23:49,830.0965 --> 00:23:56,660.0965 All kinds of violence and Trump's still get having half the votes in the United States. 214 00:23:56,660.0965 --> 00:23:59,260.0955 It looks like if there was an election now, it would be close. 215 00:24:00,260.0965 --> 00:24:08,990.0965 And here he is charged with 91 felonies or misdemeanors and indictments and like a gangster is running for president. 216 00:24:11,30.0965 --> 00:24:11,310.0965 Yeah. 217 00:24:11,330.0965 --> 00:24:16,450.0965 Sounds pretty close to what we, we see in our Parliament. 218 00:24:16,940.0965 --> 00:24:18,390.0965 Yeah, it's very depressing. 219 00:24:18,670.0965 --> 00:24:19,470.0965 Yeah, it is. 220 00:24:19,480.0965 --> 00:24:19,970.0965 It is. 221 00:24:20,50.0965 --> 00:24:29,30.0965 1 thing that you said that I think a lot of Americans don't realize is that there are a lot of Israeli citizens who are Palestinian in Israel. 222 00:24:29,490.0955 --> 00:24:31,570.0965 I don't think a lot of Americans know that. 223 00:24:32,620.0965 --> 00:24:33,80.0965 Yeah. 224 00:24:33,410.0965 --> 00:24:33,770.0965 Yeah. 225 00:24:34,90.0965 --> 00:24:42,570.0965 And so just like you said, just imagine how tormenting that must be for them for their. 226 00:24:43,205.0965 --> 00:24:46,855.0965 And they all, probably most of them have family right over the border. 227 00:24:47,735.0965 --> 00:24:51,675.0965 Yeah, I can't imagine myself how, how tormenting it must be. 228 00:24:51,715.0965 --> 00:24:54,905.0965 And they are torn identity. 229 00:24:55,195.0965 --> 00:24:59,605.0945 And you know, the, yeah, I can't imagine what they're going through. 230 00:24:59,805.0955 --> 00:25:00,235.0955 Yeah. 231 00:25:00,235.1955 --> 00:25:00,954.9955 Yeah. 232 00:25:03,335.0955 --> 00:25:08,785.0955 You know, I met Arthur Miller once really? Yeah. 233 00:25:09,535.0955 --> 00:25:09,905.0955 Yeah. 234 00:25:09,905.0955 --> 00:25:13,55.0955 He there's a lot of noise here that we're getting our roof replaced. 235 00:25:13,655.0955 --> 00:25:15,955.0955 Hopefully it's not going to ruin the recording. 236 00:25:16,325.0945 --> 00:25:18,575.0945 I put the noise suppression on zoom. 237 00:25:18,605.0955 --> 00:25:19,735.0955 So hopefully that'll work. 238 00:25:20,235.0955 --> 00:25:23,945.0945 But, yeah, we had to because we had all this rain and it was raining in the house. 239 00:25:24,85.0945 --> 00:25:25,225.0945 So we're getting a new room. 240 00:25:25,685.0945 --> 00:25:33,835.0945 But yeah, about 25, about 20 or 25 years ago, he came to a university here, San Jose state. 241 00:25:34,445.0935 --> 00:25:42,305.0945 And they had an Arthur Miller, 2 weeks of Arthur Miller shows and all and he came for a few days and I stood in line. 242 00:25:42,305.0945 --> 00:25:43,225.0945 I was the last in line. 243 00:25:43,225.0945 --> 00:25:47,595.0945 It was hours and I got to the front and we talked for about 10 minutes. 244 00:25:48,495.0945 --> 00:25:52,64.9945 Because I had done Death of a Salesman, I had played Biff, like, or just... 245 00:25:52,65.0945 --> 00:25:53,525.0945 A little bit before that. 246 00:25:53,545.0945 --> 00:25:55,765.0945 And and he went to the performance. 247 00:25:56,155.0945 --> 00:25:56,675.0945 He saw you. 248 00:25:56,685.0945 --> 00:25:57,495.0945 No, no, he didn't. 249 00:25:57,495.0945 --> 00:26:02,535.0945 But, but we, but he was there signing autographs that I was the last person in line. 250 00:26:02,545.0945 --> 00:26:06,995.0945 There was hundreds of people and he was who's finally done and he signed my. 251 00:26:07,605.0945 --> 00:26:12,375.0945 Copy of a view from the bridge and and we, we talked for about 10 minutes. 252 00:26:12,375.0945 --> 00:26:14,225.0945 We talked about death of a salesman. 253 00:26:14,235.0945 --> 00:26:26,199.9945 We talked about his, I don't even remember, but did you get some insights from, From him about, About death of a salesman? Not really, not really. 254 00:26:26,420.0945 --> 00:26:27,940.0945 I had known so much about it. 255 00:26:27,940.0945 --> 00:26:34,260.0945 I mean, I knew that he had written the first act in like a week and, you know I was just kind of dumbfounded. 256 00:26:34,260.0945 --> 00:26:35,260.0945 I mean, it was so long ago. 257 00:26:35,260.0945 --> 00:26:37,130.0945 I can't remember exactly what we talked about. 258 00:26:37,130.0945 --> 00:26:39,180.0945 it went on for about 10 minutes. 259 00:26:40,170.0945 --> 00:26:40,510.094 Wow. 260 00:26:40,510.094 --> 00:26:41,210.0935 What an experience. 261 00:26:41,930.0945 --> 00:26:54,270.0945 Yeah, and one of this is a silly thing, but, you know, he was married to Marilyn Monroe and all I had ever seen of that were pictures of him and Marilyn Monroe. 262 00:26:54,270.0945 --> 00:26:57,200.0945 And he looked like such a bookish nerdy guy. 263 00:26:57,570.0935 --> 00:27:02,930.0945 And I was like, what is Marilyn Monroe? The most beautiful woman on earth, you know, marry this guy. 264 00:27:04,410.0945 --> 00:27:05,500.0945 And then when I met him. 265 00:27:05,980.157 --> 00:27:15,100.157 He's like, so, he's like 6'2 super strong and muscular and like, extremely like, virile, and I'm like, okay, I get it now. 266 00:27:16,260.157 --> 00:27:20,930.157 He wasn't this super nerdy guy that I thought, which would have been fine too, but. 267 00:27:21,500.157 --> 00:27:25,860.157 I was always as a kid, I was, I was like, well, how could she have married and look at they don't fit together. 268 00:27:25,890.157 --> 00:27:30,280.157 And then I, I met him and I had completely the wrong impression. 269 00:27:32,580.157 --> 00:27:32,820.1565 Yeah. 270 00:27:32,820.1565 --> 00:27:39,720.156 And I guess, I know that sounds silly, but yeah, you can add to it the charm and the intelligence and all that. 271 00:27:39,730.156 --> 00:27:42,430.1565 So, exactly all those other things. 272 00:27:42,430.1565 --> 00:27:42,770.057 Yeah. 273 00:27:42,770.157 --> 00:27:49,990.157 Then it all made sense to me, you know because for some reason I had this picture of him, sort of like a recluse introverted, mindset. 274 00:27:50,860.157 --> 00:27:53,520.157 Got, you know, that's wasn't what he was at all. 275 00:27:53,830.157 --> 00:27:58,260.157 Yeah, yeah, that was that was a great experience. 276 00:27:59,420.157 --> 00:28:05,440.156 So, so when you did Romeo and Juliet with the cast of Israeli and Palestinian people. 277 00:28:06,75.156 --> 00:28:06,665.156 And that's what it was. 278 00:28:06,665.156 --> 00:28:06,995.156 Right. 279 00:28:07,65.156 --> 00:28:07,445.156 I got that. 280 00:28:07,445.156 --> 00:28:07,685.156 Right. 281 00:28:07,855.156 --> 00:28:08,125.156 Yeah. 282 00:28:08,275.156 --> 00:28:08,475.156 Yeah. 283 00:28:08,505.156 --> 00:28:32,739.956 Did you, did you were the Montagues and Capulets? Were they mixed in terms of national affiliations or did you have like Israelis on 1 side and Palestinians on the other or how did yeah, I, I divided it really to size because it was part of what I wanted to say with display the, I saw display as yeah. 284 00:28:33,330.056 --> 00:28:40,180.056 First and foremost as a love of two young people from two sides of a political conflict. 285 00:28:40,640.056 --> 00:28:41,0.056 Yes. 286 00:28:41,240.056 --> 00:28:41,640.056 Okay. 287 00:28:41,860.056 --> 00:28:43,490.056 A bloody political conflict. 288 00:28:43,560.056 --> 00:28:45,450.056 People are dying for both sides. 289 00:28:45,530.056 --> 00:28:46,650.056 It's danger. 290 00:28:46,930.056 --> 00:28:50,750.056 It's dangerous to, you know, to climb on the wall. 291 00:28:51,140.056 --> 00:28:59,610.055 And go to the balcony of, of, of Juliet and so she says, you know, they will kill you. 292 00:29:00,360.056 --> 00:29:01,990.056 And he says, you know, I don't mind. 293 00:29:01,990.056 --> 00:29:02,490.056 I love you. 294 00:29:03,10.055 --> 00:29:03,450.055 Right. 295 00:29:04,250.055 --> 00:29:13,870.056 The danger is there and seeing it from the perspective of our narratives, identities the conflict, it kind of shed new light. 296 00:29:13,870.056 --> 00:29:14,400.056 And this is. 297 00:29:15,95.056 --> 00:29:31,335.056 What the, you know, the link that I wanted to make, you know, the, the, is there hope for love, for life, for innocence in a bloody area and situation, you know, if people, you know, just. 298 00:29:32,150.056 --> 00:29:52,80.056 You know, promoting hate and death is it possible for a flower to bloom in a graveyard? So, and Romeo was Palestinian and, and all Montagues spoke Arabic and Juliet was Jewish, Israeli, and the whole couple spoke Hebrew. 299 00:29:52,780.056 --> 00:29:58,510.056 And when they, when they met, we kind of played with, with both languages. 300 00:29:58,650.056 --> 00:29:59,170.056 So they. 301 00:29:59,590.056 --> 00:30:10,250.055 We found a way that they could, you know, without changing Shakespeare's words, we switched between Arabic and Hebrew, so because they love each other, they understand each other. 302 00:30:11,560.056 --> 00:30:12,520.056 How wonderful. 303 00:30:12,540.056 --> 00:30:13,250.056 Wow. 304 00:30:14,60.056 --> 00:30:29,350.056 So, do, do audience, do audiences understand both languages on, for the most part? So in Israel, we, we performed our home theater is the Jaffa theater. 305 00:30:29,380.056 --> 00:30:32,850.056 Jaffa is next to, is a town next to Tel Aviv. 306 00:30:32,890.056 --> 00:30:36,810.056 And there's an amazing place called the Arab Hebrew theater. 307 00:30:37,70.056 --> 00:30:42,760.056 It's one of the very few and unique places where you have collaborations. 308 00:30:43,410.056 --> 00:30:45,910.056 and performances in Arabic and Hebrew. 309 00:30:46,270.056 --> 00:30:53,90.055 So most of the Jewish Israelis, unfortunately, including myself, have very poor Arabic. 310 00:30:53,585.056 --> 00:31:15,575.055 Because they don't teach us in schools Arabic enough and most of the Arabs, Israeli citizens, Palestinian Israeli citizens, they speak both languages because their first language is Arabic, but then they learn and they have to know Hebrew in order to live and work in Israel. 311 00:31:15,885.055 --> 00:31:16,295.055 Yeah. 312 00:31:16,885.055 --> 00:31:25,525.055 So most of our audience, you know, the, the Arab side knew both languages and Jewish side knew mostly Hebrew. 313 00:31:25,945.055 --> 00:31:29,85.0545 So we used subtitles with both languages. 314 00:31:29,275.0555 --> 00:31:29,575.0555 Yeah. 315 00:31:30,45.0555 --> 00:31:33,165.0555 On a board on the wall on the, above the stage. 316 00:31:33,285.0555 --> 00:31:33,475.0555 Yeah. 317 00:31:33,475.0555 --> 00:31:35,435.0555 What you call subtitles, right? Yeah. 318 00:31:35,435.1555 --> 00:31:35,534.1155 Yeah. 319 00:31:35,534.1155 --> 00:31:35,929.9555 That actually is good. 320 00:31:36,220.0555 --> 00:31:49,200.0555 And when we performed abroad in Germany so we just had, you know German translation from, for all the texts and, you know, most of the audience also know the story so they can follow. 321 00:31:50,60.0545 --> 00:31:50,430.0545 Yes. 322 00:31:50,430.0545 --> 00:31:50,680.0545 Yeah. 323 00:31:50,680.0545 --> 00:31:53,870.0555 It's not too hard to follow because it's such a well known story. 324 00:31:55,760.0555 --> 00:32:11,850.0555 I went to there's a company in Paris called Theater in Paris, and they do mostly French plays, but they put English titles for all the English speaking people that come in for so many years. 325 00:32:11,850.0555 --> 00:32:14,600.0545 I was thinking, oh, someone needs to do this. 326 00:32:14,740.0555 --> 00:32:16,850.0555 This is a market here. 327 00:32:16,850.0555 --> 00:32:18,10.0555 That's not being tapped. 328 00:32:18,10.0555 --> 00:32:18,910.0555 And then someone did it. 329 00:32:19,630.0545 --> 00:32:20,779.9555 My wife is from France. 330 00:32:20,780.0555 --> 00:32:23,180.0555 So I spent a lot of time back and forth. 331 00:32:23,900.0555 --> 00:32:25,220.0555 Yeah, it's pretty, pretty neat. 332 00:32:25,220.0555 --> 00:32:27,510.0555 I've been to a number of their productions and it's great. 333 00:32:27,600.0555 --> 00:32:35,590.0555 Sometimes they get away with it just by doing shows that don't have a lot of language like I saw a mime tango. 334 00:32:36,360.0555 --> 00:32:42,60.0555 They're doing mime, you know, and tango and they weren't talking much. 335 00:32:42,120.0545 --> 00:32:43,660.0555 Yeah, it was incredible. 336 00:32:44,400.0555 --> 00:32:45,350.0545 Absolutely incredible. 337 00:32:45,860.0555 --> 00:32:46,540.0555 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 338 00:32:46,540.0555 --> 00:32:50,950.0555 Everybody gets Mime and Tango, you know, so yeah, it's really cool. 339 00:32:51,490.0555 --> 00:33:03,120.0565 There's this, Famous school of Jacques Lecoq, the tradition of of Jacques Lecoq in, in Paris that I, I really find very, Yeah, I've heard of this. 340 00:33:03,120.0565 --> 00:33:04,540.0565 I don't remember what it is. 341 00:33:04,570.0565 --> 00:33:14,830.0555 What is it? So I think he he started a school maybe in the fifties or earlier of mine and physical theater and they're committed a lot. 342 00:33:14,930.0555 --> 00:33:18,230.0565 And you know, this is a tradition, you know, goes. 343 00:33:18,815.0565 --> 00:33:24,815.0565 Back from Jean Louis Barrault and competing with Marcel Marceau. 344 00:33:25,115.0565 --> 00:33:31,875.054 He has this, he has this school and it's so actually one of my teachers in in Tel Aviv when I started acting was studied with, with both. 345 00:33:32,225.055 --> 00:33:40,45.054 So he told us a little bit about you know, the competition then they one of his teachers maybe you heard this name. 346 00:33:40,315.055 --> 00:33:40,655.055 Yeah. 347 00:33:41,315.055 --> 00:33:46,535.0545 He, he, I think he opened the school in, in in London for, for a few years. 348 00:33:46,535.0545 --> 00:33:47,785.055 And then he moved back to Paris. 349 00:33:49,25.055 --> 00:33:57,755.055 as a famous French director and also teacher keeps this tradition of you know out of masks, you know, very physical. 350 00:33:58,205.054 --> 00:34:02,395.055 And so yeah, it's, it's, it's reminded me on the, this mime tango. 351 00:34:02,675.057 --> 00:34:04,725.056 There's so, there's so much of that in France. 352 00:34:05,185.055 --> 00:34:08,605.055 There are, actually there are very few like regular straight plays. 353 00:34:08,605.055 --> 00:34:11,935.056 It's a lot of this hybrid sort of performance with. 354 00:34:12,330.056 --> 00:34:15,930.056 Mime and dance and they seem to prefer that. 355 00:34:16,820.056 --> 00:34:22,40.056 When I was a kid, Marcel Marceau was so popular in the United States. 356 00:34:23,320.056 --> 00:34:26,920.056 He was on TV here all the time in the sixties and seventies. 357 00:34:28,290.056 --> 00:34:28,680.056 Yeah. 358 00:34:29,70.056 --> 00:34:29,380.056 Yeah. 359 00:34:29,380.056 --> 00:34:35,370.055 I remember as well that there were a lot of of, you know, performances on TV and he was a star. 360 00:34:35,670.056 --> 00:34:36,350.056 Yeah. 361 00:34:36,440.056 --> 00:34:36,980.056 Right. 362 00:34:37,130.055 --> 00:34:44,50.055 All the way through the eighties and even in the nineties, I think he came out my childhood was pretty much in the eighties. 363 00:34:44,100.054 --> 00:34:45,810.055 So he yeah, he was very famous. 364 00:34:46,460.055 --> 00:34:46,920.055 Yeah. 365 00:34:47,150.055 --> 00:34:47,520.055 Yeah. 366 00:34:48,315.055 --> 00:34:48,745.055 Yeah. 367 00:34:49,885.055 --> 00:34:52,705.055 And you, you perform a lot of comedies. 368 00:34:52,705.055 --> 00:34:57,165.055 Is this right? I saw some, some of it, you know, some of the publicity. 369 00:34:58,545.055 --> 00:35:03,815.054 Well, well, I mean, I've done I've been doing a lot of musical theater, but I also do just regular plays. 370 00:35:03,815.055 --> 00:35:06,985.055 I had a theater company here for a number of years with some people. 371 00:35:07,5.055 --> 00:35:08,675.055 I'm not involved in it anymore. 372 00:35:09,815.055 --> 00:35:15,65.055 And I, I was when I was, That was my main focus when I went to right now. 373 00:35:19,315.055 --> 00:35:20,785.055 I'm just auditioning. 374 00:35:21,95.055 --> 00:35:25,435.055 Part of the problem is, I'm, I'm in the actors union here and. 375 00:35:26,365.055 --> 00:35:29,195.055 We've had so many political changes. 376 00:35:30,165.055 --> 00:35:39,435.055 There's this the idea of inclusion, which kind of means old white guys like me are currently excluded. 377 00:35:41,855.055 --> 00:35:48,325.055 So, yeah, it's complex when you have, you know, the wind of change and you still say, okay, I cannot change. 378 00:35:49,70.055 --> 00:35:53,490.055 Who I am, I also, I also want to work exactly. 379 00:35:54,300.055 --> 00:35:59,450.054 I mean, I was resentful for a while because I had always been like you. 380 00:35:59,530.055 --> 00:36:07,750.055 I'd always been on the forefront of wanting to include wanting to give everybody the love and the opportunity. 381 00:36:07,750.055 --> 00:36:08,930.055 And I always push for that. 382 00:36:08,950.055 --> 00:36:12,700.055 And then all of a sudden, I'm the bad person, you know, like, wait a minute. 383 00:36:13,810.055 --> 00:36:14,580.055 No, I'm not. 384 00:36:16,200.055 --> 00:36:18,300.054 But I mean, I'm just. 385 00:36:18,795.055 --> 00:36:21,785.055 Things are starting to change again and get a little bit more balanced. 386 00:36:21,935.055 --> 00:36:25,485.055 So I have some hope, but I'm writing a right now. 387 00:36:25,485.055 --> 00:36:27,85.0545 I'm writing a 1 man show. 388 00:36:27,85.0545 --> 00:36:56,970.055 I had a great grand uncle who from Italy who came to the United States and tried to become a famous singer and he didn't see himself as successful, but he wrote a memoir and I went to Italy and I found the memoir in the library and I copied it and I had heard that he had written this memoir because I found a book that somebody had Written about Italian singers from the early 20th century who had written memoirs and he was in there. 389 00:36:57,10.055 --> 00:36:58,370.055 This was my great grand uncle. 390 00:36:58,390.055 --> 00:37:05,120.055 So I got the his memoir and I write, I just, I translated it from Italian to English. 391 00:37:05,130.054 --> 00:37:07,470.055 And now I'm writing the show. 392 00:37:08,560.055 --> 00:37:11,110.055 Wow, that sounds very interesting, actually. 393 00:37:12,190.055 --> 00:37:13,460.055 I'm really excited about it. 394 00:37:14,230.055 --> 00:37:18,690.055 And also you mentioned that you're, you're involved a lot in musical theater. 395 00:37:18,760.055 --> 00:37:20,480.055 So to make a musical show about. 396 00:37:21,865.055 --> 00:37:22,675.055 His life. 397 00:37:22,895.055 --> 00:37:23,245.055 Yes. 398 00:37:23,285.055 --> 00:37:28,505.055 And it's even more interesting that he wasn't like a great star, right? It's better that way. 399 00:37:28,795.055 --> 00:37:31,315.055 Yeah, because he was so disappointed with himself. 400 00:37:33,235.054 --> 00:37:33,515.054 Yeah. 401 00:37:33,565.054 --> 00:37:33,965.054 Yeah. 402 00:37:33,995.055 --> 00:37:44,985.055 And also, like, it's very humane, right? It's very, you can identify with it with so many things in there that identify with and this is like, oh, my God, this is my relative. 403 00:37:45,705.055 --> 00:37:47,625.055 And we're experiencing some, I never knew him. 404 00:37:47,645.055 --> 00:37:48,635.055 I could have known him. 405 00:37:49,225.055 --> 00:37:50,945.055 He lived in San Francisco. 406 00:37:50,985.055 --> 00:37:51,905.055 I think when I was. 407 00:37:52,690.055 --> 00:38:04,50.055 A little boy, and then he moved to New York, but because my great grandmother gave him the fare to take the boat ride over the United States. 408 00:38:04,410.055 --> 00:38:08,620.055 No, from France, because he was in France for a little while to Italy to San Francisco. 409 00:38:08,870.055 --> 00:38:16,240.055 And, but he left San Francisco and went to New York because there wasn't enough opportunity for singers here. 410 00:38:16,240.055 --> 00:38:17,880.055 He wanted to be big time. 411 00:38:20,435.055 --> 00:38:28,875.055 Yeah, it's, and then the last part of the memoir is him, he's, I think he got kind of cynical and he seems kind of fascist. 412 00:38:28,915.055 --> 00:38:32,595.055 He was like, so there's 2 sides of his personality. 413 00:38:32,615.055 --> 00:38:41,485.055 The other 1 was like, he seemed to be, he says things that seem to be in support of Hitler and Mussolini, which I found kind of like, at first, like, whoa. 414 00:38:42,135.055 --> 00:38:42,555.055 Yeah. 415 00:38:44,0.055 --> 00:38:48,210.055 I don't it didn't sound like you knew about the terrible things they were doing. 416 00:38:48,910.055 --> 00:38:49,600.055 I don't know. 417 00:38:49,870.055 --> 00:38:51,780.055 That's going to be hard to write that part. 418 00:38:51,820.055 --> 00:38:54,930.055 But yeah, and it's hard to be on the front of you. 419 00:38:55,300.054 --> 00:39:11,330.054 What's that? Yeah, I think it must be also interesting because you're as we, as we see as actors that the interesting roles are those that you don't tend to understand so much. 420 00:39:11,460.055 --> 00:39:15,70.054 You don't agree with the choice, but then you can see the voyage. 421 00:39:15,405.055 --> 00:39:21,125.055 That's, I don't know, some kind of anger and pain made him identify with a fascist movement. 422 00:39:21,305.055 --> 00:39:21,785.055 Exactly. 423 00:39:21,785.055 --> 00:39:27,15.054 It's kind of you can judge it, but you can still kind of, you know, be curious about it. 424 00:39:27,315.055 --> 00:39:35,695.054 Yeah, you have to be curious as a performer, right? You can't, I mean, in your personal life, you might make judgments, but then when you're doing the, when you're doing it. 425 00:39:36,380.055 --> 00:39:37,320.055 You gotta be it. 426 00:39:37,500.055 --> 00:39:38,480.055 You gotta be the guy. 427 00:39:38,490.055 --> 00:39:42,160.055 And most people don't wake up thinking I am a fascist. 428 00:39:42,160.055 --> 00:39:44,20.055 I am going to destroy the world. 429 00:39:44,20.055 --> 00:39:45,870.055 I know the good guys. 430 00:39:46,80.055 --> 00:39:46,860.055 Exactly. 431 00:39:46,990.055 --> 00:39:48,730.055 Everybody thinks they're the good guys. 432 00:39:50,385.055 --> 00:40:00,765.055 For the most part, unless they're nuts, what you got to sing in this so, so he actually recorded 2 of his songs and put them on a record. 433 00:40:00,775.055 --> 00:40:03,395.054 So I have those and I digitize them. 434 00:40:03,405.055 --> 00:40:08,345.054 So, and I cleaned up some of the static, but not all of it because I like. 435 00:40:08,985.055 --> 00:40:09,605.054 I like it. 436 00:40:10,95.055 --> 00:40:16,235.055 Yeah, and I might sing along with it, or I might sing, let him, he'll be singing part of it. 437 00:40:16,235.055 --> 00:40:18,75.055 And then maybe I'll come in and sing the rest. 438 00:40:18,805.055 --> 00:40:25,965.055 You know and then he also wrote about a number of songs that are in his memoir and they're interspersed all over throughout the memoir. 439 00:40:26,555.055 --> 00:40:28,175.055 I don't have the music for them. 440 00:40:28,205.055 --> 00:40:44,135.055 I don't know what they sounded like, but I'm probably going to work with a musician to come up with some music for it that would fit the words and then and in an Italian sort of style of the time and. 441 00:40:45,210.055 --> 00:40:49,440.055 You can also add, Like hits from the period, you know, Italian hits or something. 442 00:40:49,460.055 --> 00:40:50,760.055 Yeah, theatrical. 443 00:40:50,910.055 --> 00:40:52,380.055 Yeah, for sure. 444 00:40:52,470.055 --> 00:40:52,920.055 Yeah. 445 00:40:53,160.055 --> 00:40:55,200.055 And there's all these interesting characters. 446 00:40:55,440.055 --> 00:40:58,50.055 I mean, right now I'm writing it as a one man show. 447 00:40:58,830.055 --> 00:41:02,270.055 But maybe I'll, I might, I might expand that. 448 00:41:02,270.055 --> 00:41:06,515.055 Have you ever seen flea bag? No, I heard about it. 449 00:41:06,655.055 --> 00:41:08,785.055 Oh, I heard about it so much, but I haven't seen it. 450 00:41:09,85.055 --> 00:41:12,965.055 You can actually see the, the stage performance of it. 451 00:41:12,965.055 --> 00:41:17,325.055 So there's a TV series she, that she got from it, which was great. 452 00:41:17,335.055 --> 00:41:19,695.054 You know, it's like eight, eight to 10 episodes. 453 00:41:20,615.054 --> 00:41:28,825.055 And it pretty much follows the story of her one person show, but I've seen both her doing the one person show and, and the TV series. 454 00:41:28,835.055 --> 00:41:31,465.055 It's kind of what gave me the idea to do this. 455 00:41:32,175.055 --> 00:41:32,555.055 Yeah. 456 00:41:35,275.055 --> 00:41:38,935.055 Sounds like a kind of a show that I'd like to see. 457 00:41:39,735.055 --> 00:41:40,105.055 Yeah. 458 00:41:40,115.055 --> 00:41:42,755.055 I've always admired all the incredible things that you do. 459 00:41:42,755.055 --> 00:41:46,485.055 It was like going on Facebook and hitting translate. 460 00:41:46,495.055 --> 00:41:53,335.054 If you put it in Hebrew and you always do all these really cool ideas all the time. 461 00:41:53,335.055 --> 00:41:53,925.055 It's so great. 462 00:41:53,925.055 --> 00:41:56,655.055 I'm much into Shakespeare as you may know. 463 00:41:56,705.055 --> 00:42:01,75.055 I know you kind of making different ways. 464 00:42:01,75.055 --> 00:42:01,295.055 Yeah. 465 00:42:01,755.055 --> 00:42:07,945.055 To find different ways of making a dialogue with with his writings, but I'm trying, you know, I'm trying to initiate. 466 00:42:07,945.055 --> 00:42:10,75.055 I'm an independent theater maker. 467 00:42:10,95.055 --> 00:42:11,615.055 Most of what I do is independent. 468 00:42:11,635.055 --> 00:42:19,835.054 So I, I try to create, you know, the, there's the pros and cons, right? So the pros are that you can do things you. 469 00:42:20,200.055 --> 00:42:21,910.055 You dream of doing. 470 00:42:22,420.055 --> 00:42:28,60.055 And the cones, we know that, right? That you don't have the money and you don't have, you can make a liman of it. 471 00:42:28,420.055 --> 00:42:29,445.055 And there's no money. 472 00:42:29,445.055 --> 00:42:32,445.055 The time, the the i You have to be everything. 473 00:42:32,445.055 --> 00:42:34,65.055 You have to do everything. 474 00:42:34,455.055 --> 00:42:35,55.055 Exactly. 475 00:42:36,385.055 --> 00:42:40,645.055 I, I'm sort of switching into becoming more of an independent theater maker myself. 476 00:42:40,645.055 --> 00:42:45,765.055 I'm having, I'm not having an easy time changing psychologically, but that's kind of where it's going. 477 00:42:45,765.055 --> 00:42:54,935.055 And I'm getting older, so I mean, As soon as I got in my 60s, I started count, it's like, you start counting the days, like, oh man. 478 00:42:56,190.055 --> 00:43:09,680.055 What was it like with with your company? Because it's something I, I haven't done yet, but I, I really think of doing of, you know, having an independent company of something small that you can create your own things in many ways. 479 00:43:09,690.055 --> 00:43:10,770.055 It was wonderful. 480 00:43:11,320.055 --> 00:43:12,860.055 I started it with a few other people. 481 00:43:13,360.055 --> 00:43:20,920.055 Like, there was, like, 8 of us who started it, and then there was just, like, 2 of us, or 3 who were there after 15 years. 482 00:43:22,90.055 --> 00:43:25,550.055 It was wonderful until it became extremely politicized. 483 00:43:26,130.055 --> 00:43:29,770.055 People from the outside coming in, changing everything. 484 00:43:31,270.055 --> 00:43:37,850.055 Kicking me out ridiculous reasons that, so that's the problem. 485 00:43:37,970.055 --> 00:43:41,920.055 I mean, at first, you know, you'll start, it's very ideal idealized. 486 00:43:41,950.055 --> 00:43:52,760.054 You have these great ideas and everyone's on board and, and it tends to happen with every small organization, you know, there's like, at first it's wonderful. 487 00:43:52,780.055 --> 00:44:04,130.054 And then as you get bigger and your reach grows and you have people with other ideas, then it ends up, then it just like, so it ends up like any other institution. 488 00:44:05,70.055 --> 00:44:21,120.055 Where you can still do great work, but then you have a lot of, you know, people trying to force their will and ideas, politics and every it's almost inevitable. 489 00:44:21,570.054 --> 00:44:21,960.054 Yeah. 490 00:44:22,320.055 --> 00:44:22,840.055 Yeah. 491 00:44:23,310.055 --> 00:44:24,120.054 That's all I can say. 492 00:44:24,120.054 --> 00:44:30,580.055 I mean, so I'd say go for it, but just, you know, try to. 493 00:44:31,830.055 --> 00:44:33,860.055 I mean, if I were to look back, it would be better. 494 00:44:34,180.055 --> 00:44:35,970.055 Keep it as small as possible. 495 00:44:38,920.055 --> 00:44:41,540.055 Once you start growing, it's just things get weird. 496 00:44:42,200.054 --> 00:44:46,560.055 Yeah, that's that's the human condition. 497 00:44:46,560.055 --> 00:44:46,910.055 I guess. 498 00:44:47,40.055 --> 00:44:52,360.055 Do you have to get going there? Yeah, that's what my kid was. 499 00:44:52,570.056 --> 00:44:53,110.056 So I might, yeah. 500 00:44:55,450.056 --> 00:45:04,450.056 But it was really great talking with you because, yeah, it has been so, so many years now and it's nice to catch up on what you're doing also as well. 501 00:45:04,530.056 --> 00:45:05,720.056 So it's interesting for me. 502 00:45:05,720.056 --> 00:45:12,50.055 It was also a moment of, you know, not thinking just about the situation here, but also about, you know, art and ideas. 503 00:45:12,50.155 --> 00:45:14,100.056 So it was very fun. 504 00:45:14,480.056 --> 00:45:16,60.056 It was great talking to you, Dory. 505 00:45:16,150.056 --> 00:45:20,80.056 I mean, our time there at Rada, I think about it all the time. 506 00:45:20,110.056 --> 00:45:25,700.055 It was just one of the most for me, it was one of the most, like, incredible times of my life. 507 00:45:25,760.056 --> 00:45:27,430.056 I mean, I don't know. 508 00:45:27,430.056 --> 00:45:28,990.054 I just I loved it so much. 509 00:45:29,505.055 --> 00:45:30,135.055 For me too. 510 00:45:30,135.055 --> 00:45:30,495.055 Yeah. 511 00:45:30,500.055 --> 00:45:34,235.055 It was, yeah, it was such an inspiring experience. 512 00:45:34,235.055 --> 00:45:37,975.055 And also the people, you know just, you know it, yeah. 513 00:45:38,95.055 --> 00:45:39,895.055 I take it with me also. 514 00:45:40,15.055 --> 00:45:40,435.055 Me too. 515 00:45:40,440.055 --> 00:45:45,505.055 I'm always carry it with me and everyone was so talented and passionate about it. 516 00:45:45,615.055 --> 00:45:46,455.055 It's just amazing. 517 00:45:46,725.055 --> 00:45:47,295.055 It's just amazing. 518 00:45:47,295.055 --> 00:45:52,665.055 There was one meeting that we, we did a little, just a short zoom meeting. 519 00:45:52,815.055 --> 00:45:54,485.055 I think you weren't there during the covid. 520 00:45:55,375.055 --> 00:46:01,135.055 Somewhere during the Covid period, and we have to do it again because, you know, not enough people were there. 521 00:46:01,465.055 --> 00:46:02,875.055 And just to say hello to each other again. 522 00:46:03,505.055 --> 00:46:06,145.055 Oh, and I, maybe I didn't know or I couldn't make it or something. 523 00:46:07,35.055 --> 00:46:09,135.055 We, we still have this Facebook group. 524 00:46:09,140.055 --> 00:46:10,735.055 We should we should write there. 525 00:46:11,165.055 --> 00:46:11,735.055 Yeah. 526 00:46:11,795.055 --> 00:46:16,445.055 So once, once in a while someone puts something down, we definitely should, and this will go up there for sure. 527 00:46:16,445.055 --> 00:46:16,535.055 Cool. 528 00:46:17,375.055 --> 00:46:21,955.055 I, I, I went to Los Angeles about about right before. 529 00:46:22,315.055 --> 00:46:27,815.055 About four years ago, and I met with every ever almost everyone who's down there. 530 00:46:27,815.055 --> 00:46:28,985.055 We all met at a bar. 531 00:46:28,995.055 --> 00:46:29,985.055 Oh, nice. 532 00:46:30,205.055 --> 00:46:34,455.055 Yes Yeah, I think you also you you wrote something. 533 00:46:34,595.055 --> 00:46:35,465.055 I saw a picture. 534 00:46:35,565.055 --> 00:46:36,75.055 Yeah. 535 00:46:36,165.054 --> 00:46:49,315.055 Yeah Yeah, I think everyone got there except maybe Chris Yeah, and there was like, you know, there was like seven or eight of them of the people in our class Yeah, it was wonderful. 536 00:46:49,495.055 --> 00:46:50,45.055 Yeah. 537 00:46:50,105.055 --> 00:46:54,570.055 Yeah all right, well, maybe we should do this on a regular basis. 538 00:46:54,600.055 --> 00:47:01,50.055 Like, what's every a couple of months or something? I was sure I'd love to be updated with with things that you do. 539 00:47:01,180.054 --> 00:47:02,710.055 And also this 1 man show. 540 00:47:02,750.055 --> 00:47:03,810.054 I love to hear about it. 541 00:47:03,970.054 --> 00:47:04,240.054 Yeah. 542 00:47:04,240.055 --> 00:47:04,970.0545 And same. 543 00:47:04,970.0545 --> 00:47:06,760.055 I definitely want to know what you're doing. 544 00:47:07,140.055 --> 00:47:09,270.054 And I hope you can start doing stuff again soon. 545 00:47:09,340.054 --> 00:47:13,194.955 And I really, really hope and pray that, you know, Thank you. 546 00:47:13,965.055 --> 00:47:20,95.055 What's happening in your area, it just resolves without more catastrophe. 547 00:47:20,105.055 --> 00:47:22,315.055 I just I'm my heart goes out to you. 548 00:47:22,825.054 --> 00:47:23,155.054 Thanks. 549 00:47:23,375.055 --> 00:47:24,105.055 Thanks very much. 550 00:47:24,115.054 --> 00:47:25,745.055 We hope it will end very soon. 551 00:47:26,295.055 --> 00:47:31,495.055 And let's hope and, okay, thank you. 552 00:47:32,475.055 --> 00:47:33,125.055 Yeah, thanks. 553 00:47:34,895.055 --> 00:47:40,575.055 Could you send me a a short, like a bio or something, so I can Yeah, yeah, sure. 554 00:47:40,985.054 --> 00:47:45,675.054 Alright, in English if I Yeah, of course, no problem. 555 00:47:45,705.055 --> 00:47:46,935.055 I'm just kidding, of course you would. 556 00:47:48,165.055 --> 00:47:49,445.055 Yes, I have something. 557 00:47:49,485.055 --> 00:47:57,860.055 I see the Hebrew, it looks like hieroglyphics to me, I'm like, oh my god, how does anybody read that? Okay, cool. 558 00:47:57,860.055 --> 00:47:58,700.055 Yeah, I'll do that. 559 00:47:58,705.055 --> 00:48:00,440.055 I'll, I'll try to do it to today even. 560 00:48:00,445.055 --> 00:48:00,670.055 Yeah. 561 00:48:00,860.055 --> 00:48:01,100.055 Yeah. 562 00:48:01,100.055 --> 00:48:01,910.055 When you get a chance. 563 00:48:02,30.055 --> 00:48:02,510.055 Okay. 564 00:48:03,330.055 --> 00:48:03,960.055 Thanks, Dory. 565 00:48:03,965.055 --> 00:48:04,230.055 Okay, great. 566 00:48:04,420.055 --> 00:48:04,710.055 Yeah. 567 00:48:04,970.055 --> 00:48:05,190.055 Bye. 568 00:48:05,400.055 --> 00:48:05,990.055 Let's talk soon. 569 00:48:06,300.055 --> 00:48:06,780.055 Okay. 570 00:48:06,780.055 --> 00:48:06,990.055 You too. 571 00:48:07,560.055 --> 00:48:07,800.055 All right. 572 00:48:07,805.055 --> 00:48:08,70.055 Bye-bye. 573 00:48:11,30.055 --> 00:48:11,360.055 All right. 574 00:48:11,365.055 --> 00:48:13,970.055 Well, that was a wonderful conversation with Dory. 575 00:48:13,970.055 --> 00:48:15,110.055 I hope you enjoyed it. 576 00:48:16,290.055 --> 00:48:17,910.055 I want y'all to take care of yourselves. 577 00:48:19,460.055 --> 00:48:21,550.055 Try not to watch the news all day long. 578 00:48:22,990.055 --> 00:48:29,700.055 Have some fun, because you deserve to have fun, because you are awesome, and I love y'all. 579 00:48:29,810.055 --> 00:48:36,60.055 Take care everybody, and until next time, I will see you on the boards. 580 00:48:37,620.054 --> 00:48:38,60.054 Ciao. 581 00:48:39,50.054 --> 00:48:42,310.055 Imagine there's no heaven. 582 00:48:44,170.055 --> 00:48:47,840.055 It's easy if you try. 583 00:48:54,45.055 --> 00:49:00,705.055 No hell below us, above us only sky. 584 00:49:04,605.055 --> 00:49:16,325.054 Imagine all the people waiting for today. 585 00:49:17,835.054 --> 00:49:20,735.055 Imagine there's no countries. 586 00:49:24,210.055 --> 00:50:57,765.055 It isn't hard to do Nothin to kill or die for And no religion, too Ooh, oh, oh Imagine all the people Livin in peace You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the And one, if you can, sharing all. 587 00:51:03,835.055 --> 00:51:06,115.055 They say, I'm a dreamer. 588 00:51:11,195.055 --> 00:51:11,495.055 Only one. 589 00:51:15,785.054 --> 00:51:19,865.055 I hope someday, you'll join us. 590 00:51:21,565.055 --> 00:51:35,620.5688333 And the world, someday you'll join us. 591 00:51:35,620.5688333 --> 00:51:37,9.1059167 Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. 592 00:51:37,9.1059167 --> 00:51:38,397.643 And the world is one.