Embark on a spectral adventure as we explore the haunted realms of museums, zoos, and amusement parks with Sylvia Shults. Join us as Shults unveils spine-chilling stories of ghostly apparitions amidst ancient artifacts, eerie encounters in zoological gardens, and supernatural occurrences in the world of amusement. With a blend of history and the paranormal, Shults guides us through the spectral tapestry that intertwines with the exhibits we cherish. From the virtual to the tangible, discover the unseen phantoms that lurk in unexpected corners. Get ready for an otherworldly journey into haunted attractions with Sylvia Shults!
My Special Guest Is Sylvia Shults
Sylvia Shults is the author of several books of paranormal nonfiction, including Gone on Vacation: Haunted Zoos, Museums, and Amusement Parks, the award-winning Days of the Dead: A Year of True Ghost Stories, and Grave Deeds And Dead Plots. She sits in dark, spooky, haunted places so you don't have to. She has spent the last twenty-five years working at a public library, slowly smuggling out enough words in her pockets week after week to build a book of her own.
She is the writer, narrator, director, and producer of the true ghost story podcast Lights Out With Sylvia Shults, available on any podcast platform, and on YouTube.
Sylvia loves hearing from her readers, especially when they have spooky stories of their own to share with her. She can be found at www.sylviashults.wordpress.com, and on Facebook at the pages for Fractured Spirits, Lights Out, and Ghosts of the Illinois River.
In this episode, you will be able to:
1. Take a closer look at some of the historical and paranormal accounts featured in Sylvia's latest book Gone On Vacation.
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Michelle: Before we dive into the eerie tales of the past, I have some electrifying news to share with you. I'm excited to announce that the Haunted History Chronicles podcast now has its very own small shop of the macabre and mysterious. Picture this exclusive merchandise, hauntingly beautiful artwork, spine tingling stickers, s, mugs that will make your morning coffee seem positively paranormal, and prints that capture the ghostly essence of days gone by. Whether you're a longtime listener of the show or a newcomer drawn to the enigmatic allure of Haunted history, the shop is your gateway to the supernatural. Imagine decorating your space with a piece of history, a connection to the spectral past. The merchandise is designed to evoke the very essence of the stories I share, making it an essential addition to your collection of all things eerie. You can find all these hair raising treasures on the website, or simply follow the links conveniently placed in the podcast description notes it's so easy, even a ghost could do it. So whether you're searching for the perfect addition to your Haunted memorabilia collection or just wanting to immerse yourself in the world of the supernatural, the shop is here to provide. Dive into the past, embrace the spook, and let the stories of history's ghosts haunt your space. So why not visit the shop today and remember, the spirits of the past are waiting for you. The Haunted History chronicles exclusive merchandise is just a click away. Happy shopping, and may the spirits be with you. Hi everyone, and welcome back to Haunted History Chronicles. First of all, thank you for taking a listen to this episode. Before we begin, I just want to throw out a few ways you can.
Michelle : Get involved and help support the show.
Michelle: We have a Patreon page as well as an Amazon link, so hopefully if you're interested in supporting, you can find.
Michelle : A way that best suits you.
Michelle: All of the links for those can either be found in the show notes or over on the website. Of course, just continuing to help spread the word of the show on social media, leaving reviews and sharing with friends and family is also a huge help.
Michelle : So thank you for all that you do.
Michelle: And now let's get started by introducing.
Michelle : Today'S podcast or guest.
Michelle: Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls of all ages, gather around and prepare yourselves for an extraordinary journey into the chilling depths of the unknown. Welcome to the Grand Spectacle of the Haunted History Chronicles podcast, where the mysteries of the supernatural world unfold before your very eyes. Step right up for tonight's show is not for the faint of heart. We're about to embark on a spine tingling expedition through the most enigmatic and ghost infested corners of the world, the allure of vacations, those blissful interludes that promise sun soaked adventures and carefree moments. But behind the veil of smiles and joyful laughter lies a haunting narrative, one that seeps through the cracks of amusement parks, zoos and museums, places where the past cling fiercely to the present, refusing to relinquish its spectral grip. Imagine, if you will, a world where the lying between the living and the departed blurs, where the past lingers in the air like an ethereal mist, whispering tales of forgotten memories and unfinished business. A world where the innocent merriment of vacationers mingles with the anguished echoes of those who remain trapped between realms, unable to find peace in this extraordinary spectacle, we shall delve deep into the secrets that these seemingly ordinary vacation destinations hold, revealing the hidden specters, lost souls, and restless phantoms that refuse to fade into oblivion. For you see, beneath the surface of joy and excitement lies a tapestry of tales as old as time, where every creek of a floorboard and every rustle of a leaf speaks of a bygone era fraught with tragedy and mystery. And who better to guide you through this maze of the supernatural than the illustrious Sylvia Schultz, the fearless seeker of all things paranormal, whose unyielding curiosity has led her to uncover the most tantalizing and bone chilling stories the world has ever known. With her keen eye for the uncanny and her unwavering determination to uncover the truth, she has braved the shadows. Sylvia Schultz is the author of several books of paranormal nonfiction, including Gone on Vacation, Haunted zoos, museums and amusement parks, Days of the Dead and Grave Deeds and plots. She sits in dark, spooky, haunted places so you don't have to. She has spent the last 25 years working at a public library, slowly smuggling out enough words in her pockets week after week to build a book of her own. She lives a short, ten minute motorcycle ride away from the Haunted asylum that features in so many of her books. As a paranormal investigator, she has made many media appearances, including a tiny part in the Ghost Hunters episode Prescription for Fear. She is the writer, narrator, director and producer of the True Ghost Story podcast Lights out with Sylvia Schultz, available on any podcast platform and on YouTube. Together we shall traverse the haunted corridors of museums where ancient artifacts hold the memories of their former owners, whispering secrets in the dead of night. We shall wander through the eerie landscapes of zoos where the spirits of beloved animals roam freely, their gentle apparitions leaving behind an unmistakable aura of longing and devotion. And we shall dare to ride the ghostly attractions of amusement parks, where the laughter of long departed thrill seekers echoes through the rusted frames of forgotten roller coasters. A haunting melody that sends shivers down the spine. Step right up, my dear friends, and brace yourselves for a night of wonders and terrors beyond your wildest imagination. As the circus tent flaps in the wind and the moon casts its eerie glow upon our stage, prepare to be enthralled, captivated, and perhaps even a little unnerved by the tales that unfold before you. For in this grand show of the supernatural, every twist and turn promises to leave you spellbound, questioning the very fabric of reality and the mysteries that lie just beyond our grasp. So come one, come all, and witness the marvels and horrors that await us on this unforgettable journey. Secure your seats, hold on to your loved ones tightly, and let the shadows guide you as we step into the realm where the past and the present collide in a dance of spectral intrigue and unbridled fascination. The night is young and the spirits are restless. Are you ready to face the unknown? The show is about to begin.
Michelle : Hi Sylvia, thank you so much for joining me today.
Sylvia Shults: Oh, Michelle, thank you so much for having me on. I'm really looking forward to this conversation.
Michelle : And we're going to be talking about one of your books today, which is gone on vacation, which is about haunted zoos, museums, and amusement parks. Before we get on to that topic, do you want to just tell us a little bit about yourself and your background and how really you became interested in the paranormal?
Sylvia Shults: Of course. Well, I have always been interested in the weird and the mysterious. If there was any book with mysteries or strange in the title on the shelf at the grade school library, I gravitated towards it. My father would tell us ghost stories at the dining room table, and he is the one. I grew up in the Chicago area, so he is the one who introduced me to the screaming mummy at the Field Museum and the ghosts of St. James, the SAG and Resurrection Mary, of course. So he's really the one who got me interested in the ghost aspect of all of he's. I have him to thank, and so does everyone else.
Michelle : I love that. I have to say, I think I'm the only one in my family that is interested in the paranormal, which is partly why I do the podcast, because it allows me to wax lyrical with people who think the same as I do and have the same interests. Because I think I've thoroughly bored my family with it.
Sylvia Shults: I am the outlier in my family too. It was me and dad, and he unfortunately passed a couple of years ago, but the last time I saw him in person was at my sister's wedding in October of 2020. And I asked him, I said, how did you come across all these wonderful ghost stories? And he said, well, I just read a lot, which I knew, and that's how I come across most of my ghost stories as well. So I have that example of reading voraciously and collecting all these marvelous stories along the way.
Michelle : So you've obviously touched upon the fact that we're going to be talking about your latest book, Gone on vacation. I mean, it's a really inspirational aspect to cover in terms of exploring history and exploring the paranormal. I'm curious, though, as to what really inspired you to want to approach it from that angle and to put together the book because it's so unique. It's not something that I've really come across before.
Sylvia Shults: Actually, yes. I was looking at the back cover copy yesterday, and my publisher calls it right on the back cover, the first book of its kind. Grab your ticket and turn the pages of the first book of its kind. And looking back on it, it really is. I have never come across, really, a book that treats this subject. Years ago, I was. Well, not years like, I don't know, six or seven years ago, I was at a mini ghost conference, and a friend of mine, another ghost hunter, mentioned something about an experience that she had had at the Brookfield Zoo. And I grew up ten minutes away from the Brookfield Zoo. We went there a lot when I was a kid, and the seed was planted, I thought, how fun would it be to do a book on Haunted Zoos? I realized that I could expand it into museums and amusement parks. And I realized that I already had a few really cracking ghost stories that involved museums. So that just added to the book. And I realized very quickly on, when I actually started buckling down and doing the research for this, that this was the book that I was born to write. I mean, that sounds so cliche to say that, but this is the book that nine year old me would have drooled to find on the library shelf. And to realize that there were this many ghost stories associated with all of these three places was just an absolute joy to me.
Michelle : I think, though, for many, they would not assume that these would be locations that would attract that kind of paranormal activity. But it makes complete sense for me, I think, where you have places where lots and lots of people tend to come in attendance over centuries, sometimes you just have this collection of pooled energy and different emotions, a full range of emotions. And these are locations that saw tragedy and happiness and everything in between. And I think there's something in that, in terms of spirits then lingering, something then staying behind. It's a fascinating aspect of exploring that I just don't think has been done before. And I think it's one that will change some people's perspective, I think, as to where you can go to. To experience ghost stories and the history that sits alongside.
Sylvia Shults: Oh, yeah, Michelle, you are exactly right. You and I are interested in the paranormal. So you and I both know that there are spirits all around us. But the average person who walks through the gates of an amusement park just expecting excitement for the day wouldn't necessarily realize that this energy is a source of attraction for spirits that may have passed in the park, may have lived on land that the park sits on now. Yeah, all that energy swirling around is a very powerful attractant. It's the history, too, that is bound up with these stories.
Michelle : And I'm curious because I think the book is so well done. It's so well researched, but it covers a range of geography, different locations, but also historical time periods. And that can't be an easy process to navigate that collection and verifying the historical accounts and so on and so forth in order to then pull those things together to include in the book. So I'm kind of curious what your process was, how it was that you came across these stories, what you were doing, and how you were kind of selecting and piecing these together, and, as I say, how that research fed into what you were doing.
Sylvia Shults: Well, for gone on vacation, these stories really came from all over the place. As I said, I've really been collecting these stories since I was a kid because of hearing stories of museum haunts when I was a young girl and hearing rumors of other museums being haunted, like the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago. I'd always heard stories about that possibly being haunted, and it was a delight to me to realize that, yes, it very much is haunted. Other than that, I read a lot, and I come across these quick little mentions of ghost stories involving haunted objects or a ghost sighting at a zoo. And I just follow that up. I research it. There were some stories that were absolutely gifted to me out of the blue, when someone asked, hey, what are you working on right now? There's a friend of mine, Allison Jordlin, who actually, she and her ghost tour company were just on Shark Tank, and I haven't watched it yet, so I don't know if they won yet or not, but I really hope they do because their company is just great. She heard that I was working on a book of haunted museums, and she shared just a crackling story with me about the Milwaukee Public Museum that is just straight out of supernatural. And I was ever so grateful to her for being so generous with her stories. So these stories really come from all over the place, from my reading, from talking to people, from gathering evidence of my own. A dear friend of mine, Liz Nygard, is a psychic medium, and she shared with me stories that she had at the Field Museum and at Six Flags Great America in Gurney, Illinois. She contributed to the book with her personal experiences for a couple of parts of the book.
Michelle : And again, I think this is what I really love about how this is put across for someone reading it, because you do get that beautiful blend of.
Michelle: Experience.
Michelle : And yet the research alongside it. So it's not something that feels very over someone else's head if you're the person reading and you haven't been there, for example, obviously a lot of the locations aren't places I've been to because I'm from the UK, but yet I still get a sense of what it was like. You've managed to put across the history, but also the real atmospheric presence. Again, it's very unique. I think it takes you on this journey where you really do get to perceive what has happened in the account, almost as if you are a bystander, which, again, is something very different, I think, and makes it very compelling and really draws you in.
Sylvia Shults: Thank you so much for the high compliments. That was exactly my goal. And thank you so much for letting me know that I accomplished that.
Michelle : So I'm curious. I mean, obviously, there are three very distinct sections in terms of types of locations when it comes to museums and zoos and amusement parks.
Sylvia Shults: Yeah.
Michelle : Did you have a particular compelling story or account that was really chilling or just really stood out to you across each of those three?
Sylvia Shults: Ooh. Oh, that's a loaded question.
Michelle : It's like Sophie's choice, isn't it, that film she has to pick between her two children.
Sylvia Shults: Exactly. Oh, my goodness. In the Zoos section, there's a story about. You can't really talk about Brookfield Zoo without talking about the Hagenbeck Wallace Circus train crash and the people that are buried at Showman's rest in Woodlawn Cemetery. So that story was very compelling to me. Even though it was just zoo tangential, I felt that I had to include it, and that is a very tragic story, a very powerful story. So that was really a story that had to be included. That was very powerful and rather tragic. Also, the Griffith Park Zoo in the zoo section, I was very happy to find that most of these zoos are haunted because the animals were cared for so well. And the zookeeper that haunts the zoo, Hans Nagel at the Fort Worth Zoo, stays there because he loved the zoo so much. But Griffith Park Zoo in LoS Angeles is definitely the outlier, because this is a zoo that is haunted because of great tragedy that occurred there, and the animals were grossly neglected. And that was a very, very difficult chapter to write. I write about tragedy a lot. I write about ghost stories, and I've ventured into true crime. So I've never actually felt the warning, the need to put a trigger warning, in any of my books before now. But I did put one in for Griffith Park sue, because that was really difficult to write about, the abuse of these animals, and I wanted to warn people that that is something they might want to skip reading. Everything else is great, but, yeah, that was one of the more powerful stories in the book, for the museum's part, at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago, which is another place I spent hours upon hours as a kid whenever my cousins would come down from Madison, Wisconsin. That's one of the places we would always go, was the Museum of Science and Industry. And the U 505 submarine there is very haunted. And I discovered as an adult why it's haunted is because one of the German commanders of the submarine, the story is that he shot himself in the conning tower. But I spoke with one of the security guards, who, that is his purview in the museum, is the U 505. So he was full of stories. He actually told me that it's very possible that Peter Check was assassinated by his men because his men hated him, and they took advantage of this crisis situation where the sub was being attacked to shoot him in the head and dispose of him. So, fortunately, I found this story. Unfortunately, I talked to this guide after the book was published, so it didn't make it into the book, but it's a fascinating story nonetheless. So, yeah, there are stories that have a lot of dark energy behind them. There are wonderful, happy, uplifting stories in this book, but there's also some dark stuff in here.
Michelle : But again, I think it just highlights what we were saying earlier on in the sense that these are locations that did attract every type of emotional kind of swing and sway. And because of that, you do get very different experiences. And through that, I think you learn very unique stories that deserve that place. They deserve that moment. To not be forgotten where there is something very tragic, like the mistreatment of animals in comparison to other locations where you mentioned, rightly so, how these animals come back in spirit form, because it was a place they really, really loved. And so to have that contrast, I think, is really important because of the moral, the historical lessons, all of those different things that we can glean through looking at ghost accounts and ghost stories and the places for which these stories lie. They offer this very unique lens into aspects of our past that I think we could very easily walk away from and forget. And yet they are hugely informative for so many different reasons.
Sylvia Shults: Absolutely. And not forgetting is a very important part of this. The Lincoln Park Zoo in Chicago is haunted in the most part because it is built over the old city cemetery in Chicago. And that is a fascinating slice of history in and of itself. The city cemetery was started at the very beginning of Chicago's history in the 1830s, and it was a place where the entire spectrum of society was buried. You had paupers graves there that were simply wooden markers. You had a lot of the middle class of Chicago that was buried there. You had the higher upper echelons of Society of Chicago buried there as well, that had these gorgeous marble and granite monuments to their family name. And they had mausoleums. There's one mausoleum of the Crouch family that is still in Chicago in that Lincoln park area. They just didn't move that one. But it was decided in the 1860s that the cemetery was getting pretty full. They were also burying Confederate prisoners of war that passed at the camp in Camp Douglas in Chicago. They were burying them in city Cemetery, too, and it was getting pretty crowded, and it's right next to Lake Michigan as well. So the city commissioners decided this probably wasn't a really good idea to have this massive cemetery right next to the city's drinking water source. So they decided to move it. They started two other cemeteries, Graceland and Rose Hill. They started moving bodies. But then on October 1871, the Chicago Fire ripped through the city, and people tried to escape the fire, and they went into City Cemetery thinking, well, there aren't any buildings here to burn. We'll be safe from the flames. What they didn't realize was that the heat of the flames was so intense that it followed people into the cemetery. The heat was so intense that it burned the trees and bushes down to below the soil line. It obliterated these wooden markers that the paupers and some of the lower middle class had. It superheated the marble monuments of the rich so that the monuments exploded sending shards of marble everywhere. And people realized very quickly that they could not shelter from the flames in the cemetery. So they waded into the waters of Lake Michigan and sought refuge there. But the end result of that was that a lot of the graves, the burials, were just lost. It's estimated that there are still 20,000 people still buried under Lincoln park, which.
Michelle : Includes the zoo, which is staggering, isn't it?
Michelle: And again, just.
Michelle : It can be history that is known, but is lesser known and kind of sits on the periphery of people's understanding. But I think when you can really, truly understand an event like that and then place that alongside possible paranormal activity, I just think the two together provides a really rich way of examining and remembering. And like you said earlier, just not forgetting that connection with the past and something that's happened oftentimes in our own local area that we should be drawn to, we should remember, and we should know that history of what was at a particular location beforehand. And kind of have that understanding of the evolution. It's really important to understand, I think, what's on our doorstep, future generations. I think it's a really fascinating, as I say, just this comforting, familiar way of looking at the paranormal and history in the sense that it carries this sense of mystery and fascination. I mean, it's just every single type of emotion as we've talked about. And I think what else is such a big draw to it? And hearing some of the references that you've made, you can see how some of these locations are so much part of your childhood, your experience. But again, someone reading that is going to have that same similar kind of feel and attraction to it for the same reason, whether you've been to that location or not, it's something that we're very familiar with because these are places that we associate with family, with day trips, with holidays, with weekends away. And so I think there is that kind of universal connection to it which allows you to explore that history. Even if it's a country completely unfamiliar to you that you may never have been to. It's still that kind of shared, collective understanding. Because we all have these types of attractions all over the world. And, yeah, I think it draws you in for that reason. Almost like the amusement park itself. It has that kind of familiar feeling of all that fun kind of day trip holiday out from our childhoods.
Sylvia Shults: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Michelle : And as I say, it just covers such a wide range of geography and history. And I wondered if there was a particular kind of theme of history, part of history that came up through putting together the collection of accounts that you had that really was just a favorite to kind of draw upon. That was a part of history that you really loved, kind of bringing out in some of these stories that reflected through the accounts themselves.
Sylvia Shults: Oh, boy, that's a really good question. A lot of the places that I investigated and researched had a connection to the American Civil War. One of these places was the North Carolina Zoo. Oddly enough, North Carolina, that zoo is haunted not by a ghostly animal or a ghostly zookeeper, but it's haunted by a figure from the Civil War that had a connection to the region. The Ghost story, in a nutshell, the ghost story of that zoo is that it is in the area of North Carolina called the Piedmont Region, and it is located at the base of a place called Purgatory Mountain, which sounds awful. It was named that because there were moonshine stills hidden all over the mountain. And when the sun went down, if you looked at the mountain, you could see the fires of these moonshine stills flickering on the mountain. And locals started to call it Purgatory Mountain because it was creepy. That was also the source of a ghost story that had its origins in the Civil War. The population of North Carolina, of that area of North Carolina in the Civil War, was largely Quaker. And, of course, the Quakers are not going to want to have anything to do with this war that is raging on their doorstep. They just want no part of it. There was a recruiter for the Confederate army that came into the region, and he had no patience for the Quakers at all. He needed men. This was later on in the war, and the Confederate army was desperate for soldiers. So this recruiter just went into a meeting house one Sunday and collected all the boys, 22 Quaker boys between the ages of eleven and 14, and kidnapped them and marched them away from their families. The boys eventually escaped and made their way back to Randolph county, back to their homes. But they didn't go back to their homes right away because they knew the recruiter was going to follow them and recapture them and take retribution on their families. So they waited for him and ambushed him. And these gentle Quaker boys, who had been raised with principles of nonviolence, did the only thing that they could do to save themselves and their family. They shot this recruiter as though he was a deer in the woods, as though they were hunting, and they dropped him right outside his cabin. So the ghost lore of the North Carolina Zoo and the mountain on which it sits is that the light that you see wandering through the forest is the lantern of this Confederate army recruiter. As he wanders around the hillside looking to recapture those boys.
Michelle : And again, just that account alongside the other ones that you've shared already in this discussion, which is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of accounts that you share. I just think they really do highlight what it is that we've been talking about, which is that they allow you to kind of have a glimpse, a way of looking at these broader, complex human experiences and the history alongside that, because most people would not expect some kind of a connection with the Civil War to an amusement park or to a zoo or to anything of this kind of a nature. But yet these connections are there pretty much in so many different types of locations. And that's because history has universally been everywhere. These events have played out everywhere. And for that reason, you can see how they come together. But oftentimes, people don't realize that. They think of Civil War and they'll think of battlefields, they'll think of key locations. Yeah, but history is about real people, and these are people going through those experiences, living during that time, and how it plays out in smaller communities, smaller places that don't have the big draw in the sense of, well, everybody recognizes the name of that particular location because of that battle kind of a thing to it. But yet it does allow you this really unique way of exploring that aspect of history. And like I said, just that very complex human experience of what it was like for those people in terms of what they went through as part of that, how it sits alongside the rest of it. And I just think that's so wonderful because they're stories that equally deserve to be known as part of that historical backdrop.
Sylvia Shults: Yeah. Lake Shawnee Amusement park is haunted because of things that happened on the land ages ago and because of things that happened at the park. Deaths that happened at the park. The Shawnee Native American tribe was irritated with people moving into the area in 1775, and the hauntings of that place began with the slaughter of three of the children of Mitchell Clay and his wife, Phoebe, back before America was even a country. So, yeah, part of it is the things that took place on the land. Some of the Hauntings are because of deaths that happened in the park or in the zoo or artifacts that were brought to the museum. There's so many facets of these hauntings and so many things that will cause a place to be haunted. And these all come together. You can get a little from Column A, a little from Column B, a little from Column C in these stories. And it can be tragic, but it's so wonderful that these experiences remain in these places.
Michelle : Absolutely an imprint. And again, it's not just the imprint of the spiritual presence that it leaves behind, but it is everything else. The history, the atmosphere, the kind of sense of joy and wonder that we've talked about that people would have experienced. All of that still somehow remains. And again, that's part of the joy, I think, and why I think the book is fantastic, because it touches on all of that. It really does.
Sylvia Shults: Thank you. I mentioned my friend Liz Nygard earlier, and one of the stories she shared with me was about Six Flags great America. And she said, again, she's sensitive. But she said, anyone who is sensitive at all can drive past the park in Gurney on the off season in winter, and just feel that energy building towards spring and building towards the opening day of the park, where it's all just going to come spilling out. And that energy that is stored there and stored up over the year when the park is open is a really powerful draw for any spirits in the area. And the spirits that wander the park, they'd get a charge out of it, too. And it's all because of the people that are enjoying the park now. We are providing that excitement and that energy for the people that went before us. And I think that's just lovely.
Michelle : Something magnetic about it. Again, connective. It's that sense of they're being attracted to something in the same way that we are. And somehow it's this perfect blend, and it just, again, creates the perfect storm, if you like, for this kind of activity. I think it's a mutual experience. It's people still using them and being drawn to those areas, and likewise the spiritual energy having the same kind of connection. And I think when you have something like that mutually being experienced, I do think the possibility to then have some kind of an encounter is enhanced. So it makes complete sense to me.
Sylvia Shults: Absolutely. I mean, there are a lot of people that have the idea that ghosts only drift around dark, spooky castles or abandoned areas or places where great tragedy has happened. But we do need to remember that ghosts were people just like us, and they enjoyed a nice day out. They enjoyed a good picnic. And why should that change after death? I really believe that our energy doesn't dissipate. It doesn't go anywhere. It's still there. It's around. And people in life are drawn to places of happiness and excitement. Why would it be any different for those who have already passed on? They're not going to want to hang around a dreary old mansion. They're going to want to be around the living and get the energy and the vibes from the living that are having fun. Why wouldn't they want to hang around amusement parks or zoos where people are enjoying themselves? It's fun.
Michelle : I completely agree with you. Just thinking about what you were just saying. I also think there's something about the reason why there is that misconception of, well, the perfect haunted location is that spooky Castle or that old manor house and go and explore it at night is because they're the ones that people typically talk about.
Sylvia Shults: Yeah, there is that too.
Michelle : But it's that thing of, well, actually, we know that ghosts can be just in ordinary, mundane homes. They can be in your schools and your libraries and your supermarkets, anywhere. This type of thing can happen anywhere. But they just don't get talked about. It's not that they don't happen. It's not that they only happen in this vacuum of the Haunted castle. It's just that certain places get certain spotlights in a way that lesser known attractions and places and locations don't. And again, this is why this is so beautiful, because it kind of explodes some of those myths of, well, it's only these types of locations, these types of places that are really going to have these experiences. No, people have paranormal experiences and ghostly encounters anywhere. Absolutely anywhere. There is no limit. And that's something that I think people, again, if you're really not part of the paranormal world and really looking at these types of accounts, maybe people just don't understand because they've bought into what they've seen on TV or read in the huge volumes of work that's out there in terms of types of locations.
Michelle: To celebrate heading into the spookier season. Autumn nights, howling wind and freezing rain. Halloween spookiness in the dark depths of winter. Haunted history Chronicles will be posting daily podcasts on Patreon on all tiers over there, as well as the usual additional items offered. Signing up now will gain you access to these as well as all previous archived content for as little as one pound. You could be getting hundreds of podcasts to enjoy writing source material and more, and know that you are contributing and helping the podcast to continue to put out more content. You can find the link in the episode description notes as well as on the Haunted History Chronicles website or social media. So why not come along to enjoy a rich web of accounts perfect for this season? Dark tales of corpses, ghosts, folklore, Christmas and Halloween, macabre traditions and connections, and a whole lot more. And now let's head back to the podcast.
Michelle : I'm curious. I mean, you mentioned earlier as well about how part of what you kind of saw coming through in terms of some of that activity was linked to artifacts either on site or being brought in. I mean, it's a big topic, a big kind of talking point around the paranormal and what that can kind of conjure in terms of residual haunting, but intellectual haunting. And again, I'm just curious if there was a particular account where an artifact had a really interesting story for you that you wanted to make sure got into the book in terms of either the historical understanding or the ghostly connection with it.
Sylvia Shults: Well, of course, I'm going to have a big old soft spot for the screaming mummy at the Field Museum, but I was also very taken with artifacts from your side of the pond when I was telling you before the show that I had the opportunity to go ghost hunting for three weeks in England and Scotland earlier this year, and I was able to see a couple of these artifacts for myself. I had already written this part of the book by the time I went, so it was a real treat for me to see these artifacts in person. The Victorian Albert Museum in London has a couple of haunted artifacts. They've got the great bed of Ware, which is gorgeous. Holy cats. I did not expect it to be that colorful. The hangings on the bed are these red and gold and yellow, and it's just this riot of color. And there was also the delightful chair that used to belong to Ava Marie Weigel, who was the wife of actor David Garrick. Ava died in 1822, but this was her favorite chair. And it's this gorgeous little thing of green brocade. There's this lovely flower pattern on the seat, and I did not witness this, unfortunately. I invited her to come sit on her chair in front of me, and she did not take me up on that invitation, unfortunately. But I did get to see the chair, and I have seen pictures on the Internet of that cushion sinking as though under the weight of a human being. And that lovely fleur de Lee in the brocade kind of crunches in, and it looks like it's folding in on itself because it's being pressed down by some invisible weight. So that was a real treat for me, to see both of those artifacts in person and in glorious living color again.
Michelle : I just think it makes it more real, doesn't it? It really does bring the history or the activity to life when you can see something like that firsthand. And I think it's fascinating, because, again, it allows you to understand the types of hauntings that can be very unique to places, because obviously, if something has been moved from one completely different geographical location to another, sometimes the activity that comes through in terms of the haunting is very different to what you would expect. But it makes complete sense when it's something connected with an artifact that has been moved, sometimes much further away. And they can be small artifacts or big artifacts. I mean, a classic example being things like the London Bridge when it was replaced, the bricks being transported all the way over to the States, and those residual hauntings of Victorian London scenes and people in America. But yet again, makes complete sense when you know that historical context to something.
Sylvia Shults: Oh, yes. I am absolutely thrilled by that story of London Bridge, how it made its way to Arizona. I believe it was. Yeah, that's one of my favorite ghost stories. I've got a lot of favorites.
Michelle : But it's fascinating because it does mean that, though, that kind of history and the paranormal activity isn't then confined. It explains how you can get hauntings of someone from a completely different culture in a different country and the experience of seeing something or having something from a different culture somewhere completely different. And again, I just think it really does explode some of those myths as to what types of experiences people expect that they have around questions around the paranormal.
Sylvia Shults: One of the favorite stories, one of my favorite stories in this book, one of the ones that was just gifted to me out of the blue, is I mentioned about the Milwaukee Public Museum. My friend Alison Jorndlin shared this story with me, and she told me that she had spoken with a security guard at the museum. And security guards are a wealth of stories because they're in these places when the public is not, when it's dark and when it's quiet and when it's only a handful of people in the building. So security guards are a great source of stories. But this security guard was doing her rounds at the museum, and she was actually waiting for her shift to start. The museum had only been closed for about half an hour or so, and she was looking up at the mezzanine in the museum, and she saw movement up there, and she knew where all the other guards were. And she's like, there's not supposed to be anybody up there. So she went up to investigate, and in the hallway that led away from the mezzanine, she saw a dark shadow dart across the floor. And she said that it was this formless black mist that kind of hovered in the air like a swarm of flies. That's how she described it. This guard, instead of screaming like a little girl and running the other direction, like I might have done. I don't know what I would have done. Faced with something like that, something that visceral, intangible. She actually followed this cloud as it went down the hallway. And the hallway ended in a dead end. And she said, there's nowhere for this cloud to go. But she was wrong. She followed this black mass of something or other. She followed it all the way down the hallway. And the blob drifted over to the display of Peruvian mummies that was in a room at the end of that hall. And one of the mummies was a female. She was lying on her side, curled in the fetal position, the way the Peruvians prepared their dead. And her long black hair was faded to a dusty gray. And her one withered hand was fisted next to her cheek. And her mouth, in the decay process, had fallen open before her skin had mummified. So her mouth was yawning open in this gaping scream. And she was wrapped in a finely woven blanket that had faded with it was the dust of centuries on this blanket that was wrapped around her. And this blob of darkness went through the glass of the display and went straight into this mummy's mouth and disappeared.
Michelle : Oh, that just gives me chills.
Sylvia Shults: Yeah, me too. I've told that story a dozen times so far, and it still creeps me.
Michelle : Out, but it's so fascinating. And that's the really kind of unique, unusual element. There's just something about that that I would defy anybody to not have that kind of hit.
Sylvia Shults: Seen. I have read so many ghost stories, and I've been told so many ghost stories, and this is like, the story Allison shared with me is like nothing I had ever heard before. And for someone who's been fascinated with this for her entire life, to hear a brand new story was just a gift.
Michelle : But again, I think it's because we have this saturation of, well, the ghost story is the Victorian or the medieval figure that's dressed in a particular color and looks a certain way and walks the ramparts. Yeah, it's not always that, but that here you have something very much tied to a museum and an artifact from a completely different culture and civilization, but yet is so haunting and so evocative in terms of what that shows, that experience. It's visceral, and that's truly supernatural. And again, that's the kind of spotlight that some of these accounts need to have, because they really, truly show that range and explode those myths, as I've been saying. But yeah, that one really does get you hairs in the back of my necker.
Sylvia Shults: Up. The South Americans keep surprising me. A friend of mine, Ophelia Julian, shared, again, shared a story with me. She had been to the field museum, where there was a traveling exhibit of South American mummies. And again, the mummy is crouched in a fetal position. And with this particular display, the curators had decided to present the burial as it looked when it was discovered, which meant that this mummy was still in the soil in which it was found. They just picked this entire cube of soil up, put glass around it, and that's how it was displayed. And this square was obviously very, very heavy because it included not only this mummified body, but also the soil around it and, of course, the heavy glass protecting it. And Ophelia said that she was talking with a security guard, and the security guard told her that the curators had used a forklift to place this glass display case on a pedestal so that museum visitors could look at it from all angles and not have to stoop down. The security guard said that one day he came into that exhibit and that glass case was sitting on the floor next to the pedestal.
Michelle : Wow.
Sylvia Shults: Yeah.
Michelle : Doesn't this just inspire you, though, to just want to go and visit every single museum and attraction and zoo all over the world?
Sylvia Shults: Oh, man. Oh, yes, it does.
Michelle : But again, I think it inspires people. What do you have on your own doorstep? What stories do you have that you haven't heard of yet? It's something very encouraging in the sense that it really does make you want to find out what could be happening elsewhere. What other stories haven't been uncovered that you want to find out about? Because each one is so unique and engrossing and even having read, hearing it, you're just like, oh, my gosh, it's got me again. There's something very unique and just keeps grabbing you time and time again about them.
Sylvia Shults: I am still discovering stories. There were stories that friends of mine that I met in the UK this spring shared with me. They shared them with me after I got back and after the manuscript had been turned in. And I know there are so many more stories out there, so it is very possible that years down the line, there will be a gone on vacation too, because I'm still finding these stories and I really would love to share more of these stories with people. That is my greatest joy, is sharing these stories.
Michelle: Yeah.
Michelle : For all the reasons that we've talked about, just the unique look into the history or the location or these very unique stories of hauntings, but also just that sense of place and understanding and all of the richness and the experiences that people will have had over the centuries through those places. I mean, all of it. It just ticks every single box, and it's magical. There's still that mystery, that wonder that has always been part of these locations still in the telling of the stories that still take place when it comes to the hauntings experienced. It's fascinating.
Sylvia Shults: It truly is magical. Yes.
Michelle : And whoever came up with the line for the book know the ticket in. I mean, it's.
Sylvia Shults: My. My publisher, Troy Taylor, is absolutely brilliant. Yeah. He's the one who came up with the COVID design and the ticket on the COVID with the subtitle Haunted Zoos, Museums, and amusement Parks. And when the book came out, it was very close to my birthday, so I treated myself to a trip to the Museum of Science and Industry to see their Pompeii exhibit. And I brought a copy of Gone on Vacation with me, and I showed it off to people, and I showed it to the security guard. I told you about that talk that was in charge of the U 505. And he's the one who told me the story about Peter. Check. And how it might not have been a suicide after all. And he took one look at the COVID and he immediately recognized the Ferris wheel on the COVID because the very first Ferris wheel ever was built for the 1893 World's Colombian Exposition. That happened in Jackson park in Chicago on the lakefront, which is where the Museum of Science and Industry is right now. The building that that is in is the only building left from the exposition. They remodeled it, of course, but, yeah, that is the one remaining building that's left over from the Colombian Exposition. And he recognized it immediately, and I was so pleased. And when I was there at the museum, I'll throw this in there really quick. If you go to any of these places and you want to take a selfie and you don't have anyone to take a selfie with because you're there by your lonesome. And the very back of the book, there is a little cartoon ghost that my sister Miriam Drew. And I highly encourage you to get a copy of the book and bring it with you to any of these places that you happen to explore on your own. And you can use this little cartoon ghost, hold it up next to you, take a selfie, and post it on social media with the hashtag gone on vacation.
Michelle : I just want to do that right now. I think the winter is coming in. I was only saying to someone, the other day that autumn seems to have been and gone in the blink of an eye. The trees, the beautiful colors of autumn just were there 1 minute and gone the next, and now it's just cold and wet and. Yeah, I just think, gosh, it would be wonderful just to go out and explore some of these places. And I would absolutely love to be able to experience some of the locations that you've talked about and written about in the book, and likewise just travel all over and get to experience these places all over the world. Because, again, there's just something very magical about them. And I'm so appreciative that you've started putting this collection together with hopefully more to come.
Sylvia Shults: It is quite possible there are so many more stories out there just waiting to be discovered.
Michelle : And I'm really hopeful that if people listening have their own unique stories of maybe somewhere that they've worked or a living museum that they've been to, or a location that they've been to somewhere locally or further afield, I'd love to hear them. I just think they are really fascinating places when it comes to the paranormal. And, yeah, I'd love to hear more from people.
Sylvia Shults: Gosh, Michelle, I didn't even think about living museums.
Michelle : Oh, there's some cracking ones in the United Kingdom. Absolutely brilliant ones.
Sylvia Shults: I didn't know you guys even did that. I mean, we've got Jamestown and Plymouth. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I'll have to explore that. All right. I'm going to go on record to say there definitely will be a gone on vacation, too, thanks to Michelle.
Michelle : Good. But they are fascinating places. I mean, we've got. I've got two favorites. One is in the north of England, which is a place that I first explored when I was about 13 on a history trip.
Sylvia Shults: Okay.
Michelle : And I have been so many times. And it's called the Black Country Museum. It's called that because of the connection in the area with industry and mining and so on.
Sylvia Shults: Oh, yeah. North of England, sure.
Michelle : But it is basically an entire village where every house, every bit of kind of thing that's in there, down to the utensils, down to the vehicles, down to the trams, the buses, the amusement park, the sweet shops, the fairground, everything that is in there has been brick by brIck, placed or brought from somewhere around the United Kingdom to create what life was like if you lived in the Black country area at that time. You get to go down into the mines. You get to go inside the houses and see workers cooking over a Spitfire. You get to see people tending their garden. I mean, it's fantastic. It's absolutely brilliant. You get to go into the pubs, you get to go onto the barge, you get to experience real confectionery made. You get to go into the apothecary and see them making the pills by hand and cutting them. It's brilliant. It's absolutely fantastic.
Sylvia Shults: Oh, my goodness. Well, that's on my bucket list for my next trip over there. I'll tell you what, I have got to see this for myself.
Michelle : I'm going to take you if you come. Honestly, it's just amazing. And there's another place in Wales called St Faggins which is very, very similar. They have wonderful examples of residual and intellectual hauntings that are connected to these buildings.
Sylvia Shults: Oh, boy, oh, boy, oh, boy.
Michelle : Somewhere completely different again, because they've been transported and they've been recreated to replicate life, to replicate these towns and these communities. It's brilliant. And they have everything. Churches, schools, every type of building you would expect are there. It's fabulous.
Sylvia Shults: Fantastic. I love it.
Michelle : So I can now count that there is going to be a book, too. I look forward to it.
Sylvia Shults: Oh, boy. Thank you so much, Michelle, for pointing me towards this. And, yeah, I am very eager to explore both of those places. And I'm chomping at the bit to get working on this new book.
Michelle : Honestly, it's been so much fun talking to you, but also just eye opening and interesting and fascinating. It's just, like I said, this is a way into something very magical and mysterious and supernatural. And I think the book is something that anybody would enjoy. Whether you are somewhere completely different in the world, you're going to love it. If you are a history enthusiast, if you like the paranormal, if you like ghost stories, if you just like something interesting and a bit different, this is for you. I really cannot recommend it highly enough. It's fabulous. Thank you. And I just think it's a book that you would want to pick up time and time and time and time again, put you back into that feel that you get when you read it and turn each page. It's just brilliant.
Sylvia Shults: Thank you. And I'm told, I recently discovered that gone on vacation is available at foils in London.
Michelle : No. Yes.
Sylvia Shults: Wow. Blew my mind.
Michelle : That's quite an accomplishment.
Sylvia Shults: I know, right? I was stunned. I was absolutely floored to see that. And, yeah, wow. I've made it to foil. So cool.
Michelle : Brilliant.
Sylvia Shults: Well done, you.
Michelle : I'm not surprised, though. I'm really not surprised. It's a brilliant, brilliant book.
Sylvia Shults: Thank you so much.
Michelle : So, thank you so much for your time. It's been incredible to chat with you and I will make sure to include in the podcast description notes, obviously links to the book and to you so people can easily find it. If they haven't, they need it on their, I don't know, their Christmas wish list.
Sylvia Shults: Yes, Christmas is right around the corner.
Michelle : All of it. All of it. It would make a brilliant gift to yourself or to someone else, I think. Absolutely. Or an early gift.
Sylvia Shults: You know. Is it Iceland? They have the tradition and I forget exactly what it's called. There's a name for it, of course, because it's Iceland. They have their tradition of giving books at Christmas time because it is the perfect time in the deepest winter to curl up with a book underneath a blanket with something hot and lovely at your side and to sip on. I've always found that to be a wonderful Christmas. Tradition is the gifting of books I always love.
Michelle : And I get really inspired when I see people doing the advents as books and gifted those instead of the chocolate Advent calendars are lovely and the beautiful boxes that now every company seems to do, whether it's candles or fragrances or whatever else. But I just think the idea of a book each day is magical through that kind of period. And yeah, just opens up so many windows and places and aspects of history, doors opening up for someone to step into a different world and just enjoy themselves. Whether it's fiction, nonfiction, ghost stories. I mean, you can cover so many things through that idea. I think it's a lovely tradition having books and stories at Christmas time, and very much suits that narrative, doesn't it, of traditional Victorian ghost storytelling and just spending time around a fire. So yes, I'm hoping lots of people have this one on their Christmas wish list because they won't be disappointed. Anyway, I will say thank you again and goodbye to everybody listening. Bye everybody. Bye.
Sylvia Shults is the author of several books of paranormal nonfiction, including Gone on Vacation: Haunted Zoos, Museums, and Amusement Parks, the award-winning Days of the Dead: A Year of True Ghost Stories, and Grave Deeds And Dead Plots. She sits in dark, spooky, haunted places so you don't have to. She has spent the last twenty-five years working at a public library, slowly smuggling out enough words in her pockets week after week to build a book of her own. She lives a short, ten-minute motorcycle ride away from the haunted asylum that features in so many of her books. She considers it the highest privilege to share the incredible, compassionate history of the Peoria State Hospital.
After battling an intense, lifelong fear of the dark, Sylvia decided to become a ghost hunter. (What WAS she thinking?) As a paranormal investigator, she has made many media appearances, including a tiny part in the Ghost Hunters episode "Prescription for Fear", about the Peoria State Hospital.
She is the writer, narrator, director, and producer of the true ghost story podcast Lights Out With Sylvia Shults, available on any podcast platform, and on YouTube.
Sylvia loves hearing from her readers, especially when they have spooky stories of their own to share with her. She can be found at www.sylviashults.wordpress.com, and on Facebook at the pages for Fractured Spirits, Lights Out, and Ghosts of the Illinois River.