Gnomes In The Park: The Wollaton Encounter With Kate Ray

Michelle: Welcome to haunted History Chronicles, the podcast where we unravel the mysteries of the past one ghostly tale at a time. I'm your host, Michelle, and I'm thrilled to be your guide on this eerie journey through the pages of history. Picture this a realm where the supernatural intertwines with the annals of time, where the echoes of the past reverberate through haunted corridors and forgotten landscapes. That's the realm we invite you to explore with us. Each episode will unearth stories, long buried secrets, dark folklore, tales of the macabre, and discuss parapsychology topics from ancient legends to more recent enigmas. We're delving deep into locations and accounts all around the globe, with guests joining me along the way. But this podcast is also about building a community of curious minds like you. Join the podcast on social media, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram to share your own ghostly encounters, theories, and historical curiosities. Feel free to share with friends and family. The links are conveniently placed in the description for easy access. So whether you're a history buff with a taste for the supernatural or a paranormal enthusiast with a thirst for knowledge, haunted history chronicles is your passport to the other side. Get ready for a ride through the corridors of time where history and the supernatural converge, because every ghost has a story, and every story has a history. And now let's introduce today's podcast. August. Picture this. It's the autumn of 1979. In the tranquil surroundings of Wolliton park in Nottingham, a group of schoolchildren out for an evening walk suddenly find themselves in the midst of something out of a fairy tale. Imagine, if you will, a serene park bathed in the golden hues of a setting sun, suddenly becoming the stage for an extraordinary event. The children describe seeing a group of small, bearded figures, no more than 3ft tall, dressed in red and yellow, driving what can only be described as miniature cars. This strange procession of gnome like beings moved with purpose, weaving in and out of the trees, oblivious to the astonished stares of their young observers. Their encounter with a group of gnome like figures has baffled investigators, intrigued folklorists, and left a permanent mark on the paranormal landscape of the UK for over four decades. But what did they really see? Was it a collective hallucination? A trick of the fading light? Or did they truly step into a world that lies hidden just beneath our own? Other curious cases exist in our history, where groups of children have come face to face with beings that seemingly stepped out of folklore and into our world. In 1969, the blue man of Studham terrified a group of boys with his eerie otherworldly appearance. While in 1754, children in Wales stumbled upon what they believed were fairies, their encounter echoing through the centuries as one of the most detailed and intriguing fairy sightings on record. Yet no other account has been as meticulously documented as the Wollaton gnome case. With numerous sources corroborating the children's story, it stands as one of the most intriguing, mystifying and compelling pieces of evidence in the field of paranormal research. But what does it mean? Today, we're peeling back the layers of this extraordinary event and asking the questions that continue to puzzle even the most seasoned paranormal investigators. Joining me is someone who has spent years delving into this very mystery. Kate Ray. Kate is a renowned paranormal investigator, a practicing witch, and the author of Woolly the Curious Case of the Wooliton Gnomes. Kate has a deep fascination with the FAE. Her insights are not just rooted in investigation, but also in her practice as a witch and her studies in parapsychology. Kate brings a unique perspective, balancing her belief in the supernatural with a healthy dose of skepticism, ensuring that our journey through the unknown is both thrilling and grounded. So fasten your seatbelts, or perhaps in the spirit of today's topic, your miniature car seatbelts. As we drive into the heart of this mystery, remember that as we peel back the layers of history and folklore, we might just glimpse something that defies our understanding. And who knows? Maybe the next time you take an evening walk in a quiet park, you might find yourself questioning what truly lies hidden in the shadows. Without further ado, let's dive into the world of the Wooliton gnomes and try and uncover the truth behind one of the most bizarre encounters in history.

Michelle: Hi, Kate. Thank you so much for joining me this evening.

Kate Ray: Thank you for having me on. I'm looking forward to this.

Michelle: Do you want to start by just.

Michelle: Telling us a little bit about yourself and your background?

Kate Ray: Yeah, I suppose I'm under the banner of jack of all trades, master of none. But I like the second part of that, which is better than being master of one. So I am a paranormal investigator, predominantly. I do have a real passion for fairies, if you like, but it's not particularly what people think. I have been in the past. I've been a secondary school teacher. I'm a crafter and an artist. And I'm also an accidental author if.

Michelle: You think about all those many hats that you have there, because there's a lot of things there that you spin. How did you get interested, then, in researching the paranormal and cases like the Wollaton gnomes? Encounter what kind of you drew you to those specifically, I think.

Kate Ray: And I've come across more and more people from this sort of quarter, more recently than not. But the paranormal was something that I can't ever remember not being part of my understanding of the world. So even being a small child, I had an unwavering belief in other realms and other beings. And I had a few sort of more spooky encounters as a kid, but nothing really major. And as I grew older, it kind of dissipated a little bit. But my research element was always there. I was always interested heads in different books about different elements of high strangeness, supernatural. And the fairies had kind of always held a fascination for me. I never believed that they were how we were being portrayed within sort of a childish context. So how I was seeing them on tv or reading about them didn't ring true to me. And it was when I came across the work of Brian Froud, who is an artist. He was one of the concept artists on the labyrinth and actually worked on the labyrinth movie with David Bowie that I suddenly had an aha. Moment of somebody else sees and understands and gets the fact that these beings are not necessarily glamorous. And so that was the fairy theme that's kind of run through my life. I became a paranormal investigator on the ground in terms of field research within the last sort of decade of. And that was born out of fear. So I had a deep seated fear of that side of things, and I decided that it was time to face my fear. And literally, when I'd made that decision that I was going to be doing that and facing that particular taboo, the universe just provided me with some amazing opportunities. And that's grown into sort of the bulk of my work now where I write for Haunter magazine, I go out and run events. I also do residential investigation as well. So it's kind of all run concurrently, but interweaved in a very strange way over the last sort of decade.

Michelle: Something that you said, I think really resonates for me. And it's something I've spoken about on podcasts before with other guests. You know, this perception of what people expect fairy encounters, gnome encounters, to be based on, you know, victorian imagery or artistic impressions from certain periods that have just continued. Things like Disney, Tinkerbell, you know, these very iconic imagery that have just become so saturated in people's consciousness that actually, when you talk through a lot of experiences and encounters, I think it surprises people to realize the kind of things that people experienced, because from my perspective, part of what I find so fascinating about it. Besides the fact that, you know, growing up, I had an avid interest myself. I lived by a little fairy wood. So you can imagine I was playing in there all the time. My friend Armorel Hamilton paints fairies, creates fairies. She's worked with Brian vrouty, you mentioned. So, you know, I have these associations anyway. But apart from that, my interest really kind of comes in with these encounters. If you sit them alongside, you know, historic examples of a ghostly encounter, in many cases, they're pretty much identical. There is this real overlap, and that's where I think people can be quite surprised that there are these very, very similar experiences that have been reported for centuries.

Kate Ray: Yeah, I think you're absolutely right there. And it's something that, more and more, I've become an advocate within the paranormal community to look at that question in depth. And I just want to say, I also know Irma Allan. She's a wonderful person. So I've known her for about 20 years now, and she's definitely with her artwork in the fable. She definitely nails it for me as well, in terms of imagery.

Michelle: I just remember her being on the school bus and her various artworks. Yeah, we used to kind of go all over the place, so we were forever going to Avery and, you know, rocking up somewhere and doing something crazy. But that was our. That was my childhood experience.

Kate Ray: Wow, that's a good one. I mean, to, you know, she really understands that kind of that side of the world and that side of the universe. And I think, in terms of haunting, you're definitely right. I mean, there's a new modern fairy census. The second one came out at the beginning of this year, which is a body of work by Doctor Simon Young. And the amount of creatures in there that are not atypical, that are very much based more in the understanding of folklorish type entities, is phenomenal. So we still see the very atypical, winged, sylph like creatures, which is that victorian, edwardian, sexualised, diminutive female figure. But more and more, these things are made from twigs, or look like rock, or look like a mishmash of animals, or look very gnarly and old and wrinkly. And it's actually been really refreshing to see that people have been submitting these account accounts within that, that are of that ilk. And one of the other things that's quite shocking about, especially the first census, the second census is so big that I'm going through it, trawling through it bit by bit, but definitely in the first census, there is an amazing amount of activities that would have been put down to things like poltergeists or alien abduction or apparitional experiences. That people are now saying there was something about it that didn't feel quite like that, that felt more fairy. There is a change in the tide, which is very interesting.

Michelle: And this is why I think it is so incredibly important to investigate and document and collate and collect and scrutinize these. And not just, you know, modern examples, but historic examples. Because I think for so long, you know, for many, they weren't taken seriously, quite frankly.

Kate Ray: Yeah.

Michelle: And I think that's. That's a real shame. And I think it's something that is absolutely essential to. To continue that work of investigating. Because I think there's so much that it can reveal. And, yeah, I think it's brilliant that you're part of doing that work. Because it's so important, in my opinion, to be able to kind of add to the picture.

Kate Ray: Yeah, definitely. I mean, you can imagine how this kind of theory and hypothesis was met when it was about five years ago that I started talking to colleagues within the paranormal community. And it was met how you would have expected. You know, there was a lot of Mickey taking when I spoke to people about it. Because I was saying that not all the hauntings that we're coming across are human entities. And for me, demonics is a religious classification. So we need to be thinking, what else is there? And when I said the word fairies, my teammates just thought I'd gone absolutely off the cliff in terms of being mad. But slowly I've been able to talk to people about it in a context where they can understand that. Hold on a minute. There may be something in this. And I think people are being. That belief in people's encounters is definitely on the rise between myself and other people. Because I'm part of the fairy investigation society, between myself and others who are collating experiences. There is a more willingness to talk about this. That was very, very much a taboo subject. And people are definitely more comfortable these days with talking about it.

Michelle: And again, just to echo that, I think in the same way that for a long time, you know, if somebody had an experience of. Of something that they would class as ghostly and apparition, poltergeist type activity, anything along that spectrum for many. For a long time, they didn't say anything because of fear of ridicule. And I think this is something that for those that have had encounters experiencing, seeing something fairy, gnome, anything, again, along that spectrum of what they would identify their experience as being it's been the same thing. But I do think there is this change in attitude, this very refreshing movement that I think is making it much more open to talk about. And I do credit the people who, like yourself, who have been working so hard for years in terms of gathering this kind of data, collecting these experiences, speaking on podcasts, writing about it, and really kind of helping to promote the message in really positive ways so that it's become less taboo and much more open and something that should be accepted as part of, again, this paranormal, very large umbrella of experiences.

Kate Ray: I think that that's partly to do with the rise and people being more open about traditional and pagan beliefs within this country. I think that that's definitely helped. But for me, the biggest shift and the most concentrated shift came within the lockdowns. So I saw woodlands being transformed into fairy woodlands with fairy doors being attached to the bottom of trees and people leaving offerings in places that had never had this kind of activity. And we saw people getting out into nature and wanting to experience nature because it was such a short period of time that we were allowed to be outside our properties, that I think people were seeing things in a different way. I mean, there was also a rise of interaction with animals. Animals became incredibly unfazed about human interactions. I had some incredible experiences with deer and hare and badgers at that time, which I've never encountered before. So there was this feeling that people wanted to believe in something other than the world that they were living in, for a start. But secondly, that nature was this place that was more than just what we thought. Because people blindly walk through woodlands. They'll take the dog for a walk, they'll be on the phone or they don't sit and interact. But there was a definite change in the air at that time. And I don't think it stopped. I think people still have those positive feelings towards natural spaces and places.

Michelle: I completely agree. I think it just allowed us almost to reclaim our nature around us. We suddenly recognized it and saw it again for many. For the first time in so long, I think we're so consumed with gadgets and everything being so fast paced and fast moving. It gave us that moment to step outside and appreciate what was around us and to explore what was around us again in a very different way. And yeah, I think you're right. I think it had that kind of experience for many of just suddenly seeing the world in a very different light. And like I said, just almost reclaiming something that has been there and around us for centuries and almost taking us back to some, I think almost those same kind of attitudes and beliefs of, of long before industrialization type thing.

Michelle: It almost kind of allowed us to.

Michelle: Connect with the world just so differently. I think it was a really powerful catalyst for some of that.

Kate Ray: Yeah, definitely. And, I mean, there was an uprising, people going to sacred monuments and people being interested in different sacred spaces, and there was that yearning to be. To be reconnected and have a relationship with the land and our history. You know, it was a phenomenal time for things like that. And like I say, you know, I've always gone to places like yourself, like Avebury and burial chambers, mounds, you know, sacred woodlands. And after that lockdown period, places that you'd go to and you'd see maybe one other person there in an afternoon. They were teeming with people, people that, you know, were genuinely interested and genuinely interested, not in the history so much as the energy. So people were seeking out an energetic connection with those spaces and places. And it's been so lovely to see that.

Michelle: So we're going to be kind of coming to the Wollaton gnome case, and I know that you have written a book, the Willie Snots, which is a fabulous title. Do you want to just kind of, for anybody listening, just give them a kind of a flavour as to what they would expect from your book?

Kate Ray: I'll start with the title, because it'll give you an idea of the journey that I was on. And I do sigh every time I say the title and the subtitle is actually the title that was going to be the main title, which is a curious case of the Wooliton names of. But the title of the book was something that bothered me for a long time. And I was actually writing. I'd actually just written an academic paper for a book about the Woolton names for Doctor Simon Young, for the fairy Investigation Society. And all the way through that, and I know you'll understand that. I felt like I was being bothered to. To take it in a different direction. And it was the title, really. I started formulating ideas about the story, but the title. I messaged a good friend of mine, Doctor Neil Rushton, he's my co host on the podcast, and said, I've got this title and it's ridiculous. And he messaged back and said, yes, it is ridiculous. You will kind of understand where the title comes from as the book goes on. And it's no spoiler if I tell you Woolley comes from Wooliton hall, where it took place. So it's kind of a nickname for the space in the property. And Snox comes from the old English for Nottingham, which was Snottingham. But I felt all the way through writing that the gnomes were actually giving me images. I would ask a question, I was given an image of the next part of the story, which sounds bizarre, but I actually wrote the book in seven days. And I sat down, I got up in the morning, I couldn't do anything other than sit down and write this book. So it was an extraordinary experience and I've never ever had that in my life with writing before, ever. It's usually quite hard work for me to craft things. So it was like I was being given a cinematic front seat to the story unfolding. But it's based around the real case, the curious case of the Wollaton gnomes. And when I was writing about it in this academic sense, I kept getting almost the gnomes saying, this is why this happened. This explains this element of the story. This is why we're in Woolerton park. This is our history, this is our community, and this is who we are. And this was our experiences beyond the encounter that took place in Wollaton park. So although it's kind of geared, marketed at sort of key stage three, key stage four age children, it was never written for children. It was never actually written to be published. That was a serendipodous thing that happened to me. But it just birthed itself into the world and it's just gone off on its own merry way, which is lovely.

Michelle: I think it's such a charming kind of very. It makes complete sense, though, because I think you read it. It reads so joyfully. That's the only way you can describe it. You get really pulled into it in a way that is. It's unlike any other experience I've ever had when reading a book cover to cover it is.

Kate Ray: That's made me grin from ear to ear. Thank you for that.

Michelle: I mean, just thinking about it, I've got goosebumps, literally goosebumps on my arms, because it is just so powerfully, like I said, joyful and immersive in a way that I've never experienced with a book. And I know this case, I know other similar cases. It's something, like I said, I've been interested in, but I don't know, it felt like something new, completely new. Like I was going along with it again for the first time. And it was just such an intriguing way of sharing the story that I think hearing your story just makes complete sense. It's almost something cathartic and intuitive as a process. And that's just incredible.

Kate Ray: It was. It was. I actually went with the. I was going along with the story as it was developing it, and it developed exactly how it's written. It wasn't as though I was structuring the next chapter, or I'd structured the chapters, or. I think the only thing that I had control on was the chapter headings, which really kind of didn't matter in the great scheme of things. But I was literally being given literally cinematic, full colour images. I'd get to a point where I was like, well, where's this going? Why are you giving me a. These bits of information? So I was just as kind of clueless, I think, as I was bimbling through this, you know, being given this. This energetic connection, it was. It was an amazing experience.

Michelle: And, you know, hearing that description of what it was like for you, it's almost. Well, it's very similar to mediumistic artists, for example, who shared their craft and their experiences. It's almost visceral in terms of just that you're being brought along for that journey, for that ride. But it is an incredible book. And I know you said it's kind of aimed at these particular ages, but I just think it's something that anybody of any age can pick up, enjoy, just again, become so immersed in and discover something that I think is so different. And if, you know, they have an interest and know about this case, it ticks all the boxes. It's certainly something that would be a fantastic read, but for someone who doesn't know anything either and wants to, it's a great book to pick up and explore.

Michelle: So it's just.

Michelle: I think it's one of those books that really doesn't conform to any boundaries of who it's for, what it should be for. I think it's what people will take from it. And again, that's the joy of this book. I think that it's not kind of. It doesn't fit a mould, which is brilliant.

Kate Ray: I think for me, it very much sort of, you know, being retrospective and sort of observational on it. It's definitely got the. The flavor of folklore, which is not, you know, it's for the young and for the old. You know, there are bits in there that, you know, I've had adults say they laughed out loud because they understood as an adult perspective what was happening and what was occurring. And equally, you know, children, there is that very much. There's a gentle ride for children within the story. So it's kind of. I like to think of it as a bit of a, you know, a campfire read, you know, sitting around, and it's something to be. To be enjoyed. Yeah, it's incredible. But I'm saying this because not in a kind of egotistical way, but in a way that I always say that I felt like I was used by the gnomes to tell their story. I don't. You know, it's almost like I just gave birth to this thing that was only partially mine in the first place. And I'm very grateful that wherever that muse and inspiration came from, that it chose me to sort of vessel it out into the world.

Michelle: And, you know, I must say, it really is a thing of beauty, because not only is it so well written, but the artistic elements are all you as well, and they are just. I don't know, it's like I said, it's just such an all encompassing book. You're able to enjoy it and appreciate it for so many different reasons. So it's one I very much, very much highly recommend to anybody to have a read. I don't think it would disappoint anyone, because it's just, like I said, there's just something so very joyful about it that just can't help but pull you in and give you a bit of a hug. And sometimes we need that, don't we?

Kate Ray: We do, we do. And I'm constantly asked when the next one is, and I keep saying it's when the gnomes decide that they've got another side quest or another tale to tell.

Michelle: So kind of coming to this case for anyone that doesn't know about it, do you want to just give a kind of a brief overview, if you like, a summary of the Wollaton Gnome encounter from September 23, 1979.

Kate Ray: So a group of children from one of the local schools, it wasn't the closest local school, had been messing around on a school grounds, which kind of butts up to Woollon park, and they'd been messing about for the evening and had, what seems like, spontaneously decided that they were going to go into Wooliton park, which is a huge deer park. And it was getting dusk when they went into the park. The park was completely closed, shut off from the public. But as kids in the 1970s, without computers and without electronics and what have you, that's the kind of thing that they did, which was great getting out there. So they said that it was between about 815 and 830 when they entered the park, and immediately when they came across an area that was not far away from where they entered into the park. And this is the ridiculous aspects of it. Well, this is the start of the ridiculous aspect of it. They came across 60 gnomes in 30 hovering cars. So this isn't a one off encounter with one small humanoid being that they encountered for, you know, a minute or two. And they had an incredible interaction with these gnomes. And they said that these gnomes had been chasing them around the park to the point where one of the children, I think it was Patrick, ended up falling in the marshland and getting absolutely covered in mud. They were laughing. They were playing almost a game of tag. And this interaction was a good period of time. You know, it was 1015 minutes, which, in terms of encounters, is a phenomenal amount of time, really, to be, you know, having this kind of interaction. So that was on the weekend. That was on a weekend. And when they went back to school, very quickly their headmaster caught wind of the story and separately interviewed the children involved. And this is what makes it such an interesting case, because it's one of the very rare cases where we have so much information so fresh from those experiences. So they were recorded talking about their interactions, talking about how the names looked, the language that the names used, their own feelings and thoughts and fears in that situation. And the headmaster was impeccable interviewing them in terms of the questions, weren't particularly leading questions, and he spoke about things like the light levels, and he was really quite thorough. So we have a good body of documentation about what actually occurred to those children.

Michelle: And again, this is, I think, like you said, it's one of the really incredible aspects of this case that it is so well documented almost immediately after the experience itself. But then, of course, itself, the experience is so intriguing because of the. The volume of gnomes that were reported being seen by the children. And like you mentioned, the length of time. It's not some fleeting, out of the corner of the eye experience. It's not something that happens in a moment and then is gone. This is an extended period of time of a group of children all reporting the same thing.

Kate Ray: Yes.

Michelle: Which is incredible. Absolutely incredible.

Kate Ray: And the stories, in terms of how they described the names and described their experience, I mean, they were subsequently interviewed by newspapers and on tv, and they didn't falter. And I had the very exceptional and very rare chance to speak very briefly with their head teacher last year. And one of the things that came out of that conversation was he said, I asked him, did you believe the children? And he said, yes, he believed them. And I asked him why he believed them, and he said, because they didn't have the imagination to create something so complex.

Michelle: You've worked in education. I work in education. I would love it if something like this could be conjured up and created by many of my students. And I think it would be the perfect dream in terms of some wonderful writing or some wonderful artwork that would.

Kate Ray: Come out of that at that time as well. In 1979, these children, although they were primary school age, they were very mature because they were very streetwise kids. And I also had the opportunity a couple of years ago to go into their school. I live locally within the county, and I went to. I wanted to see, because the school pretty much remains the same. So I wanted to have a sense of the school in the area. And it's not an incredibly wealthy area. It's on the outskirts of the city. And the intake of children, there are nothing particularly high academic achievers, but they are very street savvy that, you know, they are a little more kind of toughened up, I think, to the world. So even at that age, those children saying that within their peer groups, you know, for me, it would, you know, they weren't at all worried about any backlash that they were going to get, which, again, cements the fact that something did occur. Something did happen, that they were unfearful. I mean, if they'd have had this encounter and, you know, they were questioning whether they'd had it because it was very brief or they weren't quite sure of what. What had happened, I don't think that they would have told that story. I think they would have just buried that story. But they were so adamantous in the face of adversity, you know, with these very street savvy kids that surrounded them, that they just stuck to their guns adamantly. And they did it on telly and they did it throughout the newspapers, which were national. And that is just incredible that they were so stone set in their encounter, which makes it intriguing.

Michelle: So how did they describe the appearance of the gnomes then? What kinds of details did they share as part of the experience after the fact?

Kate Ray: So one of the things that they all described verbatim was they drove bubble cars. So if anybody doesn't know what that is, you know, 1960s had a bubble car which was very rounded in shape. Very small and very rounded in shape, because one of the questions that has been asked about that was had they seen people in golf carts? There's a golf course right next to Wollerton park. So that has been questioned. But their description is nothing like a golf cart, and I think that they would have said it was a cart and not a car. They described the gnomes of about two and a half, 3ft. They said that they had long beards and they were wearing very much primary colours, blues, yellows, reds, greens. Interestingly, they said that some of the gnomes had a slight tinge of either red or black on the end of the beards, which is, again, very specific. And they all had these sort of floppy caps that sat backwards with a bobble on. Now, again, that's been likened to noddy from the books and from the children's tv series. And they would have had that cultural reference, definitely. So that's something to be considered in the psychology of the case. But they. I mean, there were slight discrepancies in their descriptions, but that could have come from some of the children. We're kind of focused and interacting with one group of gnomes while a couple of other children were being chased by other gnomes. You know, have those, you know, discrepancies come from the fact that they. Their main focus became their main description. And we have drawings from the children as well. They draw them, you know, drew that a few days after and that was submitted to the head teacher, who then submitted it to newspapers and, you know, it's in the public domain to have a look at. So, yeah, their descriptions are very, very atypical, I think, of a gnome type creature, and they describe them as old, short, primary colours, long beards. It kind of fits the only. I think one or two of the children used the word dwarves very briefly as an interchangeable name, fall for the gnomes, but then would shift back into calling them gnomes. So dwarves, gnomes, you know, the same kind of. Same kind of ilk, but in terms of deviation from the main script that they were all, you know, singing from, there was very little, very, very little, which makes it an incredible case.

Michelle: You know, I know that you've investigated the area itself. What was that like? What was it like being able to go there and to spend time investigating the area around where this encounter happened? Because Wollaton park itself gets overlooked. But I think there's something quite magical about the location itself. And I don't know if you want to share more about the location and where the encounter occurred. And like I said, what it was like for you being able to go back there.

Kate Ray: I mean, I was very privileged to sort of rustle up some incredible people and we now do a biannual investigation around the Woolerton gnomes as kind of a core case but looking at a wider periphery. But the very first time we got together was a weekend in May a couple of years ago just to scope out Woolerton and to try and figure out and locate where the encounter had happened. Because although we have lots and lots of detailed recordings with the children talking about the encounter, nobody knows for sure where that encounter took place. And we spent an entire day only covering half of the park, looking around, checking it out and trying to get a sense and a feeling how the children had come into the park in the way that they'd gone. We were very lucky, actually, as part of that team. We have a very lovely psychic medium, Glenn Boddis, who helped guide us through on an energetic level as well. So we had lots of things to our disposal as we were going around. I think the feeling for all of us was very much. We'd all written for the Fairy Investigation Society on that Wooliton book, so we'd all been very much immersed for at least six months prior in the case from different aspects, but being on the ground and feeling the kind of the different energies and the different moods within Wollaton park itself really gave weight to how we've been researching and the things that we. That you miss, the subtleties that you miss when you are researching via online or libraries or communicating with people. And it was such a magical day. I mean, the bluebells were so thick that year, it was like a carpet of ultraviolet everywhere, which gave it such. It was static, it felt very, very kind of electric going through the wooded areas. Unfortunately, we kind of. We missed the area completely. Completely. We were in the wrong half of the park. But what happened from that first investigation was we were able to go back and relook at the maps, re look at the, the testimonies of the children to start saying, okay, then we need to put that to one side. But as we were researching, we were also finding out at the time there is quite a lot of unusual phenomena, high strangeness, hauntings, as well as fairy encounters that have happened in Wolliton park itself, you know, so just from that mistake that we made in the first place, we gained so much more for the next time that we actually went into the park. It's been in terms of collating information, being in the field and looking at the wider geography of Nottinghamshire and looking wider still to other accounts that are, that are very similar to Woolerton names has been invaluable and it's, it's only come from, from the field work that we've been doing.

Michelle: As the days grow shorter and the winter nights draw near, the chill in the air invites us to gather closer to the fire, where the flickering flames dance like spectres in the dark. It's during these colder months that that our spectral journey deepens, revealing even more chilling tales and unsolved enigmas. And now, dear listeners, is the perfect time to become an integral part of our ghostly congregation. With the night's lengthening and the shadows growing, we need your support more than ever to keep our supernatural flames burning bright. But fear nothing, for there are a myriad of ways you can help sustain our haunted explorations. Firstly, have you ever considered treating our podcast to a virtual coffee? Imagine it a humble offering to fuel our relentless pursuit of haunted histories as we delve into the unknown. Simply head over to Ko fi.com haunted history chronicles and join us for a caffeine infused seance. Your support helps keep the fire burning, allowing us to continue unearthing the darkest corners of history. But that's merely the beginning of our spectral soiree. For those intrepid souls yearning for deeper communion with the paranormal, consider joining our exclusive Patreon family. And here's some truly exciting news from the beginning of October through to the end of December. As the winter winds howl and the nights grow long, all Patreon supporters on any tier will be gifted with bonus daily podcasts. Yes, you heard that right. Daily doses of the supernatural to accompany you through the shorter days and colder nights. It's a veritable paranormal advent calendar for your soul, making this the perfect time to join the Patreon community. So why hesitate? Journey forth to Patreon. The links to the Haunted History Chronicles Patreon site is found in the podcast description notes or via the website. Become a Patreon today and let our tales of the eerie and unexplained be your nightly companions. But the spirit of generosity lingers still. If you seek to flaunt your allegiance to the podcast in more tangible ways, why not venture into our newly unearthed merchandise crypt? From mugs that whisper their secrets to clothing that echoes with ghostly laughter, the shop is a sanctuary for the discerning paranormal aficionado. Again, you can find links to the tea public shop via the website or podcast description notes so that you can traverse the haunted History chronicles shop to adorn yourself with our spectral regalia. Whether it's bestowing a virtual coffee, joining our spectral society on Patreon, or donning haunted history chronicles apparel, your support keeps the ethereal flames alight. Every spectral contribution fuels the pursuit of unearthly truths. So heed the call, dear listeners. The links to our spectral sanctuaries await in the shadows of the podcast description notes or via the website or social media platforms. Dare to embrace the unknown, to journey deeper into the veiled corridors of history. For only together can we keep the ghostly embers glowing, illuminating the darkness with tales untold. Now, as the fire crackles and the wind howls outside, let us return to the mysteries that beckon from beyond the veil. What spectres await? What secrets lie dormant, waiting to be unearthed? Let us venture forth, for the journey into the unknown has only just begun.

Michelle: So were there any specific maybe features or behaviors that the children described about the gnomes in terms of what they were doing that stood out for them?

Kate Ray: Oh, definitely. It's got to be their language. So they said that they were trying to communicate with them, but they had the. The language of laughter. So the gnomes were laughing, you know, and when I first heard that, I had a very sinister image in my head. I would have been terrified as a child. I think if, you know, the only way something could communicate to me was through laughter. But that was one of, I think, the most extraordinary aspects of the characteristics of Malone's Washington. They didn't say they spoke in another language. They didn't say they spoke in English. They said that they communicated through laughter. And I think Angela's quote along the lines of, that's one of the eldest girls in the case, she said they was joyful, they was happy, or something along those lines, which completely summarises that element of the case.

Michelle: And I think just that phrasing, that wording that they communicate through laughter, again, is just so rich because it says so much, I think, in terms of what the children experience and what it was like for them. But also this other kind of means of communicating, again, it's not something you would expect a child to say. And again, it's just another kind of tick to that statement that we were talking about earlier of it just adds a little bit more credence to this, that this is not something you would typically hear from children of their age or older, to be honest, about how these, how these creatures, these gnomes, these dwarves, whatever language they were using, it's not something you would expect. It's not atypical. It's not an atypical description of communication, let's put it that way.

Kate Ray: No, no, definitely not. And they could have quite easily said, you know, they were talking in a language that we didn't understand. It sounded foreign to. But they didn't. You know, it's another thing that if a child is not particularly fluent with their imagination, that it would. That that is quite a difficult thing to sort of conjure up, I think. And for them all to say that they were laughing. One of the other features about the names, which is extraordinary. So in all the interviews with the children, they were asked about the lighting. So at that time of year, we actually went back as an investigation group on the date, on the anniversary last year, and at that time of day in September, it would have been dusk to darkness very, very quickly. So they were in the park where there's. There's no lighting within the park. There's street lights around the park that give off an ambient glow. But they said that they were in one of the wooded areas, which is one of the marshed areas, and they were asked, how did you see the gnomes if it was dark and without missing a beat? I mean, I've actually heard the interview. So not just read the transcription, but heard it without a beat. They said they glowed. The gnomes gave off a luminescence, a light. And there was also lights in the trees, and that illuminated them that weren't street lights. And one of the phenomena within Wollaton park, and a friend of mine has actually witnessed this, is glowing orbs of light. And I know orbs are massively contentious within the paranormal field, but I think that they definitely have a place within. Looking at it very, very seriously with all kinds of different phenomena, and not just sort of brushing off as dust particles or whatever, but if it's seen with a naked eye like the children did, that's a different kettle of fish. They didn't photograph these lights. They said that these lights exist and they saw them with their eyes. So we've got glowing gnomes that laugh.

Michelle: Which is so specific. And again, just. It's so out of the realm of what you kind of expect from children. But when you think and compare to other similar experiences and sightings of, you know, light anomalies in locations, again, where there are historical examples of cases of fairy sightings, gnome sightings of that kind, again, you see similarities, and those are not similarities you would expect children to know about.

Kate Ray: No, definitely not. And it's not anything that we can particularly find within sort of art, literature, or tv programs that the children would have tapped into and sort of taken that on board. Like you say, these children weren't from particularly wealthy areas, so the access to a wide range of literature would have been literally just within the school. Going to a library, I will assume, is probably something they didn't particularly participate in. So having access to that imagery or access to that kind of influence through storytelling is not something that we've found. We've not found a connection between that yet. I'm not saying that there isn't, and I'm not saying that it's not out there, but, yeah, this is definitely from the imagination of the children, as far as I'm concerned.

Michelle: And I think you struck on something really important earlier with the, you know, touching upon the psychological impact of, say, things like Noddy, things that they may have had that's in their kind of conscious understanding. And I think this is where you. You could maybe see some things creeping in, but that's naturally something that we all do. If we see something we don't understand, we try and explain it. Our brains naturally try and create pictures and understanding of things that we can connect them to. So it's no surprise that some of those elements match up with experiences that they would have been familiar with at that time. And I think it's really important to make that note, because for most people who look at that case, they would look at that and use that as a. Well, that just proves it's rubbish. When in actual fact, that a naturally occurring thing that our brain does all of the time, we look for those patterns when we don't know what's happening.

Kate Ray: Yeah, I think that even mild trauma response, we psychologically overlay, like you say, to make sense. But the other aspect of it is it's, you know, it's a hypothesis within fairy folklore that actually these beings will appear to us in a way that we can understand who they are, what they are, and why they're appearing to us. For instance, those in the fairy senses that look like twigs, are they appearing like. Looking like a twig figure because they want to imbue on us that they're their job, and their role is to work with trees and bark. And maybe they don't look like that within their realm. Maybe they have a very different appearance and are able to use fairy glamour to transpose a message or an image that they want to put across.

Michelle: It echoes things that I hear from those who have abilities, where they receive messages, where they are gaining images psychically, if they are on investigation, investigations, etcetera. And, you know, they kind of tell it in almost identical ways that, you know, these are images that get to put to them that they can understand, so that they can begin to piece together what it is that they want to say, or what it is that they're hoping that, you know, this medium, this person with these sensitive abilities, is going to be able to pick up, pick up on, give them something that's in their sphere, that they're going to recognize. And suddenly there's a connection there that didn't exist before, to be able to pick up on other things then that are coming through. So again, it kind of matches up with other experiences and like I said, just things that our brain would naturally try and do. It's so completely and utterly compelling to me as an experience in a case. I mean, it's just quite. It's really quite phenomenal, the more you look at it, to be honest.

Kate Ray: Yeah. And I think you're right within terms of that symbolism that comes through with mediumship and psychic work. And it's something that I have on and off pondered. And I do particularly like the theory that as human beings, our very first attempts at complex language and conversation come through symbols. So we see cave paintings, and cave paintings predate any verbal communication. So we are predisposed to be able to dissect and examine symbols very quickly, where often it takes time for our brain to be able to understand verbal language. So something that could take, I suppose, for a psychic to decipher a whole sentence could be shown in just one image that resonates with you. So, yeah, it's a fascinating angle of the subject.

Michelle: So just kind of coming back to that kind of timeframe. What was the reaction from the local community? Because it was so heavily reported, a national event, but what was the reaction from people in the surrounding area?

Kate Ray: I think I've been incredibly lucky. Since the book was published last year, I've been going out and doing different markets and different. Having a smog stallone at various different venues around Nottingham. And I do a pagan market a couple of times a year in Snanton, which is in the city centre. And I've been able to talk to people about the Woolton names and about the case. And surprisingly, and it's local people and people who have lived in the area pretty much all their lives have. Majority of them have never even heard of it. And we go on from that, and those people who have heard of it had exactly the same reaction to me at the time. And even now that it is a ridiculous case, it just sounds so beyond anything of understanding that they struggle to come to terms with it. I think that probably mirrors the reaction at the time that people thought it was, I suppose, cute, or it was just child's play. And it was a nice quirky little story that put Nottinghamshire on the map and then it was forgotten about and people moved on from it.

Michelle: One of the really intriguing elements of the Wollaton gnome case, which again, I don't think is particularly well known unless you are interested in this.

Michelle: It's just the fact that there are.

Michelle: Other similar cases and entities that are described and known about in this area when it comes to Woolerton park itself. And you kind of alluded to this about going there. You kind of found other things, you experienced other things. You were able to kind of start to kind of piece together this broader kind of sense of the park itself. I don't know if you want to go into that, into some more detail because I do think it is an aspect of this that maybe doesn't have as much attention that there is this kind of local law, if you like, around this type of experience anyway, but other paranormal, strange, uncanny experiences that happen in this area.

Kate Ray: So Marjorie T Johnson was very much a part of fairy investigation society when it first, in its first incarnation and she wrote a book called seeing fairies and which is a collation of people's experiences. It's fascinating. So it's very, very early, I think it's up to the 1950s, but I could be completely wrong. I'm looking at the spine of the book now and I want to reach for it, but it's way over the other side of the room to get dates for you. But she was also local to Nottinghamshire and. Which gave her. She actually interviewed the children as well, but which gave her access to lots of people in Nottinghamshire and their experiences and she does document experiences in there. There's one of a lady who, and she talks about the standing in society of people who have these experiences, so she very much paints the lady as somebody who wouldn't particularly give in to this kind of folly. And this lady had an interaction with a small humanoid, so that's just one. There is a couple of others within Nottinghamshire that have come up in the fairy census that have been similar. But one of my favorite when we went out, I think it was the last. Last. No, time before last, when we got together to investigate at Woolerton, we were joined by people who were fascinated by this, by the subject. But one gentleman who joined us, he was from the area and he had had a very strange experience outside of Wollaton and he'd been driving, I think it was in the 1970s, him and his mate had been driving past the wall at Wollaton park. And had seen this, what they described as a space hopper bounce very, very high over the wall, into the middle of the road, and then with some amount of sentience, bounce into the hedgerow the other side. And I know that he's on Joe Hickey Hall's Fairy Encounters podcast, so it's definitely one to listen to. So if anybody doesn't know what a 1970s space hopper is, it's a, it's a large ball that looks a bit like a yoga ball, a fitness ball, but it had two handles that looked like antennae coming from the top of it. And you would bounce basically. Now, to try and recreate that, to bounce one of those over Wooliton ball, where he saw it, he just couldn't fathom how it had got over the wall, bounced into the road, and then bounced off again into the hedgerow. Another one, a friend of mine had been in the park with his children, a very bright sunny day, and he had seen an orb, a very large orb, probably about the size of two footballs stuffed together. And him and his children actually tracked the orb floating at about child's head height throughout the park, and they were able to follow it. But the phenomena of seeing fast moving lights within the trees is something I've personally experienced, and others have reported experiencing that. And it goes hand in hand with the hall being very famously haunted, the grounds being very famously haunted, and just the research into that is definitely ongoing to sort of start collating UFO sightings, other high strangeness, you know, and all kinds of different phenomena. But the more we dig into it, it seems quite central, as it is a lot of the time with these public accessed spaces, like country manors, country parks, especially in city areas.

Michelle: Again, it's something that I've often pondered, but, you know, places where there are a activity you often do see going hand in hand, other kinds of experiences, which does kind of beg the question then again of, are these things happening because one thing leads to another? Is it an escalation? Is it a fact that energy connects? There's something happening that kind of creates other experiences and other types of energies, because again, you see it quite often in cases like Poltergeist, cases where you have different types of experiences that wouldnt then fall into the category of poltergeist, but other things being reported simultaneously happening in these homes at that time. And again, its just this notion and this idea of energy possibly connecting and creating other types of energy, or allowing other things to come through. But it does seem to be that in spaces like this, where you have experiences you often then see hand in hand, other things as well. Other strange, high strangeness, other things being reported. You don't tend to see, typically, things in isolation, which, again, is just another fascinating aspect that for me personally, I'd love to see more research and more collation and more examination of, because it's a part of it that's rather intriguing for me.

Kate Ray: Yeah, I'm totally with you on that. It is fascinating. And there are several really strong theories. One of them is that energy attracts energy. So I go into haunted properties, and I quite often encounter fairies that are there. And they are there because of the energy of the spirit of the dad or the spirit of multiple dad people within that property. And they're attracted to that. It's quite complex when you get the two together as a theory. But it could be that the initial attraction was the spirits of the dead to the people or to the house, and then the fae follow. But the other thing that I've encountered, I was asked in series two of help. My house is haunted to do a remote viewing on a property that they were investigating. So for those who don't know, I'm part of Barry Guy's team, events team, and where we do residential investigation. And he knows that I have some abilities within remote viewing and psychic connection. And he literally sent me a photograph of the front door of the property that they were filming at that day, that evening. And I told him not to give me any more information. And I went. Sat down to do the meditation, to go into this psychic state, to remote view, and immediately came across a being that was rushing around so quickly that it didn't have any form. And when I got it to stop in front of me, this is obviously, in my mind's eye, doing it on a remote viewing level. I got it to stop in front of me. And it was this kind of spiky character. It was kind of giving off almost tree like, twiggy spikes from it. And it was jumping up and down. I can see it as clear as day. And it was ridiculous. It was jumping up and down and it was babbling on at me in a language that I couldn't understand. But it was obviously very, very angry. And as I calmed it down, it changed form and it looked more humanoid as it settled. And I said, you know, I want understand why you're mad. So they, the people in that property thought that they were being haunted, thought they had a poltergeist because they had collated evidence of things being thrown. They had been scratched, pinched, etcetera. Doors would bang very frequently, they would hear running around the property. But actually what they had was this very, very, and, excuse my language, pissed off pixie. And they had then gone on to tell. When I relayed this information, they went on to explain that they had cut down a tree in an orchard. And that's something that this pixie had shown me, that he was really mad because it was his favorite tree, and he'd showed me an orchard and he showed me them chopping it down, and he showed me how sad he was. And he was very vengeful in that he didn't understand why they'd done it. And what wasn't shown in the actual programme was that had occurred while they were living in France. And they'd moved from France to Devon and they'd done the same in Devon. They cut down another tree, which had kind of triggered him again. But the language that he was speaking to me was a thick French. It was thick french accent that I just couldn't even get an understanding of what he was saying. But in that property in Devon, there was also the spirits of the dead. Now, the interesting thing that he did relay to me was that he could see the dad, but they couldn't see him. And this is something, a theme that I've come across quite a lot in the complexities of the energies. I mean, the other aspect of this is moving that aside is somewhere like Wooliton park. We have been doing some research into the geology and the geography of Nottingham, and it's one of the most densely populated labyrinth cities in the UK. So it has an underground subterranean city under Nottingham, under the city centre, and spanning out. And Wollaton hall has its own element of that underneath the actual house. And we don't know whether. How far that went out, whether it went out from the park, etcetera. So the other aspect of it is, is a ground disturbance, something to do with it? Is it playing around with electromagnetics? Is that attracting energies in, or is it creating these almost fits of psychosis in people? When there's peaks and troughs of. Of EMF? It's just so wide open as having, you know, having ideas and theories about it. It's just. It's mind blowing. I love it. It takes me down hundred rabbit holes at once.

Michelle: Yeah, my brain is already spinning. But that's the beauty of these cases. You really do start going down, like you said, so many rabbit holes and theories and ideas. I mean, there's just so much that I think hasn't been done. There's so much that is still unknown and it's about remaining curious, it's about asking questions and this is a case that just is so rich with so many questions. It baffles me that more hasn't been done, to be honest, to research it. But I'm so glad it is being researched, if that makes sense.

Kate Ray: Yeah, yeah. And we love doing it. I mean, we do, we. We are all doing it out of the love of doing it. And like I say, I've been very blessed. Not only have we got a core group and myself, Neil Rushton, Joe Hickey hall, we've had Glenn Boddis, who's on board with us, has been on board with us on everyone. We've had the likes of Rob Wildwood, who writes about the fairies. He's also done magical Britain, which is a fantastical book. So we've had interactions with lots of different people and in the future we'll be having different people coming from different angles on this as well. So we've got a lady who's very, very interested, who's a medieval historian who wants to look deeper into the more ancient history of the land there, which is going to be absolutely fascinating and definitely a bonus to the research body that's gone on. But it's. It's a labor of love. I mean, none of us, we're all poor as church mice, let me tell you. But it's because we are all curious. We are all curious, curious people.

Michelle: So thinking about the children at the heart of this case, do we know anything about what happened to them after this experience?

Kate Ray: That has been one of the most difficult aspects of investigation and one which you would think would be the easiest aspect of what we were doing, you know, with birth, deaths and marriages as record, the fact that, you know, where. Where they grew up in Nottingham, people within Nottinghamshire, as a general rule, stay within. Within the county or don't sort of travel too far. So all the kids have gone off the radar and literally off the radar. Previous to us starting this bout of investigation. People like Dan Green, who's part of the fairy investigation Society, has also done a great deal of work. There are also others who have done a massive body of work and they have done things like, they have gone on local radio, they've put shoutouts in local papers, online, they have asked various different Facebook and social media platforms if anybody knows of them or any way we could, you know, track them down and we've put ourselves. Ourselves have put out those kind of messages and said, you know, it'd be completely anonymous. We personally want to talk to you. We personally want to get some answers, basically to help us with this. And we've got many reasons why we think that we've not been able to track them down, why there has been an element of the going to ground. And one of them is with a lot of these experiences where people have childhood experiences of the fairies, as they grow older, they want to disassociate massively from it. They don't want to be known as the gnome children. You know, you can imagine that's something being locally kept alive for quite a while. So growing up in the area, being a teenager, growing up into your twenties, like I say, these were very street savvy kids. I don't think they'd want of that to follow them. There is a peripheral issue in the fact that we are led to believe that there was criminality with at least two of the children and quite heavily and heavy serious criminality and associations with sort of a criminal element within the city. And that would very much be that people do not want to give away details about these people because they don't know what's going to happen from giving that information away. And if you're asking about people and saying, does anybody know this person? If you have a background that you want to keep low level within the community, they're not going to want their personal information being passed forward. So it has got a bit of a darker twang, I think, as we further investigate into where they've gone and how they've kind of just literally vanished into thin air as adult human beings.

Michelle: And, you know, I know that Simon Young, who we've mentioned a couple of times in the podcast, I know he's personally put out his email many times in various different places, and I think the door is always open if I suppose in the future one of them wants for them to do that, certain circumstances, things that are happening in your own life, you can understand why someone might want that distance. But it is the, for those really intrigued by the case, it's the frustration, isn't it? Because you want to be able to ask, because it is so unusual and so interesting. To be able to speak to them firsthand would be amazing.

Kate Ray: I mean, there was another researcher who had a sort of a friend of a friend tip off, who said that they knew one of the lads and he had told, said friend of a friend in a pub or whatever, that it never happened. It never occurred. But again, the thing is, I often say with this, even if we did get hold of all the children. And all of them said, no, it didn't happen. And this is why I, we sat about to spin this tale. For me, it doesn't take away the interest of the case, you know, because the next question would be, what would be the psychology of the kids to do that? Where did they pluck this notion of gnomes from? And how did they become so detailed and so collaborative in their efforts to make the world believe that they had had this gnome encounter? I do have a theory that if that happened, and people have asked me personally, do I believe it? I do to a certain extent. I'm more leaning these days to the fact that it was only one of the children that actually had an experience and had then desperately wanted the other children to understand their experience. And that's why they ended up in the park that night, because Angela, the eldest, wanted the others so desperately to believe her. We have documentation of her saying that she had encountered one gnome while she was on her own in Woolerton park in the daylight, in the summer holidays. And that is a bit of a game changer to did they all have an experience? Were they coerced into believing they had an experience? Was it false memory syndrome? Was it that they wanted to support their friend? You know, even if this case collapses in terms of it wasn't real, the interest is still there. There is so many other aspects to look at outside of whether it was real or not.

Michelle: I completely agree. I completely agree with you. And like we've kind of alluded to, I think there's so many next steps from this that are potentially there to explore things to try and investigate, to test out theories, to explore further research about the land. There's just so many things that could be done that people could do individually or collectively as part of that kind of investigative process, because it's just. I think it's one of those ones that I think has barely. The surface has been scraped, if that makes sense. And I don't know for you if there's any particular thing that you're really looking to do next that you're really intrigued and interested in as a next step. What would you like to see maybe as that next burning thing to look at?

Kate Ray: I mean, apart from having a serious amount of money to be able to get some electronic research in there? The next step for me is to take knowledge that I have from the paranormal world and take equipment and a team of paranormal experts with me into Woolleton park to be able to see if we can use some of those flashy gadgets to start adding to the body of research. But actually moving away from Woolerton park, we started on the last meeting to visit the caving system and to understand the subterranean nature of Nottingham and its people. And asking that question, has that got a psychological bearing on the fact that children saw gnomes, that these are creatures from the earth, whereas they could have quite easily have said that they saw elves? Or is that the connection that they were making, or is that how these beings showed themselves, because there is such a deep connection with the earth within the city? Moving on from that, there are lots of exciting developments, you know, looking at things like, particularly Nottinghamshire. I think Nottinghamshire and Bedfordshire are two of the most mythologically devoid counties within Britain, which is very interesting. And I know within Nottinghamshire, Robin Hood definitely has overshadowed anything else that may have come out of the area, but we are pretty poor within mythology. Beyond that. We're also pretty poor with things like burial sites, ancient spaces, etcetera. But that doesn't say that they're not there. Quite recently, there has been a henge unearthed not far, you know, within the county, and it's looking at things like, you know, there's a. There's an ancient stone just outside Woolleton park and looking to see if there is some kind of energetic connection between that as well. I think, for me, the use of the caving system in Nottingham, although historians quite often fight out what the uses were for these. These spaces, you know, there is theories that these spaces would have been used by druidic orders or more nefarious ritualistic purposes. And again, that's something to explore and, you know, it's hearsay, it's archaeological hearsay, but is that something we can explore more or these things, have these things been called up or conjured in some kind of magical sense? It's just everything excites me about it, I think, is what I'm trying to say every next move, you know, and certainly starting to look at very similar cases. And the alien aspect is definitely something on our radar where we want to look at. It's a question I get asked quite often, was it an alien abduction or was it. And they overlaid the gnomes, as we see in many alien abduction encounters. Did they overlay the image of the gnomes so not to frighten the Children? It's another curious aspect, it's another one.

Michelle: Of those rabbit holes to go down. So for anyone listening who maybe wants to find out more about this or see what's kind of happening next, are there any recommendations in terms of communities to look at books to maybe pick up and read. Where would you say are some good places maybe to start for people who have a real interest and want to follow this up?

Kate Ray: So we document edited videos of our quests out into Auditoron park as a group and that goes on Joe Hickey Hall's YouTube, which is I think it's remain curious and it's. Or it's modern fairy encounters, one of the two, I'll definitely find out for the link. So you can see us not always serious, we're not always serious when we're out and about in the field, which is quite nice, quite funny. So there's definitely that myself and Doctor Neil Rushton have a podcast, so we sometimes bring up the Woolerton names if there's something connected with it or something new that we can bring to the table in between other podcasts? So the original book that I was writing for, for Simon Young was the Wooliton names, a Nottingham fairy mystery, which includes some fantastic writers. I was incredibly honoured to be in amongst some amazing people, very, very intelligent, academic people as well in there. So that's looking at the case in a broader perspective. So at the start there's the. A documentation of what the children talk about and the basis of the encounter. And then each individual essay is very, very different and has a very different perspective on the aspect that people have looked at. So that definitely is a great starting point if it's the Wooliton gnomes that you are interested in looking into. However, there is now rafts on the Internet of good quality sort of podcasts and researchers talking about the case. So yeah, there's lots out there.

Michelle: And I would say the book that you just mentioned, the Woolleton Gnomes and Nottingham Fairy Mystery, I've actually got it right in front of me and I echo what you say. I mean, it's one of those books that I think it does allow you to see the case from so many different angles. I mean, you've got so many different kind of analyses and things that are kind of reported and recorded and written about from these different perspectives. I mean, it's a brilliant, brilliantly constructed, read, really in depth. And like you said, there are just so many places that you can now start to listen to people sharing their experiences, talking about historical cases like these and others, you know, in a way that wasn't happening 20 years ago, 30 years ago. There's so much more out there now. So, yeah, it's just a case of starting somewhere. If someone has an interest and wants to follow it up but it's certainly the Wollaton Gnome book that we were just talking about that Simon Young put together with so many different great authors is a good place to start again. I'll try and make sure that links to those are available in the podcast description notes and on the website, etcetera. Coming back to you, I mean, you mentioned your podcast. You didn't name it though. I will because it's a fabulous podcast. Do you want to just say to people where they could find your podcast how they can listen to the hare in the hawthorn? Where would they go to find out more about that? To be able to listen to your different episodes and the guests that you feature. Because it's a great podcast. It's phenomenal.

Kate Ray: Thank you. So yeah, it's hare in the Hawthorn. It's available on YouTube and it's also available on the Ghost Planet network, which is a free platform to stream all kinds of different podcasts. I am very, very blessed that the bulk of the podcast is the most phenomenal guests I have been so blessed in. Whoever I've asked, I've never been turned down. And I have had some people that I just thought there's never in a million years they're going to say yes to coming on and chatting. And there's times when I'm sitting back and people are talking and I actually forget that I'm meant to be doing a podcast because I am so immersed and invested and theories and just the amount of knowledge and research that people do absolutely blows me away.

Michelle: It's an incredible position to be able to be in, to talk to people so very passionate about what they do and informed and knowledgeable. Oftentimes doing it completely out of a sense of love. They're not gaining anything from it personally in terms of money, shall we say, it's a real labour of love, but by gosh, do they give it everything and you just find yourself being sucked right in with them. I mean, for me personally talking to you, I just want to kind of crawl into the laptop and we'll trundle off to Wooliton park right now and go and go and have a wander around because it is just, it's that kind of enjoyment that you get when you talk to someone. Just really does love what they're talking about. So yeah, I hope people come and find your podcast. And again, I'll make sure links to it are available in the podcast description notes and on the website so they can easily find you coming back to your book the Woolly snots, where's the best place that they can get their hands on a copy, would you say?

Kate Ray: Unfortunately, it's the big giant of the Amazon. So, yeah, unless you come across me personally on my little stall where I peddle my book, then it's available on Amazon. It's available in paperback and in hard copy. I was very adamant that when he went on there that I wanted a hardback book because it's something that I will buy hardback books if there's the option to do it, because I just. Something very, very real about hardback book.

Michelle: We get that real experience, don't you? The smell of it and the feel of it. Yeah, there's something magical. And you kind of mentioned at the beginning that the next book is coming when the names let. Let it come. Is there anything that you know that's coming that you want to share with people in terms of, you know, an upcoming guest that you're really excited to have come up or something that you're going off to do as part of your investigation? Something that, you know, like I said, is in the works that you think is particularly exciting.

Kate Ray: I'm going to be very vague about things, but the names have been knocking on the door for a second book, so they're definitely around and ready to have some adventures again, which is good because I haven't. I haven't felt since writing that book. I haven't felt for the last year that I really wanted to kind of engage. I had an idea of something that I wanted to do with him, but it wasn't coming to me, so it wasn't a natural process. So we're definitely getting to the stage where they're knocking on the door. I have been writing again for Simon Young. There's a forthcoming book. Really have to be vague about that. I'm not quite sure what the legalities are about me, about me talking about that either. So I'm sorry about that. Well, that's one to look out for. I am just finishing off some illustrations for another book. And there is another book that's a little more academic that's been in the pipeline, stuck in the pipeline for a couple of years now, which is. Yeah, back on track. So that's coming up. I think I'll be doing more work with Reverend Lionel Fanthorpe in the future. There is. Yeah, there's definitely irons in the fire for future work with Lionel. And I think there's lots of exciting things, but there always is. But that's the beauty of life.

Michelle: Been so incredible to talk to you. I mean, it's just been such a wonderful kind of chance to chat with you about this case because I love it. It's intriguing, it's fascinated me for years, as have other experiences. So it's been great to kind of talk about it with you and to find out more about you and the woolly snorts. Again, love it. So honestly, thank you so much for your time. And I'll make sure to put as many links as I can to the book, the podcast, other things of kind of maybe interest for those listening to kind of follow up on to find out more about you, be able to find you and your books, etcetera, a little bit easier. And yeah, hopefully, hopefully we'll have some people who maybe are new to this, discovering this whole other world that they can start dipping their toes into and kind of seeing more of what may be is there that they didn't think was there before. Who knows?

Kate Ray: That sounds good. It sounds good. And thank you so, so much for having me along to talk about it. And I would like to say officially, if you'd like an invite, you are more than welcome to come out with us on one of the investigations. It'd be lovely to have you on board on one of the outings.

Michelle: Oh my gosh, that would be incredible. Oh, already I'm like, oh yes, yes, that would be amazing. If I can. Yeah, that would be brilliant. Honestly. Thank you so much for your time, Kate. Like I said, it's been such a pleasure and I'll say goodbye to everybody listening. Bye everybody.

Michelle: Thank you for joining us on this journey into the unknown. If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, rate and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. You can follow us on social media for updates and more intriguing stories. Until next time, keep your eyes open and your mind curious.