Feb. 21, 2025

Poltergeists, Psychokinesis, and the MACRO-PK Project with Eric Dullin

In the words of physicist John Archibald Wheeler, “In any field, find the strange thing and explore it.” That’s exactly what my guest today is doing. A mechanical and electrical engineer by trade, Eric Dullin has spent his career exploring the frontiers of science, technology, and human potential. With a PhD in information processing, an MBA, and extensive experience as an entrepreneur and coach, he brings a unique analytical perspective to one of the most elusive and controversial topics in paranormal research—the study of macro-telekinesis. Now the Research Director at the LAPDC in France and a member of multiple parapsychological associations, Eric has dedicated his post-retirement years to systematically investigating the phenomenon of physical mediumship, poltergeists, and spontaneous psychokinetic events.

Today, we’ll be diving deep into his latest project, MACRO-PK, an ambitious international historical database and collaborative research initiative that aims to catalogue and analyse unexplained physical phenomena throughout history. What can these strange events tell us about the nature of reality? How can we apply scientific rigour to what is often dismissed as mere superstition? And what do poltergeists, mystical levitations, and PK agents have in common?

As Arthur Conan Doyle once wrote through his famous detective, Sherlock Holmes:“It is a capital error to theorise before having data. Insensibly, we begin to distort the facts to fit the theories, instead of adapting the theories to the facts.”

My Special Guest Is Eric Dullin

Eric Dullin is a mechanical and electrical engineer with a PhD in information processing, MBA, PNL and a certified coach. He was a software entrepreneur, coach and advisor to other software entrepreneurs as well as a Co-founder with his wife of an online training centre for children and teachers. He has been involved in experimentation with paranormal phenomena (clairvoyance, OBEs, telekinesis) and experience of a poltergeist phenomenon. Since his retirement he has been focused on the scientific study of paranormal phenomena, and more specifically on macro-telekinesis/Psychokinesis. He is the research director at the LAPDC in France (macro-telekinesis experiments) and member of parapsychological associations such as IMI in France, SPR, ASSAP in the UK, SSE and PA in the USA. He has published scientific articles and given conferences on the subject of poltergeist / macro-telekinesis. He has recently launched the macropk.org website, an international historical database on Poltergeist, physical mediumship/PK agent and mystical levitation phenomena, and a worldwide collaborative project on macro-telekinesis phenomena. https://www.macropk.org/

In this episode, you will be able to:

1. Discover how this database and research initiative is cataloguing poltergeist activity, physical mediumship, and unexplained macro-psychokinetic events.

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Transcript

Welcome to Haunted History Chronicles, the podcast where we unravel the mysteries of the past, one ghostly tale at a time.

I'm your host, Michelle, and I'm thrilled to be your guide on this Erie journey through the pages of history.

0:35

Picture this, a realm where the supernatural intertwines with the annals of time, where the echoes of the past reverberate through haunted corridors and forgotten landscapes.

That's the realm we invite you to explore with us.

Each episode will unearth stories, long buried secrets, dark folklore, tales of the macabre, and discuss parapsychology topics from ancient legends to more recent enigmas.

1:04

We're delving deep into locations and accounts all around the globe, with guests joining me along the way.

But this podcast is also about building a community of curious minds like you.

Join the podcast on social media, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram to share your own ghostly encounters, theories, and historical curiosities.

1:28

Feel free to share with friends and family.

The links are conveniently placed in the description for easy access.

So whether you're a history buff with a taste for the supernatural or a paranormal enthusiast with a thirst for knowledge, Haunted History Chronicles is your passport to the other side.

1:49

Get ready for a ride through the corridors of time where history and the supernatural converge.

Because every ghost has a story, and every story has a history.

And now let's introduce today's podcast or guest.

2:10

In this episode, we delve into the fascinating world of poltergeists and psychokinesis.

With a very.

Special guest Eric Dolan, a man whose expertise spans both science and the paranormal.

With a PhD in Information Processing, an MBA, and a career as a mechanical and electrical engineer, Eric has long been at the cutting edge of technology and software development.

2:40

But his real passion?

Exploring the mysteries of the paranormal.

From clairvoyance to out of body experiences, telekinesis, and even personal encounters with the poltergeist phenomena, Eric's unique journey has led him to dedicate his retirement to the scientific study of paranormal phenomena.

3:03

Eric is the Research Director at the LAPDC in France, a member of leading parapsychological associations across the globe, and a key figure in the field of macro telekinesis.

He's now launched an international historical database cataloguing poltergeist events, physical mediumship, and mystical levitation phenomena, a groundbreaking resource for both researchers and enthusiasts alike.

3:34

In this episode, we'll explore the story behind the website, a growing database of over 1300 cases, the largest of its kind, bringing clarity to the mysterious events surrounding poltergeists.

We'll discuss Eric's future goals for the website to be used as a global collaboration project and how his research is helping build a clearer picture of these paranormal phenomena.

4:02

Don't miss this deep dive into the world of poltergeist activity.

Stay tuned for a conversation that mergers, science and the supernatural.

Hi, Eric, thank you so much for.

4:21

Joining me this evening.

Hello Michelle, thank you very much to invite me.

I'm very happy to be there.

I saw on your historic that you you already work on many case of Portogeis with different kind of people about Enfield, the Cage, Hogdale and so forth.

4:42

So I'm very happy to be here.

Do you want to just start by introducing yourself and maybe giving a little bit of your background how you became interested in in studying poltergeist phenomena?

Oh yeah, OK at the start.

4:58

I am an engineer in mechanic and electricity engineering and I did a PhD in information processing and then MBA and I make a startup for entrepreneurship.

So I was in the software business in Europe and US and I make after Co consulting for entrepreneur and major in this area.

5:22

And I work for people to help them in research, development, marketing and finance.

And then I retire, retire since four or five years.

And if I come back to the start, I was a very fond of physics when I was a young adult teenager since I discovered those physics in my studies and then I discovered the part of my effect and I did some experiment with friend of my school and I was very attracted by certificate studio about this.

6:01

I read books and I discovered the proto gas phenomena as those are phenomena as limitation for some mistakes, what can I start traveling and so forth.

So I was really passionated and one day a friend came to me and during I was interested by the subjects he told me that some phenomena were happening in this one.

6:24

I was in the mountain in France and so we make good trips there.

So maybe I I could present in more detail is the case after all that.

So that was the start of my interest in in Poltergeist Femina.

6:41

So what motivated you to to compile this detailed phenomenology of of poltergeist events?

What led you to to go down that route?

In fact, I, so I leave this experience, this first experience in 1983 and I really was astonishing, but I was working.

7:06

So after that I, I'd say I would put that on the on the side.

And then ten years ago, when I come back to that, because I make a stage with which is a very known physical mediumship in in France was make some metal blending in laboratory condition in with.

7:32

And so I come back to this all this paranormal things and telekinesis particularly.

And I work with some informal teams in France about this.

And then I developed some scientific approach around putting certificate techniques and, and software in the, in the, in the box to, to be able to show that there is really a telekinesis effect.

7:59

And then I want, I wanted to see more bigger, to see if there is telekinesis.

Is there other part of the, of the fields, other fields where we can meet telekinesis?

And I found the, and I remember what happened for me in 1983.

8:19

So in fact, some people called this effect RSPT like spontaneous psychokinesis.

And so I say that maybe we have to, to work more on the historical case to really understand what, what's really happening in all this case.

8:37

The common things are other things.

And it's why I decided to, to work on this.

And I looked around and I didn't find any digital data about that.

The the main book was the book of Alan Bold and Tony Cornell which is UK people working in social for SPL society for physical research and they assemble 500K DS.

9:07

But it was only a book and when I tried to communicate with Angled and asked him if he has some digital file about it, he laugh about on his mail and say that at that time in 20/19/79 they just use computer with punch cards and the remaining of the studio was on paper.

9:29

So I decide finally to digitize, digitalize all these 500 cases.

And that was the start of the the opposite story.

We could discuss after how we did, but that was the cornerstone of the process.

9:45

So do you want to maybe go on from there and just maybe tell us more about the website itself that you've developed, you know how you have put this together to help users to search for poltergeist cases for mediums for PK agents or you know, researchers because.

10:05

It is a.

Real incredible body of cases of phenomena that you have put together to allow people to access and to be able to see, to see what's happening and to be able to make some of the connections as you can see.

10:24

So do you want to tell us more about the the process of how you've gone about developing the website?

Yeah.

So I start with the 500 cases and then I, I discussed with different people around the world and I, I discussed particularly with Massimo Bondi, which was an Italian and was already on on this part assembled more than 250 K's in Italian, many, many in Italy and with using the same parameters, which was used by Golan Connor to specify the case.

11:02

So it was very interesting.

So it's case it's so I could Add all this case.

And then I worked through 5050 more than 50 books and I don't know how many papers about SPAISPA people about perhaps the association to, to build all this case.

11:23

And finally, we arrive at the 1300 case, which is a, a, a big, a big move.

And for each, all this case, there is 93 parameters.

We define the phenomenology.

So for example, is there a fire ignition?

11:39

Is there a water puddle?

Is there a, is there a apparition, is there smell, etcetera.

So, so the idea is that for each case we have very detailed film energy.

And so the website is built.

11:55

So in order to to find, to give to the people the possibility to select what they want to see.

For example, they want to see only the case with Snell in Italy or in UK.

They can do that directly on the site and they are directly the list of the case with the detail, the source where they can find detailed information, very final summary and also a level of testimony and detail which gave an idea about the credibility we could have on the case and so forth.

12:28

So it was a part of the of the process.

But I think it's incredible what you've done because you know, like yourself, I found myself often trying to find this information and to be able to see cases alongside other cases.

12:45

And it's not an easy process to do or it certainly hasn't been an easy process to do when maybe there is specific phenomena that you are looking for and trying to find others where that has been experienced.

Here you've done all of that hard work in collating more than 1300 cases, whereby you can now search them for these key phenomena, you know, phenomena, experiences, or you can start to see how actually within these cases there are sometimes phenomena that has maybe been slightly overlooked, that has had less emphasis.

13:23

Because it's been.

Lower down in terms of the activity and the scale of it, but it's still there.

And so you start to see things that maybe you didn't necessarily recognize as part of these cases that often there is far more detail to them from the beginning through to the the end of of those cases.

13:42

And maybe when the reports have have stopped to really detail the entire process and what's been involved.

And so it's incredible to be able to just have somewhere where now all of these examples, which is a much bigger body, are there for ease of access, to really start to understand and see cases alongside other cases, both historical and more current.

14:07

Yeah, exactly.

And just to give an example, you, you I just saw that you, you you talk about with Steve Mirra about work there, which was a there was water, water puddle in it.

And you can just just check, you can just check the database and look all the case where there is some kind of water puddle or water checked or you know the chain of foods and you find 67 stays I think.

14:35

So you are able to look all this case by country or as you want and try to see if there is some connection or not and so on.

And also you can see that there is not one or two or three case.

We have 67 case.

So it's not really small topics.

14:52

Absolutely not.

So what kind of challenges did you face then in in verifying or categorising the cases that you that you did?

Yeah, the the first things to categorise is to is to define parameters.

15:09

So according to Angolan Tony Cornell, that was a good part the proposed 63 parameters, which was a very good start and we populate more with 9093 now.

15:25

But the key is it was very for this part is way to see we are, we are we're not really to to look to the fact.

My my global approach is to see first we we see the facts and we could discuss theory after.

So we want to have the facts.

15:42

And so the idea is that and and you mentioned that earlier that you can have a very strong case with big testimonial about and on the story of the case.

There is some parameters, but you could have a case which is less testimonial but yet some a small detail about the trajectory or the way it it comes that give any very interesting information.

16:10

For example, we we we talking about the water, water was fluids or water case.

But in some cases they specify that at first on the wall, there was some some circle appearing and then like a click and the jet of water come.

16:32

And so you find this in this case, but maybe in the bigger case in water, you don't have this information.

So once you think that the water case are something credible, it's interesting to look at case that maybe are less known, but have some detail.

16:51

Very interesting.

So it's why refusing the parameters we're able to to put that on all the most of the case.

Actually I think we have not more than 900 case with the detailed parameters.

And so it's very interesting because we really have the phenomenology of what what was happening.

17:12

So you mentioned briefly some of the the primary sources that you helped to use to rely on as part of the the documenting of the cases that you did.

Were there other primary sources that you used?

You know, how about how did you kind of use that research and contributions from from others elsewhere to help build this repository that you that you have that exists at the moment?

17:39

In fact, at first I make some interview with different, different countries and different, I am member of many association about perhaps ecologic.

So I'm in France, in in UK, in US and I connect with people in Italy and in Germany.

17:56

And so I ask what what was going on about this archive, about Portuguese in different country and how the UK's archive just input And in fact that now there is not so much approach.

18:12

The main many approach are psychological.

You know, it's for example, in CS they are looking for exceptional experiences and they are not very detailed about what physical elements are coming with it.

18:28

And so I, I just see that there was no, nothing really going on on this.

So that's why I decide to build the, the database.

And then I connect with people which have already developed something like in Italy, in Germany and try to see how we can populate the database with all this data.

18:49

But finally, the main point I I said was digitalizing the golden Cornell 500 case use Italian case.

I work with a French woman, Charlotte Demas we which we was working on the Stone Shores for some very specific case return and one and most of the other case are coming from books and article which was published in.

19:19

So for the Society for Secular Research or the American Society for Security Research or the Pub Security Association or the Institute of Petapsi in France and this or PF so a typical Research Foundation in the US.

19:35

So that's the main source of information I can I can have, but a big part of the information was really in books.

For example, I appropriates the site with 50K's coming from Australia thanks to the book of Cropper.

19:56

So that's right.

That's the way we we take all the case and then first we have to to look at the case and define the final energy and define the testimonial levels, detailed level and so forth to populate the case.

So who do you, who do you expect will make the use of this of this database?

20:16

Is it mainly for academic researchers or is it something you hope is going to be used and accessible for for the general audience?

Yeah, In fact there is, yes, there is 2, even 3 objective.

First objective is to it's kind of gift to the perhaps ecological community.

20:37

So to have an historical archive on which researcher in the field could have reliable data and next to the using extraction comparison statistics, looking for trends to this specific criminal etcetera.

And that's the part.

20:52

The second part is more global.

It's far as the micro peak is more global than than poltergeist.

And the objective is to have a source of first information and the topic of I would say telekinesis, micro telekinesis in global manner.

21:09

So the people can phone into database case media mistakes.

But we'll also find media and proof oriented information on the expression experimentation part.

So on the side, there is a a part for the for the protagonist, a part from mediums Mystics.

21:28

And there is a part of experimentation.

And on this part, which is not developed yet, there is is the menu.

We will, we will populate with detailed experimentation result on each topic and with, if possible, proof like image, video and so forth.

21:48

So that's a task we want to work with different partners because we know that some proof are in some archive, in some in some association and we like to, to try to be able to, to show them in this site.

22:03

So some people come in just have a look general audience about what is telekinesis and the last last target is more to socialize people of scientific people coming from I would say mainstream science.

22:25

So because at now all these phenomena are looked as myth or legend for many people.

And if you have a website constantly did the data, the historical data of many years and of different experiment with real proof and so forth.

22:44

I would say that normally it could be interested some scientific of mainstream like a physicist that come and maybe find hi, yeah, maybe we have to look a bit deeper in that topics instead of just rejected.

23:03

So that's the third, the third objective.

And you know, you've briefly touched upon the, the means and, and why you started categorising the poltergeist events into these different types of experiences, such as, you know, physical impacts, the interactions, the duration.

23:25

Why did you categorize them by these key elements?

You know what, what were the broad scope there and why, why those key elements?

Why were they so significant?

In fact, about the key elements, there is no some.

You know, I have 93 parameters and for the for the database, it's all the same level.

23:47

But in fact, if you look to the to where the history of all this and the theory, you know that there is some typical parameters like your is this PTA agent oriented?

24:02

So is there some protagonist agent, some people which are identify to be the trigger of the the event or is there more location centre events so it is linked to a place?

24:19

I'm not a, I'm not a person and these are two big parameters splitting the the case and and that's but in the the database it's they are the same level.

It's one of the 93 parameters.

24:37

But working on statistics and grouping, we could find details, some group which are emerging from all this data.

And that's why now that we have the 300 case, we could make a new statistics study, which was done only on the 500 case initial.

24:58

So do you maybe want to talk us through some of those trends that maybe you've identified, you know, things that you've noticed in terms of maybe common type of phenomena or the geographical distribution, which I find fascinating when I was looking at it?

Yeah, about geography, sure you have, I think you have 6060 country or presented in the in the database and it's only the poltergeist which had been reported.

25:26

So we we need to have been reported.

They need to have people who have follow the case and make your report and in the language we know.

So I, it's clear that in Asia we, we have some reports coming from India very often in English because coming from English at the at that time living in the in the India, we have some report on Africa, but main reports are for on America and Europe and Australia.

25:58

But we have not much report on the easier part.

We have some but not big one and Africa same.

So, but if we look this case, they are already scattered everywhere.

So there is no focus on the town or something like that.

26:16

We can see, we can see on the map that the the case are everywhere.

And So what is interesting is that if you think that this case where report some are reported 100 years ago, 100 years ago, there is no Internet.

26:32

People are not speaking about Portoias, nobody knows about this.

So people in the little country somewhere in in Poland are speaking the same thing that people in UK or in the US And that's the part of the proof of the reality of the phenomena.

26:51

So people not connected are Speaking of the same thing.

After if you look to the period of history you can see that you have the same fact but with different interpretation which which connect to the belief of the system at that time.

27:10

So at some time it was more so interpretation was more dead oriented to people coming back and wanted to have a death, a clear digging and some other people, some other period.

27:25

It was demons oriented.

So people think that it was all demons or elementals.

And then we we came to the agent for the the idea that there is a person which which is with triggering the scene.

27:41

And so it's a more recent period and we have more, more kids with that.

And so now we, we have I think in the same time agent oriented and this this Internet entity in some we can discuss that later.

27:59

And again, one of the things that I think is just really great about having this repository of all these cases, all there to be accessed is that you can come to the the cases, the data, and come with a very specific question in mind to try and see if you can find the evidence.

28:18

Now to search and find something that will either support or work against a theory that you have or a question that you have.

But what you have is the ability to begin to search, to extrapolate, to extrapolate the data as per a question that you have, as opposed to having a question, then having to spend an endless amount of of time trying to find various cases that maybe help to support that question or, or find that they don't.

28:48

Here they all are ready for you to be able to use to come out with that mindset of trying to compare, contrast, find similarities, look for differences to help formulate questions and answer questions that you may or may not have around poltergeist phenomena.

29:05

Yeah, exactly.

And also the idea is to announce the process and look to physical mediumship, physical mediumship phenomenology and see there is some big simulated between the two.

For example, there is case where you start by a poltergeist and you, you move on with really a physical mediumship.

29:29

So people making some experiment on one person.

And so if you make a real pository of orphan energy on mediumship and poltergeist, you have more information to work on on all this case and all this fact.

29:46

And I, I, I'm just not mentioned but about the mistakes because Mystics like levitation could be put in some phase in the, in the micropicket area.

And so if we work and there is some many facts about this which just really think people are thinking it's only belief system or not.

30:10

And we don't have to look like that.

So there is many report with many testimonial that people were irritated and and and very often.

And so it's not one kid and it's not 11 withness in time, it's 20 witness.

So you you can just take the case and and put on the trash.

30:28

You have to take into account if you want to make a theory.

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30:49

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34:02

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So.

34:19

As you were going through.

This this process of collating the cases that you did and being able to put these into the the database as you have done.

What was the the process of of going through those cases like in terms of, you know, maybe addressing issues such as fraud or testimonial reliability?

34:43

How did you kind of weigh up those difficulties whilst wading through the the cases themselves?

Yeah.

So that's a very important point because always you say, yeah, you have data, but how do you control the data?

And it's also a problem when you want to grow it.

35:00

So about the fraud, I think a good, a good news about the database is that if you look to the percentage of fraud detection we have in the of course in the in each case we have some case where there is fraud detection and we have around 10%.

35:19

But what what is interesting that if we move from the five century ago until now, the testimonial reliability has really grown, grown with the investigation.

But the fraud, the percentage of fraud on the on the system are the same.

35:38

So that's a good thing that even if we make a more detailed analysis, we don't have more fraud than before.

So that's good about the fact that nobody we have 10% of fraud detection.

And you, we have to to say that very often when you have fraud, it's often a teenager, which was a protagonist agent and he had many attention to him because of the effect.

36:08

And as the effect was not reproducing, he tried to to imitate the phenomena to keep the attention on him.

So very often when you have fraud, some food are in fact a mix of fraud and real effect.

And so people around state investigate this case have to be careful about that.

36:28

And many people now know that and try to to go behind the the curtain.

So about the detection, so about testimony, the the key point is to have case where there is multiple testimony and better if you have testimony outside first groups or the families or the restaurant or so forth.

36:52

And IPD we have 35% of our case which have benefit of a full investigations and now based on a report by an outside observer, most of it with a paper in a in a in a or an article in the association like SPR, for example.

37:12

And if you look to, for example, a world we have children, which is an American specialized in protagonist.

He reports that on the one about 16 kids he has worked on, he had evaluates 105 involved witnesses outside the family.

37:31

So the initial group and bit inside this 105, there was 75 people who were professional training.

So they just ask policeman or doctors or scientists or psychologists, PRG teachers.

37:46

So people who know a bit about how evaluate situation and are not only named to their emotion.

So I think it's a it's a very good point for the the reliability of the database.

So do you want to maybe share an example of of one particular case that you include as part of the database that maybe illustrates the diversity of poltergeist phenomena?

38:15

Yeah.

Maybe I will talk more about two because I think that we it shows a very difficult topic today between the approach to say that it's people oriented.

38:31

So it's and put our gas agent with triggering the systems and on the other side people who are looking about disincarnate entity or best people.

And I think there is a 22 case I would mention which are interesting about that.

38:52

The first one is a is a case which is reported not far from from now it's in Poland.

It's a it's a book which was written I think this year, last year so-called it's called it's Josiah Gielski, a 13 year old teenager and things happening like Puerto gestures object flying some very slowly.

39:22

For example, a cup rose from the kitchen go to the to the bedroom.

So when she says the trajectory for example, move at 90° and then come and and then continue and then they go to the parlor and then they need the fog.

39:39

And during this that time the the tea is is leaking outside the truck.

So it's very slowly.

The adjunct was as deep temperature, for example, 41°C.

There was thermal spot on her body.

So there was something which was close to her body, it was able to to break some glass pan of the control panel of an ETG.

40:04

There was metal bending discharge of battery and there is some bigger high voltage discharge rotating Hampshire and and but was but was really interesting in this case, which is a recent case because it's they think it was 1980 or something like that.

40:25

In fact, the.

Events happened as when the adjunct was sleeping that he was awake and for example, there was a connection with a dream.

There is a big health hair dryer moving, moving the in the in the room, finding the room.

40:48

And in fact, she was she was sleeping and the psychologist make interrogation to her and she was said she says that she was dreaming that she was was going in the hairdresser and he he did the bad things about hair.

41:08

It's it's hair, hair dressing.

And so she was very upset.

And so the same time we see that the hair dryer was footing inside the room.

So I think it's a interesting case because it's the first time I think that there is really a connection between the dream and some event in the in a physical event.

41:29

So that was this case.

So this case is really typical.

And and this this girl was studied during more than one years with other people and with many, many events and physical phenomenon.

41:44

And this is really of what you say protagonist agent.

And if you look to another side, for example, you can look to the case of Banta Inn in 1978.

42:02

This case is a report by Lloyd Auerbach in the US.

And here's it's more about bar, restaurant and the owner.

Tony died behind the bar of a heart attack.

42:18

And within a week of his death, people have seen him playing alone as the poker as as before he died because he was very used to play poker alone with trends and a bottle of beer.

He was known to to look to the to the cashier and and work on the on the coins.

42:39

So he started wearing and he was always putting the coins in a stacked in a nice nitrous.

And so the people see that after he was there, he was dead in the bar and several witness and after this bar was saying so it happens very often.

43:00

And so people come to this bar and and now this experience, but many of the people which are working in it.

And in 1980, I think that bar was bought by another people.

So Baron and John which is husband and John was connected to Tony when she was in a was young.

43:23

But Dave was very sceptic about her husband was very sceptic about all these things.

And there is some investigation with Lloyd Orrbach himself, which make who makes many investigation with TV crew.

43:42

And they witnessed some events like for example, Lash Astraki, which directly behind the cameraman popped up several feet in the air, flipped over and slapped back down on the on the bar without breaking.

And also a glass of orange juice which which slid across the bar under its own power and so shamelessly it was not on the camera.

44:08

And sometimes the door was locked itself.

So, for example, bad people was put outside the bar and they want to come back and the the door locks by himself by itself.

And finally there is some new employee, Linda, who walk in the bar and see apparition in the in the mirror of a man which who smiled and waved.

44:38

And it was three times in three times in a row.

And so the next day she spoke to his manager and said that she was a I know I'm afraid about this.

And Dave, which was made sceptical, bring with him a book, a photo.

44:56

So he's take many different photo in the book.

And somewhere on there with Tony's photos, the old owner and the so girl directly was able to identify that it was the photo of Tony.

45:14

So it's impressed really, Dave.

And so he was he was impressed.

And next week he was in the kitchen looking for the guys and little spoon rolls from the ring's back and just always on the idea at at this front and then move horizontally to the wall and crash on the on the wall.

45:39

So it's OK, come back to his wife and say, I believe you now.

So, and there is some other topics like the service bell which was mechanic and was working and another big, big point.

45:55

The last part is about the jukebox.

So Tony was a very fan of of some typical group.

I don't remember exactly the the name of the group, but regularly the jukebox was playing, you know, with the songs of this of this group.

46:19

And once our back, you know, Chloe, our back were there.

You come back and at the end the jukebox play music after there is some events of typical Portuguese events.

46:37

He was coming with obsisic name Mrs. Jibo and Chapan Spisic, which was able to fight the presence of Tony and and it satisfied the photo and another female presence.

46:54

But then and there is also some swinging lamp.

But at the end of the day, the the jukebox play music on the which was the name was the spirit in the material world by the police and the jukebox was not plugged.

47:16

So that was completely impressive.

So just to say that there is some very interesting case and if I trance to connect to other things in in UK, I think there is which was known as the King sailors in 1960 report by Colin Wilson and in his book protagonist where also there is some different managers and they all quit because of all this this phenomena.

47:47

And so there was a vibrating for the kit not not strictly because of the phenomena, but they have to quit for different reason, but the different manager see the same thing.

So like vibrating glaciers on the bar water coming out of twilight cash register out of orders, the route of cold dorms, clattering noise, spontaneous fire, wine bottle tipping over in the air to break on the wall apparitions of all these kinds.

48:18

And it was in kingside house in in the UK.

And so it was reported.

So you see, there is really two we have we have in front of us very two different case, case where you you can't say it's a proto gas agent and you, you are you are pushed to to ask if it's these people or not.

48:41

And those are case which critique link to the people.

And you can say yes, basically it's a people with telekinesis where they are subconscious, they are influencing the system and so forth.

So it's why I wanted to present these two case.

So based on, you know, your findings and your research and the the work that you've done, do you think there's any new hypotheses or psycho, you know, physic physical models that are emerging that you think are particularly interesting that maybe help to explain or are gaining traction in terms of of theories around poltergeist activity?

49:19

I would say that we are most on the end of the hegemony of the poltergeist agent.

I think there is some good, good theory like if you know the German theory about Walter from Locadu, which tried to explain all this, this phenomena by a metaphor with the quantum mechanics as they talk about macroscopic entanglement.

49:48

To say that there is some issue close to we are close to sychronicity of sychronicity of young and poorly and also making some sychronization between the physics of people and the material world.

And this approach to say that this connection has to be elusive.

50:09

So we don't, we are not able to to pilot it, to manage it.

So it happens like this and you don't, you don't.

So it's, if you look to the case, many case, yeah, something's happening and you are not controlling it.

50:27

And so it's why they they push this theory and which was connected to the idea that we are connected to a specific protaggis agent or protagonist group.

Sometime it's family because it's a, you know, there is some frustration or some difficulty in relationship and there is some problems.

50:46

And when you solve the relationships problems, the protaggis disappear.

And so for example, IGPP in in Germany and and there's a copy in France.

You're saying in in France say work on this with people and help them to to move forward after poltergeist scenario.

51:07

So it works.

So we could say that here surely there is some part of the things which are linked to people.

But as I mentioned and I show the story earlier, there is some other case like the Banahim and the you, you, you don't see that it's different.

51:26

So maybe you have different things happening.

It's not all the same.

So people, some people say there is a rules, you have linear rules and you start with some hauntings.

So people will have subjective apparition, subjective auditory, blah, blah, blah.

51:44

And then if this thing is stronger, there is some physical events coming etcetera.

And I think that when I'd finished my statistics on the 300 cases, I could show that maybe it's not exactly that.

So yeah, so if you make the connection and between the duration of the case and what's the phenomenon happening during the case, you see that maybe operation are not always at the beginning.

52:11

So you what my, my answer is, is a pro answer for you, I'm sure, because I don't have a solution to provide to you.

But it's why I make all these data.

You know, I want to make the data from the poltergeist, the physical manum ships and then experimentation.

52:29

And then when we have all these data, maybe you have more information to build some kind of theory.

And, and this is what I was going to go on to say, you know, I think This is why the, the database is so incredible, because I do think it, it allows people to come to this phenomena with the ability to look at this large global repository of cases and begin to understand the phenomena a little bit more deeply.

52:59

Because you can integrate, interrogate so many cases, you can look at, look at them and explore them.

And it fosters this sense of collaboration or communication around them that enables you to look at patterns and trends and things that maybe haven't been picked up on before.

53:17

But here you can physically search for things in a really quick and simple manner.

But again, just I think will contribute to our understanding of poltergeist cases and other, you know, experiences, other types of phenomena in a much deeper way.

53:33

Because a lot of that hard work of just data statistics is there.

It's at someone's easy access and easy disposal.

Exactly.

And also in the next steps for the site, we will directly put some statistics feature on it.

53:52

So people will be able to directly draw a statistic for example saying that I want to see from these periods which phenomena and how we draw of decrease along the time.

And so normally the people at that, when we finish that will be able to do that and some other people will be able to extract some data to make their own work on it.

54:18

Yeah, very much fosters that sense of collaboration and growth again, which I just think is incredible.

And there's there's nothing else quite like it.

I think in that sense of the, the scope of which it, you know, it could develop with people interacting with it even more and more and more to again, add in those elements of, of videos or evidence that they have just allows that communication around it.

54:44

I mean, it's a great opportunity.

It's fantastic.

And the the, the beginnings of this, you know, what you've already done is so incredible as it is, but I can already see just how far it could go with with other people coming in and, you know, adding to it in the way that you hope as that next step.

55:02

Sure.

Yeah, service is big work to do and big work to cooperate.

I think I put that on the on the on the net it's really to first steps.

So to work before the people.

So the difficulty after is how we can work and populate without keeping the the quality of the systems.

55:25

So we have to be very careful about it.

So it's why we I developed the website is developing fact in it's multi language on the front end, but it's also multilingual in the back end.

So we can work with other associations.

55:42

For example, we would maybe dedicate one person to work on case.

And so we try and change the guys to to work on the database.

And so we are able maybe to to work with different people in different place so they can them self populate the base.

56:02

But we are not fair.

We are not here there now.

So are there any particular areas within, you know, the phenomenology of poltergeist that you feel need more exploration, need more data?

Currently I think that with the 300 case, there is some more, I think there is 10 or 15 case or maybe a little more which need to be specified with the phenology.

56:31

So they have not suffered energy yet and I think we have a good start to really work on Protagon issues that I think that there's a point about Protaga's database is to make the synchronisation between the researcher base and the Protagais.

56:46

So there is some, but there is many things to do.

For example, if you look to to we NGO you, you have to find some different Protagais on which he has he was investigator and that's not full is the database gives this possibility, but it's not popular yet on that.

57:09

So that is the main, main thing about the Portuguese.

But I think on this part it's, it's OK after it's more about physical medium ships and Mystic database.

We have a big work to to develop it, to complete it, even if we have already many, many people.

57:24

But I think it's and this is typically also a collaborating world because of people who have work on medium ships and mistakes because people are some people are make big work also on mistakes.

And then afterwards, yeah, it's to collect proof media to develop the experimentation part of the site.

57:44

So it's working with different association to to really have the information put in the site so people can directly use it.

And their steps is to work on the theory and make new proposal.

58:01

Absolutely.

But honestly, it's such an incredible body of work.

I just really, really recommend if anyone has an interest in poltergeist phenomena on its own or just the wider questions around parapsychology, here is a database of which that you can access so many cases really easily where you are able to search for things, look for connections, look at geography, look at individuals, look at time frame, look at very specific types of phenomena.

58:34

You are able to look and find things so much more easily.

It's so accessible and it's just an incredible body of work that I think could help so many people in so many different ways, whether they're, they are an investigator, a researcher, just someone with, you know, an interest in this area.

58:56

I think it's sparks conversation.

It's Sparks, you know, wanting to look further, to explore further.

And so I think, you know, it's, it's one I really do highly recommend people take a look.

And of course, I will make sure to link into the, the podcast description notes as well as the website for the podcast itself, links to the website, links to what you've done so that people can go away and have a look at this as it is right now and see exactly why I'm speaking so positively about it because it is incredible.

59:32

I started looking at it and I completely lost track of time.

I, I found cases I had never heard of before.

I found cases that I know really well that just allowed me to see all the testimonial in one place.

59:48

I wasn't having to go through several different things to, to get that information.

It was just there.

And yeah, I, I found myself there for hours and then was coming back to it night after night as part of things that I was looking at and thinking about and questions that I had.

1:00:08

And it just, it was just incredible the ease that it allowed me to do that.

I it was just.

It just took out so much of the the problems when it comes to finding cases to be able to see them side by side.

1:00:25

It was just brilliant.

It's absolutely incredible what you've done.

So yeah, I hope people can hear the the passion that I have for it just from how I've used it so far to see how maybe it could, could support what they're doing and the interest that they have within research or investigating or any other aspect that they come at this from.

1:00:46

Thank you very much Michelle for this nice feedback.

Really touched me because it's a big work and when I heard that people are loving to hear to use it.

It's always a great pleasure.

Honestly, thank you so much for your for your time this evening to come in, share more about it and I'll say goodbye to everybody listening.

1:01:09

Bye everybody.

Thank you for joining us on this journey into the unknown.

If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, rate, and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform.

1:01:27

You can follow us on social media for updates and more intriguing stories.

Until next time, keep your eyes open and your mind curious.

Eric Dullin

Macro-PK researcher

Eric Dullin is a mechanical and electrical engineer with a PhD in information processing, MBA, PNL and a certified coach.
He was a software entrepreneur, coach and advisor to other software entrepreneurs as well as a Co-founder with his wife of an online training centre for children and teachers.
He has been involved in experimentation with paranormal phenomena (clairvoyance, OBEs, telekinesis) and experience of a poltergeist phenomenon.
Since his retirement he has been focused on the scientific study of paranormal phenomena, and more specifically on macro-telekinesis/Psychokinesis.
He is the research director at the LAPDC in France (macro-telekinesis experiments) and member of parapsychological associations such as IMI in France, SPR, ASSAP in the UK, SSE and PA in the USA.
He has published scientific articles and given conferences on the subject of poltergeist / macro-telekinesis.
He has recently launched the macropk.org website, an international historical database on Poltergeist, physical mediumship/PK agent and mystical levitation phenomena, and a worldwide collaborative project on macro-telekinesis phenomena.