Preserving The History Of The Coaching Inn with Kevin Charity

Speaker A: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to Haunted.

Speaker B: History Chronicles, where today I'm joined by Kevin Charity, the CEO of the Coaching In Group here in the United Kingdom. Since 1996, they have built a family of beautiful and historic inns across some.

Speaker A: Of the UK's best market towns and.

Speaker B: Villages spread across England and Wales, breathing.

Speaker A: Life back into these historic and iconic.

Speaker B: Buildings for successive generations to enjoy. These locations are full of varied and rich history, charm and character dating back centuries. These are locations where kings such as.

Speaker A: Charles I has sought shelter after battle.

Speaker B: As in the case of the Whiteheart Royal Hotel in the Cotswolds, not too far from me. It's here his unpaid bill is commemorated on a plaque in the entrance hall. In other locations, such as the Golden Fleece in North Yorkshire, you can view the original Georgian coaching clock still hanging, or in the Talbot Hotel in Northamptonshire, where you can appreciate the timber staircase that overlooks the inner courtyard. The stone and staircase in this case believed to be from following a castle. And the very same staircase that Mary, Queen of Scots, descended on her way to execution at the castle on the 8 February 1587. From the Georgian period to the Victorian, these inns and hotels are celebrated, restored and loved, their history and heritage preserved, each unique and with a nod to that location, and in some cases, like the Jamaica Inn, which is also part of their portfolio, a place where its history and hauntings has continued to be explored. I'm really appreciative of getting the chance to chat with Kevin, an incredibly busy.

Speaker A: Man who really does love each location.

Speaker B: And who I managed to chat with about what they do and are about. I hope this inspires you to visit some of these historic locations, explore the material produced and available, and treasure your own history on your doorstep, because the.

Speaker A: Local pub is definitely something in all our memories.

Speaker B: So let's get started and introduce Kevin and find out a little bit more.

Speaker A: About him and the Coaching In Group. Hi, Kevin. Thank you so much for joining me this evening.

Speaker C: Thank you for the invite.

Speaker A: Would you like to start by just telling us a little bit about your background, who you are?

Speaker C: Yeah, surely. My name is Kevin Charity, and I'm the CEO of a company called the Coaching in Group. We're based in Boston and Lincolnshire, and for the last sort of 25 years, we've concentrated on buying historic coaching inns in market towns, taking them on board often shut them down for a short period whilst we refurbish them and then reopening them. Relaunching them and celebrating their history and welcoming, obviously, guests from away and locals.

Speaker A: So, in terms of the Coaching in.

Speaker B: Group, how many inns, how many hotels.

Speaker A: Do you kind of have now as your portfolio?

Speaker C: Yeah, at the moment, 32. So we've had quite a busy year this last sort of twelve months, where we've had quite a few new additions but it's been sort of steadily growing over quite a few years, up to 32 now, across the whole of the country, actually. A lot of counties, right down into Cornwall and right up into Richmond, North Yorkshire and across the Wales and across into Norfolk.

Speaker A: That's incredible. So why would you say the coaching inn is so important? These historic buildings, these pubs, these inns, these hotels, why are they so valuable to our villages and our towns and our high streets?

Speaker C: They are the single most important community asset to a town. I believe they're the heart of the community. Whenever we buy one and we speak to locals, the local folk, there's so many stories about some relation, an auntie or a mother or a grandma being married at one of these venues, or christened or having some celebration. They do sort of belong to the heart of the community. And even when they fall into a little bit disrepair, they're often seen still as very fondly. People actually still like them, people are still loyal to them, they just wish sometimes they're probably a little bit better looked after. But that's where we step in and we try our hardest to be part of that community and we'll always listen and help wherever we can if requests come forward.

Speaker A: This is something that I think is a real tragedy when it comes to the local pub, the local inn, that often they don't get the kind of support that larger venues do. Same kind of history, same kind of heritage, but they're not receiving funds from lottery grants and so on and so forth. And they can be quite difficult to maintain, especially in circumstances like we've had with COVID and the Pandemic where hospitality trade really has taken a knock.

Speaker C: Yeah, no, very much so. The industry is very difficult anyway. It's obviously very long hours and sociable hours. And actually, I think the link to alcohol licenses seems to taint it a little bit, which is a shame, because they still provide fantastic community assets. So therefore we don't really attract the grants and the support that maybe other businesses and other organizations do, saying that there's still a lot of strong establishments out there doing very well and trading well, but naturally, these things go in cycles. Coaching particularly interestingly. They range anywhere really, from three to 500 years of age and they've been through many cycles, probably not many pandemics, to be fair, but many cycles of ups and down. And I always think we're just a keeper for a short period. I'm hoping for at least one generation, maybe two, but we're just that sort of keeper for that short period. So whilst we're in tenure and owning these venues, we need to care and look after them out in the general sort of marketplace. It is tough and a lot of the smaller venues will naturally start to struggle. They sometimes just simply fall out of vogue as well. It's very hard to keep abreast of what really the public actually wants and to see some of the latest trends. But there is certain desires, whether it's changes in diet or changes in drinking habits or changing in social circumstances. For instance, social media has taken more guests off the high street and marketplace, so therefore it will always be a struggle. But there are some winning venues and winning businesses and we just got to keep celebrating those.

Speaker A: And I love that you keep adding to your portfolio these wonderful locations like.

Speaker B: As you mentioned, they have such a.

Speaker A: Range of history, of experiences, of shared moments that have taken place within each of those properties individually. And their history is so varied and rich and interesting and dates back centuries. And so the fact that you're giving these locations some love, some attention, and trying to keep them at the heart.

Speaker B: Of the community, I think speaks to.

Speaker A: My heart because it means they're going to continue to be busy, have people through their doors, and are going to be enjoyed for further hundreds of years, hopefully. And that's what kind of I think we should all be trying to do with the types of properties and locations we have on our doorsteps and in our local backyards. Keep them going.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's a very cordy phrase. If you don't use it, you lose it. And therefore, these venues do need visiting. It's strange how they've got so much in common. They've all offer food and beverage. They average around 30 bedrooms, often have the old historic coach arch where the coaches and horses used to drive through to the rear of these properties where the stables and horses were kept. But at the same time, every single one is individual. And that's what I love about them, really, the fact that when we get involved in one, we start to research it, to start to speak to locals. We're very lucky. We engage the services of a gentleman called Will Swales, who's a retired PR man, but in his hobby, he's an amateur historian. And Will has very successfully written, so far, 18 booklets on the history of each venue. Will's very pedantic. He'll never write anything that's fable and rumored. He insists on the facts. But that's brilliant because sometimes we unearth some fantastic discoveries on what the history and what's happened in the past. And of course, many past kings and queens have visited amongst other dignitaries. And it's fascinating. Every history is different. And that's what I love about these buildings.

Speaker A: And I have to say I really commend the effort that's gone into that kind of project because they're all up on your website to view. And each of these booklets that you mentioned are not short booklets. We're talking 20 plus pages of documented history images really going into the background of each property. And you can really see the attention that's gone into them. These are very different and very much speak to the property as an individual location, as an individual in really speaking to its own history. And that takes a lot of work in preserving that and documenting that so that people can really enjoy dipping their toe into finding out more about those locations.

Speaker C: Absolutely. Before anybody comes and visit us, if they just go on the internet and go on our websites, they can download these booklets free of charge. We would never charge for it. Put them together and write them. Will obviously, is an amateur at it, but at the same time he still asks for a fee. And it's not the cheapest in the world, but I absolutely don't begrudge a penny of it. I think he totally deserves it. The effort and the workload that goes into the research is incredible. He does absolutely fantastic job. And it's the sort of item that most business operators just didn't say, we don't need this. It's quite a dent in the profits when we first produce them. And naturally we have to constantly pay for any imagery and renew those licenses constantly. It's a bit of work involved, but I don't mind it at all. I think it really celebrates each venue. The booklets themselves, they cost about three pounds to produce. It might not sound a lot, but start putting that into the thousands, they soon start to add up. But once again, let's celebrate what we've got in these venues and as many people know about the history as possible, what is fascinating, often when we arrive somewhere, we find that there is some history that's been documented or written down and has become very associated with the coaching. In particular for Will to discover that often it never happened. One of those examples is at Bakewell, where Jane Austen was supposedly sat in a window writing one of her novels and very clear that it never happened. And in fact, he was able to prove the person who actually first ever started the rumour and why. So it's fascinating, really fascinating, but totally we dedicate to doing these and whatever cost. We just think it's part of our journey whilst we own these venues.

Speaker A: What's fascinating about innzo is that over time you can really see how the kind of the history of the village, that kind of gossip, that word of mouth, often builds up these stories around the locations that when you start to examine them, you realize, as you just mentioned, aren't always true. But the flip side is also true also that sometimes when you're doing research, you uncover something that really isn't very well known at all. Because these aren't locations that tend to have a lot of people looking at.

Speaker B: The history and really dating hundreds of.

Speaker A: Years of history and examining all the different changes and variations and things that have happened because they just don't have that same kind of prominence. Often, like some manor houses or Tudor buildings or all the other kinds of properties that we have across the country. So it's fabulous, absolutely fabulous that you're doing that and getting someone to do that for each of their locations.

Speaker C: Yeah, when I think back, it just made because as a nation, we celebrate our historic buildings and historic homes and special buildings. These coachings are just as worthy. But of course, you're right. They sit on the marketplace almost taken for granted. People walk past them every day and never really look at them and think of where they've been and what they've done in the past, as well as the history of visitors and some of the stories that come through. The history of the building itself is fascinating. The tolbert andel has some graffiti from 1755 etched into one of the windows. And it's on a gallery area where without doubt, the stable boys would have slept and ready for the feeding the horses the next day. And whilst the coaches go but one of them simply says, my pretty poly of cork in Ireland, no lady could stitch so well. 1755, it just fascinates me. And that's just one of many on the windows and it's incredible. And the handwriting, considering it's edged on a window, is just amazing. It's beautiful. But so often you're looking at something time and time again and you realize actually it's maybe a horse stone. It's a stone that was there to actually help climb onto a horse. And often in one of the venues we saw these round beams and didn't think much of them. And we noticed some roses carved on them. And then we finally discovered that they would have been ships mass when the ships were disposed of and the parts were ships are broken down to be reused again. So those ships masks this mast. It's now a beam is probably a foot and a half across wide and it's perfectly round with these beautiful carvings on it and just come across that every day. And it fascinates me, really, that these things, we walk past them every day and don't realize the significance. So we want to celebrate them if we can.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And I imagine that part of what you also have to do to help maintain these buildings and that the history that they have is really put a lot of work into the upkeep of the properties themselves. Like you said, sometimes, maybe when you're taking them over, sadly, they may have not had quite some of the attention that you would hope. And so I imagine there's a lot of work that goes into that aspect of maintaining them, too.

Speaker C: It is, I mean, it's an ongoing daily job and it's not cheap. These buildings do need looking after, constantly maintaining and say often some are left into significant states of disrepair. It's the bit I really enjoy. It's the bit I really like to get my teeth stuck into and see if I can improve them. I do believe buildings should grow and change, and quite often I come across some historians who believe something should almost be preserved as if it was in ice and never changed. And the listing often prevents change. Now, I understand we should definitely try and preserve the historic value of these buildings, but we also need to let them grow. And if they don't, they'll fade away totally. We rescued once a number of years ago, which was about to be closed down and most likely turned into shops and flats, when in fact it became planning permission for that. And it was just going to have the insides totally taken away and it would have gone forever. When we came in, we proposed some changes so we could trade it. We're in 2022 now. The trading facilities are different now to what they were only 20 years ago. And this particular building, to take food into the main bar area, you had to walk outside and I didn't think that was acceptable any longer. It's a bit like in the toilets were mostly located outside and laws were changed to bring toilets internally. So those changes need to happen. They do need to happen. We have to be sympathetic, of course, all the time, but we need to let these buildings grow and change, because we all do. As people, we change. If we look back at photographs from ourselves from 30, 40, 50 years ago, we're not the same. And therefore we should just try and let these buildings grow old gracefully and help them a little bit along the way. That's what I'm saying. But it's the care. If you care constantly for them with the upkeep, they will go off, hopefully for another three to 500 years.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And again, that's just the bit that I think so many of us would really like to see continuing for these wonderful locations that sit on our doorsteps, that sadly, as you drive through many different places, you see them shut down, you see them closed, and that's such a sad shame and a loss. And like you mentioned before, if you don't use it, then you lose it. And it's only often then that people retrospectively have that feeling of loss when it's no longer there, because it often takes them for granted.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And it's a fight sometimes with TripAdvisor, for instance, people have the right to give their opinion, I totally agree to that. But sometimes I think it's completely unbalanced. And sometimes we've seen, unfortunately, some almost not with ourselves. Actually, we've managed to escape this most of the time, but I've seen other venues suffer from hate campaigns and it fundamentally drives that business to closure, and that's not the right thing to do. We should be supporting them. It's interesting because the Pandemic, although brought significant changes to us, and I must admit, I sat there quite often thinking, hope we don't have some tragedy where maybe we have a fire at one of our venues that shuts it and ultimately affects the whole business. And that was always my worry. Then suddenly, of course, as we all know, in March we were suddenly told we've got to close everything and it came as a shock and it was quite interesting to see what that did to us over a two year period. I, like think we came out stronger and better and I think the biggest benefit is last year in particular, the British brought staycation back to a really important part of their life. Instead of going abroad all the time, they suddenly discovered Britain. And we've got some beautiful coaching and some lovely locations, historic towns and places of natural beauty, and we were busy from that, without doubt. Never enough to make up for what our losses were. But it's irrelevant. We're just enjoying watching people use these venues again. And to be fair, that's continued into this year and I'm hoping that'll carry on for quite a while longer and people just fell back in love with these buildings by spending time in them. It's been really good for us, actually.

Speaker A: I agree with you. I think it's something that we've all really kind of noticed, how as soon as you can't go anywhere and you can't go abroad, you do suddenly become more aware of what you do have around you. And I think people enjoyed just getting out and about in whatever way they could, just walking through their village and seeing what their village had to offer, whereas normally you'd be driving through it very quickly on your way to work and maybe not notice. And so I think people really have fallen in love with their communities again and are tending to stay more local and travel England and visit England and stay in places maybe not locally, but not as far away as another country, because we have some amazing things in our own backyards. And I think people are appreciating that. And I think that's fabulous.

Speaker C: Yeah. No, I totally agree. And it's one of the benefits of this strange period in our lifetimes that we've been through every little sort of mini disaster. There's always something comes out good. And actually seeing Britain celebrate its own country and history again, which is what's happened, is good. We're obviously starting to see it fade again, which is a shame, but I think it's resonated with a lot of people and I think it will stay around for a long while and people have taken a whole new interest in Britain and what it's got to offer. It's been great.

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Speaker A: So in terms of how you celebrate the history of these properties, obviously you do an awful lot. In terms of the research and the maintenance and the upkeep, are there things that you try and do within the properties themselves to highlight and showcase that history through events or through things that you plan as part of the individual locations?

Speaker C: Not as much as I'd like, I'll be honest. Don't get me wrong, we do every year. There's some sort of celebration happening in most places, whether there's a historic levers ball at Handel or whether it's a celebration of the horse fair at Horn Castle. There's obviously a lot of paranormal stories as well. These venues have got rich history and many tale of all sorts of things happening in the night, as they say. So some of that stuff is fascinating and we run some paranormal nights as well, but there is lots of things we do. But I wish we could do more. But sometimes we've got to remember we've tried to run a business and in the end, it gets very difficult to try and balance so many different things.

Speaker A: I think it's about treating each location individually. And like you say, if there's something very relevant to that location that you can put that time into and it works, then it's absolutely advantageous because you're celebrating the history, what people are enjoying about that location. And so I think it's about looking at each spot as a story that you want to share in some capacity or another. And sometimes that lends itself to something and sometimes it just doesn't. It just depends on each site, I think.

Speaker C: Yeah, I agree. I mean, we purchased a new site this year called the Malland Hotel in near Haters Rock on Dartmoor, and I had no idea till I'd stayed a couple of nights and got chatting and realized that Agatha Christie stayed there and wrote her first book. And it's just one of those snippets in history and it's not that important to a lot of people, but I found that fascinating and it's not celebrated at all. It's not hardly mentioned. And when you start to discover little snippets of that, and of course I'm thinking we should use that, we should possibly celebrate it and at least sell the book that she wrote there, et cetera. And that's the sort of thing we are doing. So lots of little things, really, we get involved in, but it's not always about the history, it's about the community as well. So obviously we try and volunteer to help with local communities, whether it's giving free room hire for some organizations to be able to hold their events in, or meetings, even down to the Home Valley in Yorkshire, where we buy quite a few calendars every year. And it's about the donation that we're giving, really, just to help them preserve the river that runs alongside the hotel. So it's just getting involved. And I think part of that community is part of the history. It all sort of mingles into one, really, at times. It just gives you a good feeling, to be fair.

Speaker A: And I think that's what's really special about what you're doing, because it does kind of feel like this community family type feel. You're trying to give back to the community as much as you're trying to preserve these wonderful locations and the history that it has, and the wider kind of sense of how they then fit in alongside what else is going on around them. And it's really fabulous that there's that much care and attention going into each place the way that you're putting into them.

Speaker C: Yeah, we try. And what's interesting is that we've had the oldest is now been with us 24 years, and we've had to go back and revisit that four times in that time to say, right, do we need to make new improvements and do we need to reassess the offer, et cetera. But that's the only way we can keep these buildings alive and keep the public passionate about going back into them. A part of the issue which fascinates me, we called the company the Coaching Group simply because that's what we're running, coaching ins. When we you know, we thought about it, we didn't want to make it any harder than that, really. But when you start looking at the history of coaching ins and how a lot of them dominated the mail service and how these coaches went from venue to venue, and horses, sometimes up to 200 horses, were housed at these coaching ins, it absolutely fascinates me. And then, of course, there was the period where the railways arrived and it absolutely devastated these coaching ins. And funny enough that it's like that circle of history, they all started to go in disrepair. The point where the government actually said to local landowners, we would like you to try and form a trust, raise cash and put in that trust and buy the local coaching in and try to revive it and try to make it survive and try to reinvest in it. And that's what happened. And eventually these trusts started popping up everywhere, to the point there was 110 of them and eventually they were amalgamated into one company and later on, trust houses then amalgamated with Forte. So you end up with trust. House, forte. And I was absolutely fascinated at history that the government had intervened at some point because of the demise of these coachings, because the railways arriving and it was down to the government at that point to save them and persuade local landowners to invest. And I just find that fascinating. But it says that these cycles go round, come and go and come and go, and hopefully somebody will grab the mantle and try and revive these places when they do come into a little bit of disrepair.

Speaker A: Oh, gosh, absolutely. And I think when you realize the history that they've had and the kind of the ebbs and flow that they've had, the changes that they've had, you really do see how, despite all of that, their prominence and their importance is something that people have really latched onto to try and keep them going. And just coming back to what we started with at the very beginning, just these are really very much central to a community. Their importance is really quite significant for that reason, because so many things have happened inside their doors, from plots and celebrations, weddings, funerals gatherings, important dignitaries coming together, people of note. I mean, so many different things, so many stories and so many people. And like you said, it's those moments when you see the bit of graffiti on a window or on a wall and they can be in very kind of out of the way, tucked away places like toilet walls. It's just incredible.

Speaker C: No, it is, it's fascinating. One of the venues when Will recruits the history. It turned out to be a very political hot seat where each political party that came into government sort of took the venue over, and it was their main offices and meeting place. And there was a succession probably, of about six or seven MPs on the Trot that were all corrupt. Ultimately, this was 150 years ago, so we're talking nothing to do with today's political agenda, but it's just fascinating seeing how these crooked MPs came along and I'm talking about all parties. Just incredible, really. And it all happened within those walls and the venue itself became very famous and important for that at the time, which once again I find fascinating. But of course now we have to also put an offer on that's current. We need to be able to offer something that actually we've released premium, so we tend to always only put fresh food menus on. So not frozen or pre prepared, but fresh. And our drinks offers are always probably top end, our quite extensive wine list and obviously cocktail is incredibly big now and beer is in decline slowly. Well, it is nationally, but it's not the thing people always want nowadays, so we have to offer something that's far more current. But one thing I find quite interesting at the moment, we've just seen a bit of a revival in afternoon tea, and afternoon tea had almost become to the joy of the five star, sort of very well known hotels and it was seen as a very rare treat. Well, now it's accessible to most and it's. Becoming back on trend again, which is lovely to see because it's a great celebration where anybody can sit and enjoy an afternoon tea. So once again, we have to keeping our offer current, making sure it's appealing. And I think if we do, we'll be hopefully continue to be successful in these venues and then we carry on preserving the history, carry on spending money on them and it goes on and on really.

Speaker A: So in terms of when you're looking at maybe taking over a property, what are the kinds of things that maybe flag up a property that makes you possibly interested, that makes you want to go in and possibly take something over to try and bring that one back to where it needs to be?

Speaker C: It's quite interesting really, because you have to separate your heart and head sorry, separate your heart from your head. What I mean by that. We are running a business and we have to remember because ultimately, although I very seldom spoke about profit, profit is there to provide the things we need. And if we want to provide good quality fix and fit ins and nice bedrooms and quality food, et cetera, it needs to be profitable. So we need to find a venue that will be profitable. And unfortunately, I've occasionally come across something that my heart says, this is lovely, I'd love to have a go at it, I'd love to get involved, but deep, deep down, I know often we wouldn't make such a great success of it. And unfortunately, there's some simple things that give that away. Whether it's just location, it might be just slightly off pitch or simply the ground floor isn't of a sort of layout to be able to maximize on food and beverage coverage covers. So there has to be a business element when we go into them because we need to make sure it's got the best possibility of trading well. And I took on a place in Bakewell called the Rutland Arms and I'd seen it on television, it had been in one of those hotel inspector documentaries and it was ran very poorly and it got a bad reputation from that program. And when I arrived, I was panicked a little bit because I couldn't stand how I could possibly get the place buzing again and how we didn't have the right layout on the ground floor. And I walked away. But I did go back another year later and had another look and I sat and sat and thought and I eventually came with an idea that could work, but it did mean sacrificing the main function room, the main ballroom and turning that into the main eating area. And it was a risk, I'll be honest, a big risk. But once again, my heart was pushing a little bit harder on this one because I just love the venue. It sat in the middle of Bakewell on the major sort of thoroughfare and it's just a magnificent building. And good news is, from day one, it was a major success. So we've managed to pull it off. But it was slightly probably one of the ones I took a gamble on more than some of the really dead certain chore ones. But that's what I'm saying. You have to sort of remove the heart a little bit because we can all be busy fools, but we don't want to be buying something that could fail and then could ultimately unsettle the whole company. So we have to be a bit careful. But it's a strange feeling because as I walk in sometimes, if it's right, I get the feeling I can't quite explain it, but I just know instinctively that it's correct, it's the right thing to do and just the other way off. And I walk in and straightaway recognize this isn't something we should be doing and we could set ourselves up for failure. And like I say, I need to preserve the whole group and therefore I don't desperately want anything that could drag us backwards.

Speaker A: Well, no. And with 32 properties as part of your portfolio and the number of staff, I mean, obviously you have to give due diligence because to not do that would mean that you're potentially putting 32 other fabulous properties at risk, that you're not going to be able to continue to give them what they need. And I'm very much a firm believer in that. Sometimes if you know it's not right for you, it means that property is right for someone else. And it's kind of being able to see that sometimes and recognize when you can do something and you're in a position to do something and when you're not going to be able to make something work for that place right now. And if you try and fail, sometimes that's more detrimental to that property and that location than someone else who has that time, who has maybe something different up their sleeve or other connections or other thoughts and so on and so forth that are going to make it something that's going to last and have that kind of longevity.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And it is having to try and make those decisions. And also the approach has to be what it needs doing to it. Because ultimately we've spent quite a few million pounds on some venues and others we spent very little. And sometimes it's a jigsaw puzzle trying to work out actually the cash we have available. What would be the best spend? Would it be best in the public areas? Would it be best in the bedrooms, actually? Is there something we could park till later? Could we get that area operating and successful to then help fund the rest? Especially in the early days when cash was very tight, there were the sort of decisions we were making. I kind of think it was more fun in a way because we only had so many options where now we're well financed and we have a lot more options open to us. But having to make a decision that would make or break back in the old days when we first started was a strange feeling, really, but quite enjoyable. But the passion to do them ultimately won over. I could have probably chosen an easier path, but I love the old buildings. I just think they're marvelous and fantastic and heritage is incredible. And to be able to own some of these and actually then spend the time to try and bring them back to life again is what we like to think we're doing tremendous.

Speaker A: As I say, it's something that really speaks to my heart. I mean, on a personal note, my father, when he came out of the military, my parents ran two pubs for quite a long time and so much of my teenage years was growing up inside a very old country village inn. And there is nothing more kind of heartwarming than having that feeling of sitting by a fire in an old pub with those wonderful flagstone kind of tiles on the floor and that old bar. The whole feel of it, I mean, it's incredible. And so I love that, like I've said before, I love that you're helping to maintain some locations that deserve it because they're so important to communities, to families, to the history, the heritage of the buildings. I mean, just so many different things that you're really trying to bring together and to give attention and love to, which is fabulous.

Speaker C: It's interesting, sometimes a dilemma comes along. You mentioned fire, open fires, and we had a chimney fire at a place called the White Art Roll in the Cotswolds. And the easiest decision would just say, well, never light the fire again. But instead we investigated it and found that actually there was a way we could take part of the wall out upstairs in a corridor to get inside the chimney to make the repairs. And this company we engaged with use this system called Bagging, where they literally drag a bag up through the chimney, which coats the inside with a layer of protective substance and cut. Long story short, we reinstated the chimney, which was able then to have real fires ever since. But in a way, it had to be because it's part of the ambience of the building and there's so many fireplaces that have been boarded up or bricked up and never used again. And it's quite a shame, really. And if you got something like that, once again, it's quite historic. We should make the most of it, try and preserve it. I like to think we've put it in a good place, at least for the next 50 years.

Speaker A: Absolutely. So, in terms of kind of future plans, do you have any properties that you're eyeing up, that you're thinking about or are you quite happy with where you are? You're 32.

Speaker C: No, we're always eyeing them up. Actually, it's something I can't help myself. And interesting, the bigger we get, the more contact we get. So often we'll get calls or emails out the blue with somebody either recommended somewhere or saying they have somewhere. So often that's where the best leads come from. And often it doesn't go anywhere. But we have what we call a pipeline, which we've been following for years. And some venues have been on that pipeline for probably nearly ten years yet, and we've still not been able to get anywhere near them. But all in time and who knows? But a question I often get asked is how big do you want to grow it? And actually, I've never come up with a definitive answer. And the only thing I can say is what I'd love one day is for it to be a national name, that maybe if somebody happened to mention coaching Group that I stayed at a coaching in group venue and they're chatting in the living room, somebody else in that party might go, oh, I've heard of those. For me, that's the aim. I think it's just that it's known nationally and people are aware of it, which would be great because that way hopefully, we could stay busy and we can keep preserving these buildings that way. But where it goes to, I don't know. It's a journey I'm still loving and enjoying and why I am doing so, I have no intention of stopping. And who knows? Unfortunately, I've got some family in the business, my two sons both work in the business and I know, I say it myself, they're a chip off the old block and they get very involved and they earn their own respect and they're as passionate as I am.

Speaker A: But I think building up that reputation and getting that name out is about, in some ways, standing for something. And I think this is what the Coaching in Group does. You stand for preserving the history, preserving the heritage, bringing that family feel, that community feel to these properties, and really trying to bring them back to somewhere that people are going to want to visit and to spend time in and to enjoy in the way that they were 100 years ago, 200 years ago. And I think that's what is special about what you're doing. You really stand for all of those things. And I think when you do that and you maintain that in the way that you are, that's how people get to know you as a company, as an organization, because you don't slack on that.

Speaker C: I think all we've ever really tried to do is make people proud. Now, whether that's the people who work with us or whether that's the locals who know the venue very well, we want people who are proud of it and proud of where they work and proud of where they go. And on the whole, we pull that off. I think and we've always had a very clear view on people. And our own people come first, don't get me wrong, the customer is king and we need to look after them desperately. But we deeply believe if we look after our own people, they will look after our customers and give them the best possible experience and we work hard at that and we have a clear mantra. And one of those things is people over process. And don't get me wrong, process is important and health and safety is absolutely vital. We need to make everybody safe. But let's not say no to people because the computer says no. It's filled down to personalities. And although at the moment the workforce, I think is something like 1400 people, we still look at individually people every day because it's what we do and it's what we've always been proud of doing. And I still spend most of my week, 80% of my week working week in those venues, walking in, talking to people, getting to understand them, getting to understand their needs. If carrying with that sort of approach, people then are proud. And hence that's why these venues become successful and work well and that's why the local people are proud of them.

Speaker A: And we'll make sure to put on the website and in the podcast description, dates the links for the coaching and group because you have access on the site to the different properties, so people can really get a feel for the range of properties that you've got. You can find them all on there, you can look at the history, the written accounts, the pictures. There's a wonderful brochure that gives people kind of an insight into each building, where they are, what you can expect. And so for anybody looking for a great venue to maybe take part in as an event, something that might catch your eye, just a wonderful place to go and stay or eat or have something to drink. If you're going through that area, people can see the range of properties that you've got and hopefully come along and have a wonderful time at some of these.

Speaker C: It'd be lovely if they would. Yeah, absolutely. They're there to be used and experienced. So anybody wanting to try one of the venues, it'd be great, really would.

Speaker A: Thank you so much for your time. I mean, as I say, it's incredible what you're doing. And like I said, having grown up in my teenage years in a pub that sat in the heart of a village, it really does make me smile that someone is giving so much time and attention and care in. The way that you are to all of these properties and all of your staff just to give them that love that they deserve, because they're fabulous.

Speaker C: Well, thank you very much, appreciate that. Thank you.

Speaker A: And I will say goodbye to everyone listening. Thank you everyone. Bye for now.

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