Sea Monsters and Merfolk: Lost Treasures of the Deep

Michelle: Before we dive into the eerie tales of the past, I have some electrifying news to share with you. I'm excited to announce that the Haunted History Chronicles podcast now has its very own small shop of the macabre and mysterious. Picture this exclusive merchandise, hauntingly beautiful artwork, spine tingling stickers, s, mugs that will make your morning coffee seem positively paranormal, and prints that capture the ghostly essence of days gone by. Whether you're a longtime listener of the show or a newcomer drawn to the enigmatic allure of Haunted history, the shop is your gateway to the supernatural. Imagine decorating your space with a piece of history, a connection to the spectral past. The merchandise is designed to evoke the very essence of the stories I share, making it an essential addition to your collection of all things eerie. You can find all these hair raising treasures on the website, or simply follow the links conveniently placed in the podcast description notes it's so easy, even a ghost could do it. So whether you're searching for the perfect addition to your Haunted memorabilia collection or just wanting to immerse yourself in the world of the supernatural, the shop is here to provide. Dive into the past, embrace the spook, and let the stories of history's ghosts haunt your space. So why not visit the shop today and remember, the spirits of the past are waiting for you. The Haunted History chronicles exclusive merchandise is just a click away. Happy shopping, and may the spirits be with you. Hi everyone, and welcome back to Haunted History Chronicles. First of all, thank you for taking a listen to this episode. Before we begin, I just want to throw out a few ways you can.

Michelle: Get involved and help support the show.

Michelle: We have a Patreon page as well as an Amazon link, so hopefully if you're interested in supporting, you can find a way that best suits you. All of the links for those can either be found in the show notes or over on the website. Of course, just continuing to help spread the word of the show on social media, leaving reviews and sharing with friends and family is also a huge help. So thank you for all that you do. And now let's get started by introducing today's podcast or guest. Welcome, dear listeners, to another episode of the Haunted History Chronicles. Tonight we delve into the enigmatic and hauntingly beautiful realm of Cornwall, a place where the echoes of ancient legends and mysteries reverberate through the rugged cliffs and windswept malls. Nestled in the embrace of the wild ocean, Cornwall beckons to those who seek the secrets of a land steeped in the shadowy embrace of the past. This is a place where time stands still where the lines between reality and folklore blurs into a mesmerizing tapestry of myths and folklore. From the whispers of the first Stone Age settlers to the thundering footsteps of the ancient Celtic tribes and the lingering enchantment of the legends of King Arthur, Cornwall remains a treasure trove of tales that have endured the test of time. Joining us on this journey through the veiled enigma of Cornwall is none other than esteemed guest Elizabeth Dale, a revered Cornish writer, blogger, and the enchanting voice behind the podcast, the Cornish Bird. Together we shall look at some of the underwater mysteries that lie hidden beyond the craggy cliffs and lie beneath the surface of the water. Elizabeth will guide us through the secrets of this land, sharing her wisdom and insights into the magical secret places that await with tales of sea monsters and mermaids. Prepare to be spellbound as we unearth the lost tales and haunted history that have shaped the essence of Cornwall, revealing the echoes of the past that still resonate within its very core. So brace yourselves for an expedition into the heart of Cornwall's legends, mysteries and strange encounters. Let the journey begin.

Michelle: Hi Elizabeth, thank you so much for joining me this evening.

Elizabeth Dale: Hi Michelle, thank you so much for having me.

Michelle: Do you want to just start by telling us a little bit about yourself and of course your blog and your podcast? And what got you started in wanting to go down that route? Yeah.

Elizabeth Dale: So my name's Elizabeth Dale and I'm a Cornish writer. I'm not a historian, I'm just completely fascinated by Cornish history. So I started my blog, gosh, it must be about eight years ago now, actually, as part of my university course, because we were told we had to start blogging. And this was a very new concept for me. I was a mature student and blogging was not something that I had ever thought about doing before. So I just started doing it and absolutely loved it. Write about what I wanted to write about and what really interested me. And I've just always been really curious about local myths and legends and local history and yeah, just really started from there. And the podcast just seemed like a natural progression of that a couple of years ago because there were some stories that I'd found in my research that they just seemed to be asking to be made into a podcast. So yes, I saved some of my much more unusual or more curious stories, I suppose, for the podcast, and Cornwall.

Michelle: Really does seem to be steeped in just rich, incredible history and myths and legends. I was just going to say, what factors do you think contribute to that kind of proliferation of folklore, if you like, in the region.

Elizabeth Dale: Oh, I don't know. I mean, it's an endless source of stories for me, and entertainment. It really does feel like everywhere you go in the landscape all around the coast, every nook and cranny, it feels like there's some kind of myth associated with it. Every boulder is something to do with a giant has hurled it to that location. Every headland is somewhere where witches were standing and calling up storms. So it's just an endless source of fascination. And I think, I guess, like, all these sort of places that are on the fringe, like Cornwall is, they just tend to, I don't know, attract those kind of stories, or just the atmosphere of a place creates them in itself.

Michelle: And I do think, like, you were just kind of touching upon that geograPhy. The landscape really does play such a significant part in that because it has it all. You've got the atmospheric rocky regions, you've got the crashing waves, the cliffs. I mean, you've basically got every type of landscape you can imagine. And with that, then obviously so many different types of characters and individuals and stories that could be generated across those different types of landscapes.

Elizabeth Dale: Yeah, for sure. I often think that folklore, myths, and legends, there were often stories that were told to try and explain something that people couldn't understand. So the giant stories, how the Koits were created, very often, Tracydi Koit, for example, is known as the Giant's house. So nature, people just trying to explain the mystery that was surrounding them, things that they didn't quite understand, couldn't quite explain.

Michelle: And I think that kind of then leads itself into you very much see featured this explanation of things unexplainable and those elements of the supernatural being brought into a lot of these stories in some format or another. And I think it's then something that you see that really drives an enduring fascination because they're still there. We're still fascinated equally with these types of stories because in some way, it just allows us to have this bridge to understand belief systems and thoughts from a time in the past, and it just allows us to connect with that and to understand it and also, at the same time, evaluate our own beliefs. And there's something very powerful and enduring about that, I think, as well.

Elizabeth Dale: Yeah, definitely. It is a real connection to the past. These legends tell you so much about what was important to people. And, yeah, obviously, you can relate that forward to your own life, really. And it gives you a deeper connection, I think, to your ancestors, to the past, and obviously to the magical landscape that surround you.

Michelle: And speaking of geography and magical landscape, I know that you have one particular incredible account from 1827 of a mermaid sighting.

Elizabeth Dale: Yes, this one's great, because I think a lot of people, when they will automatically think of the Mermaid of Zena, I think that's one of our most famous folktales, but in actual fact, it's quite a late one. It was only recorded in 1873, so sort of late Victorian period, and there have obviously been sightings of mermaids in Cornwall for much, much longer than mean. I was just thinking about this before I was talking to you this evening. The Embryue Church, I don't know if you've ever been there. It's a beautiful church just outside of Helston for wall paintings, beautifully preserved on the walls, and they're about 600 years old, these wall paintings. And you've got images of St Christopher and Christ and Thomas Abecket and King Henry VI, but in amongst that, you've got this beautiful image of a mermaid looking at herself in a little hand mirror. So what I'm saying is that the Mermaid of Zena is one of our most famous folktales, but mermaid sightings obviously date back much, much further than that. In this one in 1827 was actually reported in the newspapers. And, yeah, I wrote about it a few years ago now, and it happened in the height of summer and over three consecutive days, there were these sightings of mermaids on a beach called Morganporth, which is actually near Newkie.

Michelle: And I know that there know a particular encounter from a young man who experienced it on the first day. You mentioned that it kind of happened over consecutive days. What exactly did he witness in that cave and how did it appear to him, in that sense of part human?

Elizabeth Dale: Yeah, I know, and that's the other fascinating thing as well. We have this very fixed image these days of what a mermaid should look like, and this idea of this very beautiful woman that's half woman and half fish, and she's got long golden hair and a bikini made of seashells. But that really wasn't always the image of a mermaid. And these descriptions from 1827 sort of conjure up a much sort of a less attractive image, the story goes, or what was reported in the newspaper, I should sAy, was that a young man was meeting his friend on the beach at Morgan Paul, and they were going to go fishing together. And he arrived on the beach and couldn't see his friend, so sort of was hanging around and then heard some noises coming from one of the caves there on the beach. And he thought at first that it was his friend playing a trick on him. And so he supposedly went inside and then came herring back up the beach, because he had seen in there what he described as a part human in the cave, and it had long hair hanging all around its. Its body. And, yeah, he was absolutely petrified by what he had seen.

Michelle: Were there any other reports of similar sightings or unusual occurrences in the area leading up to those three days when it really started to be reported?

Elizabeth Dale: Yeah, no, not that. Not that I could find. Which doesn't mean to say that there weren't. I mean, the newspapers obviously picked up on the story and sent a reporter down there, but this was sort of days after, and they were only getting the stories then from the witnesses. The reporter, I don't believe, saw anything himself. The second sighting came the following day, and that was actually by a group of men above the same beach, possibly looking for pilchard Shoals. And they again described seeing these half human creatures below them on the rocks. I think there was supposedly three of them that time. And then it happened again on the third day. And this time the men said that they actually watched five of these creatures for an extended period of time, for more than an hour, and they gave quite a vivid description of what they saw. And they said that these mermaids had really long hair, sort of nine or 10ft long, that was trailing out beside them on the rocks, and that they were lying in the sun sort of sunbathing, and some of them were swimming in the sea. And they said that their upper bodies were very pale skin and that their lower half was a fin that was kind of blue in color. Now, obviously, people were very skeptical then, I'm sure, and people will be very skeptical now. But I think what I find really interesting about these stories is that they're reported by people who were very familiar with the coast, and they were very familiar with the creatures that lived in the waters around their coast. And sea monsters in particular. A lot of the reports that you get here in Cornwall actually come from mariners, from fishermen, and it becomes quite hard to completely just discount these accounts because they're coming from people who should know what they're looking at and know that that's not a seal that they're watching, that it's something very different. So, yeah, that's why I find this story from Morgan Paw so fascinating, that there were multiple accounts eat these particular creatures over three consecutive days, which I think is really fascinating.

Michelle: And like you said, the individuals who made these sightings and the fact that one of them was a group experience just. I think it adds weight to something having been witnessed, whatever it was, because it's easy to discount something when it's one person, but a group, it's harder to. And then, like you mentioned, when it's people who are so familiar with what you see along that area of the coast where they've probably seen everything at some point, for them to have an experience, it makes it a bit strange or a bit more OD. I think.

Elizabeth Dale: Yeah. If it was the only. The boy, the young man on the first day, then you could definitely say that he had imagined it or he had seen something that was a seal or was some other kind of sea creature that he wasn't familiar with. Several people watching these creatures for an extended period of time, then it becomes much more difficult to just completely poo poo it and say that it's all a figment of their imagination.

Michelle: Were there any other attempts to investigate those sightings further, know the following days, or talk to other potential witnesses to try and find out more?

Elizabeth Dale: No, not that I'm aware of. I think the journalists came know and took these accounts from the people in Morgan Porth. And as far as I can gather, that was kind of the end of it. That doesn't mean to say that locally they didn't see more or there wasn't more discussion. I'm sure there was a lot of discussion down the pub about what people had seen.

Michelle: Oh, I think so. I mean, you can imagine it, can't you? It's a very rich story to precisely do that, to sit around a fire with a pint in your hand and talk about. But also because of that very strong connection with the fishing community, obviously, tales of sea creatures and mermaids were really prevalent. So I think it would have probably been just part of their culture anyway, in their storytelling experience. And so if there is an experience like this, an eyewitness account or accounts in this case, I'm sure it was kind of common topic fodder, if you like.

Elizabeth Dale: Yeah, I'm sure. And as you say, that those kind of stories are kind of universal, aren't they? All over the world. Sea monsters as well. All over the world, which I think that aspect is interesting in itself. This isn't something that's just specific to the coast of Cornwall or the coast of the UK. You get mermaid stories in all different cultures around the world, and you also.

Michelle: Get versions of them. So something that I've spoken about before on the podcast is how language over time changes when it comes to saying that this is an example of this 100 years later, that wording, that the way it's been grouped is classified as something else. And I think when you start reexamining examples of folklore, you start to see connections with other rich stories that just have too many coincidences to not make that possible leap, that these are the same types of experiences being shared.

Elizabeth Dale: Yeah. There's too much in common, isn't there?

Michelle: Absolutely. So have there been any modern sightings of mermaids in that area as a kind of a follow up much earlier? 27 one?

Elizabeth Dale: No, I don't think so. Or at least I haven't actually come across any. But there have definitely been plenty of sightings of other kind of sea monsters around the Cornish coast up until actually fairly, quite recently. There was a particular spate of them in the 1970s and 80s, which I've written about as well.

Michelle: Gosh, it's fascinating, isn't it? Makes you just want to go out and watch and look and hope.

Elizabeth Dale: I know I'm one of those people that I always want to see a ghost, or I want to see a fairy, or I'm very open to it, but it never happens.

Michelle: But I just think it speaks so much like we've spoken about. It speaks so much, doesn't it, about what they believed in and just the power of story and how enduring it was that all of these years later, these particular stories are still there, they're still present, and they're still being written about and spoken about on podcasts and, yeah, just part of the community storytelling and then the wider storytelling around the globe, like we've mentioned. I think the fact that that still happens tells us something about the importance of this tradition and something about the stories, the meaning of them, or the magical nature of them, or the supernatural part of it, or whatever it is. There is something very powerful about what is within them, the depths within them.

Elizabeth Dale: At the start with the Mermaid of Zena, there have been numerous books written about the mermaid of Zena, and songs and pieces of music and paintings. Yeah, she definitely inspires people right up until the present day. And going to see the mermaid's chair in Zena is just one of those things that if you're familiar with Colemore, if you're familiar with the Penworth area, that you will go to Zena Church and you will go and sit in the mermaid's chair.

Michelle: And I think you're right. I think you see elements of it in so much, don't you? In terms of painting, in terms of architecture, in terms of just stories, folklore. I mean, just little nooks and crannies here and there. And then you just notice these small things and then you make this connection of that's a mermaid at the end of that pew, or that's a mermaid tucked away in the corner of that alcove up there. It's incredible. It's really incredibLe. And then when you know some of the stories that sit behind them, I just think again, it just allows that bridge to make that connection with the people who are telling those stories and then building these structures as to see that they were so important to them, their everyday lives.

Elizabeth Dale: Yeah, exactly. Like the wall paintings in Brieg Church they were put up there to, because most people during that medieval period, almost ordinary people, couldn't read and write. So one of the ways that they were taught the Bible stories was know, fantastic wall paintings. But included amongst all those saints, there's this little mermaid just lurking in the water at St. Christopher's feet, checking herself out in a mirror.

Michelle: But I think it very much speaks to the power of religion, obviously was so very, very strong for people. But at the same time, there is this power in something otherworldly and people very much clinging to both because you can't almost put all of your faith in one. You've still got to somehow have these connections with these older belief systems and traditions. And so you do have this kind of marrying of the two in so many little ways like that in murals and architecture and so on, like we've talked about. And again, I just think it speaks so much to these are people straddling almost two worlds and trying to bring together different parts of who they are and older traditions and the church and all of these other things to make sense of what's happening around them.

Elizabeth Dale: Yeah, they still needed that connection to those old.

Michelle: And, you know, we've obviously been talking about these wonderful sea creatures, the mermaids, and you've touched upon the fact, know, obviously, Cornwall obviously is so well known also for other sightings and legends of sea monsters. Do you want to elaborate a little bit about that and go into some of the other encounters that you've written about or spoken about on the podcast?

Elizabeth Dale: So I started looking into sea monsters. Gosh, quite early on in the blog, I came across a story of a monster that had fisherman off the Roseland. I think that was in the 1840s. And that was the first story that I came across. Paul Scatho, it was. And that just sent me off on a bit of a mission to see what other stories that I could dig up. And the most famous of them, I would guess, is the Morgor, although the name is pronounced in several different ways. But I'm going to stick with Morgor. And she is a sea monster, living or lived in the Falmouth Bay area, specifically close to the healthord River. And she was spotted on numerous occasions over the sort of 1970s and such an extent that the area became known as the Morgue Mile because there had just been so many sightings of this strange creature in the water.

Michelle: It's just fascinating, isn't it? I mean, just really incredible. Do you know what inspired that local legend? What was the kind of the evidence, that definitive bit of evidence, maybe, that prompted that type of storytelling in that area? Was there anything in specific that was catalyst?

Elizabeth Dale: I can't say exactly, but there was just numerous sightings that people were reporting to the newspapers. So, for example, in 1975, standing on Pendennis Point, saw a creature out in the water that had a large conger eel in its mouth, which goes to show you perhaps how big the sea monster was if it had a great big conga eel. And they described it to the newspapers as a hideous humped creature with a long bristly neck and stumpy horns. And then a few months after that, a letter and series of photographs were sent to the Falmouth packet office. That's the local newspaper there in Falmouth. And the lady that sent the letter, she wanted to remain anonymous, but she claimed to have watched this creature, which she said was 15 or 18ft long with a snake's head out in the water off Trafus's Point, which is a headland just in Falmouth Bay. They're very, very grainy, but you can imagine we're talking the 1970s here. I'm sure she didn't have a fancy Zoom camera, but you can quite clearly see the outline of this long necked creature. So, yeah, that's how it all began. There was just through 1970, 519 76. For at least two or three years there were these sightings, and then that started sort of a little bit of a media frenzy in a way. They had reporters come down from all over the place. They're itch from Scotland, who visited the Helford river because she believed that she could make contact with Nessie in Scotland and therefore she would be able to make contact with Morgor in the Halford River. And apparently she took to swimming naked in the river. How this was going to get the sea creature to come out and communicate with her, I'm not sure, but yes, there was a TV document yeah, all kinds of things were happening, all revolving around this sea creature that was supposedly living in the Helford River.

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Michelle: Fascinating, though, how you see accounts like this crop up and then disappear for a little while, and then something else reappears decades later. I mean, we've seen it recently, obviously, with the resurgence and interest in accounts of Nessie and everybody flocking up there to have that weekend, of really trying to see if they could find anything. But again, I just think it speaks to this enduring need and desire to understand the ocean better and what lays beneath it, because it's so vast, it's so deep. Who knows, really what could be lurking beneath that surface that's hidden from our view. And it kind of plays into all of those fears, doesn't it, of what's there with us whilst we're swimming around and enjoying ourselves. What do we not see?

Elizabeth Dale: Yeah, very much so, yes. And you're right, has come and gone over the years. One of the earlier sightings, actually that wasn't actually recorded at the time, but was recorded in the 1970s, was a chap who claimed to have seen this sea creature when he had been a boy, which was in the 1950s. So, yeah, there was a lot of interest at the time. I haven't heard anything more recently, though. I think that the sightings sort of faded out in the. Don't think there's been much since then. But going back, it's difficult in some of the cases to discount the stories because of the people that were seeing these unusual things. One of the most important accounts, I suppose, was in July 1976, and that was made by two fishermen, and one of which had more than 40 years experience, and he told the newspapers that he's seen all kinds of sea creatures. This was not something that was familiar to him and he was adamant that he had seen some kind of sea monster. So, yeah, it's accounts like that one that are more difficult to discount.

Michelle: Absolutely.

Michelle: And I think there's something quite striking in the similarities between the descriptions as well. And you can say that maybe people have picked up or remembered something from seeing something reported earlier, but I don't know if that accounts for everything in the sense that you've got, like we've been talking about, you've got people who are very kind of down to earth, straightforward, shooting from the hip type thing. They're not going to be making up accounts of sea creatures when they're the rugged fishermen doing this day in and day out.

Elizabeth Dale: No, there was A chap called Donald Ferriss. He actually told the newspapers that he thought that the whole thing was a joke, that people were deluding themselves or making it up or imagining things. And then in September 1976, he was walking his dog along Gilling Bay's beach and he told the West Britain that he saw a creature that he estimated was 60 foot long in the water off that beach. And up until that point, he'd papooed everybody else's accounts. That's quite OD in itself, I think.

Michelle: But it's quite a striking, sizable thing to imagine, isn't it? I mean, it's not something small, it's something very obvious, something very noticeable, something striking. And again, I think some of those details makes it, I think, harder to just completely discount as being total rubbish, because it's not something that they've just caught a glimpse of. Possibly something small just rearing itself out of the water. That could be something similar to something else. These are sightings of something very significant. So, again, it makes it more mystifying, more intriguing, I think.

Elizabeth Dale: Yeah, it does, for sure. I mean, obviously, there started to be a sort of a bit of a media circus around it, and there were certain local characters who took advantage and tried to make a bit of money. There was a good bit of local humor around it as well. I love the story that a lot of the local schools held a competition for the children, like a dress up, fancy dress competition, to make themselves into the most convincing sea monster and win a prize, which I think is great. It just shows a little bit of local humor and not taking themselves too seriously. And maybe as well, to stop the children being frightened. There must have been a certain amount of trepidation, I would have thought, of getting in the water. If all these people are telling you that they're seeing a sea monster out there, gosh, absolutely.

Michelle: But again, I think it's a brilliant way how they've done it, of allowing those children to connect with what's happening locally and to, like you said, to not have that fear of what may be in the water if they go out swimming or paddling or whatever, but it just allows them to connect with the story themselves and to be fascinated by their own landscape. And I think we can all too often forget the beauty and the majesty of what's right on our doorstep. But when you have something like that happen, it does allow you to, I think, really see it suddenly and appreciate it in a very different way.

Elizabeth Dale: Yeah, for sure. There is a curious aspect as well to the story that I told you of the two fishermen that spotted the sea monster. The thing that I find curious is the Natural History Museum actually sent a representative down to speak to these two fishermen, and they interviewed them separately. And according to the accounts of the time, the two men both identified the same picture. They were shown a series of mockups, let's say, of what the sea creature that they had seen looked like, and they both picked out the exact same image, and that image was of. That had been extinct for however many millions of years. And I just think that's really just a small fact, but an interesting one about the whole thing.

Michelle: Well, again, it just adds to the mystery and to the intrigue, doesn't it, as to. Well, here you've got something corroborative in the sense that they hadn't been prepared for that, but somehow have picked exactly the same type of image to show what it was that they saw.

Elizabeth Dale: It kind of adds weight to the fact that they weren't making it up. What they want is what I mean, that they genuinely saw something that they didn't understand.

Michelle: So have there been any kind of studies or research or thoughts, compelling arguments, that suggest what might have been witnessed by different.

Elizabeth Dale: Yeah, there's been all kinds of theories towards being some kind of giant eel. And I know that there are reports from modern divers of some very large conga eels out in Falmouth Bay, particularly actually in the Carrick roads. I don't know if you know the King Harry Ferry crossing. Not on the. Sorry. On the Carrick roads, the King Harry Ferry crossing. So I heard a story many years ago. Now, the ferry crosses the river by a chain mechanism, so there's a chain that sort of drags along the riverbed and pulls the ferry across and at that point in the river, it's very, very deep. Extremely deep. They take enormous ships up there. You wouldn't believe by the width of the river and how big a ship that they can get up there. Anyway, this chain sort of dangles down into the water and specialized divers down, I think, to check the chain and to do maintenance and clean everything and repair. And the story that I was told by someone that knew one of these divers is that one occasion they were down checking this chain, and of course, it's pitch black down there as well. And in one of their lights, they caught the most enormous eel, just the hugest eel that they had ever seen. And it was so big that the divers, point blank refused ever to go down there again. Now, how true that story is, I don't know. I obviously heard it second or third hand. But that is one of the theories is that people have spotted an eel, but it doesn't quite fit with the description that we've got from these sightings in the. It doesn't quite make sense to me.

Michelle: But again, I think this is the beauty of things like this. You have certain parts that kind of make sense, but doesn't fit everything. And it just keeps the story going, doesn't it? Keeps the discussion going, because there isn't definitive proof one way or the other. There's just theories and suggestions and thoughts, and it's part of the mystery. And again, I think that's what's so wonderful about so much of what you see in terms of folklore and myths and legends of places all over the world. But Cornwall does seem to have a lot.

Elizabeth Dale: We love a good story, but I.

Michelle: Think it comes back to what you said right at the start. It's this connection to something really old. And Cornwall is just one of those places that still seems to have this connection of wanting to be part of that. The. Not the rat race, not the fast paced living of places like London. And I think with so many different locations and history, you're bound to have these types of stories, and there is just an incredible array of them just everywhere, like you mentioned, every type of story imaginable. And that is the mystery. It's the beauty of it. But when you don't have everything neatly sewn together, again, it just makes that mystery even more intriguing, doesn't it? That it's not clear cut. You can find things either side of the argument.

Elizabeth Dale: Yeah. That it's open to your interpretation and open to your imagination as well. Yeah, I mean, I think anyone that has visited Cornwall, especially in the winter, I would say it's all very well standing on a beach on a lovely warm, sunny day when the waves are just lapping gently in. It's a completely whole other beast on a very rough winter's day, that you can actually see it coming across the water. It just gives a whole different atmosphere. And, yeah, there's so many sort of atmospheric landscapes down here, and it all molds together to create all these long standing myths. And as you say, I think, as a rule, down here, we are very fond of those stories. They're very much part of our culture, for sure.

Michelle: And I think something you just said, I think, really is absolutely true that the winter season is so atmospheric. And I think we forget that in years gone by, it would have been far more difficult to get in and out. You would have been a bit more isolated than you are.

Elizabeth Dale: Very much so.

Michelle: And so again, with all of that happening around you, when you're stuck inside, it's an opportunity to have a good yarn, isn't it? To have a good story and to while away the winter months. But then when you have very real things happening, you would have had a prevalence of things like shipwrecks, storms rolling in out of nowhere, like you mentioned, just mist coming in so quickly. All of those would have had some kind of a story attached to them to explain what was happening.

Elizabeth Dale: Very much so.

Michelle: And again, it was just a way of people trying to understand and to make sense in some ways to control the elements around them.

Elizabeth Dale: Yeah.

Michelle: So it's fascinating. Do you have a particular favourite part of Cornwall that you've enjoyed researching or myth or legend or ghost Law or something that has favourite?

Elizabeth Dale: Oh, gosh, no. That's like trying know pick a favourite child isn't love. I love Cornwall in so many. I love all the different landscapes, I suppose I should say I love being by the coast, but I suppose if you made me know. I love being up on Bobby Moore. The most beautiful areas, to me, it's not everybody's cup of tea. My other half is not particularly fond of it, but I just love that wide open landscape and the broad horizons and so much sky and I love all the tours and there's a lot of stone circles and things like that up on Bobby Moore. So, yeah, for me, if I had to pick an area of Cornwall, it would either be the Penworth or up on Bobman Moore.

Michelle: I just think it's a real chance to connect with the Earth and the sea, the ocean. I mean, we're talking. It's just nature, isn't it? And being able to connect with it. And like you said, when you're in that open space, the sky above you, the ground beneath you, the crags, all of it. Again, just something very connective in that, I think.

Elizabeth Dale: Yeah, I think for me as well, Bob Minmore is just absolutely littered with prehistoric remains. Thousands of hut circles, Bronze Age hut circles there, and there's no footpaths on Bob Minmore. You literally just are free to sort of wander and you'll quite often just stumble across a group of hut circles together. And that, for me, is just an amazing connection to the past.

Michelle: Just wonderful history again, isn't it? Right on the doorstep. And again, Cornwall does seem to have just a proliferation of all of it. I can't think of many places across the UK, actually, where you do have such an array of different types of features, like different standing stones and all of these different things that we've been talking about. Literally. I mean, I suppose the only other place you can say is Wales. When you think about and compare how many castles that they have every 5 minutes, there's another different type of castle. It's almost like that. But to do with landscape features and these very old structures that are even older, like I said, there's just so many of them. It's incredible, the amount. It's beautiful. Yeah.

Elizabeth Dale: I think I read somewhere that there are more prehistoric remains per square mile in Cornwall and the Isles of City than there are anywhere else in the UK. They're all just squashed into our little peninsula, which is great for someone like me that just loves visiting them. I get a kick, really, out of finding the lesser known sites. There's plenty that are really easy to visit, like Merry Maiden Stone Circle, for example, or Lanyon Koit. They're right beside a road and you can literally hop out your car and others that take a lot more effort and you will often just have them all to yourself and get to soak up that atmosphere.

Michelle: I just think it's magical. I think you've done a wonderful job of really selling the beauty of Cornwall for anybody who is listening who has never been, which I can't imagine people would have at some point. And if they haven't, they're going to want to hop in their car and go away for the weekend, I think. Because it is. It's stunning. You can just get lost in the atmosphere, the landscape, the rich history. I mean, you can have an incredible experience every single day and have something completely different and it just doesn't stop.

Elizabeth Dale: That's really in a way, why? I started the blog because there's just so much to see in Cornwall. And I was getting quite frustrated, in a way, at the TV programs that I saw promoting my home that I really felt were missing so much. They would always focus on the same few places. You'd always go to St. Michael's Mountain, they'd always go to the, you know, and St. Ives. And as someone born and bred here, I just know there's just so much more to see. And I really felt that even local people were just missing know. And when I'm writing about them, I may have just visited them for the first time, but I really just wanted to just show the diversity that we have down here. The history is incredible. And Cornwall can sometimes feel, when you're living here, like, very cut off from the rest of the world, quite isolated. But when you actually start looking into our history, it just shows you how connected, even up till quite modern history. With the packet service coming and going from Falmouth, people from all over the world were arriving to these shores. I just love it. It's just so exciting for me to discover these stories, and then I get to share them.

Michelle: And your blog really is a treasure trove, as well as your podcast into all of those aspects, because no one is the same as something else you really are putting out there. Just that rich array that we've been talking about and uncovering stories that I think you're right. I think for most people, they wouldn't necessarily know about.

Elizabeth Dale: No.

Michelle: And that's so rewarding. I think there's something really powerful in trying to preserve that for future generations. Storytelling is such an important way of preserving heritage, cultural heritage, social history. All of these things that we've been speaking about, it tells us an incredible amount. Just as much as going and looking at a wonderful bit of architecture and who made it and what year and what was happening around it at the time that might have influenced the design. Stories tell us just as much. They are so rich in terms of what they share.

Elizabeth Dale: Yeah, 100%. And I write as much for local people as I do for visitors, because I was very aware that I wasn't taught any local history, any Cornish history. When I was growing up, I was completely oblivious to a lot of our heritage, and I knew that I wasn't the only one. So I write as much, actually, perhaps even more for Cornish people than I do for visitors. Because, as you say, I think it's so important that we preserve those stories, because if we lose them, then we're losing our heritage, and we're losing a little bit of ourselves. And when I post a new blog post, some of the stories, they get such a reaction from local people who add so much to my knowledge. And I quite often have to update a post because someone said, oh, well, my grandmother told me this, or when I was a kid, I heard that. So I just love that, because if I hadn't put that out there, I'd never have recorded that little piece, that little snippet, that little gem of a story.

Michelle: And that's the goosebumps on the back of your neck and on your arms type of moment, isn't it? Because it is oral storytelling at its best and preserving history at its best. Those are the things that would never make themselves known in any other way if not given an opportunity like that. But it's a fantastic, powerful medium to help preserve that and to collate and collaborate. And like we said, keep everything topical. And it's a conversation, and it becomes, again, just something very uniting and cohesive with people. It's a community thing, isn't it? The shared experience in the way that they always were in the past.

Elizabeth Dale: Yeah, exactly. Definitely. 100%.

Michelle: It's been so incredible to talk to you. Like, I could literally talk to you about every single one of the posts that I've ever read.

Elizabeth Dale: We'd be here a long time, I.

Michelle: Know, but it would be fabulous. We've definitely snacks thrown our way every so often.

Elizabeth Dale: Nice cup of tea, in and out.

Michelle: Yeah. The wind howling outside, the rain coming down. Let's just sit and have a natter about some good old Cornish tales.

Elizabeth Dale: And we haven't even started on ghost stories.

Michelle: I know. I just think anybody who has ever been interested in anything remotely like this when it comes to history, folklore, ghost to. You have to go and check out Elizabeth's blog, which is the Kernish, let's put my teeth. Cornish Bird blog. Cornish Bird blog. And I will make sure to put all of the details for that into the podcast and onto the website, as well as your podcast itself. Because like I said, it's just a treasure trave of ghost stories and folklore and everything. It's magical. It's truly, truly magical. People will just get lost in it, I think.

Elizabeth Dale: Oh, thanks, Michelle. That was a bit of a plug there, wasn't it?

Michelle: But it's so well deserved. I mean, eight years is not an easy kind of thing. That's a real labor of love. And I think it shows in the writing, it shows in your podcast. You just ooze Cornwall, and I think people connect with that. And again, I just think there's something very powerful about that. When you get the right person sharing those tales, people just want to hear and want to read, and I think that's what you've captured, really. And, yeah, I think if people haven't made their way over to you, then hopefully they do now, because they should.

Elizabeth Dale: Oh, thank you. That's very, very kind. Thank you ever so much.

Michelle: And I will say goodbye to everybody listening. Bye, everybody.

Elizabeth Dale: Thank you. Bye bye.