Serpents, Altar Stones, and Monasteries of Dunster : Haunting History, Mysterious Ghosts and Intriguing Folklore

Speaker A: Hi everyone and welcome back to Haunted History Chronicles. Before we introduce today's podcast or guest, if you like this podcast, please consider leaving a review. It costs nothing, but it helps share news of the podcast and guests I feature with others interested within the paranormal. It's a simple and easy way to help the podcast continue to grow and be a space for people to chat and come together. If you haven't already found us on the Haunted History Chronicle's website, Instagram, Facebook or Twitter, you can find links to all social media pages in any of the notes for an episode. Come and join us to get involved and gain access to additional blogs, news and updates. And now let's get started. Introducing today's episode. Joining me today is Bobby from Xtools, a company that specializes in ghostwalks historical tours and paranormal investigations established in the area of Dunster. Bobby has recently published his first book, dunster ghostwalk, a combination of history and paranormal that dives into the fascinating history where ancient folklore, historic battles, and gruesome executions intertwine. On every page, it threads together the past and the present. Bobby is here today to help uncover some of that historical past of Dunster with us and explore some of the paranormal legacy left behind. So let's say hello to our special guest. Hi Bobby. Thank you so much for joining me this evening.

Speaker B: Hi Michelle. Thank you very much for having me on.

Speaker A: I really appreciate the opportunity and especially as it's rather warm. So, you know, we're sat behind a microphone when we could be as sat outside enjoying an ice cream and some sunshine.

Speaker B: Yes, baking in the sun. It is rather warm like you say, but trying to make the most of it.

Speaker A: Yeah, we've gone by next week and we'll have snow.

Speaker B: It was raining last night, I think. I thought it was going to be a bit wet for a few days and then all of a sudden the sun's out again. So there we go.

Speaker A: Yeah. You can never predict what you're going to get, can you? Really?

Speaker B: Not in England? No.

Speaker A: So do you want to just start by telling us a little bit about yourself and your background and how you got into what you were doing? Really?

Speaker B: Yes. Well, my background is in history and archaeology. Essentially my degree is in in history, heritage and archaeology. I got that from Plymouth uni. I was actually working at Dunster castle while I completed my degree. I actually started my interest wanting to pursue my degree started with an interest in archaeology. I actually started with metal detecting and things like that, building up quite a collection. And it wasn't until doing my degree I realized my passion for history. So yeah, I ended up working at Duster Castle. Obviously I learned a lot about the area paranormal investigating. I've done for a number of years as well. And then last year with Halloween approaching and it's been in the back of my mind for quite a while. I'd really like to sort of do some historical walking tours of Dunster, just to try and spread some awareness of the history of the place. And, yeah, with Halloween approaching last year, it was a light bulb moment and I thought, what better way to combine two passions of mine, the history and the paranormal side, and do a Dumpster ghost walk? So, yeah, started X Tours last year with a Dunster Ghost Walk, which went really well, and we do a number of events in other places in Somerset now which have gone really well. Like I said, people really enjoy the combination of history and paranormal. So, yeah, it's working out.

Speaker A: I think something that you just said, well, several of the things you just said just really resonate because I think there's something about the paranormal as a means and a route into history. They are so intrinsically linked, I think, and connected in such a way that you can't help but as you start immersing yourself into the stories of these people and the locations, the events, the history that you're picking up, what you're learning from that account speaks so much, doesn't it, in terms of that period of time? And you can learn far more than possibly something that you would ever glean from reading a book, and that's coming from teacher. I just think there's something very immersive in that experience of being able to see somewhere, experience something. And a ghost talk, a ghost walk, a historical tour, anything of that nature, really is that kind of perfect avenue, that experience, to be able to take.

Speaker B: That on board, I think, like a sponge, yes, 100%. You touched on folklore and things like that just a moment ago, and a lot of people would say, well, folklore isn't necessarily real history, there's no proof that these things actually happened. But the fact of the matter is, a lot of the folklore you were here is very far fetched and nine times out of ten, it didn't happen. But I don't think that takes away from its value as a historical piece of information, because, like you was just saying, that still says so much about the people who lived during that period, about their mentalities and things like that.

Speaker A: Well, I think it speaks of kind of local history, belief systems, superstitions, that day to day experience of the everyday, ordinary person. And in many cases, they are stories and accounts that are rooted in something, whether it's some event where there's some kernel of truth, whether it's rooted in superstition and belief systems. But when you start to examine folklore, it does reveal a part of history that, again, I think when you look at historical reference books, you don't necessarily get that flavor, you get the information, but you're not necessarily seeing it or experiencing it from what life was like, what the person thought, felt. And I think folklore is one avenue to be able to kind of glean some of that, to really understand the person behind all of it, if that makes sense.

Speaker B: 100%, yeah. I think it gives you an insight into the imagination of not just an individual who wrote that story, but the people from that period in history. Whether that's related to the folklore stories related to an area or, as you know, some folklore stories, there's many different versions that come from many different areas in the whole of Britain.

Speaker A: We've obviously been chatting about you and your background, and one of the things that you have just put out there and just released is a book where you're really kind of drawing all of this together. And do you want to say a little bit about that and what people can expect if they purchase your book?

Speaker B: Yes, definitely. Well, thank you for popping that one in there. Like I said a moment ago, I realized after doing the ghost walks that people really enjoyed the combination of history and paranormal with an awareness of the amount of history that there is to see at Dunster, as many places, with castles and other historic things like that. A lot of the history in the area unfortunately, gets overlooked because to a certain element, it's understandable there's a huge castle there that's dominating the area. But, yeah, it is a shame for that history to just get completely overlooked. And one thing I really enjoy is actually spreading awareness of history that other people wouldn't otherwise known about. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that was part of wanting to get the book out there. And then there was obviously spreading awareness of the ghost stories because a lot of people that do come on my events, be completely honest with you, they do come generally for the paranormal side. A lot of people do. Thankfully, they're pleasantly surprised by the history. But yeah, with an awareness of how much people really enjoyed learning about ghost stories, I want to get them out there. A lot of the ghost stories that we generally know of are historical ghost stories. Some are even based on folklore. Another reason why I want to get the dance to Ghostwalk out there is because there's a lot of ghost stories from the area that I've just learned of, say, in the past year, that have come from people from the actual local area.

Speaker A: Putting them out there is actually so important because some of that is being lost. We don't necessarily know the stories of our past. We're not passing them down in the way that we used to.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: I think it is really important to know that element of local history, that ghost law, that folk law, and to perpetuate that by not letting them die, by sharing them, communicating them, whether it's through podcasts, whether it's through writing, whatever medium we can, people that consume stories, we need to keep talking about them. Otherwise they do just get lost to time, sadly.

Speaker B: Yeah, you're 100% correct there, because certain ghost items I've heard of around Dunster, who knows, there could have been ghost sites previous to the ones that I've heard seeing the same thing. But the thing is, because it's not recorded, there's no record to say that, you know what I mean? So it's like it leaves gaps in the record. Whereas if everybody recorded these sightings, if and when they happened, they would sometimes realize that actually a number of people are seeing the same thing. Which I think, again adds value to the ghost sighting.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And I also think as well that when you have that very much, that rich collection of evidence, it builds up that kind of bigger picture, doesn't it? You can start making connections in a way that you can't when something sits in isolation. And often these are stories that change and change subtly or change drastically. And being able to see that and track that again is really important, I think, because it enables you to see aspects of history and how it might play into some of those changes, but also to understand then what? Is out there and what is known or misunderstood about a location and a ghost story or a person that's involved in it and so on. And the more information you have, I think, the better armed you are then, when it comes to exploring the paranormal, because I've been on paranormal events where someone's misunderstood an aspect of history when it comes to the building or the particular era that they think might be connected with the ghost law. And you can sit there and you can scratch your head because you're thinking.

Speaker B: Something doesn't match up here, sort of thing.

Speaker A: We're not kind of making these connections. And the more you know, the more you're able to put out there 100% the rich experience, to be honest.

Speaker B: And it allows you to put things into context. There's one thing hearing of a ghost sighting, which is great, we all love to hear the stories, but unless that sighting has some kind of context to it, it doesn't have the same value as, for example, ghost sighting of a monk in the area of where, you know, that a priory once stood. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker A: Absolutely. And like I said, so much of this gets lost to time and our understanding of local history, groundroot history, gets lost in the same way. And so if people are immersing ourselves, immersing themselves in that via ghost law or folklore or the paranormal or history tools, great, because it's giving them that means of accessing that information again, isn't it? And again preserving it, which we're all very much in favor of, I think.

Speaker B: Yes, definitely. And that does seem to be the case. I think one of the things people take from my event is when I cover the event, obviously, I cover aspects of the history of the area that I feel like are very important to the area. Obviously, we're not going to go to dance the castle and not talk about the castle. But the thing is, I try to stay away from the sort of more commercialized and more romanticized stories and focus on stories that, like I said earlier, people otherwise wouldn't have known about. So whether that's using records or looking at records of social history and things like that, I think that gives us an ability to bring out a lot of these historical stories that, like you said, otherwise would have been lost because they're not being printed in the big commercial history books. And actually, it's a bit strange how it works because people tend to like the unknown history more. So you would expect there to be a lot more of it known, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Speaker A: No, I think it takes kind of being sparked into looking at it, first of all. And that usually comes from having some kind of an experience that lights somebody's eyes up and gets them interested in it, because, let's be honest, we're all very lacking in awareness. We can walk past a building that is just rich with history and so many buildings have stories to tell, but we walk past them totally oblivious because we see it every day. To us, it's normal. And it sometimes takes somebody to just stop you and give you that moment, to pause and to see it. And then suddenly your passion is there and you're away and you want to find out more.

Speaker B: Like you said, it opens your eyes and it gives you that hunger. Just based on that. What you said. Something that people have definitely taken from my walks is they've learned that when they're in a town or a village to look up, because like you said, they go about their day to day lives. They might be going to the town to do some shopping and all they're doing is walking through the street, going to their shop, getting what they need to and going home or going about their day. But actually, when you look up, you can appreciate the history of places so much more. And that's where a lot of the hidden history is. It amazes me the amount of stuff you can see if you just look up.

Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. You can see all kinds of incredible things, naughty bits of sculpture that some architect at some point or some craftsman has hidden away in the tiny crooks of a building. You can so much that is so revealing and so comical and informative that, again, just opens your eyes to those hidden elements of history, things that people would know about that would never get recorded in a book and taught in a school, but just speak volumes, don't they? They're so revealing.

Speaker B: They do, yeah. And I guess, like you were just saying a minute ago, it takes something to open your eyes. And I guess people like me and yourself, our eyes have been open. That's why we're looking up, looking for these things. And I hope that people that come on my event do take that from them and carry on looking for things. And it's given them that hunger to look for more.

Speaker A: It's something that I think once you start to be aware of it, that passion is there. You start to do it more and more because it is this kind of world, it's like stepping behind a curtain that you suddenly feel very privileged to be part of and you can have some brilliant observations, some things that everybody else is just walking past and missing. And suddenly you spot that and you've got that kind of internal conversation going in your head where you're chuckling at what you've seen or mesmerized by what you're looking at. Yeah, you're amazed like that whatever it is that's kind of really speaking to that emotion, it's there in spades, really. And like I said, you can have such a range of experiences, emotional experiences, when you start to notice details that, again, we just overlook.

Speaker B: For me, I always naturally look for these details. I think I've mentioned earlier, I'm always looking for the unknown. The thing is, when I find it, it's like a subconscious thing. I assume that everybody else already knows about it. So, for example, when I started to Dunster Ghostwalk, I started it and I had a feeling I knew quite a few things about the area that other people didn't know. But I thought, I'm going to have some locals on the walk. They're going to know it all. It amazed me that even locals would come on the walk and learn a lot about the area and even see things that they'd walked past so many times and were just completely unaware of. That was there.

Speaker A: Yeah. It's honestly surprising, though, what people miss. I don't know if I should say this with the podcast, but we have a church not too far from where I live and they have beautiful, beautiful wooden carvings and things inside. And when you look in the corner, there are these little cherubs and they're literally flushing their bottoms where they get rudeous. So I'm actually being quite polite here when I say that they're flashing their bottoms. The more you look, the more you see these very naughty, rude little cherubs doing all manner of things, some closed, some not closed. And it's a church. And that's the bit that you have to kind of kind of tie together. They are there in a church and it is basically just some craftsman who was playing around.

Speaker B: We've got Cleave Abbey Down, not too far away from myself, and they've got the same thing there, the wood carvings, and it's all lovely and very grand looking. And then in the corner, in fact, it's so small and far away from the eye, you can't actually make it out unless you get close to it. There's something quite rude there and they think that was the Carpenter's way of sort of letting those who had the money know that he wasn't too happy with them, sort of thing.

Speaker A: Well, they often weren't paid very well, were they? And sometimes they weren't paid at all. So this was a kind of means of kind of getting one back at an outlet for that because, again, most people don't notice it and it's going to be there for a very long time, if not forever. So here's their kind of leaving that behind for everyone to see if they take notice of it.

Speaker B: It's amazing to think, though, isn't it? All these years later, hundreds of years later. I bet he never thought that I would be looking up at it and having a laugh as well and wondering.

Speaker A: How it got there and what was.

Speaker B: The circumstances that led to you, mate?

Speaker A: Absolutely. So kind of before we get into more of the detail of Dunster and some of these buildings and the folklore and the Ghost Law, do you want to just give some of the setting for Dunster, if you like? Because it's an incredibly picturesque place, we're talking a medieval village here, but for many people who may be listening from outside of the United Kingdom, and even from within the United Kingdom, they may not have been there, they may not know much about this area and what it's like. So do you want to just give some of that kind of backdrop? If you like, yeah.

Speaker B: So firstly, I will just say, forgive me if I refer to it as a town. Obviously I've spent so much time researching it and historically it was a town, it was a very important market town. Now, obviously it does say on the sign as you enter Dunster, historic medieval village, but I like to still refer to it as a town. I know it's a bit naughty, but I try not to, but if it does slip out, just forgive me. Like you said, it's very historic place. I like to think it's one of the few remaining places in England that you can really feel like you step back in time. The history goes back thousands of years to prehistoric times. There's no evidence as such that there was a prehistoric settlement within Dunster, but there certainly was. Surrounding the area of Dunster, we've got prehistoric Hill fort of Black Bull Camp it's called, and then Bats Castle as well, which was an Iron Age hill fort just behind Dunster. So given that, and given the ancient burial grounds that can be found in the area, I would have thought there probably would have been people living in Dunster in the Iron Age. But the history of Dunster really begins in Saxon times. In fact, it's thought that's where Dunster gets his name. So it's recorded that there was a thane in the area of Dunster in the Saxon period and his name was Dunner Duna, and he established fortifications on the tour where the castle now sits, which was known as Dunner's Tour. So that's where we get Dunstur, dunst Tour sort of thing. And, yeah, like I say, in that period, you've got the Vikings harassing other Saxon settlements along the West Somerset coastline. So just up the road we've got Watch It, just to give an example of how successful the Vikings was. More coins that was minted in Watch It have actually been found in Nordic countries than has been found in England.

Speaker A: That's incredible. That kind of chunk of information, that is it's amazing. Wow.

Speaker B: I mean, I I love it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And what I find fascinating, fascinating about it is that the theories that a number of Dunkstra traditions, some that are still carried, carried out today, date back to the Saxon period. I mean, there's not many places in England that can claim that, is there? Not that I know of, no.

Speaker A: And again, coming back to what you were saying, those traditions, people often don't realize and recognize where they kind of started from, those origins. And again, they're so much part of the kind of the community they're just done over and over, they're replicated, but without that understanding. And again, sometimes it takes stripping it back to understand where they began, because, again, it speaks so much of the history of the place.

Speaker B: Really. It does, yeah. We were talking earlier about how certain folklore gives you an idea of the imaginations of the people that lived during that period. To give an example, out in the Bristol Channel, there's an estuary between Somerset and Wales. I'm not sure how well you know the area. There's a couple of islands out in the estuary and they're really mysterious islands. You look at them and personally, I can't help look at them and just with awe wondering what could have happened on the islands. But folklore that's been passed down over many centuries says how the islands was created from the bones of giants. So there was Vincent's, Lord of Avalon, and the giant of Gorham, who had a big epic battle, and the giant of Gorm was defeated and he fell into the Bristol Channel and his bones eventually turned into stone and became the islands of steepholm and flathome. Now, to the modern era, a lot of people would play that offers or hearsay, which obviously we know that those islands aren't made from bone, but it gives you an insight into the imaginations of the people from that time, doesn't it?

Speaker A: Absolutely. And I think it actually speaks to so many things, doesn't it? Because it speaks to people of importance, belief systems that are important, but also historical events. The fact that unrest fighting these types of things were so commonplace that they get weaved into their everyday stories, don't they? As to explanations for something, there's a.

Speaker B: Bit of a correlation to justice vincent, Lord of Avalon, would imply that he was the one who was sort of in power and the giant of Gorm, he was the one that was defeated. And the story sort of implies that it was beating the bad guy, so to speak.

Speaker A: And I think you touched on this earlier that so many of these stories, they're not the same, they're not carbon copies, but the fact that you get versions of them elsewhere, again, there's something about that isn't that in that you can have these stories that seem familiar, but at the same time have these differences. And again, what is that telling us? What's that kind of allowing us to explore when it comes to these historical periods and the people involved? I mean, again, you can just get so much from one story alone.

Speaker B: I think you can I guess people could interpret interpret that in different ways, but I think regardless of how you interpret the stories, there's still so much to gain from it. Even if somebody interprets it different to me, they've still gained value from that story. It might have allowed them to understand certain elements of it differently to how I did because of how we think about it. But we still got the value from that story that's been passed down over hundreds of years, which I think is just amazing.

Speaker A: Dunstro itself is very rich in some folks, and I know it's something that you kind of share as part of your talks and your walks and so on. Do you want to just tell us about some of the folklore that you kind of share with people that has, again, just some of these elements that we've been talking about?

Speaker B: Yeah, well, one of my favorite, I think it's because everybody can well, when somebody says the word King Arthur, I think everybody knows what you're talking about, or at least they've heard the name before. And I was amazed when I heard the story that potentially links Arthur to Dunster. So there was a saint called St. Karen Tok, and he was from South Wales. He was a saint. And what's really interesting about this is he actually lived in the period of history where we think Arthur came from. And he does talk about Arthur in west Somerset. So source that I found said how he was looking for a new place to carry out his missionary work. He decided to throw his altar into the sea, believing that it would lead him to a suitable new place. Anyway, following the altar with his boat, he lost it and come across the West Somerset coast where he met somebody called what was referred to as King Cato and a King Arthur. And King Arthur is referred to as being from Din Brathel, which is an area that modern historians have identified as Dunster. Karen talks about a fierce serpent that was ravaging the area of Carhampton, which Carhampton actually gets its name from st. Karen Dock. Interestingly. And yes, apparently Arthur actually found the ultra stone, it washed up on the coastline and he decided he was going to use it as a table. But everything that he put up on the table in brackets was being thrown off sometime past and he heard of current tops plight and he asked what to get rid of the serpent that was ravaging the area, car Hampton. So he said to the saint that you can have your ulter stone back. I just want you to rid me of that serpent in the neighboring town. And he was able to defeat them and he got his ultra stone back and he set up a monastery in Carhampton and that's how it got its name. Karana talk.

Speaker A: And again, just coming back to what you were just saying. The fact that these have origins and things that people maybe aren't aware of, whether it's something like that, the name of the location that you have, this wonderful rich folklore that begins to explain something, the beginning of something possibly. Or like you were talking about earlier, the beginning, the explanation for why you have these islands there's, these connections with all of it. And again, when you start looking at it and unpicking it unpicking that, it's like opening a gift, isn't it? To see what it's revealing or what it's giving you. It's magical.

Speaker B: It really is.

Speaker A: So do you have any other favorite aspects of folklore that you love sharing as part of your guided about?

Speaker B: I like talking about Mother Leaky. She's quite interesting. What I like about her is that we know she was actually a real person. So a lot of ghost stories become across, you can't actually pin them down to a real person. But we know that Mother Leaky definitely lived. She lived in the area of minehead in the 16 hundreds and she was very kind and caring person in life. But she apparently told her friends that regardless of the fact she was kind in life, she was going to come back and halt them all when she died. Anyway, she died in minehead in 1634, on the 5 November, I believe it was. And surprise, surprise, a week later, she started turning up in the local area and even in the church. But one story I really find quite museum regarding Mother Leaky comes from a doctor. He was walking home from a patient one evening. He was walking across some fields and he bumped into a lady and he got chat into a lady. Now the lady was actually the ghost of Mrs. Leaky, but at this point in time, he didn't realize that it was a ghost. So they carried on their chat as they walked along the field and they got to a style. The doctor stopped and held Mother Leaky across and they carried on walking. Across the next field. And it was at this point the doctor started to realize that her face was expressionless, her mouth wasn't moving and her eyes wasn't moving as she was talking. They're aware of the fact that something wasn't quite right. Doctor tried to create some distance between him and Mother Leaky. Anyway, he reached another style and failed to offer her hand over again. Obviously he's trying to keep some distance between them. She didn't take kindly to this and she jumped over the style behind him and actually kicked him in a private to which he done a runner.

Speaker A: That's quite a story.

Speaker B: He's quite renowned in the area of minehead. Apparently there's a lot of fishermen in the area and apparently a lot of them still blame it to this day when the seas get particularly bad.

Speaker A: Isn't it funny how there are a lot of those connections made by sailors when it comes to poor fishing and poor weather and so on, whether they're very superstitious and they do make those connections, don't they? Avidly with Ghost Law and all manner of other folklore, they do.

Speaker B: But what's really interesting with Mother Leaky, so she had three children who lived in the area and her son Alexander was a successful mariner and he moved cargo backwards and forwards between minehead and Ireland. He believed that it was actually his own mum, Mrs. Leakey, that caused a storm that resulted in him becoming bankrupt because he lost all of his goods in the sea and she was even blamed for smothering her own grandchild. Oh, gosh. So, like I say, she was quite renowned in the area and considering she was a nice person in life, she clearly had a grudge making up following death.

Speaker A: Yeah, it is funny how a lot of Ghost Law, when you examine the person, when there is a very real connection, when you can trace it historically to someone or an event, you know, person an event. Yeah, it it is funny how it comes through in Ghost law because you have examples where it's a life cut short. And here are stories where it kind of fills in those gaps of what might have been. What could have been? Carrying on their story, allowing them to live beyond their death because they shouldn't have been taken so soon. Then you do have these characters who clearly and obviously were very important to the community and I would imagine Mrs. Leakey was important or known in the community. And so here you've got her kind of carrying that on, but in a way, contrary to how she was in life, almost this very mischievous opposite to her actual existence. What does that try and suggest in terms of why that was carried on?

Speaker B: Maybe just that's a very interesting thought, isn't it? Like you say, why portray her in such a bad light when obviously she was I'm assuming she was renowned in the community as a nice person the source that says she was a kind and caring person, I believe is a contemporary source. So it's strange, like you say, that they would remember somebody in a bad way when they was deemed to be kind and caring in life. But like you said, maybe it's just a case of remembering that person regardless.

Speaker A: Of giving them a reason to be remembered.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But nobody's going to remember ghost story about a lovely, friendly woman, are they, who just comes back and continues to be lovely. But if you give a mischievous ghost story that gets remembered, it gets kind of connected with things. But it could be that. But then also there's possibly maybe there's something that was never uncovered, maybe there was something that she was tied to, maybe that comes through in that.

Speaker B: Yeah. And it's interesting because maybe her son, when he blamed her for his downfall, his bankruptcy, maybe it was because in his mind, knowing his mum had passed recently, it wouldn't be anyone else, do you know what I mean? It was like, oh, that's my mum coming back. Maybe not in the way he wanted.

Speaker A: Her to, but not very happy with him for something that he was doing as mothers do.

Speaker B: Yeah, maybe actually he was feeling guilty about something he'd done wrong and he felt like, yeah, that's an interesting thought.

Speaker A: He was being chastised. But again, having those, when you start thinking about it, it makes you wonder, doesn't it? It makes you stop and pause and start adding your own elements to these stories. And that's, I think, the beauty of folklore and the beauty of Ghost law, that you start inserting yourself into it and they get embellished, this is how they get changed. People wonder and they start asking questions and bringing something to it.

Speaker B: Again, it gets added and taken away and you get different stories incorporated into each other because, as you know, there's sometimes numerous different versions of the same.

Speaker A: Story, whether that's folklore and everybody's going to have a version of it, aren't they?

Speaker B: Yeah, the version you know or the version you believe just purely depends on the version you've come across in the past, who you've heard it being told.

Speaker A: I think that can change depending on geography, the narrator, time frame, there's so many things that influence that, isn't there? And again, it's your storytelling changes in mentality.

Speaker B: Some people can just be adamant that their way is correct and then all of a sudden, actually, they look at it differently and they think, oh, actually, sometimes you've got to be open minded to different possibilities, I think.

Speaker A: But isn't there something really hair raising when you can trace a story like that to the person, the actual figure that this was based upon, or who you think it might be? Because you don't always have that hard evidence. No, you don't, but have a feeling of who it might be or who it could be. Because it could just be like the person who lives next door to you. To be able to make those types of connections with the everyday person and see them almost like a real person, someone who existed their flesh and bone. And you get that coming through in the ghost, or these feel real in the telling of them. And so you really do have that hair on the back of your neck moment, because you can start to picture them, you can visualize them in your head and what they would have been like.

Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. The way I read ghost stories is I'm always aware of the fact that actually people believe this. And I'm not saying I believe everything I come across, but when I read certain stories that you might think may be unlikely, I still am aware of the fact that actually, it doesn't matter if you think it's unlikely. People believed this back in the day. It was true to them.

Speaker A: Again, it's knowing what were the circumstances that made it believable? Was it an event? Is it things that they have experienced strange phenomena that they couldn't explain and so they've created this story. So, again, it brings up all of these questions, doesn't it, as to how it started, were they experiencing things themselves? And the story has filled in that gap as to why something was happening in the local community, whether it's someone experiencing doors banging or all the kinds of things that people think about when they think about ghost stories. What was happening, where was the root of it, where did it all start? Just kind of moving on a little bit, or not moving on, but kind of stepping to the side a little bit and looking at something else. You mentioned that obviously in the area of Dunster, that you have these traditions that exist now that go back to things thousands of years ago. Are there any particular traditions that exist today that are, you would say, really interesting and reflect some of that history that have been kind of carried out?

Speaker B: Definitely. Well, the most well known is the hobby horse. Have you ever heard of the hobby horse? The reason I asked you this is because I know there's variations in different places and it's not the thing you ride in a nursery.

Speaker A: No. Although I have made some hobby horses for children at my school many moons ago, we had races with them, which was great fun, but I've heard different versions of them. So I'm kind of interested as to which version Dunster has, because, like I said, I have heard different ones. And there's something special about seeing things that match and then things that don't match between them. It's a fascinating story. It's a fascinating tradition.

Speaker B: Yes, it is. I mean, I was reading about the they do one at Pasta in Cornwall and theirs is referred to as the OBIOS.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's the one that I do.

Speaker B: Yeah, which is obviously very similar, but again, different. But to give you an idea of what it looks like, essentially it looks like a boat, but then it's wearing a mask and the mask is sort of a grotesque figure and there's a long tail going behind it. So without the long tail, you would be forgiven for assuming that it was just supposed to be a boat. So they do it on Mayday each year and they start at minehead at 05:00 in the morning. I believe they have the drums beating, probably had a few beers as well. And they start at minehead, go up to Dunster and basically go in all the neighboring areas. So, as you can imagine, some love it, some don't like it so much because they get sick of being woken up every year, the crack of dawn by this crazy horse going down the road. But, no, it's a really interesting tradition. It's thought that the origins might date back to the Saxon period. And the story goes that I mentioned earlier how the Vikings was harassing the west Somerset coast during this period in the period of Saxon. Apparently on one occasion they've seen the Vikings approach in the area of Dumpster, and one Saxon soldier, rather than preparing for battle with his sword and shield, as you might expect, he decided he was going to get this old rickety boat and he was going to put it on his back and sort of chase after the Vikings. And apparently it had a grotesque animal figure on the front as well. And apparently it looked so strange and bizarre to the Vikings that actually had the desired effect and they done a runner. And that's where we get the story of the hobby horse. Some do say that actually it's probably just based on more traditional Mayday celebrations, but I kind of like the story with this tax and soldier, so that's what I stick with.

Speaker A: It's so rich, isn't it? I mean, it's fascinating to have both. I think it is. All of these different connections. But again, history is a bit of a spider web, I always think. There are links and connections to so many different things and they reveal so much. And we have so many of these traditions that can be linked to seasons, to times of the year when it comes to harvest things from a bygone age that we maybe just don't think about, aren't aware of nowadays.

Speaker B: We were talking about folklore, but actually the traditions have the same value as a folklore in terms of showing you an insight into people's minds back then, because, like you were just saying, they are related to that sort of thing. And generally they would have been trying to ensure a good harvest or fertility and things like that. That's obviously what was important to people back then and they was willing to do whatever it took to ensure that.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And we have these. But we don't necessarily know the roots and the origins of them. We have the hallmark versions of them. Like Halloween, for example. We have what we know, where we think it comes from, but actually, like so much of history, often it goes back much further and it's rooted in something else. When you start to go down those rabbit holes and start looking at it's fascinating.

Speaker B: The thing is with things like Halloween, it's so commercialized. Like you say you can go down a rabbit hole, you're trying to find the origins and you think you found it, but then because it's such an historical event, you find another source that suggested something entirely different than another rabbit hole.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. But again, when you see it played out on local level, when you see some of these traditions, some of these things that are rooted in the history of your local area, making those links, making those connections is brilliant, isn't it? Because you're being connected with a moment in history, you're being connected with a person, you're being connected with an event, a possible event. This soldier, possibly, who's done this thing and strapped this boat on his back and forging it into this scenario with this Viking to try and scare him.

Speaker B: Off to his mates, but actually thought, oh, it actually worked. Because I'm always aware of the fact that although it could have been more than 1000 years ago, but they were still human beings.

Speaker A: Yeah, completely. And again, I think this is the avenue to enable us to see them as human beings because they become much more lifelike. We see ourselves in it. And this is where I do think, looking at folklore, looking at traditions, looking at all of these different things that we've been talking about ghost law, whatever it is, the architecture of a building, the craftsmanship, when we can have these moments, we're able to step through that door and see ourselves from our past. We can make these connections with them because we're not that different. We think of ourselves as superior because we are advanced hundreds. We're not, we're the same.

Speaker B: We just got phones and interior talking about the hobby horse. And you were saying how making that link to an historical story is really great. But I'm sure you, like myself, you can appreciate it even if you don't have that link. Something that's been carried out for whatever period of time it is, regardless of any story that you think might have come from, you can still appreciate it for what it is as a historical tradition.

Speaker A: Sometimes it doesn't came from no, because again, I think it gives you that element of wonder, doesn't it? Those questions. And we are naturally nosy human beings who are inquisitive. And so when we have something that just sparks that interest, that gives us that little bit of sense of magic, of intrigue, of mystery, of mysticism, whatever it is, because it covers that full gambit, isn't it? Again, it doesn't matter. If we don't have any context, if there is no record that it's attached to, if there's no person that it's attached to, it symbolizes something. And I think that's, yeah, no, you're right.

Speaker B: And these traditions grow up in certain areas, even if other places have variations of it. Like you said, it's part of that area's history, regardless of where it came from.

Speaker A: Buildings, geography, place to place, whatever it is, whether it's you going from one county to another county, another street to another street, another building to another building, everything has a story. There is something behind almost every nook and cranny. When you start looking, when you have a very old historic location or a very old historic area, town, village, whatever it is, because it can be all of that, can't you do have stories and places everywhere, dotted everywhere. And they are, like you mentioned earlier, they're often the overlooked, unknown elements because people will be attracted and drawn in by the castle that's on the hill, the thing that draws people in, because it's that wonderful tourist attraction. They're beautiful. I love castles. But there is this history underneath that that is connected with the landscape, that's connected with that castle, that's connected with each other. It's a very symbiotic relationship, I think. And some of that can be overlooked. And again, this is the beauty of what you're doing because you're putting a spotlight and shining a light on some of that, really. And.

Speaker B: With building up an awareness of the history of the area and being aware of how much there is there, I feel like it's kind of my duty to make sure other people are aware of that. You were just saying about the castle and the history of the town. A lot of it gets overlooked. A lot of people think that the history of Dunster is the history of the castle. But actually, I would say it's the other way around. And without the town of Dunster, there wouldn't be a dumpster castle. But I think that's probably the same for most places with the castle, they relied on the local populace to keep them going.

Speaker A: That only happens when you have it thriving and all of these other things happening, isn't it? And again, this is the bit that you can start peeling away some of those layers to reveal that. And they can reveal so much, whether it's war, whether it's unrest, whether it's something very specific to a building, people, an event. They have so much to tell, so much history to reveal, and personal stories and accounts. And again, it can be in something that people overlook. And one of the areas that I know that you speak about is a bridge. And the history that it's connected to is one that you would think that most people are aware of and what happened to the individuals involved. But this particular bridge take that bit of history out. This is a bridge that, again, do people even know how it was used, why it was there, what its purpose was in terms of travel, in terms of trade, in terms of carrying horses across it? Do they have that kind of sense of understanding of it? To begin with? Probably not to know that this was used in this manner, but then to take it to the other extreme of here's, what happened here, this is the story that it reveals. This is something that took place, again, just so revealing. And I don't know if you want to share that with people listening because it is one of those I think that probably there's a version of this somewhere near you. And are you aware of it? Possibly not. It's one of those moments, yeah, exactly.

Speaker B: Where you were saying a moment ago about the history of the town and how in order for it to be sustained for such a long period of time, it takes a combination of many different elements the people, the markets, the maritime trade and things like that. And what's really interesting about Gallup's Bridge is that actually it involved so much that Dunster relied on going back. It was constructed in the 14 hundreds. It is a pack horse bridge which would allow people to take goods from Dunster to neighboring Carhampton. But what's really interesting about that is when you look at old maps from Dunster so sorry, I should mention before I go into this that Dunster actually had its own harbor at one stage known as Dunster Haven. So this is, again, a thing that gets massively overlooked. Not that many people are aware of Dunster Haven and that would have functioned in Dunster up until the 17 hundreds. And when you look at old maps, you've got the river Avil, which flows down from Dunster. And old maps show how the course of the river would have gone from Gallups Bridge all the way down to the sea to the area where Dunster Haven was. Now, there's a theory that they could have unloaded goods from the larger ships onto the smaller boats. And the river Avil being connected to the Seven Estery being an estuary at high tide, you could have actually bought boats all the way up to that river and up to the area of Gallups Bridge, which is essentially at the base of the castle, which is obviously a big thing. And when you walk down into that area now, you see the quaint distill cottages and the packhorse bridge. And as you were saying a moment ago, you would never, ever look at that area and imagine that boats would have come up here with sailors coming off of them all of those years ago. But then we go a bit later in their history and where it gets its name. So Gallups Bridge, Gallups comes from the gallows. We know that the gallows was on the other side of Gallows Bridge, somewhere on Gallows Hill. And yeah, I think you mentioned about a few people who would have been marched over that bridge. Was that the guys from the Mama Rebellion that you was referring to?

Speaker A: Yeah, I was alluding to it without.

Speaker B: Trying to give it away. Yeah, exactly. So I usually talk about those portholes when we get to the Forester's Arm. So the Forester's Arm is a really interesting building on the other side of Dunso on exiting from the east side of Dunstan, going out towards Xmore. It's a really interesting building. It was actually originally January. I'm not sure if you know about Shanbury or what they would have produced, but during the 1617 hundreds, it's recorded how he produced candles there. So he would have produced candles and also he produced soap. But he was convicted at one point because he allowed his effluent run into the river. So obviously the lords of the manor wasn't allowing that and he got prosecuted for that. And he actually turned the pub into no, sorry. He turned the building into an l House and called it the Bridge End In. Now, I've never come across anyone else with this theory before, but the bridge end in actually, what was the bridge end in? Leads down a road which is now called Park Street. Previously it was Water Street, and in the 1200s it was recorded as Gallows Road. So I don't know if when he called it the bridge end in, he was referring to the bridge where people would have met their end. But anyway, we were talking about the guys from the Monroe Rebellion. So, yeah, it's recorded how in 1685, three men from Dunster, there was Henry Lackwell, John Geens and William Sully, who was all hanged at the gallows for their partner, Monbellion. And they would have been obviously taken over Galaxy's Bridge. There's a really interesting quote that I come across, a contemporary quote, and it says how the Mournful processing passed down West Street. These men were known to all in this village as they were surrounded by weeping relatives and friends. After the hangings came the gruesome dismemberment of the corpses and the burning of their entrails. Their limbs were torn asunder salted and boiled in pitch. This to preserve them and their sundry parts nailed along the village high street and on the trees along the King's highways to subdue and terrorize all those who opposed his most gracious Majesty. Every time I walk down Gallows, what's now? Park Street, I can't help but think about them being led down that road and over the bridge with their relatives surrounding them. And what a traumatic experience it must have been, especially ending the way it did. As I've just described.

Speaker A: We are about to celebrate hitting our 100th episode of Haunted History Chronicles on the last Friday of April 2023, to say thank you for the months of May, June and July. There are going to be daily paranormal podcasts available to enjoy on all tiers over on Patreon, as well as the usual additional items available over there. Signing up now will gain you access to these, as well as all previous archived content. For as little as one pound, you could be getting hundreds of podcasts to enjoy and more, and know that you're contributing and helping the podcast to put out another 100 episodes. You can find the link in the Episode Description Notes as well as on the Haunted History Chronicles website, along with other simple and great ways to support the podcast directly. It's all truly very much appreciated. And now let's head back to the podcast. When you don't have that history, when you don't know it's just a bridge, it's just a place to work, you're seeing a hill in the distance, but you don't necessarily know what was near that area, what it was used for. But actually, again, these are things that existed in various places across our landscape and this went on all of the time. And something like the Monmouth rebellion and other rebellions were such significance and the people involved had to be made an example of. And that the punishment that was exacted on them in front of everybody in such a public manner, both in terms of the execution but then in the treatment of the corpse and how they were displayed as a public. Reminder going forward the depth of hardship and suffering that would have brought for their weeping families who've had to witness this and then continue to witness it. To be part of that, it would have been so traumatizing in a way that we can't necessarily understand until we take a moment just to think about it and think about what that would have been like. And I think, again, there's nothing more powerful than having that moment to pause and to understand just that story alone.

Speaker B: Yes, exactly. It was Edward Hobbes, who was the Sheriff of Somerset during that time. And I never forget how he explained his part in the barbaric punishments. And he explained, I'm trying to remember this right word for word now. He said as Somerset Sheriff, he had to make sure that the execution of the prisoners was properly carried out and that no detail could be overlooked. He ordered that a cauldron should be provided for boiling their heads and their quarters. He mentioned how some people said that the barbaric, the punishments that he dished out were barbaric. And he just pointed out that he was just doing his job, which he was.

Speaker A: He was just doing his job. It was his duty to see these things through. These were things coming directly from the king. These were things that you had a duty to enforce. You were the law of the land, if you like, and this was an act considered treasonous. It was a means of showing that to everybody by doing the most barbaric things possible that you can humanly think of because they deserved it and people needed to know this is what could happen to you if you're not living the life that your king, your country expects of you.

Speaker B: That's basically it exactly because if you're against a king, like you said, you class and a heretic and if you're a heretic, you're against God. And I guess it's trying to change people's mentalities entirely.

Speaker A: I guess this was a time I think where community was everything. You were part knew everybody in a way that I don't think we do today in quite the same manner. We are much more distanced from our neighbors, even the person that we might live right next door to. But back then you knew everybody, you would have known the people in your street, you would have known the people on the other street, you would have seen each other at church, you would have seen each other all the time and traded with them all of these things. And so something like this when I say it would have been such a kind of a scar on the community that's really what it was another thing being so public, it would have been something everybody felt either shame, sadness, loss, anger, all of these kind of human emotions would have played out in what they saw.

Speaker B: And I always take into account that this was within limit living memory of the end of the English Civil War. As I'm sure you're aware, the English Civil War, you've got families against families after that the last thing they would have wanted was all this traumatic experience of their families being executed and things like that. So I always try and always aware the fact that mom of rebellion was in living memory of this English Civil War. And I think sometimes the two are very much separated when actually a lot of the people that was involved in the mom of rebellion, whether you was directly involved or was affected in the aftermath, you still would have been thinking about all those years previous.

Speaker A: We underestimate the turbulence of so much of this history, turbulence between branches of houses, families, I mean it played out all the time, didn't it? And this kind of unrest, unfortunately where it really was seen was on the everyday person. It was them that was typically uprooted, it was them that typically had their lives upturned because you could be in favor one day on the right side of the current king and the following day you were suddenly the traitor. That's how quickly tides could turn and you could fall out of favor and you didn't have power, you didn't have politics, you didn't have money. Everyday person for whom there was less significance and so your whole life could be shifted by the politics and the happenings of a court and a king and these people that you never saw. And that's how we. Have to think about it. And again, like I said, we don't necessarily have that same understanding because, well, we don't think tends to be more stable.

Speaker B: I think you mentioned something about it earlier, but I think our brains are unable to comprehend the mentalities of people back then. I think things would have been that different from what you were saying. You're talking about how people at the bottom would have been severely affected and they would have been swapping sides and things like that. So it's quite interesting. Dunster Castle during the English Civil War. So they swapped sides a bit at the beginning of the English Civil War. Sorry, I should point out it was Deluxe who held the castle at this point in time. And at the beginning of the English Civil War, they was parliamentarian and eventually the Royalists took the castle. But what's interesting is who held the castle for the Royalists was Francis Wyndham, who was actually a cousin of Thomas Luttrell. So it affected those in terms of family right at the top as well, at least in this area. I'm sure it did in many world.

Speaker A: And this is where it could become really quite difficult because you could have family against family. And again, that could play out all the way through down to the common person, whereby your brother might be on the wrong side of who you support based on geography. Could be just something as simple as that. Something like that could separate what you were doing and the side that you were on compared to someone else who you were close kin to.

Speaker B: Yeah, a really interesting story I come across. I mentioned how the castle was held by the luxury and then it was held by Francis Wyndham. Well, when Robert Blake was sent in by the Parliamentarians to retake dunst the castle, it's recorded how he got Francis Wyndham's mum and he actually placed her in front of the cannons that was facing the castle and he threatened to blow her to pieces if he didn't surrender. But in my mind, I'm thinking, hold on a minute. If Thomas Luttrell is a cousin of Francis Wyndham, doesn't that mean that Francis Wyndham is his mum is related to Thomas Luttrell? So surely both of them would have had something to say about the fact he was about to blow up their poor old lady. Obviously not, but she turned around and told him, Carry on, regardless. Don't you worry about me. So fair play to her.

Speaker A: Oh, gosh, she sounds like a character.

Speaker B: There's a lot of very impressive ladies in Ducks, actually.

Speaker A: Yeah, but like we've been saying, some of this history, some of these stories, some of these people can play out on this in an area that could be just as something as simple as a hill, a bridge. It can be a building, it could be an old pub, it could be the old market square. It can be hidden in so many different places. And again, this is the bit that you're I said earlier. This is the stuff that you are kind of uncovering and sharing with people. And I know that you love and are so passionate about doing that. And I suppose something to ask you is if there is a particular building, an area that when you get to that moment on your walk that you love to regale people with. I'm sure there is probably lots.

Speaker B: It's very hard because I genuinely have a passion for dancer as a whole, but I'm trying to think I couldn't say a favorite, but I could maybe give you a couple of so I.

Speaker A: Really like the it's like trying to say the favorite chocolate, isn't it? In the chocolate box? It's really too difficult. Rather nice.

Speaker B: Like a box of milk trays. Yeah, one would definitely be the luxury the luxury arms, which is a pub in dumpster. If you do manage to visit dumpster, it's one of the first old buildings that you'll see at the top of the high street. It's just opposite the yarn market that's got a really intriguing history. It was first built in the 14 hundreds, and it was built as a house for the abbots of cleave abbey, which is not far away. Like I said, it dates from the 14 hundreds. It was built as the house originally, but by the 16 hundreds, it was an l house, and it was called to ship in. Now, I mentioned dunster haven earlier, which was dunstan's harbor. It's thought that it was called to ship in after the harbor there. Interestingly, in more recent years, they've actually uncovered carvings in some of the wood panels of ships. So it's really amazing to sit in that pub, look at those carvings, and try and imagine the guy that would have sat there drawing that from his memory of seeing ships down at the harbor. And I find that fascinating. But another reason I like it as well is because it's one of the more haunted build, or reputed to be one of the more haunted buildings of dumpster. So a number of people have recorded seeing the figure of a monk behind the bar. There's also, apparently the ghost of a dog there. So a number of people have while sat enjoying a meal, they've actually felt smick brush past their leg. And apparently these people have looked down to see the dog and say hello, to see that there's nothing there. And they've told an employee there has actually told me on one occasion, somebody went up to the bar and said, oh, where's the dog gone? That's just pressed past my leg, that they were so convinced that there was a dog there. A story comes from one room there in particular, and so somebody who's worked there for some time, she was telling me this story. And basically there's a gentleman who would stay there quite often with his daughter. There was regulars to the establishment and one night after staying there, they was in a reception booking into their next booking out and they was going to book again for the next time. And when they was asked if they would like to stay in the same room and the gentleman replied yes, his daughter looked up and said, oh, but Daddy, what about the little girl? And she went on to explain that the ghost of a young girl came and visited her in the night. Apparently they become good friends and had a good old chat.

Speaker A: Was this room 28?

Speaker B: It wasn't. I hesitate to say the name of the room because I worry that they're going to tell me off.

Speaker A: I only say this because I know somebody who stayed in room 28 at this precise establishment and they had different strange things that they loved telling me about or rather didn't love telling me about when they were. Because if you like ghosts and you have an interest, if something happens, you're the person that they come and tell. But yeah, they regaled me with it, with trepidation, shall we say. It was not something that they were expecting, having not known that element of kind of history attached to. Well, let's just say that they kept being woken up in the night hearing things in their room and couldn't quite understand what it was, but knew it wasn't them, it wasn't coming from any neighboring room. And if they turned on their light from where they were, they would see and find things in different spots to where they were, like something having been dropped on the floor. Keys, coins, small things, not things that not something that's going to make a huge noise, but enough for you to notice and hear. Especially dead of night when it's quiet. But it would be something that they would instantly be able to hone in on, enough to get their attention, keep them awake, not let them sleep, but not something so disturbing like a huge crash that would alert so many people. It was almost intentional to get their attention. They were somewhat perturbed. And I should say that this is someone who does not believe in this at all. They are diehard skeptics always add value to it. It does, because they could not explain it. They knew that they had put that kind of set of coins, their change, in that particular place. It was by the phone or by that notepad or whatever it was. And for then it to be somewhere completely different.

Speaker B: Yeah, on our events we use different devices and things like that and obviously it's much easier, especially for somebody who's skeptical, to just play off any responses they're getting on K two devices or other electrical devices. But when they're using those dowsing rods and we ask a question and they move, you can tell. The cogs are wording in their brain they're trying to come up with an explanation for it, because I think it's human nature. As soon as you have an experience you can't explain, you straightway to try and come up with an explanation for it. But what I love is when you get to that point and they think, okay, I've got no explanation for this, something is going on.

Speaker A: And that's when you just see the look, don't you? Because we do like to fill in the gap. We like to not have things left open. We like to answer things. Yeah. And when you can't when every kind of situation that you're being faced with does not have something logical that you can attach to, that be it. Well, that was a gust of wind. It was this, it was that. When you have nothing logical to explain something, you're left with something else. And something else is that difference between.

Speaker B: Oh, it could have been this and oh, that was real. There's a sort of line you cross.

Speaker A: Absolutely. But, you know, it's it's such a fascinating building. I mean, you mentioned this history with obviously with the harbor. I kind of understood that it was also a location where Admiral Blake is reported to have possibly stayed at some point. And that might be why is this connection of why the name had the name that it did with it being called the ship?

Speaker B: It was called the ship before the English Civil War started. So it was called the old Ship Ship in before Blake came to the area. But as you rightly said, during the English Civil War, blake did come, and there's a contemporary source, and it's referred to as a stronghold. So it was being used at that point in time as somewhat as a barracks. Interestingly, if you go out of the back of the luxury arms now, you see the old pottery kiln, which is a really interesting building. In fact, it's thought to be the oldest of its kind, still standing. But opposite there, you'll see a sort of slightly raised platform. Now, it's thought that this platform is where Blake would have had his artillery lined up. And when you see the view from that platform, it makes sense because you're looking directly at the castle.

Speaker A: Wow. Little things like that, little nuggets that you aren't going to glean in a book, are you? But you've got military things playing out. You can see tactics. You can almost imagine it can't you can see people huddles together.

Speaker B: The Yarn Market not sure if you've ever been, obviously the old marketplace, and you can actually see the scars from the Civil War, as I call it. One of the rafters up in the top of the Yarn Market actually has a cannibal hole in it. So, yes, as you can imagine, when you look at the castle behind and you look at this hole and you think, wow, okay, that's real something. A cannibal flew from the castle and flew through the wood here. I find that amazing.

Speaker A: Yeah, it is truly incredible because it's not something that we typically see being played out in our back gardens, is it? But this is something that people really did live through and experience, and you would have had people hiding away, injured, being cared for. I mean, so many different things that we can't imagine now. Yeah.

Speaker B: One other story, just while we're on subject to the Civil War, so it's recorded how as a gentleman who was leading some Royalist forces and he came over to Dunster and shot from the cannon, actually hit some of his soldiers and completely obliterated a couple of his soldiers. And he said how he was going to make sure he gets that person. He was going to hang their limbs from the castle battermans for the ravens. But once he realized that his siege of the castle was not going to come of anything, he disappeared.

Speaker A: Kind of a bit like Game of Thrones, but it is a kind of bloodthirsty bit of history that yeah, you just can't imagine playing out for everybody in their everyday lives.

Speaker B: But it is definitely can't imagine that happening in quaint little old Dunks there.

Speaker A: No, not these picturesque little villages with their beautiful masonry and their thatched cottages.

Speaker B: And we talked about Gallups Bridge earlier. One, that was a place where sailors would have been arriving essentially from the harbor after traveling all around the world. And two, it was the area where people would have gone and been led to the gallows. Now, if you go there today, it's the quietest, most quaint little corner of Dunks that you can find. And unless you knew about this, you would never imagine that sort of thing happened there.

Speaker A: But it would have been deliberate and intentional for it to be that way, because it was, you know, because it was this kind of hive of activity with people coming in. What better place than to highlight these kind of criminals for what they've done, to make this example of them?

Speaker B: I've never actually made that connection. I've never thought of it like that and thought gallows would have been situated in this area because of people coming in off of the ships. I didn't make that connection.

Speaker A: Because they're obviously chosen, aren't they, for their vantage point, whether it's the height, so that they can be visible for miles around, or they're chosen with that intent of where you see them as you're approaching the village, the town where they can be seen and when they're going to be noticed. Because it was there as the example. And it's that simple. And not just the gallows, but often, sadly, the remains were left there. So that, again, you had this visible reminder that could be there for months and months, if not years, like John.

Speaker B: Wolf, which is an amazing story. We'd have to do that on the future one, if you fancy it.

Speaker A: Oh, gosh, yeah. You don't have to ask me twice when it comes to history. Someone said to me the other day, your eyes light up when you get to talk about this. And I'm like, yeah, it does, because it should do. This is our connection with our past, and we have so much wonderful history, so much rich stories that are literally there like a book to be opened.

Speaker B: It's amazing how much you can find. And sometimes you come across things and you just think, why is this not known by everybody?

Speaker A: And whether it's a ghost story, whether it's a folklore, whether it's something, you know, just that routine is just it's such a powerful medium to be able to explore this side of our past, I think. And like so many places across our landscape, dunster is just an example of this rich, rich kind of tapestry of history, of folklore, of ghost law that we have woven into the seams of our buildings, of our geography. Of the stories that have survived, the records that are kept, the things that have been passed down, and being able to uncover that there's something beautiful about that. Because it's so revealing, isn't it? The everyday person.

Speaker B: And it was nice you referred to it as a tapestry, because I often refer to it as a tapestry because I think it covers so much and there's so much there. I think for a lot of people, history has to be tangible, but there's so much history in the area that isn't tangible, but is still massively important and still part of that tapestry, which I think helps appreciate the history of the area a bit more.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And it's being able to tap into this, isn't it? And to explore it. And I think once you start, you just have that bug let go of. Really?

Speaker B: I think we both got the bug.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, completely. But I think there's so much more. I mean, this is just the beginning of kind of what you have and what you share with people. There's so many buildings, there's so many different locations. There's so many stories.

Speaker B: There is. I put the book together to try and give people an opportunity to do the Dunster ghostwall, but at the same time, I feel like I'm not doing Dunster justice because I'm not covering the whole history. But I'm thinking, I have to accept the fact I'm not writing a history book of dance. I'm just doing the Dunster ghostwall. That can come later. But there's just so much there to cover that I don't know. And I'm also aware of the fact that it doesn't matter how much I learn, there's always going to be more for me to learn, doesn't matter how much I'll learn about something. And I think I've learned everything there is to do with that. And then you learn about a whole new aspect of the history of Dunster that you're completely unaware of.

Speaker A: But this is because I think, again, the beauty of history and the way that it was so often recorded or not recorded and squirreled away and hidden away, it does mean that history can be uncovered in some of the most unlikeliest of places. It could be a map that is retrieved from somebody's attic. It could be a document that's uncovered somewhere in a dusty part of a library. This isn't history that's on show. It's not out there. It's not kind of being looked at. It's there to be found. And it takes people finding it. It takes people being interested. And again, this is where something like a ghost tour, a historical tour, a book, a podcast, it can excite someone enough to go look and who they might be. The person that finds that next little gem, that account that's been recorded, some document, some map, something, and what that tells, it's the next piece in the story, really, isn't it?

Speaker B: It is, yeah. I guess I am lucky in some regards that I used to work at the Castle, which gave me a bit more of an insight. And obviously, the fact that I was doing my degree while I was working there allowed me to study not just the Castle, but the area of Dunster for a number of essays and things like that. But, yeah, like you're saying, sometimes you'll come across something and it gives you an opportunity to learn a whole different aspect of history. So something I learned with Dunster, which I thought was really interesting, obviously, it's known for the yarn market. Yarn market would imply that it's an area that was well known for its yarn, which it was known for Dunster Yarn. But actually, records show through the late 16 hundreds and early 17 hundreds and beyond, you've got the Morcom family recorded. Now, the morcoms was cord weiners, which was a shoemaker. And there's records and receipts that show how they used to make shoes for the servants of Dunster Castle and things like that. And actually, the records that we've got that talk about the shoemaking industry in Dunster shows that during this period, it easily equaled, if not overrun, that of the yarn trade, which is, again, it's completely overlooked. But what I love about that is I can show people exactly where Thomas Morcom lived. You can see his house and things like that. All these little things add to it. That's an aspect of the history of Dunsa that you wouldn't know otherwise.

Speaker A: So just to finish, literally, this must be an encyclopedia at this point in.

Speaker B: Terms of trouble, isn't it? We've been chatting for quite a while, and I can't help but be aware of all the things we haven't covered.

Speaker A: I know, but it is one of those things that you really could just keep going and keep going and keep going if allowed. And again, that's just the well, maybe.

Speaker B: We'D have to do a part two.

Speaker A: The beauty of it. Yeah, part two and part three. And again, in your book, you're probably going to need part two. Part three.

Speaker B: Yeah, 2.2.

Speaker A: Yeah. But do you have a, I don't know, a favorite ghost story, a favorite nugget of kind of the paranormal tie to something? Again, it's hard to pick a favorite, but do you have one that you like and enjoy sharing first?

Speaker B: Can I tell you, too?

Speaker A: Yeah, you can tell us, too.

Speaker B: So I've got to tell you this one. It's the same ghost site, and from a couple of people we covered the luxury arms, and then from the luxury arms, if you follow the back road to have dumped around to the tide barn and the duffcot. Now, that's a really interesting area where the kitchen gardens now are in the top right corner of the first kitchen garden. If you're stood there, you actually stood in an area where the benedictine priory was at one point in time. So it's recorded how the demons of dunster castle, that was a family that held dunster castle prior to the luxury taking it, they gifted a lot of land to bath priory, and sister cell prior was established at Dunster, and they built it onto the already existing church here. Anyway, as you head towards the tithe barn, there you see the rear entrance of the yarn market hotel. I've spoke to somebody who grew up in the area, and she knows a news agent who worked in Dunstan for several decades, and he told her on numerous occasions he seen the figure of a monk appear out of the back of the yard market hotel area and drift on towards the tithe barn. I spoke to another person, and she told me how she's seen the figure of a monk appear out of the tithe barn area and drift towards priory green, which is where the kitchen garden area is. And I spoke to another lady who was completely unrelated, who told me she's seen a monk in this area, and she's also spoke to the monk. So I mentioned about the fact that the priory was here. Numerous people have seen monks in the area over the years, and I think that adds huge value, not just the numerous sightings from different people, but also the fact that you're seeing monks in the area where monks actually would have lived.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's not random. There's this real connection with a location where this is where they would have been.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: And whenever you have confirmation with people who are unknown to each other, who are seeing and reporting similar things at different times, different decades, different ages, different generations, again, there's some weight to that. I think that warrants investigation, certainly.

Speaker B: Yeah, there has to be something to it. What's interesting about that area is mentioned we use different devices on our walks. We actually do the estees method as well, where we use headphones and sensory deprivation and it's quite common for my name to come through in that area, which I find quite funny. I was just going to mention one other one to you. So I spoke to a lady who used to live in the area of what's called Mill Gardens. She lived in a bungalow down in that area and she told me how when her son was younger, she used to hear him talking to herself quite a lot. Anyway, one day she questioned him about it and he turned around and told her that he wasn't talking to herself, he was talking to his friend Luca. Now, Luca is a spirit of a young child that resides in the area of Dunster. And as we heard earlier, the situation with the luxury arms, the child of Luca actually become friends with this boy that lived there. Now, that obviously in itself is just a ghost story, but what's really interesting about that is on our event, I believe we've actually made communication with Luca. So we was using a K two device electromagnetic range detector, and it was picking up on a high amount of energy. And I said, as I always do, if there's someone here with us, could you please move away and stop the lights lighting up so we know that you're here with us. And the lights disappeared. And I thought, wow, hopefully we're going to get some in here. And I said, okay, if you're here with us, just to confirm, please light up the device for us and we can use that to communicate with you. As I said that, it shot up to the red. It couldn't get any higher, and for about ten minutes then we proceeded to have a conversation with young Luca. It was an amazing experience and I'll never forget it. And actually, there was a lady who experienced it with me and she left a review on the Dunstagos Facebook page talking about that experience.

Speaker A: Yeah, when you have something like that, it's not something you forget, is there? And again, I think this is where.

Speaker B: If you I got goosebumps now, actually, just thinking about it.

Speaker A: But it is when you have those moments that you can't explain or that just really have you standing, scratching your head, wondering what's going on, or if you have something that feels very intellectual, very real in a way.

Speaker B: You know, what's really strange about it is I think the reason I got into paranormal and got to the point where I'm at now is because I tend to pick up on things, and I know a lot of people say that, but I just had a feeling that it was like a feeling of a connection. And I felt like he needed help from somebody who needed to give him guidance. Do you know what I mean? And I was, like, trying to give him guidance. But, yeah, that was a really interesting experience.

Speaker A: Well, it is. I just think it's a form of connection, isn't it? And again, I think there's something very powerful in that, in being able to try and explore the past and the people and feel like you are part of their story and then part of yours. There's something powerful in that, in the sense that they don't disappear as a result. Do you know what I mean? That person who left that review is going to remember the story of that person. And so that person, therefore, at least for her, is going to be something that stays with her for her lifetime. And there's something beautiful and powerful and connective in that element alone, if nothing else. If someone doesn't believe, and I firmly believe, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but there's something beautiful in connecting with that story, that person, that experience, that means at least something doesn't die, something doesn't disappear, it lives on in us.

Speaker B: And it's funny you say that, because actually, that experience, I'd never met the lady before in my life, but that experience actually connected us and she's done other events with me and I would consider her a friend now. And I think it was that experience that connected us, which is strange, really, isn't it?

Speaker A: It is things like that that ties all of us. And I suppose it comes back to what we've been saying all the way through this talking. When we find a connection, be it through architecture, through a story, through a bit of folklore, that's the connection to our past, to the people of our ancestors, our generational ancestors, whatever it is, that's that connection to that. And again, there's something powerful in that that we just don't forget. It stays with us. If we make that connection, it's there, it's a link and it's indelible.

Speaker B: It's nice, isn't it?

Speaker A: It is. Honestly, I could listen to you forever, I think. So you are definitely going to have to come back.

Speaker B: I'll happily come back. Yeah, no problem at all.

Speaker A: Honestly, it's been so lovely to talk to you and I highly recommend people coming and finding you on the website. I'll make sure that we get all of your links so that people can easily find your Facebook page information about how to get onto a tour, obviously, how to get your book. We'll make sure all of that goes on the website as well as in the podcast description notes, so people can find out more about Dunn Store or pay a visit, hopefully, and make some of these connections.

Speaker B: We got the historical walking tours, daytime tours at the moment, and then in October, we're starting the Dumpster Ghost Walk again. So, yeah, if you want to learn even more, then be sure to join us.

Speaker A: And I would say look for things like this where you live too. If Dunster isn't near to you, look for places near to you, because you're going to have someone like Bobby who does something like. This, who shares some of this wonderful history that you can experience, too, maybe a little bit closer to home. Whether you live in Scotland, whether you live in France, wherever you're listening, I'm sure there is somewhere like this that you could go and have an experience like this.

Speaker B: A lot of people say to me when they come on my vents, oh, we didn't know what to expect. Well, just go for it. People support people in your local area. Try and find somebody who has a passion for what they're doing. Because speaking from experience, myself, I love what I do so much because it allows me to spread that awareness. And I really enjoy seeing happiness coming from people who have enjoyed learning more about an area that I'm passionate about. And I'm sure that other people who try and do the same sort of thing as me will be equally appreciative.

Speaker A: Definitely. Honestly. Thank you so much.

Speaker B: Thank you for having me on. I really enjoyed it.

Speaker A: I'll say goodbye to everybody listening. Bye, everybody.

Speaker B: Bye, everyone.