Shadows of the Past: Exploring Craig Y Nos Castle's Ghostly Whispers

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Welcome to Haunted History Chronicles, the podcast where we unravel the mysteries of the past, one ghostly tale at a time.

I'm your host, Michelle, and I'm thrilled to be your guide on this eerie journey through the pages of history.

2:42

Picture this a realm where the supernatural intertwines with the annals of time, where the echoes of the past reverberate through haunted corridors and forgotten landscapes.

That's the realm we invite you to explore with us.

Each episode will unearth stories, long buried secrets, dark folklore, tales of the macabre, and discuss parapsychology topics from ancient legends to more recent enigmas.

3:12

We're delving deep into locations and accounts all around the globe, with guests joining me along the way.

But this podcast is also about building a community of curious minds like you.

Join the podcast on social media, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram to share your own ghostly encounters, theories, and historical curiosities.

3:37

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So whether you're a history buff with a taste for the supernatural or a paranormal enthusiast with a thirst for knowledge, Haunted History Chronicles is your passport to the other side.

3:57

Get ready for a ride through the corridors of time where history and the supernatural converge, because every ghost has a story and every story has a history.

And now, let's introduce today's podcast or guest Welcome to another episode of Haunted History Chronicles.

4:22

Today we embark on a journey to Craginos Castle, where the whispers of the past linger in the shadows and the spirits of a bygone era await to tell their tales.

Nestled halfway between Swansea and Brecon is a stunning Gothic mansion which looks as though it has leapt straight off the page of a romantic fairy tale book.

4:45

Once Upon a time, it's grounds with the estate of celebrated Italian opera diva Adelina Patty, who became one of the world's most famous and highly rewarded entertainers during her lifetime.

Between 1843 and 1919, her talent and worldwide fame was gained from the quality of her voice and ability to perform vocal gymnastics without effort.

5:10

In between tours, she would recharge her energy and entertain her many friends at Craginos Castle.

Once coined as the second most celebrated woman in the world in 1900, only second to Queen Victoria, she is today something of an enigma.

5:28

Her talents have largely been forgotten since all who once flocked to hear her voice in person are no longer alive.

Although she is still respected by opera lovers.

Behind its enchanting facade lies a history steeped in mystery and the echoes of 1 celebrated diva Adelina Patty, whose voice enchanted the world from 1843 to 1919 in the quiet corridors of Kraganos Castle.

5:57

Adelina Patty's spirit is still reported to Rome, her melodies haunting the very air she once graced.

Amidst the upper corridors and wards of this former TB hospital, the echoes of her performances still resonate, as if the walls themselves yearn for her return.

6:16

This castle, with its rich and varied history, holds more than memories of the illustrious owner.

It is a sanctuary for restless souls, whispering secrets of centuries past from the boards of the private Opera House where Adelina once entertained European heads of state, where, if you listen closely, you may hear her voice in quiet whispers, mingling with the echoes of time to the Cellars beneath the theatre, where stagehands once toiled in darkness, the world of the paranormal awaits, eager to ensnare those who dare to seek its secrets.

6:56

Ghost stories in the castle abound, from the curse of the Overbeck family to the tragic tale of the Powells, whose misfortunes echo through the ages with the loss of three of his children and other family members.

Whilst building the house from the breakfast room where bad energy lingers, to the slab room where Adelina was laid to rest after her embalming, and was later transformed into a space for nursing children with tuberculosis.

7:24

From the sounds of babies and children to reports of a soldier as well as a mysterious female figure, the spirits of the castle make their presence felt in every shadow and whisper.

And in Room 36, where an invisible door once beckoned Richard Felix during a visit for Most Haunted, it is here the ghostly apparition of Adelina herself is said to wander, and for whom gave Richard Felix a restless night's sleep when he sighted her sitting on the end of his bed.

7:55

History and ghost law often intertwine.

Locations have stories in every corner and nook.

It is through exploring a location, stories that we can see the threads that tie the past and the present, that can shape communities and continue to bring intrigue and wonder through their ghostly whispers.

8:15

Join me as we journey into the heart of Kraganos to understand the varied histories and characters of the castle.

And what stories it has to share.

Good evening, Jeremy.

8:31

Thank you so much for joining me this evening.

Thank you.

My pleasure.

I hope we can give some interesting information to people who need to know more at Kraganos.

I can't wait to be honest to get into this discussion because I think it's it's such a fascinating place.

8:50

It's got real unique history and characters attached to it and I'm just so appreciative of your time this evening in sharing some of that insight and and passion really that you've got.

Before we dive into some of that his history of the location, do you want to maybe show a little bit about yourself and and what your role is at the castle?

9:13

Yes, well, certainly not too much to say really about myself.

I'm a member of staff at Kraganos.

I've been working at the Castle for a number of years and I suppose as a result of that I can find my way around the old place and it's amazing how it grows on you and and of course it's history and being the former home of that operatic superstar Adelina Patty and what she did there is is wonderful and quite unique.

9:53

And of course it's my job or one of my jobs really is to conduct the the history tours that we do there regularly where people are invited to come along.

And if you're staying there and you're welcome to come and join me for an hour or two as we walk around the castle.

10:11

And as we move about, we we, we sort of find more about this, this wonderful place we have here.

And it's it's fascinating history.

I mean it's it's a place with real character and aspects to it that you don't often see in in locations let alone in in castles.

10:34

And and again I think that speaks to some of the very intriguing history and characters like Adelina, Patty and her role when it comes to the castle.

Before we kind of start with that, because that's such an interesting part of the the history of the Castle, Should we go back a little bit further in terms of the early ownership and telling us more about Captain Rhys Davis, Powell and and the Powell family and their contribution to the to the early history of the castles?

11:04

Yes, certainly.

OK.

Well, if we go back to the early days, we're talking about 1840 thereabouts when Captain Royce Davis Powell decide to build his country house on the site.

11:22

As we know today is Gregor Lawes.

In his day it was known as Bryn Mellon.

His country house and his family were there.

He became a county magistrate and also a High Sheriff and he he was known for holding his he called conducting his business as a magistrate at Brin Mellon itself.

11:53

Apparently he was a very stern character and for the persons he was sentencing, they they knew they hadn't been treated too, too leniently.

I think Captain Powell was also joined by another gentleman, Mr. Thomas Williams.

12:10

He was also a magistrate and he would join in there for sessions and they they must have been quite a pair, I would imagine, when they were working together at Brinmelin.

But unfortunately there is a very sort of it was a very sad time for the Powell family because Captain Powell, he lost his son and his daughter and also his wife to colour and the sort of diseases that were around that time and he himself.

12:52

He passed away in 1862, leaving his elder sister, sorry, his elder daughter and his other son who was also tragically killed in a rioting accident in about I think 18/18/75 or something like that.

13:15

Sarah married Captain Alloway and they lived there for a few years until eventually it was sold so that the background to the the Powell family is is not a happy one really.

13:33

And in fact due to all that sorrow and sadness many of the local people considered it to be the house itself to be cursed.

There is some connection in that is apparently the the Powell family somewhere back in the history was related to the another family and they were noted for having connections with the slave trade in the West Indies.

14:02

And it was the Overbeck family and they were known to be from from Cape Town and their business was in the slave trade between the West Indies and into Europe.

14:19

But that's just probably hearsay.

But many people thought that would be.

It was quite true, we think, that one of the cousins to Captain Powell was expecting to have some of his inheritance, but of course it was.

14:42

It didn't happen that way at all really.

I think when Captain Alloway died, the surviving daughter, Jade Sarah Jane Powell, they they lived there, as I said for a few years and then she was, she was.

15:01

She passed away in about 1878 and then the house was purchased by the Morgan family and who lived there for a number of years, Morgan, Morgan, they they also didn't enjoy a very happy time.

15:19

But unfortunately in 1878 along came Adelina Patty and purchased the castle and sort of made it into what we see today, extended it quite substantially and it was, it changed into a place of music, globe and romance for the whole period that she was there.

15:49

For the 41 years in total, she was there and the place was absolutely transformed.

But that that's just a brief sort of outline of the house as it was known initially as Bryn Mellon and Captain Christ Davis Powell, and also obviously followed by the Morgan family.

16:13

But I think it's interesting to understand that, because I think we can look at wonderful locations and maybe not realise that they've had origins that started a little bit more humble.

These might be estates that were very different a few, 100 years ago, that many additions and changes might have been made to some of these castles and and large Manor houses and so on.

16:40

And and I think it's important to realise that, but also to realise that they've been used for so many different things.

I mean you mentioned obviously how court matters were held and you know his role as a magistrate was was something that he did within his home, within his man house.

17:01

And again, I think it's, I think it's part of that evolution and the history of the location to really understand the different purposes and the evolutions that it's gone through.

Because that's what makes some of these locations true magical that they've been so many different things at different points of time through those different ownerships.

17:19

And and likewise to understand how a family's fortune and the home that they live in you know goes through these these peaks and troughs and families sadly could go through real real kind of moments of despair and and terrible tragedy because of the circumstances of the day with with very serious illnesses loss of fortune.

17:45

There were so many things that could blight a family that could completely change the landscape of some of these wonderful locations.

Again, it's just part of the backdrop of of the history of these magical places.

Yes, it's quite interesting, isn't it really?

And what a change from that early period to the time of Adelina Patty.

18:06

Such a character and I think you hit it.

I think you hit the kind of the nose on the head when you said just this complete change of fortune that it it's a it's a location that was transformed into music and light and love and laughter and all of these things, but also the landscape of of how she changed the property.

18:25

I mean she had such an indelible impact on the castle.

It it's it's really quite remarkable.

And I suppose that the obvious question to start off with is for anybody that is unaware of of who Adelina Patty is and that kind of impact that she had.

18:43

How she transformed the castle once she purchased it and developed the estate is maybe just sharing something about her, her life, why she was so famous and and what she kind of did for the castle in terms of transforming it and developing the estate further.

19:03

Yes, it's it's absolutely amazing.

The I mean not only the castle, but what she did, her influence and how she supported the local community.

She was, she was greatly loved by the local people.

19:20

She was very generous and warm character.

She she performed fundraising concerts locally and as far as Swansea and and Brecon she was, she was.

There's no question she was dearly loved by the local community and and supported them in any way she could.

19:41

And of course she provided employment for for many of the local people in the vicinity.

Which again, I just think it is part of that character of of her story, but also then her, her mark that she's left not only on the castle but on the community because.

20:02

She came in at a time when it was very much needed.

And and like I said, the the changes and the additions that she's made and the contributions she's made, I think why the castle really is in the position that it is in, you know, the why it stood the test of time and endured and and has become, you know, a place where people really are intrigued to go and visit and find out more and discover more.

20:28

And I don't know if you want to kind of take us through some of those those kind of contributions, the architectural contributions, the changes that she made in terms of additions to the north and the South, wings, the clock tower, the theatre, the Conservatory, all of these things that were added in to reflect her personal taste and style, which I'm sure as a tour guide, you must just get goosebumps taking people round and sharing some of those with people.

20:58

Of course I I mentioned just earlier on that Adalina Patty arrived here in 18/18/78 and she at that time she would have been 35 years of age.

21:15

But of course when she arrived here she was an international superstar, an opera superstar, travelled throughout Europe, the USA and some South American countries.

She even travelled as far as Saint Petersburg and she performed for people like the czars and presidents and royalty throughout Europe.

21:35

Her big breakthrough was when she came over to the UK when in I believe it was.

She was 18 years of age I think when she came in 1861.

That's right, 1861.

21:53

She she appeared at Covent Garden and was an overnight sensation and became the darling of the the aristocracy and royalty.

She became great friends of Queen Victoria and of course was known to the Prince of Wales and she, she really was a superstar.

22:15

And we can only imagine that that one day she was travelling down here in Swansea, which obviously is about, you know, 1820 miles down the valley.

And we we think that she was probably, of course Swansea at that time was a huge place for its industry, which was really based on the iron and steel, the copper and the tin works.

22:44

And there were some really wealthy people in the area.

And one of those was the the Vivian family and they were really sort of great patrons to the arts.

23:00

In fact, today the Vivian Art Gallery is still there in Swansea today, which is well worth a visit if you're in Swansea.

However, we we think that she was probably visiting Swansea and obviously decided to take a a trip in her carriage, probably up to Brecon.

23:19

And situated halfway between Swansea and Brecon is of course Kraganos.

Well, Bryn Million as it would be at that time, which was obviously for sale and looking at the sort of Alpine sort of type landscape and the tranquillity, she fell in love with the place and decided to make her home here.

23:44

And from then on she named the place Kraganos, which is Rock of the night apparently, and that's how it was.

And it is said that she felt that a day not spent here, it was a day lost.

24:02

So it just goes to sort of prove how how much in love she was with the locality and what she did here at Craig and Norse over the 4041 years she was here.

So we have this sort of super rich, this superstar arriving at at Brynbellyn.

24:26

If you come into the court the courtyard today and you look up at the castle from the fountain on the front, you will see the there's a change in the in the stonework.

The original sort of grinmel in house is sort of distinguished by the the the grey stonework which is probably from the quarries up on the hillside behind in in Penn Wilt.

24:57

When Adelina came along she extended the the North and South wings and it's a different coloured stone.

It's a sort of has a red shade to it, more of a red sandstone type, which is typical of what can be found up closer to Brecon.

25:15

But this, this meant that we had the new North and South wings, the theatre itself which was opened in.

I think the theatre was opened in 18/18/91 and by this time she was I think probably around 48 years of age.

25:37

By the time that opened she was here 13 years building and extending the place until the the actual theatre itself was opened at that time.

But of course added to that is the the beautiful Conservatory which was when the current owner arrived here in about oh what was that 99 two thousand.

26:03

The Conservatory was was derelict it was there was only there was very much little of it left.

Fortunately enough for the owner to copy what was there and it's the Conservatory was rebuilt and it is now basically exactly as it was in in Adelina's day and is very popular with our visitors.

26:27

And of course it's a very popular venue for for weddings.

Now in fact we're one of the premier wedding venues in South Wales because of the the architecture and the the facilities there and the views at the rear overlooking the Pennwilt Mountain and of course we have the River TOWIE going through the grounds.

26:50

Next door now is the the Brecon sort of National Park and that was basically Adelina's back garden and consisting of about 40 acres of pine trees and rhododendrons and so on, which at the right time of the year is just absolutely stunning.

27:09

I think the thing to remember is putting aside the the the theatre itself, which is absolutely fantastic, it's it's a real time capsule.

It's it's virtually on touch since Adeline's Day and has some very unique features.

27:24

But I mean, Adeline was here, as I said, for 41 years, and we have to remember that this, this was not a country estate that had been handed down over generations from one to another.

27:40

This was something she did entirely herself, with her own wealth over a period of 40 odd years, which is absolutely incredible, really.

Well, I think it speaks to something of her character because you know, for a woman of her, of that time to do that is no small undertaking.

27:57

And like you mentioned, you know, this wasn't something handed to her.

It was something she purchased with her own money and then continued to fund and to expand and carry out all the plans that she did and the love that she poured into the building and the grounds.

28:15

And you know, I think that speaks to her character, but also this real drive, this real passion and love and care that she had for the estate.

And I think you see that in in every aspect in terms of the building and the and the grounds and just that kind of continued love that she had in pouring what she did into it is just astounding.

28:41

And I think you see in every aspect in terms of the name, in terms of the detail, I mean it's it's, it is almost like stepping into a piece of opera, you know, So it's a piece of art.

And I think you can see the notes that she carries through the style and the kind of the drama that she brings to it based on obviously her own personal background.

29:06

I think he's going to see that flair coming through, which again, I think speaks to her and her character.

Yes, yes indeed.

I mean the IT is as I, as I mentioned the the period that Adelina was here was.

29:22

I mean you have the you can see and feel you know the love the history the music, the Victorian Gothic architecture.

It's it all sort of builds into this, this, this wonderful place that we see today It it really is a time capsule.

29:41

The theatre itself, which of course the castle is a Grade 2 listed building.

I think the theatre is a grade one listed building and it's it's it's such a a a lovely thing Adelina sort of obviously had been travelled and and and performed in all the leading opera houses.

30:01

You know, La Scala, Milan, our own Covent Gardens, Relayed theatre, Broadway, USA, all and and and theatres throughout Europe.

But she put together what she thought she wanted.

30:17

I think it probably has little sort of hints from the Scar Milan and perhaps the Drury Lane theatre with its its Corinthian columns and the the exquisite sort of scroll work of pastoring and gold, the gild gild colour, gold leaf and so on that they used in those days.

30:43

And it's just amazing that it's it's still in the condition that it is.

The backstage is probably one of the best surviving examples of 19th century sort of backstage sort of scenery and so on.

They're badly sort of deteriorated because of their age, of course, but to see them still there as they were, and the gallery at the back where the household staff would raise and lower the scenery.

31:10

And also below the floor is the on the floor is of the stage, there's the orchestra pit, which is still there, which I think housed about 20 musicians or something like that.

31:26

And uniquely, the floor can be raised and lowered.

It can be raised from the auditorium position for the performances, for the opera and so on.

And it can be raised to level with the top of the orchestra pit and becomes a dance floor, obviously the idea being that Adelina could perform for her guests and high-ranking friends and socialites.

31:54

They would be then entertained in the function rooms upstairs and while they were away the staff would raise the floor and when they returned to the theatre it was a dance floor so that they could dance the night away and enjoy themselves.

It's just it's quite incredible really and it still works, typical of Victorian engineering of that age.

32:18

Yeah, built to last.

Whereas if you buy any kind of modern technology, you know, it's lifespan is about three years today, isn't it?

It's just it speaks volumes.

Yes, indeed, of course.

32:34

I mean Adelina herself, I mean going back to Bryn Mellon, I mean Captain Powell we think actually sort of lived here from 1843 onwards. 1843 was the Adelina was born in Madrid, her parents were Italian and both opera singers performers.

32:55

So from a very early age she was just inductorated with with music and opera and in a very early age she could recite pieces from famous operas.

I think at a very early age they realised that Adelina was something special, that she had this, obviously this special voice and I think that she, when she was four years old, they decided to move to the USA, to America and hopefully make their fortune.

33:30

And of course Adelina did.

I mean, by the time she was 16 she was singing on Broadway and so on and earning good money, doing concerts and so on.

She was 18 when she came over to Covent Garden, as I mentioned before, and I mean from then on, I mean she was just, she became a superstar and toured Europe and the USA and so on.

33:56

It's said that she, she did a tour of South America I think and she earned about something like 70,000 lbs, which was incredible sums of money in those days.

But it it just gives an indication of how much of A superstar she was and how wealthy that she became.

34:19

And yet, despite all of that glamour and travel and going to all these exotic places with incredible theatres, what she, I think really enjoyed and and loved putting her time into was precisely what we've we've spoken about building and constructing and designing this very intimate and exclusive space that was her little bit of of kind of heaven, if you like, in the sense that he was here was somewhere just for her and those that she wanted to bring in to entertain, you know, this private space with such rich, wonderful character and atmosphere.

35:03

Taking in all the notes that I think you mentioned, some of them, taking in the notes that she'd appreciated in some of these locations and just creating her own space that matched those influences, those styles that she liked in in a place where she knew she was going to enjoy entertaining for pleasure as well.

35:22

Yes indeed.

It's just fascinating.

It is of course, she she had three husbands.

The first husband, the the Marquis de Carre.

She married in, I think 1869.

35:41

He was accurately to Napoleon the Third and I think Adelina thought that this was a good match, but unfortunately he was he he, he was very discreet about his affairs that were obviously quite well known.

35:59

Adelina being having being very religious of the Catholic faith, she she divorced eventually got a divorce, which was very difficult to do in those days and particularly with the Catholic Church.

36:16

But eventually she married again in a she married Nicolini in 1886 and I think the period with Nicolini up until he died in about 1898.

36:37

This was the really golden years here at Kragenhorse.

Nicolini was a tenor.

He was part of her entourage when she toured Europe and so on.

And it's a love story.

They fell in love and spent many happy years here together.

36:54

He he loved his hunting and shooting.

Here of course we had the boating lake which is still in the Country Park today and the large lake over the back sort of was was made, I think the river was diverted to make this lake for Nicolini to do his fishing and the pine trees were planted by the head gardener and all this is still there to be seen today.

37:23

But Nicolini was much loved by the staff as well.

Apparently he was very approachable and a very nice chap apparently, and then quite a handsome fellow too.

But unfortunately he he had some sort of chest complaint in later years and he he passed away not at Kragenhorse.

37:45

I think Adeline had sent him over to Europe for where the the weather is better, hoping it may improve his condition, but sadly eventually he he was lost to her in 1898.

Within within 12 months or so, she married her third husband, Baron Ross Cederstrom.

38:08

He was a Swedish nobleman and he was sort of about 30 years old by this time.

Adelina was 56, so there was quite an age gap between them.

But of course, Adelina became Baroness Cedar Strom, and they lived together here, Craig and us, until she passed away in 1919.

38:33

You know, it's fantastic to realise that she really did spend the rest of her life in in a property because you know as we mentioned so many, so many families that are attached to properties.

How the tides change.

38:49

Sadly they get, you know, they often end up having these stories, don't they?

Where they where they don't get to see out their days in the place that they love and they poured all of their heart into.

But it's part of almost this love story and and some of the attraction of of Craganos that she did spend the rest of her life really just in the place that she loved.

39:12

She did.

As I mentioned before, she was often heard to say that a day not spent at Craganos to her was a day lost, and the love and affection that she had from her staff was was incredible.

39:28

But she was.

She was very good to them.

She was very generous, very kind person.

If anyone was ill, they were taken care of and stayed at the castle.

If they lived sort of in the villages she would visit with flowers and food and if they were a member of staff and they were of retirement age and had nowhere to go, then they stayed at the castle.

39:55

She was very, very generous in in that respect and loved all the more for it.

Obviously she had some amazing members of staff.

She had this, she used, went on her travels, she used to come across these special people and she would recruit them.

40:13

I think, I think the.

She found a chef when she was touring Ireland and said she tasted some of the most wonderful food and the next thing we know the the chef, whoever he was, I can't remember his name at the moment, but the next thing he's working Craganos.

40:33

And of course the gardener, the head gardener who was Con Hibbett.

He was recruited from Chatsworth House.

He was a member of the gardening staff at Chatsworth House and he performed miracles.

Here he they grew all their own produce.

40:53

They had greenhouses and grew fruit and you know, they had the melon pits.

And he he planted all these wonderful pine trees and shrubs and things, which I said now is the the Country Park next door.

She had a Conservatory which was filled with tropical plants and also a winter garden, the huge winter garden with two fountains, tropical plants.

41:19

She also liked parrots, so I think she kept about 3 parrots and they were often flying around in these areas.

But the the Conservatory of course is no longer the sorry the the winter garden is no longer with us.

She she gave that to the the people of Swansea in about I think about 1918 or something like that it's it's still there down on the the sea front in Swansea it's known as the Paddy pavilion and and still there today.

41:51

But I mean they had so many wonderful things here.

She did so much nicolini when he was here they had, they were the 1st house in Wales to have electricity.

Adalina imported this wonderful organ called the orchestra from the USA which much to Nicolini's delight as he would entertain people with this this organ with its special features.

42:21

And it was, it must have been truly a wonderful place to be here.

Yes, electricity.

The 1st house in Wales apparently and I think the there was a few other things.

I mean in 1905 I think we're talking about we had this this new invention called the Gramophone.

42:43

The Gramophone company in London obviously keyed to sign up all the top artists of the day.

As you can imagine, Adelina Patty was on the top of their list.

So they wrote to Adelina suggesting that she would come down to London and they would be happy to do a few recordings.

43:05

You know, Adelina being Adelina of course, said no, thank you very much.

I'm, I'm not really interested.

Of course they were taken aback by this and they continued to try and persuade her and in the end she she said, well, OK, we'll, we'll give it a try, but you must come to me, Which they did.

43:26

They packed up all their recording equipment of the day onto the railway and arrived up at Pet Wield at Kragenow station and the horse and carriages were sent to bring all the equipment down.

And she they set the equipment up in her boudoir and recordings were made.

43:48

I think when she got to hear a recording she was really taken aback.

She was astounded, but of course she hadn't heard her own voice before, and apparently she said, Now I know why they call me the Queen of song, but there again, there we are, Craig and Norris at the birth of the British recording industry, as it was 1000 in those days.

44:13

The theatre of that, they just imagine the scene of, you know, these people are packing up all of this equipment to bring to her on the train and then setting it up.

I mean the theatre and the magic and just that alone.

There's a picture to conjure in your mind is just so wonderful.

44:31

And then to know that that's something that took place, like you said, the birth of this type of musical, you know, the next steps in in the musical journey and how people could hear music, You know, the transformative nature of that.

44:47

Yes, yes.

You know, the fact that some of that took place at Kragenos with Adelina is just again, part of this wonderful tapestry of history that plays out in the castle.

And that's just so phenomenal.

45:03

And again, just some of this lovely magic of the building that's just seeped in the bones, that these are the stories that it has to tell.

Yes it's it's really is the wonderful place to be.

I I mentioned I mean we we forget we tend to forget how wealthy she was.

45:24

I mentioned the railway.

Adalina arrived here in 1878, but I think in about before she came here.

In about 1867 the railway line was opened between between Neath and Brecon, which passed up on the mountainside behind the castle on Pennwilt and I suppose initially made mainly used for industrial purposes and agricultural purposes.

45:50

But there was a small station or waiting room there known as Pennwilt.

But Adelina being Adelina, she had her own railway carriage, which was the equal to Queen Victoria's in terms of luxury and facilities, and a locomotive was made available to her wherever she wanted to go.

46:14

So we often think that she was sort of sort of out of the way here.

Well, she was.

I mean, she chose the to be sort of out of the, the, the, the limelight, as it were in those days, to have peace and quiet in this wonderful home that she'd created.

46:36

But at the end of the day she could go where she wanted to because she has her own sort of facility up on the hill, the the railway.

She improved the road from the castle up to the railway station, so it was suitable for the horse and carriages to take her there and collect guests and so on and so forth.

46:57

And I think the people at the time in Pennwilt were so thankful that she'd spent the money to improve the road from probably a track to a a hard surfaced Rd. that they they changed the name from Pennwilt to to Kragenov station while she was here.

47:18

Again, just a measure of how, how generous and how wealthy she was.

And also a testimony to the impact and the lasting legacy that she had, you know, but again, she she came, she had, you know, she had the best of both worlds in terms of this idyllic, tranquil, peaceful setting that she was creating.

47:44

But at the same time was investing in the surroundings to obviously make use of of like you mentioned, being able to get about to to bring people in with these.

But at the same time, the impact that that would have had on the community is something that's endured, it's it's lasted.

48:04

And again, I think it speaks to just the impact the that indelible mark that she's left on the estate and the surrounding area is just quite astounding.

It is, it's it's it's quite remarkable.

When she passed away, I mean, I mean obviously that must have been devastating for the community.

48:26

The castle itself was then repurposed, wasn't it, by the Welsh National Memorial Trust.

Do you want to kind of take us through some of that history as to what happened towards the end of Patty's life and that kind of transition?

48:43

Yes, well Adelina passed in, passed away in 1919.

The Baroncini Strom obviously left after Adelina had passed and I think he certainly returned to London.

49:02

He may have possibly returned to to his his route in Sweden, I'm not quite sure on that, but the the castle and the the estate were put up for sale.

Initially there wasn't much interest, but then there was an auction.

49:21

It was placed to auction in 18 in 19, sorry, 1921 at the Metropole Hotel in Swansea and the information at that time suggested that there were, I think if I remember correctly, something like 4 farms.

49:40

There was the castle, obviously 4 farms, 17 cottages, a working quarry on the hillside with 33 acres and some a huge amount of rough grazing land, thousands of acres which was the surrounding hillside which is all part of what had become Adelina Pattinson Estate.

50:05

The IT is thought that the that Edward the 7th formerly the Prince of Wales, but obviously by this diameter the 7th intervened and suggested that as you rightly said earlier, the National Memorial Memorial Association was should purchase the castle and so it could be made a tuberculosis hospital, which of course at this time was creating terrible things with the population within the UK.

50:41

This was in 1921 and then of course from 1922 up till about, I think it was about 1959.

It was tuberculosis sanatorium and all the rooms were converted and changed, except the theatre, of course.

51:05

Fortunately all the rooms were turned in, you know, to hospital wards or treatment rooms and so on and so forth.

And it it changed again.

You see, there's this cycle where it was music, love and laughter.

With Adelina we suddenly find the place becoming what seems to be a sort of a dark and and dismal sort of building with this new use of being a tuberculosis hospital.

51:39

This is a wonderful book called The Children of Kragenhorse where some of the the people that were here during that time write accounts of what it was like to be here.

Some are quite sad, some sort of, you know, enjoyed their time here.

52:01

But about it wasn't all sadness.

About two years ago we had a lady come here who used to be here as a patient and she was telling us about the place and it was quite to quite interesting.

52:18

She was very poorly as a very young girl when she was here but eventually she recovered and she left and went to work in London.

Unfortunately she had a relapse in London and I think she said she had an operation to have one lung removed, but she survived that.

52:39

And do you know she came back to try Craigenorse, trained as a nurse here, fell in love with one of the staff here and had two children here or in the area when she where she lived.

So that's a sort of a very happy story compared with some of the earth stories which were very sad indeed.

53:01

But from 1959 onwards it then became, it still was a chest hospital, but of course the the introduction of the the vaccine streptomycin was so effective.

I think it was.

53:18

It was sort of discovered around early, I think about 1944, and by 1947 they'd done sort of field trials.

And it was then the immunisation programme of course, which a lot of people will remember.

53:36

And it was so effective, of course that by 1959 the the castle here was no longer in use as a tuberculosis hospital, but it became a hospital for industrial diseases because locally we have the industries of the the quarries, the the vines and so on and so forth.

53:58

So chest complaints were still quite common.

And then it became more of an old people's home.

And then that continued up until about the mid 1980s and I think 1986 the new hospital in Astra Gun Lice which is just a few miles down the road, the new hospitals opened and of course then Cracker Norse became redundant as a as a hospital as it was interestingly in the new hospital in Astra Gun Lice there is a ward called the Adelina Patting ward obviously dedicated to Adelina Patty and and Craig and Noss.

54:41

From then on the the castle passed into some local consortium.

I think Mr. Jones was a gentleman who was looking after that operation which was supported by local people who tried to keep the theatre running, you know, for operatic societies and local dramatic societies and so on.

55:09

And then that sort of came to a halt and it was then taken over by a local man, I think Doctor Jones and his wife, who were here for a number of years trying to keep the place going.

And then in 99 two thousand it was taken over by the current owner Martin Gover for his company Celt Lean Limited to be a national call centre and conference centre but and it's still in his ownership today.

55:39

But of course over the years things have changed and the the original income from the company that supported the castles and maintain it.

I mean that sort of was not as as good as it used to be, but we were fortunate because of the the beautiful place that it is.

56:03

It became a very, very popular weddings wedding venue and that's our main business now we we do I think well over 100 weddings a year.

So again we've returned to love, laughter and music.

56:24

Thankfully, it's.

Amazing, isn't it just the the number of kind of almost faces that the The Castle has had and like like you said, the number of evolutions and journeys it's been through.

It's just, it's remarkable.

It's just part of the story, isn't it?

Those changes and to see it, to see it kind of being brought back to that is something quite joyful I think.

56:46

And and being loved and being enjoyed and people coming and visiting.

I think that's something that Adelina would really, really be kind of getting a kick out of.

That enjoyment being shared by so many other people and coming and spending their day to get married or to go on a tour or just enjoy the landscape of the the the castle itself.

57:08

I mean, yeah, I think she would have enjoyed that.

Yes, well, I mean for people that have never been here, I mean it's it's highly recommended.

I mean if you love history, music, Victorian Gothic architecture, good food and even ghosts.

57:27

Yeah.

It's.

Another story then it's it's a must see, you know place to come and enjoy.

It's a bit of a treasure trove and I think certainly from my perspective, I'm going to make sure that all of the details are are available on the podcast description, notes, etcetera.

57:50

So that for anybody who wishes to take a look, maybe plan a visit or if they're in a position where they're looking for a venue for their wedding, or if they've got a love of history or the paranormal or any of these other things, these touching points that I think the castle has to offer.

58:10

You know, it's somewhere that I think you will really enjoy.

And you know, to make it easy for people to find by signposting on the on the podcast is an easy thing for me to do.

And I really hope that people take that up and go and go and take a visit for themselves.

58:26

Because I think when you get to step into a place like Craganoss, you really are stepping into a time capsule like you said.

I think that's the perfect explanation of you're able to step into somewhere and really kind of get a sense of that passion, that love in the detail, the small details as well as the big details.

58:48

And and again, just being able to walk through some of the the history and the the stories that it has to share.

The characters that are part of its story.

It's just they're in the fabric of the building.

59:03

And I think that's what people can come away and have a sense of that, that they take away with them if they get the chance to go.

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59:28

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1:01:48

For only together can we keep the ghostly embers glowing, illuminating the darkness with tales untold.

Now that is returned to the mysteries that beckoned from beyond the veil, What spectres await?

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1:02:07

Let us venture forth, for the journey into the unknown has only just begun.

Hi, Lazarus.

Thank you so much for joining me this evening.

It's.

Been an It's an absolute pleasure.

1:02:23

Hi.

Good to sit.

Good to talk to you, Michelle.

Do you want to just start by telling the people listening a little bit about yourself and your background?

Yeah, I'm well, I'm, I'm a retiree now at 72 I guess, but still working all the hours that God sends because of the things that I'm interested in.

1:02:42

My background was in mental health as a a psychotherapist and a counsellor for many years and and a part time musician and folk singer.

And I've had an interest in parapsychology, let's say.

1:03:01

And that healing aspect of of things, the holistic view of things since the well, really since the very early 80s and I moved to Wales 25 years ago.

1:03:18

No, sorry, I'm goodness me, I'm not remembering.

I moved to Wales 30 years ago.

That's right.

I moved to This Valley, where I am now 20, and I first went to Craggy North Castle about, oh, 15 years ago or so.

1:03:36

I had done an album called The Ballad of Penny Cragg, which was basically a musical story about a haunted house that I lived in.

And I had gone to Craggy North Castle in order to find out whether they would flog my CDs at reception.

1:03:54

And I was waiting to speak to the manager.

Lovely June day it was.

Sun was shining and I was sat in the bar on my own and suddenly I heard this voice say to me, hello little man with the big voice.

1:04:10

And I said, oh, hello, who are you?

And And the return came.

My name is Rossini, and I have to admit my ignorance of not knowing who was seen he was at the time.

And of course he was a very famous composer and a very good friend of Adelina Patty's, who of course owned Cragnutt Castle from 1878 to 1919.

1:04:37

So that was where it started for me really.

It's such a magical place and I I imagine with an encounter like that, it was part of the appeal.

But it's a beautiful location as well.

It's just seeked in history and stories and legends and folklore and all manner of different things.

1:04:59

And you know, just to start off with, I I don't know if you're able to kind of just help set the scene, the atmosphere of why this location is such a huge gem and draw for people because of the stories by just kind of giving us an overview of some of the the rich stories that come out of.

1:05:17

The past indeed, yes, it would be a pleasure.

And the Swansea Valley is is is a very mountainous valley and it goes back really, I mean from an industry, industry standpoint, to the 13th, 14th century during the Industrial Revolution.

1:05:36

It was a very, very busy valley indeed during the time Adelina packet, a very busy, busy valley.

But it sits in an incredible part of the valley with enormous mountains on one side and rather large hills on the other.

1:05:57

It it, it is, it is so green you could almost smell the nature when you drive past it and we might get out.

And in 1843, a chap called Rice Powell Davis who alleged to be a captain in the in the Monmouthshire of Fusiliers who was very, very rich.

1:06:20

He'd inherited tremendous amounts of money from his grandfather and he was a lawyer of sorts if you like and certainly he became a local magistrate he and he wanted to go upmarket as many of them did in in Victorian times and he decided that he would build a very large Gothic house.

1:06:47

Now originally Craggenhorst Castle was called Grindelin Mansions and the reason for that is was because it was built on a field called Brindelin Bar and a chap called Thomas Wyatt, who was an architect, a very famous architect at the time, came along and designed the original building of Craginos Castle as it is now, which was basically just a massive gothic mansion.

1:07:19

And he rice pal Davis moved in there along with his family.

There's an interesting feature in this story because as you can imagine, you've got this rather gothic mansion in a beautiful setting inhabited by a very rich, Victorian, well connected family.

1:07:45

Now everything went wrong.

Everything that could have gone wrong for Rice Power, for Captain Rice Powell Davis indeed did go wrong.

Now there is a very famous legend associated with called the Overbeat Kirk and the nature of this curse comes from Rice Powell Davies and his cousin not getting on with each other at all.

1:08:12

The main reason for that was because their grandfather left all the money to write power and only £100 to his cousin, so that was a bone of contention.

However, his cousin who was a surgeon in India at the time, he he had many many arguments with with rice power David many arguments indeed they were forever falling out with each other.

1:08:40

And as I say, he married into money.

The cousin and he married a very famous lady and their family were absolutely loaded, really.

I mean, their family history went back to the 16th century and they made most of their money from slavery, apparently.

1:09:03

However, having said that, the problem was that his, his, his dear wife was very, how can I say this, staked in in in ancient stuff, you know, having been in Jamaica and Africa and and and Dutch Africa, there was a big connection with Voodoo etcetera.

1:09:30

She did not like captain right now, David at all.

Cornelia was not a happy person where he was concerned and the captain bullied his country a lot.

She put a curse on him and it was it was the curse was done in French, and I won't make any attempt to pronounce it because my French is absolutely dreadful, but it basically boiled down to two walls, a black wool and a white wolf back-to-back.

1:10:05

And of course the white wolf protects, whereas the black wolf attacks if you like.

So she put this curse upon his family and everything started to go wrong.

There was a number of children that died very young.

1:10:21

His wife passed away, his son was killed in a freak steeplechasing accident in the Isle of Wight and he every penny that he more or less had, he lost it was it just disappeared.

1:10:39

And he was.

When he actually passed away, the family had almost died out and there was no money left the door, so it's quite interesting that there might have been some significance in this rather weird overbeat curse.

And I think, you know, it's it's kind of the starting point really, isn't it, of the, the, the history and the stories that are associated with Kragonos.

1:11:04

Because it almost goes through these different manifestations, if you like, in terms of who's there, who is kind of owning and part of the part of the location and the land, but then also how it's used.

You know, you go from that into this wonderfully opulent operatic kind of era with Adeline Lepati and you know what, a character.

1:11:29

But then to go that into the hospital, it's just these all these different things, doesn't?

It people forget, Michelle, that there was another owner between the captain and Adelina Pathy who was a landowner and a chap called Morgan Morgan who was very well known in the valley, a very old Welsh family going back, you know generations.

1:11:55

And he had he, he had ideas about, you know, becoming a a man of a a local Gentry.

And so he bought Graginoss or Brinmelon Palates, Brinmelon Mansions as it was there.

1:12:13

But not from Rice Powell Davis because it went into Chancery after Rice Powell Davis passed away.

And Morgan Morgan, I think he paid about six and a half 1000 lbs for something like that anyway, which he knows that phenomenal amount of money but he only lasted a couple of years.

1:12:33

He was, he was fairly old when he bought his son, although he moved in and started to work some of the land and there was quarries and forestry plantations.

He wanted to go back to working in the quarries and the mines where the money was.

1:12:52

And in fact he became very famous in the local valley and the in fact the founders of the Danaroga cave system, famous cave system, it's only a mile or so of the road from Craggy Knott's castle.

They were all related to the Morgan Morgan family as well.

1:13:12

So it's quite significant that you know that it's almost like these people radiated out into the into the development of the valley per SE.

But yes, you're quite right in in 1878 when Adelaide and Patty had moved in to Bryn Malin and changed the name to Craginos, which means rock of the night, and things changed dramatically.

1:13:45

This valley went through a lot of poverty, like a lot of places did in in the Victorian era.

And Royce Powell Davis and Morgan Morgan, you know, despite their desires of course, weren't able to manage this huge house that had been built.

1:14:06

When Adelina came along, she then spent the next 20 years adding all sorts of things onto it.

She was an incredible woman, you know.

She wasn't just the world's greatest operatic performer at that time, but to try and put this in the context for listeners, If you can imagine what The Rolling Stones get for one night's performance nowadays, that's what Adelina used to command in the in the 19th century.

1:14:37

So she was terribly rich and she was very well connected.

Her first husband was inquiry to equity.

Sorry to Napoleon that marriage didn't last very often.

And then she married Ernesto Nicolini, the composer, and was blissfully happy.

1:14:58

She had a lovely relationship with him, but sadly he was.

He was playing with terrible illnesses with his chest and breathing and she spent a lot of money, you know, actually trying to find cures for him, which is how she met her third husband, Baron Cedestra who was at the time running a if you're like quasi health clinic in London where she where she took an economically new too for healing.

1:15:27

She was very, very super generous in the local community.

You know, she gave lots of money to charities.

She did performances to raise money.

She they craggy North Castle became a place where very rich famous people visited.

1:15:48

It is said that the Prince of Wales visited, but we we've never actually been able to track down whether that's true or not.

But she certainly performed for Queen Victoria many times and as I say, was very well connected with with everybody.

And she, she brought in a a chap from England called Constantine Ibbot as her head gardener and he basically, you know, made craggy knots.

1:16:17

One of the most incredible fertile places in in.

Well, probably in South Wales actually.

I mean, it's quite a legacy, isn't it really.

And and I think then with her, her passing, the impact that she left, the mark that she left on the community, I think is certainly something that was evident then and is still evident.

1:16:38

To do it's incredibly evident now.

I mean, anybody who lives in this valley, if they haven't heard of Adelina Patty, they they have.

They don't live in this valley really.

I mean, her legacy is incredible, not only because of the chasm, although obviously that's the main, but, you know, Kragenos Country Park as it is now.

1:17:04

Was her back garden.

You know, it was her back garden and Constantine Ibbad looked after that and she had pine trees built.

Sorry, she had pine trees planted hundreds and hundreds of them because she liked the smell of pine.

1:17:26

It cleared her throat.

It allowed her to sing, etcetera, you know.

So there was so much planning went into it and in fact the there was a very large Conservatory which ended up being moved into Swansea, the Patty Pavilion, which is still there today.

1:17:46

I think it's an Indian restaurant now, but for many, many years it was a concert then.

But obviously rock music as opposed to operatic stuff.

So Adelina brought to this valley what can only be described as elegance, light, love.

1:18:07

She loved children.

She was very kind to the local children.

And in fact it is known that sadly, I mean when she married, she never had children.

And when she married Baron Segerstrom, he wanted children.

1:18:24

He was, he was 35 years younger than him, which was quite a considerable number of years of course.

And he was a Swedish chap and he Swedish aristocracy.

And it is argued that he was a bit of a bully, etcetera.

1:18:45

And Adelina perhaps could have been happier than she was.

I think in the early days of the relationship she, you know, I mean she had a toy boy if you like, really.

I mean, it isn't his argue that she was.

She was very fond of Malcolm and she was a very small lady, very petite, you know, very petite, extremely attractive.

1:19:08

And of course, as I said, she was mega rich, so there was a tremendous aura of wealth around.

And the Craggy Nose Castle actually has a Sieta within it, which was built by Adeline, what she paid anyway, and it's still there today in its original state.

1:19:37

It has a floor that elevates the back.

So those who are sitting at the back of the of the room, if you like are elevated up so they have a better W Everybody sees the state and it still works today.

Sadly, you know there is extensive renovation needed in in parts of the castle and particularly the back of the stage and all the all the drops because all the original drops are still there.

1:20:05

And as it's an absolutely amazing thing, everything about it is magical and it's almost every square inch has its own story.

And I think that again, is part of the the drawer of the location this it's beautiful.

1:20:21

But then, you know, as you just mentioned, every nook in every cranny seems to have a story attached to it, and it's just steeped in in legend and law and ghost law.

And you can't really, you can't really go wrong with that kind of pedigree.

1:20:37

Well, it's.

Interesting that you should say that, because my, my colleague Jeremy Marsh, who you've spoken to and myself, started doing extensive research about this time last year, but a bit early in this summer, into the spirits that are still in craggy North Castle.

1:20:59

It is one of the most haunted venues in Wales, tremendous amount of activity and as you know they run ghosts on some on a regular basis and very, very popular.

But we decided, or either I decided that how wonderful it would be if we could tell the stories of the inhabitants, you know, the ghosts and the spirits of the cattle in their own words rather than, you know, actually imagine what their lives might have been, right.

1:21:33

So I undertook A tremendous amount of research with real people who had connections with with the council and then in January last year started regular trans channelling sessions where essentially what that is, I go to sleep.

1:21:51

And as a medium, you know, if you like the spirit of whoever it is can speak through me in their voice etcetera, etcetera.

I have no recollection of what's occurring really until after the event when I might look at the film or listen to the audio.

1:22:08

And it does require another person to be asking questions as well.

Otherwise, you know, did they ask me some kind of audit of it to the affair, if you like.

And we've done now upwards of 170 actual interviews with different spirits, including Adelina Patty, including Captain Royce Pearl, David Morgan Morgan and Baron Cedarstrom.

1:22:39

And in fact, Baron Cedarstrom is quite a regular visit on our in our sessions we channelled waiters, maids, grooms, coach drivers, gardeners, farmers.

1:23:00

And you know, that's from the first three parts of the of the history of the castle, if you like.

Because as you're aware, in 1919 when Adelina passed away, it became a hospital for, you know, children and adults, etcetera, with consumption originally.

1:23:20

And we enchanted a lot of children.

It then became a psycho geriatric hospital and we've had people with dementia coming through.

Obviously they haven't got dementia when they passed away.

So we've had a tremendous experience of listening to real stories from these energies, let's call them energies rather than they are.

1:23:41

They're still frequent the castle today.

So we've ended up with a with a mass of data, some of which genealogy wise we've been able to prove as well.

So it's factual as well as personal accounts.

1:23:57

So a tremendous piece of research really.

And because it's at 1st and we didn't know it was, I think I think that's even more exciting too.

Well, I think it's fascinating that you've undertaken this study with Jeremy who was obviously the the Castle historian.

1:24:15

But then using this data to go down this deeper dive by trying to source family members, relatives, tracing genealogy, You know, going through the history books, going through records to then start to piece together what comes through as part of that investigation, the the, the channelling, but also then connecting that with historical fact finding to see what is matching up.

1:24:42

And you know, again, it's very rare that you see that happen whereby connections like that are being made to get a really full rounded picture as to who these individuals were, their story and their connection with the location and what makes you know that their energy stay there.

1:25:00

That's an interesting question because it's it's one that we've asked a number of times, you know, why are you still here?

And it's interesting because wherever there is a tremendous amount of water which and the water systems in The Cave systems in this area are phenomenal, you know, very, very deep.

1:25:24

There's a lot of underground water.

There is said to encourage, if you like, psychic activity.

On top of that you have Kragnos is magical and there's no other way to describe it.

1:25:41

It's a magical setting.

It's, you know, I mean some people sort of, you know, take the fright night, eerie weary sort of approach.

You know, I prefer the more magical fairy land sort of approach myself.

And when you, when you walk up to this massive gothic building, you're faced with a bygone era, which actually is in real terms is not that old.

1:26:10

We're talking less than 200 years old, you know which in the term in terms of history, it's not really that long and yet it's a phenomenal history that it has and we keeping uncovering new information all of the time.

1:26:29

You know and it's been a real journey of not just discovery of what is going on there and everything else, but also a personal discovery to achieve things that quite frankly I don't think Jeremy and I ever thought we would achieve and it's ongoing.

1:26:48

That's the other thing we we thought that you know there may come a point when perhaps we could draw a line under it and write it up etcetera, etcetera, which of course we are doing.

But in fact it's going to be ongoing for a little while yet and there's still more for us to do.

So we are given to understand.

1:27:08

So in terms of part of that research, were there any particular you know aspects that when you when you kind of went down that route of of digging a bit deeper were really kind of stand out moments whether?

It was because you.

Connected with someone or something that just was jumping off the page in terms of the research.

1:27:28

Oh yeah, there, there.

There's been loads, to be honest with you.

There's things that really stand out.

In my mind was the The Channelling of Ernesto Nicolini, who was looking for Adelina and he spoke of his love for her.

1:27:47

And when I have to say that when I watched the video afterwards, because I had, as I said, I have no recollection of what's happened at the time.

But when I watched the video afterwards, I was reduced to tears.

It was so moving, listening to this man speak of his love for Adelina Patty, You know who he had sadly lost because he passed away and that was one moment.

1:28:11

I channelled Adelina a few times as well and she speaks of her love for the children that inhabit the castle.

Still from the times when it was a hospital, we've had moments where what is interesting is when we first started there was I personally as a medium with hearing trim, loads of voices all at the same time.

1:28:38

It was like walking, walking in a January sale, you know.

And after a little after a couple of months or so, everything started to really, really calm down and become very, very focused.

And my most mediums have a couple of spirit guides if you like, who helped them to manage the energies on, let's call it the other side of the rail, and my guys are very good at that.

1:29:07

However, what did transpire was there was, I think his name is Ivan William, who had worked for Adelina Patty in the stables I think or something, and he took it upon himself.

This is on the other side of the rail.

Took it upon himself to organise the spirit for the interviews.

1:29:29

So we ended up with one at a time and then it it really took off.

So we would sit down and do a session and we might have between 6:00 and 10:00 interviews in one session.

And we, as I said, we've we've had practically every form of occupation that you can think of, as well as some of the famous people themselves.

1:29:49

Adelina, to channel her was.

I've never had an experience like it in my life.

Her presence, her energy was almost holy.

It was almost holy.

1:30:05

It was almost like channelling a St. if that makes any sense.

You know she was the personification of magic and beauty.

Even in spirit she is still heard.

She was very famous for the song Home Sweet Home.

1:30:22

That was her if you're like #1 hit in in in those times.

And of course, as you know, she was one of the first artists ever to record anything on on recording equipment as well.

So that was a phenomenal moment.

1:30:39

There have been others as well with less than the dignitaries.

If you like, there's a chap called Ogg for Williams who was a labourer for Constantine ever who comes to us.

He's been to us a number of times and he gives us stories of the different characters that they worked with, the different incidents that occurred.

1:31:01

You know he he speaks of 1 chap called in a minute Willie who was a little labourer who was forever getting things wrong you know and he he, he.

So we've had very amusing encounters as well on the one hand, two extremely moving and sad ones on the other.

1:31:24

And I think what's really kind of wonderful about this project is that, you know, I think obviously for anybody that knows the, you know, the castle's history, they will know the key characters in all.

But yet, you know, you step below that and there are this, there's this huge kind of number of people who worked the estate, worked the castle.

1:31:47

And it's wonderful to also see kind of digging into that so that their stories, their voices and their names can be looked at and explored through the research and through, you know, your investigative channelling with yourself and Jeremy, so that you know you're almost telling the story of the castle and all of its inhabitants from the ground up.

1:32:09

And again, I think that adds some richness to it, some context as to just how loved the location.

Was really brought life to it.

And, you know, rather than it just be, Oh well, Adelina Pachi, the famous opera singer, blah, blah, blah.

It's brought meaning to her life.

1:32:27

It's brought meaning to the lives of everybody who ever had anything to do with it.

I think certainly for us it's been an incredible experience and one that isn't over yet, but you know, a really amazing experience of discovery and actually, you know, speaking as someone who's, you know, I mean traditionally trained as a therapist and basically in science etcetera.

1:32:52

You know, I mean one would, would, would expect, you know that that such things as this would would be beyond my comprehension.

In fact it it it it makes one have a much more rounded toolbox of skills generally in life I feel and it's nice to be able to look at things from every single point of view.

1:33:13

For example the saddest that definitely I mean you know we we we spoke a little bit about the curse and yes that was very that was a very difficult period.

We spoke about Morgan Morgan which which again didn't end well and the happy times were were were was Adelina without doubt.

1:33:33

But then it took a plummet back into sadness again when it when it had its hospital journey.

And what is significant again from the channellings is that we've had a lot of children come through that passed away when it was a hospital and a lot of them talk of Adelina singing.

1:33:56

They love her voice there.

There are some people who will tell you that they, and I'm amongst them, who have sat in the silence of the theatre and heard Adelina singing home sweet home.

1:34:12

You can hear her voice.

She's still there, as are many of them, but they they come and they go, you know, then they don't stay there all of the time.

I mean we don't really know what goes on on the other side of the veil.

But what I could add for listeners to consider is that we do live in a multi dimensional universe, which means that we could be in several places at the same time.

1:34:39

And it also definitely means that we can go from 1 dimension to another.

And what is death except just moving from one place to another?

I mean, I'm a firm believer that just because we lose our physical body, our spirit lives on in some shape or core and that's what we're experiencing in the work that we're doing in Cognos.

1:35:05

So something that is also really important to touch upon is like you said, the geography of this location is so key.

But I also think some of that history, the fact it was so well loved, means that there are so many energies attached to it.

Real happiness, real euphoria, a time of real opulence and and excitement and wonder and magic and then also times of real sadness when maybe it was a little bit darker.

1:35:32

And I think all of those types of feelings, those very strong, powerful emotional feelings, are also something that somehow just means that some of those same feelings stay.

And what form does that then take?

And I, you know, I think it's that combination of geography, the use, how it kind of evolved, how, how and what happened to it during its lifetime.

1:35:56

You just see them play out in all the things that that happened there.

That means that it does have this reputation of being so active.

It would make an incredible movie.

The story of the place would make no doubt about it, Which will bring you on to another point in a little while.

1:36:14

But yes, you're absolutely right.

The magic is the only way you can describe it.

I mean what isn't very significant about Craggy North Castle is that in a lot of haunted castles building, generally speaking, you know, there's always something evil, something nasty, you know.

1:36:37

Well, I can tell you there's nothing in cragging us that is nasty or horrible or evil, you know, Yes, there are one or two spirits who get irritated at times and and don't we all get irritated at times.

But in terms of true nastiness and evilness, there's nothing like that in Craggy, not at all.

1:36:58

What there is is that some of the spirits are sad because of what happened to them, which is totally different.

So there's there's, you know, there's no malignancy about them at all, which of course for me been a good thing to experience because there's nothing worse perhaps than going into Trance and and travelling somebody that's rather unpleasant.

1:37:22

There's been one, one or two occasions where, you know, certainly with Baron Cedarstrom, when he, when he came in the early days, he was very arrogant, extremely arrogant.

And I used to wake up from the trances with terrible headaches, you know, because he was behaving in a way which was very foreign to me in in every shape.

1:37:47

But he's mellowed, thank goodness, and told us so many stories about things that, you know, we just weren't likely to know.

His daliances with the maids, for example.

Very similar things.

It's almost like an Upstairs Downstairs in the spirit world.

1:38:06

But isn't that just?

So again, it's just representing life and the, you know, the kind of the different levels, the hierarchy and the more synchronies of life.

More importantly, it was that life goes on.

Yeah, that's the real evidential thing in it is that, you know, it is true that our lives do go on, you know, and I mean the whole, the whole job of of mediums really is to give evidence of life after death of when it where it all started.

1:38:38

Because it's significant also that in the days when crying in US and or Bryn Malin as it was known in the early days, that was the birth of spiritualism as well in Victorian time.

So it is quite significant that there's all these various connections if you like.

1:39:00

I mean, I'm just looking forward to to finishing the books.

I mean, I've almost finished the first volume, which covers from 1843 to 1877, that's almost ready for the publishers and once the illustrators finished with it, and then I'll be starting The Incredible Years of Adelina Patty, which I'm looking for.

1:39:23

But as we were talking about before the programme, we've we've been approached by a television company as well.

We started filming our work back in October and originally they were only going to film a documentary because they thought it was fascinating what we were doing.

1:39:42

But in fact the more involved they got in the documentary, it changed from being a documentary to A to a number of of programmes making up a series.

So and that's ongoing.

In fact the first part of that is aired by Showbook Television on the Internet, I think it's 15th of March I believe.

1:40:03

And that's been produced by Showbook Television, which is incredibly fortunate because it spreads the story even further as well, which is something we weren't expecting to happen so.

There seems to have been a lot of cogs in this very small wheel that began a little while ago that are still spinning and faster and faster as we speak.

1:40:28

Well, sometimes things just align, don't they, whereby things just fall into place and things then start to happen almost in quick succession.

And you know, I think it's it's wonderful that you've got the books you're working on, that you've got this, this TV series, but you're also continuing anyway to do the research with with Jeremy.

1:40:52

And I think it just helps to preserve the stories, preserve the history because you're doing it side by side.

You're doing it in tandem to really try and create this, this set of data that just helps to preserve some of the legacy of the people that have been part of this of this castle.

1:41:12

Through its various transformation.

Because when you you're absolutely right.

Because the bottom line is when anybody talks about a historic building, they always talk about the famous people that live there.

They don't talk about those who cleaned the windows, lift fires, you know serve the meals etcetera, etcetera.

1:41:33

And we've been fortunate enough to talk about all sorts of people and still are doing and we were.

We were going to wind down the research, but there's so much coming up that we decided we would carry on for a little while.

And the we we actually did the final filming for the first series yesterday and just happened to mention to the TV producer that we decided that in fact we would.

1:42:02

We were going to carry on for a little while And his response to us was well, I'm quite happy to do about 40 episodes if need be to which we sort of sat back and went, oh, OK then, right.

All right.

So yes it is.

It is ongoing and and we've also created, we're starting to do monthly events as well in in April whereby using Adelina's theatre, opera theatre that she had.

1:42:37

We're going to have evenings of clairvoyance and channelling where the public can come along and not only have perhaps readings from mediums and clairvoys himself, but also witness me in trans channelling these these these energies so they can talk to them basically and then with the Q&A at the end.

1:42:59

So that's an exciting thing that we're going to do once a month and we're having a site, an international psychic conference in November.

So it's really all taking off like a little rocket ship.

Which is brilliant.

1:43:15

And like I said, it just helps to preserve some of that legacy.

And you know, from that you glean so much in terms of the stories of the characters, of the people, but also the local history.

I mean, there's so many things that come out of this kind of research and work, I think.

1:43:33

Indeed, indeed.

Could so easily be lost, and I think the fact that you're preserving that but also helping to share that with people who I might love the castle already or for some who they're discovering it for the first time.

Indeed, yeah.

I mean it's interesting you see, because 20 odd years ago and I moved into the valley, I moved into a very haunted cottage and and whilst I was living there a story was revealed to me which I did write a book about Violet of Penny Greig, which was around about the same time it was in 1850.

1:44:06

It was.

And that was a a a story about an ordinary little poacher who.

Fell out.

With the local gamekeeper and it was the biggest murder scandal, if you like.

1:44:21

The Valley never known.

What what is interesting about this story about the Ballad of Panic, right, which is very, very much related to Pragonos in my head anyway, is that, as I said earlier in the introduction that, you know, I'm a bit of a folk musician.

1:44:38

And I.

And before I wrote the book, I actually wrote a number of songs about this haunted cottage and the characters involved in the story.

And much to my amazement, the the title song, The Ballad of Penny, I got to number one in the in the folk charts, you know, the Internet folk chart.

1:44:57

What people, a lot of people don't know, of course, is that the history of the song itself?

I'd finished writing it and it was a year before I found or I could find the the last line to the song and the last line to the song actually is Now they're both angels in flight.

1:45:16

And the evening when that happened, both of the key ghosts, let's say in the story, appeared just as I was singing the line.

And when I finished singing the line, they'd gone.

It was almost, I mean, my friend of mine did a radio programme and it called On the Trail of the Ballad of Penny, right, And actually said commented to me.

1:45:37

So it's almost like a musical exorcism, you know?

But I have to say, I I wonder who exercised who?

Oh really?

It's honestly, it's so fascinating to hear this though, and it's so fascinating to have to kind of kind of see that love that you've got in what you're doing, the passion that you have for it, and the real integrity of what you're doing as well.

1:45:56

And I really do thank you so much for coming and and sharing your knowledge.

Share more about what you've been doing on the podcast this evening.

Honestly, it's been such a pleasure to chat with you.

It's been really nice to share everything that we're doing.

I mean, I I think that people need to know this kind of thing.

1:46:15

And I'd like to thank you for giving us the time to share our work with you and also to share the wisdom, if you like, of those that went on before us and particularly about Craggy North Castle, which is the most magnificent, wonderful place.

1:46:33

Yeah, absolutely.

And I will make sure to include your details on the podcast description, dates, etcetera, because then people can find you when your book comes out.

I don't know if you want to just quickly say what the book title is going to.

Be well, that is.

Walls Have Ears, which is a perfect title for Craig did offer.

1:46:51

It indeed, yeah.

But you know they they will be able to easily be able to find you and keep abreast of that news so that they know when it's coming out etcetera.

Well, I've I've got my own little publishing company which I shall publish it under my own imprint, which is Swift arrowbooks.co.uk, Swift Arrow Books Limited, sorry.co.uk.

1:47:12

And I also have an author's website whichislargestcarpenterauthor.com.

So between the two of of those, you know people would be able to track the book without any difficulty whatsoever.

And of course, it'll probably be on Amazon and and Lulu, as all these things are nowadays.

1:47:32

There's a lot.

Time.

Water.

Time.

Well, honestly, it's been such a pleasure.

Thank you so much.

And I'll say goodbye to everybody listening.

Bye everybody and goodnight everybody