Spectral Stories of Scotland With Wayne Gilbert

0:17

Welcome to Haunted History Chronicles, the podcast where we unravel the mysteries of the past, one ghostly tale at a time.

I'm your host, Michelle, and I'm thrilled to be your guide on this Erie journey through the pages of history.

0:34

Picture this, a realm where the supernatural intertwines with the annals of time, where the echoes of the past reverberate through haunted corridors and forgotten landscapes.

That's the realm we invite you to explore with us.

Each episode will unearth stories, long buried secrets, dark folklore, tales of the macabre, and discuss parapsychology topics from ancient legends to more recent enigmas.

1:03

We're delving deep into locations and accounts all around the globe, with guests joining me along the way.

But this podcast is also about building a community of curious minds like you.

Join the podcast on social media, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram to share your own ghostly encounters, theories, and historical curiosities.

1:27

Feel free to share with friends and family.

The links are conveniently placed in the description for easy access.

So whether you're a history buff with a taste for the supernatural or a paranormal enthusiast with a thirst for knowledge, Haunted History Chronicles is your passport to the other side.

1:47

Get ready for a ride through the corridors of time where history and the supernatural converge.

Because every ghost has a story, and every story has a history.

And now let's introduce today's podcast or guest.

2:11

Soon after moving in, the family found themselves submersed in the unsettling world of Balekinos.

The most common paranormal occurrences took the form of disconcerting noises.

Mysterious knocks, thumps, and echoing footsteps reverberated through the ancient halls, becoming an almost daily ordeal.

2:31

However, one night would etch the most terrifying memory into their minds.

As the parents slombered peacefully in their beds, a tremendous thud jolted them awake.

To their sheer horror, their bed sheets were forcibly ripped off the bed by unseen hands, an experience that sent shivers down their spines.

2:50

Regularly, a white, misty form would be witnessed, moving silently from room to room.

Yet, the most chilling encounter occurred when their children reported witnessing the apparition of a man.

This phantom figure stood silently, casting an eerie gaze upon them from the shadowy corner of the bedroom.

3:09

This was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Overwhelmed by the relentless onslaught of unexplained events, the family chose to vacate the premises.

Their stay in Balekin House was abruptly cut short after enduring just 11 harrowing weeks.

Within a year later, in 1897, Balekin became the focal point of an extensive investigation orchestrated by John Crichton Stewart.

3:35

The third mark was of Bute.

This stately residence had earned itself the reputation as the most haunted house in Scotland, drawing unsettling parallels with the Borley Rectory haunting, even including claims of a ghostly nun.

4:15

There are places in the world where the veil between the living and the dead grow thin, where ancient legends are still whispered in the mists.

Today, I invite you to journey with us through the windswept Moors, the craggy cliffs, and the shadowy streets that have birthed some of the most chilling ghost stories in the world.

4:37

Joining me tonight is a very special guest, Wayne Gilbert, host of the podcast Erie Edinburgh and author of Hidden Haunts Scotland, a spine tingling exploration of the ghost stories that have been quietly lurking in the shadows of Scottish history.

4:56

His book delves into the forgotten, the mysterious and the unsettling, bringing to light tales often overshadowed by more famous paranormal accounts.

As we walk the haunted Highlands and cobblestone alleys, we'll uncover the dark, untold histories that have shaped these places into legends.

5:18

Prepare yourself for stories that will make you think twice before you walk alone in the night, so dim the lights.

Sit back and let's begin our descent into the eerie unknown and welcome our guest, Wayne Gilbert, as we unravel the secrets of Scotland's hidden haunts.

5:50

Hi Wayne.

Thank you so much for joining me this evening.

Hi, Michelle.

Thank you.

It's my pleasure.

Do you want to start by just introducing yourself to the listeners on the podcast?

Yeah, sure.

Well, my name is Wayne.

I'm the host of the YouTube channel Erie Edinburgh, also run the Erie Edinburgh website and the podcast.

6:15

Also, I've been running the Edinburgh.

Stuff for around about two years now.

Started with the website during lockdown everybody was baking banana bread and I thought I'd tell some ghost stories.

So started to write the ghost stories that I was familiar with from Edinburgh.

6:33

I'm trying my best to avoid the the usual ones like the vaults and Greyfriars and after a few months after speaking to some friends they kind of convinced me to try.

YouTube So I did my first YouTube video in December 2000 2020 2.

6:51

And just kind of been going from strength to strength since then.

I think I'm more up to about 55 videos now and about 18,000 subscribers.

And I've just had my first book.

Published as well.

And we're going to have the chance to talk about your book, which is incredible.

7:07

I have been reading it every single night, literally every single night until I hurt my eye and just love it.

I mean, it just so reflects you and your style and the podcast.

I mean, I think I've had several conversations with friends who've who've also bought the book and who listened to your podcast and we basically all hear your voice as we read the book, which is lovely because it just seems so familiar.

7:34

It's incredible.

It's a very, very good book.

It's called Hidden Haunts Scotland.

Do you want to just again tell the listeners what inspired you to to write the book?

I never, I've never thought about writing a book before.

When I started the, the Ed Edinburgh website, I used to run a website when I was quite an avid hill Walker.

7:57

So I, that was something that was familiar to me.

You know, I knew how to sell websites and write blog posts and things like that.

And the, the YouTube stuff just felt like a natural progression and telling the story.

You could, I'm quite a visual person, so I could bring a visual aspect to the storytelling and I love music.

8:16

So adding music adds that additional layer of atmosphere to, to the, the telling of the story.

But when I, when I was writing the episodes, it was just a strange feeling that I discovered that I really liked the writing part.

I love the research part, you know, I love reading the ghost stories and, and talking to people about their experiences.

8:38

And I've always had a, a real affinity with Scottish history in particular.

So research and the history to try and lead, you know, mesh the mystery and the history together was something that I really enjoy.

And being able to talk about that with people and some of the feedback, you know, the comments on the YouTube channel are lovely.

8:58

People are so nice about it that I realized that I was quite good at it.

People were enjoying it and they were asking for longer videos and longer episodes.

So I would do a little bit more research.

And then I went for a run one day and had one of those epiphanies.

9:15

Well, I don't know, write a book.

So I started to write a.

Book.

That is going to be released this this month through a different publisher.

It's called the ghost of the North Coast 500 because I I love camping.

Like I said, I love hill walking and I wanted to combine the two and the North Coast 500 is a really popular tourist route in Scotland.

9:37

So I thought that would be quite a unique angle to do on it.

So I, I spent most of 2023 writing the Ghost of the North Coast 500 and then I thought with some of these episodes, you know, some of them are 4 or 5000 words long so that you know there's a chapter when within themself.

9:56

Why don't I try and create a book out of them, but use the stories that nobody really knows or aren't really documented anywhere.

The, the best example I can give for that is the, the three stories around Loch Rana that, that my, it's an area that my, my mum used to live.

10:16

She owned the farm up that way in the mid 90s.

And it's got three stories associated with it.

And the only source for the stories that I've ever been able to find was my mum.

And she got them from the woman who had lived there for 90 years prior to her buying it.

So I I thought that was a real opportunity to.

10:35

Really save some of these stories.

As you know, I mentioned at the start, I think that Greyfriars and the vaults really take the the attention from everything else that goes on in Edinburgh and and Scotland.

10:51

As a whole.

Whenever you you look up, you know, Scottish Ghosts on that YouTube or something like that, you'll find that Ghost adventures gone down the vaults and there's so many stories that are in danger of being lost.

Just because the focus is on one or two areas.

11:06

So that's really what it was.

I love, I discovered that I loved the writing.

I wanted to keep a hold.

I keep these stories, you know, written, documented, and hopefully provide people with something that they found interesting that rather than sitting watching the YouTube, you could read it on the tube.

11:25

Or, you know, if you're going on holiday and you want a book to read by the side of the pool when you like ghost stories and thought that could be quite a good thing for them.

I, I mean, I think the podcast and the book just really captures the sense of mysticism that Scotland has.

I mean, Scotland is so known for its deep connection to the supernatural.

11:45

What do you think makes Scottish history so intertwined with ghostly legends and hauntings?

That's a very good question.

I.

Think, you know, if you think about the history of Scotland, it's full of conflict.

12:03

You know, we've, we've famously, we were at war with England for hundreds of years, but whilst that was happening we were also at war with each other.

The political intrigue in Scotland is enough to, you know, to put any other country to shame.

And I think that kind of background, that kind of history creates a fair tale ground for hauntings.

12:25

Plus, we've, you know, like any of the the Northern hemisphere countries, especially as far north as some of the Scotland is, there's a really strong tradition of folklore and storytelling that can keep these ghostly legends alive.

You know, if you've ever visited Scotland and you've gone beyond the central belt, the landscape, the Mystic lands, the, the mountains, the locks, the forests, it kind of evokes a sense of mystery.

12:52

There's that romanticism about the Scottish landscape.

It just seems to all feed into kind of keeping that connection.

You know, you look around in Edinburgh, just along the road from me, there's lots of examples of medieval architecture, there's lots of castles, ruined abbeys, and they're ideal settings for ghost stories.

13:14

So you know, with all the religious upheavals, the Reformation, the witch persecutions, there's, there's that lasting ghostly association.

But I think you're right.

I mean, I think there's something very much about not only the history, which I think is is very easy to focus on because it is so it's so vast, there's there's so much upheaval.

13:36

But I also think you hit a really relevant point, which is the landscape itself.

I mean, it's, it's so varied and I think there are places that are just so magical and beautiful and it is almost like stepping back into time.

It's so unchanged compared to modern life.

13:55

And I think there's something very connective and powerful about that that again, I think really helps to draw people in and also foster a real love for these types of stories that helps them to continue to endure and and stay relevant for people for from my perspective.

14:14

And I don't know if you if you have anything to add to that in terms of why you think these stories continue to resonate so, so strongly today.

I, I think you're right about the landscape.

You know, if you like the North Coast, 500 gives you every type of Scottish landscape you can get.

14:32

If you got the West Coast, you get beaches.

You know, if the beaches are beautiful white sand, it looks like the Bahamas until you, you dip a toe in the water and you get an ice cream headache in your, your toe.

The water's so cold and you've got mountains.

And then Sutherland is an area which I've only been to a couple of times, but it felt like a travel back maybe 200 years before the Highland clearances.

14:55

Then run to Caithness where it's flat farmland and you can imagine the Vikings and the Norsemen really reading and pillaging and and doing what the Vikings did in that area.

So you feel when you visit these places, you can feel that connection.

15:11

You can.

There is that sense, that palpable sense of history wherever you go and we we do do quite a good job of keeping that history alive with the Historic Scotland and places like that.

And I think we could do a little bit better with the folklore side of things.

15:26

But in terms of history, we we do promote ourselves quite well with that.

And you mentioned earlier that obviously a main focus and drive for you is to really delve into these lesser known ghost stories that, like you said, often get overshadowed by the more famous tales.

15:46

And you, you mentioned, you know, the the stories around the location where your, your mum lived, where, you know, she grew up and, and how they came to you through her and obviously her connections with people who'd lived there, etcetera.

How did you come across some of these other stories?

16:02

Were there particular criteria that you used to to select the stories themselves?

Yeah, there's, there's two things that I look for in a story.

The first one is no demons.

And the second one is it has to give me the goosebump factor.

16:18

You know, if I'm reading it and I kind of get that chill down my spine, then I think, I think I'm an average reader.

I think other people would feel that as well.

So I don't like stories where it's over the top.

You know, I'm not a fan of of some of the, the direction that some of the the more famous paranormal TV programs have gone recently.

16:40

So I like to keep it to a more traditional ghost story, if if there ever is such a thing as a traditional ghost story.

But the ones that feel like they're Scottish, you know, they're quite grounded that you can understand.

You could put yourself in the position of the person.

16:58

And the main thing is that it's a really.

Compelling story as well.

That's that's what I look for.

Yeah.

So those are the couple of things that I really look for in the story.

So how do you see, you know, Scotland's broader history that, you know, we've briefly touched upon?

17:13

How do you see that reflected in these ghost stories?

Are there particular periods or or events that you know in terms of Scottish history seem to really generate more paranormal activity and reports?

Yeah, I think there are.

17:29

I've noticed with a few of the the episodes that appear out recently, I really struggle to say this word.

It's my Scottish accent.

So forgive, forgive my pronunciation here, but there's a there a period in in Scottish history known as the rough wooing, which is when Henry the eighth tried to marry off the the childhood Mary Queen of Scots, the child Queen Mary, Queen of Scots to his son Edward.

17:54

I think it was and there.

Are a lot of stories.

Around that time Mary Queen of Scots has multiple stories and multiple sightings of her ghost supposedly in different locations.

I did one on Hermiston Castle down in the borders.

18:09

I think she's sighted in Sterling Castle as well, possibly Craig Miller Castle.

So she's she gets around a wee bit in their spiritual form.

And also the the Jacobite uprisings 1688 springs to mind.

You know, Bonnie Dundee, one of the major players in that initial Jacobite uprising, his crisis apparition was spotted.

18:31

There's the story of the Phantom regiment of Kelly Cranky, which was a battle.

And then there's like Culloden battlefield is, is very haunted.

And that was the 1746 Battle of Culloden.

So they have the two main periods that stick out to me, that 1688 to 1746 period and anything to do with the rough wooing, which was, I can't quite remember my dates, but it's around about 1540, something around that time.

19:00

It's interesting that you you mentioned Mary, Queen of Scots, because you know, a bit like Anne Boleyn, she does seem to have various places that she becomes associated with in England as well.

I mean, I can think of a location up in in the north of England where a staircase that was part of where she was, she was held, was relocated to a local inn.

19:23

And that's, that staircase is reported to be haunted.

People, you know, report having seen her on the staircase.

And that's just simply through this connection of the staircase having been removed and put somewhere else completely, entirely different.

19:39

But yet this story then comes through about her and this connection.

So, yeah, it's interesting that she does seem to to get around.

There's so many locations with a story attached to her.

And it, it makes sense because like the other things that you reference, these are parts of the history that have really lasted.

20:00

They were significant, they were momentous.

These were very key important people and time frames.

And so it's it's understandable that so much of the law and the storytelling and the the legends and the things that have been birthed from that.

20:17

That part of history comes through in the in the ghost stories and everything else that we have today.

Yeah, there's also that the there are a lot of ghosts associated with some of the the battles from clans.

There's an area in the sky called Sligakin that is I think it's more commonly associated with a ghost car.

20:39

I think it's a 1930s Austin memory serves, but there's also.

There's a famous chap who is a Sir, but his name escapes me, who was camping in a Glen in Sligakin and he saw what he took to be a group of Highlanders kind of making their way undercover through the Heather in the middle of the night.

21:03

And they were dressed in kilts.

They were dressed in, I think it was 16th century clothing.

There's so many castles that have like a phantom paper or something along those lines, you know, a Jacobite running through away from the, the dungeons and things like that.

So there's so much bloodshed and trauma.

21:21

It's sort of seeped into the, the land and some of the old buildings around.

Really, you can.

Like I'd said earlier, you get that real.

Feeling and that sense of history around you.

I think I remember looking at a database several years ago where they were basically comparing and contrasting across Europe the, the types of atrocities and bloodshed and warfare and persecution, You know, the, the geographical land mass connected to the, the kind of the, the numbers of people that live there.

21:59

And from memory, looking at that database, Scotland had the highest number of deaths through wars, through persecution per kind of square kilometre higher than any other country.

Countries much broader, much bigger in terms of land mass compared to Scotland had so little in comparison.

22:21

And I think that just really highlights exactly what you said, which is that you know that this is a land that has had so much turmoil and so much bloodshed that I think you really do see it coming through in sounds that are reported experiences, sightings, such a rich variety of phenomena that captures some of that history.

22:45

That's a really good way to to think about it.

And you need to send me the link to that.

I'd love to have a look at that.

But if we think about Edinburgh, if you you think about the the ghosts.

From Edinburgh, it's like I mentioned, it's the Vault, it's Mr. Boots and it's Greyfriars or Mary King's close.

23:03

But I've I've kind of plotted out.

I've got a.

A map of Edinburgh on my wall and I've plotted out the different ghost stories that I know just in the Royal Mail and there's about 36 and that's in a square mile area of one city.

If you go beyond that you've got the new town.

23:20

And then there's there's one St. in the new town where I think there's 5 ghost stories, really strange ghost stories associated with it and a half mile square radius.

But Edinburgh Castle was is the most besieged building in the whole of Britain.

I think it's been besieged something like 26 times and there are there are a whole.

23:39

Lot of ghosts.

Associated with Edinburgh Castle but just down that the Royal Mail which leads down from the castle at 36 different ghost stories that I'm aware of and I know that there are probably more shows that so much has gone on in that time you know the land that Edinburgh Castle is on used to be home to an Iron Age Fort I think it was the Votadini tribe who inhabited that area before you know modern people did 60,000 people used to live in the Royal Mile which is when you think about it as a tiny area and that's where the first the world's first skyscrapers came from we had 14 Storey buildings the top 7 storeys had to be made from wood because we couldn't build in stone above that so you.

24:23

Had the rich.

People in the the stone buildings below that and the poor people the desolate above that, who couldn't light a fire.

You had 15 to 20 people to A room.

So there was.

Terrible things that happened in there.

And then you've got the underground vaults where sometimes you had 50 people in a room the size of the room that I'm sat in just now in my Edinburgh tenement.

24:44

Sterling Castle as well is is a really haunted place that's been besieged lots and lots of times and there's a famous ghost, I think it's the Pink Lady, who her husband if memory serves, was killed and she's seen leaving the castle going down to the graveyard.

25:00

Searching for his body.

So, you know, we, we, we love a fight in Scotland and we love to fight people who invade Scotland and we just love to fight each other.

So there's there's been a lot of bloodshed.

So could you tell us some of your favorite locations that are featured in both Hidden Haunts, the book and and of course on Erie Edinburgh, the podcast?

25:22

Yeah, well, there are a lot, so it's really difficult to choose.

The stories that have really stuck out with me.

I love the ironic stories because they're they're kind of old fashioned Scottish, more folklore than ghost lore.

I love the Museum of Edinburgh stories that one of the subscribers, a young last called Lindsay, sent in.

25:45

I've been around the Museum of Edinburgh so many times, never thought it was haunted.

And she told me some really unsettling things about that place.

And children laughed and laughing shadows chasing her.

So I always, you know, always have a look over my shoulder when I visit there Now.

26:02

I think the, the, the one story that's always stuck out with me since from when I was a young kid is Queensbury House, which is a 17th century Manor house down the Royal Mile.

It's currently now used as the place that this the admin staff and the secretaries working for the Scottish Parliament.

26:24

But the history of that place is just crazy.

And the main thing about the story is that it was the Marquess of Queensbury who lived there at the time that the main event happened.

And it was the day that the Act of Union was signed.

So it was either you were for the Act of Union, so you went to celebrate, or you were against it like most of the population at the time where and you rioted.

26:47

So that it's kind of did he go to celebrate or did he escape because he was one of the people that pushed for the Act of Union, but he left his son who would have required some special care.

He left them alone in the basement with just the kitchen boy to look after the house.

27:04

And his son managed to escape from his his confines.

I think he was 12 and the kitchen boy was 10.

And when the family came back from either partying or or fleeing, they walked in to find that the son had murdered the kitchen boy and was roasting him on a spit.

27:23

So that's quite a horrific story to hear about in the 1st place.

But then that's led to the haunting.

And it's believed that the son who'd committed the ACT, he, he died.

He, you know, as as rich people managed to at the time, rather than face justice, he was sent away.

27:38

He didn't quite get the titles that his father had, but he was given some titles to match his status.

But he, he died a few few years later, still quite young.

And it's believed that his ghost now haunts the kitchen that the young kitchen boy was killed in.

27:55

I kind of thought of that as just a, you know, the mark was at Queensbury supported something that was really unpopular at the time.

So people tried to demonize them.

But it's apparently it's a true story that they kept.

The fire that the the kitchen boy was roasted over is now part of the the bar for the staff in Queensbury House.

28:16

You can see pictures of it if you go online and there are reports from I think it's the 50s and 60s when it was a, a nursing home that nurses would be pinned against the wall by a dark shape, which said just, you know, I read, I remember reading about those and it just filled me with dread.

28:34

And I can't find that story anymore.

I don't know where I read it.

I definitely read it.

I don't know where it is.

So that's another one of the reasons why I, I really want to keep these stories going because there are, there are the cannibal aspect is quite well known, but the ghost story aspect isn't known.

28:50

So I really want to keep that part of it alive.

So that's this.

That's probably my favorite ghost story from the the ones that I've covered so far.

And as we've kind of spoken about earlier, we know, I think both within the book and as part of the podcast, I mean, again, you really helped to, to draw in and help people to understand that broader Scottish landscape to really kind of get a feel for the, for the locations that you're exploring and you're covering.

29:20

How do you think, you know, the, those unique elements, the, the differences between these regions comes through in the supernatural history, the ghost stories, the, the legends and the law?

How do you see those things being reflected in the stories that still exist today?

29:39

The more rural you you go, the more lore you encounter rather than a haunting if that makes sense.

And within Edinburgh?

I I find there's a little bit of a split as well.

You know, the the Old Town seems to be the more traditional apparition, the footsteps, the the the paper, the black lady or the Lady in Black of Chesil's.

30:05

Court.

If you go further out.

To the new town, which was built in the 1700s, you get some really odd stories that are essentially apparitions but really sinister tone undertone to them, rather than just the kind of, you know, this is a ghost and it's seen at this time.

30:26

You know, the Buckingham Terrace is the one that sticks out where there's a ghost of a captain.

He lived above a young family who had a baby.

It's quite a.

Gruesome tale but he couldn't cope with a child crying so he he murdered the baby and he hit the baby's head in a grandfather clock.

30:45

And years after another family moved in and the mother would hear running up and down the the staircase and on one night her bedroom door when she was on her own, a bedroom door burst.

And then there was this looming silhouette of a large man dressed as a sea captain standing in the doorway.

31:06

And it's actually followed up the stairs one day and it LED her to the the grandfather clock.

You've made me serious.

And there's the Learmouth Gardens, which is a sacrum was taken from a tomb in the Valley of the Kings that had just been opened.

31:23

And as you can imagine, you steal something, particularly from from ancient Egypt.

It comes with something, you know it, you bring it home with you.

And that adds some really strange aspects that I think wider Scotland, you know, more rural Scotland, it's more like the cognac, which is a variant of the banshee.

31:44

It's a harbinger of doom.

You've got selkies, kelpies, that kind of folklore.

In the the urban areas, it's more the hauntings and there are different types of hauntings within those hauntings.

Some of those that you've mentioned, things like the banshee, you really do see these, these traditions are very early oral storytelling, you know, things that you see across Ireland in the same manner.

32:07

These these very early explanations for certain aspects of life and the fact that they still exist in these places I think really does speak to the landscape as well.

And the connections with the landscape and the folklore tradition.

Because they would have been something very much told from place to place and carried from place to place and you know, family member to family member and passed down either as you know, warnings or something else, something to learn from it.

32:38

You know, these were the tales to help them live the land and and work the land and understand the land and know the dangers around them because these were dangerous places you need to be out in the Wilder more rural landscapes was more treacherous just by the nature of them.

32:54

Yeah, some of the stories persist to this day.

You know that the the last one that covered was the.

Durness Man's.

Which there's a story.

From the 19th century of what was purported to be a cognac, the minister that lived there had a friend over and he answered the door to a weathered old man who just basically disappeared in front of him.

33:15

And this scared the minister so much that he ran back to where he lived in in the place called Kinlochberry.

And then the guy was in good health.

His health just deteriorated and within a month he was dead.

So that, you know, the local speak of it has been a harbinger of his death.

33:34

It's the cognac at times can wail and scream, but it's not really associated with that, that scheme of the banshee.

But it's still spoken about.

I know somebody who lives up that way.

And, you know, among the older people, they kind of still talk about the man's and what happened to the minister there.

33:54

So although it's it's an ancient belief, it is still prevalent in some of the the people that live in these areas.

As you know, we've kind of alluded to, you know, Edinburgh really is a location known for its haunted reputation.

34:10

As you mentioned, just that 11 area that the number of, of reportings that you've managed to collect and and piece together.

What would you say are some of the most chilling locations that you've discussed and researched that have made it into the book or onto the podcast?

34:28

The place that that actually fills me with a wee bit of fear is Learmouth Gardens.

That's the one with the sacrum that was stolen.

You know, there's something about an Egyptian curse that's always filled me with a bit of dread.

And to have one that's it's basically a mile and a half along the road from me.

34:46

It looks like a Georgian townhouse.

It looks nice, but it's, it's always, it's now split into flats and it's always got a for let's sign or a for sale sign.

And it feels like the haunting is still ongoing.

And I have a friend called Jonathan Talon from North Edinburgh Nightmares who interviewed.

35:05

A guy who did Reiki, he had his Reiki studio in there and he's.

Said that he sees shapes, you know, moving in and out of the rooms.

So that place is always made me feel uncomfortable when I'm close to or well, when I'm in the vicinity.

But doing the, the easy stuff there are there are other places and it's the normal places that feel the most chilling.

35:28

There's a story that I discovered that I hadn't heard about until the end of last year.

I think it was of haunting Victorian era haunting in Blacket Place.

I used to walk past Blacket Place all the time.

It's on the the road to the main swimming pool in Edinburgh.

35:46

So as a kid, that's the way that I used to go all the time.

Never once thought this really strange and unusual Victorian haunting that had happened there.

That one's made the list.

There's AI had a friend who gave me a story of a place in Bearsden that her her friend owned and she'd stayed in a few nights and her mother had come up and stayed.

36:09

It's a very strange one because she, she lived on the 1st floor and in the guest room where my friend would stay, she would wake up at night and see the face of a young woman in like maybe 19th century factory type clothes is the only way I can describe it.

36:26

Looking in the window, looking directly at her, kind of snarling at her.

And that the thing that that really stuck out to her was that the woman had sharp teeth.

And then she realized she's on the 1st floor.

You know, nobody's that tall that they can look in a window.

And there was no way that the person could have climbed up.

36:44

So, you know, that's Bearsden in Glasgow is a nice, it's an affluent area.

I don't know many stories around there.

I don't know much about Bearsden other than it's got quite a bit of Roman history.

So to hear somebody who, who I know, who I respect, you know, I won't say what line of work she's in, but it's quite a, a serious line of work.

37:01

To hear her matter of fact tell me there was a woman floating outside the window with short teeth, teeth snarling at me really does send shivers down the spine.

And again, it's one of these ordinary locations that you can walk past every single day.

Yeah, they have a they have a uniqueness to them, don't they?

37:21

Because it's that unassuming.

You don't expect something, but yet there's something about them that draws you in.

And when you hear the stories that can be attached to the most unassuming place, again, I think it just it's they create those hairs on the back of the neck moment, don't they?

37:39

Because they're just so unexpected but at the same time also expected, which is weird.

Yeah, there's one also that's a bit more dramatic that stands out for different reasons.

It's a Broomhill house in Larkhall, which is out to the West Coast towards Glasgow.

37:57

It it was again, it was one I'd never.

Heard of before?

It was somebody that speak to on Twitter contacted me and asked me if I knew about it.

It didn't.

And as soon as I started reading about it, wow, how did how does the story?

How has it not reached a bigger audience?

And the story is the term is used.

38:15

It's the black lady of of Larkhall.

And it was a woman from India called Sitapodine.

So black ladies because of her ethnic background, but she basically was brought over to Larkhall, probably as a mistress of the landowner.

I think again, it was one of the Setons who are the people who owned the, the family that owned the, the Leymouth Gardens house.

38:35

The scenes were quite a powerful clan in Scotland.

And she was very, very unhappy and she ended up disappearing.

And the story was that she'd got on the train and gone back to India, but she was seen at a time after the last train had left.

38:53

But I think it was one of the servants.

And then the next again day was when the story came out that she she had left.

So even though the timing of her being able to leave didn't match with the witness account that she was seen after the train had left, she was never seen again.

39:10

But our ghosts started to be seen again.

So it's kind of one of these ones that's like a true, it's got a true crime element to it.

And it's got a traditional haunting, you know, women in the black dress wandering the grounds of what is now a ruined house.

I just found that story absolutely fascinating.

39:27

And I had no idea about the story until I was contacted on Twitter about it.

So can you share any particular stories from places like the Governor's House or Craig Miller Castle that again just has left that lasting impression for you?

39:43

Yeah, well, the the Governor's House is is a house within the grounds of Edinburgh Castle.

So Edinburgh Castle sits atop a volcanic.

Plug.

It's a walled castle.

It's a medieval castle with more modern editions and the governor's house, like you would imagine, is where the governor of the castle would stay.

40:02

It's quite a grand house.

It was used to various times as a barracks for some of the troops that were staying there.

And there's a story that 2 two of the the soldiers were staying in a bedroom within the house.

Before they got into the bed, they were doing, you know, sitting around the campfire telling each other ghost stories.

40:22

And one of them was a believer.

One of them wasn't.

They thought nothing more of it, retired up to their their bunks to go to sleep for the night.

And then they heard thunderous footsteps running up the stairs and the door to the room flew open.

I think that happened twice.

40:39

Each time it flew open.

Nobody was there and they, they went down and the front door to the house as well was wide open, but the sound of the door being flung open down the stairs, it sounded like it should have come off its hinges, but it wasn't.

It was still attached and no damage done to the door at all.

40:56

They, they, they later did some research and they found out that the day that that happened was the day, I think that the side of the governor's wife or children or both had drowned in an accident on the, on a ship on the 4th and 4th, which is the river that feeds into the North Sea to the north of Edinburgh.

41:17

So it's kind of that residual haunting type thing.

So what they were experiencing was the messenger coming up, running up the stairs to tell the governor, throwing the doors open at the time that these, these events had happened.

Oh, I like that story because that's a traditional story.

41:35

There's it's not overplayed.

It's just something happened twice that there was no explanation for and then they found an historical element that would support it.

The Craig Miller Castle is it's quite an ancient castle.

It's a bit of a ruin, though it's still quite impressive if you look at it.

41:53

If you've ever watched the the Chris Payne film about Robert the Bruce outlaw King.

That's what's called, some of that was set in Craig Miller Castle.

And that, you know, I, I went to school in an area fairly close to Craig Miller Castle.

So there was always these stories about the ghosts and things like that, which as I grew up, I kind of just put down the childhood imagination.

42:14

I remember a school trip to Craig Miller Castle and going in the dungeons and there's an alcove near the dungeon and somebody was screaming that there's a green hand that tried to grab them, which terrified us.

I think we were eight or nine at the time.

So we we all run screaming to the teacher but there was there was nothing there, the kid had just real overreacted.

42:35

But that that place has always had that EV element to it in my mind and I didn't really realise that it also was haunted until probably 5 or 6 years ago when I'd read some of the accounts.

And it's your traditional castle haunting.

42:50

I think there's a white lady there.

There's also a guy who was witnessed floating across the fields towards the castle by some of the locals.

He was witnessed on a couple of occasions.

And interestingly, the ghetto Lindsay that I mentioned earlier who related to her experiences in the Museum of Edinburgh also has a picture from a trip to Craig Miller Castle, which is you can see the castle.

43:13

There's a farmers field in front of it with wheat and things like that.

And it does look like there is a hooded floating figure in the middle of the field.

I have to say that, you know, there's there's wheat in front of it and things that so you don't really get a sense for it, but it really fits in with the description that the locals had when they they saw the figure floating across the field.

43:39

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47:26

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47:43

Let us venture forth for the journey into the unknown has only just begun.

So kind of thinking about the the research that you have done for the podcast and for the book, are there any certain types of themes or patterns, you know, spirits, hauntings that you would say are fairly unique to Scotland?

48:12

It's, it's back to the folklore thing.

I think, you know, selkies and kelpies are Scottish.

They've been a wee bit dignified these days.

You know, if you think about a kelpie, you think of a playful water horse.

But the reality of the stories behind the kelpies or it would drag you to the bottom of a river or a Loch and Disenbiolian eat you.

48:33

There's a a terrible story of two young girls from maybe the 1600s who had disobeyed their, their father, who was a clan chief.

And it's they were adventurous and they wanted to spend the night away and they got caught in a storm and a woman, an old woman, offered them shelter in her her Croft.

48:53

One of the daughters woke up in the middle of the night to a warm sensation touching her side and she heard a laughing sound.

And it was the woman who'd who was a kelpie, had started to eat her sister.

And when she escaped, the woman turned into the get a traditional water horse image and started to chase after her.

49:13

She managed to get back to the castle in town, which is a hell of a feat if you think about how long they were supposedly away from the castle for.

But they're the kind of things that are very Scottish.

You've you've obviously got the kilted pipers that you know you're not going to find anywhere else.

49:31

I love a story from a place called Diabag up in I think it's in Sutherland or Westeros right up north about a postman who was allowed by his his wife.

I think this was around about 1910 something like that to go out for Hogmany to have a drink but he had to be back for 9 O clock.

49:52

You can tell where this the story is going probably.

So he he was making his way back through the the mountain pass that he would have needed to get to where he was going and he saw a headless celted ghost approach him.

The ghost was holding its head under its arm and as it got closer, he realized it was the same tartan from the clan that he was in.

50:13

I think, I think it's a Mackay tartan, but I could be wrong.

So he got, I hate to use the term face to face because this is a headless ghost, but he got really close to the ghost.

The ghosts got to him and spoke to him and said that he had to find somebody who who was of the same clan as him to be able to pass over to the next life on this day.

50:34

And it just so happened that that's what what had happened.

And the ghost explained that he had met another clan chief and they were going to resolve their clan conflicts by one-on-one combat.

He'd arrived early and decided to have a sleep and the other clan chief had arrived at the proper time.

50:53

And as he saw that the clan chief was.

Asleep, he decided to take his chance and he cut his head off.

So, you know, these are very, very Scottish stories.

I'm pretty sure that the postman, I'd just had a couple of whiskeys too many and was a wee bit late and needed an excuse to tell his wife for why he was late.

51:11

But it's still a great Scottish story.

I mean, it's got the kilts, it's got the tartans, it's got the whiskeys, it's got Hogmanays.

So that kind of story, I think is very Scottish.

Yeah, the perfect excuse for for getting out of trouble, isn't it really?

It's the dog ate my homework scenario.

51:28

Yeah.

With so many kind of stories then to choose from and in terms of your ethos and, and the message that you want to bring for either the readers, you know of the book, your listeners for the podcast, what would you say people can expect, you know, that they can take away from these stories that you're sharing in terms of the understanding of the country's past, the history.

51:53

What do you think these these stories can tell us to even a modern audience today?

Good.

Question I I hope that it tells us it's, it's more than just an apparition or a ghost.

52:09

It's a story.

The ghost was someone.

Yeah, I, I quite like the idea.

I'm not 100% sold and whether it's, it's, it's fact, but I like the idea of the stone tape theory where it's a replay, you know, it feels like we get a glimpse into the past.

52:26

So that really, really resonates with me.

It makes you think what happened to 'cause that event, you know, that I mentioned earlier, the the lady in black in Chesil's court is a replay of, of a woman walking across a room dressed in a black dress.

52:43

What was she doing at that moment?

What's the history behind that?

With some of the other tales, like Culloden, there's stories of a woman, and I think it's in the 30s, walk in the battlefield and she saw a piece of tartan lying on the ground, big piece of tart.

52:58

And she lifted up and there was a dead or a wounded, mortally wounded Jacobite soldier lying underneath him.

Who was he?

What happened to him?

What happened to him after he passed?

You know, there's the same place, Culloden, there's a Jacobite who's seen wandering around completely dejected, muttering to himself again, who was who was that?

53:22

What was his history?

So I think what I want from people to take from, from these stories is how we all have an understanding that Scotland is a, an historic location.

It's got a lot, a lot of history, a lot of intrigue, bloodshed, things like that.

53:41

But just how rich and complex it is.

I've, I've learned so much from just some of these stories, like the rough wing that I, I mentioned earlier.

I didn't realise how.

Destructive that was to Scotland, and all because Henry wanted to solidify his lineage.

54:01

You know he basically rained Hellfire down on Scotland that the East Lothian Haddington were.

Were laid to waste because of his desire to keep the power.

So you know, we, we know that England invaded Scotland and Scotland has invaded England many times.

54:17

But this hopefully brings a ties up the the narrative and brings.

A greater understanding of what's happened and how these things came about, like the Queensbury House stuff, the, the signing of the Act of Union.

54:33

I'm, I'm not going to get political here, but it's, it's pictured as quite a glorious event.

And, and the UK, you know, people, people like being part of the UK, but at the time it was really unpopular and I didn't really understand that until I started to research the Queensbury House stories.

54:50

So there's more to the history than we we read about in the sound bites and things like that.

So hopefully that kind of answers the question.

That's just really to try and demonstrate how rich and complex the history to this country really is.

Well, I think it I think it brings the history into something very real and tangible, which is the human experience.

55:14

Suddenly something that feels so far removed is suddenly something far more personable that we can understand because we can see it and understanding understand it through the lens of the person who is the, the central kind of perspective of that story or focal point of that story.

55:32

And it's suddenly so much more real and emotive and connective.

And I think that is again, just a such a powerful way of being able to understand history.

Yeah, You know, I, I write about this in the book.

I talk about it a wee bit on some of the episodes.

55:49

But I think to understand the mystery, you really have to understand your history as well.

You're missing a trick if you if you don't marry the two together.

And the history is often just as interesting and fascinating as the ghost aspect of it as well.

56:06

So whilst you were, you know, writing the book and gathering all the information and researching that you did, were there any surprises, you know, any particular haunted sites that really just made you pause and maybe shift your perspective on a location or on Scottish ghost?

56:24

Lauren General.

Yeah, good question.

So I mentioned Blackett Place, I guess the other one is one that's not in the book, but it's covered in on the podcast.

One of the early episodes.

It's called The Haunting of the attic #17 it's very, very similar story to the Berkeley Square stories down in London where there's an attic room that people are terrified and scared to death in.

56:56

I thought because it's so similar to these stories, it's, it's set in the the early 20th century rather than the 18th century like Berkeley Square.

But I thought because it's so similar, it has to be made-up.

But talking and working with John from North Edinburgh Nightmares that I mentioned earlier, he he's been able to locate the place and it was a real place.

57:19

And at one point it was, it was used as AB and B.

So, you know, that kind of made me realize not all of these stories are just made-up, just nonsense.

Just I think we talked about earlier just to scare the kids from stopping them going into the woods or going near the water.

There's tangible aspects to some of these stories.

57:37

That one was a real wow.

There's something to that one.

I'm glad it doesn't.

It's not a standing building anymore.

It's been removed, knocked down.

But yeah, it really made me think.

So something that's kind of also really important for me is obviously that the, these historical sites and how we maintain the, the reputation that they have, you know, the haunted reputation that they have.

58:02

They're the history that they have.

You know, how we maintain the, the, the facts, the real kind of history, the real stories, you know, despite this long passage of time and, and how it, they can be shift, you know, they can shift and change.

What role do you see, you know, things like legend and folklore?

58:21

How do how do those help to keep the real history, the real storytelling alive?

So I, I think like I mentioned earlier, you have to look beyond the vaults and Greyfriars.

They're world famous and they take all the attention there.

58:36

There is quite a strong community of storytellers within Scotland and with throughout the UK.

You know, some, some people I speak to Owen State and in in Wales and people like that are, are themselves keeping the stories alive and bringing them to the masses and telling them in ways that really resonate with people.

58:59

Blending the history and the supernatural aspect to to these stories helps keep that.

Legend going how do we maintain the reputation?

So I guess we just need to keep talking about them, shining a spotlight on them as much as we possibly.

59:15

Can stuff like what you do, you know where you bring quite an academic and forgive me if I'm putting you on the spot here, but.

What I feel.

From your podcast is you bring a different angle to things.

59:31

You know, you really some of the people you get on you, you you talk at an academic level, which probably doesn't make any sense, but does in my head, if that if that makes sense.

We just really need to talk about it.

But but look at it from all angles.

Rather than just supernatural or the historic aspect to it.

59:49

I think the fact is that, you know, we, we keep the uniqueness, we keep what we need to from these locations relevant by like you said, just looking at it and exploring it from different perspectives, different voices.

Different opinions, rightly or wrongly, you know, sharing their take, whether it is from the historical aspect, whether it is from the folklore aspect and what that can shed light on, whether it's from someone who has a real deep understanding of some, you know, parapsychological aspect.

1:00:24

I mean, they all together combine all of that just helps to, like you said, put this spotlight on some very important history, some very important locations, some very important stories that if we don't continue to do this, could just so easily be lost to time.

1:00:42

I mean, gosh, you blink and something new has happened.

Our world is always changing.

We are a world.

We are a collection of stories, and so much of that could so easily be lost if we don't continue to tell the stories that have been important to us for centuries.

1:01:04

And I think that is important.

I think that matters to maintain what has been kept going for so long, to not lose that connection to those threads of the past and how they they relate to us in the present.

You said it spot on.

1:01:22

I, I, I literally can't say it any better than how you've, you've positioned it.

You know, if we think of who we are as a people, we, we might not know it, but we love storytelling that think about when on a a Sunday, you sit down to watch the telly, you're watching somebody tell you a story.

1:01:39

It might be a soap, it might be the news, but it's a narrative, It's a story.

So it's about how we find ways to tell these stories that reach a a wider audience or engage with people that might not necessarily like.

I've traditionally have liked these types of stories.

1:01:55

I, I never really was that interested in the folklore side of things.

I always liked the ghostly aspects, the Lord from the haunting side of things.

But the more I learn about it, the more I'm like, wow, this is really interesting.

And it helps you when you're, when you're positioning these stories, it helps you position them in a way that kind of leans into the historical aspect and build, just build up the, the folk story, you know, I, I.

1:02:23

When I started the area, Edinburgh was like, it's going to be a big ghost.

I don't want any folklore.

And I've written two stories that feature the Cognog and I think I've mentioned kelpies and and things like that, which I.

Sort of started out thinking I'm not going to do that, but it's just so integral to Scottish history and the people of Scotland that it it bleeds into it.

1:02:45

So yeah, how you positioned it as spawn?

So kind of speaking from, you know, your own perspective, you know, whether it's locations that you've explored as part of of researching again for the book and for the podcast or just your own experiences in, in general.

1:03:02

But you know, just asking if you have any of your own personal paranormal experiences from, like I said, some of these locations that you've spoken of or just your own personal experiences in general.

I have, yeah, there's, there's three.

1:03:19

Things that that spring to mind, one of them, I'm not sure what it was.

Two of them potentially you could say were ghost or something supernatural.

The first one was when I was around 15 or 16.

I had a part time job.

1:03:34

My parents were self-employed, so they worked quite late.

I worked on a Friday night, so I would get home about 7:00 and my parents would probably come home about 8:00 or nine.

It was winter, I think 1990 or 1991.

I got home from work, sat on the telly to switch the telly on because this was before we cared about climate change and we didn't turn the telly off at the plug.

1:03:57

We switched off on standby, picked up the remote and looked at the telly and I could see in the reflection of the telly a man standing on my left hand side in the doorway into the living room.

The hall light was on and he was perfectly silhouetted.

1:04:13

And I sat with the remote in my hand, pointing at the staring, thinking who's that?

I had my dog with me.

We had a Siberian Husky called Lobo, and he didn't react at all.

He just slept.

So I, I sat as this, you know, the old cliche.

1:04:30

It felt like about 10 minutes, but it was probably only two or three seconds looking at this character.

And he turned and as he spun, his jacket kind of billowed out so I could see that he was wearing a trench coat, and he had what I took to be like a fedora hat.

So I sat for a few more seconds, and then the realization hit me that I probably should go and check that we don't have an intruder in the house.

1:04:51

I did.

I checked all the doors.

I checked all the windows.

All of them were locked.

I couldn't see any way that anybody could have been in the house.

So I thought, you know what?

I'm going to go and sit outside until my parents get home because I'm not sitting in the house on my own.

My folks got home and it was cold wise outside of the chattering through my teeth.

1:05:10

I was just after some fresh air.

But I I never experienced anything else in that house, just that one thing.

So I've never thought of it as a haunted house.

I've often wondered if I was just tired after work because I'd been at school earlier in the day, or if I actually saw something.

1:05:27

I'm not quite sure.

The other thing that happened that potentially would be supernatural was in the vaults.

I think it was the Blair St.

Vaults at I, I went down for one of the tours when I'd not long moved back through to Edinburgh.

1:05:43

And to my right was an American couple.

And they were about 6 feet away from me and there was nobody in between US.

And we were a couple of feet back from the, the bulk of the group, which was probably about 10 to 15 people.

And about a foot off the ground, maybe equidistant between me and the American couple.

1:06:03

I heard a growl like a dog growling.

I looked at the, the Americans and they said, did you hear that?

And I asked them what they heard and they said they heard a dog growl.

And I was like, that's exactly what I heard as well.

I can't explain how I know it was about a few off the ground, but I definitely heard something like that.

1:06:22

If you've ever been in the vaults, the acoustics can sometimes play tricks on you.

You know, you're under some roads with heavy traffic, travels over so you can hear rumbles and things like that.

Sometimes you can hear music from the pubs or the nightclubs.

I've never heard a dog growl before apart from that one time.

1:06:43

But the the main thing that's happened to me was on an island called Kia back in 2006.

My my ex-wife and I took a trip there.

She's a photographer and she was commissioned by the people of Kia to take some pictures for the website.

1:06:58

And we took my son there.

He was about 9 or 10 months old at the time.

We were, we were put up for free in a place called the Ferryman's Cottage.

It's, if you don't know where Gia is, it's off the West Coast, off the the coast of the Mulligan Tire.

It's about a 20 minute ferry, right?

1:07:15

For us it was about a 5 or 6 hour trip to get there.

So we got in.

Gabriel was still breastfeeding at the time, so Helena's job was to try and get him to sleep because he'd cried the whole way in the car and I, I kicked us lunch while she settled him down.

We had some soup and I decided I was going to wash up.

1:07:34

And when I was washing up, the toaster, which was to the left of the the kitchen sink, moved.

It wasn't like a really violent movement or anything, it was quite subtle, but I definitely saw a movement.

I can pick the toaster up and had a look underneath thinking I've been splashing the water from the sink and the coil.

1:07:54

The cable for the the toaster was kind of coiled up.

So I thought it's probably just tension being released in the cable and the water underneath had caused to lose friction and it slid.

So they I put that to the side of my head.

In my head I discovered the reason for the toaster movement.

1:08:11

So I thought nothing more of it.

And a wee bit after that I was pretty tired.

I still love a nap, and I loved a nap even more than, especially as we've been up since about 4:00 in the morning.

So I decided I was going to go up the stairs to have a nap in the main room.

When you enter the the the cottage, the living room is on the left, the kitchen was on the right, and the staircase, which doubled back on itself was straight in front of you.

1:08:37

At the top of the staircase, straight ahead was the bathroom that had a half rostered wooden door.

The main bedroom was to the left, which is where I went for a nap, and to the right was the spare bedroom which had one of those really creepy old Victorian style cots in it.

1:08:54

So I'm not a great sleeper when I'm not in my own bed.

I didn't really fall asleep.

I was up there for about an hour, but I just sort of lay there with my eyes closed feeling a wee bit uncomfortable.

I decided I'm just going to get back up.

So I went down the stairs and Helena, who was my ex-wife, approached me and she was like, what were you looking for when you got up?

1:09:15

And I hadn't been up.

I hadn't gotten out of the bed until I'd come back down the stairs.

I kind of recall the time where we'd gone for a walk through the woods called the The Hermitage of Parade in Edinburgh.

And she kind of got a wee bit freaked by something that we thought we saw in the trees and she ran away, which made it even worse for me.

1:09:36

And I, I decided that I would follow her and there's nothing scarier than trying to run through a forest when it's kind of twilight.

So that instantly popped in my head and I thought, I can't scare her here.

So I just made-up some excuse that I was having a look at the cot in the room next door.

That kind of settled her down and put her mind at ease.

1:09:56

But after that, nothing really happened other than we decided that we didn't really like the upstairs kind of independently off each other.

We just sort of agreed when it became it was time for bed that we didn't want to sleep up the stairs.

1:10:12

We wanted to sleep in the living room and our think it was that's because that's where the telly is.

So we can just put the make a bed out.

Like they take the mattress from up the stairs, use the pillows from the couches and things like that.

Nothing happened that night.

1:10:29

We did have to kind of stand at the bottom of the stairs to allow the other person to go to the bathroom if they wanted to go to the bathroom because we didn't feel really comfortable in the place.

And up the stairs felt the worst.

So that was the Friday.

The Saturday was fine.

1:10:45

The weather was terrible.

She didn't really get many good pictures because it was so dark, a kind of darkness that only you only get in Scotland and in the middle of summer.

Because we didn't like the upstairs and Gabriel was crawling at that time, we didn't want him to go up the stairs because we just wanted to avoid it as much as possible.

1:11:02

So we created a barricade at the bottom of the steps where we took like the coffee table.

I got the real rear parcel shelf from the car.

We took some of the spare pillows and we made this barricade that he couldn't get past.

You know, he's nine months, so he would have struggled to get over anything.

On the Sunday morning, we're packing up the car and we kind of realized that we couldn't see Gabriel.

1:11:24

I had a look in the the garden.

We couldn't see him.

It was enclosed.

It was fenced off.

He couldn't really have gotten anywhere.

We looked down the stairs.

We couldn't find them.

So the only place that he could have been was upstairs.

And I can remember moving the barricade out the way to get upstairs.

1:11:40

I don't remember anything being out of place.

And I went up the stairs and I found him playing on the floor in the middle of the main bedroom that I'd slept in.

I I remember walking clearly walking up the stairs thinking he's going to be speaking to somebody or he's going to be standing and walking or floating.

1:11:57

And thankfully he wasn't doing anything like that.

He was just sat in the middle of the floor being a nine month old kid.

So I don't know how he managed to get up past the the barricade.

I'm positive that I had to move everything to get up the stairs, but somehow he managed to get up there.

1:12:19

At that point we decided let's just go, let's just throw everything in the car and leave.

And when we got in the car, it was like something of a film.

As soon as we closed the door, it was like, I can't believe what that place was like.

And I told her about the toaster and she told me about the shadow.

She'd seen a shadow walk past, which I probably forgot to mention earlier when she she'd gone up to the bathroom and I'd gone for a nap and she'd seen a shadow walk past the the frosted glass door that she thought was me, but it wasn't.

1:12:48

So we all of these things came out and we went home.

We developed the pictures.

She'd taken some pictures on the last day of the Fairyman's cottage and into the pictures, one of them, which is the straight on shot of the cottage, you can see the bathroom and there's a light in the bathroom, which isn't the bathroom light.

1:13:07

It's it's a light source within the bathroom.

It's not a reflection on the glass.

You can tell that it's in the bathroom.

And then the the last picture that we looked at the cottage has a porch on the front glass porch.

And it, it looks like there's a a teenage boy peering round the glass looking directly at her when she's taking the picture.

1:13:31

But it's a silhouette.

And around the silhouette is that sort of iridescent colouring, you know, when you dip oil in water, that rainbow effect like an aura surrounding this figure.

And I don't know how to explain it other than I knew that he was looking at the camera.

1:13:48

I knew that he had dark hair and I knew it was a male.

He was about 13 or 14.

It turned out that Helena, her family is in part from that area and she's got, I think it was an aunt who's a bit of a local historian.

And she had told us afterwards when we'd spoken about it, that somebody had been murdered in the cottage, I think in the 50s or the 60s, which would kind of explain some of the the events that happened.

1:14:14

I haven't ever been able to find any proof of of that happening.

But it really just adds that we made an intrigue to, to a story that I can't quite explain.

I don't know if it's a ghost story.

I don't know if it's the stress.

We just missed something and a load that managed to let Gabriel go upstairs, but everything together it just it really.

1:14:35

It's one place I would love to go back, but it would have to be with the lights on.

Gosh, yeah.

I think it just, there's so many unknowns about it.

And there's, I mean, there's something very powerful in the description that you just gave in terms of that feeling that you had when you packed up and you all left.

1:14:53

Just being away from it.

Just that moment of that relief and kind of sharing of each other's experiences.

I mean, that is like something straight out of a movie, isn't it?

You can almost picture it as the car goes away up the drive and the, the, you know, the property is there in the background just looming.

1:15:12

There's so many unknowns.

That's rather rather intriguing, even as someone who didn't obviously witness those things first hand, hearing them second hand from you.

Very compelling stuff.

It's a very, very strange place.

I think, you know, going through that, it helped me.

1:15:34

You know, I genuinely, I don't know what it was that the, the imagination in me runs riot, but I, I, I'm also quite a rational person.

So I like to keep myself grounded about that.

And I think that I hope that kind of comes across with the writing and the storytelling.

1:15:55

You.

You probably experience it yourself when you, you switch on a paranormal program.

It's so over the top these days, particularly American ones.

And you lose the, you know, there's so many, they scream so much and they shout so much that you lose the real fear.

1:16:10

You get the freight factor, but you don't get the, the creep factor.

So I, I, you know, I think it's, hopefully it's.

Kind of helped.

Me ground the stories, but just keep it on a a more human level rather than a a fantastical level because it was quite a human experience.

1:16:28

There was nothing really outrageous that happened.

You know, we didn't see a white lady roaming through the garden or anything like that.

There was a slight movement in the toaster, which could be explained.

There was a shadow that walked through past the bathroom door that again, it could be explained.

1:16:44

It could, you know, it could be a light reflection cast in shadows.

Gabriel, there could have been a way that he got up there that we just didn't notice at the time because we were panicking, you know, with us, he's our first kid and we were pretty inexperienced parents.

But it just all all these things together and the atmosphere in the place, it wasn't like malevolent.

1:17:08

It was just unnerving.

So it just made for a really grounded but creepy experience.

And that's what I try and bring across in the stories is the history aspect can lead to some of these can explain why these areas are haunted.

1:17:26

But the haunting, if it's a, you know, a good ghost story doesn't need embellishing.

It just needs told, if that makes sense.

And This is why I love your podcast and I love your writing.

Now that you know, you're starting to bring your books out, there is something so much more powerful when, like you say, you hear something that is grounded in a human experience, when it feels so much more human, so much more something you can relate to, less of the fantasy and more realism to it.

1:17:57

When it's grounded in just the history and the people, that's so much more powerful than any kind of spin that you can throw into it.

It's it becomes more real.

It makes it so much more alive, I think, and tangible to someone experiencing that story, either by reading it or hearing it.

1:18:17

That just makes it makes it perfect as it is.

It does not need anything else.

It detracts from the beauty of what I think those stories have to have to share or the properties and the locations and what they have to share.

So as I say, I think This is why I love what you do.

1:18:36

And for anybody you know who hasn't found your podcast or hasn't dived into your first book, Hidden Haunts, you know, it's something that I think you know, they will really appreciate in terms of how you go about sharing and telling these stories because you do it masterfully.

1:18:54

They are just brilliant, the way that you bring that across to your audience.

Thank you.

That's very kind of you to see.

So just to kind of finish on that note about, you know, hidden Haunts and, and the podcast, just as an overall message, what would you kind of say to anybody listening?

1:19:13

What are the the key takeaways, the key themes, the the kind of general fate flavour if you like, that people can expect if they come and listen to the podcast or or pick up hidden haunts today to have a read for themselves.

I think it's kind of what we've just discussed, that it's these are more human stories with history added to it.

1:19:36

We all know the history of Mary Queen of Scots.

We all know the Battle of Culloden.

But do we know the Battle of Kelly Cranky.

You know, do.

We know about the mass of Massacre of Glencoe, but do we know about the hauntings afterwards, the impact that I had on Scottish society afterwards?

1:19:55

It's it's about really bringing to light some of the along with the stories, the ghost stories, but also we better the history.

That people won't really get a chance to learn from the, the, I hate to use the term mainstream because that sounds like I'm going hard on the mainstream media and things like that.

1:20:13

But there's so much, there's hundreds, potentially thousands of years worth of stories there that I hope to tell.

So hopefully I can help bring that deeper understanding of this.

This is Scotland, it's not the the Tati tartan gift shops on the Royal Mail.

1:20:32

It's not going from Edinburgh to sky like meme map of what Americans think Scotland is like.

It's just Edinburgh and sky.

That's a map of Scotland.

There's so much to it.

You know, Glasgow, I'm finding out so many stories about Glasgow.

I always thought of Glasgow as more of it's only really come around since the industrial revolution, but there's so much more history there.

1:20:52

You know, I find out about the relationships of the bishops of Glasgow with Robert the Bruce and things like that and Dumfries and Galloway and Air the connections for like Rabby Burns, the Highland Clearances.

I'm learning so much more about that with some of these stories.

1:21:09

And that's the kind of thing that I think people really from the comments that I get through the YouTube channel, they really like that aspect of it.

And there's so many people who have got from, from the Highland clearances Scotland basically like the, the Irish as well at times with the potato farming and things have had to emigrate to other parts of the country.

1:21:29

So there's all these familiar routes that people want to know more about Scotland and know more about their clans or their family or their history.

So hopefully I can help bring that to life and, and bring a deeper understanding of, of that.

1:21:45

And the main thing is that there's there's more to Scotland than just Greyfriars, Mary King's close and the Edinburgh Vaults.

So looking forward, are there any specific regions or untold stories you know in Scotland that you really hope to explore in future books or podcasts?

1:22:03

Episodes to come.

Yeah, the the North Coast 500 route is is full of stories.

I think there's about 60 stories in the book.

Some of them are just, you know, this, there's a story from store which is on the northwest coast near a place called Akhmelvik, beautiful beaches up that way.

1:22:26

And there's a story of a guy walking the the road late at night and he was confronted by a dog like creature that I think had antlers and was breathing fire, which is a very folklore type story.

But then if you travel further around the route to Caithness, you've got the castle of May, which was before Glam's castle was where the Queen Mother used to spend their time, which is really haunted.

1:22:52

So, you know, I could do probably a couple of years worth of stories based on just what I've uncovered about the North Coast 500.

I'd also like to do more focus around the Old Town of Edinburgh.

I've had somebody contact me recently with probably the creepiest ghost story I've ever heard.

1:23:14

And it's one of these stories that's corroborated by ABBC journalist who I spoke to a couple of weeks ago.

And it's just, I only know a wee bit about it.

It's been written up for me.

The, the person wants some time to go away and kind of gather their thoughts and remember the chronological order of things that happened.

1:23:32

But it's, it's in Parliament Square in Edinburgh, near where the old tool with jail used to be in St.

Giles Cathedral.

The, the flat that these people occupied, it was the top floor flat in two different flats, used to be the executioner's office, the executioner for Edinburgh.

1:23:53

And the story is that when the gallows were full, they used to use the office to hang people.

And, and one of the, the witnesses would see things like feet hanging through the roof of the bathroom when they were in the bathroom from people who had been hung.

1:24:09

And the, the BBC journalist just automatically adds an extra layer of gravitas to that.

And she's a very well educated woman and speaking to her, you can't help but be compelled by the, the again, the down to earth approach that she she takes to tell him the story.

1:24:29

It sounds like it starts off like something out of Ghostbusters.

When she moved in, she left a pile of boxes to unpack the next next again.

D woke up in the morning and the boxes were neatly packed, not the way that she'd left them.

She had her face, her hair brushed off her face by a cold hand and things like that.

1:24:47

I'm really excited to hear about this story.

And there are so many stories from that area that I, I think there's a book, you know, a really thick books worth of stories to explore more and for me to really get my teeth into.

So what's the the best place would you say for people to, you know, access the podcast, keep up to date with what you're doing and like you mentioned, future books and of course, get their hands on hidden Haunts, which is out now.

1:25:17

What's the best way that people can find those?

Well, you can find hidden haunts on Amazon.

It's published by Beyond the Free Publishing.

I'm delighted that it's been a best seller.

You know, it was a best seller after four weeks as well.

1:25:32

I thought I'd sell about 50 copies in its entire lifetime, but it's doing really well.

Lovely comments about it.

So you can find that on Amazon.

The best place to to find out the stories is probably the YouTube channel.

That's the most up to date the podcast as well.

1:25:47

You can download the podcast, which is the is the episodes from YouTube, just the the audio version of it you can get on Spotify, Apple podcasts, Pod beam, all the usual podcast providers.

And I've I've also got the the website evedinburgh.com and you can follow me on the usual places like Instagram and and Twitter.

1:26:09

And of course, I'll make sure that you know, those easy links for your website, your podcast, the book, all of those things that we've just kind of referenced.

I'll make sure that those easy links are available both on the website as well as the podcast description notes.

1:26:26

Because if people are listening and they haven't haven't listened to your podcast yet, then it's it's one I highly recommend.

I think you will absolutely love it.

I mean, it's it's my go to place if I need some calm moment in my life where I can just switch off and just absorb myself in some very good storytelling and history and just all of the things that give me goosebumps.

1:26:51

You know, if I need that little bit of solace, it's my go to podcast.

And likewise, you know, having had the book as soon as it came out, just being able to dive into that.

It's that same feeling.

It's just that same, same richness that you hear in the stories when you are listening to it.

1:27:11

You still get that same atmosphere when reading it.

I mean, they're both wonderful and they're both so unique, but they are both so you and, and I think that's what's special about both.

So they are something I very much highly recommend.

And so if, as I say, if anybody is listening to this and haven't discovered you yet, I hope they come over and take a listen, pick up your book and and take a dive into what it is that you have to offer, because I don't think they will be disappointed.

1:27:39

So thank you for for coming along and and helping giving a flavour of of hidden haunts, the Burke and Erie Eden Brother podcast to everybody listening to the podcast episode when this comes out.

1:27:55

Thank you.

It's it's been a genuine pleasure.

I could talk about ghosts all day, but your questions?

I've really been thought provoking.

You made me maybe think a little bit more about why I'm doing it and why it's important to me, so I really appreciate the opportunity to talk to you.

1:28:12

And I'll say goodbye to everybody listening.

Bye, everybody.

Thank you for joining us on this journey into the unknown.

If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, rate, and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform.

1:28:31

You can follow us on social media for updates and more intriguing stories.

Until next time, keep your eyes open and your mind curious.