The Ancient Ram Inn: A Visit To 'England's Most Haunted House' with Leanne Burnham-Richards

Speaker A: Hi everyone, and welcome back to Haunted History Chronicles. Before we introduce today's podcast or guest, if you like this podcast, please consider leaving a review. It costs nothing, but it helps share news of podcasts and guests I feature with others interested within the paranormal. It's a simple and easy way to help the podcast continue to grow and be a space for people to chat and come together. If you haven't already found us on the Haunted History Chronicles website, Instagram, Facebook or Twitter, you can find links to all social media pages in any of the notes for an episode. Come and join us to get involved and gain access to additional blogs, news and updates. And now let's get started introducing today's episode. Joining me today is Leanne Byrne Richards, the vice chair of the UK paranormal Society and until recently, the daytime tour guide of the ancient ram in. The ancient Ram Inn is the oldest building in wooden under edge in Gloucestershire. It's known for its strange history, mystery and connection with the paranormal. This 800 year old grade two former inn was once home to John Humphreys. Popular legend surrounding the inn involves the supposed burning of a witch in the 15 hundreds. Her spirit is reported to still haunt the room that she was found hiding in before her capture and death. John Humphries himself claimed to have been grabbed and dragged from his bed. It's a location that has been explored and investigated by paranormal researchers and television shows such as Most Haunted and Ghost Adventures. Leanne is passionate about the paranormal unity and about preserving heritage and history. She chatted with me about her role in the UK Paranormal Society and her vision and hopes for the future for what they want to accomplish. She also shares her knowledge and insight into the Ancient Ram Inn from her previous role as tour guide. So get ready to dive into the UK Paranormal Society and the Ancient Ram Inn's unique history, mysticism and paranormal reports, including Leanne's own first hand experiences. Hi, Leanne, thank you so much for joining me tonight.

Speaker B: Hi, Michelle, nice to meet you.

Speaker A: So, before we get started, do you want to just tell us a little bit about your background and how you became interested in the paranormal?

Speaker B: Sure. So I have been into the paranormal ever since I was a child, really? My dad used to let me watch horror films as a kid, so I would be watching Nightmare on Elm Street Child Play. It no more than 910 years old, so I spent a lot of my childhood doing the kind of usual games that you would play if you wanted to have a bit of fear factor in your life. So me and my friends, we would do like, ****** Mary and Candy Man and stuff where you knock on the mirror. I just ended up falling in love with that feeling of being afraid. And then as I got older, I started to watch the paranormal TV shows and I was like thinking, oh, that's pretty cool. People get to go to haunted buildings and investigate for a living. That's so cool. So I ended up seeing an advert on facebook and a local team were looking for investigators to join their events company. So I joined that and did that for a little while and then met paul from the UK paranormal society. And he told me about this fantastic idea. And that's what I've been doing for the past four years now, I believe. Yeah, 2019. Yeah, four years. It's gone by really fast.

Speaker A: It's a long journey, isn't it? And I know you've been there pretty much since the inception, since it began, and all that hard work that's been involved as part of that process. In terms of why you wanted to get involved, was there anything in particular that really drew you to the idea of the society and what it stood for, that you were just thinking, I really want to be part of that?

Speaker B: I think paul sold it to me as we were going to make a positive difference. And I loved the idea of kind of leaving behind a legacy, I guess, for my kids, because you look at the SPR and ASAP who have been around for SPR has been around for over 100 years. I can't remember the exact date. ASAP has been around since 81. And I just think, like, what a great legacy to be a part of this charity which is trying to improve the paranormal field for the greater good. And I know paul said the greater good a few times on the last podcast. Whenever we have team meetings, we're always like the greater good, and we're like the greater good. It's like kind of like kind of team motto.

Speaker A: It needs like the darth vader soundtrack or something.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's from hot fuzz, I believe the greater good, that's saying, anyway, so that's what we take it from. But yeah, I loved what the UK paranormal society stood for and it was an idea I could really get behind. I love the paranormal. I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't love the paranormal. But there's a lot of misunderstanding about the paranormal and the causes behind the paranormal. So it was great that we were going to create a database of guides and factual content for members of the public who might not know where to go.

Speaker A: And what I would say is, I mean, the podcast that Paul recorded hasn't been out for very long, and the number of messages that I've had about it via Spotify or just via DM or something across one of those different channels and platforms that I've got for the podcast basically kind of saying the same thing, which is that they really value a place where they can go to that signposts them to information. That is a place that is informative, that is unbiased and that kind of fits a need that they didn't realize they had until they saw what was on there. Really, those statements have been echoed honestly so many times now across all these different platforms. And it's really quite heartwarming to see the response to it because I think it is a very powerful kind of beginning, I think, in terms of maybe this little tide of change in the paranormal to really provide people with something that might be useful. Whether it's as an investigator, as somebody who has a location that's of particular of note and historical value, whether someone's having a particular problem that they're experiencing and don't know what to do I mean, you name it. Kind of covers every single base. And I think it's a real testimony to everybody involved for the sheer amount of work that's gone into it so far to pull all of that together, because it's a very big, wide spectrum of different topics to cover, really.

Speaker B: There is, yeah. And we had no idea how the Society would go down when we launched. We didn't know what the reaction was going to be from the start. We were like, we are not the paranormal police, we're not here to tell people what to do. We're here for the individuals that might just want to learn something, or someone who's thinking of setting up their own paranormal team, a location that has started to see other locations get into the paranormal and want to find out a bit more. So, yeah, we just want to be informative. I think that's our main goal is be informative and just help the community.

Speaker A: And I love that it's starting to grow as well in the sense of other people getting involved. And when I was speaking to Paul, I mentioned Jane Mortimer's involvement. You can really see this kind of rolling growth and impact that it could have. I mean, the sky is the limit in terms of where it could go if people keep getting behind it and those that are involved continue to do what you're doing because there's so much that could be done and I think we're just starting to see the beginnings of that with the Society. So well done and hats off to you all.

Speaker B: Thank you. Yeah, we're really excited. We are just getting going and we're not going to be stopping anytime soon. We've got so many ideas and plans for the future, so, yeah, just keep watching this space.

Speaker A: So, within the society itself, would you say there's particular aspects that you are enjoying working on or being part of that kind of helps drive what the society is doing forward?

Speaker B: So I am the head of social media. Prior to the Society, I was a student at the University of Gloucestershire studying journalism, and one of the modules was social media and PR, things like that, and I had to do a placement and I ended up working for a local charity and did their social media for them for a few months. And I really enjoyed it. So when we were all kind of at the very beginning, picking what we thought that we could contribute to the society, I did say I was like, well, I've done social media before, I enjoy it. Even in my own spare time, I'm on social media quite a bit. So that's where I thought that my strengths could play into the society. So I enjoy interacting with people, kind of trying to think outside the box when it comes to social media posts. How can we get more followers? How can we make people want to follow us? That's kind of what I spend most of my time doing with the society.

Speaker A: It's a very big role, though, because I think especially during that initial launch and then the subsequent year, two years, I would say you're really trying to drive people's awareness of society and that comes from people finding you. It comes from people finding you and finding something that you're posting or sharing interesting that they then might share with a friend or might retweet or share on their own Facebook page or whichever platform they prefer. It's that kind of word of mouth. And so that networking, that social media presence is sadly so important and valuable in terms of really helping to get the name of the society out there. And I think this is something that Paul touched upon. It's a very simple thing that people can do to help as part of supporting the charity and its ethos and what it's trying to do. If you see a post, share it, tell people about it. If you are an investigator, share the society with other teams, put it out on your platform, retweet it, share it on Instagram. It all helps. It makes such a significant difference.

Speaker B: It does.

Speaker A: Just raising that profile, it does.

Speaker B: And like the other day we had Danny Robbins retweet one of our posts from Uncanny Uncanny Fame. And the amount of followers we got just from that one retweet was huge. So when the right people notice what we're doing, it's so beneficial to getting our name out there.

Speaker A: And we should remember that it is a charity we're kind of laughing at, there for the greater good. But everybody that's involved is doing this not for themselves, they're doing it for the community. That's everybody, that's part of it. And so we can all be part of that process of change and sharing and awareness and getting the name of the society out there in small ways and getting involved as much as we can to support what you're all trying to do.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. And this is what Paul said from the beginning, was that the society isn't about any specific individual. We are all equally as important. Everyone involved is so important for the cogs to constantly be turning from the writers to the people putting the articles on the website to then me sharing it on social media. Everyone has such a crucial role. And that was as well why like Paul said, we wanted to be set up as a charity so that we with the Charity Commission constantly setting standards for what we had to achieve. And it was not about any individual. Yeah, just the charity as a whole.

Speaker A: I asked Paul this same question. In terms of the next year or so, what would you say for you? Are the kinds of areas that you're really hoping that the society continues to work on and to push and to help promote, what do you say, the biggest next step goals, if you like.

Speaker B: Me personally, I would love to see more of a push into the heritage sector because I feel like that is our niche. That is the fact that we are also focusing on members of the public as well as the heritage locations. So I think liaising and collaborating with some of the heritage organizations out there. That is where I would love to see us go next. Because the heritage locations as well. The paranormal is getting more and more mainstream and you are seeing National Trust and places like that starting to kind of open up their doors to the paranormal a bit more. Around Halloween, it's like come to our top five spooky locations. So I think we're getting in there at the right time to have some great collaborations with these other heritage organizations.

Speaker A: I think you're going in at the right time to have a huge impact because I think what you said is so absolutely true in terms of you are kind of in a bit of a niche position because there is nobody really out there as a society supporting heritage locations when it comes to putting on these types of events or opening up their location to the paranormal. And it's such a big area that if you have no understanding, if you've not been part of that community, if you're doing this for the first time, could be just this huge mind boggling experience of knowing what to do, how to do it, how to go about it, what's involved, and to do it in such a way that the location itself is going to actually gain something from it, rather than it being an experience that's quite detrimental, which I think we've all seen happen before with other locations. And so having somewhere that is a real hub of support for heritage locations, where they're being given very relevant up to date information, where they're not having to go out and outsource and look things up and find things that to them may be difficult to acquire and to kind of know where to go. Here it is at their fingertips, a wealth of experience somewhere that you can also contact for further information. I mean, it's incredible. I can't explain that enough how I think it could make such a big impact for locations to continue to thrive and to offer things that bring people through their doors that showcases history, but also showcases something a little bit different.

Speaker B: Yeah. And we want to put the control back into the heritage locations hands, because some heritage locations might not understand the repercussions of getting into the paranormal. They might, if they get into the paranormal, cut off some of their daytime clients. So that's why our guides are there to say it could be very beneficial to get into the paranormal. And a lot of locations, their doors remain open because of the paranormal. But some locations, we're saying to them, maybe think about it. You can choose whether or not you want to have that reputation for your location. And it's fine. It's fine if they want to go, actually, we're going to stick to weddings, we're going to stick to children's events and stuff like that. And that's absolutely fine. And we just want to give them as much information so that they can make an informative decision that's beneficial to.

Speaker A: Their business, which, again, is so empowering, isn't it? As opposed to maybe being approached by a company, a group, that look as if they're going to be legitimate and going to be able to support you and be able to do all of these things, and then suddenly you realize it's just not quite what you thought it was going to be. And you're in a position where then you're not sure what to do. Because like we've already talked about, if you aren't experienced, you don't necessarily know the pitfalls. You don't know if it's right for you. And this kind of an event is not right for every location. No. But where it can be, it can be so worthwhile. And it can really help some locations to keep their doors open, to continue to have these magnificent locations and buildings and structures thrive and be open rather than closed and derelict.

Speaker B: Yeah. Although we have such a beautiful, rich heritage in our country, we have so many beautiful buildings. And I just think if the paranormal community can be responsible for that building staying open another 100, 200 years, and that's fantastic, but we just need to treat that building with respect, preserve the history, because that's so important. The future generations have to have the correct history to then pass it on to their kids.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Oh, my God. Completely. Yes. I 100% agree with you. And again, I just think it's fantastic that the society is going to be part of that process of support, because I do think it's something that is needed. And there has been that gap, and to see it now starting to be filled and that presence is there that people can go to if they want to, I just think is phenomenal.

Speaker B: Well, thank you.

Speaker A: So I know that Paul, when we spoke, he was kind of explaining some of the things that he and the rest of the team have been putting out in terms of how people can get involved and support and come on board with what the society is doing or maybe take on a position if they felt they were able to. And I know that there are opportunities for people to submit writing, maybe offer some of their expertise and skills and I know that that's been shared and put out there for people on different platforms. In terms of where the society is now, is that still something that is being promoted? See if you can offer anything, if you want to be part of it, get in touch. Is that still something you're trying to advocate for people to do?

Speaker B: 100%? 100%? Yeah. Have a look at our vacancies on our website. We are all volunteer roles and we do this because we love it, but yeah, we're constantly looking for more people to get involved, whether that be helping on the website side of things or helping me with the social media or writing articles. There's so many different roles available and also every type of if you've got any sort of background in law, amazing. There's going to be many topics that we're going to cover which is going to be to do with law or if you know a lot about psychology, great. There's so many skills that we are looking for. Don't think that you don't have anything of any value for us because we are constantly looking for multitude of skills.

Speaker A: And I suppose it's one of those kind of areas as well, that someone looking at it might think, well, I can't see anything that they're kind of suggesting that they might need someone to help with, but actually you might be looking at it and thinking, I might be able to do this. And maybe if I just drop them an email, send them that message just to let them know if they ever want any help with X, Y or Z. Sometimes we can see something that maybe we can offer that might help in the future. So kind of have that open mind in terms of if you're behind it, if you want to volunteer in some capacity, just take a look and see maybe where you can offer some of that support because it really does make a difference. And again, just I think the more people that can be behind something, the bigger and better something is really, isn't it?

Speaker B: Definitely. And we're all so approachable and we love the ideas when we get together and we all have ideas days and we kind of throw ideas around for future stuff for the society. No idea is silly, no idea is too out there. We're constantly thinking of new ways to get the society out there. So if someone comes along and goes, what they're doing is great, but have they thought of this? Drop us an email, drop us an email, we are more than happy to speak to anyone. So yeah, definitely come and get involved.

Speaker A: And again, we'll make sure that all of the different platforms are available on the website and on the podcast description notes for this episode. I mean, they'll still be there as part of Paul's episode where he spoke about the UK Paranormal Society. So again, listening to this episode, listening to that past episode, please, it's still there. There's still opportunities to get involved and to see what the Society is about and to keep checking on it because it's constantly growing, it's ever changing, there's more things being added all the time. So really kind of use it is what I would say. Have. It something that you save and you look at. And if you have a question, see if there's the answer on there. And if there isn't, maybe that's something that you can do. Definitely about this and drop that kind of message in.

Speaker B: If there's something that's missing on our website, and you think, oh, actually, I think that would be really valuable, definitely email us. Definitely.

Speaker A: So in terms of you specifically, I mean, you are very busy obviously with the UK Paranormal Society and you mentioned for you really helping to drive the heritage and kind of seeing that evolve over the next year is important to you on the Society. You obviously have this other role outside what you do with the charity which is being involved with the Ancient Ram in.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Pretty incredible location.

Speaker B: It is.

Speaker A: Do you want to just explain a little bit about the inn for anybody who maybe doesn't know anything about it, doesn't know where it is, doesn't know some of its history? Do you want to just kind of give us some of those facts for someone who is a real kind of novice in terms of this incredible location?

Speaker B: Sure. So the Ancient Ramen is situated in wooden under edge in one of the lowest dips in the town, known as Potter's Pond. So over 1000 years ago, a pond sat where the Ancient Ram is now. But since then the pond has been dried up, the stream has been diverted in pipes around the inn. The Ancient Ramen was built in 1145 and from 1350 there has been a variety of names for the building. So records have shown that it used to be called the Old Sun and also the Tan House. So the Tan House points to the fact that it used to be a tannery. It also used to house stonemasons and slaves that were rebuilding the St. Mary's church when King John burnt the village down around the 13th century. So yeah, it's got a bit of history in 1820. It became a pub for a number of years up until 1965. So there was went from different landlords and different pubs and stuff. And then in 68, a man named John Humphreys bought the Ancient Ram in for 2600 pound because the local council were actually going to demolish the ancient Ramen to widen the road out of the front. So John was like, no, can't allow you to do that. So he bought the in for 2600 pound and he moved his family in. On the very first night that John was living in the ancient Ram Inn. He had set up a bed in the working men's kitchen and as he was falling asleep, he felt something grab his wrists and yank him out of bed and he hit the wall. He was so terrified, he ended up getting in a famous douser named Roy Dening to just look around the property to see what he could locate. And Roy Denning pointed out a spot next to the bed and said, you need to dig up here. So John started to dig up the area that he was pointed to and he came across human bones and an inscribed dagger. So from that point on, there was a lot of paranormal activity. And John lived in the Ram up until 2017 when he died, unfortunately. But he lived there his entire life. His, his wife and his children moved out a few years after they moved in. So I think probably around 1970, I believe. And yeah, John lived there on his own.

Speaker A: We are about to celebrate hitting our 100th episode of Haunted History Chronicles on the last Friday of April 2023 to say thank you. For the months of May, June and July. There are going to be daily paranormal podcasts available to enjoy on all tiers over on Patreon, as well as the usual additional items available over there. Signing up now will gain you access to these as well as all previous archived content. For as little as one pound, you could be getting hundreds of podcasts to enjoy and more and know that you're contributing and helping the podcast to put out another 100 episodes. You can find the link in the episode Description Notes as well as on the Haunted History Chronicle's website, along with other simple and great ways to support the podcast directly. It's all truly very much appreciated. And now let's head back to the podcast. And it really does have quite the kind of pedigree in terms of people who know about it and have heard about it from either going there and having taking part in a paranormal investigation or seeing it on a television program, being investigated by a team that is kind of broadcasting it as part of their show. And it's definitely kind of synonymous, I would say, within the paranormal community as being a haunted location.

Speaker B: Yes, it's definitely got a worldwide reputation. I have given tours to Americans, Australians, people from all over the world that are just so excited to be there because they have seen Zach Bagan's visit the location. So, yeah, it's got such a fantastic.

Speaker A: Reputation and it's one of the oldest buildings in the area, isn't it, or if not the oldest, it is it.

Speaker B: Is the oldest building in Wood and under edge. Yeah. So 1145, and there's no other building like it. When you go through Witten under edge, the building is so I don't know, it just draws you in. You walk past it, and you can't help to just look.

Speaker A: They just stand out, don't they? They just have that feel about them that when you just see them, you notice them for whatever reason, like you mentioned, there's something about them that just draws you in. And it's definitely one of those. And I think there's something very quintessentially English about it. It really does look like that quintessential English pub just there. Part of the community kind of at the heart and the center of the community. It has all the features that you would expect, and yet it has this other kind of element to it that is just there, literally pulsing below the surface, really. And again, I think that's part of what draws people in, that there is something very unique and kind of mystical about the place that is kind of rare and unique for this location. I think there's something different about it.

Speaker B: Yes. And also there's the fact that it's located on ley lines. The theory behind ley lines is ley lines are like invisible earth energy. And ley lines connect some of the most spiritual places around the world temples, the pyramids, stonehenge. And we don't think that these places were placed there by accident. We think that these spiritual places were built specifically on these lay lines to harvest the energy from the earth. And the fact, as well that the Ram was built on top of Potter's Pond, which used to be a pond in the paranormal. We all know that there's the theory behind water being a conductor of paranormal activity. So I always say you've got the water, you've got the ley lines and the belief as well that it's built on top of a pagan burial ground. It's like the perfect storm of paranormal activity. So there's no reason why there wouldn't be some sort of activity at the ram.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And also given that, it is something that I think that became very much associated because of the findings that were found there and because of the nature of how that happened and then the subsequent reports from the owner, John, there is this kind of real connection, I think, with him in the paranormal and his experiences within the in itself. And I think when you have somebody that is very much connected to a location for an extended period of time, I think, again, you also have that build up of energy. And I think that's certainly something that, again, is quite unique and quite rare, that there is that duality between his experiences and the location itself. And almost the two very much almost feeding each other, if that makes sense. The energy of. Those two things combined, seemingly to also add something, maybe because of the fact that he'd bought it and like you mentioned, as soon as he was in there, he has this experience, but then uncovers something and maybe again that's just stirred something up that then just continued to build.

Speaker B: Well, it's funny, actually, because the first time that I went to The Ram, where Caroline, his daughter, who has now taken over The Ram from him, was showing me around, she was walking me through room to room, telling me the history. We ended up at the end of the tour, me and her went and sat down in the living room. And it's middle of the day, I felt comfortable and we're chatting and all of a sudden there was a loud bang underneath the stool that I'm sat in. And I kind of stood up and I looked around and I was like, what was that noise? And Caroline was like, oh, you've been christened. And I was like, what's going on? A few hours later, she ended up sending me some CCTV footage. And underneath the stall that I was sat in, there was a little footstall. And in the video, I am completely still. My feet are nowhere near the footstall. And the footstall, it lifts up and then it just drops on the floor really loud. And that was the bang that I heard. And I thought that that was amazing. That was my first day in The Ram having some very cool experiences. So I think the fantastic thing about The Ram is that it doesn't need to be nighttime to experience things there.

Speaker A: It's a location that has kind of so many different areas and spots of activity as well. I mean, like so many of these quintessentially English pubs, again, you kind of walk into them and they're a bit like a TARDIS. Looks can be deceptive and they can have lots of different types of areas. And the ancient Ramen is exactly one of those. Because of that, you've got very different types of areas and hotspots of activity, but also different feelings that they kind of create in you, I think, as you visit and you go from location and room to room.

Speaker B: Yeah, and that's so true. Every tour I have given, at least one person says, it is so much bigger in here than I thought, because from outside it yeah, it looks quite small, but when you go in, it is room after room after room and you can go up, up into the attic and yeah, people are amazed by how much space there is in there. But, yeah, it's true, every room in there has a different story and every room in there has a different feeling. And the barn area, I don't feel comfortable in there. It's not a nice feeling in there. It's very dark. And the story is that there is a man named Edward that hangs around in the barn area, who's known to be quite dominating, quite nasty. And if you've ever seen the episode of Most Haunted, when they went to the ancient ramen, stewart ended up getting violently pushed and he was on the floor in the barn. So that's not a nice area. The witch's room upstairs with the story of a local woman named Elspeth Grant, who was having a relationship with one of the priests up at St Mary's Church, just up the hill. And this was in the 16th century, and when the priest no longer wanted a relationship with Elsbeth, to keep his dignity intact and to diminish all responsibility, he accused her of bewitching him and said that she was a witch. And she fled and she hid inside the ancient Ramen up in the room, which is now known as the witch's room. And she hid there. She hid there until she was unfortunately found and then she was taken outside and gutted and killed. And I go up into that room and I don't feel scared in that room. I feel more sad. I feel very sad that she died for something and she was blamed for something that she wasn't. So whenever they have the events at the Ram, lots of people manage to contact Elsbeth and she comes through as very adamant that she is not a witch. So sometimes people can misinterpret that anger as an angry spirit. But she's not an angry spirit, she's just a very she feels anger towards what happened to yeah, misunderstood. Definitely. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker A: And again, I think this is what's kind of very interesting about the location, because just those two areas alone, you've got two very completely different stories and historical stories and areas that kind of create a very different sense of feeling in you when you're visiting. And again, that's something very unique that you can go from one area to another. And there is an aspect of history that will just draw you in. There's a story that will draw you in. There's a real person behind some of these stories that are drawing you in that you can't help but kind of submerse yourself into. I think that makes that experience much more powerful. And then if there's a paranormal kind of piece of evidence that becomes attached with that, then that's just incredible. If you can have all of those things kind of coming together, I mean, it's that perfect domino effect, isn't it, really? That is just incredible.

Speaker B: And every single room, there's so many fascinating aspects to the Ram. There's etchings on the walls from over 600 years ago. There's the mummified cat, which has got its own story, so there's just so much and then if they're there and the ghost stories as well, the building has everything. And it's the perfect example of that historic building that ties so nicely in with the paranormal as well.

Speaker A: And I think we should mention that at this point, it's no longer being run as a pub, is it? It is there as a historical building. So this is a way of really preserving that history, whether it's the artifacts that are inside it or the building itself. And like you mentioned, things like the etchings, these are things to preserve, to look at and to really appreciate for their historical value. And so the paranormal is one aspect, one way of helping to do that, really.

Speaker B: Yeah. And that's it. That all the money they get to preserve this building is through the paranormal, because the ancient Ram in now, as well as, like you said, the fantastic history of it, all the things it used to be, it used to be a coaching inn, it used to be a tannery, it used to be a pub. But now the building is known as a paranormal location. So, yeah, all of its funds comes from the paranormal. So we need to encourage people to visit to people to do the events and stuff to keep the Ram open.

Speaker A: And, you know, again, we'll make sure to put the website and things up for it because, you know, looking on there, there are lots of different opportunities to go in and take a look at what's happening there. What? You know, kind of get a feel for the in itself via an event that's through the day or through the evening, and there's so many different dates available, there really is an opportunity to visit at quite low cost. A very iconic pub that has this very rich history, but is also a location very much steeped in the paranormal and has been for a long time. It's been up there, I think, pretty much in every top ten or top five list of most haunted locations going back so far. I mean, it's incredible, really, to have that kind of pedigree and that history of association with the paranormal.

Speaker B: Yeah. And like I said, I've given tours to Americans, to Australians that have come over, this wonderful Australian couple that were coming over to England and they were going up to Scotland to get married. And they were like, we had to stop at the ancient Ramen while we were here because of how famous it is around the world. And I just felt very privileged to be giving a tour to this couple who had traveled around the world to visit.

Speaker A: And I think that anybody going will find and take something away from the location that's unique for them. And again, I think that's kind of something that's magical about certain locations. When you visit, that when you go, you take something with you that feels kind of personal, that you've got something out of it, that you wanted out of it. There's something there for everybody, and you can enjoy it on different levels, whether it is the paranormal, whether it's kind of taking some of that history away with you, looking at some of the things like the etchings. And really kind of marveling at some of that, There is something there for everyone.

Speaker B: There really is. Yeah, you're definitely correct. If you're interested in naval history, there's stuff there to do with the Mayflower Expedition. There's the Roman etchings from the Nine Men's Morris game. There's just the cats from the witchcraft and the medieval beliefs that a cat put into the war would ward off evil spirits. So there's just so many aspects. And yeah, it's every room you could spend ages in looking at all the artifacts on the wall because John wanted to make it like a museum. So there's information everywhere. The things on the wall that you can read. It's amazing. And one thing as well, everyone also says is the smell that everyone picks up on the smell of the building. And especially when you walk into the first living room area, everyone always says it's got a smell of hay or a smell of, like, leather, which obviously ties in nicely to the fact that it used to be a tannery. And I think smell is very emotive as well. So when you go in there, I can be at home and I can almost click my fingers and know what the ram smells like. I know that sounds really weird, but.

Speaker A: I think it's that immersive experience again, isn't it? You get drawn into it because of the different senses that it taps into and whether it's the visual, because it is kind of like the Cabinet of Curiosities. There are so many oddities and different things because John did have quite a collection and you get to experience that. Like you said, it's like a museum. But then there's the sensory kind of experiences that you get that you mentioned, like the smells. All of these things evoke different things for somebody. I think when you have that, again, it's just that very enveloping feeling that you just really do get involved in it. And again, I think there's not many locations and places where you really come away with something like that as an experience.

Speaker B: Yeah. And the temperature is so cold in there. Even now when I go in there, I have to put my big winter coat on, even though even if it's nice and warm outside, you step in the ram and it just goes so cold.

Speaker A: It's funny. That is the one thing that everyone always tells me about when you have a conversation with people about where they've gone or where they would like to go and things like that. And if the ancient ramen gets mentioned, the temperature drops. There really do get mentioned a lot because I think it is quite significant.

Speaker B: It is.

Speaker A: And like you mentioned, no rhyme or reason, no matter what the time of year, the time of day, it's really quite apparent that it's just a very cold location that really does have those kind of drops in temperature.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Which is definitely going to add to the paranormal kind of effect, isn't it? Really?

Speaker B: Definitely.

Speaker A: So in terms of when you walk around the building, are there any key places that for you? There's something about the atmosphere or that room or the history of that room or what you know about that room in terms of the paranormal, that really draws you in in particular.

Speaker B: So, like I said earlier, I love the witch's room. I could sit in there comfortably because I don't feel fear in there. I feel more of, like, empathy. Empathy towards elsbeth. So I love that room. One room that I don't like the feeling in is the children's den. So that's the very small bedroom in the middle. It's the one with the creepy DOL in it's. Quite a small room. So you step in and instantly you feel quite imposing. It's a very imposing feeling. You feel like someone's just like, behind you. I don't know, it's a weird feeling, but nothing has happened to me in that room. But that room, I wouldn't want to spend a lot of time in there. And like I said, the barn as well. Not a nice feeling in there. It doesn't help. The floor is a bit uneven, so you feel a bit off kilter anyway. But being in there, especially when the lights are off, being in there is very overwhelming.

Speaker A: The attic.

Speaker B: So Caroline has her in house paranormal team that do the events on a Friday night. And Andy, her host, was telling me all about the Ram and stuff when I went around there, when I had just started doing the tours. And he said that they purposely put up a mirror portal in the attic room. And I looked around and I noticed there was a mirror in every single corner of the attic room where the bed is. And I was like, oh, okay, that's clever. It kind of amplify the paranormal activity. And then Andy was also telling me about how whenever they do an event, they leave the ram exactly like they found it, out of respect for the building, out of respect for Caroline. And he said that the next day he ended up getting a message from Caroline and was like, why is the bedside table in the middle of the bed? And Andy was like, what? And she was like, yeah, the bedside table is sat on the middle of the bed. And he was like, I did not do that. No. So things like that will happen. I've also seen footage where Caroline's partner has been in the living room, sat going through boxes, and his car keys are on the table, like a good meter or so away from him. And his car keys will literally flip, like flip over as if somebody had just nudged them. And there's just so many amazing things that happen in that building, and I think it happens mostly when you're not looking for it.

Speaker A: I think like so much of what we experience in the paranormal, isn't it's kind of when you're not expecting it that then something happens, it's those moments. And I think you kind of touched on some of the different paranormal activity that people can experience. But again, it's a location that really does have a real variety and wealth of different types of paranormal encounters and reports. And again, it's something that I think if people are interested in investigating, go along for yourself to kind of see what you possibly experience if you're lucky to get in on an event, because there's so much that happens there. And yeah, it's one to try and experience yourself, to see if you have an experience similar or different or if it's something that you have that's very much unique for you, something happens unique for you, like you were mentioning with the stool, who knows? You just don't know what could happen. I think that's the thing, you really don't know what could happen.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, Caroline does allow people to hire the Ram out midweek as well. So you can hire it out from 08:00 at night until 08:00 in the morning. So you can actually sleep there if you want to, which would be great because you can just have a small group of you do that. You can all have your own separate bed if you're brave enough.

Speaker A: And like I said, if you go on their website and anybody's freely available to do so, the events themselves, they are incredibly good value for taking part in a paranormal investigation or a tool. And when you consider what you're getting and you consider the location that you're in, that's quite astounding. I mean, really good value for money. So a great experience at something that is not hugely expensive, which given what everybody's experiencing at the moment, is quite a nice refreshing change.

Speaker B: Yeah, like we mentioned earlier as well, you've got the history side of it, so you're kind of like going into a museum plus the aspect of the paranormal. So I think you're getting kind of two for one.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And again, just such a rare and unique opportunity to kind of have your moment in such an incredible building with this very long history and long association with the paranormal. And when we think of locations and buildings and places like you mentioned earlier, we are so blessed. And the in itself is just one of those long lists of places that are if you get the opportunity to go, you really are very lucky. You are very blessed to have that moment in that location itself because they're fabulous and we should really celebrate them and enjoy them for all the things that they have. Really.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely.

Speaker A: So, like I said, I will make sure that we get all of those details up so that anybody who's interested can take a look. And we couldn't possibly go through everything in a single podcast but this is just kind of like the first glimmers of what you could expect.

Speaker B: Yeah. And people always ask as well, they go, well, do you think John is still here? And I can say with certainty that John is definitely still there. Like Caroline has told me stories that has happened to her while she's been there and she's like, yeah, that was my dad so it would be nice for people to go there. And whenever I go into the building I always say hi John. Because it's his home. And I feel like out of respect, I want to make sure that I'm telling his stories correctly. You know, he's so yeah, I always, always think John's still there watching over us.

Speaker A: It's quite a legacy really if you think about it. When you consider how he took over the in itself and the fact that here it is still today a building that people can visit, love and enjoy is really a testimony, I think, to him that he did that. Because who knows what would have happened if he hadn't have bought it all those years ago for just over 2000 pounds. Who knows? And I think the fact that he is part of that story and so central to it I think is really important in kind of helping it to continue to go forward, really. Because it is almost all together, isn't it? You can't separate them, you can't tease them out.

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: And so the fact that you are helping to share that aspect of the in itself as well I think is important.

Speaker B: I've had a really good time.

Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you so much. And I will say goodbye to everybody listening.

Speaker B: Bye everybody.