The Haunting History, Legends and Ghosts of Wookey Hole Caves with Chris Goodchild

Michelle: Hi everyone, and welcome back to Haunted History Chronicles. Before we introduce today's podcast or guest, if you like this podcast, please consider leaving a review. It costs nothing, but it helps share news of podcasts and guests I feature with others interested within the paranormal. It's a simple and easy way to help the podcast continue to grow and be a space for people to chat and come together. If you haven't already found us on the Haunted History Chronicles website, Instagram, Facebook, or Twitter, you can find links to all social media pages in any of the notes for an episode. Come and join us to get involved and gain access to additional blogs, news and updates. And now let's get started introducing today's episode. The Wookie Hole Caves are a series of limestone caverns in the village of Wookie Hole on the southern edge of the Mendip Hills. It's been a site of biological and geological scientific interest for some time. Used for about 45,000 years, it's a location that has uncovered many discoveries, including tools found from the Paleolithic period along with fossilized remains. It's a site that holds evidence of Stone Age and Iron Age civilization. The full extent of the cave system itself is still unknown and may hold yet more discoveries and mysteries. Joining me today is Chris Goodchild, general manager of Wookie Holes. And with these caves that date back millions of years and one of the oldest recorded mills in history, wookie Hole is steeped with history and mystery that we get to dive into within the podcast. So get comfortable and let's start to explore some of the mysteries and history, including paranormal reports of both the mill located there and the caves themselves. Hi Chris, thank you so much for joining me tonight.

Chris Godchild: No worries. Hi.

Michelle: Do you want to just start by telling us a little bit about yourself and your background?

Chris Godchild: Yeah. Yeah. So my name is Chris. I'm the general manager at Wookie Hole Caves in Somerset. I've been there for almost 23 years now, so quite some time be 23 years in May. I actually started walkie hole clearing tables so many, many years ago. And then I worked alongside doing business, A levels, et cetera, and continued to sort of grow and develop there. And here I am now, so still loving it, still enjoying it and still there.

Michelle: And it's an incredible location. The fact that you've been able to be there and to help manage it for so long is just incredible because it really is a special place.

Chris Godchild: I think it's one of the most unique places in the UK. It's absolutely fantastic. I mean, obviously we're Wookie Hole Caves, so we've got the caves, you've got the legend of the witch. And the caves have been there for hundreds of thousands, millions of years. They've been there for an extremely long time. But joined with the caves is the paper mill. And the paper mill's got some tremendous history. The first paper mill is actually noted in the Doomsday Book. So it's recorded that there was a paper mill at Wookie Hole or a mill at Wookie Hole, and it progressed from there onwards. It's been several different mills over the years, but predominantly it's famous for being a paper mill, making the famous Walkie Hole paper, which was guaranteed for 500 years. Absolutely great quality product. Sadly, we had to stop making it probably about ten to 15 years ago now. It just wasn't financially viable to continue with the process, even though it was such a great product and a great offer, we had to stop that. But we've still got all the equipment, we've still got the mill, and it's an integral part of our attraction and what we offer.

Michelle: Yeah, I'm really hoping we get the chance to talk about both, because like you said, they really are both very unique and such a big draw. Just kind of starting with the caves. Why are they so important? Why are they of such significance, the caves?

Chris Godchild: They're just amazing. I mean, there's so much history to the caves. I mean, the Celts used to live there, the Romans used to visit there, used to have the witch that used to live there. There's so much history and heritage with the place. It's phenomenal. And the caves, they surprise us. Even today, we regularly have different bones wash up from different chambers that are hidden away. The divers will quite often come back with another skull or a bone or a hyena's tooth. It's just amazing what they can dig up even now. And if you think about it, Herbert Bolsh explored the caves and went through all the different chambers many years ago, but we're still finding stuff now, so you just never know what's around the corner and what we might find next. It's fascinating.

Michelle: Yeah, there's been some pretty incredible kind of discoveries for a while now know, really pointing to the different people that have lived there, things that have taken place there, how it's been used for so long, for centuries, which is just incredible, really, that kind of discovery of what it tells us about our past.

Chris Godchild: It's just amazing. Like I said, the caves have been used by so many different people. The Celts used to live in there, the Romans used to visit there. We've actually got small Roman, I believe it's called, little Roman settlement that we had that was very close to the caves. It was just up on the hill adjacent. And I was always told of stories that the Romans used to sort of go into the caves. They'd actually be high at the time, effectively. They'd actually go and eat local mushrooms and get a bit high. They'd end up going into the caves. And at that point there was no water controlling the water there was nothing, sorry, controlling the water levels in the caves. So the water level is quite high and as the water level used to sort of fluctuate quite a lot, it would bounce down and through and make these most amazing noises and sounds. And the Romans at that point truly believed that the gods were talking to them. So you can only imagine what they must have been feeling after they'd gone and eaten some of these mushrooms and then gone into the caves and experienced some of that.

Michelle: Can you imagine what they went back and said to all of their friends? It would have made quite a story. It's one to tell your friends down the local pub, isn't it, on a Friday night?

Chris Godchild: Really? Yes, definitely.

Michelle: But what's so impressive, I think, is that just the full extent of the cave system just still isn't known. I mean, it's so vast, it's huge, it's absolutely massive.

Chris Godchild: And the caves just go on and on. I can't remember the exact date off the top of my head, but about five or six years ago we actually blasted through to chamber 20. So we got as far as chamber nine, and we're only that far because back in the 80s they expanded the cave. So historically you could only ever get to chambers one, two, three, and then chamber four was actually a burial ground. And when the water level was a lot lower, they used to walk on through to chamber four and use it as a burial ground. As the water levels increased, that kind of chamber flooded, so you couldn't easily access that one. But then there was chambers 456789. What they managed to do, divers used to dive through, they found all these different chambers. The previous cave owners then decided to blast through and put some artificial tunnels in place. We've only got a couple of artificial tunnels because most of the caves are completely unique and non man made. They're just original formations and chambers, which is amazing. So we've got two or three tunnels that are our own Mr artificial, but after that, everything is unique. So we got through to chamber nine back in the we decided recently to blast through to chamber 20, as the divers had always known about that chamber. The tunnel to get is quite impressive. I believe it's about 80 meters in length, so that's 80 meters of blasting through and getting to that point. So we can now get as far as chamber 20 walking and they're back off exploring again. And they find stuff all the time. There's loads of other chambers and loads of bits that connect off. You could literally be right next to a huge chamber that's big. And all the caves put together, you just never know. That's the most exciting thing they do, just find things all the time.

Michelle: Yeah, I mean, just these constant discoveries. And I imagine there's this almost rolling plan to try and uncover more when you can really. It's obviously a work in process.

Chris Godchild: Yeah. They're constantly caving, they're constantly diving they do it a lot, sort of recreationally, to be perfectly honest with you. It's not like they've got a set plan in place with us. It's just we allow them to have the freedom as part of the local cave diving and caving groups to go through the caves and to explore. So they go off, they find different things, and they get the credit for it at the end of the day, if they do find something, like I said, they're finding stuff all the time, so you never know. Tomorrow they could find another massive chamber and we could be putting another tunnel in.

Michelle: You kind of mentioned at the start that something that's very much linked to the location is the story of the witch. Where did that originate from?

Chris Godchild: So the story of the witch is kind of legend more than anything, and it's been passed on down and through. And when Herbert Bolsh excavated the caves, he found the bones of what he called the witch at the time just inside the cave entrance. They were actually found in what we call the goat herder. And in that point, he found the bones. He found a small dagger, an alabaster ball, a latch, like there was a door on the caves along with remains of animals. So it was apparent that that person was living inside the caves. And as legend goes, and as history goes, that person was a witch. They were practicing and they were also blamed for anything bad that would happen in the local village. So they took the downfall for everything that would go bad in the village, like famine or crops or anything like that, for example, or a loss of a child, anything like that would be blamed on that witch. And the legend goes that a monk called Father Bernard was brought in from Glastonbury and he was brought over to exorcise the witch from the caves. As the legend goes, he chased her down into chamber one, splashed holy water around and turned it to stone. So there's kind of two stories with it because we found the person who was there with bones. And then we've also got the legend story where they were turned to stone. So you got a bit of a mix of two, and they're quite fun to tell the visitors if they come through, but it would show to us that somebody lived in the cave. That person had animals, they had an alabaster ball, they had some very unique things that were at the time and still now would be portrayed as something witchy.

Michelle: So in terms of the evidence that was discovered, the skeletal remains, hasn't it since been proven that they were in fact male instead of female?

Chris Godchild: You picked up on it. So that's why I kept saying person. It's something that we've been talking about recently in the office and with some of our guides that have been investigating this a bit further. They are in fact male. Yes. And it's one thing that we're sort of questioning now at the time, but then who's to say that a witch is male or female? And that person could have still been a witch in all essence, or a warlock, or whatever you want to describe them as, really. But that person or the remains that were found did have the alabaster ball, the dagger, the latch on the door, who knows? To be perfectly honest with you, I don't think we'll ever find the history of that one, or the truth.

Michelle: No, absolutely. And like you said, those materials found with them, the artifacts are very suggestive of something associated with witchcraft. And we see them up and down in different locations, similar types, type of artifacts, very much associated with the practice. So it's very suggestive that there's certainly some truth of someone living there with some connection with witchcraft. Absolutely. And like you said, who they were, male or female, is probably something that has changed. But does it really matter when it comes to kind of that detail? I suppose not, no.

Chris Godchild: And the other thing to sort of collaborate this or cooperate this is the caves have got witch markings. They've got a lot of witch markings. It's one of the biggest concentration of markings that people that investigate that type of thing have ever seen. I'm not sure if it's still holding that trophy as such, to say it's the largest concentration. But we've actually got someone who works with this that wrote a paper on it, and they were very excited by the findings and very excited by the witch marks. Again, goes hand in hand. The caves are full of witch marks. You've got the bones that were found, you've got all the suggestive items that were there. Somebody in the caves was practicing witchcraft, or they were, I don't know, doing it over many years, and we've had lots of different people doing it. We just fall on the legend of the witch because of the bones, et cetera, and that's fallen on that story. But the truth is, it could have been home to hundreds of people, or it could have been home to just a couple of people. We're just never going to know.

Michelle: And with sections still undiscovered, who knows what other things may be kind of lurking in areas as of yet unexplored. Again, you just don't know, do you? And whether that continues to add credence to it, again, you just don't know.

Chris Godchild: No, we don't know. I mean, some areas that we're getting to, you can quite happily say that humans have never, ever entered that area. And then other areas we're getting to, you never know. And again, we explored areas recently, and again, we found some more bones. We found a couple of coins, we found hyena's tooth, and that was in areas that have been excavated before. So, again, you still just don't know. Things do come up there's different layers of silt and rubbish and debris that get moved on all the time. And with the water level being at different periods or different levels sorry, over different periods of time, it affects things. We've just had a huge amount of water movement in the caves at the moment. I bet you there'll be some more things disturbed. I bet you we'll find some more Roman pottery. I bet you we'll find some more pains.

Michelle: Incredible. Very exciting. Is there a particular reason for why it was given the name that it has? Is there an origin kind of story to that?

Chris Godchild: So, as far as I am aware, and I am not 100% on this, but this is the information that I've always been given, is wookie hole is an old Celtic word or name, and it derives back from being an animal trap. So what the celts used to do was drive animals off the top of the cave entrance, which is a massive cliff face. So they would drive the animals off the top, and basically, to their death, they'd fall off the top, they'd land at the bottom, they'd go retrieve the animals, they have food, and it's something to do with the name. Wookie hole is an old Celtic name for animal trap. And that's a very quick, brief explanation of it. The guys who know this stuff can explain it a lot better, but that's my brief bit of history with the.

Michelle: Name, but it's not one that I've heard before. So it's fascinating that that's the connection. And again, I suppose with some of the discoveries that have been found there, it makes complete perfect sense, doesn't it, that this is something that was used as part of hunting then and again with the animal remains that have subsequently been found. That connection absolutely seems viable in terms of some of the kind of the activity that's experienced there. I mean, obviously it's something also associated with the paranormal community. Do you have any personal experiences?

Chris Godchild: Not as such in the caves, which is weird, I suppose, because they've got so much history, they've got so much death, they've been used as a burial ground for hundreds, if not thousands of years. The thing with the caves is they make me very uneasy as I walk through chamber three. And it's the only point in the caves that I ever feel. You saw the hairs on the back of your neck go up. As such, it's a weird chamber, and I suppose that is the most unique chamber because it is right next to the burial ground. Unfortunately, it's very close to where a couple of divers have passed away. There's that activity that kind of goes with it. So chamber three makes me feel very uneasy. I've worked in the caves and been in and out of the caves for years and years and years. I'll quite happily walk through the caves in the middle of the night with the lights off. It's just chamber three that does, in all honesty, freak me out. It's just a very weird chamber. I don't know what it is. All the other chambers absolutely fine, could walk through, and I'll probably walk through anytime. But chamber three bit weird.

Michelle: And in terms of kind of types of activity, types of phenomena, are there specific types of things that are fairly regular or typical of the location.

Chris Godchild: So within the caves you get lots of stories of people seeing something. We've had some paranormal groups in recently that have posted some footage online. They've caught some bits on camera, which is really fascinating. It's absolutely amazing what they managed to catch. I've had stories before. One of the most unique stories I ever had was somebody going through the caves and they came across a diver that looked a bit lost, but the diver actually gave them directions and showed them where to go out. The diver then continued what they were doing. Later on that day this was a member of the public said, oh, can you say thank you to that diver that helped me? There were no divers in that day. There was no one booked in whatsoever. So that was a very weird one. That was a number of years ago now. We've also had a local police officer that used to work with the village. He came out one day to investigate a nine nine nine call that they received to that they were stuck down a well at Wookie Hole. Can you come and help us? Now? They thought it was a prank call, but they still acted upon it, obviously for the information that they were given. They came down, obviously spoke to us at the time. We'd like, there's no one in the caves, there's no well, there's nothing. And we couldn't find anything with this. It wasn't until a number of weeks later that one of the guides said there was history to a boy being trapped down the caves before that lost his life. Now we couldn't find out any more information about that story, but it kind of worked out to around the same time as kind of like an anniversary type thing. It was all very strange. And the trouble is there's a huge amount of history and a huge amount of old articles and newspapers to go through. Some of our team are still doing stuff like that to try and find information, but very freaky.

Michelle: But it's incredible that it's something that you do look into because I think all too often with locations, that kind of aspect of it gets overlooked and gets missed. And so it's great when you can piece together a name, something that did happen that you can pinpoint and find that piece of evidence to support that. And then when you have activity that possibly connects and ties in with that, that seems to make sense. It's that kind of magical moment of things kind of coming together, these threads coming together, which is I think the special parts of the history and the paranormal coming together in this kind of wonderful symbiotic relationship, I think.

Chris Godchild: Oh yeah, definitely. And we're very much up for investigating anything. We're all about the history at the moment. So there's been a lot of changes at Wookie recently and we've got some absolutely fantastic team that are on our guiding team now and they're really driven by the history and finding out as much information about Wookie as they can. And it's great, all the information they are finding out, a lot of it we're trying to put back into our cave tours as well. So we kind of have lost our way with a very mundane cave tour, but it's actually becoming more exciting. Again, we'll be able to point out different features, different facts, different bits of information, and it's all being brought to life again.

Michelle: It's absolutely fantastic, which is fabulous because then it's something that if anyone's been on the tour before and experienced it before, it means that going again, they're going to get something very different. And in future years, again, it's something that's going to be evolving as more and more information comes together and is pieced together. And I think that's what's really exciting about something like this, because it's a location that has so much history, you can literally keep going. There'll be more things that are uncovered 100 years from now. It's not a location that's going to kind of stop giving up its secrets, I think.

Chris Godchild: Oh, definitely not. Like I said, I've been there for almost 23 years now and I'm still finding out new stuff. So, yeah, it's definitely a lot to learn still and we're being taught well, new things every day.

Michelle: Before we head back to the podcast, if you haven't already visited The Haunted History Chronicles Patreon Page, now is the perfect time to join, to listen and enjoy a multitude of additional podcasts, merchandise, mail and other written materials. It's a great way to support the podcast, continue to grow and put out additional content, share guests and their stories, as well as helping the podcast to continue to be enjoyed. You should be able to see goals the podcast is working towards to help see how your support contributes to this and with different tiers, you can help for as little as you like and as long as you like. You can find the link in the episode Description Notes as well as on The Haunted History Chronicles website. Thank you so much for your support. And now let's head back to the podcast. And you mentioned the kind of the attraction of the Victorian paper mill. I imagine that's another location that you've done a lot of historical research into in terms of the history of it, some of the people maybe that worked there and so on and so forth. Do you want to tell us a little bit about that.

Chris Godchild: Yeah, so the paper mill is absolutely fantastic. The paper mill, to me has got a lot of history, a lot of strange things that happen, and I kind of wish we knew more, to be honest with you. And again, some of our team are trying to find out more information about who used to work at the mill. What we used to do. The thing with the mill is being a paper mill made of wood, et cetera. It burned down so many times over the years. We lost a lot of the historical records, we lost a lot of information, which is really sad, and there's nothing we can do to get some of that stuff back. Every time the mill burnt down, they basically rebuilt it again and they'd make it bigger, larger, improve different areas, et cetera. We're kind of where we are today, so we've only got very basic information about who maybe worked there or what they did. We've still got a lot of photographs, which is absolutely amazing. So we can kind of piece together different areas what they were used for. We also know this as well, because it's kind of handed down by different team members, et cetera. And the mill is quite unique because certain areas will be set jobs, but then some of the areas will be multi use and they use it for different things over the years. But we're talking about a building that's got deep basements. We're talking about a building that used to have hundreds of workers there every single day. And we're talking about a lot of workers that were young children. And sadly, a lot of those young children were used to go in and fix machines, and unfortunately, they didn't come out quite often either, or they'd lose a limb or be injured very badly. So there's some horrific stories that go down the line with the paperman, and it's something we don't really touch upon within our kind of standard offering to our guests that comes through. It's probably a bit more of a sort of a dark tourism related matter because there is a lot of sadness to it and also a lot of interest because it was amazing. They actually did those sort of things back in the day, and they would send children into machines to fix them. They would make children work eight hour days when they were 1112 years old, or even younger, possibly. It truly is scary. But not only that, you had mill workers there as well that would quite often, unfortunately, have incidents, accidents. They used to use caustic soda, they used to use chemicals, they used to use all sorts of stuff. And there was no health and safety back in the day. So you can only imagine some of the things that possibly could have happened. And the mill itself is absolutely full of activity. I don't know where to start talking to you to be honest with you about it, there's just so much I.

Michelle: Kind of echo what you're saying about in terms of what it would have been like in terms of the working conditions. I mean, I remember teaching topics about the Victorians to children in my classes before, and we used to look at child labor, and it was always the thing that really horrified them, because to have that kind of connection with thinking that actually there were children their age and younger working in these types of environments suited for these types of jobs because of their very small hands that would lend itself to putting them inside machinery to fix and so on. But then the consequence of that and the danger of that being as high as it was, I mean, it would just floor the children whenever they kind of looked at that as a topic. And it is really dark to think about and it's so far removed to where we are today. I think that it can be quite a difficult concept to wrap your head around, but I think when you see it up close, you can start to picture it. And again, I think this is the beauty of being able to step into some locations and step into that path because it allows you to see where we've been and where we are in that kind of journey.

Chris Godchild: Yeah, definitely. Completely. Yeah, I completely echo it. It's absolutely phenomenal. When I was first told about these sort of things that they've happened, it shocked me and it still shocks me today. It's not something that you ever get used to and when you talk about it, it kind of reminds you and brings it all back up again. But it's fascinating in one hand and truly sad in another that it happened. It really is.

Michelle: And you mentioned that the mill itself is a location that has a lot of activity. Do you have any personal, again, strange experiences there?

Chris Godchild: A few. And I'll quite happily say that I'm completely in the middle of all this as well. I love to have proof. I don't know, I'm not for it or against it. I'm completely in the middle and always like to say that before I sort of give out some of my stories that I've experienced. Now, we've had I don't know how many paranormal groups in we have frequent visits all the time because of groups that absolutely love it coming backwards and forwards. And I've been with a couple of them on a couple of occasions and I've been there as they've been filming for different documentaries and so on and so forth. I've just had really weird things that I don't understand. So one time we were filming and this was quite recent, it was just before COVID guys came in, they were doing a documentary, we were filming and this was actually off camera, we'd stopped filming and one of our paper making gates. Just closed on us. We were stood right next to it. There was quite happily to say, there was no string, there was no one being silly. It wasn't one of these fake things at all. It just closed right next to us. It was bizarre, it was really freaky and there was nothing else to it. Just shut the gate and then went again, I believe. We came back later on and the gate was open again and no one had touched it. We were very specific to sort of leave that area alone whilst we were investigating and working in that part of the mill. So something as simple as that was weird enough and then other times and other things. The Mirror Maze is very unique and a very strange space. We've always had sort of a feeling that there's a person or a gentleman in that area. I don't often tell paranormal groups upon their first visit different stories about the mill. I like them to investigate and then come back to me and see if anything ties up. But in the paper mill and in the Mirror Maze particular, they all come back and say that there is a gentleman in that area and the gentleman is not very happy and he can't communicate very well. And what a couple of groups have come across to say is that person's possibly got some learning difficulties that were kind of obviously back in the day, undiagnosed. And I think that person was treated quite badly. So they're a bit away with it, they're not quite sure what they're doing and they're kind of repeating kind of where they are, I suppose, and just going backwards and forwards next to the paper mill. We used to have a gift shop as well. It's an ice cream parlor now. I remember one time when I was younger, we were locking up in that area, we were going for the night, so we shut the doors, we went downstairs, put the alarm on. You've got to come a very specific way for the alarm route. So we were one side of the shop. On the other side of the shop there was a massive display of candles as we walked out and we were about to go out the door, candles flew from one side of the shop to the other. And this wasn't candles just falling off and rolling over. They went from one side to the other of about 10ft. It's like they were launched. We just left very quickly and locked up. At that point I was also very young, so we just went. I've got story upon story of those type of things. So there's just so much activity that happens. And groups like I said, they frequent wookie hole, they come all the time, they love the activity, they love the fact they come and they find something different all the time. It's such a truly unique location. It's just got huge history. There's just so much to the place.

Michelle: I think that in terms of both locations, what you've got is an interesting area in terms of the land. But then, like you said, how it's been used and how that's changed and just the connection with the local area. I mean, there's just so much rooted and tied into those spots that I can imagine is partly why you see some of the activity that you do, because there must be so much energy tied there from centuries. So much time and things that have happened that we're never going to fully know, but has certainly left its mark that I think possibly you tap into in terms of that paranormal activity.

Chris Godchild: Yeah, definitely. I mean, even today. So at the moment we've got peak times 150 people working for the mill, operating it as a tourist attraction. So the caves, the mill, et cetera, you can only imagine how many people they actually had working there when it was a paper mill. And you can only imagine how many of those people they kind of went through. It's probably the only best way to describe it. And like I said, the mill burnt down several times. That wouldn't have been an easy thing to combat. And I bet you there was significant loss at that point as well. So we're 150 people a day at the moment, or not a day, but that's how many we have on the books, et cetera. You can imagine that would have been hundreds more when it was an operating paper mill. And we're talking sort of 400 years of operation that's a lot of people moving through somewhere like that. And the reason the paper mill there is just to explain that the paper mill is there because of the caves. The only reason there was a paper mill built was because of the water coming from the caves. The river axe that flows through that river is pure, clean, natural water. It's absolutely fantastic in the paper making process. So it started with the caves in the river. After that, it bought the paper mill. When the paper mill was built, they built houses for the workers, a pub, a school, a village hall. It all knocked on and created wookie hole as we know it today. So from a hole in the ground and a river, it generated the whole village and what we have now. It's truly amazing.

Michelle: And that's why I think just that whole land, that landscape, the connection and how everything is tied together, I think must play a part in why it's so active. Because, like you said, just so many people over the last few hundred years very much tied to the land, their families, their community building up around it. I mean, it's really incredible. It's very unique. Again, just exciting to kind of explore and start to really dive into that research to find out more about it and then obviously, hopefully tie that with some of the things that get reported there. Because like you mentioned, lots of people, lots of groups experience a real range of activity in terms of the paranormal activity there, which is, again, unique. It's a rare experience, I think, compared to a lot of different locations.

Chris Godchild: Yeah, it's quite nice with the groups as well because I quite often get feedback from them and I ask them for their feedback, so I'm interested to see what they found or just how they found the location, to be honest with you. And they generally come back with the sort of same consensus that they've kind of seen similar things, but they all seem to find something new and different or a new or different story that kind of links in or ties in somehow to the history. It's just amazing. And a lot of these groups do their own research as well. They'll sort of have something happen, they'll go away, they'll investigate it, they'll find out a bit more information and then tie it back in again. So it's just amazing how it does all come together. And our guides do the same thing again, like I said, they're really up for the history at the moment and trying to connect everything. And they'll do that with the stories or the information that they're given to try and sort of build that bigger picture and to help with what people are investigating or the areas to even investigate. Because the mill is vast, it's absolutely huge. There's some areas we let groups in, some we don't, some areas that are quite nasty, to be honest with you. The one area that we don't let groups into very often is our basements. They've got a lot of dark history to them. And recently, again, when I was filming with this documentary, it's one of the areas they were very keen on and I had to say they were very privileged to be able to go down there. I managed to get approval from the owners at the time. So we got down, we investigated that area. I think we were down there for, I think it was only a few minutes and we had to leave quite quickly just because they kind of felt this very sort of horrid presence that was really affecting one of our team and it was actually one of our team rather than one of the psychic mediums, et cetera. It was nothing to do with anyone from the documentary, it was actually one of our team members. She had a very bad experience and she felt very threatened and she had to leave extremely quickly. So it was all over within a few minutes with her, came back upstairs and she actually had to leave for the rest of the evening. She couldn't continue with it. I then went back downstairs with them again, had a similar feeling that something didn't feel very nice downstairs. And I can't describe it, I didn't see, nothing happened. We weren't talked to or anything like that. It just felt like someone didn't want any of us there. I came back up and it's actually quite funny. I spoke to my mum. My mum works at Wookie Hole. She's the retail manager there and she's worked there for longer than me, so she's 30 years plus, I believe. And I told her about the story within the basements and she never told me this, but she said there was stories of a mill worker that was horrible. He was an evil person. The way he used to treat people was horrific. He was a very angry person. I can't remember if she said to me how he died, but he was an extremely nasty person and it tied in. And I never knew that story. I had no inkling of that whatsoever. And I didn't tell the documentary guys anything about it, I didn't tell my colleague anything about it. No one knew anything like that. But it all tied in afterwards. And that's some of the things that we find it's very strange.

Michelle: And again, just with the nature of the location being so vast, as you mentioned, these are things that, again, over time and with further research and more digging into some of these stories, who knows what else again in the future gets uncovered? And how that then pieces in with things that happen or with personal accounts from people that have worked there in the past. The sky's the limit. I think when you have such a gem of a location in terms of what it can offer and what it will continue to offer in the future, which is exciting.

Chris Godchild: Yeah, definitely one of the most unique venues, that's the best way to describe it.

Michelle: So do you have any particular plans for further research, specific research for the mill or for the caves?

Chris Godchild: So, like I said, we've expanded recently with our team. We've got some lovely people that are actually part of our guiding team. Now. We've got one gentleman in particular and he's got a real passion for the history of the caves and the mill. He's constantly coming up with new information, new articles. It's just amazing what he's actually managing to dig up. So he's constantly bringing us new pieces of information that we're either acting upon because we'd like to get that information used again as part of the customer offering, or just information that's just really exciting to find out about. We didn't even realize, or I didn't realize really, that we've just recently opened a little refreshments unit out in our valley. There was actually a little coffee shop or a cafe there many years ago, and he found the newspaper article and it's almost in the most identical same place. It's right next to where we originally had it. We had no idea about that. I didn't even know that existed. It's silly little things like that that they managed to find and bring up that are really interesting. And the same thing with the papermer, constant information overload with that, to be honest with you. It's just fascinating.

Michelle: It's incredible. And I think there's something very symbiotic when you find things like that, when you find those connections that almost bring things to full circle. When you can find that newspaper article that connects with something that you've got now. And having that close connection in terms of location. I mean, it's almost as if it was meant to be, which is kind of sneaky.

Chris Godchild: Yeah, definitely.

Michelle: It's honestly an incredible location. It's one I hope people come and explore, because you really can dive into it for so many different reasons. Whether it's the history, whether it's the paranormal, whether it's geography, whether it's just kind of understanding this community and how it's kind of evolved and kind of, as you mentioned, sprung up around just this cave water source, and then suddenly you've got this business, and then communities cropping up around it. I mean, it's really quite fascinating. We'll have to make sure that we kind of put in all of your details so that anybody who wants to find out more can be easily signposted, because I'm sure there's going to be plenty of people wanting to come and explore and see what you've got on offer there, because it is just so incredibly unique. It's very different. Like I said, whether it's for the history or whether it's for the paranormal, it offers something very different to a lot of locations.

Chris Godchild: Yes, definitely. And like I said, it's just phenomenal. And no day is the same for me either. When I go to work, I get presented with different things, different findings, different information. It's just great. And like I said, I'm still there almost 23 years on, so absolutely love the place. It's magical, it's unique, it's a little bit of everything.

Michelle: It's honestly brilliant just being able to talk to somebody so passionate about their job, who has been there for that length of time, because it's pretty unheard of to find someone working in the same location for 23 years. It doesn't happen to many people. And I think it's a real testimony to the location itself that it's a place you want to continue to be part of. But I think it's also very clear that it's obviously something that you're very passionate about and wanting to share its history, share its story, and to continue to find out more and more about it, which is exciting, I think, for all the future things that you're going to uncover, really, and be able to share and continue to share.

Chris Godchild: Definitely. I truly enjoy it, truly love it. Like I said, no day is the same and the actual business itself has expanded. Before, we were just a cave. After that, we went into the paper mill, turned that into a tourist attraction. It was the caves and mill. Now we've got a holiday park, we've got a hotel. We've added all sorts of fun stuff in to make it a family destination as well. We have lots of fun things. We get loads of filming and stuff that happens, too. One of my fun favorites that happens quite often is Doctor Who. Doctor who come and film with us. They've done a couple of the big episodes. We have David Tennant do his final episode in The Caves at one point. Absolutely phenomenal. Even to be used as a location for that and getting the word out there about us. It's great. Truly is amazing.

Michelle: See, I didn't know that one. Being a Doctor Who fan, I did not know that one. The things you discovered doing a podcast, honestly, I did not know that. And I've had several children I've taught in my classes who are Doctor Who enthusiasts, who knew every single detail. And I'm surprised it's not something that's ever come up in conversation, considering I've been told pretty much everything else at some point. But, yeah, that's incredible that you've had filming like that on the location. That's really exciting.

Chris Godchild: Yeah, we've had David Tennant, which was fantastic. We've also had I think it was Revenge of the Cyberman. It was, yeah. So revenge of the Cybermen in 1975. They filmed it in The Caves as well. Yeah, there's been a few times a Doctor Who's been there. It's absolutely great.

Michelle: Again, it's just because I think it's so different and so unique. It is really incredible. And for anybody listening, it's one that you have to go to at least once just to experience it, because it's unlike anything else. It really is. And you have the Mill, you have the Caves. There's different things that you really can explore and come away with very different experiences. And again, not many locations kind of offer that I think. So you're getting something pretty exciting and pretty rare, which, like I said, I really hope people take up and hopefully people listening will easily be signposted to do precisely that and to come along and find out more about what you're doing and what you found out and take part in some of these tools. Because it's an opportunity that I really highly recommend and think that people would find really valuable.

Chris Godchild: Definitely. Thank you.

Michelle: Thank you so much for your time tonight, Chris. I mean, honestly, it's so incredible being able to chat to someone so truly, 100% passionate about where they work and the location that they love. So thank you so much for your time in coming along and sharing some of that history and the paranormal reports and things. And like I said, I hope it means that some new visitors come along and find you and explore the locations, because they're phenomenal. I really recommend them.

Chris Godchild: Fantastic. Thank you, Michelle. It's been really great to have a chat with you as well.

Michelle: And I'll say goodbye to everybody listening. Bye, everybody.