UFOs, Consciousness, and the Paranormal: A Deep Dive with Grant Cameron

All houses in which men have lived and died, or haunted houses.

Through the open door, the harmless phantoms on their errands glide with feet that make no sound upon the floor.

There are places where history lingers, where time slips, if only for a moment, where echoes of the past whisper in darkened halls and forgotten corridors.

Old buildings hold more than just bricks and mortar.

They carry the weight of those who came before.

Laughter, sorrow, love, loss.

And sometimes, just sometimes, the veil lifts, revealing something beyond.

From spectral figures glimpsed in candlelight to stories carved into the very walls themselves, Haunted History Chronicles delves into the history, the hauntings, and the echoes of the past that refuse to fade.

But the journey for the podcast doesn't stop there.

We explore the strange and the supernatural, from folklore that has shaped beliefs for centuries to unexplained encounters that defy reason, tales of restless spirits, omens, cryptic legends, and mysteries that have endured through time.

Join me as we unravel the haunted, the historical, and the hidden.

So dim the lights settle in and step beyond the veil.

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Because history, folklore, and the paranormal are never truly silent, some doors, once opened, can never be closed.

Welcome to another episode of Haunted History Chronicles, where the boundaries between history, folklore and the unexplained blur into the unknown.

Today we step beyond the traditional accounts of ghosts and legends to explore something even more mysterious, Ufology, consciousness and the strange phenomena of apports.

My guest is Grant Cameron, an award-winning researcher and leading voice in the study of UFOs and non human intelligence.

With decades of investigation behind him, Grant has delved into government cover ups.

Consciousness is the key to UFO phenomena and the bizarre world of physical manifestations where objects appear and disappear without explanation.

From his early encounters with Charlie Red Star in 1975 to his groundbreaking shift in focus in 2012, Grant has been at the forefront of exploring the true nature of these mysteries.

Tonight, we'll dive deep into the world of apports, objects that seem to materialize from nowhere.

Are they linked to spirits, UFOs, or something even stranger?

How does consciousness play a role in unlocking the secrets of these manifestations?

And what do these phenomena reveal about the nature of reality itself?

From UFO crash materials with anomalous isotopic ratios to the eerie crossover between physical mediumship and extraterrestrial encounters, we'll be piercing together the puzzle of what truly lies beyond the veil of human understanding.

So settle in, open your mind, and prepare to challenge everything you think you know about the paranormal.

Because tonight, the unexplained take centre stage.

Hi Grant, thank you so much for joining me this evening.

Thank you, Michelle.

I really appreciate your interest in what I'm doing.

Would you like to start by just introducing yourself briefly?

Say a little bit about yourself and your background.

OK, I live in, I live on the West Coast of Canada now.

I used to live in the middle of Canada.

I'm living what's called God's country here in, in Vancouver.

I, I've been doing the UFO phenomena for 50 years, started in May of 1975.

I did it until 2012 and it was at that point I heard a lecture by Colin Andrews in Nevada.

And I had was what I, some people refer to as a download where I got sort of the message, this is all got to do with consciousness.

And it came with absolute certainty.

And at that point in my career, I shifted from lights in the sky, you know, government's conspiracy, which I, I still do, but I try to stay away from it and set my ideas on how does the world work?

What, what is this phenomena we're looking at?

And so I'm more in the consciousness field.

I think Colin Andrews started, then I came on and now you'll hear in the UFO field a lot of people talking about consciousness, but I don't really think they really know what they're talking about.

It's it's where I've gone and it's a 50 year trip and I've been very honoured in my life to have been able to go down this road.

I'm just kind of digging into that journey that you've been on so far, just a little bit deeper.

I mean, you mentioned there that you've been involved in this research for, for decades.

Do you want to just briefly share what the first experience was that you yourself personally encountered that led you into this world of UFO research?

OK, Well, basically what happened was I was 21 years old.

I was at university looking at things like calculus and saying what is a function?

Where are the numbers?

How am I going to ever make any money with this, like this?

I was just sort of like, I couldn't believe I was there.

And at that point, I had no interest in UFOs.

I don't think I'd ever thought about it.

Extraterrestrials.

I was kind of interested in the Edgar Cayce and weird stuff.

And I was raised very religious, so I had a background and there, there was, you know, miracles in the Bible And I, you know, I, I didn't go down that road, but that's where I was my mother intended me to go.

And anyway, it was a, there was a UFO that was being seen in in Manitoba, which is the middle province in Canada, right in the middle and just above the US border, a town called Carmen.

And there was this UFO called Charlie Red Star that was being seen there repeatedly, almost night after night after night.

And as young kids, we would drive around the city, the big city I lived in Winnipeg, which is a pretty big city, and do nothing.

And I said to my friend, I said, Larry, why don't we go out and see what they're looking at?

And he said, yeah, OK, we'll go.

And we, and this is February of 1975.

And we didn't go because neither of us had any interest in UFOs.

And I completely forgot about it.

Then in May of 1975, the most important event happened.

There was a local TV station that caught this thing jumping off the ground.

For people in your audience who are familiar with these, the whole Nimitz story, The Nimitz story tells us this story of an object going from 80,000 feet down to sea level in 7/8 of a second.

Well, this object was caught on film jumping from the ground.

It went from the ground to about 5000 feet in the air in three frames of film, which is basically 1/8 of a second.

And it lit up the whole horizon in the one frame, one eight, 124th of a frame, 124th of a second.

The complete horizon lit up.

And this film went on on the the TV station and I saw it and they did a little 8 minute documentary as this thing flew across the sky and it was rotating going up and down.

It was like I was like, wow.

So I said to my friend later, I said, fine, let's let's go just see the video.

And he said, OK, we'll go.

So we go out there and we were in this town and we were looking around and trying to stay to ourselves.

Like I said, we're looking at and we're looking at stars and planets.

And I had no background in astronomy or anything, so I didn't know what I was looking at.

It's like, wow, whatever they're looking at, it ain't very important.

It's like A and and so my friend said we were there for an hour in the town, out of the town, driving around.

And so my friend, we drove out of the town.

We were about a mile east of the town.

And my friend said, OK, we'll turn around.

We'll go back into town one more time and if you don't see anything, let's go home.

I said, great, this has been a total waste of time.

And, and, and I always describe it as like, you buy the lottery ticket and, you know, there's a chance you're going to win.

And, you know, yeah, I'm not going to win.

I mean, there's a chance I can win, but I'm not going to win.

It's the same thing here.

We're not going to see anything.

And sure enough, an hour later, we hadn't seen anything.

We turned the car to go West back into the town.

And as we turned the car, we started to go and it came from the left to the right.

It was down low, right in front of the car.

It was, it was like it was alive.

It's like a red plasma object, fairly big, but either fairly big or fairly close at night.

You really can't tell.

But and nobody in the car said, is that it?

Is that what they're looking at?

If that's what they're looking at, everybody's like, there it is.

It's like so obvious.

It was like holy cow.

And it was like my impression was, wow, there are miracles because it was like they're miracles in the Bibles, but there's no miracles in the miracle.

Wow, there are miracles.

It's like, I could not believe I'd actually seen this thing.

I was going, wow.

So it was coming across and it was, it was bobbing up and down and it was going very, very slow.

I don't know, 30-40 miles an hour right in front of the car and it was going north and there was a set of school buses there.

So I said to Larry, stop, stop, stop it.

And as the car was, I was still getting out of the car as the car was moving.

And what I wanted to do is run through the ditch and across the parking lot because I wanted, I knew it was going to go so low.

I was going to go in behind these school buses and I wanted to watch it.

I remember I was at the school buses and I was watching this thing.

It just slowly pulsing and it just flew off.

And then I dragged all my friends out there two nights later, I said, man, you got to see this man, let's change your life.

This man was just really excited.

And so I dragged all my friends out there and an hour later they said, we're going back to Winnipeg.

I said no, no, to go back to Winnipeg.

You got to see this.

This is unbelievable.

They said, Nah, we're hungry.

We're going back to Winnipeg for pizza.

And all my friends left.

There was 28 people there when he started.

It was and it was in sort of out of the town and it was, there was there was like these roads all over the place and there's people all over the place because everybody in the city was trying to see this thing.

And we were just in one group of that was sitting on one of these roads and there was only about eight of us left when the when the thing finally came.

And the second night there was we brought some kids out there who were doing, you know, science projects and stuff like that.

And they were sitting in the field.

I remember the second night and there was just this flash, like a flash cube on the western horizon.

And one of the kids yelled and he said, right, Is that it?

And I go, I don't know, I guess so.

And then flash, flash and it started jumping around the sky.

It was the kids call the young kids.

I interviewed some young kids there and they said, we saw this thing out of the window.

It's called the, the bouncing ping pong ball.

I said, I saw that too.

And it was like a bouncing ping pong ball.

It was bouncing around to the sky, up and down.

And, and the, the kids were all excited and they came running out of the out of the field into onto the road.

And the car beside us had a it was a Courier car.

There was three guys and a girl and I remember as it was coming this guy had a Nikon camera with a with a motor drive on it.

This is when motor drives came out that would advance to film very fast.

So this girl couldn't see it and she's crying.

I can't see it again.

So people are yelling and swearing and yelling, jumping up and down as this thing is bouncing around the sky.

I can't see it.

So show with me and he nobody talked to her.

Everybody just ignored her and I could hear this camera he has on top of the car and he's gone click and he was just unloading the camera as this thing came at us and it came flying right at us and came in fairly close and then turn and it sort of went back in the direction where it came and I was just flying away.

I was looking at it and I was thinking like, wow, that could be an extraterrestrial from another planet.

I'm so lucky to see this like this.

Wow, that's so cool.

And then I'm and then I'm going, but what's it doing?

It's not doing anything.

It's just flying along the book.

Every time I saw it, it wasn't doing anything.

It was just our flying along.

So when I I talked to UFO witnesses, I would say the same thing when they see a UFOI say, what's it doing?

And they go, I wouldn't do any.

It was just there.

And so I came up with this theory.

I called the the Jesus the Jesus circus or the theory of wow is what the phenomena I believe is doing is just wants you to see it.

That's why they have lights on them so you could see them.

They just want you to go, well, what the heck's going on?

Because they want you to know the world is not the way you think it is.

And they're trying to expand people's consciousness by by doing weird things like cattle mutilations and crop circles and all this weird stuff.

And nobody's going to figure it out.

But people are just thinking.

And so that's what got me down the rabbit hole.

I interviewed everybody in, in the, not everybody in the town.

I interviewed piles of people because over half the people in this small town of 2000 people claimed that they had seen this thing.

So I, I did this book and it took it to the publishers and most of them, you know, they weren't interested.

And then I went to the local publisher in Winnipeg, which is a big city, and everybody in the city knew this story about this UFO that's lying around there.

And her response to me was, Mr. Cameron, you may believe in this kind of stuff.

Count me among the unbelievers.

And I went, what, are you kidding me?

And that was the last time I did sightings.

I said, this is a total waste of time.

These are like stories you can tell your people.

This is, I don't really care about sightings anymore.

All I want to know is I'm a, I'm not maybe the smartest guy.

I don't have a PhD, but somebody's got to know what's going on here.

And so I started this pursuit in my career, my UFO career, to find the highest level official that I could find.

And then just quietly and listen to them to see what they were saying about UFOs 'cause that's the things there are some people who know more than I do.

And my, my whole job was to go first to the Canadian government, then to the guy who was the president of Penn State University at 14 honorary doctorate degrees who helped establish the cover up.

And from there it went to the president.

Well, the president's got to know what's going on.

He's the most powerful guy in the world.

And then it went finally to intelligence officials, a high level of intelligence officials who I'm sort of still interacting with now.

In fact, I believe I'm interacting with the man who briefed Donald Trump.

It's, I mean, it's quite an impressive journey in the sense that this is something that has been a real passion and an interest for the length of time that you have been researching and engaging with the topic.

And you mentioned earlier briefly something that happened to you in 2012, which really caused this, this shift in, in terms of how you approach the subject.

Do you want to just tell us a little bit more about that turning point, what that was and and why you pivoted the way that you did?

OK, this is something that I actually wrote a book on called Inspired the Paranormal World of Creativity.

And what I discovered after my event was that a lot of stuff, for example, yesterday, the song by by The Beatles came in a download to Paul McCartney in the middle of the night.

He woke up with his dream and and quickly got up and on the piano and sort of recorded.

And then he went running around to people and he said, have you heard this song?

Have you heard this song?

And I go, no, I've never heard that song because he figured he'd heard it somewhere and he was just remembering it.

And then he said, no, no, I've never heard that song before.

And it's what the biggest, the most recorded song in the 20th century.

So I realized that this was happening.

So people call it downloads or intuitive insights and stuff like that.

And the whole idea that that I've come to and I've written a number of books on this contact modalities is a big one.

And it's the idea that you can use a modality.

There's certain ways you can do it through hypnosis, through trauma, through injury, through near death experience.

And there's a field, there's a field out there where all the information is a 40% of all UFO experiencers say at one point during their experience they knew the answer to everything in the universe.

Near death experience.

People 31% say at one point during their experience they knew the answer to everything in the universe.

So the idea is that everything in the universe is already there.

All the answers are there, inventions are there, songs are there.

And it's the ability to shut down the left brain and get into a sort of a Theta state where the right brain, the female right brain can link into the universe.

The the female brain is linked to the universe.

The the left brain is the male brain.

It's the ego.

It's the little voice that's talking.

It wants to fight, it wants to go to war, all this kind of stuff.

It's the ability to shut that left ego brain down and then you can get into the field and get the material and bring it back.

So that was one of the ideas is you, you can figure out what's going on by going into the field find like trans Chandlers, finding people who've had encounters with UFO entities and what were they told and stuff like that.

And so in 2012, I again, I didn't know consciousness is what I was basically told.

As I point out, I, I couldn't have spelled consciousness in 2012 and I couldn't care less.

I mean, I had no interest whatsoever.

I had no interest in watching Colin Andrews give a lecture on crop circles.

I wasn't interested in crop circles.

So what was happening was it was at an event where the events would go from 8:00 in the morning to 11:00 at night and it went for seven days or 8 days or something like that.

So you wouldn't go to every single lecture.

So you would pick and choose which lectures you went.

So I saw Colin Andrews had was lecturing and at that point Colin had said that he had hired private investigators in 80% of crop circles were were faked.

And so there was a big controversy and everybody sort of wanted to hang Colin Andrews.

And I thought, well, that's pretty controversial.

I wonder what he's going to say about this.

And he is a very prominent guy.

I've never seen a lecturer.

I should, you know, pay him the honor and go and see his lecturer.

I went in there, but again, it was I had no interest in being in there.

So one of the contact modalities that I use is daydreaming.

So this is what you do if you're walking.

If you walk, walk, walk, walk, and you walk, it'll quiet the left brain down and then suddenly ideas will pop in your head.

So that's the one I use.

So I was in the lecture, I had no interest in being in lecture.

I was thinking about maybe I should go across the river to the to the library, maybe I should go for lunch.

What should I do?

And I was sort of listening to him, but I wasn't listening to him.

And he was talking about interacting with people who hoax crop circles, that they were getting these downloads.

They were being told go and put this this thing in a field.

And then Colin would find out that there was women meditating in the field, the same field at the same time, who were meditating, the same design.

And then what happened was it happened instantaneously, which people will describe with this, this with these downloads instantaneously.

And three things came into my head.

These are things I had discovered already.

All it did was take the three things, put them in my head at the same time.

And I went, oh, it's almost like, oh, yeah, OK, I forgot about that.

It's like you at one point, you knew the answer, you forgot the answer.

And they you open the veil and and suddenly they show you again.

Don't you remember we told you about this?

Oh, yeah.

OK.

And what it was, there's three things. 1 is a a line in a top secret document that was written in Canada by Wilbert Smith, who ran the Canadian government UFO investigation in the early 1950s.

And he was saying, I, I talked to American officials.

I was told the following things.

Flying saucers exist.

It's the most highly classified subject in the United States, rated two points higher than the hydrogen bomb.

It's of tremendous significance to the Americans.

There's a small group by doctor, headed by Doctor van der Bush, who's trying to figure out what's going on.

And I would tell these four items to people in this Toxico memo.

But what came into my mind was the next line in the document.

And the next line in the document says, and we were also told by American officials that other things might be associated with the flying sauces, such as mental phenomena.

The Americans aren't doing very well because they said if we're working on the problem, they're willing to exchange credentials and talk to us about it.

So the whole thing was in 1950, before anybody talked to an alien.

The first contact with aliens wasn't until Adamski started talking to aliens.

So before anybody talked to an alien, the Americans already knew that telepathy was involved.

So how would they know that unless they had a live alien, unless they had some interaction with the, with the, with the contact, with the experience of the aliens, they wouldn't know.

So that was the line that said.

Mental phenomena may be involved.

The next line that came into my head was this doctor Eric Walker, who was at one point was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of the Institute for Defense Analysis, which is a top military think tank in the United States.

We were talking to him and at one point he cut off the interview.

It was actually a British guy that was interviewing him.

And he said, hey, let me ask you a question.

And the guy said what?

What do you know about ESP?

And the guy?

You really didn't have an answer.

So he said, look, unless you understand about ESP and how it works, you will not be taken into the control group, the group that controls the UFO phenomena.

And so then that was the second thing that came into my head.

And instantaneously the third thing that came into my head was the former director of MUFON, the big UFO investigation group.

John Harsen is in a lecture in 1993, two years after Walker made this statement.

He's in a lecture with, with Ben Rich, who ran Lucky Skunk Corps, just was rumored to be the ones that are back engineering the flying saucer.

And as Ben Rich is leaving the building, he said, Ben, Ben, I had a sighting when I was 10 years old in the backyard with this flying saucer.

And I've been obsessed with flying saucers.

I, I got an engineering degree so I could do it.

How do they get here?

Ben?

How, how does the propulsion system work?

And Ben turned around and said exactly word for word what Walker said two years before.

He said, Hey, can I ask you a question?

We knew about USB.

And then Jan Harrison said it means everything in time and space is connected.

That's how it works.

Turned around, walked away.

He got in his car and drove away.

So these three things came into my head and it was like, oh, that's, that's but I still didn't understand that.

I thought it was consciousness, but I didn't realize there was non local consciousness.

And it started to go and it got bigger and bigger and bigger as to what it is.

And I do believe that is that is the bottom line to this thing that everybody's missing is this, this consciousness element.

And then it's too much to get into right now.

But I had another download in 2016 when I was walking, I was walking downtown where I got 24 things one after another.

And I can now sense, I know when I'm in the field.

I know when when an idea comes in my head, I know whether it's my mind or something, or something in a higher field.

There's a feeling.

It's almost like if I were to say to you remember that kid we used to play with when you know that kid when we were very young, that kid was had kind of weird.

And then then you say a name and I go, oh, yeah, that's the kid.

And it's like that feeling.

It's like, oh, yeah.

And so that that feeling comes in your head when you get an idea.

It's like, oh, yeah.

And I started to write these things down.

I got 24 things.

Basically the idea was, is it, is the world local or is it non local?

Is it pattern?

Is it is, is it random?

And, and you think it's this, it's actually this, you think it's this, it's actually this.

You're, you're explaining, you're, you're explaining, you're not, you're, you're describing, you're not explaining and these things.

And then we'll stop after 15.

And then I put the pen back in my pocket and start to walk again.

All of a sudden I could feel it coming again.

I get the pen out and start writing again.

So I've used that protocol and a number of people, even Gary Nolan, if you're familiar with the main UFO characters, Gary Nolan from Stanford University actually uses the same process.

And I actually said, can I get a quote from you?

And, and, and because he had said I don't know how it works.

I don't know if there's little elves in my head or what's going on.

And this guy's got 5 patents and own the biggest, runs a big lab at Stanford University.

So I don't know, you know, it's elves in my head or what it is, but I know how to make it work.

And he talks about you go through the process, you ask all the questions and stuff like that.

And then you sort of let it go.

You write it down the question on the piece of paper and you put it beside the bed.

And he said either the next day or within the next couple of days, the answer, not an idea.

The answer is in my head.

And so this is this is the process I've gone to now, which is very exciting.

And when we get to that point of being able to access the field, which we can now sort of do with these telepathy, these non verbal autistic kids where the the experiments are starting.

These kids are 100% telepathic.

They're talking to dead people.

They claim to be talking to spirit people answers and they speak different languages.

I think we're on the verge of of a lot of discovery that's about to happen and the materialistic world view is is about to collapse.

And you know, again, just coming back to what we've been speaking about and what you've shared so far, I mean, this is content that you've spoken widely about.

You've lectured widely on these, on these topic areas.

You've written about these these areas and you've been recognized with some pretty prestigious awards over the course of the many years that you've been in this field, studying this field and talking about this field.

How has that reception to your work evolved, would you say over over the years, you know, especially with your your newer focus on consciousness that you were just talking about?

Well, what I, that's something that I mentioned like Colin Andrews started, I was sort of the second to come on board and Chris Bledsoe started coming on.

He had an experience.

He had an experience was a couple of days after my down low experience.

And the other one was Ray Hernandez who ran the, the Free Foundation where they did the, the 4200 experiences.

His event happened a couple days after mine.

And all, all of us came up with this idea of consciousness where we were shown things and told that that consciousness was the bottom of it.

But in 2012, and I, I don't know if people, I've been in so long, I, I always pointed out to people, this is not the way it was in 1975.

You got to realize that the phenomena is changing.

It's not flying saucers anymore.

Now it's orbs.

They, they went from ground traces, which haven't happened for 25 years to crop circles.

They just keep doing, they do this for a while, then they do this, then they do this and it keeps changing and the, and the, the whole field is changing.

So in 2012, it was very dangerous to talk about consciousness because nobody knew.

Now it's like the, the end thing, people are talking about consciousness.

And that's where you see the, the pattern where people think we're not really getting anywhere.

And I say, no, no, we're actually getting somewhere because the, the basically the way this thing works is if you take a look at Max Planck, who was the the godfather of quantum physics, Max Planck had the same problem of trying to get this idea out that he was attacked.

And what he said is when you do not advance a scientific idea by convincing your opponent that he's wrong, science advances.

When the opponent dies, the new generation that comes along is not offended with the idea.

And that's basically what it is.

It's this idea that if you're a new idea and you're putting it out, you're going to get attacked from a lot of different areas.

So there was some attacks in the early days and now a lot of people talking about, I think they're just talking about because they know it's a buzzword.

It is so important to to the whole idea of the development.

It says that when I had the download experience, it actually became more complex, more complex.

And then I had even the experience with 36 people who basically show up on my doorstep.

I didn't really go looking for them because it wasn't on the Internet.

And people who said they'd flown the craft and remember the first time the woman that that I was talking, I was lecturing on unconsciousness in Phoenix, AZ.

And the the woman that was, you know, controlling the lecture came to me and said, are you still going to talk to Pam Dupuis?

And I said, yeah, I guess so.

And I'm thinking I must have agreed to talk to this woman I didn't remember.

And she said, OK, she's coming to my house on Monday and you can talk to her.

And so I have this woman's house on Monday and I'm at this woman comes to the door and I and she says, what does Stacey tell you about me?

And I go, nothing.

She just said I'm supposed to talk to you.

That's good.

She's going to walking in.

She's just telling me I've been abducted and I a remote view for the government.

And it's all this sort of stuff.

And you hear this, you know, all the time.

You hear these weird stories.

And it's like, OK, whatever, She's telling these weird stories.

And then she says, she says, oh, and I was flying the craft last night.

And I said, you are what?

I couldn't believe it.

I could not believe she had said this.

And this was in 2013.

I said, what?

You fly the craft?

She was like 75 years old.

And in my head, I'm thinking he was crazy lady.

I, I was ready to throw out a husband thinking like, all I could think about was Saudi Arabian women who, you know, at that time for sure, you know, we're not allowed to drive a car unless there's a man in the car.

And I'm thinking they let you fly the craft.

It's just, yeah, flowing 3 different models.

And I said, you, you flew the craft.

And she said, yeah, flew the craft.

I said, well, how do you fly the craft?

She says, oh, you do it with your mind, you do it with consciousness.

I go, oh, suddenly had occurred to me why they had set me up with this woman.

And so she told me, she told me, you know, bizarre things about, you know, the, the flying the craft and how it's done with the mind and stuff like that.

And then suddenly all these other people started showing up.

Whitley Strieber and 1 of this John Ramirez from the CIA and all those people and a guy who was a 747 airline pilot, a captain and a guy who was AUS Air Force retired Colonel flying combat in Iraq.

All these people tell me the same story and they would tell me the story.

Basically the idea that the craft is, is conscious.

They appear on the craft, the, the, the craft is conscious.

They touch something on the craft, but everybody touched something different, which is really significant.

It's like how could it possibly be that every touches something different?

And so they would touch something on the craft and then they would suddenly come one of the craft, whatever the craft, whatever they were thinking is what the craft would do.

But the important part was that the beings would say to them, OK, Michelle, here's how it works.

It's within you, Go within yourself.

When you can imagine where you want to go, then we'll go there.

And my friend Ron says, I would like to see the Milky Way from a distance.

So they said to him, OK, Ron, it's within you, go within yourself.

When you can imagine it, then we'll go there.

And he said he sat, he was sitting in his chair.

And he said all of a sudden it was like G force, intense G force for one second.

He looked out the window and there was the Milky Way in the distance.

And it's that kind of stuff where the the consciousness just gets more, the story gets more and more elaborate, which I think the nature of reality is the my understanding of how the world works is that God did not create the heaven and the earth.

God created the sparks of the divine and we're creating the the heavens and the earth.

It's all made out of consciousness and it's kind of, it can go out of consciousness in out of existence into existence when you see it becomes real.

And that's I think the part that the government is trying to cover up.

They have some idea about this idea that the world is not the way you you think it is.

And you have these people who believe this very ancient sort of Newtonian worldview and the idea that that this all may be an illusion.

There's just, there's just waves and your mind is making this stuff up and you can move from here to the other side of the universe instantaneously.

It's just so much more elaborate.

But what it is to me is, is the idea that with consciousness is creating it, the universe is getting more and more complex and people are seeing themselves having more experiences.

And that's what the whole universe is about is that it's, it's to make this world more complex and more elaborate.

And that's what we're doing here.

And that's what the consciousness is doing.

So it's taking US1 step at a time.

It'll never land on the White House lawn because that's left brain that there it's come down to say what the Americans would say when they went to Iraq.

We're here to bring you freedom, democracy, Jesus and McDonald's.

And then they they point the guns.

They say, get the hell out of my country.

What do you think you're doing?

Like, like get out of here.

And that's what we do.

The left brain thing.

We want to tell people what to do and stuff like that.

The right brain idea the way they are is they're doing these weird things that drag you down this road and we are making headway.

People saying you're not.

And I say if you if you go to Area 51, you say to Great Britain in Canada, in the United States, in China, you can go Area 51.

Oh, yeah, I know what that is, near death experience.

I know what that is.

You know, flying saucer.

Yeah, I know what that is.

And you don't realize that the consciousness is rising, that people are basically now accepting these ideas.

The others in Area 51, there's near death experiences.

They may not believe near death experiences, but it's now become common parlance that people are talking about this kind of stuff.

And that's what the phenomena is doing.

It's moving us and it's getting us to figure it out by doing the Jesus earth.

So does these miracles and all these weird things and they're just going, oh, what's going on here?

And everybody gets all excited.

And once they get your attention with the miracles, then they deliver the message.

And the message is definitely oneness.

It's about the idea that everything is one.

Everything is connected and quit trying to kill everybody.

The idea of separation or the way I describe separation.

The only, the only thing that is the all.

The definition of evil in the modern world is based upon one thing and one thing only, the mistaken belief in separation.

So that's what they're saying.

Once you believe that somebody is not divine and I'm divine, you can put them in the darkness.

That same thing will pull you into the darkness with it.

And what you damn dams you back.

What blesses you, blesses you in return.

To say I am the light and you are not is the shadow pretending to be the light.

Everybody's divine.

Everybody's doing this creation thing, and we have to realize we're all one.

Almost like Ronald Reagan said.

I often wondered how the world would unite faced with a threat from an alien race.

Are we already not in a war?

The division and separation and the separation of war and the threats of war.

And that's what it's all about.

That's the aliens.

You're trying to get this idea.

It's one, they're all one thing and they're just gradually moving us, but they're making us figure it out rather than coming in down and giving us a lecture.

And just kind of touching upon something that you you you mentioned briefly there when you were when you were speaking, I mean you spoke about the, the UFO cover up.

You know, in your opinion, is that cover up legal or are there aspects that go beyond governmental jurisdiction?

No, I believe it's absolutely legal.

That's one of the things I spend a lot of time on.

I'm writing a another book called Silence the case for UFO for for non UFO disclosure and the case for true disclosure.

The true disclosure is what the aliens want to disclose because they're covering up as well.

The aliens are not lying on the white line so they're covering up as well.

But the government cover up is absolutely legal.

The way it's happened and the people got to listen to is a guy by name Jim Semivan, who's an experiencer had the beings in his room.

He was an SES 2, which is the equivalent of A2 star general at the CIA.

He's quite public about his events and he said that it started with a PEED, which is the presidential emergency action document.

He said it's totally legal.

And I believe the the problem is the United States is built on fear.

It's the most fearful country in the world.

You have 450 million guns.

Everybody's afraid of everybody.

The whether your color, your skin or your, whether you come across the border or whatever, it's that fear, fear, fear, fear.

And what has happened is the military industrial complex has played off that fear.

So over the years, it's gone to grow into almost a $900 billion defense budget.

Everybody's an enemy, even Canada now is considered to be an enemy.

Greenland, it's like we're going to, you know, they may invade Canada.

And now Canada, which is like one of those peaceful countries in the world, suddenly we're the enemy.

And it's, and what you're doing is you're creating fear, more fear, more fear.

So what they've done is they've they've got a secret like the UFOs comes in and it's like they're fearful.

So we can't give it to China.

We can't go to Russia.

Let's cover it up.

And then next guy has a better, better thing.

OK, let's add this to the cover up.

And one of the guys whose name is Eric Davis, he's Quantum astrophysicist, has said and he's got security clearances.

He maintains that in these classified programs, there's 10 times the money spent on security as on the program.

So the security gets deeper and deeper.

And let's add this, let's add this security, you know, special comparison, analyzed information.

And then they, because everybody's afraid that the thing's going to leak.

So you've, you've developed all these levels of secrecy all the way down so that there's no way you can get out.

It's just so deeply held, so few people know about it.

And that that's what, what's, what's basically happened this thing.

So Jim Semigand, who got he's, he had two briefings, the 1 briefing, he said that they told him he was still at the CIA.

They said get a room for 6 to 8 hours, a conference room.

And he said he got the conference room and these guys came in and he said the guys that came in had as many tickets as he had, which means your, your clearances, you're cleared for this, you know, stealth program, you're still cleared for this.

You're cleared for that.

They had as many tickets as I had and they had non escort patches, which means they could walk around the CIA any way they want.

Nobody had to take them around.

They had that much power.

And he said these guys came into the room for the six to eight hours and he said they scared to live in daylights on me.

So they told the whole story.

Now Jim Semivan has said, no, it's totally legal.

That's the whole thing.

The program was set up.

The problem you have is you got to change the law.

The law has been built with this levels and levels, levels, levels of security.

And people will say, well, they this the, the Congress doesn't know, which is not true.

One of the, the other people who said it was legal is the guy who ran the OSSAP program, which is the big DIA program that everybody hears about it, Skinwalker Ranch.

And also that guy's name was James Mccaskey.

And he said, I don't know about calm Kalaher was the other guy who was running it.

He said, but I never saw anything legal and illegal when I was operating the program.

All I saw was very high levels of security.

And that's all it is hidden behind these levels of security.

So what you got to do is you got to change the law.

You got to go into Congress and you got to change the law, which made all these programs so that you've allowed all these programs to, to do to cover up these programs through fear.

And now you got to change it.

And it's, and it's run by the executive branch, which is another thing that that makes it legal is that the executive branch only briefs what they're called the Gang of Eight.

And people say, no, the Gang of 8 is not being briefed.

But I know they're being briefed because James Zakowski tells the story and he's the guy around the ASAP program.

He said in 2011, I was in a congressional facility.

Now congressional facility means your House and Senate.

It's the congressional facility, not the White House, the congressional side of the of the the government.

I was in a congressional facility and we had a long meeting about a crash flying saucer that we had managed to get access inside the craft because I guess it's very hard to get in these crafts.

We'd managed to get in it.

And then the guys that were interviewing him said what was inside the craft?

And he said, unless I get clearance, I can't talk about that.

But if you knew how the inside of the craft, you knew the inside, you'd realize that the whole rest of the book talking about what I'm talking about would be very primitive.

He said the same thing.

He said it was it was clearance.

And he said in this meeting in 2011, there was a senator in the room, which was, and it's been confirmed was Harry Reid, who is the big senator who started the ASAP program.

Harry Reid was in the room, which means a senator knew he's one of the Gang of 8.

And so I maintain, and some people have claimed, I think even James Jim Semi Van said the Gang of Eight is being briefed.

And so that's the thing.

There's eight guys who know how the whole thing works, but they're not giving the details.

They just said we have a reverse program.

That's all you need to know.

And so I absolutely believe the program is legal.

And what we're trying to do is we're trying to again, make another enemy.

And what I believe is happening in this this whole thing at Congress is there's a guy who's I think Trump's briefer, his name is Ron Pandolfi.

He calls it loons, crooks and worse.

And what's happened in the Congress, what I believe is happening is it's the weapons of mass destruction. 2.0 What you're doing is you're going in there and saying Saddam Hussein has chemical weapons, he's dangerous.

He's going to use them on the Americans.

We got to we got to start, we got a war.

We got to we got to get this guy, we got to take over the country and stuff like that.

And that's what they're doing.

They're creating this fear.

They're saying these evil aliens, they're here, they're over the missile silos.

And when I hear they're over the missile silos, thank you Jesus that they're over the missile silos.

I can like we're crazy people.

I detailed in some of my books how in a couple of places we came within two minutes of ending the world.

It's unbelievable that and to to know that the UFOs can shut down the missile style is, is a great gift to me.

But they'll they'll talk about their, you know, there's the possible threat and well, everybody's a possible threat.

Anything could be a possible threat.

And what you're doing is you want money from Congress.

So if you go in and say there's these aliens flying around, we're very curious.

We'd like to know in Congress, the agriculture, they could care less human, you know, all, all the other departments, nobody cares.

It's not, it's not my department, it's not my job.

I don't care about UFOs that are flying around.

But if you go in there and say, oh, they're kidnapping people and they're doing this, they're doing that and there's a threat and and they're over the air, the military air bases and stuff like that.

And what you do is you get the congressman so scared that they just, they just hand over the money and that the expression is once you have convinced, once you have taught a man fear, you can sell him anything.

And that's what they're doing.

They're doing this fear thing because unless they got fear going, unless they scare everybody, they're not going to get any money.

They want money to do this research.

And the other thing they want to do is these people want access to the saucers.

So the saucers are in these, these these aerospace companies.

What they want is the one that force the aerospace companies.

To release the saucers so these scientists can get access because they know this is worth billions of dollars.

So if you're a scientist and you hear they got cross, well, wow, if I could get this, I could maybe figure it out, make some money.

So they're trying to force it out of that.

It's I called the stealing of the saucers.

It's who's going to get the sausage?

Who's going to control because in the one government proposal was, oh, we want this, we want all the information released and we want eminent domain.

We want the sausage back.

And I say clearly nobody's thought about it.

It's OK.

You're the government.

You want the saucers back.

OK, so all the aerospace companies give you the saucers back.

What are you going to do with them?

Like there's a congressman, they know how to back engineer saucer.

They're going to give them back to the aerospace companies who I originally had them.

They're the experts on doing saucers.

So you've got to give them.

The government can't do anything with the saucers.

They are where they are.

And that's how it worked.

They made they did what's called source sole source contract, CIA defense, all these people make what are called source sole source contracts.

Where I come to you and I say, Michelle, okay, I want you to work for the CIA.

We'll never identify that you're working for the CIA.

You got a company, you're doing stuff that we want you to do and we'll never identify your company.

So what's happened now is they made these agreements because in 1948 didn't know 47, they didn't know what to do with the saucer.

So they got the best companies in the world that are that could possibly figure it out.

And they made this sole source contract.

They went to Battelle and said, Battelle, we'll never say you're working for us and you work on this and try to back engineer this thing.

And they've made these deals.

So now you got to back out of these deals that are sole source contracts and everybody's going to be suing everybody.

If you were a company and you didn't get part of the craft, Boeing got craft, Lockheed got craft, I went bankrupt, I didn't get a craft.

Well, I'm suing and it's going to be billions of dollars worth of lawsuits.

And this is what the government is so afraid of.

Is this what's actually going to happen when you start unraveling this thing?

And as far as I'm concerned, they're going to do everything they can to keep this undercover because there's just so many possibilities of things that could go wrong, mostly in terms of what you going to do with the saucers.

If you, I mean, what the main guy is, is this Jim Perchette.

And he's a he's a horse farmer.

So what's he going to do?

Get a wagon and go over to Lockheed and load a saucer on the wagon with his horses and take it back to his barn and start working on it?

I mean, they have no idea what the sauces, the saucers are exactly what it's supposed to be with the smartest aerospace people in the world.

And the basic idea is they cannot back engine because it's got to do with consciousness.

Even Bigelow said that these, everybody's got the crafts, but they can't, they can't make any headway because it's based on consciousness.

It's not a nuts and bolts type thing.

And in fact, the one that Lekowski talked about in 2011, he said it had no wings, it had no, it had no gas tank, it had no engine.

So what are we dealing with?

That's the whole thing.

If it hasn't, doesn't have an engine, what are you dealing with?

It's, it's this whole idea and that's why my book is so important on flying the craft.

I, I think I called it the UFO sky pilots.

And this is the idea that these people all said the same thing.

Nobody said anything different.

I would say, how do you fly a craft?

And the guy said, Oh, I fly with your mind.

Sit down and tell me, oh, it's just, I thought it was a dream.

Everything sits a dream.

Just sit down and tell me the story.

And they would all tell me the same story, which gets spiritual because they would say to me, for example, they'd say to me, I was on the craft.

The, the, the, the Colonel said to me, I was on the craft.

And he said, there's somebody behind me was saying, OK, go ahead and do it.

And he said, I don't know what to do.

And they said, you know what to do, just go and do it.

And he put his hands on his pal.

So he was the first person that talked about somebody behind him.

And then I got another witness, another witness, another was to start talking about somebody behind him.

And then Jim Semivan said this when he was when the beings were in the room, he said he asked him there was that telepathy involved.

And Jim said that's the strangest part.

He said, I'm standing there and there was this being behind me talking and he said, I don't know if it was grey or reptilian or what it was.

And he said, and it was, it was, it was behind me and had this guardian type thing going on about it.

And I went guardian type thing.

That's a that's a guardian Angel.

And I'm thinking, Oh, holy cow.

So I went to Whitley's treatment and said, Hey, Whitley, you're in the craft lots of times.

Do you ever have anybody behind you that you could you couldn't see and and they were talking to you and tell you what to do.

And he said all the time he starts telling me about he wants to steal the craftness.

Suddenly this somebody behind him is laughing is he's thinking about stealing the craft.

And this is the whole thing.

It's this consciousness thing keeps coming back to consciousness.

That's why they can't back engineer it.

And so why would you release it to the to the people if you can't figure it out?

If you stand with the president, the president says, oh, we, we, we don't do anything.

They're flying around our airspace and, and we can't do anything to stop them.

And it's got to consciousness.

We don't understand consciousness.

I mean, everything's going to melt down because the president's supposed to be this powerful guy.

He's got it all out of control.

And so this is a big problem.

And it's legal.

It's absolutely legal.

But it's been built on these foundations of fear.

So what would real disclosure then look like in in your view, how does that differ from the the slow leak of information that we've kind of been seeing in recent years?

Well, that's right.

I difference between I ask people when they say disclosure is what do you mean by disclosure?

I mean what, what do you think you want to disclose?

And people just basically say, you know, I want, I want them to release the information.

And then Doctor Eric Walker, this this very high level guy with 1400 doctor, he says, OK, when you figure it out, what are you going to do?

You're just curious.

Admit it, you're just curious and it, and people say, no, I'm not curious.

I say, yeah, you are curious what do you want?

Oh, I want them to release the fact there's, there's, there's bodies and crafts.

And so the government releases it and then they go and, and so the curiosity is satisfied for like one second and then it's like, so where'd they come from?

More curiosity.

Oh, they come from Zen reticular or whatever why they're here.

And it's like it's 1,000,000 questions one after another.

They don't have answers to any of these questions.

So that's what they're they're trying to avoid.

Is this this idea of curiosity and the that's a government disclosure that the government really doesn't know.

It's not nuts and bolts, but the the what the, the, the real disclosure is, is this whole idea that the the phenomena is doing on their cover up is they're gradually going to people putting messages to them.

And the main messages are always you're destroying the planet, you're destroying the planet.

Stop the nuclear weapons.

Everything is one, we're all together, we, we're all one family.

And you, you got to get into oneness and you, you got to, you know, bring this peace.

And these are the messages.

This is the real disclosure.

And the government doesn't want to go there because it's not their job.

Their, their job is this, this whole idea of, you know, technology.

And it's because the military's running it.

So it, you know, when they when they started, so did they go to the Science and technology committee in terms of identifying UFOs or to NASA?

No, they didn't go there.

They went to Armed Services, They went to intelligence.

It's all about weapons.

That's what they want is they want a new weapon.

We want to have a faster rocket.

We want to, you know, like a telepathy is so important with these, these non verbal autistic kids who are 100% telepathic.

And the CIA looks at and goes, Oh my God, if we could get that, Can you imagine if we go to Putin, we could read what's in his head.

We could give a message and say, this is God.

We want you to surrender.

We want you to get out of, you know, Ukraine and stuff like that.

To them it's all military applications.

So that's what they're working on.

But you can see it's not working very well.

People say, oh, they're back engineering the craft side.

Well, only they're back engine.

They're back engine nothing.

It's all consciousness related.

And if they had back engineered this stuff, why are we still doing trench warfare in in Iraq?

That's basically what it is.

You're in trenches and you you fly something over, drop a bomb on somebody.

I mean, that's like civil war, World War One stuff.

I mean, they have where's the secret technology?

It's no secret technology because it's all this consciousness thing and, and the, the, the beings are not going to release it until we grow up and, and realize that it's all one thing.

As long as we're still in an idea of separation where you're the enemy and I'm, I'm the divine guy and you're speaking the wrong language and you're, you're a threat to me.

I'm going to steal your stuff and I'm going to destroy you and stuff like that.

Because even go to the thing where I say to people to say, well, they're over our airspace.

They're interfering on our airspace.

What do you mean your airspace?

How do you own the airspace?

They were here first.

It's their airspace.

Get the heck out of their airspace.

Leave your fighter planes on the ground.

It's their airspace.

You're interfering with the UFOs and they go, no, it's our airspace.

No, nobody airs owns the airspace.

You are only on this planet for a couple of years.

You don't own anything.

You're just renting here.

And it's like, are you a renter who's going to trash the place before you leave or are you going to try to make the world a better place?

And that they have this, we have this idea what's run by the left brain.

It's me, it's mine, it's ego.

It's I need money.

I need you know what?

Every general wants to be a two star general.

So we need more people, we need more threats because I need, you know, to go to two star general or you're a billionaire.

And you said, well, that's enough.

No, no, you want 2 billion, I want 5 billion, I want 10 billion.

And it's this, the ego has totally taken over and the left brain is, is running the show.

And the right brain, which is a female brain that believes all, we should all be a family, we should all get together.

That whole idea has been trash, but it's coming on that the consciousness is making a move now people starting to realize this consciousness aspect.

And I, I think we're on the, the, the cusp of of sort of a breakthrough in terms of the understanding of how the universe actually works.

And, and a book of yours that I've been really fascinated by, which you, you wrote recently titled Weird Paranormal Tales of Apples and Manifestations goes into this strange phenomena of apples, which is something that I find particularly interesting.

Do you want to explain what an apport is and how common this occurrences are in your research when it comes to UFOs?

Yeah, that that's something that sort of goes to the point that it's all the same thing.

So we're we parse it, we say, OK, there's outports, there's mediumship, there's psychics, there's UFOs, there's, you know, remote viewing.

And the the the vision that Ray Hernandez had, I give a a consciousness lecture.

He saw it two days later.

He was on the freeway in Miami and he was pulled out of his car and taken into this sort of a non local world and the basically this thing was spinning around.

You can see these images of remote viewing and sex phenomena and UFOs and stuff like that.

And this wheel was spinning in the middle of consciousness.

And the message he was given is you got to quit parsing this stuff.

It's all the same thing.

It's works on consciousness.

So they, the conscious thing actually came from him.

Most of my books came with synchronicities and basically it was Ray Hernandez.

I didn't know it again, like I didn't know what on a port was.

I had no clue.

We were at LAX airport going to a lecture and the, the, the Uber driver didn't show up for about 45 minutes.

We were super standing there talking about stuff.

I said, hey, Ray, so who's your best guy?

You've got 2, you've done 4200 experiences.

Who's the best one?

Because that's the whole thing is you're trying to find out who's the one and then listen to the one because they got more information than anybody else.

They've been farther in the field.

They're, they're able to shut the left brain down better.

And he said, oh, Berto is the best.

And, and then I said, oh, yeah, OK.

And he's, he was ADI.

He was a federal officer or whatever and he's talking about this guy.

And then he said, oh, and he's got all these ports and they're, they're falling out of the ceiling.

He's got swords and he's got they go, he's what it's like what swords are falling on this thing.

And he said, Oh yeah.

And he's and, and then then shows me this picture of he says he's got them on.

He's got all these things on a wall.

He's got all these shelves, all these things that have manifested and I'm gone.

That is weird.

That's the weirdest thing I've ever heard in my life.

And then what it what happened was the synchronicity was I was going that lecture and then I was going to another lecture in Laughlin for Paula Harris.

And I get there and I, I'm so fascinated now with the support thing I'm looking on on the Internet and I'm going, oh man, this is cool.

And then I'm watching a lecture by Stanley Kripner, who was the expert on a ports many years ago.

And he's giving this lecture and he's talking about the supports with Jeffrey Mishlov.

And then he says, Oh, I had all these supports from this psychic.

And that's the thing about ports.

It happens with mediums, happens with psychics, happens with UFO people, happens all over the place.

These, these things are appearing, I'll even say to UFO experiencers in, in The thing is, Hey, you ever have anything flying around the house to go, Oh yeah, can I, can I?

And they go get their stuff and they start showing me all this weird stuff that's lying around the house until I got.

But anyway, so I was watching this lecture by Stanley Kripner and then the synchronicity came in.

This is only a couple days later.

So I'm, I'm watching it.

And then he says, I've had all these supports from this psychic in Brazil and somebody broke into my house and they stole them all.

So what I did to protect the next supports is I sent them to a university in Canada.

I sent them to the University of Manitoba.

Anyway, the University of Manitoba.

I said, the University of Manitoba for 37 years.

I go, holy cow, what's the chances of that?

I go, wow, I better look at this.

So I really got into this thing and I so I went to like the conference and then suddenly Paula Harris came and he says, oh, there's this guy from Great Britain, Tony, Tony Bince, he wants to talk to you.

And I said what?

He said he's got these photographs.

He wants to show his photographs.

I'm not really into photographs.

I'm not into, you know, slice in the sky.

And he says, oh, but he wants to talk.

He came all the way from Great Britain to see you say, OK, whatever.

So I get a hold of this guy, come up to my room, Tony, we go up to the, to the room and I says, OK, what's your photographs?

And he says, oh, I, he says, I can't tell you a story.

How I, how I got to, to know.

He says, I, I, I wanted an answer.

He said, I was standing out in my, my garden.

He says, and his feather fell down on my feet and, and I said, oh, should I go to the lecture?

And then another feather falls down on his foot.

And then he says, so he went to his wife and he says to his wife, he says, I got to go.

I got to see this Grant Cameron guy on consciousness because I think I can, I can talk to the, the saucers and these, these feathers are falling.

So then he, his wife says, are you crazy, Tony?

You're very sick.

You're very sick.

You got two young kids and you, you've never left Great Britain and you're, you're not going to go to Las Vegas.

Are you going to go to Nevada and talk to this guy?

Maybe you don't want to talk to you.

Are you crazy?

What are you doing?

And he and so he kept it to himself.

And then he, he, he got another sign.

And then his wife was thinking, oh, well, if this is really real, I'll test it.

So she, she drives into, she goes into London on the train.

So she says, oh, if, if this is real, I, I need a sign.

She goes in on the train.

She's going across the, the London Bridge.

She gets, she's coming off the other side and all of a sudden this feather falls down on right at her feet.

She goes, that's kind of weird.

So then she's going back on the train.

She says, OK, we want something better than that, not, not just a feather.

I want a whole bunch of feathers.

And she gets off of the train station and there's a Bush there and it has like 100, a hundred feathers in it.

And she goes, oh, she goes back and says, Tony, yeah, you can go to you can go to the United States.

And he goes, oh, what changed?

She just as soon as the kids go to bed, I'll tell you.

So she tells him the story.

So he comes all the way across the world to, to, to visit with me.

And he's showing me these photographs.

And suddenly all these people at the at the conference start seeing feathers.

There's the was the weirdest thing and even I won't get out.

There was about 14 incidents and then we were going, you're going to Tucson from Laughlin and it was about a 8 hour drive.

We go there and we were there a couple days and my assistant said, oh, let's go to, let's go to the church.

There's this church that's like 2-3 hundred, 200 years old or whatever.

Let's go to church.

And I got something to do, right.

So we go to the church and I'm wandering around the church and it's like whatever.

And suddenly there's a there's a little gift shop there.

And so we go into the gift shop and yeah, and, and I've got my hands behind my back.

I'm just sort of wandering around like most guys.

They're the wipers shopping.

And then I couldn't care less.

So she's looking all this stuff in the gift shop and, and I'm sitting there killing time and all of a sudden I see this big giant card like for send people card and it's like huge.

It's like, you know, twice the size of a piece of paper.

And I'm looking at this and go, well, that's kind of, and I just had a white feather on it and go, that's weird.

I'm not going to pay $3 for it.

So I'm, I get my camera out and I photograph this thing and I look and the one right below it has all these feathers on it was right.

It's like a, like a Indian, whatever they call it, the wish wish thing and has all these feathers on it.

Go that is weird.

There's another feather.

It's like I I photographed that and I take the camera down and I look up and my assistant desk is standing there holding a white feather and I go get out of here, sis.

Yeah, I was standing outside waiting for you.

Where are you?

I was standing outside and this feather fell right on my foot.

So this is the kind of thing that people experience is once you have the UFO experience or the crop circle experience or whatever, you start having these weird things like this poltergeist and and feathers and app ports and app ports are things that appear.

So the, the big ones are the, the physical mediums who can make these things appear in their mouths.

It's coming out of their eyes and stuff like that.

And people say, Oh, it's all a hoax or whatever.

But I watch it very closely because I, I get the impression that not in my own experiences, I've had to experience myself.

And it's actually fascinating where you, where you see the stuff.

And that's what I say to people.

So people will say, oh, the extra, extra stress, they're coming, extra trust.

I said, no, I don't think it's extra terrestrial.

I think it's, it's a higher vibrating frequency.

They're, they're at a higher level.

They can come down into our physical world, take on a, on a, on a figure and then go back into their world and people say, no, no, it's, it's, it's, it's physical.

And then I say, OK, one of the guys, there's a guy Stanford University, which is one of the big Ivy League colleges in the United States.

The guy who started was having seances.

His dunce is, is Leon Stanford.

Anyway, he, his son died at 14 years old.

Him and his wife started having seances.

He was one of the richest guys in the United States with the, with the railroads and stuff like that.

And then his brother was also into paranormal phenomena.

He was into his mediums and he was living in Australia, Stanford's brother, and he was having all sorts of stuff appearing and actually at the Stanford University, the the one that at the University of Manitoba went to see this Kripner's collection.

But there's one at Stanford University based on this guy who was like gave all the money for the psychology department for Stanford University for like 20 years because he wanted paranormal work done.

But of course they said it doesn't exist.

So leaves it for the psychology department.

Very, very rich guy.

And in, in their archives, they've got all the stuff that, that, that dropped out of the ceiling when they were doing the seances.

And the most interesting one that I say to people when they say, oh, it's extraterrestrial.

So how do you know it's extraterrestrial?

Stanford had a turtle, a live turtle fall out of the ceiling onto the onto, into the seance.

And he took the thing home and the thing lived in his garden and when it died, he took the shell and it went in his airport collection.

So I say, so if a turtle falls out of the ceiling and it's in a medium shape, is that an extraterrestrial?

No, it's not an extras.

It's coming from a higher dimension.

And that's what Tesla said.

Tesla said you will start to discover stuff once you start to look at vibration and energy.

That's what the, I believe this all is, that these beings are coming in from a higher vibrating, they're etheric beings.

And what I tell UFO experiences is you got to remember who you actually are.

You are not Michelle.

You are a puppet playing Michelle.

You are not you were just come in, you play the puppet, you go back, you're an etheric being.

You take on another puppet.

You play that puppet.

And because you believed you were King Henry the eighth in grade 12 Hollis High School does not mean you're not King Henry the eighth.

You are playing Canary and the 8th.

You are not King Henry the eighth.

And that's the what people got to realize is we are etheric beings.

So one of the stories I always tell when I talk about the the beings not being extraterrestrial is a woman.

I don't know if you've ever interviewed.

You should interview if you, if you can.

Her name is Sherri Wilde.

She wrote a book pretty well selling book called The Forgotten Promise, which is this whole idea that we come on on missions that her mission was to interact with these aliens.

And they said, have you forgotten the promise that you made?

And and I don't care, you know, and they they said you agreed to do this.

You agreed to do this whole thing.

We want you to write this book.

I'm not writing your damn book.

And they made her write the book.

And the book was pretty popular.

And now they're going to do a movie on her.

But at one point, she takes the book to the publisher.

When she, her daughter's try to stop her from publishing the book, they get a court injunction to stop her from publishing the book.

She's, you know, suicidal.

It's just that her life has fallen apart.

She takes it to the publisher, and the publisher looks and he says, hey, you're dealing with DAW.

Yeah.

DAW says he's from Andromeda.

Yeah, he's from Andromeda.

She says, well, you said he was a Grey.

You said he was a reptilian or he was a Grey.

She said, yeah, he's a grey, he's a Zeta.

And and then he said, well, that means he's from Zeta Reticula.

He's not from Andromeda.

Well, what's the deal?

What, what, Why?

Why is he saying that?

He's just, I don't know.

I'll ask him.

So next time this DA shows up, he says, so what's the deal here?

Are are are you, are you a Grey?

And, and and he says, well, yeah.

And he said, do you come from Zeta Reticula?

Where do you where you come from?

Are you actually an alien?

He said no, that would not best describe who I actually AM.

I'm an etheric being on a mission in the cosmos for the creator.

And that's where you're going to see this is all going to come down to spiritual stuff.

It's not going to be ET.

And he takes on.

And so she says, well, why do you come as this ugly looking Gray thing?

It's just ugly looking Gray thing.

What do you think?

You look ugly?

And she says, well, yeah, you scared the daylights out of me.

Every time you come, you wipe my memory so I don't remember.

And then you come and you scared the daylights out of me.

He said, Sherry, you ever look in the mirror?

She's she's got a big smile of big teeth.

And he and he said, you ever look in the mirror, Sherry?

And he says, yeah, why?

He said when you when you smile, we see your big teeth and we think you're going to eat us.

So that's the whole deal.

And so I always say to people when you have a being that's visiting you all the time, ask them, are you actually an extraterrestrial?

I actually interviewed, I don't know if you've interviewed the the two women who travelled a being in, in, in England, these dark small beings.

I they, they, they want.

I was dealing with them on what they were interacting with this being, these beings.

And then they said, oh, the beings want to talk to you.

I said, oh, great.

So I go there and this woman goes into trance.

And of course, the first question is, hey, so are you extraterrestrials?

And they said, they said, would you like us to be extraterrestrials?

We could do that.

If you want, we could even take you to our planet.

But no, we're not extraterrestrials.

We've always been here.

You're the visitor.

So I always say the experiences when you get the being, ask him if he's extraterrestrial.

I've never had anybody yet where the being says, yeah, I'm extraterrestrial.

They'll always say, well, no, not really.

And you wouldn't understand, you know, we don't explain.

You wouldn't understand what's going on.

And that's the whole thing.

There's all these levels.

When you start looking at the UFO phenomenon, it gets more complex and more complex and more complex and more complex.

And it's like the universe.

That's what God the intention is, is to make the universe more more dramatic and more enlightening and more smart and on and on and more intentions and more creations and, and it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

And that's, that's how it actually works.

So the mystery is not the UFO mystery, it's consciousness.

It's the nature of reality.

And once we start to understand that, we start to understand why these beings are here.

And that's the idea that that we are destroying the planet, that we are at this critical period where we got to grow up and we got to realize that oneness is the whole deal, that consciousness that we that it's not a material world and that things are non local, all these kind of things.

That's simple lessons that you'll see if you talk to experiences, what they're trying to teach us.

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Now let's step back into the shadows for more haunted history chronicles.

And again, you know, just kind of following on from what you just said.

And again, thinking about the book where, you know, you talk about how these ports occur without explanation, you know, like this trickster in the night type thing.

And given what you just said, you know, do you think that's the intent then that there's this intelligence that suggests that, you know, these are these random acts, these, these things that occur without explanation are there to make you aware, to make you see things, to make you notice, again, as you just said, make you more aware, more conscious of some of those messages that you were just talking about?

Yeah, that that's the whole thing.

They're doing weird stuff for a reason.

They're they're doing they're doing it to get your attention.

So when in a port appears, I remember the the one where Steve Mira, if you've interviewed him in Great Britain where he's, he's walking through his house and there's an American quarter right in the middle of the carpet and and it's a he sold it for a lot of money.

It was a very rare American coin, stuff like that.

Where or Charles Halt, who was the the big guy at at the rounders from forest.

He had an A port that fell.

He was giving a lecture and this coin fell and it rolled across the floor and hit his boot and he just put it in his pocket.

And then when he lecturers over and he said that experience changed my life.

And that's the whole thing.

If you even with with supports or whether it's UFOs, you can say to something like mine, when was your first sighting and the person knows when it was, what time of the day it was, who was there?

It was like that happened yesterday.

It was like you can't he drags you down the rabbit hole and you can't get out.

So that's just you talk about the trickster element.

That's what I call it, the theory of wow.

They just want you to go, wow, what's going on?

Like how do you make this crop circle?

And people say they hopes it, but how did they do it?

It's like, wow, it's just, and they made them more complex and more complex.

And, and when, when somebody thinks they've they've solved it, then they do something even bigger to counter that.

And that's what it is.

Or the Jesus circus where they're they're doing this stuff to get your attention.

And once people go down the rabbit hole, like a lot of people get divorced because they suddenly you have this UFO experience and that's all you talk about or you have a near death experience.

Like people don't realize they near death experience.

People 75 to 80% of those people after they've had their near death experience get divorced.

And that's because they all they can talk about is a near death experience.

They're obsessed with it and the, the other partner didn't have the experience.

So they're still back in the material world.

What's happened to you?

You're crazy.

You just keep talking about this stuff.

I'm not interested in this kind of stuff.

And you'll see, like a lot of people come to me and say, oh, it's terrible.

You know, I, I, I work on this stuff.

And my husband, he just, you know, he, he, he rolls his eyes.

He tells me not to talk about it or, or Sherry Wilde's daughters get an injunction and stop the book and all this kind of stuff.

And I say, get used to it.

That's the pattern.

And it's almost like the phenomena doesn't allow your partner to see it because they want you to stay grounded.

They want all this interference around you to keep you grounded.

Otherwise you just fly away.

And even there's Richards, his wife from The Rolling Stones.

She in an interview, she was talking to me about, she talked about her experience with, I think it was Keith Richards.

And anyway, they're on the coast of Brazil.

And, and I've heard this story a number of times where he sees this thing over the water and he calls her out and she goes out there and then he he, they're, they're watching.

And then he says, Oh, I forgot my glasses.

I got to go inside to get my glasses.

And as soon as he goes in the house, the whole thing starts the performance and she's just dragged down the rabbit hole.

She's just like unbelievable.

And then your kid gets dragged down the rabbit hole, stuff like that.

And yet he didn't see it.

And we'd have this over and over again that they almost like if you have the abduction thing where the person says they tried to wake my husband up, I couldn't wake him up.

He was like, he was totally dead.

I couldn't wake him up.

And then when I came back to the bed, then he he was awake and stuff like that.

And that's what they want.

They did this thing where they're doing this trickster thing where they're they're separating people.

They're creating this thing where skeptics can walk away from it.

Sometimes.

I mean, even think they sabotage the witnesses where they tell, they'll tell people a bunch of true stuff, then they'll tell them something really stupid that's not true.

So when they tell that, then they get discredited.

And so the story sort of gets out, which is the government's doing the same thing with Bob Lazar with stuff they're doing.

What they do is they give it to a bad witness.

They give the story to a bad witness like John Lear.

John Lear was this, you know, bigger than life character in Las Vegas who had flown 108 a 121 different planes.

He was just run for state senators.

Father created the Learjet.

He was really outspoken and stuff like that.

And what happened there is they gave the story to Bob, to John Lear, to Bob Lazar, who had become friends with John Lear.

And the idea was the Bob Lazar didn't have the background.

So they knew once he start talking, the story would blow up and, and everybody said, oh, Lazar's lying.

He lied about his back at his education and stuff like that.

And that's exactly what happened.

So when he did the interview with to go to Area 51, the first question in the second interview was what's your relationship to John Lehr and what do you think about it?

And then Lazar thinks he's got a, he's got a big mouth and he, you know, he's this sort of stuff.

And So what happened is he went on to the base.

He saw the flying saucers and he immediately went to John Lear and he said, John, John, I, I was there and it's real.

And he said, we mean, it's real.

He said there's ours.

He said it's theirs.

He said, what are you telling me for their, their, the house would be bugged.

They're they're we listening.

Get out of here.

Like go back to care.

If it's one go for six months, then come tell me what's going on.

And they went into the backyard and they started this whole thing.

But they knew he was going to go tell it to John Lear because when John Lear tells the story, John Lear was talking about underground bases.

And if you know, there's whatever is 95 civilizations living on the sun, it's all sets of bizarre stories.

And like, John Lear's crazy.

So you give it to John Lear.

John Lear tells a story of Area 51.

He told the story for six months.

Nobody listened to him.

He's like careless.

And what happened was KLSTV in Las Vegas was missing a guest.

And that's when they said, John, you know, that guy you said that was on Area 51, that physicist, we need a guest from that.

Bring him on the show.

Let's go.

And they backlit him.

And now it's not the crazy John Lear telling the story.

Now it's KLSTV who's won Emmy Awards and stuff like that, telling the story.

And suddenly the story went viral around the world.

Everybody believed it because it was being told by somebody else.

So the phenomena is doing the same thing.

They're they're giving it to people and but they're not giving enough that the people can prove it.

And same to the government.

If the government wanted to prove to you that UFOs existed, they'd stand up on the White House lawn and tell you what's going on.

They don't want it.

They're sort of telling you what's going on.

They're moving you down the road by putting stuff in X-Files, by putting stuff in movies, even the closest encounters, a third kind that's based on the Holloman Air Force Base story.

I know that for a fact.

And so that's what they're doing is you're gradually acclimatizing people, moving them up, and the phenomena is doing the same thing.

It's just gradually moving people up these steps by doing these weird things.

But the weird things keep changing.

So now you're doing orbs and this sort of stuff and, you know, the, even the stuff at, at Skinwalker Ranch where, you know, the, The thing is moving across the sky where the guy's watching it.

And the guy who owns the ranch and the thing just suddenly moves, you know, 100 feet instantaneously and he's gone.

Wow.

And he still tells us it's unbelievable.

And he just gets obsessed with the thing.

And that's what they're doing.

They're doing these these weird things and that's why DIA went to to the Skinwalker Ranch.

It didn't go to the Skinwalker Ranch because of UFOs, because the beginning, there was no UFOs at Skinwalker Ranch.

Jacqueline was saying, what are we doing here?

There's no UFOs here.

There's all these other weird things going on at the ranch.

There's no UFOs.

But what happened was they heard that, that, that there was the, the phenomena was talking in people's heads.

It was appearing, disappearing, all this kind of stuff.

And then of course, you're for the Defense Intelligence Agency.

You say, boy, if we could do that, boy, we're lucky.

Imagine the technology.

That's why they went to Skinwalker Ranch.

They're looking at the phenomena and what they're looking at is the phenomenology, not just the UFOs, the, the government and especially the intelligence agencies know that this is phenomenology.

It's it's ghosts, it's psychic phenomena.

People, a lot of experiences, 70% of experiences say they've said they've seen dead people.

Ron Johnson told me the beings took him into the spirit world where he was with his mother and his mother takes him into this building.

He said look like a little Mormon temple.

The guy's Mormon, this Mormon temple.

He said it was like 100 times the size.

Inside is the roadside, is it right?

There's 100 times the size and I'm thinking, are you in a, are you in a spirit world with your mother walking around?

Or are you in a UFO?

Because that's the story that's told that when you go in a UFO, it's 30 feet on the outside and it's the size of a football stadium inside.

So here you have this guy telling a spirit story in the spirit world and you see this crossover and you realize it's all phenomenology.

It's all tied together.

And they know that they know consciousness is the bottom line of this thing.

And that's why they watch the, the experiences very, very greatly because they've said there's even this high level intelligence guy said lights in the sky produce no usable information.

But there are experiencers and there may be aliens, however defined.

And that's the thing.

So they watch the experiencers.

The experiencers, they're watching, I think they got my, my, my computer tapped and I go, well, do you have the inventions or the aliens giving you invention, how the craft works and stuff?

Yeah.

Well, are you surprised?

They're in your computer share?

They're going to be watching you.

They don't know if you're the CIA.

The only way you're going to find information is to find it from people who have the information.

So I'm watching them what they've got and they're watching the experiences, what the experiencers are saying.

And they're trying to develop their weapons.

And I'm trying to get the message of what the the aliens want people to know.

One of the really fascinating things that you kind of.

Talked about within that, that really resonates with me, especially given that, you know, it's similar conversations to conversations I've had with other guests like Steve Marra, for example, and John Fraser here in the United Kingdom who is part of the Society for Psychical Research, who wrote a book called One Big Paranormal Box of Tricks.

You know, you're kind of talking about there this common thread between these seemingly different phenomena, UFOs, mediumship, ghosts, poltergeist activity, things moving around, messages, all of these various different things and what you're seeing are the common thread between them.

And, and like I was just saying, you know, these are conversations like I've had with other people who again, are referencing the, the similarities between them and raising the same question of is this phenomena distinct and unique in the way that we all seem to think it is that it's isolated, that they're not connected Or are they in fact all just coming from a same singular source?

Isn't not the same kind of phenomena just being manifested in a different way?

Like you said, it's, it's changing, it's presenting itself in a different, in a different way.

And of course, out of that then does lend itself and kind of naturally progress into that question of, well, what is it then that is creating that phenomena?

And, and that's a really interesting conversation.

I think when you start to not pigeonhole these different experiences into discreet boxes, but start to see the wider picture of all of this phenomena, you know, this phenomena as you were just kind of, you know, talking about just there.

It's a it's a fascinating conversation, and it's one I can give you 2 other weird examples.

That show, this one was, I mean, Academy relations.

So I was friends with Linda Howe and the question, the question we've sort of learned, I think cattle relations show that they're all downwind and downstream from nuclear power activities.

That was one thing.

But The thing is, why would they do this to cattle?

Why would they, for example, take a cow, They got it on the craft.

They do the incisions, they do whatever and then they drop it back.

You drive, you fly back into the war zone and you drop it in the 100 feet up into the farmer's front yard.

So I was talking to Linda one time and I said, hey, Linda, you don't want to take every single drop of blood out of the cow.

Says no Why?

I said because if you didn't, you wouldn't go investigate.

And that's the whole point.

They want it to be weird.

They want everybody they want, they do, they cut their eye out.

They do all this sort of incision stuff, just horrible stuff.

And because they they want everybody to go with a camera.

They want everybody to go, what is going on here?

And that's what's happened.

It's just like it was pandemonium.

People are going like all this sort of stuff.

Or they would do something like they would take the heart out of a cow without an incision.

So why you're doing that kind of stuff?

That is the ultimate wow experience where, where people are going.

How did they get the heart out of the cow without indecision?

And, and, and it drags you in and it's just showing you the power that they have and, and the, the fact that they, they want this wow effect where they, they want you to, to never forget this.

And they want everybody to bring a camera.

They want everybody to talk about, because when we start to talk about stuff, we, you can be against it for it or whatever.

The more we talk about it, the more the consciousness rises.

And then it becomes like gay marriage, you say, when did it become legal for gay marriage for people?

I don't know, 10 years ago, 15, I don't remember.

It's like it just sort of happens.

And that's what's happening here is the consciousness just will slowly change.

The other thing they example I was pointing out almost it's in the the idea ports is I say, OK, UFO flies 100,000 light years from a different planet.

It gets here and pieces start falling off it.

Come on, give me a break.

They're not falling off it.

They're dropping it and they see you can almost see it like people got the craft, the piece and they're they got it and you know, spending thousands of dollars to analyze and stuff and the and the the beings, whoever they are, are laughing.

It's like, Can you believe it?

Like look at the look at the look on that guy's face.

He's just.

Even the the one.

They had the uba tuba piece, the uba tuba pieces, they had the same craft.

And one of the pieces had the isotopes normal and the other one had the isotopes all messed up.

And then the aliens, they, they got to be laughing that like, wow, man, look at this.

And what they're doing is they're creating this sort of thing.

And I said to Hal, put off, who's working on this on the support thing.

They had all these pieces of metal and, and no two pieces are same.

No2 UFOs are the same.

No2.

I maintain No2 Grays are the same.

Everything is, is individual.

So they they, they're dropping the stuff.

So I went to Hal put off and said, Hal, come on, Hell, you know, this is up ports.

They're not this is not pieces falling off of flying saucer because everybody believes, oh, I've got this piece of flying saucer.

I'm going to build flying saucer.

Now.

It's like, give your head a shake.

You're not going to build anything.

You're being set up.

And and so I said to hell, come on, Hell, you know, you had the experience with your gallery.

You know, this is up ports and what happened with him?

It's the same thing in the very beginning when they're doing a remote viewing.

They were there and they had gone to to lunch with Uri Geller and Uri Geller's eating ice cream.

And all of a sudden he cuts his lip and he goes, wow, it's in here.

And he bites down and this pin goes through this thing goes through his lip and his lip is bleeding and he pulls it out and hell put off is there and Edgar Mitchell is 6 man to walk on the moon is sitting there.

And Edgar Mitchell goes, that's my flight pin.

I lost that two years ago in in Houston.

What are you doing with my flight pin?

He takes the flight pin and, and, and they go, this is kind of weird.

And they go back to the lab and they're in the lab and Yuri Geller.

So you can't blame Yuri Geller for this.

Yuri Geller is in another room.

Hell put off and and Edgar Mitchell are standing there and all of a sudden they hit a stink behind note behind and the back half of the flight pin is on the floor.

And that's the kind of weird stuff they do.

And that's what the import stuff is doing.

They're just every piece is different.

They're just dropping them and and they're all made out of different stuff.

And they have these weird things with the isotopes are messed up and stuff like that.

And all they want is all the people to go, something's going on here, something's going on.

And eventually as you keep going, people will say, well, maybe they're dropping them.

Maybe this is, is, you can see how it's being built or something like that.

But people gradually are realizing that this paranormal phenomena stuff is real.

And the vast majority of the, the, the people in the country are starting to agree with this.

Then you make the headway and then they can talk to you, but they're not going to talk.

Even 1 alien said, and I'm just trying to find the, the I couldn't, I haven't been able to source it, but said years ago, do not go down the technology route.

It's a trap.

And that's what I think is the difference between the government disclosure, which is all run by the military.

We need weapons.

We need to, you know, find a way to kill civilians faster and, you know, more direct and with, you know, less money and all this kind of stuff.

And, and we'll get, you know, I'll become a two star general and I'll have lots of money and have a house on the hill and all this kind of stuff.

That's just all in the United States is all about money, but the, the, the government, the, the UFO disclosure is this this idea of why are they actually here?

Why are they trying to get our attention?

Why are they doing these these weird things?

And once they do, people will start to listen because right now it's a very bad situation.

And I pointed out, even though I know the people and they probably very upset with me, I said, you've got these telepathic kids who are 100% telepathic.

We can now prove without a doubt that telepathy is a real thing and that makes the world non local.

That proves the materialistic paradigm is completely wrong.

And I said, and at the same time at the Seoul conference, you feel the Seoul conferences, the big conference in the United States where all the big shots in ufology go and they they talk.

It's been banned.

You're not allowed to talk about the woo.

And the whole thing is we don't want to be associated with Whitley Strieber.

We don't want to be associated with Grant Cameron because they're woo people.

They're people who are talking about consciousness.

We can't go there.

And then you say, well, are you against consciousness?

No.

We know consciousness is the basis of this thing, but we can't go there.

What we need to do first is convince people that there's nuts and bolts, that there's lying sauces.

Then we'll go to the consciousness thing in the woo stuff.

But the problem is that as long as you do the nuts and bolts, you're never going to discover what's going on because it's not nuts and bolts you've got you're doing the same thing you did back in 19470.

Let's get a photograph.

Let's talk to the witness.

Let's, you know, plot them.

Where did they happen?

Are they near different sulfur?

Are they near iron?

What's going on?

And you do this thing, we've done this for 80 years.

And if you cut out the consciousness from all UFO conferences or you'll see it in major documentaries, foxes, documentary, stuff like that, there is no contacting stuff.

There is no experience or stuff because everybody is afraid of being laughed at.

They're still in this whole idea that people are going to look down on us.

We can't go there even though we know it's real.

And and they go back to doing the same thing.

And the whole idea is the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and believing you're going to come to a different solution as long as you keep doing the same things you did in 1947.

Look at lights in the sky.

Count the lights in the sky, count the green ones, the red ones, the pass ones, the slow ones and talk to the the experiencer.

And where did you live?

And is there a pattern on the on the ground?

You're never we've done this for 80 years.

We haven't got an answer yet.

You got to give it up.

You're like a somebody looking for their golf ball in a, in a, in a, in a forest outside the thing.

It's a time to take a drop.

It's time to take a penalty, get another golf ball, put it back on, forget about looking in the in the Bush anymore.

Put it on the thing, take a one stroke penalty and get back on and try to put the ball in the hole.

We're we're lost.

We're just doing all this stuff, the same thing we did before and then we're going to waste another 80 years if we go down this road.

We got to stop the stuff of the lights in the sky.

And then that's a bolts that says yes, something is interacting with us.

Because that was a conclusion that helped put off Kit Green from the CIA.

And Jack Ballet came up with the 1980s and it's called the core story.

They said, what do we know for sure?

There's lots of garbage running around the UFO community.

They're in a Denny's restaurant and they had this meeting and they said, what do you know for sure?

And the conclusion that came to us, we are being interacted by some sort of intelligence.

We've got hardware and and stuff like that and we aren't making any progress on it.

That's the core story.

That's the bottom line.

They're not, they're not getting anywhere with the craft.

They're missing the main component.

And everybody's playing this little game of UFO settings because it's good.

It's good on, on, on your clicks.

You get a lot of clicks and you can get somebody who says, you know, I saw this sighting and this happened and whatever and tell like a ghost story and people love it and you collect these stories.

But in the end, those, those things really aren't, aren't getting you anywhere.

They're, they're just stories that people are telling and you're, you're, you're, you're missing the, the main component of, of what it is.

And yet at the same time, consciousness is rising.

People know what area 51 is.

People know UFOs is people know what near death experience.

People know what the tunnel is in the near earth experience.

And you don't realize that, that the consciousness is rising, that that people and the young generation, you say, oh, do you believe there's extraterrestrials coming here?

Oh, absolutely, for sure.

And eventually we'll get them to understand that it's not really extraterrestrials.

It's people coming from a higher vibration.

And people even talk about this when you're around the being, you can't be around the being because he's vibrating.

There's a vibration around this being so they're they're lowering their vibration to come into this physical world.

They can come in they and they can put on a suit.

They can put a it's with what da said we we can put on whatever we want.

We use a Gray because it's very functional or another experience you said from Israel.

Yoshi Ronan said he was told by the being, when we come into your world, we take out a body to do our work.

We don't need to take on a body.

You can do the same thing.

You just don't know it.

And just coming back to something that you you spoke.

Of just a moment ago, which again, I think is fascinating and worth just diving it a little bit deeper into in terms of explaining what you meant and, you know, obviously referring back to your research with your book, was this reference that you made to, you know, the metals with these bizarre isotopic ratios?

You know, do you want to just explain the last that a little bit more because it's fascinating and people listening may may have gone over their heads.

Do you want to just explain that a little bit further in terms of the materials and and the significance of that, of that change of that ratio that I was just referring to there.

So this is the idea that I think it.

Was magnesium, It was the UBA tuba piece from I think it was Brazil.

It was 1957 or something.

This isn't again, it's the same thing.

It's like the UFOs flying along and all of a sudden it explodes.

All these pieces go all over the place and it's like, well, what are these aliens like?

Can't they fly or craft?

And the idea now, the Bob Bigelow Bob, which I maintain is that they're seeding this stuff.

They're crashing on purpose.

In fact, the one, the Arizona 1952 crash, Eric Walker told us at one point, he said they were talking about the beings we took out the bodies at Roswell.

And he said, why do you know they were dead?

How do you know they didn't get up and walk away?

You're assuming a lot of stuff, and most of what you're assuming is wrong.

I was just laughing and, and now the story is that the Arizona craft 1952, the beings left the craft and they just walked away and left this intact craft there.

And so this stuff is being gifted to us.

That's part of the thing.

So they're gifting this stuff, but the weird part is so they do, they do the weird thing where they change the isotopes.

So every piece of metal has certain isotopes and I think it was magnesium.

So the one piece, all the isotopes were normal.

The other one, they were double or triple or they were way out of whack.

And The thing is that they say, yeah, we could probably do that, but it would take millions of dollars to do that.

Why would anybody change the isotopes in this in this metal?

So this is the whole deal that it's, it's something would take a lot of money and a lot of time to do.

Or in the pieces where they layer them, where they see they're layered atom by atom.

And the one was magnesium and the, the, the layer these 83 layers of, of, of stuff, magnesium and bismuth, I think it was.

And but these two pieces don't bind together.

They normally don't bind together, but they're all bound together as I'm like, look at this, we bound them together and you got 8083 levels or whatever the levels was.

And everybody looks at it.

Oh yeah, wow.

Just, you know, gathering the stuff.

And then the house sells up to $35,000 to the, the, to the Starters Academy and stuff like that.

Because people want this and they, they're doing all this analysis and you get all the analysis you want.

It's just going to say, yeah, this is a weird piece of metal.

Same as you can go on a crop circle and see the where it's woven or where the the nodes are are exploded and stuff like that.

And you got to say, yeah, that's pretty weird.

I mean, yeah, we could maybe probably do that.

That's that's pretty weird.

And that that's what they're what they're doing with this sort of stuff is it's not just a piece of metal.

We had the one that we talked about in the book that came.

We found it in James McDonald's files.

So James McDonald was a big astrophysicist.

No, he was.

He was a professor in the 1960s from University of Arizona.

We were there looking at his massive collection of files.

Just as we're finishing, my assistant said, hey, look at this.

And there was this picture of it looked like a spike and it was made out of nickel and it had these, the end of it had had bubbles on it like a like a nail that was bubbles on, on the end of this thing.

And when they did one of the analysis, they cut off the very end of the spike and they saw that there was a core of copper in there.

So you'd say, well, why would you put a core of copper in this thing?

This was 1939.

So you're not going to say, well, we built this in World War 2 or whatever it came in it.

It was in a field in Illinois and a farmer sitting there and this thing came, it looked like a, like a meteorite coming out of the sky and it embedded itself into the, the garden.

And then he saw it and the they gained the idea is they wait till someone's looking at it.

And then he, he was going to get it was all hot.

And that's what people describe when it's on the ground, it's very hot, whereas meteorites aren't, aren't hot at all when they hit the ground.

And, and so he waited for it to cool down and they took a knife and he pulled it out and he didn't know what to do with it.

So in the 1960s, he gives it to his daughter, lives in Tucson and, and, and NASA has a, a lab there because they're doing that going to the moon and stuff like that.

So they analyze it and they say, we have no idea.

We have no idea.

And, and they send it to the Nickel Company of America.

And all they concluded was was 99% pure nickel, which at that time in 1939, nobody had.

And they said, furthermore, nobody has anything 99% nickel in the sky.

And so they just said that's all we can tell you, just total mystery.

And that's what they want, just total mystery where every sort of throws their hands up.

So every single phenomenon, what you'll see is that there's no answers to any phenomena, whether it's Ouija boards or mediumship or you can never sort of prove it.

It's it's always one step beyond.

And that's what the phenomena is doing.

It's it's showing you this stuff, but it's not provable.

So it's it's doing something else, right?

Because they want to prove it.

They would just prove it.

And but all this kind of stuff, all it's like, yeah, we can sort of get it.

And the skeptic says, oh, it could have been this, could have been that.

And that that's the whole thing is it's always on the very edge that the phenomena is dragging us.

It's dragging us down the field towards disclosure.

And, and the metals is a big part because that's what we're in now.

We're in the space age.

So now you have flying saucers coming.

Before it was elves and fairies and stuff like that.

And they just changed the phenomena.

And actually Barbra Streisand's stung is a is an experiencer and I had a lot of contact with him when he first had his experience.

And he said to the phenomena, he said, well, you know, if you're an extraterrestrial, he said, OK, give me something.

He's driving in his car.

Give me something in my head that I don't already know.

And they said biocentrics and he go bio centrics.

What's that?

It's because how many Googles this thing, it's got to do with consciousness.

It's got to do with the idea that biology is basic to the universe and that that consciousness is primary and all this kind of stuff.

And the guy that, that that discovered it was a guy named Robert Lanza.

So he phones up to Robert Lanza.

He says, I want to do a documentary in Hollywood on this consciousness thing.

And I, you know, it tells me the experience, you know, these, it saw the ship and you know, all the stuff's in my house, orbs flying around my house and stuff like that.

And, and then Lanza says, well, you know, I'm a, I'm a fairly prominent guy.

I really can't get involved with this.

He said, but I give him my assistant's name, whatever you want, he'll give to you.

And then he says, Azadin, he says, and just to let you know, I had some of those experiences too.

So, so you start to realize, like you start looking at all the, the inventions or these songs and you say, where'd the song come from?

And you realize, no, the guy didn't figure it out.

He was sitting on a park bench and it popped into his head.

He started realizing that you're we're getting help for this thing from the other side, through inventions, through our higher selves, whatever.

And it's this, it's this world where the phenomena is, is doing this sort of a dance.

I keep calling the Jesus circus because that's the same thing I said, you know, if Jesus hadn't walked on water, fed 5000 people, raised Lazarus from the dead, you never had heard of the guy.

The reason you know about them is because of all the weird stuff.

And that's the same thing here.

They, they're making it more and more prominent.

Everybody's talking about it.

That's what they want.

They don't really want people to figure it out.

They want people to talk about it.

And eventually this consciousness thing comes up that people like me and Colin Andrews and a lot of people are not talking about.

In fact, it's now been generated James Caskey, who ran the OSAP program, which is the, the $22 million program that wrote all the reports.

He actually says, we now know that, that, that the, the technology is a combination of physical and mental phenomena is exactly what I say in the, in the, the, the book with the, the people flying the craft.

It's, it's conscious.

It's, it's, it's alive, it's nuts and bolts and stuff.

It's alive.

And the, the idea where you got.

So I say to people, and if you want to know what AI looks like, why would you not talk to somebody slow in the craft?

That's AI in 5000 years, 10,000 years, you can see what it's going to look like.

And the main thing that's different from our AI, our AI is a bunch of rocks.

Like we're, we're putting together circuits and we believe that these circuits, you get enough circuits and then suddenly the thing's going to go, Oh, I'm Grant and I'm consciousness is going to pop out.

Other thing that's not going to happen it has to have biology and if you talk to Steve Mara next time ask him about the biology boards and he already talked.

He said he worked on these many years ago computer boards that are made out of biological material.

That's the whole thing DNA biology can store it was even listening yesterday about the human cell creates 11,000 proteins per second you know and the the amount of computing power that the DNA and all this kind of stuff happens.

It's unbelievable the the power but you need biology and so the so that's where people talk about the craft is live.

One woman was even talking to it.

She said I felt sorry for you and he said no, this is my job.

Don't worry about this and I'm in contact with all the other crafts in the in the solar system and stuff like that.

She's actually talking to this to this sort of power source or whatever it was.

So that's what you see is is this phenomena is trying to trying to make this miracle stuff where get everybody's attention and eventually people like me start coming across and saying that's just the show that's just the Jesus here's the message and more and more people are picking up on the message they're realizing this idea that consciousness.

Is primary.

And the world.

Is not the way you think it is and as I said the main thing I think is going to change everything and if you haven't I don't know if you really get this is very popular.

It's the biggest podcast there is now is the telepathy tapes.

This is this idea with the with the non verbal autistics for the left brain is shut down.

Is, is the verbal on left brain is completely shut down.

And in terms of voice, these kids are 100% telepathic and they're precognitive and they're they're able to talk to dead people and they're able to make, you know, all this kind of stuff and they can be provable.

That is major.

That is the biggest story I've seen in 50 years.

The fact that telepathy has been is going to be proved and that will mean that there's non local, the mind can actually move from one place to another.

It can guess and stuff like that.

Everything changes because the, the, the material world from people who've got PhDs from MIT, people always say, Oh, the, the religious people are going to panic when, when this, when this, when it comes out, it's not going to be the religious people are going to say, oh, that's great.

You know, we're converting to God or whatever.

And it's not the religious people, it's the scientist.

It's the people who believe in the secular material world.

That's just all there is.

We're just biological robots in a random, meaningless universe.

Those are the people who are going to be fighting over the Sinai pills.

I went to, I went to Harvard, I went to MITI, went to Stanford, and I spent 50,000 years on $50,000 on tuition.

And you're telling me that it's all wrong, that I'm nothing I believe is right?

Well, yeah, sort of.

And that's like trying to talk to someone who's been raised in religion.

You're not going to once, I think Einstein said.

You spend from your birth to 25 years old inventing, creating, and once you're 25 years old, you spend the rest of your life defending what you did.

So the old people you're not going to against, like Max playing.

It happens one funeral at a time.

So that's what's happening is these ideas are flowing up and the young generation are going to start working on it and they're they're going to start creating the bio boards and this consciousness thing is going to people are going to start using it and proving it and that the whole material world falls apart.

Then you got to say, how does the world actually work?

And that's when you realize it's all this vibratory stuff.

It's just vibrations and these beings are just at a higher vibratory level and that we can go there as well.

But you've got to get your mind in order in order to get there.

You got to have love as the basis of the universe.

You got to understand that it's all one you got to have unconditional forgiveness and you got to go to that total right brained female brain.

And once you, you get that, then you can vibrate up this idea that you can, you can ascend to, to their level and they're just at a different level.

They come down and they've even asked like the Chandlers, like, why do you do this?

And they say, well, that's what we do and we're altruistic.

We're the only species in the universe that isn't altruistic.

Where it's me because it's the left brain running thing.

It's me, it's my, it's, it's my stuff.

And it's my, I want more toys, I want this and stuff like that.

If you look at aliens, aliens are very autistic.

They're very right brained.

They don't have clothes, they don't have crystal chandeliers, they don't have leather furniture.

They don't have anything.

They're living in this world where they're they're very right brain where it's all about message and stuff like that.

They're not into technology, not into all that, that kind of stuff.

They're very right brained.

And that's where the shift is going to take place.

And that telepathy thing will take us because it's the right brain that that's doing the telepathy.

Once you can shut that left brain down.

And that's why I wrote contact modalities, all the modalities of people, 70 different modalities that people use to get in the field.

And once you're in the field, you can, you can get the answer to the questions that that you've got and hopefully be able to bring them back.

And, and that's where a lot of the inventions, a lot of the songs came from.

And, and that's why I wrote the book inspired.

You'd be absolutely floored.

I had 13 Nobel Prizes where people think, oh, the guy was smart.

No, sitting there and it popped in his head.

Anyway, that's a neat idea.

And, and that's where it came from.

But most scientists won't talk about it.

Most inventors, because they don't want to give up the patent they they invented, they get the patent, they get the money.

So a lot of them will keep it quiet where the invention actually came from.

But more and more of them are coming public now and say, yeah, that's what happened to me too.

It it came to me.

It was, it was actually given to me.

Even Michael Jackson, famous singer said he was embarrassed to put his name on the record label because he didn't, he didn't, he didn't actually write the songs.

He just pulled them out of the out of the ether or the field or whatever it is that's people got to realize you're an etheric being.

You're here for a short time, you're playing a puppet.

And when you go back, you're going to you're going to get, you're going to get the answer to everything.

Once you go back in the field, you're, Oh yeah, now it's and everybody's going to know what's going on.

And then you go through the river forgetfulness, you come back in to learn different lessons or whatever.

But when you're dead, you go into that field and you will know the answer to everything.

You'll understand how it all works.

And according to the people Michael Newton research, the people who died and went in front of the council at 7000, they all say the same thing because the council asks you only one question when you die.

They ask you, how did it work out?

Because you planned it.

You can't blame Hillary Clinton, the mother-in-law, the dog ate the Homer.

You planned it how to work out.

And Michael Newton says every single person said the same thing.

I could have done better.

I forgot to do this.

I was going to do this.

I was going to do this.

And that's the whole process.

We're coming into that field.

These people are up at this this high level.

That's why you see so many dead people on board ships that people are just floored and they're angry.

Usually they're angry like they tried to twist my mind.

They put my my wise when he was there and I said he had a birthmark on his back.

I want to see the birthmark.

And they pull the shit up.

There's a birthmark screen.

I can't believe it, but she was angry that they brought her husband and he's alive or bring somebody'd dog on there.

That your your dog that died before and that that's the kind of stuff they're in.

You're in a different world.

You're in this world where it's not mature world.

It's this non local world where everything is happening where or Bashar says we come into your dreams because now you're in our world and you'll get a lot of people say I wasn't abducted.

It was in my dream.

That was just in my dreams.

Yeah, that's what to do.

Because you're at that point where you're in the sleep state.

Your left brain goes to sleep.

Your the left brain shuts down and your right brain starts to run the show.

And the right brain is able to go into lucid dreams or dreams or whatever.

And that's when your higher self will give you symbols because the right brain is is not voice, it's symbols, It's, it's, it's feelings, it's symbols, it's emotions.

That's why your dreams, it's all these weird symbols and stuff and your higher self is giving you messages.

So that's the basic thing.

It's all going to come down.

It's all going to be spiritual.

And that's what I say.

The, the people who are in the materialistic paradigm are really going to have a hard time with this because that's it's all going to be spiritual.

Before I used to say it's going to be a lot more spiritual than you think.

I think it's all spiritual.

And that's what it comes down to.

Why did we come into the world?

What is the, why are we here?

What is the world all about?

Why?

Where did we come from and where are we going?

And then you start to realize it's not about how many toys I get in this 80 years I'm here.

What happened before?

And you start to realize I've always been here.

I'm always going to be here.

And we're going through this process.

And when you talk to people, especially talk to experiences, and once you experience, you say, oh, when's the first time you saw the being?

Oh, Chris Betzel, oh, they were with me before I was born.

And then the guy regressing, this is like in your last lifetime.

And he says, yeah, if the alien is in your last lifetime, there's something else going on here.

And it's it's not nuts and bolts, it's not weapons, it's not toys and stuff like that.

This is a real spiritual type of thing that's going on.

But it's going to is the aliens, There's no right and wrong so that they're just going to keep doing these weird things and the consciousness will continue to rise.

And eventually everybody's going to go, oh, yeah, I knew that already.

Even now, people say, you know, when the New York Times article came out, I'd written an article before the New York Times came out.

And I said, oh, you know, people going to jump off bridges.

I'm stuck where it's going to meltdown, stuff like that.

And what happened when the New York Times came out with the article and said, oh, yeah, the government is investigating UFOs?

Nothing, Everybody.

Yeah, I knew that already.

What's the big deal?

And people say we're not this catastrophic disclosure.

What do you mean cat?

What do you mean catastrophic disorder?

Oh, they're going to release it.

There's bodies and crafts and release all that.

Well, people are just going to go.

I guarantee people go, yeah, I heard about that for years.

Yeah, what's the big deal?

I heard about that before.

We've been acclimatized.

Nothing's going to shock people.

It's the it's the materialistic paradigm.

People who have their entire career based upon the fact that there is no God, there is no spirit, there is no telepathy, there is no paranormal phenomena, There are no UFOs.

And don't tell me I'm an expert.

Those are the people are going to have a real tough time when this telepathy thing gets confirmed, which will be however that long it takes them to do the experiment.

But that was that's a game changer for me.

In 50 years, that's the biggest thing I've seen is these non verbal autistic children who are 100% telepathic do not make any mistakes whatsoever.

So what's next for you then?

Any interesting research that you're working on?

Any future projects that you're looking forward to?

Anything exciting coming up that you'd like to share with anybody listening at the moment?

Well, I've got 5 disclosure books.

The. 4th book is coming out called landing the plane beyond managing Magic.

I call I called these disclosure books managing magic because what it is and the CIA I think actually took very great interest in this because it's not managing UFOs, it's managing magic.

And the idea is you got to realize it's more than UFOs.

So the idea was managing magic and how the government is is leaking stuff.

Then the book that is coming out in the next once I've finished the my last edit really couple of weeks, it's called Beyond Managing Magic, landing the plane.

And I would get frustrated as you and a lot of researchers get frustrated and it's like I'm not getting anywhere here.

It's just I don't know if I should keep doing this since you sort of get down on the whole thing.

And the message came to me clear as could be.

Grant, don't worry about it.

We know how to land the plane.

And I went, well, I do exactly what they're talking about.

And the whole deal is they're running the show.

That's what Jim Semivan said.

He was asked one time who's running the show and the guy wanted to know who the government's running the show, who's running the show?

And he said they are, they're running the show and they're they're controlling the disclosure.

And that's the whole thing.

They said, don't worry, we know how to land the plane.

They've probably done it on 1000 planets before.

They know exactly what they're doing, how to move us from consciousness of materialism to the the understanding that love is the basis of the universe and everything is 1 and we're all connected and all this kind of stuff.

And so I'm that's the ones coming out.

And then the one I'm going to do a really controversial book.

This is the one where I say the case for no government disclosure, where I say, no, you don't need more weapons.

We don't need government disclosure.

We need them to people to release, not other aliens and how do the crafts fly and stuff like that.

We need to release the message of what the aliens are saying.

This one, this message destroying the universal, That's what we need to disclose.

So I'm working on that and I'm also trying, I think there maybe I'll give you a little carrot here that I think there may be an interview with a guy I actually responded to this morning.

He said, well, debate is good.

And this is a very maybe the highest level guy.

The guy runs all the show.

He said, well, debate is good If you, if you got really questions, cuz I said, you know, you're always putting people down.

This guy's, this guy's garbage, this guy's stupid, this guy's insane or whatever.

Hey, why don't you tell us what's going on?

Then we would stop guessing.

You're, you're blaming us, but we're guessing because nobody's telling us what's going on.

I mean, you tell us what's going on.

And he said, well, debate is good.

Make a list of questions.

And I said, well, I'll leave that too.

I called the early bird.

I won't give you the old story, the early bird and this guy may do an interview in March.

So we'll see if it does.

I I'm hopeful.

And the, The thing is that that once when, when you're talking to people in the government, people say I was talking to this guy in the government.

He gave me the the secret.

He told me how big this thing.

And it's like, no, not him, that guy be in jail.

You, you report him to the FBI, report him.

He's leaking classified material.

You can't leak classify material.

But if the guy's retired and that's what you do, you go to watch these people who are retired, those are the people start talking because they no longer are what's called on duty once they're when they're on duty, because this guy said, OK, give me these questions, you're on duty, I can't talk to you.

I'm not going to believe anything you say as long as you're on duty.

Because he's he has to answer for the government.

He can't release if he's got the keys, if he's got the, the, the, the he calls himself the gatekeeper.

He's got the keys to the, to all the classified information.

He's not going to tell you.

One time they told me he's coming to an event I was going to be at.

He said, he's going to tell you something.

He's not going to tell me anything.

Why would he tell me something?

He's all classified.

And, and then I said, and I'm, I'm from Canada.

The guys in the United States are going to tell a Canadian what's going on.

French, do your head shake.

He's not going to tell me anything.

And so this is where we are.

I'm, I'm hoping that we may have an actual on camera interview where some of these questions will be answered because that's why I was told this morning.

You make a list of questions and we'll debate is good and we'll so OK.

But I said we'll we'll wait till you're off duty before we do that because right now I don't believe anything you say.

And so for anybody listening to what's coming.

Ahead for you, where's the the best place to follow and keep on top of what you're up to and listen to your podcast where some of this interview may take place.

OK, my my podcast is called.

Paranormal UFO Consciousness Podcast.

I don't do as many as I did, but I did get the first interview with Kai Dickens, who's the girl with the the telepathy that that brought it.

That was discovered by a girl by the name of Diane Hennessy Powell, APHD psychologist.

She's the one that discovered these children were telepathic.

And then Kai made it very popular and made this very popular.

They're doing a documentary.

So that is on my, my, my best place to watch events, I guess is, is the podcast.

I did the interview with her and that's also on my YouTube channel.

A White House UFO is my YouTube channel.

I, I do the interview with her and with that and also with, with Diane Hennessy Powell.

But if you want to watch this interaction I'm doing with this high level intelligence guy, you go to my Facebook.

It's the presidential UFO Facebook and you'll go to, you got to go into the comments and you'll see I'm the only person he interacts with on the Internet.

He doesn't interact with anybody else, which may mean I'm over the target.

I'm getting pretty close.

So he's, you know, putting down stuff, I'm saying stuff like that.

And that's my Facebook and on Twitter.

I'm also on Twitter and I post everything and that's on Twitter.

I paste it, post on Facebook.

But the Facebook 1 is where he's interacting.

So people might want to watch that interaction.

And I'm going to be challenging because Donald Trump in on Tuesday is claiming there's going to be this report on the drones.

So you'll see.

If you go to my Facebook on Tuesday, you'll see me interacting with this high level official and saying, OK, he's got a hand in the homework.

Where's his homework?

Come on, let's see the report.

And it's going to start this whole event where they're claiming they're going to do disclosure.

So I'm going to be on Facebook and I've got a big audience.

So I'm going to be pushing this issue starting next Tuesday.

But those are my my main places is the Facebook presidential UFO, the Grant Cameron Twitter and the UFO YouTube channel and the Paranormal UFO consciousness podcast where I've done maybe 300 podcasts.

I've interviewed a lot of interesting experiencers and people who I've had a lot of interaction.

I'm more interested in the people who've had the experiences because that's what I say.

You can't learn anything by watching lights in the sky.

You've got to interact with the people who are talking to the intelligence.

You have no other choice.

That's the closest you can get.

You're not going to learn anything by watching a light fly around in the sky.

And we've touched upon.

Several of the the books that you've written, do you want to just remind people of some of the titles of the books and the best place where they can grab a copy if they're interested?

I guess you could put my name and it's all.

Connected books and it'll take you to a site.

It's all, it's all connected as a publishing company that my assistant and I ran.

And we're limited by time.

But we, what we do is we find somebody with a really good story and we'd say you've written that down.

And they go, no, I didn't write it down.

And I think you should write it down.

And this is, this is the biggest story that's ever going to happen in the history of the world.

And you, because now you can publish a book for $5 and it'll talk $5 to ship to you and you can put it on the counter and never sell it and just have it on the counter.

And when you die, your kid will say, what's this book here?

Oh, cool.

And read your story because your kids aren't going to listen to you right now, but to record your story because 500 years from now, everybody's going to think we lived at the time of Jesus.

So I started this publishing company called It's All Connected.

And we would show people how to publish books.

And a lot of them had to sort of take them by the hand.

And it was taking too much time.

We were my my system is editing the book and stuff like that.

We weren't charging any for it.

So now we sort of show people what we try to push people, but some of those books are on there and they turn out some of the people that we had turned out to be best sellers, these books that they had.

But that's that's where my books are.

And the books that I, I, I'm most interested in conscious is what?

So I wrote a book called inspired the paranormal world of creativity.

That is a book that goes through all songs, art, Nobel prizes, inventions, science, and it looks, you look at where all these inventions came from and you start to see all these weird stories about people having visions in the middle of the night and stuff like that.

The other book that is it was very popular.

The biggest book was Contact Modalities.

That's the one that actually experience your groups use in.

That's this idea that there are all these different modalities that you can use.

The people around the world from different cultures have used different modalities to get in the field.

And it gives you this idea that trauma may be part of it.

So you may be complaining because you had an accident or wherever.

That's how they RIP the veil.

They have this trauma event which shuts down your left brain.

Suddenly the veil opens up and you suddenly become psychic.

And so Contact Modalities is the biggest book that I've sold.

The other book that is very interesting that will surprise people is I do a book called Tuned in the Paranormal World of Creativity, which came to me through a synchronicity.

I won't get into it, but I had no interest in music.

I don't play a musical instrument.

They try to make me take piano lessons.

I wouldn't take them.

I don't listen to music and I listen to podcasts and I got to write a book on music and I know my father be rolling around in his grave saying I can't believe my kid wrote a book on music because I was just like a total musical, my whole family's musical.

My mother was a church organist for 40 years.

My father built theatre organs.

My sisters were in a were in a group and Pearl Grant didn't have nothing.

But I wrote this book and it basically goes in again to the inspired where do songs come from?

So I go through all the songs and how many, how many major musicians, especially in Great Britain are experiencers and the stories of their UFO sightings and that their contact events and stuff like this.

And it's just fascinating to see this whole thing.

And I, the book is given to me.

That's what they wanted me to do this book on.

And I go into a game, the contact thing where people are getting songs in dreams or guy son dies in Great Britain and, and he when he's born and he can't bury the kid they want.

The priest won't bury him in the schoolyard when he goes to bed that night.

The, the, the, the, the angels come to me and say, sometimes when this happens, we give the person a gift.

And I know if you know the story, the, the guy walks around for 20 years with the Symphony in his head and eventually he gets it produced.

This raises millions of dollars to get this thing produced.

And the Lenin Philharmonic Orchestra actually play this.

It's called, I forgot the name, of course, but it's a song that was given to him when his son died.

So that book is very interesting.

The, the tuned in because it's, it's this weird aspect of, of interaction.

It's not alien.

It's, it's, it's this whole idea that there's all sorts of interactions with people who are channeling books and stuff like that.

And so those are the ones that I recommend.

And the, the managing magic was the one that sort of looks at the government, how the government is leaking stuff into, into the, into the culture to try to acclimatize people to understand the story, but not spill the milk.

The aliens, aliens and the governments are doing the same thing.

They're telling you the story, but they're not spilling the milk because once you spill the milk, you can't put it back in the glass.

So they're gradually taking bread crumbs and you're following these little bread crumbs along and they give you this piece and this piece and most of my books and that's how it works.

I, they basically give me an idea and I know what the next book is going to be and I start on next book and, and I don't edit the books.

My assistant edits and I say, once you edit, I don't want to see it anymore.

I couldn't guess.

I never read anything.

I do, I never listen to anything that I, I record on, on podcasts or, or YouTube or on, you know, documentaries or anything.

I, I just don't, I just spend my time listening to podcasts and, and waiting for the next idea to come in my head.

And, and the books, I've done 22 books, but there's, there's some on disclosure, but a lot of the ones I recommend are the ones on consciousness, because that's what this is about.

This is about how does reality actually work?

Why are we here?

What, how does the world actually work?

How does the universe actually work?

And quantum physics is getting there.

It's starting to back up our ideas.

And it's basically the fact that the world is made out of consciousness and we, that's the sparks of divine are using the consciousness to create the heavens and the earth.

And it's getting more complex and you get ideas and you make it more complex.

If we else gets an idea and make it more complex, that's what's going on.

That's how it works according to all the mystical literature, all the the regression stuff, all the Chandlers, they're all telling the same story.

People say Chandlers, they all tell different stuff.

And I say, have you fallen on your head?

Have you not read a book?

You can read channel material.

It's all the same.

They're all saying exactly the same thing in a little bit different way.

But the answers are being given to us and eventually we're going to be there and the, the new world will will arise and to have different challenges and different things that we can do.

And it'll be more altruistic.

It'll be more into helping people into doing stuff for other people rather than the the game that we're playing right now is whoever's got the most toys when they die wins, and I will make sure to.

Include, you know, the links that you referenced there in terms of your website and the podcast, etcetera, just to make it easy for people to be signposted to your books, be signposted to your website, your podcast and everything else.

So I will put those in the podcast description notes as well as on the website.

So anyone listening, if you have an interest, hopefully that should be easy for you to follow up and to yeah, see what Grant is up to and what he's continuing to look at.

And honestly, Grant, it's been such a pleasure to to chat with you this evening.

I really appreciate you coming along and and giving up your time to give your insights and your thoughts for those listening to the podcast.

Well, thank you, Michelle.

Maybe we can do it down the road when this.

Thing has opened up a little bit more in terms of whether we get a some sort of statement of answering the questions we want answered or this telepathy thing is is it unfolds.

I think the next year is going to be very, very changing in the next in the next year, but it's not what people think it is going to be these background changes.

So maybe we can do it again sometime.

I really enjoyed it and hopefully people learned and if they want if they got any questions or experiences they want explained.

My e-mail address is whitehouseufoallonewordwhitehouseufo@gmail.com.

And honestly, thank you again for your time and.

I'll say goodbye to everybody listening.

Bye everybody.

Thank you for joining us on this journey into the unknown.

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