Whistle Stops and Wonders: Exploring the Great Western Railway

Michelle: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to Haunted History Chronicles. First of all, thank you for taking a listen to this episode. Before we begin, I just want to throw out a few ways you get involved and help support the show.

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Michelle: All of the links for those can either be found in the show notes or over on the website. Of course, just continuing to help spread the word of the show on social media, leaving reviews and sharing with friends and family is also a huge help. So thank you for all that you do. And now let's get started by introducing today's podcast or guest welcome aboard. Our destination the remarkable West Somerset Railway. A 22.75 miles heritage railway line that weaves through the picturesque landscapes of Somerset in England. This railgen, with its rich history and magnificent vistas, promises an experience that's as enchanting as it is enlightening. The West Somerset Railway, known fondly as the WSR, isn't just a railway line. It's a living testament to the past, a glimpse into an era when steam whistles echoed and locomotives chugged with determination. From the very beginning, the West Somerset Railway has been a labor of love. Supported by collective effort, this railway's heartbeat throbs with a rhythm of heritage steam and diesel trains that traverses its tracks. But the story doesn't start in the modern age. It finds its origins in the Victorian era. Back in 1862, a single line connected Taunton and watchit, threading its way through the landscapes of Somerset. This railway served as more than just a mode of transportation. It was a conduit that connected people, places and dreams. The path of the WSR was one of expansion and evolution. In 1874, the Minehead railway lent its hand to history, extending the line from Watchit to the coastal town of Minehead. But even as the track stretched onward, the railway's significance transcended mere distance. The first half of the 20th century demanded improvements to accommodate a burgeoning number of tourists seeking solace along the Somerset coast. Yet the course of history took an unexpected turn. In 1971, British Rail closed the line and the tracks that once echoed with the footsteps of passengers fell silent. But this wasn't the end of the story. It was merely an intermission. In 1976, the West Somerset Railway emerged from the ashes, reborn as a heritage line. Today, the West Somerset Railway stands tall as the longest heritage railway in the United Kingdom. At the heart of the railway's history are the countless stories etched into the stations, the tracks and the very essence of the railway, from those laying the track foundations to the station masters and people in the communities. And what better way to unravel these stories, the history and some of the ghostly stories that remain, than through the words of a true railway enthusiast? And historian. Joining us is Robin Wichard, a retired history teacher with over 30 years of experience. Robin's passion for the West Somerset Railway goes beyond the pages of books. History comes alive when you are able to step back into time. So whilst I have your attention, I want to also highlight an opportunity to do just that on the 9th and 10 September of 2023. This year, with the West Somerset Railway 1940s event. My upcoming guest, Robin and the West Somerset Railway is set to transport you to an era of vintage elegance, captivating melodies and unforgettable memories. It's a weekend that celebrates the sights and sounds of the 1940s, an era remembered for its resilience, camaraderie and spirited determination. Tickets can be purchased from the West Somerset Railway. Links will be in the podcast notes so you can take part and be immersed in the time gone by as costumed performers breathe life into the streets and stations. And if there's one event that promises to be a highlight of the festivities, it's the Saturday night Platform Dance, ready to sweep you off your feet at none other than Minehead Station itself. Echoes of the 1940s resonate through live music and the chance to visit vintage fairs and classic vehicle displays. Fancy learning to lindy hop? Now's your chance to master those iconic moves that defined an era too. It's a weekend that promises to transport you straight into the heart of the 1940s. Spirit journeying from platform to platform on board a vintage locomotive, letting you enjoy the sights, sounds and memories of the 1940s along the way. And now, without further ado, let's begin our own journey through some of the history stories and magnificence of the West Somerset Railway. Robin will be our guide, unveiling tales of Victorian ambitions, steam powered dreams and the indomitable spirit of preservation. Make sure to stay tuned until the very end, where I'll be sharing an account of a listener and his own possible paranormal experiences by a railway track near his home. So buckle up, listeners, for a journey that's not just a ride through the past, but a voyage into the heart of a legacy that refuses to fade away. Hi, Robin, thank you so much for joining me this evening.

Robin Wichard: It's a great pleasure to be with you.

Michelle: Would you like to just start by telling us a little bit about yourself and your background?

Robin Wichard: I started life as an archaeologist, professional life as an archaeologist, then went into teaching and did 33 years as a history teacher in various roles, and from there I've gone into other heritage related roles after leaving teaching.

Michelle: Quite a long career, really. Having that love for history, which I can completely understand. And the fact that you're now working in heritage locations is pretty exciting. And I know one of the areas that you support is something that we're going to be talking about tonight, which is the British Railway. And it's an area of history, I think, that people have an understanding of, but maybe not really a deep understanding. And it's something we use, but we don't necessarily understand the significance and the impact that it's had on Great Britain, but also, obviously, elsewhere in the world. So it's a topic I can't wait to get into talking to with you tonight, to be honest.

Robin Wichard: Well, I don't profess to know, being expert on railways by a long shop, and my main focus is what's called the West Somerset Railway to preserve Great Western Railway branch line. So I'm much better informed on that than necessarily on railways generally, but I can talk about that one quite happily.

Michelle: Yeah, and that's the area that I'm really interested in talking about, because like I said, it's that knowledge of what the significance of these lines were and their origins, how they were used, all of those things at very much local level. But the significance that it had for the wider transportation system, all of those things that again, I just think somehow we've become disconnected to we use them, we see them, but we don't necessarily understand the history of those origins and the significance for the community. And that's something that I think when people like yourselves and heritage locations really help to preserve some of that, I think it's really important because it's a massive part of our history and it's something that really should be celebrated.

Robin Wichard: Absolutely. It's a great way as well for people to learn. You can learn so much from books by actually visiting these places, seeing the material in situ and understanding it is a much better way.

Michelle: So do you want to kind of take us back to the beginnings of this particular railway line and so on, and just tell us the origins of it, when it started, what happened, what was the kind of the idea around creating this line, why it was necessary?

Robin Wichard: Well, you start back in the days of an engineer, fantastic engineer, by the name of Isabara Kingdom Brunel, who was an awesome gentleman. He actually designed a whole range of things. He designed bridges like the Clifton Suspension Bridge at Bristol. He designed ships like the SS Great Britain, the Great Eastern. The Great Britain. You can still, of course, visit in Bristol today, beautifully restored. He designed buildings, many of the buildings on the old Great Western Railway were designed by him. He engineered railways and he engineered what became the Great Western Railway, which was known by many as God's Wonderful Railway because it was such a fantastically engineered piece of work. He used what was called Broad gauge. It was a 7ft and a quarter inch gauge, which allowed trains to travel in those days very fast, but also very smoothly. So GWR became known as God's Wonderful Railway because it was so smooth and so fast and so reliable, which is.

Michelle: I mean, it's just incredible, isn't it? He really was a significant person in our history, like you said, so well known for so many different engineering feats and the introduction of a railway line. I don't think we really can understand the importance that it would have had, because we're so used to being able to get into our car or get onto some form of transportation to take us somewhere. But it would have been really very much transformative in terms of transport, in terms of transportation for people, as well as for freight, in just making life very, very different and opening up parts of the world for people in a way that maybe they hadn't had before and hadn't experienced before. This would have been something really quite magnificent and something to celebrate.

Robin Wichard: A shadow of doubt. It completely changed the world. It was instrumental in creating Britain's wealth in the Industrial Revolution. Prior to that, the most effective way of moving goods around was either by horse and cart, or alternatively, by canal. And while the canals were effective, they were very limited in a lot of ways in the number of places you could go by canal, the volume of material you could actually carry. So the first railways absolutely revolutionized trade. You could carry vast amounts, more than you could by any other method, faster, over a much greater infrastructure. People all of a sudden could actually visit places they'd only ever imagined. Before you've got the birth of holidays, people could now visit the coast, places like that. So it really did transform society in so many different ways.

Michelle: Yeah, I was just going to say, I think it would have meant that the industry, the trade generated for holiday making, people being able to go away for a weekend at the seaside and paddle in the ocean would have been so significant. Like I said, just opened up parts of the world for the first time and made things so much easier and so much faster. But it was this huge machine. I mean, it was this revolutionizing technology, this bit of industry, but there was significant amount of money of people investment behind it to really get this going, wasn't there? And no small feat to lay down the amount of track needed, the amount of work needed to make it happen. This was really engineering, I think, at one of its best. Just talk about some of that, that process of what it was like for that building process, getting things started.

Robin Wichard: Well, of course, a railway track has to run relatively smooth. You can have inclines on it, but they can only be of a certain level. I mean, on the West Somerset Railway, our biggest incline is one in 65, and some engines struggle to climb up that. So you've got to make sure that your land is well surveyed. You've got to make sure that your track bed is as level as you can possibly make it. You've got to make sure that your curves, where you need to make a curve in the track isn't too severe, otherwise the train will struggle to get around the curve. If there is no other way through it, you've got to build tunnels. And one of the greatest engineering feats of the Great Western Railway was the seven tunnel, which is still in use today, which is miles in length. Massive piece of engineering just to actually get the wood. All the sleepers are made of oak, so huge amounts of wood were actually required to do it, huge amounts of steel for the tracks. It really was an incredible engineering feat, but people realized very early on the potential profits to be made and there were huge profits to be made and people realized very early on just how much money could be made in creating railways, which led to what was called the railway revolution. Huge numbers of railways were built across the country. Lots of different areas had their own small railway corporations set up. Many of them were subsumed later into the big four railway companies, but it became a big business to actually set up one, and the West Somerset is no exception. A gentleman by the name of Peregrine Aclund, who had estates in the Croakam area in Somerset, was one of the first to realize the value of having a railway cross his land. And actually, if he could control that, he had a great chance of making money, because if the railway could go from the main line in Taunton across to the port at Watchit, there could be a huge amount of trade going through Watch It, which would have to be transported by rail across his land. So he was one of the first person to actually advocate the railways then opened in 1862, those often involved in.

Michelle: The trade and so on, and needing that to come through where they were stopping along the way. So it kind of was this very advantageous system to kind of really benefit them. And again, just an incredible process that you could just see the impact that it was going to have. Do you know how long it took for the creation of the West Somerset line in terms of time of construction, the scope of what that was, in terms of beginning to obviously there probably were various stages of it, but that process of construction in terms of time, well, that varies.

Robin Wichard: The first stage of the railway was between Taunton, the mainline Taunt, actually, in Norton, Fitz, Warren and Watchit, and that was built in 1862. But obviously the engineering had to take place before the land surveying and preparation. There were no tunnels on the line, so that wasn't too bad. There were a number of embankments that had to be created, cuttings that had to be cut through, so there was quite a lot of engineering to be done. It's very difficult to say how long that process lasted, but it certainly was very successful because within four or twelve years, the railway was extended on from watch it to Minehead. The good people of minehead saw the value of the railway and wanted to make sure they weren't missing out on it. They asked to have the line extended, which it was one of the great drivers of. That was the Luttrell family, who owned Dunster Castle at the time and wanted to have somewhere that their guests could actually disembark from the railway and actually come and visit the castle. So Dunster Station was actually partly funded.

Michelle: By the Lutrell family, which is really quite incredible. That motivation simply to aid their visitors. That's their means of investment, to aid their visitors in getting to see them. But again, it makes so much sense, doesn't it, because here is a method of transportation that is just making travel so much easier. So of course people are going to see that opportunity to invest the money return would have been quite significant as well, wouldn't it? Would have been very profitable for those people investing to see a return as owning shares potentially in this big business that it was generating.

Robin Wichard: It would have been. But for the Lutrells, it was more an issue of prestige to be able to get your guests to come to your own local station. They sponsored a platform for the rear of the good shed, which is actually built for them, so the visiting people could actually disembark their polo ponies and take them up to the castle to play polo and whatever else, which is lovely. There's some fantastic photographs of Indian maharajas with trains of elephants not leaving the station, going up to the polo fields in front of the castle to play polo. It was a different era, but it was a great status symbol to be able to have that. And that's why Dunster Station is rather more elaborate than any of the other stations on the line.

Michelle: That's how the other half live. We can only imagine three pictures.

Robin Wichard: True.

Michelle: But it's incredible, though, that those things survive and that's part of the history that you've got these moments captured of those things basically making their way to Dunster Castle via this line. It's really quite impressive.

Robin Wichard: But it also changed the geography of the area as well, because they wanted the railway to go to Minehead, which it did, but the railway realized that the passengers on the railway would want to go to the coast. At the time, Minehead was some way in land, so when the railway arrived at the town, very quickly, the town had to extend down to meet the railway. So if you actually visit my main head today and look at the main shopping area, and then follow the avenue down from the shopping area down towards the station, you'll notice that all the buildings are virtually identical. So they had to be built in one go to try and move the town down towards the railway station. It literally changed the social economic balance of the country as well.

Michelle: And again, I think that's something that maybe people don't necessarily know about in terms of that local history, possibly of the significance it had on the geography of the area that they live in, that it could mean that your town grew to accommodate this or extended to meet it. And because of that need, it really did impact, like you mentioned, on the socio geographical nature of that place. And that can kind of get lost over time, that understanding of how your local community might have grown because of this new need that was coming in, this new method of transportation that was coming in and people's need and desire to use it. But yeah, they had really quite significant impacts on locations and places because suddenly people had access to something for the first time. That also meant that people could come to you in that way for the first time as well. So it kind of worked both ways, didn't it?

Robin Wichard: Well, there was a certain irony that one of the first trainloads of visitors to arrive in mine had actually rioted and looted the towns. It didn't go quite as planned originally, but they obviously forgave it and carried on. But what's interesting is that as the Industrial revolution took place, more and more factories were being built. There was quite a substantial shift in the population from the countryside to these towns and cities. But obviously these people there had to be fed. So all of a sudden these rural farmers in very isolated locations had access to a means of selling their produce. So most stations would actually have small cattle dock or whatever else where cattle could be taken, where produce could be taken, put onto the trains and sold. So it really brought the country together in a way it had previously.

Michelle: So in terms of the first trains that kind of ran along this line, do you know anything about the people that operated them? In terms of the train engineers and so on, do you have any information about the people involved?

Robin Wichard: We have some records of people, we've got names in many cases, for example, the station masters along the line and people like that. Ironically, we know more about people who died on the line than we know about many of the living, simply because obviously where people died there were autopsies, there were inquests and so on. So we've got the details of those that give us quite an insight into those individuals, whereas in many other cases what we've got are names rather than any other details that we can find. So yes, we have got not we do have knowledge of some of the people that lived on the line, certainly.

Michelle: I mean something you just said was actually something I was going to mention because I think accidents obviously would have been something very much needed to be recorded. So of course, it completely makes sense that you've also got those kinds of more detailed records whilst we've talked about how incredible an industry this was and how big it was and the significance that it had. But sometimes accidents do happen. It's the nature of doing something this big in this large of a scale, but also, over time, just accidents happening in the workplace. So, of course, it makes total sense that there are these records that point to those tragedies, really, and having more detail behind the names and what happened and the investigations as to what took place.

Robin Wichard: We have to remember, on the very first demonstration of the steam train, one of the visitors stepped out in front of it, was killed by a train. So the link between trains and accidents is long established. In fact, that's really why railways like the Heritage Railways today are so safe, is because every time there was an accident, there was an inquiry to find out what happened, new measures were put in place. So if you look, for example, at the signaling that takes place on the West Somerset Railway, the structure of the signaling is around 120 years old, but it's still regarded as safe today because it has so many different actions and contributed to making it safe.

Michelle: Yeah, absolutely. They had to be very thorough and investigate, didn't they? So, of course, anytime something like that happened, new things were put into place so that it becomes better, it becomes more seamless to try and prevent something like that happening again, because it would have been something very much reported and newsworthy, and again, people investing wouldn't have wanted to see continued accidents. And so, yeah, it makes sense.

Robin Wichard: Yeah, definitely bad publicity to have accidents. So the safer you could make your railway, the better you could advertise it.

Michelle: Because people want to use it, but they don't want to be using something that is associated with many accidents, do they? It's that simple. Like you said, it's bad business.

Robin Wichard: When there were accidents the early days, they were still finding out how these things should run. Many of the early railways were single track, so there's always the danger of a single track railway, of having two trains coming in opposite directions, so eventually branches were put in place to stop that. But until that time, there were always risks and it was early on a potentially dangerous environment.

Michelle: Do you have any particular tragic accidents in those early days that are of particular note?

Robin Wichard: We know of some. We know of a gentleman who died in a shunting accident in Dunster, in the Good shed in Dunster. Whether or not he is the person that reputedly haunts it, I have no idea. But the Dunster Good Shed is long known to be linked with hauntings. In fact, the actor Arnold Ridley, who played Private Godfrey in the program Dad's Army actually came down to West Somerset on one occasion, heard the story of the haunted Ghost in the Good Shed and went off and wrote a play called The Ghost Train on the back of that experience. So we know that there was an incident there. And whether or not that spirit still is there is up to individuals to make their own judgment. We know, for example, at Blue Anchor Station, where I'm the station master, one of the previous station masters, a gentleman called Henry Crane, back in the 1880s, was a fairly old chap. He was 68 in those days, he was partly deaf and at the time it was necessary to go out and close the crossing gates by hand. So he went out on one occasion where a train was due, checked the gates records, say he spoke to some people over the gate. He then turned back and leant down as if to pick somebody up off the train, off the track, didn't hear the train, and the actual box on one of the engines caught him in the head and basically he was killed shortly or died shortly afterwards. So obviously there are quite considerable records there from the inquest, but that led to changes because shortly after that, signals were put in to make sure that sort of accident couldn't happen again. The gates were then mechanically operated from that point on. So, like I say, as soon as there's an incident, something is done to try and improve it.

Michelle: Absolutely. Those necessary changes coming through as a result of those investigations, it would have been absolutely necessary, because a tragedy like that is really quite significant, isn't it? And like we've mentioned, it would have been news and it would have been bad business.

Robin Wichard: It would I mean, it was it just shows how health and safety has changed, because the idea of a gentleman in those days, at 68 years old doing that job, even being partly deaf, is not something you'd imagine today. So it just shows how different the standards were then. But that is what happened. And there were many accidents. We know as well of other tragedies. We know of a gentleman called James Thornton Bellamy who hanged himself in the Good Shed at Watchit Station. Not sure why he did it, but obviously he took his own life there. So the railway, wherever you've got anything like that, you have a history of tragedy accompanied it as well.

Michelle: But it's the nature of, I think, any type of operation like that, it is dangerous. And like you said, this was new engineering, it was something new, where they were testing things out as they were going, they were improving operations as they were going. And so you can only ever respond to what's happening at ground level either kinks and problems being reported by those using it and looking to try and increase efficiency and improve the travel experience but also as a response to something that happens that you have to respond to where there is an accident. And so it is this constantly moving process and operation to improve what they have already built to make it something as safe as possible, as smooth and comfortable an experience as possible for those people using it. And that takes time, it takes evolution, doesn't it? It takes knowledge and expertise. Something sometimes sadly happening that makes you aware of a problem that maybe you just wouldn't have thought about in those early first few years, because of the fact that this is new, this is something that hasn't been used and tested in this way until then.

Robin Wichard: Well, absolutely, we learn by experience. Yeah, I remember reading a short time ago about a case in America some years ago now, where a woman bought an automatic car and simply took it out on the road and sat back in the car and it crushed. She actually won a huge amount of money because the instructions of the vehicle did not make clear that the automatic part was a gearbox, not that it would self drive. So, yeah, we learn from experience as we go along.

Michelle: But you mentioned something there, traveling by car. If we think about us getting into our cars today, compared to those first cars, safety on the roads, being behind a wheel was actually quite dangerous. There were plenty of accidents and problems when they were first introduced to the roads, and cars constantly change. They add things to them to try and make them safer, whether it's someone who's involved in an accident to try and do all they can to minimize loss of life and serious injury. And that comes from constant engineering. It comes from these experts who really are there to try and build something and make something, the best that it can be. And these are the individuals who just like, part of this process of building these lines that we've been mentioning, they don't just get involved and that's their job done that they walk away from. This is operations that take individuals then constantly looking to improve those. And we still see it today just as much as we did back then. This need to update and change things for the better.

Robin Wichard: Absolutely. Things will always improve and railways are no exception. As I said before, when the Great Western Railway was first built, it used what was called broad gauge, 7ft and a quarter inch. Sadly, the rest of the country didn't. The rest of the country used what was called standard gauge, which was 4ft, eight and a half inches. So eventually the Great Western Railway had to convert. And if you look at the West Somerset Railway, which is now a length of about 23 miles, that was literally converted in one weekend, so all the track was lifted and relayed in one weekend along the 23 miles of track. Incredible feat.

Michelle: Oh, my gosh. Yeah. That is incredible. That is really quite incredible.

Robin Wichard: In fact, on the back of that experience some years. Later, when more of the Great Western mainline was lifted, they lifted 171 miles of track, including 43 miles of double track, again in one weekend, using 4000.

Michelle: Laborers, something like that. When you mentioned those numbers, 4000 laborers, this would have been quite significant in terms of jobs along that whole process, whether it was engineering and building and constructing it, but then working the line, working the stations. So something like this would have been a really positive opportunity for those looking for work, looking to kind of get involved, and again would have changed the landscape of those living in those areas in terms of bringing in new types of industry and business and jobs for the communities and the people living in them very much.

Robin Wichard: The Great Western Railway was one of the premier railways in the country. Its headquarters in Swindon was almost a railway city. There was a whole town built for railway workers there. It had its own hospital. The workers in Swindon actually paid into fund, so if they were sick, they actually got free medical care on the back of that, which is one of the models used for the National Health Service in 1948. So it really was a very advanced system. Their engineering works in Swindon was regarded as one of the leading ones around the world. If you're able to say that you were a Swindon trained engineer, it was a passport to a job just about anywhere, because they knew that would be among the best.

Michelle: You've really got this movement towards adding these lines to connect places, to allow people to travel to different places. And we see these same kinds of stories then elsewhere in other parts of the country for this period. And it was this huge movement, this surge in this type of transportation and this type of industry.

Robin Wichard: It was the problem was it was almost too big because railways were cropping up everywhere. It became almost a pad to have a railway in your area respective of whether it was commercially viable. So a fair number of railways never really were financial successes simply because it seemed a good idea at the time, but there wasn't the demand for it and everything else. And sadly, we mentioned the cars earlier. As more and more vehicles came on the road, particularly lorries, the railways lost out. They simply couldn't compete. While the railways were very good and far better than canals at actually taking goods from one location to another, they couldn't do door to door. And once you had the development of heavy lorries that could actually take goods directly from a manufacturer to the place where the goods were required, the railways basically became superfluous. And that was the beginning of the end, really, for them.

Michelle: I know that I suppose one of the other significant changes that it would have had along the way would have been Great Britain at war. And I'm thinking in particular the Second World war and how stations and railways were taken over by the government, weren't they? And how they were used by the government during the Second World War. Do you know anything of that nature when it comes to this area, this line in particular, in terms of what that meant for them? When periods of change like the First World War and the Second World War.

Robin Wichard: Happened, we always think about the war as being remarkably damaging. And if you look at the bombing damage done to countries like France and Germany who had to rebuild their infrastructure, we didn't have that same problem. Bombing caused damage. If you look at the Great Western Railway, they only actually ever lost two locomotives to bombing damage in the whole of the war. Other ones were damaged but could be repaired. Only two locomotives were actually ever lost. So in many ways, business carried on as normal trains were requisition, particularly things like the lead up to D Day for moving vast amounts of troops. There was also Operation Pipe Piper. Early on, the evacuation of children a remarkable achievement, evacuating children from all over the country to different safe locations, which again was done in a very short time by train. But basically the trains carried on pretty much as normal. Government left them at the running of them to the actual railways, but put an oversight on top of it. So the railways in many ways continued much as they were. But obviously it wasn't easy to move around because of the war restrictions. A lot of it carried on as normal. People still moved and used the railway to travel to work to and from work to or from school or whatever else. So that level of work continued. There were just additional trains put in, moving munitions, moving aircraft and parts and so on and so forth. So really it was just an upscaling of the opportunities rather than nothing else.

Michelle: If they really would have been a major part of that war effort. I mean, you mentioned something about troop movement. We're talking a lot of troops, taking them to various places for training, but then obviously onto other locations so that they can go elsewhere in terms of if they're being prepared to go elsewhere for particular war effort. But also that movement of children. Like you mentioned, the evacuation process, we're not talking small numbers of troops, we're not talking small numbers of children here. These are sizable movements of people at large scale, large operations, of which the rail system played a significant part, were very efficient in doing this. And so, yeah, you can really see the impact, the significance that this type of transportation had for the war effort.

Robin Wichard: It was a huge effort, there was no doubt about it. The sheer number of trains moving QAS around the country was remarkable. How they achieved it all go quite to plan. There was an occasion, for example, in Watchit Station on the westmint Railway. A group of land girls were supposed to be arriving by train. The Mayor had actually come out to meet them and by accident somebody rerouted a train full of evacuees. So all of a sudden the Mayor is greeting a whole load of evacuees he didn't know he was going to get. So things did go wrong from time to time, but the country dealt with it really rather well. What you've got to remember, these aren't regular. These are one off events. There were only two or three evacuations. There was a main evacuation early on, Operation Pipe Piper, the second evacuation, once the V One bomb and started coming down about 43, the movement of troops would not have been a regular thing. You had mass movements of troops prior to D Day, but you got to remember, a lot of troops would have travelled on vehicles, motor vehicles, from place to place. Britain had a highly mechanized army at that point, so we would have actually used a lot of road transport to move people around. You also didn't want to move too many troops around by train because obviously there was always a risk of spies, so you didn't want people seeing where you were moving troops from and to. So it wasn't necessarily a regular thing, moving large bodies of troops. More troops would be moved actually coming home from leave, going to their home stations or whatever, or returning back to.

Michelle: The front, which was just as significant, that ability to reunite people when they were on leave and send them back when it was necessary. But yeah, like I said, it's fascinating that it does play that part that it had in the war. That again, I think when people learn about the Second World War, for example, we learn aspects of significant periods in terms of fighting in the air, that progress that was made during that very short period of time in understanding just the nature of flying, the process of building something and getting it up into the air. The impact that the war had in escalating our understanding of flying and traveling by air is really quite significant. But then obviously there are so many other key, pivotal things that we learn and we understand about the impact of war. I think possibly that connection with the rail maybe is less thought of. We know about the evacuation of children. We've all seen those images, haven't we? Of them with their little gas masks around their neck, people waving them off on the railway line and so on. But we do forget that it was the transportation system that was aiding this, that was helping in the safe movement of these children when those plans were put into place. And it's not an easy thing, but I do think it's a testimony to I mean, we've seen it recently, haven't we, with the Pandemic? I think it's a testimony to how people come together in crisis across various different organizations, whether it's the National Health Service or in this case that we've been talking about, the Railway service coming together at a time of need to put their expertise to really good use to help bring something together that it can't be easy to do. And even with the OD mistake here, like you mentioned, with the evacuation of the children going to watch it instead of the land girls, even with slip ups like that, we're talking a significant number of things happening off of the back of people just really coming together to do what they could to play their part as well.

Robin Wichard: I think it's a true truism to say that war brings out the best and the worst in people. And certainly you see things like it's not just a case of a train of evacuees arriving at the wrong station, but something then has to be done with them. You can't just send them on to somewhere else. You've got to take them in, you've got to accommodate them and find homes. You've got to get all the people around you willing to actually take part in that. It's a remarkable feat. The entire train of evacuees can arrive and be accommodated even though they weren't expected. And it really is quite, as you say, quite a tribute to the people at the time. But I think one of the problems is today we only really see trains in terms of movement of passengers between key locations. And what we lose sight of is the fact that the primary function of the trains early on was actually the movement of freight. And it was the death of the freight business that really caused the death of so many of the smaller railways and the beaching cuts for the 1960s.

Michelle: Before we head back to the podcast, if you haven't already visited The Haunted History Chronicles Patreon Page, now is the perfect time to join, to listen and enjoy a multitude of additional podcasts, merchandise, mail and other written materials. It's a great way to support the podcast to continue to grow and put out additional content to share guests and their stories, as well as helping the podcast to continue to be enjoyed. You can find the link in the episode Description Notes as well as on The Haunted History Chronicles website. And remember, you can always help support guests in the podcast by coming and liking the social media pages and chatting over there. It's truly all very much appreciated. And now let's head back to the podcast.

Robin Wichard: Passengers alone won't support a railway we were very lucky on the West Somerset Railway in its British Rail days that as late as 1930s we were actually able to run between Minehead and Taunton over 20 trains a day, and that included two express trains padding to the Minehead. It's hard to imagine that today you'd ever get that amount of business. That's because it was a tourist venue in those days, tourism. That was the primary way in which tourists actually traveled. But even that's changed. You simply can't support it anymore in terms of the volume of people wanting to travel by train. And with the freight business dying, it really was unsustainable. As a commercial railway, the role that.

Michelle: They had was really quite significant, but this was really transformative in terms of business, transport, trade, jobs, economy, scaling up, growing of towns, places would have boomed as a result of these coming into certain areas. And sadly, some of that obviously then started to disappear as some of these stations and these lines were lost.

Robin Wichard: Well, huge numbers of these lines are lost today. Some of them survive as obviously cycle paths or footpaths. Many of them have simply lost altogether. Driving down towards Tipperton in North Devon, you pass a weird bridge on the side of the road, which appears to serve no function. It's actually an old railway bridge, but there's nothing left other than that bridge. The rest of the infrastructure, the station buildings, the track has all gone completely. You've just got these OD little remnants every now and again, which is a shame. But on the other hand, if the beaching cuts hadn't occurred, you probably wouldn't have heritage railways today. So it's only because people were willing to take on some of these tracks and actually maintain them as heritage railways. And we've got so many heritage railways in the country, so it's a double edged sword, really.

Michelle: You've got a fantastic opportunity coming up shortly, I think, isn't it, over the next few months, where you're going to showcase World War II, isn't it, and the railway, do you want to tell us a little bit about that and what people can expect?

Robin Wichard: Yeah, what we try to do is to recreate some of the scenes that you would have seen alongside the West Somerset Railway in the days, well, throughout the decade of the 1940s, particularly the war years. And although it's a normal backwater today, west Somerset really had quite a lot going for it during the war. You had a huge American camp at Norton Manor, which is now the base of our modern Royal Marines forte Commando. You had a huge military hospital, united States Army General Hospital, number 67 in Taunton, which is now the big regional hospital of Musgrove Park. You've got Sand Hill House, which is another hospital. You had a big RAF camp at Doniford, which is where one of our stations is close to. You had something called the Queen Bee site, which is an experimental site using unmanned planes as target practice. You had big tank testing grounds, north Hill at Minehead, with military camps, it really was quite a heavily militarized area, and also one that was anticipated to be a possible site for a German invasion landing, but it's hard to imagine how that would have happened. So you also know a huge number of beach defenses. So what we're trying to do is simply recreate some of those scenes. So we use the sorts of trains and carriages that we've come through the period. Many of the stations, or all of the stations, are actually recreated in 1940 style, right down to blast taping of the windows in case of bomb damage. We take over the town and Watch It. So Swain Street, the main street through Watch It, all the shops there put in 1940s displays in the windows, which are all blast taped. We have a vintage Fair on the esplanade in Watch It, where you can have a look at produce from that period to get a flavor of it. We're bringing classic vehicles, civilian cars, we're bringing military vehicles, we have military camps. We also have quite a lot of live music all the way through along the line as well, at different stations. So you really get a good sense of what it was actually like at that time.

Michelle: I mean, it sounds incredible. This is history coming to life as an experience. To hear it, to hear the music of it, to hear the sounds of it, to have those details like you were mentioning with the windows taped up in case of bomb damage, glass damage. But it's colorful, it's vibrant, isn't it? You've got all the visual aspects with the types of vehicles, you've got things being recreated so that it's very much reminiscent of what it would have looked like during that period. So people can really immerse themselves in that experience, whether it's because of their love of Second World War history, war history in general, if they've got that interest of the troop movements of American troops coming through these areas, just that whole aspect. There's so many different levels and layers to it to enjoy, as well as obviously being able to experience the different stations, how it impacted on an area like Watch It, but these other stations along the way, I mean, just an incredible immersive history experience. That sounds incredible.

Robin Wichard: You could travel on the train and have military police checking your papers, or you could be accosted by a spiv offering you stockings or other knockoff goods at reasonable prices. We do bend the rules slightly. We do try and keep as accurate as we can to what happened at the time. We've no evidence that the King actually ever visited West Somerset, but we do bring down the King in the form of one of our reenactors, who portrays King George VI very accurately. So we do have King George VI, we also have his wife, Queen Elizabeth, later the Queen Mother, and we'll have, obviously, the bodyguards and the military escort as well. So you'll be able to actually meet the King as well as you're going round. So it really is, as far as you say, an immersive experience. It's a way of actually getting a flavor, at least, of what those years.

Michelle: Were like, which I think so many would appreciate and enjoy just because it really does bring it home, I think. I mean, you mentioned very very early on when we were chatting about how these are things we read about in a book. But until you see it, I don't think you can really understand truly what it is like in that same feeling where you can understand it on different levels, can't you? When you get to experience it and see it and just that process that you were mentioning of being on a train and being checked by the military police to make sure you are not a spy basically that you've got your ticket, that you seem above board and legitimate small, trivial things that you may or may not read about in a book. But to sit on a train and understand and go through that process really. Hannah's home the necessity for know the real fear behind those posters that I think we've all seen as part of our secondary educations and so on or if we've been interested in learning about the Second World War. That huge propaganda around fear of the spy. Here it is playing out along a train, traveling. You would have been checked for precisely that reason, but here you are able to experience it, have that moment of why it was so important, play out.

Robin Wichard: Very much so and it is the only way you do get to experience it. Really. What we don't do is anything like battle reenactments because obviously no battles ever took place. We don't have any German troops or anything like that. He's literally trying to recreate what you would have seen at the time as far as is possible. But I always remember talking to my own parents about their experiences during the war and they always made the point that although it was a terrifying time in many ways, we're not knowing what was going to happen in terms of bombing and whatever else. It was a time as well where they never felt more alive because there was that ongoing threat all the time. You lived life at the time, you enjoyed every moment of it. It was a very vibrant time. Although you had rationing of things like that in the blackout, you also had huge changes. The Americans brought in new films, they brought in new music, they brought in new dance moves. It really was a very, very vibrant time to be alive.

Michelle: And again, I just think it's fabulous that you're bringing some of that to help highlight some of that history to people who want to come and enjoy those experiences. And I don't think there's anything more memorable than seeing it played out where you have people dressed in those period costumes reenacting living it as if it's very real. Like I said, it just makes it so much more immersive to be able to hear it, see it, experience it on every single level. And the fact that this is something that travels, that moves, that you can experience in different locations, is pretty unique and special. And again, I think an incredible opportunity for people to come along and to access and to see the magnificence of the railway and see some of these communities, see some of these places, and the impact of some of what we've been talking about, how it's played out, really.

Robin Wichard: There's also something for every really, because depending where you choose to go, you have a different experience. Go to Minehead, for example. There's a wide range of live music there. We've got a number of different bands. We even have a big dance on the Saturday night on the platform. If you go to watch it, watch it is very much based on the home front. So you've got a lot of home front experiences there with the shops and so on. You've also got a lot of civilian cars parked up there. You've got the fair on the esplanade. If you go, for example, to Dunster, you've got military camps. You can actually immerse yourself in the military side of things. With military vehicles, there really is something for everybody in different locations. You can choose what experience you want, really.

Michelle: So one of the dates that this is taking place, it's taking place on.

Robin Wichard: September the 9th and the 10th.

Michelle: Fantastic. I will make sure that the details of how to kind of try and get tickets and so on, that we put all of that information on the podcast, description, dates.

Robin Wichard: It is great. The only thing I will say, dressed as a 1940 station master, I do understand the value of zips and trousers these days.

Michelle: With all buttons.

Robin Wichard: Oh, yeah. Just not as quick and not as easy.

Michelle: No, I think it's like everything else, isn't it? Things change and evolve to make things quicker and easier and faster and a bit more efficient. But yeah, very fiddly process. Lots of buttons. When you're a busy person, you want to go and use the bathroom. I don't envy you there. And they were heavy materials. Clothes that they wore in some ways was quite restrictive in that sense, do you know what I mean? They weren't always lightweight either. When you see those station masters, they're heavy surge material. So, yeah, quite uncomfortable, I would imagine, in heat.

Robin Wichard: They're not comfortable to wear at all. Then of course, you've got a white shirt, you've got a waistcoat as well. It's not designed for comfort.

Michelle: No, it was designed really for the appearance, wasn't it? It was that prestige of what the railway represented. You were almost a physical representation of very much.

Robin Wichard: So the great Western railway was very keen on hierarchy as well. So depending on your rank, depending on what markings you had on your uniform, the color of your badges and so on. So it was a very hierarchical structure.

Michelle: Before you go, I mean, I know you've touched on some of the accounts earlier on of things reported, but is to help preserve some of the heritage and the history. Just giving you that opportunity. Do you have a particular favourite exists along offline?

Robin Wichard: If I was going to choose, one of the primary things which we're most proud of is the signal box at Blue Anchor Station. Because in a signal box at Blue Anchor is the only signal box anywhere in Britain which has the original lever frame, which was installed in 1904, still working in its original building. It's designed on what's called a stud lock system. It's the only stud lock system operating anywhere in Britain, and it also operates the gates from a wheel in the signal box. There are only probably three stations anywhere in the country which has that system, so that really is a remarkably rare survivor and we're very proud of that. The fact it's still operating very effectively today is a tribute to the workmanship.

Michelle: I think that's an incredible bit of engineering.

Robin Wichard: Yeah. When the signal box was built, it was literally state of the art. It was all the latest technology in its place. It does seem antiquated today, but the key thing is it works and it's still safety.

Michelle: See the history behind it, to see the people behind it, to see the locations behind it, to see the impact behind it. And, yeah, just the fact that they get to come and experience some of those things is quite special. The fact that you're helping to keep that going for people to enjoy.

Robin Wichard: Well, it really is living history.

Michelle: Yeah, completely. Absolutely. And I think that's really the significant thing that heritage locations have, that it is living history. You get to experience, you get to see it, you get to feel it. And as we've mentioned, there's something far more visceral in that than just simply reading about something.

Robin Wichard: But unlike a lot of heritage sites, which are preserved as museum pieces, a heritage railway is still functioning. So all of the things on it are actually still working, performing the same tasks they did. So the trains still run, the signals still operate, the signalman still does his work, the station masters are still in charge of the stations. So it's not a preserved museum, it is an old system still operating. I think that's one of the key differences, and that's what makes it such a great experience.

Michelle: It's great fun, those little connections with things, isn't it, that you suddenly have that you didn't have before. And so those things that you maybe wander past or you drive past, that you've never really thought about, suddenly you have something to connect you to it in a way that you didn't have either. And when you can do that, when you can find those moments and find those connections, it's very special. Like I said, it brings history to life. There's something more visceral about it.

Robin Wichard: It does. It's a great irony that I was doing some work on my family tree. Recently, somebody sent me a photograph of the gravestone of one of my relatives with cause of death. Died in an accident on the Great Western Railway. So it's strange how things come round. I haven't yet found out what the accident was, the cause of death, but sometimes I shall try and do some researching.

Michelle: If you come across anything, you'll have to let me know because things like that always pique my interest, honestly. It's been so fascinating to chat to you. Like I said, I'm going to make sure to include those details on the website and in the podcast description notes so that people can come and enjoy this event across that weekend in September. Because it's a really fantastic opportunity, not one to miss if you can get away and enjoy, because brings something to life, I think, and you'll be able to experience something that doesn't come around very often. So thank you so much for telling us about that. But also sharing some of this the wonderful history of the transport system and the Great British Railway and the Great Western Railway in particular and the impact that it's had, the significance that it's had, and why we should be helping to preserve and talk about it and celebrate it and all of the other things that we've mentioned. So thank you for coming along and kind of sharing that knowledge and that passion with us today.

Robin Wichard: That's great pleasure. Glad to talk to you.

Michelle: You're welcome back anytime, Robin, especially if we get to talk history anytime.

Robin Wichard: Sounds like a plan.

Michelle: And I will say goodbye to everybody listening. Bye, everybody.

Michelle: Thanks for staying until the very end of the episode. As promised in the reveal. At the beginning, I explained that at the very end there was going to be a bonus segment, something submitted from someone who listens to the podcast. This one was emailed over to me and shares some of his own experiences along a particular station. His account reads as this one evening in April, while taking my dog for a walk towards Mangotsfield Station from Pomfrey Hill Park, I had the experience of seeing a figure twice in quick succession, following me along the old footpath that runs alongside what would have been the old Midland Railway. On this night, my dog decided to stop and turn around. I looked round to see what had got his attention. Stood a good 10 meters away was a man in a dark suit with a trilby type hat on. He disappeared in the blink of an eye. I dismissed it as a figment of my imagination, so he carried on walking towards the old station. But Bill, my dog, decided to look again and so did I. I saw the figure again and he disappeared instantly again. Now, I was intrigued as to what I saw. I have walked here so many times and not seen or heard anything since.

Michelle: However.

Michelle: My dog stops every time we walk there at the same spot and stares when there is nothing to be seen. I would say the gentleman's fashion was from the era he was heading for the station, I'm sure. The railway line heads north towards Yate and beyond and south to Mangitsfield Station before continuing west towards Bristol. The path is an old path that followed the railway from Mangitsfield North station to the main station, but only a short section now exists. It starts just under the Rodway Road bridge, a three arch bridge. There are now some private houses that have been built by that path. If anyone has any insights or knowledge of this particular track of the path to explain the possible phenomena experienced, I'd love to hear. And of course, you too can always submit examples and experiences that you may have had. You can find ways to connect with me via the website, the links for which are in the podcast description notes.