Brian Phan: Your Voice Matters, Growing Up AAPI

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

aapi community, belonging, experiences, happening, people, individuals, conversation, year, understand, asian, aapi, person, inclusion, feel, talk, struggling, brian, asian american, create, minority

SPEAKERS

Gemma Toner, Brian Phan

Gemma Toner  00:00

Before we jump in, it's Gemma here. We do talk about suicidal thoughts in this episode, which I know can be triggering and distressing for some. If you're struggling, please text 988 to chat with a counselor who's available 24/7 or call 1-800-273-8255 You're not alone and there is help out there. Have you had this conversation atone networks podcast. Hello, everyone and welcome to have you had this conversation. I'm Gemma toner. And today I am so pleased to welcome Brian Finn. Brian is a diversity inclusion and belonging manager in the biotech fields. I'm so excited to have Brian on today's show. We have so much to talk about. There's a lot happening in the diversity and inclusion field and it is rapidly evolving. Welcome to have you had this conversation. Brian, thanks for being here.

Brian Phan  01:04

Thanks for the invite. It's a pleasure to be invited to this podcast. And I'm literally looking forward to our conversation today.

Gemma Toner  01:10

Me too, and I'm looking forward to just learning so much more about what you do. So can you give us a little bit of background about diversity, inclusion and belonging?

Brian Phan  01:22

Yeah, of course. So I'm a diversity inclusion blogging practitioner, diversity, inclusion, belonging. Really, when we're looking at that definition, wise, diversity is just the difference of people as they come. Inclusion is about making sure that people that you're interacting with feel included, and a sense of belonging is when those individuals are showing up to spaces and they truly feel like they belong. That's a very simple definition of each other's diversity inclusion, blogging can be in like intermix with other definitions. So we have equity we have justice are in there. So you'll see acronyms kind of flying in our space back and forth. As DNI, the IB and all is really all encompassing, inclusive, you can't really have one without the other a way that I like to make an analogy of it is you can't really make a cake with just one ingredient, it doesn't work, you really need to mix some things up in order to get to a final product that's, well bait and well desired and that everyone can enjoy. Wow,

Gemma Toner  02:26

that really is helpful. So we because we see a lot about equity, and especially just, you know, celebrating Women's, you know, Equality Day. Equity is that the same as belonging.

Brian Phan  02:41

Equity leads to belonging. So equity when we're talking about what equity even is, is the ability for us to create systems within our organizations and our environment where everyone has an equal chance to succeed. So in the world right now, there are a lot of barriers that prevent people from being successful, both economical, from its standpoints of there not being equality between genders. So there's a lot of biases in the world that prevent equity from happening in a lot of challenges. So equitability allows everyone to play on a level playing field and those need to be created because external from what you're coming into in the group, and I'm talking more of a company focus is all those individuals coming into your company are faced with different inequities, whether they be social health, inequities, Justice inequities. And in order for you to create a sense of belonging, you have to foster an environment where everyone is echoed role and playing on the same playing field at the same level, that enables belonging to happen, because when everyone feels like they have an equal voice, an equal seat at the table, then belonging can happen.

Gemma Toner  04:09

That sounds like a big metric to measure in companies is that something that takes a long time for companies to actually be able to measure that successfully?

Brian Phan  04:25

I think the key word that is the success rate of that, right so a lot of companies adopt what we call pulse surveys. So these pulse surveys generally have various questions and they're pulling their employees on how they feel about the company where they think the company is going and how they have a sense of belonging. And she mentioned that the company, a lot of them will have that question of Do they feel a sense of belonging? Do they feel like the company is equitable, and they can benchmark for that? Based off benchmarking we know for a fact in your listeners where probably feel this as well that not everyone has an equal chance of opportunities. So success is really driven by continuing to measure that. And understanding that in order to make progress, you have to implement progress programs that will help to make your staff members feel equitable fit, feel that sense of inclusion and belonging, nothing is going to change overnight, you could run these surveys month to month and see the same scores. Because this type of change is really changing things are institutional, and introducing things that may make few people feel a little bit uncomfortable, like having candid conversations inside your work environment, or training programs that are more dedicated and curated for specific individuals. For example, if you have a woman of color population within your company, may have to adjust the program that's made specifically for them because they have different experiences than other individuals. So by introducing elements over time you measure your success and get feedback on those things. In order to get a better success metric into inclusion blogging, it may not always work, and you have to adjust over time. But if you're kind of piloting these programs, and getting good feedback, it's very likely that you will be successful in the long run.

Gemma Toner  06:25

Well, yes, let's hope so. Right? So let's get to Brian, you, you're a member of the AAPI community. You know, and this has been, you know, the past year has been one extraordinary year for everyone, but especially for people of color, and for those in the AAPI community. Can you talk a little bit about yourself, tell us about your life experience? And and secondly, on that, you know, can you tell us how the past year has changed?

Brian Phan  06:57

Yeah, of course, I'd love to share my personal history. So to begin, my parents are actually from Vietnam, they are refugees of the Vietnam War, all the way back in the 1960s to 1975, where the Vietnam War was happening. By Nixon 75. In the month of April, the fall of Saigon happen, and both my parents evacuated from the country immigrated to the United States, and they actually met each other in California. So I am the direct result of the refugee immigration movement that happened during that time. And I was born in California, and had an upbringing in the suburbs of Los Angeles, primarily, where I live was mostly Caucasian, white. And my upbringing was very interesting in that I knew that I was a minority. But I never really, truly identified as being Asian first, as much as I was an American. And that has definitely evolved as I got into my adulthood and seeing representation of Asian faces on media, in the news, and also in prominent positions around the world, but specifically in the United States. So growing up, I did have a lot of issues dealing with race based hate. But I would have experiences even as a kid where individuals would come up to me and shout racial slurs at me. I had been harassed in public spaces, very similar to what is happening in today's world, where AAPI community, especially the elderly, are being threatened, assaulted, you know, and it's really hard for me to see because it's really kind of opening old wounds. And the main reason why I would say most of this is happening is because of the general misunderstanding of where COVID-19 had originated from, and the rhetoric that it was based on practices that Asian people were doing in a specific part of the world. Now, there will be a report that's released from the United States talking about the origin of COVID-19. Whether that falls and confirms the information or this confirms that there is a great fear right now within the API community that regardless of what that report unfolds, that it's going to reopen the floodgates of individuals blaming the AAPI community for what is currently going on in this long pandemic that we're all struggling through. And you can see that increase in violence So, so one organization that has been helping to highlight that is the stop AAPI hate group, which was founded in the area of Oakland. And the most recent report has shown that they've reported and receive incidences that are over 9000 In just the past year alone. So I think we started documenting that back in March of this year to August. And the truth of the matter is that those reported incidents incidences are very highly underreported, because the AAPI community is one that traditionally doesn't like to call attention to themselves or these incidences. So I would say that the 9000 is probably very highly underreported, because it is a volunteer basis, that they aren't just pulling this data from like police reports and things like that this is all self voluntarily disclosed. So it's really disheartening to see those numbers, and to see the continued hate on some of my social media feeds that I follow. And maybe we'll highlight some of those things that I do follow for awareness. But yeah, it's definitely been a tough experience growing up here in America, as a minority, and also seeing it kind of almost daily in my newsfeed of continued attacks towards the AAPI. community.

Gemma Toner  11:21

And so you said when you were younger, and you kind of identified more as American first and then as you kind of moved through your life, you became, I guess, more aware? Or you identified more with the AAPI community? Can you elaborate on that? And just help us understand how that happened?

Brian Phan  11:45

Yeah, I mean, as a child, I don't think you really think about race too much. children understand differences in colors, I can look inside a mirror and look at myself, I know that I look physically different than my friends who are primarily Caucasian. And so when you have those interactions, you talk more about commonalities versus differences. But as I grew up and became a teenager, those differences, rear themselves in ugly ways in which people would be very hateful to me and pointing that ways, and just blatantly racist, essentially. And so as I grew up, I realized, Oh, I'm different in that may be considered a negative thing, right? That constant reinforcement from bullies and individuals who were trying to pick fights with me, calling me names. It really defeated my sense of, oh, maybe I am not like them. I'm a different person. And I struggled for a long time on how to rationalize, am I like these people? am I different? And as I grew older, I didn't feel a sense of resentment, as much as a sense of empowerment to understand where do I come from? Why do I seem different? And so I generally had more and more conversations with my parents and my relatives about their experiences in Vietnam and understanding their history, so that I can kind of reconnect with my roots and understand, okay, yes, I was born here in America, but I'm also a Vietnamese person. And this is the makeup of who I am culturally, and understanding and embracing this lot more will be helpful. And as I progressed through my 20s, and saw slowly with the integration of social media tools, like YouTube and Instagram, and now tick tock, I've seen more and more representation of people who went through similar experiences, we talking about those experiences, but also creating new media for me to enjoy where I can see myself and some examples are that are like the new Marvel movie that's coming out Shang chi. Crazy Rich Asians, like, when you think about all of these media that's coming out in recent years, it's very recent, crazy, Rich Asians only came out what like maybe two or three years ago, that was the first time an all Asian cast ensemble had been collected in 25 years, and the previous one before that was the Joy Luck Club. Such a huge gap when you think about it. And it's unbelievable. Yeah.

Gemma Toner  14:27

And it's to the point we you mentioned, this is about awareness, right. I mean, Joy Luck Club was a favorite book of mine. And you know, I love that film, but I didn't even think about it's that long, that long to have another film. And, and, and so you found a way to, you know, overcome very painful situations and become empowered and further, really You identify and become, you know, even more loud and proud about your roots and your heritage? How would you advise other people in the AAPI community that are struggling with this? And especially, you know that this sense of, you know, the perfect minority, the the silence, the I don't want to draw attention to myself? How would you help people come to terms with that?

Brian Phan  15:29

It's a great question. I think, how I want to respond. First and foremost is if you're listening to this, and you're feeling this way, you are not alone. And I wish someone who was more wise in the years had reached out to me when I was a teenager, and said, the same exact thing. The feeling of a sense of community and distraction to inclusion, belonging is a real psychological impact and effect that can create a sense of joy in yourself, when you've come to realize that I'm not the only one who's feeling this way. I'm not the only one who's experienced these things that that there are other people out there that have had these experiences that truly care about my well being and who I am as a person, I think it's really difficult to understand that until you interact with other individuals who have also gone through these types of experiences and have reached out. And so I will say there is now more than ever a plethora of resources, and me out there for you to consume and enjoy. And also networking groups. And so I really highly suggest, if you're feeling kind of out of place, that you don't belong, that you reach out to these groups, and you start to build some connections, even if it's just on the internet. And finding like a buddy that you can kind of talk to, it will change your life. And I honestly believe that through building these connections, you will find a deeper connection to yourself and who you are, and be open to exploring and not steering away from the fact that you are an Asian person or a Pacific Islander person and be proud of that. We are in this country in the United States, a minority and so it's very rare for us to be represented and heard. And so be proud of the fact that you are who you are as person and be proud of the fact that you can be comfortable being who you want to be.

Gemma Toner  17:39

That's so beautiful to hear you share that. And can you that reaching out for help, can you just again, go to that because, again, there's so many people in this community, from what I understand where there's a sense of, I don't want to be a bother, I don't want to be a burden. Just speak to how you figured it out, or how you could help people that are really feeling alone. And what is the first step they could do, they could take.

Brian Phan  18:14

So this will get a little bit deep. I did struggle a lot with not wanting to be a burden and wanting to seek help. And so I did get into a state where I was quite depressed about a lot of things. I had kind of identity crisis of who I was as a person of the things that I was kind of expected to do as that model minority myth. I was expected to become a lawyer doctor, there was a lot of undue pressure on me to be successful, and an A plus student all the time. And that's just truly who I wasn't. Even though I've had successes in my life, I've had just as many challenges and struggles. I'm not a very good person who is good at math, or the sciences. And so what happened to me is, I got into a very depressive state and got to the point where I wanted to commit suicide. And so it's not that I dug myself out of that it's that I reflected on what my purpose was and who I was as a person and understanding that I really wanted to be around for my family more than anything else. And I didn't want to feel like my depression was getting in the way of my family being a big part of my life essentially. Right so I kind of took it upon myself also consulted with my family on what I should do and that led me to getting into talk therapy and just mean not be something that's good for Are everyone but it did help me a lot. And I know that there's a stigma on getting therapy, especially within the AAPI community, I will say that, I encourage you to try it at least just once to see how it goes, especially if you're feeling like you've lost a sense of control and a sense of hope. Because my greatest fear is that you go on living in a state where you just never feel like you have a sense of belonging that you can't be your true self. And what could happen is the worst case scenario of you wanting to take your life and I truly do not want that for anyone, and take it from me, as someone who mentally got there, I really hope that for you, you are able to have the ability to get those resources. And I think it's a lot more attainable. Now, given that most of the world has gone to this virtual environment, that you're able to connect with someone and it may be even more helpful to to find someone who is part of the AAPI community to be your talk therapist, so that you can kind of really talk more deeply on these cultural things. That's something I have done for myself for help is I connected with a person who was identifying as Asian as a talk therapist, and we've been really been able to get to deeper conversations, because when I bring up something that's very culturally relevant to the Asian community, she just nods her head, and she smiles, she can totally relate to that. And it helps me build that connection of, okay, this person totally gets what I'm talking about, they totally understand where I'm coming from.

Gemma Toner  21:44

That is tremendous advice. And thank you for sharing that, with everyone that's listening, and especially for those in the API community that may really have a hard time taking that step. So that's, again, thank you. And, you know, I love hearing you say, No, finding a therapist, that was Asian, also just she just immediately gets you, you know, because that that connection is so important. How about how can we, as a white woman, you know, how can we be better allies? How can? How can all of us be more supportive of the AAPI community?

Brian Phan  22:33

I think this past year has really uncovered the fact that we as people need to have these deeper conversations. And I'm so glad that you invited me on this podcast, so that I can kind of just bring some initial education awareness to people of some of the struggles that API people deal with. And I know it's really hard in a work environment where you're dealing with deadlines and projects, and you kind of built this corporate repertoire with your peers, where it's like, happy Monday, how are you doing? How was your weekend, and then you kind of just move on from there, taking the opportunity to really, really, really, really get to know your teammates more than just like, what vacation you just go on, or what are your plans for the weekend like, but really get to know about like, their family, where they came from, have just coffee chats that aren't focused on work, is a great starting point. And I will be the first to say that not every individual is going to be receptive to this. There's just different cultural differences that are barriers to that. And so you also have to respect that at the same time, if you approach an Asian American colleague, and they're like, I'm not really comfortable talking to you about that at this time. Please respect that. Please don't probe in deeper. But if they opened the doorway to that, and they're receptive won't do that. Also be timely and truly respectful. Coming to that session with open ears, and listening mindset. Because the worst thing that can be done is going in there with some stereotypes of your understanding. That conversation should really be about you completely and fully listening to what they have to say about their experiences in their thoughts. Because it's an opportunity for you to learn more about them and also get a glimpse into the Asian American community and experience. And so that's my suggestion is to just be listening, err and be open to having those conversations and make sure that you creating a psychologically safe environment.

Gemma Toner  24:45

Well, well, I can honestly say listening to you, has certainly been an extraordinary lesson. And I am so grateful for you being here and for sharing and we will certainly have to have a fall Well, part two with you, Brian, to continue this conversation, you know, especially as we enter into the end of this year and next, and I've wanted to just ask you, you know, we've had this conversation at will, are there any specific resources that you could share that we can post so that we can make sure that it's easy for members of the API community to find some information and support? Yeah,

Brian Phan  25:36

from a data perspective, if you want to continue to understand how these incidents are happening and where they're occurring, I definitely encourage you to look at the stop API eight.org. website, it just informational data for you to understand what's going on. from an educational perspective, if you're Asian American, or you just want you to understand the Asian American Pacific Islander experience, a great documentary series, that's a five part series is on PBS, and it's just Asian Americans in America essentially. And that PBS documentary is free, and it goes over the history from immigrating to this country or back in like the 17 1800s to modern day. And it's a great resource for anyone to really watch, it's really educational lens well done. In addition to a good resource for you to get some clips of Asian American news is actually next shark. They are a media platform specific for Asian American stories, they report on both positive and negative things are going on in our communities. And it's run by a very small group of individuals. And they're really passionate about their work. And they've done a great job on reporting on the incidence of AAPI hate in the past year, but also highlighting and celebrating Asian experiences and accomplishments, especially in the recent summer Olympics, where we had a lot of representation of Asian Americans, actually for the US, and many of them winning medals. So it was really appropriate and great time for us to kind of highlight those individuals this year to

Gemma Toner  27:22

celebrate right. Yes, celebrate. Well, just to kind of wrap up on on our discussion. I have a question for you. That's kind of a wildcard which is where I'm what's the next conversation you would like to have?

Brian Phan  27:41

I like to speak about the Asian American experience. The next conversation I would like to have is kind of like a group consortium in which individuals from different backgrounds and experiences in the US kind of come collectively and talk about what are the things that we can do to help each other and create an environment that everyone belongs in, actually put some pen to paper on concrete actions we can do collectively. I think the AAPI community has done a lot to build resources for ourselves have been beneficial. And I think the next step is to really work with our representatives at the Congress level. And one of those Congress representatives is Congress representative Grace Mang, who represents the new sixth district, she has been pivotal for the ability of Asian Americans to be recognized on a federal level and have protections and so having conversations on like, what else can we do in a collective way? So make sure that everyone is getting similar types of protections? Because there are so many unprotected classes still here in the US? And how do we kind of do some grassroot organization and make some impact for change so that we have a better future?

Gemma Toner  29:08

Well, I want to be a part of that. And I hope all of our tone listeners do as well. So I just wanted to say again, thank you so much for being here. And we will have a part two, part three, Brian, of you have been an absolute tremendous guest and thank you for sharing all that you did with us. And just finally, I just wanted to make sure that our listeners know that we want to hear from you. Submit your ideas, your questions, you know, use the link below. This is here, because we want to hear what you want to talk about next and what you may not be comfortable asking or you may not be sure how to start that conversation. And just for all of us to remember that you have the power to set the tone of your life. Thanks, everyone. Visit tow networks.com for more content like this and stay tuned for next week's episode of have you had this conversation