#13 | MindBites | Men's Health Awareness Month! Mental Health & Creating Safe Spaces for Men

0:00:00 - Speaker 1

Three, two, one.

Welcome back to Mind Bites, our high value short form episodes where Joe and I will pack as much information for you guys to take back into your day to day lives.

The topic of conversation today is all about Men's Health Awareness Month and, more closely on our point of view, the mental health side of it. This is in June and obviously this is going to go out towards the end of June, start of July, but Joe and I think this is such an important topic to discuss about and first off, I just wanted to go into some facts and figures about the mental health side in men. Starting off with, men are three times more likely to die by suicide than women, and the contributing factors include things like societal stigma around mental health, reluctance to seek help and, in a way, traditional gender roles that sort of discourage, emotional vulnerability in men, which is massive and, joe, I wanted to start off talking about this, as we talked about this loads on WhatsApp and just over the phone as well and how important this month is. What underlying factors in your opinion, do you think contribute to the significantly higher suicide rates among men compared to women, just from your point of view as?

0:01:10 - Speaker 2

well, yeah, yeah, um, I think it's a really difficult one. I think, partly coming back to the, the women's side of things, and also I think it's closer to four or five more times more likely than is three. I think it's it's the the ratios are so ridiculously high now, um, and that's also not to say that we're not saying that women don't struggle. I just think we're highlighting the importance of why men struggle so much more. So, to answer your question, I think what you said there in relation to the gender roles, I think that's probably the most important thing in my opinion, because that's become really skewed with this sort of call it wokeism that's emerging and in terms of what is a man now like, we're not allowed to say it.

So the traditional roles that you and I might have grown up being attributed to in terms of what men and women are, and there wasn't a lot of gray area between that. Now young men are growing up without a real identity of what actually a man is. Therefore, the traditional gender roles are sort of skewed and there isn't such thing as them anymore. So I think young men in particular are very confused and also we're told from young women, from a young women's point of view is that there's sort of safety in numbers and you gather around your friends when they're feeling sad and they could talk about it, whereas men it's the stiff upper lip and showing sort of the um being brave and not, you know, showing your emotions, which again attributes to a young man who isn't able to show his emotions properly. So it probably comes down to those two things, but most importantly, what about yourself?

0:02:30 - Speaker 1

Yeah, I completely agree on that point. I think it's such a hard one. I know a lot of women who struggle, I know a lot of men who struggle and I think it is just having that comfortable, being comfortable enough to speak to the people around you. It's such a tough one because I think this myself. We talk about this on podcasts all the time, we talk about on here. But even though I talk about on here, I still really struggle to like go and talk about it with people close to me. Even though I'll say it on here and like I'll feel great, like saying it and like trying to help people when it comes to like a one-on-one conversation.

I still struggle, even though I know it helps me which I don't really understand why, or the science of behind it.

But so I can't. I can't help too much on that point, although I'm trying to be better, especially like speaking to my mom, speaking to my dad, being like, listen, I'm struggling here. Any advice? One thing I saw earlier as well. You said it could be more, four to five times. I think that's true, but I think a massive portion of the people that are committing suicide are people among the ages of 45 to 64.

And people actually over the age of 85 as well, which I think is absolutely mental. But it comes back to the point. If it's, a large portion of them are between 45 to 64. Do you think it comes from that generation of people who, you know, had that stiff upper lip like you just said before, people who aren't comfortable talking, but now a lot more of the younger generation people, our age people, younger than us, are more comfortable talking because they see it on social media and they they see people discussing it, who have gone through things.

Do you reckon that's a problem? Because I see it a lot with that old, we'll say older generation, where it's just it seems foreign to them to just discuss about it. It's just put your head down and get to work.

0:04:24 - Speaker 2

Yeah, I think that for me was a bit of a two-parter. I think that the main aim for me coming out and talking about my sort of mental health struggles and how much it's helped me to do that that's not to say that it was easy, it was. It was actually very it's the hardest thing ever done. Um, and I think the more that we can share videos like this and do our our podcast and the youtube videos and apple whatever else is that can really help not inspire people but help normalize the conversation. And whilst you said it's a very difficult thing, I mean not to sound condescending, but you're a hell of a lot younger than I am. So if I remember back to when I was 21 22 is I would that would have been an impossible thing for me to do. So the fact that you're 21, you can. You can think about that and you can actively have that conversation in your head about do I approach my mate for this or do I go to my mom or dad for that. It's not something that hasn't always been there.

So second part is the older generation. I think it's very difficult because the financial stress, the family stress, the, the changes in hormones and men and women as well. I think that's a really that's a huge, huge shift. Whereas young people I mean the weight in the world is on young people, but actually, in the grand scheme of things, once you get to the older years and the, the financial struggles and the, the weight literally of the world is on your shoulders in regards to finances and family, and these things can be so overwhelming that actually the numbers are staggering. In regards to, like you said earlier, in the people between I think you said 45 and 64, is is. The numbers are really really scary. So, yeah, to answer your question, I think yes, the generation before us and maybe before that.

0:05:51 - Speaker 1

In regards to not showing any emotion, if you're struggling with something, bury it, don't, don't think about it and it's the damage is um, is is obvious in the numbers you have a lot of things like having a midlife crisis and obviously you said then like family problems, financial problems that come with family, and also at that age especially, what shocks me is when it's an 85 plus is a big suicide rate. I reckon, just from my subjective point of view, a lot of that comes from loneliness and, you know, loss of loved ones. You know that feeling of loneliness is is something that even at my age now, that loneliness feeling is horrendous. I can't imagine what it would be like at 85 plus if you're. You know, one of your only friends left a lot. Your friendship group has passed away, your partner could have passed away.

0:06:36 - Speaker 2

It must be so tough, it must be, yeah, it must be horrendous, yeah, yeah I also think that, um, there's so much less funding availability available to people like that now, I think, with cuts in the nhs waiting lists, for everything is through the roof. Therefore, if you're above a certain age, you're almost forgotten about. I think. Naturally, they're putting more funding into young people, even though there's hardly any at the minute. The waiting lists, as we found out a couple of weeks ago with madison, I think that the waiting lists for anyone, um, struggling with something is just is actually is freakish also, with, with an aging population and an ever-growing population, people being forgotten about, so people are literally just left their own devices. Plus, the no funding nhs is completely overwhelmed.

Private practices are now becoming more popular. People can't afford it, so it's people are literally left on their own with nowhere to go and no one to talk to. Um, and, like I said, with the lack of funding, these helplines are again overwhelmed. Um, and it's really sad because people have no help and there's no one. There's not enough people to reach out to them. Um, which is why I guess we started this platform to help those who can't afford those prior practices, to get people on like dr mark rackley who are able to give their practical professional advice on the right things to do from a practical level at home all the way up to sort of a professional clinical sense as well, completely agree.

0:07:57 - Speaker 1

Just I'm going to read out some more facts here. And it says despite higher rates of severe outcomes, only 36% of psychological therapy referrals are for men. Over 30% of men feel embarrassed about discussing mental health issues and nearly 40 believe they should handle these problems on their own. What's your point of view on this? So what advice would you give to those that 40? Because I'd say I'm in the 30 where I do feel embarrassed talking about my mental health issues sometimes, but then other times I might. I want to share it because I want to help people but, I think there are certain bits which are just more embarrassing.

And it's just, it's personal to you, but it's funny because even though your head's like, oh, don't share it, the minute you do share it you realize no one judges you for it. Everyone actually kind of respects you for it, because you're not the person who's like crying wolf, you just really are struggling. That's what I try and remind myself a lot of the time. Is okay, it might be embarrassing to you, but everyone else will be worried about you and as minute you explain it, people understand and your life will become so much easier if that makes sense yeah, members, you're spot on.

0:09:05 - Speaker 2

I think one thing that really came to mind when you're talking about that is um, did you ever see that the paddy is a paddy pimblot, the the sort of ufc?

0:09:12 - Speaker 1

guy yeah, when.

0:09:14 - Speaker 2

A friend of his took his own life and he said I'd far rather my friend came to me and cried on my shoulder than me carry their coffin into the funeral. And I think if any of you, or anyone listening to this, struggled with something and you went to any one of your peers or friends and they made you feel worse as a result of that, they shouldn't be your friend in the first place. That's sort of. Number one is you should always feel a safe space to be able to be as open as honest as you can be with your friend, just like girls are. I'm not comparing guys to girls, because they are very different inherently and biologically. We're so different.

If you didn't feel you had that safe space with your friends to be able to ring them up, drop them a text and say, dude, can we meet for a coffee, go for a beer? Can we go for a walk? I've got something I want to get off my chest. I'm really struggling with something. If they aren't there for you, find someone else and probably ditch that friend if I, because I know things come up. People are busy in their own worlds and stuff, but it's really really, really difficult, particularly as guys, because we're inherently so embarrassed and so ashamed to talk about it. Um, and I think it's about creating a safe space amongst your friends to be able to have those conversations. Just like you have a very, very young age and again, I don't want to call you young, but in comparison to me you are so I think it's important that you set those things in place and those boundaries and you create a safe environment around you of guys and girls, by the way, but amongst your male friends.

If you're on a rugby team or a chess club, whatever, if you have friends there and you are struggling with something and you have common ground with them, that should be a safe space for you to be as open as possible and drop a message and say, like I've had things on my mind, I'm struggling with something. You know, can I just get it off my chest and talk to you about it? And nine times out of ten, that person will come back to you and one listen and be open, honest with their feedback back to you, and two chances are they're going to struggle as well, because the numbers are staggering in the sense that I mean most men well, I don't know the exact numbers most men in their life will go through something like anxiety or depression, or suicidal, like suicidal, like depression, or um, or thoughts, etc, um. And they'll come back to you and probably say me too, I've been through that as well, and that straight away makes you feel seen yeah, I think that's all people want, isn't it?

0:11:19 - Speaker 1

I think people just want to feel seen and heard, and I think that's such a powerful thing as well whether it's from a loved one, whether it's from a friend is, a lot of people just want to know that they're not alone and someone can see it and someone does care. And if they do care, anyone. What you said before about friends is if, if you have a friend who who's rude about it or isn't what you expected to be, anyone can find time for anyone if they truly care about them. You know everyone has half an hour in their day, an hour in their day. If they tell you they don't, they're a liar and you've got to find those right people. You've got to hang around them and the people that do care. You've got to look out for them like they look out for you. And that's how good friendships are and everything should be surrounded around that. You shouldn't feel stressed having to speak to someone if, if they are a so-called friend.

And the last thing I wanted to come into here, joe, obviously we talk about this again. We talk about this all the time. You guys listen to this, probably listen to this all the time, but it's about physical health, physical wellness. What is one thing or two things that you would recommend from your point of view for the men or women listening to this who want to get, in a way, feel better with their mental health through physical wellness and physical fitness? What would you recommend?

0:12:34 - Speaker 2

yeah, um, so I, I like you, are living proof that being involved with um I mean, we both have this is is going to the gym and being physically active in that sense, but also being part of a community. So I think for me is is going going to the gym. For me is what I do on my own, and if I go with a friend of mine, um, great, if not, that's absolutely fine. I do it for my own well-being, um, as well as physically, it helps me so much. But also being part of a for, like you, a rugby club, and that, for me, is a large part of my outlet in terms of unleashing a lot of the stress and strains that I carry through the week. I use that and also socially. I really struggle and I have done for most of my life. I really struggle in certain social environments and the rugby team or being a part of a rugby club and it hasn't got to be rugby, it could be anything any social environment that involves being physically active really helps to sort of create those bonds between you and like-minded people, whether it be men, women or whatever. That's really helped me and I think that being involved with rugby and being physically active in the gym.

Uh, running or walking has has most certainly saved my life because I can. On a less dramatic scale, I can tell you that and I know you're the same. When I'm injured or unwell and I can't move, I'm so much worse and I'm way worse to be around. So when I'm unwell or I've been injured in rugby and I can't play or I can't then go to the gym, that for me has a real detrimental impact on my mental wellbeing and I'm far harder to be around as a result of that. So that is in itself proof how much, how reliant I am on it. I know I have other things as well that sort of make me happy, like my sort of friends and family, but certainly I mean instrumental to my sort of rising up from when I was at my lowest has certainly been being physically active. And what about yourself?

0:14:23 - Speaker 1

Completely agree, completely agree that injury point is so true. So, true.

I just say obviously we talked about this before. There'll be men listening to this who are feeling lonely. There'll be men listening to this who are feeling lost.

My biggest thing in terms of physical fitness and it kind of we've talked about this before, but I think it's become more apparent to me is just being part of a community.

Whether it's a gym community, whether it's a run club, a walking club, you know, going on walks like dog walks with a friend, whatever it is. Having a community of people for me is at the moment, in my point, my position in life is probably the biggest thing is going down to March on where I gym, knowing it's not just a gym, knowing I can talk to people, knowing I have like-minded people there, and whether that's a gym, as I said, whether it's a swimming club. You know where I am in watford, there's this big run club and there's hundreds of people that go and they have food afterwards. I think getting out there talking to people, putting yourself in a position where if you are socially anxious, you might be a bit uncomfortable, but at the end of it you know how much better you're going to feel, is such a massive thing. And that whole emphasis, emphasis around community is just absolutely massive, in my opinion I.

0:15:39 - Speaker 2

I totally agree with you. I just want to just add on to what you said there about the gym environment, and that is something even I. If I go to a new gym, new gym, if I'm abroad or I start a new gym, it's a very intimidating thing and I've been doing it for 15 plus years and I do it professionally. Even I find intimidating. So for those that are new to the gym, walking into the gym for the first time is really scary thing and that can put people off, as, again, it hasn't got to be the gym. It could be a local bowls club, it could be tennis, it could be cricket, rugby.

Starting new is one when you first join the gym or any sports club or a walking group or running group. Like you said, everyone wants it was that once upon a time, their first day, and they'll always remember that. So don't be afraid to walk in and be judged, because if you do, it's not right for you. Try something else, and nine times out of 10, you'll be helped and you'll be guided. And don't be afraid to ask questions. Go in there and have a completely open mind about what's to expect and it's not for you. Try something else and um, you won't be disappointed is trying new things. Be experimental, being experimental. Don't waste time sitting around thinking what if just give things a go?

0:16:41 - Speaker 1

mate, completely agree, completely agree. Absolutely love that, mate