#21 | Part 3 Annalie Howling - Community Q&A! Embracing Failure, Managing Burnout, and Authentic Relationships

0:00:00 - Speaker 2

Relationships ask us for intimacy. Okay, relationships drive us for commitment. We want to know everything about the other person.

0:00:07 - Speaker 1

I think we're afraid that we're going to feel stuff and it's going to floor us, but more often than not, the next one's on leadership and this wasn't actually someone we knew, so I don't know if she came from your page news. I don't know if she came from your page, but she was saying leadership roles I struggle with, particularly because of my experience in history with trauma. What advice would you give to leaders in their field having a traumatic background?

0:00:36 - Speaker 2

so when I do um like senior, I work very senior like c-suite in corporate and executive and there there's. Usually I'm being very stereotypical, but generally speaking you get two different sort of groups of leaders that come to you for coaching, and they're either always technically great or you wouldn't be in the job. So you're either an absolute dick and no one likes you, but you make money.

So like they need to make them much more likable, because this is awful and no one can work with you, but you make money, otherwise you'd be out. Let's be frank you can't be awful and make no money because you wouldn't work there. So that's one type. Then the other type is someone who is technically fantastic and probably hasn't got the impact, and for leadership, we need people to invest in us, follow us, feel confidence in us.

But the most incredible leaders, the most impactful leaders, the people that had the biggest impact on my life, were not necessarily like the ones that you might not, goggins you know, I like the guy, I think he's amazing, but if I think about in my work, it were people that made it safe for me to fail Like I went to do, like I said. You know I do loads of work with the veterans and stuff and we were going to talk with it was one of the Gurkhas and they said like, and it was one of the guys that they taught them how to land a helicopter on Everest, right, how do you learn to do that?

0:02:02 - Speaker 1

Casual day out.

0:02:03 - Speaker 2

Yeah, like just average, like we do, say like landing on an ice, crevasse and red everywhere, and the point being like how do you learn to do that? And they said so. You've got like, obviously imagine your driving lessons.

You're in the driver. You know you're in the cockpit and you've got the instructor next to you and they let them fail safely because they said that when they go to land, if they're getting it wrong, obviously they can take dual controls. They'll take over. You won't do it again Because you remember what was happening last time, so you will not. You know you can feel it going this way if it's got too much movement or you know that wasn't a good place, like you'll know, and you will not go anywhere near it next time. They're like you allow someone to fail safely. So for me, with leadership, allow yourself to fail safely. If you've got a traumatic background, if you feel like you know you're um, don't enjoy public speaking very much like, do it in small groups. Find pockets of people to do it, get feedback from friends, say it, own it. This is not my forte. I used to work for an amazing business, huge company. The ceo would visibly shake when he spoke. He hated it. Everyone knew it. The company still. I think he's exited on.

I think he lives on his yacht somewhere like do not genuinely he would shake, but the once a year when he had to speak like don't for a second think that means that there's any impact on you and he was one of the nicest men I've ever known so, yeah, interesting drama.

0:03:24 - Speaker 1

This is just one of my questions. People see failure as a bad thing. Do you think failure, if you're not failing, you're stagnant, and if you are failing, you should see it as you're failing, but you're going to improve the next time you go and do something, like they said on the Gurkha point, if they let them fail minorly not majorly, but then they would have progressed. That would be in the back head. You could sort of take that into every aspect of your life, couldn't?

0:03:49 - Speaker 2

you? Yeah, completely. I mean I'm a bit deranged, so I'm I'm just really optimistic. I'm one of those people, I mean I'm borderline toxically positive, so but I'm just very optimistic.

0:04:00 - Speaker 1

It's like I said nothing can harm you like. Oh, and until it does.

0:04:06 - Speaker 2

But the way I like to look at it is uh, you either win or you learn, so we kind of don't fail. Obviously I'm using this as a reframe. Right, stuff happens. If someone right now might have bad exam results, be like but I did literally fail, what are you talking about? Okay, yeah, there's nothing we can do about it right now, though, right like we have to reset. So you either won. You either got the exam results you did, or the ones that you didn't. You have to learn, like what were the environmental factors that did not serve you in there? Like, what can you change for next time? What have you learned about yourself? Like the own relationships people are? Like I wasted three years of my life.

0:04:44 - Speaker 1

Did you learn or did you learn?

0:04:45 - Speaker 2

Yeah, what have you?

0:04:46 - Speaker 1

learned about yourself? What have you taken from it? What were?

0:04:48 - Speaker 2

the experiences that you had, what were the things that you can take forward that were good, because it probably wasn't completely shit. You know you wouldn't have been in it for that long. So you know what are the things that you can take forward from that. You know, maybe after a period of you know whatever we need to do to process it out, but there were clearly some bits we can take forward. And then from that, what have you learned about yourself? Because some of it's like actually do you know what that really suited me about that person? I liked those elements. Don't like that bit. That clearly isn't good for me in long-term relationship or I've changed. Take that forward.

0:05:18 - Speaker 1

Completely agree. Completely agree. Next one is about burnout. We're going to get through these quickly. What would be your advice on dealing with burnout? Straight and simple question.

0:05:31 - Speaker 2

Ask for help Because if you are burning out, burnout is a place that you are sent. That's what I want to say to people. So you are sent there, like it, because you haven't listened. You haven't listened.

0:05:43 - Speaker 1

And you know it.

0:05:43 - Speaker 2

Start using no's everywhere, everywhere you can. Strip the engine, get rid of everything you think you should in inverted commas be doing, because that sent you to burnout. You've been shoulding all over yourself, so literally no more shoulds. Get all the shoulds out. Strip the engine. Say no wherever you can. You've been sent there. You need to be. You can't rush it. You're going to need to like, rebuild, like I say strip the engine out.

Look at what you're putting back in. Be really strong with your nose to make sure you're protecting your yourself in that space. Ask for help awesome.

0:06:13 - Speaker 1

Can I say the next one as well? Go for it. Yeah, it's the exact same guy asked two questions. He said what advice would you give for imposter syndrome? As the one afterwards um blunt and straight to the point. I loved it. I love the question syndrome.

0:06:25 - Speaker 2

So in my view and this is again is sort of a developing hypothesis for the writing I'm doing your imposter syndrome in a critic, call it. What you want is like policing your shame, it's like a guard of your shame. Your shame is in. It's disgusting, it's like gross, it's creepy like. The last thing I want is for you guys to see my shame right now.

See my shame because you reject me because I'm so awful. So your inner critic is there. You know, like I said to you after the fawning be more perfect, be more perfect, people. Please be more perfect, be great, don't fail, don't let. Don't let anyone see anything that's not shiny and brilliant and perfect about you. So that's the imposter and use it again. Be curious. What is that imposter? Trying to protect you from the inner critic is a well-meaning friend that's got it wrong.

Imposter syndrome. Why do I feel I have to perform in this scenario? What is it? Is it me that I'm not comfortable with myself, so I feel like I can't be authentic? There's some stuff that I don't like about me, that I'm not comfortable with myself, so I feel like I can't be authentic? There's some stuff that I don't like about me that I need to change? Or is this an environment that I'm in, work, a relationship, friendship, where I'm feeling like I need to perform an act? So be really curious about that.

But your inner critic, the imposter, is trying to keep you safe. It's trying to stop you failing the only way. It knows how, and it is the custodian of your comfort zone. It will keep you there because the comfort zone is the known, ok. And the second you start pushing out of that, you're in a critic and the imposter has a field day. There's two good bits of info there. One is like look look at what's going on in your life, but if you're about to make a big change and say like, change your job, leave a relationship that you know has been really crappy or whatever, move somewhere and your imposter and your inner critic's really going off, it's because you're about to leave the comfort zone.

0:08:05 - Speaker 1

So sometimes it can be a bit of a compliment as well siobhan and I've just come back from the podcast show which we're out for the last few days and we said when we were there, we went there with massive imposter syndrome. For those of you who don't know, we have a full service podcast production company and it's when we went there I was just thinking, oh so out my depth. So when we came, came home after two days and we were both like we're not remotely out of our depth, but it was. It's very funny thing how you just you paint this picture in your head that you're so much worse at something than you actually are and then you go and you're like we're not, we're really good at this.

0:08:38 - Speaker 2

Like it's just very funny the inner critic also remember it's trying to be a good friend to you. So, like you guys are going and it kind of doesn't want you to feel let down because feeling let down is really sad, you know. So you guys are going and it's going to be like you've got hope and dreams yeah yeah, paved with gold. You're going to the podcast show and imagine who we might meet and what might happen to us yeah, and so your inner critic is trying to do this thing, where it's like, oh, don't be disappointed yeah

so it's like again, listen to that. It's that sort of uh, I call it like an overbearing aunt, you know it's a bit like that. So if you're and you can always tell if you're listening to the inner critic or imposter, should, that's how you know. Oh, tom, show around. You should be. You should be doing this. You should have done this six months earlier. You should have been better at that. You should have prepared more. You should have got there earlier. You should have. Or even, who do you think you are going to this show? Should, should, should.

0:09:29 - Speaker 1

Do you want to do the next question?

0:09:31 - Speaker 2

Yes, this is so good. I love this Q&A. We've never really done that before. You should always give me caffeine before.

0:09:39 - Speaker 1

What techniques would you suggest for staying calm and focused under pressure?

0:09:43 - Speaker 2

So again, you know we talked about earlier count, any kind of counting. There's so many things online but a breath count, I mean. My favourite is the physiological sigh, the short inhale, long inhale. Jamie Clements, yeah, jamie said that yeah, I mean Hoobman, after his multiple lady-pleasing. I think he started it years ago. Obviously, he didn't start it, but started talking about it.

But, anyone that's got a pet. You see them. You know when animals do their thing I'm looking at you because they've got puppy. They go round and round and round. They go to sleep and then they go. Have you seen that?

0:10:16 - Speaker 1

Yeah, you seen that, yeah that's that's they do.

0:10:17 - Speaker 2

It inherent babies do. That's like the uh, you know the physiological stuff. That's how they go to sleep. So that is the quickest way. If you do it like the short inhale, long inhale, exhale out your mouth three times, I mean I call it the pina colada zone, like someone could be in here trying to steal my car and I'd be like can't be bothered, have it, have everything. So, but and again, any kind of counting, because it's keeping your prefrontal cortex online. So you're beginning to feel anxious, you're beginning to feel overwhelmed. Heart rate's going, you know, whatever your response is, you know we're getting hot, people get red, whatever it might be, we're beginning to feel like we're out of control. We're here. So any kind of count like that, you know, one, two, three. My daughter was taught at school it's quite sweet inhale on the up, one, exhale on the down, inhale on, you know, of your hand. So it's like five.

0:11:07 - Speaker 1

So oh nice one, two, three.

0:11:09 - Speaker 2

We talked that, mind yeti. He was called king five. So yeah, counting any kind of any kind of count and, if you can, a great thing to do is start walking somewhere. If you can, because you are. Your eyes are laterally scanning the horizon when you're walking and that, again, is one thing. It's keeping your prefrontal cortex online.

0:11:28 - Speaker 1

You talked about that last time, didn't you say in arguments you should argue side by side instead of front on and back on If you need to have a different.

0:11:34 - Speaker 2

I don't think I said I advocate for arguments.

0:11:37 - Speaker 1

If you need to argue.

0:11:39 - Speaker 2

Yeah, conflict, skillful conflict. Yeah, ask my other half how skillful is she Going on a walk? Yeah, if you're doing so. A a difficult conversation, right, maybe even one that you're just a bit nervous about.

it's a really good we're nervous you know, like something that if you think about sitting face to face with somebody, you're looking in their eyes especially maybe, like I don't know, they might find it difficult subject as well, anything like that. It's hard for all of us, okay, to maintain eye contact, and it's difficult if you're walking side by side or have good chats in the car, or maybe you know when you's difficult if you're walking side by side or you have good chats in the car, or maybe you know when you're driving so you're side by side, so you still have the connection and closeness.

But both of your eyes are laterally scanning as you're walking, which is great, keeping your prefrontal cortex online so we're able to stay cognitive.

Yeah, I know this for the ladies can't be accused of being too emotional. So because we're all online right, all at the same time, and then also you're just, you're actively discharging stress because it's lovely, joe will tell us, we're moving our bodies. So through movement we're actively discharging stress, so you're really able to keep your entire, uh, physiological self, kind of that is one of the better conditions to do it. You know why do you have a difficult call on your pace?

0:12:52 - Speaker 1

Yeah, I do. Interesting, I never thought about that. I'm now picturing your partner being like next time you decide to go for a walk, he knows what's coming. He's like oh, I don't want to walk today, I'm not walking today. Oh yeah, exactly. What have I done?

0:13:06 - Speaker 2

Oh no.

0:13:08 - Speaker 1

I'll end on this. We asked you this six months ago. I just love to see if there's a new piece of advice or if anything's changed over the last six months. If you could give the viewers and listeners one piece of advice which you've learned through life, what piece of advice would that be to take home?

0:13:23 - Speaker 2

Ask for help quick, quickly or sooner sooner than you think Because, like I say, right now, I'm pulling something out of my system that I didn't dare tell a soul. I'm okay with it, but you know, I, I it also would have been really okay if I told any of my friends. So that is what I would say amazing, awesome, sweet, much, awesome, brother, sweet.

0:13:47 - Speaker 1

Thank you so much.