Christina Wodtke is an author, Stanford University professor, and speaker who teaches strategies for building high-performing teams. She’s also the author of Radical Focus, which some consider the de facto guide to OKRs.
Christina shares her expertise on crafting OKRs, how she uses them in her personal life, and common mistakes you should avoid when you sit down to write your own. She discusses effective goal setting and outlines a systematic approach to achieving key results. Finally, she gives some specific tips on how to improve your storytelling and explains why it’s smart to set ambitious goals.
You can also see the episode transcript and Christin’a references.
How Christina uses OKRs to manage her personal life ▶️
- Implement OKRs after stabilizing basic operations: Companies who do well with OKRs are those who already "have their shit together." This means that they have solid strategies in place, empowered teams, and a strong sense of psychological safety.
- View OKRs as a vitamin, not a medicine: OKRs are not a magic bullet that will fix all the problems in your organization. Rather, they work best when things are already going well and can be used as a 'vitamin' to boost and optimize your operations.
- Use OKRs to focus on what really matters: A company that used OKRs to make their employees be healthier led them to introduce robots to handle heavy lifting, reducing back problems for their workers.
- “So, the humans are doing much more complex tasks, thinking about inventory and how to be more efficient. And the robots are doing the heavy lifting.”
- Commit to the OKR process: Much like dieting advice, OKRs are simple in theory but challenging in practice. You have to "stay with it and be strong and committed."
The purpose of OKRs ▶️
- Use OKRs to encourage concrete actions: OKRs help turn your broader, potentially vague strategy into concrete actions that will push you closer to your objectives. Instead of abstract concepts, OKRs give you concrete targets to hit and steps to take, creating a "cadence of progress".
- Prioritize continual learning: OKRs aren't a one-and-done process. They form a "learning cycle" which builds upon each quarter's focus and experiences. This means your company will "constantly get smarter and more effective" as you learn from past quarters and continually optimize your focus and efforts.
- Avoid spreading too thin: Companies often try to do too many things at once. OKRs help you avoid the "peanut butter" problem - spreading your efforts too thin across too many areas. Use OKRs to determine "the big rock we're going to move. This is the big thing that's going to happen this quarter."
- Stay Focused on Your Immediate Tasks: The "atomic unit" of OKRs is answering the question: What am I doing this week to get closer to our strategic goals, our longer-term goals? By focusing on what needs to be done right now, you can prevent the endless cycle of "tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow".
- Reconnect with your mission: It's not enough to just set a mission - it's important to actively talk about it, reflect on it, and connect it to your weekly activities. As Christina puts it, "Make it real in the activities we take every week."
Mission, vision, roadmaps, and OKRs▶️
- Develop a finite mission: Think about what you'd like to accomplish over a span of five years. Say, if you're a game company, your mission could be something like "Bringing amazing games that delight our users and we're proud to ship into the world."
- Break down your strategy in quarters: This works great because a quarter is long enough to accomplish something meaningful but short enough to remember your objectives.
- Implement a half-built strategy: It gives you enough structure without tying you down too much, allowing you to respond to changes and opportunities.
- “Q1 is about figuring out what it is and what's going to be interesting to users. And then Q2 is going to be about getting some early prototypes out and validating those concepts. And Q3 is about building extensive, and Q4 is about marketing and throwing it out…”
- Define objectives and key results: This is where OKRs come in. Set an objective for each quarter. Then answer the critical question, "How do we know we've achieved it?" The answer to this question will determine your key results - these are your success indicators.
- Keep it flexible: Since you won't know exactly how the current quarter will turn out, don't go into too much detail with future OKRs. This flexibility lets you react and adapt to new information and changes.
How strategy ties in▶️
Your strategy is the "how" of fulfilling your mission. It’s the process of breaking down your company's ambitions into workable, realistic tasks that align with the broader goals of your business.
We're going to have a game. It's going to be an Apple Arcade. We have a hypothesis that's actually going to help us. We're going to build in there and build our customer base there in order to get name recognition, which we can then use on other platforms.
Why OKRs should be kept simple, and the ideal way to express key results▶️
- Keep it simple: Avoid overly complicated methodologies that may distract you from the actual goal you're trying to achieve. "Simple things give you a lot more room to fiddle."
- Keep key results to 3: The idea here is to create a sort of triangulation – one key result that's solidly rooted in numbers, another that's slightly less concrete and more qualitative, and finally, one that's tied to a financial metric.
The importance of customer satisfaction and why you need a qualitative researcher▶️
- Retention over immediate profit: Even if a product is making money, it doesn't necessarily mean that customers are delighted with it.
- …Zoom, for example. How many times have you heard Zoom get cussed out?…Would you like to keep making money? It's always about retention.
- Pay attention to qualitative research: You need somebody who knows how to separate what people say and what they do, and what the truth is in that.
- Delighted users help word of mouth: Happy users not only stick with your product but they also become advocates for your brand. “Happy users are willing to type an email telling you when you're messing up.”
Common mistakes people make when writing OKRs▶️
- Avoid vague objectives: Objectives in your OKRs should be clear, specific, and meaningful. "We're doing this because we want to see this happen." This ensures everyone on the team understands what success looks like and can work towards that shared vision.
- Inject motivation into objectives: Instead of dull, non-inspiring goals like "we're going to ship this thing," make your objectives bold and exciting.
- "Your objectives should make you go, 'Oh yeah, I'm changing the world today, or I'm doing something really cool.'"
- Don't confuse tasks with key results: While tasks may feel like necessary steps, key results should be the outcomes of those tasks that move you forward towards your objective.
An example of writing OKRs for an online magazine about interior design▶️
- Key results should be concrete and measurable: An OKR example from the perspective of an online magazine selling interior design ideas”
- Okay, so we have this online magazine, let's really work to get as many people being members rather than browsers as possible, so that we can start understanding what they like
- Don't be afraid to adjust your targets: Setting key results is often an educated guessing game, especially if you're venturing into uncharted territory. For example, "maybe 30% of our audience flips over, and maybe that's right, maybe that's wrong." If you're unsure, set a goal and assess its feasibility by the end of the quarter.
- Consistently measure your outcomes: To ensure your objectives are on track, set up consistent measurement points. For instance, using customer panels "at the end of every two weeks to hear how it's working and understand more about it."
- Brainstorm diverse ways to measure your outcomes: The brainstorming process should be thorough, and even if the ideas seem "weird" at first, they often lead to "really good insights." The objective is sort of a manifestation of the strategy at a one quarter level.
The importance of repetition▶️
- Keep your OKR meetings engaging: If your OKR meetings feel like a chore, rather than getting bogged down with long lists of tasks, focus on the larger picture. You can gauge this when
- "…you ask in the meeting, 'What are the top three initiatives that you're doing towards them?'"
- Maintain a strategic focus in meetings: CEOs and other decision-makers should not be micromanaging individual tasks. Instead, the focus should be on understanding if the strategy at both the company and departmental levels are effective.
- Regularly remind your team of the OKRs: Regularly revisiting your OKRs during meetings helps keep them at the forefront of everyone's mind, reinforcing the overall strategy and facilitating better decision-making.
- “…you're practicing retrieving what your OKRs are, and after a while they're just in that long-term memory and you don't have to struggle to think about them and you've got them.”
Why do OKRs go wrong?▶️
- OKRs can signal deeper issues within the organization: If your OKRs are not working as intended, they could be symptomatic of deeper issues in the organization. These could include a lack of trust in your team, poor hiring practices, or issues with psychological safety.
- Issues with OKRs could hint at leadership or group dynamics problems: If your entire company seems confused, it's an indication that you, as a leader, need to take a step back and reassess. There's an old joke that I think about a lot, which is, if during the day you meet one asshole, he's probably an asshole. But if all day long you meet nobody but assholes, you might be the asshole.
- Tools like Patrick Lencioni's 'Five Dysfunctions of a Team' can be helpful in diagnosing and addressing these issues.
Why you should start OKRs with your best multi-disciplinary team ▶️
- Rushed implementation is a common issue: This often happens when a company gets excited about the idea of OKRs, usually after reading John Doerr's "Measure What Matters", but doesn't fully understand the methodology or consider how it should be implemented in their unique context.
- Trial with a small, high-performing team first: By giving Christina's book to your best team and asking them to trial the methodology, you allow them to figure out how OKRs fit within your culture and where they might be helpful.
- That's how I tell people to start with OKRs. Just figure out your best multidisciplinary team team and say, "You guys start and let us know.”
The importance of storytelling and drawing (even badly!) ▶️
Storytelling and drawing are two fundamentally human ways of communication. When facts are embedded within stories, people tend to remember them better as opposed to standalone facts.
Similarly, drawing, even when done badly, can help in visualizing abstract concepts and creating a shared vision.
- Seek Feedback: After telling a story, ask someone you trust for feedback on how you could have made the story better.
- “You're going to find out, do I just blather on forever, or do I not give enough details? I mean, if you're only going to do one thing, get feedback, is always the answer.”
- Minto Method:
“The Minto approach is start with the answer. Here's what we're going to do and here's why, and here's all the work I did to get there.”
- Sharing the outcome first makes people curious about the journey to that outcome.
- Intriguing the audience with a mystery, a secret, or a surprise can also pique their interest and make them want to know more.
The cadence of OKRs and the importance of celebrations ▶️
- Mondays: Plan for the week. Look at what you want to do to push forward your key results. This could be shared via email to your boss, team, or accountability group, or discussed during a standup meeting.
- Fridays: Celebrate your achievements. Share the most awesome things that happened during the week. Celebrations can help boost morale and make people feel like they're part of something special.
- Weekly status emails: This is a chance to reflect on what was done the previous week and what will be done the next week. It provides an opportunity to identify any blockers that may have prevented you from completing your tasks.
- Planning your OKRs: Ideally, this should be done at the end of each quarter or the second last week of the quarter. The aim is to spend as little time as possible on planning, as time spent planning is time not spent shipping.
- Approval process: Instead of having your OKRs approved by your boss, you could have them reviewed by three teams that work closely with you.
This rhythm of planning, execution, reflection, and celebration can be a key part of maintaining momentum and learning throughout the OKR process.
A different kind of approval process to get OKRs done more efficiently ▶️
OKRs should ideally be visible throughout the entire company to promote transparency and shared understanding of strategic directions. Share updates weekly to the entire company and include:
- Confidence level in hitting the OKRs
- What was done last week
- What will be done next week
For large organizations like Airbnb or Google, the process might seem more complex due to top-level strategies and interdependencies between teams. However, even in such cases, it's crucial to limit the time and number of people involved in approval processes. A rule of thumb is that a well set key result should make you feel somewhat uncomfortable but not doomed. An achievement rate of around 70% could be considered successful.
- You're like, "Woo, that's kind of good, that's going to be tricky. Okay, let's go for it." That's about where I like to land with a key result.
Why you should set ambitious goals ▶️
- Embrace Ambitious Goals: Ambitious goals can be a powerful motivator. "You'll never know what you're capable of unless you try to do something that you're not sure you can do."
- Explore all possible measurements, even the Fuzzy Ones: When dealing with key results, explore different ways to measure success, even for qualitative or subjective metrics like "quality" or "delight." While some metrics are easy to measure, such as revenue or daily active users, understanding customer satisfaction or product liking requires more nuanced approaches.
- For a company to truly succeed and potentially become "the next Netflix or Amazon," it needs to delve deeper than the obvious metrics. “So, you really got to say, 'How will we know about our product and what are the approaches are out there and which one makes sense for us?'"
Where to start ▶️
- Start your OKR journey with research and a pilot project: This could involve reading a book or exploring blog posts. After gathering a solid understanding, run a small pilot: "Just run a tiny pilot and say, 'Okay, what does this mean for us?' You don't even have to call them OKRs. You can just try, 'We're going to do an outcome focus this quarter and let's see where it takes us.'"
- Engage an expert: If you feel overwhelmed with the implementation process, get an expert to coach you through it. "I think that finding someone to coach you is really high value, but [...] I would ask for references."
- Start with a high-performing team: This is because "they're smart, they're capable, and if anybody's going to figure out how to make it work, they will." Attempting to fix a poor-performing team with OKRs may result in negativity towards the method and worsen the situation.
The overemphasis of UX in product management education and the importance of business sense ▶️
Product managers need strong business acumen.
"They need to understand business models, they need to understand how to do a target market, and what is a target market, why is that target market the right one to go after, and how is it going to grow, and what are the trends that are going on that's going to change the business?"
Product sense is rooted in experience, not intuition: She argues that "product sense is intuition, intuition is compressed experience, compressed experience comes from having lots of experience." Especially for younger product managers with less experience, it's more valuable to focus on learning models that work and why they work rather than relying heavily on intuition.
Advice for people seeking a career in product management ▶️
Start in a different role before becoming a product manager: By working as a designer or engineer, individuals can gain valuable insights into the business that can later help them in a product management role. Also, you can learn about various aspects of the business by working in a smaller company where one can "poke into the corners."
Product management requires strong interpersonal skills.
Because if you can't fire someone, if you can't tell somebody their behavior is interfering with the ability to get things done, don't be a product manager. If you can't solve the fight between two of your coworkers, don't be a product manager. If you can't go out and talk to somebody in a Starbucks line and say, "Hey, we're working on this new thing, what do you think?" Don't be a product manager. You got to have hustle. You got to talk to people.
Product management isn't for everyone: For some, focusing on design or engineering can be more rewarding, as these roles often have a clear focus and the ability to clock out at a regular time. In contrast, product management often involves coordinating among different teams and stakeholders, with a need to constantly have an eye on the bottom line.
Lightning round ▶️
- Favourite book: The Fearless Organization
- Favourite question to ask during interviews:
- Wodtke's go-to interview question is, "What question should I have asked you?" This question helps her gain more personal and in-depth insights into the interviewee because, as she put it, "the person is an expert in themselves.”
- Collaborative workspaces to promote innovation: She loves having cross-disciplinary teams sit together in a shared space to facilitate idea exchange.
- Favourite tools: She uses Zoom, Slack, and the Google Suite for their functionalities and the free resources they offer to students.
- Pause and Reflect Before Action: Slow down, do thorough research, and think before embarking on new endeavors. By taking a pause to understand the situation fully, teams can potentially achieve their objectives more effectively and efficiently.
For those who want to learn more from Christina, she suggests visiting her blog at eleganthack. She also has several books available for purchase, including "Radical Focus”, "The Team That Managed Itself," and "Pencil Me In".
This is a human edited summary of the podcast episode with Christina, by Gaurav Chandrashekar (@cggaurav, productscale.xyz). To listen to the full episode, go here.
